Keith Raniere: The End of A Cult Leader

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's branding my sex slaves. Boy, that's a bad intro.
Oh my gosh. When Sophie's not here, this gives off
the rail so hard. I remember what Evan's posted behind
the bastards. We're telling you about all the worse people
in all of history. My guest today Ana Selina's Anna.
How are you doing today? I'm doing great. I'm so
excited to be here now. Anna, you are, of course

(00:26):
the the the author slash artiste behind Bad Comics by
Anna Lovely Comics. Um, anything else you want to plug
up at the top? Oh god? Um? Yeah, you know,
if you're in l A, come out to you CB. Um.
I perform on some teams and check them out. Well,
you know U c B. About a year ago today

(00:46):
we we talked, well not today, but about a year ago.
We talked about how it's a little bit culty, and
we talked about them in the context of a guy
who was definitely a cult leader named Keith motherfucking R. Nearing.
We did so interesting because an article came out about
UCB like two days ago that really hinted at its cults,

(01:09):
and we are checking in about a real cult. Yeah,
and it's it's one of those things, Like I do
want to reiterate when I talk because I have a
lot of friends who are in UC be considered a
part of their lives. You've got to be careful. This
episode could get pulled, could could be pulled if I
trash talket. Thankfully that's never happened before. Um, any really

(01:29):
good thing is gonna have a couple of little CULTI
elements to it. You know, I'm a big fan of
burning Man regional events. There's a little bit of that,
a little bit, a little bit. The key is, the
key is like no cult leader, you know. The key
is the things that make a cult, like love bombing
and stuff like that. If there's no purpose behind it,
if it's just a way to make people feel welcome,
then it's not necessarily a toxic thing. Like there's all
these things that can be pieces of a cult, but

(01:51):
if you don't have all of the pieces, it can
just be like a bunch of buddies learning how to
do improf together. Yeah right, yeah, which doesn't mean that
there's not addictive aspects to that or they can't have
problematic aspects to that. And the pay in aspects, Yeah,
and the pay in aspects where you pay more to
be more in it. Yeah, that's always the thing that

(02:14):
that's always that. I think that's one of the keys
in addition to like having a cult leader's potentially it's
like how much money is being here? And I guess
when it's like a full on cult cult, Keith Ranier
style cult, that cult leader is making all the money themselves. Yes,
and uh, now that we're back to Keith Raniery, today's

(02:36):
episode is of course they say it wrong every time.
Yeah it is. Yeah, and I know I knew it
when we did it last time. But today we're talking
about the end of Keith Ranieri. Yeah, because earlier this month,
in June of two thousand and nineteen, Keith Reniery was
convicted of running a sex cult, human trafficking, racketeering, child pornography,

(02:57):
and child sexual abuse. He is a twenty year to
life sentence, and although he plans to appeal his conviction,
right now it looks like Vanguard will spend the rest
of his life in a cold So wow. Yeah, yeah,
that's good news. That is good news. That is good news.
I'm not a prisons guy, that's true. I'm not either,
but he is one of those like usually I think
that like even for like really bad people, like the

(03:21):
folks behind the financial crash and whatnot, there's other things
in prison that you could use to punish them or whatever.
A guy like Keith does need to be locked away,
Like he's too dangerous wherever he is, He's going to
do this, which is what his career has shown. Yeah,
this is the only like this, making cults is the
only thing he's capable. Yeah, that's his life. So yeah,
keep him away from people. Yeah. Um. Now, the six

(03:45):
week court case that led to his conviction has revealed
a treasure trove of new information about how Nexium, which
if he remembers the name of his cold spelled like
in expelled, so confused like an asshole spells it. Yeah,
like when I look at it, my brain and reads
v I x x x VIXIM Yeah. Yeah yeah, and
they to make it more confusing. I learned as I

(04:06):
was reading through like stuff about the court case, that
members of the cult called themselves Nixions, which is just
like the president, what like a Nick Richard Richard Nixon.
Yeah that if they'd called themselves the Nixons, Yeah, like
Nixon politics or something, Nixon politics. Which is just yelling
the inWORD while drinking heavily. Right, absolutely, and then like

(04:29):
throwing up peace signs. That's your fingers Nixon. Yeah, that's
going to be a fun episode of the podcast. Oh
you haven't done him yet. No, I mean I got
like it's one of those things like there's so many Well,
please have me for that episode because I'd love to
learn about talk about Tricky Dick Nix. Yeah, and I
mean all I know about him I learned on in

(04:50):
that movie with Kirsten Duns. Yeah. I think that's got
most of it. Dick Dick. Yeah, yeah, I think that's
got most of it. Yeah. Yeah, never seen it, but
I assume it's comprehensive. It's at lightful, female driven comedy,
just like Richard Nixon's life. Yeah, now, this is kind
of female driven, but it is not a comedy. Although
you can make a solid comedy. Oh my god. This

(05:12):
not to be callous, but this deserves a comedy movie
in the style of Vice. Oh yeah, that's that's who. Yeah. Yeah,
that that would be really solid with Allison mac playing Uh.
Probably the Seagrams vodka oh yeah, which one of the
things that came out during the court case is that

(05:33):
next thing was almost entirely funded by the bron fans.
The Seams vodka girls. Yeah, like they were. They really
poured a lot of money into that. Wow. That I
mean Seagram's vodka. Are they okay or their gin too?
They're not good the like in terms of the quality
of their liquor. In terms of the business model, though

(05:54):
they seem to be fine. Oh. The feeling I get
of the Bronfman family wealth is that they could have
given hundreds of bottom Keith and it wouldn't have mattered.
We're talking like l Ron Hubbard pockets here. Wow. I
will say, if you're an aspiring cult leader and you
listen to this podcast, which is smart, absolutely absolutely very smart,

(06:16):
this is probably one of the biggest tips you could
get is just don't try to con a bunch of people.
Con one dumb rich kid absolutely really rich kid. Yeah,
bottomless pit of inherited well yeah, like could throw away
passenger jets every month. Rich kids and they're out here.
Yeah there's a lot of them. Yeah, Yeah, there's a

(06:37):
lot of them. And until we starving masses eat them, uh,
con them out of their money because I won't. I
will not write about someone who just cons rich kids
out of their money. No, that's a robin Hood figure.
And if Keith Renier, he had just been conning the
Bronpins out of tens of millions of dollars with him.
And yeah, if that's all, none of the sex cults,

