December 3, 2025 • 21 mins
Nick is joined by Wellington City Council CEO Matt Prosser for the first time in the studio.
After 7 months in the job we hear how it’s going for Prosser, particularly after the Deloitte report.
How will he change the city, and make it a better place to be? We find out, as Nick asks him about the latest reports, AI use in council, and regional councils – and the likely hood of amalgamation.
Plus, how the council plans to deal with the rates cap – LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said, b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's problems Matt Prosser, Wellington CEO. I don't want to
call him the new CEO because he's been there seven
eight months. Matt.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome, that's right, Nick, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Indeed, firstly, i'd like to start with an apology because
I lost my rag on air and gave you a
bit of a mouthful right a few weeks ago. I
don't know whether someone told you or didn't tell you.
I'm a great guy for saying I'm sorry if I've
got it wrong, and I got it wrong, and I
wanted to face to face on air in front of
our listeners say I'm sorry for having a personal crack
(00:44):
at you when there was a genuine excuse why you
couldn't come on here, and I didn't. I wasn't portrayed that,
so I didn't know. So firstly, I'll start with an
apology and welcome Nick.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I really appreciate that. I'm sorry we couldn't make the
time work last week. But apparently by the time we
had got it, you'd got to the Finance Minister, so
I'm sure she trumps me coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
So why Wellington? What give us? It's the background of
how and why you were here?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh, well, so we've been My wife and I've been
trying to get to New Zealand for thirty plus years
and we came out here in twenty twenty three. I
was speaking at a local government conference and we came
to Wellington catch up with some old Kiwi friends and
we fell in love with the city. Didn't think in
a million years that there'd be an opportunity for me
to come and work here. So when Wellington came knocking
on the door saying, wull I'll be interested, I was
absolutely absolutely delighted to have a look. And here we are. OK,
(01:34):
just over a year ago since the interviews.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Now, I don't know I've met you once for ten
minutes over a cup of tea, so I don't know
you at all, but I've worked out that you systems
and process guy. I mean, the fact of the deloittees
report impressed the hell out of me. Someone came in
and said we've you know, a new CEO came in
and said we've got a problem. Obviously, we've got not
enough money and too many expenses. What are we doing wrong.
(01:56):
Give me a report you've done that. You're a numbers guy.
Tell me your reaction when you really got your feet
under the table, Say week two, not week one, because
you wouldn't have got through anything on week one, but
week two when you started really everything started unfolding in
front of you. What what was your gut?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, and that's probably the issue. It was a gut
feel when I came into the organization.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Lot.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I didn't come here because the organization was perfect. You know,
there's some brilliant people, some brilliant stuff going on in
the organization, but I knew there was also a chance
for me to bring a bit of me and my
leadership to it. So the gut fare was, you know, actually,
we've got some challenges. Got a great workplace culture, but
have we got a performance culture. So I've been working
through that with my seenior leadership team. And you know
the Deloitte report was, you know, moving from gut to
(02:37):
data and evidence.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Right, and and did it change any of those two things?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I think it brought some things into sharper focus, which is,
you know what I asked the lawyers to do. I
didn't ask them to tell us where we were great.
I asked them to bring some challenge and to give
us some stuff we could work with.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Which do you I mean leading into that Do you
think that you will take that advice and run with it?
Are you? I said to the to the Mia when
he was running for me, I said, can you walk
into that, into that building if you be come here
and fire two hundred people? Now the they't oud out
of a gut feeling, right, Deloittes and me agree, So
gut in reality you agree? Can we do that?
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Well?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Hey, listen, you know this, this this city is a
fabulous city, but it's gone through its challenges, both in
terms of its reliance on public sector work with the
central government and their changes. So I think we've got
to do things carefully. So while I take the Deloitte report, yes,
we work through that. Some of those key decisions have
got to be worked through with the mayor and the
elected members because they're political decisions about where that investment
does or doesn't go in the future. But my role
(03:37):
in terms of managing the city, I need to make
sure that we're looking after every dollar as our own.
You know, we've got to make sure that we're looking
for value for money at every step of the way
in terms of the organization. And I think the Deloitte
report gives us, gives us a focus in some areas
to be better, do better, and we will.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Because basically, your CEO of a billion dollar company, correct, Yes,
I mean that's pretty daunting. It's only Frontiera and a
couple of other companies. You're a billion dollar company.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Absolutely, it's a big piece of business. And I think
some we can we can, we can forget that, and
I think sometimes the public can forget that in terms
of four hundred or four hundred different service lines that
the organization delivers, you know, whether they're delivering income streams
or commercial services. It's a big organization.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I do joke with people if if we were designing
local government from the ground up now today, we wouldn't
do it like it is, but it is.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
How would we do it? And a simple I mean
it's a stupid question, but how would we do it?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well? We perhaps we're perhaps be a little bit bit simpler,
but you've got parts of the business where they're kind
of their intention with themselves inside the same business, you know,
where we're trying to we might be trying to grow
the city, but we've also got regulations that we've got
to we've got to bring that government gives to us.
We've we've got to bring to bear on the city.
And those things can be intention Whether you would whether
you do that differently, I don't know, but certainly local
(04:53):
government's not quite as easy to easy to navigate as
people might think.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I said to the previous Miya on several occasions that
we need to turn into a green light city. Now
what I mean by a green light city, and I've
got it there means go green. What do you do
when you get up to a green light? You go,
you know, amber and rear to slow down and stop
green as go? Do you reckon that? In your time?
