October 1, 2025 • 19 mins
On Politics Thursday, Nick Mills was joined by Labour List MP Kieran McAnulty and National's Wairarapa MP Mike Butterick.
They discussed the governments new energy plan, and it's $500 thousand dollar report. As well as the Kainga Ora apartment block sale, earthquake building rule changes and the data sharing between local body candidates and central government.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
By that's shine. Let's get fired up Politics Thursday with
Nationals MP for to Wire Up.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Mike Butterick Morning, Mike morning. How are you good? What
are you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I'm sitting in the office at some barbie eight degrees outside.
She's an appreciated today.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
You're not on the farm.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Yes, I'm on the farm.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yes, eight degrees on the farm. That wouldn't be much fun.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And Labor spokesperson for Housing, Infrastructure and Public Investment and
some say next leader of the Labor Party Kieren mcinalty.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
How you looped that one?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Because you've been you've been a hitting me for two
long so I had to slip that one, had to
put the little slipper and you know, you're on the
bottom of the racket.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I just sort of had to put it in.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
You've been dealing with that sort of behavior my whole life.
Neck at the bottom of the racket. It's all good, mate,
it's good. Hey.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Before we get stuck into it, I've got a little
bit of a question for you both, because I'm following
this with great interest, the Leah Watkins and the Dame
Friend Wild story over South Wyre Rappa.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
What's going on there? Mike, what's happening here?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Once? This seems to be a little bit of a
gie bargie going on there.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh well, I guess you know. It's just politics and
coming up for elections. Yeah, and you've got two pretty
strong candidates standing. I couldn't tell you who's who's going
to win the day, but yeah, it's a good competition.
We've a's got a good competition and all the local
body electorates.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Karen, do you know what's going on?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Do you know what's going on between Leah what Hawkins
and Dame Frand Wild?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
You know what's happening?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I mean, I'm only seen the paper articles, probably the
same as you.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
Look, is it anything really out of the ordinary. You've
got a pretty robust contest for a local mayoralty and
I'd tell you what, the south winded up a community
would probably be up there with the most engaged in
the country. So there's a lot of interest in this,
so you're interesting to see outflows.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
It's almost like you've got an ex all black great
against the new up and coming. It's almost like you've got,
you know, some one of the great old or blacks
against the new or black, isn't.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
It Well, I'm sure they'd be both delighted to be
called all blacks in their own way. But look, we've
there's a massive issues facing South wided up. I mean,
I'm not sure if all your listeners know, but there's
basically a moratorium on new consents in both Martinborough and
Greytown because the council doesn't have capacity to be able
(02:58):
to upgrade its wastewater treatment that's having a massive flow.
It means no growth, tradees don't have work locally, et cetera,
et cetera, and impacting a lot of businesses and a
lot of individuals. So no wonder there is a lot
of tension in this race because there's a lot at stake.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Oh great, that's good to get that information. I didn't
know that information. I'm sure our listeners would be well
enough educated to know. There is an issue with building
in the wire Apper At the moment, most of the
people that live in Wantington want to go and live
over there. They can't afford to anymore. That's the reality, right.
Let's get into there to politics. The government unveiled their
new energy plan yesterday, more capital for energy companies, promises
(03:36):
for off sure gas exploration, but it seems to lack
any short term power savings for me and my next
door neighbors, Karen, what are your thoughts on the plan?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
What you what are you thinking?
