How Pat Buchanan, Secret Nazi, Paved The Way For Donald Trump

In Episode 73, Robert is joined by Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston to discuss Pat Buchanan. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hmm, what's surprisingly learning that your family members supported anti
Semitic politicians. My me, I'm Robert Evans hosted Behind the Bastards.
This was another trademark terrible opening, perfect, perfect, I'll buy it.

(00:21):
But that are the better My guests are as as
with probably the one that came before this this week,
cos it is we are indeed that those people. That's true.
In today's episode, working title is Pat Buchanan, my dad's
favorite Nazi perfect title. What do you working title? No,

(00:43):
this is some blue harvest nonsense. No, we're calling it that.
I love it. So, how y'all doing today? The same
day that we recorded the episode on free speech grifting?
Still well, slightly more tired, but a little more tired.
But yeah, my dog's out a questionable day care facility
at the moment. We'll see how it goes. I keep
thinking about him, But other than that, I'm great. Yeah,

(01:04):
but you know it's good for character. Yeah, I guess
he's a little dog. And he popped him in and
I was like, great, And I peeked in the window
where they popped him in. It's exclusively big dogs, and
little Benny was like in the corner, unhappy, just like
shocked what his world has become. I felt like I
betrayed him or something. That reminds me of the time
that I got dropped off at kindergarten. But it turned

(01:26):
out it was actually Brandeis University. Yeah, it was, it was.
It was quite the comedy of errors. Anyway, I wound
up being the dean. Thank you, big step up what
you were expecting. Yeah, quite a life. I have had
quite a life. Yeah. Yeah, So you guys, we need
to talk about Pat Buchanon. Pat. It's Pat. Whenever I

(01:50):
hear his name, I think it's Pat. Oh boy. And
that's especially appropriate because if there's one thing Pat Buchanan hates,
it's the concept of ginger ambiguity. Yes, other than that,
what do you all know about Peebuke Pebuck? Not much?
I mean, I know I've read some of his his
work work. Yea, his name comes up often when reading

(02:14):
about the topic of cultural Marxism. Um, I would which
you do? Which I do? I would probably uh call
him like not this is the Godfather, but the godfather
part two of ye of that idea? Um, he's a
he's a evangelical type of ship. We'll talk about what

(02:36):
he is Patrick Joseph be Cannon was born on November two.
His father was a partner in an accounting firm and
his mother was a nurse. He was one of nine children,
six brothers, two sisters. He was born in d c
where his family lived, but his family had most of
its roots in Mississippi. Pat's grandfather fought for the Confederacy

(02:58):
during that whole Yeah, I wrote kerfuffle, but I used
that in the previous episode. I use it too many
times because I was shocked to realize it's an actual word. Really, Yeah,
kerfuffles a word. If you spell that, you are shocked.
I was shocked. Yeah. Yeah, Now Pat grew proud of
his Confederate roots, would later join the Sons of Confederate

(03:20):
Veterans Heritage Not Hate. As a young boy, Buchanan's heroes
were right wing politicians Senator Joseph McCarthy and Francisco Franco.
You left it, you left at the first one. I
didn't get to the second one. Okay, did you hear
the second I heard it? I laughed over the second one.
Dictator of Spain. Yeah. In a two thousand twelve column

(03:42):
for The Quad City Times, Buchanan would write off the
carpet bombing of Guernica by Nazi planes supporting Franco as
a minor crime compared to the aerial bombings that would
come later, which is quite a take. Not a hot
take because it's a century later. Yeah, but take does
it take? That is a take. That is a take
a person. It's not that bad that he annihilated that

(04:05):
city from the air, because look at all the worst
annihilations of cities from the air. Wow. I never thought
about like that. Thank you for contributing to the intellectual discourse.
I never thought about other stuff. He ends the column
by noting, unlike Mussolini, Franco remained a non belligerent in
the World War, returned US pilots who came down in
Spain and agreed to a post war alliance with the

(04:26):
United States. Non intervention in the Spanish Civil War worked
out just fine. Okay, So that makes him Okay, you're
just fine, just fine. I love all these like people
like like the problem with like Mussolini was like that,
he like just started problem. The problem Taylor is like
he's like a glow like global over. Oh you're predicting
where this is going to go. Anyway, yeah, he said,

(04:51):
the non intervention the Spanish Civil War worked out just fine.
For reference, the Francoist government is known to have killed
at minimum around a hundred and ten thousand people for
crimes such as reading liberal newspapers and not supporting the
military coup. Many of those killed were literally flung from
cliffs to their deaths. The actual death toll from Franco's
terror maybe several hundred thousand, although due to the political
nature of all of this, getting accurate death counts is

(05:11):
a bit impossible. But I would not describe that as
working out just fun if you compared to other things,
though we all have our opinions. I do. I do
like it to compare things to other things. Like the
other day, a friend of mine let me drive their car,
and I was very drunk, and I crashed it into

(05:33):
a retaining wall. Uh, And it turned out their daughter
was in the backseat, and they got very angry about
the fact that their car and their daughter are both
no longer with us. But but compared to the Holocaust
that I was about to get disgusted with you, but
now I think, thank you. Compared to the Dresden air raids,

(05:53):
I'm responsible. I am going to use that officer. I
know it looks bad what I'm doing here with all
this acid and all these firearms, but you considered comparing
it to the tet offensive not nearly as bad as
the tet offensive. Huh, might I sit serial murderers and

(06:17):
a span interview with Brian lamb Uh Pat Buchanan would
later recall, well, my father was very much an autocratic,
very autocratic. As I mentioned right from the beginning on
an earlier book. His three political heroes were Joe McCarthy,
General McArthur, and General Francisco Franco of Spain, the Catholic
who finished off a communist. He later wrote in his
book From Right from the Beginning that he adopted his
father's heroes as his own, seeing them as men who

(06:39):
were fighters, men who raged war relentlessly against the true enemy.
Funny thing to value more relentless. It's interesting to me,
the different, the different. That's that sentence that picked up on.
It really speaks to the differences in your personnelity and
our whole dynamic. Interesting. Interesting, everybody's learning a lot. We're

(07:06):
also all getting a lot of use out of this
voice kind of approached discourse. Ye voice make makes a
point by not actually saying anything. Yeah, just by it.
I have it. Of course you do. You've got a
Holmes at pat was raised as a Catholic pre Vatican two,
which means he grew up with that old time religion,

(07:27):
elaborate Baroque ceremonies conducted entirely in ecclesiastic Latin. One gets
the feeling from other things. He wrote that he wishes
the Church had stayed that way. Buchanan graduated college with
a degree in journalism and started his working career as
an editorial writer with the St. Louis Globe Democrat. He
wrote vociferously against trade with communist Cuba. In the nineteen
sixty four became a supporter of arch conservative Barry Goldwater,

