November 27, 2025 • 32 mins
Nick Mills wraps the week with former Upper Hutt Mayor Wayne Guppy and lawyer and former MP Stephen Franks.
They get into the hot topics of the week starting with the latest OCR cut then into the proposed reform of regional councils.
Guppy and Franks also discuss the Tom Phillips inquiry, Luxon’s leadership coup rumours, Nationals police target and give their hots and nots for the week.
Plus, the Wellington City Council Deloitte's report. What should, and will Mayor Andrew Little and CEO Matt Prosser do? Stephen Franks and Wayne Guppy share their thoughts.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday Fatime with Goodovic Property Management, a better rental experience
for all. Visit Kunovic dot code on its head on Thursday.
Dozen starts.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Seven minutes past eleven Friday Place on the most exciting
hour of radio on Wellington Mornings. Today we've been joined.
We've been bringing a couple of very important people to
chat about the events of the previous week. We've got
this morning, Wayne Guppy, former Upper Hut mayor and general
good guy, Morning.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Morning, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
How are you? How's retirement? You look mighty fine.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Company of time on me at the gym.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
You're looking good. Thank you looking good for a fifty
two year old. And Stephen Frank's lawyer and former MP,
you're looking great too. You're on the phone. I'm shooting
all the time.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
At the moment, we were just discussing that I only
need to fill the fridge. Now there's no joy in
it after testosa.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
And don't tell me it's got already. Let's start the
show with the o cr KD again. Stephen Franks, what
are your thoughts. Where are you? What's going on? You
in your lawyer's office. So you're getting developers starting to ring,
You've got people all started getting fired up. Money's cheaper
away again now all lot.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Well here's that, that's what happens. But I've never been
a property lawyer.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Okay, but you've got your work in a lawyer's office.
So but someone must actually do properly.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
You know, we don't do any property work. I've always
In fact, my friends just retired and my wife said, well,
what are we going to do for a lawyer? I
wouldn't dare touch a property transition?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Why do you look like a property lawyer?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
All right, but what happens now? Does anything change?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Well? I think Cameron Baggriy had a good comment the
other day just saying it's very rare that you get
real interest rates lower than two and a half. I
think you said two and a half or three percent,
and that's about what they are now. So he said
he was going to fix his mortgage at current rates
because he thinks they'll only go up. But he knows he.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Said four years, didn't he actually said I'll fix. I'm
going to fix for four year I spoke to all
my family straight after I heard the same thing. I said, hey, fix, fix, fix,
But you don't want to give that advice to anyone,
do you.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Well, I just pass on his advice. But I do
think that there's an awful lot of inflation looking as
if it's coming and our exchange rates gone low. That's
going to come back into the imported goods there is,
There are lots of green shoots in the economy, and
consumers aren't feeling it yet. But even our line of business,
(02:58):
we know people are getting they're getting buoyant, they're getting optimistic,
they want to do things, they want to start businesses.
So you know, I think the inflation and you ual,
when there's a bit of inflation on the reserve Bank
has to increase rates. So it looks as if it'll
be a low point.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Right. Wait, Gebby, what are you thinking? What are you feeling?
I mean, you've you know, got a bit of time
on your hands. You're a bright guy. You had been
sitting looking at this thinking, you know when you walk
down the streets of people feeling a bit more buoyant.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yes, yeah, and I think you know, I mean, I
agree with Stephen that would inflate. I think there will
be some inflation you only look at because Australia are
struggling with it now issues, but certainly from the point
of view that people are starting to think that they're
going to have some more money in their pocket. And
that's a psychological thing, and I think that'll overcome some
of the gloom that we get from the from the
(03:46):
if you like, from the news and the reporters every
single day. I mean, you know that has an effect
regardless of regardless of what the indust rates were or are. Psychologically,
if you every day get the thing that things are
doom and gloom and the city's no good.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
And we were discussing I can't listen to Morning Report.
I haven't listened to it for years because I need
to be positive. I want to get stuff done during
the day. I listen to that constant gloom and depression
telling me all about all the losers who were complaining.
Is it's really wearing and there's been a there's been
(04:21):
two years of grieving by a lot of media people
for the loss of the government they wanted, yes, and
it wears on a country.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Do you think it is that or do you think
that because I often get accused of that myself. They
say I'm too negative. But if you're just telling the
story how it is, I mean that should be what
you know, discussing the things of how they are. Shouldn't
they be? That's how they are.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
The problem is, I believe with the media is that
they actually they go to the giving you the bottom
line all the time. They're giving you the worst scenario
all the time. And it's constant. As Stephen said, and look,
I think again, if we go back to that with
that indust rates people starting to feel and the other
thing again, you know, psychologically my experience when I was
in business, you get some good, fine weather, you get
(05:05):
into summer, and against psychologically there are people start to.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Sku Again, what are we going to do about the
all blacks?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Well that's an issue we'll have to talk about because
that is depressing.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But why, I mean, I get it, I totally get it.
And in my line of work, you know, summer is
better times. But I mean, why do we feel better
because the sun shining?
Speaker 4 (05:26):
We're human?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I look, I look at the animals on the farm.
You can tell when they are feeling better, and well.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They're feeling better when you did you walk around with
a gun over your shoulder. I'm sure they're feeling pretty much.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Interestingly, when COVID during the lockdown and hunting wasn't allowed
within I'd say within two weeks, they knew that people
went hunting them, that they were coming out and looking
at us. And it was the raw which is in
April and walk up the creek and they were out
balowing and fighting each other in the open, Whereas it
(06:02):
can't have been anything other than social communication because they
don't see a lot of anyway. It's really really interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
That is interesting because you know what happened to be
a couple of weeks ago, and I thought about this
and I a bit to talk about it, but I'll
talk to you guys about it. I was coming to
work at you know, five clock, five thirty in the morning,
and there was a couple of seagulls eating something on
the road. As I drove up. They didn't move, They
did not move. They stayed there as the car came
towards them. Now, I think that they've worked out that hey,
(06:32):
cars aren't going to run us over anymore. I mean,
thirty years ago, your eyes and your eyes, and my
eyes would light up and bomb. They'll be God. But
now it's not not the right thing to do, is it.
I don't think I running over you know what, to
me like they wouldn't. They know now that they can
they can safely eat on the road and no one's
going to run them over because that's society.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Yeah, they know a lot. The cattle, the feral cattle
on our place know the difference between us, the various people.
They've never challenged. They've never threatened Kathy or me in
thirty years. But the guy who used to try and
muster them, and did in fact muster a lot, he
couldn't go into the in some areas without a rifle.
(07:15):
They would actually come and try and knock them off
his quad bike.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, let's take a short break and come back with
regional cous cost. We went all over the world, bere
didn't we in five minutes. That's the interesting part of
Friday face off. Former RPA hutmeyor Wayne Guppy and Stephen Franks,
Wellington lawyer, will take a short break and come back.
