September 17, 2025 • 18 mins
New Zealand’s economy is back in contraction.
Latest data just out from Stats NZ shows GDP fell 0.9% in the three months to June.
That follows six months of growth, after six months of contraction.
Nick Mills gauged reaction to the announcement with Labour's Ayesha Verrall and National's Mike Butterick in Politics Thursday.
They also discussed the current teacher and nurse strikes, the rise in New Zealanders being sent to prison and Labour's relationship with Te Pāti Māori.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at B Politics.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thursday with Labour's Health and Wellington's Issue spokesperson Asher. Very
good morning, I Sha wedding Neck. We've just been talking
about Wow. You're going to try and get some tickets
to Wow.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I will try my best. I went last year and
it was just a wonderful, wonderful event, feast for the eyes.
I can't wait to go.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, make sure you take your daughter this time well
because I think that's you know, when you can change
change people's minds at a young age and creatively, it's
just it's mind boggling. Nationals Wirerapper MP Mike Butterick, Mike, have.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
You been to Wowe?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
No? I haven't Eastley that Good morning and good morning,
I Shaw morning.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
You better to have more buyers. I can go along,
take the wife out for a big trip from the
wire Rapper to Wellington.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yeah. I'll tell you what though, Nick, isn't it a
perfect example of you know, city million dollar boosts to
the Wellington perfect example of value edit with when you
get some bums on seats, you know, when you can
get some events and tourist com isn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Let's start with some pretty serious
piece of news. It's just hit our computers. In the
last twenty five minutes, the GDP gross domestic product, it's
gone down by zero point nine. Mike, Mike, I'm going
to start with you on this because I've just got
a text and too, Henik. My business is a caf
(01:29):
and it's gone backwards since July, so this quarter will
be worse. Holding on, but it's grim, Sam.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah, and look absolutely sympathized with that, with that cafe owner.
But look, you know it's that second quarter that we've
got to be my or I just remember that, you
know that was Liberation Day, was mixed up in amongst that,
and that's actually been the biggest up people, you know,
in wheel trade for a long long time. So you know,
not ideal, but not unexpected.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
But Sam's saying it's getting no better, and I'm living
proof it's not getting any better. So don't please, don't
try and sell it. The next three month is going
to be fine and everything's going to be okay, because
I mean, no expert, no experts said zero point nine.
The experts were worse scenario was zero point five.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yeah, and so you know it's it's it's not unexpected.
You know that that was a pretty significant you know,
Liberation Day, that said, bigger influence on confidence right around
the world, including here. And you know, so that is
that is really just as a result of what we've
seen there as a result of in a large part
to that. But you know, and there are indications that
(02:42):
you know, things are coming right. You know, you think
about households, you think about interest rates. There's about forty
forty four percent of households still on fixed mortgages to
come off in the next three to four months. You know,
the cost of cost of capital, cost of interest has
gone down. But you know, hopefully we're going to remind
you we can hopefully we can talk about you know, tourism.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well I've just Adam to record that little piece base
so that in three months time we can play it
back to you if it doesn't aisher. These figures are
worse than what most people expected.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Worse than expected economists. We're predicting at most zero point
five percent decrease. It's zero point nine and get the
three point five percent decrease in manufacturing. So you would have.
It feels like a factory is closing every week at
the moment. Smith Fields meet Works and Timaru, Kinleath paper Mill,
Penrose Mill, two Windstone pulp mills, use Valet saw mill.
(03:38):
The Columbine industry's closing. Clothing is closing down, likely closure
of the Sea Lord factory in Nelson, proposed closure of
the Turkoto applywood plant. And that's the reality in our
economy at.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
The time frame is those have.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Been an ounced already. That's what's been how long a
time frame it would have been over this quarter A
lot of it. Yeah, yeah, maybe one of them goes
back six months, but this is really it's still out there.
And you know, Christopher Luxen promised to make things better
and instead of things again worse.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Well, how I'm just so if I can make a
little bit of context around that. For example, Smithsfield Freezing
Worse was one hundred and thirty thirty eight year old
freezing meat processor in Timorrow. They've talked about that for
years and years. There's been a significant reduction in the
number of animals for processing. That is the context behind that.
