Inflation has hit 3.3%, inching ever so closer to the Reserve Bank's one to three per cent target range, so how soon will we see interest rate cuts?
And what will the impact be of David Seymour's direction to Pharmac that they stop considering the treaty in decision making?
Those were the questions for the Wellington Mornings politics panel this week, with Labour's police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and Wairarapa MP Mike Butterick.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talk said
Blatzi Shan.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Can you make a right decision for all of us,
for all of the joining us this morning for politics
Thursday is Labor Police spokesperson Jenny Anderson. Good morning, Joennny,
Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm good, thank you. I had a good recess week
doing nothing, hanging out. What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I flew back from China yesterday, so a little bit
we but hazy after a long time in the year.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
What were you doing in China? Can I ask? Was
that being rude?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I was on on my first private my own travel
since I've been an MP. Actually I've visited my brother
and his newborn son who lives in Sujo to Estatis, Shanghai.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Oh beautiful. I hope everything's good. That's great. National MP
for the wire Rapper Mike Butterick, Mike, good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
And welcome, Good morning, Nook and morning Jenny, Good morning, Mike.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Now, Mike, our listeners won't know a lot about you,
so give us a one sentence describing Mike butter.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
It one sentence. Hello, a chef and beef farmer, but
a husband and a father of four, if I must
say so myself, are pretty great kids.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Great. So you're a farmer boy from the Wire Rapper.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah, MC Cannerbury leader originally and I've been up here
since nineteen ninety.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Ah. There you go, Canterbury farmer living in the wire Rapper.
That's what. That's all we need to know, Jinny, isn't
it Well?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Both originally from Canterbury, So there you go. Something in
common already.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh you had a good rugby team. You both had
a good rugby team. And is she anyway? Let's start
with inflation. Figure out yesterday inflation to the year June
is down three point three percent to three point three percent.
We're getting closer and closer to the reserves being target
of one to three percent. Mike, let's start with you.
National is obviously pretty damn excited about this on social
media yesterday. How much credit can you as a government
(02:10):
take for this?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
I think this Certainly government has contributed to the cost,
the inflationary cost neck but I think it is great news.
It shows that we're heading in the right direction. But
I would also comment that we've got to make sure
we don't lose focus because embedded in amongst that inflation,
it's a pretty stubborn domestic component, you know. So we've
(02:34):
got to remain discipline with our spending and just keep
our own the price.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Jinny, what do you think? I mean, the difficulty we've
got is we can't get the rates down and we
can't get the insurance down. So we're still going to
fight for this, aren't we.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
It is.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I mean, if you talk to people on the street,
they're not seeing that yet, so it's good it's hitting
in the right direction. But people who are paying at
the checkout doi'll feel that hurts. Rent and mortgages are
the biggest ones, and it is a concern with the
government policy. Instead of being able to catch chenance out
with no real requirements, fewer restrictions on landlords who want
to keep putting rents up and even scrapping the first
(03:11):
home grant, it does mean that it still makes that
housing area really trusted to New Zealanders.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Mike, do you want to yeah, I mean I think
that's a little bit rich. I mean, in the last
government administration, rents went up an average of one hundred
and eighty dollars a week. So look in terms of
all the complexities that feed into that housing stuff, it
is complex. It hasn't been something that's eventuated in the
last little while that we've had a housing issue for
(03:38):
a number of years, if not decades, and so there
are certainly some challenges, but you know, we're addressing some
of those some of those problems head on with Ministers
Bishop and Pink and it'll be some of all parts
of a lot of things. It's about freeing up land
for housing because certainly there's been the restriction of that
has added to the cost of buying houses or building houses.
(04:00):
It's about the consenting charges, which we will have to
talk about that have edited cost. It's about getting some
competition into the market, about allowing approved you know, products
that approved in other countries into the market. So it'll
be some of all parts that can help alleviate some
of those housing press Judie.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
How important is that we get to the rate cut
down soon, because I mean, you'll be knowing it. We're
doing it tough, aren't we.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
They're really doing it tough. You know, I was talking
to someone in the hut they've got a three bedroom
house and they pay seven hundred and fifty a week,
and that's in the Hut Valley, and that's due to
go up shortly, and they're really concerned that. You know,
if it's fifty dollars and it's eight hundred dollars a
week and you're taking home maybe twelve hundred, if you know,
there's no money left for food and for extra things
(04:48):
for kids. So that big component out of your wages
that's going to rent or to mortgage repayments leaves families
with very little to be able to do those extra things.
