September 3, 2025 • 20 mins
On Politics Thursday, Nick Mills was joined by Labour's Police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and National's Wairarapa MP Mike Butterick.
They discussed former Prime Ministers Sir John Key and Helen Clark attending a military parade hosted by China to commemorate 80 years since the eight-year Japanese invasion of China in 1937.
Also on the agenda was the latest report on the hold-ups in the justice system, New Zealand's involvement in the Paris Climate agreement and whether the new exemption on the foreign home buyer ban will trigger a rise in all house prices.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talks ed
B Shine.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back at seven minutes past eleven. We have Politics Thursday,
as we always do on a Thursday. This morning, we're
joined by Labors, Police and Jobs and Income spokesperson Jenny Anderson.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Good morning, Ginny, Good morning Neck.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
How was your holiday?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It wasn't a holiday. I was working quite hardh Well.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
You were overly for g how can that not be
a holiday?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yes, it was good.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
It was good.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It was good to hear about understanding climate change from
a Pacific perspective. That was really interesting. And also learn
about sustainable fishing, so how much that impacts on your
lives when he's not sustainable fishing going on?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Interesting?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
So yeah, it was good. My morning. Say, I'm cheered
up now by being on your show because I've had
a bleak morning. I tried to get to Hamilton very early,
up at five am to catch nearly flights for the
coronation of the Mardy Queen and fog and Hamilton had
us all the way there and tuned back to Wellington,
So so you stuck with me. I'm here. Did you
(01:24):
that didn't make it there?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Did you get a coffee on the trip?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I didn't. I was napping and then I felt that
that the plane swerved and I woke up and I
realized we turned back id coffee when I got back
to Wellington.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Okay, well, we've got you on the show and we're
lucky to do that. A national wire wrapper in p
Mike Butterick, Good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Mike, Ye, morning morning Jenny.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
How are we morning? How was How was your time off? Mike?
You got back in the back in the wire wrapper.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
I'm in the literal the MP. There's no time off
and I can assure you that. So I've been out
busy obviously, been at a couple of Harker this morning,
South Warreth at a coup of Hawkers. So that was
going great down huge ground there actually.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Great, good on you. Now. For the first two hours
of Wellington Mornings this morning, we had a topic that
both Adam and I discussed and said we really should
discuss this, and we did and we had record amount
of calls in two hours, record amount of texts and
two hours than the show's ever had before, so there's
obviously a hell of a lot of interest in it.
(02:25):
Former Prime Ministers Sir John Key and Helen Clark attended
the Chinese military parade to commemorate the eightieth anniversary of
the end of World War Two. They shook hands with
China's President Shijiping and attended with the likes of Vladimir
Putin Ginny, is this a good look or a bad
look for ex prime ministers of that profile attendingness?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Well, I think when they're attending in the capacity when
they're no longer holding existing officers, that makes it a
bit distant. So it's difficult for government or even opposition
to sort of say yes. And I mean, it's an
incredibly important relationship for New Zealand to have with China.
We know that forty percent their trade goes there, so
having those relationships in place is important. But yeah, I
(03:13):
guess I say, I was quite surprised it's even both
there and both so intricately involved. But you know, if
it helps us in our economy and our trade relations
by being represented, then then that have to go some
way of strengthening those relationships.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Genny, you've got a sort of a foot in both
camps there. Say, you're saying that it's important, but now
whether they should have such a high profile, so what
is what? Where are you on it?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Well, I mean, I'm not going to say that they
shouldn't be there, that's not I have no position to
be able to say that. And they don't hold their
represented the New Zealanders. They're free people. They can turn
up and go and represent New Zealand there, So they
don't hold an official role in terms of an office
in New Zealand, so they're free to do as they wish.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Mike, did the government make the right decision not to attend?
