The year in politics has begun with a bang, with Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announcing a cabinet reshuffle that sees two big portfolios, health and transport, handed to new Ministers.
But how will the new Ministers perform in their new jobs, and what did Shane Reti and Melissa Lee do wrong to lose their biggest responsibilities?
Also, Donald Trump has been sworn in as the 47th President of the United States. What impact will his policies have on New Zealand and the world?
To answer those questions, Rongotai MP and Green transport spokeswoman Julie Anne Genter and National's Wairarapa MP Mike Butterick joined Nick Mills for Politics Thursday.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at b focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, News Talks at Bilan.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Can you make your decision?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Lovers?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Welcome back, It's Politics Thursday, the first of the two
thousand and twenty five version. Joining us this morning is
wrong Attai MP and Greens Transport spokesperson Julian Genta, good morning.
We'll try that one.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Happy New Year, all right, put the wrong one.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Wat to be here, Nice to have you here. What
did you do on the holiday break? What did you
get up to?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Mostly I was at home with the family. We did
visit another part of the elector at the Chatham Islands
rayko who for their one hundred and fiftieth jubilee and
tree of their Jockey club for those those are horse
races they have after Christmas. But otherwise I've been in Ponique, Yeah,
in Rome attire Wellington.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Sure your fault. We've had all this bad weather.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Hey, it's gotten real good this week.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Yeah, I know we're all as we're back at work. Yeah.
And Nationals wire rapper MP Mike Butterick, Good morning.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
Mike, Hey, good morning, Net. Compliments of the season to
you both. Long time no speak.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Yeah, what what did you get up to on the holidays?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
B Actually we had three of the four kids home,
so in the youngest one she she's doing the building apprenticeship,
so she needs to do some money, so be here.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
Just spend a few at a time in the workshop.
Help me near. Actually, wow, good on you.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Are you quite good with your hands? We're just talking
about kids and not having not knowing what to do
and how to change light bulbs and stuff. Are you
quite handy with your hands?
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Yeah? Well I'm a farmer.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So it's a jack of all trades, master of none,
you know how it goes back?
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Yeah, I wish, I wish I could be a jack
of any trades. I know how to talk. I know
how to talk and get people into a restaurant. That's
about all are they how to do? But anyway, let's
start with the cabinet reshuffle announced on Sunday. Shane Ritty
Gone sacked as Health Minister and replaced by Simeon Brown's
mister fix at All, Melissa Lee gone fired sacked had
(02:20):
It and Nikola Willis given Economic Growth portfolio. Mike. A
lot of people are thinking this is a little bit
unfair on Shane.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Ritty Nod.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
The Prime Minister took time over as I'm sure you've heard,
time to reflect on where we're at over the Christmas break,
and you know, just made a decisions that he wanted
the right people in the right place for the particular
points in time that we're at.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So you was there talk of it happening that was
there rumors? Was there versus stuff going on? Or was
it just like bang oh Shane lost his job?
Speaker 5 (02:57):
No, certainly, no rumors that i'd heard, Nick.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
You know, we've been pretty much focused on just getting
on doing what out doing what we do.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
So no, no roomors that I've heard of.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Had he up the ball?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
No, Look, I think really fire he got fired.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
So you don't. You don't get fired if you're doing
if you if you just won your last game, you
ain't getting fired.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, but look there there are you know, the situation
has changed and at this point in time, you know,
Simey and Brownie is an outstanding, diligent minister. You know
he's done an excellent job. He's put delivery on our
on our our government's priorties, and the PM's decided that,
you know, Simeon skills are the best place for at
this point in time with the health system. But you know, look,
(03:39):
doctor Shane has you know, he's reset the culture and
healthy and said, refreshed the leadership, delivered cancer drugs. There's
a number of things that have been done, but the
PM has decided that at.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
This point in time he wants even more delivery.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So that New Zealanders can get the healthcare that they
deserve and expect.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Julia and Gender. Most times when people get fired, they
haven't performed or something's gone wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
What do you think, Well, I think the cabinet reshuffle
is really just rearranging deck chairs right on the Titanic,
as it were, which is the fundamental policy positions the
government's taking are not going to deliver better health outcomes
in the long term and certainly not deal with structural inequality.
So I don't I mean, I think it's I think
(04:27):
either the Prime Minister is vastly overestimating the abilities of
the new Health Minister who hasn't actually delivered anything but
a lot of slogans and sound bites and culture war.
I don't think it was a vote of confidence in
him in transport or energy that he got moved on,
and actually people are quite relieved in the sector because
his positions were so out of touch with the evidence
(04:48):
and reality. So look, I think ultimately the Greens know
that we need some pretty fundamental changes if we're going
to address inequality and some of the underfunding over decades
in the health sector. Also, a lot of the health
outcomes that are poor in New Zealand are due to
things outside the Health Board folio, like housing.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
And Simmy and Brown is very well respected as getting
things done, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
What has he delivered?
