The government is today unvelining it's budget - and its hotly anticipated. What can we expect?
Also, Winston Peters says he wouldn't mind if a member of the public who heckled him earlier this week lost his job. Is this reasonable?
To answer those questions, Transport Minister and Hutt South MP Chris Bishop and Labour's Health and Wellington issues spokeswoman Ayesha Verrall joined Nick Mills for Politics Thursday.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk Said B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, News Talk said
B's shine.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Can you join us for Politics Thursday? This week is
Transport Minister and Huts South in p christ Bishop, Good morning, Bush,
Good morning. How are you feeling? How did you wake
up this morning? Did you sleep okay last night? What
time did you go to bed? What'd you have for breakfast?
What are you what's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I haven't had breakfast yet. I went a bit about one,
but I'm feeling I'm feeling good.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
It's a good day.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
It's a good day for New Zealand and you're going
to see a budget that's squarely focused on growth, fiscal
discipline and you know, higher living standards for New Zealanders.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
That's fundamentally what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Do you sleep through the night?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yes, yes, I've got a bed late and I wake
up early, but I sleep pretty well when I go
to bed.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh, good on you. That's good. Hi Shaviral Labour's Health
and Wellington's Issue spokeswould do you sleep well?
Speaker 5 (01:08):
Yeah? I do when I'm on holiday.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
That's not the question. Not right now, that's not a question.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
You know, busy times at Parliament and we'll have urgency
this week, so we'll be working hard through that and
sleep we'll have to wait.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
You know what, It's quite interesting because I didn't know
any of that stuff that we discussed or fair before
we went to air. I didn't realize that. You know,
you've got to work Friday, which you normally don't do
at Parliament, then Saturday and because someday you've all politicians
have got to work. Anyways, it's pretty tough gig out there,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Budget is the time when traditionally governments, you know, it's
forty years of taken urgency to put bills through, which
we'll do after we're starting this afternoon and going on
to tonight and then Saturday. It's been your business to
do lots of things.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Can I get done?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Can I just quickly ask you before we start and
get into the thick of it. Why are we getting
it called or why is Nicola calling it the no
BS budget?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I think she's just trying to be straight up with people.
You know, it's straight talk that it's a it's a budget.
That's you know, she said, you know, it's not focused
on rainbow and unicorns and you know, fluffy things. It's
it's focused on growth and higher living standards for New Zealanders.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Will there be one thing today that will go holy
hell and we'll be talking about it at nine o'clock
tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
I think there's three things in the budget that you
will be pretty excited by.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Well, so there you go, a little three.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
There'll be three things that we could possibly sit here
and me and Ethan tomorrow morning and say, what's our
lee that sorry, that story of that story?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I reckon there be yeah, three, maybe even a bit
more than that. There's a lot of really good stuff
in this budget. It's a very solidly put together document
and you know, I'm pretty excited by it. Can't wait
to see it delivered.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I am going to come to issue one second. I
just got to get is there anything in it for Wellington?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Not not in the sense of specific transport projects or
anything like that. We've made our intentions clear around transport generally,
but it's so that's unrelated to the budget. But you know,
things like the Mount Victoria tunnel and terraces and Potonia
de Grenada and Cross Valley, Lincoln, the and things like that.
You know that they're all part of the plan and
workers progressing on that, but there's nothing. There's no particularly
(03:12):
special Wellington initiative in the budget.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Hi, So what are your expectations? What are you sitting
back thinking, gosh, I hope this happens. Oh, they need
to do this, And what are you concern that they
could cut?
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Well, we've seen a year of cuts following on from
the last budget and heard pretty clearly over the last
year and in surveys just start yesterday that New Zealanders
want to see strong public service services. And I think
they're not buying the argument that the cuts of the
last year have been reinvested to improve services. I hear
(03:46):
that all across the health system that while there's been
new initiatives, and I acknowledge that the point is that
they're not keeping up with our growing population and our
older population who have more needs. So it's that keeping
up the services with the needs that New Zealanders have.
And of course the other thing are the people line
thinking about is all the women who had pay claims
(04:09):
canceled by the bill under urgency two weeks ago that
have meant that their future pay rises have been canned
for some of the initiatives in the budget. New Zealanders
will be asking is it worth it to do that
for low paid women.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
We are going to find out exactly today how much
has been saved. Do you think they're going to be shocked?
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Look, we'll see Treasury always has a way of doing
its maths with this and I was pleased to see
that the Finance Minister said that would be transparent in
this budget because you know, governing is about choices and
we think this government has made a poor choice to
sacrifice women's future pay increases for other other choices.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Chris, So, are we going to find out today how
much we saved and is it significant?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yes, we are, and Fat Nicholas taking the media through
it in the lock up right now and they will
most certainly cover that point. You'll find that it's a
substantial sum of money which is being reinvested into more doctors,
more nurses, more police, education services that our families rely on.