And I want to ask them about the idea of
getting rid of regional counsels. I'm sure Wayne Guppy's got
(07:41):
lots to say on that. It's Friday face off. Gosh
what we talk about in the ad break, So I
mean we couldn't put them on here, could we, Stephen
Franks and Wayne Guppy. Regional Councils. Nationals has proposed abolishing
regional council replacing them with a panel of regional mayors. Gubbs,
I've got to start with you on this one. Come on,
you've got no ex to gride anything to gride. Now
(08:02):
you're a free man, you can speak it.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
No.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Well, I agree with the proposal, there's no question about that.
There's that that that and look, with the changes in
functions of what the central government has been doing, then
you've got to look and say what's the best way
of delivering local government in the future. And I think
what they're proposing will only work if they actually have
(08:25):
to look at the whole structure of local government. Just
taking out the regional councils will mean I think there
has to be talks about future strategy of amalgamations.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, that's obviously their first stay. I mean, we're going
to fire up Stephen in a minute, because we've already
had this conversation six months ago with it.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
But carry on it will, I mean, there's no question
about it. And you've got to remember there's been a
lot of there's been a lot more issues about regionalizing
things and centralization of something. So a lot of the
function you take the water out of out of what
local government does. So there's a lot of a lot
of the functions that local government do today are not
going to be done by local government.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Did it surprise you because it came out of the
blue though.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Well no, because if you think about it, you think
about Minister Jones and company, he'd be saying that for
a while and so the writing was on the wall.
And look, the issue with regional councils is they have
they've sat under the radar, they've and they can make
life tough for people. And there's a lot of examples
that are around the country where where regional councils have
(09:25):
made things tough. So you know, changes absolutely right what
they're doing. But I think there will be bigger change
than just taking out that layer of regional council.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Well Wellington Regional Council was one of the example cases
of it. I think they got hit with six hundred
thousand dollars because they'd abused their power, their planning power
or their resource management powers. But there was one woe array.
I don't know whether it was regional or district, but
it was a council got hit with a seven million
dollar a quarter award against them because again they had
(09:54):
lied that abused their powers. The regional councils have been
nests of people who gravitate there because they just love
telling people, ordering people around. I don't think this will work.
I think I think it's utterly irrelevant whether they have
elected councilors or a council of mayors until they take
a whole of functions off them and say get rid
(10:14):
of the people, so they can't do this stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So I'm trying to work out what you mean by that.
If they are they talking about getting rid of the
whole thing.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Well, no, the announcement is that they are going to
put the existing councils under the management of a committee
of mayors, right, and so that eliminates the elections there.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
But they're still still the actual region or the stays
there run by someone out. Yeah, I mean, I.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Won't draw a firm judgment on until we see what
the RMA reforms do. But they actually have to take
away a lot of power to interfere and they have
to make it show that those people's jobs are gone,
because otherwise they'll just look for new ways of asserting themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, does that concern you, Oh?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Absolutely absolutely, it's I mean, it's it's a fine print,
you know, that fine detail that that's because because it could.
I mean, as Stephen said, it's highly likely that it
won't work as well as they want it, so they
need to that needs to be But it's progress, it's
the start of what needs to happen.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
It's showing willingness to do something significant, not just tinker.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yes, now, Andrew Little said that this so harmed partnership
between the councils and crowns in terms of regulation, a
regulating environment and molded Stephen Briggs, I mean you would
have heard that, you would have seen that. I mean,
what is he right or is he just well.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
He's he's making stuff up. For thirty years the treaty,
the Waitangi Tribunal and the government said quite clearly that
local government were not partners in the treaty to the
extent there is a partnership and it was between the
Crown and Ewie. He Andrew's just picking up the last
(11:51):
ten years of it's fashionable now to say that the
partnership has to be inflicted everywhere and no one quite
knows what it is. But when you have undefined terms
like tea kunga and the principles, people can make it
up as I go along, and career politicians like that,
and so do career judges and anyone else who can
(12:13):
make stuff up to eat wheel power. So I can
understand why he's saying it, but he's dead wrong. There
was there is no obligation for Mari or right from
the treaty to have special political privileges.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, I agree with Stephen. The fact the matter is
that those relationships are with the Crown and certainly from
the point of view of any relationship with local government.
I don't agree with what Andrew's saying at all.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I felt, I mean, I fully support, you know, has
what he's been doing, and he's been doing a good job.
But I felt that was a strange thing to come
out and push.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Well in his circles. He's got to stay on side
with the people that labor have given him, and they
love all this declarative stuff, this performative stuff about partnership.
It's part of their religion. They don't. I'm not a Christian,
but I think one of the reasons why our politics
is so distorted and so partisan is could people need
(13:16):
things that they feel transcendent. They need to make sacrifices,
they need to do penance, and so they do. They
take up beliefs that are hugely expensive and risky and
pretend the thing that they have no choice but to
do them. And one of the things that they like
saying is that they've got no choice but to hand
over power to unelected Mari right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Good points. Tom Phillips, we had to bring this up again.
The government has launched a three million dollar inquiry into
the Tom Phillips case. Wayne Guppy, what are your thoughts.
Do you agree that there should be an inquiry?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Well, I mean yes to a point that there needs
to be. I mean simply that there are a lot
of there's a lot of unanswered questions. You a lot
of things did, particularly with many of the government departments
and agencies. You know, this went on for four years
and nearly four years, and certainly from the point of view,
certainly from the children's point of view, that was with
(14:11):
the right process or with the right the right agencies
act correctly through that process.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, Steven, I'm really interested in your take on this
because you are a hunter, have been a hunter all
your life. Right, would you have found them?
Speaker 4 (14:24):
No? Not if all those people are looking, I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Do you reckon they were really looking?
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, I'm sure they were looking. Yeah, it's it's really
easy to create conspiracy theories. But thick bush, I know
sometimes that are there's I will see on our on
the fringes of the national part of the regional the
forest park, I'll see forty deer. But most of the
time you can go the entire day and you won't
(14:51):
see one. So if someone wants to hide, I mean
it's a bit different now with imaging technology and the
high tech drones. Yeah, but a lot of that stuff
doesn't work in big trees. It's looking for image that
are obscured. Even if it's.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
So, can I just ask you, because this is really
interesting to me, if we put the Special Forces Army
in there to find them when they have found.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Them, I don't know. I mean, I think it's more
likely that there were people in the community helping them,
that's a more likely situation. And when you've got that,
and there's books thesis written on terrorism, if you've got
two percent of your population willing to commit violence and
(15:38):
ten percent supporting them, you can take over a country.
So the critical thing is the proportion in the community
who might have been helping. Right inquiry, good thing. I
think it's a bit of a waste of money. I mean,
Tamariki is always in the gun and that always been
asked to do impossible things. The state can't be the
(15:58):
father and mother if you've got crap parents in the end,
unless you're going to simply take the kids away early on,
you will continue to have these sort of things that
they always say never again, but like it's impossible.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
It always happens again only a couple of weeks ago.
