Would you pay a toll to use the Mt Victoria tunnel, are Wellington City Council staff exercising too much power, and should we urgently replace the Defence Force VIP planes?
Those were the questions for the Friday Faceoff panel this week, with former Wellington mayor Justin Lester and playwright and columnist Dave Armstrong.
Also on the agenda was the best concert the pair had ever been to, remembering the 60th anniversary of The Beatles arriving in Wellington today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B dissecting the week sublime and ridiculous.
Friday faceoff with Quinovic Property Management a better rental experience
for all. Call on eight hundred Quinovicery.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I don't care about.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
You Strive Love.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Joining us for Friday face Off this week is former
Willington mayor and Dot loves Dart director Jason Justin Jason
Justin Lester changing your name now for you, but you
might get more few more votes, might change the name
for it and columb assessment rude of its starting off
very rude. In columnist and playwright Dave. I'm strong and morning.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Dave, morning, make How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
How you doing it? You're both doing all right? Beautiful
day in paradise.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Lovely yeah, lovely day.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Alright. Let's talk about a tunnel seen it's a beautiful
day in paradise. We'll start with the government. The government
would could introduce tolls, right, you have to pay. I
don't know whether you guys are used to tolls, but Justin,
you lived overseas, so you definitely would, Dave, you would
have definitely lived overseas or moved had trips overseas. We're
going to introduce the government wants to maybe could be
(01:17):
introducing tolls for the second Mount Victoria Tunnel, which in
reality would we charged both ways because one tunnel is
going to come one way and the other tunnel is
going to go the other way. So if it cost
you five dollars to go into town, it's going to
cost you ten dollars if you want to go back out.
They would also strongly looking at this Mega Tunnel, which
(01:38):
will be told as well. Now those listeners who haven't
heard us talk about the Mega Tunnel, it's starting at
where the Terrace Tunnel is and coming out at the
Baddington Hall in Kilbernie, saving fifteen minutes of drive time.
Justin you would have been privy to a bit of
this stuff because you know the Second tunnel, definitely when
(01:58):
you were mayor Wellington's Does the Second Mount Victoria Victoria
Tunnel excite you? And what about the Mega te you both?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
And great great to tell them. I mean everyone will
have a collective history around your yelling experiences on toll roads.
I think one of the first was the Littleton Tunnel
and work really well paid itself back and it's great.
Anyone drives them out of Toe on it or north
of Auckland. You're going to toll road, so long as
it's easy. You know, it takes a picture of your
(02:29):
license plate. You can pay electronically. It's a small amount
of money and you've got the option of avoiding it.
You don't have to jump in your car. If you
live in a t t I can jump on a bike.
It's not that far back in the CBD, so both
are good. And yet look I don't want cars in
the CBD. I mean, for me, it's crazy that we've
got a state highway effectively that runs through the middle
(02:51):
of Cubis Street. That's nuts and it's a real detractor
for our CBD. So if they can build a tunnel,
Wellingtonians can't afford it, The council can't afford it.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
A CENTRALU much repet to set up and pay for it. Great,
Dave Armstrong, you're looking very interested there. What are you
all sorts? Will you be able to bike through that
tunnel do you think? Because David, of.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Course they won't let your bike, just like you can't
bike over the habit Bridge. They don't want cyclists doing that.
It just marks everything up for driving.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Fast or you were trying and get away without paying
a toll too, wouldn't you have a number player?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I think I should be incentivized not to pay a
toll if I'm not driving a car.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, I thought they're buying an EV but now I
pay road views to charges. That's that's well.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
The national government there then, didn't they Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
We're not politics, we're not talking politics.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
In the first minute of you brought it up, you're electricly.
I'll tell you what though, how cheap electric cars are
to run once you've paid the charges and once you
paid that I didn't realize how low the cost of
electricity is compared to petrol.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
But that's that's another store.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
That's another matter. No, look, I do I agree with
just and I support tolls totally because they are a
way of building something without getting messively in debt. If
they go over budget, it just means you have tolls
for longer. I mean, in a lot of projects, the
toll stops once you've you've paid it off. I don't
I can't see the government not doing that. This long tunnel, though,
the thing is driving as a habit, and you know
(04:10):
it's like saying we're going to make alcohol really freely
available for people that really really need it because it's
just too long queuing the bottle store. Bottlestore. What we
need to do is stop the habit of thinking every
time you go into town or go to the bottle
store that you need to.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Drive.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
So I'm not cynical about the big tunnel. In terms
of the Mount Vac Tunnel, I think, you know, yeah,
toll it. But the other thing you meant to have
a free road nearby.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, you can still go through Newtown. You'll upset you
a bit. You can go through Newtown to traffic and
go jam up around Newtown, and you can go around
Orangel Bailey, and there's plenty of ways, I suppose.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
So they say there's no direct route, but I'll take
you in for it.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, yours a route.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
You can go a direct It's looking to be horrible
for all the O Parade residents and people won't want
to dirk because you'll probably spend an hour traveling around
the bays.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
But then you can go through the tunnel and pay
your dollar. You know what. Last night I left work
a little bit later. I worked a little bit later
ten past five, I didn't get home, and I live
in the eastern suburbs. I didn't get home till a
quarter to six, so over half an hour for a
drive that takes me seven minutes in the mornings when
I come in at five thirty in the mornings. Have
I got a solution for you than it?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Because actually I've just been ranting down Sias today, even
I did on the street this morning to another mate.
I have moved to the wonderful suburb off to say
of Karori, amor from Karori and yeah, the whole A
lot of people sigh around the city, peraps. I'll tell
you what's great, but what also is great about it?
And so I just bike to work. It's down in
(05:42):
the hill, it's five k it takes me about ten minutes,
and I freaking love.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
It about driving home riding home and.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Again it's up a bit of a hill, but it's
not too bad. It takes about fifteen to twenty minutes
to get home.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
So it's fine. And you've got an ear bike, it's
really easy. But I'll tell you what so and now
from the CBD similar to you last night.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
So I would normally go and watch my daughter play
hockey up at the inn chest and it's a really
easy you know bike, right. It takes me about ten minutes,
Yet it anywhere I had to get in the car.
I had to pick her up, pick someone else up
and could Bernie then come home at nine o'clock with
a bunch of kids. Took me forty minutes to get
from town to NHS at the back end of Newtown baringport.
It was a pain in the rear. I agree with you,
(06:23):
but we're not going to fix it if we all
keep driving, keep parking on the streets.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
On your counterproduction. Minutes ten minutes your counterproductive. You've just
said you couldn't take your bike because you had to
pick up your daughter. So what happens to your daughter
and the daughter of friends and whatevers? If your wife
everybody pick up? Were you driving by yourself?
Speaker 4 (06:43):
NICKI are you healthy enough to jump on an ee
bike and drive home decent suburbs on a flat road
with no one last night?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Could you have done it? I could have done it,
and I live in the hill. There we go. I
live on the hill. But I couldn't have done it
if my wife would rang me and sin can you
get a bag of potatoes and can you get some
veggies and can you get a few things on that.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
It's great, but then if we take off twenty percent
of people who could have had another option, then you
will have freely without any delays or congestion.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
If we've got rid of those damn cycle ways on
Kent Terrace and Cambridge Terraces, I would have driven home
without problems like I've done for the last ten years.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Justin and I would be in cars, so we'd be
we'd be.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
No, you're still biking. No bike on the foot path.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Are I was in Tokyo about three months ago. Thirty
seven million people live highly highly densification, no congestion anywhere.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Highly flat. They're not the bad wind, no southerly.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Someone who actually drives, I've often drive my wife to
work all back. What I think is really bad about
Wellington is the inconsistency of travel. Some days we'll get
from Newtown to near to Papa in ten minutes. The
next day it will take me for him hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But that's why we need the tunnel.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
The reason you didn't get home last night was actually roadworks.