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Well, he's done all sorts of made all sorts of
changes on transport, isn't he We've got We've got you know,
I'm going to get a second Mount Victoria tunnel and
we're going to get second hit.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
What's happened? Wait, what has anything happened? Has it has there?
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Well, you can't do it overnight, you can't start with so.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It has anything delivered in the last year?
Speaker 4 (05:30):
But I mean, he's he's definitely got the ball rolling.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
And and what was forecast was a huge, like impossible,
unfundable program of roads that was going to cost six
billion dollars a year from the from instead of hospitals,
instead of other infrastructure that was really important.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
So do you think he'll make any difference at all,
Julian into and Health.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
No, I don't think so, And I don't think he
I mean, he is not someone who is open to evidence.
He has no background in the sector. He has no
real background in the real world outside right wing politics.
So I don't. I think it's it's going to be
a tough job for him. And I say that as
a former Associate Health Minister. I think very very very
(06:15):
hard portfolio. I think Sheen Ritty was put up to
defend really really bad policies. And he's someone who actually
had experience in the health sector, is Maori and probably
does want to deliver better outcomes for Mari. And yet
the government's policies are like dismantling the Maori Health Authority
are going to worsen the systemic disadvantages.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Why Butterick is sime and Brown going to deliver anything
in health and how quickly will he do it?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Absolutely, and of course I'm going to disagree completely with
the Julie insormation of sim Simmin is an outstanding minister,
and he does have a lot of respect for the
portfolios that he has been in charge of. And you know,
Simmy is an extreal many gets on and gets stuff done,
and you know there's a proven track record of that.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
So you know, I think we're very.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Confident s THEPM obviously is that some of them will
be able to deliver.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Can you tell us what he has delivered?
Speaker 5 (07:12):
Look in terms of lock roads of national significance.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
What road has opened? Like sorry to interrupt, just asking
like has a single road started?
Speaker 5 (07:21):
If you would be well aware you can't build a
road in five minutes.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
And some of these and some of the legislation that
we passed through will actually help enable like the pass
track built enabling some of these infrastructure, including roads, because
you know it's not very efficient when people spending hours
and hours and queues. You know, that's how we get
from adive Video's how we deliver our goods. And the
longer goods take to get from a to be, the
more they cost.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I tell you what he has delivered, price increases in
public transport for young people and families. He has delivered speed,
raw changes that will result as the top trauma surgeon said,
in more people dying and huge costs on the health system.
So yeah, he has delivered some things and it'll be
interesting to see him deal with the consequences of those
(08:07):
changes as health minister.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
He's also delivered an increased the expectation around drunk and
drink tasting, and those are the things that will make
a material difference and help to teach people as well.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, that's not what the health experts say. But yeah,
I you know, he's very good at slogans and appearing
like he's doing something and appealing to a very kind
of radical base that don't understand the benefits of a
balanced transports.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Julia and genter will you I won't, actually, I won't
put those words in your mouth. I'm going to ask you,
Marke Mitchell as ethnic Communities portfolio, do you reckon he's
the right guy for that job.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I do think that was an interesting move. He's you know,
not probably the person like you know, I think that
some people in those communities have expressed disappointment about the change.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Look but ultimately, well you think, you think and what
you're thinking, and I'm putting words in your mouth. An
old white guy can't be the minister of ethnic communities
or look after a portfolio with those.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
That's not what I'm saying at all. But what I
do think is they've lost their only Asian New Zealand minister,
and so you are a huge proportion of the country,
you know, like it's quite a significant community in New Zealand.
So I think there's probably some disappointment from that side
of it. But obviously, as I said before, it's like
putting new people in charge doesn't address the fundamental lack
(09:40):
of policy that's going to deliver a better in New Zealand,
one where people are really thriving, where we're protecting nature,
where we're taking action on climate, where we have an
economy that actually uplifts people rather than just enriching a few.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Mike, does this actually tell people in New Zealand, the
whole all of different ethnic groups in New Zealand that
you have a problem in national that you have to
put And I like Mark Mitchell, really like him. I
think he's an amazing police minister and I think he's
a really good guy when I've met him. But doesn't
that send a big signal out to New Zealand that
we've got nobody that's ethnically strong enough to look after
(10:16):
the ethnic community apart from an older white guy.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
No, that's that incorrect.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
I mean, look, that's correct, fact correct.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
And Marks he is an exceptional individual.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
But Mark has got a very wealthy lived experience.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Marks operated in multiple countries all around the world and
engage with all different ethnicities. We also have a number
of MPs within the government of different ethnic backgrounds, so
you know, we celebrate our ethnic diversity and Mark will
be we'll do a fantastic job in that role.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Well, we'll wait and see politics Thursday. Julian Genta from
where would you say she's from? Wrong Atai? Of course
she's from Romatai and Nationals wirerapper MP Mike Butterick join us.