In sense, I mean we saw it. So you can't
do when you've got anything you want to add.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Certainly from the point of view of of of you know,
the state can't be there if you like the Guardian
the whole time, I mean, we've got to be but
we don't. We don't make the tough course and I.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Always feel that we don't do enough as a society.
I mean you, you've Stephen, you cracked it. Really was
saying that you know a lot of people were helping it,
So society was helping it. Someone would have known something someone.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
I don't think that's one of the faults they often
talk about we should be doing something different. I don't
have any power to do it. I'm not allowed to
interfere it. It's different in communities and probably even our
own two generations go where any parent in fact, local
council and TI happy. He took his belt off and
(17:07):
gave me a good hiding when he caught me and
his son trying to break street lights, and we were
we deserved it, and my parents would have said good
on you. But we've eliminated that.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
What, I don't feel any responsibility or guilt about these
failures because I don't have power to do anything about them.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Well, you must have a bit more power than the
strap though surely.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Families do, yeah, and extended families do. But that's but
I said, they do not get involved.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And then a lot of people would have known that
someone was helping them, a lot of there would be
a lot of stuff in the community no one did
anything about, Well, I.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Don't We don't know if no one did anything about.
We just don't know whether whether that. Probably the cops
had a pretty good suspicion, but suspicions not enough. They
didn't need something more, and.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
They obviously acted quite cautiously, wondering what the consequences would be.
But certainly stem did the only was the only two
street lights? Y happy at the time, and I wonder they.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
No one you got the belt got the belt? Did
it affect you? I was it affected you? Because I
got I got caned at school and I reckon it
mentally affected me. I really do. I don't want to
say so did it affect you?
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Oh? I was in the air when we were strapped
and cameed a lot. I was caned in the sixth form.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well you shouldn't be a damn Larry if you're a
naughty boy, really should you come on? Twenty nine minutes
past eleven, we've got strapped and caned a lot. Stephen
Franks and Wayne Guppy. I bet you never came at school,
wy Guppy?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yes, I was.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Was he weird?
Speaker 4 (18:43):
It didn't It wasn't a big deal.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It was a big deal.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
For most For most people, their parents were doing it anyway.
It was more structure than at home. And it's one
of the things about when when they abolished corporate punishment
in schools, Wolding, who was the minister, the Labor minister
at the time, said our schools are going to become hellholes.
They are the the kids are going to be going
(19:09):
to institutions where the teachers no longer have as much
power as their own parents.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Well, I can honestly say neither of my parents ever
laid a hand on me. Ever, not once.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
We were probably a good boy.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Time for ads, Time for a news break are past eleven,
Stephen Freaks and Way Guffy. I definitely want a good boy,
But my parents didn't believe and whackon me.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
But but but I did when I needed it.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, where do we get to? Where do we get to?
On Friday Face Off, Stephen Franks and Wayne Guppy on
the show Friday Face Off, Let's talk about rumors about
rumors about rumors. Hither du proce out on the last
Friday Today week ago, came out real strong, real strong,
new leader of the National Party, new Prime Minister. By Christmas,
(20:01):
you both sort of got a little snigger on your faces. Yeah.
Then Monday she suddenly changed and said no, he say
to there till the next election. There has been a
little bit of talk. We call it the Wellington Wall.
Stephen Franks, what are you hearing? What are you saying?
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (20:17):
I don't really pay any attention to it. It doesn't
matter until six months out from the election. At that
stage people will be treating it seriously. But at the
moment it's only political tragics who are interested in it.
It's too unpredictable. Why if you think he's unpopular, Christopher LExEN,
I don't really know what makes people. I hear really
(20:40):
strong views, particularly from women against him. I don't know.
I don't have a strong view one way or other.
I think that have you met him, Yeah, yeah, I've
met him quite a few times. And Nikola Willis and
I think they've got a terrible job. They've got to
keep appealing to the people in the middle, the ones
(21:00):
who shift their votes, because they're the only people who
matter in an election. The ones that shift their votes,
and a disproportionate chunk of them are women. A number
of them don't know very much about affairs or politics.
They vote on sentiment feelings, and in the whole Western
world at the moment, we've got very unpredictable politics because
(21:22):
there's a gap opened up between men's voting practices and
preferences and women's. It's more than twenty percent on lots
of issues, which is the whole margin of change. So
he's I think they're doing a good job in a
lot of areas. A lot of changes are absolutely necessary.
But if we now have democracy run by the sentiment
(21:46):
of people who don't know very much and have been
looked after all their lives or worked for salaries, it's
not going to be a very stable democracy.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Wow, that's pretty pretty down heavy, there, isn't it. Why
goup of your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, I don't think there's any any truth to the rumors,
And I mean as you said, I mean that the
crunches will come in a year's time at election time.
But the fact of the matter is, I think it
suits the opposition. It suits some of the left wing
journalism we have to face in this country to fuel
that on guy argument. If you think about it, you know,
there's been some big announcements and quite important things happened
(22:21):
during the week but the first thing that the journalists
have been saying to us, are you under threat? Of course,
and then see the opposition and they continue to on.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I mean, when you would have met him several times,
you know, like Stephen, he is approachable, nice guy, looks
you in the eye. I can't, I quite can't quite
understand why he's not more popular.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Well, when you're making some tough calls, and they've had
to make some tough calls over the last two years.
When you're making those tough calls, then there are people
that don't agree with it. So that's just the nature
of politics. But certainly from the point of view, Look,
they'll be waiting and hoping that as we talked about
earlier on, they'll be looking at when people get a
bit more money in their pockets, if the interest rates
(23:06):
coming down, feeling a bit better with the fine weather,
and suddenly there will be a lot more positive things
to focus about, and not whether there's a cube of
between Minister Bishop and the Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
If you put your house on it, both of you,
I'm looking at both of you had to put your
house on it. Will he be standing at the next
election as the potential prime minister will be leader of
National next election.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
I won't answer that.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I that's what I want.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
I mean, I think he will be, but it wouldn't
surprise me if he wasn't.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Okay, yeah, okay, he will be, but it will as
long as the back benches of the National Party of
the camp Prison covernment don't get warbly quick and they
start believing the priest.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Absolutely, I've got to go to an ad break yes
or no. Does it surprise you, Stephen Franks that the
next cambell of the ranker is did.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
You know I think he's the obvious candidate?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Agree?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Oh wow, that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Isn't a good panel?
Speaker 3 (24:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
No, that's interesting. Welcome back. It's Wayne Guppy and Stephen
Franks Wellington City Council. I mean to be fair and
give them credit. The new CEO went out and got
a Deloitte's report commissioned by the council and the report
came back and said they were overstaffed by up to
three hundred and thirty jobs. Wayne Guppy, I mean, what's
(24:29):
going to happen here? Is anything going to change or
nothing going to change? And what do you make of
the report?
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Well, I think Matt Prossell has made the first call.
