December 17, 2025 • 23 mins
Nick Mills is joined in studio by National Otaki MP Tim Costley and Labour MP and spokesperson for Health and Wellington Issues Ayesha Verrall.
We get into the Christmas spirit with our guests, what’s their plans for their Christmas break and highlight from the year. As well as getting into the political issues from the week like the latest GDP announcement, surplus announcement, Health NZ efficiency targets, M-CERT merger plus the Avatar premiere and James Cameron's concerns about the future of the series.
Is Wellington at risk of losing Weta? What will the government do to help?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It'd be.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Focusing in on the issues that matter politics Thursday on
Wellington Mornings News Talks.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
It be.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
He's checking it twice.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
He's going to find out who's a naughty on that,
and son Claus is coming to tell he knows if
you are sleeping, he knows if you're away, he knows
if you've been bad of its beginnes See, you better
(00:51):
watch out, you better.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Grace tried to tell me that you could sing. She
forgot that. I've run bars and entertainment venues for forty years.
I know who can sing and who can't sing. I mean,
but you, but but but your piano playing was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I give you that.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I give you your piano playing was beautiful, But I
don't know about the vocals.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
I wouldn't give myself the piano either. But what you
missed is that the whole point of that look, I'm
not saying it of a whole own, but the whole
point was trying to prove the point. This is an
important point.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I just interrupt you before you interest. I've got I've
got to let people know who you are because I mean,
I know that you're will famous in your own mind.
But right now, ladies and jentlemen, it's politics. Thursday's Christmas
Week were a bit loose. Tim Costley, national MP for
O Tachi and II Scheveril Labor MP and spokesperson for
Health and willing to issues. Now we know our listeners
(01:47):
know who you are. You can carry on explain well.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
The whole point was I had had a conversation with
our local firefighters. I was suggesting Top Guns of Christmas movie.
They were suggesting. It wasn't if you watch the full video.
The whole point was if you played the top Gun
theme music, it matches Santa Claus coming with.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
The hell did that come from?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Look, it was a lot week. It was urgency. It
was two in the morning. I was tired. I was
a little bit bored with voting on amendments. This is
what happens. This is the risk.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
Sounds like AI generated social content to me.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
No, AI could not generate that. This is called having
a creative brain. Will leave the AI to angler Larry,
this was.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Just speaking of creation. What's that you're wearing.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
It's my Christmas jumper. It's a little bit warm.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
And by the way, I got photographed that jumper because
I know we're not able to talk about anything that
happens last night when with your with your social media,
with your media and politicians night did you go?
Speaker 5 (02:40):
I did not. I went home. I watched a James
Bond movie with my daughter and went to bed halfway through. Okay, well,
I got a best end of year party of it.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I got a text at ten thirty. Now ten thirty
might not seem late for many people, but when you
get up at four thirty in the morning, it's late.
Of Tim Costly in that jumper.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
No, it wasn't. I don't know how blind you are.
That was a David Adamburgh. It's cold jumper. This is
a root off the Red Knows Rainy a jumper.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
How many Christmas jumpers do you?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Well, I've got more than that. So we've got We've
got this one for example. I mean that one's quite
good at lights up?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Is Tim Costly taking his jumper off? Words and you're
touching my lump?
Speaker 5 (03:22):
I mean, what terrible choices I'm facing here?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Can we get serious? Now? It is?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
And then we get because I'm getting quite warm.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
He's got a third Christmas.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Jumper comes to a radio show with a visual gag.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah, I don't know, you know what it's. It's all
part of the bean. So this is is the key.
You've look three cameras today and.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I'll tell you what I really enjoyed was the fact
that when he lifted his jumper up to take me,
Eybone takes a jump or a T shirt off. You
get that, You get to see the bed drift right
politely look the other way.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
I'm very concerned about his monstery Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Right, I'll save the rest for later. I'll save the later.
People at home don't know what's going on. It's Christmas,
let's go.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I'm getting told off now by the producer for not
talking about and the big bosses are coming in there. Okay,
We've got told right, I shut GBT you GGDP.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
Chos domestic product.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Look.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
Overall, while the government will probably seek to make something
of the figure today because they're desperate for good news,
New Zealanders won't be feeling the good news yet. We've
still got businesses closing, unemployment and over the last year,
still negative growth for the country. Go back to the
beginning of this year. Christopher Luxon said this year was
(04:43):
all about growth, growth, growth, and yet well the promised
forecasts haven't eventuated because of the bad decisions this government
has taken. So look, let's hope that twenty twenty six
is is better than the year we had. We all
hope for that. But there's a lot of New Zealanders
rolling into this Christmas and it feels an awful lot
like the last Christmas. When they promise things will get better.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
We do feel that it has got better, but the
facts are the facts. I mean, not even A and
Z economists this morning said it was going to be
one point one. They thought extreme it could be one.
So Tomas is a big win.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Yeah, it is, and I think we always knew that.
Probably the last figure figures were a little bit negative,
and we you know the experience if you go and
talk to people now there is a genuine positivity. Business
confidence is the highest it's been in basically a decade.
The number of first home buyers is at a record
highest than fifteen years. Actually, yes, it has been tough,
(05:38):
and I'm not denying that at all. It would have
been much tougher had we not made the tough decisions
we had to and remember Labor posed pretty much all
of those. They post tax cuts for the hard working kiwis.
