December 5, 2024 • 32 mins
It was revealed this week that members of Vision for Wellington, a group set up by prominent Wellingtonians to advocate for the city had been communicating with the Prime Minister and local government Minister about their launch - despite claiming to be apolitical. Do you believe the group when they say they don't have a political agenda?
Also, some government departments have scrapped their Christmas parties to save money. Is this reasonable, or just miserable?
To answer those questions, Infrastructure NZ CEO and former Porirua Mayor Nick Leggett and PSA assistant secretary Fleur Fitzsimons joined Nick Mills for Friday Faceoff.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at B dissecting the week sublime and ridiculous.
Friday faceoff with Quinovic Property Management, A better rental experience
for all called on eight hundred Quinovic on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Dozen starts by Sunday Friday Friday faceoff joining us this
week has infrastructured.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Muty On Chief Executive mclega. Good morning, Nicholas, Kora, Nicholas
and p is a assistant secretary flir for Simon the
union lady, don't stop me. I'm part of the union,
beautiful lover, remember that. Yeah you are that union person.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Yeah, happy to be not going to be running for.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Mere think someone's been texting me, so is she going
to run for mayor?
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Very lots to do in the union movement.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
So I just asked you a question.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
No, I'm not running the Bear of Wellington.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Did you see the way she slipped out of it?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
But like old habits die hard, right, I mean I
get it. That's just you used to answering questions.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I said that before you were on.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
It was very quick when you did ask her, when
you followed up to say she wasn't.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So yeah, I thought it was that she was thinking
about it.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
No, I just thought it's another opportunity to talk about
how important unions are.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Okay, And there's no point asking Nick. It's many times
I hear everywhere I go, Jesus, Nick Leggot would be
make amazing Mia and I go, yeah, someone's going to
find anyway.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
But I tried it as well. It's not like I,
you know, haven't I didn't give it a go so
and I just think the world moves on a bit
so And actually, you know, I think people are really
concerned about where Wellington's headed. But I think most people
can do something that without running for office. And I
think we'll talk about some of those issues today, which
(02:10):
we will.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
We will. Let's start with the city at the City
to See Bridge and the Michael Fowler Center. Iconic City
to See Bridge is set to be demolished after a
last attempt to save it failed at a council meeting yesterday.
But how now attentions turning to another landmark where people
are talking about demolition. It's proposed to the earthquake prone
Michael Fowler Center might be under the gun. Let's start
(02:32):
with you on this one, Fleur first on the City
to See bridge. Is this the right decision?
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I look, absolutely, it was earthquake prone and would have
cost more to delay it and may have even put
the new library opening at risk. But I also think
it's an interesting insight into how difficult it is to
make decisions in Wellington. Actually it was a very close vote,
which I think goes to show that those counselors have
lost trust in the advice that they are receiving, and
(02:59):
that's because of the debacle that was Wellington Airport. They
got changing in different advice throughout that whole debate and
now thus guessing it. On the face of it, it
seems a very simple decision. Demolish it, move on, Nick.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
This is what really upsets me through the new coalition
Gun We've got four more years to make decisions like this,
So the whole earthquake strength and rules have been changed
for four years. Couldn't we just sit back and wait
for a couple of years or two or three years.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
No, Look, I think I'm with Flair demolish the bridge.
I'm also of the view that it will improve the area.
It will improve the access to the water, to the
harbor and that it will be lighter and brighter and safer.
So look, I agree with the decision, but I do
(03:45):
want to say this. It is evidence for me yet
again that Wellington gets sucked into these binary yes or no,
you know, keep well demolish, and we don't lift our
faces up to the horizon and understand where it is
we need to go. This city lost people between one
(04:07):
census and the last census. We've had significant public service cuts.
There is you know that they have the housing markets
going backwards. We know that we're in a bit of
a funk. What we have to do is understand better
where we're going. These sort of decisions, and you think
about what's happening in the Botanical gardens as well and
the Michael Fowler Center this week. These sort of decisions
(04:28):
become easier when you've got a vision, you know what
you're about, you've got some confidence, and people can then
link together and work out, you know, in a more
of a sort of consensus way, where it is Wellington
needs to go, and how much it's going to cost
and who's going to pay for it as well. So
this was indicative to me of just a broader challenge
(04:52):
that we have here about making decisions and getting on
with things.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Flir What about the Michael Fowler Center.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Look, they have to take an evidence based approach to it.
It would be a terrible institution to lose. It actually
plays a really important role as a venue you for
things like graduations, for a number of shows that wouldn't
otherwise be able to come to Wellington Opera. That's right,
it's a it's a very important institution in Wellington and
they should go carefully when making a decision.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Do you think they will? Do you think they'll pull
it down?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
My instincts are no. But I'm not a structural engineer.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
No, Nick, do you think they? I mean, it's part
of our history, isn't it? Is it? I love it?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (05:33):
I mean that's what I mean about. If you had
an idea of what you're about, these decisions would become easier.
So you know that Michael fowlercentd have sort of fitted
into the fabric the last four decade fabric of what
makes Wellington what it is. You know, it is a
it is a big, a big sort of iconic building
(05:53):
on our horizon and it's a place where people gather
for know and come together. So yeah, I mean, look,
I think we should try and save it, but I
also think, you know, you look at the town Hall, Debarkle.
We are bitten here with massive costs, and I mean,
i'm I think we're on the road with the town hall. Fine, Taquina.
(06:16):
I think it's a good it's a good thing to
have as well, but actually we do have to be
choosy about what we keep. We need an auditorium style,
yeah we do, but this does seem to be a
lot of spaces and there's not.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Wellington's pretty short of view music.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
And it was only two fridays ago that we talked
all of them being fully.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
For example, we can't get big gigs. Pearl Jam couldn't
come to Wellington.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
No, no, but we don't.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
But we don't want to get rid of more venues
because we actually don't have a good medium sized venue
or a very large venue. But the thing is, I
think you're right about the town Hall. We don't want
to make the same mistakes there. If we knew what
we knew now about the town Hall, I don't think
it would be.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Never gone in ahead, never have gone ahead.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
No, I agree, No, No, that's it wouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Let's move on to why and how? I mean great segue.
Dorset City Council Chief Executive Matt Prosser has been appointed
the new Chief executive of Wellington City Council and will
start next year. He has no experience in local government
in New Zealand, is coming direct from the UK. Flur,
you would have been if you were still on council
part of that selecting him. You would have also been.
(07:25):
I'm trying to think of the guy's name that selective
we got from England last time. Kevin Lavery, of course,
thank you. Who was I think pretty damn good. I mean,
obviously got different opinions looking at body language.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
I thought he was good to.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, I thought he was good. But Flir obviously well,
I let her. I'll let Flur speak.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
No.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I mean, I just wish this new chief executive all
the very best. We really need him to do well.