(05:18):
You'll be able to make it into a green light
Let's get going city.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I absolutely hope. So, I mean, you know, talking to
businesses and talking to community groups around the city, you
know there's a feeling that actually there is a building
optimism that the future is brighter, and we've got to
play our part in that. And part of that is
about how do we make sure that those regulations that
we get given through statute we deliver in the best
bupple of way, the enabling way that we can have
great conversations and see investment flow into the city, which
(05:44):
I think is so important.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So out of the Deloitte's report, let's put this to
bed so we can move on to other topics. Out
of the Deloittes report, I mean, how BIG's your list
of notes.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
It's fairly extensive, but we're we're temper out, so we're
starting off at the route one with the brilliant basics
about how we make difference. And one of those things
is about how we do our contract management systems. You
and I had a qui quick conversation about that earlier
this week, and you know, just to help residents when
they're listening. And I know there's been some headlines this
week around the contract management system and only twenty percent
(06:14):
of our contracts in there. I'm plased to say we're
about ninety percent as this conversation right now. So that's
something that that report has done in terms of swinger
focus onto our systems to make sure.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That how does that work? Could give me that So
that's about.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Actually, so what we had was a contract manasioning system centrally,
it's a bit complicated, so people weren't necessarily using It
doesn't mean they're not managing contracts well, but it just
means we're not holding that data sense.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
It's just like for building, for planning, for anything to do.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yeah, and probably the best example I'll give you, and
this is where some of the challenges come is that
you know, we might have issued one part of business,
might have issued a cleaning contract to one company, and
another part of the business and a year later has
issued another cleaning contract to perhaps another company or even
the same company. What the central system allows us to
do is to join the dots up and say, hey, listener,
we've got five cleaning contacts that we can we can
(06:59):
put out to the market together. It might come back
and it might be cheaper, it might be better value
for money for the residents and the ratepayers of city.
So that's what that'll allow us to do.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Will you use AI? Are you? Are you an AI guy? Out?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
We do use AI. I was national lead for Digital
leadership in the UK for an organization for a number
of years and digital is important. AI is part of
our life. But I think we've got to be really
careful about how we introduce that. We are at the
end of the day of people based business delivering services
to people as local government. But can we use AI
to augment that to make us more efficient, more effective?
(07:33):
Then I think, yeah, we've got to look at that.
We've got to be open to that, and we'll be
doing some work to think carefully about how we do that.
You know, AI is quite a scary beast if you've
done any research around. I listened to a podcast over
the weekend about AI, and I have to say it
scared me a little bit in terms of the pace
of the change that AI is capable to bring.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But isn't that a good thing when you're trying to
bring your numbers down and do isn't it a good thing?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Or yeah, well it can be. I think at the
end of the day, I doubt that I've got any
of my staff colleagues who are sitting there waiting for
the fortieth hour of their weekly contracted click. So something
that can help them be more efficient, help us to
deliver better quality of service has got to be useful.
So is it used to is it used to drive efficiency?
Is it drive to drive effectiveness? Then we've got to
(08:17):
look at that.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Ye see, I listened to a social media cost cast
what they call podcast podcast that said that AI can
help every single person. Yeah, in some way, so it
must be able to help.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I'm sure it can. I'm sure it can and we've
got it. We've we've got to look at that and
gather balance.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Okay, take a short break and be back with Mike.
Matt Prosser, CEO of Wellington City Council. I want to
talk to him about his relationship with the new mayor.
Wellington City Council CEO Matt Prosser in the studio with us.
Let's talk mad about the relationship. I mean, let's compare
the previous council a mayor to to the one currently.
Is there is there a different should we be excited? Well,
(09:00):
there's perhaps.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
A couple of questions in there, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Now?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Listen, I've got a good relationship with all the elected
members past and present in the City Council and that's
part of my role, isn't it. At the end of
the day, I'm the senior advisor to the to the
council and.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
To the who's the boss? Who's the boss? Because it's
been talked about, you know, the previous of CEO felt
that she was the boss and the council would there
to be told what to do by her, who he
reckons the boss.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Well, you see, for me, I've I've perhaps got a
different perspective in terms of that. You know, with the
mayor and the elected members have the democratic Monday around
that table to set the strategy and to drive forwards
the city.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
My role is.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
My role is to deliver it for the city, you know.
So I take that political direction and I've then got
to convert that into what are the services and how
do we then deliver that. So it's a it's a
very it's a very close relationship. It is a very
important relationship, and it's a good relationship I've had with
both mayors of the city and I think excited about that.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Surely, if the council decided that they want to save
Bconia House and you don't have the money for it,
surely you can turn around and say, look, this is
not in our financial budget, we can't afford to do it. Sorry.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
No, Well, I think that's where the democratic process comes in,
doesn't it. And so if if if take that example,
if they democratically say no, we are absolutely going to
save that, then I've got to say to world, these
are the options that you've got to pick then for
to deliver that saving. You know, we have to we
have to deliver on our budget. So there's some tough conversations.
My pre election report, I said, you know, this new
Council is going to have some real challenges in terms
(10:27):
of trade off some some difficult decisions. Uh, And that's
the way it's going to go. But I think at
the heart of it is a good working relationship across
all elected members and making sure that they understand their role.