That's what's stuffing around the basis not cycle lanes at
all roadworks.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
DA.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'd really like to say that you're right, but you're wrong.
It's the damn bloody side waves along Kent Terrace and
Cambridge Terraces. Every time there's a problem, it's because of
the cycle work. And you know what, I'll tell you
to your face. I never saw a single single not one.
From the Embassy Theater to Aromar. I never saw one cyclist.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Okay, I when did I do it? Yesterday four point
thirty seven, I saw a mess of yellow Hiva's vest
coming towards me as I drove down Cambridge Terraces a mass.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Okay, we're digressing. A'm going to get hold off from
Ethan any second now. So we're both yes to the
idea of tolling. That's work, that's firstly, and are we
both yes to the idea of at least experimenting. And
just for those listeners and for you guys, if you
hadn't heard, the person that I was speaking to that
had got some involvement in this said stop bringing up
the earthquakes, because Japan's got tunnels everywhere and they have
(08:55):
got worse earthquakes than us. It's an engineer it's an
engineer's job to make them safe. And apparently some of
the engineering feeding and you know this justin on the
transmission gully was a lot harder than any tunnel. So
we can do it.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Oh, if we've got money, if you want to pay
in ten billion, fifteen billion.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Don't exaggerate. It's three hundred and fifty to four hundred
million a kilometer. Now it's four kilometers, right, but they reckon.
With inflation, it'll be half a billion.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Okay. That's so put on a public private partnership to
charge of one hundred percent. That's what happened with transmission gully.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Okay, gosh, you guys are hard work to start with.
Break brown.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
The Minister is prepared to pay for it, and we
take all the transport or no, sorry, a decent chunk
of the transport out of CBD and we put it under.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Okay, prime minister's plane broke down. It was not really
the prime minister's plane. It's an air Force plane, but
it's a prime minister was using. It broke down yet
agay on it's way to Japan this week, leaving a
business delegation stuck in pupa New Guinea before flying back
to Brisbane and having an Air New Zealand plane picked
them up from there. Just unless is this getting beyond
a joke now? It is too embarrassing, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
It's a wee bit embarrassing for the former CV in
New Zealand, a breakdown, and probably slightly unfortunate for all
the passengers who thought they were flying directly from Auckland
to Tokyo and had to stop off in Australia to
pick up the PM and the delegation. So I hope
those passengers got some extra dumplings or something thrown in,
or know, something free, nice we gift.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
You know what they got or they get they got
at Papa New Guinea five hour or six hours stay.
They got some warm beer and some chip packets of
smith Cross.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah you might be a PM hopefully shouted a couple
of rounds or something.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
But and the plane looks like great fun. It looks
like good fun, and we need a defense force plane
in order to land at international airports on these allegations.
My understanding is that's required rather than being on a
commercial flight. And unfortunately this is symptomatic of New Zealand's
approach to almost everything involving infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
We're a bit.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
She's my language, rip shit and bust a bit eight wires.
She'll be right until she's not right. We don't want
to spend We don't have the political courage to spend
fifty one hundred million dollars on a plane if it's required,
because we don't want that to happen on our watch.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And this is why we're in the stick that we're
in at the moment. And I know that you're going
to disagree with that, Dave Armstrong.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Of course they have come on. You can tell a
piece when you see one. Well, first thing, I think
that I think if you're going to spend fifty million,
I mean, thank goodness, we're not fighting a war. Imagine everything.
Oh the tank broke down, you know, but apart from
at least it's just the Prime minister's visit. But I
(11:38):
think that, you know, fifty five million, I think it
got that it would cost. There's a lot of money
that the money that's going to cut we get a
decent plane. The thing is, I'm not sure that that's
the best money to spend on the defense force. But
but you know, Gordon Campbell AND's scoop said a really
good thing. He said, why not charter on the airbus
get in New zeal having a beautiful in New Zealand plane.
(12:01):
Turning out, the problem is that we're in New Zealand.
This argument gets bandied around and anybody.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
That's done some res not saying that you haven't done
your research or not saying that, we'll tell you that
in New Zealand don't even have enough planes for themselves.
Oh yeah, let alone you know, I mean, no buyer,
and you're hiring and leasing planes for themselves, and they've
got all these motor problems. So it can't be that
simple to have airlines make money when planes are in
the air, So there's not one lying around, sitting around
and waiting to be used. So it doesn't quite work.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Okay, there may be similar just but yet again you
know we don't have we don't Justin's right, infrastructure in
New Zealand doesn't have extra planes. But I think this
idea of it's got to be a top military thing
just to take it someone that you know, and thousands
of people go to Tokyo a year.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yes, right, and a plane was able to pick up
sixty five of them on a normal flight, so they
had sixty five spare seats on it.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
To be honest, I'd rather have the fifty five million
being spent on something that can pick up people from
New Caledonia when there's unreast that that's a real situation.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
That's the same thing. That is the same thing. That's
why you need those air force planes. That's exactly their job.
Their job is to military.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
As I've flown in and yes I have you yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I loved it.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
I love you, lucky lucky you strapped in or do
you have peanuts being served in the aisles?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Oh no, it's not, it was you're strapped. It's like mesh,
you know that. It was like and there's a long
time ago.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Like it sounds like fun, like moving onto the netting.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
You're not, You're not, there's no, there's no would you
like you know, Casa Fries.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Did anybody jump out the rear of the plane?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
You go, no, it was it was a civilian flighter.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Se It also sounds like justin you would have even
seen mesh. You wouldn't even know what I grew up with.
I was about seven or eight. Yeah, right, should we
take a break, or should we go to the next topic.
What do you now, We'll go to the next topic.
We're relaxing, you know, I'm having a week off next week,
so I'm getting a bit loose for the last hour,
last hour of it. Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says
he was a pill pool to learn justin I'm coming
(13:55):
to you on this one that the Wonnington City Councilor
Ben McNulty had to request under the freedom of information law.
Brown gave a serve to council CEO Barbara Maciro after
she was formed a policy that withholds information from councilors
unless it related to an upcoming vote. Was this the
same sort of you would have read and seen this stuff?
(14:15):
Was that the same sort of stuff that was going
on when you were themyor.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I've got a lot of dear friends and quite a
lot of respect for public servants or with Wellning City Council,
and I work really close to the Barbara, So I
think the intent here was probably okay. The optics of
it are less okay, and the minister was correct to
criticize it. Look it is as an elected official, even
as maya incredibly frustrating sometimes dealing with public servants who
(14:42):
often have a different agenda to your own. Having said
that there should be a clear distinction between governance and
operations and management, and sometimes the elected representatives step across
that line. But was it a good idea by council? No,
a really poor one, constitutionally incorrect and wrong, and I'm
glad they turfed it out so you read the room.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Can I go one step further? We had the chief
on Woodsman, Peter Boshier, coming out and saying that she
didn't get the information from him, and she didn't, and
she was saying that you know that she had it
all cleared. That's kind of getting to the next level,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Yeah, look that sounds like a major misstep. And look,
I think Barbara apologized, she's walked back, it's been binned,
and that's probably the correct approach.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
What are you thinking, Dave, Well, I'm thinking, Snap, this
happened three years ago. This happened when three people tried
to get legal advice made public. Barbara McCall and her team,
it's not just her all said no, you can't possibly
have legal opinions on this. We had Diane Calvert, Iona
Pannat and Fliffitt Simon. You couldn't get three more different
counselors all saying why can't we see legal opinions from
(15:55):
the council paid lawyers and they were told no, you can't.