He may just be the fresh pair of hands that
Wellington needs. I think there's something very special about the
role of a chief executive. You need to respect elected members,
you need to be a strong personality, but you also
need to leave space for the mayor to be the
(08:05):
mayor and it's a quite hard delicate balance for somebody
to get right. You need to work behind the scenes
to drive outcomes for Wellington without taking over, and it's
hard to get that right. But the challenges facing our
city are so big we really need him to get
that balance right and I really hope he does because
there needs to be a cultural shift in that council
(08:27):
to respect the mayor and respect counselors and give them
the advice they need to make good decisions, not second
guest decisions before they even get to the table.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Nick, I think this is really simple. CEO is a CEO,
so he runs the company. The mayor is like the
chairman of the board, so they are the front peed person,
but the business is done by the CEO. Am I
right or wrong? You've both had local bodies.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
Well, it's not a council, not a company. So I
think that's really important to and a chief executive. Their
job is to deliver the outcomes and the idea is
set up by the counsel and to spend the money
and on the resources of the council. Say you know
what's that they allocate. So yeah, it's really important. I mean,
(09:11):
and we have had this I do agree with Fleir.
We've had this issue in local government across New Zealand
where the role and the part of an elected member
has been diminished over time, and I think we've actually
unfortunately pulled them. But away from that that sort of
big picture, long termism we get we've sucked counselors down
(09:33):
into into sort of being micromanagers, and a good chief
executive will will will will separate those things out and.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Either if you have any problems with him being having
no experience whatsoever and no idea, no idea, culture, no idea.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
I think Wellington, like Flir said, Wellington needs a fresh
pair of eyes. We are we do have challenges here.
Somebody coming in from the outside who understands local government
and understands the political realm that they're going to be operating.
I mean this, this this individual will have run health
and education and doors, so he will have a lot
of experience across because you know, actually social issues. While
(10:11):
the council is not involved in a lot, well it
isn't housing. It's going to be really important to have
someone who understands those and particularly with the housing challenges
that we have here. I'm optimistic about this person.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Really, I really am flirt.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Yeah, no, totally. I mean he will need to understand
the special relationship with Munafenua and I would expect that
that would be one of his first meetings would be
to meet with Muno Fhenua and understand the special relationship
they have with the council, and I'm assuming that will
be the approach that the Council will take.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
It's been revealed that Dame Theresa Walsh, a member of
the supposedly a political vers of Vision for Wellington group,
had been keeping Christopher Luxel informed about when the group
would launch. In one text, lux and replied, love it now,
flirfit Simon's We've seen this. Do you think this group
is a political as a claim?
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Absolutely not. The claims of being a political a total rubbish.
Look at who is on that list. They all come
from a right wing background, they're all very wealthy and
they've been texting the National Party Prime Minister. I don't
mind this group getting together. Good on them. We should.
Everyone in there, in their homes and in cafes all
over Wellington is having the same kind of discussions they
(11:24):
are about their frustrations and visions for the city. But
to claim that they are a political is total rubbish,
and it actually will undermine their ability to be effective
because they've started out being deceptive.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Nicholas, you will have trouble arguing that point, wouldn't you?
Speaker 5 (11:43):
Why would you think I'd want to argue?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I just thought that you might because I reckon that
you might be part of this vision.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Was my name on the list? Now I'm certain they
ask you. No, they didn't, and I wouldn't have joined anyway,
to be.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Honest, because.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
There are a couple of people will shivers if you're not.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I'm not.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
There are a couple of names there I wouldn't want
to be associated with, frankly, and there are some very
good people on the list who have excellent an excellent
reputation for getting thing's done in Wellington. Look to me,
and flu will disagree with this potentially, but I think
what we need to govern Wellington is a good coalition
of the sensible left and the sensible right. And she's nodding,
(12:26):
so maybe she doesn'tsagree with that. And we are a
bit of a If you don't organize on either side
of the spectrum, you're a bit of a sort of
a one winged bird, and so I actually think that
they should be more focused on being organized and political
than trying to deny it. Otherwise they're not going to
end up anywhere. But what we do want, because you
(12:47):
know it's a local gun election year around the country
next year, we want good candidates to come forward, and
in Wellington that means a council of people who look
like the city, reflect the city. A lot of those
people are on the council at the moment. Actually, I
don't pour scorn on the current council because I actually
think it can get together. You look at the Shares discussion.
(13:07):
I've got a majority together and we got a decision.
So this idea of dysfunction is a little bit overblowing.
There are issues obviously, but those will I think be
dealt with and they will certainly be dealt with by
voters at the election. So yeah, I'm in vision Wellington.
I just think it needs to define more what it
is about. And as I said, it's a little bit
more of this. Tell us where we need to go,
(13:30):
tell us the issues that are important, tell us how
we can work together to get more jobs, better housing,
a bit more alive culture and get Wellington out of
the doldrums a bit.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Could Flir be responsible for screwing this up completely? Could
they put up somebody and then there are another person
that would run on their own accord, you know, like
a well known person that didn't wasn't part of it.
Could they split the vote and then Tory, if she
stands again, just comes through the middle again. I mean,
could that happen.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Well, we've got single transferable vote, so that is unlikely
to happen. What I think they're more likely to do
is help define the terms of the next mayoral election campaign,
and that's probably seems to be what they're trying to do.
What we're going to need to do when it comes
to the local body elections is what Nick says. We're
going to need to look at the people who are
there now and who have done well and have shown
(14:20):
an ability to think with an open mind and think
creatively about the problems the city is facing, as well
as consider whether there are some new people that we
need to add into the mix for good decisions for
the city. But the idea that we have a sort
of sensible less sensible, right, I think it's good, but
just saying sensible people acting in the best interest of
Wellington is what we need from a council, and with
(14:42):
good leadership from the CEO and the mayor, I think
we'll get there.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
And the thing is that people keep forgetting is that
we need people from all walks of life on the council.
We don't need it just to be the Chardonage Club
as I call them on a Friday afternoon. We need
people that are doing it tough and people that are
you know, you know, we need a mix of it.
That's what makes a councilor council, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Totally. And they also need to respect each other's perspective
and background.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
And help each other to achieve what each group needs.
The rich need us to keep the businesses going. The
poor need this to stay alive. How do we work together?
Isn't it quite simple?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:15):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
And actually, if you look around the world, the best
decision making bodies have a diversity of experience and background.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Have we got any hope?
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Yes, I've got lots of hope.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Have you flipped?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah? Absolutely. People are talking to me all the time
about wanting to talking about you.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Running for me. That's what they're talking about all the time.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
You're trying to fit Flair and I into jobs here today.
I mean, we just we just want to be part
of something good. And I don't know about you, fair,
but I just want to push good people into standing up.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So you know, I don't have no one. There's no
one sort of there or thereabouts at the moment, there's
no one.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
We've got a long time to run until the election.
If I recall Andy Foster did announce he was running
for his successful merial bit until the nominations closed. I mean,
it doesn't we don't have to know.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Now he had a certain Sir Peter Jackson helping him
out that I think might have made a bit of
a difference. And the success or non success of that
fit Simon's you're agreeing with me, We now get serious.
All Black CV Reese just back from the Northern Tour.
All Black Northern Tour, was granted a discharge without conviction
(16:21):
this week for willful damage. It's his second discharge after
being charge of assault against his former partner in twenty eighteen.