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Well, it's sort of mister Mark in the sense that
they had sort of made it look like it was
going to be a solution that would make it clear
to people how the cost of energy would come down,
and that isn't clear, and it's not evident that what
has been announced will have a material difference. There's a
(04:12):
lot of finger pointing and blaming, as is the way
of this government around trying to pin it on the
previous government. But even that falls a bit flat. Now
at the end of the day, we have businesses and
regional areas closing down because they can't afford the cost
of energy. That is impacting on people's employment in the
local economy and at a household level, people are really
(04:33):
struggling to cover the cost of power. We would have
expected to see an announcement that addresses things in the
short term but has a serious long term structural plan
to address that, and it failed on both counts.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And Mike, you spent five hundred thousand dollars half a
million bucks on this report and you didn't want to
listen to it.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
No, Well, I mean, you know you do get independent
advice and it reports, and well listen to them though, Well,
there will always be various views from any report, and
reports are not new. You asked for people's opinion, you
will get a range of views in terms of look,
I think it's pretty obvious that as a country, across
(05:15):
successive decades we have not invested in renew or new
energy projects and that's probably where we're at today. So
we are doing everything we possibly can to get investment
into renewables.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Like my problem with this, This isn't asking your next
neighbor how to cut your lawns. This is getting experts
paying them a lot of money to come up with
a solution to a problem that we've got, and you
don't want to listen to it.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
No, there are We have taken advice, as you do,
from a range of different people, Nick, and some times
you will follow their advice, sometimes you won't. There will
always be a range of views. But you know, there
is quite a bit of investment needed in energy. You know,
look at classic example is actually up in the Whitehadow
(06:03):
the other day.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And so Mike, so Mike, how how am I going
to get my power costs down both at my cafe
and both at my house?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Right now? What that report? What are you guys going
to do to help me? Right now?
Speaker 4 (06:17):
There is no medjig bullet in terms of we need
capacity and we need generation, and you know we cannot
do that overnight. That's why we want to invest in
new projects. That's why we did the fast Track Bill.
That's why we're trying to sort out the RMA. You know,
the classic example, you think about the windmills down in Wellington.
(06:38):
There eight years to consent, two years to build.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Karen, can I bring you in how much responsibility do
labor have to take for this because they stop drilling.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Well?
Speaker 5 (06:49):
I can't quite understand why the government is putting so
much emphasis on this when it's quite clear that the
argument is falling flat when we have structural problems in
our energy market. And the example I often point is
that twenty two years ago I was fencing on the
pupatory range on farms. There on an area that had
(07:12):
a consent for a wind farm, that concent is still valid.
That wind farm hasn't been built. There are massive issues
that stem for many, many years over why we haven't
built enough renewable energy and the incentives haven't been there
for them to put it investment into those while we
can still make massive profits on other forms of energy,
(07:36):
which is part of the reason why.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
We're here, Karen, one of my great.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
We need to face the fact that this has been
a long time coming and New Zealanders want actual reform
and listening to expert advice. When you pay half a
million bucks for a report and sit on it for
six months when you knew you were going to ignore
it and come up with no solutions, we're no further
along than where we were twenty two years ago.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Can I just ask you both very quickly because I
want to move on to other things, but I want
to know why, and it's a personal growth. Solar hasn't
become you know people all new builds. Surely Mike should
have compulsory solar simple no if butts maybes?
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Yeah, look and I'm not sure and whether it should
be compulsory. But I do know probably five six years
ago actually one of my brothers build a house and
at the time the economics didn't stack up. But the
technology has got significantly better and more efficient, and there
are a number of new builds now that are actually
doing it, and there's actually quite a number of farms
that are put in it on their farm buildings because
(08:37):
obviously they've got a lot of space on top. It
has got better and more efficient and more affordable, and
it actually does stack up next. So I think we've
seen exponential growth in solar, which is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Karen.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
If it stacks up when you become prime minister, will
you make it compulsory.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
There's a massive flaw in that question there that it's
not going to happen. But the guts of the question
is what role can sol the play and what role
can the government play and encouraging them, And I think
the answer to both of those is a massive role.
The government could be incentivizing and making it easier for
people to put solar on their properties. It could be
(09:16):
looking to put sola onto government buildings like schools, for example,
which are obviously present in every community in the country.
Why is that important one because it helps households reduce
their costs. But also think back just when we last
had our pressure point the last time around, when there
was a serious threat of us running out of power,
(09:37):
it was only the grid's ability to access those that
had solar power that got us across the line. Now
this is has to play a massive part moving forward.