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Look, you know we've had officials different events. But I agree,
I agree with what Jenny says. You know, they are
both attending in a private capacity. You know, those are
really questions for them. But China is a very very
important country in regards to our export destination, you know,
and it was an event that mark the ot the
years of World War Two?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Was it really event? But Mike, was it really an
event to showcase that? I mean? Or is that just
an excuse to showcase their power? No?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Look, it is.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
About you know the World War it was you know,
it was a it was a huge, huge world event,
and you know, really is important to commemorate the end
of that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, Jenny, have you got anything further to add to that,
because we've had a lot of people up in arms
about them going.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
You know, I have received messages that from people who
similarly had thought it wasn't. I've seen both sides, so
others think that it wasn't a great look. That's you know,
they're not happy with with that happening. But when there's
no official representation from the it makes it really difficult
for people like me or might to be able to say,
you know, this is why we did it, because we
(05:12):
didn't you know, we didn't take a position or put
someone there. But I can say after coming back from
the Pacific that those tensions in between those geopolitics that
we see happening with China and America, New Zealand snack
being in the middle of that, so we need to
be really cautious about what we do and that will
continue to play out over the following years.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Mike, do you know or that whether you know John
Key actually spoke to Christopher Luxan about attending. Do you
know whether there was any official sort of chat about it. No,
look that I don't know.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
No, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Okay. The Chief Justice paints a worrying picture of our
justice system. The courts remain under stress, and serious offending
like murder and manslaughter makeup are seventy six percent of
all new trials in the High Court. Ginny, you would
have had some involvement with this over your period of
time in government. What's the answer to improve the speed
(06:07):
and time and efficiency of the courts.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Well, the government's attitude towards the courts is the first
place to start. That this government has taken incredibly negative
view of the judiciary. When you have ministers like Brook
van Velden basically saying she's appointing people to the Er,
which is a judicial body, expecting them to make decisions
(06:32):
that favor employers, your employee. She said that, she's on
record and she's said Judith Collins weighed in and tell
her off to say you can't say that because it's
not right. So the very way we treat the judiciary
in this country under this government has been remarkably declined.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
I would have to.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Say, explain, because you confuse me.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So Brook van Velden is the Minister for Employment Relations.
She oversees the Employment Relations Authority. There are people who
are asked to make decisions. She's recently come and said,
the last lot of peace people on here. They think
that money grows on trees. They're out of here. I've
made some new appointees and they're going to be making
some decisions where it's more favorable for those employers. We're
(07:16):
hoping to see those sorts of decisions. Now, that's really important, Nick,
because what you've got there is a political person interfering
with the independence of the judiciary and so undermined undermines
the whole judiciary.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Okay, I'm not sure how that is going to help
speed up the decisions being made in high courts and
getting people through the course. But X High Courts judge
to Ron Young wants shorter prison sentences Mike, which he
says will get young people out of the system earlier.
Is this what we need shorter sentences?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
No, what we need to sentences that are fit for purpose.
And obviously it's the judges that make that decision. But look,
we know the justice systems underpreciate, Nick, and you know
the reports with most of Goldsmiths at the moment we
have In February, I think it was we pushed legislation
to put another district court judge into the mix, and
there's a bill before the House that will increase the
(08:15):
number of High Court judges by two and the Minister
he's looking to extend that by another three. But yeah,
I mean, look, it's not our it's not in our
wheelhouse to make comments. And what a what are.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You under your government? The average time now for a
high court trial is seventeen days. That's up nearly twenty
percent in the last eighteen months.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yep, yep, and so lot. We know it's under pressure,
and that's one of our key areas of focus is
to improve their court timeliness.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
How can they do it? Why can't they modernize it up,
get rid of the paper trailer.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I'm sure, I'm sure gram in place snack. We had
a program in place. They've had a program place called
tel Matama, which was not only modernizing the courts but
getting them to flow better and work better. All of
that work in the trial areas was showing extremely good outcomes.
When the government, this new government came in national froze
all of that work and stop the funding so there's
(09:13):
no progress. So the huge program of work to modernize
and make the courts more efficient and responsive was stopped
by this government. And while they've introduced longer sentences and
more prosecutions, that's continuing to gum up the court system
without having a real plan in place to make things
flow smoother. So essentially they can't have it both ways.
