The government has announced changes to election rules, ending the ability to enrol on election day - something 110,000 people did last election. Is this a reasonable move, or could it risk disenfranchising some would-be voters?
Also, the government has instructed Sport NZ to scrap its guidelines on transgender participation in sport, which directed sporting bodies to allow trans people to participate as the gender they identify with. Now, individual sporting bodies will make their own decisions on trans inclusion. Is this the right call?
To answer those questions, broadcaster Mark Sainsbury and Lower Hutt mayor Campbell Barry joined Nick Mills for Friday Faceoff.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday face off with Goodovic Property Management, a better rental
experience for all.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Visit dot co dot In's head start joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Friday face Off this week is Lower Hut Mayor Campbell Barry.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Good morning, Campbell, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Haven't made up your mind yet? Day We just chatted
before we went on here. You don't know what you're
going to do. You're unemployed. You might be on the
doll the doll numbers are going up.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
I might have to go to McDonald's or something like that.
You know, that's my first job.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
That'll be a good job.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
That's not that's the nominations closed. Is it not too
late to change your mind? No?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I definitely made my mind up, So having lots of
coffees at the moment and sit a deadline of probably
September to workout exactly what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
For those that didn't know, and I'm sure there'll be
one or two our listeners that didn't know, we bring
you up to date. Campbell's not a run to become
mayor of lot even though you know the powers of
b let's quickly talk about this because we haven't got
on our list. Mark Shamesbury, by the way, good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Good morning Nick.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
The powers of Bee of all the councils have got
together and have been listening to the show of it
and realized that the malgamation's back on the on the
talking point.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
Yeah they have.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I think it shows that we're at a point where
we need to seriously consider reorganization. I've said publicly now
that I think we should have one council for the
metropolitan area. I think it should be a unitary authority,
set up a Wellington Transport Authority to deal with public
transport that alongside the new Water Entity. Then go to
the Prime Minister and the letter of the Opposition, get
them to sign an agreement where they also give you
(01:49):
some different revenue options as well.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, I mean it's interesting that it's taken so damn long.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I mean we all.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Mark's nodding his head as you talk here. It's not
on our list, but I mean, I mean, realistically, when
all the CEOs are getting together, we've been talking about
it on the show for four years.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It's time. Well, I was chatting to make this small.
He is going, Look, I don't understand this. Why do
we need separate planning places in every council? I mean,
surely all those things should be There's lots of reasons
for efficiency and I just don't know what that we
get that parochial thing, you know, people, I don't want
it changed. I want to stay as this. But you
just look at it makes sense, doesn't it. I mean
(02:25):
you have to look at sort of unifying so the council.
Is there anyone really against it?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I mean Guppy sat on the fence for a bit,
but he's changed his mind.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
He said it's okay. I believe.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I don't want to put words in Wayne's mouth, but
I think he's mellowed a bit. Anita Baker's been always
for it. Tory Farno, you yeah, are we all changing now?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
I think that the view when you talk to people
on the street has changed significantly in the last ten years.
I think they can see the financial pressures that councils
are under. They can see the benefit that Auckland has
had from having one voice in regards to getting things
done with government. Albeit it's not perfect up there. So
I think the time is right. Will be interesting to
see what we get back in our referendum poll which
(03:09):
we're holding to say, and you are doing that up, Yeah,
that's right, yep, yep. So I think they will give
us a good gauge of where people are at.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Right, Okay, let's move on.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I mean that was me pulling that one out of
my backside because it's something that I'm very passionate about.
And I saw that the CEOs, just for those people
that didn't really get to go, the CEOs of the
four cities have got together and had a bit of
a chat about the whole idea and had a planning
planning meeting about it. Apparently, according to something I read,
the government has announced changes to the election rules ending
(03:38):
enrollment on election day. Some about one hundred and ten
thousand people did this last election, Mark Sainsbury. Is this
as bad as labor as claimed or does it actually
make perfect sense?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
You can look, you can understand even I listened to
old David Seymour. You know, peoplesh if they can't be
bothered getting off, they're asked to go and roll, you know,
they don't deserve their vote sort of thing. But voting
is such an important and important right that any meet
measure you start taking to cut back people's access to it. Yeah,
you should be able to get your act together and
you should have been rolled well before the election. But
(04:14):
you know they're saying odds might take an extra week
to get the results, and well, look how long Winston
held us up for after numerous elections.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Does that really make that much more? Would it make
any difference? I mean, you're a political guy. Would that
make any difference? If we're the voting was all or
we had all the votes, would that speed things up?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
With Winson? No? No, beaus Winston's thing was was not sure. Well,
he always says we're going to wait till we see
the final result and everything like that. But quite often
with Winston it's just the minutiae of the negotiations and
what sort of deal and those things. You've seen some
of those things drag on for weeks and weeks and weeks.
You're right to vote, I think is just so important
that any effort to sort of starts cutting that back.
(04:52):
And let's face it, they probably figure most of the
people in roll late are more likely to be left voters.
All those sort of things point to that. So don't underestimate.
There's a lot of self interesting.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
You reckon, there's a bit of cynic I reckon. Yeah, okay,
camill Berry, you're looking not in your head listening to Mark.
What are your thoughts on this? Is this the right
wings trying to get more votes or do you think
it's actually we should actually get off our backside and
we should enroll far before the elections. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
I don't know what their intentions are, but it is
clear that you know, people who vote later more likely
to vote left. So I'm a bit of a cynic
around what that looks like as well. I think when
it comes to elections, in voting, there should be a
level of consensus with any significant changes, and we should
always err on the side of enabling more people to vote,
as simple as that. I think this is a disappointing change.
(05:43):
As Mark said, I would say it's more down to politicians,
and one in particular who is more likely to delay,
you know, the form formation of a government. The last election, yes,
it did take a while to get the final results,
but we knew where it was heading. It was Winston
who held that up.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
But that could be worse next election. Let's be fair
couldn't it. I mean, you know, with another member of
the coalition being a little bit more power from pumping
his chest up a bit more now. I mean, it's
not going to be an easy fix either way left
or right next election, is it.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Well, that's an MMP environment, right. I mean we're actually
quick in comparison to some of the other MMP countries.
I think Germany months six months or so to form
their government. So there is the reality of the type
of system we've got it.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You've also got this weird situation in this next election.
That's why the polls are so interesting. Next because we've
already heard Winston going, well, I don't care, I'm not
going with Labor next election. The Greens, you know, are
never going to go with National. So you used to
have this sort of contestable thing of where's it going
to go, who can pull on the support and all
that sort of stuff, whereas this next time round, everyone
(06:47):
at this stage has said, this is our non negotiating position.
We're not going to spport the side. We're not gonna
spport that side. So it's going to be a simple
left right vote.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I mean, can I come to again? Because that this
makes it really interesting for me. You know, that means
labor only chance is if they form a coalition with
Greens and to party marriage. Now that's a hard sell
for anyone, So that does that disadvantage labor.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Oh look, I think there's a bit of water to
go unto the bridge. As we get closer to the election,
it will be interesting to see where people start to
position themselves. You know, there has been some softening from
Chriss Sipkins around working working with Winston Peters in comparison
to before the last election.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Let's see where it heads.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Even though Winston's easy won't work with him.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, but we saw change before an election once before
and with big results, didn't we.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
Yeah that's right.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I mean, let's be perfectly honest about it. I mean
people are already coming out and saying that New Zealand
First are the new Labor because they're trying to keep
people in work and trying to keep jobs going. You know,
Stuartness came out and said it. But you know people
are joined in the conversation, haven't they. You're both looking
at me blatantly.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
No no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
From Mars Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm only talking about what
you're saying.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I'm just digesting that New Zealand first is the new
labor because it is actually a fascinating concept, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
It always you I mean you think of the mines
down south. They jumped in and made that happen. The
fisheries are jumping populous.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
They are a populist party and they sort of tap
into it, into a lot of that, and it's you know,
look at any of those issues. You know, it's it's,
it's and Winston. You know, we always just have the
saying of Winston didn't exist. You have to invent him,
you know, you need it. So here he goes and
he's he's still he's he's such a fascinating character.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Well can I can I just explain to our listeners
and they'll know this and the smart ones will know this.
