December 12, 2024 • 33 mins
The government's plan for new Interislander ferries doesn't seem to be much of a plan at all - with no new ships or details on what they'll cost. Has the government dropped the ball?
Also, fuel company Waitomo and other independent service station owners say BNZ has told them there'll be no more loans and all outstanding debt must be paid by 2030 - a policy of the BNZ to meet their net zero targets. But BNZ says the decision is simply one of risk. Is it fair for BNZ to de-bank these customers?
To answer those questions, Green MP and transport spokesperson Julie Anne Genter and Iron Duke Partners managing director Phil O'Reilly joined Nick Mills for Friday Faceoff.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B dissecting the week sublime and ridiculous.
Friday faceoff with Quinovic Property Management a better rental experience
for all Call oh eight hundred Quinovic. Thursday starts by.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Joining us to Friday face off. This week is wrong
Attie MP and Green Party Transport spokesperson spokeswoman Julie and
Jina Morning Morning spokesperson or spokeswoman.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
What do you like, we say, spokesperson. Fine, you know,
say what you want?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Okay, so what I want? Glad you started that way.
And I'm Duke Partner's managing director, Phil O'Reilly, Good morning.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Phil, They are good, thank you. Oh exactly a beautiful day.
Lampton Key was buzzing yesterday. It's just great. You have
to to get out of the waves like the old days.
It was just great, wanting to bounce them off.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Funny you should say that because the last two nights
I've been working quite late, well seven or eight o'clock
at night, and I've been wandering around in Courtney Place
and it feels like the old days. Restaurants are fall,
the bars are fall, people are smiling, laughing long mate, continue,
life is good.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Wellington is a wonderful city.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
There you go. Let's start with the fairies. The government's
plan for the new inter Island Fairies doesn't seem to
be much of a plan at all, with no new ships,
no details on what they'll cost, nothing, nothing, nothing, nada nada.
Phil O'Riley, I'm going to start with you as the
government dropped the ball here.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh they're certainly a part of not there. I should
just disclose. I do want to work with q ARE,
but of course QUIRA is not actually behind the ferries.
This this independent procurement entity or purchase them eventually. Clearly
they haven't landed it as a coalition. They've now they've
all got different views about it. David Seymour wanted to
have a private option and that's why I have a
Toyord Corrol option, as the Ministerry of find it said,
and Peters some sort of catnap about Winston. He just
(01:59):
always goes back to rail, doesn't he rude throughout his career.
So clearly what they've done as they've said, well Winston,
you short it out and he's got three months to
do that. And I you know, the data is all
on the table here and it's been well known for
quite a while what the options are. So I suspect
you'll come up with something and claim victory and we'll
move on. But dear, clearly it was a bit of
an untidy end for the government for the year because
(02:19):
they couldn't land this issue and they haven't landed it
all year, and they still haven't landed it despite the
conversations that have gone on.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Clearly, yeah, Judy, And yesterday I said on the show
that I felt what had happened is that Nicola Willis
brought to the cabin and a deal with a couple
of fairies and a couple of non rail compatibile, a
couple of deals here and there, and Winston said no,
and said, give me the opportunity to make them quite
rail compatible, because that's what he wants. And he's taken
(02:46):
taken the job off Nicola. Do you reckon? I'm right.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I can't say, but I do know that what Nicola
Willis got very very bad advice and it was extremely
ill advised to cancel that contract for the two fairies
from Hyundai, which were probably the deal of the century
for New Zealand. Now, admittedly there was some work to
do to rein in the costs on the on the
(03:10):
port side, that's fine, but all these other major civil
projects have been blowing out as well. You don't see
them canceling roads for being four times what they thought
they were going to cost. So I think the issue
here is that she did not realize how vitally important
it is to have a rail enabled ship to connect
our rail network and on North Island to the rail
network in the South Island. Even if the majority of
(03:32):
freight isn't on rail, the freight that is on rail
is vitally important because it takes thousands of trucks off
the roads and it reduces freight costs, as the main
freight managing director said. So I think, I think, thank god,
Winston's going to try and save a rail enabled ferry,
but the whole debacle from Nikola Willis is going to
(03:52):
cost the country a billion dollars with nothing to show
for it in the interim.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Phil I mean, the rail thing is really important to
a lot of people because it stops the trucks stop,
you know, it stops the accidents, it stops the deaths
it stops a lot of things, makes it cheaper. Why
would do you think that they were even looking the
Coalition were even looking at doing it without rail compatibility.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Well, a couple of reasons, I think. One is that
they're cheaper. Second is that you can actually upfload the
containers and put them on special purpose vehicles and put
them on the ship. So it can be done. It
just slows the slows things down and cost a little bit,
but it's you can't be done in the long run.
Say that there's there's some debate about just how much
of my cost and how how is it going to be,
(04:34):
but it is possible. But to your point, I agree
with Julian on this rail actually really matters to us.
This is a country because it takes that stuff that's
not particularly time limited where it goes to a port,
and a lot of our a lot of our exports
are exactly like that. They are you know, logs and
milk and so on, and steel and so on, which
isn't particular, it's not it doesn't need to be there
this hour. It can be there for a ship sailing
(04:54):
on Tuesday. And it takes a heck a lot of
cars off the raid and in fact, I would say
this because you do work. But they're now upgrading their fleet.
They're going to have much more on time and much
more offish and carbon fuel efficient and climate efficient to
rolling stock and engines and so on. So I actually
think KRO's got a good story yead of it, not
a bad story. And we just need to resolve this
(05:16):
theory issue one way or the other. I've got no
particular view about rail enabled or not, but we just
need to solve it and move on. The good news
is also Qros said the existing theories can operate till
twenty twenty nine, which is good. They'll be pretty old
by them, but that's all good stuff. So I just
think we need to solve this. And this is a
it's a great illustration of the challenge of putting politicians
into these very detailed issues of infrastructure. You know, I
(05:38):
didn't get landed under Grant Robertson, It's not been landed
on Nikola Willis. They're going to try and get some
independent people to sort it out, and they need to
need to get a decision to move on, even if
it's not the optimal one.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Right Culy any your thoughts on that because for me,
rail is just imperative. It's just got to be. It's
a roll on, roll off scenario. Get it moving cheaply, efficiently,
saves lives. There's no eff butts or maybes on this.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah. Again, I do think that the Minister of Finance
really got some bad advice from Church who weren't looking
at it from a transport perspective. I mean they were
looking at it from a se perspective, not really understands.
It's bizarre to me though, because we've got government ministers
and MPs insisting that Qbirail needs to be more efficient,
(06:21):
and yet they like the rail enabled fairies and all
the work on the on the port side infrastructure was
going to enable qb rail to be more efficient. So
they've sort of hamstrung Kibirail and now we're going to
have several years where people are genuinely concerned about the fairies,
you know, because of the incidents both with Blue Bridge
and the oratary. They're concerned. I think if we were,
(06:46):
it would have been ideal if we were getting those
new fairies and those projects hadn't been canceled, we hadn't
lost all the jobs, all the sunk cost. So I mean,
I just can't. I don't want to dwell on the
mistakes of the past, but I do think people need to,
like Nikola Willis has to take accountability for the irresponsible
and reckless decision that was made last year.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I want to talk about quarterly plans. Instantpedis has hit
out at its quarterly has cut out at quarterly action pans,
calling them dashboard crap whatever that means, potentially forgetting that
his bosses uses them to track the minister's performance. Full
of Riley Is Winston's hitting out. Here's what's he trying
to get out?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Well, I think he spoke poorly and then he says,
oh the labor talking about the last labor government. Of
course they had no more too. But of course they're
just a management tool. These quarterly plans, these hundred day plans.
They're very common in the private sector and that's why
the Prime Minister is using them. In my own experience
there mixed. Actually, sometimes quarterly plan is a good thing
to focus you the challenges. Though if you're not careful,
(07:41):
the quarterly plan becomes everything about what you do, and
you only do what the quarterly plans is. So you
always need to have a bit of flexure in these
quarterly plans to say you do need to achieve that,
and there's some other strategic things you need to achieve
and it's over to the Prime Minister to describe whether
or not that's happening or not. But it was an
interesting it was an interesting split out and it just
demonstrated to me everyone needs to go on holiday. I
reckon it's you know, it's been a long year and
(08:03):
you're starting to see some of that play out.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It says to me that there's kind of the coalition too.
