Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said B focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said Biline.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Can you.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Politics Thursday? This week is Labour's health and Wellington's Issues.
Spokesperson I Savirol, Good morning, Ice, morning neck. Didn't walk
down this morning, but worried about that rain.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Yeah, yeah, it looks like it could start spitting at
any moment.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
There you go. So such a good walk, isn't it?
The bee hype the news talks here, B is ahead.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Especially along the waterfront when you can put it in
on a Sunday day.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Good on you and National's o techy MP Tim Costly Costly,
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Tim, Good morning. That good to be with you.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
I have to just really quickly say hi to Dave
the sewing machine repair men and also Hanger at zero Waste.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I met him last week. He's a bit fan of
your show. He listens every week.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
And he has saved eighteen tons of waste from going
to Lancelo and sign machines over the last three years.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So I think that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Absolutely, And can I just give you a little plug too?
I had lunch with a prominent Capity Coast business Albert
Mills Albert last week and your name came up and
they were very very praising of you.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
There you go so well, look they do a great
job and they gave up this year their spot on
the Wellington Rugby Jersey They're sponsorship thing for Belly Full
so that they could push the charity, which is great
because Belly will do a great job.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
But Mills Albert great team there.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, there you go. A bit of mutual admiration there
from you from your business in your area. But great
to start. Let's start with the big story of today.
David Seymour Treaty Principal's Bill will have its first reading
in Parliament today where National will vote for it, meaning
that HIKOY is now making its way down the North
isl and expected to arrive at Parliament on Tuesday next week. Tim,
(02:05):
this is this, I'll ask you the question, just a
giant wasted time, why are you supporting it?
Speaker 5 (02:13):
So we're not going to support this becoming law because
this is a really complex issue and I don't think
a really simplistic referendum the answer. But this is the
nature of democracy, right and the way the MP and
it works all around the world is that you have
three parties in coalition. They each get to bring some ideas.
This is what Active brought. We've bought you know, technique,
(02:35):
the costing of living and restoring law and order, better
health and education.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
But every party gets to bring something to the table.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
We get to choose how we vote on it, and
we will vote to stop at becoming law.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
But that this is the nature of our democracy.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Is there anything that you actually personally like about the build?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
Tim, Look, I understand the concept of people and have
a conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
There's been almost two hundred years of debate.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
I think the things that we would support and that
I support other things that we've actually.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Done, like removing the really divisive.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Co governance policies that we had from the last Labor government,
things like three waders to Malori Health Authority, and giving
a bit of democracy back to local communities by having
a referendum on things like MARII wards. So the other
bits that that I'm focused on and we're focused on
wanting to adjust alongside things like bringing structured literacy which
(03:31):
we have seen and I've seen in local schools. Mary
kids do really well under that there are some great
things we can do for Mari and for all Keyweks,
and that's where my focus is.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
H all of this division is it for nothing?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, the reason we're in the country is in this
position of yes, a very divisive six month select committee
process and hikui up and down the country today and
onwards is because, as Tim said, or the outcome of
the negotiation between the coalition partners and outcome a negotiation
(04:07):
in which Chris Luxen got a very bad outcome for
the country and perhaps he didn't realize quite the division
it would cause. But it's a total waste of time
and taxpayer money. The bill legally doesn't make sense. That's
been clear with the legal experts coming out overnight. It
probably wouldn't even do what it's aiming aiming to do
(04:29):
because you can't you need latterly change a treaty. So
it's all for nought. And in the course of that
we're going to have Mary feeling incredibly targeted by the
changes that Tim has mentioned. Many of the things that
they've sought to do to improve their health, for example,
their role in local government has been pulled back by
(04:50):
this government and this one is trying to totally pull
the rug out from under marty aspirations because the Treaty
is the way that Mary had been able to secure
a better place at the table. So it is deeply,
deeply disruptive to the fabric of New Zealand society. And
ultimately it's a sign of a weak Prime Minister that
(05:11):
we're in this position, Tim.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
Do you want to reply to that, Well, Prime Minister
is doing a great job and actually forming and holding
a coalition like this is a really difficult challenge, and
the fact that it's going so well and that this
is you know, the only thing they can point to
is that we're allowed to have different views on one
particular bill actually shows what a great job he's doing,
(05:35):
leaving the leading.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Is it going so well when when.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Life unders, you know, inflation down to two percent, interest
rates coming down, Actually making life affordable for KEYWI is
the most important thing right now, and that is going
really well. And again I would just point to things
that we're seeing, the early signs in the health system.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Of some improvement that education in particular.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Let's stick to the nitty We're talking about the Treaty
Principles Bill, not health or any use right now, I should.