(04:27):
And if we want to talk about.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Trees for all the mills as well, not enough trees
around New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
For the mills to cope out, and of course some
of the mills as well. Nick, As you know, is
the energy prices, and you know when you go in
and you have a bill and guess band, you know
with energy, Mike, that's.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Absolute Rabbi Mike, that was a bad on exploration for
gas that would take ten years to get out of
the ground next as best case scenario. So there it
is a complete falsehood to say that the oil and
gas band is what's behind energy prices. Now, that is rabbit.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Certainly confidence that it hasn't helped with the confidence and
the challenge we have had.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
You've got to stop blaming other people and take responsibility.
These are people's jobs you're talking about. Stop blaming, take responsibility.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
But I'm talking about the energy prices and for decades
we have failed to plan ahead as a nation, which
is why we've come up with a fast Track bill
so we can actually get on and start building some
of these wind farms, solar farms, hydrodams to actually get energy.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Mike, Mike, can I just I want to move on
to another topic because we've only got you guys for
half an hour. But I want you to be really
honest to our listeners because a lot of our listeners
are and the wyre Rapper, are you hearing that everything's
fantastic in the wy Rapper.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Look, it's mixed. It's mixed it as you would expect.
You know. The primary industry, as we've talked about multiple
times on here, is actually going pretty good. That is
starting to filter into our towns and our businesses, so
you know, that is a good thing. There is a
little bit of building activity and that is no pun intended.
That is building, you know, but acknowledging It is tough,
(06:13):
right and if you've had any sort of debt, you know,
when interestrates are really high inflational s, it was incredibly challenging, right,
And we have talked about this multiple times. There is
no major button. These things take time. So yes, it's
a bit lumpy, but the confidence is certainly lifting.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Can I just move on to for a second, mic,
I mean, I saw what would labor have done differently.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
One of the most important things government can do is
when the economy is contracting and there's not enough stimulus
in the economy, not canceled big infrastructure projects and Unfortunately,
the government came in, had a rush of blood to
the head, canceled a whole bunch of projects, including school builds.
Crying Aura belds now, over ten thousand construction workers have
(07:00):
have left the country and all of that is economic
activity that is not happening and has been delayed into
heard during the time when we needed it most to
keep us going.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Right, Move on to the unions. Teachers and nurses seem
to be in the headlines a lot this year for striking.
I want to come to you first on this one.
Political scientists to doctor didn't call them a sir doctor,
Bryce Edwards reckons it happened a lot more under a
blue government because unions don't want to upset their mates
on the labor side. I mean, when I started thinking
(07:30):
about this, I think he's right. What do you think.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I think that's rubbish?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
How could it be rubbish?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Well, because I do recall strikes while we were in government.
But the issue is we were able to resolve them
because we paid nurs with your mates in the unit.
Because I'll tell you what, those negotiations just as rigorous
or vigorous I should say, under labor as they are
under National, and you know, because we value workers and
(07:58):
the contributions they make, we were able to keep wages
up with inflation in some cases, like for nurses or
just in the health I can say nurses, midwives, allied
and technical staff and admin and clerical staff all got
pay equity settlements so that they'll be fairly paid as well.
So that is why workers have different outcomes under labor
(08:19):
because labor cares about wages. Now, they're more likely to
go on strike under national because National prioritizers giving tax
cuts rather than paying workers what they deserve.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Sorry, I disagree with you a little bit on that one.
I share Mike Butterick. Do the people the occupations like
teachers and nurses strike more and work harder to get
pay rises under a national led government than a labor
led government.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Well, look, I mean it's got that appearance, but I
mean I'll let the listeners join whatever dots they may
out of that. But I guess, Look, it's just disappointing that,
you know, the unions have gone forward to disruptive strike
action over bargaining and negotiation. The message would always be
get round the table and get round that bargaining table
(09:06):
before you do all of that and that doesn't seem
to have happened.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Well, I think that's a really responsible perspective. Actually, Mike,
the issue is that some of your ministers haven't been
so responsible. They've been really provocative, you know, Simmy and Brown,
really provoking the nurses. And I do think that's when
he takes actions like leaving messages for them on his
electorate office that say that they're putting patients at risk.