(07:00):
the sex cult stuff, which we're gonna we're animals and
talk about the sex cold stuff today. So uh. In
March two eighteen, Rahneering and his followers acted in the
best traditions of scammers throughout history and fled the United
States from Mexico. This was because numerous law enforcement agencies
had begun investigating Keith and Nexium for their numerous crimes. Now,
as everyone listening knows, moving as an extremely stressful process,

(07:22):
whether you're heading into a new apartment two blocks away,
were fleeing the country, it always sucks. And after getting
settled into Porto Biarta, Keith decided he and his followers
needed a recommitment ceremony, which you know, we've got to
settle back in a recommitment. Recommitment ceremony. Yeah, that's smart,
that's like I've noticed morale dropping. I just want to
make sure everyone's psyched. Yeah, yeah, and these are he
You know, he had gone from his his normal stable,

(07:43):
his harem I guess you might call. It was like
twenty two different women and he was down to like
seven when they moved to Porto Barty. You know, you
know it's the same thing. You're gonna you're gonna break
a couple of nicknacks when you move. When recently I
lost a beautiful in table that I lost. I'm so sorry.
And then you get more, but you get you get
more experience. But once you settle down, and that's what

(08:04):
Keith was trying to do, you know, as you lose
a dozen or so sex slaves, but then you recommit
to the ones you have. And when we say lose,
were they like in the press? No, I think talking
about it. Or I think they just weren't quite loyal
enough to move to Mexico just quietly slipped away. Yeah,
either that or it may have just been that, like

(08:25):
his funding got a little tighter, and uh, you can
only afford to move so many these women with him.
I don't know the exact reason. Um. One of the
women who went along with him is Laurence Salzman, who
was Keith's long term partner in nexing him and one
of his first line slaves in the women's group d S,
which of course translates in Latin like there's an acronym
in Latin for women under a submissive master. I think

(08:47):
it's like the rough translation. Uh so yeah, yeah yeah uh.
Salzman claimed on the stand when she testified against Keith
that the ceremony was meant to include group oral sex
to do something special for Keith. Quote, Honestly, I didn't
want to do a recommitment ceremony. I didn't want to
start d O S again. We had to believe that

(09:07):
we were under possible indictment. But I didn't feel like
it was my option to not go forward with their ceremony.
So Salzman claims that she's starting to get cold feet
at this point, and she's been she's been with him
for like years and years and years, right while they're
about to be arrested. And I wonder how much of
her contrition in like expressed disgust here is legitimate, because
I could totally see her being fucking tired of this guy.

(09:30):
You never know, you never know, she could just she's
gone along this far, And I mean, at this point,
you get the sense that everyone feels the shadow of
the law, and it's it's sort of hard to tell
how much of their continuing devotion to him is like
in for opinnion for a pound, and how much is

(09:51):
it of it is legitimately being taken in by the grift.
But well, we'll talk a little bit more about that along. So,
as the members of Keith's sex quote prepared to engage
age in their mass blowjob campaign, federal agents with rifles
posted up around the house. As Saltman and several slaves
had been taking a pre orgy nap with Keith, she
says she went into the kitchen to make a smoothie
when another first line slave ran in from the front

(10:11):
room and told her police are out the door and
they are looking for Keith Quote. Honestly, I went into
one mode to protect Keith. I closed all the doors,
all the blinds, and I looked out the window and
all I could see was federal agents with machine guns
surrounding the property. And Keith refused to leave. He wanted
to stay. Wow. Yeah, Okay, was she really making a smoothie? Yes,

(10:32):
she says she was, like they had like a pre
blowjob orgy, and then she was gonna make a smoothie.
I get it, you need nutrients. Yeah, and I feel
like you want to smoothe after you do that with
Keith r an Eery. Yeah yeah, I mean that part
doesn't add up from that part doesn't end up listening. Now,
Keith had insisted a salesman that he was the protector

(10:52):
of all the women in his coult but rather than
taking action to protect the women in the compound, van
Guard hid in the bathroom and desperately begged his slaves
not to tell the hops he was there. My main
concern was to protect Keith. It was almost automatic. I
chose love over everything, just like we were taught by Keith. Now,
Salzman claims it was Keith's arrest and the way he's
selfishly fled and abandoned his followers to hide in the

(11:13):
bathroom that was the thing that finally lifted the scales
from her eyes and made her realize she'd been conned.
During the trial. Yeah, maybe, Yeah, I mean, this is
truly a movie waiting to happen. Yeah, that is your
climax right there. McConaughey would be a great Keith rearing
my god, wouldn't he? Oh? Yeah, No, he he would
nail that, Yes he would. He did. Such a good

(11:34):
grifter McConaughey would also be a good guru of a
sex cult. Oh yeah, yeah yeah. Oh, I hope he's not.
I hope he's not not. I like to think better
of Matthew McConaughey. Then, only since the reconnaissance have I
wanted to think better of Matthew McConaughey. When did the
macconnaissance start? When he was on a true detected Absolutely? Look,
I didn't see beach Bum that harmony crime movie, but

(11:56):
he looked like he was good in it. I'm sure
he's a good actor. Pretty pretty decent mediocre bourbon salesman too. Yeah, yeah,
he's a He's a solid salesman of indifferent bourbon. It's true.
Doesn't he do the cars? Look, I'm getting so off topic.
We're getting very off topic. I feel bad because this
original episode was like five hours. It was a lot

(12:20):
of stuff we have we have less here we have?
Is is real fucked up? I'm staying on topic. So uh.
Salzman claims, yeah, that it was Keith's arrest, and you
know the way he reacted that finally let her realize
what was going on. During the trial, we heard from many,
many other women and other than Soltman about their own
journeys with Rhineering. Prosecutors claim that he called himself the smartest,
most ethical person in the world. That's a direct quote, uh,

(12:41):
and compared himself to both Albert Einstein and Mahatma Gandhi.
They made the wise decision not to let him take
the stand himself, so he never testified, which I think
is a good call. Don't let the cold leader test.
I wonder, though, do you think he could have like
hypnotized the jury. I don't know. I wonder a guy's
power like that is broken if he's not one on

(13:03):
one Because Keith was never the kind of Google like
you look at his videos on YouTube. They never had
a huge, huge like. He wasn't the kind of person
like billions of people wanted to watch. I think he
strikes me as the kind of person who had an
intense one on one charisma, and that's how he kind
of worked everything, which is why his cult was pretty small. Right. Yeah,
he didn't like start a giant, mega church movement. He
wasn't a Hubbard type like he clearly wanted to be.