But you would know Winston Peters better than anyone in
this building. I mean, you know him very well.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I've known along a long time. And he's and he's funny,
he sort of he contradicts. Yeah, you look at him
and you paint him into a certain type of thing.
You know, he's, he's, he's he's just such a he's
certain things. See, just just as a funny thing. We're
talking about this the other day. He hates bad language,
hates profanity. He hates profanity, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
He wouldn't like the Prime Minister call him well again,
That's exactly why, That's exactly why I was thinking that
he's a you know, he in some ways he's sort
of quite sort of a conservative old school high value,
you know, he believes and sort of values.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
You look at some of the stances have taken different
things that might sort of contradict that. But he's up
and no one's ever already done the book on Winston.
Which is the other thing too, there's there's a good
job for you, that would be a good I wouldn't
be able to write that.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
No, I don't think I come on, it's like.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
You know, oh yes, but he's he's he's he's been
such a defining you think all the way through he
was going to be the first Mari leader of the
National Party. That's you know, that's how big, you know,
when when back in the old days, after all the
way through, the constant in his healing politics, even after
you got t fed out for a while, has been
Winston Peters fascinating.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
So they're not the new Labor. They can't work with Labor.
I'm looking at Campbell Barrier. I mean, what do you think, Cambell,
do you think think that that if they Chris up
Can stood down and someone like Campbell Berry's now the
new leader Labor Party. I mean, do you reckon you
could work with Winston Peters?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Oh no, that's a very loaded question. I'm not going there. No,
I honestly think there's still a lot of water to
go unto the bridge. And as we head into next
year as polling, I know Winston says he never looks
at poles, but I think that.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
They do poll that counts.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
That's right, So they'll be seeing what that's thought that's
looking like and what their options are.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Friday face off with Campbell Berry and Mark Sainsbury. The
government has instructed Sport in New Zealand to scrap its
guidelines on transdender participation in sport, which directed sports bodies
to allow trans people to participate as the gender they
identify with. Now, individual sporting bodies will have to make
(10:52):
their own decisions on trans inclusion. Campbell Berry, where do
you sit with us?
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Like I was disappointed? To read this story yesterday.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
I think that these are simply guidelines in place to
support inclusive in community sport. They weren't doing it causing
any issues, and I had never even heard about this
until yesterday, until they had been scrapped. I think the
one thing that I'm confident in is at a grassroots level,
most organizations are doing their best to be inclusive already
(11:22):
and that will continue regardless of what some guidelines say.
Sitting within Sport, New Zealand, so so I'm kind of
confident it will not make much of a difference. But
at the same time, it just feels like an unnecessary thing.
That's just a bit of a stab at, you know,
sort of othering people. And I just don't like that.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
There was a problem. There wasn't a problem, was it.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Yeah, Well, I mean why didn't know?
Speaker 4 (11:46):
I never did?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I know the problem was within jail. And first, that's weird.
The problem mean, look, let's call it what it is.
This was due to the coalition agreement. They had it
in there, they had to do it. I think Mark
Mitchell had already said he was comfortable with the guideline.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
He didn't feel comfortable with it, and you could see
that on TV.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
And then had to turn around and do this swallow
a dead rat. And this comes back to what we're
just talking about before, and it's sort of this was
something as part of the coalition coalition agreement and engine
first wanted their win. Does it actually achieve anything? Not really.
I mean, look, I've got no problem how people identify
or what they do or whatever. Don't care. People can
do whatever they want. You do get some issues with
(12:24):
them in terms of transport, where you get someone who
is you know, competing saying women's sport, who manifestly has
an advantage from their physicality and things like that, you know,
And so that's just a question of unfairness and that
can be dealt with, but you.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Know, and most sports deal with that. You deal with
it on a case by case basis. You're too big,
you're too strong, you can't plan this competition, but we
want you to be involved and we want you to play.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Let's do it this week. Yep. Yeah, See, there's more
important things to worry about.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Quite frankly, yeah, I agree, so we should.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
But this was a I mean, this was part of
their thing, and this is and this is the way
it works It's like you see all these sort of
odd things that have sort of popped up, and all
stuff to do with the you know, the heated tobacco
and all. Yeah, it all comes back to that coalition agreement.
This is why they take so long, don't they, those
when all the negotiating, because people are putting in all
this different stuff. They want to tick the boxes for
these supporters.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
There's and I mean obviously another one that we haven't
got on our list to talk about. But I mean
now we're talking about it as the passports and the
changing of the you know, dropping the arterial on the passport.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I mean, do we need to do this stuff? It's
that it appeals to that sort of all the listener.
Isn't this terrible? Yeah? Okay, what difference does it actually make?
Funny thing?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Have you looked at your passport lately? Did you know
what was on the front of your passport? Either of
you you've just come back from a trip. Do you
look at your passport and see what's on the front
of it?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah? But the name, I mean that it's got the
toreo first and then but see it's like when I
come to head to z b A park, outside and
you hit that meter out there and it says, do
you want the instructions for parking in English or Toreo? Now,
the idea of doing that was, look, we just want
to make the language sort of far more just part
of everyday use and things like that. It's not is
(14:05):
it because people come along and I can only do
my parking in Toreo. But then but even I when
I first sort of was this a waste of time
putting that sort of stuff in? But it's all part
of that. What does Bose have been trying to move?
And this is where we get that tension. But between
people trying to make Toreo just part of our every
day I mean, we all use a lot of a
lot of Terreo now if we can, if we can
(14:27):
just even simple little words and different stuff like that.
But some people get sort of frightened of it. Does
somehow it's overtaking our culture. Well, it is our culture
quite frankly.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Do you do Lower Heart have today or on their
parking meters?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Good question. I don't think we're that advance. You've got
new parking meters in here, so you know where we
keep those costs down in Lower hearts.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, of course, you know, but no, no, I.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Don't think we do. But obviously we've embraced today wherever
we can. And I think Mark summed it up perfectly.
That is actually embracing our culture. It's also going off
where a lot of young people are out of learning today.
You know, classes still continue to go through the roof.
I know people can't get into many classes because they're overbooked.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So yeah, it's a wonderful thing, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I have we just telling our newsroom this morning that
I have a young granddaughter. She's not studying today. She
just does it through school. You know, she does our
grace and today when we have people over for dinner
and we do a great girl, you know, and it's beautiful.
It's beautiful. I don't think there's a dry eye when
she finishes. And we love it. And yet we want
a bloody knocket all the time, don't we.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah. Yeah, Look, it's funny. But as I said, you
still find yourself somehow. I sort of conflicted sometimes with
different things that sort of just your sort of reaction
reaction to it. When I went to University Neck in
nineteen seventy six, I did today it was really unusual.
Then it was only a girlfriend. Then it was interested,
but it was really really always about the girlfriend. It
(15:57):
was always about the girlfriend. And there was a great
guy called Rua Bristow who was running the course and
he was absolutely fantastic. But I just think back to
then it was such a you're doing what you know?
It seems such a strange thing to do, and just
how things have evolved.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, I wonder, and I've got to go to an
ad break, but I want you to ponder and wonder
if the Coalition government might try and change our national anthem.