I mean, he's got an independent review of it, and
I'm sure he will put his stamp on as a
new CE and I'm sure you'll see many changes. Have
you met him yep, number of times? What do you
think we do a good job for Wellington? Will absolutely?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Okay, I'm meeting him next week.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
He will make he will make the tough calls. You
only got to look at his history because when he
and Brittany he restructured and made some big calls on
staffing numbers.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And will he be given the read him to do
that under Andrew Little's leadership.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Well, you'll need well One would think that the council
and the mayor will give them support simply the fact
they all stood on an election to say they wanted
to cut costs and save money. And look, this mon't
be the first counsel that goes through that. With a
lot of the structural changes that are about to happen across
the country, will be many local forgies having to go
through the same thing.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Stephen Franks, what do you think will happen?
Speaker 4 (25:32):
You get these reports to cover you because it's really
hard for organizations to reform themselves. He does. He doesn't
have a guy who's noted for reformability. And the changes
to health which Andrew Little brought in in the middle
of the COVID crisis were disastrous, billions wasted and no
improvement in outcomes. So I think that process has got
(25:54):
his work cut out because he's got a minister who's Oh,
he's got a leader who's going to be always nervous
about looking too unkind or unnice.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Plus he's a union so he's not going to try
rid of people that's well most anti union.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
Well, some of the some some reforms have been driven
are best driven by someone like that. But I don't.
I hope you can do it. But for example, the
Keith to me is will they sack the team that
put that was a resulted in the Council of Law
feeling they had to put a fence around the harbor.
I'll be looking at it and say, where are the
stupid people? Let's get rid of them, And that's that's
(26:29):
really important. It didn't almost doesn't matter where they are.
They'll have a real employment law problem. But that should
be the target. Get rid of the people who have
shown that they're Drong goes.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well, wouldn't you even be happy if you said, you know,
anyone that leaves jobs won't be replaced.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Yeah, but sinking lids just mean that someone who's unlikely
to be able to find a job elsewhere. Yeah, the
worst You keep the worst people.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, that's not a good thing. No, so do you
think anything will happen.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
I'm glad to hear that you are impressed by by Pross.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Have you met him?
Speaker 4 (27:03):
No?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
No, I haven't met him, though I've tried several times,
but I haven't. Haven't been able to. Yeah, but I
mean everyone says the right things, but says the right
things about him. Who will make those decisions? Wait, who
will decide?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I mean we see to see the stuff arem poured
by the CE.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
So he'll make the decision. If he wants to cut
too hundred, he doesn't have to go through. Andrew Little
just says, I'm cutting it down and getting it in shape.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Well, that's that's an uncertainty about local government. Theoretically, the
counselors and the mayor should be in charge. In practice,
it's become really the bureaucrats are in charge because they
can always make the counselors look like idiots, and.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
We saw that in previous cycles with the previous mirror
in the previous CEO and Wonnington didn't we want I
don't want to put you on the on the police targets.
Let's talk about police targets. Five hundred new cops was
officially missed yesterday, Stephen Franks. Were they ever going to
make that target? And have we got an issue with
trying to get people that want to be police people.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
I'm glad that they must have it for the simple
reason that the easiest thing would have been to drop
the standards, cut the courses and find a way to
hit that target that actually was more damaging to the
police to policing. So in that sense, they've actually increased
the length and they have reinstated some of the requirements.
(28:26):
You know, you saw that that how many of them
couldn't swim some report and they were faking it. So
in that so I'm glad that they've kept the integrity
of it and have missed the target instead of just
just fudging it. But I'd say the thing I look
at at the moment is the huge drop in serious
offending that you could say you don't need as many policemen.
(28:50):
Since the government has ended catch and release, or tried
to end catch and release, they've still got a lot
of work to do. They've got a whole lot of
judges who still believe in catch and release, and they've
got a really big job getting on top of the
courts that have decided they want to make the law
instead of Parliament. But that in that area things are
looking up. That dropping, that drop in crime as a
(29:11):
whole lot of people not hurt one.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
You concerned when you saw the numbers of police because
we used to do this story a year or a
year and a half ago, two years ago, and it
was you know, Australians are going to get our police
are coming over and targeting them and picking up seven,
eight and ninees. Now it's hundreds. I mean, does that
concern you.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Oh well, I mean when you lose good, good people,
of course it does. But I mean that's the fact
of love. It's not it's not something new. But the
intention is that that this government has said they want
to increase the police, they will continue to do that.
But absolutely what Stephen said that no dropping standards, that
it'd be the worst thing for the for the police
in this country and they've got enough problems at the
moment to deal with. So certainly from the point of
(29:51):
view of that with the continue with that standard, and
the Minister's made it very clear that he will not
be dropping the standards.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And you come from a family a policemen, I do do,
absolutely very proud police family. So you'd been happy that
making the training a little bit longer because it your
family's time to training was longer. I think you had
to if you have a certain age. You did it
for three.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Years for the cadets, those early ones, it was cadets.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, so that's that's a good thing. When we come back,
we'll take a short break, we'll come back hots and notts.
Now we give them no direction whatsoever, I guess, no
direction whatsoever. They can actually come in on the show
and just tell us what they think is going really
well and what they think is not going well and
needs to be correct.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
The Friday Hot.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Okay, this is the opportunity to have you say about
what's going on in the world, Wayne Guppy, what's your
hots and what you're not well?
Speaker 3 (30:42):
My hearts is the Minister of Education, Minister Stanford. I
think that that trial they've done for twelve week trial
for mathematics and increased the performance of students, you know,
in a year outstanding and it shows what can be done.
And so now it's going to be put out to
what fifteen thousand students across So that's that's hot news
and it's good for this country. Mine not so hot
(31:04):
news as our all black coach Scott Robinson. You don't
like him, Well, he's busy telling everyone how great they are,
how progress we are. He's got the worst record in
two years, absolutely worst record in two years. He's got
to be under big scrutiny. Forty five players. If you
said I we have we improved over the last two years,
the answers no, we've gone backwards. And New Zealand rugby's
got a problem. If he's leading us when we go
(31:25):
to the World Cup in Australia in two years time,
we won't make the quarterfall.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Who you are replacement?
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Well, there's a number of coaches around, but certainly New
Zealand Rugby needs to wake up and think that under
this administration, two coaches a best mates have left. That
tells you something's not right.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Stephen Franks you've only got a minute because Blayde's so
passionate about.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Our I'm not quite sure of the timing, but I've
been just delighted that the government has finally banned puberty
blockers or at least limited their use, because it was
just shameful. We were using more per head than anyone
else in the world and we are two years behind
what the Britain did. So really pleased that they moved.
(32:05):
Disappointed to see the establishment coming out and complaining about it.