Do you think that the calls to make it a
conscience vote were good, was a good idea?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Well, you know, there's there's a lot of history on
on what what should and shouldn't be a conscience vote,
And to be honest, I don't really often understand that
that history, but I do. I do think that this
does go to the conscience of MPs because ultimately, what's
(06:33):
what's here is what was Christopher Luxen prepared to trade
for power and he was prepared to trade the peace
and harmony of our country for giving this, you know,
political opportunity to David Seymour. So I think it is
(06:53):
a it is an issue that cuts to really some
of the big issues that us as MPs should should
think about. And I think Tim's efforts to kind of
try and divert us onto other things us think what
it means for our country when a large part of
our country feels like the constitutional setup they rely on
(07:15):
to be heard is taken away and that is such
a destructive thing. And as I said, that goes to
the leadership ability of the Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Talking about the Hekoy, which is because of this bill,
I should have you heard how big it's going to be.
Are you hearing anything about it? Are you going to march?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
I will try and connect with one of the one
of the marches as it comes to a city near me,
and trying to figure out where I'm going to be
when it when it arrives at the at the moment,
but you know, it's it's a pretty important moment in
our in our country, and to be honest, I've been
inspired by seeing people mobilize around the country for what
(08:00):
matters to them and and for you know, the opportunity
for us to live in a peaceful society and the future.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yea, Tim, what are you? Are you going to go
and address them? Are you going to go and see them?
Are you going to front up at Parliament? Or are
you not?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
No? I don't think that's my role, to be honest.
I think that's for the.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
Leaders of the government will design how they respond to it.
But ultimately our focus.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Is on we're moving through this next. You know, today
with the bill going through, we can get really clear
what the national part position is that we're going to
vote against this becoming law, just as we oppose the
number of other things that us lay the government did
around co governance and.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
And let's not pretend that they have the moral high
ground to stand on there.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Right, Let's talk about the apology. On Tuesday, the government
formally apologized to victims of abuse in state care, something
thousands of victims have waited decades for. But the ecology
apology came with no redress or compense, which the government
says it's still working on. Do you think this is
a hollow apology without compensation.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
I think it's the first step in an important set
of actions to achieve redress, and that the financial redress
is a priority action for the next step. So I
was pleased to see what I thought were heartfelt apologies
on Tuesday, But I understand that the redress is very
(09:39):
important to survivors and there absolutely has to be a priority.
And do want to repeat that as a Labor Party,
you know, Chris Hipkins apologize for our government not acting
quickly enough with the redress as well.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Tim Why is it taking so long to work this out? Now,
let's work through a couple of things. You can give
a tax cuts to landlords. You can give money to
businesses during COVID within a week. But this is taking forever.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Why so, I think what you're seeing is actually Eric
Stanford the Prime Minister are both working at pace as
much as they can, and there's always going to be
that awkward balance of wanting to do the right thing
and make sure we don't rush into doing something which
doesn't actually address what the survivors want. Couple with that
desire to move quickly and your few desires to say,
(10:27):
there's a real desire to see that change. And I
think you know, we've seen a number of recommendations already
completed in the last couple of months since it came out,
but now.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
The focus has to be on you know, first it was.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
About acknowledging and apologizing for the abuse. I was down
at Shed six on Tuesday with one survivor who told
me that it was the first time Tuesday was the
first time anyone had.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Apologized to her.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
That was such a big thing for them, and I
don't think we want to minimize how significant that was.