And we see that in Wellington with people not eating
out in restaurants, clothing.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
How important is it to you, Mike that we actually
get that rite down interest look at.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Is critically important because that is the fundamentally that is
the number one issue were concern for New Zealanders at
the moment. It's just the general cost of living and
I think, look it is, so we're absolutely focused on
getting that down. And of course when we get it
down at what it will do is provide some confidence.
And confidence is a wonderful thing because confidence allows people
(05:28):
to actually think ahead, think about their investment opportunities and
how they can grow themselves and look at those opportunities.
So it is critically important, Jenny.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Do you think people are confident at the moment.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I don't think they are. I think it has been
an incredibly uncertain time. Yes, we're looking at those more
good rates and they're looking like they could come down,
but it really depends on what the individual circumstances of
people are. Those people who fixed the rate, you know,
and it was they only just came off it maybe
three or four months ago. They really felt the bite,
and I think that's where we saw the economy really stagnating,
(06:04):
as people on sixth rates that had a good four
dable rate came off those rates and that has flowed
off into rent hikes and people having less money in
their pocket each week. So let's not forget that even
when those rates come down, it takes a while for
that to filter down into people's.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Pockets, Jenny. Earlier this week, David Seymour revealed he's directed
FARMAC to stop considering the treaty and its decisions, saying
farmacs have been making decisions on what drugs to buy
for all New Zealanders in mind. Why did Labour come
out against this move.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
That was the reference to removing the treaty and that
letter of intent. This is the same government that in
the same day reinstated got rid of smoke free and
got rid of the Malori Health Authority. What David Cymour
and this government don't realize is that better our health
outcomes for Maudi makes the tax bill smaller in the country,
(06:57):
better for all New Zealanders. So the fact that Mardi
have poor health statistics, it's better for taxpayers and it's
better for our population if we make sure we improve
Maori health outcomes. So grand standing on taking the treaty
out of Pharmac and not giving consideration to our obligations
under the treaty looks tough for him to a certain
(07:19):
group of voters, but it doesn't do anything long term
to improving New Zealand's health outcomes.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Mike, what does considering the treaty have to do with
buying drugs for everyone?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
A lot?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
To be honest, Nick, I think we need to think
about the Statute of pharmac statutory responsibility, which is fundamentally
to deliver improve health comes based on data and evidence
and based on needs and Sorry, why can't you do.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
That alongside of the treaty? You can do both, It's possible.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Jinny, can you just explain to me? Can you just
explain to me, because I you know, I did the
story last this week, and can you just explain to
me what the treaty has got to do with FARMI.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, it's about equity. So everyone's not starting from the
same starting point. You've got some people starting fifty meters
behind the starting line, and what if those people starting
in a detrimental in a backward position. How much are
they costing? What are the drugs that are needing them?
So taking that into account, saying this group of people
who require this group of drug, if not funded, will
(08:22):
costs the taxpayer x million in their lifeline and the
whole of their life. Let's wagh that up and look
at the overall healthcomes of funding people. And maybe there
are some obligations under the treaty that would make better
health outcomes for all New Zealanders and that needs to
be taken into account with assessing what drugs to buy.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So I'm a little bit confused here. So you're saying
that Marie would take different drugs than Parkia.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
There may be issues that Mary are overrepresented in some
health issues such as diabetes, a whole range of different
health outcomes that lens needs to be put over. What
are the Malori health issues alongside of all other issues,
and say is this group being looked after in the
way that they need to be and what is the
(09:07):
cost overall to the taxpayer? Because usually, and this is
what gets megaback cross David Semore seems to think that
it's preferential treatment or that we're circling out a group
and saying that these guys need more help than others.
That's not the case at all. We want all New
Zealanders to do well, and it's making sure that we
fully take that into account and give everybody the same opportunities.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Mike, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Oh? Look, I'd just come back to the basic premise.
If the aim is to base everything on actual need,
those that are in need will get to get the
drugs that they need, simple as that.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Now, it doesn't work that way though, we had a
Malori Health Authority because for over one hundred years, Maori
have had poorer health outcomes compared to other New Zealanders
under the health system we've provided, they do worse, they
cost us more, they die earlier, So the system we
had wasn't working. If you have a system that looks
at the specific needs of maldi, then overall the tech
(10:06):
player pays left.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Mike, She's right. I mean the stats don't lie for
our health. No, that's right.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
But I think I'll come back again to Nick. Don't
need his need And if we base our health interventions
on need need first and foremost, those that are in
need of said services should should receive them.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Mike, I want to start with you this The Darling
Tana story still hasn't settled down. The summary of the
Green's Party's report was released yesterday, which found she had
more involvement in her husband's business than she made out.