They are posed measures that would save money and make
these figures a lot better than they would have been
without them. So yes, yes, let's acknowledge that it's been tough.
I genuinely think the next year looks positive, and we
(05:58):
don't want to talk ourselves out of that. But also
I'm said to hear, what hold different if we did it?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
There?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Hold on? I mean the fact that you think it's
going to be all fantastic next year. I mean the
surplus has been delayed now to two thousand and thirty. Yeah,
you know this is the third time, you know, And
and we'll have another excuse next year and it'll be
put off board. So there is some still very serious
facts that we've got to cover.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yes, absolutely, and I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying
is we have saved eleven billion dollars every year thanks
to the measures our government has taken. Labor have opposed
pretty much all of those. What is the alternative this? This,
this deficit would be pushed out years and years without this,
So what's the alternative? The track we were on under Chrishipkins,
(06:41):
which was more debt, more borrowing, high inflation prices racing up.
You know this is.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I've got to get Echer in here. What would Barbara
Evens do different? Because she's not actually saying what she.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Do well, we wouldn't have taken the decisions this government took.
Their obsession with those eleven billion dollars of cats has
what is what has hurt Wellingtonians. That's why we've seen
fewer people in paid job in Wellington's two thousand public
service jobs. Those cuts then flew on to the rest
of our economy and we have total of five thousand
(07:13):
jobs gone from the Wellington economy because of cuts to services,
because of cuts to capital projects that have all been
delayed while the government spent eighteen months deciding what they
were going to do and all our construction workers went
to Australia. That is now going to constrain our ability.
Broth I will feel to that point about what we
(07:34):
would do well. We have started announcing our policy and
one of them that I was involved in developing is
the commitment to three free GP visits. We are going
to take real action on the cost of living that
will make a meaningful difference in people's pockets. And that's
half a billion dollars that is available to New Zealanders
to spend in other parts of the economy because of
that policy. So labor will have a different approach to things,
(07:57):
something that gets New Zealanders spending and growing the economy again.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
But that can't be the answer, right, She's just said
we're going to spend more. Spending more is what got
us into this mess. We've just talked about the fact
that they're worried that deficits been extended by one year,
and yet their solution is to spend more. What save
money and get us out.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Your cuts have hurt the city and that is absolutely
undeniable to undern.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
They're about sixteen thousand more public service jobs than there
were when the last national government finished. So you know,
you can't just artificially inflate and sustain an economy. You
actually have to create jobs that create growth, that create productivity.
What's playing to deal with deficits?
Speaker 5 (08:39):
You're contradicting yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
How not how by dropping jobs are you doing there?
Speaker 4 (08:44):
No, no, that you're talking about public public service jobs,
which is what the city better by doing that, because
that is saving money that would put us into deficit,
or the labor approach, which is borrow more, drive up inflation,
drive up interest rates, get us into the situation. We
are making the tough decisions by prioritizing.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
Our Did you deliberately cut public service spending leading to
few people spending in retail, few people spending in hospitality
and five thousand jobs lost in our city? I think
that's what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
And there's not a lot of And here we go
labor trying to play out the same stuff again, which
is all about we.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
But they are facts, Sich years presenting. They are, absolutely,
yes they are.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
And what created that six years of borrowing an extra
one hundred and sixty billion, We are spending ten or
nine point point a little bit billion a year to
pay off just the interest, just the interest in the
money that labor borrowed that would buy us a transmission
gully and a hospital and a few public service jobs
and more construction all that. But we're not. We're paying down,
(09:49):
but you are the borrowing of.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Laboring more than what they did.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Because we have I just said, we have to pay
nine billion dollars in debt every year, every every week,
the Treasury going writer a check for five hundred million
dollars to borrow and overseas bonds. Because we are left
in such a terrible situation. That's why it's important.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
I just think that's it's cold comfort to people in
Wellington who have lost their jobs, has their businesses.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Closed because alternative. Yeah, well we have because you said
you're going to get to it, and so what is it?
How are you going to get us out of deficit
and then to suit places enough, you weren't listening to
the camera. Now that's here today, But how are you
going to do that without borrowing more, without creating more
debt and still spend all this magic money that you're promising.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Well, as you would have heard, we announced this year
a capital gains tax on a residential.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Property eleven billion dollars a year.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
That we have saved your agenda, Well, we will.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Saving money to take a break.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I'm going to take a break, so I need to
move on. I need to get to other topics. We
only have a limited time span and I want to
move on. Insert quite a good name. I didn't like
it at first, but now I'm liking it. We'll combine
housing Transport, environment ministries. AI, sure, what do you think?
Too big, too strong, too many?
Speaker 5 (11:05):
We've seen this before or last time was National was
in government when Steven Joyce merged various economic ministries to
make Ministry of Business and Immigration and Employment MBIE and
I you know, don't really see that that's been a
particularly beneficial.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Merger, something like six thousand staff too or something else.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
Yeah, yeah, so it's huge and whatever benefits you might
have got by bringing people together, you've also got a big,
unwieldy organization as well. So you know, I'm not certain
this is going to deliver the benefits claimed, but it
well mean job cuts and once again that puts Wellingtonians
back in a really tough position because all of those
(11:47):
agencies that are being merged are headquartered here here.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Can I just quickly get your thoughts though, because you know,
there's a lot of feeling and we did an hour
on this on the show that we have too many portfolios.