(09:34):
You can't not fund the court and fitting and lock
up more people because it will just end up in
a mess.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Mike, we had were sitting waiting, aren't.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
We, in terms of we're sitting waiting for.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You to speed things up and get them moving and
readjust I mean it's not it's ridiculous at the way
it is at the moment.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Oh look, we know it's un deppressionate and you know,
so I say one of the careers of focus is
to improve that court timliness. You know, we've edited high
court judges. There's a bill before that's going to add
more in.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
You know, there's four thousand people actually waiting for trials
in New Zealand. Four thousand.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, huge amount on remand yeah, people locked up without
a trial.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Our romand population is ridiculous and it's great. It was
about two thousand. It doubled over not a long period
of time. And that's essentially because and the other thing
Nick that sometimes police officers will tell me they go
to court maybe fourteen or fifteen times, just to have
it put off for another date, another date. So some
of those inefficiencies of coming back again and again is
(10:38):
the fact that our system is really broken and the
long term plans we hid in place, like reframe for police,
like child Madama, for the courts. National shelved all of
those and said no, we're just going to be tough
on crime, but they haven't actually looked at solutions to
break the cycle of crime and make the actual system
work more efficiently.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Politics Thursday would labor, police and Jobs and Income spokesperson
Ginny Anderson and Nationals wire rapper MP Mike Butterick. Mike,
I want to start with you on this one. David
Seymour says we're getting a raw deal on the Paris
Climate Agreement and should pull out. Christopher Luxon does not
want to do that, saying it would punish farmers. I mean,
you're a farmer. Give us the farmer's thoughts on this.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Yeah, and the Prime Minister is absolutely correct. You know,
we are trading nation eighty two. Two and a half
per cent of our export income comes from our food
and fiber sector, and it's not quite sixty billion dollars.
We are in global agreements and look some of example,
some of these free trade agreements for example, and they
(11:41):
are our most valuable markets. Our beef in twenty twenty
four was worth twenty one thousand dollars a ton into
the EU. It's worth about thirteen thousand dollars a ton
into the UK. Both of those markets have climate narrative
in them. Versus China is a seven thousand dollars So
(12:03):
this is a significant come back.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
To being a farmer, come back to being a farmer.
Do the farmers support the agreement.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Well, I'm sure there will be a mix of views.
It's not the Paris Accord per se. It is about
the way that we have historically been trying to reach
those targets you. Under the previous government, a large part
of that was a forestation allowing carbon administer offset. We
are being in farm farm to forest conversions on our
most productive land. That has been the challenge. We campaigned
(12:35):
on it. In fact, we're the only parties that campaigned
on it, and we are doing something about that and
that will be backdated to the fourth of December last year.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
See my limited knowledge on this. The farmers hate the
idea of the Paris Climate Agreement.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
It is it is the way we have been trying
to reach those targets being the challenge and that has
previously been a forestation which has seen a significant reduction,
you know, in land available for farming. But we are
doing something about that. But what is that risk? For
example that eu FDA from May to May, bearing in
(13:13):
mind it does have climate narrative in it, that that
ended up with an extra billion dollars in New Zealander's
pockets from that free trade agreement.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Can I just to Mike? Can I just come to Jenny? Jenny?
Clearly the Caralition government's not on the same page here.
We had your leader on the show. He's still strongly
for it. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, hundred sent I mean, but when Christopher Luxen is
saying that pulling out of the Paris Agreement would be
the quickest way to hurt thew Zealand farmers, but you've
got act the Deputy Prime Minister saying that it's rubbish
and they're going to pull out of it. Well, that's a
real problem for New Zealand's economy looking forward when the
Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister have opposing views
(13:59):
on our pathway forward. This is a government who has
reopened coal mining on conservation land, undone, all the good
work on the clean Card discount, and now we're off
track to meet a lot of those climate goals because
they've scrapped three billion dollars worth of emissions reduction in
climate Brazilian's work. So we've got our work cut out
for ourselves when the two top guys can't even agree
(14:20):
on where we're going.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Let's talk about foreign investment. Foreigners who invest five million
dollars into New Zealand now can buy a home with
a minimum with a minimum value of five million dollars. Mike,
are we selling out? Are we just basically saying to foreigners,
if you've got a big enough check, you can come
welcome in.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
No we're not, No, absolutely not. There's been I think
since that visa category open, I think there's been about
to go over three hundred people interested in wanting to
come here. I mean, we should be proud of the
fact that people want to come here and invest. If
all of those and that since April it's about one
point eight billion, you know, we've got the situation where
(15:00):
people that want to come invest a large amount of
money in this country aren't able to buy a house
to live.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Ginny, I've never got this idea, but I'm going to
put it to you that labor really can. Can they
actually show us hard evidence that this will actually increase
the values of war home values and the lower end
of first home buyers and stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, first of all, rolling out the red carpet to
wealthy people to come here, while in the same breath
scrapping the first home grant for keyweeds makes it tough
up for New Zealanders to buy their first time. So
if you were in that range, if you're lucky enough
to be a New Zealand person who's buying in that
five million dollar range, if you've suddenly got a whole
(15:43):
lot of buyers from off shore competing with you, you'll
have to go down to the next range and be
in the one to two million dollar range. And so
that has a flow on effect down in the property
market that those prices will increase, so it impacts people
in the hut. We've got seven hundred thousand dollars and
now all those prices are up to nine hundred thousand
or a million dollars, so it has a flow on effect.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
No hard evidence, Genny, there is no heart evans this
is going to effect.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
There is hard evidence the Treasury. I'd like to finish. Please,
Treasury gave advice that wealthy that the more wealthy purchasing
pushes up house prices, and that was advice that was
received by the Treasury. So that is their view that
it will push up prices.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
By the way I explained, so the first home buyers
are going to affect the five million dollar home sale.
