The government has directed Sport NZ to scrap their guidelines around transgender participation in sports - with individual sporting bodies able to make their own decisions on how to include transgender players.
But is this really a serious issue, or a manufactured culture-war type debate?
Also, the price of butter has risen 60% in the last twelve months. Should Kiwis be paying export prices for butter?
To answer those questions, Labour's health and Wellington issues spokeswoman Ayesha Verrall and National's Wairarapa MP Mike Butterick joined Nick Mills for Politics Thursday.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talk saied bo.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Us Politics Thursday this week is Labour's Health and Wellington's Issue.
Spokeswoman Aishavera, Good morning, I Sha, how are you doing?
Can you come a little bit closer to the microphone?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well, thank you, it's nice to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The microphone can move and you can get it. Nice
to have you here. In Nationals wire wrapper MP Mike Butterrick,
Good morning.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Mike, Morning morning Nisha. Right.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Let's start with the announcement from Sport New Zealand this morning.
The government has asked them to scrap their guidelines around
trans to transgender participation in sport. The guidelines said people
can play with the gender they identify with, but now
now the government wants individual sports to decide their own
(01:07):
policies on who's included and possibly hurt them in the
funding pocket of Wrinston Peters threats to be taken seriously, Mike,
is this a genuine issue or just political culture war
that really doesn't matter?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Well, look, I mean a little bit of a background.
I guess Nick, you know, a review was sought last
year from Sport Incident. It was a pretty thorough review,
you know, in the guide. But the guidelines they were
never mandatory and it was up to the individual organizations
as whether they used them or not. You know, so
the government yet, we've got a role in making sport
(01:42):
accessible to all New Zealanders by creating opportunities, but not
in providing principles as to who shall be included in law.
And you know, I know last year Chrisippins, you know,
he said that the government should keep out of it.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well they should because at the end of the day,
the sports were making their own decisions anyway, I should
Does this make sense letting individual sports bodies decite I mean,
it's all abit weird.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Well, let's just go back to the definition here. Guidelines
are guidelines. That was what our government brought in because
we recognize that our sporting codes we're struggling with these
decisions and we wanted to provide some indication of how
good decisions could be made that met everyone's needs in
(02:27):
terms of inclusion for people who want to play sport,
as well as working through some of the tougher issues there.
So the decisions were always with the Sporting Code under
Labor and now under National I'll tell you what's different though,
Winston Peters gets to make as much mischief as he
wants to under this government. And that's because Christopher Luxon
(02:48):
is weak. So Winston Peters can go on and contradict
Mark Mitchell in the media today and there's no consequences
for Winston Peters. So I think there is an element
of culture wars here to be honest.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, I mean, Mike, tell me, aren't there bigger issues
to deal with than this? And why does it come
out with? What do they come out with it now? Really?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah? Well, I mean there's always stuff coming out obviously,
But you know, i'd just go back to you know, politicians.
You know, we shouldn't be determining the rules for the
sporting codes. You know, they should determine that themselves. And
you know, yep, we want inclusive, inclusivity and fairness, but
you know, the sporting bodies they can they can do
that themselves. And because there isn't a one size fits all.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
But isn't that exactly what Winston's doing deciding the rules?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
No, Well, we've just said Look, it's the sport ends en.
You know, it's up to individual sporting bodies to work
out what they want to do it. It's not really
government's role, you know, and Chris up can See was
very clear on that last year as well.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Sure, what do you think of the idea that Winston's
you know, threatening threatening to pull funding government funding if
trans women are allowed to compete against biological women.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
That is disgusting. He's using it as a platform to
get attention to himself. He's out of touch and lou
using Well, actually he's losing his touch because I don't
think Kiwi's who come together on the sporting field every
weekend and every week in New Zealand, really feel the
need to make sport the reason for excluding other people
(04:20):
and making them feel like they're not wanted and left out. Now,
as I've agreed with Mike, the fact is guidelines still
leave a lot of responsibility in the hands on the sport.
All that's different here between Labor and National is that
Winston Peters gets to run around doing whatever he wants
under Chrystopher Luxen.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And threatening to pull funding if it doesn't go his way.
It's a disgrace Mike, have you got an answer for that,
because that's the truth.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Well, I think government we should just keep out of it.
And you know it's up to individual sporting codes as
to what they all sporting bodies as to what rules
they come up with.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Mike, you just said, shouldn't the government keep out of it?