Just a thought, it says Friday face Off. Yeah, break in,
isn't it. I mean, you know they're getting rid of
everything today. I mean you know you have to.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Sing the English part first and then around. Well, I
don't even want to think about that.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
I'll have a little heart palpitations about the text I'm
going to receive over the next ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And my producers looking at me and.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Say, go to an ad break now, please, Friday face
Off for camp Berry and Mark Sainsbury homelessness, Let's talk
about the rough sleepers in Wellington. It's up twenty four
percent in the last twelve months, according to the government's
latest report on homelessness. Now, Mark Sainsbury, I'm going to
start with you. You know, you're a man about town.
You walk the streets, you drive that big bloody American
(17:00):
tank around town. I mean, is homelessness a problem area?
Is it a beat up by a certain few people?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Look, I tell you, Anna Dundling, I think it is
a problem, especially around My wife's got a law practice
in kill Bernie. You know, kill Bernie's bad and kill
Bernie is really really bad. And I was trying to
just keep thinking about this and looking at all the
figures and are saying, what they've got one hundred and
forty one people sleeping rough from January to March an,
I think, can we not look after one hundred and
(17:28):
forty one people? Why is this problem so insurmountable? Now?
People say, look, there are some people who for whatever
reason adopt that lifestyle. They aren't necessarily you know, but
there's just be a small percentage of the number of
people who choose to live on the streets. I don't
think as large. But even if you say, look, we've
got less than one hundred and fifty people are sleeping rough,
(17:49):
why can't we take care of that.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
It's mental health an issue here because I talk about
it whenever we talk about it in the show, I
bring up the fact that there's no poori Rospital anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
No, remember there was that great movie years ago. We're
going to get people out into the community. We're not
going to silo them and halfway house halfway houses. Well,
in actual fact, they need some sort of help and
support and things like that. You know, I think it's
you know, how we treat how most vulnerable citizens as
the true measure of a society.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
And you know what, if you want me and I've
our Famili's had a business in Kilbernie for at least
twelve or thirteen years. If you really want to understand
where Kilbernie's gone down with is the amount of halfway
houses are around that area. And that's the reason Campbell Berry.
We had a lovely caller on our show. She just
turned eighty. I actually sang a happy birthday eighty one.
(18:35):
She actually turned I think, well eighty to eighty one.
And she said that she lives where she lives in
lah Hute is opposite where some people live on the streets. Now,
I never thought this was a problem in Lahhart. Obviously
it's a problem for you as well.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
It is to a certain extent. We don't have the
same sorts of numbers as Wellington City, and I would
say that knowing the number of the people who choose
to be out on the street, they aren't necessarily homeless
as well. In all cases, what we find is actually
those who are truly homeless that's often hidden. They're in car,
they're in garages, overcrowded homes, you know, you know, we
(19:11):
consider that homeless if you're in basically a situation which
isn't sustainable. So yeah, there's actually very few who are
actively on the streets. I would say less than ten
because we do do a lot of work with them.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
What do you do? What do you do different to
Wellington because.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
I would say that it's just very different.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
So your biggest cities were more is going on is
often going to attract a higher level of street homelessness.
For us, I suppose the numbers are relatively low, so
we are able to probably intervene a bit easier and
try to provide those wrap around services the challenges. Sometimes
we do that and then they'll often leave and maybe
come into Wellington City or other parts of the country.
(19:52):
So it is challenging it that really sharpend to find
the solutions when there's mental health, there's addiction issues as well.
But what I would say is that the numbers have
been relatively stagnant in total in the HUT over the
last five years. So we still continue to have that
same housing shortage where people like I say, are not
(20:12):
necessarily on the street, but an overcrowded homes or garages
or accommodation, which this isn't suitable.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Mark Are we doing enough? Look obviously not, because don't
we supposedly have a rental glutt in Wellington at the moment,
you know, an oversupply. Yet we can't find sort of
homes for homes of people. And there's all sorts. It's
not just a simple thing as cameras. There's all sorts
of other issues. And mental health is the obviously is
(20:39):
that there's the big one behind a lot of us.
But I just keep coming down to we're not dealing
with thousands of people. You know, this is a solvable problem,
and I think it says something about ourselves as to
how we do it. But yeah, certain places and like
Kilbernie has been getting they're getting real problems. And if
you own a business there and things like that, that's
another that's another issue.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Well you, I mean, how often have you walked down
Kilbernie the streets of Conan. We're centralizing on Kilbernie. But
you know you can walk down past your wife's law
practice now and see to lease to lease to least
to least. Yet ten years ago you paid key money
to get a shop there.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, yeah, look it's yeah, fible you hope. So look,
it has to be. It has to be. And I
wonder too whether our attitude to homelessness. Remember Blanket Man,
you know, and Blanket Man became a sort of a character,
a legend, a legend and yet an actual fact. What
he was is he epitomized a sort of a problem
(21:34):
that we didn't think of that as I was and
this terribles on the street. He was this almost entertaining character,
and I think that influenced a bit of stuff as
well as how we looked at it.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Friday face Off, Mark Sainsbury and Campbell Berry Campbell. We're
going to start with you on this one. The government
has introduced legislation to force councils to get back to
basics and remove the four well Being provisions from Local
Government Act. Is this the right move from government and
what does it actually mean to you as Lower Heart
City council.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I've got to say that when I this announcement from
the government, I've been around in local government now long
enough to remember back in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen when
John Keeley government did the exact same thing they removed
the four well Beings. I actually looked at a press
release from back then and they use the same language
as what they're using now, get back to basics, don't
worry about all this other stuff. And I can tell
(22:26):
you you know what happened back then. Between twenty twelve
and I think twenty nineteen or eighteen when Labor brought
it back in, nothing changed. Councils continued to do what
they do. This is all politics and frankly it might
be a waste of time when there is a genuine
funding and financing crisis for councils across the country and
how they actually grapple with the cost of infrastructure and
(22:49):
the likes so frustrating. In my mind, it's the wrong
conversation and actually we should talk about something more substantive.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Do you actually feel sometimes that their lack of ability
to change the economy now they're putting back onto the
councils because they're an easy kicking more, aren't they? The
rates are keeping going up and you know you're affecting
inflation rates for the whole of country. So is it
easy targeting the councils?
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Oh, it's very easy, I would say.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
You know, when you're walking down the street, it's much
easier to point out, you know, something that's wrong for
pothole or a leaking pipe versus walking through, you know,
a corridor in a hospital and finding the black mold.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
So, so councils are always, I think, going to be
easy targets on that front.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I would say, we don't always get it right. There's
a lot that could be done better, and we need
to look at ourselves as well, but there's just this
constant attack is helping no one.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Hey tell me something, if they remove all these well
being clauses, what differences are going to make for you? Ze?
What difference was zero?
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Absolutely zero? Nothing will change.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Matt.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
What do you think when you saw Tory Farnel come
out and you would have seen the instagram saying, well
this is going to put well, you know we might
not be able to have well Cuba do, but gone,
what do you think.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Well, there's a real feeling around at the moment as
a lot of people think, you know, all councilors are
wastrells and blowing all our money. And I tell you,
I know, when my rates went up in Wellington from
sort of six hundred and something to nine hundred and something,
you get sort of that's something monthly.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I'm going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, got
And at the same time you've got a leader saying
your properties dropped twenty five percent in value.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
So people have a real hostility I think around those
things towards council and we will get filled up with
you know, the sort of all there's these wasteful spending
and the and the must haves as opposed to want
to have. But I really like things like Cooper Dooper
and and there's certain things because we don't want Wellington
to be this boring place. You need to be able
(24:44):
to protect some of those cultural events and things like that.
But look, there's a there's a real mood around at
the moment. Over you know, things are tight everyone you
as a business owneror no. Next you know, it's tough.