(13:25):
But like Hubbard had that ability to ze on a scale,
didn't even Ted Bundy, even Ted Bundy because he could
do it from the stand. Yeah, yeah, exactly, And I
don't think Gnery could do that. Um, but I still
think it's probably a good idea, just even if all
you're saying is like fucker's talked enough, yeah, which he has,

(13:47):
he has, Yeah yeah. Among other things, the victims of
Keith Renier, he talked about Nexium's most beloved tradition, Vanguard Week.
Every August, members of the group, who called themselves Nixion's,
would been roughly two thousand dollars to attend birthday celebrations
for Keith in Silver Bay, New York. The center of
the event where tribute ceremonies to Van Guard. A witness

(14:08):
explained in court, there was always sort of entertainment or
different kind of tribute ceremonies to keep from the different
centers where there would be like performances of singers. But
it was all kind of centered around the idea of
a tribute to Keith and celebrating Keith's work, sort of
like a summer camp for adults. That sounds doesn't sound
like summer camp. Fun if you're key. Yeah, summer camp
for me was like learning how to start fires and kayak. Yeah,

(14:31):
where's the nature element? Yea? Why we were just celebrating
a guy, maybe, like because you have different tribes at camp.
We had like four tribes and they were the different centers,
they were the different tribes. Yeah. Yeah, and like even
that doesn't sound because that sounds like uh like like
like fun cookie cultural appropriation as opposed to like, yeah,

(14:53):
just tributing one guy. What do they mean by performances?
So it would be like someone would come and do
like a song. Yeah, I'm going to guess the songs
about Keith and his wisdom and importance because now that
you said there was like this oral sex thing going
on in my mind, I'm like, oh, all the songs
would just end with Keith getting a blowjob. Yeah, I think,
like I think maybe it's like a whole week of

(15:15):
of Watsky is going down, but all themed around uh
Keith Ranieri. Yeah, creepy. Imagine getting I assume it was
an email, an email invite to that birthday party. Oh,
probably get excited. It's Keith's birthday. You get to spend
two thousand dollars and then come up and do a

(15:38):
song about him and put on little skits about his wisdom. Skits.
I bet there were skins. Yeah, the skit part does
sound like camp now now I'm thinking about it's like
camp theater. Yeah, I mean I kind of want to
do a van guard Week where we all make songs
about Keith Reniery, just without him there, without people paying
two thousand bucks. Yes, picked up to hell. All of

(16:00):
your listeners are going to want that to happen. Now
if we ever do, see, this is just going to
lead to me creating a cult. Yeah, this is just
going to lead to me. You know, I got to
be aware of that slippery It's a fine, fine line.
It's a fine line, and I am this close to
starting a cult at any given moment. I can tell
right there, give off that thank you, thank you. I

(16:21):
shoot for that. I can. I can feel you holding
yourself back. It's like, um, I don't know what it's like.
I don't have a good similar, but I am trying. Yeah, well,
good for you. I'll fail one day. I'll fail one
day and they and then you'll run for president. No,
they'll catch me in the Adirondacks with like seventy or
eighty people wearing like white sheets and like a cash
of weapons. Oh my god, that's so going to have.

(16:42):
You'll have his long beard. You'll have been like hunting
deer for sustenance. You have been there for seven weeks. Yeah.
My goal is the branch Davidian compound with better drugs
and no kids and no kids. Hey man, yeah I
got kids could happen. No, okay, no, because some up
one of the drugs there will be are you for six? Yeah? Yeah,

(17:04):
well you know I actually shouldn't joke about that, because
that's where this goes. No, yeah, I shouldn't joke about
that at all. You know, this does this is the
part where we can joke I think before it gets yeah,
before we get to the actual culte leader forcing women
to have abortion. Yeah, we shouldn't joke about that at all.
I apologize deeply. Um, if I have a cult, I

(17:25):
won't do that. Well, good, it'll be it'll be a
cult where women can choose to fend off the FBI
in our mountain compound. Okay, yeah, okay, but also men
yeah oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, no, I mean I'll funk
whatever kind of cult members. You know, you know once,
once it takes you over, the spirit gets in you. Yeah,

(17:46):
until the FD or a t F burns us down.
I mean it sounds like a commune. Commune could it's
fine line, you just have to keep your profile. Well no,
I really I'm not sure if it's the a t
F I want to provoke, or maybe maybe the FDA,
because no cults ever been murdered by the FDA yet,
and I do they have that capacity. I feel like

(18:06):
they got some grenade launchers locked away. I think the
FDA is like four people who work for big corporations
for just meet twice a month and move around some papers. Yeah,
that's the uncharitable view. The charitable view is that it's
two very tired people trying to explain to everyone that
like turmeric isn't medicine. Yeah, you know what, that's true.

(18:27):
They also serve an important function. Oh boy, um okay.
So FBI special agent Michael Lever claimed in court that
at its height, the organization allowed Keith to maintain a
staple of fifteen to twenty sex slaves in any given time.
These women were forbidden from even touching another man, in
line with nextium teachings that men were fundamentally polyamorous while
women were monogamous. Again, this is just bigging me. The

(18:49):
most disturbing story in the whole next Seame saga is
the tale of dan Yellow. When she was sixteen, her
family moved to the US from Mexico after hearing about
Vanguard in his wonderful organization. The six of them moved
into a two bedroom condo in Albany and began taking
self help classes. We don't get many details on Danielle
in the court documents, but I'm going to guess her
family is or was rather affluent. Now. When she moved

(19:09):
to the US, Danielle had never been kissed or had
any kind of sexual experience. She was introduced to Keith
during his Vanguard Week celebrations, and Keith clearly fell in
love with this again literal child quote. I didn't see
Keith that way, but I could see in subtle ways
that he was flirting with me. Now I believe he
was grooming me. Oh that we're grooming. Grooming is sixteen,
which you know, if you remember from the other episodes,

(19:31):
Keith did a couple of times. Yeah, one of them
committed suicide later. Yeah, Danielle claimed on the stand that
their relationship quickly escalated in a sexual way, but did
not immediately escalate two sex itself. That would have been
to pedestrian and normal crime for a guy like Granary.
Keith told her that they would consummate their love when
she turned eighteen and it was nice and legal. In