(07:48):
the man who was the reason psychiatrists are not allowed
to weigh in on the mental health of presidential candidates. Yeah.
In nineteen sixty six, he was hired as an opposition
searcher for the Nixon campaign. He gained the nickname Mr
Inside for dropping numerous Easter eggs in the Nixon speeches
aimed at very far right stalwarts in the party. He

(08:09):
was also a big advocate that conservatives should aim to
be anti establishment as a way to gain votes. He
coined the term silent majority during a speech he helped
write for Nixon to address hundreds of thousands of banned
to Vietnam protesters in October of nineteen sixty nine. By that, yeah,
I am very for him coining phrases that we all

(08:30):
work at that. It's a good phrase. Who wouldn't want
to be part of asilument? Wouldn't want to be a
part of the silence? Two things. I love silence and majorities. Yes,
put them together. Put them together. You got a movement,
you got you got a movement that's very quiet, very quiet.
There's a ninja joke in there somewhere, but I didn't
come up with it fast enough. So somebody out there

(08:51):
will work it out. You got it, You got it.
Tweet tweet us your ninja ninja joke about the sound
in Jordan's As a night in the Nixon White House.
Pat Buchanan was a constant us against racial integration. The
true enemy, Yes, well he was talking about the true enemy,
according to The New Republic. In Right from the Beginning,
which is a pet you can In book, Buchanon describes

(09:12):
how in the early nineteen sixties, who wrote editorial slamming
the civil rights movement based on documents provided by the FBI.
You can and also argues that the segregated Washington he
grew up in, where blacks were disenfranchised, was a better
and more humane city than what it later became. Here
hearing a lot about that these days too, about the
humaneness of human beings being forced to use different water,

(09:33):
from how the communities and society was better because of segregation,
and actually integrating um caused more problems than just And
so I wonder if any of the people making that
argument have ulterior motives. Wonder I don't. I know, it
sounds like something based purely in fact, in science and studies. Now,

(09:56):
among other things, pep you Cannon suggested his boss, the President,
reading our icle in The Atlantic by Richard Hernstein, like o,
author of a little book you might have heard of
called the Bell Curve. No, not the Bell jar. Don't
mistake the two. I do not. I do like to
think of Nixon reading Sylvia Plath and evidence of a
good cry like that. That's kind of fun to think,

(10:24):
Buchanan wrote in a memo to the President Basically, Hernstein's
article demonstrates that heredity, rather than environment, determines intelligence, and
that the more we proceed to provide everyone with a
good environment, surely the more heredity will become the dominant
factor in their intelligence and thus in their success and
social standing. It is almost the iron law of intelligence
that is being propounded here based on heredity. The importance

(10:46):
of this article is difficult to understate, if correct, than
all our efforts and expenditures not only for compensatory education,
but to provide an equal chance at the starting liner,
guaranteeing that we wind up with the intelligent ones coming
in first. And every study we have shows blacks fifteen
IQ points below whites on the average pet Buchanan, Okay, okay, okay.

(11:08):
Is that part of why Nixon started the e p A.
Oh geez No, I don't think so. Okay, I don't
think so. I don't think that's what they're talking I
think when they talk about environment, they're talking about like, um,
this the quality of the school. Oh yeah, I know,
I know, but like it's there's like m h. If
that's why Nixon created the e p A, that would
be a actually shockingly progressive way to look at racist like, well,

(11:32):
then we need to get the toxins out of right,
we gotta make sure it will be a weird loop
for I don't think that's the case though, But I
don't know anything about the funding of the e p A.
I don't want to, Like, I think part of it
was that, like they were upset with like the liberal
consensus that like, yeah, it doesn't matter, we'll have to
talk about that as we know what the funk we're

(11:52):
talking about, unlike certain professor doctors who just love talking
about things they know about episodes previous episode, and people
calling themselves neuroscientists and evolutionary biologists when they're clinical psychologists now.
So yeah, you know, he might have guess Peppycanon had
some attitudes towards the intelligence of black people. Seems like

(12:12):
it sounds like it. His views on gay people were
no more charitable. He believed homosexuality led inevitably to the
decay of society. In nineteen seventy seven, he wrote this,
homo sexuality, then, is not some civil right and a
healthy society. It will be contained, segregated, controlled, and stigmatized,
carrying both a legal and social sanction. Strong words. Pat

(12:34):
Pebuke put them in camps. Um. I mean this is
all proto. Now. Everything he's saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah, pepucan and is proto. Now that's a that's
a good way to look at this guy's It's like
a Star Wars name. It does sounding stories name it
does now. After Nixon resigned in nineteen seventy four for

(12:56):
reasons that no but he uh knows anything about, Cannon
took up a post as a special advisor to Gerald Ford.
He continued to write prolific opinion columns and make his
voice heard within national politics. Here's a quote from another
piece he wrote in nineteen seventy seven. Though Hitler was
indeed racist, in anti Hitler, Hitler, you know it's not

(13:18):
gonna go only because he was a globalist. Well not quite,
not yet. Yeah. Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti
Semitic to the court, a man who without compunction would
commit murder in genocide, he was also an individual of
great courage, the soldier soldier, the political organizer of the
first rank, a leader steeped in the history of Europe,
who possessed oratorical policy powers that could all even those

(13:39):
who despised him. What's the what's the point? Like, what
is is that worth? Like it's like, ye, man, he's
a rapist, but he cooks a good steak. Got to
give him that. No, I don't got to give him
anything because he didn't. He's like, I understand that he
was racist and anti Semitic. I don't care. Yeah, racists
like a monster, and he did a lot of hearts things,

(13:59):
but at least he was able to rile everybody up,
like he was a good soldier, like all the other
good soldiers who didn't grow up to be Hitler. He
was all of those things, but he was a real
man becase he waged a relentless war against the end
the only good speaker. Yeah, it's like, why do you

(14:19):
need to like we all know Hitler was, Like it's
one thing to say like Hitler was a soldier who
performed adequately in combat. Hitler was a rousing speaker. It's
another thing to like frame it this way where you're like,
but we all talk about the bad part Hitler, but
let's give the guy some credit. It's like he's saying, like,
if this word different era, he could be one of
my heroes. Yeah, right, it's taking these like statements that

(14:41):
you can make and turning them into compliments, like why
why do you need why do you feel compelled to compliment?
Observes the reality without making a compliment, right, It just
it feels like, uh, it feels like it's a guy
he admires, but the Holocaust had right to acknowledge that

(15:02):
there were those things that he actually doesn't really care
about me. This is and this is a phrase and
viewpoint you see sort of spread out a lot now
these days of like the idea that uh, Hitler was
good and right up until like yeah, there's always a
point for the Hitler. It's like, oh, he was good
until this one date and like then it was all bad.

(15:23):
That is that is that maybe maybe that you're you're
talking about it was like being let up to and
like maybe a lot of the things that happened like
sort of it's just it's wild. And if you if
you actually have you, if you are someone with like
an an actual intellectual curiosity and when Hitler went bad.
There's a good book called Explaining Hitler with it just
like his baby pictures, like the cover of the book.