I think the inter Island fairy thing, this thing seems
to be David Seymour going out on his own.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
I mean, so you're mentioning those ones that's having over
the last couple of days. In fact, you look at
how they operate, they've actually operated pretty well over the
last while. Because I think neck we're tired. We know,
because you don't think it is a bit of that
you're never going to be perfect at it because they've
got this published set of coalition agreements, including all of
the activity about what they will do if there's a
disagreement and so on. Ashuely, I think that's been quite
good discipline. And when you see them operate, they're operating
(08:35):
across a coalition agreement and at the same time both
New zum On First and Act they're trying to reach
out to see to their own people look at us.
We're still relevant, you know, because you know Julianna and
the Greens found this out. You need to keep up
your own brand a bit right. You need to disagree occasionally,
So there's always going to be a bit tricky all that,
and guys in the media always dive into it. If
it happens much more over the next year, I'll be
a bit more concerned about it. But at the moment,
(08:56):
it's the end of Christmas. We should go on holder
that move on.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Do you find that? I mean, are you watching there
from the other side of the fence, But are the
coalition getting a bit scrappy? Is it near the end
of the year that it's been a tough year, been
a hard year. They need a break.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
We've seen the clearest division over the inter Island or
Ferry in the last few days where Winston Peters has
said he only found out about the announcement three hours
before it happened. David Seymour and Winston are completely contradicting
each other. I do you know, Look, it is always
going to be tricky. I mean, my concern with the
coalition government is more with the harm their policies are
(09:30):
causing to the country and the medium and long term.
What harms well more children in poverty than would otherwise
be the case, more carbon emissions. I mean, the thing
with the quarterly reports is I believe in using evidence
and key performance indicators. The problem is that I don't
think the government is actually going to deliver on a
(09:50):
bunch of the things that they've promised. They want better
economic productivity, but most of the decisions they've made are
going to lead us in the opposite direction. They want
fewer they say they want fewer children in poverty. They
say they want to reduce emissions, but actually all the
actions they're taking are leading us in the opp s direction.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Didn't that happen with the last government as well? I mean,
I mean it.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Wasn't in the last sitting holding hands would do a
lot better, and that hence hence why I continue to
campaign for the Green Party. But I do think they
were doing a much better job. They were going more
in the right direction on both reducing emissions, on reducing
child poverty. And actually the economy was doing much better
(10:34):
under labor than it is now. I mean, I think
the audiority the austerity policies have made things much much worse.
I saw a graph of OECD country's GDP growth rates
in New Zealand was dead last, and that's after a
year of this coalition government.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Well, let's great politics and looking forward to Christmas, because
that's a politician having to go, and we could have
a National Party politician you're having to go and I'm
not a politician, so I'm not going to ever go.
I can tell you that the business community is feeling
as though some good things are happening, but they need
to be faster at them. I mean, the Fast Right
legislation has taken a year. Hardly fast trake is it,
And I'm sure Juliane and I will agree that should
(11:08):
only ever be a temporary measure. What I am noticing
in my business and around the place is that overseas
investors are looking afresh at New Zealand. I am starting
to see that it's taken a while, because it takes
a while to get them to get this corporate I'm
trying to get on back and have a look. You know,
it's the New Zealand's over for business. So they say, well,
what do you mean by that? So we are now
starting to see some more of that interest. So I
think the message that the business community would give the
(11:30):
government is on the economic development stuff. Pace is important
because New Zealand needs to be able to present a
credible alternative to the rest of the world, which is
just offering protectionism and industry policy and subsidies and god
knows what. So that's like I think the message for
them to take away of Christmas and think about for
the new year.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Do you think that positivity is just and it's real quick?
So I've got to go to an ad breakthrough. Do
you think that positivity is just about Christmas and the
sunshines here or is it real?
Speaker 4 (11:53):
It's in interest rate drops are coming and you're also
seeing things like the National Infrastructure Agency being set up
and someone so you are actually now seeing some building
blocks of it, but its pace is now necessarily keep
that momentum going into the new year.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
You feel that it might be just summer and we're
all getting a bit better because we can go and
get some bured.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Oh really, I believe in the resilience of our people.
I do think government is failing to lead on the
issues that are most important for us in the long term,
and I don't think they deserve their brand of economic credibility.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
You know, a new report based on wastewater testing this
out this week is revealed meth and cocaine usage is
roughly doubled in this quarter compared to a year ago doubled.
Julia and gener why do you think there's been such
an increase in drug use in just twelve months in
New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Well, I mean, I can't say for sure, but I
would suspect the you know, economic circumstances. Often when things
are going poorly economically actually weirdly, substance use and abuse
might go up. And I like, I've been advocating my
whole political career for a harm reduction approach to drugs,
(12:57):
and of course the current government is taking a very
like criminal punishment approach, and I just don't think it's
not going to work. It's never worked. We know it
doesn't work. War on drugs failed. We've got to take
a harm reduction.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Approach, which is education.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
It's education support. You know, people are much more susceptible
to addiction when then they don't have secure housing, when
they don't have secure income. So I think, you know,
making it illegal and trying to police it doesn't help
people deal with the problem. You've got to make it
safe for people to seek help and support them to
get the help they need.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Philer Riley, Well, some of it's just some's just business
in a sense that the criminal gangs are becoming much
more effective at bringing it in. It's an addictive substance
and so if you're already addicted, then you can have
more of it. And they know that meeting the market
in terms of price as well. So all that you know,
the logistics of the business know that are getting more efficient.
So there's a role for customs and the police to
be working with others to try and stop it coming
(13:52):
in at the border. But I actually agree with Juliana
and this, and I've taken this view for quite a
while now. That's all the stuff about criminalizing it. It
just drives it underground.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
And I've always an expense puts the price up in
which it creates more crime.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
It doesn't and I think you support the people who've
got the addiction and they're actually not the criminal. Those
people they're they're usually often and terrible circumstances and they're
the victims of all this, and we have a bad
dabit to putting them in jail, and don't we don't
get some mission these day, but we still criminalize it.
So I'm issue Juliana on this. If you could ever
make it work, and there's the tricky bit, you never
make it work. I think a harm reduction decriminalization attitude
(14:24):
is the right thing to do, and then really hammer
down on the crime gangs who are still attempting to
push this at kids and the vulnerable. And I've seen
some kids get into the grip of all this, including
some kids in my neighborhood, good kids, and I think, gee,
that's a terrible outcome. So I'm actually a fan of
what Julian advocates.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And the other thing that I want to bring up
with you, because you you know, you're a big time
business associate to as you've got a lot of contacts
in the business, is the is the white collar druggie?
Well yeah, I mean that's a big market, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yeah, no, that's right, and you're seeing and I don't
think it's as bad here as it is in some
other countries, maybe the US and so on, but it's
certainly the case, and you'll see a bit of that
going on. I must say, they do it secretly. I've
seen it. I've never been at a party where it's happened.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
But you must been at parties when you've seen people
disappear and then come back, you know. I mean it's
out there. I mean cocaine used to be for the
very very rich and the very very well connected in
New Zealand. Now it's right across the board. So you're
going to have people in business, high flyers. I looked
at what was that a Wasn't that a function? But
I saw a group of people leaving a function last
(15:29):
night at seven o'clock at night, and they were all
wide and they're all big businessmen and flash suits that
were wide. You can tell their jaws were going. You
could tell that they were on something other there.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
This is just a business issue. What we're already saying
is that that's in other words, people who are better off. Maybe,
if not not all business people are better off either
by the way, yeah, the idea that all sectors of
society are exposed to this. This isn't just a poor
young Maram pacific mannish you're talk. This is actually a
wider issue in our society, including the wealthy, the middle class,
those on salaries, those running businesses, and those who are
(16:00):
those who are otherwise so wealthy, including you know, you know,
partners and some one who might be at home. So
this is an issue for society to work out. And
that's why I don't think this criminalization approach works because inevitably,
as soon as you do that, the people are going
to get caught, the young mari man actually, as it
turns out, and they're going to be overly criminalized and
overly blamed for what is actually a larger societal issue because.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
They're doing the runners, they get doing the delivery and
getting caught.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Or they're just not as good as they're going to
get caught for something else and all of a sudden
there's drugs on them and off they go, you know.