(19:51):
the meantime, he told her she was too fat and
needed to lose weight so they'd be able to bonne
when she was old enough. This is such a tool
of sociopathic manipulative dudes controlling weight. Yeah. I wonder how
much of it was even like what he was actually
turned on by, and how much of it was just
the need for control over them, which is it's an
easy leverage I think. Yeah, there was a screenwriter who

(20:17):
was not that recently outed, but like reality Yeah yeah,
I mean we have landis landis But yeah, that was
a thing he did. Yeah, he would tell his girlfriends
and girls he was dating that they were too fat
and they needed to get thin and they were antarectic.
Yeah yeah, I shouldn't say that. Maybe they were, but
I feel like they talked about that like they already

(20:37):
had issues with you. I think he was saying, yeah,
it's it's it's common. It's a thing for like controlling
men to like because it's easy because like there's all
these societal reinforcers to for like, any woman in the
world can be convinced she's fat just because of like
the way that Yeah exactly, yeah, Rainieri or Danielle said
on the stand quote he said he could not share

(20:59):
his sexual energy you with someone overweight. Yeah, Keith, Okay,
yeah sure. Yeah. So we're gonna talk more about what
Danielle said on stage, and we will get to the
horrifying revelations that make it so very inappropriate for me
to have joked about our u for six morning after

(21:19):
pills um. But first, this is maybe my worst leading
to ads ever. You know, it's better than gas lighting
women into believing they're fat and molesting children. Anything, yes, anything,
but also products and services. Yeah, please buy these things.

(21:47):
We're back. We're back, and we're talking about Danielle, one
of Keith Renier's victims, probably his like most hurt victim,
like of the people in the least that we're talking
about today, the one who got sucked over the worst
by rhineing um So once she turned eighteen and was
presumably thin enough for Keith's sexual energy. Vanguard called Danielle

(22:08):
to tell her that it was time, and in the
tradition of all great romances, he took her to an
office building storage room to fuck. No what that's what
women want? No, he's doing right there. He is so
rich at this point, isn't he. I well know, he
lives at quiet church mounts like existence if you remember.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's true. So okay, storage room, that

(22:31):
storage storage room. Well that's what I I consider myself
a romantic And if I know one thing about women,
it's that all of you desire the sheer, erotic intimacy
of an office building storage room. Oh yeah, I mean
you read erotic novels and they are front to back
just storage room boxes, a hammer mill paper, you know,

(22:54):
reams or like like like palettes of of of blue pens. Yeah,
there's a whole series about those storage units where you
you pick up the what are those called, you know,
the oh yeah, the doors, like the metal, the metal,
the metal doors that slide up and there's like a
thrill you could get stuck in the set. The smell
of printer ink cartridges. That's why the most popular men's

(23:17):
Clode brands or printer ink cartridge. Oh yeah to smell. Yeah, no,
I'll rub but like one of those from a dot
matrix on me before going out for a date. And
really haven't had sex in years, but that's just now. Uh.
So they had their storage room liaison and after this,

(23:38):
Daniello was expected to constantly give Vanguard blow jobs several
times per day. She alleges that she and her sister
were forced to have group sex with Keith several times, uh,
saying we cried the whole time in court. Yeah. Now,
Danielle and two of her other sisters were impregnated by
Keith Ranieri and he forced all three of them to
have abortions, which he paid for. Danielle claims that after

(23:59):
her abortion, Keith tried to raise her spirit by telling
her that the operation was a good opportunity to lose
more weight. Abortion will make you ben, he told her,
quote Olympic athletes get abortions as part of training. What
that's so crazy? I mean, I can't I guess at

(24:20):
this point she's been groomed. She's like being deeply manipulated.
She is brainwashed. Where were her parents? Her parents are
in the cult? Yeah, they moved from Mexico to the
US to be a part of this thing. So yeah,
they've they've clearly fallen for it. And like you know,
by the time they meet, Keith's a guy in his fifties,

(24:41):
she's sixteen, so like he's got two of her lifetimes
of experience just manipulating people, and she's a fucking teenager.
Yeah she's a kid. Yeah, um, yeah, So Keith clearly
took pains to make sure his sexual liaisons with Danielle
and her sisters didn't start until they were of legal age,
but she did allege and authorities found child pornography taken

(25:03):
up the girls before they were of legal age. I'm
sure this whole idea that he waited exactly until they
were eighteen, I don't buy it. Yeah, yeah, he definitely,
at the very least he had a legal porn of
these girls before he started sleeping with him. It may
have been one of those things where he convinced himself
that if he waited to actually fuck until they were eighteen,
that he'd be safe. But like, I don't be honest,

(25:24):
I wouldn't be surprised he was probably sending dirty text messages.
He was definitely doing a lot of that. Yeah, yeah,
it was. I mean he was having her lose weight
to be ready to fuck him for two years while
she was a child, which I don't know if that's
exactly a crime, but it ought to be not to be. Yeah,

(25:44):
that to the books. Yeah, um so essentially. Daniella at
one point, after like starting her relationship with Keith Reniery,
expressed an interest in a man who was not Keith Reniery.
She apparently kissed a male Nexium member and that made
him furious. He told her that she wasn't pure anymore.
Then he threw her across the room and left her

(26:06):
lying on the floor. She said, the world closed in
on me. Every degree of freedom I had was lost.
Danielle was imprisoned in a bedroom for two years, locked
outside of where her family was living, but didn't see
her family for two years, even though they were living
in the same house. Was locked in a bedroom. This
is yeah, and now I see what you mean. Yeah,
that's next level. Yeah, Keith Bill Danielle's imprisonment as a

(26:30):
solution to her problem behavior. Salzman testified to this quote.
Keith told me that she was stealing and that she
had said she was going to lose weight and instead
gained forty pounds. Danielle would spend days at a time
in the room, sitting against the wall, trying not to scream.
She would count days and pour through her memories just
to try and stay sane. Salzman claims she had helped
Vanguard punished Daniello because she was convinced it would help

(26:52):
her prove to him that she could be a good mother.
We were incredibly abusive to daniellew Everything she did. We
shot down. Nothing she could do was the right thing.
Of all the things I did in this case and
all the crimes that I admitted to, this was the
worst thing I did. I think she's accurate about Yeah,
so what's with this candor? Like she she pled? She
pled guilty. Yeah, she played guilty. I think to racketeering