Her interview on TV one suggests that she doesn't want
to go anywhere. Should she just resign from parliament? And
that's it.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Looks to be honest with the side show that we
don't really want to be a part of it. It
is a matter for the Green Party and it shouldn't
attract from our focus, which remains on the economy, getting
the cost of living down and getting their inflation down.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Ginny, if she doesn't resign. Would it be right for
the Greens to invoke the Walker jumping knowing that they
stand on it.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Well, she was elected as a Green Party member on
the list, so she's no longer a member of that
party she was elected, So my view is that she
should leave parliament.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
How do you think that we as New Zealanders will
react if she stays around and just hangs there for
two years?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I think it'd be really hard for her. You know,
she's got a lot of people that'll be making their
own minds up about that decision. And I think this
is part of the nuances of an MMP system when
you have list MP's and they're part of a wider brand,
like you know, the party, and if they step away from,
you know, the vehicle that got them in there, there's
an expectation, I think from New Zealanders that that's not right.
(11:46):
So I think it will be tough for her if
she thinks around as an independent.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Mike, how do you think about her? What do you
think when you think about her picking up that one
hundred and sixty eight thousand dollars just sitting in the backroom.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yeah, look, I guess Look, the Walker jumping legislation that
is there for this time pursue, but ultimately it's a
call for the Green Party.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
All right, Mike, There was a use out this week
that Congeror evictions have risen. Fourteen tenancies have been terminated
in the last three months. That compares to eight over
the whole of twenty twenty three. That comes after the
government ordered the agency to crack down be tough on
disruptive tendance. Are you pleased to see KO have taken
this directive seriously on our kicking people out?
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I think it lot. This is about provide making, giving
people the opportunity to have a choice, make a clear
choice about whether they want to be a good tenant
or not. For too long there's been disruptive tenants, and
so we do need some consequences because let's not forget this,
twenty four thousand people on the Social waiting house list,
(12:48):
more than about two thousand living in emergency hotels that
would give their bacteeth to have an opportunity to live
in a house. So it is about having some consequences.
And I don't think that's unacceptable, that that's what's the
word I'm looking for. I don't think that's a bit
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Ginny, I bet you don't think that's a bad thing.
I think you'd think that. You wouldn't think it's a
good thing. You'd think it's a bad thing for people
to be chucked out of their homes.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Oh, bad behavior should not be tolerated. You know, as
a local MP, I had to deal with family who
head incredibly disrespectful people living next door. They're a minority,
they're not you know, every household that there is a
small group of tenants through crying order, that are really
disruptive to their neighborhoods. And that's not acceptable. And that's
(13:37):
when we were in government. People did get evicted, and
there was also force rey locations, putting people into different places,
hopeful environments where they'd realize that if they do that again,
they will lose that home. So kind of order is
a lean lord of last resorts for most people. But
the real question I have is where do these people go?
If you've got someone with mental health issues, addiction issues,
(14:00):
which is usually the ones who cause lots of trouble,
are they on the streets. And if they're on the streets,
the people who will we're picking them up as our
police service, So you can't just kick them out and
think the problem's gone. It just gets kicked the can
down the road to something else. So there needs to
be something in place to make sure that the general
public aren't having to have to deal with people on
(14:23):
the streets, and people with children also aren't in situations
that are just not acceptable for families to be living in.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Okay, we're just wrapping up our politics Thursday with Ginny
Anderson and our national MP for the Wire Rapp and
Mike Butterrick. Mike, I want to start with you on
this one. The government's just released its abmission reduction plan
this week and it's now clear we won't meet the
third emission's budget. As a result, the government wants to
plant a lot more trees to get through and they're
(14:52):
hoping for technology advances to help us reduce emission. What's
changing under national with this plan compared to the last government.
What's made it look not so favorable?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Well, I think I would just make the ca I
mean that's you know, the whether we where it says
that we may not meet targets by said data. I
mean that is we've got to be cognizant that those
projections they are a snapshot in time and they're not
certain or absolute. That would be the first point I
would make. For example, I mean that we price changes
in technology will continue to evolve and develop, which will
(15:28):
shift those outcomes in the future, and shifts in the
economy will occur. So but we've been you know, we've
taken approach. It's a least cost net based approach. But
what we will not accept as shutting down productive sectors
of the economy. And I take our food and fiber
sector for example, and to put a bit of context
around that, there's three hundred and sixty thousand people employed
(15:50):
in New Zealand. One in six New Zealanders work in
our food and fiber sector, and it is eighty but
over eighty percent of our export income. That's how we
pay our bills. We are very clear that we will
not shut down productive sectors of the economy because it's
vitally important to be able to grow our economy. And
we make no excuses about using a technology lead approach
(16:13):
to allow that production to continue as emissions come down.