It's really hard. So I think the councils are easy targets,
but some of them set for lower hut, of course,
which is run under the benign leadership. But there is
(25:05):
that sort of sense that you know, we're thinking when
we look at Wellington and the water a shuesion and
go what the hell is going on? So there is
a mood. They lap up the sort of stuff and
the government's going, yeah, get sensible, but do they actually
mean it? Are they actually going to do anything? Does
this actually achieve anything?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I know this not on our list to talk about,
but I'm sure you both got experiences and I really
wanted to get an opportunity to ask you because Tapapa
has been named in the top one percent of international
you know, by trip Advisors, and you know the success
rate of ninety seven percent where people go in. They've
got four hundred and something thousand overseas people going in
a year, a million people going through. You came well,
(25:41):
I mean, I know that it's not in your area,
but it's part of our region. I mean and when's
the last time you went into Tapapa.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Oh, that would have been I'd probably go there regularly
for events, but to actually visit Tipuppa with visitors probably
well two three months ago.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Oh, so it's impressive.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
It's the go to if we have international friends come over.
All the likes so you know, absolutely to Papa's always
on the list.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Did you realize that it's so damn good? Do you
think when you walk in there with people, you go, God,
this is good.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Well, I suppose having gone there probably a thousand times.
It's being the youngest that I don't quite have that
view of it. But certainly those I taken are blown away.
They think it's fantastic and it is good. I think
when you compare it to other museums around the world,
it's pretty up there.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yeah, mars Ange remains. The last time you went there
about three weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
I went to the gift shop, Nick, I went to
the gift shop to get some of the birthday present.
I love museum gift shops and things. It is a
fantastic gift. You've met them. The cafe.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Everyone keeps telling me how good the cafe is.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
And I've been an there in ages, and I was
bitten different last time. It was just some time ago.
But like Gamble, I've been there a lot of times
doing for events and things like that. But everyone I
know who have taken there is whenever we have visitors come,
they all want to go to the path or they've
read about it. They all come back with a really
positive thing on it. So I think it's something we've
s done. We sort of take a bit for granted.
(27:04):
We don't actually realize just how good it is until
suddenly someone else comes in, like trip Advisor and says,
you know, this is in the top one percent in
the world. That we suddenly realized we've got something in
our own backyard which is really good. But well, I
had one hundred percent positive from visitors dropped off there.
They love it.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Yeah, museum you got in the lower heart the best
regional museum in the Country's got to give it a plug.
Just an example though, of something that often flies under
the radar, and it's it's a fantastic asset that we've
got as well.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Right, Can I just quickly tell you that I dropped
someone about a month or two months or three months ago,
offered to Papulay said, can you I'll bring you when
I'm finished, and you know I'd be about an hour,
an hour and a half. Went to work, did my
dog about three hours, Lady Raimi, So I'm ready to
be picked up. Went down to pick a up and
you know, this is a very well known, respected New
Zealand athlete lives overseas. He opened the door and my
(27:58):
car and sat down and he looked tired and went
looked at him.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
What's up?
Speaker 3 (28:01):
He goes, mate, that is impressive. Oh, that's what he
said to me. I went, and we've got in our
own backyard. Yeah, who was It was Stephen Kearney. Someone
just asked me the rugby league player.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
He said that was impressive and he would have seen
a few things. He would have seen I lived into
Nashley for his life. That's what he said. That was impressive.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
This is the thing, right, I mean absolutely is Council's
role to make sure the foundations of our cities and
towns are in good shape one hundred percent. That needs
to be the priority. No one questions that. But at
the same time, people don't go to places because they've
heard about the new water pipes that they've put in.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
They go there for these.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Different attractions and experiences, so it has to be in
the mix. I think the problem councils have, of course
is again they only in most cases have rates to
be able to fund the services that they've got. Need
to open up the toolbox to look at different options
really really quickly.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Can I just talk to you because I hither duper
cl and changed my mind on this. I've been really
axe grinding my axe on the butter prices right when
I first saw it. Thirteen dollars for the normal butt
container of butter that I get, So I've really been
concerned by it. Fonterrara Serious CEO Miles Hurrel met with
the politicians of Parliament this week, including Finance Minister Nicola Willis.
(29:23):
Now we know that she's got a background of volunteer.
We didn't expect anything to happen. Butter brices have risen
by sixty percent in the last twelve months, Campbell, Is
this a problem or do we just have to put up.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
With it and live with it?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
I mean, I've got to say, I mean I under
sad people's frustrations. The cost of living has gone through
the roof no doubt about it. But we do need
to be real in regards to the market that we
operate in and how we exploit it overseas. I mean,
I do believe that because I think, let's not try
kid people, and this is thing politicians like to be
able to go it. Summons you to my office and
(29:56):
We're going to sort it out to make it look
like I'm doing something achieves nothing.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
You're a farmer, Nick, and I say to you, hey, Nick,
good on you. You. We love all that milk you
dropping off to make all this butter, but we want
to be able to supply it to the local people here.
So will you take a cut in what you're getting
so we can sell it cheap.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
You know what, if they came to me and said,
you run a cafe in Kilbernie, there's two schools that
need five lunches for people that don't have money, can
you provide it free? I'll be saying, yes, sir, Can
I help my community? So the farmer's damn well could
help us a little bit. I think they're make it
enough money. The Friday, Okay, it's my favorite time of
(30:36):
the week now Lower hut Mere, Campbell, Barry and broadcast
to Mark Hainsbury. Just before we go to Hots and Knots,
Can I just ask you quick, quick, quick question, Campbell, Barry.
Have you met up with Andrew Little in the last
couple of weeks A few weeks.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Not the last couple of weeks. I have met with
him and spoken to him a couple of times on
the phone, just around some of the sort of regional
issues that are going on, particularly the new watering to Tea.
So he's had some questions on that and suddenly it's
some really good conversations.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Okay, Hots and Knots, come on, Campbell, give us your
hots and knots.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
So hot would absolutely have to be the Saints, you know,
playing to the crowd here. But it was a fantastic
result obviously, so so well onto the team and doing
Wellington proud. Not I would have to be David Seymour.
Any politician who calls over one hundred thousand kiwis drop kicks.
(31:26):
I just don't like that, and I think that it's
that type of rhetoric that again and so just it
just creates a divide and I just it's just unhelpful
and it needs to stop.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, they're creating a divide is a great line. I
love that we don't need to create a divide when
we're all swimming against the tide trying to get there?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Are we?
Speaker 5 (31:43):
That's right?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
And we've seen what's happened overseas, why would we want
to follow in some of the divisiveness that's happening in there.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Mark Sainsbury, give us your hots and knots.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I want to start with the knots and the knots says.
I've got a friend of mine at the moment, Ruth
magic woman. But she's got Bell ken So and is
in Tea among A Hospice and she is strong, incredibly strong.
She's hung on a lot longer than we even thought possible.
But what is so hot is the Tea among A Hospice.
What a fantastic not just a fantastic facility, the people there.
(32:15):
Until people go through this and realize just the just
the sheer magic of some human beings, the care and
consideration and how they've looked after her has just been
mind blowing. And they still do it, and the army
of volunteers you come in and keep that place going.
I got involved last year with their sort of fundraising lunch,
which was one of the best events I think I've
(32:35):
ever been to. You know, it was none of the
flash hairy stuff, was good, honest local people there who
are at a reason to be there, and tea among
the hospice I think is a duel in the crown
for lower hut game. I think it's just and the people.