What the hell's Winston Peter's doing if he's not? I mean,
you're contradicting your own.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Coalist Look, I think that's a question invest addressed to
Winston Peters.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Well, you're the one saying that he the government should
keep out of it and he's not keeping out of it.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Well, I would, I would address that to Winston.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, you will? You will you personally address it with them.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
It's not my role or responsibility. I'm sure Mark Mitchill
will possibly be having a conversation with Winston, but it's
certainly not my place to make a comment on what.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Winston Willy though, Well, will he be calling Winston in
his office and saying, Winston, you've got to You've got
to sort it out. Mark Mitchell can be really tough
on a whole lot of people. Is he prepared to
be tough on Winston Peters?
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Well? That's something I can't speak you late on.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
In government with this clown.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, well again, you know, I'll just reiterate that's that's
that's above my pay grade. And you know, whatever conversation
may be head, that's not for me to say. What.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well, I'm just sure there's a lot of listeners, including me,
that's confused by your comments that the government should stay
out of it. And we've got Winston Peters, he's part
of your listen and was Deputy Prime Minister making exactly
that let's move on, let's talk butter. Butter upsets me.
The price of butter is up sixty percent in the
last twelve months and Kiwis are in many cases paying
(06:20):
more than Australians for our own products. Eiesha. Do you
reckon anything anything? It all came out of Nikola Willis's
meeting with Fonterra CEO Miles Hrrell because she's another one
that talks tough a lot that we don't see a
lot out of.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Well, the outcome that might come out of it is
Nichola Willis might get nominated for an oscar because it
was an amazing acting performance of fake outrage and totally
performative and ultimately having absolutely no impact on what for
New Zealand is is a real challenge price of everyday
things that they have to have, just the basics going
(06:55):
up in this economy, and the problem for national is this.
They promised they would make it better. Nikola Willis was
on her social media going on about the price of
butter for the election. They promised it would make it
better in New Zealanders are still struggling. That's the problem.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Mike, You're a farmer. Why answer me this because I can't.
I mean, I know we've got to pay international price,
so I get all that. Don't bore me with that,
but why we produce butter cheaper four kiwis than what
we send it out over the seas for?
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Yeah, look, and there's no doubt butter has gone up.
But there are a number of factors that do contribute
to that, and they are literally out of our control.
You know, there's international demand, there's cow herd numbers, there's
blue tongue in parts of Europe, which is a disease,
which is impact of milk supply. There are a number
of factors. But I would make the comment that you know,
inflation is that there is one thing out of the
(07:50):
basket of goods. This measure for the cpis but it
is CPI is at two point seven. It was at
seven point three. You know, food prices were if you
take all that food basket, they were up over twelve percent.
Under labor they're down at about four and a half percent.
So yep, we can we can, you know, we can
go and pick individual items.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Well it's not just any items. I mean, well, you
all use butter in everyday life, and that's up sixty percent,
and you're forgetting to tell.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Us that, yeah it is. And but you know, petrols
down eight percent. Actually one of the biggest contributions to that,
or the component of that two point seven percent was
actually council rates. They're up about twelve percent, and they
actually about thirteen percent of that of the two point
seven percent.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Look, at the end of the day, what matters to
New Zealanders is can they get the day to day
items that they need to be able to enjoy a
reasonable standard of living. And part of the equation that
National always forgets is that what makes a big difference
is their wage increases. And wage increases were able to
keep up with the cost of living previously, but under
(08:58):
this government we're seeing job cuts, more people are unemployed,
wages aren't going down, minimum wage increases below inflation. All
of that adds up to mean that actually the cost
of living crisis is bad, if not worse.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And Mike, I wouldn't mind a wage increase of sixty
percent of like the heart prices.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah, but look it is it is one one part
of that basket, Mack. And you know, I mean what
would labor do. Would you just say to say to
the barn.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Give you another one if you I can give you
another one of you one if you bought tomatoes lately.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
No, but as are they at a season at the moment.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You have thirty seven dollars or some of your kilo.
I saw them for it's just nuts.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Well then, of course, part of the contributing factors to tomatoes.
I was actually talking to one of the fellow MP's
got a tomato grower down in the South Island, is
the cost of the energy. You know, the cost of
the coal that they're currently using has just gone through
the roof. So there are always a number of factors
that contribute. But again, I mean, what would labor do
would they say to the dairy, told.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
You what labor would do. I just told you what
labor would do.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
We back workhouse to have decent pay increases so they
can afford the basics that they need. And that is
absolutely different between our government. You've just offered teachers one
percent while but has gone up sixty percent.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
But if we're talking about the price of butter specifically,
what would you do so to the farmers, you can't
have ten dollars a kilo, you can only have eight,
We can only have nine.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
People's day to day ability to get by depends on
the cost of goods and the cost of their wages.
