Politics Thursday: Labour's Kieran McAnulty and National's Katie Nimon on tourst levy, toast scandal
September 4, 2024 • 23 mins
Will the increased $100 visitor levy reduce our tourism numbers, and was the removal of toast for new mums at Wellington Hospital a cost-cutting exercise?
Those were the questions for the politics panel this week, with Labour's housing and local government spokesman based in the Wairarapa Kieran McAnulty, and newcomer Katie Nimon, National MP for Napier.
The pair also discussed their reactions to the death of Kingi Tuheitia, the crowning of a new Maori Queen, and the NZTA's transport investment plan.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk Said b focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said Bin.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Can you make you joining us for politics Thursday this week?
Is one of our originals when we first started the show.
He was a regular on the show. Labour's Housing and
Local Government spokesperson Karen mcinnaughty, Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Good morning neck. How are you good?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Glad you remembered me? How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Oh, come on mate, it's good to be back.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Nice to have you on. You look at good by
the way Mary. Life's doing well for you.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, yeah, I'm enjoying myself.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Good on you. That's a good way to be a
National's for Napier Katie Nimman. Katie, welcome to the show.
You haven't been on before, so hopefully Karen and I
won't make it too much of a hard time for you.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Oh thanks, Matan, that's good to be here. And I'm
the key taker MP for National for Wellington Central as well,
so you know I spend half my time down in Wellington.
I like to consider myself a bit of a local.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Oh, good on you. Let's start with the new Maori monarchy. Now,
why Homo e T Poky T Parky, I've probably got
that completely wrong. What are your thoughts when when it
was announced, Karen.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, well, I just want to acknowledge the fact that
the tonguey for the Maori king is underway as we speak,
and I've just crowned Disorder is the new monarch. So
pretty monumental day for not only Maori but the country,
and so I just want to acknowledge that it's We've
got it on in the office here in the background,
and pretty pretty special to be able to witness. I
(02:06):
pleased TV and Z are showing it because this is
unique for us. Nowhere else in the world will we
see this, and please are giving it the recognition that
it deserves.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I agree, and I've been really I don't know, I've
sort of felt this whole tonguey quite strongly. Katie, what
are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, well, it's been pretty amazing. Actually this morning we
were just having a community clinic up in Marhir and
had it on on our phones watching and you know,
I'm want to sacial women seeing the Queenie be crowned
with a pretty special moment as well, But you know
it's huge and there's been people tripled from all over
New Zealand, you know, to mourn the loss of commit
(02:47):
to Hetier and now to celebrate the crowning of the
new Queen. And I think it's pretty special and New
Dylan really is getting behind it. It's you know, momentus.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Young Wahiti, what are your thoughts. Is it a good
move to put a twenty seven year old, you know,
young powerful woman in a place like that.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Absolutely, I mean I'd like to say in as a
thirty three year old woman who's been in leadership positions
at the young age. It's not the age, it's not
the gender, it's who you are in your spirit, your soul.
And she's going to do an amazing job. I have
no doubt. And you know, just look at Queen Elizabeth
and how young she was gown and how long she
and she reigned over the British empirement. It's pretty special
(03:28):
to see.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I don't think age has got anything to do
with it either, and it's great that you know, I
just felt that she was always going to get it
because she was in the media and saying the right
things and doing the right things. Karen, how sad were
you with the loss of King two he Tia.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Well, it should really be sad for everybody, because if
they weren't that aware of the significance of the King
y Tongue, anyone that's been watching the news or keeping
track of things this morning will realize how significant this
is and how deeply felt his passing is. But I
(04:06):
really have been quite touched by the respect that's been shown,
not just by the number of people around the country
that have made the effort, but for other Pacific nations
and other nations and organizations that has a connection to
the King Tounga that made the effort to go to
Dulwahir and pay their respects. I really like the selection
(04:30):
process for one of a better phrase of the new monarch.
It's not simply by a virtue of having to be
the first born. It's a selection process where all factors
are considered, and I think, actually my own personal opinion
is that adds more money to it because this is
a chosen person that those affiliated to the King E
(04:54):
Tongua and other leaders have selected to be their monarch,
and I think that's pretty special.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Very special.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay, let's talk about something that was a bit controversial
for us on this show, tourism Levy. Currently, all visitors
to u Z are not from Australia or some of
the Pacific island countries pay thirty five dollars at the border,
but the government's raising this to one hundred dollars, leading
to fears we might lose out on some tourists. Katie.
With tourist numbers still quite a lockdown. I think we're
(05:24):
about twenty or twenty two percent down compared to pre COVID.
Why on Earth is this a good idea?
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Yeah? Well, I actually have a background in tourism and
we've been talking about this for a long time as
an operator. You know, if you think about who's been
supportive of it submitting on it, ninety three percent of
people agreed that it should be increased in two fairs
of people set one hundred, and some people have been
saying more than that, you know. I think the point
is that if you see your value as less, other
people will choose and we've got to stand by what
(05:53):
it costs us to support and have in a great
experience for international visitors and being in the tourism sector. Previously,
we've had people say, hey, you've got some amazing soft infrastructures,
so great customer service, nice people, but your hard infrastructure
is and it's something that turns us off as a country,
you know, So we've got to invest in that. It
cost us money and it shouldn't be New Zealanders paying
(06:14):
for those things that are solely for the experience and visitors.