Because technology has evolved extremely quickly. If we think back
to ev cars and the like, I mean, they weren't
to think ten twenty years ago they are now that
technology is getting better and better and better.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Ginny, is this just reality or as a government got
this completely wrong?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
It's an absolute fairy tale. If you think you're waiting
for some sort of godmother fairy godmother to drop out
of the sky wave their wand and invent some technology
that that's going to save everybody from having to reduce emissions,
then they're just absolutely dreaming. And Mike will know from
being a farmer in Canterbury what happened now. There are
rivers in Canterburry that oaths to swim in when I
was a child that you can walk across now and
(16:56):
the water doesn't come up to your knees. When that
water is that low and farming emissions go into the water,
it becomes more polluted and people can't swim in it.
If we don't make real changes to the way we
do things, then we will not have an economic base
to be able to promote internationally and make money off.
So it's preserving our future economy by treating it well
(17:18):
and just hoping for some American invention is an absolute joke.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Look, sorry, I've got to just post that on that
a little bit. Emissions do not run down into the water.
Emissions actually go up in the atmosphere because we're talking
about carbon and methane and nitrous oxide emission.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
But it's also about present environment. It's part of the
same deal. It's part of the same deal. It's how
we treat our natural environment and how we reduce emissions.
It's part of how we look after what we've been
given to make sure it sustained us into the future.
And it's just irresponsible and selfish to milk everything as
much as we can right now for this generation at
the expense of that for our children and grandchildren.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
No lot, and we will not accept shutting down productive
parts of the economy and allowing that.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Production economy you're viewing it making.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
The mission's profile for a unit of production are actually high,
so the net impact on our global emissions is negative.
That is not.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Missing the target. We've completely missed the target by twenty
thirty five, we're out of it because of your government.
We've missed it.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
No, no, that's not the case, because, as I said earlier,
those model projections there are snapshot in time. Technology has
and will continue to be introduced, and you're.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Banking on a miracle invention to be able to make
a twenty thirty five target because you've emitted so much more.
You know, you talk about e cars. The E cars
have decreased by about fifty percent purchasing in New Zealand
since your government came into power because you took away
the clean card discount.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Look the UK tax as we call it, that was
effectively farmers and tradees having to pay about seven thousand.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Decrease in New Zealanders purchasing e cars because of what
you did.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
It was a Robin Hood's scheme. And of course the
economy in its current state has got a lot of
is accountable for a lot of that reduction in demand
for those evs. But fundamentally, look, if we want to
transition to a low energy economy, we have to get
some infrastructure plans in place, and that is about renewable energy.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Right. I want to move on because I want to
ask you one something we don't normally talk about on
our politics now, but we don't normally go into American politics,
but I feel that we need to ask a couple
of little quick questions really quickly I know you both
got to go the assassination attempt on Donald Trump over
the weekend. Mike, what was your reaction when you first
(19:38):
heard this?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Oh, look, I think it's appalling as simple as that.
No political leader, leader anywhere in the world, you ever
have to put up with a threat of violence anywhere.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Jenny, We've talked about this you before, because when you
were a police minister, I've always had a real concern
for the safety around politicians in New Zealand. Has this
changed anything.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
For you, No, it hasn't changed anything for me. But
it's really worrying you. You know that there's violence much
much more prevalent in politics, and it makes it harder
for democracy, and it is concerning on what it actually
means for democracy in America as well. I mean, it
was a semi automatic weapon that was used by the shooter,
(20:21):
and it's a real concern about those weapons being so
available and I wouldn't want that to happen in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Mike, Are you concerned? Do you get concerned about your
colleagues and yourself in safety?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
No, lot, I've had no specific anything that's caused concern
to me. But I just think Fundamentally, we've got to agree,
to be able to disagree in an agreeable way if
you like. Ultimately we're all neighbors. I think myself personally,
I've had no issues. I don't hear that there's an
(20:56):
elevation and concern, but look, I think fundamentally there's no
way that we should ever condone violence of any sort.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Thank you both very much for coming on the show.