And Labor was absolutely clear that we backed workers to
get decent wage increases because that stopped what might seem
like in percentage wise smaller increases in cost is actually
still making it even harder for people. And that's the
(10:45):
problem you've got, Mike.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
But again, what would you do with the price of butter?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I show I'd say five percent of your butter is
used in New Zealand. I'd say, farmers, you're making enough,
give us five percent a bit cheaper. That's what I'd say.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Yeah, And I guess I think actually we export about
ninety eight percent of what comes out of the dairy sector.
But again, when it goes the opposite way and the
farmers the market, you know, Markey, then you say I
will pay you more like, it becomes a very slippery slope.
But again I would come back to the average inflation
is two point seven. It was seven point three, and
(11:20):
on farm for it as an example, when inflation was
a seven point three, on farm inflation that particularly was
sixteen percent.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
It went up this week. By the way, Mike, I've
got to take a break, and my butter's got up
sixty percent and no one wants to talk about it.
Why doesn't someone help me with my butter? Ei Shaver
or Mike Butter at joining us for Thursday Politics. There
was a new poll out this week, and it paints
a very grim picture for the government, Mike. Only thirty
eight percent of the people want to see the government
(11:50):
re elected. Well forty eight percent think it's time for
another party to have it go, Mike, apart from the
price of butter, which I think is the main reason
why is your government so unpopular?
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Look, when we're not particularly focused on the poles, Nick
and I just said this again, there's two poles that
actually matter. We have one in twenty three and there'll
be another one in twenty twenty six, and New Zealanders
will be able to vote, you know, the way the
way they want to at that particular time. But you know,
we are focused on the cost of living and growing
the economy because that's actually the things that matter. You know,
(12:26):
We're and we're pursuing those, those things like free traded deals,
infrastructure investment and actually putting space in the ground, and
those are things that will benefit not only today's generation
but multi subsequent generations as well. So that is our focus.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Promises, promises, I shut is this the result? And this
is where I feel quite strongly about about dissatisfaction with
the government more than it is actually people being impressed
with labor. Labor are doing nothing to get us on
side with them. No tax stuff, no no plans, no direction.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
Our job is to be the parliamentary and public opposition
to the government. And every day I wake up and think,
how am I going to make the case for better
health services in New Zealand today? And I know that
my colleagues who are focused on jobs and how they
housing and health are doing that every day.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
We are certainly helped by a government who is not
fulfilling its promise. It promised New Zealand New Zealand is
that they will get the country back on track, and
the results speak for themselves. People are seeing that the
country isn't on track. However, we've you know, I've got policies.
I've got stacks and stacks of policies and we will
(13:47):
be bringing it out over time. But as is always
the case, that happens more and more closer to the election.
We'll have a bit of things to say this year
and a lot to say in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Mike, your National Party and probably the Coalition as tags
along with it, are basing their chances at the next
election on the economy actually improving. We're not seeing that,
we're not feeling that you're running out of time, buddy.
Well the runways coming to it end.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Well, I'll tell you what if you had a mortgage
and interest rates, you know, inflation at seven point three
percent and interest rates went through the roof. As that
inflation comes down to two point seven is within the band.
You are literally saving hundreds and hundreds of dollars a
week or a fortnight. You know we've got it. We
remember rent went up one hundred and eighty dollars a
week under Labor. That's almost ten thousand dollars a year.
(14:37):
You know, we're supporting families to get back and work.
You know, rates, we're trying to focus. You know, we
talked about the rates and then increase in the rate
and rates within the CPI s. I had a made
of mind ring up yesterday. He wasn't super happy in
one of the way rapor councils. He just got his
local council rates. They've gone up twenty percent, but the
regional council component had gone up fifty nine percent.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
So now can I button because I know that we're
on time restraints and I want to get this question
out there. Seeing the New Zealand First voters when they
were questioned right, listen, listen, up forty percent thought the
government should return. This is New Zealand First voters forty
three percent, so more more of their own party members
thought that New Zealand First would be in a better
(15:21):
position to form a coalition with Labor. What do you
think about that?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Well, look, I mean I obviously can't speak on the
on behalf of New Zealand First voters, but we probably
want to be careful what they wish for because labor,
apart from barking at cars, there's no recognition of the
economic demas that they caused that we're dealing with now.