So it's not an equitable outcome criminalizing it either.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Right, I want to know whether I can go for
a break or go for another topic. So I go
for another topic. All right too, Wellington hospitality workers were
sexually assaulted by Vietnamese government officials last year. I think
we've got to be careful how we present this. But
the police that did say they would lay charges. The
men are no longer in New Zealand and cannot be extradited.
(16:56):
Julian Genter. Should the government work with the Vietnamese to
get these men sent to New Zealand and face these charges.
I mean, this is pretty horrific in my industry.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yeah, I read the story and I was really horrified
and really felt for the young women involved. And I
think vitally, most importantly, government has to provide access to
the services of support for those survivors of attacks like that.
And happily I can say that the Greens got a
change from acc which makes it easier for survivors of
(17:27):
sexual and domestic abuse to access counseling and support and
the things they need. Obviously, the situation never should have happened,
and I think we're in a difficult situation with the
extradition lack of extradition treaty with Vietnam. But also I
guess you know, the Greens have this whole harm reduction approach.
So I'm not sure. I mean, I'm sure the survivors
(17:48):
would like to see them face charges or be well
they but ultimately it's about, you know, preventing and addressing
the harm so that it doesn't keep happening, and that
that's the focus I think government needs to have.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Phil O'Riley. We need to educate these young people working
in hospitality too, that alcohol can be very dangerous in
the wrong hands and the wrong use, the wrong way,
and everybody's got to be more alert to it.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Yeah, I think that's right, or I don't. I don't
want in any way by answering that question to blame
the young women. They were No.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I was the opposite of what I'm saying. That we
need to help them, you know, so that they know
that the situation they're getting into.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
And I think is that I don't know anything about
the restaurant owner, and I don't want to also him
in any him or here in any way. But yeah,
you're right, I mean, there are systems and approaches that
everybody should be using in situations like that to make
sure that you minimize the potential that anybody is put
in harm's way and I'm a dually out on this.
The number one thing we should all do here is
just make sure that the young women who were the
(18:51):
victims of this this attack or the ledge attack are
looked after. And if we can raise it diplomatically with
the Vietnamese, we should definitely do so. Even if they're
going to refuse to do anything, I think that should
be raised and I'm sure it will be raised.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yes. And once again, you know, there's people here that
have done things that they should not have done, but
that we've got to learn that there is parts of
alcohol that are very, very dangerous and we've got to
teach our young people that to consume alcohol could get
you in a dangerous situation. Now, I'm not blaming them
(19:27):
one iota, and I am blaming alcohol, you know. And
that's and that's something that we probably need to concentrate
more on. Fuel Company Why Timo. Oh, we're Friday face
off by the way, and we have Julian Genta and
Philoiley in the studio. If you've just joined US fuel Company, Timo,
Why Timo and other independent service stations say B and
(19:48):
Z has told them there will be no more loans
and all outstanding debt must be repaid by twenty and thirty,
a policy that B and Z said that to meet
their net zero targets. But BE and Z then turn
around and said the decision is simply want to risk
follow Riley. Is it fair for BE and Z to
debank the customers? I mean it's not very fair, is it.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Well, if they've they've d banked three people in the
last couple weeks, Gloria of ail, sex toys and petrol stations,
that's good debail bunch of they did alstead of the
sex toys. I hope they don't redo the glory of
old one anyway. But this is a This is where
banks get into trouble, where they sign up to these
things which are all about making themselves look good to
their shareholders and say out, we're doing the right thing here,
(20:30):
aren't we good? And actually they they make them make
silly decisions about d banking for the wrong reasons. And
you see the Benz now saying well it's a credit decision. Well,
if it is a credit decision, why are you d
banking all of them? You see Westpac come out so well,
we're de banking them. If we do, we might have
a risk based post to bresh on this and it'll
be petrol station by petrol station by petrol station. That's
(20:51):
the right option because actually, when you look at what's
happening with cars by twenty thirty, you see a lot
more cars at evs. Those that remain will be hybrids
and much more fuel efficient. Especially from a business perspective,
it's much more likely that some of these smaller rural
service they will struggle to survive just in business terms.
That's nothing about signing up to some international agreement that
(21:11):
makes you feel good. That's actually about business, and I
think if the benz It sticks to that, they'll be
on safe ground where they've got themselves in trouble. It's
this mixed message. Are we signing up to some sort
of feel good document or are we actually taking a
credit decision that's where they've got themselves in trouble.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Julie Engender what impact could this possibly have on rural
communities that rely on these small independent service stations. I mean,
I know that you're not going to be too concerned
about it, because you don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I'm very concerned, and I mean this has been my
concern as a lot you know, since before I was
in politics, and it's hard to get through, you know,
in a few sound bites or whatever. But like what
we've been talking about since the nineties is the need
to transition away from fossil fuels. There's just nowhere around it.
This is reality. We're already starting to see the devastating
(21:59):
impacts of increased storms, droughts, floods, severe weather events affecting
our likelihoods. And so it's not it's not like it's
just not about feeling good. It's about confronting reality and
the reality is we need to transition away. And so
that's the point where we would say the Greens need
we need government leadership, we need support, we need a plan.
(22:21):
We need to be investing in alternative infrastructure. We need
support for electric vehicles so people can access them. We
need investment in the electric charging network. We need investment
in alternative forms of transport, you know, and that can
be rail, that can be electric buses. But like you know,
it's not just someone's opinion, and it's not about feeling good.
It's about all of us working together to survive and
(22:44):
ensure we don't have climate chaos because we can't thrive
and survive and do well if we don't stop fossil
fuel use.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Was the bank right, I mean you've given your political lab.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well I do.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
I think that's not political like, that's just that's climate reality.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Well, it's you, it's you, it's your case.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
That's the climate reality. It's not just an opinion. And
I have to say the people who have made out
that this is just an opinion and there's two sides
to the story are denying.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I was not trying to get into that. I just
want to know the banking the banking side, well, I
do you agree with the bank?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Banks have the right to do to make the decisions
that they want to make about what they're going to
invest in, and that's.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Well, how would you feel of the banks turned around
and said that phil O'Reilly was going to open a
chain of EV filling stations route throughout New Zealand and
it needs one hundred million from the banks, and the
bank says, no, we don't actually want to be involved
in doing that. How would you feel then?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Well, I so here's here's the thing is that it's
not just like I like EV's I don't like fossil fuels.
Fossil fuels are an existential threat to the future of humanity,
and it's taken decades for people to realize that and
take action on it, whether they're banks or governments or
any other based on the right thing, because the fossil
fuel lobby deliberately tried to obfuscate and deny the reality.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
So do you think the bank's done the right thing?
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I think the banks are going to do what banks
are going to do. I agree with what philis said.
There are serious risk issues. This is reality. The earlier
we work together to help support communities through this transition,
and that's what the clean card discount was about. That's
what government policy was about. The better off New Zealand's.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I just still want to know whether you think BE
and ZI have done the right thing.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Like as I said, I agree with Phil.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
No, I just want to say yes or no. Do
you think they've done the right thing?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I think that they have the right to make decisions
about what they're going to invest in, and I think
they need to apply a consistent changing.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Your bank account to BE and Z because they're doing it.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
No. No, I bank with Kiwibank. I'm a supporter of
the government owned bank. Hopefully it will stay publicly owned.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
The good news is hopefully, I'm pretty confident others will
bank these guys. And we should also know, of course,
when you turn up to one of these places, as
I do from time to time because I really love driving,
and so I will get out and about around the
rural areas when you do turn up. Actually they are
community hubs, and that needs to be taken into account.
They're not just selling fuel. In fact, they're not even
mainly selling fuel. They're selling all sorts of other stuff,
milk and eggs and god and fixing trucks, cars, traffics
(25:08):
and farm and stuff and sign your pie if you're
on the road, that sort of stuff. So Theeshu community hubs,
we just need to think about them in that way.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
An article this week question where the school prize givings
are more harmful than good for school students, suggesting students
can work for the reward rather than their own self gratification.