(09:31):
That's the sort of thing that really makes it hard
to reach a settlement, the sort of thing ministers should
restrain from.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Actually, I sure, what did you feel when you saw
the nurses turn their back on Simim Brown? I mean,
I don't I just think of a thing called respect.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Well, I agree respect is important in our public discourse,
and I don't think it's respectful when things happen like
people are shout or abusive. But they were showing their
opposition to how he was he was treating them, And
as I said, I believe Simon's Brown behavior is provocative.
(10:09):
They were responding to that. They weren't yelling, throwing anything
like that. I think that is a valid form of.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Political I didn't quite understand the word prerogative, provocative, prerocative, provocative.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
He's going around saying these things like you don't care
about your patients is what he's implying when the nurses
are taking action. And I think that's not a responsible
thing for a minister to do because it just makes
it harder to reach a settlement. Right, He doesn't need
to do that. He can be above this because actually
the parties to the bargaining are the nurses and the
(10:42):
Health New Zealand. But he's involving himself making these statements,
trying to up the ante on things, and unfortunately, I
think it'll backfire.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Mike, what did you think when you saw the nurses
turn their back on surmem Bran?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Yeah, I mean it's yeah, look, I mean I think, look,
it's really loud to have different sort of opinions in
terms of whether it's disrespectful or a lot of Let
other people make judgment. But again, you know Simin has
been clear. You know it does have also you choose
to have strike action, it does disrupt parents, it does
disrupt patients, and so it does impact the whole lot
(11:18):
of people and get round the bargaining table.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Politics Thursday, aishaviral Mike Butterick. The fallout continues from comments
made by Tapati Mari Empre Tuckerta Ferris after the Tamakiti
mikiro by election. Chris Hipkins has distanced himself from comments,
but still hasn't ruled out working with the party aieshah.
(11:41):
When will he rule out or will he not rule out?
Is that what we're going to have as a coalition
government if we vote for you guys next year.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I think Chris will have more to say about that
next year at some point. I don't know when that
will when that will be, but probably a bit too
early for everyone to be thinking about party and arrangements
at this stage. The focus for Labor is on growing
our vote and look where we've come from. We were
on twenty six percent at the election. We're now the
biggest party on the polling. So we've got to keep
(12:09):
that momentum up and then we'll have a different set
of options.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Do you reckon that you would get more support if
you ruled them out?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Well, it's interesting. I don't know the answer to that,
but it just reminds me that we've got to focus
on doing our job, keeping, on growing our vote, keeping
really focused on jobs, health and homes and re election
in the cost of living.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You see, my issue is that, you know, as much
as I really want to take you seriously, I look
at the side show and I say to myself, you know,
I respect and understand what they're doing, but they're just
an activist party.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Now.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Well, Labor has the opportunity to learn from Christopher Luckson's
week leadership and has mismanagement of the coalition dynamics. Let's
remember that he got into this situation because he didn't
rule Winston Peters out and Winston Peters's vote surge before
the election, and now he's stuck with Winston Peters and
(13:03):
Seymour having a fight about Palestine and all these sorts
of sorts of thing. So you know, we have a
different set of choices, and that's just a reminder to
us that we've got to grow our vote saying really
focused on the things that matters to kiwi's jobs, health
and homes and real action on the cost of living.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Mike Butterick, you are with the people of d wire Rapper.
You can't tell me that all this race stuff has
not been mentioned. I mean, everywhere I go it's mentioned
it's talked about. I mean, tell me what people are
saying to you.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Well, the first thing I would say now, because you know,
I'm incredibly privileged as my role as an electric MP too,
I get to meet different ethnic groups, you know, I
get invited into their families, into their lives, into their communities,
and I really feel for them listening to that rubbish.