Let's talk about the taxpayer Union Caurier poll that came
out last week. Labor as head of national for the
first time in two years. Labors on thirty two point
nine percent, Nationals on twenty nine point six percent, Greens
(11:13):
are at nine point five percent, Acted down to two
down two percent down to two percent, and to party
Maori on five percent. Julianne, this is a good result
for the left.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I think. Look, every poll is just one poll.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
But I think the significant thing is that the change
in people's perception of the right direction wrong direction, and
a clear majority of people feel the country's going in
the wrong direction. I think this is a result of
government actions, particularly those driven by the coalition partners, who
are pushing some really unpopulous stuff like you know, the
(11:50):
handouts to tobacco companies, the kind of devisive approach you're
trying to rewrite. Yeah, there's a lot that I think
doesn't resonate with New Zealander's values and what New Zealanders
do want and feel proud of is when we are
doing the right thing by nature, by people.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Yeah. I don't disagree that doing the right thing by
people and nature. Mike, this is the lowest pole result
for national and government in government since Jenny Shipley was
Prime Minister more than twenty years ago. What the hell
is going wrong?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I didn't know that, But look poles that I mean,
they move around all the time, and I think what
you've probably seen in that pole, it's just reflection on
the pressure that Kiwis have been under and it's you know,
from the from the recession and lot that was created
by the previous government's financial mis management.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
But you can't get your way out of a recession
and a heartbeat.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
But don't you think people want more? Do you think
we want more? Mike, I mean we're not not We're
not getting as much as we need.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Look, I think we've laid the foundations.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Our focus this year is going to be on economic growth,
but we had laid the focus for that. But ultimately
there's two poles that met. You know, we had one
twenty three that was an election because people New Zealand
does want to change. Will be another one in twenty six.
You know, we were hected to deliver that part change
with positive change and they focus that's very much this
(13:19):
year now on economic growth and we've laid the foundations
last year in twenty four and really looking forward to
delivering on that growth and thriving in twenty five. In
beyond that, if.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
You're seeing growth, you're seeing a lot of businesses closed down,
You're seeing a lot of things still not working. So
growth is not I mean, as Julianne said, it's actually
just making comments doesn't actually change anything. Having slogans doesn't
change anything. Juliane, how is Chloe Fahbrook's plan of overtaking
labor going.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Well, look, I mean the Greens are very focused i think,
not so much on where we stand relative to other parties,
but building a movement that really addresses the challenges that
we're all facing at this point in time. And there's
a better way to do things and we're not. You know,
obviously the last few decades governments haven't delivered everything that
(14:13):
we need to have people thriving, and there's opportunities to
do things better. I think New Zealand's a great place
and there's some few things that if we did differently,
we'd be even better off. But the current government isn't
doing those things because they're focused on when they say
economic growth, it's really about what is good for a
few big businesses, you know, mining and some environmentally destructive
(14:38):
industries that ultimately don't create that many jobs. You know,
there's other ways to have a thriving economy. While well
we didn't have a nature to.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Be fear, we didn't have a thriving economy under the
previous government and so you know.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It was doing a lot better, you know, like it
definitely was doing a lot better. And while the current
government of course blames the previous government for the recession.
The reality is that they're cutbacks and their cancelation of
projects like the Fairies project, like the State House build
really has affected the country, particularly in Wellington.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Okay, let's talk about global politics because the big story
of the week. Really we've got to and I'm really
interested to hear your thoughts on this. Julien Donald Trump
has been sworn in as a US president and already
signed tens of tens of executive orders and caused lots
of controversy by pardoning this January sixth protest is, how
do you think Julian Trump's presidency will impact on New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Well, I think, unfortunately, what the US does does affect
everyone in the world, and it's a time where New
Zealand's going to have to take an even bigger leadership
rule when it comes to climate action, when it comes
to global policy and peace. I think having an independent
foreign policy is really really important for New Zealanders. I'd
(15:57):
say a lot of people in the United States that
I know are extremely concerned about both the contents of
this inauguration speed and the clear influence of a small
number of tech billionaires Brolygarchy what brolygarchy. You know, oliergarchy
(16:19):
is when like a small group of wealthy people are
in control of the government, as in Russia. I can
see the US going that direction, but it's the Braley garchy.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Wow, Mike, Donald Trump, good for the world, good for
New Zealand. What are you thinking?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Oh? Look, America as a pretty significant trading partner of ours.