Julian and Genta, what do you think you've got kids
probably at school, were about to be at school.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yeah, well primary school. But yeah, I was actually at
the wrong Attaire prize giving, Wrong Attai College prize giving
last night and I went to Wellington Girls East a
couple of weeks ago. I look, you know, I do
see the point of like, we want children and young
people to learn to do stuff for the enjoyment of it,
I think, than the being fulfilled by it. But I
(25:48):
also saw it at those prize givings, just so much
school spirit and I was really impressed at the support
from the students for their peers who were winning awards.
It just seemed like such a positive environment. It didn't
seem competitive. So I was really impressed at what I
saw at both those two.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
What do you think you're wrong with? Thai College?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Oh, rock Attach College was great. Yeah, Rongetach College and
Wellington Girls East both wonderful schools in my electorate well
East is on the border, but yeah, I was just
so impressed by the camaraderie and the support.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Right Pillow Riley, you had been one of those guys,
I would have been sitting in the back of the
of the hall watching you go up and get your
prizes every day. You would have been that guy that
was top of the class and I'd be saying something
that sounds a bit like banker, but it's wasn't bancre
and I'd be jealous as hell that you'd go out
and your parents would give you a hug, and I'd
go and hop in the backseat of my parents care
and go home with no prizes.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
As she's whistling, but I was head boy, yeah mate,
but twice twice and both made to media and secret Recioal,
why do you, Jason just taken that off my CV? Actually?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Have you?
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Of course not?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Is ITV still?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
I don't use the CVV days, I don't need one.
But no, you're right. But she to add on to
Julian's point, I've talked to two people in the last week,
including one of very senior sort of ambassador here in
the city, who have have had kids who have got
a prize, and for each of those parents was a
very special thing because the kids had had striven for
(27:14):
these prizes and had changed things around in their lives
and compared and so on, and that was just a
huge amount of pride for the parents and a great
success for them to see what had gone on. So
it wasn't just about agree with what Julian says about
the students, but it's also the parents and all that
sort of stuff. Now, of course, if the toxics, if
the school is a toxic sort of place, and if
it's over competitive and it's about womens and losers and
this was the course of prize giving, is just just
(27:36):
going to double down or all that behavior. But if
you've got the culture of the school, right, I think
prize givings are a great thing because they do and
I'm okay, if if there is a bit of competition,
you know, I do actually do a bit better than
you because I think, you know, life's a bit like that,
and and I don't you know, I don't think we
should say we should never compete, we should never be
have a person who's first, because that's just the way
(27:57):
the wood is. But I think that's sort of toxic
nature of it. To say I'm the winner, you're a loser. Well,
that's a bad idea, and I hope no schools do that.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Ok My favorite part last night was the year thirteen
livers doing an incredibly impressive hukker to the whole group,
and then all the other boys standing up and doing
an incredibly impressive hucker back. It was so so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
It'shuckers at high schools are amazing. Yeah, they're amazing, especially
at Pride giving. Yeah. Okay, Wellington City Council made nearly
ten thousand dollars in just one day. This is good.
That'll get my rates down in your rates down film
and maybe your write down during the end from two
new permanent bus lane cameras ten kay a day. It's
a good little business to have, is it, phill O'Reilly?
Is this reasonable or just read the revenue gathering? What
(28:40):
are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 4 (28:41):
They've got it. Well, it is a revenue together, of course,
But if you're going to create a bus lane, of
course you want to keep cars out of it. But
in my experience, and I drive that to that road
that was being talked about right outside of Wellington Hospital,
I drive that in taxis and cars and so on
quite a lot, and even walk it, I see very
few cars actually drive down the bus lane. So I
think Wellington City Council has got to be They're confined
all they like, but I think that to keep public support,
(29:03):
because they already got the bus lanes and cycle lanes
and sold already pretty controver, I think they've got to
create a bit of public support about design. For example,
is the will I find out that most of these
fines are happening because people into the bus lane a
bit before they're supposed to. If that's the case, then
I think really Welling City Council should really think about
the design of the bus lane to make sure that
traffic's gonna flow, and.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
They should put a sign up when you can turn lift.
I go on Cambridge here is to turn into here,
and I don't know when I can turn when, so
I always leave it to the last monthent. It's just a case,
and you're agreeing with me, are you agreeing with I.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Think information is important. And remember when I was Associate
Minister of Transport, I like promoted a policy if speed
cameras not raising revenue because the ideally you want people
to drive the safe and appropriate speed. It's the same
with the bus lane. Like ideally no one's using the
bus lane at the wrong time, so the many many
thousands of people taking the bus can get through on
(29:52):
the bus lane. So the point of these things is
not to raise revenue. And there's an easy way to
avoid paying the fine, which is I'll drive in the
bus lane. But you're right, I mean the information needs
to be there. It needs to be clear so that
people aren't making so it can be confusing. I love
that the bike and bustlinge on Adelaide Road and Riddeford
Street course. She used that all the time. It's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
And also if you want to do business up there,
but you know well, will agree to disagree on an
e bike.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I can tell you great, great way to save money,
great way to enjoy being outside and.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
This lost I've lost enough of money and EV's I
don't need a n ee bike as well, Thank you
very much. I would take a short break and be
back with hots and knots with Julia and Genta and
her hots will be me buying what I called.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
You and I were going to go for a ride.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Weren't we You wanted to go for a ride. There
was nothing to do with me. Where does we come
into it with you?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You were interested, I was interested.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
If you go pust the pub and see me.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
The Friday fat.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Okay, Julian and gender are you going first? Because I
can't control you. I can control Phil. Give us your
hots and.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Not speak not hot is despite you know obviously the announcement,
the non announcement about fairies but I've been in Parliament
under urgency all week so we've been there from like
eight in the morning till midnight. The last few nights
I got to get away for the prize giving, but yeah,
very late nights. That's not great ramming through legislation that
I think is mostly harmful to New Zealand. And then
(31:23):
what is hot? This beautiful, glorious weather here in Ponaqueer Wellington,
get out. I've been at the I've managed to make
it to the beach last weekend with my kids down
on the south coast, Princess Bay, my favorite. It's yeah,
it's a wonderful time to be in Wellington and enjoy
living in this coastal community.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Thank you, fill O Riley. What are your hots and nots?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
I'll start with them. I'll start with the not so
I can finish with the hot. Not is in New
Zealand and the airport's this busy time of the year
in New Zealand just seems to be won by fly
them a lot. They just seem to have got back
in the bad habit of being late and not running flights.
And then the airport, of course, you saw the outage
at walk on the airport, big day for the airports.
So this is the very time that you want airlines
and airports to shine, and right now I don't think
(32:03):
they are. So they've They've got a lot of work
to sort it out up.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Why have they slipped quickly? Why have they slipped so much?
Because we're getting a lot on the show that they
have slipped.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Yeah, they actually went through in news and with through
apaiter of being late all the time and then they
were on time. Well, good for them, and they've slipped
back of it and it'll be something inside the corporate
that will have got them back into that thing. They
just need to focus on it and get back on time. Frankly.
The hot though, is what I think will be annound
in the next few days, and that is that Liam
Lawson's going to run the Red Bull car. You think
he's got an expertap I think he has And there's
(32:31):
that All the media rumors are out there right now,
so I don't think you've done enough. That's what happens,
and if it does, that'll be one of the hots
of the year for me. I'm looking forward to. I'll
be at the Melbourne Grand Prix looking forward to seeing
him I'm a tragic and that sort of stuff, and
so just great to have a cure. That's a massive
story as the pinnacle of one of the biggest sports
in the world. It's it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Why do we not celebrate McLaren enough.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Well, because they've decided they're not a New zeal team.
They've decided they know.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
But I'm saying when he what he did, because you
know that. I mean, if you were to talk about
you know, that's just a credible that's right.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
And and we've had a long history of He's got
Denny Hall and Chriss am On and you know over
Bruce McLaren and so on. So we've had a huge,
uge number of things.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I do have to cut you off now because I've
got to go to a tride. But we could have
an argument, we could have a discussion about celebration about that.