If that could save us from the brink last time
on the current levels, then it's going to add a
lot of pressure off if the government does it's but
to help households and government buildings put solar on their roofs.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Right's move on, move on.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
If I could just coman just quickly on that as well.
You know, solar is great. The challenge has been technology
and the actual storage of it, because you know, the
issue was, you know, the sun goes to bed at night.
Of course everyone comes home and turns all their power on.
There's a little bit of misalignment. So it's the storage
and the technology is critical there and that is getting better.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Okay, let's move on. Earthquake building regulations. Great announcement this week,
fifty five percent of buildings that would have been deemed unsafe.
Minister Chris binksive will save eight billion dollars throughout New
Zealand one billion dollars in Wellington alone.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Mike, are these.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Buildings actually safer all of a sudden now? I mean
why would they Why would they just the switch of
a pen make them safer?
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Well, you know there's there's various remedial things. You know,
it varies from building but I think look, you know,
logic and a balanced approach is finally won the day.
It is risk based, you know, the wire rapper and
up through into any vert there's one hundred and sixty
seven million dollars and savings. But you know, Chrispent Minister
East in a team, they've done an outstanding job. But
(11:12):
I think it's about has provided clarity and certainty for
building owners and that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Karen, Do you think there's a catch Herald? Do you
think this could be the little sort of kick in
the backside Willington needs to get moving again because we've
got so many derelict buildings.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
Yeah, at the end of the day, we have lent
our support to this. We can't forget that the legislation
essentially came in effect after the christ earthquake. And we
can't ever lose sight of what happened there and what
the legislation that the National Government we're trying to achieve.
(11:50):
We lent our support to it then, and we lend
our support to the adjustments. Now there is a balance
and we know where. We're looking through the detail of
this carefully, which is only right. We don't want a
situation where we've ended up with where so many buildings
are dear because those that own them simply can't afford
to get them up to scratch or can't afford to
(12:11):
demolish them. But we also need to ensure public safety. Now,
on the face of it, where Minister pink has landed
looks about right, but there's a responsible thing to then
go through the details through the process, and that's what
we've committed to doing. So if the if the feedback
is that there are additional adjustments that could be made
to get that balance even better, then we'll go through
(12:33):
that process constructively. We've got to get this right.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Politics Thursday with Mike Butterick and Karen McNulty The Wire
Wrapper Boys. The Diction Street flat sale is sparked debate
around the laws around EWE sales, but also the internal
issues within kyd Aura, Mike, these laws need to be changed,
or is this just another complete cock up from kind Aurora?
Speaker 4 (12:57):
It was. I don't have all the information about how
any negotiations happened, so you'll quickly telling you too much.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
You me quickly tell you for our listeners as well
that don't know the story. It was a giant block,
eleven story block in the just off Willis Street, right
on Willis Street, the middle of Wellington, sold kngaror owned,
and there were flats. They were no good. They sold
them to the EWI for a million. The EWE on
sold them to a developer for three million, made two
million dollar profit in twenty one days.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Okay, they are they the Dickson Street flets you're talking
about now? I say, yeah, ok, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty
sure I know where you're talking there. Yeah. I mean, look,
it was an operational decision by kind of Aura. You know,
it's probably something that I know about as much as
what you've told me there next, so I probably shouldn't comment,
but I guess you know, any development of those Dickson
Street flits, it's got to be good for Willington, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I don't think anyone at Kyngorora knew exactly what was
going on there before they made the decision either, Karen,
I mean, this is just another cock up from Kungarora,
isn't it.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Well, I actually don't know. I mean, I'm not going
to jump in and put the boodh in order for
when to be fair that details are pretty much limited
to what you've just said. I don't know anything more
than that. In Thinness, however, what I do know is
that on things like that it's quite often and I
understand this is the case in this instance, is that
(14:23):
through treaty settlements that locally we get right of first
purchase and that's what happened here, and then what happens
after that is up to them. Now. So there's no
question around whether the EWI should have purchased it. The
question is around wasn't an appropriate price?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Absolutely? Why wasn't it put on the market? Why wasn't
it put on the market.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
So yes, no one's got any question about the herewe
having first right or of fusual that's three D a
white tangy stuff. No one's arguing that. People are arguing
that it was a backdoor deal.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
Well, you can't have one without the other. In fairness,
if if they have right of first purchase, as is
the case in treaty settlements, and every party in Parliament
supported this particular settlement, then they have the right purchase.