But that's what has really irritated me was seeing material
from my grandkid's school, the board chair saying that they're
going to continue to prioritize the Treaty over the government's priorities,
(32:26):
which is literacy and maths and stuff. Schools should be
free of politics. That is just purely abusive power for
political purposes and it really irritated me.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Thank you both very much. Got to go, Stephen Franks,
Wayne Guppy. Lovely to see you both. If I don't
see you before Christmas, have a really good one. Appreciate
you taking the time out to come on the show
and having your opinions. Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday Fatime with Goodovic Property Management, a better rental experience
for all. Visit Kunovic dot code on its head on Thursday.
Dozen starts.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Seven minutes past eleven Friday Place on the most exciting
hour of radio on Wellington Mornings. Today we've been joined.
We've been bringing a couple of very important people to
chat about the events of the previous week. We've got
this morning, Wayne Guppy, former Upper Hut mayor and general
good guy, Morning.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Morning, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
How are you? How's retirement? You look mighty fine.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Company of time on me at the gym.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
You're looking good. Thank you looking good for a fifty
two year old. And Stephen Frank's lawyer and former MP,
you're looking great too. You're on the phone. I'm shooting
all the time.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
At the moment, we were just discussing that I only
need to fill the fridge. Now there's no joy in
it after testosa.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
And don't tell me it's got already. Let's start the
show with the o cr KD again. Stephen Franks, what
are your thoughts. Where are you? What's going on? You
in your lawyer's office. So you're getting developers starting to ring,
You've got people all started getting fired up. Money's cheaper
away again now all lot.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Well here's that, that's what happens. But I've never been
a property lawyer.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Okay, but you've got your work in a lawyer's office.
So but someone must actually do properly.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
You know, we don't do any property work. I've always
In fact, my friends just retired and my wife said, well,
what are we going to do for a lawyer? I
wouldn't dare touch a property transition?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Why do you look like a property lawyer?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
All right, but what happens now? Does anything change?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Well? I think Cameron Baggriy had a good comment the
other day just saying it's very rare that you get
real interest rates lower than two and a half. I
think you said two and a half or three percent,
and that's about what they are now. So he said
he was going to fix his mortgage at current rates
because he thinks they'll only go up. But he knows he.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Said four years, didn't he actually said I'll fix. I'm
going to fix for four year I spoke to all
my family straight after I heard the same thing. I said, hey, fix, fix, fix,
But you don't want to give that advice to anyone,
do you.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Well, I just pass on his advice. But I do
think that there's an awful lot of inflation looking as
if it's coming and our exchange rates gone low. That's
going to come back into the imported goods there is,
There are lots of green shoots in the economy, and
consumers aren't feeling it yet. But even our line of business,
(02:58):
we know people are getting they're getting buoyant, they're getting optimistic,
they want to do things, they want to start businesses.
So you know, I think the inflation and you ual,
when there's a bit of inflation on the reserve Bank
has to increase rates. So it looks as if it'll
be a low point.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Right. Wait, Gebby, what are you thinking? What are you feeling?
I mean, you've you know, got a bit of time
on your hands. You're a bright guy. You had been
sitting looking at this thinking, you know when you walk
down the streets of people feeling a bit more buoyant.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yes, yeah, and I think you know, I mean, I
agree with Stephen that would inflate. I think there will
be some inflation you only look at because Australia are
struggling with it now issues, but certainly from the point
of view that people are starting to think that they're
going to have some more money in their pocket. And
that's a psychological thing, and I think that'll overcome some
of the gloom that we get from the from the
(03:46):
if you like, from the news and the reporters every
single day. I mean, you know that has an effect
regardless of regardless of what the indust rates were or are. Psychologically,
if you every day get the thing that things are
doom and gloom and the city's no good.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
And we were discussing I can't listen to Morning Report.
I haven't listened to it for years because I need
to be positive. I want to get stuff done during
the day. I listen to that constant gloom and depression
telling me all about all the losers who were complaining.
Is it's really wearing and there's been a there's been
(04:21):
two years of grieving by a lot of media people
for the loss of the government they wanted, yes, and
it wears on a country.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Do you think it is that or do you think
that because I often get accused of that myself. They
say I'm too negative. But if you're just telling the
story how it is, I mean that should be what
you know, discussing the things of how they are. Shouldn't
they be? That's how they are.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
The problem is, I believe with the media is that
they actually they go to the giving you the bottom
line all the time. They're giving you the worst scenario
all the time. And it's constant. As Stephen said, and look,
I think again, if we go back to that with
that indust rates people starting to feel and the other
thing again, you know, psychologically my experience when I was
in business, you get some good, fine weather, you get
(05:05):
into summer, and against psychologically there are people start to.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Sku Again, what are we going to do about the
all blacks?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Well that's an issue we'll have to talk about because
that is depressing.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But why, I mean, I get it, I totally get it.
And in my line of work, you know, summer is
better times. But I mean, why do we feel better
because the sun shining?
Speaker 4 (05:26):
We're human?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I look, I look at the animals on the farm.
You can tell when they are feeling better, and well.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They're feeling better when you did you walk around with
a gun over your shoulder. I'm sure they're feeling pretty much.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Interestingly, when COVID during the lockdown and hunting wasn't allowed
within I'd say within two weeks, they knew that people
went hunting them, that they were coming out and looking
at us. And it was the raw which is in
April and walk up the creek and they were out
balowing and fighting each other in the open, Whereas it
(06:02):
can't have been anything other than social communication because they
don't see a lot of anyway. It's really really interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
That is interesting because you know what happened to be
a couple of weeks ago, and I thought about this
and I a bit to talk about it, but I'll
talk to you guys about it. I was coming to
work at you know, five clock, five thirty in the morning,
and there was a couple of seagulls eating something on
the road. As I drove up. They didn't move, They
did not move. They stayed there as the car came
towards them. Now, I think that they've worked out that hey,
(06:32):
cars aren't going to run us over anymore. I mean,
thirty years ago, your eyes and your eyes, and my
eyes would light up and bomb. They'll be God. But
now it's not not the right thing to do, is it.
I don't think I running over you know what, to
me like they wouldn't. They know now that they can
they can safely eat on the road and no one's
going to run them over because that's society.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Yeah, they know a lot. The cattle, the feral cattle
on our place know the difference between us, the various people.
They've never challenged. They've never threatened Kathy or me in
thirty years. But the guy who used to try and
muster them, and did in fact muster a lot, he
couldn't go into the in some areas without a rifle.
(07:15):
They would actually come and try and knock them off
his quad bike.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, let's take a short break and come back with
regional cous cost. We went all over the world, bere
didn't we in five minutes. That's the interesting part of
Friday face off. Former RPA hutmeyor Wayne Guppy and Stephen Franks,
Wellington lawyer, will take a short break and come back.
And I want to ask them about the idea of
getting rid of regional counsels. I'm sure Wayne Guppy's got
(07:41):
lots to say on that. It's Friday face off. Gosh
what we talk about in the ad break, So I
mean we couldn't put them on here, could we, Stephen
Franks and Wayne Guppy. Regional Councils. Nationals has proposed abolishing
regional council replacing them with a panel of regional mayors. Gubbs,
I've got to start with you on this one. Come on,
you've got no ex to gride anything to gride. Now
(08:02):
you're a free man, you can speak it.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
No.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Well, I agree with the proposal, there's no question about that.