You know, they are valued. They add a culture, they
(13:56):
add to our culture, add to a diversity, and as
I say, it's a really privileged position. And I think
the comments are discussing no time for that sort of
rubbish and that you don't condone them. But you know,
I hesitate to think what the coalition was to party
Mary Label will be like around the cabinet table. I mean,
are you going to have a well text, corporate corporate text,
(14:17):
or are you going to have interference in the democratic
right of their ethnic communities? I feel really sorry for them.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
What did you think of rail? Where he's today? Are
only media comments this week? I thought that the TV
one lady what was the name, Mikey did an exceptional
job by just hitting him with terreo. What do you think, Mike?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
No? And I'm sorry that guy, I didn't see that.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Okay, we've been working hard in Parliament this week.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Did you see it either? No, So he came out
and said because of today O speaking week that he
was only going to take questions in today when they
had some content, first time that anyone had seen them
for a while while this was all burning away. So
he's got all the all the reporters looked like they
didn't know what to say, and it upsteps Mikey and
bombombomb in today O and did a great job and
(15:04):
he had to answer it.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Well, I had a few occasions where I've seen the
really the results of decades of investment in Marty language
and Marty language journalism now means we have journalists who
can do that. You couldn't have done that twenty years ago.
And it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Very very cool. Must have been a joint. Now, if
you're naughty, you're going to jail. Okay, so you got
that one, Mike. I've told you that, I've given you
the warning. So I show you've given you the warning too.
If you're naughty, you're going to jail, because you're more
likely to be sent to jail following a confliction ever before.
According to the latest Ministry of Justice stats, fifteen percent
(15:43):
of people receiving confliction were sent to jail last year,
Ei Cheverril, Is this good for our society?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Well, it's certainly not good for the government books because
you're acall bil English and the last national government called
it a moral and fiscal failure. And I don't believe
people get rehabilitated when they are in prison, So it
just keeps social problems and defers them for for longer.
(16:11):
Met is out of control at the moment, and that's
doubled across the last year. So you know, approaches that
actually fix these problems in the community have to be
prioritized much more strongly than the government currently is.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And the issue that I did have with this bike
two is that there's five thousand people less people accessing
the ability to be helped with those drug you know situation,
and that's not a good point.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Oh look, I mean, we know crimes complex and the
factors that lead to people to make that choice. But
you know, we make no apologies about focusing on victims
first and foremost. You know, nobody wakes up and chooses
to be a victim. Somebody that you know is an offender.
(16:58):
They have had to make a choice, right, so we
sent a very clear message that has not been acceptable.
You know, serious crime was the roof ramways through the roof.
That is all coming down and in terms of so look,
we make no apologies for that, and a perfect world, no,
there would be no crime. But that's not where we're at.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You know what concerns me more than most is when
you look at the stats of the Western world, you know,
and you look at where we sit. You know, we
sit seventh or eighth in the world at one hundred
and ninety nine per hundred thousand people. Now that is
not I mean, Australia is way below us. You know,
we should look at our closest friends.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
This is the proportion of people we have in.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Jail, one hundred and ninety nine per hundred thousand. Australia
is one hundred and thirty three or something, way under us.
Where And the other thing, Mike, is that I would
love you to comment on, is that it's a worldwide
fact that the younger you send somebody to jail, the
worst the outcome.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, and look, I wouldn't dispute that. So you know,
there's two things there's there's the consequences for your crimes
that you commit today, and then there's that all complexity
about the drivers of crime and you know day are complex.
The social investment the concept you mentioned billingless. You know
we've stood up there Social Investment Agency that is about
going right through and trying to change the direction of
(18:21):
travel at an early stage in people's lives. And you
know that's going to take time and it's going to
you know, if we focus on those things. So there's
two parts to it as well.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Thank you very much for joining us. Mike, Mike Butter,
the National Wire Wrapper MP and Aishaverro whose Labour's health
and Wellington's issues reporters. Make sure you get along and
see well I share and I we'll talk about it
the next time you're on the show. Got a couple
of weeks off though, haven't.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
You recess hard? Will be working hard.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You will not be working hard. You'll be taking holidays.
