June 3, 2025 • 11 mins
New Zealand First has had its strongest showing in two recent polls in years - and leader Winston Peters says the support for his party comes down to voters wanting experienced leaders.
Peters joined Nick Mills to discuss the first eighteen months of the Parliamentary term, as well as his view of Labour and his relationship with Prime Minister Christopher Luxon.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
B We are been very lucky. We've been very lucky
to get hold of the right not right honorable. It's
not the right honorable. He is the right honorable.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Winston Peters, Good morning, Winston.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
How have you enjoyed your first year, year and a
half as deputy leader?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
How have you enjoyed it?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
That's the wrong sentimental motion, actually, because it's been a
real slog. We have done so much in terms of
meeting people both here and abroad as part of the
trying to catch up on the years of COVID and
post COVID with our connections which had fallen the parts,
so to speak, as a country. So that's been a
real slog and so enjoy it is the wrong word.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
But you love that hard work, head down us up stuff,
don't you.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
So?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I mean you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I just want to know whether you think, Hey, that
was a good year and a half. I haven't wasted
my time, done a great job in that.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Context, without being immodest, we've slogged it out and cover
enormous ground and there's payoff for that in these trading
and other rangeents that we're starting to build.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I'm talking the first hour of my show, how New
Zealand suddenly have liked your style of leadership? Can you
maintain that as non deputy leader?
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Now I'm the leader of New Zealand first, and that
will go on into the twenty twenty six election. But
I think New Zealanders have begun to appreciate that. Where
some are using sound bites and you know, doing all
sorts of extraordinary things to get on TV, we're just
slogging it out around the country and big meetings, packed
(01:56):
halls and talking to New Zealanders and they're starting to
pay off. And we can't keep one paying off.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I think you're underselling yourself on your leadership ability. I
think that, and we're doing an hour on the show
because of it. I think that your style. New Zealand
has adapted to it. We think you know you're our
leader because you know you've got experience, you know politics
like nobody else in New Zealand, and we're holding on
(02:22):
to that.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Well. Look, I do have experience matters. I was a
captain rugby team. I've been a law practice in our
own business, and experience matters. Because when you do things
by pilot error, when you're running a business, the cost
is huge and like ways for a country. So I
can't emphasize that, and I just I'm astonished at how
(02:49):
many people have been promoted for public leadership roles when
they haven't had any leadership experience to speak of, and
so it's a massive til and error and the cost
of the country is huge. You're seeing at level government level,
you're seeing at national government levels, you're seeing the past
minister's failing because they were never up to the job
in the first place. And I think that's tragic.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Can I ask you how you've got on with Krystopher Leuxan?
I mean how away from the cameras, away from the cabinet,
just you and him, you are in the back of
a limousine.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
How have you got on?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Well, I've never be in the back of a litlesine.
But the four start I take up professional approach. Your job,
as difficult as it is, and as you know, taught
with risks as it is post election, is to do
what the public want. They voted and they want a
stable government. And although they won't say it that way,
(03:43):
that's what they really are looking for stable government so
they can get on with their lives without the hindrance
of the government ruining their pathway forward. And so I
shake hands with people and keep my word to the
utmost as I can. No one like Boulger or hell
and Clark will ever say I didn't do that. But
that's the friendships and all those things. So that doesn't
(04:04):
matter friendships want, but performances and in the job done
as far more important.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Are you still the king Maker?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
You've said that you're not going to work with Chris Hopkins,
so that rules out labor while he's leader. Are you
still the king maker when you made that decision so
early on.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Well, that's for the public to the side. And I
never prided myself for being the king maker. That's a
media term half done. They have called me the Queen Maker,
then they're called him the kingmaker. That's not the way
it is. The practices first, is a party world grounded
in what I might call in the responsible face of capitalism.
We understand our country's background, and we ensure that we
(04:46):
don't forget the hundreds of thousands have forgotten the New Zealanders.
They seem to be swept aside in all these political
plans and dreams and public relations exercises that go on
for politics.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So can I just interrupt you there, minister, just for
a second. I just want to ask, because I want
to get into my head as a voter. I want
to get into my Chris Hopkins is out. Would that
mean you would possibly possibly work with Labor.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
You see here, I am a mus for the next election,
and I'm answering questions in your case for the first
time for a long time, bever, and You've asked me
to tell you what I'm going to do on the
day after election in twenty twenty six. Now I'd be
forced to tell you that all I've said was and
the last time I was working with the Labor Party,
(05:34):
I've found out that many would not be honest, would
not disclosing matters that were critically part of my role,
didn't show me information that they knew that I would
oppose because it was simply wrong, and held the things
off until after the election in twenty twenty before they
disposed to the public, and I met it in mind,
because I'm never going to fal with people like that.
