Part One: Antonio Salazar: The Smartest Fascist Dictator

Robert sits down with with  Jeff May to talk about Antonio Salazar, the economics professor who became a brutal fascist dictator and was, sadly, really damn good at it.

(2 Part Series)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh, it's Behind the Bastard's a podcast that gets behind
the bastards. You know what this is. You know what
it means. We talk about bad people, the worst in
all of history, and today.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Start this with a very tony soprano.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Oh oh is that a tony soprano? I never watched
the Sopranos. Here to be angry at me about that
is post Sophie licker Litman, my producer and Jeff May.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
Haven't you had Matt Leeb on this show and yet you.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Still have not seen the Sopranos.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
What's wrong with you?

Speaker 4 (00:35):
That's an act of aggression.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Can you can you spend this weekend at least watching
the book?

Speaker 2 (00:40):
No, I'm sorry. I'm an Italian American. I was raised
in the Sopranos, you know, like got mobbed up family.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
You need this down the list?

Speaker 4 (00:49):
All right?

Speaker 3 (00:49):
All right, you need you.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
We had to change our last name.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
You need to watch the Sopranos this year. That is
your goal for the first year of twenty twenty five.
I'm disgusted with you right now.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
It's okay.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
I can use the Italian slurs. You can't, Sophie.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
I'm horrified by your behavior.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
I can use those slurs too. You can't tell you
absolutely can.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
I'm not Italian, but I know you're a but you
were a boxer, so it counts. Uh yeah, Jeff, how
are you doing, Jeff May.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
I'm good. It's been it's been a while. It's been
a while.

Speaker 5 (01:23):
It's been a long while since I visited. The embargo
is lifted, which is nice.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Yes, thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:28):
After those crime I so sorry for saying all those
really a horrible thing.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
I don't even know what I was thinking that.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
It's okay, it's okay. DEI is over. We can say
those things. Oh finally, the woke mob they came for
Jeff May. No, Jeff, you're one of our I mean
you're you're my old friend from back in the day,
by which I mean the time when I worked at
Cracked uh and lived in Los Angeles. And you're also
one of our favorite guests. And this is this is fun.

(01:56):
You and I have both seen the movie Ghost Dog,
featuring the magnificent Forest Whitaker American Samurai himself. You know
that's in the Criterion collection now. It should be, it
should be. It's perfect.

Speaker 4 (02:08):
It's a beautiful movie. I will say.

Speaker 5 (02:10):
I have bonded over my love of Ghost Dog Wave
Warrior with more than just you.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, it's an incredible film. I've been bringing up now
that and Or's out and everybody's talking about Sager Aar,
I'm like, you guys need a motherfucking see ghost Talk. Yeah, Like,
if you like that, you need to see ghost Talk.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah yeah you kind of do you should anyway, you
should anyway.

Speaker 5 (02:31):
In the Criterion closet, so like Mark Hamill could grab
it on an Instagram reel or something, you don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, it's perfect. So today we're talking about a dictator
who was, unfortunately maybe the best at being a dictator
on like a technical level, right, like if we're giving
technical awards on the actual like craft of dictatoring.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
So like the dictator oscars that they don't show on television.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah yeah, yeah, the Dictator oscars that don't make because
they're kind of boring, right like.

Speaker 4 (03:05):
They did it like last night we had the Dictator Oscar.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, this is the Dictator Oscar for like, yes, set
dressing or whatever. It goes to Antonio Crazy here. Yeah yeah, yeah, great,
great audio editor we're talking about. Have you did you
know that Portugal had a dictator at the same time
that like Germany and Italy had dictators in Spain.

Speaker 5 (03:27):
I mean I have to say yes because of my
history degree and all that, but like you know, I
forget shit.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
So Antonio Salazar was the dictator of Portugal from like
the thirties up to the seventies. Right, So he is
he has a very long run. It's a short yeah, yeah,
like twice he's got he's like two, he's like more
than two. He was like three Hitler's right, three almost
four Hitlers.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
Oh look at this guy, he's like four Hitlers.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Like he's like a four Hitler run. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
I gotta be honest, though he was did he did
he up Hitler numbers? That's why he lasted?

Speaker 5 (04:03):
Yeah, It's like I guess Hitler would be like the
the bo Jackson of dictators. Like it's like it's like
a very very bright burn. You don't mind me saying
such a terrible way to describe that. No, but then
a fizzle out after he had that hip injury.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Right, and Salazar has a hip injury in like sixty
eight that takes him out. You know, Salzar just gets long,
he's got the longevity, but he's in there a long time.
He's like that guy who was with the Patriots.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
Fuck, what's his name?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Everybody hates him, Tom Brady, Tom Brady Brady. Antonio Salazar
is the Tom Brady of dictators.

Speaker 5 (04:36):
Tom Brady is single handedly responsible for stopping a lot
of domestic violence in New England. So I'm going to
actually say, you know, if you really think about it,
it's a garbage fan base full of terrible people.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
It is. It is the Patriots the worst.

Speaker 5 (04:52):
And when he came in, we were like, I don't
know about okay, we love this guy.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
He's keeping things safe.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to say that about Antonio Salazar,
but he does have the staying power, right, and he's
one of these guys. He gets called a fascist a lot,
and there's an argument to be made for that. He
gets called a fascist generally because you know, he comes
up around the same time Hitler does, around the same
time Franco does a little bit after Mussolini, and they're

(05:18):
all kind of simpatico for a while. So there's this
this argument that like, well, Salazar was like a fascist
dictator as well, and you can kind of debate that.
But you know, I think if we want to put
it in like Beatles terms, right, Hitler's the John Lennon
of fascism and Mussolini's the George Harrison, and you know,
they kind of clock out first, which leaves Franco as

(05:40):
the ringo. And I think we've got to say that
maybe Salazar is the Paul McCartney fascism.

Speaker 4 (05:45):
I don't know. I mean, that's that's pretty good. Also,
Europe was a vibe huh.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, yeah, they were not doing well right after that
World War.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
They were certainly going for it. You know, I got it,
you gotta hand. They took big swings.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, you know, like, well, we're in our big swing
period to day and we didn't even have a World
War One over it, right, So who are we to judge?

Speaker 5 (06:08):
We can judge a little, I mean, to be fair,
we've had we've had we've had a few.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
We've had a couple. Yeah, we've taken our swings. This
is in our first set, so as we'll discuss. You know,
there's a lot of debate as to whether or not
you should call Salazara fascist. He certainly uses a lot
of fascism tools like there's aspects of it that he utilized,
and he has good relationships with all of the fascist
powers during his days, he's going to intervene to help
Franco win his civil war in Spain. But ideologically he's

(06:34):
not someone who's like super on board, especially with all
the weird Hitler stuff. Like he's not a cult to
personality guy. He's not a big ideology a fascism guy,
Like he thinks that stuff's kind of weird, and he's
above all, like an economics professor and a Catholic conservative
who's just kind of like, I'm the only guy smart
enough to run Portugal and all torture as many people

(06:55):
as I have to do in order to keep the
economy running, right, Like he has a balan. It's the budget,
no matter who has to die. Kind of motherfucker.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
I guess it really depends on like if fascism is
decided on at the start of the journey, yeah, or
just summed up at the end of the journey, right, like, yeah,
I'm not doing a fascism and then at the end
you're like kind of seems like you might have been Yeah,
with him, it would be.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
I think it looks at the start a lot like
a fascism, and then at the end it's like, well,
you were just kind of a garden variety dictator, like maybe,
but you never did any of the weird cult to
personality shit, like you were never like that kind of
stuff was sort of absent.