I mean, you know, in the friends, they're allies. Look,
you know, the American people are elected the president and
you know, we're looking forward to working really constructively with them.
And I'm sure the Prime Minister and Tom mcclady and
you know he'll be out there knocking down, knocking on
doors and saying hello and building, you know, furthering those relationships.
(16:58):
But they are very important to our success as a country.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
There was an interesting story yesterday in the Herald that
the minimum wage rising by one point five in April.
But it turns out that the official advice said it
could go up by two percent, and MB said that
would not lead to any further job losses. Juliander Julianne,
Is that right then? A minimum wage isn't keeping up
(17:24):
with inflation?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, I mean, clearly the minimum wage is not keeping
up with inflation and the cost of living, particularly when
inflation's at two point two. Rents are over four percent
and a lot of people on minimum wage are renters.
Some people are spending more than forty percent of their
income on their housing costs through rent. And yeah, I
think we like it's it's kind of an ideological position
(17:48):
to drag your heels on minimum wage, but if we
want a thriving society, we actually people who work full
time need to be able to make it ends meet,
and that's why things like the living wage are so important.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Mike, the advice was pretty clear. You could have gone
up more more. Why didn't you?
Speaker 5 (18:04):
I look, I think there's all ways a range of
advice from a.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Number of people, but it's the New Zealand First National
Coalition commitment to moderate those increases to the minimum wage.
And but you know, I got to remember the New
Zealand economy still recovering from high interest in recessionary conditions,
and so it's about getting that right balance between supporting
workers but also and limiting those those extra costs on
(18:31):
businesses that have been on their knees.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Have either of you, I'll come to you first Julienne
ever worked for minimum wage?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, heapes and minimum wage jobs in mainly
in the States. When I was, you know, like a teenager,
and minimum wage was extremely low that.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
It was about seven dollars or something.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Oh god, I think it was like five dollars. But
you know, I was living at home mostly. I mean
when I was at eighteen, I worked for minimum wage,
but I got tips at you know, like as a waitress.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
I can't imagine you as a waitress.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
I was good.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I loved waitressing the rest Mike, have you ever worked
for minimum wage?
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Yeah? Well, I was just having a bit of a
chuckle there.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
I'm a self employed farmer, and I've probably been the
most overworked and underpaid person in my business for all of.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
My farming career.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Certainly wouldn't have ever got paid the minimum waves, probably
substantially less if you divided.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
The income by the hour's work.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
So yeah, Okay, I want to finish the show by asking,
because it's the first show back, I want to ask
you both. I'll start with you, Mike, what are your
hopes for twenty twenty five? What do you want to
be sitting here talking about next year? The same time
the first show next year, saying wow, we got this right,
we got that right, we needed to do this.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah, yeah, very good question, Nick. Would I would hope
that we're going to see improved economic conditions, which will
I would like to see that businesses are going to
get up off the cambis and see that there's a
future in the business that they've got and feel confident
in the regulations that we heab and that you know,
(20:09):
the kiwis actually can start to enjoin and join the
opportunities that we'll be able to provide for them. That's
that's really my favent hope.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
On a quick yes or no answer, do you think
that you're actually doing is enough enough to help small
businesses in New Zealand try and get off the campus?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Absolutely, I would say no, very very very quickly, would
say no. I would say that you're doing everything you
possibly can is to prevent those small businesses that have
really worked that hard to survive to keep going. You're
going to knock them over on their feet. And I'm
speaking from personal experience. Julian Genter, what do you want
to see well this time next.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Year, Obviously we'd like to see progress on climate change,
on infrastructure, on housing, like here in Wellington, I feel
like our focus what I can control, as with my
colleague Timotha Pole, will be really focused on helping people
who are having a hard time advocating to government, whether
(21:06):
they're in Kanga Aura housing or Tetoai Mahana council flats
or in private rentals. And we'll be advocating for sensible
approaches to transport infrastructure that actually help us address the
environmental challenges because like I know, a lot of people
were in Los Angeles with those fires, like that could
become the new normal. That sort of thing can happen
(21:28):
here if we don't take action on climate change, and
the steps that we need to take can actually lower
people's costs as well investing in renewable electricity.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Having try, I mean I can.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
We don't have high hopes for the government doing a lot,
but I do hope that in transport we get a
more sensible policy under the new minister christ Bishop, and
I think that's possible.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
You made to support the perfect Yeah right, Thank you
very much both of you. I know that you've got
very busy schedules and I appreciate you taking time out
to come into the studio, Julian Jina and Mike Butterick.