(05:55):
If you can be so distrustful in the first time round.
Why would I not think there would be distrustful the
second time round? So I made that statement. Okay, Answering
questions is what I'm going to do in Lutia night,
twenty twenty six. Well, I'll have a seriously enlarge caucus
who should be consoled before I talk to anyone else.
(06:16):
That's how politics responsibly work.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
With respect, Minister.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I just asked you, would you possibly, I didn't ask
what you would would with you?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Would you or not do? But anyway, let's move on.
I don't want to know.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Hey, I know what this VIC means.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Well, it's genuine in my case. Use you have'm first
been done thirty two years. I mean, you must be
very pleased with the longevity.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
It's huge to though I could ask those sort of
questions as though you go home at night and sit
on the couse and think, oh, this is fantastic being
around doing this job, as either it was sort of
the play for thirty years. It never happens that way.
Just you don't have a done job, you know. I
come up with dairy farm, and I was lucky enough
to milk cows as a young boy, and a lot
(07:01):
of the fundamentals of sort of ad cultural life. But
you never thought and sit back and sort of news
about it. Just up the morning and get on at
the time. Jobvin Pollics has been. I mean it's a
great thing for politics because you're up early. We've got
a bit left farming and polices.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Are saying, okay, let's talk about Wellington. We're a Wellington show.
Let's talk about Wellington. You have spent decades in Wellington.
We're on in a bad place. I don't want to
say we're on our knees, but we're in a bad place.
I had the Prime Minister on the show last week.
He was saying that it's all our fault. Do you
blame anyone else apart from Wellington for Wellington's problems. I mean,
(07:41):
you know we've lost a lot of government employees.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Oh look, I don't blame there weren't in people for
what's happened there. Maybe they've been absolutely well I've late
frivolous in terms of their local government vote. But the
fact is that you've had riving them out of the beehive,
an anti business, anti car attitude and it's destructive visually
(08:07):
done in Willington. I look at all those businesses you know,
and the passing by traffic which is their lifeblood, has
been drained and scarred from them, and as though that
somehow they could survive about it. If I was a
business person down there, I'd be horrified at what's going on,
because everything arounds the images from the cab, from the
then lay of the government when this again happened from
(08:29):
the beehiveant to the local government disdain for my critical operation,
which is business people come to Waken and the city
to see businessmen and women, small businessmen and big ones,
trades and excellent and career professionals. The whole thing is
designed to make that visit as difficult as anything. So
(08:51):
aren't you surprised at this destruction? I'm not, I think
a surprise that the place is still standing up.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Do you think the government, your coalition government, could have
done more to help.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Us, Yes, I do a whole lot more. This should
have got downtown and ripped that after that's done, lanes
that have been changed for everybody but a shopper. I saw,
excuse me, a marvelus letter in the paper from the
day at the other day, where have this person had
(09:22):
gone to woman Hui or fon with the agent and now,
but I didn't have an age when I was young,
had had a marvelous day doing all these sorts of things,
and stayed there for a while and went shopping and
went to the restaurants and what have you, and then
began to affect. Actually this was went in the way.
I said, no, but now it's cut changed. Now that's
(09:43):
exactly what's hapening. Weren't in I am I guessed that
there's been so little protest from the businessmen when woman
the businessmen and women have went and as to what's
happened to.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Them, because we're on they's Minister, that's why do you
still go to the Green can? I ask you if
you still go to the Green Parrot?
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Yeah? I still go and I can, but I've been
it's been so flat out like that so so a
few n that's the problem.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And you know what the other problem is, Minister, is
that Green Parrot doesn't open till one o'clock on the
border at anymore.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
It closes about ted. That doesn't work for you, doesn'
itause you're always working.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Well, I didn't survive you in tw one o'clock in
the morning.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Doesn't last long.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I know you still do. I know you do. I
know you do. Thank you very much for joining us
on well Into Mornings. Minister. It's really good to chat
to you again.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And I must get you in the studio sometime and
you've got some time and we can have a real
chat and I can really fire you up.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I think I could fire you up pretty easily.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I think you might be able to. Yes, you got
me fired up there trying to find out what I
want to do about eighty months from now.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Hey, I'm one of those poor Wellington business people.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I got a plan for my future because I'm on
my knees.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Yeah, okay, don't blame me.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I blame your Carlition government. Thank you very much. I
blame everyone. I blame everyone but myself. Bitister, what's the peters?