I just cannot praise them highly enough. And I think
that's my hot for the week. And you obviously have
experience with it too.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Biddy, who is the chief executive the amazing thirty seven years.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
With the hostel.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Yes, she's actually just recently said that she's stepping down
at the end of the year. Twenty five years the
chief executive. Credible amount of service.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Well, thank you both for coming and it's lovely to
see you both. Campbell Berry. Hopefully we'll get you into
the show before you, you know, in the last couple
of weeks, and have a bit of a chat about.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Your your time and Frank with your neck. We'll be good.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, we could have a chat. Mark Sainsbury always good
to catch up. Mark and I worked together when I
was about fifteen and he was about thirty. No, no,
except you were the boss seven but I'm always the
boss Mark, get that right.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday face off with Goodovic Property Management, a better rental
experience for all.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Visit dot co dot In's head start joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Friday face Off this week is Lower Hut Mayor Campbell Barry.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Good morning, Campbell, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Haven't made up your mind yet? Day We just chatted
before we went on here. You don't know what you're
going to do. You're unemployed. You might be on the
doll the doll numbers are going up.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
I might have to go to McDonald's or something like that.
You know, that's my first job.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
That'll be a good job.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
That's not that's the nominations closed. Is it not too
late to change your mind? No?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I definitely made my mind up, So having lots of
coffees at the moment and sit a deadline of probably
September to workout exactly what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
For those that didn't know, and I'm sure there'll be
one or two our listeners that didn't know, we bring
you up to date. Campbell's not a run to become
mayor of lot even though you know the powers of
b let's quickly talk about this because we haven't got
on our list. Mark Shamesbury, by the way, good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Good morning Nick.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
The powers of Bee of all the councils have got
together and have been listening to the show of it
and realized that the malgamation's back on the on the
talking point.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
Yeah they have.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I think it shows that we're at a point where
we need to seriously consider reorganization. I've said publicly now
that I think we should have one council for the
metropolitan area. I think it should be a unitary authority,
set up a Wellington Transport Authority to deal with public
transport that alongside the new Water Entity. Then go to
the Prime Minister and the letter of the Opposition, get
them to sign an agreement where they also give you
(01:49):
some different revenue options as well.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, I mean it's interesting that it's taken so damn long.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I mean we all.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Mark's nodding his head as you talk here. It's not
on our list, but I mean, I mean, realistically, when
all the CEOs are getting together, we've been talking about
it on the show for four years.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It's time. Well, I was chatting to make this small.
He is going, Look, I don't understand this. Why do
we need separate planning places in every council? I mean,
surely all those things should be There's lots of reasons
for efficiency and I just don't know what that we
get that parochial thing, you know, people, I don't want
it changed. I want to stay as this. But you
just look at it makes sense, doesn't it. I mean
(02:25):
you have to look at sort of unifying so the council.
Is there anyone really against it?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I mean Guppy sat on the fence for a bit,
but he's changed his mind.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
He said it's okay. I believe.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I don't want to put words in Wayne's mouth, but
I think he's mellowed a bit. Anita Baker's been always
for it. Tory Farno, you yeah, are we all changing now?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
I think that the view when you talk to people
on the street has changed significantly in the last ten years.
I think they can see the financial pressures that councils
are under. They can see the benefit that Auckland has
had from having one voice in regards to getting things
done with government. Albeit it's not perfect up there. So
I think the time is right. Will be interesting to
see what we get back in our referendum poll which
(03:09):
we're holding to say, and you are doing that up, Yeah,
that's right, yep, yep. So I think they will give
us a good gauge of where people are at.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Right, Okay, let's move on.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I mean that was me pulling that one out of
my backside because it's something that I'm very passionate about.
And I saw that the CEOs, just for those people
that didn't really get to go, the CEOs of the
four cities have got together and had a bit of
a chat about the whole idea and had a planning
planning meeting about it. Apparently, according to something I read,
the government has announced changes to the election rules ending
(03:38):
enrollment on election day. Some about one hundred and ten
thousand people did this last election, Mark Sainsbury. Is this
as bad as labor as claimed or does it actually
make perfect sense?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
You can look, you can understand even I listened to
old David Seymour. You know, peoplesh if they can't be
bothered getting off, they're asked to go and roll, you know,
they don't deserve their vote sort of thing. But voting
is such an important and important right that any meet
measure you start taking to cut back people's access to it. Yeah,
you should be able to get your act together and
you should have been rolled well before the election. But
(04:14):
you know they're saying odds might take an extra week
to get the results, and well, look how long Winston
held us up for after numerous elections.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Does that really make that much more? Would it make
any difference? I mean, you're a political guy. Would that
make any difference? If we're the voting was all or
we had all the votes, would that speed things up?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
With Winson? No? No, beaus Winston's thing was was not sure. Well,
he always says we're going to wait till we see
the final result and everything like that. But quite often
with Winston it's just the minutiae of the negotiations and
what sort of deal and those things. You've seen some
of those things drag on for weeks and weeks and weeks.
You're right to vote, I think is just so important
that any effort to sort of starts cutting that back.
(04:52):
And let's face it, they probably figure most of the
people in roll late are more likely to be left voters.
All those sort of things point to that. So don't underestimate.
There's a lot of self interesting.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
You reckon, there's a bit of cynic I reckon. Yeah, okay,
camill Berry, you're looking not in your head listening to Mark.
What are your thoughts on this? Is this the right
wings trying to get more votes or do you think
it's actually we should actually get off our backside and
we should enroll far before the elections. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
I don't know what their intentions are, but it is
clear that you know, people who vote later more likely
to vote left. So I'm a bit of a cynic
around what that looks like as well. I think when
it comes to elections, in voting, there should be a
level of consensus with any significant changes, and we should
always err on the side of enabling more people to vote,
as simple as that. I think this is a disappointing change.
(05:43):
As Mark said, I would say it's more down to politicians,
and one in particular who is more likely to delay,
you know, the form formation of a government. The last election, yes,
it did take a while to get the final results,
but we knew where it was heading. It was Winston
who held that up.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
But that could be worse next election. Let's be fair
couldn't it. I mean, you know, with another member of
the coalition being a little bit more power from pumping
his chest up a bit more now. I mean, it's
not going to be an easy fix either way left
or right next election, is it.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Well, that's an MMP environment, right. I mean we're actually
quick in comparison to some of the other MMP countries.
I think Germany months six months or so to form
their government. So there is the reality of the type
of system we've got it.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You've also got this weird situation in this next election.
That's why the polls are so interesting. Next because we've
already heard Winston going, well, I don't care, I'm not
going with Labor next election. The Greens, you know, are
never going to go with National. So you used to
have this sort of contestable thing of where's it going
to go, who can pull on the support and all
that sort of stuff, whereas this next time round, everyone
(06:47):
at this stage has said, this is our non negotiating position.
We're not going to spport the side. We're not gonna
spport that side. So it's going to be a simple
left right vote.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I mean, can I come to again? Because that this
makes it really interesting for me. You know, that means
labor only chance is if they form a coalition with
Greens and to party marriage. Now that's a hard sell
for anyone, So that does that disadvantage labor.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Oh look, I think there's a bit of water to
go unto the bridge. As we get closer to the election,
it will be interesting to see where people start to
position themselves. You know, there has been some softening from
Chriss Sipkins around working working with Winston Peters in comparison
to before the last election.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Let's see where it heads.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Even though Winston's easy won't work with him.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, but we saw change before an election once before
and with big results, didn't we.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
Yeah that's right.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I mean, let's be perfectly honest about it. I mean
people are already coming out and saying that New Zealand
First are the new Labor because they're trying to keep
people in work and trying to keep jobs going. You know,
Stuartness came out and said it. But you know people
are joined in the conversation, haven't they. You're both looking
at me blatantly.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
No no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
From Mars Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm only talking about what
you're saying.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I'm just digesting that New Zealand first is the new
labor because it is actually a fascinating concept, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
It always you I mean you think of the mines
down south. They jumped in and made that happen. The
fisheries are jumping populous.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
They are a populist party and they sort of tap
into it, into a lot of that, and it's you know,
look at any of those issues. You know, it's it's,
it's and Winston. You know, we always just have the
saying of Winston didn't exist. You have to invent him,
you know, you need it. So here he goes and
he's he's still he's he's such a fascinating character.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Well can I can I just explain to our listeners
and they'll know this and the smart ones will know this.