Speaker 4 (07:33):
But we'll talk about it.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
At the end, we could kind of say, where do
we want to where do we want to land on
this motherfucker on a fash scale, Yeah, on the fash scale.
But either way, he sucked, right, we're not debating that
part of it.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
So.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Antonio de Olivera Salazar was born on April twenty eighth,
eighteen eighty nine, in a small house in the village
of Vimiro. His parents were kind of odd ducks for
their era. His father Antonio, married his mom in eighteen
eighty one, when they were forty and thirty five. And
this is a lot older than people tend to It's
older that it's like pretty old for getting married now,

(08:08):
like back in the eighteen eighties, the average lifespan in
Portugal for men is forty six point five years. Right now,
that doesn't mean people died at forty seven, but it
means that, you know, infant mortality was so high that
those averages are low a lot. And this is still
pretty weird for you to wait this long to get married.
And it's also it's hard to conceive right when you're

(08:30):
when both parties are over thirty five years old, it's
relatively difficult, especially with eighteen eighties, you know, obstetrics technology.
The other thing that makes his mom and dad weird
is that they can read, which is not normal for
Portuguese peasants.

Speaker 4 (08:44):
Were modern Americans?

Speaker 2 (08:45):
If you're modern Americans, yes, thanks to chat GPT.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
Yeah right, sorry, how we ruined education? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (08:53):
Can we just say that the least surprising piece of
news just dropped and that people that use chat GPT.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Or morons right right right, that it breaks their brains.
That it's like atrophying you because you're not thinking about
how to put words together.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
Bad for you.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
That story this week about the guy that proposed to
his Ai girlfriend and then cried when she said yes.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
And then it breaks out that he's got like his
he's a human partner.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
I don't think they're married, but they have a kid together,
they have a child.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
I just yeah, oh fuck, so that's not Salasar's parents, right,
we're cooked.

Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
All the other Portuguese peasants are using eighteen eighties chat GPT,
which I guess is just being too busy to learn
how to read. But his mom and dad know how
to read now everyone else in their village, most of
the people living in this village who are because these
are again like all peasants, even though it's the eighteen eighties.
Outside of a couple of maybe aspects of modernity that
have crept in, most of the people in these villages

(09:49):
are living lives that like if you go back three
or four hundred years, there's more in common than there
is different, right, which we can't say about nobody, even
like the poorest rural people in the US today do
not live life that are similar to rural Americans in
the seventeen hundreds in a lot of ways. But that
is kind of the case in Portugal in this period,
a lot more so than it's going to be in
any later period. His village does have kind of one

(10:13):
thing going for it, which is that Vimiro, when he
is kind of a little kid, is chosen to be
the site of a railway station, right, which is going
to ensure that while a lot of small rural towns
kind of die out as modernity comes to Portugal. Vermiro
is going to continue to be like relevant, you know,
because there's this this connection to the rest of.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
The World's going to become the tombstone.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, it's it's a tombstone, a Portugal type situation.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
It's going to be dressed like undertakers with big black
mustaches and stuff. It's going to that's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
And yeah, Doc Holliday is going to show up with
fucking consumption. It's going to be incredible. Val Kilmer, Oh
my god.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Oh my god, so good.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, yeah, especially if you've seen that movie Val, He's
filmed as he was dying. Incredible stuff. Great movie. So
his mom is kind of the Val Kilmer of Miro,
and like Val Kilmer, she's a small business owner. I
don't actually know if that's true a Val, but it's
true of his mom.

Speaker 4 (11:06):
He was rolling.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, she's doing great. She's going to become an entrepreneur.
She's going to open like a tavern in this town
with like some rooms to rent, and that's going to
help the family rise up to what's effectively the Portuguese
middle class. While Antonio Salazar is like a kid to
an adolescent. Right, His family is going from we're kind
of near the bottom rong to we're actually doing pretty

(11:28):
well because there's this railway station picked for our town
and my mom knows how to capitalize on it.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
Right.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
His mom gets the money to start this business because
his dad also does okay for himself. He's an estate manager,
which means you've got these rich families who have like
generational wealth because their ancestors four hundred years ago plundered
the New World and they have big estates, but they
don't they're not going to take care. They don't want
a garden, they don't want to farm, they don't want
to do anything with them. So they hire a guy

(11:55):
like Antonio are Antonio's dad to take care of the
properties while they're away being rich, hanging out in their
other houses in Lisbon or whatever.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
You know.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
Hell yeah, man, capitalist feudalism.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Right, right, that's kind of what's going on here, and
that's the world his parents inhabit, and that's the world
Antonio kind of comes up in. Portugal is not a
healthy country as Salazar is growing up. Right, if you
remember the early period of colonialism, right after Columbus, you know,
quote unquote discovers the New World. The two powers that
are first like really expanding around the world and taking

(12:30):
a lot of colonies and taking advantage of you know,
Europe beginning this colonialization process are Spain and Portugal. And
Portugal is for a couple one hundred years a major
world power. They have colonies all over the planet because
they're just very early successful in the age of Sale,
and they rapidly take a lot of colonies, which is,
you know, Portugal is not a big country, so in

(12:50):
very short order, their colonial possessions are dozens of times
the size of the actual country itself. And this does
pretty well for them for a while. But like Spain,
they kind of also burn out quickly, right like as
the British Empire is starting to really pick up steam
as king shit, Portugal's kind of the sick man of colonialism,

(13:11):
or at least Portugal and Spain are both kind of
the sick men of colonialism.

Speaker 5 (13:15):
It's actually really funny because one of the three dates
that I told my students they would have to know
was fourteen ninety two, and it's I'm like, it's not
for who you think, Yeah, like it's not Columbus, but
it is his bosses. Because one of the reasons that
they really flopped super hard was they basically were like,
we're gonna make a Christo state, basically like an entirely
and they kicked out all the all the Jews and
the Muslims.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
Oh yeah, yeah, And so that basically.

Speaker 5 (13:37):
Means they kicked out their most educated and wealthy members
of their society and we're just like, we'll do it normally.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
Yeah, we'll figure this out. You kicked out the banks
and the universities basically, and so they just started crumbling
and they started building and then they were just they
couldn't keep going. So these help. It's very funny.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, and there's a lot to say about like taking
all of these you know, suddenly flooding their market with
precious metals too, and like that does with the value
of these things. Like there's a lot that goes on.
But Portugal is like not a wildly dissimilar story and
that kind of by the time the seventeen eighteen hundreds
are creeping around, things are starting to like look kind
of shitty, even though they still have massive overseas possessions,

(14:15):
which they're going to maintained until the middle late middle
of last century. So the fact that they've got all
these colonial territories Portugal is going to come in a
handy when Napoleon invades in eighteen oh seven and the
royal family of Portugal has to flee to Brazil, which
declares it's independence not long after this fact, So that's
no longer going to be a case for Portugal, you know,

(14:37):
kind of after this period, as is often the case
with royal families, Portugal's royal family not good at ruling.
The Catholic Church, which held tremendous power, coveted its position
as the sole provider of social services and the cultural
power that that brought. Very similar to Spain, you get
a lot of similar things with like basically Carlists, like
people who believe in the Catholic Church is the soul,

(14:59):
like legitimate sort of you know authority, you know, pushing
against these kind of republican ideals in the eighteen hundreds
nineteen hundreds, as modernity comes out.