Ireland has fifteen and we have eighty one spread across
twenty three ministrants. I mean that's a hell of a lot,
isn't it.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Well yeah, maybe it is, but is what's the benefit
of reducing them? And where you could do other things
like develop ways of the organizations working better together.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Well, Tim will tell us what the benefits are because
he's obviously been to all the briefings. What is this
MSERT going to do? Is it going to cut stuff?
Is it going to make it more efficient?
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Yeah, it's about taking a sort of more holistic and
aligned approach to some of the big challenges. When you
think about something like housing reform and getting houses built
in this country for people live in. Actually that spans
across all of these agencies, so that the district and
city plans sit with the Ministry of Environment. You have
(12:47):
the infrastructure stuff, which sits with Ministry of Housing and
Urban Development, it sits within DEA and the local government space,
it sits within Transport. Actually bringing all of those functions
together means we take one instead of having all these
different silo spread around the different ministries, we have one
clear responsibility for delivering this working in a unified way.
(13:09):
It's not the mega mega ministry that MB is. I mean,
if you look at the total staff that work in
that space now, it's thirteen hundred, it's not six thousand,
and it's and it's too early to say what the
total number will be. It certainly won't be bigger than
that because there'll be some efficiency in that. But once
the new chief executives announced in the in the first
(13:29):
part of the net next year that that'll be one
of their jobs will be setting up exactly what the
structure looks like.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
How many job losses. No one's telling us how many
job losses, And we're doing it for efficiency, So efficiency
means job losses, you know, it's.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
It's I don't think efficiency is the number one driver.
I think it's genuinely about having an aligned approach that says, actually,
these are big challenges to New Zealand and we've we've
heard about housing probably for ten years being a big challenge,
and we've made some good steps in the last couple
of years. But if we want to tackle this head on,
we actually need to take a sensible approach and rather
than having you know, three four five ministries working on
this in different ways, let's put them all together to
(14:02):
tackle this with a really clear goal and a really
clear responsibility for that.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Last weekend, Wellington showed itself off to being the most
amazing city in the world when we had the Avatar
premiere but director James Cameron says he's worried that there'll
be more film losses and job losses as the sector
dwindles due to many complications, including Trump's tariffs. Tim, what
(14:28):
are your thoughts on this? Will the government keep handing
out the tariffs? Is the movie industry as important to
your government as it was to labor?
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, Look, we all remember the scenes of John Key's
government starting these sort of initiatives to get movie into there.
We've got a fantastic, world class industry in New Zealand
and I think Saturday Night showed that off. I missed
my invite, but it looked fantastic in the photos I saw,
and it's great to have another world premiere here in Wellington.
You know, we've got some world class production studios. I
(14:57):
do think the industry is facing some challenges with it,
you know, moves to streaming services and it's a lot
easier for competitors to get in to make low budget
movies now. But we're committed to it, which is why
we announced the extra five hundred and something million to
go towards the rebate scheme. We've got that increase up.
(15:17):
It's twenty percent rebate but you can actually get twenty
five percent if you're investing in the talent in this country.
And we've lowered the threshold dramatically this year. It used
to be about twenty five million that you had to
be spending on your movie to get that. We've dropped
it just down to four because we want to attract
not just the big movies, but the TV stuff, the streaming,
you know, your Netflix series and things like that, so
(15:38):
really important and I think a really positive move that
we've made a share.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I mean, wetter is Wellington, isn't it. I Mean it's
what we tourists come here for.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
It.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
It's such a major part of Wellington.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
It's very important and I'm so pleased to see that
continue to grow my entire life in Wellington. That's been
a really beacon of hope for the economy we're growing,
but also the one we could have. I'm also pleased
we were able to announce our commitment to the gaming
sector another similarly structured rebate that will keep those game
(16:13):
developers in Wellington, so you can see that around film
and also gaming, we have the opportunity to develop a
really innovative creative industry in Wellington. And it's good to
see it going from strength distry.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So labor won't make any changes, won't come in and
make any changes.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
To the contrarynck. These things have to be changed regularly
because we're in a global competition, and so when incentives
change overseas, it's absolutely incumbent on government to say, oh,
look where are we at now, where does our offerings.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So you could be even more even stay rather reduced.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
Well, I'm not citing a check today, but you see
what we mean. It's important to I'm really.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Passionate about that. I want to ask you about I
should start with health. New Zealand has been asked to
cut over half a billion dollars in their efficiency targets.
How the hell are they supposed to do that?
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Yeah, they haven't been able to say. That's what worries
me about this. They've said half a billion of cuts
across the four regions in New Zealand. And then when
they said well what will be this? When they asked
what sort of cuts did make, they said, oh, well
we saved a lot of money changing our Zoom contracts
to a single account. Now there's no way you get
half a billion out of that, And you can see
(17:23):
why when this government has been so cagy about it
staff and cuts and hiring freeze, why people just don't
trust that they're going to find half a million, half
to billion dollars and it not impact public services.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
To Min' kind of really concerned by this because there's
been some really important changes that you guys have made.