How they then landed on the purchase price, I do
not know, right, don't. If we're going to be asking questions,
(15:16):
I think it has to be around there. It shouldn't
be around the ewi's right to purchase the no one's
in the treaty on no one's.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
No one on the show's had that argument. What we're
saying is the value wasn't right, and kinnger Or made
a giant screw up, and we keep we keep getting
that same story. And I think it's time that we
we need to have more governance over that organization from government.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
Mike options that need answering, but I'm not sure that
we're the right people to answer those.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Unfortunately. Look, I agree as well with with Kieran. It's
an operational decision, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So yeah, well, it's an operational decision that looks on
the face of it like a giant screw up, and
no one's actually coming out and saying the real telling
us the real story. We are just left wondering that
suddenly eleven story building got sold for a million dollars
and then on sold for three million dollars when the
values are hell of a lot more than that, and
anyone with eyes would know that right anyway, that's my
(16:17):
ripe for the Day, Journalist Amelia Wade was sent a
text from an ACT candidate in her local elections who
knew her name and her suburb. He got the information
from a party database and personally responded to Wade's text.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
According to the Post.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
This also happened to an editor in the Wellington electorate, Mike,
where do we draw the line between central and local
government sharing data at an election time?
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Good question, Nick, And we don't run candidates and local government,
so I'm not sure how you know how that works
with acting, but you know we data is key, and
Karinel had the same view. I would imagine, and it's
particularly important to engage with people online and through social
at you in these days. But I'm very careful that
(17:08):
I always ask people's permission and say are you happy
to hear from me? Would you like to hear from me?
Because you know, people do want to hear from us,
but we are very careful about how we get the information,
and we always tell people, you know, that we want
to engage with them before we know when we.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Ask Karen, Karen, can I ask you if you're doing
the same thing for Andrew Little and Wellington or the
labor you know, are you giving them sharing data with
them and giving him information that you've got?
Speaker 5 (17:37):
I don't. I don't know the answers that. Actually the
thing is that there are legitimate ways to get information
on contact details on people. I mean you use the
electoral role, for example, to know where people live, and
then over the successive campaigns you pick up information from
people that you've door not on, or you might have
(17:58):
phone called, they might have signed a petition and given
you permission to then have their details and contact at
a later date. That's the usual process to go about
these sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Don't you think that's a bit creepy?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Do you think it's a bit creepy when it was
a personal text coming back, I mean she was a
journalist and they had her details because she was a
journalist to text her back personally, I mean.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
I mean old text people personally. Myself Nick. But but
you know I've always asked if they're happy to receive
information from me first, so you know, very mindful.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Of it, Karen, Well, we will in the general election
campaign like we have every other time. We will contact
people that we have on our base. We'll knock on
doors and phone call and we'll also use text messages.
But we get that and that we get those details
as an accumulative process over many elections. I don't know
(18:54):
how they.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Don't you think that you shouldn't actually get involved in
the local stuff. I mean, that's that's combining the center
and local government, doesn't it.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
Well, I don't think we. I don't know if we
are or not. And now I guess thecation is around
whether the ACT Party has done that, and I just
don't know the answers to that. Yeah, you're right, either
this is appropriate or how they got the information, that's
a valid question. I can only tell you how we
go about things and how we campaign.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Thank you, And you're right, that's an ACT thing. So
we'll get on to ACT and we'll find out from them.