Nick Leggan, I want to start with you on this.
This is his second discharge without conviction. If he wasn't
an all black and he was just a twenty seven
year old from your old city potty tour. Do you
(16:42):
reckon he would have gone off of two discharges without conviction.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
No, No, I don't. I don't think he would have,
and I think it's something that we have to confront.
In fact, my not today is sort of on the
same topic, but slightly related to this topic. Look, we
do have to ask ourselves why people in high profile
positions often seem to get off and and get an
(17:07):
easier way forward. I'm a big believer that people should
be able to redeem themselves. I think the idea that
we lock people away and lock people up and throw
away the key is not something that I subscribe to.
But there also has to be consequence, particularly if it's
second time in a row. So it's a hard one
because I don't think anybody would expect to see this
(17:29):
individual's career ended. But it does appear that the consequences
are pretty light. The other thing that I noticed that
he has stopped drinking since this occurred, and that you know,
probably will go a long way if he can stick
to it. But yeah, I have a problem with the
(17:51):
two rules that I see evident in society, and I
guess it's public scrutiny like what we're doing now that
probably is the greatest consequence for people like this, and
you know, we do have to, I think, assess how
we approach this for people in high profile positions.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Flirford Simon, you've got a legal background. What did you
make of when you read this decision?
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Well, it is unusual, but it's unusual because he has
international obligations as part of his job, and other people
facing similar charges with international obligations are treated the same way.
So sure that is different because he's an all black,
and I understand how people would think that it's a
one rule for him and one rule for other people.
But I think it's the travel obligations that the court's
(18:38):
way up so and I don't think it's great. I
do think it's interesting that the fact that he's getting
help for his drinking problem is one of the factors.
And it's a shame that they're just it's actually a
tragedy that there isn't support for other people with drinking
another addiction problem, so that they could also get discharged
without conviction two or three times, which would help keep
(18:59):
their life on track.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Actually well, I'm going to tell you both a story
about someone that I know very well that is an
ex army guy. Right, He went home and saw someone
in his house trying to rob his house, and the
guy was trying to beat him up. So he fought
and left the guy in a bit of a mess.
So he went in front of the courts and the
(19:21):
judge said to him, because you should have known him better,
because you're an army trained I'm going to throw the
book at you and did so. So how does that
work because of his background and Sivu Reese, with a
hell of a profile, work the opposite way. Nick.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
I don't know, Nick, to be honest, it's a hard
one to answer when you don't have the sort of
you've just described something to us. But look, we you
know in first touched on and I'm going to talk
about it later, but I'll expand on it. But now
you know, we have too many young people going into
the correction system, and there's been a report out today
(20:01):
we are failing people under aged under twenty five. I
would much rather we were focusing on how to stop
them from getting there in the first place, or rehabilitate
them once they were part of the system. Why is
it we keep getting this wrong? There is significant evidence
to show that if you the earlier you intervene, the
more you invest earlier, the better it will be for
(20:24):
those individuals, for their funer and for society. And we
never get this stuff right, We never line the system up.
So it's making the you know, stopping people from getting
into trouble, and then when they are in trouble, we
don't invest in in their rehabilitation. So the point that
Flair made about actually, if you coul support people to
get off drinking drugs, young people particularly, you'd have a
(20:46):
much greater chance of keeping them outside the system and
get them on the road. So it like, let's ask
the wider questions about our society. Why are we so
poor at this? And yes, it is in all of
our interests and in the interest of the public purse
to actually keep people, you know, get keep people on
(21:07):
the straight and narrow earlier as early in life as well.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Wouldn't it show Flirt and this is kind of where
I gets to me. Wouldn't it show the kids that
are playing up that if an all black can go
and do get charged and go and do social work
or do some work or do some community based work
that that that's not good enough. Wouldn't it show them?
Speaker 4 (21:28):
No, I don't think that the evidence shows that it
works that way. I think actually what the evidence shows
is that providing wrap around support for those young people
and trying to get them back on track is the
way to go, and there are a lot of programs
in place to try and support them doing that. And
the sorts of oh, well, wouldn't they take a message
from that these young people aren't following this, and I don't.
(21:50):
Actually now, I don't know you.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
There I be the young kids that are actually going
in front of the courts and saying, well, that was me,
I'd be done.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
I don't envy the courts. Every judge takes this responsibility
very seriously. They weigh up all of the factors. They
think about the kids background, they think about what's gone
on for them, and they do try and come up
with sentences and outcomes which are not only proportionate, but
actually try and get people back on tracks. So there
is already a lot of that going on, and it's
(22:17):
a very difficult job for a judge to weigh up
these competing factors.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Friday face off with Nick Leggett and Flurford Simon's we
are New Zealand have got England twenty one for two,
remembering that we won the toss and ask them kindly
to bat. They are twenty one for two after eight over.
It's a very very good start. I want to talk
about cricket because does it actually get any bigger? Nick's
(22:42):
looking at me very plainly here? Does it actually get
any bigger than Wellington versus England at the Basin Reserve
here and Wearrington. I mean, this to me is the
pinnacle of cricket. It's mother Nation against foreigners us big
day Nick.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
I think it's fantastic. It's great for Wellington. No, I mean,
you don't have to be like a die hard fan
to know that this is the sort of thing that
makes Wellington a life at this time of year. And
it brings people, It brings international coverage. It makes people
feel alive when they're out with other Wellingtonians and other
people from around the country and around the world. I
(23:17):
think it's terrific.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
And you know, the.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Crowds were lining up this morning. We're using a great
you know, a great venue for Wellington. I just think
it's all good.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Did you see some of the shots going out You
wouldn't have because you have been here, but the shots
going out before the game of Wellington and the big
area shots. You know, we we do forget that we
are living in the most.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Beautiful dumming this place.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
We do, we do. It is the most beautiful city
in the world.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
I mean it's second to put it in it. But
when I come home, you know, from being away around
the country, you know, you go to some beautiful places.
I mean, this is a and even around the world,
I always come back here and think exactly that, Like
I can't find anywhere that is.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Even matches it. You know, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful city.
I remember one of the famous politicians that I did
to show where you guys were sitting next to it.
I think it was No, it wasn't friend Wild. What
was the other labor lady? What was the name of
the blondheaded lady that was a high commissioner for New
Zealand and King and that king? Sorry Annette for forgetting
your name, and I love her Nick King. By the way,
I sat next to her and she said, if Wellington
(24:21):
had good weather, yes, no one would be able to
afford to live here.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
We'd have two million people.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah, and she's right, and I'll never forget that quote.
And I remember I also said to I was scared
a fly because she looked at me and said, I
don't understand that anyway, flir Fit Cyber. How excited are
you about the Wellington versus in Wellington Test match with
England versus the Black Cats?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Oh? Super excited. I was actually in christ Church last
weekend and saw the English players around the city and thought, oh,
I'll go to the basin and watch the Test.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Were you starstruck?
Speaker 4 (24:53):
I was totally starstruck in awe. But there's no tickets
left because it's sold out, which is a wonderful thing
for Wellington. I'm absolutely thrilled and I just hope that
our boys have been practicing their.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Catching catches win matches and if you drop eight catches,
you ain't gonna win too many matches.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
That's right. There's nothing like a good Test though, and
if you watch it every day you kind of live it.