There's that that that and look, with the changes in
functions of what the central government has been doing, then
you've got to look and say what's the best way
of delivering local government in the future. And I think
what they're proposing will only work if they actually have
(08:25):
to look at the whole structure of local government. Just
taking out the regional councils will mean I think there
has to be talks about future strategy of amalgamations.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, that's obviously their first stay. I mean, we're going
to fire up Stephen in a minute, because we've already
had this conversation six months ago with it.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
But carry on it will, I mean, there's no question
about it. And you've got to remember there's been a
lot of there's been a lot more issues about regionalizing
things and centralization of something. So a lot of the
function you take the water out of out of what
local government does. So there's a lot of a lot
of the functions that local government do today are not
going to be done by local government.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Did it surprise you because it came out of the
blue though.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Well no, because if you think about it, you think
about Minister Jones and company, he'd be saying that for
a while and so the writing was on the wall.
And look, the issue with regional councils is they have
they've sat under the radar, they've and they can make
life tough for people. And there's a lot of examples
that are around the country where where regional councils have
(09:25):
made things tough. So you know, changes absolutely right what
they're doing. But I think there will be bigger change
than just taking out that layer of regional council.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Well Wellington Regional Council was one of the example cases
of it. I think they got hit with six hundred
thousand dollars because they'd abused their power, their planning power
or their resource management powers. But there was one woe array.
I don't know whether it was regional or district, but
it was a council got hit with a seven million
dollar a quarter award against them because again they had
(09:54):
lied that abused their powers. The regional councils have been
nests of people who gravitate there because they just love
telling people, ordering people around. I don't think this will work.
I think I think it's utterly irrelevant whether they have
elected councilors or a council of mayors until they take
a whole of functions off them and say get rid
(10:14):
of the people, so they can't do this stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So I'm trying to work out what you mean by that.
If they are they talking about getting rid of the
whole thing.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Well, no, the announcement is that they are going to
put the existing councils under the management of a committee
of mayors, right, and so that eliminates the elections there.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
But they're still still the actual region or the stays
there run by someone out. Yeah, I mean, I.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Won't draw a firm judgment on until we see what
the RMA reforms do. But they actually have to take
away a lot of power to interfere and they have
to make it show that those people's jobs are gone,
because otherwise they'll just look for new ways of asserting themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, does that concern you, Oh?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Absolutely absolutely, it's I mean, it's it's a fine print,
you know, that fine detail that that's because because it could.
I mean, as Stephen said, it's highly likely that it
won't work as well as they want it, so they
need to that needs to be But it's progress, it's
the start of what needs to happen.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
It's showing willingness to do something significant, not just tinker.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yes, now, Andrew Little said that this so harmed partnership
between the councils and crowns in terms of regulation, a
regulating environment and molded Stephen Briggs, I mean you would
have heard that, you would have seen that. I mean,
what is he right or is he just well.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
He's he's making stuff up. For thirty years the treaty,
the Waitangi Tribunal and the government said quite clearly that
local government were not partners in the treaty to the
extent there is a partnership and it was between the
Crown and Ewie. He Andrew's just picking up the last
(11:51):
ten years of it's fashionable now to say that the
partnership has to be inflicted everywhere and no one quite
knows what it is. But when you have undefined terms
like tea kunga and the principles, people can make it
up as I go along, and career politicians like that,
and so do career judges and anyone else who can
(12:13):
make stuff up to eat wheel power. So I can
understand why he's saying it, but he's dead wrong. There
was there is no obligation for Mari or right from
the treaty to have special political privileges.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, I agree with Stephen. The fact the matter is
that those relationships are with the Crown and certainly from
the point of view of any relationship with local government.
I don't agree with what Andrew's saying at all.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I felt, I mean, I fully support, you know, has
what he's been doing, and he's been doing a good job.
But I felt that was a strange thing to come
out and push.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Well in his circles. He's got to stay on side
with the people that labor have given him, and they
love all this declarative stuff, this performative stuff about partnership.
It's part of their religion. They don't. I'm not a Christian,
but I think one of the reasons why our politics
is so distorted and so partisan is could people need
(13:16):
things that they feel transcendent. They need to make sacrifices,
they need to do penance, and so they do. They
take up beliefs that are hugely expensive and risky and
pretend the thing that they have no choice but to
do them. And one of the things that they like
saying is that they've got no choice but to hand
over power to unelected Mari right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Good points. Tom Phillips, we had to bring this up again.
The government has launched a three million dollar inquiry into
the Tom Phillips case. Wayne Guppy, what are your thoughts.
Do you agree that there should be an inquiry?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Well, I mean yes to a point that there needs
to be. I mean simply that there are a lot
of there's a lot of unanswered questions. You a lot
of things did, particularly with many of the government departments
and agencies. You know, this went on for four years
and nearly four years, and certainly from the point of view,
certainly from the children's point of view, that was with
(14:11):
the right process or with the right the right agencies
act correctly through that process.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, Steven, I'm really interested in your take on this
because you are a hunter, have been a hunter all
your life. Right, would you have found them?
Speaker 4 (14:24):
No? Not if all those people are looking, I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Do you reckon they were really looking?
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, I'm sure they were looking. Yeah, it's it's really
easy to create conspiracy theories. But thick bush, I know
sometimes that are there's I will see on our on
the fringes of the national part of the regional the
forest park, I'll see forty deer. But most of the
time you can go the entire day and you won't
(14:51):
see one. So if someone wants to hide, I mean
it's a bit different now with imaging technology and the
high tech drones. Yeah, but a lot of that stuff
doesn't work in big trees. It's looking for image that
are obscured. Even if it's.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
So, can I just ask you, because this is really
interesting to me, if we put the Special Forces Army
in there to find them when they have found.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Them, I don't know. I mean, I think it's more
likely that there were people in the community helping them,
that's a more likely situation. And when you've got that,
and there's books thesis written on terrorism, if you've got
two percent of your population willing to commit violence and
(15:38):
ten percent supporting them, you can take over a country.
So the critical thing is the proportion in the community
who might have been helping. Right inquiry, good thing. I
think it's a bit of a waste of money. I mean,
Tamariki is always in the gun and that always been
asked to do impossible things. The state can't be the
(15:58):
father and mother if you've got crap parents in the end,
unless you're going to simply take the kids away early on,
you will continue to have these sort of things that
they always say never again, but like it's impossible.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
It always happens again only a couple of weeks ago.
In sense, I mean we saw it. So you can't
do when you've got anything you want to add.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Certainly from the point of view of of of you know,
the state can't be there if you like the Guardian
the whole time, I mean, we've got to be but
we don't. We don't make the tough course and I.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Always feel that we don't do enough as a society.