It just doesn't seem right to me. Thank you both
very much for joining us this morning. Karen lovely to
talk to you again. Nice to hear that you're still
alive and kicking, and we'll have you on the show
some more. Karen mcnulton from Labor and Mike and Mike
(19:45):
Butterick from National.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine to am
week days, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
By that's shine. Let's get fired up Politics Thursday with
Nationals MP for to Wire Up.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Mike Butterick Morning, Mike morning. How are you good? What
are you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I'm sitting in the office at some barbie eight degrees outside.
She's an appreciated today.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
You're not on the farm.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Yes, I'm on the farm.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yes, eight degrees on the farm. That wouldn't be much fun.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And Labor spokesperson for Housing, Infrastructure and Public Investment and
some say next leader of the Labor Party Kieren mcinalty.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
How you looped that one?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Because you've been you've been a hitting me for two
long so I had to slip that one, had to
put the little slipper and you know, you're on the
bottom of the racket.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I just sort of had to put it in.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
You've been dealing with that sort of behavior my whole life.
Neck at the bottom of the racket. It's all good, mate,
it's good. Hey.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Before we get stuck into it, I've got a little
bit of a question for you both, because I'm following
this with great interest, the Leah Watkins and the Dame
Friend Wild story over South Wyre Rappa.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
What's going on there? Mike, what's happening here?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Once? This seems to be a little bit of a
gie bargie going on there.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh well, I guess you know. It's just politics and
coming up for elections. Yeah, and you've got two pretty
strong candidates standing. I couldn't tell you who's who's going
to win the day, but yeah, it's a good competition.
We've a's got a good competition and all the local
body electorates.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Karen, do you know what's going on?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Do you know what's going on between Leah what Hawkins
and Dame Frand Wild?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
You know what's happening?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I mean, I'm only seen the paper articles, probably the
same as you.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
Look, is it anything really out of the ordinary. You've
got a pretty robust contest for a local mayoralty and
I'd tell you what, the south winded up a community
would probably be up there with the most engaged in
the country. So there's a lot of interest in this,
so you're interesting to see outflows.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
It's almost like you've got an ex all black great
against the new up and coming. It's almost like you've got,
you know, some one of the great old or blacks
against the new or black, isn't.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
It Well, I'm sure they'd be both delighted to be
called all blacks in their own way. But look, we've
there's a massive issues facing South wided up. I mean,
I'm not sure if all your listeners know, but there's
basically a moratorium on new consents in both Martinborough and
Greytown because the council doesn't have capacity to be able
(02:58):
to upgrade its wastewater treatment that's having a massive flow.
It means no growth, tradees don't have work locally, et cetera,
et cetera, and impacting a lot of businesses and a
lot of individuals. So no wonder there is a lot
of tension in this race because there's a lot at stake.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Oh great, that's good to get that information. I didn't
know that information. I'm sure our listeners would be well
enough educated to know. There is an issue with building
in the wire Apper At the moment, most of the
people that live in Wantington want to go and live
over there. They can't afford to anymore. That's the reality, right.
Let's get into there to politics. The government unveiled their
new energy plan yesterday, more capital for energy companies, promises
(03:36):
for off sure gas exploration, but it seems to lack
any short term power savings for me and my next
door neighbors, Karen, what are your thoughts on the plan?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
What you what are you thinking?