(05:17):
It is a significant reinvestment into the frontline services that
I Share is talking about and it's an important thing
to do.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
We keep hearing little snippets about key we savor. Is
there a significant key We Saber announcement today or you'll
have to wait and see, or you can tell me, well,
you can tell me whether that'll see me sat a
whole lot of other stuff you could tell us.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Well, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Actually, I said there'll be things you'll be talking about,
and there definitely will, but I can't get ahead of
the budget.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
One of those things that we could be talking about
could be key we Sabor tomorrow or.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Will be revealed very very soon.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Gosh, I'm being let down here. I share. If the
government does change the contribution rates of key we Saber,
will you be okay with it?
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Yeah, Look, we'll have to see that. We get the
budget documents for an hour at at one. We'll have
to see what's in there before we form our position. Obviously,
we've been a party yes tradition, we've traditionally supported ki
we Saver and greater savings for those calendars.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
What about if the means it's got means tested in
any formal side? Would that would that concern you?
Speaker 5 (06:21):
We've supported initiatives around universal super and we haven't advanced
policies around means testing ourselves in the past. Look, We're
going to have to take the time to look at
what the government's proposed, Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Chris, Chris. The reason that I'm won't give up on
this is that kee We Saver is a very very
successful organization. We know that, you know, it's done some
really wonderful things for Kiwi's and we love it. I
said this morning on the show that any sort of
serious mucking around with it could have ramifications. Have you
(06:54):
thought of that?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
All I'll say is that ke We Saver is an
important part of the savings landscape for New Zealanders, and
not only for people saving for their first home, but
obviously security and dignity in retirement. But it also is
an important part of the economic story for New Zealand.
You know, if you look at Australia, for example, one
of the reasons why the Australian economy has been successful
there are many, but one of the reasons is that
(07:17):
they've had a high level of compulsory savings through their
equivalent essentially of key we savor the compulsory super scheme schemes,
and that has led to greater capital intensity in the
Australian economy and has led to most economist would say
higher living standards over time, So key we Saver is
part of that. It was set up back in two
thousand and seven. It was obviously a labor culen initiative.
(07:40):
Michael Cullen set it up and it now enjoys widespread
support across the political spectrum.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Could you see the day in New Zealand landscape that
we duplicate the extent of the Australian system. I mean,
I told a story this morning of a guy exactly
your age, exactly your age would have gone to school
at the same time as you, that's got an average
job in Australia. He's got over three hundred thousand in
his superannuation scheme at your age.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I think, you know there's ongoing debates about that over
the last ten to fifteen years. You know, the Aussies
have gone to from memory will be mid next year
fifteen percent compulsory savings through through people's pay. But they
started in nineteen eighty eight. So the Australian equivalent of
(08:26):
qv saber was introduced by Paul Keating's government Hawk Keating
government in eighty eight, so they've had a long time
to get to that point. So I think I think
there's that's that's an ongoing conversation around around lifting rates
over time. But as I say, it took Australia, you know,
thirty five forty years to get to that point.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Take a very short break and be back with Aisha
Verel and Chris. I was going to say again, Chris Bishop.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Christmas, it is definitely me.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, I've said in my haste before it was Chris
Hipkins coming and I've got a couple of text saying
why have I got to laborers to be a very
balanced It wouldn't have been a very balanced.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
And I've got it would be fun.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I've got it would be that much fun.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I agree at the moment.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Politics Thursday, Chris Bishop Aischaverral Chris, I want to start
with you on this one. You stood at the railway
station on Tuesday announcing a six hundred million dollar investment
in rail with Winston Peters. Before I get to the
fun part of the story, what does that six hundred
million dollars mean to Wellington? Because Wellington Rail Wellington Rail
(09:36):
go hand in hand. We're better than we do it
better than anywhere else in the country.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
We do and it's you know, I love the Wellington
rail network. I didn't buy my first cartoloism in the twenties.
I took the train to and from school.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Every day for five years.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
So the rail networks very important for me, it's important
for my electorate, it's important for Wellington. So we need
to be honest about the fact that we've got hundreds
of millions of dollars of overdue work to be done
on the on the on the tracks and on the
on the system. And so in last year's budget we
put a and fifty million dollars or so into that
(10:08):
into Auckland and Wellington. This year's budget puts another one
hundred and forty three point six million. It funds two
more years of renewals and maintenance work on the tracks.
It's more as required, so that there's going to need
to be ongoing investment. But you know, it's things like
out my way that the Ava rail bridge right out
by across the Hut River. It's one hundred years old,
it's had it and frankly we should have done work
on it before.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Now.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
There's heaps of little examples like that right around the network,
in both Auckland and Wellington. So one hundred and forty
three point six million on top of last year's work.