Jenny Anderson obviously a Labors Police Police spokesperson, local MP
and national MP for the wire Wrapper, Mike Butterick, Nice
to meet you, Mike. Thanks for coming on the show.
Talk soon, all right, Jenny.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, Listen live
to news Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talk said
Blatzi Shan.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Can you make a right decision for all of us,
for all of the joining us this morning for politics
Thursday is Labor Police spokesperson Jenny Anderson. Good morning, Joennny,
Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm good, thank you. I had a good recess week
doing nothing, hanging out. What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I flew back from China yesterday, so a little bit
we but hazy after a long time in the year.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
What were you doing in China? Can I ask? Was
that being rude?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I was on on my first private my own travel
since I've been an MP. Actually I've visited my brother
and his newborn son who lives in Sujo to Estatis, Shanghai.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Oh beautiful. I hope everything's good. That's great. National MP
for the wire Rapper Mike Butterick, Mike, good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
And welcome, Good morning, Nook and morning Jenny, Good morning, Mike.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Now, Mike, our listeners won't know a lot about you,
so give us a one sentence describing Mike butter.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
It one sentence. Hello, a chef and beef farmer, but
a husband and a father of four, if I must
say so myself, are pretty great kids.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Great. So you're a farmer boy from the Wire Rapper.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah, MC Cannerbury leader originally and I've been up here
since nineteen ninety.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Ah. There you go, Canterbury farmer living in the wire Rapper.
That's what. That's all we need to know, Jinny, isn't
it Well?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Both originally from Canterbury, So there you go. Something in
common already.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh you had a good rugby team. You both had
a good rugby team. And is she anyway? Let's start
with inflation. Figure out yesterday inflation to the year June
is down three point three percent to three point three percent.
We're getting closer and closer to the reserves being target
of one to three percent. Mike, let's start with you.
National is obviously pretty damn excited about this on social
media yesterday. How much credit can you as a government
(02:10):
take for this?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
I think this Certainly government has contributed to the cost,
the inflationary cost neck but I think it is great news.
It shows that we're heading in the right direction. But
I would also comment that we've got to make sure
we don't lose focus because embedded in amongst that inflation,
it's a pretty stubborn domestic component, you know. So we've
(02:34):
got to remain discipline with our spending and just keep
our own the price.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Jinny, what do you think? I mean, the difficulty we've
got is we can't get the rates down and we
can't get the insurance down. So we're still going to
fight for this, aren't we.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
It is.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I mean, if you talk to people on the street,
they're not seeing that yet, so it's good it's hitting
in the right direction. But people who are paying at
the checkout doi'll feel that hurts. Rent and mortgages are
the biggest ones, and it is a concern with the
government policy. Instead of being able to catch chenance out
with no real requirements, fewer restrictions on landlords who want
to keep putting rents up and even scrapping the first
(03:11):
home grant, it does mean that it still makes that
housing area really trusted to New Zealanders.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Mike, do you want to yeah, I mean I think
that's a little bit rich. I mean, in the last
government administration, rents went up an average of one hundred
and eighty dollars a week. So look in terms of
all the complexities that feed into that housing stuff, it
is complex. It hasn't been something that's eventuated in the
last little while that we've had a housing issue for
(03:38):
a number of years, if not decades, and so there
are certainly some challenges, but you know, we're addressing some
of those some of those problems head on with Ministers
Bishop and Pink and it'll be some of all parts
of a lot of things. It's about freeing up land
for housing because certainly there's been the restriction of that
has added to the cost of buying houses or building houses.
(04:00):
It's about the consenting charges, which we will have to
talk about that have edited cost. It's about getting some
competition into the market, about allowing approved you know, products
that approved in other countries into the market. So it'll
be some of all parts that can help alleviate some
of those housing press Judie.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
How important is that we get to the rate cut
down soon, because I mean, you'll be knowing it. We're
doing it tough, aren't we.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
They're really doing it tough. You know, I was talking
to someone in the hut they've got a three bedroom
house and they pay seven hundred and fifty a week,
and that's in the Hut Valley, and that's due to
go up shortly, and they're really concerned that. You know,
if it's fifty dollars and it's eight hundred dollars a
week and you're taking home maybe twelve hundred, if you know,
there's no money left for food and for extra things
(04:48):
for kids. So that big component out of your wages
that's going to rent or to mortgage repayments leaves families
with very little to be able to do those extra things.
And we see that in Wellington with people not eating
out in restaurants, clothing.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
How important is it to you, Mike that we actually
get that rite down interest look at.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Is critically important because that is the fundamentally that is
the number one issue were concern for New Zealanders at
the moment. It's just the general cost of living and
I think, look it is, so we're absolutely focused on
getting that down. And of course when we get it
down at what it will do is provide some confidence.