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Well, it's sort of mister Mark in the sense that
they had sort of made it look like it was
going to be a solution that would make it clear
to people how the cost of energy would come down,
and that isn't clear, and it's not evident that what
has been announced will have a material difference. There's a
(04:12):
lot of finger pointing and blaming, as is the way
of this government around trying to pin it on the
previous government. But even that falls a bit flat. Now
at the end of the day, we have businesses and
regional areas closing down because they can't afford the cost
of energy. That is impacting on people's employment in the
local economy and at a household level, people are really
(04:33):
struggling to cover the cost of power. We would have
expected to see an announcement that addresses things in the
short term but has a serious long term structural plan
to address that, and it failed on both counts.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And Mike, you spent five hundred thousand dollars half a
million bucks on this report and you didn't want to
listen to it.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
No, Well, I mean, you know you do get independent
advice and it reports, and well listen to them though, Well,
there will always be various views from any report, and
reports are not new. You asked for people's opinion, you
will get a range of views in terms of look,
I think it's pretty obvious that as a country, across
(05:15):
successive decades we have not invested in renew or new
energy projects and that's probably where we're at today. So
we are doing everything we possibly can to get investment
into renewables.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Like my problem with this, This isn't asking your next
neighbor how to cut your lawns. This is getting experts
paying them a lot of money to come up with
a solution to a problem that we've got, and you
don't want to listen to it.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
No, there are We have taken advice, as you do,
from a range of different people, Nick, and some times
you will follow their advice, sometimes you won't. There will
always be a range of views. But you know, there
is quite a bit of investment needed in energy. You know,
look at classic example is actually up in the Whitehadow
(06:03):
the other day.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And so Mike, so Mike, how how am I going
to get my power costs down both at my cafe
and both at my house?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Right now? What that report? What are you guys going
to do to help me? Right now?
Speaker 4 (06:17):
There is no medjig bullet in terms of we need
capacity and we need generation, and you know we cannot
do that overnight. That's why we want to invest in
new projects. That's why we did the fast Track Bill.
That's why we're trying to sort out the RMA. You know,
the classic example, you think about the windmills down in Wellington.
(06:38):
There eight years to consent, two years to build.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Karen, can I bring you in how much responsibility do
labor have to take for this because they stop drilling.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Well?
Speaker 5 (06:49):
I can't quite understand why the government is putting so
much emphasis on this when it's quite clear that the
argument is falling flat when we have structural problems in
our energy market. And the example I often point is
that twenty two years ago I was fencing on the
pupatory range on farms. There on an area that had
(07:12):
a consent for a wind farm, that concent is still valid.
That wind farm hasn't been built. There are massive issues
that stem for many, many years over why we haven't
built enough renewable energy and the incentives haven't been there
for them to put it investment into those while we
can still make massive profits on other forms of energy,
(07:36):
which is part of the reason why.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
We're here, Karen, one of my great.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
We need to face the fact that this has been
a long time coming and New Zealanders want actual reform
and listening to expert advice. When you pay half a
million bucks for a report and sit on it for
six months when you knew you were going to ignore
it and come up with no solutions, we're no further
along than where we were twenty two years ago.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Can I just ask you both very quickly because I
want to move on to other things, but I want
to know why, and it's a personal growth. Solar hasn't
become you know people all new builds. Surely Mike should
have compulsory solar simple no if butts maybes?
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Yeah, look and I'm not sure and whether it should
be compulsory. But I do know probably five six years
ago actually one of my brothers build a house and
at the time the economics didn't stack up. But the
technology has got significantly better and more efficient, and there
are a number of new builds now that are actually
doing it, and there's actually quite a number of farms
that are put in it on their farm buildings because
(08:37):
obviously they've got a lot of space on top. It
has got better and more efficient and more affordable, and
it actually does stack up next. So I think we've
seen exponential growth in solar, which is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Karen.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
If it stacks up when you become prime minister, will
you make it compulsory.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
There's a massive flaw in that question there that it's
not going to happen. But the guts of the question
is what role can sol the play and what role
can the government play and encouraging them, And I think
the answer to both of those is a massive role.
The government could be incentivizing and making it easier for
people to put solar on their properties. It could be
(09:16):
looking to put sola onto government buildings like schools, for example,
which are obviously present in every community in the country.
Why is that important one because it helps households reduce
their costs. But also think back just when we last
had our pressure point the last time around, when there
was a serious threat of us running out of power,
(09:37):
it was only the grid's ability to access those that
had solar power that got us across the line. Now
this is has to play a massive part moving forward.
If that could save us from the brink last time
on the current levels, then it's going to add a
lot of pressure off if the government does it's but
to help households and government buildings put solar on their roofs.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Right's move on, move on.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
If I could just coman just quickly on that as well.