There was an outcry, people, people wrote articles, people counselors
got angry, and suddenly it all got reverse. Oh you
can see the legal advice. It's happened again. You know,
you guys can't see the advice on the airport. And
then Simeon Brown makes it and got on them. By
the way, totally support what he did. And now it's
(16:17):
been those protocols that that Barbara mccarrisson have all been
pushed back. So you know what it says to citizens
and the media is if you squawk loud enough, you
actually get the right thing done.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
We shouldn't have tried it on.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
If you don't, don't, they will, They will lie. They
will try it on.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Who's running the city right now?
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Justin it is safe to say that many of the
employees with any public service organization more political than the
elected representatives, and that's why they stay there for so long,
and that is very unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
That much can you say that again because I didn't
get down. I mean I didn't. I didn't. I just
did not get.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
No, I'm not This is not confining this to Wedning
City Council and many public service organizations lot thousands are
really great employees, but many more more political than the
elected representatives. They play games, They don't share information by
a mission. They only give you what they absolutely need
to and that is a repeated frustration. I'll give you
(17:20):
an example. I would around housing to kaying it we've
got five hundred new apartments in the city for people
who otherwise can afford to rent, and so slightly blow Markeren.
I had to go to the media and announce the
policy to force the organization into action. Because they refuse,
They obfuscated, they were obstinate. They said it wasn't their job,
(17:41):
and simply because it wasn't their idea. But we were
elected on a mandate to do these things. So I
just go and announce stuff, and I'd say to the
dominion post, this is what we're doing, and then the
officers had to follow on behind. It was incredibly frustrating.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
There are some great officers. I think you'll agree with it. Absolutely,
they are great they're highly motivated. I think the airport
she selled. They tried it last time and failed, so
trying it again.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Is Barbara Macciro's time up? Should she? I mean she's
up in February. I mean, as she got to a
situation where she's been there too long, has too much power.
You know, let's be really honest. Tory's a novice as maya,
and we've discussed us before, very difficult situation to become
mayor when you haven't been on a council before. You know,
we have had that discussion and we've now got a
(18:25):
situation where we've got the CEO basically running the show.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Look, I think that's a decision for Barbara and for
the mayor and the councilors. I think Barbara's a very
safe pair of hands.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It's a role.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
That has a lot of scrutiny, so it's really hard
to do everything right. So I've got a lot of
time and respect for her. I think she's doing a
good job. The question is more is who would want
the job in the future and will they do a
better job. Kevin Lavery is good. Gary Paul was there
for a long time, but it's a very hard job,
but Barbara's a safe pair of hands.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
What do you think, Dave, do you think she should go? Now?
Do you think it's time that we moved on and moved.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
I actually do agree with Justin that it's time for it.
It's not you know, it's not a public decision if
you like, it's up to the council and it's up
to the people that make the decision. I have not
been impressed the way, including Kevin Lavery actually, although I
looked back at him and go, there's some good things too,
But I have not been impressed. I mean, the joke
was good news, bad news Kevin and good news justin
(19:24):
that we used to say where they announced stuff. But
often CEOs I think, do you know, I think the
tail wags a dog and I think that's I think that.
I think if you're a CEO that wants to have influenced,
then an inexperienced mayor is a god. See you reckon
to me right now? Oh yes, I think the important
(19:44):
to sale is directly. Look, she's contra Tory. Fanner has
contravened Green policy. Of what she's rejoined, it's the most
fundamental policy not to privatize and she's gone against that
because the management wanted to Justin.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Oh, look, I think the management probably having more sway
at the moment than the elected representatives because the more
experienced than what they're doing. It's you're seeing that in
some of the outcomes and perhaps some of the confusion
around the council table.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I mean, do we hear this of other councils. Yes,
we do, but not nearly as I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Even know about it in Tower or something happened.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Yeah, but they've got a commissioner I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
That's what I'm saying. I've never heard of.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I couldn't even tell you who the CEO of Upper
Council or Aerial Council is.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Friday face off with Justin Lester and Dave Armstrong. Cursive writing.
A ministerial advisory group reviewed into the primary school curriculum
has recommended cursive writing for students. Dave Armstrong, you're a writer,
cursive writing? Can you write that way?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I got taught cursive handwriting. It made me hate writing,
and it made me believe, because I wasn't great at
spelling either, that I could not be a writer. And
it was only when I was quite old that I
realized that all those school handwriting literacy things were and
spelling tests are essentially a waste of time. If you
want to be a writer, you have a story to
tell and you tell it. Well, that's got nothing to
(21:04):
do with cursive handwriting. This government thinks that they know
how to teach better than teachers, and they're saying you
must teach cursive handwriting. Of course, handwriting's got its place,
so as calligraphy, but there's also literacy. I'd actually rather
they teach coding in schools, computer coding than teaching cursive handwriting.
But you know, a school should be a diet of
(21:25):
lots of different, interesting and motivating things.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You are an ex school teacher.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I call failed school teacher. But you
could say ex school teacher.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Would they say those who can do and those who
can't teach?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, and those who can't teach teach teachers.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Cursive handwriting justin I mean, you're an articulate young man.
I'm sure that you would have learned cursive handwriting. And
my mother, oh my god, her writing was next level
perfect cursive.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
I agree one hundred percent with Dave. I was talk
cursive handwriting at school but what's next. If they're bringing
that back smoke signals morse code, we're going back to
the chalkboard. Look, I'd rather much rather Look. I want
my kids to be able to write neatly and they
can buy in large. Haven't been taught it? I mean
I can write, Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Are you a neat writer? I mean you're an academic,
So am I a neat writer? I'm okay, Davin Oh.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I have taught students who say, but I thought you
were a writer. Your handwriting looks like the great scribblings
of a four year old. But the whole point is
writing is not about how you handwrite. It's about what
you say and what you create. I've created words, and
yet I can't print them neatly.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Most of the time, you're writing for yourself, because you're
not you're writing a card to somebody. Anything else is
on computer. And if you're writing notes to yourself, as
long as you can read it. My mother used to
say to me, look like, if you can read it,
it's okay. It's all.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
But I'll tell you what location.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Almost all kids these days, even the young ones in
their twinties, they are they're on some sort of device
they're on their phone, are they're on a computer screen
on their own an iPad or the equivalent, And so
what's the next generation you're going to be. They're going
to be communicating that orally and there'll be something they'll
dictator and that'll all be done for them.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
So is it important they have it? No, I'd much
rather they can code.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
I'd much rather they can build their own websites, they
can develop and they can write scripts.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
So that's much more important to me. Airport sale shares
come on, justin. You've got to help us out here.
There's been so much to talk about it. Now we
have the heart City Mayor Campbell Berry writing to Darren
Pontus raising the prospect of the Greater Wellington Regional Council
buying Wellington shares. What's your got? Well, you been sitting
there reading all this. We've talked about it before on
the show. You've said it comes up every three or
(23:41):
four years, and you know region.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Would I personally agree with selling airport shares and I
think it's financial lunacy.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Sorry, before you I forgot to turn your mic on.
You said the Regional Council couldn't afford it.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
No, the Regional Council can't afford it. It's not going
to happen. They've got a much smaller balance sheet th
Wellington City. Would I personally sell the airport shares? No,
I think it's financial lunacy. Give you a good example
why who's going to buy them in for till would
eat your arm off to get them because you can't
get that kind of capital turn it's a monopoly industry
that grows and grows and grows and grows, and we've
(24:16):
seen that over repeated years. Look at the sale of
the Wellington Lines network, which is just a money making
dream for the offshore owners. So I don't personally agree
with it. Look, it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
You think it will happen. I don't think it will.