Thank you for your time. How do have a really
good start of the new year. Let's be positive. I'm
trying to be positive.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Yeah, drive and thrive in twenty five.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
No, so thrive in twenty five yep. Oh my god.
If you only knew my backstory, you wouldn't be saying that.
Twenty eight minutes to twelve. Thank you very much, Mike
Butterick and Julian Jinter.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine to am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at b focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, News Talks at Bilan.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Can you make your decision?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Lovers?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Welcome back, It's Politics Thursday, the first of the two
thousand and twenty five version. Joining us this morning is
wrong Attai MP and Greens Transport spokesperson Julian Genta, good morning.
We'll try that one.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Happy New Year, all right, put the wrong one.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Wat to be here, Nice to have you here. What
did you do on the holiday break? What did you
get up to?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Mostly I was at home with the family. We did
visit another part of the elector at the Chatham Islands
rayko who for their one hundred and fiftieth jubilee and
tree of their Jockey club for those those are horse
races they have after Christmas. But otherwise I've been in Ponique, Yeah,
in Rome attire Wellington.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Sure your fault. We've had all this bad weather.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Hey, it's gotten real good this week.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Yeah, I know we're all as we're back at work. Yeah.
And Nationals wire rapper MP Mike Butterick, Good morning.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
Mike, Hey, good morning, Net. Compliments of the season to
you both. Long time no speak.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Yeah, what what did you get up to on the holidays?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
B Actually we had three of the four kids home,
so in the youngest one she she's doing the building apprenticeship,
so she needs to do some money, so be here.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
Just spend a few at a time in the workshop.
Help me near. Actually, wow, good on you.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Are you quite good with your hands? We're just talking
about kids and not having not knowing what to do
and how to change light bulbs and stuff. Are you
quite handy with your hands?
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Yeah? Well I'm a farmer.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So it's a jack of all trades, master of none,
you know how it goes back?
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Yeah, I wish, I wish I could be a jack
of any trades. I know how to talk. I know
how to talk and get people into a restaurant. That's
about all are they how to do? But anyway, let's
start with the cabinet reshuffle announced on Sunday. Shane Ritty
Gone sacked as Health Minister and replaced by Simeon Brown's
mister fix at All, Melissa Lee gone fired sacked had
(02:20):
It and Nikola Willis given Economic Growth portfolio. Mike. A
lot of people are thinking this is a little bit
unfair on Shane.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Ritty Nod.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
The Prime Minister took time over as I'm sure you've heard,
time to reflect on where we're at over the Christmas break,
and you know, just made a decisions that he wanted
the right people in the right place for the particular
points in time that we're at.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So you was there talk of it happening that was
there rumors? Was there versus stuff going on? Or was
it just like bang oh Shane lost his job?
Speaker 5 (02:57):
No, certainly, no rumors that i'd heard, Nick.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
You know, we've been pretty much focused on just getting
on doing what out doing what we do.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
So no, no roomors that I've heard of.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Had he up the ball?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
No, Look, I think really fire he got fired.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
So you don't. You don't get fired if you're doing
if you if you just won your last game, you
ain't getting fired.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, but look there there are you know, the situation
has changed and at this point in time, you know,
Simey and Brownie is an outstanding, diligent minister. You know
he's done an excellent job. He's put delivery on our
on our our government's priorties, and the PM's decided that,
you know, Simeon skills are the best place for at
this point in time with the health system. But you know, look,
(03:39):
doctor Shane has you know, he's reset the culture and
healthy and said, refreshed the leadership, delivered cancer drugs. There's
a number of things that have been done, but the
PM has decided that at.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
This point in time he wants even more delivery.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So that New Zealanders can get the healthcare that they
deserve and expect.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Julia and Gender. Most times when people get fired, they
haven't performed or something's gone wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
What do you think, Well, I think the cabinet reshuffle
is really just rearranging deck chairs right on the Titanic,
as it were, which is the fundamental policy positions the
government's taking are not going to deliver better health outcomes
in the long term and certainly not deal with structural inequality.
So I don't I mean, I think it's I think
(04:27):
either the Prime Minister is vastly overestimating the abilities of
the new Health Minister who hasn't actually delivered anything but
a lot of slogans and sound bites and culture war.
I don't think it was a vote of confidence in
him in transport or energy that he got moved on,
and actually people are quite relieved in the sector because
his positions were so out of touch with the evidence
(04:48):
and reality. So look, I think ultimately the Greens know
that we need some pretty fundamental changes if we're going
to address inequality and some of the underfunding over decades
in the health sector. Also, a lot of the health
outcomes that are poor in New Zealand are due to
things outside the Health Board folio, like housing.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
And Simmy and Brown is very well respected as getting
things done, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
What has he delivered?