(27:12):
is what they got her on. Um. So you know
you would think she would be like, I did what
I had to do, But she's being so frank. She
is being frank, And you know, it is entirely possible
people do come to realizations that they did sucked up
things and feel legitimately bad about them. And maybe that
happened in Salzman's case. Kind of sounds. I get the
feeling with that with her more than I do with

(27:33):
Alison Mack. We'll talk about more like absolutely. But at
the same time, it is important to remember Salzman was
an integral part of Nexium's leadership for a long time.
Because she might feel some contrition doesn't mean it wasn't
sucked up. Yeah, it was very fucked up. Does seem
very possible she feels some real contrition. I don't know
the person. While Danielle seems to have gotten the very
worst of Vanguard, every member of the d Os women's group,

(27:56):
the so called slaves, were victims of hernerie as well
as in many cases perfect traders in their own right.
Members were expected to provide their mentors higher level slaves
with collateral, ranging from naked pictures of themselves too, in
at least one case, a false confession of prostitution addressed
to the slaves mother, that's a nice Yeah. They needed
collateral um so that if these people like left the

(28:18):
group or spoke about it to the press, you know,
it would be released. That was control. In a lot
of cas it was naked photos. At least one woman
said Keith had her right out of confession to like
working as a prostitute. That would be like sent to
her mom if she god, I think, I mean, you
would never think that in the moment. But like stepping back,
those things seem not that powerful of blackmail because it's like,

(28:43):
once you escaped, you would be like that was blackmail.
I had to get out of a cult. Also, naked
pictures is less of a This is one of the
things that I think might get better about society after
we get used to deep fakes. Like it's going to
be a rough couple of years at the start, but
eventually it's like, who cares if you've got her naked pictures?
Like anyone you can have anyone's naked pictures at any point.

(29:03):
It takes seven seconds. Yeah, and not just pictures videos,
not just pictures videos. And maybe we all just stop.
Maybe everyone just starts, stops wearing clothing. Maybe we're just
hanging out our genitals for the rest of time. I
feel like you're you're kind of proposing that I am.
What I'm proposing is that the next set of presidential debates,
everybody's naked. Oh my god, that would lay everybody's naked

(29:25):
playing fields so much. It would it would. Donald Trump
would not have made it far absolutely not not. I
mean even I don't know how would have done a
lot better. I believe that you got to see the
guy's abs like a fucking cheese grater. Hey, I believe it.
The poor guy, he probably works out, spreads it at

(29:45):
the gym, mad game. He's got a lot of regret
that he's working at it. He's got a he's just
listening to to Fort Minor and doing crunches for hours.
I will say, the idea of all these people naked
is making me slightly nauseous. It should, it should um,
but it would be for the greater good of democracy,

(30:07):
so we have to do it. And also cops should
always be naked. How would be crazy? I think how
different that world would be. I don't know. I feel
like it would lead to maybe more sexual assault. It might.
I feel like it would lead to less shootings though,
because less cops are going to pull people over because
exactly so. Yeah, I feel like you might get a

(30:31):
net good out of that, but you know it more
more sexual assault. You don't have to bring it. Yeah,
maybe you shouldn't analyze this theory of mind. These are
supposed to be the moments of levity. Yeah, these are
the moments of levity. So this drop box folder of
a collateral was kept organized by small bill actress Alison
mac Um. The slaves who sexually serviced Mr Reyniery, we're

(30:52):
all put on extreme weight loss plans in order to
make themselves into Vanguard's idea of a perfect woman. They
started on one thousand calorie diets that were gradually restricted
down to just five dred calories predict nothing that's not
enough to survive. Victims would be ordered to send photos
of their meals to mentors and ask permission before being
allowed to eat. But of course, Keith himself was not

(31:13):
required to abide by his own rules for his slaves.
According to the BBC, well, he demanded the women around
him remain excruciatingly thin. The Vanguard reportedly ate pizza around
the clock and cakes galore, picking out on potato chips
and hot sauce flown in from his devotees around the world.
Why wouldn't he be able to eat stuff? Yeah, flown in?
Oh my god, at least you some fucking crunches. If

(31:35):
you're gonna sorry, I don't want to say that. He
should be more like Jeb Bush, but maybe he should,
he should, you know what, Jeb Bush all things considered.
Nice guy married to a Latina speak Spanish. Then again,
a lot of people speak Spanish these days. A lot
of people speak Spanish these days. That's the big thing
in presidency. Yeah, yeah, maybe fucking awesome if Elizabeth Warren

(31:57):
just dropped like a ten minute speech in doth racky
at the debate, just like just like with it, and
then like Corey Burker starts arguing and cling on and
it's just like what the fund is happening? Yeah, Like
she gives her that sassy look that he gave to
Beato and then he starts speaking. Yeah. Yeah. Now. In
our prior episodes, we talked about the branding routines also

(32:18):
required for d OS members. They were pressured in large
group settings to spend half an hour naked being filmed
while a cauterizing pin was used to scar a stylized
brand of Keith renas initials into their pelvis is. The
court testimony revealed that victims were told the brand stood
for the four elements air, earth, and water, and the
pin represented fire. A recording was played in court of
discussing how to arrange the branding procedure with one of

(32:39):
his high level followers. According to CNN, he asked, at
one point, do you think the person who's being branded
should be completely nude or sort of held at the
table like a sort of almost like a sacrifice. That's cool.
He had lost his mind. He had lost his goddamn mind. Yeah.
I think he started out as a normal grow j
but then became an insane person. It always like, you

(33:01):
can't live that way and not lose your fucking skull. Right,
people worshiping you is a cancer. M I think that's
true as his power in general, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Salsman
testified that branding victims were required to submit photos of
themselves after the procedure, which Alison Mack dutifully added to
their drop box files. The photo had to be fully

(33:22):
frontal naked, Our brands had to show, and we had
to look happy in uniform when victim reported. According to
the Daily Beast quote, if any slave displeased Ranieri, he
would kick or whip them before threatening to release their
collateral photos saved under a dropbox named brands. And also
testified on Monday that rane he had plans to jail
women in a dungeon as a form of punishment. He
said the jail cell was for people most committed to growth.