It's like reading a novel.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
It's unbelievable. And England England New Zealand at the base
of Reserve. I mean it doesn't ever get any bigger
for cricket lovers, does it.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
No, it's super exciting. It's a great way to move
into the Christmas period.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
All right, talking about Christmas period, Christmas period. Thanks for
the segue there, Flir. A number of government departments have
scrapped your Christmas party and asking staff to contribute. Is
this miserable, nick Leggett, bringing your own plate along and
getting maybe one drink? Or is this getting to the
next level.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
It's completely miserable, And I like it's one day of
the year we actually want people to go to work,
particularly when they're in the public service, but actually at
all workplaces where they feel good and they're connected with
their colleagues and they can have a good time and
let their hair down. And to penny pinch is really
dumb in my view, really really dumb, and I think
(26:07):
there'd be anybody listening that would think that was a
good idea. But you know, it's the gotcha tactics of
the media. You know, they're terrified media.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yeah, your media, what are you doing for your stuff?
You have your big Christmas party?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Are you more than one?
Speaker 5 (26:20):
But like it? You you know what they're worried about
is that in six months time a journalist looking for
a story. Well, oh, I a you know, every government
department and they'll compare the cost of Christmas party and
there'll be a bad headline. Now, you know, they should
be worried about that. Like I'm not saying they shouldn't,
But can't we get over this sort of grinchy kind
(26:41):
of approach and.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
It's one way or the other. Why can't we go
down the middle and say, yeah, I said yesterday that
we should have fifty dollars ahead, have a budget of
fifty dollars ahead for it. That's fair, you know, that's fair.
You can still have a good time for fifty bucks
and get out of the bloody office and go somewhere
and get out, let your hair down and have a
good time. Flirt for simon. You're the union lady, what
are you thinking?
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Absolutely, especially after the year that public servants have had,
I actually think it's really miserable and grim, and any
decent boss puts on a Christmas I'm actually wishing that
we've got it as a contractual entitlement and collective agreements,
because there was a time when it was absolutely obvious
and it would have been completely non controversial to put
it in, But it just goes and I think, picking
up on next point, it just goes to show how
(27:20):
far we've come in the value that we place on
public services and public servants that this is such a
controversial issue. Of course they should have a Christmas do.
They should be thanked for the work that they've done,
like every other worker in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, but I work for a public company and we're
not having a Christmas party. I mean, we're having.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Joined the union that will sort it out for you.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
We're having get a couple of drinks in here, and
you know, I'm thankful to have a job, so I'm
not you know, you know, but realistically I feel like
I need a break. I need a party, you know.
I've worked hard all year. I need lot. Times I
don't need it. In my own office, times are tough.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Let's not forget that. And there will be there'll be
a lot of the private set will be up against
the wall. I'm talking about small businesses and others. But
I thought, Nick, what you proposed about, you know, having
a budget at fifty dollars a wordy.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Right across the board.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
It's a good accept the way. You know, you can
have a good time with that and people can come together,
so a lot there's got to be a happy medium.
And I would say this as well, it would be
great to see flu some leadership in the public sector.
I'm talking about sort of departmental chief executives just stay
down the barrel of a camera and say, sorry, but
our people are really important, Like we need a bit
more of that.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Back to I agree. Let's talk about something that was
a little bit controversial that I did during the show
this week. Now, I've got a pet hate. Now, no,
I don't reckon you're a supermarket shopper, but Clair I
think you maybe.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
Oh no, I'm just I'm not a normal human, I know.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
But are you a shoper? Are you a shopper? You do?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You do?
Speaker 3 (28:45):
You do the grocery shopping?
Speaker 5 (28:46):
I don't do it, but I do, of course, I
go into a surf market.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
I'm saying, but do you do the grocery shop? I
do my grocery shopping. But I'm the biggest of the house. Yeah,
I'm the big tribal Well, of course.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
I pick up groceries on part ours. I don't do
the big shop.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Okay, all right, So that's what you probably my pet
hate is people that sniff and touch and feel fruit
and vegetables before they put them money. You're behind someone,
you want four damn mandains? Flir? How do you feel
about people? I'm not going to use the word fondling
because apparently it's the wrong word. Yes, I think it
is the wrong word.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
I couldn't understand this topic. What is going on. This
is gross. I cannot understand that people would think it's
okay to sniff fruit and then not buy it. It's yuck.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
But do you see it?
Speaker 4 (29:30):
I would say mainly with avocados, because they are the
thing that is quite hard to tell if they're right
or not.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
But you know, you don't put your mouth to the
skin of an avocado.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Do you think?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Goodness?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
That's so? Is it okay? Is it okay to sniff?
Speaker 4 (29:45):
I make?
Speaker 5 (29:46):
Can I make? I want to say two things. Firstly.
The first thing is some people are tactile, and it
is a natural And I'm not like this is not
necessarily me. It might be I haven't thought about it
too much, but some people need to touch things and want
to sniff them, and that is a should they do it?
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Should they shouldn't. Those people should not.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
But let's actually just I recognize that some people do.
You know, it's a natural it's a natural instinct for
some people.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Okay, I need to break because it's probably I've got
flur sort of looking a little bit like you're not
going to go to the supermarket again. That's how I felt, too,
flu I feel a little bit about eggs to at
the moment. Let's talk about that. No, no, no, I'm
worried about this, the flu virus and stuff. My eggs
are okay, So anyway, the Friday fact, Okay, guys and girls,
(30:38):
is it all right to say guys? If you're saying
for groups and people, I always just think, hey, guys.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
I go for people. Now, hey people, okay.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
All right, well you you do. You'd definitely be the
politically correct one amongst us, wouldn't, she Nick, We wouldn't
argue that hots and knots. Come on, Nick, give us
your hot.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
To knots my hot as well. A lot. I have
to say this because I work for the betterment of
infrastructure in New Zealand, and it's been great to see
this week, particularly both major print publications so zing zed
me being one with the herald do massive features on
(31:15):
our infrastructure system and the recognition that we've got to
get better value for money out of our infrastructure builds.
So you know, you think about schools, hospitals and really
poor condition around the country, roads, rail We've just got
to do so much better. It's great to see that
happening and being taken to public discussion.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Okay, it's called public works, by the way. That's how
fix it. How you fix the whole thing. Have a
government department that goes and fixes everything flir hots and
not speeds.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Well, my hots is the thirty thousand nurses that stood
up and went on strike, and they did so because
the government is not complying with their equal Pace settlement
that compensated them for years and years of gender based
under valuation. But they're also standing up for patient safety
and to me, that was a very empowering demonstration of
them iportants and public health. The alternative, though, my not
(32:10):
is the actions of Tidopu toady Maumunuko Trust who have
locked out low paid disability workers and they've locked them
out simply because they are asking for a fair deal
and fair treatment at work and it is an aggressive
tactic by this employer to try and convince low paid
workers that they're not worth what they are saying they're worth.