But you're right, if Leed Lawson does make it, it'll
be an amazing, amazing achievement for a keiwek seven minutes
to twelve. Thank you both very much. I won't see
you before Christmas. They both have a very very merry Christmas.
Thank you for being regulars on the show and appreciate
having you on and hope you and your families both
(33:28):
have wonderful, safe Christmases. Follow Riley and Julianne Genta.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B dissecting the week sublime and ridiculous.
Friday faceoff with Quinovic Property Management a better rental experience
for all Call oh eight hundred Quinovic. Thursday starts by.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Joining us to Friday face off. This week is wrong
Attie MP and Green Party Transport spokesperson spokeswoman Julie and
Jina Morning Morning spokesperson or spokeswoman.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
What do you like, we say, spokesperson. Fine, you know,
say what you want?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Okay, so what I want? Glad you started that way.
And I'm Duke Partner's managing director, Phil O'Reilly, Good morning.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Phil, They are good, thank you. Oh exactly a beautiful day.
Lampton Key was buzzing yesterday. It's just great. You have
to to get out of the waves like the old days.
It was just great, wanting to bounce them off.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Funny you should say that because the last two nights
I've been working quite late, well seven or eight o'clock
at night, and I've been wandering around in Courtney Place
and it feels like the old days. Restaurants are fall,
the bars are fall, people are smiling, laughing long mate, continue,
life is good.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Wellington is a wonderful city.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
There you go. Let's start with the fairies. The government's
plan for the new inter Island Fairies doesn't seem to
be much of a plan at all, with no new ships,
no details on what they'll cost, nothing, nothing, nothing, nada nada.
Phil O'Riley, I'm going to start with you as the
government dropped the ball here.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh they're certainly a part of not there. I should
just disclose. I do want to work with q ARE,
but of course QUIRA is not actually behind the ferries.
This this independent procurement entity or purchase them eventually. Clearly
they haven't landed it as a coalition. They've now they've
all got different views about it. David Seymour wanted to
have a private option and that's why I have a
Toyord Corrol option, as the Ministerry of find it said,
and Peters some sort of catnap about Winston. He just
(01:59):
always goes back to rail, doesn't he rude throughout his career.
So clearly what they've done as they've said, well Winston,
you short it out and he's got three months to
do that. And I you know, the data is all
on the table here and it's been well known for
quite a while what the options are. So I suspect
you'll come up with something and claim victory and we'll
move on. But dear, clearly it was a bit of
an untidy end for the government for the year because
(02:19):
they couldn't land this issue and they haven't landed it
all year, and they still haven't landed it despite the
conversations that have gone on.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Clearly, yeah, Judy, And yesterday I said on the show
that I felt what had happened is that Nicola Willis
brought to the cabin and a deal with a couple
of fairies and a couple of non rail compatibile, a
couple of deals here and there, and Winston said no,
and said, give me the opportunity to make them quite
rail compatible, because that's what he wants. And he's taken
(02:46):
taken the job off Nicola. Do you reckon? I'm right.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I can't say, but I do know that what Nicola
Willis got very very bad advice and it was extremely
ill advised to cancel that contract for the two fairies
from Hyundai, which were probably the deal of the century
for New Zealand. Now, admittedly there was some work to
do to rein in the costs on the on the
(03:10):
port side, that's fine, but all these other major civil
projects have been blowing out as well. You don't see
them canceling roads for being four times what they thought
they were going to cost. So I think the issue
here is that she did not realize how vitally important
it is to have a rail enabled ship to connect
our rail network and on North Island to the rail
network in the South Island. Even if the majority of
(03:32):
freight isn't on rail, the freight that is on rail
is vitally important because it takes thousands of trucks off
the roads and it reduces freight costs, as the main
freight managing director said. So I think, I think, thank god,
Winston's going to try and save a rail enabled ferry,
but the whole debacle from Nikola Willis is going to
(03:52):
cost the country a billion dollars with nothing to show
for it in the interim.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Phil I mean, the rail thing is really important to
a lot of people because it stops the trucks stop,
you know, it stops the accidents, it stops the deaths
it stops a lot of things, makes it cheaper. Why
would do you think that they were even looking the
Coalition were even looking at doing it without rail compatibility.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Well, a couple of reasons, I think. One is that
they're cheaper. Second is that you can actually upfload the
containers and put them on special purpose vehicles and put
them on the ship. So it can be done. It
just slows the slows things down and cost a little bit,
but it's you can't be done in the long run.
Say that there's there's some debate about just how much
of my cost and how how is it going to be,
(04:34):
but it is possible. But to your point, I agree
with Julian on this rail actually really matters to us.
This is a country because it takes that stuff that's
not particularly time limited where it goes to a port,
and a lot of our a lot of our exports
are exactly like that. They are you know, logs and
milk and so on, and steel and so on, which
isn't particular, it's not it doesn't need to be there
this hour. It can be there for a ship sailing
(04:54):
on Tuesday. And it takes a heck a lot of
cars off the raid and in fact, I would say
this because you do work. But they're now upgrading their fleet.
They're going to have much more on time and much
more offish and carbon fuel efficient and climate efficient to
rolling stock and engines and so on. So I actually
think KRO's got a good story yead of it, not
a bad story. And we just need to resolve this
(05:16):
theory issue one way or the other. I've got no
particular view about rail enabled or not, but we just
need to solve it and move on. The good news
is also Qros said the existing theories can operate till
twenty twenty nine, which is good. They'll be pretty old
by them, but that's all good stuff. So I just
think we need to solve this. And this is a
it's a great illustration of the challenge of putting politicians
into these very detailed issues of infrastructure. You know, I
(05:38):
didn't get landed under Grant Robertson, It's not been landed
on Nikola Willis. They're going to try and get some
independent people to sort it out, and they need to
need to get a decision to move on, even if
it's not the optimal one.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Right Culy any your thoughts on that because for me,
rail is just imperative. It's just got to be. It's
a roll on, roll off scenario. Get it moving cheaply, efficiently,
saves lives. There's no eff butts or maybes on this.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah. Again, I do think that the Minister of Finance
really got some bad advice from Church who weren't looking
at it from a transport perspective. I mean they were
looking at it from a se perspective, not really understands.
It's bizarre to me though, because we've got government ministers
and MPs insisting that Qbirail needs to be more efficient,
(06:21):
and yet they like the rail enabled fairies and all
the work on the on the port side infrastructure was
going to enable qb rail to be more efficient. So
they've sort of hamstrung Kibirail and now we're going to
have several years where people are genuinely concerned about the fairies,
you know, because of the incidents both with Blue Bridge
and the oratary. They're concerned. I think if we were,
(06:46):
it would have been ideal if we were getting those
new fairies and those projects hadn't been canceled, we hadn't
lost all the jobs, all the sunk cost. So I mean,
I just can't. I don't want to dwell on the
mistakes of the past, but I do think people need to,
like Nikola Willis has to take accountability for the irresponsible
and reckless decision that was made last year.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I want to talk about quarterly plans. Instantpedis has hit
out at its quarterly has cut out at quarterly action pans,
calling them dashboard crap whatever that means, potentially forgetting that
his bosses uses them to track the minister's performance. Full
of Riley Is Winston's hitting out. Here's what's he trying
to get out?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Well, I think he spoke poorly and then he says,
oh the labor talking about the last labor government. Of
course they had no more too. But of course they're
just a management tool. These quarterly plans, these hundred day plans.
They're very common in the private sector and that's why
the Prime Minister is using them. In my own experience
there mixed. Actually, sometimes quarterly plan is a good thing
to focus you the challenges. Though if you're not careful,
(07:41):
the quarterly plan becomes everything about what you do, and
you only do what the quarterly plans is. So you
always need to have a bit of flexure in these
quarterly plans to say you do need to achieve that,
and there's some other strategic things you need to achieve
and it's over to the Prime Minister to describe whether
or not that's happening or not. But it was an
interesting it was an interesting split out and it just
demonstrated to me everyone needs to go on holiday. I
reckon it's you know, it's been a long year and
(08:03):
you're starting to see some of that play out.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It says to me that there's kind of the coalition too.