I understand their role, they understand my role.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Have you got a tough streak to you? If you've
got are you gonna down on the beach? Are you
guy that doesn't like getting mucked around? I mean, look,
I haven't met too many poems that don't have that
on them.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
So I like to quite and I say shouting only
motivates the death and that's good for me because I've
got a loss of hearing in one ear. But but
you know, when I when I when I say things,
I won't expect people to do them. And if you
do get to the point where I'm having to raise
a voice, then you know, really is serious in terms
of that. But actually, you know, I'm not one to
bang on the desk. I want to give clear, clear instruction,
(11:12):
clear direction, and expect.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
It to happen. What happens. If it doesn't happen, then I'll.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Be going to be giving clearer instruction and clearer direction.
Make sure there is no ambiguity. You know, you can't
hold somebody accountable if you haven't told them what you're
holding them accountable for. So if I've told you what
I want you to deliver, then I expect you to
deliver it.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Got any problems with that, with what you've got around
you at the moment?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
No, no, no, no, not at all. Hey, listen to new council.
There's a sense of expectation, I think, both in terms
of inside the city Council and around the city and
so far it's good.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Can you confirm or deny or not say anything that
the vibe feels a lot better around the council table
at the moment.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Well, it's the first time I've gone through that transition
of election into a new council table, so I don't
know what it was like the last time when we
had a new councilor and council table. But there is
a good vibe and there is a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Okay, let's talk dollars and cents. I mean a lot
of things have happened over the last couple of weeks.
We're getting rid of regional councils. How does that affect you.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Well, it's not quite getting rid of regional councils at
the moment. The proposal is to remove the kind of
level of governance. But yeah, how does that affect us? Well,
it will affect us because there be a conversation about
the mayors are going to have to have a conversation
across the region. How do we divvy this up? What
is practical in terms of that? So does that mean
that those services will come down to the territorial authorities?
Will it be spread across I don't exactly know how
(12:27):
we're going to do that.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Does that ski you or excite you? A algamation?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Well, Nick, you know, you know from the brief conversation
we had Elier in the week, you know my background
was a malgamation in the UK. It wasn't necessarily something
I came here to do, but I brought six councils
into one back in twenty nineteen. That followed four years
of working across the sector and Dorset.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So it excites you, I mean, I mean it excites me.
It excites the hell out of me. The fact that
we can be competing. You know, we've got poly or
lower hat upper hat in Wellington. That's the one. That's
the malgamation. I want that's my personal, right, personal one.
We can we can start competing against Auckland and christ
Church and be stronger, can't you.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, absolutely, we're talking to the business community. They're certainly
that's their view. They're very excited about that. I think
when he then start stop, community community groups and communities
kind of start thinking, well, what about our identity and
how does that what does that mean for our services
delivered locally? So we're going to work through all of that.
That's obviously a conversation for the politicians and then for
us to have a conversation with our residents.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And now I'm smart enough to know that you've had
conversations with the Beehive, You've walked down You've walked down
that hill a few times and head meetings at the Beehive.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Twelve meters from my front door to their's five hundred
and twelve meters.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
So that's what they want, isn't it. And you know
what they want, an amalgamation discourage.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
It would certainly appear that the direction of travel is
to drive that drive that conversation. But I think, and
this is the same in the UK, what central government
wants local government to do isn't always directly obvious. Sometimes
you have to read between the lines. But I think
that's a conversation that, as I say, politicians are going
to have to have and work through what that means
for communities and for the City of Wellington.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
So how does it change your job if we've got
rid of those regional councils rather than the regional counts.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Well, it doesn't in that respect, unless, of course, it
means slightly more depends on what they to tell size
of the government structure that's going to go into that space.
I think I think what would change our jobs is
if amalgamation comes out of the back of.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
That right, which being the man on the street, I
obviously think is going to be the next step and
I think we'll probably here about that early next year.
But that's my personal that's my verse personal view. Now,
some other decision that's been made a way above your
pay scale and my pay scale, is that the government's
turned around and said that you're no longer in a
(14:43):
couple of years time. I don't know whether you still
be here or not, but what twenty twenty nine, it's
a while away. No more than four percent on can
go up on your rates. Now, what can you give
our listeners some examples of things that will not be
able to happen if you have a situation where you're
told you cannot you cannot raise the rates.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, I mean, just so the rate cupping proposal is
coming forward again. The devil's going to be in the
detail because at the moment saying it won't necessarily affect infrastructure,
and the reality is most of the challenges of the
city councils around its infrastructure costs. You know, this is
ten twenty thirty years worth of either not putting the
money away, and this is a national issue, not just
a Wellington issue, not putting money away or not investing
in the infrastructure. And then when we come to invest
(15:22):
in the infrastructure, because it's got to such a poor state,
you know, we're on the back of a global pandemic,
global tariffs and infrastructure costs can of thirty to forty
percent of perfect storm. So most of our costs are
driven by by borrowing, you know, in terms of to
invest in that infrastructure. So if we can't, if we
if infrastructures included within it, and that four percent cap
comes in at that level two to four percent, then
(15:44):
it is going to make some even tougher choices that
the councilors have to deliver. That said, you know, water
is going to be going out into Tiaki y and
first of July next year, so water will be a separate,
separate entity with separate billing for residents, and therefore our
rates would naturally be dropping anyway from twenty twenty seven,
I can't remember. I think in the long term plan
(16:04):
they're showed it somewhere around five five five point seven
I think five point seven percent. So in one sense,
it's a trajectory that we were already going to be on.
