September 4, 2025 • 32 mins
On Friday Faceoff, Nick was joined by Dot Loves Data director and former Wellington Mayor Justin Lester, along with Iron Duke Partners Managing Director Phil O'Reilly.
They discussed whether Wellington's City to Sea Bridge should be saved, the poll results showing Andrew Little significantly ahead in the Wellington Mayoral race, and whether former Prime Ministers Sir John Key and Helen Clark should have attended recent commemorations in China.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
By Friday days off and fifth day we hadline Duke
Partner's managing director and missed the airline himself.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Phil O'Reilly, Phil. You have been everywhere around the world
in the last few days.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
I've been a Canberra for the Australian Usual Leadership for HUM,
which is a big sort of shindig with senior business
leaders and politicians both sides of the Tasman. Talked to
Alban Easy and you know, charmers and these sorts of
characters and Nikola Willis and then back here for a
few days and then off to Singapore for some of
the business. So yeah, so flying visit.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
But I mean we caught up for a second socially
three weeks ago. You were going all over the world.
Between this period of time.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yeah, I'm back up to Europe in October two. So
I for travel around. But it's good fun. It gives
you just a unique view as a New Zealander when
you're in a lot of the rooms I'm in, I'm
the only key we there, so it just gives you
a unique view about what's actually happening.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
And Justin, I will come to you one second, but
I just want to get films because Bill, you were
pretty adamant twenty eight seconds ago before we went on here.
The people that you're talking to in these high level
meetings are saying this horrible term that I hate green shoots.
Things are turning and you think they are turning.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Yeah, here's an example. A major infrastructure provider who was
installing new power generation was telling me that a year
ago that he would have had his choice of subeast.
Now he's only got one or two because they're all busy. Right.
That's a classic green shoots. Now, are you seeing that
when you go shopping on the supermarket? Not yet. Major
engineering firms now getting busier designing infrastructure projects.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That's great.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
So what your hope is, you know, three six months
down the track, you'll see the impact of that in
real life jobs. But you know that's the important stuff.
The green shots are at the begind of town right now.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
And I'll come to come back to you there on that,
because Dot Loves Data's director and former mayor Justin Lester's
on my right hand side. Justin, that doesn't save those
people in Nelson from the eve Saw Sawmill that's down
one hundred and forty two jobs. God Carter hold Harvey says,
no more. Don't want to give it to an opposition,
don't want to let it keep going gone. So it's
(02:14):
great to talk about green shoots, but you know twenty
seven CapMan Do shops are closed, Smith Cities and liquid
Asia kitchen things.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
The list goes on, Yeah and morning. I couldn't agree more. Look,
it's great to see what and to hear what Fill
is hearing internationally, and we're seeing it in some of
the spending datas. We get ANSID spending data daily, so
we'll see it before anybody in the country, to be honest,
and we are seeing discretionary spending is improving year on
year for the first time in two years. And every
(02:43):
major center across New Zealand. So the fact that's happening
in all nine centers it's great. Whalington has been a
little bit slower, in the ninth centers it's improved for
the last three months, and Wellington it's just picked up
this month. So it's coming. But my question to that
is is it too late because we are seeing these
businesses now. Tip over, I'm increasingly talking to more hospitality
(03:03):
businesses that are clinging on by their fingertips. Of them
have mes financed lending at fourteen percent. Your property developers
as well, construction companies, a local build it's Sparky's tradees, plumbers, electricians,
and they're the ones that have been battling for the
last two years. So it's great, it's happening. It's good
that interest rates coming down. But we haven't helped ourselves.
We've kicked a few own goals. I look at sites
(03:25):
like a Mount Cock you know, we were building two
hunred and fifty apartments up there through coring order I'd
still went back on the back burner, and so we've
kicked a few own goals here too.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
So with your level of expertise, Phil, how quickly is
this going to turn around? Because I mean Justin talks
about fourteen percent. I know hospit people, thank god, I'm
not one of them right now that are borrowed at
twenty to twenty three percent for twelve months to try
and hope that it's going to survive, and if it doesn't,
here's the house.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
So when you say the economy, it's a very complex
thing in the economy. So kitchen things, that's that's of
course exposed to residential real estate and people buying houses
and doing them up. Well, that's just started happening right now.
Smith City probably probably poor strategy in terms of entering
the North Ld, And so you can you go through
each of those events.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
And reason they would get away with that. That's right.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
And the nature of economic downturns is you tend to
shake out those who are either unlucky or incompetent. And obviously,
see anybody we've talked about's incompetent, they might have just
been unlucky. You took out a learone at the wrong time,
made a poor strategic decision. But so the overall economy,
listening to what Justin's talking about in terms of consumer spending,
that's another that's a huge thing. If that's starting to happen,
then everybody will start to feel that that's the sugar
(04:37):
hit in the economy. But neither people. I'm talking to
a big infrastructure providers, big builders, you know, big big
manufacturing businesses, big digital businesses. So as they start to
crank their business, it just takes so off for that
to flow through. So Mum and dud film more confident
to go by TV.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
You still didn't quite give me the answer that a
lot of our listeners will be sitting there driving down
the road, A lot of small businesses they'll be driving
down the road.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
How soon, Oh it'll depend a heck of a lot.
So so I can't give you a better answer than this.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
That what you're telling me. I mean, you're a smart guy.
You're telling you.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I reckon.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
It's another three to six months away. That's my sense
of it. As those interestraight start to come through, we
get into a spring in a summer period. I'm saying
to business people we can't rely on government. They're doing
what they do. They're doing medium and long run stuff
like performing the rama. We need to get on with
this ourselves. We need to actually start doing some stuff
talking amongst ourselves, building some of our own capability. So
there is no one answer as the point. I mean,
(05:28):
if you're you're on a building firm cleaning on you
by your fingernails, and you're in residential building in Wellington,
g you might be might still be a while. But
I know also the builders I work with, they are
busy because they're good so it's a very there's no
one answer to this, but I think it's a three
to six months out as you more generally.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
A really good friend of mine who is actually a surgeon,
not a businessman, but he always says recessions, it's only
going to affect the bottom twenty five percent. So that's
an answer to your question about you know your builders
are good, so they're busy exactly, And I meant that
the ones that are is good an't getting there.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
The downtown cent to shake out and you get more
logical competition like that kind of phrase on as the
economy starts to grow. As economies grow and go and grow,
you'll get people getting into businesses and getting into restaurants
for example, or getting into particular lines of lines of
activity where they maybe not as well suited as they
should be, and actually and they fall over. And that's actually,
(06:22):
that's actually not an unhealthy thing. It's bad for those
businesses and their employees, but economically it's not necessarily an
unhealthy thing.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Let's talk local biolecttions by city council elections, which I
believe it or not, just in six weeks away.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
I think the voting papers come out this weekend.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, but basically we'll know who's our new mayor and
who's our new council in six weeks time. I mean
that seems incredibly quack, but there's a scholar in Australia
that's calling for the New Zealand councils to go through
a national council is to go through a national program
of finance, training and development, he says. Directors of boards
of New Zealand companies fill you know all about this
have to by law have the appropriate skills. But we
(07:00):
don't have any of these for counsel now, justin you
know a lot a little bit about this. I mean,
what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 5 (07:07):
Look, I know Andy Well he used to be a
researcher and I think professor at Mass University and pumpson
North so as well versed on local government politics. Yeah,
what he says is true. Look, it used to sometimes
confuse or confound me some of the decisions being made
around the council table, and you cringe at times. To
be honest, having said that, there is really good support
(07:28):
and training local New Zealand's excellent. They've got a program
called EQUIP. So we've re elected official up and down
the country can have as much training as they'd like.
It's a paid service that's paid by the councils. It's
money well invested.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
How does it work? Tell our listeners how it works?