I think the inter Island fairy thing, this thing seems
to be David Seymour going out on his own.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
I mean, so you're mentioning those ones that's having over
the last couple of days. In fact, you look at
how they operate, they've actually operated pretty well over the
last while. Because I think neck we're tired. We know,
because you don't think it is a bit of that
you're never going to be perfect at it because they've
got this published set of coalition agreements, including all of
the activity about what they will do if there's a
disagreement and so on. Ashuely, I think that's been quite
good discipline. And when you see them operate, they're operating
(08:35):
across a coalition agreement and at the same time both
New zum On First and Act they're trying to reach
out to see to their own people look at us.
We're still relevant, you know, because you know Julianna and
the Greens found this out. You need to keep up
your own brand a bit right. You need to disagree occasionally,
So there's always going to be a bit tricky all that,
and guys in the media always dive into it. If
it happens much more over the next year, I'll be
a bit more concerned about it. But at the moment,
(08:56):
it's the end of Christmas. We should go on holder
that move on.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Do you find that? I mean, are you watching there
from the other side of the fence, But are the
coalition getting a bit scrappy? Is it near the end
of the year that it's been a tough year, been
a hard year. They need a break.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
We've seen the clearest division over the inter Island or
Ferry in the last few days where Winston Peters has
said he only found out about the announcement three hours
before it happened. David Seymour and Winston are completely contradicting
each other. I do you know, Look, it is always
going to be tricky. I mean, my concern with the
coalition government is more with the harm their policies are
(09:30):
causing to the country and the medium and long term.
What harms well more children in poverty than would otherwise
be the case, more carbon emissions. I mean, the thing
with the quarterly reports is I believe in using evidence
and key performance indicators. The problem is that I don't
think the government is actually going to deliver on a
(09:50):
bunch of the things that they've promised. They want better
economic productivity, but most of the decisions they've made are
going to lead us in the opposite direction. They want
fewer they say they want fewer children in poverty. They
say they want to reduce emissions, but actually all the
actions they're taking are leading us in the opp s direction.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Didn't that happen with the last government as well? I mean,
I mean it.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Wasn't in the last sitting holding hands would do a
lot better, and that hence hence why I continue to
campaign for the Green Party. But I do think they
were doing a much better job. They were going more
in the right direction on both reducing emissions, on reducing
child poverty. And actually the economy was doing much better
(10:34):
under labor than it is now. I mean, I think
the audiority the austerity policies have made things much much worse.
I saw a graph of OECD country's GDP growth rates
in New Zealand was dead last, and that's after a
year of this coalition government.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Well, let's great politics and looking forward to Christmas, because
that's a politician having to go, and we could have
a National Party politician you're having to go and I'm
not a politician, so I'm not going to ever go.
I can tell you that the business community is feeling
as though some good things are happening, but they need
to be faster at them. I mean, the Fast Right
legislation has taken a year. Hardly fast trake is it,
And I'm sure Juliane and I will agree that should
(11:08):
only ever be a temporary measure. What I am noticing
in my business and around the place is that overseas
investors are looking afresh at New Zealand. I am starting
to see that it's taken a while, because it takes
a while to get them to get this corporate I'm
trying to get on back and have a look. You know,
it's the New Zealand's over for business. So they say, well,
what do you mean by that? So we are now
starting to see some more of that interest. So I
think the message that the business community would give the
(11:30):
government is on the economic development stuff. Pace is important
because New Zealand needs to be able to present a
credible alternative to the rest of the world, which is
just offering protectionism and industry policy and subsidies and god
knows what. So that's like I think the message for
them to take away of Christmas and think about for
the new year.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Do you think that positivity is just and it's real quick?
So I've got to go to an ad breakthrough. Do
you think that positivity is just about Christmas and the
sunshines here or is it real?
Speaker 4 (11:53):
It's in interest rate drops are coming and you're also
seeing things like the National Infrastructure Agency being set up
and someone so you are actually now seeing some building
blocks of it, but its pace is now necessarily keep
that momentum going into the new year.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
You feel that it might be just summer and we're
all getting a bit better because we can go and
get some bured.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Oh really, I believe in the resilience of our people.
I do think government is failing to lead on the
issues that are most important for us in the long term,
and I don't think they deserve their brand of economic credibility.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
You know, a new report based on wastewater testing this
out this week is revealed meth and cocaine usage is
roughly doubled in this quarter compared to a year ago doubled.
Julia and gener why do you think there's been such
an increase in drug use in just twelve months in
New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Well, I mean, I can't say for sure, but I
would suspect the you know, economic circumstances. Often when things
are going poorly economically actually weirdly, substance use and abuse
might go up. And I like, I've been advocating my
whole political career for a harm reduction approach to drugs,
(12:57):
and of course the current government is taking a very
like criminal punishment approach, and I just don't think it's
not going to work. It's never worked. We know it
doesn't work. War on drugs failed. We've got to take
a harm reduction.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Approach, which is education.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
It's education support. You know, people are much more susceptible
to addiction when then they don't have secure housing, when
they don't have secure income. So I think, you know,
making it illegal and trying to police it doesn't help
people deal with the problem. You've got to make it
safe for people to seek help and support them to
get the help they need.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Philer Riley, Well, some of it's just some's just business
in a sense that the criminal gangs are becoming much
more effective at bringing it in. It's an addictive substance
and so if you're already addicted, then you can have
more of it. And they know that meeting the market
in terms of price as well. So all that you know,
the logistics of the business know that are getting more efficient.
So there's a role for customs and the police to
be working with others to try and stop it coming
(13:52):
in at the border. But I actually agree with Juliana
and this, and I've taken this view for quite a
while now. That's all the stuff about criminalizing it. It
just drives it underground.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
And I've always an expense puts the price up in
which it creates more crime.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
It doesn't and I think you support the people who've
got the addiction and they're actually not the criminal. Those
people they're they're usually often and terrible circumstances and they're
the victims of all this, and we have a bad
dabit to putting them in jail, and don't we don't
get some mission these day, but we still criminalize it.
So I'm issue Juliana on this. If you could ever
make it work, and there's the tricky bit, you never
make it work. I think a harm reduction decriminalization attitude
(14:24):
is the right thing to do, and then really hammer
down on the crime gangs who are still attempting to
push this at kids and the vulnerable. And I've seen
some kids get into the grip of all this, including
some kids in my neighborhood, good kids, and I think, gee,
that's a terrible outcome. So I'm actually a fan of
what Julian advocates.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And the other thing that I want to bring up
with you, because you you know, you're a big time
business associate to as you've got a lot of contacts
in the business, is the is the white collar druggie?
Well yeah, I mean that's a big market, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yeah, no, that's right, and you're seeing and I don't
think it's as bad here as it is in some
other countries, maybe the US and so on, but it's
certainly the case, and you'll see a bit of that
going on. I must say, they do it secretly. I've
seen it. I've never been at a party where it's happened.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
But you must been at parties when you've seen people
disappear and then come back, you know. I mean it's
out there. I mean cocaine used to be for the
very very rich and the very very well connected in
New Zealand. Now it's right across the board. So you're
going to have people in business, high flyers. I looked
at what was that a Wasn't that a function? But
I saw a group of people leaving a function last
(15:29):
night at seven o'clock at night, and they were all
wide and they're all big businessmen and flash suits that
were wide. You can tell their jaws were going. You
could tell that they were on something other there.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
This is just a business issue. What we're already saying
is that that's in other words, people who are better off. Maybe,
if not not all business people are better off either
by the way, yeah, the idea that all sectors of
society are exposed to this. This isn't just a poor
young Maram pacific mannish you're talk. This is actually a
wider issue in our society, including the wealthy, the middle class,
those on salaries, those running businesses, and those who are
(16:00):
those who are otherwise so wealthy, including you know, you know,
partners and some one who might be at home. So
this is an issue for society to work out. And
that's why I don't think this criminalization approach works because inevitably,
as soon as you do that, the people are going
to get caught, the young mari man actually, as it
turns out, and they're going to be overly criminalized and
overly blamed for what is actually a larger societal issue because.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
They're doing the runners, they get doing the delivery and
getting caught.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Or they're just not as good as they're going to
get caught for something else and all of a sudden
there's drugs on them and off they go, you know.