I mean you, you've Stephen, you cracked it. Really was
saying that you know a lot of people were helping it,
So society was helping it. Someone would have known something someone.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
I don't think that's one of the faults they often
talk about we should be doing something different. I don't
have any power to do it. I'm not allowed to
interfere it. It's different in communities and probably even our
own two generations go where any parent in fact, local
council and TI happy. He took his belt off and
(17:07):
gave me a good hiding when he caught me and
his son trying to break street lights, and we were
we deserved it, and my parents would have said good
on you. But we've eliminated that.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
What, I don't feel any responsibility or guilt about these
failures because I don't have power to do anything about them.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Well, you must have a bit more power than the
strap though surely.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Families do, yeah, and extended families do. But that's but
I said, they do not get involved.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And then a lot of people would have known that
someone was helping them, a lot of there would be
a lot of stuff in the community no one did
anything about, Well, I.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Don't We don't know if no one did anything about.
We just don't know whether whether that. Probably the cops
had a pretty good suspicion, but suspicions not enough. They
didn't need something more, and.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
They obviously acted quite cautiously, wondering what the consequences would be.
But certainly stem did the only was the only two
street lights? Y happy at the time, and I wonder they.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
No one you got the belt got the belt? Did
it affect you? I was it affected you? Because I
got I got caned at school and I reckon it
mentally affected me. I really do. I don't want to
say so did it affect you?
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Oh? I was in the air when we were strapped
and cameed a lot. I was caned in the sixth form.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well you shouldn't be a damn Larry if you're a
naughty boy, really should you come on? Twenty nine minutes
past eleven, we've got strapped and caned a lot. Stephen
Franks and Wayne Guppy. I bet you never came at school,
wy Guppy?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yes, I was.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Was he weird?
Speaker 4 (18:43):
It didn't It wasn't a big deal.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It was a big deal.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
For most For most people, their parents were doing it anyway.
It was more structure than at home. And it's one
of the things about when when they abolished corporate punishment
in schools, Wolding, who was the minister, the Labor minister
at the time, said our schools are going to become hellholes.
They are the the kids are going to be going
(19:09):
to institutions where the teachers no longer have as much
power as their own parents.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Well, I can honestly say neither of my parents ever
laid a hand on me. Ever, not once.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
We were probably a good boy.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Time for ads, Time for a news break are past eleven,
Stephen Freaks and Way Guffy. I definitely want a good boy,
But my parents didn't believe and whackon me.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
But but but I did when I needed it.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, where do we get to? Where do we get to?
On Friday Face Off, Stephen Franks and Wayne Guppy on
the show Friday Face Off, Let's talk about rumors about
rumors about rumors. Hither du proce out on the last
Friday Today week ago, came out real strong, real strong,
new leader of the National Party, new Prime Minister. By Christmas,
(20:01):
you both sort of got a little snigger on your faces. Yeah.
Then Monday she suddenly changed and said no, he say
to there till the next election. There has been a
little bit of talk. We call it the Wellington Wall.
Stephen Franks, what are you hearing? What are you saying?
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (20:17):
I don't really pay any attention to it. It doesn't
matter until six months out from the election. At that
stage people will be treating it seriously. But at the
moment it's only political tragics who are interested in it.
It's too unpredictable. Why if you think he's unpopular, Christopher LExEN,
I don't really know what makes people. I hear really
(20:40):
strong views, particularly from women against him. I don't know.
I don't have a strong view one way or other.
I think that have you met him, Yeah, yeah, I've
met him quite a few times. And Nikola Willis and
I think they've got a terrible job. They've got to
keep appealing to the people in the middle, the ones
(21:00):
who shift their votes, because they're the only people who
matter in an election. The ones that shift their votes,
and a disproportionate chunk of them are women. A number
of them don't know very much about affairs or politics.
They vote on sentiment feelings, and in the whole Western
world at the moment, we've got very unpredictable politics because
(21:22):
there's a gap opened up between men's voting practices and
preferences and women's. It's more than twenty percent on lots
of issues, which is the whole margin of change. So
he's I think they're doing a good job in a
lot of areas. A lot of changes are absolutely necessary.
But if we now have democracy run by the sentiment
(21:46):
of people who don't know very much and have been
looked after all their lives or worked for salaries, it's
not going to be a very stable democracy.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Wow, that's pretty pretty down heavy, there, isn't it. Why
goup of your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, I don't think there's any any truth to the rumors,
And I mean as you said, I mean that the
crunches will come in a year's time at election time.
But the fact of the matter is, I think it
suits the opposition. It suits some of the left wing
journalism we have to face in this country to fuel
that on guy argument. If you think about it, you know,
there's been some big announcements and quite important things happened
(22:21):
during the week but the first thing that the journalists
have been saying to us, are you under threat? Of course,
and then see the opposition and they continue to on.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I mean, when you would have met him several times,
you know, like Stephen, he is approachable, nice guy, looks
you in the eye. I can't, I quite can't quite
understand why he's not more popular.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Well, when you're making some tough calls, and they've had
to make some tough calls over the last two years.
When you're making those tough calls, then there are people
that don't agree with it. So that's just the nature
of politics. But certainly from the point of view, Look,
they'll be waiting and hoping that as we talked about
earlier on, they'll be looking at when people get a
bit more money in their pockets, if the interest rates
(23:06):
coming down, feeling a bit better with the fine weather,
and suddenly there will be a lot more positive things
to focus about, and not whether there's a cube of
between Minister Bishop and the Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
If you put your house on it, both of you,
I'm looking at both of you had to put your
house on it. Will he be standing at the next
election as the potential prime minister will be leader of
National next election.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
I won't answer that.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I that's what I want.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
I mean, I think he will be, but it wouldn't
surprise me if he wasn't.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Okay, yeah, okay, he will be, but it will as
long as the back benches of the National Party of
the camp Prison covernment don't get warbly quick and they
start believing the priest.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Absolutely, I've got to go to an ad break yes
or no. Does it surprise you, Stephen Franks that the
next cambell of the ranker is did.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
You know I think he's the obvious candidate?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Agree?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Oh wow, that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Isn't a good panel?
Speaker 3 (24:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
No, that's interesting. Welcome back. It's Wayne Guppy and Stephen
Franks Wellington City Council. I mean to be fair and
give them credit. The new CEO went out and got
a Deloitte's report commissioned by the council and the report
came back and said they were overstaffed by up to
three hundred and thirty jobs. Wayne Guppy, I mean, what's
(24:29):
going to happen here? Is anything going to change or
nothing going to change? And what do you make of
the report?
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Well, I think Matt Prossell has made the first call.