Speaker 5 (07:43):
You have training courses. For example, when you become mayor,
there's mere school and you get together with all the
mayors around the country.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
How come you didn't go to it? How come Tory
didn't go to.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
How do you change? Mate?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
And look in the governance information. You can go on
iod courses, but you can lead a horse to water.
You can't make it drink. Okay, you can't change people's
personalities are in a TA. But having said that, I
would say that these people are elected for a reason.
Almost all individuals are elected because they are the best candidates.
They've campaigned the best, they have a profile. They're elected
(08:18):
because they're known in their communities, and sometimes from time
to time voters might make a mistake.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Phil My issue with this is that the whole idea
of how councilors are voted in the council situation is
a thing from the days gone by thirty or forty
years ago, where you knew mister Jones and Missus Mills,
and you knew the people that you were voting on
the world's changed, and the rules and the regulations around
it hasn't changed.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah, I agree with that, and I'd add to Justin's
point that the problem is not financial literacy. The problem
is dumb promises. The problem is people making promises that
they know to be untrue or incapable of being fulfilled.
And that's been a problem for thousands of years, by
the way, you know, ever since before democracy, these silly
promises were being made. See, what you're going to do
is to your very point, Nick, you've got to rely
(09:02):
on democracy. You've got to rely on this this give
and take where candidate says O'll do this, in another
camp that says it's impossible, and so on, And I
have a lot of trust and faith in the wisdom
of the voters as she worked it out. Here's the problem, though,
local democracy these days are so poorly presented and reported
in media. You know that use it would have been
in the old days, the dominion post or the newspapers
(09:23):
here would have covered this in some detail. You would
have known. Now you don't. And I think that that's
that's the problem here. We don't have enough of an
underpinning of democracy. This great radio station aside, you know,
we don't have enough of that kind of capacity for
the interplay of the politics to play out so that
those dumb ideas get found out.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Do you think that media are looking for the scoop
story rather than the story about the facts behind the counselor.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yeah, they're looking they're looking for that. And also, and
it's a sad thing. Also if only name recognition gets
you in, and that's also been a bit of an
issue of local policy.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
That's a reality at the moment.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It is.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
That's right, and it's it's sad. I mean, we should
be able to we should be able to have a
much more robust debate with candidates in the media, those
of us who don't turn up to some windy town
hall and Kilbernie to listen to them into a microphone.
We should be able to have that capacity to make
those decisions informed and we don't.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Just speaking of that, we've had the latest poll come
out to the male or the only poll that we've
seen officially come out for the willing to mayoralty rates,
and it shows Andrew Little is overwhelmingly and in front
by on thirty percent support, with rach Hung the closest
back in thirteen percent. I mean this is a coronation,
isn't it. I mean, can you possibly you can't tell
me that there's a Tory farno and the you know
(10:35):
what happened last time in the background here bloomin.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Well, hope not. Because Andrew is the best candidate and
that's why he's ahead, and that's why he's going to win.
Having said that, in the poll prior to the last election,
Paul Eagle was winning and he finished fourth on election day,
so things can change. This pole isn't taken too count STV.
When we polled prior to my election, was miles ahead
of the next best competitor, and I was on election
day too. But when it came to the knife and
(10:59):
iteration and STV, your competitor comes through and they beat you.
So you've just got to be careful. So Andrew won't
be take anything for granted. His campaign team won't be
taking anything for granted. But he is the best candidate.
And Phil's just mentioned it. You know, people making ludicrous promises.
We've got a candidate. I think he's polling second zero
percent rates increases, nice sugar hit slogan, but impossible to
(11:22):
deliver the last person that said they're going to deliver
you know, lower interest, sorry, rates increases. I think it
was andy that when he is can named for the mayoralty,
how did that pan out? Fourteen twelve percent didn't happen.
Didn't have the gumption all we all thought to actually
deliver what he set out to do. So just got
to be careful what you wish for.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Phil. We talked off record about this because you know,
I mentioned to you that the text machine lights up
every time Andrew Little's name comes up, you know, derogatory.
It's not too positive. You were pretty positive it was.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
And we spoke last time I was on the show
about him, and I think the thing that he'll do
he's not going to be a rock star as a mayor.
He's a he's a more mechanical sort of character, even
even knowing and personally as I have for thirty odd years.
But what he'll do is he'll listen. And I think
this council has done a poor job, like if I
could swear, a terrible, terrible job of listening. And they've
(12:17):
ideologically pushed ahead with things city changing things like the
city to Sea bridge. We make get a chance to
talk about where you know, they're just not listening to people.
And Andrew I think will listen, and certainly all my
experience of over dealing with them through all the time
I first met them when he was a union official
and I was employer's advocate years ago, he's always good
at listening. And you might not take on board everything
you say, but I think you'll see it in immediate
(12:38):
uptick in business confidence because business people will be able
to go see him and say we think this, and
you'll listen matter do it, but he'll listen. You won't
just ideologically go off and do what he thinks. The
other thing that's important is you can have a council there,
and I think we also need to be thinking about
which council we're electing here, because he could easily be
as Andy Foster was a mayor of one type, and
(12:59):
you know, the Green faction just tells them to sit
down because they're in control now. So we need to
be thinking about the total of the council here as
we think about voting as well.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Will well, can I just quickly go to you justin
on that. Will he be able to control a council
that might not be I mean there's a lot of
swing towards one side on the council voting, isn't it. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Absolutely, he will will be able to because he's an
experienced operator, and I agree with Phil. He listens and
that's I think one of the strengths of Andrew. He'll
listen to everybody. He has to make decisions because he's
divergent views, but he is sensible. He'll reach across the aisle.
And when I was here in the same issue, there
are people are campaigned against for the mayoralty, but we
(13:38):
got on fine. We had no issues around the table
on any of the votes.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Really.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
I mean I think the closest about nine to six,
so people can get on and that had been different
the previous training.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Can I just throw it out there that I met
you once before. The first time I met you was
when you were mayor and I was presenting something to
you and I walked out of that. I was with
the GM of the sport that I was involved with,
and I walked out and I said, you know what,
I was impressed with that guy for And she goes,
what and I said, he listened. You were a listener
and people always talked about that, so that there, I
(14:08):
just wanted to throw that out there, justin I'm going
to come to you first on this. There's been so
much talk about this in the last couple of weeks
in Wellington. The text machines lit up. We've talked about it.
The Wellington Civic Trust say it won't be appealing a
court judgment which would allow the council to proceed with
the demolition of the city to see bridge. This is
despite protests urging this decision. They're all trying to talk
(14:30):
about it. Also talked the protesters will sit on it.
Where do you stand on this?
Speaker 5 (14:35):
Look, I'm really firm and my view, and this is
one that I've openly suggested to a number of councilors
and mayor. I think it's a really silly decision. This
came to me when I was mare about ten years ago,
an officerly initiative, and the officers have always wanted to
get rid of.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Can I just make it clear you think it's a
silly idea? Pulling it down?
Speaker 5 (14:55):
Still the idea, sorry, pulling it down? There are other alternatives.
The bridge itself is not prone in most circumstances. You know,
the notion that you're going to have three or four
thousand people standing on it while in quake hits Yeah,
an infintesimal risk, but such as life likewise walking across
the road is if the bridge isn't there as at risk.
(15:15):
So I think it's a really really silly decision to
put it down. I think there are much better and
more pragmatic comes. I don't believe it needs to be
strengthened to the level they're proposing. And I'm suspicious because
this came to me ten years ago. They had some
grand plans around revitalizing the precinct and I thought, I
can't afford it. Love the bridge, Wellingtonians do too.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Leave it alone right now, Phil, The scary thing for
me is that talk about the double decker buses that
they want to go down, and Justin will be able
to tell us where that's right won't fit underneath it.
There's you know, au terrior motives to it. Plus the
government are going to make a new stand on the
on the earthquake issue, aren't they, And shortly, why would
we not just wait to hear that? Well?