It doesn't wash for me.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
It not only does it not only does that, it
skews the development. It puts all incentivization on new property
build up that top end because there's more money to
be made there and not in home games.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Jinny, I just want to quickly because I know we're
running out of time. I want to ask you about
the Tamaki makar or Bar election because Labor candidate Penny
Hernadi has been asked regularly about his future leadership, but
and He says he backs to be one hundred percent,
but he doesn't rule out that he wants to go
at the leadership and being the first Maldi prime minister.
(17:00):
Is there some rumblings going on that we don't know
about and don't say no.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
News to me are so I haven't heard those. I
heard the Marti Party candidates on Q and A and
that's when it started. But the election going on right
now is the by electing Tomakey Makoto, and it's going
to be pie all the way. I think the reason
why he's so good and he's being couted for bigger
things is because he gets it. He gets the fact
(17:26):
that the best outcomes for Mardi as when Mardi and
Parkier work together, and that's also the best outcomes for
all New Zealand. And having somebody who can articulate that
to Mardi and Pakia shows a real pathway forward for
our country. And I think he's excellent being able.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
To do so yes or no, future leader of the
Labor guardy and the future prime minister yes or no.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I haven't asked him even myself, so I can't answer
on his behalf said I reckon.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Where they smoked this virus. I noticed Pennie didn't say
no when he's asked about becoming leader of NA.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Make a better prime minister than that.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
He said he had just get the by election out
of the way first. Where the smoke fire?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I reckon, I'm not disagree with you, and he several
twice I saw that he got asked the question directly
and he wouldn't say it.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Yeah, all's not well in the labor camp. I think no,
Juny might be going to have a go.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
You're going to have correct Jenny, dream On, dream On.
I think you've got more leadership worries in your own
ship here. You real trouble growing here.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I mean, be a little bit honest here, Mike. I
mean you know, if there's trouble in Paradise, there's going
to be trouble and in your guys group as well.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
No, no, we are there's no story here. Nick. We've
got a very.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Awy to the UK and he's one of his mates.
Right was it rubbing shoulders with potentially the east Prime
Minister of New Zealand. That was a good little writer
from one of your friends.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
The Prime Minister is still incredibly focused on on fixing
what's broken in this country. It's sortlyt the mess that you.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Fellow lest Sure, I'm sure he's I'm sure he's very focused,
but he'd should be looking at the rear vision burer
a little bit, should they.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
No, Absolutely, we're just looking in the mirror, the mirror
behind him.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Everyone's one hundred percent behind them until the fish and
chips come out.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I would make it better, and he's made it worse.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, I can't. I can't wait for the fish and
chip meeting, if you know what I mean, where a
few of them sit down and have fish and chips
and decide. I see, I keep hearing. I keep hearing
Chris Bishop. I keep hearing Chris Bishop. Now, I don't
know where you know. I'm just saying that's the name
I keep hearing. Okay, have you heard that, Jenny.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
We hear, we hear lots of things. Yeah, we hear
lots of different things. But as those the largest, the
latest pole that came out, which is the epsoft pole
that has them really going backwards on the cost of
loving that said, I worry right now New Zealanders are
really suffering under increased crisis, and that is what the
(20:04):
government's not making it better on they're making just worse.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Yeah, and acknowledging that it's tough. Jenny and I think
we've got the Labor government to think from that. You
guys lit the fire, you're still holding the petrol cans
and you want to blame us. We're just having a
spoonful of medicine that you guys fished up.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Gosh, I've got to go. I've got to go.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
See that talks a lot about personal responsibility that don't
take any for themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I'm going to uh, I'm going to stop here, the