Speaker 5 (15:09):
I mean, it is funny how much plague beat the
shit out of the Church. Oh yeah, after people came out,
they're like, these guys weren't doing shit.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, Wow. It turns out they were wrong about a lot.

Speaker 5 (15:21):
Turns out the pope in France. Yeah, surrounded himself in
a wall of fire. That doesn't seem good.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
We do that.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
I've done that before. It's not the worst thing to do.
But yeah, I mean it's cool, it's cool, It looks great.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
It is cool.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah. Also check out the movie, the new Paul Verhoven movie,
Bernadotta or something like that. It's about this nun in
Italy during the plague years. Fucking wild shit.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
She becomes a robot cop.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, exactly, it is cool, classic Paul Verhoven movie. So,
as a result, very little changes in Portugal and almost
nothing gets better until the king is ousted during a
civil war in the eighteen thirties. This is not going
to last super long, but for a period of time
there's this like liberal kind of party backed by Great Britain,
and they win and they see some property in the

(16:10):
church from the church and from the nobility, but they
also don't do much to fix the larger issues the
country has, and most Portuguese people still can't read. The
country has bent over under the weight of these Titanic
debts that have been accrued to from generations of overspending
and the country kind of continues to hobble along. Monarchists
are able to get like a weak king you know,

(16:30):
in there, and they quarrel with Republicans who are trying
to support like a new electoral system that also isn't
very sturdy. And it's into this kind of fucked up
and failing nation that Salazar grows up. Right, So this
is also what's happening, is he's watching both this increasingly
like sclerotic and ineffective, like royal family fail to hold power,

(16:52):
and he's also watching these gasps of republicanism that aren't
really fixing things either.

Speaker 5 (16:57):
And we've never seen this in the background, right, dictator, Yeah,
this has never a failing place and learn how to
how to play certain people chords in order to get
what they want.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah, no, never before.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
But yeah, nothing's working for him, except for he sees
his parents like succeeding, right, because they're unusually educated and
ambitious and they want more for their kids. His older sister,
Marta becomes a school teacher. His parents seem to have
been the normal amount of strict for their era, but
a biographer, Tom Gallagher notes that as the youngest child
and only boy, Antonio Salazar was babied and quote received

(17:34):
none of the punishments that his mother occasionally meet it
out right, so he's kind of by the time he
comes along, his sisters have sort of gotten all of
the spankings, right, not an uncommon youngest kids story where yeah,
my parents were way bigger dix when I was a kid.

Speaker 4 (17:50):
What happened. What you need, though, is you need that gap.
You need a bigger gap between the siblings, the top
sibling and the younger, the oldest thing, because if it's
too close, you just get the beatings.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Any Yeah, you just get the beatings. But if it's
long enough, your parents are tired, their arms don't work
as well, especially when there's old as Antonio.

Speaker 5 (18:08):
My brother and I were two years apart, so he
would beat me and then I would I would get
something there you go.

Speaker 4 (18:14):
But then, like I know, people lay it on my
little brother's fifteen years younger than me. It's like, well,
that kid's not getting hit.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, you're not going to hit your fifteen years Yeah,
then you're just beating a child, right, But we're all perfect, yeah,
as opposed to kids beating each other the way God intended,
so he's the favorite of the family, not just of
his parents, but of his sisters too. His mom's going
to become obsessed with setting him up for success. For

(18:39):
his part, Antonio never seems to have sought the limelight.
He is a quiet kid. Gallagher's biographer posits that he
was kind of overwhelmed by his mother's personality, but also
kind of in awe of her capabilities, because she's just
this very competent woman. She's, you know, raising her kids.
She's helping to farm, you know, because they have to
grow food for their own survival. And she's a small

(19:02):
business owner right, and is kind of single handedly raising
the family's position in society. While he's not helping her
at the family business or helping in the fields, young
Antonio spends his time alone with his dog in the woods.
He wouldn't have had a lot of free time by
our standards, and much of his learning had to be
self directed, right, because the Portuguese education system is not good.

(19:24):
His parents kind of help him learn to read, and
then he's on his own for a lot of his
early education. Outside of that, by the time he's ten,
his mother had convinced his father that he's not getting
enough attention or challenge in what education he is receiving.
So he is enrolled in a seminary in the north
of the country, right, And this is the normal story.

(19:45):
If you grow up in a very Catholic place in
this time and you're a really smart kid, but your
family's poor, basically your only option is will enroll you
in seminary and they will teach you stuff on the
expectation that you'll become a priest, right, which is like
half the time they were like, psych, yeah, I'm not
doing that, No, thank you.

Speaker 4 (20:04):
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 5 (20:05):
And then and then there's like nine months left that
I guess I'll write all the books.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Then yeah, I guess I'll be the one who keeps
remembering how to read for this town.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
Time to illuminate some more fucking manuscripts. I guess. Great.
I'm not tired of that at all.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
So he is, as you state, it's one of those
things where he's technically training to be a priest, but
you don't have to. You're not like locked in and
Salazar he's a good little Catholic boy, and he initially
seems to have adopted this as an ambition for himself
where he's like, well, yeah, I guess being a priest
is the thing I'm going to do that's not going
to last super long, and he's going to stop wanting

(20:41):
to be a priest. Probably we don't know this perfectly,
but the likeliest reason why he stops wanting to be
a priest is the normal reason young boys stop wanting
to become priests started and oh he starts fucking right,
he starts fucking you know, he's like, oh, you know what,
being a priest might suck ass?

Speaker 4 (20:58):
Actually, heaven sounds cool, but is busting and not? Is
it is cool? Yeah? Cool? Is getting laid? Absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
I can give myself heaven whenever I want, right, right, right,
as long as I'm able to.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
Yeah, we have heaven at home.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, we've got heaven at home, or at least in
my next door neighbor's house. So he meets a girl.
He actually meets several girls. His first is you know,
she's sixteen, so is he. And she'll remain Maria di Figurito.
She'll remain a friend and a political advisor for the
rest of their lives.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Right.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
This kind of first girl that he hits it off
with is going to be she'll be influential politically in
Portugal while he's the ruler, because she'll send him letters
about like how this is how this is working, so
this is working, and he'll kind of continue to trust her.
The second girl he falls for is Philismina the Olivera,
and she's two years older than him. Right the two

(21:49):
meet at a railway station and, according to some accounts,
begin a love affair that is what primarily derail Salazar's
ambitions of priesthood. There's some dispute in this. Tom Gallagher
argued that Salazar kind of keeps true to his vows
for a while and then gives up the seminary later
for another reason. But there are other arguments that I
find really credible that it's probably a liaison with this girl,

(22:11):
even though it takes a while that makes young Antonio realize,
oh fuck, I'm not going to take a vow of celibacy.
Peter Booker, who's co founder of the Algarve History Association,
writes an article about Salazar's alleged romantic history for Portugal Resident,
and he noted Salazar was studying to be a priest
at the time and attended the seminary, but that fact
did not prevent him from beginning a love affair. She

(22:32):
was a friend of Marta, one of Salazar's sisters, and
during the young holidays, Phillismina would say at the Salazar
family home, they exchanged in numeral letters. Philismina began to
have problems of conscience regarding her relationship with Salazar. She
was a devout Catholic and did not want him to
renounce the priesthood because of her Little did she know
that not only was Salazar already thinking about abandoning his career,
but he was also about to dump her. And this

(22:54):
seems plausible, right, It's not just this girl, but it's
in general. He's starting to get laid and he's like,
I don't need to stay with this lady. But also
the priest's clearly not for me because I kind of
like fooling around, right.