Don't try Live on.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Me for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen
live to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine to
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at B Politics.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thursday with Labour's Health and Wellington's Issue spokesperson Asher. Very
good morning, I Sha wedding Neck. We've just been talking
about Wow. You're going to try and get some tickets
to Wow.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I will try my best. I went last year and
it was just a wonderful, wonderful event, feast for the eyes.
I can't wait to go.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, make sure you take your daughter this time well
because I think that's you know, when you can change
change people's minds at a young age and creatively, it's
just it's mind boggling. Nationals Wirerapper MP Mike Butterick, Mike, have.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
You been to Wowe?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
No? I haven't Eastley that Good morning and good morning,
I Shaw morning.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
You better to have more buyers. I can go along,
take the wife out for a big trip from the
wire Rapper to Wellington.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yeah. I'll tell you what though, Nick, isn't it a
perfect example of you know, city million dollar boosts to
the Wellington perfect example of value edit with when you
get some bums on seats, you know, when you can
get some events and tourist com isn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Let's start with some pretty serious
piece of news. It's just hit our computers. In the
last twenty five minutes, the GDP gross domestic product, it's
gone down by zero point nine. Mike, Mike, I'm going
to start with you on this because I've just got
a text and too, Henik. My business is a caf
(01:29):
and it's gone backwards since July, so this quarter will
be worse. Holding on, but it's grim, Sam.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah, and look absolutely sympathized with that, with that cafe owner.
But look, you know it's that second quarter that we've
got to be my or I just remember that, you
know that was Liberation Day, was mixed up in amongst that,
and that's actually been the biggest up people, you know,
in wheel trade for a long long time. So you know,
not ideal, but not unexpected.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
But Sam's saying it's getting no better, and I'm living
proof it's not getting any better. So don't please, don't
try and sell it. The next three month is going
to be fine and everything's going to be okay, because
I mean, no expert, no experts said zero point nine.
The experts were worse scenario was zero point five.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yeah, and so you know it's it's it's not unexpected.
You know that that was a pretty significant you know,
Liberation Day, that said, bigger influence on confidence right around
the world, including here. And you know, so that is
that is really just as a result of what we've
seen there as a result of in a large part
to that. But you know, and there are indications that
(02:42):
you know, things are coming right. You know, you think
about households, you think about interest rates. There's about forty
forty four percent of households still on fixed mortgages to
come off in the next three to four months. You know,
the cost of cost of capital, cost of interest has
gone down. But you know, hopefully we're going to remind
you we can hopefully we can talk about you know, tourism.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well I've just Adam to record that little piece base
so that in three months time we can play it
back to you if it doesn't aisher. These figures are
worse than what most people expected.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Worse than expected economists. We're predicting at most zero point
five percent decrease. It's zero point nine and get the
three point five percent decrease in manufacturing. So you would have.
It feels like a factory is closing every week at
the moment. Smith Fields meet Works and Timaru, Kinleath paper Mill,
Penrose Mill, two Windstone pulp mills, use Valet saw mill.
(03:38):
The Columbine industry's closing. Clothing is closing down, likely closure
of the Sea Lord factory in Nelson, proposed closure of
the Turkoto applywood plant. And that's the reality in our
economy at.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
The time frame is those have.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Been an ounced already. That's what's been how long a
time frame it would have been over this quarter A
lot of it. Yeah, yeah, maybe one of them goes
back six months, but this is really it's still out there.
And you know, Christopher Luxen promised to make things better
and instead of things again worse.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Well, how I'm just so if I can make a
little bit of context around that. For example, Smithsfield Freezing
Worse was one hundred and thirty thirty eight year old
freezing meat processor in Timorrow. They've talked about that for
years and years. There's been a significant reduction in the
number of animals for processing. That is the context behind that.