And confidence is a wonderful thing because confidence allows people
(05:28):
to actually think ahead, think about their investment opportunities and
how they can grow themselves and look at those opportunities.
So it is critically important, Jenny.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Do you think people are confident at the moment.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I don't think they are. I think it has been
an incredibly uncertain time. Yes, we're looking at those more
good rates and they're looking like they could come down,
but it really depends on what the individual circumstances of
people are. Those people who fixed the rate, you know,
and it was they only just came off it maybe
three or four months ago. They really felt the bite,
and I think that's where we saw the economy really stagnating,
(06:04):
as people on sixth rates that had a good four
dable rate came off those rates and that has flowed
off into rent hikes and people having less money in
their pocket each week. So let's not forget that even
when those rates come down, it takes a while for
that to filter down into people's.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Pockets, Jenny. Earlier this week, David Seymour revealed he's directed
FARMAC to stop considering the treaty and its decisions, saying
farmacs have been making decisions on what drugs to buy
for all New Zealanders in mind. Why did Labour come
out against this move.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
That was the reference to removing the treaty and that
letter of intent. This is the same government that in
the same day reinstated got rid of smoke free and
got rid of the Malori Health Authority. What David Cymour
and this government don't realize is that better our health
outcomes for Maudi makes the tax bill smaller in the country,
(06:57):
better for all New Zealanders. So the fact that Mardi
have poor health statistics, it's better for taxpayers and it's
better for our population if we make sure we improve
Maori health outcomes. So grand standing on taking the treaty
out of Pharmac and not giving consideration to our obligations
under the treaty looks tough for him to a certain
(07:19):
group of voters, but it doesn't do anything long term
to improving New Zealand's health outcomes.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Mike, what does considering the treaty have to do with
buying drugs for everyone?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
A lot?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
To be honest, Nick, I think we need to think
about the Statute of pharmac statutory responsibility, which is fundamentally
to deliver improve health comes based on data and evidence
and based on needs and Sorry, why can't you do.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
That alongside of the treaty? You can do both, It's possible.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Jinny, can you just explain to me? Can you just
explain to me, because I you know, I did the
story last this week, and can you just explain to
me what the treaty has got to do with FARMI.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, it's about equity. So everyone's not starting from the
same starting point. You've got some people starting fifty meters
behind the starting line, and what if those people starting
in a detrimental in a backward position. How much are
they costing? What are the drugs that are needing them?
So taking that into account, saying this group of people
who require this group of drug, if not funded, will
(08:22):
costs the taxpayer x million in their lifeline and the
whole of their life. Let's wagh that up and look
at the overall healthcomes of funding people. And maybe there
are some obligations under the treaty that would make better
health outcomes for all New Zealanders and that needs to
be taken into account with assessing what drugs to buy.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So I'm a little bit confused here. So you're saying
that Marie would take different drugs than Parkia.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
There may be issues that Mary are overrepresented in some
health issues such as diabetes, a whole range of different
health outcomes that lens needs to be put over. What
are the Malori health issues alongside of all other issues,
and say is this group being looked after in the
way that they need to be and what is the
(09:07):
cost overall to the taxpayer? Because usually, and this is
what gets megaback cross David Semore seems to think that
it's preferential treatment or that we're circling out a group
and saying that these guys need more help than others.
That's not the case at all. We want all New
Zealanders to do well, and it's making sure that we
fully take that into account and give everybody the same opportunities.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Mike, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Oh? Look, I'd just come back to the basic premise.
If the aim is to base everything on actual need,
those that are in need will get to get the
drugs that they need, simple as that.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Now, it doesn't work that way though, we had a
Malori Health Authority because for over one hundred years, Maori
have had poorer health outcomes compared to other New Zealanders
under the health system we've provided, they do worse, they
cost us more, they die earlier, So the system we
had wasn't working. If you have a system that looks
at the specific needs of maldi, then overall the tech
(10:06):
player pays left.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Mike, She's right. I mean the stats don't lie for
our health. No, that's right.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
But I think I'll come back again to Nick. Don't
need his need And if we base our health interventions
on need need first and foremost, those that are in
need of said services should should receive them.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Mike, I want to start with you this The Darling
Tana story still hasn't settled down. The summary of the
Green's Party's report was released yesterday, which found she had
more involvement in her husband's business than she made out.