Speaker 5 (23:06):
Okay, So we are sort of avoiding the five hundred
pound gorilla in the room, which is that those vows
have never mattered on the Catholic clergy. If you want
to know how many popes had illegitimate children.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Oh man, google clearly all of them. Oh you can
get up to pope and still be.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Fucking oh yeah, oh yes, So the norm is for
popes to get laid, which is part of the problem, right,
one of many, but yeah, it's it's uh, that's kind
of what's happening with him.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
But he's also like.

Speaker 5 (23:37):
It's very important to note that this is the church
and this is the steeple, right, open it up and
fuck all the people.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Right, That's kind of where Salazar's got to take it,
except for like, I don't even need the church, I
don't need the steeple. I've just got to fuck I'm
the people. I'm just gonna fucking become an economist. So
he's a bookish Catholic boy, and he like, yeah, he
starts figuring out, like this is not the future for me.
So he leaves the seminary. In nineteen oh eight, this

(24:03):
is a big year for Portugal. It's the same year
King Carlos and the crown Frince Louis Philippe are assassinated
while they drive through Lisbon in an open coach. So
this is like a daring. It's called the Lisbon regi Aside,
and it's a very famous like moment in the early
twentieth century, there's a lot going on behind this assassination.
It gets blamed by some people. Tom Gallagher, who's kind

(24:26):
of a more conservative guy, this biographer whose book I
read on Salazar, blames it on anarchists. Much as I'd
like to take credit or anarchists take credit for Killege King.
That's not really what's happening here. These guys are like
radical Republicans, right, I don't mean in the modern term,
I mean like people who support a.

Speaker 5 (24:45):
Republican except the right public. Yeah, yeah, like I think
we I mean, I know, we conflate them. But the
difference between Republicans and Democrats and then liberal and conservative, like, yeah,
it all depends on labeling, right.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
And these guys are like radical, like we want to
be able to vote and fuck having a royal family. Right,
that's the kind of radicals they are as opposed to,
like being radical in favor of the abolition of the state,
which is more of an anarchist thing. That's not really
what's going on with these guys. There's a lot else
that's happening behind this region side, right, that kind of
helps inspire it. The Portuguese government has just conducted negotiations

(25:19):
with great Britain over the extent of Portugal's African territory,
and Portugal makes a lot of compromises and how much
of Africa they're going to continue to hold, and this
is seen as disastrous by many nationalists, and there's a
lot of Republican nationalists who are like, well, the crown
just gave up a lot of our overseas empire. Another
thing that's going on in the background is that, as

(25:40):
is often the case with Portugal, they're terrified that Spain
is going to invade, right, because if you look at
a map, Spain is a lot of Iberia and Portugal
is pretty small.

Speaker 4 (25:51):
So how did they.

Speaker 5 (25:52):
Avoid unification that in the late fourteen hundreds it's Granada, Nevada,
Castile and Aragon. I mean Aragon Castille were obviously the marriage,
but then they sucked in Navarre and Grenada.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
Let's go get Portugal, man.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
There's a period of time where they are occupied by Spain, right,
but there's also like reasons of natural defensiveness, and just
like the power of a Portuguese state in that period
that Portugal, but the Portugal doesn't you know, wipe up
obviously unified, but that is constantly a fear going on
in the background, and it's one of those things. It's
not really a thing in modern Portuguese politics, I don't think,

(26:27):
but it's like a huge factor in everybody's thinking right now.
Is that, like Spain is right next to us, and
they're much bigger, and they were going and they're goblin
shit up, and there's this broader fear that like Portugal,
we used to be great and we're being sidelined by
greater powers because we've kind of slid into citizens. Right,
we're old and we're tired, and we don't have the

(26:48):
juice we used to have, and we're going to get
eaten up entirely if we're not careful, right, Like, that's
a major political factor in everything that's going on here anyway.
You know what else is a major political actor advertising.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
And we're back.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
So the Republican movement is starting to pick up steam
in Portugal kind of in the period when the king
is assassinated. Yeah, because the railways there's steam.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
Now.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
The king gets kind of politically active in politics, which
makes things even more chaotic and inefficient because it's like
it's not great, he's not good at it. The King's
not really good at much. And the king who gets
assassinated has appointed this guy to act as his minister,
who's widely seen as like a dictatorial figure. And eventually
two Republicans with rifles decide, like, enough of this bullshit,

(27:42):
We're going to take matters into our own hands. And yeah,
these guys are kind of radical Republicans, and one of
them has some history of anarchist sympathy. He's part of
an anarcho syndicalist organization in his youth. But they're they're militant,
like republican activists with rifles. One of them's in the
art Army, and yeah, they shoot and kill the king

(28:03):
and his heir, and the Lisbon Regiside becomes kind of
a seminal moment for right wing politics in Portugal. Salazar,
who's a young man at this point, he's leaving the
seminary this year. He's livid when he finds out what's happened.
Now he is starting to get political. At this point,
he's been elected the president of his student body association,
and in the spring of nineteen oh eight, he publishes

(28:24):
a column attacking his fellow Catholics because it become so
politically separated from the shocking violence in the capital that like,
we Catholics need to get more political in order to
save our country from this sort of radical republican sentiment
that's going to destroy like force us into anarchy. Salazar's
thinking here is probably influenced by the writing of a

(28:46):
far right propagandist from France named Charles Morris, who wrote
for France's most popular proto fascist newspaper, Action Francais. Salazar's
argument is that democracy cannot maintain order and separation of
church and state as a calamity for stability in public
order right, which is very much like taken from Marris's
the stuff that Mars is writing in France at the time.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
I would like to also add that Action Francis is
my favorite rapper.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah, probably politically different than the original newspaper.
These are the guys like Action Fransei and Mars are
gonna have a big role in like the far right
French coup attempt that's gonna happen kind of right before
World War Two, Like they're kind of a major inciting
factor to it. And these are the guys that Salas are.
So that's part one of the reasons why people are like, oh,

(29:32):
is this guy fascist? It is like he's definitely very
influenced by some proto fascist thinkers.

Speaker 4 (29:37):
Could you imagine de gaull Of trying to run France?