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I agree it's just it's classic. I mean, it's one
of the It was a Wellingtonian. I actually take tourists
there and say, look at this cool thing, you know,
because it's a cool place, and I'd explain what's going
on with with the railings and so on. And what
I think great things about Wellington is that bridge connects
the waterfront with the city and that's really important, right,
and so if you take it down, you've now got
(16:18):
the six lane highway all the way through, disconnecting you
from what's going on. So I actually think it's a
great bridge and if you can, I'm adjusted on this.
If you're gonna do anything, sure deal a bit of
strengthening on it, but don't just take it down in
some sort of ideological view, more particularly making a decision
as a counsel about it. When the hoardings are up,
we're about to vote onto you guys someone that's the
(16:38):
essence of ideological stuff and sort of two fingers at
the public. It's outrageous what's going on there?
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Is there anything that the public can do right now?
Two people in the supermarket visit for my lunch yesterday said,
is there anything that we can do? We're up in
arms about it. Is there anything I looked at them
and said, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Absolutely media pressure and counselors being clearly aware that their
jobs are at risk. And if Walingtonians come out of
force and a number and say, look we love that bridge,
we don't want it down. We don't believe this is
a pragmatic decision with all the best necard information, leave
it alone and certainly leave it for the next council
(17:15):
to determine. It shouldn't be rushed. I would be very
low to see any construction equipment on site in the
next couple of weeks, So give it time. It's not
a risk now, there's no agency or rush. What's your
gut telling you, Uh, that'd be very foolhardy to works
underway right now. Really for our newsroom believes is cones
(17:37):
down there today?
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Oh gee, I just think you know you can you
think of yourself as a Meeral candidate standing in front
of those things saying I don't want this to happen.
I mean, that's pretty you could see there's some serious
politics about that.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
For a Meeral candidate, you'd be the first one down
thereat and say, look, this is going to stop right now,
and that person's going to sweep into victory.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Why is no one doing that yet? Do you think
they still will do it? I don't know. We'll see
what happens.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Well. I mean, the word is that the cones are
going out this after that, I'm going to check on
the way back to the.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Other I'll lie down.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Come on, come on with me. That's probably the best
offer I've had to come down, light out, but I
think I'll declined. Gosh, we're not making light of the
seriousness of the bridge. By the way, the idea would
be like down next to fill O'Riley wherever the problem
was that. I want to talk about something that's kind
(18:35):
of really concerning me. Pill O'Reilly and Justin Leicster Friday
face off Peter S. Peter Jackson's largest business, were to FX,
has revealed that it's just got a fifty nine million
dollar loss a mid restructure which one hundred staff are
expected to lose their job. Phil this is our flagship. Come,
I mean, this is what makes Wellington great, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (18:57):
One of them?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Lots of things? But you know what I mean, it's
like you know the movies. The whole thing that. I mean,
let's cut to the chase. It makes Wellington, what you know,
a little bit better than we are.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
I no agree. And it's one thing. What's another one
that there's things I take tourists to, you know, they
all want to see, you know, where it was Lord
of the Rings filmed, and go around there and I
show them just how kind of key we it is,
you know, in old state houses and stuff down. There's what,
as I understand it, what's happening is there's this challenge
through COVID and then through the actors strike. There was
this big strike in Hollywood you might recall, where movies
(19:30):
weren't made and that's causing them a problem because they
often come in these post production guys. As I understand it,
coming towards the end, I may be wrong on this,
but that's that's designerstood the story. So this is actually
a problem that's not of New Zealand's making. It's a
problem of Hollywood's making where they just don't have that
kind of that that pathway movies. Now, you'd hope that
they'll pick that up. They'd hope that they'll get get
(19:51):
it back and on the good news, James Cameron now
in New Zealand, citizen and keen to make movies here.
So I suspect it's a temporary thing rather to do
with the economic cycle of movie making. But obviously see
outcome for Wilmington, no question.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Justin what are you hearing?
Speaker 5 (20:04):
Look, one hundredercent agree with you. Look, it's an important
component of Wellington. It's part of the city's reputation and
brand as well, and it brings people from.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
All over the world.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
Look, I'm one of my daughter's best friends from Australia.
They're here. They work for Wetter dropped a guy off.
He's a water polo coach. He's from California, who lives here.
Is family's back in California. He contributes to the local community.
So what I'm hearing from them is that the pipeline
actually looks okay second half of next year. But it's
a tough time between now and then. But I've got confidence,
(20:34):
given again the reputations and the experience of Sarah to
Taylor and Peter Jackson and James Cameron, that they'll they'll
bring the content here, they'll get it here, and we
have to help them and make sure it works.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, do anything we can to support them one hundred percent.
I want to get to you on this swim, Phil,
because this is going to be right down your alley,
and I've got no idea which way you're going to
swim on it.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Now.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I know normally which way you're going to swing. On
this one, I've got no idea. Former Prime Ministers Sir
John Key, well let's keep it within the R eighteen
thinks The former Prime Minister Sir John Key and Helen
Clark attended the Chinese military parade to commemorate the eightieth
anniversary of the end of Second World War. They shook
hands with people, you know, big high up, the presidents
(21:18):
of countries. I mean, what's your gut on this? Did
you think anything of it? Or when the media started
attacking it, then look at it again, what was your thought.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
It's been a big deal in Australia too, where Dan
Andrews and Bob Carr, two to the senior state premiers,
also turned up. I see Helen Clark said, you know
it was a judgment call. It was a fine call,
you know, and and the logical part of me says, yes,
that's right. Because Helen Clark was the Prime Minister when
we signed the Chinese FTA. That's been a massive resriver
(21:48):
of our success as a country over the last twenty years.
There's no question about that. John Key had a very
special relationship with g and still does. That was massively
important to us when he was Prime Minister. So that level,
if we want to be logical and look at the
PowerPoint dex and so on, you'd say, maybe they turn up.
And here's the problem. We talk to clients about this
all the time. You can be as logical as you
like and still not part what we call the front
page of the dominion test. It's just not going to
(22:09):
pass that test. You can't say, oh, there's all these
logical things and then stand next to a guy, the
president of Iran, who's just been done as a terrorist
in Australia. It just can't be done. You can't stand
next to one of the despots of the world, the
leader of North Korea. So I think there was a
I think that was a misjudgment by them because they
had too much of a logical brain about this and
(22:30):
not enough of a It just doesn't pass muster standing
in that queue. So I think they made a mistake
in doing it.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Wow justin you're looking bit amused.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Yeah, I'm intrigued because again New Zealand plays international primacy
incredibly well. We're friends to everybody and that's their role
in part but importantly in China too. We were the
first Western developed nation to have an FDA agreement with
China in two thousand and eight, and you know, in
large part thanks to governments of all who's but in
(22:59):
large part Helen Clark. She attended fifteen meetings for the
Chinese premiers and officials over many years.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
But I bet you right now, if we asked Telling
Clak if she'd have her time again, would she have gone,
I bet her answer would have been non.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
No.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
She's a woman of conviction. So she said it was
a line call.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Yeah, she has a line call and she's judged, and
she's judged it well, because you don't walk back history
for people that don't know. New Zealand's got an incredibly
strong historical connection with China. At Ewi Ali from Canterbury
went over and lived there for I think sixty years
of his life. He's revered in China and he broke
it Western relations for China across Anglo Saxon countries but
(23:37):
he also did a lot of good work building her education, reform, schools,
cooperatives and provincial areas, so he is revered there. Wellington's
a sister city with Beijing. Xujinping was a deputy mayor
of our other sister city in Chamin. We stood alongside
them in World War Two. You know, China's role is
often diminished in Western narratives around history and their contribution.
(23:59):
They held off five hundred thousand Japanese you know, troops,
and if it wasn't for the Chinese effort, you know,
New Zealand, nay Well and Australia may have been swamped
by Japanese troops. So we've got very strong connections. You
don't just walk back on that because the Chinese have
long memories and they remember, so then going I understand it.