But I think the reality is there will be some
tough choices that councils are going to have to.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Make, and will those tough choices be things like I mean,
we're very passionate about our arts and entertainment in the city,
as you're well aware of. You've come from a musical
background yourself. You know how important it is to the
study sport. I mean, all those things will be looked
at and worked out whether we can afford them anymore, won't.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
They Well absolutely, I'll get you two examples. If you
think about it, in terms of your household budget. If
your household budget is constrained, you go back to your basis.
You need to pay your rates, you need to pay
your utilities, you need to put food on the table.
You don't necessarily invest in the house. You don't invest
in holidays, you don't invest in sport and going out.
So those things are going to be hit and that
will hit the economy hard.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
The second piece of that, I've got experience in the UK,
certainly in English authorities. They've had rates capping for twenty
years and for the first few years you don't necessarily
notice it, but then you start to notice that lack
of investment in those community facilities, in terms of that
community infrastructure, and that brings challenge, brings societal challenge, It
brings you know, it brings a quality of life challenge.
(17:18):
So we've got to work through all of that with
our communities and you know, elective members around the table.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So that will actually become a reality. You'll have to
start saying, well that we can't do that anymore. I
mean things that scier me as well, things like that
which are really big, big numbers in our city and
we know why it's proved.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Why, Yes, it's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Brilliant for the city, but it costs us a lot
of money. So that might be one that we say, gosh,
it might have to go to walk and we just
can't afford it anymore.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Well, I think it's about looking around that circle as well,
so actually having a conversation with our businesses. Businesses really
appreciate WOW and the other events that we support and
Wellington and Zed through Wellington and Z support. We've got
to think about that. So who puts the money in?
Where does the money come from? Do we need some
stronger partnerships with some of our private sector organizations.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Do you have that sponsorship manager I was thinking of
out there the other day in the shower. Actually, do
you ever, I mean, have you got this one inn
City council got a sponsorship team that or partnership teams
are now called, so that we're actually out there actively
trying to bring money from Yeah, so we do. We did.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
We deliver that through Wellington end Z, So that's that's
our CEO, the council controlled organization that we do work
through that. But yeah, that'll be increasing part of it.
And in the UK that was an increasing part of
the work that we did in terms of make sure
we've got commercial income streams coming in, but also making
sure that we're delivering value for money through every contract
that we issue as a city.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So I know you've got to go I'm looking at
the clock and you're looking at your watch.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
But three years from now, yep, what are we going
to see? Well, I think what are you going to promise?
What I hope we're going to see is a city
that continues to continue to buzz the You know, we've
talked about twenty twenty six in terms of the things
that are happening from a city perspective, new Central Library,
a City Gallery and follow on by the town Hall.
(19:04):
We've got the band Ra tunder, We've got a bigger
events program coming. Ed Sheeran coming in January. So twenty
twenty six, the real buzz starting to field come back
into the city.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Just got this new duff Doff gig as wells Grace
is very excited about. I call it a duf dolf one.
I don't know what you call it, zdoff offfice that
it's a drum and bass electronic electronic dance.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
There we ga, we're both we're demonstrating our age, but
I probably would enjoy it anyway. It's, you know, like
all genres of music. But I think, you know, we
want to see that buzz and then we want to
see that carry on into twenty seven and then twenty eight.
I've been talking to some of the construction companies in
the in the city, you know, and they sort of
asking me, so, what are you going to be building?
And I go, well, we've done quite a bit of
building as a city council. What I want to do
(19:45):
is build an environment where you can invest, where private
sector can invest and can actually invest and build in
the city. So that's that's my hope.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Do you have a message for those people, because I
deal with a lot of those people as friends as
I've grown up, you know, the developers and we've got
some brilliant, very brilliant, you know, Kirk Gibbons is about
to start on Corori, you know, brilliant, does great work
for the city. What message you give to them, Well,
there's a lot of them.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Not only could no, absolutely, And of course we've got
some change in that space as well with with RMA
reform that the government's bringing through. But I think you
know my commitment to the construction industry. We need to
give consistent, fair and timely advice. They've told us that.
Certainly my chief planning officers receive that message loud and clear,
and we're working to make sure we deliver that.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
The yes, not the no. Come in, come in and
never be.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
There's a challenge, hey, listen, it's consenting is a challenging world,
isn't it. You've got a whole load of rules and
rags around it, you know, and when even when you
want to say yes, sometimes you're constrained by something else
that comes out there. But if you can have a
good dialogue, good relationship, you can make things happen.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
We call it in our world open and transparent. Correct?
Is that all you need to be?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Merry Christmas? I won't get an opportunity to have you
in the studio before Christmas, so Merry Christmas, welcome to Wellington,
and I really sincerely hope that your tenure is long
and successful and you enjoy Wellington as much as you
did when you came here holidaying in the real world,
because I know you've got family back in England, so
it's it's a tough gig for you.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
It is well Nick, thank you very much on Happy
Christmas to you. I heard for the first time this week,
happy Christmas and have a great summer. That's an expression
I've not been used to. So although we're in Wellington, so.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know today last night I was freezing.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
It was a bit more like a December day in
the UK.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Okay, yeah, I'm gonna yelled at we need to go
to the DS. But thank you very much and good luck.