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Oh my god, could you imagine? I mean, yeah, in
the post war period. Share it doesn't go great.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
Could you imagine de Gaulle. Uh, it's we got we
like that. It's a history pun.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, it's a good history pun. It's also just his
last name.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
I'm sorry, Hey, I'm gonna go. I'm sorry about that, guys,
I'm going to take off.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
It's okay. We can forgive like one French pun. But
that's all. No more so Salazar. He starts making some
stabs at politics, right, you know, kind of in this
post regis side period, but he's not fully committed to it.
Part of this is that the wind is kind of
blowing against the right wing, you know, after that king
gets assassinated, the sort of left is looking like they've

(30:24):
got the wind behind their sales. So he's like, I
don't want to take a.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
Big, big move. It's a pretty big move shooting the
king and his son. Yeah, quite literally a coup.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, try it in your own monarchy triumph.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
You know, a rifle, a couple of small pieces of lead.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Get you to the game, Yeah, get you right in
really changes the ground. So he's like, I don't feel
like this is a safe time to be like a
far right Catholic activist, So I'm just going to take
a teaching job and like lecture talking about the economy.
He graduates from his second area vucation in nineteen ten,
he opts to leave the church, and you know, one

(31:05):
of the practical reasons behind this is that the church
is kind of losing power. So Salazar winds up attending
the prestigious University of Cuimbra as a law student in
October of nineteen ten, thanks to the financial support of
a family that his dad works for. This is like
the family his dad is, you know, taking care of
their grounds, and Salazar tutors like the mistress of this

(31:26):
wealthy family, like he tutors her kids in exchange for
financial support. So he teaches her kids to be less stupid,
and they pay for him to go to this fancy college,
this university, which is going to really change his life.
It's going to give him an opportunity to become someone
in politics. And this change in his life where he

(31:47):
starts going to the school and his options start to
open up companies. Another dramatic change in Portuguese government, because
the Republicans revolt and they force the monarchy entirely out
of the country. Right, they'd killed the king and his heir,
but you know, you've still got kind of a weak
monarchy in there. And then there's a revolt a little
while later, and now Portugal is just a straight up

(32:07):
republic for a little while.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Salazar bides his time as the republic tries to consolidate
his power, and he works towards an advanced degree. He
gets into academic tutoring as a side business, and it
proves to be very lucrative. Like he's teaching a lot
of kids. He's making good money, and he's investing it,
and he proves to be very good investing money. Right,
He's just one of these guys that understands how to
turn a dollar into a couple of dollars and then

(32:32):
a couple of more dollars and so on and so forth.

Speaker 5 (32:35):
I'm always weirdly jealous of those people. Yeah, Yeah, they're
just really good at making money.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:42):
And also I'm just like yeah, but that must be
like a if you care about money, that must be miserable.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, I mean, and he's not like a super happy person.
It doesn't seem like he doesn't have outside of like
constantly sleeping around and investing his money and writing economic treatises.
That's pretty much his whole life at this point, and
being really angry that the Catholic Church isn't more powerful.
Those are his hobbies, right, I mean, some of those
hobbies are cool.

Speaker 4 (33:07):
Yeah. One of those hobbies is cool. One of those
hobbies is just cool man.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, the other hobbies kind of lame.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
Yeah. Then dudes rock and then sometimes dudes do not rock.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, And he's more on the dudes not rocking side
of things. But he does accept for a while that like,
I can't fight democracy right now, and the monarchy's too weak,
so it's not really worth me fighting for. So he
kind of pivots and he starts, you know, coming up
with his own theories about how to reform things. His
attitude is that the republic is going to fail, and

(33:38):
so he's trying to figure out like what systems should
replace it, and he does a lot of reading on
the encyclicals of Pope Leo the eighth, who had encouraged
Catholic organization and power under a democratic system, right, which
had Leo the eighth had been like a democracy probably
here to stay. What we shouldn't fight to have like
kings under the Catholic Church anymore. We should organize instead

(33:59):
to legislative power in democratic systems for Catholicism.

Speaker 5 (34:04):
That was like a millennium afterwards, right, like Leo the
eighth that if I recall, he's from like before one thousand,
isn't he?

Speaker 2 (34:13):
There's an anti pope named Pope Leo the eighth who
was around the one thousands. But this Pope Leo the
eighth that we're talking about was head of the Catholic
Church from February eighteen seventy eight until nineteen oh three.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Oh oh, so recent.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
It's complicated. There's another earlier Leo the eighth, you're right,
who's around nine. Yeah, he's an anti pope from nine
sixty three to nine sixty five who's election was debated.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
Wasn't he the one that was like they were all
excommunicating each other.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, yeah, he was during the anti pope period. But
there's another Leo the Eighth who's the head of the
and who's an official pope from like eighteen seventy eight
to nineteen oh three, right man, yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
Pope's right, why would you take that name?

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, I'm not familiar enough with papistry to give you
a whole like why he just I had to take
that kind of cursed name. But he's he's the pope
who like writes an encyclical being like, we Catholics should
just find a way to kind of make democracy work
for Catholicism, right, we should organize and find ways to
gain power in democracies.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
That's kind of like one of the things he writes.
And this has a really big impact on salas Ar.
But no, good, good point. This is not that the
pope from the nine sixties. Okay, that guy was debatably
not the real pope. I didn't mean to derail the pod,
but I'm just like, wait, I know it's always hard
with the anti popes, Right, there's a lot of names
where you're like wait a second, yeah, yeah, no, no.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
And I'm sure you guys have talked about it before.

Speaker 5 (35:36):
But just this idea that there was like at one point,
like just a bunch of popees excommunicating and we.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Could get there again. That's my dream for Catholicism. Yeah,
fuck it. Are you not happy with the current pope?
Go to Avignon and have a new pope made, you know,
I mean, I do like really fighting. Yeah, a Chicago
it's nice to have a Chicago Pope, but I think
we could get a Boston pope and really just have
a battle of the accents, you.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
Know, one hundred percent honest. We don't have a great
track record.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
We probably shouldn't have a Boston pope.

Speaker 5 (36:05):
Cardinals have done some stuff. I mean, to be fair, most,
if not all, cardinals have done some stuff.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, very few clean cardinals out there, you know what.

Speaker 5 (36:13):
I like the idea of a Boston pope though, because, like,
that's the first hope that would be willing to fight
you in a toll booth.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yeah. I like that.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Let's just give it to Ben Affleck. See if he
could take.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
It so he can do a bad accent of his
own town.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, Pope Affleck the first.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
Let's let it happen. Yeah, Pope Benedick kid.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, so Salazar, Who's who's you know? Starting to accept like, okay,
maybe we should find a way to organize under democracy.
He joins a school association while he's in college, the
Center for Christian Democracy, which when the Republicans had come
to power they'd like banned for a couple of years,
but ultimately allowed to reform in nineteen twelve. And it

(36:56):
was for this group that Salazar gives his first public speech,
where he describes himself as a Christian democratic soldier. Two
years later, he leads a delegation to Lisbon which protests
an attempt to turn a local church building into a museum.
His academic career flourishes around this time. He receives awards
from his liberal and conservative teachers alike because his economic

(37:18):
papers are, in their eyes, like so brilliant and well
thought out. And he opens a consulting firm that gives
out financial and legal advice to companies and whatnot that
are trying to figure out how to get by. And
this very chaotic time in which the Portuguese economy is
not doing well, and he's good enough at this per
Tom Gallagher quote, he now had enough money to augment

(37:40):
his wardrobe with elegant clothes. He attended soirees and receptions,
and his circle of friends widened Catholics and conservatives predominated,
but not all of them were from such backgrounds. So
he's making money, he's starting to enter high society. He's
becoming a known man, and he's becoming a known like
kind of firebrand right wing intellectual type. Right, he's a

(38:00):
little bit of like a Jordan Peterson figure, if Jordan
Peterson had been good at something. And he continues to
work as a tutor, which seems to still have been
his kind of bread and butter. He would later claimed
tutoring did two things for me. It kept me in
the university and it kept me out of trouble. But
this is not exactly true, right, he's like sleeping around.
He is still fucking right, and he's kind of noteworthy

(38:23):
as a figure in this period. Most of his earliest
friends are women and girls, including sixteen year old Julia Parastrello,
who's the daughter of his godmother and the wealthy benefactors
of his family. Right, so this is the daughter of
the family that's like paying for him to go to college,
that like his dad, is employed by he.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
Falls How old is this man? Again?