Government's made towards health and they've told us that we're
all going to be looked after better. But then we've
told we've got to try and save half a billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
How can we do that, y, It's something about saving
it's about having that money available for frontline services, right
because the number one priority for us is patients. Is
about care for people.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So you're not asking them to reduce half a billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
No, that money will be directed straight into the front line,
so the budget doesn't decrease. We added that extra seven
teen billion dollars at the budget over the next four years.
That's really important. We continue to invest these two thousand
extra nurses that have been taken on. But but you know,
any good government, stress good government would actually look at
this stuff because it's not just you know, zoom contracts.
(18:22):
It's you know, renegotiating their insurance save six million just
like that, you know, looking at their supplier for rubber
gloss and millions and million dollars. Well, frankly you didn't
because they just did it again and save six million
in term. And this is the kind of thing. They've
got unused buildings that cost a million, sorry two million
a year. There are lots of things, and what kind
(18:43):
of responsible government would you be if you weren't willing
to look at how you could get money out of
those things put.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Them into page government And our government has done those
sorts of practical savings that are a benefit of the
reforms that we did. So let's not get into a
game disputing that. But the fact is that you have
decided to cut half a billion dollars and that is
more than many government.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Agency cup budget hasn't decreased half a billion dollars. That's
completely so there.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Is no visibility to the public of what you're doing.
And why should the public extravas half a billion dollars
and your your minister spins endlessly on these issues.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
That it is a massive.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Amount of that is a massive that is a massive
amount of money, and those things should be reported in
the government's box, and yet they're not because they're all
off the budget at Health New Zealand. So why don't
we get to know what what's being cut at Health
New Zealand. We never find out, And then they lie
about the amount of doctors and nurses that they're hiring
and that there's been a hiring treason.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Are you saying that that they're lying?
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yes, yes, Every doctor or nurse that you talk to
will tell you they cannot hire into their department at
Health New Zealand, and yet the government insists there's no
hiring freeze.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It's Christmas time and it wouldn't be Christmas time if
we didn't ask our politicians, Tim Costly and i Shaviral
what their plans are and what their thoughts are. Tim,
let's start with you. What have you got planned? You've
got a young family, so this is a very very
important part of the year for you.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Yep. Massive. And the thing I'm excited about the most
is a week at home doing nothing.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
And that's what you're going to do. You're not got
the not going to fill the car up with camping stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
In a way, well we are, and then we're going
to go away for a week at the beach with
a little book about chap North, and We're going to
go away and just have some quiet time with the family.
Really excited about that. There is a bit of a
discussion going on at home about whether or not I'm
going to try and paint the house or half the house.
I reckon I can do it, and the opinion is
divided in our family. So maybe maybe when we get
(20:44):
back after Christmas, I can tell you if I actually
achieved any of that.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Good on you, I mean good on, That's exactly what
I'm going to do. AI share what have you got.
You've also got a young daughter, and I know that
you're from the deep, deep down South, so I'm sure
you'll be going down there.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
I will be. One of our family traditions is to
do a tramp before Christmas, and I find that's fantastic
because you're out of cell phone range, so you immediately
disconnect from work doing that. So we'll be an aspiring
national park before heading to Tiana. And three women in
the family who love cooking, me, my mum and my sister,
(21:17):
so it can get a little bit competitive.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Are you a good cooks?
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Yeah? I am it's my thing, is it really? Yeah? Yeah,
I love to gook for people.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah. I've got a very very good friend who's a
big time surgeon and he's like that too. When he retires,
big big time surgeon. When he retires, he wants to
be he wants to have a food truck.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
Yeah. I've thought about when I leave Parliament and retire,
doing a court on blue course like a paper cooking
course and learning all the techniques and stuff like. I
like to cook for my friends. But I'm not right fancy.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I've got to ask you, and I'm sorry that I've
got to ask you. I've got to ask you for myself.
Then this is your first You're very very close to
your dad, and the tramping thing comes with your dad.
You and your dad, which I love the story. You
and your dad have always gone tramping together at this
time of the year. Is this your first year without him?
Speaker 5 (22:04):
It is, so it's important we're all there with Mum
and each other. My sister's coming back from overseas. It'll
be dad's unveiling and we had a really sweet story. Actually,
Mum and Dad know the whole town down in town now.
They taught so many of the children, all the children
who went through the school, and one of their school
friends is also a geologist, and so found the rock
(22:27):
from the river dad fished and that'll be on his grave.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. Can I just quickly ask you both
one quick sentence, one quick highlight of the year for you?
Who wants to go first?
Speaker 5 (22:40):
I'm really pleased that we're going into the election campaign
with health policy that I can really stand behind. We
need strong primary care in New Zealand, and so all
the work and seeing it get out in public. Finally,
was you know source of deep satisfaction for me? Three
free GP visits in twenty.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Six Jeez, that's tough. I tell you what. My personal
highlight just summon old a story. Just passed your driver's license,
but I tought you to drive. I was like, I'm
not gonna to pay someone. I want to do this.