I mean, he's got an independent review of it, and
I'm sure he will put his stamp on as a
new CE and I'm sure you'll see many changes. Have
you met him yep, number of times? What do you
think we do a good job for Wellington? Will absolutely?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Okay, I'm meeting him next week.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
He will make he will make the tough calls. You
only got to look at his history because when he
and Brittany he restructured and made some big calls on
staffing numbers.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And will he be given the read him to do
that under Andrew Little's leadership.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Well, you'll need well One would think that the council
and the mayor will give them support simply the fact
they all stood on an election to say they wanted
to cut costs and save money. And look, this mon't
be the first counsel that goes through that. With a
lot of the structural changes that are about to happen across
the country, will be many local forgies having to go
through the same thing.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Stephen Franks, what do you think will happen?
Speaker 4 (25:32):
You get these reports to cover you because it's really
hard for organizations to reform themselves. He does. He doesn't
have a guy who's noted for reformability. And the changes
to health which Andrew Little brought in in the middle
of the COVID crisis were disastrous, billions wasted and no
improvement in outcomes. So I think that process has got
(25:54):
his work cut out because he's got a minister who's Oh,
he's got a leader who's going to be always nervous
about looking too unkind or unnice.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Plus he's a union so he's not going to try
rid of people that's well most anti union.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
Well, some of the some some reforms have been driven
are best driven by someone like that. But I don't.
I hope you can do it. But for example, the
Keith to me is will they sack the team that
put that was a resulted in the Council of Law
feeling they had to put a fence around the harbor.
I'll be looking at it and say, where are the
stupid people? Let's get rid of them, And that's that's
(26:29):
really important. It didn't almost doesn't matter where they are.
They'll have a real employment law problem. But that should
be the target. Get rid of the people who have
shown that they're Drong goes.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well, wouldn't you even be happy if you said, you know,
anyone that leaves jobs won't be replaced.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Yeah, but sinking lids just mean that someone who's unlikely
to be able to find a job elsewhere. Yeah, the
worst You keep the worst people.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, that's not a good thing. No, so do you
think anything will happen.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
I'm glad to hear that you are impressed by by Pross.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Have you met him?
Speaker 4 (27:03):
No?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
No, I haven't met him, though I've tried several times,
but I haven't. Haven't been able to. Yeah, but I
mean everyone says the right things, but says the right
things about him. Who will make those decisions? Wait, who
will decide?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I mean we see to see the stuff arem poured
by the CE.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
So he'll make the decision. If he wants to cut
too hundred, he doesn't have to go through. Andrew Little
just says, I'm cutting it down and getting it in shape.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Well, that's that's an uncertainty about local government. Theoretically, the
counselors and the mayor should be in charge. In practice,
it's become really the bureaucrats are in charge because they
can always make the counselors look like idiots, and.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
We saw that in previous cycles with the previous mirror
in the previous CEO and Wonnington didn't we want I
don't want to put you on the on the police targets.
Let's talk about police targets. Five hundred new cops was
officially missed yesterday, Stephen Franks. Were they ever going to
make that target? And have we got an issue with
trying to get people that want to be police people.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
I'm glad that they must have it for the simple
reason that the easiest thing would have been to drop
the standards, cut the courses and find a way to
hit that target that actually was more damaging to the
police to policing. So in that sense, they've actually increased
the length and they have reinstated some of the requirements.
(28:26):
You know, you saw that that how many of them
couldn't swim some report and they were faking it. So
in that so I'm glad that they've kept the integrity
of it and have missed the target instead of just
just fudging it. But I'd say the thing I look
at at the moment is the huge drop in serious
offending that you could say you don't need as many policemen.
(28:50):
Since the government has ended catch and release, or tried
to end catch and release, they've still got a lot
of work to do. They've got a whole lot of
judges who still believe in catch and release, and they've
got a really big job getting on top of the
courts that have decided they want to make the law
instead of Parliament. But that in that area things are
looking up. That dropping, that drop in crime as a
(29:11):
whole lot of people not hurt one.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
You concerned when you saw the numbers of police because
we used to do this story a year or a
year and a half ago, two years ago, and it
was you know, Australians are going to get our police
are coming over and targeting them and picking up seven,
eight and ninees. Now it's hundreds. I mean, does that
concern you.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Oh well, I mean when you lose good, good people,
of course it does. But I mean that's the fact
of love. It's not it's not something new. But the
intention is that that this government has said they want
to increase the police, they will continue to do that.
But absolutely what Stephen said that no dropping standards, that
it'd be the worst thing for the for the police
in this country and they've got enough problems at the
moment to deal with. So certainly from the point of
(29:51):
view of that with the continue with that standard, and
the Minister's made it very clear that he will not
be dropping the standards.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And you come from a family a policemen, I do do,
absolutely very proud police family. So you'd been happy that
making the training a little bit longer because it your
family's time to training was longer. I think you had
to if you have a certain age. You did it
for three.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Years for the cadets, those early ones, it was cadets.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, so that's that's a good thing. When we come back,
we'll take a short break, we'll come back hots and notts.
Now we give them no direction whatsoever, I guess, no
direction whatsoever. They can actually come in on the show
and just tell us what they think is going really
well and what they think is not going well and
needs to be correct.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
The Friday Hot.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Okay, this is the opportunity to have you say about
what's going on in the world, Wayne Guppy, what's your
hots and what you're not well?
Speaker 3 (30:42):
My hearts is the Minister of Education, Minister Stanford. I
think that that trial they've done for twelve week trial
for mathematics and increased the performance of students, you know,
in a year outstanding and it shows what can be done.
And so now it's going to be put out to
what fifteen thousand students across So that's that's hot news
and it's good for this country. Mine not so hot
(31:04):
news as our all black coach Scott Robinson. You don't
like him, Well, he's busy telling everyone how great they are,
how progress we are. He's got the worst record in
two years, absolutely worst record in two years. He's got
to be under big scrutiny. Forty five players. If you
said I we have we improved over the last two years,
the answers no, we've gone backwards. And New Zealand rugby's
got a problem. If he's leading us when we go
(31:25):
to the World Cup in Australia in two years time,
we won't make the quarterfall.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Who you are replacement?
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Well, there's a number of coaches around, but certainly New
Zealand Rugby needs to wake up and think that under
this administration, two coaches a best mates have left. That
tells you something's not right.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Stephen Franks you've only got a minute because Blayde's so
passionate about.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Our I'm not quite sure of the timing, but I've
been just delighted that the government has finally banned puberty
blockers or at least limited their use, because it was
just shameful. We were using more per head than anyone
else in the world and we are two years behind
what the Britain did. So really pleased that they moved.
(32:05):
Disappointed to see the establishment coming out and complaining about it.
But that's what has really irritated me was seeing material
from my grandkid's school, the board chair saying that they're
going to continue to prioritize the Treaty over the government's priorities,
(32:26):
which is literacy and maths and stuff. Schools should be
free of politics. That is just purely abusive power for
political purposes and it really irritated me.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Thank you both very much. Got to go, Stephen Franks,
Wayne Guppy. Lovely to see you both. If I don't
see you before Christmas, have a really good one. Appreciate
you taking the time out to come on the show
and having your opinions. Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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