(04:27):
And if we want to talk about.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Trees for all the mills as well, not enough trees
around New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
For the mills to cope out, and of course some
of the mills as well. Nick, As you know, is
the energy prices, and you know when you go in
and you have a bill and guess band, you know
with energy, Mike, that's.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Absolute Rabbi Mike, that was a bad on exploration for
gas that would take ten years to get out of
the ground next as best case scenario. So there it
is a complete falsehood to say that the oil and
gas band is what's behind energy prices. Now, that is rabbit.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Certainly confidence that it hasn't helped with the confidence and
the challenge we have had.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
You've got to stop blaming other people and take responsibility.
These are people's jobs you're talking about. Stop blaming, take responsibility.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
But I'm talking about the energy prices and for decades
we have failed to plan ahead as a nation, which
is why we've come up with a fast Track bill
so we can actually get on and start building some
of these wind farms, solar farms, hydrodams to actually get energy.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Mike, Mike, can I just I want to move on
to another topic because we've only got you guys for
half an hour. But I want you to be really
honest to our listeners because a lot of our listeners
are and the wyre Rapper, are you hearing that everything's
fantastic in the wy Rapper.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Look, it's mixed. It's mixed it as you would expect.
You know. The primary industry, as we've talked about multiple
times on here, is actually going pretty good. That is
starting to filter into our towns and our businesses, so
you know, that is a good thing. There is a
little bit of building activity and that is no pun intended.
That is building, you know, but acknowledging It is tough,
(06:13):
right and if you've had any sort of debt, you know,
when interestrates are really high inflational s, it was incredibly challenging, right,
And we have talked about this multiple times. There is
no major button. These things take time. So yes, it's
a bit lumpy, but the confidence is certainly lifting.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Can I just move on to for a second, mic,
I mean, I saw what would labor have done differently.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
One of the most important things government can do is
when the economy is contracting and there's not enough stimulus
in the economy, not canceled big infrastructure projects and Unfortunately,
the government came in, had a rush of blood to
the head, canceled a whole bunch of projects, including school builds.
Crying Aura belds now, over ten thousand construction workers have
(07:00):
have left the country and all of that is economic
activity that is not happening and has been delayed into
heard during the time when we needed it most to
keep us going.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Right, Move on to the unions. Teachers and nurses seem
to be in the headlines a lot this year for striking.
I want to come to you first on this one.
Political scientists to doctor didn't call them a sir doctor,
Bryce Edwards reckons it happened a lot more under a
blue government because unions don't want to upset their mates
on the labor side. I mean, when I started thinking
(07:30):
about this, I think he's right. What do you think.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I think that's rubbish?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
How could it be rubbish?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Well, because I do recall strikes while we were in government.
But the issue is we were able to resolve them
because we paid nurs with your mates in the unit.
Because I'll tell you what, those negotiations just as rigorous
or vigorous I should say, under labor as they are
under National, and you know, because we value workers and
(07:58):
the contributions they make, we were able to keep wages
up with inflation in some cases, like for nurses or
just in the health I can say nurses, midwives, allied
and technical staff and admin and clerical staff all got
pay equity settlements so that they'll be fairly paid as well.
So that is why workers have different outcomes under labor
(08:19):
because labor cares about wages. Now, they're more likely to
go on strike under national because National prioritizers giving tax
cuts rather than paying workers what they deserve.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Sorry, I disagree with you a little bit on that one.
I share Mike Butterick. Do the people the occupations like
teachers and nurses strike more and work harder to get
pay rises under a national led government than a labor
led government.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Well, look, I mean it's got that appearance, but I
mean I'll let the listeners join whatever dots they may
out of that. But I guess, Look, it's just disappointing that,
you know, the unions have gone forward to disruptive strike
action over bargaining and negotiation. The message would always be
get round the table and get round that bargaining table
(09:06):
before you do all of that and that doesn't seem
to have happened.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Well, I think that's a really responsible perspective. Actually, Mike,
the issue is that some of your ministers haven't been
so responsible. They've been really provocative, you know, Simmy and Brown,
really provoking the nurses. And I do think that's when
he takes actions like leaving messages for them on his
electorate office that say that they're putting patients at risk.