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Very good point. She is sixteen and he is twenty
three years old. So that's a bit of an age.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
Gap, it is, and that's uncomfortable period for the.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Era's It's not like it wouldn't have been if he
had have been from the same social strata as she,
it wouldn't have been noticed in the era, right.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (39:03):
It's kind of one of those things where like you're
looking back and you're like, you know what, Yeah, that's
age appropriate for the time.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
It would it wouldn't have been wild like people would
if he'd been rich. If he'd been rich, it wouldn't
have been weird. But because he's from a poor background,
her parents are like absolutely not. And we look at
the age gap and go like, oh, yeah, that's not inappropriate,
but they're just being like, well, but his parents aren't rich,
so this is an inappropriate match, right, that's the only
real issue they have.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
He's like, don't worry, Yeah, I'll take care of that.

Speaker 5 (39:33):
It's sort of like the Doctor Pepper guy named doctor
Pepper after the dad that said he'd never amount to anything.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
That's that?

Speaker 5 (39:39):
Is that the story of doctor Pepper. I it might
be apocryphal, but I'm pretty sure it's. Doctor Pepper was
the guy that wouldn't allow a dude to marry the
creator wanted to marry the guy's daughter.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
And he said, no, that sounds accurate as the for
the official soda of Texas. At that, that sounds like
the kind of cod man origin story.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
I don't like that. The official soda of Texas is
my favorite soda.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Oh it is, unfortunately, But let's turn to a more
comfortable subject than Texas. This twenty three year old hitting
on a teenager that much better. He decides to hit
on her in the most appropriate manner for the time,
which is he writes an article about how hot he
is for this girl in a Catholic magazine. He had

(40:23):
contributed to this publication before, but he'd mostly written like
serious articles about Catholicism and democracy and like scholarly studies
about like how what the Catholic Church, what role it
should have in a modern society. And so he kind
of changes up on his normal publication by writing a
column that's just titled she, and in it he's describes

(40:45):
it as like it's kind of written as a fictional piece,
and he's writing as sort of like an anonymous author
who's in love with a girl who lives in a
wealthy manner, but is financially out of his league, and
it's written in such a way that the subject of
his affections is anonymized, and he can argue, like, this
is not a literally true article. It's like I'm I'm writing,
you know.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
It's like I'm a plagiarizing Lady in the tramp.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
But it's it's it's very clear that like, oh, this
is Salazar writing about a teenager that he's hot for. Right,
that's too that's from a family that's too rich for him.
And I can't imagine what must have been going through
his head to make him write this thing, let alone,
Like his editor is like, well, you mostly write about
the pope, but yeah, this article about how you you've
got a crush out a thirteen year old girl sounds great. Man,

(41:30):
let's uh thought she was sixteen? Wait or sixteen? Sorry, sorry,
sixteen year old girl. He's like, yeah, why not, let's
let's publish this fucker.

Speaker 4 (41:37):
Yeah, I did.

Speaker 5 (41:38):
I did need to clarify, specifically because I previously had
gone on record and be it saying that wasn't that
bad for the time.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
No, no, no, this is it's sixteen and twenty three, Okay,
So I don't I can't get into the head of
this editor who's like, yeah, this sounds like a good
article for you to publish, Antonio. And I can't get
into Antonio, who is like, yeah, this, this will clearly
work for me, right and unfortunately for him, fortunately probably

(42:04):
for that girl his the girl like her mom, who's
again the patron of Salazar's family, she catches onto this
like she reads this magazine because she is from a rich,
conservative Catholic family, and she sees, Oh, this tutor we've
hired to tutor our teenage daughter is writing an article
about how he's got a crush on a teenage girl

(42:26):
who lives in a manner and who's much richer than him.
I wonder if it's Antonio, we should probably start watching them, right, Like,
we should keep an eye on these two. This does
not sound good.

Speaker 4 (42:39):
That seems pretty chills. Really, hey, should should we paying
attention to this?

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, we should probably keep an eye on what's happening
with this kid and our daughter.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
If a Facebook dad saw this, he'd be like, touch
my family, and they'll be two hits, me hitting you
and you hitting the ground.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
But they don't have Facebook, so they're their only option
is to like keep an eye on her homework. So
they're like paying attention to the homework he's giving her.
And Antonio gives Julia some suspicious homework, right, He tells
her to write an essay on love. And so this
this really gets their their guard up and they're like, okay, yeah,
he's definitely hitting on our daughter. And then her mom

(43:18):
cut finds like she's there. They start monitoring Julia's male
and they find a letter that Salisar sends Julia, which
is to be blunt, very inappropriate, right, and the paristrella
is again their primary problem is that he's poor and
she's rich. And so after they catch this letter, they
just make sure he's not going to be tutoring her
anymore and he's never going to get any unobserved access

(43:42):
to their daughter again. Right, So they lock this down
because she's supposed to marry a rich guy, right, That's
that's their reasoning.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Yeah no, no, no, no no no no no no no
no no no.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah absolutely heard the song. Yeah. Now, one of Salazar's
mentors in the church, who's like one of these fathers
who's kind of taking this kid under his wing, finds
out about this. I think Julia's mom comes to him
and is like, you need to talk to this boy,
and so he sits down with Salazar and they have
like a literal come to Jesus moment where he's basically like, hey,

(44:12):
you're one of the best minds that are The Catholic
conservative movement has what the fuck are you doing pining
over a teenager in the goddamn newspaper? Are you out
of your mind?

Speaker 4 (44:21):
Right?

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Like, this is not smart behavior? And this warning. Salazar
never stops socializing with women and girls, right. He will
continue to do that for most of the rest of
his life, but he is going to get a lot
more careful about it, and he's going to learn how
to like hide this in a much better way than
writing newspaper articles about his crushes. So he takes that warning.

(44:43):
And you know what else our listeners should take is
the advice of these products and services.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
Take note of what we're about to say.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Yeah, yeah, take note, and you give some companies your
credit card information. It never works out badly, no breaches,
it's never happened.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
And we're back. Ah.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
So Salazar is kind of establishing himself as an intellectual.
He's learning how to flirt sometimes even with adults. And
while this is going on.

Speaker 5 (45:19):
Yeah, if he had a nickname, can we call him
the sexual intellectual?

Speaker 4 (45:22):
Yeah, yeah, you could call him that. I'm going to
for the rest of the show.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
You shouldn't, but that's yeah, that's what he's doing, right,
And the new Republican government of Portugal is kind of
shitting the bed as he is coming up and becoming
more prominent and learning how to kind of keep a
lid on some of his proclivities. And part of why
the Republican government shits the bed in this period is
that World War One happens and Portugal does not have

(45:48):
a dog in that fight, right, they shouldn't have. There
is no reason. You just look at the map. There's
no fucking reason for Portugal to get involved in World
War goddamn One.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
Like we're gonna go swimming, Yeah, go swimming. You're live
in Portugal, enjoy the beach. What is wrong with you?