I think public sentiment will jump in and I don't
believe the sale of the years will happen. There you
go then agreed to Shall we have lunch on that? Great?
If it doesn't happen, great. I wish it wouldn't just.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
To jump in on that. The long term plan will
be the decider, and I think it's at ninety seven
in favor of the long term plan. Next week they're
voting on so that rather than votes separately on the airport.
If the long term plan.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Gets is gone, they're gone.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah. But then you know, it's an interesting thing because
there's some labor counselors who are against privatization who will
support the long term plan. So it's a matter of
how important to do counselors think the airport is. Is
that the deciding vote the deal breaker on the long
term plan?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
So what happens if the long plan long term plan
doesn't go ahead? Justin Lester, that means that we're basically
got a commissioner on haven't we effectively? Yes, because you
can't vote against the long term plan you might disagree
with Let's be honest, it's only three or four percent
of the long term plan because ninety five percent is
operational day to day spending. That's the running of the
traffic light, that's the funding of the cemeteries, it's the
(25:33):
running of the swimming pools. You can't vote against it.
If you do, then something is seriously wrong. So how
do we not get the sale of the airport going
through the long term plan goes? So they pull it
out of the long term plan? Could they do that
that's democracy. Could they do that though, No, because normally
period of non revocation they had a vote on it.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
It went through. So you accept that, you suck it up,
you put your big boy or girl pants on, and
you sell the sh is and you vote through the
long term plan even if you disagree with it, because
look they're lost.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Really, Oh, Justin's right, But what I think it's very
close to vote so dying.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I think it could not. Do you think the long
term plan might not go ahead?
Speaker 3 (26:12):
No, I'm saying it's going to be close. For example,
Dyane Covert has been on the record as saying she
worked against the long term plan nothing to do with
the airport, but because of the high debt that they're
not having a debt ceiling basically, or not an effective
debt ceiling. So you might get a weird coalition of
anti people selling the airport combining with right wing people
who think the long term plan is too liberal.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Well, okay, next week we'll all come out. Best concert
you've ever been Today is sixty years since the Beatles
came to Wellington and the concert in Wearlington Town Hall.
It's been sixty years in the repair as well. Now
nearly open again. Just the lester, What was the best
concert you've ever been to?
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Well, I can't just say one. Both of a Wellington connection.
First the Dat Sin's playing at San Francisco bath House.
They absolutely rock that. Yeah, this is probably the fifteen
years ago. Had one of the best Friday nights of
my life. And another word, she had Big Day, the
Millennium Big Day early January two thousand and they had
(27:11):
fifty five thousand people just jumping to their rhythm. And yeah,
again a great Wellington higher graduates used to love them
in their prime, so that those were two examples.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Dave Armstrong, I think just I mean, I've been to
many many concerts and they're all amazing and stuff. But
the most memorable in a way was when I was
a teenager. My brothers took me to Split Ends in
the town Hall and the Wellington town Hall. I remember,
my name is Tim, I'm full of vim and they
were just you know, Noel Crombie playing as Spoons. So
it was just classics before they became really famous. Actually
(27:43):
it was before I Got You and all that. O'Neil
and the other one was going to New York in
ninety eighty one and hearing Dizzy Gillespian a jazz club
and John Belushi walked and everyone, oh, everyone said, oh,
there's John Beolution. I was going, I don't care about
who's John Belusha. I'm here to hear Dizzy Gillespie. But
that was amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Right. Well, I've got two as well, and they're both
New Zealand. I'm going to stay with you. Justin Golden Harvest,
when I was really young, they had a young maried
band from Toka Rah. I had a great song called
I Need Your Love. Have you ever got a chance
to listen to it? With a song? You know, great
song mary boys, all lovely harmonies. I Need You Love
by Golden Harvest. And the other one is super Groove.
Oh my god, I saw Super Groove in one of
(28:22):
my clubs and they you know, I can't get enough.
They were live. They were insanely good.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
The Friday hot.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Not here we go. It's the favorite time of the
week where our guests and Friday face off. Tell us
they're hots knots. Just unless to give us your hots knots.
My heart.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
The wonderful suburban life that is Kurorti. Friday food trucks
get down there, hundreds of people, if not thousands, are
turning out. There's a Mataniki festival on. I'm really enjoying it.
So look, there'll be some people sighing, no doubt, but
I'm loving Kurori life and you're not hot.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Why not.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
It's a bit of a shame that we've got a
Super Rugby final thatout. The Hurricanes had a great season.
They'll be disappointed by last week, but our best of
luck to the Blues and the Chief's great to see
in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Team one okay, Dave Armstrong, give us your hots and notts.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Okay. My het as TV and Z Plus, I've been
greatly enjoying the European Championship on TV and it's just
fantastic that it's on Plus and it's free. You don't
have to be a sky subscribed a skyscrap product, I am,
but but I like convenience of TV and ZI Plus streaming.
I'm a doer defender. I'm not a pretty boys striker
like Justin, but I still love the you know, quality
(29:42):
of the plan and everything not hot as the environment
this week, Apparently the balance has swung too far in
favor of the environment, says our environment minister, which I
think you know New Zealand is on record has been
one of the biggest polluters in the world, losing species
like you wouldn't believe. And I don't just mean this government.
(30:03):
I mean for the last hundred years. You know, we
can have an agriculture minister that doesn't want us to
grow things. In our finance minister, this interest rates aren't
high enough. I just can't believe that an environment minister would.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
And he's I thought the weird thing was what he
said there was just going to lose a whole lot
of that.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Was another minister saying that that we just got need
to do a cost thing on how much each species
will cost. I think that's just ridiculous, all.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Right by by kiwi bye bye Kiwi.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Oh, it's effectively what they're saying. What's who decides what's
important enough to save or not get rid of the
kiwi because you know, always want to extract some more
coal or something.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Do you think that we'll get to a stage where
I mean, we are you know a species country, aren't
we We're down the bottom end of the world. We
love our things like kiwi's and you know all those
sort of things. So do you reckon we'd ever get
to that stage where we say we're not going to
spend the money.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
On it's we're at that stage. We're at that stage
now they're saying, hey, let's tie ho, let's not spend
money on saving species. And you know Don Merson, the
famous guy that actually brought the black robin back from
extinction in the Chatnam Islands, he said, we don't have
Notre Dame Cathedral, we don't have Big ben but we
have carcopold key, we have fieldland, you know, so these
(31:17):
are our tourists, you know, jewels.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
If we have got twenty seconds for a plug, I've
just gone on to the board of Predator Free Welling.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Great, great initiative eliminated over time possums, but oats, weasels,
rats out of the middle of our peninsula and now
moving into the southern suburbs. The school cliff next year
not being funded. So there is a risk that the
entire initiative could fall over if it's not funded by
central government. And what a disaster that would be. Welcome
(31:45):
back the rats and the stoats and all that native
bird life and all of that effort that's gone and
we'll just be wasted.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
I couldn't hear my wife talk the other day because
the tourists were so loud. You have a great problem,
to have a beautiful problem, to wake upder to Zilandia.
You just have these fantastic too and the Prince of
Free people. It's just awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
There you go, there's our green plug. Gosh, you guys
should be going out clapping with Tory Farno. You sound
like that the Greens, the new green world.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I know we don't support privatization. We're not real green.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Thank you very much both. You have a great weekend.