We'll keep in touch and we'll give you plenty of
notice when we need your expert comments.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
But thank you, thanks neck, Happy Christmas.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Matt Prosser, who is the CEO of Wellington. I'm not
going to call him the new CEO because he's been
here eight months. He is the CEO of Wellington and
I think he's going to do a good job. I
hope he's going to do a good job. I pray
he's going to do a good job.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said, b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's problems Matt Prosser, Wellington CEO. I don't want to
call him the new CEO because he's been there seven
eight months. Matt.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome, that's right, Nick, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Indeed, firstly, i'd like to start with an apology because
I lost my rag on air and gave you a
bit of a mouthful right a few weeks ago. I
don't know whether someone told you or didn't tell you.
I'm a great guy for saying I'm sorry if I've
got it wrong, and I got it wrong, and I
wanted to face to face on air in front of
our listeners say I'm sorry for having a personal crack
(00:44):
at you when there was a genuine excuse why you
couldn't come on here, and I didn't. I wasn't portrayed that,
so I didn't know. So firstly, I'll start with an
apology and welcome Nick.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I really appreciate that. I'm sorry we couldn't make the
time work last week. But apparently by the time we
had got it, you'd got to the Finance Minister, so
I'm sure she trumps me coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
So why Wellington? What give us? It's the background of
how and why you were here?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh, well, so we've been My wife and I've been
trying to get to New Zealand for thirty plus years
and we came out here in twenty twenty three. I
was speaking at a local government conference and we came
to Wellington catch up with some old Kiwi friends and
we fell in love with the city. Didn't think in
a million years that there'd be an opportunity for me
to come and work here. So when Wellington came knocking
on the door saying, wull I'll be interested, I was
absolutely absolutely delighted to have a look. And here we are. OK,
(01:34):
just over a year ago since the interviews.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Now, I don't know I've met you once for ten
minutes over a cup of tea, so I don't know
you at all, but I've worked out that you systems
and process guy. I mean, the fact of the deloittees
report impressed the hell out of me. Someone came in
and said we've you know, a new CEO came in
and said we've got a problem. Obviously, we've got not
enough money and too many expenses. What are we doing wrong.
(01:56):
Give me a report you've done that. You're a numbers guy.
Tell me your reaction when you really got your feet
under the table, Say week two, not week one, because
you wouldn't have got through anything on week one, but
week two when you started really everything started unfolding in
front of you. What what was your gut?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, and that's probably the issue. It was a gut
feel when I came into the organization.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Lot.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I didn't come here because the organization was perfect. You know,
there's some brilliant people, some brilliant stuff going on in
the organization, but I knew there was also a chance
for me to bring a bit of me and my
leadership to it. So the gut fare was, you know, actually,
we've got some challenges. Got a great workplace culture, but
have we got a performance culture. So I've been working
through that with my seenior leadership team. And you know
the Deloitte report was, you know, moving from gut to
(02:37):
data and evidence.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Right, and and did it change any of those two things?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I think it brought some things into sharper focus, which is,
you know what I asked the lawyers to do. I
didn't ask them to tell us where we were great.
I asked them to bring some challenge and to give
us some stuff we could work with.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Which do you I mean leading into that Do you
think that you will take that advice and run with it?
Are you? I said to the to the Mia when
he was running for me, I said, can you walk
into that, into that building if you be come here
and fire two hundred people? Now the they't oud out
of a gut feeling, right, Deloittes and me agree, So
gut in reality you agree? Can we do that?
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Well?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Hey, listen, you know this, this this city is a
fabulous city, but it's gone through its challenges, both in
terms of its reliance on public sector work with the
central government and their changes. So I think we've got
to do things carefully. So while I take the Deloitte report, yes,
we work through that. Some of those key decisions have
got to be worked through with the mayor and the
elected members because they're political decisions about where that investment
does or doesn't go in the future. But my role
(03:37):
in terms of managing the city, I need to make
sure that we're looking after every dollar as our own.
You know, we've got to make sure that we're looking
for value for money at every step of the way
in terms of the organization. And I think the Deloitte
report gives us, gives us a focus in some areas
to be better, do better, and we will.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Because basically, your CEO of a billion dollar company, correct, Yes,
I mean that's pretty daunting. It's only Frontiera and a
couple of other companies. You're a billion dollar company.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Absolutely, it's a big piece of business. And I think
some we can we can, we can forget that, and
I think sometimes the public can forget that in terms
of four hundred or four hundred different service lines that
the organization delivers, you know, whether they're delivering income streams
or commercial services. It's a big organization.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I do joke with people if if we were designing
local government from the ground up now today, we wouldn't
do it like it is, but it is.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
How would we do it? And a simple I mean
it's a stupid question, but how would we do it?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well? We perhaps we're perhaps be a little bit bit simpler,
but you've got parts of the business where they're kind
of their intention with themselves inside the same business, you know,
where we're trying to we might be trying to grow
the city, but we've also got regulations that we've got
to we've got to bring that government gives to us.
We've we've got to bring to bear on the city.
And those things can be intention Whether you would whether
you do that differently, I don't know, but certainly local
(04:53):
government's not quite as easy to easy to navigate as
people might think.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I said to the previous Miya on several occasions that
we need to turn into a green light city. Now
what I mean by a green light city, and I've
got it there means go green. What do you do
when you get up to a green light? You go,
you know, amber and rear to slow down and stop
green as go? Do you reckon that? In your time?