If I can teach someone the fly a plane, I
reckon I teach them to drive a car and come
back from her driver's test and the excitement of going
out for the first time by yourself. Oh wow, that's
(23:19):
pretty that's a thing that you remember.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah, very good story. Thank you both for all
your time. This year. It's been amazing getting to know
you and having you as part of the show. Thoroughly
enjoyed it. Have a very very good Christmas break and
you know, hopefully everyone and your families have a good time.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Thank you, Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
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You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It'd be.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Focusing in on the issues that matter politics Thursday on
Wellington Mornings News Talks.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
It be.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
He's checking it twice.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
He's going to find out who's a naughty on that,
and son Claus is coming to tell he knows if
you are sleeping, he knows if you're away, he knows
if you've been bad of its beginnes See, you better
(00:51):
watch out, you better.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Grace tried to tell me that you could sing. She
forgot that. I've run bars and entertainment venues for forty years.
I know who can sing and who can't sing. I mean,
but you, but but but your piano playing was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I give you that.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I give you your piano playing was beautiful, But I
don't know about the vocals.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
I wouldn't give myself the piano either. But what you
missed is that the whole point of that look, I'm
not saying it of a whole own, but the whole
point was trying to prove the point. This is an
important point.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I just interrupt you before you interest. I've got I've
got to let people know who you are because I mean,
I know that you're will famous in your own mind.
But right now, ladies and jentlemen, it's politics. Thursday's Christmas
Week were a bit loose. Tim Costley, national MP for
O Tachi and II Scheveril Labor MP and spokesperson for
Health and willing to issues. Now we know our listeners
(01:47):
know who you are. You can carry on explain well.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
The whole point was I had had a conversation with
our local firefighters. I was suggesting Top Guns of Christmas movie.
They were suggesting. It wasn't if you watch the full video.
The whole point was if you played the top Gun
theme music, it matches Santa Claus coming with.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
The hell did that come from?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Look, it was a lot week. It was urgency. It
was two in the morning. I was tired. I was
a little bit bored with voting on amendments. This is
what happens. This is the risk.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
Sounds like AI generated social content to me.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
No, AI could not generate that. This is called having
a creative brain. Will leave the AI to angler Larry,
this was.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Just speaking of creation. What's that you're wearing.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
It's my Christmas jumper. It's a little bit warm.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
And by the way, I got photographed that jumper because
I know we're not able to talk about anything that
happens last night when with your with your social media,
with your media and politicians night did you go?
Speaker 5 (02:40):
I did not. I went home. I watched a James
Bond movie with my daughter and went to bed halfway through. Okay, well,
I got a best end of year party of it.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I got a text at ten thirty. Now ten thirty
might not seem late for many people, but when you
get up at four thirty in the morning, it's late.
Of Tim Costly in that jumper.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
No, it wasn't. I don't know how blind you are.
That was a David Adamburgh. It's cold jumper. This is
a root off the Red Knows Rainy a jumper.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
How many Christmas jumpers do you?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Well, I've got more than that. So we've got We've
got this one for example. I mean that one's quite
good at lights up?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Is Tim Costly taking his jumper off? Words and you're
touching my lump?
Speaker 5 (03:22):
I mean, what terrible choices I'm facing here?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Can we get serious? Now? It is?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
And then we get because I'm getting quite warm.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
He's got a third Christmas.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Jumper comes to a radio show with a visual gag.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah, I don't know, you know what it's. It's all
part of the bean. So this is is the key.
You've look three cameras today and.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I'll tell you what I really enjoyed was the fact
that when he lifted his jumper up to take me,
Eybone takes a jump or a T shirt off. You
get that, You get to see the bed drift right
politely look the other way.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
I'm very concerned about his monstery Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Right, I'll save the rest for later. I'll save the later.
People at home don't know what's going on. It's Christmas,
let's go.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I'm getting told off now by the producer for not
talking about and the big bosses are coming in there. Okay,
We've got told right, I shut GBT you GGDP.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
Chos domestic product.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Look.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
Overall, while the government will probably seek to make something
of the figure today because they're desperate for good news,
New Zealanders won't be feeling the good news yet. We've
still got businesses closing, unemployment and over the last year,
still negative growth for the country. Go back to the
beginning of this year. Christopher Luxon said this year was
(04:43):
all about growth, growth, growth, and yet well the promised
forecasts haven't eventuated because of the bad decisions this government
has taken. So look, let's hope that twenty twenty six
is is better than the year we had. We all
hope for that. But there's a lot of New Zealanders
rolling into this Christmas and it feels an awful lot
like the last Christmas. When they promise things will get better.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
We do feel that it has got better, but the
facts are the facts. I mean, not even A and
Z economists this morning said it was going to be
one point one. They thought extreme it could be one.
So Tomas is a big win.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Yeah, it is, and I think we always knew that.
Probably the last figure figures were a little bit negative,
and we you know the experience if you go and
talk to people now there is a genuine positivity. Business
confidence is the highest it's been in basically a decade.
The number of first home buyers is at a record
highest than fifteen years. Actually, yes, it has been tough,
(05:38):
and I'm not denying that at all. It would have
been much tougher had we not made the tough decisions
we had to and remember Labor posed pretty much all
of those. They post tax cuts for the hard working kiwis.
They are posed measures that would save money and make
these figures a lot better than they would have been
without them. So yes, yes, let's acknowledge that it's been tough.