Justin Lester and Dave Armstrong. I enjoyed having you on
the show today. Have a great weekend. Apparently the weather's
great tomorrow and crap on Sunday, that's what I'm hearing,
so enjoy tomorrow. Thank you, have a good one.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B dissecting the week sublime and ridiculous.
Friday faceoff with Quinovic Property Management a better rental experience
for all. Call on eight hundred Quinovicery.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I don't care about.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
You Strive Love.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Joining us for Friday face Off this week is former
Willington mayor and Dot loves Dart director Jason Justin Jason
Justin Lester changing your name now for you, but you
might get more few more votes, might change the name
for it and columb assessment rude of its starting off
very rude. In columnist and playwright Dave. I'm strong and morning.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Dave, morning, make How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
How you doing it? You're both doing all right? Beautiful
day in paradise.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Lovely yeah, lovely day.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Alright. Let's talk about a tunnel seen it's a beautiful
day in paradise. We'll start with the government. The government
would could introduce tolls, right, you have to pay. I
don't know whether you guys are used to tolls, but Justin,
you lived overseas, so you definitely would, Dave, you would
have definitely lived overseas or moved had trips overseas. We're
going to introduce the government wants to maybe could be
(01:17):
introducing tolls for the second Mount Victoria Tunnel, which in
reality would we charged both ways because one tunnel is
going to come one way and the other tunnel is
going to go the other way. So if it cost
you five dollars to go into town, it's going to
cost you ten dollars if you want to go back out.
They would also strongly looking at this Mega Tunnel, which
(01:38):
will be told as well. Now those listeners who haven't
heard us talk about the Mega Tunnel, it's starting at
where the Terrace Tunnel is and coming out at the
Baddington Hall in Kilbernie, saving fifteen minutes of drive time.
Justin you would have been privy to a bit of
this stuff because you know the Second tunnel, definitely when
(01:58):
you were mayor Wellington's Does the Second Mount Victoria Victoria
Tunnel excite you? And what about the Mega te you both?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
And great great to tell them. I mean everyone will
have a collective history around your yelling experiences on toll roads.
I think one of the first was the Littleton Tunnel
and work really well paid itself back and it's great.
Anyone drives them out of Toe on it or north
of Auckland. You're going to toll road, so long as
it's easy. You know, it takes a picture of your
(02:29):
license plate. You can pay electronically. It's a small amount
of money and you've got the option of avoiding it.
You don't have to jump in your car. If you
live in a t t I can jump on a bike.
It's not that far back in the CBD, so both
are good. And yet look I don't want cars in
the CBD. I mean, for me, it's crazy that we've
got a state highway effectively that runs through the middle
(02:51):
of Cubis Street. That's nuts and it's a real detractor
for our CBD. So if they can build a tunnel,
Wellingtonians can't afford it, The council can't afford it.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
A CENTRALU much repet to set up and pay for it. Great,
Dave Armstrong, you're looking very interested there. What are you
all sorts? Will you be able to bike through that
tunnel do you think? Because David, of.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Course they won't let your bike, just like you can't
bike over the habit Bridge. They don't want cyclists doing that.
It just marks everything up for driving.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Fast or you were trying and get away without paying
a toll too, wouldn't you have a number player?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I think I should be incentivized not to pay a
toll if I'm not driving a car.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, I thought they're buying an EV but now I
pay road views to charges. That's that's well.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
The national government there then, didn't they Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
We're not politics, we're not talking politics.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
In the first minute of you brought it up, you're electricly.
I'll tell you what though, how cheap electric cars are
to run once you've paid the charges and once you
paid that I didn't realize how low the cost of
electricity is compared to petrol.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
But that's that's another store.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
That's another matter. No, look, I do I agree with
just and I support tolls totally because they are a
way of building something without getting messively in debt. If
they go over budget, it just means you have tolls
for longer. I mean, in a lot of projects, the
toll stops once you've you've paid it off. I don't
I can't see the government not doing that. This long tunnel, though,
the thing is driving as a habit, and you know
(04:10):
it's like saying we're going to make alcohol really freely
available for people that really really need it because it's
just too long queuing the bottle store. Bottlestore. What we
need to do is stop the habit of thinking every
time you go into town or go to the bottle
store that you need to.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Drive.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
So I'm not cynical about the big tunnel. In terms
of the Mount Vac Tunnel, I think, you know, yeah,
toll it. But the other thing you meant to have
a free road nearby.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, you can still go through Newtown. You'll upset you
a bit. You can go through Newtown to traffic and
go jam up around Newtown, and you can go around
Orangel Bailey, and there's plenty of ways, I suppose.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
So they say there's no direct route, but I'll take
you in for it.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, yours a route.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
You can go a direct It's looking to be horrible
for all the O Parade residents and people won't want
to dirk because you'll probably spend an hour traveling around
the bays.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
But then you can go through the tunnel and pay
your dollar. You know what. Last night I left work
a little bit later. I worked a little bit later
ten past five, I didn't get home, and I live
in the eastern suburbs. I didn't get home till a
quarter to six, so over half an hour for a
drive that takes me seven minutes in the mornings when
I come in at five thirty in the mornings. Have
I got a solution for you than it?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Because actually I've just been ranting down Sias today, even
I did on the street this morning to another mate.
I have moved to the wonderful suburb off to say
of Karori, amor from Karori and yeah, the whole A
lot of people sigh around the city, peraps. I'll tell
you what's great, but what also is great about it?
And so I just bike to work. It's down in
(05:42):
the hill, it's five k it takes me about ten minutes,
and I freaking love.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
It about driving home riding home and.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Again it's up a bit of a hill, but it's
not too bad. It takes about fifteen to twenty minutes
to get home.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
So it's fine. And you've got an ear bike, it's
really easy. But I'll tell you what so and now
from the CBD similar to you last night.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
So I would normally go and watch my daughter play
hockey up at the inn chest and it's a really
easy you know bike, right. It takes me about ten minutes,
Yet it anywhere I had to get in the car.
I had to pick her up, pick someone else up
and could Bernie then come home at nine o'clock with
a bunch of kids. Took me forty minutes to get
from town to NHS at the back end of Newtown baringport.
It was a pain in the rear. I agree with you,
(06:23):
but we're not going to fix it if we all
keep driving, keep parking on the streets.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
On your counterproduction. Minutes ten minutes your counterproductive. You've just
said you couldn't take your bike because you had to
pick up your daughter. So what happens to your daughter
and the daughter of friends and whatevers? If your wife
everybody pick up? Were you driving by yourself?
Speaker 4 (06:43):
NICKI are you healthy enough to jump on an ee
bike and drive home decent suburbs on a flat road
with no one last night?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Could you have done it? I could have done it,
and I live in the hill. There we go. I
live on the hill. But I couldn't have done it
if my wife would rang me and sin can you
get a bag of potatoes and can you get some
veggies and can you get a few things on that.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
It's great, but then if we take off twenty percent
of people who could have had another option, then you
will have freely without any delays or congestion.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
If we've got rid of those damn cycle ways on
Kent Terrace and Cambridge Terraces, I would have driven home
without problems like I've done for the last ten years.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Justin and I would be in cars, so we'd be
we'd be.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
No, you're still biking. No bike on the foot path.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Are I was in Tokyo about three months ago. Thirty
seven million people live highly highly densification, no congestion anywhere.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Highly flat. They're not the bad wind, no southerly.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Someone who actually drives, I've often drive my wife to
work all back. What I think is really bad about
Wellington is the inconsistency of travel. Some days we'll get
from Newtown to near to Papa in ten minutes. The
next day it will take me for him hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But that's why we need the tunnel.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
The reason you didn't get home last night was actually roadworks.