bell's going.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
The ding dog go back into your corners. Thank you
both so much, Labor, Labour's Police and Jobs and Come
spokesperson Ginny Anderson and Nationals wire ATBMP Mike Butterick, thank
you both very much.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Appreciate you coming on the show.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks There'd be Wellington from nine to am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talks ed
B Shine.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back at seven minutes past eleven. We have Politics Thursday,
as we always do on a Thursday. This morning, we're
joined by Labors, Police and Jobs and Income spokesperson Jenny Anderson.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Good morning, Ginny, Good morning Neck.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
How was your holiday?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It wasn't a holiday. I was working quite hardh Well.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
You were overly for g how can that not be
a holiday?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yes, it was good.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
It was good.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It was good to hear about understanding climate change from
a Pacific perspective. That was really interesting. And also learn
about sustainable fishing, so how much that impacts on your
lives when he's not sustainable fishing going on?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Interesting?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
So yeah, it was good. My morning. Say, I'm cheered
up now by being on your show because I've had
a bleak morning. I tried to get to Hamilton very early,
up at five am to catch nearly flights for the
coronation of the Mardy Queen and fog and Hamilton had
us all the way there and tuned back to Wellington,
So so you stuck with me. I'm here. Did you
(01:24):
that didn't make it there?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Did you get a coffee on the trip?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I didn't. I was napping and then I felt that
that the plane swerved and I woke up and I
realized we turned back id coffee when I got back
to Wellington.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Okay, well, we've got you on the show and we're
lucky to do that. A national wire wrapper in p
Mike Butterick, Good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Mike, Ye, morning morning Jenny.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
How are we morning? How was How was your time off? Mike?
You got back in the back in the wire wrapper.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
I'm in the literal the MP. There's no time off
and I can assure you that. So I've been out
busy obviously, been at a couple of Harker this morning,
South Warreth at a coup of Hawkers. So that was
going great down huge ground there actually.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Great, good on you. Now. For the first two hours
of Wellington Mornings this morning, we had a topic that
both Adam and I discussed and said we really should
discuss this, and we did and we had record amount
of calls in two hours, record amount of texts and
two hours than the show's ever had before, so there's
obviously a hell of a lot of interest in it.
(02:25):
Former Prime Ministers Sir John Key and Helen Clark attended
the Chinese military parade to commemorate the eightieth anniversary of
the end of World War Two. They shook hands with
China's President Shijiping and attended with the likes of Vladimir
Putin Ginny, is this a good look or a bad
look for ex prime ministers of that profile attendingness?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Well, I think when they're attending in the capacity when
they're no longer holding existing officers, that makes it a
bit distant. So it's difficult for government or even opposition
to sort of say yes. And I mean, it's an
incredibly important relationship for New Zealand to have with China.
We know that forty percent their trade goes there, so
having those relationships in place is important. But yeah, I
(03:13):
guess I say, I was quite surprised it's even both
there and both so intricately involved. But you know, if
it helps us in our economy and our trade relations
by being represented, then then that have to go some
way of strengthening those relationships.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Genny, you've got a sort of a foot in both
camps there. Say, you're saying that it's important, but now
whether they should have such a high profile, so what
is what? Where are you on it?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Well, I mean, I'm not going to say that they
shouldn't be there, that's not I have no position to
be able to say that. And they don't hold their
represented the New Zealanders. They're free people. They can turn
up and go and represent New Zealand there, So they
don't hold an official role in terms of an office
in New Zealand, so they're free to do as they wish.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Mike, did the government make the right decision not to attend?