You know, solar is great. The challenge has been technology
and the actual storage of it, because you know, the
issue was, you know, the sun goes to bed at night.
Of course everyone comes home and turns all their power on.
There's a little bit of misalignment. So it's the storage
and the technology is critical there and that is getting better.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Okay, let's move on. Earthquake building regulations. Great announcement this week,
fifty five percent of buildings that would have been deemed unsafe.
Minister Chris binksive will save eight billion dollars throughout New
Zealand one billion dollars in Wellington alone.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Mike, are these.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Buildings actually safer all of a sudden now? I mean
why would they Why would they just the switch of
a pen make them safer?
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Well, you know there's there's various remedial things. You know,
it varies from building but I think look, you know,
logic and a balanced approach is finally won the day.
It is risk based, you know, the wire rapper and
up through into any vert there's one hundred and sixty
seven million dollars and savings. But you know, Chrispent Minister
East in a team, they've done an outstanding job. But
(11:12):
I think it's about has provided clarity and certainty for
building owners and that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Karen, Do you think there's a catch Herald? Do you
think this could be the little sort of kick in
the backside Willington needs to get moving again because we've
got so many derelict buildings.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
Yeah, at the end of the day, we have lent
our support to this. We can't forget that the legislation
essentially came in effect after the christ earthquake. And we
can't ever lose sight of what happened there and what
the legislation that the National Government we're trying to achieve.
(11:50):
We lent our support to it then, and we lend
our support to the adjustments. Now there is a balance
and we know where. We're looking through the detail of
this carefully, which is only right. We don't want a
situation where we've ended up with where so many buildings
are dear because those that own them simply can't afford
to get them up to scratch or can't afford to
(12:11):
demolish them. But we also need to ensure public safety. Now,
on the face of it, where Minister pink has landed
looks about right, but there's a responsible thing to then
go through the details through the process, and that's what
we've committed to doing. So if the if the feedback
is that there are additional adjustments that could be made
to get that balance even better, then we'll go through
(12:33):
that process constructively. We've got to get this right.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Politics Thursday with Mike Butterick and Karen McNulty The Wire
Wrapper Boys. The Diction Street flat sale is sparked debate
around the laws around EWE sales, but also the internal
issues within kyd Aura, Mike, these laws need to be changed,
or is this just another complete cock up from kind Aurora?
Speaker 4 (12:57):
It was. I don't have all the information about how
any negotiations happened, so you'll quickly telling you too much.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
You me quickly tell you for our listeners as well
that don't know the story. It was a giant block,
eleven story block in the just off Willis Street, right
on Willis Street, the middle of Wellington, sold kngaror owned,
and there were flats. They were no good. They sold
them to the EWI for a million. The EWE on
sold them to a developer for three million, made two
million dollar profit in twenty one days.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Okay, they are they the Dickson Street flets you're talking
about now? I say, yeah, ok, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty
sure I know where you're talking there. Yeah. I mean, look,
it was an operational decision by kind of Aura. You know,
it's probably something that I know about as much as
what you've told me there next, so I probably shouldn't comment,
but I guess you know, any development of those Dickson
Street flits, it's got to be good for Willington, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I don't think anyone at Kyngorora knew exactly what was
going on there before they made the decision either, Karen,
I mean, this is just another cock up from Kungarora,
isn't it.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Well, I actually don't know. I mean, I'm not going
to jump in and put the boodh in order for
when to be fair that details are pretty much limited
to what you've just said. I don't know anything more
than that. In Thinness, however, what I do know is
that on things like that it's quite often and I
understand this is the case in this instance, is that
(14:23):
through treaty settlements that locally we get right of first
purchase and that's what happened here, and then what happens
after that is up to them. Now. So there's no
question around whether the EWI should have purchased it. The
question is around wasn't an appropriate price?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Absolutely? Why wasn't it put on the market? Why wasn't
it put on the market.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
So yes, no one's got any question about the herewe
having first right or of fusual that's three D a
white tangy stuff. No one's arguing that. People are arguing
that it was a backdoor deal.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
Well, you can't have one without the other. In fairness,
if if they have right of first purchase, as is
the case in treaty settlements, and every party in Parliament
supported this particular settlement, then they have the right purchase.