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Don't send soldiers to die in the Western Front, you know.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
On some teenager to get wrapped up in barbed wire
waiting to kill Kaiser. Get out of here. Come on,
what are you doing? You got a couple of frisbees,
some sketch balls, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
You have a there's a couple of there's a lot
of smaller European countries like this that are like, you
have no you have no reason to get involved, and
they do and it goes badly for everyone who's like, well,
maybe if we get involved in World War One, we
can help tip things and we can get some shit
in the in the peace negotiations after. And the Republican
government they largely get involved in World War One because

(46:37):
they've got all these African colonies and they're worried that
if there's like a negotiated peace, England might give away
some of Portugal's African possessions to the Kaiser in exchange
for like a better peace deal, and so we don't
really want to risk that. So we'll send some men
off to die in the Western Front and fighting in Africa,
and they wind up losing like ten thousand soldiers and

(46:57):
just pointless battles. Right in World War one terms, they
get off pretty light, Like, that's not a lot of
guys to lose in World War One by the standards.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Also, ten thousand people, right.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
It's still ten thousand people who absolutely didn't need to
be involved in that stupid fucking war and it costs
a shitload of money. And just the fact that they've
gotten involved in this disastrous war and they don't get
really shit in the piece. It rattles the new regime's
public support. People are like, well, fuck, this Republican government
doesn't seem a whole lot better than the one that

(47:30):
it replaced, right, pointless wars, wasting money on stupid bullshit?
Did we just replace one set of assholes with another
set of assholes? And sallazz pretty much mystery politics. Yeah,
that's the world, right, It's like, yeah, which set of assholes?
You know, maybe they suck a little less?

Speaker 5 (47:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's like I wouldn't mind an asshole
that's not trying to like destroy the lives of every
person in the country.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Yeah, yeah, maybe we can get a slightly better asshole
who's just.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
Corrupt and incompetent.

Speaker 5 (47:57):
And if we've got to throw some adrinochrome at him
to keep it, let's do it.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
Yeah. Keep the peace, you know.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Keep the peace and keep the adrenochrome flowing.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
Sally Man, I got to try that stuff because.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
It sounds it's good, it's great. You got to get
it from the brain of somebody who's had it really harvested,
you know before that.

Speaker 5 (48:14):
Yeah, you don't want like the fake no no, no,
true blood adrenochrome.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
No, no, you want you want the really good ship.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
From the source, directly from the source. That's right, that's right.
This episode brought to you by ass.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yeah, exactly, use a promo code.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
Uh uh.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Now, I'm not going to make a Jeffrey Epstein joke here.
What I am going to say is that Antonio Salazar,
in this period when people are starting to get angry
at the Republic, he becomes a very popular lecturer. And
he's also he's working as an economics professor right now,
so he's lecturing about how fucked up the system is,
how the right and the conservative Catholics need to come
into power, and he's also writing studies on like wheat

(48:52):
reform and the role of gold and finance, and he's
repeatedly arguing Portugal's government is spending too much money, which
it is. Like he's not wrong about his fundamental economic conclusions,
and his economic work is widely applauded. And in July
of nineteen eighteen, he appears on the Color of Catholic
illustrated as an up and coming thinker. Yeah, the swimsuit edition.

(49:15):
He's naked, he's got one of those you know, Italian
banana hammic.

Speaker 4 (49:18):
Tasteful. Yeah, it's very tasteful, right, but you know they're
like Portugal. You know, he's right there on the water,
like it's natural. Yeah, yeah, the lighting's perfect. So by
this point a new group of anti government rebels is ascendant.
They're called the integralists, and these are members of the
wealthier classes who had sought a break from the republic
and returned to a more authoritarian government, if not a monarchy,

(49:42):
you know. So they're like, we.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Probably can't go all the way back to the way
things used to be, but we could. We should have
a system where the rabble have less power, where like
regular people have less ability to like influence the government.
And a lot of folks in Portugal, especially in like
the middle class and upper middle class, are more sympathetic
to these aims because in the aftermath of the war,
Portugal is in chaos. The new government is running up

(50:05):
tremendous debts, and even though they're on the winning side
of the war, they're not spared the unrest that hits
in places like Germany, there's an open civil war in
the north of the country and a monarchist coup in
nineteen nineteen that gets suppressed, and in that same year
as there's this civil war in this coup, four different
governments come and go and Lisbon right, this is like
a parliamentary system where if the government can't form a coalition,

(50:28):
it gets dissolved, and so there's just constant turnover in chaos.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
I like the idea that they attempted a coup in
nineteen nineteen. It's like, which, where'd you get that idea? Guys?

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah, wow, no one else was doing coups in nineteen
nineteen Creative Portugal.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
Wow, i'ly going for it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
So the same year that that's all going on, nineteen nineteen,
Salazar gets suspended from his job for spreading monarchist propaganda,
although he argues in court that he's not political, he
has only involvement in politics as voting, and he publishes
an article defending himself widely in which he argues, I
am convinced that politics alone can never solve the great
problems that demand solution, and that it is a grave

(51:05):
mistake to expect everything from their evolution or from an
arbitrary departure from their normal course. I'm sure that the
solution is to be found more in each one of
us than in the political color of a ministry. So
far as I can, I try to make my students
men men in the best sense of the word, and
good Portuguese of the type which Portugal needs to make
her great.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
Right now, let me tell you about this girl I love. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Now, let me tell you about this teenager that I
got the huts for.

Speaker 4 (51:28):
Yeah. Now.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
The reality is that Salazar is very political, right He
gets his PhD after the war ends, and he is
actively as a teacher trying to cultivate this new generation
of conservative activists. He helps found the Catholic Center Party
and in nineteen twenty one he's one of three of
their members to be elected to the Parliament. He actually

(51:50):
only gets to go to work at the Parliament for
two days, and he hates it, right because there's these
all these constant debates over what to do, and he
can't just tell people, this is what you're going to
do to fix the economy, this is what we're going
to do to get things on the right course. He
gets really angry, and he's like, I don't want to
do this fucking job. Even though he gets elected to
several important financial committees, but he starts whining to his

(52:13):
mentors and the Catholic clergy and the university that he
doesn't want to do this job a campaigned to get
it's too hard, he's stuck.

Speaker 4 (52:19):
In the mud.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
And his mentors are like, but you're in power. You
have a chance to put your theory into practice, and
they accuse him of not taking the work seriously.

Speaker 5 (52:28):
I would like to add that this is the most
relatable man we have ever covered on this show, right right.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
And just the terms like, yeah, it sucks to be
in politics.

Speaker 4 (52:35):
Yeah, it's a guy that wanted a job. And then
he's immediately like I immediately regret wanting this job. My god,
what have this job you wanted? Yeah? And I fucking
hate it.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah, it's terrible. And he gets really lucky that in October,
like he only ever does like two days actually doing
this job in parliament, and in October the Conservative government
and coalition collapses because left wing militants assassinate the Prime
Minister and a number of their other con served with
political enemies. So he's like, well, I guess I'm not
going to continue trying to be in the government seems dangerous.