That's what's stuffing around the basis not cycle lanes at
all roadworks.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
DA.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'd really like to say that you're right, but you're wrong.
It's the damn bloody side waves along Kent Terrace and
Cambridge Terraces. Every time there's a problem, it's because of
the cycle work. And you know what, I'll tell you
to your face. I never saw a single single not one.
From the Embassy Theater to Aromar. I never saw one cyclist.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Okay, I when did I do it? Yesterday four point
thirty seven, I saw a mess of yellow Hiva's vest
coming towards me as I drove down Cambridge Terraces a mass.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Okay, we're digressing. A'm going to get hold off from
Ethan any second now. So we're both yes to the
idea of tolling. That's work, that's firstly, and are we
both yes to the idea of at least experimenting. And
just for those listeners and for you guys, if you
hadn't heard, the person that I was speaking to that
had got some involvement in this said stop bringing up
the earthquakes, because Japan's got tunnels everywhere and they have
(08:55):
got worse earthquakes than us. It's an engineer it's an
engineer's job to make them safe. And apparently some of
the engineering feeding and you know this justin on the
transmission gully was a lot harder than any tunnel. So
we can do it.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Oh, if we've got money, if you want to pay
in ten billion, fifteen billion.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Don't exaggerate. It's three hundred and fifty to four hundred
million a kilometer. Now it's four kilometers, right, but they reckon.
With inflation, it'll be half a billion.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Okay. That's so put on a public private partnership to
charge of one hundred percent. That's what happened with transmission gully.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Okay, gosh, you guys are hard work to start with.
Break brown.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
The Minister is prepared to pay for it, and we
take all the transport or no, sorry, a decent chunk
of the transport out of CBD and we put it under.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Okay, prime minister's plane broke down. It was not really
the prime minister's plane. It's an air Force plane, but
it's a prime minister was using. It broke down yet
agay on it's way to Japan this week, leaving a
business delegation stuck in pupa New Guinea before flying back
to Brisbane and having an Air New Zealand plane picked
them up from there. Just unless is this getting beyond
a joke now? It is too embarrassing, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
It's a wee bit embarrassing for the former CV in
New Zealand, a breakdown, and probably slightly unfortunate for all
the passengers who thought they were flying directly from Auckland
to Tokyo and had to stop off in Australia to
pick up the PM and the delegation. So I hope
those passengers got some extra dumplings or something thrown in,
or know, something free, nice we gift.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
You know what they got or they get they got
at Papa New Guinea five hour or six hours stay.
They got some warm beer and some chip packets of
smith Cross.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah you might be a PM hopefully shouted a couple
of rounds or something.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
But and the plane looks like great fun. It looks
like good fun, and we need a defense force plane
in order to land at international airports on these allegations.
My understanding is that's required rather than being on a
commercial flight. And unfortunately this is symptomatic of New Zealand's
approach to almost everything involving infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
We're a bit.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
She's my language, rip shit and bust a bit eight wires.
She'll be right until she's not right. We don't want
to spend We don't have the political courage to spend
fifty one hundred million dollars on a plane if it's required,
because we don't want that to happen on our watch.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And this is why we're in the stick that we're
in at the moment. And I know that you're going
to disagree with that, Dave Armstrong.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Of course they have come on. You can tell a
piece when you see one. Well, first thing, I think
that I think if you're going to spend fifty million,
I mean, thank goodness, we're not fighting a war. Imagine everything.
Oh the tank broke down, you know, but apart from
at least it's just the Prime minister's visit. But I
(11:38):
think that, you know, fifty five million, I think it
got that it would cost. There's a lot of money
that the money that's going to cut we get a
decent plane. The thing is, I'm not sure that that's
the best money to spend on the defense force. But
but you know, Gordon Campbell AND's scoop said a really
good thing. He said, why not charter on the airbus
get in New zeal having a beautiful in New Zealand plane.
(12:01):
Turning out, the problem is that we're in New Zealand.
This argument gets bandied around and anybody.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
That's done some res not saying that you haven't done
your research or not saying that, we'll tell you that
in New Zealand don't even have enough planes for themselves.
Oh yeah, let alone you know, I mean, no buyer,
and you're hiring and leasing planes for themselves, and they've
got all these motor problems. So it can't be that
simple to have airlines make money when planes are in
the air, So there's not one lying around, sitting around
and waiting to be used. So it doesn't quite work.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Okay, there may be similar just but yet again you
know we don't have we don't Justin's right, infrastructure in
New Zealand doesn't have extra planes. But I think this
idea of it's got to be a top military thing
just to take it someone that you know, and thousands
of people go to Tokyo a year.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yes, right, and a plane was able to pick up
sixty five of them on a normal flight, so they
had sixty five spare seats on it.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
To be honest, I'd rather have the fifty five million
being spent on something that can pick up people from
New Caledonia when there's unreast that that's a real situation.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
That's the same thing. That is the same thing. That's
why you need those air force planes. That's exactly their job.
Their job is to military.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
As I've flown in and yes I have you yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I loved it.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
I love you, lucky lucky you strapped in or do
you have peanuts being served in the aisles?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Oh no, it's not, it was you're strapped. It's like mesh,
you know that. It was like and there's a long
time ago.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Like it sounds like fun, like moving onto the netting.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
You're not, You're not, there's no, there's no would you
like you know, Casa Fries.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Did anybody jump out the rear of the plane?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
You go, no, it was it was a civilian flighter.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Se It also sounds like justin you would have even
seen mesh. You wouldn't even know what I grew up with.
I was about seven or eight. Yeah, right, should we
take a break, or should we go to the next topic.
What do you now, We'll go to the next topic.
We're relaxing, you know, I'm having a week off next week,
so I'm getting a bit loose for the last hour,
last hour of it. Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says
he was a pill pool to learn justin I'm coming
(13:55):
to you on this one that the Wonnington City Councilor
Ben McNulty had to request under the freedom of information law.
Brown gave a serve to council CEO Barbara Maciro after
she was formed a policy that withholds information from councilors
unless it related to an upcoming vote. Was this the
same sort of you would have read and seen this stuff?
(14:15):
Was that the same sort of stuff that was going
on when you were themyor.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I've got a lot of dear friends and quite a
lot of respect for public servants or with Wellning City Council,
and I work really close to the Barbara, So I
think the intent here was probably okay. The optics of
it are less okay, and the minister was correct to
criticize it. Look it is as an elected official, even
as maya incredibly frustrating sometimes dealing with public servants who
(14:42):
often have a different agenda to your own. Having said
that there should be a clear distinction between governance and
operations and management, and sometimes the elected representatives step across
that line. But was it a good idea by council? No,
a really poor one, constitutionally incorrect and wrong, and I'm
glad they turfed it out so you read the room.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Can I go one step further? We had the chief
on Woodsman, Peter Boshier, coming out and saying that she
didn't get the information from him, and she didn't, and
she was saying that you know that she had it
all cleared. That's kind of getting to the next level,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Yeah, look that sounds like a major misstep. And look,
I think Barbara apologized, she's walked back, it's been binned,
and that's probably the correct approach.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
What are you thinking, Dave, Well, I'm thinking, Snap, this
happened three years ago. This happened when three people tried
to get legal advice made public. Barbara McCall and her team,
it's not just her all said no, you can't possibly
have legal opinions on this. We had Diane Calvert, Iona
Pannat and Fliffitt Simon. You couldn't get three more different
counselors all saying why can't we see legal opinions from
(15:55):
the council paid lawyers and they were told no, you can't.