(15:45):
The whole book is about like what the funk happened
here there that deals with all of the stuff that
he's talking about without compliments. Fucking Hitler. Yeah, I really
recommend that book. Um. Yeah. In the mid nineteen eighties,
pet Buchanan became a television news commentator, working on a
show called The Buchanan Branden Program, where he argued with

(16:07):
a token liberal. It seems to have been a prototype
of Fox's later hit show Hannity and Combs Next. According
to Blood and Politics by Leonard Zeskin, which another great book,
by the midnineteen eighties he had started waiving the bannery
that became the white nationalism's clarion call in the twenty
first century. Quote from Buchanan, The central objection to the
present flood of illegals, he wrote in nineteen eighty four,

(16:28):
is that they are not English speaking white people from
Western Europe. They're Spanish speaking, brown and black people from Mexico,
Latin America, and the Caribbean. Buchanan even explicitly posed the
question of whether the United States would remain a white nation. Apparently,
the descendants of Africans brought in chains, the Mestizo population
of the Southwest and the Chinese laborers have built the
railroads where either invisible to Buchanan's historical lie, or not
to be counted as natural citizens of the nation. He

(16:50):
also exhibited a nervous disbelief in the charges leveled against
those believed to be war criminals. At different times he
rose to defend Arthur Randolph, Carol Lennis, Kurt Waldheim, John
dem Janak, and others. Those were all SS guys who
went on trial in dem jan X case. Buchanan's skepticism
of Justice Department actions ultimately proved justified several key points
of evidence. Buchanan challenge more than just the rules of

(17:11):
evidence using cases against war criminals. However, as an aide
to President Reagan, he helped formulate in nineteen eighty two
trip to the military graves at Bitburg, Germany. At Buchanan's
behest Reagan memorialized the Waffen s S along with ordinary
Weverrmacht soldiers, setting off international protests at the honoring of
Hitler's henchman. Buchanan added to the outrage when he claimed
that Jews could not have been guessed by diesel engines

(17:32):
at the Nazi concentration camp at Treblinkap. He was soon
publicly and widely accused of giving aid and comfort to
those like the Institute for Historical Review that maintained the
Holocaust didn't happen. So yeah, we got this Holocaust denial here.
Now we can in support for having the President visit
Waffen s. S Graves brought him into conflict with Elie Wizell,
Holocaust survivor, author of Night and chairman of the US
Holocaust Memorial Council. Now Wiel thought that it was a

(17:55):
bad idea for the president to lay reaths on the
graves of war criminals. This deeply stoff Pat Buchanan. Other
White House stafferds report that he kept writing the phrase
succumbing to the pressure of the Jews during his in
his notes during a meeting with Well my God. And
again these are other Republicans being like, he kept writing
over and over again about the Jews in his meeting

(18:16):
with this Holocaust, so furious that he just has scribbled
his note out, punching holes in his notebook every time
he fucking dots a j Yeah, gosh, a gross Pat
pat chew out man. It's Pat. It's Pat. It's Pat boy.
So few of our listeners are going to get you

(18:38):
just have to go look up. It's pat. You just
gotta watch what twenty seven years of Saturday Night Life.
There's got to be some clip compilations. Don't worry, it's
a reference from five years ago. It was a funny
joke when my dad was a kid. Yeah, it's before
our time. Let's not aid ourselves making copies. Keep doing it, boy. Yeah.

(19:02):
Just on that note, I tried to show my little
brother Wayne's world a couple of years ago. Really hard
to introduce the new generations to Wayne's world. He kind
of had to be there. Yeah, yes, yeah, that makes sense,
speaking of you had to be there. Pe Buchanan also
started speaking about what he called a so called Holocaust
survivor syndrome, which according to him, involved group fantasies of

(19:23):
martyrdom and heroics. Yeah, Peppugan and everybody. Buchanan's big break
with the Republican Party would come in the early nineteen
nineties when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait and President George Bush
the First started beating the drums of war. Now, Buchanan
was very much an isolationist. He sat down on the
mcgloculin Report, then one of America's most influential political debate
shows and complained there are only two groups that are

(19:44):
beating the drums for war in the Middle East, the
Israeli Defense Ministry and it's amen corner in the United States.
He later added that Israel was pushing America to expend
the blood of its children in a proxy war. The
Israelis want this war desperately because they want the United
States to destroy the Iraqi war machine. They want us
to wish them off. They don't care about our relations
with the Arab world. Buchanan called Israel a strategic albatross

(20:05):
draped across the neck of the United States. He specifically
blamed New York Times editor A M. Rosenthal, Assistant Secretary
of Defense Richard Pearl, columnists Charles Croudhammer and Henry Kissinger
for promoting the Gulf War. You may note that all
of those men are Jewish. You may also note that
Pat Buchanan's list of people in pushing America towards war
with Iraq did not include any gentles like say, George h.

(20:30):
President doing it peculiar. Buchanan further complained in a column
that Americans who would die in Iraq would be kids
with names like McAllister Murphy Gonzalez and Leroy Brown. Wow,
it's always ended that Leroy Brow and I want to

(20:53):
stay right here unequivocally that I reject the idea that
Leroy Brown could possibly have been defeated by the wreck because,
in case you were not aware, he was the baddest
man in the whole damn town, matter than old King
Kong and meaner than a junkyard dog. Yeah, I mean
that's who you want, that's how you want going to
fight bad example, Pat Pat Jesus Christ, like McAllister Murphy

(21:17):
Gonzalez and like, what the fuck Pat Jesus Oh, the
baddest man in the whole dang the baddest man in
the whole damn town. God, Like I do love Jim
cross Ums like three last names. And then it's one
of those things where like I should be angrier. But
this is literally the third reference to Jim Crows songs

(21:40):
that I've managed to work into one of my podcasts.
I'm very proud of How I Am on a roll. Yeah,
it's just did the same song twice and they're both fantastic,
both just amazing songs. Incredible. Yeah, anyway you can interfusal
the whole ranks, with his fellow Republicans deeply piste off
other conservatives. William F. Buckley, editor of the National Review,

(22:01):
wrote an essay accusing Buchanan of anti Semitism, but these
charges did not bring an in to Buchan's career or
his political relevance. In fact, thanks to a little fellow
named David Duke, he was about to become more prominent
and influential than ever before. Then they're kind of David.
There is, there is every every time here. You guys

(22:25):
need a racist David Duke. Don't you worry about it?
Sometimes I picture these is like little animated stories when
you're telling it to me and write down I was,
and then he popped up, pops right in. I love
him so much. He looks like a lizard's ghost these days.
Every now and then, I remember he was at fucking Charlottesville,
and like, yeah, God damn it, David Duke. Like maybe

(22:48):
it's a sign you shouldn't be there. David Duke shows up.
But you know who is good when they show up?
The people who offer services and products. That that's what's good,
is the products and services supporting the show. I got it.