So Secondly, it's about supporting survivors and yet that the
financial redress is a part of that, and there have
been processes in place for twenty year, but we've heard
they want also a different sister so that is part
of it, but I also here from them. You know,
(11:11):
it's focused on for any future abuse. There's different elements
and each I've I've only personally met with about five
or six survivors, have a few from my region. But
they each tell me different things that they want to see,
and that's what I think.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I'll tell you a bit more complexes.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
Everyone wants something slightly different and they need to respect that.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
To mine, I know exactly what they want. They want
to see. The Solicitor General Euna Gargos gone, she's come
under so much pressure. And if you were standing with
that group watching when she got up to speak, you
would have seen it. They wanted gone. Is this a
bad look for the government.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I'm not sure which, but you're asking if bad look
for the governmental? Look, it's a bad look.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
That the Solicitor generals stands up there and gives a
speech when there's so much that she's so much history
in the cupboard there.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, look and a lot of emotion in the room.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
And I did, and I hear there and it was,
like I said, it was a really humbling experience to
be part of that.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
You would hold on to them, hold on this is
bigger than this. You would have seen that there was
a lot of anger in that, but when she got
on the stage it went to the next level. There
is bad blood. She did what a lot of these
claimants feel did wrong by them, and your government is
doing nothing about it when they should be doing something
about it. She should be gone by Monday.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Oh, look at those kind of things.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
Are decisions for the Attorney General, not for me. And
you know the Attorney General retires confidence in the Solicity General.
But you really need to talk to Judith's about that issue,
not me.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Hi. Sure, what do you think.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Well, we're trying to behave in a bipartisan way about this,
and just want to reiterate that we don't want to
get into a position where we're taking a position about
any particular public servant. And just note that Amenians since
his public servants would have been working for the government
(13:09):
of the day under instruction. It is historic what has
happened that apology in parliament on behalf of the government,
and that is on behalf of the government. There was
apologies from senior public servants, but it is on behalf
of all of the government and the public service.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Do you think she can survive.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Well. As I've said, this needs to be this whole issue.
We are trying to do right by the survivors. Observe
the recommendation.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Well, the survivors are saying they want her gone and.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Reflect that where responsibility lies across government for these.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Matters, okay. Crown Observer in Willington. Local Government Minister Simeon
Brown is appointed former Tasman District Council Chief Executive Lindsay
mackenzie as the Crown Observer for Wellington. Tim, I know
that you're going to say he's the right choice, but
surely he can't fix Willington's problems on two days a
week and flying in and flying out. Why didn't we
get someone in here, living here, breathing it and doing
(14:12):
a good job, I mean, doing a full time job
for us.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
Well, you're right, Wellington has significant challenges and that's that's
why it's come to this level as they try and
balance service delivery against it. I don't look, I don't know,
mister McKenzie, but the CV looks pretty impressive to me
across at least three councils. And you know this is
hard if you put someone in there five days a week,
you'll be telling us we're interfering and leading in too far.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
So I think this is a pretty pragmatic balance. It's
the right thing.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
It lets counsels still make their own decisions, they can
vote on things. We're not taking over that. But at
the same time we've got an observer there who can
ensure that they can address the problems that their faith.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Well, Aishavira, on this first day at work, the flame
was late or something. You didn't even get to the
council meeting. It's two days a week. This is just
a complete and I heard from very reliable sources and
correct me. Someone please correct if I'm wrong. He wasn't
the first or second or third choice. He was down
the list. So this is turning into something that we
thought we were going to get more.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
When I was a junior doctor, I used to have
nightmares about first day of work. I wouldn't turn up
on time. I had to say I felt sorry sorry
for the guy saying that splashed across the papers. Look,
I agree with Tim. I don't know him, but he's
got a thoroughly respectable CV. There did seem like the
government felt this was in a massive crisis that needed
(15:38):
urgent intervention three or four weeks ago. Now we're forgiving
a guy who's only there two days a week and
not there on the first day. Everyone wants this to
work in Wellington. Let's just hope from here on it's
nether sailing.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Do you think it will be? Tim, Have you got
confidence that this is going to go? Well, of course
you're going to say yes, but it hasn't started well.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Is it. I've got confidence and the quantums. Ever, I'm.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
I'm hopeful that that Wellington City Council can turn it
around because because it's been a mess. I mean that
what we see on the roads up up Multimeduth Street
is just one more visible sign of perhaps some of
the challenges they've been facing, the ideological approach which hasn't
been working for them.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
But I hope that with the Crown observer.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
And there, they will step up to the plate and
for the sake of everyone and Wellington, we'll see the
city back on track.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Okay, change topics. The proposed law to force the big
giants like Google and Facebook to pay media companies for
using their content seems to be on the rocks for
some sources. Talking to the Heralds say the bill is
apparently dead after Google met with Minister Paul Goldsmith. Do
you know what's going on with this bill or where
it's at.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
I don't know anything about any of those meetings. I
know he's working through the detail of the bill and
ultimately I guess you want to put those questions to him.