(33:44):
They would get locked in a cage. She said on Monday,
I was a slave with Keith as my master, Salesman said,
adding that she was forced to keep the role of Ranieri,
who they had to call grand Master, a secret and
the society demanded a lifetime of obedience to your master.
This is the worst case in area of fifty shades
of gray. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like, I think it's

(34:06):
hard to say. Maybe he got off on the idea
of torturing these women because the dungeon things like, oh,
you're this is you're envisioning like a medieval dungeon and
that is delighting you for most committed to growth. Yeah,
that's crazy and fucking nuts. Wow. The group would meet

(34:27):
three times a week in a sorority house, and whenever
any reattended, the women had to strip naked, get on
the floor and look up to him while he delivered
lectures on matters ranging from his vision for d Os
to write a book to recruitment to his intent to
create a dungeon where slaves would totally surrender themselves. Cool stuff.
Sounds like fun meetings. I can't imagine it going that far.

(34:47):
I mean, that's how these things work. I just can't
imagine being in the room when all of a sudden,
it's like we're all branded. Someone just got whipped and
he's talking about the dungeon he's about to build. It's
all these little steps that lead up to it, you know,
Like that's the thing, Like that's how it happened. That's
how you get sucked up in a call. I think
I'm probably involved in like four different almost cults. If

(35:10):
I look around closely. You do whip a lot of people,
and I needed to talk to you about you whip
a lot of people. Do I carry one around with me? Yeah? Yeah,
like Hitler, Oh you're right, yeah yeah. Oh no, I've
got to get rid of that. Yeah you get you
really getta You gotta get just one day a week
take the whip out. Yeah, I gotta give it to Goodwill.

(35:32):
Good Will in l A has a really vibrant whip section,
you know they do. Yeah that next to like their
five thousand different forks. Yeah, the Santa Monica good Will
kitchen stuff and whips. Yeah. Another Renewy victim who took
the stand is known in court documents as J. She
took her first next class on August two, sixteen, and
it was a five day intensive in Albany. J found

(35:54):
this course helpful, so she got more involved with the cult.
Before long, she wound up in DS, forced to hand
over collateral pictures along with sexy pictures of herself on
the first every month, which she described as being like
rent for membership in the cult. Mark Agnifilio were near
his attorney insisted that all of this, the mind games
and punishments and collateral photos were part of Keith's self
improvement program. He claimed people signed up for it willingly.

(36:16):
They were not there to go shopping. There there to
make their lives better. Mm hmm, yeah, yeah. I guess
if you want to convince people to do all these awful,
awful things and have awful things done to them, you
say it's for self growth. I'm hey, classic grift. I'm

(36:36):
doing the artist's way right now. It's all about creative
growth and self reflection and growth. And you're bringing up
some of these buzzwords, and I am uncomfortable about how
much their reson would be there's certain phrases that are
like shortcuts to uh tricking people into taking extreme act

(37:00):
action UM. And it's why I worry about the use
of certain very specific words UM and growth is one
of them. Yeah, I've been using that word so much
since I started reading The Artist Way. Yeah, it's it's
just today I've said it's sixteen times trying to pitch
someone on the book. Yeah. It just always like it

(37:22):
doesn't mean don't listen to anything that like has that
that phrase in and it like talks about it, but
like be really careful when people stopped talking about attached
to a lot of things because like that's you wonder
like how all these women got into a point where
they're letting someone brand them as like sacrifice victims. It
was because like it was all framed as growth and
like it didn't start there, but it started like this
period of like, okay, growth means pain. Like if you're
gonna you want to grow into a more fit, healthy

(37:44):
person that you got the gym and that hurts, and
dieting hurts, and you want to build a career, you know,
as a in Hollywood or whatever, and you have to
make a lot of sacrifices and those hurt and like right,
but you know that that's how all of these people get.
So just like it. Everyone talking about growth. Every self
help plan isn't a cult. But be really careful when

(38:05):
you start waiting into those waters, because they're sharks in there. Yeah. Cool,
you know where there's not sharks. Um products and service,
products and services not sharks. Uh. Dick pills are what
you're one of our sponsors now, pills, wonderful stuff. Uh.

(38:25):
And and again this is a free ad for them,
you know, I don't know. It could be a Microsoft Dad,
could be Coca. We're just I'm just very enthusiastic about
Dick pills. They don't promise you. They do promise growth,
but in a way that is very predictable, scientific, scientific growth, verifiable. Yeah,
Dick pills, that's great products. Not a scam, not a scam. Yeah,

(38:51):
we're back. We're talking about things that are in fact scams.
So we were talking about j who took the stage
to talk about her time in Keith Renar. He's cold.
I'm gonna quote from Forbes here. Her perspective changed after
her master invited her into a shared dropbox account where
all the slaves and her groups submitted nude photos of
themselves another compromising information each month. It got scary, j said,

(39:13):
explaining how she would eventually realize that the photos could
be used to blackmail her. Jay testified that she first
considered Alison Mack a carrying and good person who would
help her with her acting career, but soon half found
her to be emotionally abusive, vindictive, and manipulative. Now maxiems
to have been one of the key members of this
group and was like the one of the top level slaves,
So she was a slave to her neary, but she
was a master to all of these women, was responsible

(39:35):
for keeping them in line. So again, you know, Keith
is abusing all of these women, but he's also using
them to abuse each other and sort of like this
tiered system because he just doesn't have all the time
to do that of course not. Yeah, yeah, it's the
herbal life of therrible life of sex, colds, down lines,
and ship. Jay was eventually ordered to move from Los

(39:56):
Angeles to a house near Albany with her nearing and
his inner circle. On the surface, it was so that
Keith could help her launch a T shirt brand. How delightful.
How delightful. But once she arrived, she found herself trapped
in a weird sex cult of women who were all
clearly being ordered to starve themselves. Jay noticed that many
of them were losing their hair, so she joined them,
sending in her weight to Raney each morning and restricting
herself to the same five calorie diet. Yeah. Jay testified

(40:19):
that volleyball was Keith's very favorite sport, and in true
narcissistic fashion, he required everyone to watch him play. D
OS members would dress in their best clothes and put
on makeup to watch Keith play fucking volleyball against two
against I you know, I don't know, I guess whoever
there were. There were men in the group too, so
it was probably some of them. During breaks in the play,
the women of d OS would line up so Raneer
he could kiss them each on the lips and takes

(40:41):
walks with them one on one to talk about their progress.
Oh my god, Yeah, this so weird. Wow so again.
Allison Mack was the person managing j and eventually told
her that she had been tasked with seducing Keith Raneering.
She insisted this was an honor and a privilege. She
was asked to seduce Keith until he took a naked
photo of her and sent it to Alison Mack as proof.