And what we do know with labor with their policies,
you know, is tax, tax, tax, tax more, borrow more
(15:48):
and sped more. And that's why we're in the situation
we're in, you know, and you go through the raft
of Texas, they're looking at wealth text, capital gains, text
bid text tenants tax, probably a death duties tax, higher
corporate rate text coalition partners, Mike, you're.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Making those up a little bit. We have there's no text. Well,
I haven't seen it and I've been asking for it forever. Ali, Sure,
what do you think about this idea in New Zealand
First and Labor getting together in New Zealand First being
the new Labor and you know, there's a lot of
talk of it.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
There are a group of voters in the center who
will look between National Labor and New Zealand First, and
Labor has to be very competitive in trying to reach
those people focusing on those things like jobs, health and homes.
That will show that we have a plan to make
the basics of life more accessible in New Zealand and
(16:42):
build a future where our children actually want to stay
in the country. So I don't see that feel the
need to. I don't feel it all troubled by some
of the language that people in New Zealand First and
national are using about workers, because Labor's record on workers
speaks for itself. And when people are looking at some
(17:03):
of the decisions made by this government that favor development
developers and landlords over people's own ability to get a home,
when they look at tobacco companies being prioritized about over
everyday in New Zealander's healthcare, I think they'll see that
Labor has a really strong value proposition going into the
next election.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
There was a bit of back and forth during the
Week Mike with Chris Hipkins and Christopher Luxen. Labor criticized
the government's family boost policy. Luxet hit back and said
he won't take lectures from friggin Chris Hipkins when he
has no policy. Is Chris Hippkins getting under your Prime
Minister's skin? A little bit coming out with friggin No.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Well, look I could a comment in regards to what
use them, where's the Prime Minister wants to use? But
you know, look at it is about where is Labour's plan.
You know, like I said, it's all well and good
barking at cars. You know, we've got a six billion
dollar infrastructure and it's actually going to be spades in
the ground to start this year. That is going to
provide jobs for people. We've got Fast Tracked bill is
(18:06):
about getting houses built, you know, like Osh is talking
about houses, support the fast track built. If we want houses,
we know we need to get them built. Support the
fast track, support the RMA changes. That's been the biggest barrier,
the biggest impediment to doing stuff and building stuff in
this country. And when you build stuff, you create jobs
(18:26):
and you create income for people. You know, I just
encourage them to get on board and support us.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I saw he does have like does have a point.
I mean, when are we going to see some ideas
and some policies and some plans some labor Are you
just holding it back to have this little rush during
the election next year.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
No, We're clear that we are going to release policy
this year. Chris Hipkins has already said that he has
me and Barbara and working very hard on those plans
and there will be more to talk about this year.
But as always, most people switch on to the election
in the six six weeks really before before the big day,
(19:08):
and that will be the busier time. But there'll be
something to talk about this year.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Can I just quickly ask you, And it's off topic
and not written down, but I want to ask you
because I've been following the TV one investigative gate of
journalism on Nelson Hospital. Have you been following that? I mean,
it's I it's been. It's pretty horrific, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
And what upsets me about that is that the staff
went to Health New Zealand saying we don't have enough staff.
It takes what twelve sixteen weeks in Health New Zealand
writes reports saying there are workforce issues but we don't
have a but hasn't included a plan or funding to
deal with them. And I think that that's not good enough.
(19:49):
There needs The whole purpose of this review should have
been to set out the track for improving matters, but
they haven't done that. I think it's a Whitewash.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Did you have you been following it, Mike, because basically
all the review did said there's a hell of a
lot of problems, hell of a lot of issues, but
we'll get back to.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
You, no looker, And I haven't been following it really
next at all.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So it's just something that's really been interesting me. After
my little time in the hospital, I thought to myself,
if I was in Nelson, I would be absolutely petrified.
I'd be moving to another city. I'd be out of
there aisha. I wouldn't be sitting there thinking about whether
I could get fixed in a Nelson hospital.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
I think the one of the things I take from
my time as a Minister of Health was that there
has been unequal funding of our hospitals across the country.
And if you look now, the problems in our hospitals
are biggest in Nelson Hospital, Palmerston, North Hawkes Bay, these
you know, in our provincial cities. Those hospitals are really struggling.