(05:18):
You'll be able to make it into a green light
Let's get going city.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I absolutely hope. So, I mean, you know, talking to
businesses and talking to community groups around the city, you
know there's a feeling that actually there is a building
optimism that the future is brighter, and we've got to
play our part in that. And part of that is
about how do we make sure that those regulations that
we get given through statute we deliver in the best
bupple of way, the enabling way that we can have
great conversations and see investment flow into the city, which
(05:44):
I think is so important.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So out of the Deloitte's report, let's put this to
bed so we can move on to other topics. Out
of the Deloittes report, I mean, how BIG's your list
of notes.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
It's fairly extensive, but we're we're temper out, so we're
starting off at the route one with the brilliant basics
about how we make difference. And one of those things
is about how we do our contract management systems. You
and I had a qui quick conversation about that earlier
this week, and you know, just to help residents when
they're listening. And I know there's been some headlines this
week around the contract management system and only twenty percent
(06:14):
of our contracts in there. I'm plased to say we're
about ninety percent as this conversation right now. So that's
something that that report has done in terms of swinger
focus onto our systems to make sure.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That how does that work? Could give me that So
that's about.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Actually, so what we had was a contract manasioning system centrally,
it's a bit complicated, so people weren't necessarily using It
doesn't mean they're not managing contracts well, but it just
means we're not holding that data sense.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
It's just like for building, for planning, for anything to do.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yeah, and probably the best example I'll give you, and
this is where some of the challenges come is that
you know, we might have issued one part of business,
might have issued a cleaning contract to one company, and
another part of the business and a year later has
issued another cleaning contract to perhaps another company or even
the same company. What the central system allows us to
do is to join the dots up and say, hey, listener,
we've got five cleaning contacts that we can we can
(06:59):
put out to the market together. It might come back
and it might be cheaper, it might be better value
for money for the residents and the ratepayers of city.
So that's what that'll allow us to do.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Will you use AI? Are you? Are you an AI guy? Out?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
We do use AI. I was national lead for Digital
leadership in the UK for an organization for a number
of years and digital is important. AI is part of
our life. But I think we've got to be really
careful about how we introduce that. We are at the
end of the day of people based business delivering services
to people as local government. But can we use AI
to augment that to make us more efficient, more effective?
(07:33):
Then I think, yeah, we've got to look at that.
We've got to be open to that, and we'll be
doing some work to think carefully about how we do that.
You know, AI is quite a scary beast if you've
done any research around. I listened to a podcast over
the weekend about AI, and I have to say it
scared me a little bit in terms of the pace
of the change that AI is capable to bring.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But isn't that a good thing when you're trying to
bring your numbers down and do isn't it a good thing?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Or yeah, well it can be. I think at the
end of the day, I doubt that I've got any
of my staff colleagues who are sitting there waiting for
the fortieth hour of their weekly contracted click. So something
that can help them be more efficient, help us to
deliver better quality of service has got to be useful.
So is it used to is it used to drive efficiency?
Is it drive to drive effectiveness? Then we've got to
(08:17):
look at that.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Ye see, I listened to a social media cost cast
what they call podcast podcast that said that AI can
help every single person. Yeah, in some way, so it
must be able to help.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I'm sure it can. I'm sure it can and we've
got it. We've we've got to look at that and
gather balance.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Okay, take a short break and be back with Mike.
Matt Prosser, CEO of Wellington City Council. I want to
talk to him about his relationship with the new mayor.
Wellington City Council CEO Matt Prosser in the studio with us.
Let's talk mad about the relationship. I mean, let's compare
the previous council a mayor to to the one currently.
Is there is there a different should we be excited? Well,
(09:00):
there's perhaps.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
A couple of questions in there, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Now?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Listen, I've got a good relationship with all the elected
members past and present in the City Council and that's
part of my role, isn't it. At the end of
the day, I'm the senior advisor to the to the
council and.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
To the who's the boss? Who's the boss? Because it's
been talked about, you know, the previous of CEO felt
that she was the boss and the council would there
to be told what to do by her, who he
reckons the boss.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Well, you see, for me, I've I've perhaps got a
different perspective in terms of that. You know, with the
mayor and the elected members have the democratic Monday around
that table to set the strategy and to drive forwards
the city.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
My role is.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
My role is to deliver it for the city, you know.
So I take that political direction and I've then got
to convert that into what are the services and how
do we then deliver that. So it's a it's a
very it's a very close relationship. It is a very
important relationship, and it's a good relationship I've had with
both mayors of the city and I think excited about that.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Surely, if the council decided that they want to save
Bconia House and you don't have the money for it,
surely you can turn around and say, look, this is
not in our financial budget, we can't afford to do it. Sorry.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
No, Well, I think that's where the democratic process comes in,
doesn't it. And so if if if take that example,
if they democratically say no, we are absolutely going to
save that, then I've got to say to world, these
are the options that you've got to pick then for
to deliver that saving. You know, we have to we
have to deliver on our budget. So there's some tough conversations.
My pre election report, I said, you know, this new
Council is going to have some real challenges in terms
(10:27):
of trade off some some difficult decisions. Uh, And that's
the way it's going to go. But I think at
the heart of it is a good working relationship across
all elected members and making sure that they understand their role.