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Look, you know we've had officials different events. But I agree,
I agree with what Jenny says. You know, they are
both attending in a private capacity. You know, those are
really questions for them. But China is a very very
important country in regards to our export destination, you know,
and it was an event that mark the ot the
years of World War Two?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Was it really event? But Mike, was it really an
event to showcase that? I mean? Or is that just
an excuse to showcase their power? No?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Look, it is.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
About you know the World War it was you know,
it was a it was a huge, huge world event,
and you know, really is important to commemorate the end
of that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, Jenny, have you got anything further to add to that,
because we've had a lot of people up in arms
about them going.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
You know, I have received messages that from people who
similarly had thought it wasn't. I've seen both sides, so
others think that it wasn't a great look. That's you know,
they're not happy with with that happening. But when there's
no official representation from the it makes it really difficult
for people like me or might to be able to say,
you know, this is why we did it, because we
(05:12):
didn't you know, we didn't take a position or put
someone there. But I can say after coming back from
the Pacific that those tensions in between those geopolitics that
we see happening with China and America, New Zealand snack
being in the middle of that, so we need to
be really cautious about what we do and that will
continue to play out over the following years.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Mike, do you know or that whether you know John
Key actually spoke to Christopher Luxan about attending. Do you
know whether there was any official sort of chat about it. No,
look that I don't know.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
No, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Okay. The Chief Justice paints a worrying picture of our
justice system. The courts remain under stress, and serious offending
like murder and manslaughter makeup are seventy six percent of
all new trials in the High Court. Ginny, you would
have had some involvement with this over your period of
time in government. What's the answer to improve the speed
(06:07):
and time and efficiency of the courts.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Well, the government's attitude towards the courts is the first
place to start. That this government has taken incredibly negative
view of the judiciary. When you have ministers like Brook
van Velden basically saying she's appointing people to the Er,
which is a judicial body, expecting them to make decisions
(06:32):
that favor employers, your employee. She said that, she's on
record and she's said Judith Collins weighed in and tell
her off to say you can't say that because it's
not right. So the very way we treat the judiciary
in this country under this government has been remarkably declined.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
I would have to.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Say, explain, because you confuse me.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So Brook van Velden is the Minister for Employment Relations.
She oversees the Employment Relations Authority. There are people who
are asked to make decisions. She's recently come and said,
the last lot of peace people on here. They think
that money grows on trees. They're out of here. I've
made some new appointees and they're going to be making
some decisions where it's more favorable for those employers. We're
(07:16):
hoping to see those sorts of decisions. Now, that's really important, Nick,
because what you've got there is a political person interfering
with the independence of the judiciary and so undermined undermines
the whole judiciary.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Okay, I'm not sure how that is going to help
speed up the decisions being made in high courts and
getting people through the course. But X High Courts judge
to Ron Young wants shorter prison sentences Mike, which he
says will get young people out of the system earlier.
Is this what we need shorter sentences?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
No, what we need to sentences that are fit for purpose.
And obviously it's the judges that make that decision. But look,
we know the justice systems underpreciate, Nick, and you know
the reports with most of Goldsmiths at the moment we
have In February, I think it was we pushed legislation
to put another district court judge into the mix, and
there's a bill before the House that will increase the
(08:15):
number of High Court judges by two and the Minister
he's looking to extend that by another three. But yeah,
I mean, look, it's not our it's not in our
wheelhouse to make comments. And what a what are.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You under your government? The average time now for a
high court trial is seventeen days. That's up nearly twenty
percent in the last eighteen months.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yep, yep, and so lot. We know it's under pressure,
and that's one of our key areas of focus is
to improve their court timeliness.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
How can they do it? Why can't they modernize it up,
get rid of the paper trailer.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I'm sure, I'm sure gram in place snack. We had
a program in place. They've had a program place called
tel Matama, which was not only modernizing the courts but
getting them to flow better and work better. All of
that work in the trial areas was showing extremely good outcomes.
When the government, this new government came in national froze
all of that work and stop the funding so there's
(09:13):
no progress. So the huge program of work to modernize
and make the courts more efficient and responsive was stopped
by this government. And while they've introduced longer sentences and
more prosecutions, that's continuing to gum up the court system
without having a real plan in place to make things
flow smoother. So essentially they can't have it both ways.
(09:34):
You can't not fund the court and fitting and lock
up more people because it will just end up in
a mess.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Mike, we had were sitting waiting, aren't.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
We, in terms of we're sitting waiting for.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You to speed things up and get them moving and
readjust I mean it's not it's ridiculous at the way
it is at the moment.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Oh look, we know it's un deppressionate and you know,
so I say one of the careers of focus is
to improve that court timliness. You know, we've edited high
court judges. There's a bill before that's going to add
more in.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
You know, there's four thousand people actually waiting for trials
in New Zealand. Four thousand.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, huge amount on remand yeah, people locked up without
a trial.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Our romand population is ridiculous and it's great. It was
about two thousand. It doubled over not a long period
of time. And that's essentially because and the other thing
Nick that sometimes police officers will tell me they go
to court maybe fourteen or fifteen times, just to have
it put off for another date, another date. So some
of those inefficiencies of coming back again and again is
(10:38):
the fact that our system is really broken and the
long term plans we hid in place, like reframe for police,
like child Madama, for the courts. National shelved all of
those and said no, we're just going to be tough
on crime, but they haven't actually looked at solutions to
break the cycle of crime and make the actual system
work more efficiently.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Politics Thursday would labor, police and Jobs and Income spokesperson
Ginny Anderson and Nationals wire rapper MP Mike Butterick. Mike,
I want to start with you on this one. David
Seymour says we're getting a raw deal on the Paris
Climate Agreement and should pull out. Christopher Luxon does not
want to do that, saying it would punish farmers. I mean,
you're a farmer. Give us the farmer's thoughts on this.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Yeah, and the Prime Minister is absolutely correct. You know,
we are trading nation eighty two. Two and a half
per cent of our export income comes from our food
and fiber sector, and it's not quite sixty billion dollars.