And so you know, we've got to back up what
it costs to put things out there for people and
make it a great experience. And this is a step
in the right direction. The one that says it's going
to impact our numbers is looking at their crystal ball,
because you just can't tell that.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Okay, and I get that, but I kind of concerned
that it's a supply and demand and we really want
more tourists coming care and do you reckon we're going
to lose tourists out of this.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
It's possible, but I think it's more likely that it
is the stage and the timing that could have an impact,
not the amount. So we brought the levy in. We
support the fact that it's increased. We would have liked
to have seen it staged a massive jump gets noticed.
This increase has been reported overseas by the likes of
(07:02):
the BBC, and that may give potential tour pause for thought.
Given that it is getting noticed overseas, a gradual increase
may not have had that impact. We're also concerned about
the timing and the sense that we've seen cuts to
the Department of Conservation. The tourist levy should not be
used to fill that gap. It should be used to
(07:24):
support those areas that do get a lot of tourists
but don't have the resources to fill the infrastructure. I'm
particularly thinking of our small councils that don't have a
high population but get a large number of visitors, and
so they need that support to be able to put
that infrastructure that was referred to that It could just
(07:45):
be simple as toilets, or it might be infrastructure that
allows for larger numbers of people to come and see
our beautiful landscapes.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Katie, do you think that we need backpackers as tourists
see I really get I find this problematic. I really
want everyone to come. I think backpackers are the future
of tourism, and they come when they're young and poor.
They'll come back when they're rich and famous.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Back you and I aligne in that view. I've always
been very supportive of backpackers. In fact, that was why
we're so upset with the decision to not allow freedom
camping with you know, the particular focus on vehicles in
vehicle types. You know, we don't want to target backpackers.
We want to open the doors to everybody, because, like
you say, backpackers, you know, they come in their early twenties,
(08:32):
sometimes their thirties, They come back in their forties, their fifties,
their sixties with more and more money every time some
of them and spend on that high value tourism and
they fall in love with New Zealand. But look, the
feedback we're getting is that it's not going to put
backpackers off. And a lot, a lot of backpackers are
said as one hundred dollars for the amount of time
they spend in New Zealand, which is longer than the
average tourist. If you add that out, you know, the
(08:53):
amount of days they spend tho dollars per day, that
really does even out. They spend as much as you know,
hundreds to thousands of dollars to get here and one
hundred dollars for the entire time they hear in what
they experience. It's a small price to pay, especially given
that backpackers tend not to pay big amounts for accommodation
and big amounts for you for some of their experiences
(09:15):
they get, they get a new deal and then they
act like a local and so that that dollar. Folks
figure that one hundred dollars is going to go a
long way.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Karen, do you think this is going to have any
effect whatsoever on our tourism? How do we actually get
it back up to that one hundred percent?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Well, look, it has the potential. I don't want to
make predictions that I don't know how it's going to go.
We'll just have to wait and see. What I do
want to see though, is an increased number, and we
need to be focused on continuing to promote New Zealand
as a wonderful place to visit, a wonderful place to come,
(09:50):
and where can our seasonal businesses as well. Ultimately, we
need to have an open door policy to anybody, whether
they are backpackers or what they the industry might deem
as a high value visitor here and write it up
the retail and hoigh hospitality scene has been hit incredibly hard.
We have a higher reliance on domestic tourism and when
(10:12):
Wellington struggles, we struggle because we rely on Wellingtonian's coming over.
With the number of job losses in the city and
the hesitancy for people to spend money that's using us
so we need to see as many people as possible
that are willing to come and support our provincial businesses
not only go to the cities, but also come to
the regions as well.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Transport Minisicilyan Brown revealed the New Zealand Transport Association's transport
plan for the next three years on Monday. There's nothing
new in there for Wellington, although we did learn cycle
ways and walkways budgets been half roughly to four hundred million,
and all the money for speed humps is absolutely gone.
Was this a reasonable move, Karen.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Well I'm concerned that the Wellington region, of course, of
whi's wided up as part of only gets ten percent
of what's been allocated. I'm also concerned that five billion
of the money that's been you will need to come
from councils. That has come as a shock and of
course of it has to come from councils, it has
to come from ratepayers, and rates are shaping up to
(11:16):
be the biggest issue facing households over the next few years.
So it was snuck in. And I also noticed that
there were reports this week that this actually turns out
when you look at it, there's a six billion dollar
hole when you look at projected revenue and projected expenditure.
So either they're going to have to find new ways
to tax people or they're not going to be able
to deliver what they promise. And I don't think that's.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Honest, Katie. We've been promised that spades are going to
be in the ground for the second Mount Victoria tunnel
in your first term. Is that still our promise?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Yeah, well that's the plan. And of course this is
the thing, you know, crencies there's nothing new. Well, you know,
we're actually the government that's going to make it happen.