Thank you for joining us on the show. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks at.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
B We are been very lucky. We've been very lucky
to get hold of the right not right honorable. It's
not the right honorable. He is the right honorable.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Winston Peters, Good morning, Winston.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
How have you enjoyed your first year, year and a
half as deputy leader?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
How have you enjoyed it?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
That's the wrong sentimental motion, actually, because it's been a
real slog. We have done so much in terms of
meeting people both here and abroad as part of the
trying to catch up on the years of COVID and
post COVID with our connections which had fallen the parts,
so to speak, as a country. So that's been a
real slog and so enjoy it is the wrong word.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
But you love that hard work, head down us up stuff,
don't you.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
So?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I mean you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I just want to know whether you think, Hey, that
was a good year and a half. I haven't wasted
my time, done a great job in that.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Context, without being immodest, we've slogged it out and cover
enormous ground and there's payoff for that in these trading
and other rangeents that we're starting to build.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I'm talking the first hour of my show, how New
Zealand suddenly have liked your style of leadership? Can you
maintain that as non deputy leader?
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Now I'm the leader of New Zealand first, and that
will go on into the twenty twenty six election. But
I think New Zealanders have begun to appreciate that. Where
some are using sound bites and you know, doing all
sorts of extraordinary things to get on TV, we're just
slogging it out around the country and big meetings, packed
(01:56):
halls and talking to New Zealanders and they're starting to
pay off. And we can't keep one paying off.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I think you're underselling yourself on your leadership ability. I
think that, and we're doing an hour on the show
because of it. I think that your style. New Zealand
has adapted to it. We think you know you're our
leader because you know you've got experience, you know politics
like nobody else in New Zealand, and we're holding on
(02:22):
to that.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Well. Look, I do have experience matters. I was a
captain rugby team. I've been a law practice in our
own business, and experience matters. Because when you do things
by pilot error, when you're running a business, the cost
is huge and like ways for a country. So I
can't emphasize that, and I just I'm astonished at how
(02:49):
many people have been promoted for public leadership roles when
they haven't had any leadership experience to speak of, and
so it's a massive til and error and the cost
of the country is huge. You're seeing at level government level,
you're seeing at national government levels, you're seeing the past
minister's failing because they were never up to the job
in the first place. And I think that's tragic.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Can I ask you how you've got on with Krystopher Leuxan?
I mean how away from the cameras, away from the cabinet,
just you and him, you are in the back of
a limousine.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
How have you got on?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Well, I've never be in the back of a litlesine.
But the four start I take up professional approach. Your job,
as difficult as it is, and as you know, taught
with risks as it is post election, is to do
what the public want. They voted and they want a
stable government. And although they won't say it that way,
(03:43):
that's what they really are looking for stable government so
they can get on with their lives without the hindrance
of the government ruining their pathway forward. And so I
shake hands with people and keep my word to the
utmost as I can. No one like Boulger or hell
and Clark will ever say I didn't do that. But
that's the friendships and all those things. So that doesn't
(04:04):
matter friendships want, but performances and in the job done
as far more important.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Are you still the king Maker?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
You've said that you're not going to work with Chris Hopkins,
so that rules out labor while he's leader. Are you
still the king maker when you made that decision so
early on.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Well, that's for the public to the side. And I
never prided myself for being the king maker. That's a
media term half done. They have called me the Queen Maker,
then they're called him the kingmaker. That's not the way
it is. The practices first, is a party world grounded
in what I might call in the responsible face of capitalism.
We understand our country's background, and we ensure that we
(04:46):
don't forget the hundreds of thousands have forgotten the New Zealanders.
They seem to be swept aside in all these political
plans and dreams and public relations exercises that go on
for politics.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So can I just interrupt you there, minister, just for
a second. I just want to ask, because I want
to get into my head as a voter. I want
to get into my Chris Hopkins is out. Would that
mean you would possibly possibly work with Labor.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
You see here, I am a mus for the next election,
and I'm answering questions in your case for the first
time for a long time, bever, and You've asked me
to tell you what I'm going to do on the
day after election in twenty twenty six. Now I'd be
forced to tell you that all I've said was and
the last time I was working with the Labor Party,
(05:34):
I've found out that many would not be honest, would
not disclosing matters that were critically part of my role,
didn't show me information that they knew that I would
oppose because it was simply wrong, and held the things
off until after the election in twenty twenty before they
disposed to the public, and I met it in mind,
because I'm never going to fal with people like that.