Should the PEM have been there? Probably not, But for
(24:21):
Prime Minister's former Prime Ministers Key and Clark, I get it.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
I mean long memories. I don't think a guy called
Donald Trump is going to forget this either. I mean,
what do you think on that's going to I mean
you're dealing with these business people, feil you, you're rubbing
shoulders with them, I mean, what's it going to Is
he going to be a little bit upset when he
sees I mean he knows John Key.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
So yeah, I don't think that this is the point
Justice making that they were ex prime ministers as they
were in the Australian case, they were senior state premiers,
not not a federal officials and federal premiers. So I
don't think it'll damage anything with regard to the New
Zealand American relationship, only in the context that the Americans
don't seem to understand who we are, and Trump, the
Trump administration doesn't even seem to you know, that just
(25:03):
struggles with understanding what New Zealand's all about anyway. So
but Justin's just outlined the other point of the of
the argument. There are logical reasons why you'd turn up,
and to me, I'd have been their hands down if
it had in fact been a celebration or a commemoration
of the odieth anniversary of the Second World War. I
think that's correct. What it turned out to be, though,
(25:23):
was actually a big geopolitical slap in the face and
a beg getting together of the most repressive nations on Earth.
And that's where I think you need to make the
judgment call Hell and Clark made one judgment, or sir
to John Key, I've made another judgment. But I do accept.
It's really hard when the Chinese premiere says I want
you to come. It's really hard to say, hey, listen
to Caount, I've got to wash my hair that week hit.
(25:43):
You know, it's quite difficult to say no. So I
understand why they did it. I'm not criticizing them for it.
I just would have made a different judgment.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, and I couldn't have. I actually personally couldn't agree
with you more. It's Friday face off with Justin Lester
and pill O'Reilly selling your house for four five million
dollars got a little bit more easier now. Foreign foreigners
now invest five million dollars into New Zealand plus and
to New Zealand now can buy a home, which is
to me up over the value of five million. I
(26:10):
called it right from day one. I said it was
going to be five million. Everyone, so no, it's two
and a half three million dollars, just unlesson What do
you think about this idea?
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Oh look, I'm ambivalent. To be honest, I don't mind
if people come in, if they want to make their
life here. My focus, so I think, is that I
want us to grow our local companies and grow local
wealth and invest locally in housing at all across the
entire spectrum.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Unfortunately, for that we need.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
Cash absolutely, So grow it locally, because I tell you,
time it comes in goes out. The Americans cane they left,
the Japanese cane they left, the Chinese cane they left.
So what's going to be what's going to grow a cash?
Tell you what's going to grow at Key? We save
or investment having this locally, investing in local businesses. The
notion that we're going to get a few hundred foreigners
come in and buy five million dollar house. As soon
(26:57):
as things get hard, they'll leave. So it's not a
big product.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
They can't take the house with them. They can sell it, yeah,
but they still can't take the house with them. There
millions of dollars and then leave the house is still
there and worth missions.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Don't we some the golden visa too? Like I'm going
to bring in some golden visa. I'm going to bring
in some cash they in and manage funds. They can
get rid of that overnight. So I think the whole
thing to me is to be honest, a little bit
of a distraction, focus on growing our local economy, our
local wealth, local business. If someone wants to buy house
and want to move here, make it their life great
(27:29):
as long as they stay full O'Riley.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
I also don't think they should be able to invest
in the manage funds, So I think it should be
an actual businesses that need the cash, big engineering businesses,
business like the e Valley sawmills that's closing down. That's
the sort of stuff we want them to so.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
They are as a matter of fact, who are the
investors in many of the saw mills in New Zealand
Japanese and Malaysian companies. These Japanese companies have been here
since the sixties. US businesses are still here, Australian Australian
businesses are here in numbers, and they invest Chinese businesses here.
So I disagree with justin completely. Actually, these companies actually
do stay on the whole. I work with a big
(28:07):
saw milling business. It's been here for fifty years and
they are desperately keen to stay here.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
And employ New Zealanders.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Percise you're right, and export and export in Kiwi right.
There's never been a time in New Zealand, not in
our history that that wasn't a need for foreign capital.
There's always been a need for foreign capital. And it's in
fact foreign capital that drives the growth of New Zealand businesses.
And then those New Zealanders get jobs and they spin
out and they create they create wealth. So just say,
the idea that foreign capital has nothing to do with
(28:32):
our success just wrong. And it's a key driver in
fact of our national success at dimasion as well.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
And a major issue for New Zealand businesses, small and
medium and large is getting money. So if that money
is coming in and investing, that makes them get bigger,
employs people, and the economy gets better.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
And the point is if those guys come here, men
and women come here, and they're living here, they'll find
opportunities to invest. They will do what Justin wants them
to do. They will actually get out of the manage
funds and they'll start investing in their own business. I
know this because they talk to me about doing it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Great, take a short break, sorry, Justin, if you've.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
Got and I completely read of what Phil's saying on
that what I'm saying. It's not a panacea. This isn't
going to be but it's just a help.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
And we all need help, don't we.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, and we do.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
But I would very much focus on growing these local businesses.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Cool. I mean, we all want to grow local business
the Friday, right, I've got a great story to start
start Hots and knots. This morning, I had a couple
of minutes, so I sneaked to Prefab to get some
scrambled eggs. I had a couple of minutes before the show.
As I walked out, the door swings out this big, lumbering,
(29:41):
great looking Wellington college kids come through the door. The
second kid, his mate holds the door open. Let's me
come out, And I said, no, you come through. You
go with your mate. You know I didn't expect you know,
him to hold the door out. He refused to go through.
You wanted the old man to go out the door.
And I looked at him and I went, you've been
well brought up kid. And they're good service, I mean
(30:02):
not good service, good manners, just unless they give us
your hots and knots.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
Hot for me, Ardie Savia one hundred tests. He's running
out in Eden Park on the weekend. He has a
local kid done incredibly well. You know, his brother, hopefully
Julian will be there, his parents will be there and
his wife and his kids. And what a good kid.
You know. He's got the skills and the pace of
a back, he's got the power and strength of a forward.
And he's just such a humble man. You know. He
(30:28):
met his wife at high school I think here and
he's staunch welling Tonian too, so good on and congratulations.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Not hot, not hot.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Yeah. Look, we talked about earlier the City Sea Bridge,
if there are any construction cones down there, and chaining
myself to them alongside Filler Riley.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Yeah, you could lie.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
You just want some long term decisions. So I read
a week post earlier today about the beehive and it's
funny story. It was supposed to be built as a
Grand or Parliament building and beehive. Win didn't quite like
the beehive. It's really great, but it's for me emblematic
of New Zealand's history. We only ever do things by.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Halves and I still like looking at the Parliament and
the Bipe every time it comes on TV. I'm proud
fellow right it give me a hots and knots my hots.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Well, you might have talked to them during the week
talking of green shoots, that band row Tunda redevelopment and
fantastic with the fact that the garage project is coming
into say fortune favors. I'm going to get down there
and we can have a beer, absolutely just to say
thank you and wonderful stuff. So that's my heart. You know, great,
great that these hospital businesses are starting to including your
own business next, starting to really show some faith in
(31:33):
the future of the city.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Love it my not.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Is this the idiot Mike Joy who this doctor Mike
Joy who suggested that maybe dairy company executive should be hung,
should literally be hung by their neck because they were
polluting water and apparently killing babies. When that was called
out by Farahat of Farmers, he was asked to apologize
for that and refused and has only now done so
(31:55):
because his vice chancellor Orkrom University to Wellington, Nick Smith,
has sort of required him to. I suspect. So I
think that's absolutely outrageous to these guys who make out
their scientists and then say some of the silliest things
that have to withdraw. It's just not available to us
in our society these days.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
That stuff. No fill o'rily, but phil O'Reilly just a lesson.
Thank you both, very very much, thoroughly enjoyed having your company.