It's the previous government could have talked about it, and
so I'm very excited to see that. And you know,
I think the most important thing is that you know,
this shared funding with councils is always the way it's worked,
you know, depending on the far rate finding assistance rate
(12:12):
that you get her counsel. It can be somewhere between
sort of forty nine percent or less that the councils
have to put up in match funding. That's if it's
a local project, but if it's something that's on the
state highway or you know, for example, road of National significance,
that's where it's funded by in DTA centrally. And so
that's just the way the structure works. But look, it's
very exciting and people just want to see the digger
(12:33):
turn up to site. You know, they want to see
the project start because you know, we can talk about
it forever. It makes people quite cynical when it never happens.
So I'm very excited to see how much we get
built in this in this next few years.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Katie, do you know what's happening with the other big
tunnel at this Beener But there's a working group working
on it now. Is this still talk about that that's
gone really quite the one from the Terrace tunnel going
right through to the other side of the tunnel. Do
you know much about that?
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Yeah? Well, look not from a technical point of view,
I mean obviously operationally and ZTA work on sort of
planning and design. But of course, you know, for us
the roads of national significance that have been prioritized Tony There,
Granada and across Valley Link take a mountain tunnel obviously,
and then upgrading the base of the reserve, which is
very necessary. And then of course we've got roads of
regional significance which is State Hiway to Malling and then
(13:20):
of course the stage two is to Hiway fifty eight
you know, of course, and then other improvements as well.
So those are the top of the list. I'm sure
there'll be work in the background on other things. You know,
sometimes things spent a little while in design phase before
they sort of get the tack off. But no, I
can't really speak to car tunnel and that element, Karen.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
We learned how much was being spent on the Mount
Victoria's second tunnel. Does labor actually support the second tunnel?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Well, we had other priorities that were identified by the region,
you know, that's the way in which to go about it. Obviously,
we indicated and funded the mailing and a couple of
other local projects because that was identified by the region
as a priority. Look if if the government can pay
for it and they may as well get on with it.
(14:11):
My serious concern is that they can't.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Do you support it?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Those go a whole is a massive Do you actually
support it personally? Personally? If it's going to work, let's
just get on with it. How long have we been
talking about improving infrastructure in Wellington? Probably about twenty thirty years.
See how long it took transmission Galley. They've talked about
that for one hundred years.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So you go to do You've still got to foot
in both camps. Sorry, Karen, You've still got to foot
in both camps. Do you personally support the idea of
a second Mount Victoria Tunnel or not?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Well, it is possible not to be opposed to something
and then also not get excited about it. You know.
This is the thing is I live in Marterden right,
and so if this is something that the Wellington Region prioritizes,
then that's great. But throughout our conversations with the region,
they were prioritizing other things, which is why we funded
those things.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I would have thought you spent a lot of time
in an aeroplane too, as I know you do, so
you'd need to get out to the airport too. So
second tunnel might increase the timing of that. Anyway, let's
move on. Outgoing Secretary Boss Carleen McLeish gave an interview
to The Herald this week and said the New Zealand
needs capital gains tax and we need to look at
changing the settings for superannuation, perhaps even raising the age
(15:21):
of entitlement. Karen, I want to start with you because
I actually think that someone's got to go with capital
gains tax. And why is it not labor?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, well you're not the only one signaling that a
capital gains tax is required in this country. The IMF
is also saying that we should have one where one
of an outlier in the world really only a very
small number I think it's three in the OESCD that
doesn't tax realized capital. It is essentially tax free profit.
(15:51):
And when we're looking around significant funding shortages across the country,
particularly an infrastructure, the burden that's being placed on ratepayers
and the cuts to health, and we need to fund
it somehow, and this is a reasonable question to pose,
the one that we're considering at the moment.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Katie. We're looking at superannuation right now, I mean we're
always looking at it. National has always been in favor
of raising the age of sixty seven. Eventually, does this
make sense? And is it just the New Zealand first
that's stopping you from doing that?
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Well, I mean, obviously we campaigned on it in twenty
twenty three elections, so I can't hide that, you know.
And it's certainly not going to affect people the way
that we proposed it until you know, twenty forty four
a for starters and anyone born before nineteen seventy nine
doesn't have to worry. But of course it is part
of our coalition agreement not to change the super grade,
so we respect that. So yeah, you're probably quite right,
(16:46):
and that's sort of the nature of going into coalition.
But you know, it's something that is obviously you know,
we've talked about it before. We've talked about it in
the number of times, and it certainly does that up.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Labour's actually considering its tax policy at the moment. Care
and how close are you? When are we going to
get what you're going to come out with for the
next election.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
We're running out of time, running out of time, Come on, mate,
don't know, you ken to know, And that's fair enough.