(20:49):
And so I look at those hospitals and think, gosh,
we need a solution for them.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Aischaverral Mike Butterwick, thanks for joining us this morning on
Politics Thursday. Have a great weekend. Gosh, yes, thanks Ja.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Thank you for more from Wellington Morning with Nick Mills.
Listen live to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talk saied bo.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Us Politics Thursday this week is Labour's Health and Wellington's Issue.
Spokeswoman Aishavera, Good morning, I Sha, how are you doing?
Can you come a little bit closer to the microphone?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well, thank you, it's nice to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The microphone can move and you can get it. Nice
to have you here. In Nationals wire wrapper MP Mike Butterrick,
Good morning.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Mike, Morning morning Nisha. Right.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Let's start with the announcement from Sport New Zealand this morning.
The government has asked them to scrap their guidelines around
trans to transgender participation in sport. The guidelines said people
can play with the gender they identify with, but now
now the government wants individual sports to decide their own
(01:07):
policies on who's included and possibly hurt them in the
funding pocket of Wrinston Peters threats to be taken seriously, Mike,
is this a genuine issue or just political culture war
that really doesn't matter?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Well, look, I mean a little bit of a background.
I guess Nick, you know, a review was sought last
year from Sport Incident. It was a pretty thorough review,
you know, in the guide. But the guidelines they were
never mandatory and it was up to the individual organizations
as whether they used them or not. You know, so
the government yet, we've got a role in making sport
(01:42):
accessible to all New Zealanders by creating opportunities, but not
in providing principles as to who shall be included in law.
And you know, I know last year Chrisippins, you know,
he said that the government should keep out of it.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well they should because at the end of the day,
the sports were making their own decisions anyway, I should
Does this make sense letting individual sports bodies decite I mean,
it's all abit weird.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Well, let's just go back to the definition here. Guidelines
are guidelines. That was what our government brought in because
we recognize that our sporting codes we're struggling with these
decisions and we wanted to provide some indication of how
good decisions could be made that met everyone's needs in
(02:27):
terms of inclusion for people who want to play sport,
as well as working through some of the tougher issues there.
So the decisions were always with the Sporting Code under
Labor and now under National I'll tell you what's different though,
Winston Peters gets to make as much mischief as he
wants to under this government. And that's because Christopher Luxon
(02:48):
is weak. So Winston Peters can go on and contradict
Mark Mitchell in the media today and there's no consequences
for Winston Peters. So I think there is an element
of culture wars here to be honest.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, I mean, Mike, tell me, aren't there bigger issues
to deal with than this? And why does it come
out with? What do they come out with it now? Really?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah? Well, I mean there's always stuff coming out obviously,
But you know, i'd just go back to you know, politicians.
You know, we shouldn't be determining the rules for the
sporting codes. You know, they should determine that themselves. And
you know, yep, we want inclusive, inclusivity and fairness, but
you know, the sporting bodies they can they can do
that themselves. And because there isn't a one size fits all.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
But isn't that exactly what Winston's doing deciding the rules?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
No, Well, we've just said Look, it's the sport ends en.
You know, it's up to individual sporting bodies to work
out what they want to do it. It's not really
government's role, you know, and Chris up can See was
very clear on that last year as well.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Sure, what do you think of the idea that Winston's
you know, threatening threatening to pull funding government funding if
trans women are allowed to compete against biological women.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
That is disgusting. He's using it as a platform to
get attention to himself. He's out of touch and lou
using Well, actually he's losing his touch because I don't
think Kiwi's who come together on the sporting field every
weekend and every week in New Zealand, really feel the
need to make sport the reason for excluding other people
(04:20):
and making them feel like they're not wanted and left out. Now,
as I've agreed with Mike, the fact is guidelines still
leave a lot of responsibility in the hands on the sport.
All that's different here between Labor and National is that
Winston Peters gets to run around doing whatever he wants
under Chrystopher Luxen.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And threatening to pull funding if it doesn't go his way.
It's a disgrace Mike, have you got an answer for that,
because that's the truth.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Well, I think government we should just keep out of it.
And you know it's up to individual sporting codes as
to what they all sporting bodies as to what rules
they come up with.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Mike, you just said, shouldn't the government keep out of it?