But you would know Winston Peters better than anyone in
this building. I mean, you know him very well.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I've known along a long time. And he's and he's funny,
he sort of he contradicts. Yeah, you look at him
and you paint him into a certain type of thing.
You know, he's, he's, he's he's just such a he's
certain things. See, just just as a funny thing. We're
talking about this the other day. He hates bad language,
hates profanity. He hates profanity, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
He wouldn't like the Prime Minister call him well again,
That's exactly why, That's exactly why I was thinking that
he's a you know, he in some ways he's sort
of quite sort of a conservative old school high value,
you know, he believes and sort of values.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
You look at some of the stances have taken different
things that might sort of contradict that. But he's up
and no one's ever already done the book on Winston.
Which is the other thing too, there's there's a good
job for you, that would be a good I wouldn't
be able to write that.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
No, I don't think I come on, it's like.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
You know, oh yes, but he's he's he's he's been
such a defining you think all the way through he
was going to be the first Mari leader of the
National Party. That's you know, that's how big, you know,
when when back in the old days, after all the
way through, the constant in his healing politics, even after
you got t fed out for a while, has been
Winston Peters fascinating.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
So they're not the new Labor. They can't work with Labor.
I'm looking at Campbell Barrier. I mean, what do you think, Cambell,
do you think think that that if they Chris up
Can stood down and someone like Campbell Berry's now the
new leader Labor Party. I mean, do you reckon you
could work with Winston Peters?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Oh no, that's a very loaded question. I'm not going there. No,
I honestly think there's still a lot of water to
go unto the bridge. And as we head into next
year as polling, I know Winston says he never looks
at poles, but I think that.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
They do poll that counts.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
That's right, So they'll be seeing what that's thought that's
looking like and what their options are.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Friday face off with Campbell Berry and Mark Sainsbury. The
government has instructed Sport in New Zealand to scrap its
guidelines on transdender participation in sport, which directed sports bodies
to allow trans people to participate as the gender they
identify with. Now, individual sporting bodies will have to make
(10:52):
their own decisions on trans inclusion. Campbell Berry, where do
you sit with us?
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Like I was disappointed? To read this story yesterday.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
I think that these are simply guidelines in place to
support inclusive in community sport. They weren't doing it causing
any issues, and I had never even heard about this
until yesterday, until they had been scrapped. I think the
one thing that I'm confident in is at a grassroots level,
most organizations are doing their best to be inclusive already
(11:22):
and that will continue regardless of what some guidelines say.
Sitting within Sport, New Zealand, so so I'm kind of
confident it will not make much of a difference. But
at the same time, it just feels like an unnecessary thing.
That's just a bit of a stab at, you know,
sort of othering people. And I just don't like that.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
There was a problem. There wasn't a problem, was it.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Yeah, Well, I mean why didn't know?
Speaker 4 (11:46):
I never did?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I know the problem was within jail. And first, that's weird.
The problem mean, look, let's call it what it is.
This was due to the coalition agreement. They had it
in there, they had to do it. I think Mark
Mitchell had already said he was comfortable with the guideline.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
He didn't feel comfortable with it, and you could see
that on TV.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
And then had to turn around and do this swallow
a dead rat. And this comes back to what we're
just talking about before, and it's sort of this was
something as part of the coalition coalition agreement and engine
first wanted their win. Does it actually achieve anything? Not really.
I mean, look, I've got no problem how people identify
or what they do or whatever. Don't care. People can
do whatever they want. You do get some issues with
(12:24):
them in terms of transport, where you get someone who
is you know, competing saying women's sport, who manifestly has
an advantage from their physicality and things like that, you know,
And so that's just a question of unfairness and that
can be dealt with, but you.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Know, and most sports deal with that. You deal with
it on a case by case basis. You're too big,
you're too strong, you can't plan this competition, but we
want you to be involved and we want you to play.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Let's do it this week. Yep. Yeah, See, there's more
important things to worry about.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Quite frankly, yeah, I agree, so we should.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
But this was a I mean, this was part of
their thing, and this is and this is the way
it works It's like you see all these sort of
odd things that have sort of popped up, and all
stuff to do with the you know, the heated tobacco
and all. Yeah, it all comes back to that coalition agreement.
This is why they take so long, don't they, those
when all the negotiating, because people are putting in all
this different stuff. They want to tick the boxes for
these supporters.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
There's and I mean obviously another one that we haven't
got on our list to talk about. But I mean
now we're talking about it as the passports and the
changing of the you know, dropping the arterial on the passport.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I mean, do we need to do this stuff? It's
that it appeals to that sort of all the listener.
Isn't this terrible? Yeah? Okay, what difference does it actually make?
Funny thing?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Have you looked at your passport lately? Did you know
what was on the front of your passport? Either of
you you've just come back from a trip. Do you
look at your passport and see what's on the front
of it?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah? But the name, I mean that it's got the
toreo first and then but see it's like when I
come to head to z b A park, outside and
you hit that meter out there and it says, do
you want the instructions for parking in English or Toreo? Now,
the idea of doing that was, look, we just want
to make the language sort of far more just part
of everyday use and things like that. It's not is
(14:05):
it because people come along and I can only do
my parking in Toreo. But then but even I when
I first sort of was this a waste of time
putting that sort of stuff in? But it's all part
of that. What does Bose have been trying to move?
And this is where we get that tension. But between
people trying to make Toreo just part of our every
day I mean, we all use a lot of a
lot of Terreo now if we can, if we can
(14:27):
just even simple little words and different stuff like that.
But some people get sort of frightened of it. Does
somehow it's overtaking our culture. Well, it is our culture
quite frankly.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Do you do Lower Heart have today or on their
parking meters?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Good question. I don't think we're that advance. You've got
new parking meters in here, so you know where we
keep those costs down in Lower hearts.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, of course, you know, but no, no, I.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Don't think we do. But obviously we've embraced today wherever
we can. And I think Mark summed it up perfectly.
That is actually embracing our culture. It's also going off
where a lot of young people are out of learning today.
You know, classes still continue to go through the roof.
I know people can't get into many classes because they're overbooked.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So yeah, it's a wonderful thing, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I have we just telling our newsroom this morning that
I have a young granddaughter. She's not studying today. She
just does it through school. You know, she does our
grace and today when we have people over for dinner
and we do a great girl, you know, and it's beautiful.
It's beautiful. I don't think there's a dry eye when
she finishes. And we love it. And yet we want
a bloody knocket all the time, don't we.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah. Yeah, Look, it's funny. But as I said, you
still find yourself somehow. I sort of conflicted sometimes with
different things that sort of just your sort of reaction
reaction to it. When I went to University Neck in
nineteen seventy six, I did today it was really unusual.
Then it was only a girlfriend. Then it was interested,
but it was really really always about the girlfriend. It
(15:57):
was always about the girlfriend. And there was a great
guy called Rua Bristow who was running the course and
he was absolutely fantastic. But I just think back to
then it was such a you're doing what you know?
It seems such a strange thing to do, and just
how things have evolved.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, I wonder, and I've got to go to an
ad break, but I want you to ponder and wonder
if the Coalition government might try and change our national anthem.
Just a thought, it says Friday face Off. Yeah, break in,
isn't it. I mean, you know they're getting rid of
everything today. I mean you know you have to.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Sing the English part first and then around. Well, I
don't even want to think about that.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
I'll have a little heart palpitations about the text I'm
going to receive over the next ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And my producers looking at me and.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Say, go to an ad break now, please, Friday face
Off for camp Berry and Mark Sainsbury homelessness, Let's talk
about the rough sleepers in Wellington. It's up twenty four
percent in the last twelve months, according to the government's
latest report on homelessness. Now, Mark Sainsbury, I'm going to
start with you. You know, you're a man about town.