And what I've noticed It's quite interesting is that whenever
there has been a change of government, it's normally about
eighteen months before people actually start to ask questions about
the policy of the opposition. That's been brought forward this time,
(17:26):
which I think is an interesting development. There is growing
dissatisfaction and what the government's doing, so people are already
looking around and we're conscious of that. So there's a
chance we might be able to bring things forward. So
we've started earlier and we're in a conversation amongst members
at the moment, and the likes of Barbara Edmonds and
Dev Russell are going and talking to stakeholders about what
(17:47):
is the best way to make sure our tech system
is speared and sets it up to actually pay the
things that we need so that we don't have announcements
like the funding announcement with a six billion dollar gap,
that we actually can have the things that we need
in this country. So yeah, we're underway at the moment.
I'm not saying we're going to land either way because
there are a few options on the table, but it
(18:07):
is public knowledge that the capital Gains text is one
of the options that have been discussed.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Disgusted, Well, we've got that far. How's how this is
a story that none of us are going to believe
when I bring it up. But this story was quite
major and went around all the media. A slice of
toast for new mums immediately post birth was cut by
Wellington Hospital, who justified the decision by saying it wasn't utcerous,
but labor alleged it was cut to save money, but
(18:36):
the government denied this. In Health Minister Shane Ritty stepped
in very very quickly to bring toasts back on the menu. Now,
the next restaurant I open is going to have toast
and jam on it for pregnant mothers. That's going to
be my new thing. Katie, What on earth happened.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Here with a couple mile I don't forgure.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, I'll get the cup of bar that's hot chocolate.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Of course, of course, the opposition is going to stay
that it's because of cuts. That's not at all the case.
And look, as you say, Shane Ready has come in
very quickly to set his expectations here. You know, this
is very important to you know, new mums to have
some comfort food. And I mean I certainly haven't been
in that position myself, but I think comfort food is
(19:18):
the first thing I'd be going for, not something that's
you know, of a certain macronutrient density. You know. But
at the end of the day, if that's if that's
what the hospital decided they were going to do for
whatever reason. It's made it clear that our expectations is
that anything that is done within the health system to
meet the expectations as of the Minister. The most important
(19:38):
thing is that it doesn't affect the service that patients received,
and that's part of the expectation. There's people I know
that have never typically had jam on toast in a
cup of mile until they go and have a baby,
and that's the first thing that they want.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Katie, you can't tell me that you know somebody that's
never had toast and jam in a milo. Gosh, that's
a stable in New Zealand, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Ah, I can tell you I know somebody wouldn't favor it.
It's not the breakfast of choice.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Karen, Sure, Karen from the Wire Wrapper toasted jab at
a cup of bottle before you go to be but
you didn't quite have enough for dinner? Is nothing better?
Is it?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Well? Well, I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of things better,
but I've also had it a lot of times. I
mean the fact there's always a life of bread available
and there was some jam, peanut butter or margarine. And
if I was wondering a mum that I was hungry,
that's where she would point. So look, But the fact
is that the phrase there was used. If this was
cut for whatever reason, it's not whatever reason. It's because
(20:35):
the government has told Health New Zealand to find one
point five billion dollars from the health budget. That is
a fact, an indisputable fact. Now the Health Department gave
them a line, an options paper and yeah, they say
not from the front line, and then toasted, Dam and
Milo get cut and then they kick up a stink.
But this is the reality, is that we are looking
(20:56):
around the country. There are GP clinics that don't have
enough funding and so they're cutting services here and white
it up. The nurses are screaming out for help. There
are forty vacancies and they are not allowed to fill it.
And the government thinks New Zealanders are thick and will agree,
Oh no, it's not affecting the front line. That's exactly
what it is affecting You cannot make job cuts in
(21:21):
the back room and then have doctors making beds and
say it isn't affecting the front line. You can't have
forty vacancies that wided up a hospital that they're not
allowed to fill and say it's not affecting the front line.
The reason that this made the news and got people's
attention is because it's affecting brand new mums. And that's
(21:42):
why the minister stepped in, because he thought, if we
don't step in now, we've got ourselves a pr issue.
The fact is they might have solved this one, but
they're not doing anything to sell the others.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Katie, I'll let you respond to that, and then we've
got to go.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah. Well, the first thing I'd say is since we
did mental management make beds, you know the sin that's
going out from the opposition about what is being cut
and what is being pulled back. We are going line
by line through every thing we do and making sure
it's the most efficient and productive way, rather than adding
new textes like the opposition would do to make ourselves
able to spend more, that's just not what this is about.
(22:16):
And we expect the health system to be able to
operationalize what they do and justify everything that they do.
But to say that the pullback of toasters for nutritional reasons,
you know, or whether it is for savings, that is
not what we expected. So we have to make that clear.
But the Minister's not sitting there every day deciding where
every single dollar goes. The health system itself has got
to be responsible for the decisions it makes. We set
(22:38):
those expectations. We expect that it shouldn't impact the services
for the patients and that is exactly the message that
we sent out.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Karen McAnulty and Katie Nimman, thank you very much for
joining us this morning. Katie, I'll give you a little
bit of advice. Piece of tope. When you get home
from Parliament today and you're really really hungry, get a
piece of toast, put in the toast to spread it
with jam and a couple of teams. There ain't nothing better.