(41:03):
This seems to be what finally shook j out of
her involvement in the cult. Everything was crumbling. It was
my worst nightmare come to life. That I would be
a cult and someone would want to sleep with me,
and that's what it was. Yeah, that somebody would want
to sleep with me was sort of the fundamental part.
When we were starving ourselves. I didn't know that was
a cult, but yeah, there's a fucking I guess everybody
has that in a cult, that like moment of like,

(41:25):
oh this is right, you're right, and you know everybody
gets sucked into things. I guess I can see if
everyone around you is doing this stupid five hundred calorie
literally wasting away diet, the pressure, because I even feel it.
I mean I feel it when I hang out with
like skinny friends and stuff and they're like, I'm just

(41:46):
going to get a salad. I don't need dinner. I'm like,
I feel like such a cow ordering my fried whatever
fried pickles. Yeah, I feel that way anytime I go
to a gym in Los Angeles. Like everybody looks like
they were poured into a work place to go to jam.
It's heartbreaking, literal fitness models go to the gym, going

(42:07):
to Oregon for Jim's great going to a gym in
Los Angeles where it's like nothing but fitness models and stuff.
I'm on a treadmill and both sides of me are beautiful,
gorgeous tall models. Yeah, that doesn't make me want to
keep calling. Yeah, where there's there's guys just like casually
bench pressing three hundred pounds and like look like they

(42:28):
walked out of an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Like look like
somebody who fights John Wick? Really? Yeah, and then and
they probably do and they probably probably some of them
literally fight John Wick. Yeah. Oh so um. Jay managed
to escape the colt without ever actually completing her assignment

(42:49):
to seduce Keith Reneering. On the stand, Renes defense attorney
clarified that Jay was only asked to seduce Keith, not
sleep with him, because that makes it better. Okay, okay,
it's good defense to prosecution. You know what, I don't
believe it. You don't believe that. I don't buy I
think it was I mean, maybe he was like really
into edging. Yeah, maybe he was really into edging. I'll

(43:12):
give it some water then, like sure, can you say
that phrase like that holds water. I'll give it some water,
give it a little little water. I'll see if it'll
hold it. Okay. Now there are many other horrific details.
One one year old woman who took the stand claim
that Rainy blindfolded her, tied her up, and made her
lie in a cold table while another slave went down
on her against her will. Uh. This woman claimed that

(43:34):
she did not fight, obeying Allison Max's order to be
a good slave. This is the part where it's like
lots of rape happened. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of
that happened. Yeah, that's sad. Salzman and mac both eventually
pled guilty to charges of racketeering conspiracy. Both seemed to
have turned against their guru. During her testimony, Salesman went
into brutal detail about the things she and Neary forced

(43:54):
people to do. She told stories of women forced to
stand barefoot in the snow or locked in a cage.
She admitting to forcing valium on a slave who had
what she described as a psychotic break, which I'm going
to guess was actually just omen reacting totally reasonably to
the fund up things. Keith Renieri was someone being like, finally,
you know, you did not medicate someone having a mental

(44:15):
health issue. You drugged someone who realized they were put
in a horrible position. Yeah, or I mean, look, if
I'm to believe her, fine, then you drove someone to
a mental to a mental break, which is also possible. Yeah.
After hearing all this, the Brooklyn jury test with deciding
Vanguard's fate, did not need a lot of time to
make their decision. After four and a half hours, they

(44:36):
returned a four page verdict finding Nary guilty of all
seven charges. According to The New York Times, celebration ensued.
Prosecutors on the case hugged and kissed cheeks former Nexium
What a weird detail. Former Nexium followers, who had later
turned on their leader, pushed into the hallway to continue
the jubilee. Mark Agnefilio, one of Mr Rainierries defense lawyers,
later told news media that when Mr Renery learned of

(44:57):
the quick turnaround, he remarked, that's not justice. Well, okay, yeah,
that's that feels This feels a little bit like justice.
To make Yeah, of course they were going to walk
away from that, and I think he was guilty. Yeah,
the details are so damn it and a horrible and
specific Yeah, like you can't make that ship up. No, no,

(45:20):
And there's like phone conversations and text messages and like that.
It's a drop box. There's a drop box full of
evidence of people, like full of blackmail crime. Very they're
using dropbox for blackmail and social medias cuts both ways.
It can help you maintain your cult. But I just
want to understand why you would use dropbox when you

(45:43):
can just use Google your Google drive head you know,
I do have a drop BOXX. I'm gonna I'm gonna advise.
I'm not getting funded by drop box, but I'm gonna
advise my listeners. If you start a sex cult and
you need a place to keep your blackmail, drop Box
really well. It has that stop feature where you can
use your desktop to move a file. So if you

(46:04):
have a big nude photograph that takes up a lot
of space, you want that feature. You do want that feature.
I convinced myself into using conn for your sex call
for my sex call. Yeah, so mine won't be a
bad one. It won't be like it be god non consensual. Yeah,
mine will be a good sex colt until the FDA
starts firing grenades And yeah, man, what do you have

(46:24):
to do to that? I really want to piss the FDA.
You have to go around selling bootleg medicine? Are you comfortable?
I feel like a lot of people do that and
the FDA doesn't do anything. That's true. It's gonna be
hard to push them that far, but I'm gonna try.
I think I think you could. I think I could. Yeah,
I just I want to see what it looks like

(46:45):
when they militarize. That's the goal. That's the goal, is
to get the FDA shoot pills at you or like
certified meat products. Yeah, through something like that. I feel
like if I really play my cards right, I could
get the FDA to assault a t F headquarters and
then like right, and I have one Okay, Well, you know,

(47:07):
so you told me earlier you wanted to run for president.
At some point, it sounds like, after all this unfold
is the time to run for president. Yeah, after I've
I've gotten the FDA to take down the A t F. Yeah,
I think so, because there's like a vacuum at that
point so much in fighting, you just swoop right in.
You'll have been in the Adirondacks for seven weeks, so
you'll be strong, you'll be full of natural foods. Well. Yeah,

(47:32):
And I feel like like if I if I attack
the f DAY enough, then I make them come after me.
Like there's a way to do that as like negging,
where eventually they just like crave my approval And they're
sounding a lot like Keith right now. It's not ineffective.
You just have to get it to a positive goal,
like turning the FDA into a second branch of the
mill to the right people. I need to improve my