Her interview on TV one suggests that she doesn't want
to go anywhere. Should she just resign from parliament? And
that's it.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Looks to be honest with the side show that we
don't really want to be a part of it. It
is a matter for the Green Party and it shouldn't
attract from our focus, which remains on the economy, getting
the cost of living down and getting their inflation down.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Ginny, if she doesn't resign. Would it be right for
the Greens to invoke the Walker jumping knowing that they
stand on it.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Well, she was elected as a Green Party member on
the list, so she's no longer a member of that
party she was elected, So my view is that she
should leave parliament.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
How do you think that we as New Zealanders will
react if she stays around and just hangs there for
two years?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I think it'd be really hard for her. You know,
she's got a lot of people that'll be making their
own minds up about that decision. And I think this
is part of the nuances of an MMP system when
you have list MP's and they're part of a wider brand,
like you know, the party, and if they step away from,
you know, the vehicle that got them in there, there's
an expectation, I think from New Zealanders that that's not right.
(11:46):
So I think it will be tough for her if
she thinks around as an independent.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Mike, how do you think about her? What do you
think when you think about her picking up that one
hundred and sixty eight thousand dollars just sitting in the backroom.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yeah, look, I guess Look, the Walker jumping legislation that
is there for this time pursue, but ultimately it's a
call for the Green Party.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
All right, Mike, There was a use out this week
that Congeror evictions have risen. Fourteen tenancies have been terminated
in the last three months. That compares to eight over
the whole of twenty twenty three. That comes after the
government ordered the agency to crack down be tough on
disruptive tendance. Are you pleased to see KO have taken
this directive seriously on our kicking people out?
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I think it lot. This is about provide making, giving
people the opportunity to have a choice, make a clear
choice about whether they want to be a good tenant
or not. For too long there's been disruptive tenants, and
so we do need some consequences because let's not forget this,
twenty four thousand people on the Social waiting house list,
(12:48):
more than about two thousand living in emergency hotels that
would give their bacteeth to have an opportunity to live
in a house. So it is about having some consequences.
And I don't think that's unacceptable, that that's what's the
word I'm looking for. I don't think that's a bit
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Ginny, I bet you don't think that's a bad thing.
I think you'd think that. You wouldn't think it's a
good thing. You'd think it's a bad thing for people
to be chucked out of their homes.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Oh, bad behavior should not be tolerated. You know, as
a local MP, I had to deal with family who
head incredibly disrespectful people living next door. They're a minority,
they're not you know, every household that there is a
small group of tenants through crying order, that are really
disruptive to their neighborhoods. And that's not acceptable. And that's
(13:37):
when we were in government. People did get evicted, and
there was also force rey locations, putting people into different places,
hopeful environments where they'd realize that if they do that again,
they will lose that home. So kind of order is
a lean lord of last resorts for most people. But
the real question I have is where do these people go?
If you've got someone with mental health issues, addiction issues,
(14:00):
which is usually the ones who cause lots of trouble,
are they on the streets. And if they're on the streets,
the people who will we're picking them up as our
police service, So you can't just kick them out and
think the problem's gone. It just gets kicked the can
down the road to something else. So there needs to
be something in place to make sure that the general
public aren't having to have to deal with people on
(14:23):
the streets, and people with children also aren't in situations
that are just not acceptable for families to be living in.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Okay, we're just wrapping up our politics Thursday with Ginny
Anderson and our national MP for the Wire Rapp and
Mike Butterrick. Mike, I want to start with you on
this one. The government's just released its abmission reduction plan
this week and it's now clear we won't meet the
third emission's budget. As a result, the government wants to
plant a lot more trees to get through and they're
(14:52):
hoping for technology advances to help us reduce emission. What's
changing under national with this plan compared to the last government.
What's made it look not so favorable?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Well, I think I would just make the ca I
mean that's you know, the whether we where it says
that we may not meet targets by said data. I
mean that is we've got to be cognizant that those
projections they are a snapshot in time and they're not
certain or absolute. That would be the first point I
would make. For example, I mean that we price changes
in technology will continue to evolve and develop, which will
(15:28):
shift those outcomes in the future, and shifts in the
economy will occur. So but we've been you know, we've
taken approach. It's a least cost net based approach. But
what we will not accept as shutting down productive sectors
of the economy. And I take our food and fiber
sector for example, and to put a bit of context
around that, there's three hundred and sixty thousand people employed
(15:50):
in New Zealand. One in six New Zealanders work in
our food and fiber sector, and it is eighty but
over eighty percent of our export income. That's how we
pay our bills. We are very clear that we will
not shut down productive sectors of the economy because it's
vitally important to be able to grow our economy. And
we make no excuses about using a technology lead approach
(16:13):
to allow that production to continue as emissions come down.