There ain't nothing better.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Hey, I love it, don't get me wrong. It's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Thank you both very much, and joy the rest of
the beautiful Wellington day.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks. It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk Said b focusing in on the issues
that matter politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said Bin.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Can you make you joining us for politics Thursday this week?
Is one of our originals when we first started the show.
He was a regular on the show. Labour's Housing and
Local Government spokesperson Karen mcinnaughty, Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Good morning neck. How are you good?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Glad you remembered me? How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Oh, come on mate, it's good to be back.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Nice to have you on. You look at good by
the way Mary. Life's doing well for you.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, yeah, I'm enjoying myself.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Good on you. That's a good way to be a
National's for Napier Katie Nimman. Katie, welcome to the show.
You haven't been on before, so hopefully Karen and I
won't make it too much of a hard time for you.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Oh thanks, Matan, that's good to be here. And I'm
the key taker MP for National for Wellington Central as well,
so you know I spend half my time down in Wellington.
I like to consider myself a bit of a local.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Oh, good on you. Let's start with the new Maori monarchy. Now,
why Homo e T Poky T Parky, I've probably got
that completely wrong. What are your thoughts when when it
was announced, Karen.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, well, I just want to acknowledge the fact that
the tonguey for the Maori king is underway as we speak,
and I've just crowned Disorder is the new monarch. So
pretty monumental day for not only Maori but the country,
and so I just want to acknowledge that it's We've
got it on in the office here in the background,
and pretty pretty special to be able to witness. I
(02:06):
pleased TV and Z are showing it because this is
unique for us. Nowhere else in the world will we
see this, and please are giving it the recognition that
it deserves.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I agree, and I've been really I don't know, I've
sort of felt this whole tonguey quite strongly. Katie, what
are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, well, it's been pretty amazing. Actually this morning we
were just having a community clinic up in Marhir and
had it on on our phones watching and you know,
I'm want to sacial women seeing the Queenie be crowned
with a pretty special moment as well, But you know
it's huge and there's been people tripled from all over
New Zealand, you know, to mourn the loss of commit
(02:47):
to Hetier and now to celebrate the crowning of the
new Queen. And I think it's pretty special and New
Dylan really is getting behind it. It's you know, momentus.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Young Wahiti, what are your thoughts. Is it a good
move to put a twenty seven year old, you know,
young powerful woman in a place like that.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Absolutely, I mean I'd like to say in as a
thirty three year old woman who's been in leadership positions
at the young age. It's not the age, it's not
the gender, it's who you are in your spirit, your soul.
And she's going to do an amazing job. I have
no doubt. And you know, just look at Queen Elizabeth
and how young she was gown and how long she
and she reigned over the British empirement. It's pretty special
(03:28):
to see.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I don't think age has got anything to do
with it either, and it's great that you know, I
just felt that she was always going to get it
because she was in the media and saying the right
things and doing the right things. Karen, how sad were
you with the loss of King two he Tia.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Well, it should really be sad for everybody, because if
they weren't that aware of the significance of the King
y Tongue, anyone that's been watching the news or keeping
track of things this morning will realize how significant this
is and how deeply felt his passing is. But I
(04:06):
really have been quite touched by the respect that's been shown,
not just by the number of people around the country
that have made the effort, but for other Pacific nations
and other nations and organizations that has a connection to
the King Tounga that made the effort to go to
Dulwahir and pay their respects. I really like the selection
(04:30):
process for one of a better phrase of the new monarch.
It's not simply by a virtue of having to be
the first born. It's a selection process where all factors
are considered, and I think, actually my own personal opinion
is that adds more money to it because this is
a chosen person that those affiliated to the King E
(04:54):
Tongua and other leaders have selected to be their monarch,
and I think that's pretty special.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Very special.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay, let's talk about something that was a bit controversial
for us on this show, tourism Levy. Currently, all visitors
to u Z are not from Australia or some of
the Pacific island countries pay thirty five dollars at the border,
but the government's raising this to one hundred dollars, leading
to fears we might lose out on some tourists. Katie.
With tourist numbers still quite a lockdown. I think we're
(05:24):
about twenty or twenty two percent down compared to pre COVID.
Why on Earth is this a good idea?
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Yeah? Well, I actually have a background in tourism and
we've been talking about this for a long time as
an operator. You know, if you think about who's been
supportive of it submitting on it, ninety three percent of
people agreed that it should be increased in two fairs
of people set one hundred, and some people have been
saying more than that, you know. I think the point
is that if you see your value as less, other
people will choose and we've got to stand by what
(05:53):
it costs us to support and have in a great
experience for international visitors and being in the tourism sector. Previously,
we've had people say, hey, you've got some amazing soft infrastructures,
so great customer service, nice people, but your hard infrastructure
is and it's something that turns us off as a country,
you know, So we've got to invest in that. It
cost us money and it shouldn't be New Zealanders paying
(06:14):
for those things that are solely for the experience and visitors.