(09:31):
That's the sort of thing that really makes it hard
to reach a settlement, the sort of thing ministers should
restrain from.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Actually, I sure, what did you feel when you saw
the nurses turn their back on Simim Brown? I mean,
I don't I just think of a thing called respect.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Well, I agree respect is important in our public discourse,
and I don't think it's respectful when things happen like
people are shout or abusive. But they were showing their
opposition to how he was he was treating them, And
as I said, I believe Simon's Brown behavior is provocative.
(10:09):
They were responding to that. They weren't yelling, throwing anything
like that. I think that is a valid form of.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Political I didn't quite understand the word prerogative, provocative, prerocative, provocative.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
He's going around saying these things like you don't care
about your patients is what he's implying when the nurses
are taking action. And I think that's not a responsible
thing for a minister to do because it just makes
it harder to reach a settlement. Right, He doesn't need
to do that. He can be above this because actually
the parties to the bargaining are the nurses and the
(10:42):
Health New Zealand. But he's involving himself making these statements,
trying to up the ante on things, and unfortunately, I
think it'll backfire.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Mike, what did you think when you saw the nurses
turn their back on surmem Bran?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Yeah, I mean it's yeah, look, I mean I think, look,
it's really loud to have different sort of opinions in
terms of whether it's disrespectful or a lot of Let
other people make judgment. But again, you know Simin has
been clear. You know it does have also you choose
to have strike action, it does disrupt parents, it does
disrupt patients, and so it does impact the whole lot
(11:18):
of people and get round the bargaining table.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Politics Thursday, aishaviral Mike Butterick. The fallout continues from comments
made by Tapati Mari Empre Tuckerta Ferris after the Tamakiti
mikiro by election. Chris Hipkins has distanced himself from comments,
but still hasn't ruled out working with the party aieshah.
(11:41):
When will he rule out or will he not rule out?
Is that what we're going to have as a coalition
government if we vote for you guys next year.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I think Chris will have more to say about that
next year at some point. I don't know when that
will when that will be, but probably a bit too
early for everyone to be thinking about party and arrangements
at this stage. The focus for Labor is on growing
our vote and look where we've come from. We were
on twenty six percent at the election. We're now the
biggest party on the polling. So we've got to keep
(12:09):
that momentum up and then we'll have a different set
of options.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Do you reckon that you would get more support if
you ruled them out?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Well, it's interesting. I don't know the answer to that,
but it just reminds me that we've got to focus
on doing our job, keeping, on growing our vote, keeping
really focused on jobs, health and homes and re election
in the cost of living.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You see, my issue is that, you know, as much
as I really want to take you seriously, I look
at the side show and I say to myself, you know,
I respect and understand what they're doing, but they're just
an activist party.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Now.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Well, Labor has the opportunity to learn from Christopher Luckson's
week leadership and has mismanagement of the coalition dynamics. Let's
remember that he got into this situation because he didn't
rule Winston Peters out and Winston Peters's vote surge before
the election, and now he's stuck with Winston Peters and
(13:03):
Seymour having a fight about Palestine and all these sorts
of sorts of thing. So you know, we have a
different set of choices, and that's just a reminder to
us that we've got to grow our vote saying really
focused on the things that matters to kiwi's jobs, health
and homes and real action on the cost of living.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Mike Butterick, you are with the people of d wire Rapper.
You can't tell me that all this race stuff has
not been mentioned. I mean, everywhere I go it's mentioned
it's talked about. I mean, tell me what people are
saying to you.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Well, the first thing I would say now, because you know,
I'm incredibly privileged as my role as an electric MP too,
I get to meet different ethnic groups, you know, I
get invited into their families, into their lives, into their communities,
and I really feel for them listening to that rubbish.