(32:31):
And it is deeply upsetting to see these aggressive tactics
being used by these employers here in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Flurford Simon's Nick Leggett, thank you both very much and
if I don't see you before, please have a very
very happy Merry Christmas. And let's hope next year is
going to be better. It will be We survive to
twenty five.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at B dissecting the week sublime and ridiculous.
Friday faceoff with Quinovic Property Management, A better rental experience
for all called on eight hundred Quinovic on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Dozen starts by Sunday Friday Friday faceoff joining us this
week has infrastructured.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Muty On Chief Executive mclega. Good morning, Nicholas, Kora, Nicholas
and p is a assistant secretary flir for Simon the
union lady, don't stop me. I'm part of the union,
beautiful lover, remember that. Yeah you are that union person.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Yeah, happy to be not going to be running for.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Mere think someone's been texting me, so is she going
to run for mayor?
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Very lots to do in the union movement.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
So I just asked you a question.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
No, I'm not running the Bear of Wellington.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Did you see the way she slipped out of it?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
But like old habits die hard, right, I mean I
get it. That's just you used to answering questions.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I said that before you were on.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
It was very quick when you did ask her, when
you followed up to say she wasn't.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So yeah, I thought it was that she was thinking
about it.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
No, I just thought it's another opportunity to talk about
how important unions are.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Okay, And there's no point asking Nick. It's many times
I hear everywhere I go, Jesus, Nick Leggot would be
make amazing Mia and I go, yeah, someone's going to
find anyway.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
But I tried it as well. It's not like I,
you know, haven't I didn't give it a go so
and I just think the world moves on a bit
so And actually, you know, I think people are really
concerned about where Wellington's headed. But I think most people
can do something that without running for office. And I
think we'll talk about some of those issues today, which
(02:10):
we will.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
We will. Let's start with the city at the City
to See Bridge and the Michael Fowler Center. Iconic City
to See Bridge is set to be demolished after a
last attempt to save it failed at a council meeting yesterday.
But how now attentions turning to another landmark where people
are talking about demolition. It's proposed to the earthquake prone
Michael Fowler Center might be under the gun. Let's start
(02:32):
with you on this one, Fleur first on the City
to See bridge. Is this the right decision?
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I look, absolutely, it was earthquake prone and would have
cost more to delay it and may have even put
the new library opening at risk. But I also think
it's an interesting insight into how difficult it is to
make decisions in Wellington. Actually it was a very close vote,
which I think goes to show that those counselors have
lost trust in the advice that they are receiving, and
(02:59):
that's because of the debacle that was Wellington Airport. They
got changing in different advice throughout that whole debate and
now thus guessing it. On the face of it, it
seems a very simple decision. Demolish it, move on, Nick.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
This is what really upsets me through the new coalition
Gun We've got four more years to make decisions like this,
So the whole earthquake strength and rules have been changed
for four years. Couldn't we just sit back and wait
for a couple of years or two or three years.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
No, Look, I think I'm with Flair demolish the bridge.
I'm also of the view that it will improve the area.
It will improve the access to the water, to the
harbor and that it will be lighter and brighter and safer.
So look, I agree with the decision, but I do
(03:45):
want to say this. It is evidence for me yet
again that Wellington gets sucked into these binary yes or no,
you know, keep well demolish, and we don't lift our
faces up to the horizon and understand where it is
we need to go. This city lost people between one
(04:07):
census and the last census. We've had significant public service cuts.
There is you know that they have the housing markets
going backwards. We know that we're in a bit of
a funk. What we have to do is understand better
where we're going. These sort of decisions, and you think
about what's happening in the Botanical gardens as well and
the Michael Fowler Center this week. These sort of decisions
(04:28):
become easier when you've got a vision, you know what
you're about, you've got some confidence, and people can then
link together and work out, you know, in a more
of a sort of consensus way, where it is Wellington
needs to go, and how much it's going to cost
and who's going to pay for it as well. So
this was indicative to me of just a broader challenge
(04:52):
that we have here about making decisions and getting on
with things.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Flir What about the Michael Fowler Center.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Look, they have to take an evidence based approach to it.
It would be a terrible institution to lose. It actually
plays a really important role as a venue you for
things like graduations, for a number of shows that wouldn't
otherwise be able to come to Wellington Opera. That's right,
it's a it's a very important institution in Wellington and
they should go carefully when making a decision.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Do you think they will? Do you think they'll pull
it down?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
My instincts are no. But I'm not a structural engineer.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
No, Nick, do you think they? I mean, it's part
of our history, isn't it? Is it? I love it?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (05:33):
I mean that's what I mean about. If you had
an idea of what you're about, these decisions would become easier.
So you know that Michael fowlercentd have sort of fitted
into the fabric the last four decade fabric of what
makes Wellington what it is. You know, it is a
it is a big, a big sort of iconic building
(05:53):
on our horizon and it's a place where people gather
for know and come together. So yeah, I mean, look,
I think we should try and save it, but I
also think, you know, you look at the town Hall, Debarkle.
We are bitten here with massive costs, and I mean,
i'm I think we're on the road with the town hall. Fine, Taquina.
(06:16):
I think it's a good it's a good thing to
have as well, but actually we do have to be
choosy about what we keep. We need an auditorium style,
yeah we do, but this does seem to be a
lot of spaces and there's not.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Wellington's pretty short of view music.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
And it was only two fridays ago that we talked
all of them being fully.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
For example, we can't get big gigs. Pearl Jam couldn't
come to Wellington.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
No, no, but we don't.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
But we don't want to get rid of more venues
because we actually don't have a good medium sized venue
or a very large venue. But the thing is, I
think you're right about the town Hall. We don't want
to make the same mistakes there. If we knew what
we knew now about the town Hall, I don't think
it would be.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Never gone in ahead, never have gone ahead.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
No, I agree, No, No, that's it wouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Let's move on to why and how? I mean great segue.
Dorset City Council Chief Executive Matt Prosser has been appointed
the new Chief executive of Wellington City Council and will
start next year. He has no experience in local government
in New Zealand, is coming direct from the UK. Flur,
you would have been if you were still on council
part of that selecting him. You would have also been.
(07:25):
I'm trying to think of the guy's name that selective
we got from England last time. Kevin Lavery, of course,
thank you. Who was I think pretty damn good. I mean,
obviously got different opinions looking at body language.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
I thought he was good to.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, I thought he was good. But Flir obviously well,
I let her. I'll let Flur speak.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
No.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I mean, I just wish this new chief executive all
the very best. We really need him to do well.
He may just be the fresh pair of hands that
Wellington needs. I think there's something very special about the
role of a chief executive. You need to respect elected members,
you need to be a strong personality, but you also
need to leave space for the mayor to be the
(08:05):
mayor and it's a quite hard delicate balance for somebody
to get right. You need to work behind the scenes
to drive outcomes for Wellington without taking over, and it's
hard to get that right. But the challenges facing our
city are so big we really need him to get
that balance right and I really hope he does because
there needs to be a cultural shift in that council
(08:27):
to respect the mayor and respect counselors and give them
the advice they need to make good decisions, not second
guest decisions before they even get to the table.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Nick, I think this is really simple. CEO is a CEO,
so he runs the company. The mayor is like the
chairman of the board, so they are the front peed person,
but the business is done by the CEO. Am I
right or wrong? You've both had local bodies.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
Well, it's not a council, not a company. So I
think that's really important to and a chief executive. Their
job is to deliver the outcomes and the idea is
set up by the counsel and to spend the money
and on the resources of the council. Say you know
what's that they allocate. So yeah, it's really important. I mean,
(09:11):
and we have had this I do agree with Fleir.