I love Friday face off, but I particularly enjoyed that
one today. So have a great weekend. Don't travel so much,
take some rest. If you've lost a bit of weightfill
I'm a bit worried about you, so just take some
take some rest and get looked after. Thank you both,
(32:32):
have a great weekend.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
By Friday days off and fifth day we hadline Duke
Partner's managing director and missed the airline himself.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Phil O'Reilly, Phil. You have been everywhere around the world
in the last few days.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
I've been a Canberra for the Australian Usual Leadership for HUM,
which is a big sort of shindig with senior business
leaders and politicians both sides of the Tasman. Talked to
Alban Easy and you know, charmers and these sorts of
characters and Nikola Willis and then back here for a
few days and then off to Singapore for some of
the business. So yeah, so flying visit.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
But I mean we caught up for a second socially
three weeks ago. You were going all over the world.
Between this period of time.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yeah, I'm back up to Europe in October two. So
I for travel around. But it's good fun. It gives
you just a unique view as a New Zealander when
you're in a lot of the rooms I'm in, I'm
the only key we there, so it just gives you
a unique view about what's actually happening.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
And Justin, I will come to you one second, but
I just want to get films because Bill, you were
pretty adamant twenty eight seconds ago before we went on here.
The people that you're talking to in these high level
meetings are saying this horrible term that I hate green shoots.
Things are turning and you think they are turning.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Yeah, here's an example. A major infrastructure provider who was
installing new power generation was telling me that a year
ago that he would have had his choice of subeast.
Now he's only got one or two because they're all busy. Right.
That's a classic green shoots. Now, are you seeing that
when you go shopping on the supermarket? Not yet. Major
engineering firms now getting busier designing infrastructure projects.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That's great.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
So what your hope is, you know, three six months
down the track, you'll see the impact of that in
real life jobs. But you know that's the important stuff.
The green shots are at the begind of town right now.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
And I'll come to come back to you there on that,
because Dot Loves Data's director and former mayor Justin Lester's
on my right hand side. Justin, that doesn't save those
people in Nelson from the eve Saw Sawmill that's down
one hundred and forty two jobs. God Carter hold Harvey says,
no more. Don't want to give it to an opposition,
don't want to let it keep going gone. So it's
(02:14):
great to talk about green shoots, but you know twenty
seven CapMan Do shops are closed, Smith Cities and liquid
Asia kitchen things.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
The list goes on, Yeah and morning. I couldn't agree more. Look,
it's great to see what and to hear what Fill
is hearing internationally, and we're seeing it in some of
the spending datas. We get ANSID spending data daily, so
we'll see it before anybody in the country, to be honest,
and we are seeing discretionary spending is improving year on
year for the first time in two years. And every
(02:43):
major center across New Zealand. So the fact that's happening
in all nine centers it's great. Whalington has been a
little bit slower, in the ninth centers it's improved for
the last three months, and Wellington it's just picked up
this month. So it's coming. But my question to that
is is it too late because we are seeing these
businesses now. Tip over, I'm increasingly talking to more hospitality
(03:03):
businesses that are clinging on by their fingertips. Of them
have mes financed lending at fourteen percent. Your property developers
as well, construction companies, a local build it's Sparky's tradees, plumbers, electricians,
and they're the ones that have been battling for the
last two years. So it's great, it's happening. It's good
that interest rates coming down. But we haven't helped ourselves.
We've kicked a few own goals. I look at sites
(03:25):
like a Mount Cock you know, we were building two
hunred and fifty apartments up there through coring order I'd
still went back on the back burner, and so we've
kicked a few own goals here too.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
So with your level of expertise, Phil, how quickly is
this going to turn around? Because I mean Justin talks
about fourteen percent. I know hospit people, thank god, I'm
not one of them right now that are borrowed at
twenty to twenty three percent for twelve months to try
and hope that it's going to survive, and if it doesn't,
here's the house.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
So when you say the economy, it's a very complex
thing in the economy. So kitchen things, that's that's of
course exposed to residential real estate and people buying houses
and doing them up. Well, that's just started happening right now.
Smith City probably probably poor strategy in terms of entering
the North Ld, And so you can you go through
each of those events.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
And reason they would get away with that. That's right.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
And the nature of economic downturns is you tend to
shake out those who are either unlucky or incompetent. And obviously,
see anybody we've talked about's incompetent, they might have just
been unlucky. You took out a learone at the wrong time,
made a poor strategic decision. But so the overall economy,
listening to what Justin's talking about in terms of consumer spending,
that's another that's a huge thing. If that's starting to happen,
then everybody will start to feel that that's the sugar
(04:37):
hit in the economy. But neither people. I'm talking to
a big infrastructure providers, big builders, you know, big big
manufacturing businesses, big digital businesses. So as they start to
crank their business, it just takes so off for that
to flow through. So Mum and dud film more confident
to go by TV.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
You still didn't quite give me the answer that a
lot of our listeners will be sitting there driving down
the road, A lot of small businesses they'll be driving
down the road.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
How soon, Oh it'll depend a heck of a lot.
So so I can't give you a better answer than this.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
That what you're telling me. I mean, you're a smart guy.
You're telling you.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I reckon.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
It's another three to six months away. That's my sense
of it. As those interestraight start to come through, we
get into a spring in a summer period. I'm saying
to business people we can't rely on government. They're doing
what they do. They're doing medium and long run stuff
like performing the rama. We need to get on with
this ourselves. We need to actually start doing some stuff
talking amongst ourselves, building some of our own capability. So
there is no one answer as the point. I mean,
(05:28):
if you're you're on a building firm cleaning on you
by your fingernails, and you're in residential building in Wellington,
g you might be might still be a while. But
I know also the builders I work with, they are
busy because they're good so it's a very there's no
one answer to this, but I think it's a three
to six months out as you more generally.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
A really good friend of mine who is actually a surgeon,
not a businessman, but he always says recessions, it's only
going to affect the bottom twenty five percent. So that's
an answer to your question about you know your builders
are good, so they're busy exactly, And I meant that
the ones that are is good an't getting there.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
The downtown cent to shake out and you get more
logical competition like that kind of phrase on as the
economy starts to grow. As economies grow and go and grow,
you'll get people getting into businesses and getting into restaurants
for example, or getting into particular lines of lines of
activity where they maybe not as well suited as they
should be, and actually and they fall over. And that's actually,
(06:22):
that's actually not an unhealthy thing. It's bad for those
businesses and their employees, but economically it's not necessarily an
unhealthy thing.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Let's talk local biolecttions by city council elections, which I
believe it or not, just in six weeks away.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
I think the voting papers come out this weekend.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, but basically we'll know who's our new mayor and
who's our new council in six weeks time. I mean
that seems incredibly quack, but there's a scholar in Australia
that's calling for the New Zealand councils to go through
a national council is to go through a national program
of finance, training and development, he says. Directors of boards
of New Zealand companies fill you know all about this
have to by law have the appropriate skills. But we
(07:00):
don't have any of these for counsel now, justin you
know a lot a little bit about this. I mean,
what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 5 (07:07):
Look, I know Andy Well he used to be a
researcher and I think professor at Mass University and pumpson
North so as well versed on local government politics. Yeah,
what he says is true. Look, it used to sometimes
confuse or confound me some of the decisions being made
around the council table, and you cringe at times. To
be honest, having said that, there is really good support
(07:28):
and training local New Zealand's excellent. They've got a program
called EQUIP. So we've re elected official up and down
the country can have as much training as they'd like.
It's a paid service that's paid by the councils. It's
money well invested.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
How does it work? Tell our listeners how it works?
Speaker 5 (07:43):
You have training courses. For example, when you become mayor,
there's mere school and you get together with all the
mayors around the country.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
How come you didn't go to it? How come Tory
didn't go to.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
How do you change? Mate?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
And look in the governance information. You can go on
iod courses, but you can lead a horse to water.
You can't make it drink. Okay, you can't change people's
personalities are in a TA. But having said that, I
would say that these people are elected for a reason.