What the hell's Winston Peter's doing if he's not? I mean,
you're contradicting your own.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Coalist Look, I think that's a question invest addressed to
Winston Peters.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Well, you're the one saying that he the government should
keep out of it and he's not keeping out of it.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Well, I would, I would address that to Winston.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, you will? You will you personally address it with them.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
It's not my role or responsibility. I'm sure Mark Mitchill
will possibly be having a conversation with Winston, but it's
certainly not my place to make a comment on what.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Winston Willy though, Well, will he be calling Winston in
his office and saying, Winston, you've got to You've got
to sort it out. Mark Mitchell can be really tough
on a whole lot of people. Is he prepared to
be tough on Winston Peters?
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Well? That's something I can't speak you late on.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
In government with this clown.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, well again, you know, I'll just reiterate that's that's
that's above my pay grade. And you know, whatever conversation
may be head, that's not for me to say. What.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well, I'm just sure there's a lot of listeners, including me,
that's confused by your comments that the government should stay
out of it. And we've got Winston Peters, he's part
of your listen and was Deputy Prime Minister making exactly
that let's move on, let's talk butter. Butter upsets me.
The price of butter is up sixty percent in the
last twelve months and Kiwis are in many cases paying
(06:20):
more than Australians for our own products. Eiesha. Do you
reckon anything anything? It all came out of Nikola Willis's
meeting with Fonterra CEO Miles Hrrell because she's another one
that talks tough a lot that we don't see a
lot out of.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Well, the outcome that might come out of it is
Nichola Willis might get nominated for an oscar because it
was an amazing acting performance of fake outrage and totally
performative and ultimately having absolutely no impact on what for
New Zealand is is a real challenge price of everyday
things that they have to have, just the basics going
(06:55):
up in this economy, and the problem for national is this.
They promised they would make it better. Nikola Willis was
on her social media going on about the price of
butter for the election. They promised it would make it
better in New Zealanders are still struggling. That's the problem.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Mike, You're a farmer. Why answer me this because I can't.
I mean, I know we've got to pay international price,
so I get all that. Don't bore me with that,
but why we produce butter cheaper four kiwis than what
we send it out over the seas for?
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Yeah, look, and there's no doubt butter has gone up.
But there are a number of factors that do contribute
to that, and they are literally out of our control.
You know, there's international demand, there's cow herd numbers, there's
blue tongue in parts of Europe, which is a disease,
which is impact of milk supply. There are a number
of factors. But I would make the comment that you know,
inflation is that there is one thing out of the
(07:50):
basket of goods. This measure for the cpis but it
is CPI is at two point seven. It was at
seven point three. You know, food prices were if you
take all that food basket, they were up over twelve percent.
Under labor they're down at about four and a half percent.
So yep, we can we can, you know, we can
go and pick individual items.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Well it's not just any items. I mean, well, you
all use butter in everyday life, and that's up sixty percent,
and you're forgetting to tell.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Us that, yeah it is. And but you know, petrols
down eight percent. Actually one of the biggest contributions to that,
or the component of that two point seven percent was
actually council rates. They're up about twelve percent, and they
actually about thirteen percent of that of the two point
seven percent.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Look, at the end of the day, what matters to
New Zealanders is can they get the day to day
items that they need to be able to enjoy a
reasonable standard of living. And part of the equation that
National always forgets is that what makes a big difference
is their wage increases. And wage increases were able to
keep up with the cost of living previously, but under
(08:58):
this government we're seeing job cuts, more people are unemployed,
wages aren't going down, minimum wage increases below inflation. All
of that adds up to mean that actually the cost
of living crisis is bad, if not worse.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And Mike, I wouldn't mind a wage increase of sixty
percent of like the heart prices.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah, but look it is it is one one part
of that basket, Mack. And you know, I mean what
would labor do. Would you just say to say to
the barn.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Give you another one if you I can give you
another one of you one if you bought tomatoes lately.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
No, but as are they at a season at the moment.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You have thirty seven dollars or some of your kilo.
I saw them for it's just nuts.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Well then, of course, part of the contributing factors to tomatoes.
I was actually talking to one of the fellow MP's
got a tomato grower down in the South Island, is
the cost of the energy. You know, the cost of
the coal that they're currently using has just gone through
the roof. So there are always a number of factors
that contribute. But again, I mean, what would labor do
would they say to the dairy, told.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
You what labor would do. I just told you what
labor would do.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
We back workhouse to have decent pay increases so they
can afford the basics that they need. And that is
absolutely different between our government. You've just offered teachers one
percent while but has gone up sixty percent.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
But if we're talking about the price of butter specifically,
what would you do so to the farmers, you can't
have ten dollars a kilo, you can only have eight,
We can only have nine.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
People's day to day ability to get by depends on
the cost of goods and the cost of their wages.