And so you know, we've got to back up what
it costs to put things out there for people and
make it a great experience. And this is a step
in the right direction. The one that says it's going
to impact our numbers is looking at their crystal ball,
because you just can't tell that.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Okay, and I get that, but I kind of concerned
that it's a supply and demand and we really want
more tourists coming care and do you reckon we're going
to lose tourists out of this.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
It's possible, but I think it's more likely that it
is the stage and the timing that could have an impact,
not the amount. So we brought the levy in. We
support the fact that it's increased. We would have liked
to have seen it staged a massive jump gets noticed.
This increase has been reported overseas by the likes of
(07:02):
the BBC, and that may give potential tour pause for thought.
Given that it is getting noticed overseas, a gradual increase
may not have had that impact. We're also concerned about
the timing and the sense that we've seen cuts to
the Department of Conservation. The tourist levy should not be
used to fill that gap. It should be used to
(07:24):
support those areas that do get a lot of tourists
but don't have the resources to fill the infrastructure. I'm
particularly thinking of our small councils that don't have a
high population but get a large number of visitors, and
so they need that support to be able to put
that infrastructure that was referred to that It could just
(07:45):
be simple as toilets, or it might be infrastructure that
allows for larger numbers of people to come and see
our beautiful landscapes.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Katie, do you think that we need backpackers as tourists
see I really get I find this problematic. I really
want everyone to come. I think backpackers are the future
of tourism, and they come when they're young and poor.
They'll come back when they're rich and famous.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Back you and I aligne in that view. I've always
been very supportive of backpackers. In fact, that was why
we're so upset with the decision to not allow freedom
camping with you know, the particular focus on vehicles in
vehicle types. You know, we don't want to target backpackers.
We want to open the doors to everybody, because, like
you say, backpackers, you know, they come in their early twenties,
(08:32):
sometimes their thirties, They come back in their forties, their fifties,
their sixties with more and more money every time some
of them and spend on that high value tourism and
they fall in love with New Zealand. But look, the
feedback we're getting is that it's not going to put
backpackers off. And a lot, a lot of backpackers are
said as one hundred dollars for the amount of time
they spend in New Zealand, which is longer than the
average tourist. If you add that out, you know, the
(08:53):
amount of days they spend tho dollars per day, that
really does even out. They spend as much as you know,
hundreds to thousands of dollars to get here and one
hundred dollars for the entire time they hear in what
they experience. It's a small price to pay, especially given
that backpackers tend not to pay big amounts for accommodation
and big amounts for you for some of their experiences
(09:15):
they get, they get a new deal and then they
act like a local and so that that dollar. Folks
figure that one hundred dollars is going to go a
long way.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Karen, do you think this is going to have any
effect whatsoever on our tourism? How do we actually get
it back up to that one hundred percent?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Well, look, it has the potential. I don't want to
make predictions that I don't know how it's going to go.
We'll just have to wait and see. What I do
want to see though, is an increased number, and we
need to be focused on continuing to promote New Zealand
as a wonderful place to visit, a wonderful place to come,
(09:50):
and where can our seasonal businesses as well. Ultimately, we
need to have an open door policy to anybody, whether
they are backpackers or what they the industry might deem
as a high value visitor here and write it up
the retail and hoigh hospitality scene has been hit incredibly hard.
We have a higher reliance on domestic tourism and when
(10:12):
Wellington struggles, we struggle because we rely on Wellingtonian's coming over.
With the number of job losses in the city and
the hesitancy for people to spend money that's using us
so we need to see as many people as possible
that are willing to come and support our provincial businesses
not only go to the cities, but also come to
the regions as well.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Transport Minisicilyan Brown revealed the New Zealand Transport Association's transport
plan for the next three years on Monday. There's nothing
new in there for Wellington, although we did learn cycle
ways and walkways budgets been half roughly to four hundred million,
and all the money for speed humps is absolutely gone.
Was this a reasonable move, Karen.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Well I'm concerned that the Wellington region, of course, of
whi's wided up as part of only gets ten percent
of what's been allocated. I'm also concerned that five billion
of the money that's been you will need to come
from councils. That has come as a shock and of
course of it has to come from councils, it has
to come from ratepayers, and rates are shaping up to
(11:16):
be the biggest issue facing households over the next few years.
So it was snuck in. And I also noticed that
there were reports this week that this actually turns out
when you look at it, there's a six billion dollar
hole when you look at projected revenue and projected expenditure.
So either they're going to have to find new ways
to tax people or they're not going to be able
to deliver what they promise. And I don't think that's.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Honest, Katie. We've been promised that spades are going to
be in the ground for the second Mount Victoria tunnel
in your first term. Is that still our promise?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Yeah, well that's the plan. And of course this is
the thing, you know, crencies there's nothing new. Well, you know,
we're actually the government that's going to make it happen.