(23:10):
I think we all want with products and services. This fine,
we do all win products. We're back. That was great though.
It was great break. I'm gonna buy it. You're gonna
buy it and gonna buy what it was. I hope

(23:31):
it was something, probably cans. It was Dick pills or
Microsoft Surface tablet. Either way, fine products. I mean I'd
take a Microsoft surface tablet, man service books. Actually what
I read all of the episodes of the show on
a great laptop. I have wanted the really really good laptops. Yeah,
you have one, I'd like one. Anyhow, David Duke could

(23:54):
become the grand Master of the KKK in nine four.
This chief innovation was merging new progressive elements of Nazism
with the old stagi racist traditions and terrorist habits of
the KKK. He's an innovator, Cody. You gotta respected in
gotta you gotta reinhart this KKK. You've got good bones.
You got gotta do a little overhaul. I just imagine

(24:15):
a truck full of Klansmen hitting like a panther tank.
You've got Nazis and Mike Clansmen. Got Klansman in my Nazis?
Say your grandfathers K Christ is KKK and then it's
like xxx triple extreme KKK because that was necessary. Now.

(24:38):
Duke and moderate infamy for running a clan border watch
and when he left the KKK in nineteen eighty he
formed the National Association for the Advancement of White People,
which I mean, if I don't know, if you guys
are paying attention by in nineteen eighty rough years for
white guy. Yeah, that was bad for white people. Yeah,
it was a rough time. So I got Thank god
we moved past those days. In night nine he was left.

(25:00):
It is a representative in the Louisiana House of Representatives
winning that's too much. That's too much. Yeah, so he
got He got elected in Louisiana. According to the Daily
Beast quote, Duke touted himself as a pro life, fiscal
conservative was known as an ex clan leader. He is
schewed overly racist language and instead pointed a crime in
the city, criticizing affirmative action and minority set asides see

(25:23):
by x senaying on the racism just a little bit,
not even a lot, just just just a scooch and
emphasizing crime and focusing on his desire to shut down
welfare and stop affirmative action, Duke was able to build
a surprisingly strong coalition of voters for a guy who
had literally marched in public wearing a Nazi uniform. Good
for him, for him, Duke continued to run for numerous

(25:44):
positions during the late nineteen eighties, including the U. S.
Senate and the presidency. He ran in nineteen nine two,
as well, opposing President George H. W. Bush from the
right as an isolationist, hammering him on taxation and on
the Gulf War. Since he'd one hundreds of thousands of
votes in Louisiana, he was considered a real threat to
Bush's chance since he was running as a member of
the Populist Party and wouldn't need to drop out after
primary season now. Duke's campaign faltered, thankfully as soon as

(26:07):
he left Louisiana, due to his inability to use the
Republican Party staff members to aid his campaign that he'd
used in Louisiana, and also due to the fact that
Americans outside of Louisiana were less tolerant of than neo
Nazi presidential candidate. To try and with him, Duke focused
on the an American First isolationist policy origin withdrawal from NAFTA,
protective tariffs, and an attack on multiculturalism and immigrant rights.

(26:29):
There it is. And of course, watching from the sidelines, well,
our little buddy Pat Buchana patch back now he saw
what Duke had managed to build despite the handicap of
being a literal Nazi, and realized, Shit, if I dress
this up, I can, like, I can take this lady
out on the town step further. Yeah I can. Good luck, Yeah,

(26:52):
good luck, good luck. Think. Several weeks before Pat announced
his own entrance to the campaign, he gave this advice
to Republicans. The way to do battle with David Duke
is not to go ballistic. Because Duke, as a teenager
paraded around in a Nazi costume to protest William Kunstler
during Vietnam, or to shout to the heavens that Duke
had the same phone number last year as the ku

(27:14):
Klux Klan. Everybody in med Airy knows that the way
to deal with Mr Duke is the way the Goop
dealt with the far more formidable challenge of George Wallace.
Take a hard look at Duke's portfolio of winning issues
and expropriate those not in conflict with Geop principles. That's
how you beat the literal fascist is take some ideas,
or if you can't, et cetera, do it. Do what

(27:38):
they say now. During the Cold War, America's conservatives had
literally been the opposite of isolationists, urging intervention all over
the damn world in order to fight communism and make
the world safe for, say, fruit companies. After the fall
of the USSR, the Republicans found themselves lashed briefly by chaos.
Unsure of where to swing next, Buchanan essentially charted a
new course for the American right isolationism. He wrote in

(28:02):
Shaping Post Cold War Foreign Policy, the contest will be
between acolytes of globalism and advocates of a new nationalism America. First,
I don't know why we're all snapping, but it feels right.
But it feels right, It feels right. I love the
things we do for this audio medium in which we
were gotta keep it, keep it snappy. Anything. Yet today

(28:26):
I have not, Well, no I did. I the last one,
the bottle across the thing right today being whatever. So
I'm gonna take a quick break, and I've got I've
got a closed and mostly empty bottle of Kirkland brand
purified water. And I have my Rusty machette, which I
made sure was rusty before. Of course trusty. Well it
is trusty and rusty, and I'm gonna see if I

(28:47):
can hit those lights on the roof. Nope, that was
a line drive. I did. It did go a lot
further farther than the can, farther than the can because
there's a little water. Yeah, so America first cool, the
first cool, very cool. I disagree, but go on. Now.
The Populist Party embraced Buchanan with even more vigor and

(29:07):
hope than they'd embraced David Duke. There was widespread fantasy
among populists that Buchanan would leave the Republican Party and
join them. For reference, the Populist Party was founded by
a fellon named Willis Carto. You guys ever heard of
Willis Carto. So we're talking about fascists, talking about the
fascist movement. There's two two branches of it, two big, old,

(29:28):
big brindy branches of it. Now you got your van gardists,
and those are the guys who want to go all
there's the guys want to go Turner Diers, You're like,
what don't we just kill people until society collapses and
then take over an orgy of blood and violence. And
then you got your main streamers, and those are the
people who are like, what if we just convince all
white people that being a nazis the way to go.
Willis Carto was one of the convinced all of the

(29:50):
white people that being a nazis the way to go.
Sort of dudes, uh now. Carto was also the founder
of a magazine called The Spotlight, which became America's hollo
aus denial paper of record, and also its editor was
a regular guest on Alex Jones show during his early days,
Yeah Big Jim Tucker. According to Blood and Politics quote,

(30:18):
the Populace argued that a realignment of the right was
taking place via a melding of populism and national conservatism
into a powerful new force. On this point, the Populace
proved to be essentially correct in their analysis. Among conservatives,
Buchanan's opposition to Bush's war plans in the New World
Order was not unique. The significance of Buchanan's transformation should
not be lost in the minutia of petty party politics.