And Labor was absolutely clear that we backed workers to
get decent wage increases because that stopped what might seem
like in percentage wise smaller increases in cost is actually
still making it even harder for people. And that's the
(10:45):
problem you've got, Mike.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
But again, what would you do with the price of butter?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I show I'd say five percent of your butter is
used in New Zealand. I'd say, farmers, you're making enough,
give us five percent a bit cheaper. That's what I'd say.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Yeah, And I guess I think actually we export about
ninety eight percent of what comes out of the dairy sector.
But again, when it goes the opposite way and the
farmers the market, you know, Markey, then you say I
will pay you more like, it becomes a very slippery slope.
But again I would come back to the average inflation
is two point seven. It was seven point three, and
(11:20):
on farm for it as an example, when inflation was
a seven point three, on farm inflation that particularly was
sixteen percent.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
It went up this week. By the way, Mike, I've
got to take a break, and my butter's got up
sixty percent and no one wants to talk about it.
Why doesn't someone help me with my butter? Ei Shaver
or Mike Butter at joining us for Thursday Politics. There
was a new poll out this week, and it paints
a very grim picture for the government, Mike. Only thirty
eight percent of the people want to see the government
(11:50):
re elected. Well forty eight percent think it's time for
another party to have it go, Mike, apart from the
price of butter, which I think is the main reason
why is your government so unpopular?
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Look, when we're not particularly focused on the poles, Nick
and I just said this again, there's two poles that
actually matter. We have one in twenty three and there'll
be another one in twenty twenty six, and New Zealanders
will be able to vote, you know, the way the
way they want to at that particular time. But you know,
we are focused on the cost of living and growing
the economy because that's actually the things that matter. You know,
(12:26):
We're and we're pursuing those, those things like free traded deals,
infrastructure investment and actually putting space in the ground, and
those are things that will benefit not only today's generation
but multi subsequent generations as well. So that is our focus.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Promises, promises, I shut is this the result? And this
is where I feel quite strongly about about dissatisfaction with
the government more than it is actually people being impressed
with labor. Labor are doing nothing to get us on
side with them. No tax stuff, no no plans, no direction.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
Our job is to be the parliamentary and public opposition
to the government. And every day I wake up and think,
how am I going to make the case for better
health services in New Zealand today? And I know that
my colleagues who are focused on jobs and how they
housing and health are doing that every day.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
We are certainly helped by a government who is not
fulfilling its promise. It promised New Zealand New Zealand is
that they will get the country back on track, and
the results speak for themselves. People are seeing that the
country isn't on track. However, we've you know, I've got policies.
I've got stacks and stacks of policies and we will
(13:47):
be bringing it out over time. But as is always
the case, that happens more and more closer to the election.
We'll have a bit of things to say this year
and a lot to say in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Mike, your National Party and probably the Coalition as tags
along with it, are basing their chances at the next
election on the economy actually improving. We're not seeing that,
we're not feeling that you're running out of time, buddy.
Well the runways coming to it end.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Well, I'll tell you what if you had a mortgage
and interest rates, you know, inflation at seven point three
percent and interest rates went through the roof. As that
inflation comes down to two point seven is within the band.
You are literally saving hundreds and hundreds of dollars a
week or a fortnight. You know we've got it. We
remember rent went up one hundred and eighty dollars a
week under Labor. That's almost ten thousand dollars a year.
(14:37):
You know, we're supporting families to get back and work.
You know, rates, we're trying to focus. You know, we
talked about the rates and then increase in the rate
and rates within the CPI s. I had a made
of mind ring up yesterday. He wasn't super happy in
one of the way rapor councils. He just got his
local council rates. They've gone up twenty percent, but the
regional council component had gone up fifty nine percent.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
So now can I button because I know that we're
on time restraints and I want to get this question
out there. Seeing the New Zealand First voters when they
were questioned right, listen, listen, up forty percent thought the
government should return. This is New Zealand First voters forty
three percent, so more more of their own party members
thought that New Zealand First would be in a better
(15:21):
position to form a coalition with Labor. What do you
think about that?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Well, look, I mean I obviously can't speak on the
on behalf of New Zealand First voters, but we probably
want to be careful what they wish for because labor,
apart from barking at cars, there's no recognition of the
economic demas that they caused that we're dealing with now.