We've had this issue in local government across New Zealand
where the role and the part of an elected member
has been diminished over time, and I think we've actually
unfortunately pulled them. But away from that that sort of
big picture, long termism we get we've sucked counselors down
(09:33):
into into sort of being micromanagers, and a good chief
executive will will will will separate those things out and.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Either if you have any problems with him being having
no experience whatsoever and no idea, no idea, culture, no idea.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
I think Wellington, like Flir said, Wellington needs a fresh
pair of eyes. We are we do have challenges here.
Somebody coming in from the outside who understands local government
and understands the political realm that they're going to be operating.
I mean this, this this individual will have run health
and education and doors, so he will have a lot
of experience across because you know, actually social issues. While
(10:11):
the council is not involved in a lot, well it
isn't housing. It's going to be really important to have
someone who understands those and particularly with the housing challenges
that we have here. I'm optimistic about this person.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Really, I really am flirt.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Yeah, no, totally. I mean he will need to understand
the special relationship with Munafenua and I would expect that
that would be one of his first meetings would be
to meet with Muno Fhenua and understand the special relationship
they have with the council, and I'm assuming that will
be the approach that the Council will take.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
It's been revealed that Dame Theresa Walsh, a member of
the supposedly a political vers of Vision for Wellington group,
had been keeping Christopher Luxel informed about when the group
would launch. In one text, lux and replied, love it now,
flirfit Simon's We've seen this. Do you think this group
is a political as a claim?
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Absolutely not. The claims of being a political a total rubbish.
Look at who is on that list. They all come
from a right wing background, they're all very wealthy and
they've been texting the National Party Prime Minister. I don't
mind this group getting together. Good on them. We should.
Everyone in there, in their homes and in cafes all
over Wellington is having the same kind of discussions they
(11:24):
are about their frustrations and visions for the city. But
to claim that they are a political is total rubbish,
and it actually will undermine their ability to be effective
because they've started out being deceptive.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Nicholas, you will have trouble arguing that point, wouldn't you?
Speaker 5 (11:43):
Why would you think I'd want to argue?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I just thought that you might because I reckon that
you might be part of this vision.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Was my name on the list? Now I'm certain they
ask you. No, they didn't, and I wouldn't have joined anyway,
to be.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Honest, because.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
There are a couple of people will shivers if you're not.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I'm not.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
There are a couple of names there I wouldn't want
to be associated with, frankly, and there are some very
good people on the list who have excellent an excellent
reputation for getting thing's done in Wellington. Look to me,
and flu will disagree with this potentially, but I think
what we need to govern Wellington is a good coalition
of the sensible left and the sensible right. And she's nodding,
(12:26):
so maybe she doesn'tsagree with that. And we are a
bit of a If you don't organize on either side
of the spectrum, you're a bit of a sort of
a one winged bird, and so I actually think that
they should be more focused on being organized and political
than trying to deny it. Otherwise they're not going to
end up anywhere. But what we do want, because you
(12:47):
know it's a local gun election year around the country
next year, we want good candidates to come forward, and
in Wellington that means a council of people who look
like the city, reflect the city. A lot of those
people are on the council at the moment. Actually, I
don't pour scorn on the current council because I actually
think it can get together. You look at the Shares discussion.
(13:07):
I've got a majority together and we got a decision.
So this idea of dysfunction is a little bit overblowing.
There are issues obviously, but those will I think be
dealt with and they will certainly be dealt with by
voters at the election. So yeah, I'm in vision Wellington.
I just think it needs to define more what it
is about. And as I said, it's a little bit
more of this. Tell us where we need to go,
(13:30):
tell us the issues that are important, tell us how
we can work together to get more jobs, better housing,
a bit more alive culture and get Wellington out of
the doldrums a bit.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Could Flir be responsible for screwing this up completely? Could
they put up somebody and then there are another person
that would run on their own accord, you know, like
a well known person that didn't wasn't part of it.
Could they split the vote and then Tory, if she
stands again, just comes through the middle again. I mean,
could that happen.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Well, we've got single transferable vote, so that is unlikely
to happen. What I think they're more likely to do
is help define the terms of the next mayoral election campaign,
and that's probably seems to be what they're trying to do.
What we're going to need to do when it comes
to the local body elections is what Nick says. We're
going to need to look at the people who are
there now and who have done well and have shown
(14:20):
an ability to think with an open mind and think
creatively about the problems the city is facing, as well
as consider whether there are some new people that we
need to add into the mix for good decisions for
the city. But the idea that we have a sort
of sensible less sensible, right, I think it's good, but
just saying sensible people acting in the best interest of
Wellington is what we need from a council, and with
(14:42):
good leadership from the CEO and the mayor, I think
we'll get there.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
And the thing is that people keep forgetting is that
we need people from all walks of life on the council.
We don't need it just to be the Chardonage Club
as I call them on a Friday afternoon. We need
people that are doing it tough and people that are
you know, you know, we need a mix of it.
That's what makes a councilor council, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Totally. And they also need to respect each other's perspective
and background.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
And help each other to achieve what each group needs.
The rich need us to keep the businesses going. The
poor need this to stay alive. How do we work together?
Isn't it quite simple?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:15):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
And actually, if you look around the world, the best
decision making bodies have a diversity of experience and background.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Have we got any hope?
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Yes, I've got lots of hope.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Have you flipped?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah? Absolutely. People are talking to me all the time
about wanting to talking about you.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Running for me. That's what they're talking about all the time.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
You're trying to fit Flair and I into jobs here today.
I mean, we just we just want to be part
of something good. And I don't know about you, fair,
but I just want to push good people into standing up.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
So you know, I don't have no one. There's no
one sort of there or thereabouts at the moment, there's
no one.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
We've got a long time to run until the election.
If I recall Andy Foster did announce he was running
for his successful merial bit until the nominations closed. I mean,
it doesn't we don't have to know.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Now he had a certain Sir Peter Jackson helping him
out that I think might have made a bit of
a difference. And the success or non success of that
fit Simon's you're agreeing with me, We now get serious.
All Black CV Reese just back from the Northern Tour.
All Black Northern Tour, was granted a discharge without conviction
(16:21):
this week for willful damage. It's his second discharge after
being charge of assault against his former partner in twenty eighteen.
Nick Leggan, I want to start with you on this.
This is his second discharge without conviction. If he wasn't
an all black and he was just a twenty seven
year old from your old city potty tour. Do you
(16:42):
reckon he would have gone off of two discharges without conviction.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
No, No, I don't. I don't think he would have,
and I think it's something that we have to confront.