There was an outcry, people, people wrote articles, people counselors
got angry, and suddenly it all got reverse. Oh you
can see the legal advice. It's happened again. You know,
you guys can't see the advice on the airport. And
then Simeon Brown makes it and got on them. By
the way, totally support what he did. And now it's
(16:17):
been those protocols that that Barbara mccarrisson have all been
pushed back. So you know what it says to citizens
and the media is if you squawk loud enough, you
actually get the right thing done.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
We shouldn't have tried it on.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
If you don't, don't, they will, They will lie. They
will try it on.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Who's running the city right now?
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Justin it is safe to say that many of the
employees with any public service organization more political than the
elected representatives, and that's why they stay there for so long,
and that is very unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
That much can you say that again because I didn't
get down. I mean I didn't. I didn't. I just
did not get.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
No, I'm not This is not confining this to Wedning
City Council and many public service organizations lot thousands are
really great employees, but many more more political than the
elected representatives. They play games, They don't share information by
a mission. They only give you what they absolutely need
to and that is a repeated frustration. I'll give you
(17:20):
an example. I would around housing to kaying it we've
got five hundred new apartments in the city for people
who otherwise can afford to rent, and so slightly blow Markeren.
I had to go to the media and announce the
policy to force the organization into action. Because they refuse,
They obfuscated, they were obstinate. They said it wasn't their job,
(17:41):
and simply because it wasn't their idea. But we were
elected on a mandate to do these things. So I
just go and announce stuff, and I'd say to the
dominion post, this is what we're doing, and then the
officers had to follow on behind. It was incredibly frustrating.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
There are some great officers. I think you'll agree with it. Absolutely,
they are great they're highly motivated. I think the airport
she selled. They tried it last time and failed, so
trying it again.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Is Barbara Macciro's time up? Should she? I mean she's
up in February. I mean, as she got to a
situation where she's been there too long, has too much power.
You know, let's be really honest. Tory's a novice as maya,
and we've discussed us before, very difficult situation to become
mayor when you haven't been on a council before. You know,
we have had that discussion and we've now got a
(18:25):
situation where we've got the CEO basically running the show.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Look, I think that's a decision for Barbara and for
the mayor and the councilors. I think Barbara's a very
safe pair of hands.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It's a role.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
That has a lot of scrutiny, so it's really hard
to do everything right. So I've got a lot of
time and respect for her. I think she's doing a
good job. The question is more is who would want
the job in the future and will they do a
better job. Kevin Lavery is good. Gary Paul was there
for a long time, but it's a very hard job,
but Barbara's a safe pair of hands.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
What do you think, Dave, do you think she should go? Now?
Do you think it's time that we moved on and moved.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
I actually do agree with Justin that it's time for it.
It's not you know, it's not a public decision if
you like, it's up to the council and it's up
to the people that make the decision. I have not
been impressed the way, including Kevin Lavery actually, although I
looked back at him and go, there's some good things too,
But I have not been impressed. I mean, the joke
was good news, bad news Kevin and good news justin
(19:24):
that we used to say where they announced stuff. But
often CEOs I think, do you know, I think the
tail wags a dog and I think that's I think that.
I think if you're a CEO that wants to have influenced,
then an inexperienced mayor is a god. See you reckon
to me right now? Oh yes, I think the important
(19:44):
to sale is directly. Look, she's contra Tory. Fanner has
contravened Green policy. Of what she's rejoined, it's the most
fundamental policy not to privatize and she's gone against that
because the management wanted to Justin.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Oh, look, I think the management probably having more sway
at the moment than the elected representatives because the more
experienced than what they're doing. It's you're seeing that in
some of the outcomes and perhaps some of the confusion
around the council table.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I mean, do we hear this of other councils. Yes,
we do, but not nearly as I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Even know about it in Tower or something happened.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Yeah, but they've got a commissioner I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
That's what I'm saying. I've never heard of.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I couldn't even tell you who the CEO of Upper
Council or Aerial Council is.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Friday face off with Justin Lester and Dave Armstrong. Cursive writing.
A ministerial advisory group reviewed into the primary school curriculum
has recommended cursive writing for students. Dave Armstrong, you're a writer,
cursive writing? Can you write that way?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I got taught cursive handwriting. It made me hate writing,
and it made me believe, because I wasn't great at
spelling either, that I could not be a writer. And
it was only when I was quite old that I
realized that all those school handwriting literacy things were and
spelling tests are essentially a waste of time. If you
want to be a writer, you have a story to
tell and you tell it. Well, that's got nothing to
(21:04):
do with cursive handwriting. This government thinks that they know
how to teach better than teachers, and they're saying you
must teach cursive handwriting. Of course, handwriting's got its place,
so as calligraphy, but there's also literacy. I'd actually rather
they teach coding in schools, computer coding than teaching cursive handwriting.
But you know, a school should be a diet of
(21:25):
lots of different, interesting and motivating things.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You are an ex school teacher.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I call failed school teacher. But you
could say ex school teacher.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Would they say those who can do and those who
can't teach?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, and those who can't teach teach teachers.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Cursive handwriting justin I mean, you're an articulate young man.
I'm sure that you would have learned cursive handwriting. And
my mother, oh my god, her writing was next level
perfect cursive.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
I agree one hundred percent with Dave. I was talk
cursive handwriting at school but what's next. If they're bringing
that back smoke signals morse code, we're going back to
the chalkboard. Look, I'd rather much rather Look. I want
my kids to be able to write neatly and they
can buy in large. Haven't been taught it? I mean
I can write, Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Are you a neat writer? I mean you're an academic,
So am I a neat writer? I'm okay, Davin Oh.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I have taught students who say, but I thought you
were a writer. Your handwriting looks like the great scribblings
of a four year old. But the whole point is
writing is not about how you handwrite. It's about what
you say and what you create. I've created words, and
yet I can't print them neatly.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Most of the time, you're writing for yourself, because you're
not you're writing a card to somebody. Anything else is
on computer. And if you're writing notes to yourself, as
long as you can read it. My mother used to
say to me, look like, if you can read it,
it's okay. It's all.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
But I'll tell you what location.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Almost all kids these days, even the young ones in
their twinties, they are they're on some sort of device
they're on their phone, are they're on a computer screen
on their own an iPad or the equivalent, And so
what's the next generation you're going to be. They're going
to be communicating that orally and there'll be something they'll
dictator and that'll all be done for them.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
So is it important they have it? No, I'd much
rather they can code.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
I'd much rather they can build their own websites, they
can develop and they can write scripts.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
So that's much more important to me. Airport sale shares
come on, justin. You've got to help us out here.
There's been so much to talk about it. Now we
have the heart City Mayor Campbell Berry writing to Darren
Pontus raising the prospect of the Greater Wellington Regional Council
buying Wellington shares. What's your got? Well, you been sitting
there reading all this. We've talked about it before on
the show. You've said it comes up every three or
(23:41):
four years, and you know region.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Would I personally agree with selling airport shares and I
think it's financial lunacy.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Sorry, before you I forgot to turn your mic on.
You said the Regional Council couldn't afford it.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
No, the Regional Council can't afford it. It's not going
to happen. They've got a much smaller balance sheet th
Wellington City. Would I personally sell the airport shares? No,
I think it's financial lunacy. Give you a good example
why who's going to buy them in for till would
eat your arm off to get them because you can't
get that kind of capital turn it's a monopoly industry
that grows and grows and grows and grows, and we've
(24:16):
seen that over repeated years. Look at the sale of
the Wellington Lines network, which is just a money making
dream for the offshore owners. So I don't personally agree
with it. Look, it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
You think it will happen. I don't think it will.