I genuinely think the next year looks positive, and we
(05:58):
don't want to talk ourselves out of that. But also
I'm said to hear, what hold different if we did it?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
There?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Hold on? I mean the fact that you think it's
going to be all fantastic next year. I mean the
surplus has been delayed now to two thousand and thirty. Yeah,
you know this is the third time, you know, And
and we'll have another excuse next year and it'll be
put off board. So there is some still very serious
facts that we've got to cover.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yes, absolutely, and I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying
is we have saved eleven billion dollars every year thanks
to the measures our government has taken. Labor have opposed
pretty much all of those. What is the alternative this? This,
this deficit would be pushed out years and years without this,
So what's the alternative? The track we were on under Chrishipkins,
(06:41):
which was more debt, more borrowing, high inflation prices racing up.
You know this is.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I've got to get Echer in here. What would Barbara
Evens do different? Because she's not actually saying what she.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Do well, we wouldn't have taken the decisions this government took.
Their obsession with those eleven billion dollars of cats has
what is what has hurt Wellingtonians. That's why we've seen
fewer people in paid job in Wellington's two thousand public
service jobs. Those cuts then flew on to the rest
of our economy and we have total of five thousand
(07:13):
jobs gone from the Wellington economy because of cuts to services,
because of cuts to capital projects that have all been
delayed while the government spent eighteen months deciding what they
were going to do and all our construction workers went
to Australia. That is now going to constrain our ability.
Broth I will feel to that point about what we
(07:34):
would do well. We have started announcing our policy and
one of them that I was involved in developing is
the commitment to three free GP visits. We are going
to take real action on the cost of living that
will make a meaningful difference in people's pockets. And that's
half a billion dollars that is available to New Zealanders
to spend in other parts of the economy because of
that policy. So labor will have a different approach to things,
(07:57):
something that gets New Zealanders spending and growing the economy again.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
But that can't be the answer, right, She's just said
we're going to spend more. Spending more is what got
us into this mess. We've just talked about the fact
that they're worried that deficits been extended by one year,
and yet their solution is to spend more. What save
money and get us out.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Your cuts have hurt the city and that is absolutely
undeniable to undern.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
They're about sixteen thousand more public service jobs than there
were when the last national government finished. So you know,
you can't just artificially inflate and sustain an economy. You
actually have to create jobs that create growth, that create productivity.
What's playing to deal with deficits?
Speaker 5 (08:39):
You're contradicting yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
How not how by dropping jobs are you doing there?
Speaker 4 (08:44):
No, no, that you're talking about public public service jobs,
which is what the city better by doing that, because
that is saving money that would put us into deficit,
or the labor approach, which is borrow more, drive up inflation,
drive up interest rates, get us into the situation. We
are making the tough decisions by prioritizing.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
Our Did you deliberately cut public service spending leading to
few people spending in retail, few people spending in hospitality
and five thousand jobs lost in our city? I think
that's what you're saying.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
And there's not a lot of And here we go
labor trying to play out the same stuff again, which
is all about we.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
But they are facts, Sich years presenting. They are, absolutely,
yes they are.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
And what created that six years of borrowing an extra
one hundred and sixty billion, We are spending ten or
nine point point a little bit billion a year to
pay off just the interest, just the interest in the
money that labor borrowed that would buy us a transmission
gully and a hospital and a few public service jobs
and more construction all that. But we're not. We're paying down,
(09:49):
but you are the borrowing of.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Laboring more than what they did.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Because we have I just said, we have to pay
nine billion dollars in debt every year, every every week,
the Treasury going writer a check for five hundred million
dollars to borrow and overseas bonds. Because we are left
in such a terrible situation. That's why it's important.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
I just think that's it's cold comfort to people in
Wellington who have lost their jobs, has their businesses.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Closed because alternative. Yeah, well we have because you said
you're going to get to it, and so what is it?
How are you going to get us out of deficit
and then to suit places enough, you weren't listening to
the camera. Now that's here today, But how are you
going to do that without borrowing more, without creating more
debt and still spend all this magic money that you're promising.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Well, as you would have heard, we announced this year
a capital gains tax on a residential.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Property eleven billion dollars a year.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
That we have saved your agenda, Well, we will.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Saving money to take a break.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I'm going to take a break, so I need to
move on. I need to get to other topics. We
only have a limited time span and I want to
move on. Insert quite a good name. I didn't like
it at first, but now I'm liking it. We'll combine
housing Transport, environment ministries. AI, sure, what do you think?
Too big, too strong, too many?
Speaker 5 (11:05):
We've seen this before or last time was National was
in government when Steven Joyce merged various economic ministries to
make Ministry of Business and Immigration and Employment MBIE and
I you know, don't really see that that's been a
particularly beneficial.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Merger, something like six thousand staff too or something else.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
Yeah, yeah, so it's huge and whatever benefits you might
have got by bringing people together, you've also got a big,
unwieldy organization as well. So you know, I'm not certain
this is going to deliver the benefits claimed, but it
well mean job cuts and once again that puts Wellingtonians
back in a really tough position because all of those
(11:47):
agencies that are being merged are headquartered here here.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Can I just quickly get your thoughts though, because you know,
there's a lot of feeling and we did an hour
on this on the show that we have too many portfolios.