The exact division between Auckland and Wellington will be negotiated
because the Regional Council and orkand Transport good of chipping
some money too. Is a bit of a negotiation to
undergo there. But it will mean basically a more reliable
rail network in Wellington.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
That's good news.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I sure. I mean this is music to your ears.
You'd love the idea of more rail and money going
into rail. But for me, it's reliability. It is the
one word that we keep forgetting. There's a big event
on Wellington, you've got buses. It's we're let down continuously
by it. And you're right. We all grew up anyone
that lived in Wellington and lived in the suburbs grew
up with the rail ray and it was always fantastic.
(11:11):
We loved it. It turned up on time and we got
us to place. It's now catch a bus. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Reliability is important health and do we switch on the
radio in the morning and here of disruptions which mean
people just can't count on the system to come to work.
So we welcome this announcement. We've had it in the past.
That past national governments haven't kept up rail investment and
left it to labor to fix. So we're pleased that
that neglect isn't repeating itself on this occasion. Of course,
(11:39):
we did big investments in the wided upper in manu Watu,
as well as the public Transport Fair subsidies which applied
to rail as well.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Chris, all right, let's talk about it, our mate. Someone's
old mate wonders down. You were right in the middle
of a platform of the busy railway station. Surely you
expected to coppy little bit of flak.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well, I wasn't quite when we did the arrangements, I
wasn't quite aware that there'd be a stream of commuters
coming off the Art Valley Line or the Wire Apple
Line behind us. But there were, and so you know,
you get a bit of I mean, one guy decided
obviously have a bit of a swing.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
That's good, that's all good. It's a bit of fun games.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Winston' has come out and said he didn't care a
damn if he loses his job. Would you care if
he lost his job?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, ultimately, as an employment matter for Tonkin and Taylor,
from my point of view, I mean, look, it's it's
what it is. I mean, it was a bit of
fun and games.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I mean you're calling it fun and games. I don't
think Winston called it thought of it as fun and games.
I mean he might have as he was walking out
when he finished with you, but at the time, you
know he was, he was, he was copying it a
little bit. He wasn't enjoying all.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
The guy was saying some fairly offensive things about about
about mister Peters and world leaders and things like that.
But you know, even mister Peters gave as good as
he got back and returned. So look, I think you
could get word up about these things. I ultimately, you know,
you should he have yelled at him. No was an ideal, No,
But look, these things happen. It's that's politics, that's you know,
(13:17):
reliving a robust democracy.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I'm concerned that you're calling him mister Peters. Is there's
that much respect that you've got to call him mister Peters?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Oh that's his name?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Sometimes call him Winston's me calling you mister bishop. Okay, Winston,
what do you think I should do you think that
the guy should lose his jo? I don't. I do
not think he should lose his job. He gave a
little bit of verbal and it went backwards and forwards
and it got eaten. It was no different than someone
in a you know, a little bit of road rage.
Was it? It was called platform rage.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
No, I don't agree he should lose his job, as
Chris has said, and he was, he was there. I wasn't.
It did appear Winston gave his as good as he got.
And I think I saw the famous Winston Peter's pearly
whites flashed at the TV camera At some points.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I was just being like that Homer Simpson's meme, you
know when he just you just edged backwards into the
into the hedge.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
You look like you know what you look like. I'll
tell you what you look like, because I've seen it
five times. You look like the guy in the in
the in the circuits circus that goes backwards and forwards
with the open mouth and you throw up. And you
didn't know what day it was. You were saying. You
were saying, please Lord, I'm surprising this. You were saying,
please Lord, get me out of this right now. I
don't not need to be here. I've got too many
(14:32):
things to do in my life. I just tend to
hear watch out, be It observer.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
A little bit of that, but all at least things.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
And it reminded me of the campaign that stuff captains
and election campaigns and that sort of stuff when you
do a lot of public events and stuff.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
But oh well, you.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Know the weird thing for me on the side, Sharon,
and it's it's a point that I will remember for
the rest of my life because it kind of one
of those moments. And I'm no Ja zinder Ardurn fan
or anything. She went to open a school down south.
I don't know whether you remember the insident. I think
we've talked about it before where she went in a
white van and as she left the white in a
white van, they were thumping the thing and the security
(15:05):
we're concerned. They were school teachers, they were working for
the government. Some of those people, they were early childhood
teachers and people. Why do they not lose their job?