It's the previous government could have talked about it, and
so I'm very excited to see that. And you know,
I think the most important thing is that you know,
this shared funding with councils is always the way it's worked,
you know, depending on the far rate finding assistance rate
(12:12):
that you get her counsel. It can be somewhere between
sort of forty nine percent or less that the councils
have to put up in match funding. That's if it's
a local project, but if it's something that's on the
state highway or you know, for example, road of National significance,
that's where it's funded by in DTA centrally. And so
that's just the way the structure works. But look, it's
very exciting and people just want to see the digger
(12:33):
turn up to site. You know, they want to see
the project start because you know, we can talk about
it forever. It makes people quite cynical when it never happens.
So I'm very excited to see how much we get
built in this in this next few years.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Katie, do you know what's happening with the other big
tunnel at this Beener But there's a working group working
on it now. Is this still talk about that that's
gone really quite the one from the Terrace tunnel going
right through to the other side of the tunnel. Do
you know much about that?
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Yeah? Well, look not from a technical point of view,
I mean obviously operationally and ZTA work on sort of
planning and design. But of course, you know, for us
the roads of national significance that have been prioritized Tony There,
Granada and across Valley Link take a mountain tunnel obviously,
and then upgrading the base of the reserve, which is
very necessary. And then of course we've got roads of
regional significance which is State Hiway to Malling and then
(13:20):
of course the stage two is to Hiway fifty eight
you know, of course, and then other improvements as well.
So those are the top of the list. I'm sure
there'll be work in the background on other things. You know,
sometimes things spent a little while in design phase before
they sort of get the tack off. But no, I
can't really speak to car tunnel and that element, Karen.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
We learned how much was being spent on the Mount
Victoria's second tunnel. Does labor actually support the second tunnel?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Well, we had other priorities that were identified by the region,
you know, that's the way in which to go about it. Obviously,
we indicated and funded the mailing and a couple of
other local projects because that was identified by the region
as a priority. Look if if the government can pay
for it and they may as well get on with it.
(14:11):
My serious concern is that they can't.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Do you support it?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Those go a whole is a massive Do you actually
support it personally? Personally? If it's going to work, let's
just get on with it. How long have we been
talking about improving infrastructure in Wellington? Probably about twenty thirty years.
See how long it took transmission Galley. They've talked about
that for one hundred years.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So you go to do You've still got to foot
in both camps. Sorry, Karen, You've still got to foot
in both camps. Do you personally support the idea of
a second Mount Victoria Tunnel or not?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Well, it is possible not to be opposed to something
and then also not get excited about it. You know.
This is the thing is I live in Marterden right,
and so if this is something that the Wellington Region prioritizes,
then that's great. But throughout our conversations with the region,
they were prioritizing other things, which is why we funded
those things.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I would have thought you spent a lot of time
in an aeroplane too, as I know you do, so
you'd need to get out to the airport too. So
second tunnel might increase the timing of that. Anyway, let's
move on. Outgoing Secretary Boss Carleen McLeish gave an interview
to The Herald this week and said the New Zealand
needs capital gains tax and we need to look at
changing the settings for superannuation, perhaps even raising the age
(15:21):
of entitlement. Karen, I want to start with you because
I actually think that someone's got to go with capital
gains tax. And why is it not labor?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, well you're not the only one signaling that a
capital gains tax is required in this country. The IMF
is also saying that we should have one where one
of an outlier in the world really only a very
small number I think it's three in the OESCD that
doesn't tax realized capital. It is essentially tax free profit.
(15:51):
And when we're looking around significant funding shortages across the country,
particularly an infrastructure, the burden that's being placed on ratepayers
and the cuts to health, and we need to fund
it somehow, and this is a reasonable question to pose,
the one that we're considering at the moment.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Katie. We're looking at superannuation right now, I mean we're
always looking at it. National has always been in favor
of raising the age of sixty seven. Eventually, does this
make sense? And is it just the New Zealand first
that's stopping you from doing that?
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Well, I mean, obviously we campaigned on it in twenty
twenty three elections, so I can't hide that, you know.
And it's certainly not going to affect people the way
that we proposed it until you know, twenty forty four
a for starters and anyone born before nineteen seventy nine
doesn't have to worry. But of course it is part
of our coalition agreement not to change the super grade,
so we respect that. So yeah, you're probably quite right,
(16:46):
and that's sort of the nature of going into coalition.
But you know, it's something that is obviously you know,
we've talked about it before. We've talked about it in
the number of times, and it certainly does that up.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Labour's actually considering its tax policy at the moment. Care
and how close are you? When are we going to
get what you're going to come out with for the
next election.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
We're running out of time, running out of time, Come on, mate,
don't know, you ken to know, And that's fair enough.
And what I've noticed It's quite interesting is that whenever
there has been a change of government, it's normally about
eighteen months before people actually start to ask questions about
the policy of the opposition. That's been brought forward this time,
(17:26):
which I think is an interesting development. There is growing
dissatisfaction and what the government's doing, so people are already
looking around and we're conscious of that. So there's a
chance we might be able to bring things forward. So
we've started earlier and we're in a conversation amongst members
at the moment, and the likes of Barbara Edmonds and
Dev Russell are going and talking to stakeholders about what
(17:47):
is the best way to make sure our tech system
is speared and sets it up to actually pay the
things that we need so that we don't have announcements
like the funding announcement with a six billion dollar gap,
that we actually can have the things that we need
in this country. So yeah, we're underway at the moment.