In fact, my not today is sort of on the
same topic, but slightly related to this topic. Look, we
do have to ask ourselves why people in high profile
positions often seem to get off and and get an
(17:07):
easier way forward. I'm a big believer that people should
be able to redeem themselves. I think the idea that
we lock people away and lock people up and throw
away the key is not something that I subscribe to.
But there also has to be consequence, particularly if it's
second time in a row. So it's a hard one
because I don't think anybody would expect to see this
(17:29):
individual's career ended. But it does appear that the consequences
are pretty light. The other thing that I noticed that
he has stopped drinking since this occurred, and that you know,
probably will go a long way if he can stick
to it. But yeah, I have a problem with the
(17:51):
two rules that I see evident in society, and I
guess it's public scrutiny like what we're doing now that
probably is the greatest consequence for people like this, and
you know, we do have to, I think, assess how
we approach this for people in high profile positions.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Flirford Simon, you've got a legal background. What did you
make of when you read this decision?
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Well, it is unusual, but it's unusual because he has
international obligations as part of his job, and other people
facing similar charges with international obligations are treated the same way.
So sure that is different because he's an all black,
and I understand how people would think that it's a
one rule for him and one rule for other people.
But I think it's the travel obligations that the court's
(18:38):
way up so and I don't think it's great. I
do think it's interesting that the fact that he's getting
help for his drinking problem is one of the factors.
And it's a shame that they're just it's actually a
tragedy that there isn't support for other people with drinking
another addiction problem, so that they could also get discharged
without conviction two or three times, which would help keep
(18:59):
their life on track.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Actually well, I'm going to tell you both a story
about someone that I know very well that is an
ex army guy. Right, He went home and saw someone
in his house trying to rob his house, and the
guy was trying to beat him up. So he fought
and left the guy in a bit of a mess.
So he went in front of the courts and the
(19:21):
judge said to him, because you should have known him better,
because you're an army trained I'm going to throw the
book at you and did so. So how does that
work because of his background and Sivu Reese, with a
hell of a profile, work the opposite way. Nick.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
I don't know, Nick, to be honest, it's a hard
one to answer when you don't have the sort of
you've just described something to us. But look, we you
know in first touched on and I'm going to talk
about it later, but I'll expand on it. But now
you know, we have too many young people going into
the correction system, and there's been a report out today
(20:01):
we are failing people under aged under twenty five. I
would much rather we were focusing on how to stop
them from getting there in the first place, or rehabilitate
them once they were part of the system. Why is
it we keep getting this wrong? There is significant evidence
to show that if you the earlier you intervene, the
more you invest earlier, the better it will be for
(20:24):
those individuals, for their funer and for society. And we
never get this stuff right, We never line the system up.
So it's making the you know, stopping people from getting
into trouble, and then when they are in trouble, we
don't invest in in their rehabilitation. So the point that
Flair made about actually, if you coul support people to
get off drinking drugs, young people particularly, you'd have a
(20:46):
much greater chance of keeping them outside the system and
get them on the road. So it like, let's ask
the wider questions about our society. Why are we so
poor at this? And yes, it is in all of
our interests and in the interest of the public purse
to actually keep people, you know, get keep people on
(21:07):
the straight and narrow earlier as early in life as well.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Wouldn't it show Flirt and this is kind of where
I gets to me. Wouldn't it show the kids that
are playing up that if an all black can go
and do get charged and go and do social work
or do some work or do some community based work
that that that's not good enough. Wouldn't it show them?
Speaker 4 (21:28):
No, I don't think that the evidence shows that it
works that way. I think actually what the evidence shows
is that providing wrap around support for those young people
and trying to get them back on track is the
way to go, and there are a lot of programs
in place to try and support them doing that. And
the sorts of oh, well, wouldn't they take a message
from that these young people aren't following this, and I don't.
(21:50):
Actually now, I don't know you.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
There I be the young kids that are actually going
in front of the courts and saying, well, that was me,
I'd be done.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
I don't envy the courts. Every judge takes this responsibility
very seriously. They weigh up all of the factors. They
think about the kids background, they think about what's gone
on for them, and they do try and come up
with sentences and outcomes which are not only proportionate, but
actually try and get people back on tracks. So there
is already a lot of that going on, and it's
(22:17):
a very difficult job for a judge to weigh up
these competing factors.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Friday face off with Nick Leggett and Flurford Simon's we
are New Zealand have got England twenty one for two,
remembering that we won the toss and ask them kindly
to bat. They are twenty one for two after eight over.
It's a very very good start. I want to talk
about cricket because does it actually get any bigger? Nick's
(22:42):
looking at me very plainly here? Does it actually get
any bigger than Wellington versus England at the Basin Reserve
here and Wearrington. I mean, this to me is the
pinnacle of cricket. It's mother Nation against foreigners us big
day Nick.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
I think it's fantastic. It's great for Wellington. No, I mean,
you don't have to be like a die hard fan
to know that this is the sort of thing that
makes Wellington a life at this time of year. And
it brings people, It brings international coverage. It makes people
feel alive when they're out with other Wellingtonians and other
people from around the country and around the world. I
(23:17):
think it's terrific.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
And you know, the.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Crowds were lining up this morning. We're using a great
you know, a great venue for Wellington. I just think
it's all good.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Did you see some of the shots going out You
wouldn't have because you have been here, but the shots
going out before the game of Wellington and the big
area shots. You know, we we do forget that we
are living in the most.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Beautiful dumming this place.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
We do, we do. It is the most beautiful city
in the world.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
I mean it's second to put it in it. But
when I come home, you know, from being away around
the country, you know, you go to some beautiful places.
I mean, this is a and even around the world,
I always come back here and think exactly that, Like
I can't find anywhere that is.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Even matches it. You know, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful city.
I remember one of the famous politicians that I did
to show where you guys were sitting next to it.
I think it was No, it wasn't friend Wild. What
was the other labor lady? What was the name of
the blondheaded lady that was a high commissioner for New
Zealand and King and that king? Sorry Annette for forgetting
your name, and I love her Nick King. By the way,
I sat next to her and she said, if Wellington
(24:21):
had good weather, yes, no one would be able to
afford to live here.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
We'd have two million people.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah, and she's right, and I'll never forget that quote.
And I remember I also said to I was scared
a fly because she looked at me and said, I
don't understand that anyway, flir Fit Cyber. How excited are
you about the Wellington versus in Wellington Test match with
England versus the Black Cats?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Oh? Super excited. I was actually in christ Church last
weekend and saw the English players around the city and thought, oh,
I'll go to the basin and watch the Test.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Were you starstruck?
Speaker 4 (24:53):
I was totally starstruck in awe. But there's no tickets
left because it's sold out, which is a wonderful thing
for Wellington. I'm absolutely thrilled and I just hope that
our boys have been practicing their.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Catching catches win matches and if you drop eight catches,
you ain't gonna win too many matches.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
That's right. There's nothing like a good Test though, and
if you watch it every day you kind of live it.