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Well, I don't think anyone should lose their job for
exercising free speech. The issue that you're raising, hair though,
in this example, is when there's crossing over from freely
expressing your opinion into intimidation or and then there's a
spectrum from there through to violence. And one of the
things I feel we need to be able to do
(15:37):
is all people in New Zealand is to be able
to express our differences and our differences of opinion in
a way that's constructive and doesn't spill into either verbal
aggression or hitting cars or whatever. And you know, everything
we can do to keep the tone one of respect,
as I reckon a positive thing for our political environment.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And as my wife says to me, every time someone
gives me a little bit of verbal she said, just
shut up and keep walking. And that's what Babe Winston
should have done. Just carried on and the guy would
have gone away anyway. Give him them my bit of advice.
We're all geared up, me included. On Tuesday, took the
afternoon off, you know, had telled everyone I'm going to
go and watch this big debate twenty one day suspension
(16:23):
for Taparty Marry Co leaders. And it started. Then Chris,
you shut it up. You ruined my afternoon, You ruined
my you know, Fiji miight and Chippy Sandwich. Why did
you shut it down?
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Oh well, I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Nick.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Look, we just came to the view that It's a
couple of things. One is Budget week and we wanted
the focus to be on the budget today in the
subsequent days, and it's a distraction from that.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
So that's the first thing.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Secondly, just as a matter of principle, I firmly believe
and so of many of my colleagues, that there's nothing
more central to the operation of Parliament than the budget.
You know, literally, constitutionally, the government is not allowed to
govern without a budget and without the authority to spend
money approved by part Parliament. And the debate on that
is an important debate. And if we suspended the Married
(17:10):
Party on Tuesday, they wouldn't be allowed to participate in
the debate and vote on the debate. So we've pushed
it out to after the budget debate, essentially in budget week,
so they get to participate.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
But we'll come back to dealing with you.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Idea, because you know, at the time I thought, I'm damn,
But then I thought, how smart. That's a very clever idea.
Please tell me it was your idea.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Well, it was a collective effort.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Well, someone must have actually said let's get together and work.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
We don't need to get into that.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
But Jones seems to be saying a lot on his Facebook.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I haven't seen any of yet, but it will Also
it was a collectives across the three parties, across the
leadership of the three parties nationally.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, you gained a bit of kudos out of it because.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
You congratulating Chris, who was in charge of the program
of Parliament, for setting up a debate during budget.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
I didn't. I didn't do that.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I thought it was I thought it was a very
smart idea.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Who closely worth Judith Collins. I have legends committee was
coming back to no I had, and then, after realizing
that the entire country was taking a day off as
you described, in order to tune into this debate, realizes, oh,
I've made a mistake with it the government's budget, and
I need to come up with an adjournment in the
in the middle of this debate. I mean, that's congratulating
(18:25):
him on fixing his own stuff up is quite something.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Let let's be really clear, I had nothing to do
with When the Privileges Committee reported I have had nothing
to do with that debate. That was that issue. It
was reported back by the Privileges Committee. The Standing Orders dictate.
It's set down immediately next House sitting day, So it did.
I had nothing to do with it. And you know
we we we've addouned it to a to a better day.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
So you said that if that was your plan all
along on Monday when he was interviewed about.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
It, Well, it wasn't the plan on Monday.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
So so you were fixing your stuff up. No, no, no,
your job title was Leader of the House.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
The bit of discussion over exactly what to do the
the issue was set down and we came So I
think the pragmatic and principal view between Monday, because Monday
and Tuesday that it was the right thing to do.
Just take the temperature down a notch, just take the
steam out of the honey, as Shane Jones says, and
just and I think all of Parliament's going to benefit
from people just taking the taking taking the temperature of it.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
I'm pleased to hear you recognizing that it is a
very serious thing to take to take opposition MPs out
of Parliament around a round budget. I'm pleased that that's
the case. And of course you know that's not to
distract from the fact that what TPM did was serious
as well.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Well.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
I think, as I've said to them privately and I've
said to them publicly as well, the easiest way through
is for them to recognize they made a mistake and
did wrong and apologize.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
And they have not done that.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
In fact, they don't even recognize the jurisdiction of the
Privileges Committee. They need to realize what they did was
wrong and accept that.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
You know, my big question is right now is will
there be in Parliament this afternoon anyway?
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Well, I've given them the opportunit and to make sure
that they can.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
They didn't bother showing up last year, so they got
another opportunity this year at least wait and see.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, well that surprise you.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Look, I'm not there mother, You.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Got God for that. I want to deal with those
unruly children.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I could sit here all day talking to you guys.
But I know you on a very very t the budget.
I know, good on you. I appreciate you both coming
on the stage and yeah, I really appreciate. I know
that it's a big strain and I'm waiting for those
three things.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Three things, Well touch base afterwards you can you can
tell me what you think.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Appreciate you both enjoyed having you here it is twenty
nine minutes to twelve. Chris Bishop and I severil the
rushing off back down to get to those three things.