Almost all individuals are elected because they are the best candidates.
They've campaigned the best, they have a profile. They're elected
(08:18):
because they're known in their communities, and sometimes from time
to time voters might make a mistake.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Phil My issue with this is that the whole idea
of how councilors are voted in the council situation is
a thing from the days gone by thirty or forty
years ago, where you knew mister Jones and Missus Mills,
and you knew the people that you were voting on
the world's changed, and the rules and the regulations around
it hasn't changed.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah, I agree with that, and I'd add to Justin's
point that the problem is not financial literacy. The problem
is dumb promises. The problem is people making promises that
they know to be untrue or incapable of being fulfilled.
And that's been a problem for thousands of years, by
the way, you know, ever since before democracy, these silly
promises were being made. See, what you're going to do
is to your very point, Nick, you've got to rely
(09:02):
on democracy. You've got to rely on this this give
and take where candidate says O'll do this, in another
camp that says it's impossible, and so on, And I
have a lot of trust and faith in the wisdom
of the voters as she worked it out. Here's the problem, though,
local democracy these days are so poorly presented and reported
in media. You know that use it would have been
in the old days, the dominion post or the newspapers
(09:23):
here would have covered this in some detail. You would
have known. Now you don't. And I think that that's
that's the problem here. We don't have enough of an
underpinning of democracy. This great radio station aside, you know,
we don't have enough of that kind of capacity for
the interplay of the politics to play out so that
those dumb ideas get found out.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Do you think that media are looking for the scoop
story rather than the story about the facts behind the counselor.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yeah, they're looking they're looking for that. And also, and
it's a sad thing. Also if only name recognition gets
you in, and that's also been a bit of an
issue of local policy.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
That's a reality at the moment.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It is.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
That's right, and it's it's sad. I mean, we should
be able to we should be able to have a
much more robust debate with candidates in the media, those
of us who don't turn up to some windy town
hall and Kilbernie to listen to them into a microphone.
We should be able to have that capacity to make
those decisions informed and we don't.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Just speaking of that, we've had the latest poll come
out to the male or the only poll that we've
seen officially come out for the willing to mayoralty rates,
and it shows Andrew Little is overwhelmingly and in front
by on thirty percent support, with rach Hung the closest
back in thirteen percent. I mean this is a coronation,
isn't it. I mean, can you possibly you can't tell
me that there's a Tory farno and the you know
(10:35):
what happened last time in the background here bloomin.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Well, hope not. Because Andrew is the best candidate and
that's why he's ahead, and that's why he's going to win.
Having said that, in the poll prior to the last election,
Paul Eagle was winning and he finished fourth on election day,
so things can change. This pole isn't taken too count STV.
When we polled prior to my election, was miles ahead
of the next best competitor, and I was on election
day too. But when it came to the knife and
(10:59):
iteration and STV, your competitor comes through and they beat you.
So you've just got to be careful. So Andrew won't
be take anything for granted. His campaign team won't be
taking anything for granted. But he is the best candidate.
And Phil's just mentioned it. You know, people making ludicrous promises.
We've got a candidate. I think he's polling second zero
percent rates increases, nice sugar hit slogan, but impossible to
(11:22):
deliver the last person that said they're going to deliver
you know, lower interest, sorry, rates increases. I think it
was andy that when he is can named for the mayoralty,
how did that pan out? Fourteen twelve percent didn't happen.
Didn't have the gumption all we all thought to actually
deliver what he set out to do. So just got
to be careful what you wish for.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Phil. We talked off record about this because you know,
I mentioned to you that the text machine lights up
every time Andrew Little's name comes up, you know, derogatory.
It's not too positive. You were pretty positive it was.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
And we spoke last time I was on the show
about him, and I think the thing that he'll do
he's not going to be a rock star as a mayor.
He's a he's a more mechanical sort of character, even
even knowing and personally as I have for thirty odd years.
But what he'll do is he'll listen. And I think
this council has done a poor job, like if I
could swear, a terrible, terrible job of listening. And they've
(12:17):
ideologically pushed ahead with things city changing things like the
city to Sea bridge. We make get a chance to
talk about where you know, they're just not listening to people.
And Andrew I think will listen, and certainly all my
experience of over dealing with them through all the time
I first met them when he was a union official
and I was employer's advocate years ago, he's always good
at listening. And you might not take on board everything
you say, but I think you'll see it in immediate
(12:38):
uptick in business confidence because business people will be able
to go see him and say we think this, and
you'll listen matter do it, but he'll listen. You won't
just ideologically go off and do what he thinks. The
other thing that's important is you can have a council there,
and I think we also need to be thinking about
which council we're electing here, because he could easily be
as Andy Foster was a mayor of one type, and
(12:59):
you know, the Green faction just tells them to sit
down because they're in control now. So we need to
be thinking about the total of the council here as
we think about voting as well.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Will well, can I just quickly go to you justin
on that. Will he be able to control a council
that might not be I mean there's a lot of
swing towards one side on the council voting, isn't it. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Absolutely, he will will be able to because he's an
experienced operator, and I agree with Phil. He listens and
that's I think one of the strengths of Andrew. He'll
listen to everybody. He has to make decisions because he's
divergent views, but he is sensible. He'll reach across the aisle.
And when I was here in the same issue, there
are people are campaigned against for the mayoralty, but we
(13:38):
got on fine. We had no issues around the table
on any of the votes.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Really.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
I mean I think the closest about nine to six,
so people can get on and that had been different
the previous training.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Can I just throw it out there that I met
you once before. The first time I met you was
when you were mayor and I was presenting something to
you and I walked out of that. I was with
the GM of the sport that I was involved with,
and I walked out and I said, you know what,
I was impressed with that guy for And she goes,
what and I said, he listened. You were a listener
and people always talked about that, so that there, I
(14:08):
just wanted to throw that out there, justin I'm going
to come to you first on this. There's been so
much talk about this in the last couple of weeks
in Wellington. The text machines lit up. We've talked about it.
The Wellington Civic Trust say it won't be appealing a
court judgment which would allow the council to proceed with
the demolition of the city to see bridge. This is
despite protests urging this decision. They're all trying to talk
(14:30):
about it. Also talked the protesters will sit on it.
Where do you stand on this?
Speaker 5 (14:35):
Look, I'm really firm and my view, and this is
one that I've openly suggested to a number of councilors
and mayor. I think it's a really silly decision. This
came to me when I was mare about ten years ago,
an officerly initiative, and the officers have always wanted to
get rid of.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Can I just make it clear you think it's a
silly idea? Pulling it down?
Speaker 5 (14:55):
Still the idea, sorry, pulling it down? There are other alternatives.
The bridge itself is not prone in most circumstances. You know,
the notion that you're going to have three or four
thousand people standing on it while in quake hits Yeah,
an infintesimal risk, but such as life likewise walking across
the road is if the bridge isn't there as at risk.
(15:15):
So I think it's a really really silly decision to
put it down. I think there are much better and
more pragmatic comes. I don't believe it needs to be
strengthened to the level they're proposing. And I'm suspicious because
this came to me ten years ago. They had some
grand plans around revitalizing the precinct and I thought, I
can't afford it. Love the bridge, Wellingtonians do too.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Leave it alone right now, Phil, The scary thing for
me is that talk about the double decker buses that
they want to go down, and Justin will be able
to tell us where that's right won't fit underneath it.
There's you know, au terrior motives to it. Plus the
government are going to make a new stand on the
on the earthquake issue, aren't they, And shortly, why would
we not just wait to hear that? Well?
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I agree it's just it's classic. I mean, it's one
of the It was a Wellingtonian. I actually take tourists
there and say, look at this cool thing, you know,
because it's a cool place, and I'd explain what's going
on with with the railings and so on. And what
I think great things about Wellington is that bridge connects
the waterfront with the city and that's really important, right,
and so if you take it down, you've now got
(16:18):
the six lane highway all the way through, disconnecting you
from what's going on. So I actually think it's a
great bridge and if you can, I'm adjusted on this.