I understand their role, they understand my role.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Have you got a tough streak to you? If you've
got are you gonna down on the beach? Are you
guy that doesn't like getting mucked around? I mean, look,
I haven't met too many poems that don't have that
on them.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
So I like to quite and I say shouting only
motivates the death and that's good for me because I've
got a loss of hearing in one ear. But but
you know, when I when I when I say things,
I won't expect people to do them. And if you
do get to the point where I'm having to raise
a voice, then you know, really is serious in terms
of that. But actually, you know, I'm not one to
bang on the desk. I want to give clear, clear instruction,
(11:12):
clear direction, and expect.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
It to happen. What happens. If it doesn't happen, then I'll.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Be going to be giving clearer instruction and clearer direction.
Make sure there is no ambiguity. You know, you can't
hold somebody accountable if you haven't told them what you're
holding them accountable for. So if I've told you what
I want you to deliver, then I expect you to
deliver it.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Got any problems with that, with what you've got around
you at the moment?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
No, no, no, no, not at all. Hey, listen to new council.
There's a sense of expectation, I think, both in terms
of inside the city Council and around the city and
so far it's good.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Can you confirm or deny or not say anything that
the vibe feels a lot better around the council table
at the moment.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Well, it's the first time I've gone through that transition
of election into a new council table, so I don't
know what it was like the last time when we
had a new councilor and council table. But there is
a good vibe and there is a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Okay, let's talk dollars and cents. I mean a lot
of things have happened over the last couple of weeks.
We're getting rid of regional councils. How does that affect you.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Well, it's not quite getting rid of regional councils at
the moment. The proposal is to remove the kind of
level of governance. But yeah, how does that affect us? Well,
it will affect us because there be a conversation about
the mayors are going to have to have a conversation
across the region. How do we divvy this up? What
is practical in terms of that? So does that mean
that those services will come down to the territorial authorities?
Will it be spread across I don't exactly know how
(12:27):
we're going to do that.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Does that ski you or excite you? A algamation?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Well, Nick, you know, you know from the brief conversation
we had Elier in the week, you know my background
was a malgamation in the UK. It wasn't necessarily something
I came here to do, but I brought six councils
into one back in twenty nineteen. That followed four years
of working across the sector and Dorset.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So it excites you, I mean, I mean it excites me.
It excites the hell out of me. The fact that
we can be competing. You know, we've got poly or
lower hat upper hat in Wellington. That's the one. That's
the malgamation. I want that's my personal, right, personal one.
We can we can start competing against Auckland and christ
Church and be stronger, can't you.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, absolutely, we're talking to the business community. They're certainly
that's their view. They're very excited about that. I think
when he then start stop, community community groups and communities
kind of start thinking, well, what about our identity and
how does that what does that mean for our services
delivered locally? So we're going to work through all of that.
That's obviously a conversation for the politicians and then for
us to have a conversation with our residents.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And now I'm smart enough to know that you've had
conversations with the Beehive, You've walked down You've walked down
that hill a few times and head meetings at the Beehive.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Twelve meters from my front door to their's five hundred
and twelve meters.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
So that's what they want, isn't it. And you know
what they want, an amalgamation discourage.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
It would certainly appear that the direction of travel is
to drive that drive that conversation. But I think, and
this is the same in the UK, what central government
wants local government to do isn't always directly obvious. Sometimes
you have to read between the lines. But I think
that's a conversation that, as I say, politicians are going
to have to have and work through what that means
for communities and for the City of Wellington.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
So how does it change your job if we've got
rid of those regional councils rather than the regional counts.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Well, it doesn't in that respect, unless, of course, it
means slightly more depends on what they to tell size
of the government structure that's going to go into that space.
I think I think what would change our jobs is
if amalgamation comes out of the back of.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
That right, which being the man on the street, I
obviously think is going to be the next step and
I think we'll probably here about that early next year.
But that's my personal that's my verse personal view. Now,
some other decision that's been made a way above your
pay scale and my pay scale, is that the government's
turned around and said that you're no longer in a
(14:43):
couple of years time. I don't know whether you still
be here or not, but what twenty twenty nine, it's
a while away. No more than four percent on can
go up on your rates. Now, what can you give
our listeners some examples of things that will not be
able to happen if you have a situation where you're
told you cannot you cannot raise the rates.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, I mean, just so the rate cupping proposal is
coming forward again. The devil's going to be in the
detail because at the moment saying it won't necessarily affect infrastructure,
and the reality is most of the challenges of the
city councils around its infrastructure costs. You know, this is
ten twenty thirty years worth of either not putting the
money away, and this is a national issue, not just
a Wellington issue, not putting money away or not investing
in the infrastructure. And then when we come to invest
(15:22):
in the infrastructure, because it's got to such a poor state,
you know, we're on the back of a global pandemic,
global tariffs and infrastructure costs can of thirty to forty
percent of perfect storm. So most of our costs are
driven by by borrowing, you know, in terms of to
invest in that infrastructure. So if we can't, if we
if infrastructures included within it, and that four percent cap
comes in at that level two to four percent, then
(15:44):
it is going to make some even tougher choices that
the councilors have to deliver. That said, you know, water
is going to be going out into Tiaki y and
first of July next year, so water will be a separate,
separate entity with separate billing for residents, and therefore our
rates would naturally be dropping anyway from twenty twenty seven,
I can't remember. I think in the long term plan
(16:04):
they're showed it somewhere around five five five point seven
I think five point seven percent. So in one sense,
it's a trajectory that we were already going to be on.