You walk the streets, you drive that big bloody American
(17:00):
tank around town. I mean, is homelessness a problem area?
Is it a beat up by a certain few people?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Look, I tell you, Anna Dundling, I think it is
a problem, especially around My wife's got a law practice
in kill Bernie. You know, kill Bernie's bad and kill
Bernie is really really bad. And I was trying to
just keep thinking about this and looking at all the
figures and are saying, what they've got one hundred and
forty one people sleeping rough from January to March an,
I think, can we not look after one hundred and
(17:28):
forty one people? Why is this problem so insurmountable? Now?
People say, look, there are some people who for whatever
reason adopt that lifestyle. They aren't necessarily you know, but
there's just be a small percentage of the number of
people who choose to live on the streets. I don't
think as large. But even if you say, look, we've
got less than one hundred and fifty people are sleeping rough,
(17:49):
why can't we take care of that.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
It's mental health an issue here because I talk about
it whenever we talk about it in the show, I
bring up the fact that there's no poori Rospital anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
No, remember there was that great movie years ago. We're
going to get people out into the community. We're not
going to silo them and halfway house halfway houses. Well,
in actual fact, they need some sort of help and
support and things like that. You know, I think it's
you know, how we treat how most vulnerable citizens as
the true measure of a society.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
And you know what, if you want me and I've
our Famili's had a business in Kilbernie for at least
twelve or thirteen years. If you really want to understand
where Kilbernie's gone down with is the amount of halfway
houses are around that area. And that's the reason Campbell Berry.
We had a lovely caller on our show. She just
turned eighty. I actually sang a happy birthday eighty one.
(18:35):
She actually turned I think, well eighty to eighty one.
And she said that she lives where she lives in
lah Hute is opposite where some people live on the streets. Now,
I never thought this was a problem in Lahhart. Obviously
it's a problem for you as well.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
It is to a certain extent. We don't have the
same sorts of numbers as Wellington City, and I would
say that knowing the number of the people who choose
to be out on the street, they aren't necessarily homeless
as well. In all cases, what we find is actually
those who are truly homeless that's often hidden. They're in car,
they're in garages, overcrowded homes, you know, you know, we
(19:11):
consider that homeless if you're in basically a situation which
isn't sustainable. So yeah, there's actually very few who are
actively on the streets. I would say less than ten
because we do do a lot of work with them.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
What do you do? What do you do different to
Wellington because.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
I would say that it's just very different.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
So your biggest cities were more is going on is
often going to attract a higher level of street homelessness.
For us, I suppose the numbers are relatively low, so
we are able to probably intervene a bit easier and
try to provide those wrap around services the challenges. Sometimes
we do that and then they'll often leave and maybe
come into Wellington City or other parts of the country.
(19:52):
So it is challenging it that really sharpend to find
the solutions when there's mental health, there's addiction issues as well.
But what I would say is that the numbers have
been relatively stagnant in total in the HUT over the
last five years. So we still continue to have that
same housing shortage where people like I say, are not
(20:12):
necessarily on the street, but an overcrowded homes or garages
or accommodation, which this isn't suitable.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Mark Are we doing enough? Look obviously not, because don't
we supposedly have a rental glutt in Wellington at the moment,
you know, an oversupply. Yet we can't find sort of
homes for homes of people. And there's all sorts. It's
not just a simple thing as cameras. There's all sorts
of other issues. And mental health is the obviously is
(20:39):
that there's the big one behind a lot of us.
But I just keep coming down to we're not dealing
with thousands of people. You know, this is a solvable problem,
and I think it says something about ourselves as to
how we do it. But yeah, certain places and like
Kilbernie has been getting they're getting real problems. And if
you own a business there and things like that, that's
another that's another issue.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Well you, I mean, how often have you walked down
Kilbernie the streets of Conan. We're centralizing on Kilbernie. But
you know you can walk down past your wife's law
practice now and see to lease to lease to least
to least. Yet ten years ago you paid key money
to get a shop there.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, yeah, look it's yeah, fible you hope. So look,
it has to be. It has to be. And I
wonder too whether our attitude to homelessness. Remember Blanket Man,
you know, and Blanket Man became a sort of a character,
a legend, a legend and yet an actual fact. What
he was is he epitomized a sort of a problem
(21:34):
that we didn't think of that as I was and
this terribles on the street. He was this almost entertaining character,
and I think that influenced a bit of stuff as
well as how we looked at it.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Friday face Off, Mark Sainsbury and Campbell Berry Campbell. We're
going to start with you on this one. The government
has introduced legislation to force councils to get back to
basics and remove the four well Being provisions from Local
Government Act. Is this the right move from government and
what does it actually mean to you as Lower Heart
City council.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I've got to say that when I this announcement from
the government, I've been around in local government now long
enough to remember back in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen when
John Keeley government did the exact same thing they removed
the four well Beings. I actually looked at a press
release from back then and they use the same language
as what they're using now, get back to basics, don't
worry about all this other stuff. And I can tell
(22:26):
you you know what happened back then. Between twenty twelve
and I think twenty nineteen or eighteen when Labor brought
it back in, nothing changed. Councils continued to do what
they do. This is all politics and frankly it might
be a waste of time when there is a genuine
funding and financing crisis for councils across the country and
how they actually grapple with the cost of infrastructure and
(22:49):
the likes so frustrating. In my mind, it's the wrong
conversation and actually we should talk about something more substantive.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Do you actually feel sometimes that their lack of ability
to change the economy now they're putting back onto the
councils because they're an easy kicking more, aren't they? The
rates are keeping going up and you know you're affecting
inflation rates for the whole of country. So is it
easy targeting the councils?
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Oh, it's very easy, I would say.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
You know, when you're walking down the street, it's much
easier to point out, you know, something that's wrong for
pothole or a leaking pipe versus walking through, you know,
a corridor in a hospital and finding the black mold.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
So, so councils are always, I think, going to be
easy targets on that front.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I would say, we don't always get it right. There's
a lot that could be done better, and we need
to look at ourselves as well, but there's just this
constant attack is helping no one.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Hey tell me something, if they remove all these well
being clauses, what differences are going to make for you? Ze?
What difference was zero?
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Absolutely zero? Nothing will change.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Matt.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
What do you think when you saw Tory Farnel come
out and you would have seen the instagram saying, well
this is going to put well, you know we might
not be able to have well Cuba do, but gone,
what do you think.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Well, there's a real feeling around at the moment as
a lot of people think, you know, all councilors are
wastrells and blowing all our money. And I tell you,
I know, when my rates went up in Wellington from
sort of six hundred and something to nine hundred and something,
you get sort of that's something monthly.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I'm going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, got
And at the same time you've got a leader saying
your properties dropped twenty five percent in value.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
So people have a real hostility I think around those
things towards council and we will get filled up with
you know, the sort of all there's these wasteful spending
and the and the must haves as opposed to want
to have. But I really like things like Cooper Dooper
and and there's certain things because we don't want Wellington
to be this boring place. You need to be able
(24:44):
to protect some of those cultural events and things like that.
But look, there's a there's a real mood around at
the moment. Over you know, things are tight everyone you
as a business owneror no. Next you know, it's tough.