How they then landed on the purchase price, I do
not know, right, don't. If we're going to be asking questions,
(15:16):
I think it has to be around there. It shouldn't
be around the ewi's right to purchase the no one's
in the treaty on no one's.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
No one on the show's had that argument. What we're
saying is the value wasn't right, and kinnger Or made
a giant screw up, and we keep we keep getting
that same story. And I think it's time that we
we need to have more governance over that organization from government.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
Mike options that need answering, but I'm not sure that
we're the right people to answer those.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Unfortunately. Look, I agree as well with with Kieran. It's
an operational decision, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So yeah, well, it's an operational decision that looks on
the face of it like a giant screw up, and
no one's actually coming out and saying the real telling
us the real story. We are just left wondering that
suddenly eleven story building got sold for a million dollars
and then on sold for three million dollars when the
values are hell of a lot more than that, and
anyone with eyes would know that right anyway, that's my
(16:17):
ripe for the Day, Journalist Amelia Wade was sent a
text from an ACT candidate in her local elections who
knew her name and her suburb. He got the information
from a party database and personally responded to Wade's text.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
According to the Post.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
This also happened to an editor in the Wellington electorate, Mike,
where do we draw the line between central and local
government sharing data at an election time?
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Good question, Nick, And we don't run candidates and local government,
so I'm not sure how you know how that works
with acting, but you know we data is key, and
Karinel had the same view. I would imagine, and it's
particularly important to engage with people online and through social
at you in these days. But I'm very careful that
(17:08):
I always ask people's permission and say are you happy
to hear from me? Would you like to hear from me?
Because you know, people do want to hear from us,
but we are very careful about how we get the information,
and we always tell people, you know, that we want
to engage with them before we know when we.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Ask Karen, Karen, can I ask you if you're doing
the same thing for Andrew Little and Wellington or the
labor you know, are you giving them sharing data with
them and giving him information that you've got?
Speaker 5 (17:37):
I don't. I don't know the answers that. Actually the
thing is that there are legitimate ways to get information
on contact details on people. I mean you use the
electoral role, for example, to know where people live, and
then over the successive campaigns you pick up information from
people that you've door not on, or you might have
(17:58):
phone called, they might have signed a petition and given
you permission to then have their details and contact at
a later date. That's the usual process to go about
these sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Don't you think that's a bit creepy?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Do you think it's a bit creepy when it was
a personal text coming back, I mean she was a
journalist and they had her details because she was a
journalist to text her back personally, I mean.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
I mean old text people personally. Myself Nick. But but
you know I've always asked if they're happy to receive
information from me first, so you know, very mindful.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Of it, Karen, Well, we will in the general election
campaign like we have every other time. We will contact
people that we have on our base. We'll knock on
doors and phone call and we'll also use text messages.
But we get that and that we get those details
as an accumulative process over many elections. I don't know
(18:54):
how they.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Don't you think that you shouldn't actually get involved in
the local stuff. I mean, that's that's combining the center
and local government, doesn't it.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
Well, I don't think we. I don't know if we
are or not. And now I guess thecation is around
whether the ACT Party has done that, and I just
don't know the answers to that. Yeah, you're right, either
this is appropriate or how they got the information, that's
a valid question. I can only tell you how we
go about things and how we campaign.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Thank you, And you're right, that's an ACT thing. So
we'll get on to ACT and we'll find out from them.
It just doesn't seem right to me. Thank you both
very much for joining us this morning. Karen lovely to
talk to you again. Nice to hear that you're still
alive and kicking, and we'll have you on the show
some more. Karen mcnulton from Labor and Mike and Mike
(19:45):
Butterick from National.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine to am
week days, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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