But I think the reality is there will be some
tough choices that councils are going to have to.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Make, and will those tough choices be things like I mean,
we're very passionate about our arts and entertainment in the city,
as you're well aware of. You've come from a musical
background yourself. You know how important it is to the
study sport. I mean, all those things will be looked
at and worked out whether we can afford them anymore, won't.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
They Well absolutely, I'll get you two examples. If you
think about it, in terms of your household budget. If
your household budget is constrained, you go back to your basis.
You need to pay your rates, you need to pay
your utilities, you need to put food on the table.
You don't necessarily invest in the house. You don't invest
in holidays, you don't invest in sport and going out.
So those things are going to be hit and that
will hit the economy hard.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
The second piece of that, I've got experience in the UK,
certainly in English authorities. They've had rates capping for twenty
years and for the first few years you don't necessarily
notice it, but then you start to notice that lack
of investment in those community facilities, in terms of that
community infrastructure, and that brings challenge, brings societal challenge, It
brings you know, it brings a quality of life challenge.
(17:18):
So we've got to work through all of that with
our communities and you know, elective members around the table.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So that will actually become a reality. You'll have to
start saying, well that we can't do that anymore. I
mean things that scier me as well, things like that
which are really big, big numbers in our city and
we know why it's proved.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Why, Yes, it's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Brilliant for the city, but it costs us a lot
of money. So that might be one that we say, gosh,
it might have to go to walk and we just
can't afford it anymore.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Well, I think it's about looking around that circle as well,
so actually having a conversation with our businesses. Businesses really
appreciate WOW and the other events that we support and
Wellington and Zed through Wellington and Z support. We've got
to think about that. So who puts the money in?
Where does the money come from? Do we need some
stronger partnerships with some of our private sector organizations.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Do you have that sponsorship manager I was thinking of
out there the other day in the shower. Actually, do
you ever, I mean, have you got this one inn
City council got a sponsorship team that or partnership teams
are now called, so that we're actually out there actively
trying to bring money from Yeah, so we do. We did.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
We deliver that through Wellington end Z, So that's that's
our CEO, the council controlled organization that we do work
through that. But yeah, that'll be increasing part of it.
And in the UK that was an increasing part of
the work that we did in terms of make sure
we've got commercial income streams coming in, but also making
sure that we're delivering value for money through every contract
that we issue as a city.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So I know you've got to go I'm looking at
the clock and you're looking at your watch.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
But three years from now, yep, what are we going
to see? Well, I think what are you going to promise?
What I hope we're going to see is a city
that continues to continue to buzz the You know, we've
talked about twenty twenty six in terms of the things
that are happening from a city perspective, new Central Library,
a City Gallery and follow on by the town Hall.
(19:04):
We've got the band Ra tunder, We've got a bigger
events program coming. Ed Sheeran coming in January. So twenty
twenty six, the real buzz starting to field come back
into the city.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Just got this new duff Doff gig as wells Grace
is very excited about. I call it a duf dolf one.
I don't know what you call it, zdoff offfice that
it's a drum and bass electronic electronic dance.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
There we ga, we're both we're demonstrating our age, but
I probably would enjoy it anyway. It's, you know, like
all genres of music. But I think, you know, we
want to see that buzz and then we want to
see that carry on into twenty seven and then twenty eight.
I've been talking to some of the construction companies in
the in the city, you know, and they sort of
asking me, so, what are you going to be building?
And I go, well, we've done quite a bit of
building as a city council. What I want to do
(19:45):
is build an environment where you can invest, where private
sector can invest and can actually invest and build in
the city. So that's that's my hope.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Do you have a message for those people, because I
deal with a lot of those people as friends as
I've grown up, you know, the developers and we've got
some brilliant, very brilliant, you know, Kirk Gibbons is about
to start on Corori, you know, brilliant, does great work
for the city. What message you give to them, Well,
there's a lot of them.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Not only could no, absolutely, And of course we've got
some change in that space as well with with RMA
reform that the government's bringing through. But I think you
know my commitment to the construction industry. We need to
give consistent, fair and timely advice. They've told us that.
Certainly my chief planning officers receive that message loud and clear,
and we're working to make sure we deliver that.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
The yes, not the no. Come in, come in and
never be.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
There's a challenge, hey, listen, it's consenting is a challenging world,
isn't it. You've got a whole load of rules and
rags around it, you know, and when even when you
want to say yes, sometimes you're constrained by something else
that comes out there. But if you can have a
good dialogue, good relationship, you can make things happen.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
We call it in our world open and transparent. Correct?
Is that all you need to be?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Merry Christmas? I won't get an opportunity to have you
in the studio before Christmas, so Merry Christmas, welcome to Wellington,
and I really sincerely hope that your tenure is long
and successful and you enjoy Wellington as much as you
did when you came here holidaying in the real world,
because I know you've got family back in England, so
it's it's a tough gig for you.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
It is well Nick, thank you very much on Happy
Christmas to you. I heard for the first time this week,
happy Christmas and have a great summer. That's an expression
I've not been used to. So although we're in Wellington, so.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know today last night I was freezing.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
It was a bit more like a December day in
the UK.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Okay, yeah, I'm gonna yelled at we need to go
to the DS. But thank you very much and good luck.
We'll keep in touch and we'll give you plenty of
notice when we need your expert comments.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
But thank you, thanks neck, Happy Christmas.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Matt Prosser, who is the CEO of Wellington. I'm not
going to call him the new CEO because he's been
here eight months. He is the CEO of Wellington and
I think he's going to do a good job. I
hope he's going to do a good job. I pray
he's going to do a good job.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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