So it's not an equitable outcome criminalizing it either.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Right, I want to know whether I can go for
a break or go for another topic. So I go
for another topic. All right too, Wellington hospitality workers were
sexually assaulted by Vietnamese government officials last year. I think
we've got to be careful how we present this. But
the police that did say they would lay charges. The
men are no longer in New Zealand and cannot be extradited.
(16:56):
Julian Genter. Should the government work with the Vietnamese to
get these men sent to New Zealand and face these charges.
I mean, this is pretty horrific in my industry.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yeah, I read the story and I was really horrified
and really felt for the young women involved. And I
think vitally, most importantly, government has to provide access to
the services of support for those survivors of attacks like that.
And happily I can say that the Greens got a
change from acc which makes it easier for survivors of
(17:27):
sexual and domestic abuse to access counseling and support and
the things they need. Obviously, the situation never should have happened,
and I think we're in a difficult situation with the
extradition lack of extradition treaty with Vietnam. But also I
guess you know, the Greens have this whole harm reduction approach.
So I'm not sure. I mean, I'm sure the survivors
(17:48):
would like to see them face charges or be well
they but ultimately it's about, you know, preventing and addressing
the harm so that it doesn't keep happening, and that
that's the focus I think government needs to have.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Phil O'Riley. We need to educate these young people working
in hospitality too, that alcohol can be very dangerous in
the wrong hands and the wrong use, the wrong way,
and everybody's got to be more alert to it.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Yeah, I think that's right, or I don't. I don't
want in any way by answering that question to blame
the young women. They were No.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I was the opposite of what I'm saying. That we
need to help them, you know, so that they know
that the situation they're getting into.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
And I think is that I don't know anything about
the restaurant owner, and I don't want to also him
in any him or here in any way. But yeah,
you're right, I mean, there are systems and approaches that
everybody should be using in situations like that to make
sure that you minimize the potential that anybody is put
in harm's way and I'm a dually out on this.
The number one thing we should all do here is
just make sure that the young women who were the
(18:51):
victims of this this attack or the ledge attack are
looked after. And if we can raise it diplomatically with
the Vietnamese, we should definitely do so. Even if they're
going to refuse to do anything, I think that should
be raised and I'm sure it will be raised.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yes. And once again, you know, there's people here that
have done things that they should not have done, but
that we've got to learn that there is parts of
alcohol that are very, very dangerous and we've got to
teach our young people that to consume alcohol could get
you in a dangerous situation. Now, I'm not blaming them
(19:27):
one iota, and I am blaming alcohol, you know. And
that's and that's something that we probably need to concentrate
more on. Fuel Company Why Timo. Oh, we're Friday face
off by the way, and we have Julian Genta and
Philoiley in the studio. If you've just joined US fuel Company, Timo,
Why Timo and other independent service stations say B and
(19:48):
Z has told them there will be no more loans
and all outstanding debt must be repaid by twenty and thirty,
a policy that B and Z said that to meet
their net zero targets. But BE and Z then turn
around and said the decision is simply want to risk
follow Riley. Is it fair for BE and Z to
debank the customers? I mean it's not very fair, is it.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Well, if they've they've d banked three people in the
last couple weeks, Gloria of ail, sex toys and petrol stations,
that's good debail bunch of they did alstead of the
sex toys. I hope they don't redo the glory of
old one anyway. But this is a This is where
banks get into trouble, where they sign up to these
things which are all about making themselves look good to
their shareholders and say out, we're doing the right thing here,
(20:30):
aren't we good? And actually they they make them make
silly decisions about d banking for the wrong reasons. And
you see the Benz now saying well it's a credit decision. Well,
if it is a credit decision, why are you d
banking all of them? You see Westpac come out so well,
we're de banking them. If we do, we might have
a risk based post to bresh on this and it'll
be petrol station by petrol station by petrol station. That's
(20:51):
the right option because actually, when you look at what's
happening with cars by twenty thirty, you see a lot
more cars at evs. Those that remain will be hybrids
and much more fuel efficient. Especially from a business perspective,
it's much more likely that some of these smaller rural
service they will struggle to survive just in business terms.
That's nothing about signing up to some international agreement that
(21:11):
makes you feel good. That's actually about business, and I
think if the benz It sticks to that, they'll be
on safe ground where they've got themselves in trouble. It's
this mixed message. Are we signing up to some sort
of feel good document or are we actually taking a
credit decision that's where they've got themselves in trouble.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Julie Engender what impact could this possibly have on rural
communities that rely on these small independent service stations. I mean,
I know that you're not going to be too concerned
about it, because you don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I'm very concerned, and I mean this has been my
concern as a lot you know, since before I was
in politics, and it's hard to get through, you know,
in a few sound bites or whatever. But like what
we've been talking about since the nineties is the need
to transition away from fossil fuels. There's just nowhere around it.
This is reality. We're already starting to see the devastating
(21:59):
impacts of increased storms, droughts, floods, severe weather events affecting
our likelihoods. And so it's not it's not like it's
just not about feeling good. It's about confronting reality and
the reality is we need to transition away. And so
that's the point where we would say the Greens need
we need government leadership, we need support, we need a plan.
(22:21):
We need to be investing in alternative infrastructure. We need
support for electric vehicles so people can access them. We
need investment in the electric charging network. We need investment
in alternative forms of transport, you know, and that can
be rail, that can be electric buses. But like you know,
it's not just someone's opinion, and it's not about feeling good.
It's about all of us working together to survive and
(22:44):
ensure we don't have climate chaos because we can't thrive
and survive and do well if we don't stop fossil
fuel use.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Was the bank right, I mean you've given your political lab.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well I do.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
I think that's not political like, that's just that's climate reality.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Well, it's you, it's you, it's your case.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
That's the climate reality. It's not just an opinion. And
I have to say the people who have made out
that this is just an opinion and there's two sides
to the story are denying.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I was not trying to get into that. I just
want to know the banking the banking side, well, I
do you agree with the bank?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Banks have the right to do to make the decisions
that they want to make about what they're going to
invest in, and that's.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Well, how would you feel of the banks turned around
and said that phil O'Reilly was going to open a
chain of EV filling stations route throughout New Zealand and
it needs one hundred million from the banks, and the
bank says, no, we don't actually want to be involved
in doing that. How would you feel then?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Well, I so here's here's the thing is that it's
not just like I like EV's I don't like fossil fuels.
Fossil fuels are an existential threat to the future of humanity,
and it's taken decades for people to realize that and
take action on it, whether they're banks or governments or
any other based on the right thing, because the fossil
fuel lobby deliberately tried to obfuscate and deny the reality.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
So do you think the bank's done the right thing?
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I think the banks are going to do what banks
are going to do. I agree with what philis said.
There are serious risk issues. This is reality. The earlier
we work together to help support communities through this transition,
and that's what the clean card discount was about. That's
what government policy was about. The better off New Zealand's.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I just still want to know whether you think BE
and ZI have done the right thing.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Like as I said, I agree with Phil.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
No, I just want to say yes or no. Do
you think they've done the right thing?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I think that they have the right to make decisions
about what they're going to invest in, and I think
they need to apply a consistent changing.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Your bank account to BE and Z because they're doing it.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
No. No, I bank with Kiwibank. I'm a supporter of
the government owned bank. Hopefully it will stay publicly owned.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
The good news is hopefully, I'm pretty confident others will
bank these guys. And we should also know, of course,
when you turn up to one of these places, as
I do from time to time because I really love driving,
and so I will get out and about around the
rural areas when you do turn up. Actually they are
community hubs, and that needs to be taken into account.
They're not just selling fuel. In fact, they're not even
mainly selling fuel. They're selling all sorts of other stuff,
milk and eggs and god and fixing trucks, cars, traffics
(25:08):
and farm and stuff and sign your pie if you're
on the road, that sort of stuff. So Theeshu community hubs,
we just need to think about them in that way.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
An article this week question where the school prize givings
are more harmful than good for school students, suggesting students
can work for the reward rather than their own self gratification.