But it's, you know, bills. There's a lot of bills
on the order paper at the moment. They take time to.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Move up and down. So do you support that bill?
I think he's not the detail, he's the go tim.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Do you support the bill?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Look? I support if our government doesn't it you should
know that by now.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
That's not the answer I wanted. Come on, Please don't
treat me like I'm a fourth form at school before
going to school.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Sota.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
Yeah, yeah, Look, there are a couple of key changes
that were made from what we didn't support when it
had previously come to the House, and I am confiment
that that's going to make the difference. But I'm obviously
going to see the final check of it as it
comes to the house now and then I'll tell you
a bit more.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I sure has a head of first reading. How bad
do we need this. Yes, So.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
We need this because the sustainability of local media. New
Zealand media is under threat and we've seen rounds and
rounds of layoffs and that is because a business model
for our media has changed so much. Google, for example,
takes one billion dollars out of the New Zealand economy
and their activities is in competition with the advertising that
(17:59):
local media used to be able to get. That's why
we need this to level the playing field so our
local media can continue to survive and we're not just
getting news out of an AI in the future. So
it is important. However, it does need the government to
be able to get Google. You know, are they just
standing over a Google standing they are? I'm sure they are.
(18:22):
They're a massive company. They're probably bigger than our whole economy,
and you know, they can make a lot of threats
because they're basically a monopoly provider of Internet search.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Okay, I just want to quickly ask you about the
government's new public private partnership. The government is a new
framework for public private partnerships which is being cautiously supported
by Labor pp S. Triple ps allows government to spread
the cost of the new roads prisons and schools, but
there has been some huge headaches with the things like transmission,
gully tim Do private partnership public partnerships work?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yes, they do, and there are great examples.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
Around the world of where they've gone really well.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
But also in New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
You know, they've delivered a couple of roads, they've delivered schools,
they've delivered directional facilities.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Can we do them better? Absolutely?
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Need the experience and that's what this is all about.
It's getting more experienced delivering more public private partnerships. And
if you look at something like the cancer center in Melbourne,
it's been open for eight years.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Now, what a great success story.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Wouldn't it be fantastic to see that kind of thing
in our country.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Wouldn't it be great to see some new hospitals in
our country. Wouldn't it be great to see some something
like that. I share Labor is saying they're cautiously supporting us.
What's Labour's policy? What are they thinking about PPEs?
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah, Look, our overwhelming issue here is that we can't
have the situation where governments change and half the infrastructure
projects get chucked out, and that really is that is
the underlying issue. So we are prepared to work with
National to stop that from from happening. You know, Dunedin
Hospital has piles in the ground and yet it's being
(20:06):
re re litigated. We can't have this situation where things
get canned every time there's a change of government. So
for that reason we're prepared to and spokesperson Barbara Edmonds
has been working with Chris Bishop on this issue. We
see there are some situations where they can work out.
(20:26):
We're also very cautious about making sure that they're done
in a way that's continues to promote our values of fairness.
So that means, for example, being there being alternatives when
it leads to a road that's told, for example, or
to make sure that it's and that the assets remain
in private ownership.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I should add thank you both very much for coming
on the show this morning. I know you've got a
very interesting afternoon this afternoon, so have a nice walk
back down to Parliament get ready for whatever's going to
present this afternoon in Parliament. I'll be watching with baited breath,
Ice of Veril and Tim Costley. Have a great afternoon.
(21:04):
Thank you for joining the show.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Thanks Nick, Thank you next time for more from Wellington
Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live to news talks It'd
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