If you're gonna do anything, sure deal a bit of
strengthening on it, but don't just take it down in
some sort of ideological view, more particularly making a decision
as a counsel about it. When the hoardings are up,
we're about to vote onto you guys someone that's the
(16:38):
essence of ideological stuff and sort of two fingers at
the public. It's outrageous what's going on there?
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Is there anything that the public can do right now?
Two people in the supermarket visit for my lunch yesterday said,
is there anything that we can do? We're up in
arms about it. Is there anything I looked at them
and said, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Absolutely media pressure and counselors being clearly aware that their
jobs are at risk. And if Walingtonians come out of
force and a number and say, look we love that bridge,
we don't want it down. We don't believe this is
a pragmatic decision with all the best necard information, leave
it alone and certainly leave it for the next council
(17:15):
to determine. It shouldn't be rushed. I would be very
low to see any construction equipment on site in the
next couple of weeks, So give it time. It's not
a risk now, there's no agency or rush. What's your
gut telling you, Uh, that'd be very foolhardy to works
underway right now. Really for our newsroom believes is cones
(17:37):
down there today?
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Oh gee, I just think you know you can you
think of yourself as a Meeral candidate standing in front
of those things saying I don't want this to happen.
I mean, that's pretty you could see there's some serious
politics about that.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
For a Meeral candidate, you'd be the first one down
thereat and say, look, this is going to stop right now,
and that person's going to sweep into victory.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Why is no one doing that yet? Do you think
they still will do it? I don't know. We'll see
what happens.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Well. I mean, the word is that the cones are
going out this after that, I'm going to check on
the way back to the.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Other I'll lie down.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Come on, come on with me. That's probably the best
offer I've had to come down, light out, but I
think I'll declined. Gosh, we're not making light of the
seriousness of the bridge. By the way, the idea would
be like down next to fill O'Riley wherever the problem
was that. I want to talk about something that's kind
(18:35):
of really concerning me. Pill O'Reilly and Justin Leicster Friday
face off Peter S. Peter Jackson's largest business, were to FX,
has revealed that it's just got a fifty nine million
dollar loss a mid restructure which one hundred staff are
expected to lose their job. Phil this is our flagship. Come,
I mean, this is what makes Wellington great, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (18:57):
One of them?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Lots of things? But you know what I mean, it's
like you know the movies. The whole thing that. I mean,
let's cut to the chase. It makes Wellington, what you know,
a little bit better than we are.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
I no agree. And it's one thing. What's another one
that there's things I take tourists to, you know, they
all want to see, you know, where it was Lord
of the Rings filmed, and go around there and I
show them just how kind of key we it is,
you know, in old state houses and stuff down. There's what,
as I understand it, what's happening is there's this challenge
through COVID and then through the actors strike. There was
this big strike in Hollywood you might recall, where movies
(19:30):
weren't made and that's causing them a problem because they
often come in these post production guys. As I understand it,
coming towards the end, I may be wrong on this,
but that's that's designerstood the story. So this is actually
a problem that's not of New Zealand's making. It's a
problem of Hollywood's making where they just don't have that
kind of that that pathway movies. Now, you'd hope that
they'll pick that up. They'd hope that they'll get get
(19:51):
it back and on the good news, James Cameron now
in New Zealand, citizen and keen to make movies here.
So I suspect it's a temporary thing rather to do
with the economic cycle of movie making. But obviously see
outcome for Wilmington, no question.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Justin what are you hearing?
Speaker 5 (20:04):
Look, one hundredercent agree with you. Look, it's an important
component of Wellington. It's part of the city's reputation and
brand as well, and it brings people from.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
All over the world.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
Look, I'm one of my daughter's best friends from Australia.
They're here. They work for Wetter dropped a guy off.
He's a water polo coach. He's from California, who lives here.
Is family's back in California. He contributes to the local community.
So what I'm hearing from them is that the pipeline
actually looks okay second half of next year. But it's
a tough time between now and then. But I've got confidence,
(20:34):
given again the reputations and the experience of Sarah to
Taylor and Peter Jackson and James Cameron, that they'll they'll
bring the content here, they'll get it here, and we
have to help them and make sure it works.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, do anything we can to support them one hundred percent.
I want to get to you on this swim, Phil,
because this is going to be right down your alley,
and I've got no idea which way you're going to
swim on it.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Now.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I know normally which way you're going to swing. On
this one, I've got no idea. Former Prime Ministers Sir
John Key, well let's keep it within the R eighteen
thinks The former Prime Minister Sir John Key and Helen
Clark attended the Chinese military parade to commemorate the eightieth
anniversary of the end of Second World War. They shook
hands with people, you know, big high up, the presidents
(21:18):
of countries. I mean, what's your gut on this? Did
you think anything of it? Or when the media started
attacking it, then look at it again, what was your thought.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
It's been a big deal in Australia too, where Dan
Andrews and Bob Carr, two to the senior state premiers,
also turned up. I see Helen Clark said, you know
it was a judgment call. It was a fine call,
you know, and and the logical part of me says, yes,
that's right. Because Helen Clark was the Prime Minister when
we signed the Chinese FTA. That's been a massive resriver
(21:48):
of our success as a country over the last twenty years.
There's no question about that. John Key had a very
special relationship with g and still does. That was massively
important to us when he was Prime Minister. So that level,
if we want to be logical and look at the
PowerPoint dex and so on, you'd say, maybe they turn up.
And here's the problem. We talk to clients about this
all the time. You can be as logical as you
like and still not part what we call the front
page of the dominion test. It's just not going to
(22:09):
pass that test. You can't say, oh, there's all these
logical things and then stand next to a guy, the
president of Iran, who's just been done as a terrorist
in Australia. It just can't be done. You can't stand
next to one of the despots of the world, the
leader of North Korea. So I think there was a
I think that was a misjudgment by them because they
had too much of a logical brain about this and
(22:30):
not enough of a It just doesn't pass muster standing
in that queue. So I think they made a mistake
in doing it.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Wow justin you're looking bit amused.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Yeah, I'm intrigued because again New Zealand plays international primacy
incredibly well. We're friends to everybody and that's their role
in part but importantly in China too. We were the
first Western developed nation to have an FDA agreement with
China in two thousand and eight, and you know, in
large part thanks to governments of all who's but in
(22:59):
large part Helen Clark. She attended fifteen meetings for the
Chinese premiers and officials over many years.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
But I bet you right now, if we asked Telling
Clak if she'd have her time again, would she have gone,
I bet her answer would have been non.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
No.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
She's a woman of conviction. So she said it was
a line call.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Yeah, she has a line call and she's judged, and
she's judged it well, because you don't walk back history
for people that don't know. New Zealand's got an incredibly
strong historical connection with China. At Ewi Ali from Canterbury
went over and lived there for I think sixty years
of his life. He's revered in China and he broke
it Western relations for China across Anglo Saxon countries but
(23:37):
he also did a lot of good work building her education, reform, schools,
cooperatives and provincial areas, so he is revered there. Wellington's
a sister city with Beijing. Xujinping was a deputy mayor
of our other sister city in Chamin. We stood alongside
them in World War Two. You know, China's role is
often diminished in Western narratives around history and their contribution.
(23:59):
They held off five hundred thousand Japanese you know, troops,
and if it wasn't for the Chinese effort, you know,
New Zealand, nay Well and Australia may have been swamped
by Japanese troops. So we've got very strong connections. You
don't just walk back on that because the Chinese have
long memories and they remember, so then going I understand it.