Because technology has evolved extremely quickly. If we think back
to ev cars and the like, I mean, they weren't
to think ten twenty years ago they are now that
technology is getting better and better and better.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Ginny, is this just reality or as a government got
this completely wrong?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
It's an absolute fairy tale. If you think you're waiting
for some sort of godmother fairy godmother to drop out
of the sky wave their wand and invent some technology
that that's going to save everybody from having to reduce emissions,
then they're just absolutely dreaming. And Mike will know from
being a farmer in Canterbury what happened now. There are
rivers in Canterburry that oaths to swim in when I
was a child that you can walk across now and
(16:56):
the water doesn't come up to your knees. When that
water is that low and farming emissions go into the water,
it becomes more polluted and people can't swim in it.
If we don't make real changes to the way we
do things, then we will not have an economic base
to be able to promote internationally and make money off.
So it's preserving our future economy by treating it well
(17:18):
and just hoping for some American invention is an absolute joke.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Look, sorry, I've got to just post that on that
a little bit. Emissions do not run down into the water.
Emissions actually go up in the atmosphere because we're talking
about carbon and methane and nitrous oxide emission.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
But it's also about present environment. It's part of the
same deal. It's part of the same deal. It's how
we treat our natural environment and how we reduce emissions.
It's part of how we look after what we've been
given to make sure it sustained us into the future.
And it's just irresponsible and selfish to milk everything as
much as we can right now for this generation at
the expense of that for our children and grandchildren.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
No lot, and we will not accept shutting down productive
parts of the economy and allowing that.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Production economy you're viewing it making.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
The mission's profile for a unit of production are actually high,
so the net impact on our global emissions is negative.
That is not.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Missing the target. We've completely missed the target by twenty
thirty five, we're out of it because of your government.
We've missed it.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
No, no, that's not the case, because, as I said earlier,
those model projections there are snapshot in time. Technology has
and will continue to be introduced, and you're.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Banking on a miracle invention to be able to make
a twenty thirty five target because you've emitted so much more.
You know, you talk about e cars. The E cars
have decreased by about fifty percent purchasing in New Zealand
since your government came into power because you took away
the clean card discount.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Look the UK tax as we call it, that was
effectively farmers and tradees having to pay about seven thousand.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Decrease in New Zealanders purchasing e cars because of what
you did.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
It was a Robin Hood's scheme. And of course the
economy in its current state has got a lot of
is accountable for a lot of that reduction in demand
for those evs. But fundamentally, look, if we want to
transition to a low energy economy, we have to get
some infrastructure plans in place, and that is about renewable energy.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Right. I want to move on because I want to
ask you one something we don't normally talk about on
our politics now, but we don't normally go into American politics,
but I feel that we need to ask a couple
of little quick questions really quickly I know you both
got to go the assassination attempt on Donald Trump over
the weekend. Mike, what was your reaction when you first
(19:38):
heard this?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Oh, look, I think it's appalling as simple as that.
No political leader, leader anywhere in the world, you ever
have to put up with a threat of violence anywhere.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Jenny, We've talked about this you before, because when you
were a police minister, I've always had a real concern
for the safety around politicians in New Zealand. Has this
changed anything.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
For you, No, it hasn't changed anything for me. But
it's really worrying you. You know that there's violence much
much more prevalent in politics, and it makes it harder
for democracy, and it is concerning on what it actually
means for democracy in America as well. I mean, it
was a semi automatic weapon that was used by the shooter,
(20:21):
and it's a real concern about those weapons being so
available and I wouldn't want that to happen in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Mike, Are you concerned? Do you get concerned about your
colleagues and yourself in safety?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
No, lot, I've had no specific anything that's caused concern
to me. But I just think Fundamentally, we've got to agree,
to be able to disagree in an agreeable way if
you like. Ultimately we're all neighbors. I think myself personally,
I've had no issues. I don't hear that there's an
(20:56):
elevation and concern, but look, I think fundamentally there's no
way that we should ever condone violence of any sort.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Thank you both very much for coming on the show.
Jenny Anderson obviously a Labors Police Police spokesperson, local MP
and national MP for the wire Wrapper, Mike Butterick, Nice
to meet you, Mike. Thanks for coming on the show.
Talk soon, all right, Jenny.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, Listen live
to news Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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