(30:39):
He still did not fully embrace a biological determinus view
of society, but without any evident intervention by white supremacists.
PET Buchanan was talking and walking much as they did
in the Republican ranks. PET Buchanan formally announced his candidacy
for president, reclaiming the party's right flank for his own
anti New World Order politics. Just weeks before, Buchanan had
urged Republicans to adopt Duke's issues. Buchanan believe Duke's message

(31:01):
was middle class, meritocratic, populist and nationalist. So which election was, Yeah, yeah,
the election that brought us Bill Clintons. So yeah. So
Buchanan did well enough to get on the ballot in
most American states, and he ran a solid primary campaign.
Voters abandoned David Duke and droves to flock to a

(31:22):
guy who was basically him, but without the baggage of
all the swats because he had worn Buchanan drew in
America's fascist right while also pulling and disaffected middle Americans
by visiting factories and small town diners and forgotten parts
of the country. On February eighteenth, Buchanan won thirty seven
percent of the New Hampshire primary, losing the Bush, but
doing well enough to continue his campaign now. David Duke

(31:42):
quit the presidential race in April after running out of
money and failing to win more than eleven percent in
any state Mississippi, if you're curious. In the wake of
this failure, Willis Carto's Spotlight noted that the center of
gravity of the white nationalist movement had shifted towards Pat Buchanan.
Any hope Duke had of mounting an effective challenge to
George buss ended with the entrance of Buke Hannon into
the Republican race. Duke endorsed Pat after he withdrew, and

(32:03):
Buchanan made the wise move of ignoring this, although like
another Republican a while later he did not repudiate his
endorsement either. He won thirty six percent of the vote
in Georgia in thirty two years. In Florida, Buchanan's national
support peaked in the low twenties, but began to subside
in the early summer. By the end of the primaries,
he decrued nearly three million votes in thirty four states
and raised more than fourteen million dollars. He did not

(32:25):
win the primary clearly, but Carto and his fellow fascists
saw Buchanan's campaign as a major win. One Spotlight op
ed crooned, Buchanan is saying, practically to a word, what
the Spotlight has been saying on the big issues for
many years. Aney. Things Spotlight is famous for is being
the Holocaust denial paper of record of the United States.
So that's the big issues, the big issues, the true enemy,

(32:48):
the true enemy. Interesting like multiculturalism. I also the David Duke. Um,
isn't Steve Schaleze describing himself as David Duke without the baggage?
Jesus Christ? Did he? I'm pretty sure he did. Pitch
That phrase really stuck out to me when he said that.

(33:09):
Exactly the same. But people don't know that about me yet.
Exactly the same. But I don't own a swatstika that
you know I'm aware of. I don't know. I don't
know much about Steve Schools at all, um, but I
do know a lot about Pappy. Oh good. I love that. Now.
As Buchanan's popularity became clear and clear, resistance from within

(33:29):
the Republican Party lessened, and there was a growing consensus
that he spoke for a large chunk of the conservative electorate.
One of Buchanan's chief thinkers was a dude named Sam Francis.
You've got to start writing briefing papers for the Heritage Foundation.
In the nineteen eighties, he'd started writing for The Washington Times,
which is basically a right wing Washington Post. According to
Blood and Politics, it was francis his prodigious intellect that

(33:51):
propelled the Buchanan brain trust, and that the vortex of
this intellect sworld his conception of Middle American radicals. When
Francis had written that Buchanan's Middle American Radicals represented new
social forces, he didn't mean new as inborn yesterday. In fact,
he had said much the same thing in nineteen eighty one.
By his account, Middle American Radicals, or MARS, were the
social constituency of what was then known as the New

(34:12):
Right at that time. Francis argued that Middle American Radicals
had expressed themselves in a string of movements throughout the
nineteen seventies against school bussing, for racial integration, against the
Equal Rights Amendment, against the seating of the Panama Canal,
and then finally in electing Ronald Reagan president. MARS were
both a social movement and a class not simply a
middle class and not simply an economic category, but in

(34:32):
the broadest sense, a political class. Francis declared that the
Buchanan Revolution as the emergence of a new political identity
that he believed would come to dominate right wing politics
in the future. Margins, as he called them, were anti elite,
opposed to black civil rights improvements, and, in his words,
caught in the middle between those whose wealth gives them
access to power and those whose militant organization gained special

(34:54):
treatment from the government. You see what we're building here.
It's unlike anything that comes later. It doesn't sound m
new necessarily. Yeah, three symbols. I don't know, Yeah, maybe
a little bit. At the Republican Party convention, President Bush
bowed to the influence of Pat Buchanan by giving him

(35:16):
a primetime speaking spot right before Ronald Reagan and his speech.
Buchanan stated that a culture war within America had replaced
the Cold War. My friends, this election is about much
more than who gets what. It is about who we are.
It is about what we believe. It is about what
we stand for as Americans. There is a religious war
going on in our country. For the soul of America.

(35:36):
It is a cultural war as critical to the kind
of nation we will one day become, as was the
Cold War itself. Yeah cool, Yeah, it is sounding familiar.
Who was standing a little familiar? I can't wait. Didn't
he say that he paved the way for Donald Trump
or something like that? You sure did? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
he sure did. He also sure did, sure did not.

(35:58):
He's not wrong about that. In nineteen ninety six, Pat
Buchanan ran as a Republican again, this time aimed at
unseating Clinton rather than a sitting Republican president. His popularity
was immediately shocking to the Republican Party leadership. Buchanan won
the New Hampshire primary handily by focusing on his desire
to stop foreign workers from entering the United States to
undercut American salaries. Buchanan won the highest percentage of New

(36:20):
Hampshire voters concerned about jobs in the economy. Sixty percent
of his voters described themselves as very conservative and part
of the religious right. After Super Tuesday, a poll revealed
that fifty four percent of those who considered abortion their
most important issue voted for Buchanan, along with forty six
percent of those most who were most concerned with the immigration.
Now Willis Carto's Liberty Lobby, which was basically a pack

(36:41):
for racists, and his newsletter The Spotlight endorsed Buchanan officially,
this time in their Republican Voters Guide. They noted that
the wealthy and powerful American Jewish community, popularly known as
the Jewish Lobby or the Israeli Lobby, does not like
Pat Buchanan and claimed his victory would constitute the greatest
political revel Lucian in history. Okay, would have marked a

(37:05):
pretty fust Yeah, not exactly the language that use, but yeah, yeah,
Now you can also earned the support of a group
called the Council of Conservative Citizens. Have you heard about
those guys where they're very far right lobbying group. They
have a website that hosts articles, news articles, uh and
including it's it's still run this day and one of

(37:27):
the very popular articles types of articles that they like
to host focus on what they call black on white crime.
And the Council of Conservative Citizens, interestingly enough, is the
website that was cited by Dylan Ruth and his manifesto
as the thing that radicalized him into shooting up a
black church and interesting how these people read things and
get radicalized. Yeah, that is interesting the sort of nifty,

