Stuart Nash: Former Tourism minister responds to government moving away from 'high value' tourism approach

Former Tourism minister Stuart Nash says New Zealand should be focused on attracting high-value tourists to New Zealand, rather than greater numbers of tourists that don't spend as much. 

Yesterday newly minted Economic Growth minister Nicola Willis said the government would be moving away from the previous government's plan of mainly attracting tourists that spend significant sums while in the country. 

"I want all tourists, because ultimately it's not the government that decides how much a tourist spends when they come to New Zealand. That tourist will make that decision," she told RNZ. 

Former Tourism minister Stuart Nash, who advocated for changes to attract high-value tourists, joined Nick Mills to share his views on the comments, including the impact it could have on New Zealand's infrastructure. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks'd be.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Joining us now is former Tourism Minister Stuart Nash. Good morning, Stuart.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
How are you going? There was a deep conversation you
guys just had.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, Max and I are
both worried about our comrades. You know, you've got to
be you know, you've got to be concerned when people
lose their jobs, and in this I definitely have a
feeling that this government is making it so tough on
some things that people will lose their jobs. And I'm
a businessman that's struggling at the moment and I think that,

(00:43):
you know, there's going to be job losses around my
my own personal business that could have been helped by
the government. So I think that's a mantra that's changed.
But that's not what we've got you on board to
talk about. We want to talk to you about tourism.
What are you thinking when you heard the last comment
from Finance Minister now Minister in charge of creating new business.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
I was quite surprised action the read for that, as
when I as Minister for Tourism, I did a lot
of work on first of all, how we should position
New Zealand's brand globally and secondly, what is the optimal
mix of tourists into our country in order to create
a great experience for people who come here, but also
to serve our local communities. And there were some fantastic

(01:25):
reports written, not government reports, I will say Simon Upton
as the Commission for the Environment did a great series
on tourism. Very bright guy and very well worth reading
those reports. The bottom line is, Mate, is that tourism
was losing its social license because there were so many
people coming in here, treating the country poorly, not buying

(01:48):
into the values of what we stand for, as kiwis overcrowding,
not engaging in a way that New Zealanders were going
too much. Too many went on into this and therefore
you really ran the risk of devaluing brand New Zealand,
but also devaluing the tourists themselves.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Stuart, I've been in this industry a long long time, right,
and I never have ever once mad met a bad backpacker,
you know, freedom camper. We'll call them what you want,
real low in tourists. And I telled the story that
when your government first started heading towards the high end
stuff instead of the low end stuff. Of a guy

(02:28):
who worked for me when he was eighteen nineteen as
a backpacker, went back home, had a life, had a family,
and made millions of dollars and came back and set
up a huge, big business employing a lot of people
in New Zealand because of experience as a backpacker. I mean,
that's isn't that something that we should be thinking, thinking
about or mindfulow?

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, no, Now I have to take responsibility for this
because it was me that came out with it, and
I stand by it one hundred percent. But maybe what
happened that I got the messaging wrong. What I see
is that tourism New Zealand haven't mandate only to market
New Zealand off shore, so no domestic tourism whatsoever. They
have limited resources, so you know, they haven't got the huge,

(03:08):
big budgets of the Islands or the Italyes. So it
was always my view at the backpacker end of the
market and the ultra premium end of the market, we
were already really well known. Right you talk to German backpackers,
New Zealander is on their radar. There's no doubt about that.
But it was my view that what we would do
is we should spend our scarce resources targeting those that

(03:30):
spent the most. It didn't mean that we don't welcome backpackers.
Of course, we welcome backpackers. We welcome anyone in New Zealand.
It's who we are. But why would we spend our
limited tourism marketing dollar targeting those who didn't spend the
most when we could target those on you know, the
East coast of the United States and New York where
we just had where we have direct flights. You know,
you target your tourism dollar, your tourism spend your marketing

(03:53):
spend towards those who are going to create the most value.
So it's more of a rifle approach as a shotgun approach.
So it's not saying that we didn't welcome it. Find No,
we didn't want people. It's just that's where we would
target our marketing spend.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Are doing your research? Did they look at you know,
I don't know whether you remember, whether you're in an
age to remember, but there was a big campaign many
years ago about and don't leave home until you've seen
your country. Now did that come out? Did that come
across your table at all? Did that work?