You know, they are valued. They add a culture, they
(13:56):
add to our culture, add to a diversity, and as
I say, it's a really privileged position. And I think
the comments are discussing no time for that sort of
rubbish and that you don't condone them. But you know,
I hesitate to think what the coalition was to party
Mary Label will be like around the cabinet table. I mean,
are you going to have a well text, corporate corporate text,
(14:17):
or are you going to have interference in the democratic
right of their ethnic communities? I feel really sorry for them.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
What did you think of rail? Where he's today? Are
only media comments this week? I thought that the TV
one lady what was the name, Mikey did an exceptional
job by just hitting him with terreo. What do you think, Mike?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
No? And I'm sorry that guy, I didn't see that.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Okay, we've been working hard in Parliament this week.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Did you see it either? No, So he came out
and said because of today O speaking week that he
was only going to take questions in today when they
had some content, first time that anyone had seen them
for a while while this was all burning away. So
he's got all the all the reporters looked like they
didn't know what to say, and it upsteps Mikey and
bombombomb in today O and did a great job and
(15:04):
he had to answer it.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Well, I had a few occasions where I've seen the
really the results of decades of investment in Marty language
and Marty language journalism now means we have journalists who
can do that. You couldn't have done that twenty years ago.
And it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Very very cool. Must have been a joint. Now, if
you're naughty, you're going to jail. Okay, so you got
that one, Mike. I've told you that, I've given you
the warning. So I show you've given you the warning too.
If you're naughty, you're going to jail, because you're more
likely to be sent to jail following a confliction ever before.
According to the latest Ministry of Justice stats, fifteen percent
(15:43):
of people receiving confliction were sent to jail last year,
Ei Cheverril, Is this good for our society?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Well, it's certainly not good for the government books because
you're acall bil English and the last national government called
it a moral and fiscal failure. And I don't believe
people get rehabilitated when they are in prison, So it
just keeps social problems and defers them for for longer.
(16:11):
Met is out of control at the moment, and that's
doubled across the last year. So you know, approaches that
actually fix these problems in the community have to be
prioritized much more strongly than the government currently is.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And the issue that I did have with this bike
two is that there's five thousand people less people accessing
the ability to be helped with those drug you know situation,
and that's not a good point.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Oh look, I mean, we know crimes complex and the
factors that lead to people to make that choice. But
you know, we make no apologies about focusing on victims
first and foremost. You know, nobody wakes up and chooses
to be a victim. Somebody that you know is an offender.
(16:58):
They have had to make a choice, right, so we
sent a very clear message that has not been acceptable.
You know, serious crime was the roof ramways through the roof.
That is all coming down and in terms of so look,
we make no apologies for that, and a perfect world, no,
there would be no crime. But that's not where we're at.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You know what concerns me more than most is when
you look at the stats of the Western world, you know,
and you look at where we sit. You know, we
sit seventh or eighth in the world at one hundred
and ninety nine per hundred thousand people. Now that is
not I mean, Australia is way below us. You know,
we should look at our closest friends.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
This is the proportion of people we have in.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Jail, one hundred and ninety nine per hundred thousand. Australia
is one hundred and thirty three or something, way under us.
Where And the other thing, Mike, is that I would
love you to comment on, is that it's a worldwide
fact that the younger you send somebody to jail, the
worst the outcome.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, and look, I wouldn't dispute that. So you know,
there's two things there's there's the consequences for your crimes
that you commit today, and then there's that all complexity
about the drivers of crime and you know day are complex.
The social investment the concept you mentioned billingless. You know
we've stood up there Social Investment Agency that is about
going right through and trying to change the direction of
(18:21):
travel at an early stage in people's lives. And you
know that's going to take time and it's going to
you know, if we focus on those things. So there's
two parts to it as well.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Thank you very much for joining us. Mike, Mike Butter,
the National Wire Wrapper MP and Aishaverro whose Labour's health
and Wellington's issues reporters. Make sure you get along and
see well I share and I we'll talk about it
the next time you're on the show. Got a couple
of weeks off though, haven't.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
You recess hard? Will be working hard.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You will not be working hard. You'll be taking holidays.
Don't try Live on.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Me for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen
live to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine to
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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