(37:50):
hyper focused topics that choose to write about. Uh didn't.
At one point Breitbart have a black crime year did
have a black crime tap. They get rid of it
after all of the Yeah now. Buchanan also teamed up
with Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition. With all these far right
voters together, Pat was not able to beat Bob Dole,

(38:12):
but he was able to Forestole in the Republican Party
to harden their anti abortion stances and add anti immigrant
planks to the platform, demanding a change to the fourteen Amendment.
Bob Dole seated on these issues, but refused to let
Pat have a good speaking slot in the nine convention.
So brave, brave of you, Bob. Wait to stick it
to them, Thanks, Bob, stick it to the probable Nazis

(38:33):
speaking of dits, speaking of Dick Piles. Yeah, Bob Doland
made both trailblazers. Buchanan's eventual caving to the Republican Party
bummed out the white nationalists who had helped lead him
to prominence. Oh no, they're let us constituents down. The
idea of like bummed out White Sky music, just like

(38:57):
Kicking Rocks and their clanform Oh shooks, yeah uh. They'd
expected and urged him to walk out of the convention
rather than yield to the mainstream, free trade loving non
concentration camp supporting moderates of the Republican Party one Ohio
Clansmen ruefully limited. In the history of presidential politics, nine
will go down as the year that Pat Buchanan cast

(39:18):
away the political opportunity of a lifetime. He raised and
spent some thirty million, yet what is there in the
end to show for all. This would proved to be
the high water mark of Pat's presidential ambitions, but it
would not be his last major effort to secure the presidency.
He ran again in the year two thousand and this
time he didn't run as a Republican. Now, younger listeners

(39:41):
who haven't spent a lot of time watching old episodes
of The Simpsons may not remember a fun little tyke
named Ross Perow, but the rest of us do. Oh
Ross Barow. He is a preposterously rich, very very tiny
man who once owned a large chunk of the city
of Dallas. In a small mercenary army. He ran for President,
and according to Republic and Lore, he cost George H. W.

(40:01):
Bush his re election. Now, Paro ran as part of
the Reform Party, which you know, he founded the Reform Party. Yeah,
and he did well enough to qualify for federal funding
in the two thousand general election. However, Ross Parro decided
not to run in two thousands, so suddenly there was
an opening for anybody who might want to take up
his mantle. Pat Buchanan saw this as an opportunity. He

(40:22):
decided to use his good name and prominence in national
politics to try and get the job. At a convention
in Greenbelt, Maryland, Buchanan told a hundred and fifty people
about his plan to use the Reform Party to break
up the two party monopoly. He promised them if he
was elected, at that very moment, their New World Order
comes crashing down. By mentioning the n w OH, Buchanan
was directly playing towards the militia crowd, people like Tim McVeigh,

(40:44):
the Oklahoma City bomber, who believed in a secret international
conspiracy that was in the process of taking over the world.
The New World Order was also frequently called the jew
World Order, and although Pat never said those words. You
can kind of assume he felt them. Yeah. During the
Greenbelt Reform Party meeting, you can and post for a
photograph of the representative from Willis Carto's Liberty Lobby who

(41:06):
tried to hand him the latest issue of Spotlight. Buchanan
told him allegedly, I've already read it. I've got a
copy at my house. Yikes, yike, that look. In order
to press his candidacy, Peppycannon did what all good want
to be presidents do. He wrote a book, A Republic

(41:27):
Not an Empire. We're going to talk about that book
and a little bit. But first, products and services. You
got it, you got it way faster. All right, let's
get you on Jeopardy, and let's get these products. Only
if it's only topics, products and products and services just products,
and then the answers are all certain products for five services.

(41:53):
Speaking of printing money, we're back. Did you miss us?
I missed us. Now when we left, I was talking
about the book that Pat Buckinnon wrote to UH to

(42:14):
kick off his campaign, A Republic Not an Empire. Now.
A Republic Not an Empire was published by a publishing
you may have heard of called Ragnery Publishing. That publishing. Well,
you guys have heard it once before, but I don't.
I'm not surprised that you don't. You don't recognize it
when we um we did an episode earlier than about

(42:37):
the history of the American fascist movement in the twenties
and thirties, and we talked about a dude named William
Brignery Sor. He was one of the chief financial backers
of the America First Movement, a fascist political campaign in
the nineteen thirties aimed at aligning the United States with
Nazi Germany. His son runs Rignery Publishing and would later
go under fund the National Policy Institute, which of course
is where Richard Spencer came after work. Yeah, I love

(43:03):
it too. It's good stuff. Spiderweb not to be contrary,
and I hate it. Yeah, yeah, anyway. According to the
New York Times review of Buchanan's book, Mr Buchanan's thesis
that Hitler offered no physical threat to the United States
as of the late nineteen forties and the book A

(43:23):
Republic That an Empire, Mr Buchanan analyzes the history of
American foreign policy and questions whether Hitler sawt worth the
Wester was driven to it Hitler made no overt move
to threaten US vital interests. After his initial victories across
Europe in nineteen thirty nine and nineteen forty, Mr Buchanan
rights in a separate chapter criticizing the power of numerous
American ethnic groups over foreign policy. Mr Buchanan rights, after

(43:44):
World War Two, Jewish influence over foreign policy became almost
an obsession with American leaders. Yeah, pat other people are obsessed. Yeah. God.
At one point in the book, pet writes this, had
Britain and France not give in the war guarantees to Poland,
there might have been no dune Kirk, no Blitz, no Vish,

(44:04):
no destruction of the Jewish populations of Europe. What if
we just let Hitler invade Poland unchecked, there would have
been no Holocaust except for the Jews that they instantly
started killing as soon as they moved into Poland. Um
think that Holocaust happen because it was about the Like now,

(44:26):
I'm gonna blame him the Jews. I think he thinks
of like Hitler committing the Holocaust as like uh as
like a guy hitting his car because it breaks down
on him. Yeah, come on, I think the other real
thing is that he's okay with the killing, then why

(44:48):
do people care? It's not his preference. He would he
would have wish they'd have gotten moved to right, but
only because it looks bad. Because check out their platform
and I think they're three pet Thank Buchanan's campaign took
off like wildfire among fringe political circles, at least timid
slightly by the fact that one of his fundraisers, a

(45:10):
British National named Mark Carterrell, was building a network of
Buchanan supporters that included members of the National Alliance and
explicitly neo Nazi group funded by George Lincoln Rockwell disciple
William Pierce, author of the Turner Diaries. Stop It Stop painful. Oh,
you just can't keep these Nazis off of him. All

(45:31):
these all these Nazis are yeah, covered in Nazi covered
in that is that Onion article? Why all these homosexual
sucking my cock? Oh? Pat Jesus Christ? Now Pat Buchanan's
I think wife who ran his campaign, fired Mark along

(45:53):
with twenty other volunteers, which was meant to prove that
the campaign was completely intolerant of racist and fascists, But
the fact that there were more than twenty of them
to fire kind of Bliesete oh Man pet Now, Buchanan
picked at his running mate as his running mate, Zola Foster,
a sixty two year old black woman, anti immigrant activist.