Ireland has fifteen and we have eighty one spread across
twenty three ministrants. I mean that's a hell of a lot,
isn't it.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Well yeah, maybe it is, but is what's the benefit
of reducing them? And where you could do other things
like develop ways of the organizations working better together.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Well, Tim will tell us what the benefits are because
he's obviously been to all the briefings. What is this
MSERT going to do? Is it going to cut stuff?
Is it going to make it more efficient?
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Yeah, it's about taking a sort of more holistic and
aligned approach to some of the big challenges. When you
think about something like housing reform and getting houses built
in this country for people live in. Actually that spans
across all of these agencies, so that the district and
city plans sit with the Ministry of Environment. You have
(12:47):
the infrastructure stuff, which sits with Ministry of Housing and
Urban Development, it sits within DEA and the local government space,
it sits within Transport. Actually bringing all of those functions
together means we take one instead of having all these
different silo spread around the different ministries, we have one
clear responsibility for delivering this working in a unified way.
(13:09):
It's not the mega mega ministry that MB is. I mean,
if you look at the total staff that work in
that space now, it's thirteen hundred, it's not six thousand,
and it's and it's too early to say what the
total number will be. It certainly won't be bigger than
that because there'll be some efficiency in that. But once
the new chief executives announced in the in the first
(13:29):
part of the net next year that that'll be one
of their jobs will be setting up exactly what the
structure looks like.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
How many job losses. No one's telling us how many
job losses, And we're doing it for efficiency, So efficiency
means job losses, you know, it's.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
It's I don't think efficiency is the number one driver.
I think it's genuinely about having an aligned approach that says, actually,
these are big challenges to New Zealand and we've we've
heard about housing probably for ten years being a big challenge,
and we've made some good steps in the last couple
of years. But if we want to tackle this head on,
we actually need to take a sensible approach and rather
than having you know, three four five ministries working on
this in different ways, let's put them all together to
(14:02):
tackle this with a really clear goal and a really
clear responsibility for that.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Last weekend, Wellington showed itself off to being the most
amazing city in the world when we had the Avatar
premiere but director James Cameron says he's worried that there'll
be more film losses and job losses as the sector
dwindles due to many complications, including Trump's tariffs. Tim, what
(14:28):
are your thoughts on this? Will the government keep handing
out the tariffs? Is the movie industry as important to
your government as it was to labor?
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, Look, we all remember the scenes of John Key's
government starting these sort of initiatives to get movie into there.
We've got a fantastic, world class industry in New Zealand
and I think Saturday Night showed that off. I missed
my invite, but it looked fantastic in the photos I saw,
and it's great to have another world premiere here in Wellington.
You know, we've got some world class production studios. I
(14:57):
do think the industry is facing some challenges with it,
you know, moves to streaming services and it's a lot
easier for competitors to get in to make low budget
movies now. But we're committed to it, which is why
we announced the extra five hundred and something million to
go towards the rebate scheme. We've got that increase up.
(15:17):
It's twenty percent rebate but you can actually get twenty
five percent if you're investing in the talent in this country.
And we've lowered the threshold dramatically this year. It used
to be about twenty five million that you had to
be spending on your movie to get that. We've dropped
it just down to four because we want to attract
not just the big movies, but the TV stuff, the streaming,
you know, your Netflix series and things like that, so
(15:38):
really important and I think a really positive move that
we've made a share.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I mean, wetter is Wellington, isn't it. I Mean it's
what we tourists come here for.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
It.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
It's such a major part of Wellington.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
It's very important and I'm so pleased to see that
continue to grow my entire life in Wellington. That's been
a really beacon of hope for the economy we're growing,
but also the one we could have. I'm also pleased
we were able to announce our commitment to the gaming
sector another similarly structured rebate that will keep those game
(16:13):
developers in Wellington, so you can see that around film
and also gaming, we have the opportunity to develop a
really innovative creative industry in Wellington. And it's good to
see it going from strength distry.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So labor won't make any changes, won't come in and
make any changes.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
To the contrarynck. These things have to be changed regularly
because we're in a global competition, and so when incentives
change overseas, it's absolutely incumbent on government to say, oh,
look where are we at now, where does our offerings.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So you could be even more even stay rather reduced.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
Well, I'm not citing a check today, but you see
what we mean. It's important to I'm really.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Passionate about that. I want to ask you about I
should start with health. New Zealand has been asked to
cut over half a billion dollars in their efficiency targets.
How the hell are they supposed to do that?
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Yeah, they haven't been able to say. That's what worries
me about this. They've said half a billion of cuts
across the four regions in New Zealand. And then when
they said well what will be this? When they asked
what sort of cuts did make, they said, oh, well
we saved a lot of money changing our Zoom contracts
to a single account. Now there's no way you get
half a billion out of that, And you can see
(17:23):
why when this government has been so cagy about it
staff and cuts and hiring freeze, why people just don't
trust that they're going to find half a million, half
to billion dollars and it not impact public services.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
To Min' kind of really concerned by this because there's
been some really important changes that you guys have made.
Government's made towards health and they've told us that we're
all going to be looked after better. But then we've
told we've got to try and save half a billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
How can we do that, y, It's something about saving
it's about having that money available for frontline services, right
because the number one priority for us is patients. Is
about care for people.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So you're not asking them to reduce half a billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
No, that money will be directed straight into the front line,
so the budget doesn't decrease. We added that extra seven
teen billion dollars at the budget over the next four years.