Julian and Genta, what do you think you've got kids
probably at school, were about to be at school.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yeah, well primary school. But yeah, I was actually at
the wrong Attaire prize giving, Wrong Attai College prize giving
last night and I went to Wellington Girls East a
couple of weeks ago. I look, you know, I do
see the point of like, we want children and young
people to learn to do stuff for the enjoyment of it,
I think, than the being fulfilled by it. But I
(25:48):
also saw it at those prize givings, just so much
school spirit and I was really impressed at the support
from the students for their peers who were winning awards.
It just seemed like such a positive environment. It didn't
seem competitive. So I was really impressed at what I
saw at both those two.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
What do you think you're wrong with? Thai College?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Oh, rock Attach College was great. Yeah, Rongetach College and
Wellington Girls East both wonderful schools in my electorate well
East is on the border, but yeah, I was just
so impressed by the camaraderie and the support.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Right Pillow Riley, you had been one of those guys,
I would have been sitting in the back of the
of the hall watching you go up and get your
prizes every day. You would have been that guy that
was top of the class and I'd be saying something
that sounds a bit like banker, but it's wasn't bancre
and I'd be jealous as hell that you'd go out
and your parents would give you a hug, and I'd
go and hop in the backseat of my parents care
and go home with no prizes.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
As she's whistling, but I was head boy, yeah mate,
but twice twice and both made to media and secret Recioal,
why do you, Jason just taken that off my CV? Actually?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Have you?
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Of course not?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Is ITV still?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
I don't use the CVV days, I don't need one.
But no, you're right. But she to add on to
Julian's point, I've talked to two people in the last week,
including one of very senior sort of ambassador here in
the city, who have have had kids who have got
a prize, and for each of those parents was a
very special thing because the kids had had striven for
(27:14):
these prizes and had changed things around in their lives
and compared and so on, and that was just a
huge amount of pride for the parents and a great
success for them to see what had gone on. So
it wasn't just about agree with what Julian says about
the students, but it's also the parents and all that
sort of stuff. Now, of course, if the toxics, if
the school is a toxic sort of place, and if
it's over competitive and it's about womens and losers and
this was the course of prize giving, is just just
(27:36):
going to double down or all that behavior. But if
you've got the culture of the school, right, I think
prize givings are a great thing because they do and
I'm okay, if if there is a bit of competition,
you know, I do actually do a bit better than
you because I think, you know, life's a bit like that,
and and I don't you know, I don't think we
should say we should never compete, we should never be
have a person who's first, because that's just the way
(27:57):
the wood is. But I think that's sort of toxic
nature of it. To say I'm the winner, you're a loser. Well,
that's a bad idea, and I hope no schools do that.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Ok My favorite part last night was the year thirteen
livers doing an incredibly impressive hukker to the whole group,
and then all the other boys standing up and doing
an incredibly impressive hucker back. It was so so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
It'shuckers at high schools are amazing. Yeah, they're amazing, especially
at Pride giving. Yeah. Okay, Wellington City Council made nearly
ten thousand dollars in just one day. This is good.
That'll get my rates down in your rates down film
and maybe your write down during the end from two
new permanent bus lane cameras ten kay a day. It's
a good little business to have, is it, phill O'Reilly?
Is this reasonable or just read the revenue gathering? What
(28:40):
are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 4 (28:41):
They've got it. Well, it is a revenue together, of course,
But if you're going to create a bus lane, of
course you want to keep cars out of it. But
in my experience, and I drive that to that road
that was being talked about right outside of Wellington Hospital,
I drive that in taxis and cars and so on
quite a lot, and even walk it, I see very
few cars actually drive down the bus lane. So I
think Wellington City Council has got to be They're confined
all they like, but I think that to keep public support,
(29:03):
because they already got the bus lanes and cycle lanes
and sold already pretty controver, I think they've got to
create a bit of public support about design. For example,
is the will I find out that most of these
fines are happening because people into the bus lane a
bit before they're supposed to. If that's the case, then
I think really Welling City Council should really think about
the design of the bus lane to make sure that
traffic's gonna flow, and.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
They should put a sign up when you can turn lift.
I go on Cambridge here is to turn into here,
and I don't know when I can turn when, so
I always leave it to the last monthent. It's just a case,
and you're agreeing with me, are you agreeing with I.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Think information is important. And remember when I was Associate
Minister of Transport, I like promoted a policy if speed
cameras not raising revenue because the ideally you want people
to drive the safe and appropriate speed. It's the same
with the bus lane. Like ideally no one's using the
bus lane at the wrong time, so the many many
thousands of people taking the bus can get through on
(29:52):
the bus lane. So the point of these things is
not to raise revenue. And there's an easy way to
avoid paying the fine, which is I'll drive in the
bus lane. But you're right, I mean the information needs
to be there. It needs to be clear so that
people aren't making so it can be confusing. I love
that the bike and bustlinge on Adelaide Road and Riddeford
Street course. She used that all the time. It's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
And also if you want to do business up there,
but you know well, will agree to disagree on an
e bike.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I can tell you great, great way to save money,
great way to enjoy being outside and.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
This lost I've lost enough of money and EV's I
don't need a n ee bike as well, Thank you
very much. I would take a short break and be
back with hots and knots with Julia and Genta and
her hots will be me buying what I called.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
You and I were going to go for a ride.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Weren't we You wanted to go for a ride. There
was nothing to do with me. Where does we come
into it with you?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You were interested, I was interested.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
If you go pust the pub and see me.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
The Friday fat.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Okay, Julian and gender are you going first? Because I
can't control you. I can control Phil. Give us your
hots and.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Not speak not hot is despite you know obviously the announcement,
the non announcement about fairies but I've been in Parliament
under urgency all week so we've been there from like
eight in the morning till midnight. The last few nights
I got to get away for the prize giving, but yeah,
very late nights. That's not great ramming through legislation that
I think is mostly harmful to New Zealand. And then
(31:23):
what is hot? This beautiful, glorious weather here in Ponaqueer Wellington,
get out. I've been at the I've managed to make
it to the beach last weekend with my kids down
on the south coast, Princess Bay, my favorite. It's yeah,
it's a wonderful time to be in Wellington and enjoy
living in this coastal community.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Thank you, fill O Riley. What are your hots and nots?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
I'll start with them. I'll start with the not so
I can finish with the hot. Not is in New
Zealand and the airport's this busy time of the year
in New Zealand just seems to be won by fly
them a lot. They just seem to have got back
in the bad habit of being late and not running flights.
And then the airport, of course, you saw the outage
at walk on the airport, big day for the airports.
So this is the very time that you want airlines
and airports to shine, and right now I don't think
(32:03):
they are. So they've They've got a lot of work
to sort it out up.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Why have they slipped quickly? Why have they slipped so much?
Because we're getting a lot on the show that they
have slipped.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Yeah, they actually went through in news and with through
apaiter of being late all the time and then they
were on time. Well, good for them, and they've slipped
back of it and it'll be something inside the corporate
that will have got them back into that thing. They
just need to focus on it and get back on time. Frankly.
The hot though, is what I think will be annound
in the next few days, and that is that Liam
Lawson's going to run the Red Bull car. You think
he's got an expertap I think he has And there's
(32:31):
that All the media rumors are out there right now,
so I don't think you've done enough. That's what happens,
and if it does, that'll be one of the hots
of the year for me. I'm looking forward to. I'll
be at the Melbourne Grand Prix looking forward to seeing
him I'm a tragic and that sort of stuff, and
so just great to have a cure. That's a massive
story as the pinnacle of one of the biggest sports
in the world. It's it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Why do we not celebrate McLaren enough.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Well, because they've decided they're not a New zeal team.
They've decided they know.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
But I'm saying when he what he did, because you
know that. I mean, if you were to talk about
you know, that's just a credible that's right.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
And and we've had a long history of He's got
Denny Hall and Chriss am On and you know over
Bruce McLaren and so on. So we've had a huge,
uge number of things.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I do have to cut you off now because I've
got to go to a tride. But we could have
an argument, we could have a discussion about celebration about that.
But you're right, if Leed Lawson does make it, it'll
be an amazing, amazing achievement for a keiwek seven minutes
to twelve. Thank you both very much. I won't see
you before Christmas. They both have a very very merry Christmas.
Thank you for being regulars on the show and appreciate
having you on and hope you and your families both
(33:28):
have wonderful, safe Christmases. Follow Riley and Julianne Genta.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com