(46:13):
She became a Republican during the Reagan era and joined
the John Birch Society in the mid nineteen nineties. Zola
was an outspoken advocate of the Confederate flag, which she
considered a symbol of heritage, saying the war was more
about states rights than anything else. During her acceptance speech,
she promised voters, if anybody knows a racist, I do.
Pat Buchanan ain't no racist, oh girl. If anyone of

(46:36):
all the people like the rate, I you know, I
know a racist. Uh fun times. Pat Buchanan himself promised
to redefine what it means to be a conservative in America,
and it's likely that his promises caused serious worry for
George W. Bush and crew. Remember, these folks already accepted

(46:57):
as given that Pero's Reform Party candidacy cost their last
bush An election. They were not about to let that
happen again. Enter It's such your stone and a quirky
little fella named Donald there is yeah, like the Reform Party,
like Donald Trump. According to NBC News, Trump too was

(47:18):
against NAFTA and spoke of global trade deals as a
drain on American jobs, and he was for a strict
immigration policy. We have to take care of the people
who are here, he said. But he drew a bright
line when it came to Buchanan's tone. He seems to
be a racist and accused him of cultivating support from
the bigoted fringes. On slow days, Trump wrote in an
op ed he attacks gays, immigrants, welfare recipients, even Zulus.
When cornered, he says he's misunderstood. On a trip to California,

(47:40):
between a meeting with reform activists, a paid speech, and
a taping of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, Trump
visited the Simon Wiesenthal Centers for Museum, the Center's Museum
of Tolerance, which sought to shine a light on racism
and injustice around the world. After his tour, Trump's told
reporters that Buchanan should come here and have a talk
with Rabbi Cooper and his staff and talk things out
a bit. He added, we must recognize bigotry and prejudice

(48:00):
and defeat it wherever it appears that I hate him
so much? What a god, what a absolutely opportunistic pieces. Yeah, no,
nothing means anything. That Also, like the idea of like,
oh yeah, Pat Buchanan went to the Museum of Tolerance
is like he's good now, Oh no, no, this is
Donald Trumps. No I know, but I'm saying, like he's like, oh,

(48:22):
I think I think Pat would come here. Yeah, oh yeah.
The idea that like a visit would would solve Pat Buchanan, Yeah,
go into it rather than him just like kind of
like trying to hide his his crotch from view as
he like walks through the concentrate because he's a fucking Nazi. Yeah. Um, yeah,
I think that was clear. Now. One question about Pat

(48:44):
Buchanan's Hitler wasn't all that bad book? Donald Trump said this.
Pat says Hitler had no malicious tent towards the United States.
Hitler killed six million Jews and millions of others. Don't
you think it was only a question of time before
he got to us. He tackled Europe first and we
were next. Pat's amazing. When asked whether he had read
the book, Mr Trump stated, I've seen the phrases we're
dealing with classic. I've seen the phrase. I've seen the phrases.

(49:07):
We I had to include that, Linus, that's that's uh,
that is Trump. That's Trump classic right there. Yeah, that's
really really Trump classic. I've seen the phrases we're dealing
with camp. So it's just like the like, we've seen
the phrases we're dealing with. What we're dealing with. It's
such a weird, like he talks so weird. He talks

(49:28):
very weird. He doesn't understand words, or he does, Yeah,
on a very masterful level. Yeah, who knows, not me.
Trump's campaign was able to take a significant amount of
wind out of Pet buchanan sales, but it was not
enough to stop Pet Buchanan's Reform Party candidacy. Buchanan made
his way onto the ballot in several states, including Florida.

(49:48):
In Palm Beach County, a liberal stronghold, he received three thousand,
four hundred and seven votes on first count. Local Reform
Party officials realized at once that this count was completely bogus.
Buchanan himself, in an interview, stated that only three to
four hundred of those votes were really his and the
rest were misreads, he told an interviewer the rest, I
am sure we're Gore votes. Florida's Secretary of State and
Bush campaign co chair decided that recounts were not necessary.

(50:11):
The Democrats challenged this, and the issue was taken to
the courts, leading to a final Supreme Court decision to
and the recounts. The three thousand votes Buchanan himself believed
were for al Gore went to him instead. This left
Bush ahead in Florida. So that's cool. That's uh. I
think we differ on that. I think. But it's cold
like ice cold. It's cool, ice ice frozen. Yeah, that's

(50:37):
that's a dark Yeah, that's a dark path to think
about too much. In a recent political article on his life,
Pat Buchanan was branded the Forrest Gump of politics, name
which would be aptif Forrest Gump had a ball's deep
history of anti Semitism and boarding the Nazis. But still,
you can't deny that there's something to the idea for
every major swing American politics has taken in my lifetime,

(51:00):
at least Pat Buchanan has been there to make sure
things break just a little bit worse than they otherwise
would have This pattern has continued into the Trump era.
In January of twenty nineteen, USA Today published an article
titled Trump Quotes Pat Buchanan, Full fucking Circle. Last week,
Buchanan wrote an article that implored Trump to declare a
national emergency on the southern border because mass migration from

(51:22):
the global South, not climate change, is the real existential
crisis of the West. Trump has publicly considered such a
declaration as a way to go around Congress in order
to secure funding for a wall in the US Mexico border.
On Sunday, the President quoted a portion of Buchanan's post
and a pair of tweets. The first said the Trump
portrait of an unsustainable border crisis is dead on, and
then listed a number of immigration related crime statistics. Buchanan

(51:43):
did not cite the source of the data, but the
context indicated it was from the Trump administration. The southern
border quote is eventually going to be militarized and defended,
or the United States as we have known it is
going to cease to exist, and Americans will not go
gentle into that. Good night. The second tweet quoted, now,
this is interesting to me for a reason, not to
detail Buchanan's words, which were quoted by the President, are

(52:06):
particularly fascinating in light of the christ Church shooting that
would occur roughly two months later. The shooters manifesto, titled
The Great Replacement, focused about his belief that the white
race was being exterminated through immigration from non white people
into majority white nations. The shooter ended his manifesto by
citing the same Dylan Thomas poem that Pat quoted, expressing
his desire that the white race not go gentle into

(52:28):
that good night before pumping rounds into dozens and dozens
of men, women and children from Pat. Thank you, Pat,
Thank you Pat. And that's Pat. That's Pat. That was Pat,
not Pat. What I'm about to say, but I'm not.
I'll gore. I always think, God, if you'd won, we'd

(52:49):
be so good on climate change right now, we'd be
that we'd have would have to we would have made
such modest and minor changes, yes, things for decades, this
to to that, and then it gets worse and worse,
and then you got to do more extreme things. By
It's one of those things. When I was a kid,
Pat Buchanan was a name I heard a number of times.
He was I don't think my dad was like a

(53:10):
huge backer of Pat Buchanan. Like he was a pretty
mainstream Republican voter, but he liked Pat and quote cited
him as like someone he thought really got it and
would be a good candidate. And I don't know how
much of Pat Buchanan he actually knew. I'm gonna guest
he just heard some sound bites on TV and right
this stuff that's more palatable, Yeah, not the water down

(53:31):
stuff avorting with Nazis bits. Will your dad listen to this? Oh? Yeah,
I hope so yeah, my dad, my dad, I don't
think you're a Nazi, but I think you got hoodwinked
by one. A lot of people, A lot of people,
A lot of people get hood with It's kind of
what they do, um, kind of their goal, kind of
their goal. Yeah, so awful connections of awful people throughout history.