It's really hard. So I think the councils are easy targets,
but some of them set for lower hut, of course,
which is run under the benign leadership. But there is
(25:05):
that sort of sense that you know, we're thinking when
we look at Wellington and the water a shuesion and
go what the hell is going on? So there is
a mood. They lap up the sort of stuff and
the government's going, yeah, get sensible, but do they actually
mean it? Are they actually going to do anything? Does
this actually achieve anything?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I know this not on our list to talk about,
but I'm sure you both got experiences and I really
wanted to get an opportunity to ask you because Tapapa
has been named in the top one percent of international
you know, by trip Advisors, and you know the success
rate of ninety seven percent where people go in. They've
got four hundred and something thousand overseas people going in
a year, a million people going through. You came well,
(25:41):
I mean, I know that it's not in your area,
but it's part of our region. I mean and when's
the last time you went into Tapapa.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Oh, that would have been I'd probably go there regularly
for events, but to actually visit Tipuppa with visitors probably
well two three months ago.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Oh, so it's impressive.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
It's the go to if we have international friends come over.
All the likes so you know, absolutely to Papa's always
on the list.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Did you realize that it's so damn good? Do you
think when you walk in there with people, you go, God,
this is good.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Well, I suppose having gone there probably a thousand times.
It's being the youngest that I don't quite have that
view of it. But certainly those I taken are blown away.
They think it's fantastic and it is good. I think
when you compare it to other museums around the world,
it's pretty up there.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yeah, mars Ange remains. The last time you went there
about three weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
I went to the gift shop, Nick, I went to
the gift shop to get some of the birthday present.
I love museum gift shops and things. It is a
fantastic gift. You've met them. The cafe.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Everyone keeps telling me how good the cafe is.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
And I've been an there in ages, and I was
bitten different last time. It was just some time ago.
But like Gamble, I've been there a lot of times
doing for events and things like that. But everyone I
know who have taken there is whenever we have visitors come,
they all want to go to the path or they've
read about it. They all come back with a really
positive thing on it. So I think it's something we've
s done. We sort of take a bit for granted.
(27:04):
We don't actually realize just how good it is until
suddenly someone else comes in, like trip Advisor and says,
you know, this is in the top one percent in
the world. That we suddenly realized we've got something in
our own backyard which is really good. But well, I
had one hundred percent positive from visitors dropped off there.
They love it.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Yeah, museum you got in the lower heart the best
regional museum in the Country's got to give it a plug.
Just an example though, of something that often flies under
the radar, and it's it's a fantastic asset that we've
got as well.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Right, Can I just quickly tell you that I dropped
someone about a month or two months or three months ago,
offered to Papulay said, can you I'll bring you when
I'm finished, and you know I'd be about an hour,
an hour and a half. Went to work, did my
dog about three hours, Lady Raimi, So I'm ready to
be picked up. Went down to pick a up and
you know, this is a very well known, respected New
Zealand athlete lives overseas. He opened the door and my
(27:58):
car and sat down and he looked tired and went
looked at him.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
What's up?
Speaker 3 (28:01):
He goes, mate, that is impressive. Oh, that's what he
said to me. I went, and we've got in our
own backyard. Yeah, who was It was Stephen Kearney. Someone
just asked me the rugby league player.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
He said that was impressive and he would have seen
a few things. He would have seen I lived into
Nashley for his life. That's what he said. That was impressive.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
This is the thing, right, I mean absolutely is Council's
role to make sure the foundations of our cities and
towns are in good shape one hundred percent. That needs
to be the priority. No one questions that. But at
the same time, people don't go to places because they've
heard about the new water pipes that they've put in.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
They go there for these.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Different attractions and experiences, so it has to be in
the mix. I think the problem councils have, of course
is again they only in most cases have rates to
be able to fund the services that they've got. Need
to open up the toolbox to look at different options
really really quickly.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Can I just talk to you because I hither duper
cl and changed my mind on this. I've been really
axe grinding my axe on the butter prices right when
I first saw it. Thirteen dollars for the normal butt
container of butter that I get, So I've really been
concerned by it. Fonterrara Serious CEO Miles Hurrel met with
the politicians of Parliament this week, including Finance Minister Nicola Willis.
(29:23):
Now we know that she's got a background of volunteer.
We didn't expect anything to happen. Butter brices have risen
by sixty percent in the last twelve months, Campbell, Is
this a problem or do we just have to put up.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
With it and live with it?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
I mean, I've got to say, I mean I under
sad people's frustrations. The cost of living has gone through
the roof no doubt about it. But we do need
to be real in regards to the market that we
operate in and how we exploit it overseas. I mean,
I do believe that because I think, let's not try
kid people, and this is thing politicians like to be
able to go it. Summons you to my office and
(29:56):
We're going to sort it out to make it look
like I'm doing something achieves nothing.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
You're a farmer, Nick, and I say to you, hey, Nick,
good on you. You. We love all that milk you
dropping off to make all this butter, but we want
to be able to supply it to the local people here.
So will you take a cut in what you're getting
so we can sell it cheap.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
You know what, if they came to me and said,
you run a cafe in Kilbernie, there's two schools that
need five lunches for people that don't have money, can
you provide it free? I'll be saying, yes, sir, Can
I help my community? So the farmer's damn well could
help us a little bit. I think they're make it
enough money. The Friday, Okay, it's my favorite time of
(30:36):
the week now Lower hut Mere, Campbell, Barry and broadcast
to Mark Hainsbury. Just before we go to Hots and Knots,
Can I just ask you quick, quick, quick question, Campbell, Barry.
Have you met up with Andrew Little in the last
couple of weeks A few weeks.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Not the last couple of weeks. I have met with
him and spoken to him a couple of times on
the phone, just around some of the sort of regional
issues that are going on, particularly the new watering to Tea.
So he's had some questions on that and suddenly it's
some really good conversations.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Okay, Hots and Knots, come on, Campbell, give us your
hots and knots.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
So hot would absolutely have to be the Saints, you know,
playing to the crowd here. But it was a fantastic
result obviously, so so well onto the team and doing
Wellington proud. Not I would have to be David Seymour.
Any politician who calls over one hundred thousand kiwis drop kicks.
(31:26):
I just don't like that, and I think that it's
that type of rhetoric that again and so just it
just creates a divide and I just it's just unhelpful
and it needs to stop.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, they're creating a divide is a great line. I
love that we don't need to create a divide when
we're all swimming against the tide trying to get there?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Are we?
Speaker 5 (31:43):
That's right?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
And we've seen what's happened overseas, why would we want
to follow in some of the divisiveness that's happening in there.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Mark Sainsbury, give us your hots and knots.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I want to start with the knots and the knots says.
I've got a friend of mine at the moment, Ruth
magic woman. But she's got Bell ken So and is
in Tea among A Hospice and she is strong, incredibly strong.
She's hung on a lot longer than we even thought possible.
But what is so hot is the Tea among A Hospice.
What a fantastic not just a fantastic facility, the people there.
(32:15):
Until people go through this and realize just the just
the sheer magic of some human beings, the care and
consideration and how they've looked after her has just been
mind blowing. And they still do it, and the army
of volunteers you come in and keep that place going.
I got involved last year with their sort of fundraising lunch,
which was one of the best events I think I've
(32:35):
ever been to. You know, it was none of the
flash hairy stuff, was good, honest local people there who
are at a reason to be there, and tea among
the hospice I think is a duel in the crown
for lower hut game. I think it's just and the people.
I just cannot praise them highly enough. And I think
that's my hot for the week. And you obviously have
experience with it too.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Biddy, who is the chief executive the amazing thirty seven years.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
With the hostel.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Yes, she's actually just recently said that she's stepping down
at the end of the year. Twenty five years the
chief executive. Credible amount of service.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Well, thank you both for coming and it's lovely to
see you both. Campbell Berry. Hopefully we'll get you into
the show before you, you know, in the last couple
of weeks, and have a bit of a chat about.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Your your time and Frank with your neck. We'll be good.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, we could have a chat. Mark Sainsbury always good
to catch up. Mark and I worked together when I
was about fifteen and he was about thirty. No, no,
except you were the boss seven but I'm always the
boss Mark, get that right.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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