Speaker 3 (04:22):
I don't know. It was me. I actually said to
my officials, I want you to run that ad again,
because I remember that ad as a young fellow, right,
and it was iconic. And I said, I reckon, if
you ran that ad that there's a whole of old
white guys like me would go, Yeah, I love that ad,
and they'll buy into it. And they said to me, minister,
I think maybe should go and take a look at

(04:42):
that ad. And I did. Yeah. It was pretty data,
a bit racist, a bit sixist, and a bit.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
But a lot of lives version of it. I mean,
you know, you know I've never been you know, I've
never been to Gisman.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Well if you have been to Hooks.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Babe, of course I've been to Hawks, baby, they've got
a basketball team up there. Of course I've been up
there for forty years, knocking those silly Hawks over every
time we go up here.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Everyone should go to Hawks. So this is the interesting thing.
So what happened for in COVID obviously is the borders
were closed. People couldn't come in, and Kiwis traveled in
a way that they never had. And what people began
to realize is that in fact, domestic tourism pre COVID
made up sixty percent of the market. So it was
actually a really important part of our tourism ecosystem or

(05:25):
the tourist economy. And so what happened is we gave
tourism New Zealand the mandate to market in New Zealand.
To New Zealand, it's just a very brief window. They
did a fantastic job, and you know a few I
went down to Milford Town, right, so Milford Sound had
become a camping van car park and the people in Queenstown,
the locals in Queenstown thought that tourism was out of control.

(05:48):
You go down there, and Queenstown is iconic New Zealand. Right,
I would argue that fifty the posters around the world
advertising this country of some some shot of Milford to Sound,
you know, some waterforms, and we were killing the goose
that laid the golden egg because there were just far
too many people Queenstown. We was getting pissed off with it.

(06:08):
There's a one point six billion dollar infrastructure deficit in Queenstown.
We couldn't cope. So to say no, no, I want
to load it back up again. I think we should
have as many tours is absolutely possible, bring them by
the plane load, fly themore. We don't care where they
come from, how much money they've got, how much money
they spent. We want them more. What that does is
ignores the absolute stresses that were in our system and

(06:29):
our country and our infrastructure and testing the patients of
New Zealanders and a pre COVID environment that was not
sustainable and it was going to lead to trouble. So,
you know, we want tourists in this country, but just
be a little bit careful around how we go about
it and saying that we're going to market everyone. First
of all, we can't afford to mark to everyone. Second one,
you know, we want to be a premium destination. There's

(06:50):
no doubt about that. We will welcome everyone, but the
money should be spent on promoting New Zealand as a
premium destination globally.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Stuart, what about the increase in visitor levees from thirty
five to one hundred? What do you think that What
sort of impact has that made?

Speaker 3 (07:05):
None? What think I wanted to increase it to two
hundred bucks. And the reason for that is, let me
give you one reason so to partmanent. So the leaving
was set up and recognition of the fact that tourists
use infrastructure and New Zealanders shouldn't excluicitly have to pay
that infrastructure. Tours should fund a little bit of this.
And the premise behind it was Department of Conservation with

(07:26):
fifty percent of it and MBA Tourism would get the
other fifty percent, which it would then farm out to
regional and territorial authorities. Just the concept.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Stuart, thanks for joining us this morning. Always great to chat.
We have to have you on more. I hear you
spend a bit of time in Wellington, so we've got
to get you. We've got to get you on the
show more. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Always love being on your show mate. All right, Glad,
all right.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Stuart Nash there. He was a former tourism minister, former
police minister. He was a former few ministers. Wasn't here,
great guy. I've never been a but I like a
bond radio. I like talking to him.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
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