(47:54):
ability to nag the right people. We all do, and
that's how I'm going to start my cult. It is
just teaching other people how to nag. It sounds like
you're describing the game that ship. I keep doing that.
You're gonna be what's his name mystery, Yeah, and teach
young virgin men how to nag women into bed. But

(48:17):
in my case it's going to be how to nag
the FDA into arming. In charming, it's the same thing.
These are small semantic details. Well, that's the story of
Keith Nary. He's going to appeal, but I think there's
probably chance motherfucker dies in a cell. He definitely will,
which is great. What an interesting thing to have. I

(48:41):
guess some semblance of a happy ending to one of
your stories. It does seem like that. It seems like
he got a thorough amount of Obviously he was allowed
to continue for too long, and he really fucked up
a lot of people's lives. But like as much justice
as could be gotten after this point seems to have
been gotten. Like he's never going to get out of prison.
His crimes have been exhaustively detailed, his victims have gotten

(49:05):
their day in court looking at him in the face
and seeing him sentenced. That's is about as good as
it gets in one of these cases. Yeah, is there
any I mean, I wonder is there any this seems
too good to be true? Is there any aftermath, any
followers of nexium that are going out and spreading his
good word? Well, the one kind of downside is that

(49:28):
Q and on has really embraced this because they have
convinced themselves there's big ties between Keith Reniery and Hillary Clinton,
which there aren't. They just aren't. Yeah, that would be insane. Yeah,
how would those connections. Yeah, and there's a bunch of
people like, like a bunch of talk and Q and
on boards about like the mainstream media is ignoring the

(49:49):
Reneerie verdict. It's like, no, dude, it's like the New
York Times published a bunch of front page at The
Daily Beast has covered it exhaustively, like people cared to it.
People cared to agree we're doing a third episode on him, Like, no,
no one's covering this up. It just has nothing to
do with global politics. So they think it's connected. But
to the whole, all democrats are pedophiles thing they were, right, Yeah,

(50:10):
here's one more reason that Democrats are pedophiles. Wow, that's
picking and choosing, picking and choosing cult leaders. You want
to use his zamm Oh, this is fucked up enough
without like pretending it's other things. You spend a lot
of time on those much time on those messages? Is
it chilling? Yeah, it's unsettling because I read your tweets

(50:31):
where you talk about like just so you guys, you
know what's going on in eight chan and I definitely
don't because eight chan four chan is here right after
Reddit and then a chan is even insane? Or do
you have to prove yourself to get on eight chan.
Anyone can view it like it's one of those things.
If you start posting there and you haven't lurked for
a long time, they'll they'll pick you out and they'll

(50:53):
be like get out of here. They'll make fun of
you and tell you to lark more. Like it's it's
one of those things were like, it's essentially the same
thing as like a foreign line, which like if you're
if you walk like like if you're beat a pedal
Rourke and you start talking in Spanish and a debate,
people will know like, Okay, this isn't a guy who
grew up speaking Spanish exactly. Um, it's like that like
like with with these lingos. But the eight chan chunks
that talk about Q and on are a lot different

(51:15):
because their goal is to get a lot of like
older people in boomers and stuff to keep posting and
like draw them in further and further. So they actually
have a lot of conversations about like how to welcome
older people who are getting like sucked into Q and
on and stuff. So like, yeah, it's weird You've got
like these chunks of eight Chan that are like literal
neo Nazis who are so online that it's broken their brains.
And then you've got like Grandma's like pouring over Q

(51:38):
drops and stuff. It's really everything is so weird getting
pulled in more than one. And those people believe that
Keith Ranieri is a front of the Democratic Party. Are
you just a lurker? Yeah, I just lark. I don't post,
right because what would you post? Why would I even? Yeah,
there's nothing to gain from it, right, Yeah. And do
you think I know this is a little long shpic,

(52:00):
but do you think that this is a growing problem.
It's like, I mean, they've killed getting more and more
people have been killed this year, and that gets fostered
on the boards. Yeah, I mean the christ Church shooting,
in the Popway shooting in the in the poll boards
and you know Q and on. There's been uh two
shootings and two murders in the last year. So yeah,

(52:22):
so I guess fifty four dead you can try tie
to that. I feel like you're like a soldier in
the message board army. It's a really dumb war if
that's the case, going out and really stupid war boy.
But real, no, I won't no, just really dumb and frustrating. Yeah,

(52:42):
I don't. I don't know how you have the patients
for it. I can't even like go to bright party
remain sane. No. Um, you know we all pick our
own private heals. Keith r Near He's picked his private hell.
I've picked mine, and it's it's browsing e Chan until
the FDA finally comes for me. And you've picked improv,

(53:04):
you know, And what a private hell of? What a
private hell of? It's a very public you throw yourself
in front of you. My suffering is both private and public. Unfortunately. Well, Anna,
this is the end of our episode. Do you have
any plug doubles to plug at the end of this? Uh?
This little journey we taken? Um? Yeah. Check me out

(53:26):
on Instagram my comic bad Comics with an X by
Anna with two ends um, same handle on Twitter, uh yeah,
and I perform at UCB, which is upright citizens great
here in l a mildly occult but also funny shows.
So you can look at my I don't know profile
or I post about shows. Come to one. You can

(53:46):
find me on at I right okay, on Twitter, which
is a little bit of a cult. Um if you
want to help me in my quest to arm the
f d AH and get them to take down the
A T F You know, maybe maybe hit me up there.
You are starting a cult right now, that is the goal. Yeah,
I've committed now huck it, you know, in for a penny,
in for a pound, I'm crossing that roubot. They're not
all bad, but fly the dice. They can be good, good,

(54:08):
a positive cult with the goal of getting tanks for
the f d A. Yeah. You can find us on
the internet behind the Bastards dot com. We will have
the sources for this episode. You can also find us
on the Grams and the twits. At at Bastards Pod
you can buy T shirts, cups, uh, stickers, um, and
maybe other products that will help me in my goals.

(54:31):
I feel like we've joked enough about the FDA things,
so I'm just not gonna I'm just gonna left that.
Let that thread drop. Yeah, I'm drinking coffee out of
buying the Bastard's mugg It's good, fortifies it. Yeah, I
feel smarter. There's a lot of vitamins in that. I
probably can't lie about that, but the FDA will come
after me. Vitamins are in the mugs drink. The mugs
get vitamins like an iron skillet. I will say, these

(54:53):
mugs will cure your diseases. Ye. This episode is going
to get comme at me, Motherfucker's all right, episodes over.
Mmmmm

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Robert Evans

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