Those three things, I don't believe them, but I trust them.
How's that? Is that a right to say that something's
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am week days.
Follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk Said B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, News Talk said
B's shine.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Can you join us for Politics Thursday? This week is
Transport Minister and Huts South in p christ Bishop, Good morning, Bush,
Good morning. How are you feeling? How did you wake
up this morning? Did you sleep okay last night? What
time did you go to bed? What'd you have for breakfast?
What are you what's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I haven't had breakfast yet. I went a bit about one,
but I'm feeling I'm feeling good.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
It's a good day.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
It's a good day for New Zealand and you're going
to see a budget that's squarely focused on growth, fiscal
discipline and you know, higher living standards for New Zealanders.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
That's fundamentally what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Do you sleep through the night?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yes, yes, I've got a bed late and I wake
up early, but I sleep pretty well when I go
to bed.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh, good on you. That's good. Hi Shaviral Labour's Health
and Wellington's Issue spokeswould do you sleep well?
Speaker 5 (01:08):
Yeah? I do when I'm on holiday.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
That's not the question. Not right now, that's not a question.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
You know, busy times at Parliament and we'll have urgency
this week, so we'll be working hard through that and
sleep we'll have to wait.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
You know what, It's quite interesting because I didn't know
any of that stuff that we discussed or fair before
we went to air. I didn't realize that. You know,
you've got to work Friday, which you normally don't do
at Parliament, then Saturday and because someday you've all politicians
have got to work. Anyways, it's pretty tough gig out there,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Budget is the time when traditionally governments, you know, it's
forty years of taken urgency to put bills through, which
we'll do after we're starting this afternoon and going on
to tonight and then Saturday. It's been your business to
do lots of things.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Can I get done?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Can I just quickly ask you before we start and
get into the thick of it. Why are we getting
it called or why is Nicola calling it the no
BS budget?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I think she's just trying to be straight up with people.
You know, it's straight talk that it's a it's a budget.
That's you know, she said, you know, it's not focused
on rainbow and unicorns and you know, fluffy things. It's
it's focused on growth and higher living standards for New Zealanders.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Will there be one thing today that will go holy
hell and we'll be talking about it at nine o'clock
tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
I think there's three things in the budget that you
will be pretty excited by.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Well, so there you go, a little three.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
There'll be three things that we could possibly sit here
and me and Ethan tomorrow morning and say, what's our
lee that sorry, that story of that story?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I reckon there be yeah, three, maybe even a bit
more than that. There's a lot of really good stuff
in this budget. It's a very solidly put together document
and you know, I'm pretty excited by it. Can't wait
to see it delivered.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I am going to come to issue one second. I
just got to get is there anything in it for Wellington?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Not not in the sense of specific transport projects or
anything like that. We've made our intentions clear around transport generally,
but it's so that's unrelated to the budget. But you know,
things like the Mount Victoria tunnel and terraces and Potonia
de Grenada and Cross Valley, Lincoln, the and things like that.
You know that they're all part of the plan and
workers progressing on that, but there's nothing. There's no particularly
(03:12):
special Wellington initiative in the budget.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Hi, So what are your expectations? What are you sitting
back thinking, gosh, I hope this happens. Oh, they need
to do this, And what are you concern that they
could cut?
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Well, we've seen a year of cuts following on from
the last budget and heard pretty clearly over the last
year and in surveys just start yesterday that New Zealanders
want to see strong public service services. And I think
they're not buying the argument that the cuts of the
last year have been reinvested to improve services. I hear
(03:46):
that all across the health system that while there's been
new initiatives, and I acknowledge that the point is that
they're not keeping up with our growing population and our
older population who have more needs. So it's that keeping
up the services with the needs that New Zealanders have.
And of course the other thing are the people line
thinking about is all the women who had pay claims
(04:09):
canceled by the bill under urgency two weeks ago that
have meant that their future pay rises have been canned
for some of the initiatives in the budget. New Zealanders
will be asking is it worth it to do that
for low paid women.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
We are going to find out exactly today how much
has been saved. Do you think they're going to be shocked?
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Look, we'll see Treasury always has a way of doing
its maths with this and I was pleased to see
that the Finance Minister said that would be transparent in
this budget because you know, governing is about choices and
we think this government has made a poor choice to
sacrifice women's future pay increases for other other choices.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Chris, So, are we going to find out today how
much we saved and is it significant?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yes, we are, and Fat Nicholas taking the media through
it in the lock up right now and they will
most certainly cover that point. You'll find that it's a
substantial sum of money which is being reinvested into more doctors,
more nurses, more police, education services that our families rely on.