I think public sentiment will jump in and I don't
believe the sale of the years will happen. There you
go then agreed to Shall we have lunch on that? Great?
If it doesn't happen, great. I wish it wouldn't just.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
To jump in on that. The long term plan will
be the decider, and I think it's at ninety seven
in favor of the long term plan. Next week they're
voting on so that rather than votes separately on the airport.
If the long term plan.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Gets is gone, they're gone.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah. But then you know, it's an interesting thing because
there's some labor counselors who are against privatization who will
support the long term plan. So it's a matter of
how important to do counselors think the airport is. Is
that the deciding vote the deal breaker on the long
term plan?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
So what happens if the long plan long term plan
doesn't go ahead? Justin Lester, that means that we're basically
got a commissioner on haven't we effectively? Yes, because you
can't vote against the long term plan you might disagree
with Let's be honest, it's only three or four percent
of the long term plan because ninety five percent is
operational day to day spending. That's the running of the
traffic light, that's the funding of the cemeteries, it's the
(25:33):
running of the swimming pools. You can't vote against it.
If you do, then something is seriously wrong. So how
do we not get the sale of the airport going
through the long term plan goes? So they pull it
out of the long term plan? Could they do that
that's democracy. Could they do that though, No, because normally
period of non revocation they had a vote on it.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
It went through. So you accept that, you suck it up,
you put your big boy or girl pants on, and
you sell the sh is and you vote through the
long term plan even if you disagree with it, because
look they're lost.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Really, Oh, Justin's right, But what I think it's very
close to vote so dying.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I think it could not. Do you think the long
term plan might not go ahead?
Speaker 3 (26:12):
No, I'm saying it's going to be close. For example,
Dyane Covert has been on the record as saying she
worked against the long term plan nothing to do with
the airport, but because of the high debt that they're
not having a debt ceiling basically, or not an effective
debt ceiling. So you might get a weird coalition of
anti people selling the airport combining with right wing people
who think the long term plan is too liberal.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Well, okay, next week we'll all come out. Best concert
you've ever been Today is sixty years since the Beatles
came to Wellington and the concert in Wearlington Town Hall.
It's been sixty years in the repair as well. Now
nearly open again. Just the lester, What was the best
concert you've ever been to?
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Well, I can't just say one. Both of a Wellington connection.
First the Dat Sin's playing at San Francisco bath House.
They absolutely rock that. Yeah, this is probably the fifteen
years ago. Had one of the best Friday nights of
my life. And another word, she had Big Day, the
Millennium Big Day early January two thousand and they had
(27:11):
fifty five thousand people just jumping to their rhythm. And yeah,
again a great Wellington higher graduates used to love them
in their prime, so that those were two examples.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Dave Armstrong, I think just I mean, I've been to
many many concerts and they're all amazing and stuff. But
the most memorable in a way was when I was
a teenager. My brothers took me to Split Ends in
the town Hall and the Wellington town Hall. I remember,
my name is Tim, I'm full of vim and they
were just you know, Noel Crombie playing as Spoons. So
it was just classics before they became really famous. Actually
(27:43):
it was before I Got You and all that. O'Neil
and the other one was going to New York in
ninety eighty one and hearing Dizzy Gillespian a jazz club
and John Belushi walked and everyone, oh, everyone said, oh,
there's John Beolution. I was going, I don't care about
who's John Belusha. I'm here to hear Dizzy Gillespie. But
that was amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Right. Well, I've got two as well, and they're both
New Zealand. I'm going to stay with you. Justin Golden Harvest,
when I was really young, they had a young maried
band from Toka Rah. I had a great song called
I Need Your Love. Have you ever got a chance
to listen to it? With a song? You know, great
song mary boys, all lovely harmonies. I Need You Love
by Golden Harvest. And the other one is super Groove.
Oh my god, I saw Super Groove in one of
(28:22):
my clubs and they you know, I can't get enough.
They were live. They were insanely good.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
The Friday hot.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Not here we go. It's the favorite time of the
week where our guests and Friday face off. Tell us
they're hots knots. Just unless to give us your hots knots.
My heart.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
The wonderful suburban life that is Kurorti. Friday food trucks
get down there, hundreds of people, if not thousands, are
turning out. There's a Mataniki festival on. I'm really enjoying it.
So look, there'll be some people sighing, no doubt, but
I'm loving Kurori life and you're not hot.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Why not.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
It's a bit of a shame that we've got a
Super Rugby final thatout. The Hurricanes had a great season.
They'll be disappointed by last week, but our best of
luck to the Blues and the Chief's great to see
in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Team one okay, Dave Armstrong, give us your hots and notts.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Okay. My het as TV and Z Plus, I've been
greatly enjoying the European Championship on TV and it's just
fantastic that it's on Plus and it's free. You don't
have to be a sky subscribed a skyscrap product, I am,
but but I like convenience of TV and ZI Plus streaming.
I'm a doer defender. I'm not a pretty boys striker
like Justin, but I still love the you know, quality
(29:42):
of the plan and everything not hot as the environment
this week, Apparently the balance has swung too far in
favor of the environment, says our environment minister, which I
think you know New Zealand is on record has been
one of the biggest polluters in the world, losing species
like you wouldn't believe. And I don't just mean this government.
(30:03):
I mean for the last hundred years. You know, we
can have an agriculture minister that doesn't want us to
grow things. In our finance minister, this interest rates aren't
high enough. I just can't believe that an environment minister would.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
And he's I thought the weird thing was what he
said there was just going to lose a whole lot
of that.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Was another minister saying that that we just got need
to do a cost thing on how much each species
will cost. I think that's just ridiculous, all.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Right by by kiwi bye bye Kiwi.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Oh, it's effectively what they're saying. What's who decides what's
important enough to save or not get rid of the
kiwi because you know, always want to extract some more
coal or something.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Do you think that we'll get to a stage where
I mean, we are you know a species country, aren't
we We're down the bottom end of the world. We
love our things like kiwi's and you know all those
sort of things. So do you reckon we'd ever get
to that stage where we say we're not going to
spend the money.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
On it's we're at that stage. We're at that stage
now they're saying, hey, let's tie ho, let's not spend
money on saving species. And you know Don Merson, the
famous guy that actually brought the black robin back from
extinction in the Chatnam Islands, he said, we don't have
Notre Dame Cathedral, we don't have Big ben but we
have carcopold key, we have fieldland, you know, so these
(31:17):
are our tourists, you know, jewels.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
If we have got twenty seconds for a plug, I've
just gone on to the board of Predator Free Welling.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Great, great initiative eliminated over time possums, but oats, weasels,
rats out of the middle of our peninsula and now
moving into the southern suburbs. The school cliff next year
not being funded. So there is a risk that the
entire initiative could fall over if it's not funded by
central government. And what a disaster that would be. Welcome
(31:45):
back the rats and the stoats and all that native
bird life and all of that effort that's gone and
we'll just be wasted.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
I couldn't hear my wife talk the other day because
the tourists were so loud. You have a great problem,
to have a beautiful problem, to wake upder to Zilandia.
You just have these fantastic too and the Prince of
Free people. It's just awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
There you go, there's our green plug. Gosh, you guys
should be going out clapping with Tory Farno. You sound
like that the Greens, the new green world.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I know we don't support privatization. We're not real green.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Thank you very much both. You have a great weekend.
Justin Lester and Dave Armstrong. I enjoyed having you on
the show today. Have a great weekend. Apparently the weather's
great tomorrow and crap on Sunday, that's what I'm hearing,
so enjoy tomorrow. Thank you, have a good one.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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