That's really important. We continue to invest these two thousand
extra nurses that have been taken on. But but you know,
any good government, stress good government would actually look at
this stuff because it's not just you know, zoom contracts.
(18:22):
It's you know, renegotiating their insurance save six million just
like that, you know, looking at their supplier for rubber
gloss and millions and million dollars. Well, frankly you didn't
because they just did it again and save six million
in term. And this is the kind of thing. They've
got unused buildings that cost a million, sorry two million
a year. There are lots of things, and what kind
(18:43):
of responsible government would you be if you weren't willing
to look at how you could get money out of
those things put.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Them into page government And our government has done those
sorts of practical savings that are a benefit of the
reforms that we did. So let's not get into a
game disputing that. But the fact is that you have
decided to cut half a billion dollars and that is
more than many government.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Agency cup budget hasn't decreased half a billion dollars. That's
completely so there.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Is no visibility to the public of what you're doing.
And why should the public extravas half a billion dollars
and your your minister spins endlessly on these issues.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
That it is a massive.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Amount of that is a massive that is a massive
amount of money, and those things should be reported in
the government's box, and yet they're not because they're all
off the budget at Health New Zealand. So why don't
we get to know what what's being cut at Health
New Zealand. We never find out, And then they lie
about the amount of doctors and nurses that they're hiring
and that there's been a hiring treason.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Are you saying that that they're lying?
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yes, yes, Every doctor or nurse that you talk to
will tell you they cannot hire into their department at
Health New Zealand, and yet the government insists there's no
hiring freeze.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It's Christmas time and it wouldn't be Christmas time if
we didn't ask our politicians, Tim Costly and i Shaviral
what their plans are and what their thoughts are. Tim,
let's start with you. What have you got planned? You've
got a young family, so this is a very very
important part of the year for you.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Yep. Massive. And the thing I'm excited about the most
is a week at home doing nothing.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
And that's what you're going to do. You're not got
the not going to fill the car up with camping stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
In a way, well we are, and then we're going
to go away for a week at the beach with
a little book about chap North, and We're going to
go away and just have some quiet time with the family.
Really excited about that. There is a bit of a
discussion going on at home about whether or not I'm
going to try and paint the house or half the house.
I reckon I can do it, and the opinion is
divided in our family. So maybe maybe when we get
(20:44):
back after Christmas, I can tell you if I actually
achieved any of that.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Good on you, I mean good on, That's exactly what
I'm going to do. AI share what have you got.
You've also got a young daughter, and I know that
you're from the deep, deep down South, so I'm sure
you'll be going down there.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
I will be. One of our family traditions is to
do a tramp before Christmas, and I find that's fantastic
because you're out of cell phone range, so you immediately
disconnect from work doing that. So we'll be an aspiring
national park before heading to Tiana. And three women in
the family who love cooking, me, my mum and my sister,
(21:17):
so it can get a little bit competitive.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Are you a good cooks?
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Yeah? I am it's my thing, is it really? Yeah? Yeah,
I love to gook for people.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah. I've got a very very good friend who's a
big time surgeon and he's like that too. When he retires,
big big time surgeon. When he retires, he wants to
be he wants to have a food truck.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
Yeah. I've thought about when I leave Parliament and retire,
doing a court on blue course like a paper cooking
course and learning all the techniques and stuff like. I
like to cook for my friends. But I'm not right fancy.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I've got to ask you, and I'm sorry that I've
got to ask you. I've got to ask you for myself.
Then this is your first You're very very close to
your dad, and the tramping thing comes with your dad.
You and your dad, which I love the story. You
and your dad have always gone tramping together at this
time of the year. Is this your first year without him?
Speaker 5 (22:04):
It is, so it's important we're all there with Mum
and each other. My sister's coming back from overseas. It'll
be dad's unveiling and we had a really sweet story. Actually,
Mum and Dad know the whole town down in town now.
They taught so many of the children, all the children
who went through the school, and one of their school
friends is also a geologist, and so found the rock
(22:27):
from the river dad fished and that'll be on his grave.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. Can I just quickly ask you both
one quick sentence, one quick highlight of the year for you?
Who wants to go first?
Speaker 5 (22:40):
I'm really pleased that we're going into the election campaign
with health policy that I can really stand behind. We
need strong primary care in New Zealand, and so all
the work and seeing it get out in public. Finally,
was you know source of deep satisfaction for me? Three
free GP visits in twenty.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Six Jeez, that's tough. I tell you what. My personal
highlight just summon old a story. Just passed your driver's license,
but I tought you to drive. I was like, I'm
not gonna to pay someone. I want to do this.
If I can teach someone the fly a plane, I
reckon I teach them to drive a car and come
back from her driver's test and the excitement of going
out for the first time by yourself. Oh wow, that's
(23:19):
pretty that's a thing that you remember.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah, very good story. Thank you both for all
your time. This year. It's been amazing getting to know
you and having you as part of the show. Thoroughly
enjoyed it. Have a very very good Christmas break and
you know, hopefully everyone and your families have a good time.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Thank you, Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!