(53:58):
They know each other too, Yeah, they all know other.
They'll agree with each other. Yeah, you could, you could,
You could like almost you you really actually really could
play uh, Like if we're doing like a degrees of
George Lincoln Rockwell and he get get George Lincoln Rockwell
directly to William Pierce to that British guy who was
on staff with Pat Buchanan to Pat the four degrees

(54:20):
not that far. What a fun game, What a fun
game you could play. I'm only one degree away from
Heinrich Hidler, by the way. Really I got to shake
hands and and have an interview with a guy who
had been in the Hitler youth when he was fourteen
when the war ended, and got to meet all of
the because they would regularly does and stuff. So yeah, yeah,

(54:41):
Herman Garring too. You won the game. I won the
Nazi game. Yeah, a terrible game that did you know?
Hitler was a good soldier? What else was it good
about soldier? Yeah? Yeah, fine, like he did he did
his job. Well, he got awards for it. Like it's yeah,

(55:02):
it's so we're a lot of men who didn't commit.
He got traumatized. He got traumatized and that's why he
did all the things. And this is again about Jordan Peters. Yeah, yeah,
it's one. I mean, it's one of those things like
it's such a messy thing, like it's totally worth discussing.
For example, Hitler spent literally four years in the trenches

(55:22):
at the very front and was exposed to an enormous
amount of artillery fire, and we have now learned in
recent years from our soldiers at constant exposure to artillery
and explosions causes essentially ct E, the same thing that
NFL players getting. Like yeah, it's there's a very good
chance that not just Hitler, but a lot of Nazis,
most of whom were veterans, may have been impacted in
some way on like a physical level by like the

(55:44):
damaged under their brains. Totally possible, reasonable thing to talk
about and want to explore, absolutely, which doesn't mitigate it
because again, a lot of people out there with ct
and traumatic brain injuries who exactly compelling, compelling point other
people yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, but it's how

(56:08):
you approach it, and it's it's there's uh again, I'm
not rant about Jordan Peterson for a long time, but
like it's the it's framing things like that that justify
the actions as opposed to exploring things that contribute to
it and not like really looking at like where does
the ideology come from? Like yeah, because because the people
who focus entirely I'm like, oh, you know, he got

(56:30):
brain damage or he get traumatized at the front this cause, well,
they ignore all that he wrote and said, and all
the people who knew him when he was in that
hostel in Vienna as a homeless young man, said about
the fact that these little tracks, which were basically like
the viral image means, it's the fucking four chain of
its time, these like anti semitic tracks that would be
printed out cheaply by the hundreds and passed around for
free on the streets of Vienna. Hitler was obsessed with

(56:51):
them and collected them and talked about them and read
them to everyone, and like that's probably more of a
factor than than any potential brain damage. Like yeah, you're
talking about like the like putting the infirm or like
to say, like disabled people in camps, like I've I've
heard Peterson talk about how like, oh, it's because you know,

(57:11):
Hitler had like this weird like O c D and
aversion to like germs and stuff, and then it got
worse and worse and worse as time went on. It's like, well, no,
it's because they didn't work and contribute to society, because
he thought that it was worth more for Germany to
win the war than those people. To refer to them
as useless eaters. It's not like the gross like it's

(57:32):
it's it's approaching it. He was ignoring other stuff. He
was disgusted by their inability to further his dreams of conquests.
Right yeah, um right, it wasn't like this weird like
oh right, yeah, it's just it's weird, like it's not
because it's not Holocaust revisionism, but like it just right

(57:53):
Hitler justificationism. Yeah yeah, it's uh, there's so many I'm
a big studying Hitler fan. There's so many dumb debates
that we have about the guy, um that are are
deeply frustrating, Like the people who will focus on the
minutia of like well, we don't have his name on
any documents signing with the Holocaust, but we don't we

(58:16):
don't actually know that it was crazy. Guys, what are
you doing? Honestly? Like, what what does the outcome you
want from this conversation? And what do you want me
to think of? You? Are you? Are you? Are you
looking at World War two and like taking out of it?
Maybe were right? That's the thing, like all these discussions

(58:38):
like what is the logical conclusion and goal of this approach?
If you extrapolate it and you go a little farther like, okay,
so you're just like it's just Hitler apologism, and then
you're justifying those actions with different justifications and making it
seem valid, like it's it's all gross again. What's the point,

(58:59):
what's the point? What's the Point's the point? What's the point?
You know what the point is? Is it not an
ad pivot? It's time for y'all to get the heck
out of here out here. My name is Katie Stole,
who I hated that. I love your name very none
of the way I said it like a cheerleader um

(59:19):
or like I was leading for a commercial audition that's
only for actors to care about. I'm Katie Stole. We
have a show, Some more News on YouTube. We've got
a podcast, even more News where you get podcasts as true.
My name is Cody Johnston. You can follow me on
Twitter dr Mr Cody or Some More News is the
Twitter account for that, also Patreon, dot com, slash Some

(59:41):
more News if you want to support the show in
some way. And I'm Katie Stole and also Katie still
on the Twitter. Yeah, and I'm not Cody Johnston's true
but I might be someday one day. If I play
my cards, he's going to wear your skin like a suit.
I'm gonna wear a skin like you got it. That's
why I got the machete punchline. All right, well, I'm

(01:00:05):
gonna parby. Should breathe the plugs before I do any cutting.
Behind the Bastards dot com is our website where you
can find the sources for this episode. You can find
me on Twitter at at bastard or I right, okay,
if you can find this podcast on Twitter, Instagram and
at Bastards pot by t shirts, cups, stickers, hand grenades
at t public Behind the Bastards, that's it. That's the show.

(01:00:28):
I'm gonna cut me. I'm glad I got to know
all that stuff before you wear my skin. Waving the
knife right like I would say, I would actually describe
this as wildly brandishing the knife I did. I wouldn't
earlier because like it's loose in my hand. The poison
room is right behind me. Yeah, Like I could crack
the poison room and we would all be in trouble.

(01:00:50):
Way more likely to break into the poison rom with
that knife than you're throwing bables I agree, I agree
the throwing. I'm glad I didn't throw the machete because
that poison room we do not want to crack, but
it keeps the energy ups. Like not today, poison Room.
There's a good chance in the next nine months or so,
but not today. All Right podcast is open