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Well, he's done all sorts of made all sorts of
changes on transport, isn't he We've got We've got you know,
I'm going to get a second Mount Victoria tunnel and
we're going to get second hit.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
What's happened? Wait, what has anything happened? Has it has there?
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Well, you can't do it overnight, you can't start with so.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It has anything delivered in the last year?
Speaker 4 (05:30):
But I mean, he's he's definitely got the ball rolling.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
And and what was forecast was a huge, like impossible,
unfundable program of roads that was going to cost six
billion dollars a year from the from instead of hospitals,
instead of other infrastructure that was really important.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
So do you think he'll make any difference at all,
Julian into and Health.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
No, I don't think so, And I don't think he
I mean, he is not someone who is open to evidence.
He has no background in the sector. He has no
real background in the real world outside right wing politics.
So I don't. I think it's it's going to be
a tough job for him. And I say that as
a former Associate Health Minister. I think very very very
(06:15):
hard portfolio. I think Sheen Ritty was put up to
defend really really bad policies. And he's someone who actually
had experience in the health sector, is Maori and probably
does want to deliver better outcomes for Mari. And yet
the government's policies are like dismantling the Maori Health Authority
are going to worsen the systemic disadvantages.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Why Butterick is sime and Brown going to deliver anything
in health and how quickly will he do it?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Absolutely, and of course I'm going to disagree completely with
the Julie insormation of sim Simmin is an outstanding minister,
and he does have a lot of respect for the
portfolios that he has been in charge of. And you know,
Simmy is an extreal many gets on and gets stuff done,
and you know there's a proven track record of that.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
So you know, I think we're very.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Confident s THEPM obviously is that some of them will
be able to deliver.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Can you tell us what he has delivered?
Speaker 5 (07:12):
Look in terms of lock roads of national significance.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
What road has opened? Like sorry to interrupt, just asking
like has a single road started?
Speaker 5 (07:21):
If you would be well aware you can't build a
road in five minutes.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
And some of these and some of the legislation that
we passed through will actually help enable like the pass
track built enabling some of these infrastructure, including roads, because
you know it's not very efficient when people spending hours
and hours and queues. You know, that's how we get
from adive Video's how we deliver our goods. And the
longer goods take to get from a to be, the
more they cost.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I tell you what he has delivered, price increases in
public transport for young people and families. He has delivered speed,
raw changes that will result as the top trauma surgeon said,
in more people dying and huge costs on the health system.
So yeah, he has delivered some things and it'll be
interesting to see him deal with the consequences of those
(08:07):
changes as health minister.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
He's also delivered an increased the expectation around drunk and
drink tasting, and those are the things that will make
a material difference and help to teach people as well.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, that's not what the health experts say. But yeah,
I you know, he's very good at slogans and appearing
like he's doing something and appealing to a very kind
of radical base that don't understand the benefits of a
balanced transports.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Julia and genter will you I won't, actually, I won't
put those words in your mouth. I'm going to ask you,
Marke Mitchell as ethnic Communities portfolio, do you reckon he's
the right guy for that job.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I do think that was an interesting move. He's you know,
not probably the person like you know, I think that
some people in those communities have expressed disappointment about the change.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Look but ultimately, well you think, you think and what
you're thinking, and I'm putting words in your mouth. An
old white guy can't be the minister of ethnic communities
or look after a portfolio with those.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
That's not what I'm saying at all. But what I
do think is they've lost their only Asian New Zealand minister,
and so you are a huge proportion of the country,
you know, like it's quite a significant community in New Zealand.
So I think there's probably some disappointment from that side
of it. But obviously, as I said before, it's like
putting new people in charge doesn't address the fundamental lack
(09:40):
of policy that's going to deliver a better in New Zealand,
one where people are really thriving, where we're protecting nature,
where we're taking action on climate, where we have an
economy that actually uplifts people rather than just enriching a few.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Mike, does this actually tell people in New Zealand, the
whole all of different ethnic groups in New Zealand that
you have a problem in national that you have to
put And I like Mark Mitchell, really like him. I
think he's an amazing police minister and I think he's
a really good guy when I've met him. But doesn't
that send a big signal out to New Zealand that
we've got nobody that's ethnically strong enough to look after
(10:16):
the ethnic community apart from an older white guy.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
No, that's that incorrect.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
I mean, look, that's correct, fact correct.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
And Marks he is an exceptional individual.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
But Mark has got a very wealthy lived experience.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Marks operated in multiple countries all around the world and
engage with all different ethnicities. We also have a number
of MPs within the government of different ethnic backgrounds, so
you know, we celebrate our ethnic diversity and Mark will
be we'll do a fantastic job in that role.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Well, we'll wait and see politics Thursday. Julian Genta from
where would you say she's from? Wrong Atai? Of course
she's from Romatai and Nationals wirerapper MP Mike Butterick join us.