It's like reading a novel.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
It's unbelievable. And England England New Zealand at the base
of Reserve. I mean it doesn't ever get any bigger
for cricket lovers, does it.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
No, it's super exciting. It's a great way to move
into the Christmas period.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
All right, talking about Christmas period, Christmas period. Thanks for
the segue there, Flir. A number of government departments have
scrapped your Christmas party and asking staff to contribute. Is
this miserable, nick Leggett, bringing your own plate along and
getting maybe one drink? Or is this getting to the
next level.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
It's completely miserable, And I like it's one day of
the year we actually want people to go to work,
particularly when they're in the public service, but actually at
all workplaces where they feel good and they're connected with
their colleagues and they can have a good time and
let their hair down. And to penny pinch is really
dumb in my view, really really dumb, and I think
(26:07):
there'd be anybody listening that would think that was a
good idea. But you know, it's the gotcha tactics of
the media. You know, they're terrified media.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yeah, your media, what are you doing for your stuff?
You have your big Christmas party?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Are you more than one?
Speaker 5 (26:20):
But like it? You you know what they're worried about
is that in six months time a journalist looking for
a story. Well, oh, I a you know, every government
department and they'll compare the cost of Christmas party and
there'll be a bad headline. Now, you know, they should
be worried about that. Like I'm not saying they shouldn't,
But can't we get over this sort of grinchy kind
(26:41):
of approach and.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
It's one way or the other. Why can't we go
down the middle and say, yeah, I said yesterday that
we should have fifty dollars ahead, have a budget of
fifty dollars ahead for it. That's fair, you know, that's fair.
You can still have a good time for fifty bucks
and get out of the bloody office and go somewhere
and get out, let your hair down and have a
good time. Flirt for simon. You're the union lady, what
are you thinking?
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Absolutely, especially after the year that public servants have had,
I actually think it's really miserable and grim, and any
decent boss puts on a Christmas I'm actually wishing that
we've got it as a contractual entitlement and collective agreements,
because there was a time when it was absolutely obvious
and it would have been completely non controversial to put
it in, But it just goes and I think, picking
up on next point, it just goes to show how
(27:20):
far we've come in the value that we place on
public services and public servants that this is such a
controversial issue. Of course they should have a Christmas do.
They should be thanked for the work that they've done,
like every other worker in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, but I work for a public company and we're
not having a Christmas party. I mean, we're having.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Joined the union that will sort it out for you.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
We're having get a couple of drinks in here, and
you know, I'm thankful to have a job, so I'm
not you know, you know, but realistically I feel like
I need a break. I need a party, you know.
I've worked hard all year. I need lot. Times I
don't need it. In my own office, times are tough.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Let's not forget that. And there will be there'll be
a lot of the private set will be up against
the wall. I'm talking about small businesses and others. But
I thought, Nick, what you proposed about, you know, having
a budget at fifty dollars a wordy.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Right across the board.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
It's a good accept the way. You know, you can
have a good time with that and people can come together,
so a lot there's got to be a happy medium.
And I would say this as well, it would be
great to see flu some leadership in the public sector.
I'm talking about sort of departmental chief executives just stay
down the barrel of a camera and say, sorry, but
our people are really important, Like we need a bit
more of that.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Back to I agree. Let's talk about something that was
a little bit controversial that I did during the show
this week. Now, I've got a pet hate. Now, no,
I don't reckon you're a supermarket shopper, but Clair I
think you maybe.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
Oh no, I'm just I'm not a normal human, I know.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
But are you a shoper? Are you a shopper? You do?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You do?
Speaker 3 (28:45):
You do the grocery shopping?
Speaker 5 (28:46):
I don't do it, but I do, of course, I
go into a surf market.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
I'm saying, but do you do the grocery shop? I
do my grocery shopping. But I'm the biggest of the house. Yeah,
I'm the big tribal Well, of course.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
I pick up groceries on part ours. I don't do
the big shop.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Okay, all right, So that's what you probably my pet
hate is people that sniff and touch and feel fruit
and vegetables before they put them money. You're behind someone,
you want four damn mandains? Flir? How do you feel
about people? I'm not going to use the word fondling
because apparently it's the wrong word. Yes, I think it
is the wrong word.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
I couldn't understand this topic. What is going on. This
is gross. I cannot understand that people would think it's
okay to sniff fruit and then not buy it. It's yuck.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
But do you see it?
Speaker 4 (29:30):
I would say mainly with avocados, because they are the
thing that is quite hard to tell if they're right
or not.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
But you know, you don't put your mouth to the
skin of an avocado.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Do you think?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Goodness?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
That's so? Is it okay? Is it okay to sniff?
Speaker 4 (29:45):
I make?
Speaker 5 (29:46):
Can I make? I want to say two things. Firstly.
The first thing is some people are tactile, and it
is a natural And I'm not like this is not
necessarily me. It might be I haven't thought about it
too much, but some people need to touch things and want
to sniff them, and that is a should they do it?
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Should they shouldn't. Those people should not.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
But let's actually just I recognize that some people do.
You know, it's a natural it's a natural instinct for
some people.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Okay, I need to break because it's probably I've got
flur sort of looking a little bit like you're not
going to go to the supermarket again. That's how I felt, too,
flu I feel a little bit about eggs to at
the moment. Let's talk about that. No, no, no, I'm
worried about this, the flu virus and stuff. My eggs
are okay, So anyway, the Friday fact, Okay, guys and girls,
(30:38):
is it all right to say guys? If you're saying
for groups and people, I always just think, hey, guys.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
I go for people. Now, hey people, okay.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
All right, well you you do. You'd definitely be the
politically correct one amongst us, wouldn't, she Nick, We wouldn't
argue that hots and knots. Come on, Nick, give us
your hot.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
To knots my hot as well. A lot. I have
to say this because I work for the betterment of
infrastructure in New Zealand, and it's been great to see
this week, particularly both major print publications so zing zed
me being one with the herald do massive features on
(31:15):
our infrastructure system and the recognition that we've got to
get better value for money out of our infrastructure builds.
So you know, you think about schools, hospitals and really
poor condition around the country, roads, rail We've just got
to do so much better. It's great to see that
happening and being taken to public discussion.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Okay, it's called public works, by the way. That's how
fix it. How you fix the whole thing. Have a
government department that goes and fixes everything flir hots and
not speeds.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Well, my hots is the thirty thousand nurses that stood
up and went on strike, and they did so because
the government is not complying with their equal Pace settlement
that compensated them for years and years of gender based
under valuation. But they're also standing up for patient safety
and to me, that was a very empowering demonstration of
them iportants and public health. The alternative, though, my not
(32:10):
is the actions of Tidopu toady Maumunuko Trust who have
locked out low paid disability workers and they've locked them
out simply because they are asking for a fair deal
and fair treatment at work and it is an aggressive
tactic by this employer to try and convince low paid
workers that they're not worth what they are saying they're worth.
(32:31):
And it is deeply upsetting to see these aggressive tactics
being used by these employers here in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Flurford Simon's Nick Leggett, thank you both very much and
if I don't see you before, please have a very
very happy Merry Christmas. And let's hope next year is
going to be better. It will be We survive to
twenty five.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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