(05:17):
It is a significant reinvestment into the frontline services that
I Share is talking about and it's an important thing
to do.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
We keep hearing little snippets about key we savor. Is
there a significant key We Saber announcement today or you'll
have to wait and see, or you can tell me, well,
you can tell me whether that'll see me sat a
whole lot of other stuff you could tell us.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Well, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Actually, I said there'll be things you'll be talking about,
and there definitely will, but I can't get ahead of
the budget.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
One of those things that we could be talking about
could be key we Sabor tomorrow or.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Will be revealed very very soon.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Gosh, I'm being let down here. I share. If the
government does change the contribution rates of key we Saber,
will you be okay with it?
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Yeah, Look, we'll have to see that. We get the
budget documents for an hour at at one. We'll have
to see what's in there before we form our position. Obviously,
we've been a party yes tradition, we've traditionally supported ki
we Saver and greater savings for those calendars.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
What about if the means it's got means tested in
any formal side? Would that would that concern you?
Speaker 5 (06:21):
We've supported initiatives around universal super and we haven't advanced
policies around means testing ourselves in the past. Look, We're
going to have to take the time to look at
what the government's proposed, Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Chris, Chris. The reason that I'm won't give up on
this is that kee We Saver is a very very
successful organization. We know that, you know, it's done some
really wonderful things for Kiwi's and we love it. I
said this morning on the show that any sort of
serious mucking around with it could have ramifications. Have you
(06:54):
thought of that?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
All I'll say is that ke We Saver is an
important part of the savings landscape for New Zealanders, and
not only for people saving for their first home, but
obviously security and dignity in retirement. But it also is
an important part of the economic story for New Zealand.
You know, if you look at Australia, for example, one
of the reasons why the Australian economy has been successful
there are many, but one of the reasons is that
(07:17):
they've had a high level of compulsory savings through their
equivalent essentially of key we savor the compulsory super scheme schemes,
and that has led to greater capital intensity in the
Australian economy and has led to most economist would say
higher living standards over time, So key we Saver is
part of that. It was set up back in two
thousand and seven. It was obviously a labor culen initiative.
(07:40):
Michael Cullen set it up and it now enjoys widespread
support across the political spectrum.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Could you see the day in New Zealand landscape that
we duplicate the extent of the Australian system. I mean,
I told a story this morning of a guy exactly
your age, exactly your age would have gone to school
at the same time as you, that's got an average
job in Australia. He's got over three hundred thousand in
his superannuation scheme at your age.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I think, you know there's ongoing debates about that over
the last ten to fifteen years. You know, the Aussies
have gone to from memory will be mid next year
fifteen percent compulsory savings through through people's pay. But they
started in nineteen eighty eight. So the Australian equivalent of
(08:26):
qv saber was introduced by Paul Keating's government Hawk Keating
government in eighty eight, so they've had a long time
to get to that point. So I think I think
there's that's that's an ongoing conversation around around lifting rates
over time. But as I say, it took Australia, you know,
thirty five forty years to get to that point.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Take a very short break and be back with Aisha
Verel and Chris. I was going to say again, Chris Bishop.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Christmas, it is definitely me.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, I've said in my haste before it was Chris
Hipkins coming and I've got a couple of text saying
why have I got to laborers to be a very
balanced It wouldn't have been a very balanced.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
And I've got it would be fun.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I've got it would be that much fun.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I agree at the moment.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Politics Thursday, Chris Bishop Aischaverral Chris, I want to start
with you on this one. You stood at the railway
station on Tuesday announcing a six hundred million dollar investment
in rail with Winston Peters. Before I get to the
fun part of the story, what does that six hundred
million dollars mean to Wellington? Because Wellington Rail Wellington Rail
(09:36):
go hand in hand. We're better than we do it
better than anywhere else in the country.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
We do and it's you know, I love the Wellington
rail network. I didn't buy my first cartoloism in the twenties.
I took the train to and from school.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Every day for five years.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
So the rail networks very important for me, it's important
for my electorate, it's important for Wellington. So we need
to be honest about the fact that we've got hundreds
of millions of dollars of overdue work to be done
on the on the on the tracks and on the
on the system. And so in last year's budget we
put a and fifty million dollars or so into that
(10:08):
into Auckland and Wellington. This year's budget puts another one
hundred and forty three point six million. It funds two
more years of renewals and maintenance work on the tracks.
It's more as required, so that there's going to need
to be ongoing investment. But you know, it's things like
out my way that the Ava rail bridge right out
by across the Hut River. It's one hundred years old,
it's had it and frankly we should have done work
on it before.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Now.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
There's heaps of little examples like that right around the network,
in both Auckland and Wellington. So one hundred and forty
three point six million on top of last year's work.