We are in global agreements and look some of example,
some of these free trade agreements for example, and they
(11:41):
are our most valuable markets. Our beef in twenty twenty
four was worth twenty one thousand dollars a ton into
the EU. It's worth about thirteen thousand dollars a ton
into the UK. Both of those markets have climate narrative
in them. Versus China is a seven thousand dollars So
(12:03):
this is a significant come back.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
To being a farmer, come back to being a farmer.
Do the farmers support the agreement.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Well, I'm sure there will be a mix of views.
It's not the Paris Accord per se. It is about
the way that we have historically been trying to reach
those targets you. Under the previous government, a large part
of that was a forestation allowing carbon administer offset. We
are being in farm farm to forest conversions on our
most productive land. That has been the challenge. We campaigned
(12:35):
on it. In fact, we're the only parties that campaigned
on it, and we are doing something about that and
that will be backdated to the fourth of December last year.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
See my limited knowledge on this. The farmers hate the
idea of the Paris Climate Agreement.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
It is it is the way we have been trying
to reach those targets being the challenge and that has
previously been a forestation which has seen a significant reduction,
you know, in land available for farming. But we are
doing something about that. But what is that risk? For
example that eu FDA from May to May, bearing in
(13:13):
mind it does have climate narrative in it, that that
ended up with an extra billion dollars in New Zealander's
pockets from that free trade agreement.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Can I just to Mike? Can I just come to Jenny? Jenny?
Clearly the Caralition government's not on the same page here.
We had your leader on the show. He's still strongly
for it. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, hundred sent I mean, but when Christopher Luxen is
saying that pulling out of the Paris Agreement would be
the quickest way to hurt thew Zealand farmers, but you've
got act the Deputy Prime Minister saying that it's rubbish
and they're going to pull out of it. Well, that's a
real problem for New Zealand's economy looking forward when the
Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister have opposing views
(13:59):
on our pathway forward. This is a government who has
reopened coal mining on conservation land, undone, all the good
work on the clean Card discount, and now we're off
track to meet a lot of those climate goals because
they've scrapped three billion dollars worth of emissions reduction in
climate Brazilian's work. So we've got our work cut out
for ourselves when the two top guys can't even agree
(14:20):
on where we're going.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Let's talk about foreign investment. Foreigners who invest five million
dollars into New Zealand now can buy a home with
a minimum with a minimum value of five million dollars. Mike,
are we selling out? Are we just basically saying to foreigners,
if you've got a big enough check, you can come
welcome in.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
No we're not, No, absolutely not. There's been I think
since that visa category open, I think there's been about
to go over three hundred people interested in wanting to
come here. I mean, we should be proud of the
fact that people want to come here and invest. If
all of those and that since April it's about one
point eight billion, you know, we've got the situation where
(15:00):
people that want to come invest a large amount of
money in this country aren't able to buy a house
to live.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Ginny, I've never got this idea, but I'm going to
put it to you that labor really can. Can they
actually show us hard evidence that this will actually increase
the values of war home values and the lower end
of first home buyers and stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, first of all, rolling out the red carpet to
wealthy people to come here, while in the same breath
scrapping the first home grant for keyweeds makes it tough
up for New Zealanders to buy their first time. So
if you were in that range, if you're lucky enough
to be a New Zealand person who's buying in that
five million dollar range, if you've suddenly got a whole
(15:43):
lot of buyers from off shore competing with you, you'll
have to go down to the next range and be
in the one to two million dollar range. And so
that has a flow on effect down in the property
market that those prices will increase, so it impacts people
in the hut. We've got seven hundred thousand dollars and
now all those prices are up to nine hundred thousand
or a million dollars, so it has a flow on effect.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
No hard evidence, Genny, there is no heart evans this
is going to effect.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
There is hard evidence the Treasury. I'd like to finish. Please,
Treasury gave advice that wealthy that the more wealthy purchasing
pushes up house prices, and that was advice that was
received by the Treasury. So that is their view that
it will push up prices.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
By the way I explained, so the first home buyers
are going to affect the five million dollar home sale.