And what we do know with labor with their policies,
you know, is tax, tax, tax, tax more, borrow more
(15:48):
and sped more. And that's why we're in the situation
we're in, you know, and you go through the raft
of Texas, they're looking at wealth text, capital gains, text
bid text tenants tax, probably a death duties tax, higher
corporate rate text coalition partners, Mike, you're.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Making those up a little bit. We have there's no text. Well,
I haven't seen it and I've been asking for it forever. Ali, Sure,
what do you think about this idea in New Zealand
First and Labor getting together in New Zealand First being
the new Labor and you know, there's a lot of
talk of it.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
There are a group of voters in the center who
will look between National Labor and New Zealand First, and
Labor has to be very competitive in trying to reach
those people focusing on those things like jobs, health and homes.
That will show that we have a plan to make
the basics of life more accessible in New Zealand and
(16:42):
build a future where our children actually want to stay
in the country. So I don't see that feel the
need to. I don't feel it all troubled by some
of the language that people in New Zealand First and
national are using about workers, because Labor's record on workers
speaks for itself. And when people are looking at some
(17:03):
of the decisions made by this government that favor development
developers and landlords over people's own ability to get a home,
when they look at tobacco companies being prioritized about over
everyday in New Zealander's healthcare, I think they'll see that
Labor has a really strong value proposition going into the
next election.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
There was a bit of back and forth during the
Week Mike with Chris Hipkins and Christopher Luxen. Labor criticized
the government's family boost policy. Luxet hit back and said
he won't take lectures from friggin Chris Hipkins when he
has no policy. Is Chris Hippkins getting under your Prime
Minister's skin? A little bit coming out with friggin No.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Well, look I could a comment in regards to what
use them, where's the Prime Minister wants to use? But
you know, look at it is about where is Labour's plan.
You know, like I said, it's all well and good
barking at cars. You know, we've got a six billion
dollar infrastructure and it's actually going to be spades in
the ground to start this year. That is going to
provide jobs for people. We've got Fast Tracked bill is
(18:06):
about getting houses built, you know, like Osh is talking
about houses, support the fast track built. If we want houses,
we know we need to get them built. Support the
fast track, support the RMA changes. That's been the biggest barrier,
the biggest impediment to doing stuff and building stuff in
this country. And when you build stuff, you create jobs
(18:26):
and you create income for people. You know, I just
encourage them to get on board and support us.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I saw he does have like does have a point.
I mean, when are we going to see some ideas
and some policies and some plans some labor Are you
just holding it back to have this little rush during
the election next year.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
No, We're clear that we are going to release policy
this year. Chris Hipkins has already said that he has
me and Barbara and working very hard on those plans
and there will be more to talk about this year.
But as always, most people switch on to the election
in the six six weeks really before before the big day,
(19:08):
and that will be the busier time. But there'll be
something to talk about this year.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Can I just quickly ask you, And it's off topic
and not written down, but I want to ask you
because I've been following the TV one investigative gate of
journalism on Nelson Hospital. Have you been following that? I mean,
it's I it's been. It's pretty horrific, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
And what upsets me about that is that the staff
went to Health New Zealand saying we don't have enough staff.
It takes what twelve sixteen weeks in Health New Zealand
writes reports saying there are workforce issues but we don't
have a but hasn't included a plan or funding to
deal with them. And I think that that's not good enough.
(19:49):
There needs The whole purpose of this review should have
been to set out the track for improving matters, but
they haven't done that. I think it's a Whitewash.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Did you have you been following it, Mike, because basically
all the review did said there's a hell of a
lot of problems, hell of a lot of issues, but
we'll get back to.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
You, no looker, And I haven't been following it really
next at all.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So it's just something that's really been interesting me. After
my little time in the hospital, I thought to myself,
if I was in Nelson, I would be absolutely petrified.
I'd be moving to another city. I'd be out of
there aisha. I wouldn't be sitting there thinking about whether
I could get fixed in a Nelson hospital.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
I think the one of the things I take from
my time as a Minister of Health was that there
has been unequal funding of our hospitals across the country.
And if you look now, the problems in our hospitals
are biggest in Nelson Hospital, Palmerston, North Hawkes Bay, these
you know, in our provincial cities. Those hospitals are really struggling.
(20:49):
And so I look at those hospitals and think, gosh,
we need a solution for them.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Aischaverral Mike Butterwick, thanks for joining us this morning on
Politics Thursday. Have a great weekend. Gosh, yes, thanks Ja.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Thank you for more from Wellington Morning with Nick Mills.
Listen live to news talks It'd Be Wellington from nine
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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