Let's talk about the taxpayer Union Caurier poll that came
out last week. Labor as head of national for the
first time in two years. Labors on thirty two point
nine percent, Nationals on twenty nine point six percent, Greens
(11:13):
are at nine point five percent, Acted down to two
down two percent down to two percent, and to party
Maori on five percent. Julianne, this is a good result
for the left.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I think. Look, every poll is just one poll.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
But I think the significant thing is that the change
in people's perception of the right direction wrong direction, and
a clear majority of people feel the country's going in
the wrong direction. I think this is a result of
government actions, particularly those driven by the coalition partners, who
are pushing some really unpopulous stuff like you know, the
(11:50):
handouts to tobacco companies, the kind of devisive approach you're
trying to rewrite. Yeah, there's a lot that I think
doesn't resonate with New Zealander's values and what New Zealanders
do want and feel proud of is when we are
doing the right thing by nature, by people.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Yeah. I don't disagree that doing the right thing by
people and nature. Mike, this is the lowest pole result
for national and government in government since Jenny Shipley was
Prime Minister more than twenty years ago. What the hell
is going wrong?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I didn't know that, But look poles that I mean,
they move around all the time, and I think what
you've probably seen in that pole, it's just reflection on
the pressure that Kiwis have been under and it's you know,
from the from the recession and lot that was created
by the previous government's financial mis management.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
But you can't get your way out of a recession
and a heartbeat.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
But don't you think people want more? Do you think
we want more? Mike, I mean we're not not We're
not getting as much as we need.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Look, I think we've laid the foundations.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Our focus this year is going to be on economic growth,
but we had laid the focus for that. But ultimately
there's two poles that met. You know, we had one
twenty three that was an election because people New Zealand
does want to change. Will be another one in twenty six.
You know, we were hected to deliver that part change
with positive change and they focus that's very much this
(13:19):
year now on economic growth and we've laid the foundations
last year in twenty four and really looking forward to
delivering on that growth and thriving in twenty five. In
beyond that, if.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
You're seeing growth, you're seeing a lot of businesses closed down,
You're seeing a lot of things still not working. So
growth is not I mean, as Julianne said, it's actually
just making comments doesn't actually change anything. Having slogans doesn't
change anything. Juliane, how is Chloe Fahbrook's plan of overtaking
labor going.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Well, look, I mean the Greens are very focused i think,
not so much on where we stand relative to other parties,
but building a movement that really addresses the challenges that
we're all facing at this point in time. And there's
a better way to do things and we're not. You know,
obviously the last few decades governments haven't delivered everything that
(14:13):
we need to have people thriving, and there's opportunities to
do things better. I think New Zealand's a great place
and there's some few things that if we did differently,
we'd be even better off. But the current government isn't
doing those things because they're focused on when they say
economic growth, it's really about what is good for a
few big businesses, you know, mining and some environmentally destructive
(14:38):
industries that ultimately don't create that many jobs. You know,
there's other ways to have a thriving economy. While well
we didn't have a nature to.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Be fear, we didn't have a thriving economy under the
previous government and so you know.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It was doing a lot better, you know, like it
definitely was doing a lot better. And while the current
government of course blames the previous government for the recession.
The reality is that they're cutbacks and their cancelation of
projects like the Fairies project, like the State House build
really has affected the country, particularly in Wellington.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Okay, let's talk about global politics because the big story
of the week. Really we've got to and I'm really
interested to hear your thoughts on this. Julien Donald Trump
has been sworn in as a US president and already
signed tens of tens of executive orders and caused lots
of controversy by pardoning this January sixth protest is, how
do you think Julian Trump's presidency will impact on New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Well, I think, unfortunately, what the US does does affect
everyone in the world, and it's a time where New
Zealand's going to have to take an even bigger leadership
rule when it comes to climate action, when it comes
to global policy and peace. I think having an independent
foreign policy is really really important for New Zealanders. I'd
(15:57):
say a lot of people in the United States that
I know are extremely concerned about both the contents of
this inauguration speed and the clear influence of a small
number of tech billionaires Brolygarchy what brolygarchy. You know, oliergarchy
(16:19):
is when like a small group of wealthy people are
in control of the government, as in Russia. I can
see the US going that direction, but it's the Braley garchy.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Wow, Mike, Donald Trump, good for the world, good for
New Zealand. What are you thinking?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Oh? Look, America as a pretty significant trading partner of ours.
I mean, you know, in the friends, they're allies. Look,
you know, the American people are elected the president and
you know, we're looking forward to working really constructively with them.