Should the PEM have been there? Probably not, But for
(24:21):
Prime Minister's former Prime Ministers Key and Clark, I get it.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
I mean long memories. I don't think a guy called
Donald Trump is going to forget this either. I mean,
what do you think on that's going to I mean
you're dealing with these business people, feil you, you're rubbing
shoulders with them, I mean, what's it going to Is
he going to be a little bit upset when he
sees I mean he knows John Key.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
So yeah, I don't think that this is the point
Justice making that they were ex prime ministers as they
were in the Australian case, they were senior state premiers,
not not a federal officials and federal premiers. So I
don't think it'll damage anything with regard to the New
Zealand American relationship, only in the context that the Americans
don't seem to understand who we are, and Trump, the
Trump administration doesn't even seem to you know, that just
(25:03):
struggles with understanding what New Zealand's all about anyway. So
but Justin's just outlined the other point of the of
the argument. There are logical reasons why you'd turn up,
and to me, I'd have been their hands down if
it had in fact been a celebration or a commemoration
of the odieth anniversary of the Second World War. I
think that's correct. What it turned out to be, though,
(25:23):
was actually a big geopolitical slap in the face and
a beg getting together of the most repressive nations on Earth.
And that's where I think you need to make the
judgment call Hell and Clark made one judgment, or sir
to John Key, I've made another judgment. But I do accept.
It's really hard when the Chinese premiere says I want
you to come. It's really hard to say, hey, listen
to Caount, I've got to wash my hair that week hit.
(25:43):
You know, it's quite difficult to say no. So I
understand why they did it. I'm not criticizing them for it.
I just would have made a different judgment.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, and I couldn't have. I actually personally couldn't agree
with you more. It's Friday face off with Justin Lester
and pill O'Reilly selling your house for four five million
dollars got a little bit more easier now. Foreign foreigners
now invest five million dollars into New Zealand plus and
to New Zealand now can buy a home, which is
to me up over the value of five million. I
(26:10):
called it right from day one. I said it was
going to be five million. Everyone, so no, it's two
and a half three million dollars, just unlesson What do
you think about this idea?
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Oh look, I'm ambivalent. To be honest, I don't mind
if people come in, if they want to make their
life here. My focus, so I think, is that I
want us to grow our local companies and grow local
wealth and invest locally in housing at all across the
entire spectrum.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Unfortunately, for that we need.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
Cash absolutely, So grow it locally, because I tell you,
time it comes in goes out. The Americans cane they left,
the Japanese cane they left, the Chinese cane they left.
So what's going to be what's going to grow a cash?
Tell you what's going to grow at Key? We save
or investment having this locally, investing in local businesses. The
notion that we're going to get a few hundred foreigners
come in and buy five million dollar house. As soon
(26:57):
as things get hard, they'll leave. So it's not a
big product.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
They can't take the house with them. They can sell it, yeah,
but they still can't take the house with them. There
millions of dollars and then leave the house is still
there and worth missions.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Don't we some the golden visa too? Like I'm going
to bring in some golden visa. I'm going to bring
in some cash they in and manage funds. They can
get rid of that overnight. So I think the whole
thing to me is to be honest, a little bit
of a distraction, focus on growing our local economy, our
local wealth, local business. If someone wants to buy house
and want to move here, make it their life great
(27:29):
as long as they stay full O'Riley.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
I also don't think they should be able to invest
in the manage funds, So I think it should be
an actual businesses that need the cash, big engineering businesses,
business like the e Valley sawmills that's closing down. That's
the sort of stuff we want them to so.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
They are as a matter of fact, who are the
investors in many of the saw mills in New Zealand
Japanese and Malaysian companies. These Japanese companies have been here
since the sixties. US businesses are still here, Australian Australian
businesses are here in numbers, and they invest Chinese businesses here.
So I disagree with justin completely. Actually, these companies actually
do stay on the whole. I work with a big
(28:07):
saw milling business. It's been here for fifty years and
they are desperately keen to stay here.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
And employ New Zealanders.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Percise you're right, and export and export in Kiwi right.
There's never been a time in New Zealand, not in
our history that that wasn't a need for foreign capital.
There's always been a need for foreign capital. And it's in
fact foreign capital that drives the growth of New Zealand businesses.
And then those New Zealanders get jobs and they spin
out and they create they create wealth. So just say,
the idea that foreign capital has nothing to do with
(28:32):
our success just wrong. And it's a key driver in
fact of our national success at dimasion as well.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
And a major issue for New Zealand businesses, small and
medium and large is getting money. So if that money
is coming in and investing, that makes them get bigger,
employs people, and the economy gets better.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
And the point is if those guys come here, men
and women come here, and they're living here, they'll find
opportunities to invest. They will do what Justin wants them
to do. They will actually get out of the manage
funds and they'll start investing in their own business. I
know this because they talk to me about doing it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Great, take a short break, sorry, Justin, if you've.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
Got and I completely read of what Phil's saying on
that what I'm saying. It's not a panacea. This isn't
going to be but it's just a help.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
And we all need help, don't we.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, and we do.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
But I would very much focus on growing these local businesses.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Cool. I mean, we all want to grow local business
the Friday, right, I've got a great story to start
start Hots and knots. This morning, I had a couple
of minutes, so I sneaked to Prefab to get some
scrambled eggs. I had a couple of minutes before the show.
As I walked out, the door swings out this big, lumbering,
(29:41):
great looking Wellington college kids come through the door. The
second kid, his mate holds the door open. Let's me
come out, And I said, no, you come through. You
go with your mate. You know I didn't expect you know,
him to hold the door out. He refused to go through.
You wanted the old man to go out the door.
And I looked at him and I went, you've been
well brought up kid. And they're good service, I mean
(30:02):
not good service, good manners, just unless they give us
your hots and knots.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
Hot for me, Ardie Savia one hundred tests. He's running
out in Eden Park on the weekend. He has a
local kid done incredibly well. You know, his brother, hopefully
Julian will be there, his parents will be there and
his wife and his kids. And what a good kid.
You know. He's got the skills and the pace of
a back, he's got the power and strength of a forward.
And he's just such a humble man. You know. He
(30:28):
met his wife at high school I think here and
he's staunch welling Tonian too, so good on and congratulations.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Not hot, not hot.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Yeah. Look, we talked about earlier the City Sea Bridge,
if there are any construction cones down there, and chaining
myself to them alongside Filler Riley.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Yeah, you could lie.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
You just want some long term decisions. So I read
a week post earlier today about the beehive and it's
funny story. It was supposed to be built as a
Grand or Parliament building and beehive. Win didn't quite like
the beehive. It's really great, but it's for me emblematic
of New Zealand's history. We only ever do things by.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Halves and I still like looking at the Parliament and
the Bipe every time it comes on TV. I'm proud
fellow right it give me a hots and knots my hots.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Well, you might have talked to them during the week
talking of green shoots, that band row Tunda redevelopment and
fantastic with the fact that the garage project is coming
into say fortune favors. I'm going to get down there
and we can have a beer, absolutely just to say
thank you and wonderful stuff. So that's my heart. You know, great,
great that these hospital businesses are starting to including your
own business next, starting to really show some faith in
(31:33):
the future of the city.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Love it my not.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Is this the idiot Mike Joy who this doctor Mike
Joy who suggested that maybe dairy company executive should be hung,
should literally be hung by their neck because they were
polluting water and apparently killing babies. When that was called
out by Farahat of Farmers, he was asked to apologize
for that and refused and has only now done so
(31:55):
because his vice chancellor Orkrom University to Wellington, Nick Smith,
has sort of required him to. I suspect. So I
think that's absolutely outrageous to these guys who make out
their scientists and then say some of the silliest things
that have to withdraw. It's just not available to us
in our society these days.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
That stuff. No fill o'rily, but phil O'Reilly just a lesson.
Thank you both, very very much, thoroughly enjoyed having your company.
I love Friday face off, but I particularly enjoyed that
one today. So have a great weekend. Don't travel so much,
take some rest. If you've lost a bit of weightfill
I'm a bit worried about you, so just take some
take some rest and get looked after. Thank you both,
(32:32):
have a great weekend.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com