I'm not saying we're going to land either way because
there are a few options on the table, but it
(18:07):
is public knowledge that the capital Gains text is one
of the options that have been discussed.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Disgusted, Well, we've got that far. How's how this is
a story that none of us are going to believe
when I bring it up. But this story was quite
major and went around all the media. A slice of
toast for new mums immediately post birth was cut by
Wellington Hospital, who justified the decision by saying it wasn't utcerous,
but labor alleged it was cut to save money, but
(18:36):
the government denied this. In Health Minister Shane Ritty stepped
in very very quickly to bring toasts back on the menu. Now,
the next restaurant I open is going to have toast
and jam on it for pregnant mothers. That's going to
be my new thing. Katie, What on earth happened.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Here with a couple mile I don't forgure.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, I'll get the cup of bar that's hot chocolate.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Of course, of course, the opposition is going to stay
that it's because of cuts. That's not at all the case.
And look, as you say, Shane Ready has come in
very quickly to set his expectations here. You know, this
is very important to you know, new mums to have
some comfort food. And I mean I certainly haven't been
in that position myself, but I think comfort food is
(19:18):
the first thing I'd be going for, not something that's
you know, of a certain macronutrient density. You know. But
at the end of the day, if that's if that's
what the hospital decided they were going to do for
whatever reason. It's made it clear that our expectations is
that anything that is done within the health system to
meet the expectations as of the Minister. The most important
(19:38):
thing is that it doesn't affect the service that patients received,
and that's part of the expectation. There's people I know
that have never typically had jam on toast in a
cup of mile until they go and have a baby,
and that's the first thing that they want.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Katie, you can't tell me that you know somebody that's
never had toast and jam in a milo. Gosh, that's
a stable in New Zealand, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Ah, I can tell you I know somebody wouldn't favor it.
It's not the breakfast of choice.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Karen, Sure, Karen from the Wire Wrapper toasted jab at
a cup of bottle before you go to be but
you didn't quite have enough for dinner? Is nothing better?
Is it?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Well? Well, I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of things better,
but I've also had it a lot of times. I
mean the fact there's always a life of bread available
and there was some jam, peanut butter or margarine. And
if I was wondering a mum that I was hungry,
that's where she would point. So look, But the fact
is that the phrase there was used. If this was
cut for whatever reason, it's not whatever reason. It's because
(20:35):
the government has told Health New Zealand to find one
point five billion dollars from the health budget. That is
a fact, an indisputable fact. Now the Health Department gave
them a line, an options paper and yeah, they say
not from the front line, and then toasted, Dam and
Milo get cut and then they kick up a stink.
But this is the reality, is that we are looking
(20:56):
around the country. There are GP clinics that don't have
enough funding and so they're cutting services here and white
it up. The nurses are screaming out for help. There
are forty vacancies and they are not allowed to fill it.
And the government thinks New Zealanders are thick and will agree,
Oh no, it's not affecting the front line. That's exactly
what it is affecting You cannot make job cuts in
(21:21):
the back room and then have doctors making beds and
say it isn't affecting the front line. You can't have
forty vacancies that wided up a hospital that they're not
allowed to fill and say it's not affecting the front line.
The reason that this made the news and got people's
attention is because it's affecting brand new mums. And that's
(21:42):
why the minister stepped in, because he thought, if we
don't step in now, we've got ourselves a pr issue.
The fact is they might have solved this one, but
they're not doing anything to sell the others.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Katie, I'll let you respond to that, and then we've
got to go.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah. Well, the first thing I'd say is since we
did mental management make beds, you know the sin that's
going out from the opposition about what is being cut
and what is being pulled back. We are going line
by line through every thing we do and making sure
it's the most efficient and productive way, rather than adding
new textes like the opposition would do to make ourselves
able to spend more, that's just not what this is about.
(22:16):
And we expect the health system to be able to
operationalize what they do and justify everything that they do.
But to say that the pullback of toasters for nutritional reasons,
you know, or whether it is for savings, that is
not what we expected. So we have to make that clear.
But the Minister's not sitting there every day deciding where
every single dollar goes. The health system itself has got
to be responsible for the decisions it makes. We set
(22:38):
those expectations. We expect that it shouldn't impact the services
for the patients and that is exactly the message that
we sent out.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Karen McAnulty and Katie Nimman, thank you very much for
joining us this morning. Katie, I'll give you a little
bit of advice. Piece of tope. When you get home
from Parliament today and you're really really hungry, get a
piece of toast, put in the toast to spread it
with jam and a couple of teams. There ain't nothing better.
There ain't nothing better.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Hey, I love it, don't get me wrong. It's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Thank you both very much, and joy the rest of
the beautiful Wellington day.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks. It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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