The exact division between Auckland and Wellington will be negotiated
because the Regional Council and orkand Transport good of chipping
some money too. Is a bit of a negotiation to
undergo there. But it will mean basically a more reliable
rail network in Wellington.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
That's good news.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I sure. I mean this is music to your ears.
You'd love the idea of more rail and money going
into rail. But for me, it's reliability. It is the
one word that we keep forgetting. There's a big event
on Wellington, you've got buses. It's we're let down continuously
by it. And you're right. We all grew up anyone
that lived in Wellington and lived in the suburbs grew
up with the rail ray and it was always fantastic.
(11:11):
We loved it. It turned up on time and we got
us to place. It's now catch a bus. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Reliability is important health and do we switch on the
radio in the morning and here of disruptions which mean
people just can't count on the system to come to work.
So we welcome this announcement. We've had it in the past.
That past national governments haven't kept up rail investment and
left it to labor to fix. So we're pleased that
that neglect isn't repeating itself on this occasion. Of course,
(11:39):
we did big investments in the wided upper in manu Watu,
as well as the public Transport Fair subsidies which applied
to rail as well.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Chris, all right, let's talk about it, our mate. Someone's
old mate wonders down. You were right in the middle
of a platform of the busy railway station. Surely you
expected to coppy little bit of flak.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well, I wasn't quite when we did the arrangements, I
wasn't quite aware that there'd be a stream of commuters
coming off the Art Valley Line or the Wire Apple
Line behind us. But there were, and so you know,
you get a bit of I mean, one guy decided
obviously have a bit of a swing.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
That's good, that's all good. It's a bit of fun games.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Winston' has come out and said he didn't care a
damn if he loses his job. Would you care if
he lost his job?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, ultimately, as an employment matter for Tonkin and Taylor,
from my point of view, I mean, look, it's it's
what it is. I mean, it was a bit of
fun and games.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I mean you're calling it fun and games. I don't
think Winston called it thought of it as fun and games.
I mean he might have as he was walking out
when he finished with you, but at the time, you
know he was, he was, he was copying it a
little bit. He wasn't enjoying all.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
The guy was saying some fairly offensive things about about
about mister Peters and world leaders and things like that.
But you know, even mister Peters gave as good as
he got back and returned. So look, I think you
could get word up about these things. I ultimately, you know,
you should he have yelled at him. No was an ideal, No,
But look, these things happen. It's that's politics, that's you know,
(13:17):
reliving a robust democracy.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I'm concerned that you're calling him mister Peters. Is there's
that much respect that you've got to call him mister Peters?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Oh that's his name?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Sometimes call him Winston's me calling you mister bishop. Okay, Winston,
what do you think I should do you think that
the guy should lose his jo? I don't. I do
not think he should lose his job. He gave a
little bit of verbal and it went backwards and forwards
and it got eaten. It was no different than someone
in a you know, a little bit of road rage.
Was it? It was called platform rage.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
No, I don't agree he should lose his job, as
Chris has said, and he was, he was there. I wasn't.
It did appear Winston gave his as good as he got.
And I think I saw the famous Winston Peter's pearly
whites flashed at the TV camera At some points.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I was just being like that Homer Simpson's meme, you
know when he just you just edged backwards into the
into the hedge.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
You look like you know what you look like. I'll
tell you what you look like, because I've seen it
five times. You look like the guy in the in
the in the circuits circus that goes backwards and forwards
with the open mouth and you throw up. And you
didn't know what day it was. You were saying. You
were saying, please Lord, I'm surprising this. You were saying,
please Lord, get me out of this right now. I
don't not need to be here. I've got too many
(14:32):
things to do in my life. I just tend to
hear watch out, be It observer.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
A little bit of that, but all at least things.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
And it reminded me of the campaign that stuff captains
and election campaigns and that sort of stuff when you
do a lot of public events and stuff.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
But oh well, you.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Know the weird thing for me on the side, Sharon,
and it's it's a point that I will remember for
the rest of my life because it kind of one
of those moments. And I'm no Ja zinder Ardurn fan
or anything. She went to open a school down south.
I don't know whether you remember the insident. I think
we've talked about it before where she went in a
white van and as she left the white in a
white van, they were thumping the thing and the security
(15:05):
we're concerned. They were school teachers, they were working for
the government. Some of those people, they were early childhood
teachers and people. Why do they not lose their job?
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Well, I don't think anyone should lose their job for
exercising free speech. The issue that you're raising, hair though,
in this example, is when there's crossing over from freely
expressing your opinion into intimidation or and then there's a
spectrum from there through to violence. And one of the
things I feel we need to be able to do
(15:37):
is all people in New Zealand is to be able
to express our differences and our differences of opinion in
a way that's constructive and doesn't spill into either verbal
aggression or hitting cars or whatever. And you know, everything
we can do to keep the tone one of respect,
as I reckon a positive thing for our political environment.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And as my wife says to me, every time someone
gives me a little bit of verbal she said, just
shut up and keep walking. And that's what Babe Winston
should have done. Just carried on and the guy would
have gone away anyway. Give him them my bit of advice.