(05:55):
If you can be so distrustful in the first time round.
Why would I not think there would be distrustful the
second time round? So I made that statement. Okay, Answering
questions is what I'm going to do in Lutia night,
twenty twenty six. Well, I'll have a seriously enlarge caucus
who should be consoled before I talk to anyone else.
(06:16):
That's how politics responsibly work.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
With respect, Minister.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I just asked you, would you possibly, I didn't ask
what you would would with you?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Would you or not do? But anyway, let's move on.
I don't want to know.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Hey, I know what this VIC means.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Well, it's genuine in my case. Use you have'm first
been done thirty two years. I mean, you must be
very pleased with the longevity.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
It's huge to though I could ask those sort of
questions as though you go home at night and sit
on the couse and think, oh, this is fantastic being
around doing this job, as either it was sort of
the play for thirty years. It never happens that way.
Just you don't have a done job, you know. I
come up with dairy farm, and I was lucky enough
to milk cows as a young boy, and a lot
(07:01):
of the fundamentals of sort of ad cultural life. But
you never thought and sit back and sort of news
about it. Just up the morning and get on at
the time. Jobvin Pollics has been. I mean it's a
great thing for politics because you're up early. We've got
a bit left farming and polices.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Are saying, okay, let's talk about Wellington. We're a Wellington show.
Let's talk about Wellington. You have spent decades in Wellington.
We're on in a bad place. I don't want to
say we're on our knees, but we're in a bad place.
I had the Prime Minister on the show last week.
He was saying that it's all our fault. Do you
blame anyone else apart from Wellington for Wellington's problems. I mean,
(07:41):
you know we've lost a lot of government employees.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Oh look, I don't blame there weren't in people for
what's happened there. Maybe they've been absolutely well I've late
frivolous in terms of their local government vote. But the
fact is that you've had riving them out of the beehive,
an anti business, anti car attitude and it's destructive visually
(08:07):
done in Willington. I look at all those businesses you know,
and the passing by traffic which is their lifeblood, has
been drained and scarred from them, and as though that
somehow they could survive about it. If I was a
business person down there, I'd be horrified at what's going on,
because everything arounds the images from the cab, from the
then lay of the government when this again happened from
(08:29):
the beehiveant to the local government disdain for my critical operation,
which is business people come to Waken and the city
to see businessmen and women, small businessmen and big ones,
trades and excellent and career professionals. The whole thing is
designed to make that visit as difficult as anything. So
(08:51):
aren't you surprised at this destruction? I'm not, I think
a surprise that the place is still standing up.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Do you think the government, your coalition government, could have
done more to help.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Us, Yes, I do a whole lot more. This should
have got downtown and ripped that after that's done, lanes
that have been changed for everybody but a shopper. I saw,
excuse me, a marvelus letter in the paper from the
day at the other day, where have this person had
(09:22):
gone to woman Hui or fon with the agent and now,
but I didn't have an age when I was young,
had had a marvelous day doing all these sorts of things,
and stayed there for a while and went shopping and
went to the restaurants and what have you, and then
began to affect. Actually this was went in the way.
I said, no, but now it's cut changed. Now that's
(09:43):
exactly what's hapening. Weren't in I am I guessed that
there's been so little protest from the businessmen when woman
the businessmen and women have went and as to what's
happened to.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Them, because we're on they's Minister, that's why do you
still go to the Green can? I ask you if
you still go to the Green Parrot?
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Yeah? I still go and I can, but I've been
it's been so flat out like that so so a
few n that's the problem.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And you know what the other problem is, Minister, is
that Green Parrot doesn't open till one o'clock on the
border at anymore.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
It closes about ted. That doesn't work for you, doesn'
itause you're always working.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Well, I didn't survive you in tw one o'clock in
the morning.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Doesn't last long.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I know you still do. I know you do. I
know you do. Thank you very much for joining us
on well Into Mornings. Minister. It's really good to chat
to you again.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And I must get you in the studio sometime and
you've got some time and we can have a real
chat and I can really fire you up.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I think I could fire you up pretty easily.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I think you might be able to. Yes, you got
me fired up there trying to find out what I
want to do about eighty months from now.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Hey, I'm one of those poor Wellington business people.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I got a plan for my future because I'm on
my knees.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Yeah, okay, don't blame me.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I blame your Carlition government. Thank you very much. I
blame everyone. I blame everyone but myself. Bitister, what's the peters?
Thank you for joining us on the show. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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