It doesn't wash for me.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
It not only does it not only does that, it
skews the development. It puts all incentivization on new property
build up that top end because there's more money to
be made there and not in home games.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Jinny, I just want to quickly because I know we're
running out of time. I want to ask you about
the Tamaki makar or Bar election because Labor candidate Penny
Hernadi has been asked regularly about his future leadership, but
and He says he backs to be one hundred percent,
but he doesn't rule out that he wants to go
at the leadership and being the first Maldi prime minister.
(17:00):
Is there some rumblings going on that we don't know
about and don't say no.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
News to me are so I haven't heard those. I
heard the Marti Party candidates on Q and A and
that's when it started. But the election going on right
now is the by electing Tomakey Makoto, and it's going
to be pie all the way. I think the reason
why he's so good and he's being couted for bigger
things is because he gets it. He gets the fact
(17:26):
that the best outcomes for Mardi as when Mardi and
Parkier work together, and that's also the best outcomes for
all New Zealand. And having somebody who can articulate that
to Mardi and Pakia shows a real pathway forward for
our country. And I think he's excellent being able.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
To do so yes or no, future leader of the
Labor guardy and the future prime minister yes or no.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I haven't asked him even myself, so I can't answer
on his behalf said I reckon.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Where they smoked this virus. I noticed Pennie didn't say
no when he's asked about becoming leader of NA.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Make a better prime minister than that.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
He said he had just get the by election out
of the way first. Where the smoke fire?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I reckon, I'm not disagree with you, and he several
twice I saw that he got asked the question directly
and he wouldn't say it.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Yeah, all's not well in the labor camp. I think no,
Juny might be going to have a go.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
You're going to have correct Jenny, dream On, dream On.
I think you've got more leadership worries in your own
ship here. You real trouble growing here.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I mean, be a little bit honest here, Mike. I
mean you know, if there's trouble in Paradise, there's going
to be trouble and in your guys group as well.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
No, no, we are there's no story here. Nick. We've
got a very.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Awy to the UK and he's one of his mates.
Right was it rubbing shoulders with potentially the east Prime
Minister of New Zealand. That was a good little writer
from one of your friends.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
The Prime Minister is still incredibly focused on on fixing
what's broken in this country. It's sortlyt the mess that you.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Fellow lest Sure, I'm sure he's I'm sure he's very focused,
but he'd should be looking at the rear vision burer
a little bit, should they.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
No, Absolutely, we're just looking in the mirror, the mirror
behind him.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Everyone's one hundred percent behind them until the fish and
chips come out.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I would make it better, and he's made it worse.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, I can't. I can't wait for the fish and
chip meeting, if you know what I mean, where a
few of them sit down and have fish and chips
and decide. I see, I keep hearing. I keep hearing
Chris Bishop. I keep hearing Chris Bishop. Now, I don't
know where you know. I'm just saying that's the name
I keep hearing. Okay, have you heard that, Jenny.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
We hear, we hear lots of things. Yeah, we hear
lots of different things. But as those the largest, the
latest pole that came out, which is the epsoft pole
that has them really going backwards on the cost of
loving that said, I worry right now New Zealanders are
really suffering under increased crisis, and that is what the
(20:04):
government's not making it better on they're making just worse.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Yeah, and acknowledging that it's tough. Jenny and I think
we've got the Labor government to think from that. You
guys lit the fire, you're still holding the petrol cans
and you want to blame us. We're just having a
spoonful of medicine that you guys fished up.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Gosh, I've got to go. I've got to go.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
See that talks a lot about personal responsibility that don't
take any for themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I'm going to uh, I'm going to stop here, the
bell's going.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
The ding dog go back into your corners. Thank you
both so much, Labor, Labour's Police and Jobs and Come
spokesperson Ginny Anderson and Nationals wire ATBMP Mike Butterick, thank
you both very much.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Appreciate you coming on the show.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks There'd be Wellington from nine to am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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