We're all geared up, me included. On Tuesday, took the
afternoon off, you know, had telled everyone I'm going to
go and watch this big debate twenty one day suspension
(16:23):
for Taparty Marry Co leaders. And it started. Then Chris,
you shut it up. You ruined my afternoon, You ruined
my you know, Fiji miight and Chippy Sandwich. Why did
you shut it down?
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Oh well, I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Nick.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Look, we just came to the view that It's a
couple of things. One is Budget week and we wanted
the focus to be on the budget today in the
subsequent days, and it's a distraction from that.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
So that's the first thing.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Secondly, just as a matter of principle, I firmly believe
and so of many of my colleagues, that there's nothing
more central to the operation of Parliament than the budget.
You know, literally, constitutionally, the government is not allowed to
govern without a budget and without the authority to spend
money approved by part Parliament. And the debate on that
is an important debate. And if we suspended the Married
(17:10):
Party on Tuesday, they wouldn't be allowed to participate in
the debate and vote on the debate. So we've pushed
it out to after the budget debate, essentially in budget week,
so they get to participate.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
But we'll come back to dealing with you.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Idea, because you know, at the time I thought, I'm damn,
But then I thought, how smart. That's a very clever idea.
Please tell me it was your idea.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Well, it was a collective effort.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Well, someone must have actually said let's get together and work.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
We don't need to get into that.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
But Jones seems to be saying a lot on his Facebook.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I haven't seen any of yet, but it will Also
it was a collectives across the three parties, across the
leadership of the three parties nationally.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, you gained a bit of kudos out of it because.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
You congratulating Chris, who was in charge of the program
of Parliament, for setting up a debate during budget.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
I didn't. I didn't do that.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I thought it was I thought it was a very
smart idea.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Who closely worth Judith Collins. I have legends committee was
coming back to no I had, and then, after realizing
that the entire country was taking a day off as
you described, in order to tune into this debate, realizes, oh,
I've made a mistake with it the government's budget, and
I need to come up with an adjournment in the
in the middle of this debate. I mean, that's congratulating
(18:25):
him on fixing his own stuff up is quite something.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Let let's be really clear, I had nothing to do
with When the Privileges Committee reported I have had nothing
to do with that debate. That was that issue. It
was reported back by the Privileges Committee. The Standing Orders dictate.
It's set down immediately next House sitting day, So it did.
I had nothing to do with it. And you know
we we we've addouned it to a to a better day.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
So you said that if that was your plan all
along on Monday when he was interviewed about.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
It, Well, it wasn't the plan on Monday.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
So so you were fixing your stuff up. No, no, no,
your job title was Leader of the House.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
The bit of discussion over exactly what to do the
the issue was set down and we came So I
think the pragmatic and principal view between Monday, because Monday
and Tuesday that it was the right thing to do.
Just take the temperature down a notch, just take the
steam out of the honey, as Shane Jones says, and
just and I think all of Parliament's going to benefit
from people just taking the taking taking the temperature of it.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
I'm pleased to hear you recognizing that it is a
very serious thing to take to take opposition MPs out
of Parliament around a round budget. I'm pleased that that's
the case. And of course you know that's not to
distract from the fact that what TPM did was serious
as well.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Well.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
I think, as I've said to them privately and I've
said to them publicly as well, the easiest way through
is for them to recognize they made a mistake and
did wrong and apologize.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
And they have not done that.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
In fact, they don't even recognize the jurisdiction of the
Privileges Committee. They need to realize what they did was
wrong and accept that.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
You know, my big question is right now is will
there be in Parliament this afternoon anyway?
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Well, I've given them the opportunit and to make sure
that they can.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
They didn't bother showing up last year, so they got
another opportunity this year at least wait and see.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, well that surprise you.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Look, I'm not there mother, You.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Got God for that. I want to deal with those
unruly children.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I could sit here all day talking to you guys.
But I know you on a very very t the budget.
I know, good on you. I appreciate you both coming
on the stage and yeah, I really appreciate. I know
that it's a big strain and I'm waiting for those
three things.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Three things, Well touch base afterwards you can you can
tell me what you think.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Appreciate you both enjoyed having you here it is twenty
nine minutes to twelve. Chris Bishop and I severil the
rushing off back down to get to those three things.
Those three things, I don't believe them, but I trust them.
How's that? Is that a right to say that something's
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am week days.
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