And I'm sure the Prime Minister and Tom mcclady and
you know he'll be out there knocking down, knocking on
doors and saying hello and building, you know, furthering those relationships.
(16:58):
But they are very important to our success as a country.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
There was an interesting story yesterday in the Herald that
the minimum wage rising by one point five in April.
But it turns out that the official advice said it
could go up by two percent, and MB said that
would not lead to any further job losses. Juliander Julianne,
Is that right then? A minimum wage isn't keeping up
(17:24):
with inflation?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, I mean, clearly the minimum wage is not keeping
up with inflation and the cost of living, particularly when
inflation's at two point two. Rents are over four percent
and a lot of people on minimum wage are renters.
Some people are spending more than forty percent of their
income on their housing costs through rent. And yeah, I
think we like it's it's kind of an ideological position
(17:48):
to drag your heels on minimum wage, but if we
want a thriving society, we actually people who work full
time need to be able to make it ends meet,
and that's why things like the living wage are so important.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Mike, the advice was pretty clear. You could have gone
up more more. Why didn't you?
Speaker 5 (18:04):
I look, I think there's all ways a range of
advice from a.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Number of people, but it's the New Zealand First National
Coalition commitment to moderate those increases to the minimum wage.
And but you know, I got to remember the New
Zealand economy still recovering from high interest in recessionary conditions,
and so it's about getting that right balance between supporting
workers but also and limiting those those extra costs on
(18:31):
businesses that have been on their knees.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Have either of you, I'll come to you first Julienne
ever worked for minimum wage?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, heapes and minimum wage jobs in mainly
in the States. When I was, you know, like a teenager,
and minimum wage was extremely low that.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
It was about seven dollars or something.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Oh god, I think it was like five dollars. But
you know, I was living at home mostly. I mean
when I was at eighteen, I worked for minimum wage,
but I got tips at you know, like as a waitress.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
I can't imagine you as a waitress.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
I was good.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I loved waitressing the rest Mike, have you ever worked
for minimum wage?
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Yeah? Well, I was just having a bit of a
chuckle there.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
I'm a self employed farmer, and I've probably been the
most overworked and underpaid person in my business for all of.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
My farming career.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Certainly wouldn't have ever got paid the minimum waves, probably
substantially less if you divided.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
The income by the hour's work.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
So yeah, Okay, I want to finish the show by asking,
because it's the first show back, I want to ask
you both. I'll start with you, Mike, what are your
hopes for twenty twenty five? What do you want to
be sitting here talking about next year? The same time
the first show next year, saying wow, we got this right,
we got that right, we needed to do this.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah, yeah, very good question, Nick. Would I would hope
that we're going to see improved economic conditions, which will
I would like to see that businesses are going to
get up off the cambis and see that there's a
future in the business that they've got and feel confident
in the regulations that we heab and that you know,
(20:09):
the kiwis actually can start to enjoin and join the
opportunities that we'll be able to provide for them. That's
that's really my favent hope.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
On a quick yes or no answer, do you think
that you're actually doing is enough enough to help small
businesses in New Zealand try and get off the campus?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Absolutely, I would say no, very very very quickly, would
say no. I would say that you're doing everything you
possibly can is to prevent those small businesses that have
really worked that hard to survive to keep going. You're
going to knock them over on their feet. And I'm
speaking from personal experience. Julian Genter, what do you want
to see well this time next.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Year, Obviously we'd like to see progress on climate change,
on infrastructure, on housing, like here in Wellington, I feel
like our focus what I can control, as with my
colleague Timotha Pole, will be really focused on helping people
who are having a hard time advocating to government, whether
(21:06):
they're in Kanga Aura housing or Tetoai Mahana council flats
or in private rentals. And we'll be advocating for sensible
approaches to transport infrastructure that actually help us address the
environmental challenges because like I know, a lot of people
were in Los Angeles with those fires, like that could
become the new normal. That sort of thing can happen
(21:28):
here if we don't take action on climate change, and
the steps that we need to take can actually lower
people's costs as well investing in renewable electricity.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Having try, I mean I can.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
We don't have high hopes for the government doing a lot,
but I do hope that in transport we get a
more sensible policy under the new minister christ Bishop, and
I think that's possible.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
You made to support the perfect Yeah right, Thank you
very much both of you. I know that you've got
very busy schedules and I appreciate you taking time out
to come into the studio, Julian Jina and Mike Butterick.
Thank you for your time. How do have a really
good start of the new year. Let's be positive. I'm
trying to be positive.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Yeah, drive and thrive in twenty five.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
No, so thrive in twenty five yep. Oh my god.
If you only knew my backstory, you wouldn't be saying that.
Twenty eight minutes to twelve. Thank you very much, Mike
Butterick and Julian Jinter.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine to am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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