(53:07):
Right now, I'm going to go back to being a teacher.
And all this violence, which isn't limited to the assassinations
or to the left, there's just a lot of political violence,
largely in Lisbon. And you know, it's happening as they're
going through multiple governments every single year. There's all this conflict.
The economy is in the shitter, the currency is worth nothing,
the republic is obviously weak, and people are tired of

(53:30):
just this constant turnover of nothing working. And as they're
continuing to be exhausted, in nineteen twenty two, they watch
fascism come to Italy and they also watch this right
wing military dictatorship takeover in Spain under Primo di Rivera
the following year, and they're like, well, maybe, you know,
maybe it's not exactly Italian fascism, maybe it's not exactly

(53:51):
what the Spanish you're doing, but some sort of like
authoritarian right wing regime. Maybe that'll fix all of our problems, right,
that's always yeah, that historically fixes probably, Yeah, historically seems
like the right idea.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
Yeah, nascism, primavera or whatever the hell is.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yah, primo di rivera, Yeah, we'll take it. So by
this point the right is a scendant across Portugal. Young
military officers who had been radicalized during the war link
up with youth organizations, a lot of which had been
inspired by Marris's movement in France and the writing of
guys like Salazar. Right, he's not like leading directly, but
he has been the intellectual father of a lot of

(54:27):
these kind of right wing youth organizations, and you know
they are starting to gain power, even at the same
time as he can barely keep himself together, Like he
is scared by number one. It's dangerous to be a
public conservative intellectual in this period, dangerous to be anyone
who's public and political in this period.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
And he's intellectual in any period.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Right, it's never super safe, and he is. He's kind
of crippled by panic attacks and psychosomatic illnesses, right, Like,
he can't really keep himself together, even though his side
of things seems to be doing well. He runs for
office in nineteen twenty five, and he does does not
do a great job of it, right, His heart really
isn't in it. And then in May of nineteen twenty six,

(55:09):
without Salazar's help, the Republican government falls to a military
coup by these right wing military officers. Now by this point,
the economy is in the shitter completely, which is a
big part of why the coup succeeds. Like the old
government hadn't been keeping things together and they don't have
much support. The generals who'd overthrown the Republican government know
they can't just sit back and hope for things to

(55:31):
get better. Right, They had like the military might to
take over, but they don't know how to run an economy, right.
They're generals and they're Portuguese general so they barely know
how to run a military, right, And I'm going to.

Speaker 4 (55:42):
Quote what a win?

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Then you know, yeah, it's not hard to take over
from the guys without guns, right, Yea.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
I guess I guess that's right.

Speaker 5 (55:51):
But it's just very funny that they're like, look, they're
bad at pretty much everything.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Yeah, we don't know how to know, yeah, how bad
the previous guys were previous, and so they're going to
be like, we need someone to help us figure out
how to actually fix things. Otherwise we're just going to
get overthrown in short succession. I'm going to quote from
an article in the New York Times by Aldin Whitman. Here,
the victorious generals asked Salazar, then reputed to be an

(56:15):
economic wizard, to take over the Ministry of Finance. He
demanded a free hand to execute his reforms, and this
being refused, he went back to teaching. And this is
what's so interesting to me about Salazar is he's he's
not in a lot of ways like a guy like Hitler,
like a guy like Mussolini. He obviously he's interested in power,
or he wouldn't have gotten into politics at all or
entertained the idea, but it's not his primary motivating force

(56:39):
in life. He actually does have a plan B, and
he would have been somewhat content just continuing to be
an intellectual. So, like, taking power, being a dictator is
an option for him, but it's not his only option,
and it's not the one he's putting most of his
effort and time into.

Speaker 5 (56:53):
Right up in that he's just playing hard to get. Yeah,
he's like buying a car right right, and he's like
this is what I want and like, well, we can't
do that. He's like well, and I'm gonna walk away.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Yeah, that I'll walk away. You can move some numbers
around here.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah, yeah, and that that's kind of what happens here, right,
is that he shows that, like, I'm not obsessed with
taking this position unless I can really get a free
hand in things, and the generals are desperate enough that
like eventually they agree to do that, I'm gonna quit.
You learned this from all the fucking right, Yes, this
is the hard Gues's what taught him how to how
to win the dictatorship of Portugal.

Speaker 5 (57:26):
There it is, you show too much interest, you say,
you write an essay about it, that's not going to
go great.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
You've got to nag the military dictatorship in order to
be appointed the dictator, right, That's how it always works.

Speaker 4 (57:37):
Yeah, i'd you know, I would be your dictator if you,
if you know, wore makeup.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Or somethyeah, if you wore if you dress up a
little bit. Come on, how many medals have you guys
even won here?

Speaker 4 (57:47):
Even shaving our country's legs anymore? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Like, what's going on Portugal military? Yeah, get some better
cannons or something. So I'm going to quote from Whitman's
article again here. Two years later, General Antonio Oscar de
Fragosa Carmona engineered his election as President of Portugal, and
he promptly puts Salazar in charge of the nation's per strings.
By cutting public spending and by judicious taxation, Salazar succeeded

(58:11):
within a year in balancing the budget for the first
time since nineteen ten. Shortly too, he liquidated the foreign
debt and lifted the escudo, the monetary unit, to a
premium on foreign exchanges. Yeah, that's the end of the story.

Speaker 4 (58:24):
He's a great man. He gets his.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Free hand in managing the economy, and he's really good
at it.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
He manages to do what his predecessors could never do.
He balances the budget and he takes the escudo had
been like a laughing stock in European finance for years,
and he restores stability in a way that just hadn't
existed for a long time. His popularity grows and it
becomes very clear to the military that Salazar is indispensable
in politics. Right, like, we have the guns, but we

(58:53):
don't know how to manage an economy. We're certainly not
any better at it than the people that we deposed.

Speaker 4 (58:58):
They have the plans, but we have the power, right, yeah,
you just like yeah, just like in The Simpsons.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
In nineteen thirty two, Salazar becomes the President of the
Council of Ministries, which effectively puts him in charge of
the country. Right, So he's kind of like because he's
so good at this. These generals, all they know how
to do is, you know, control the guys with guns.
But Salazar knows how to make the economy stable, which
allows him to keep the wealthy and the powerful on
his side and keep the people from rioting too much.

(59:26):
And so he just keeps demanding more and more power,
and the military is like, I guess, yeah, you can
have it, right, I guess you can have some more.
I guess you could have some more, yeah, exactly, And
kind of, bit by bit he winds up the absolute
dictator of Portugal, and he's like starts to sideline the
military and kick guys out who are threats to his power.

(59:47):
As he gains more and everyone's too scared of him
because they can't keep the economy going on their own right,
which is such a different way from these other fascists.
He's not brought to power by a populist uprising. He
doesn't like win mass votes in an election. He's not
like Mussolini or like Hitler. He keeps showing results in
the economy and demanding more control in the military. Is like, well,

(01:00:08):
no one else has had to steer this thing, right,
so I guess sure. I found a write up in
the textbook Portuguese Studies by Paul Santos and Luciano de LaRue,
and it describes what happens next. Within four short years,
Salazar had so enhanced his prestige and developed his political
power that he was nominated Prime Minister. The army had
no desire to govern and no plan for government anyway,

(01:00:29):
so they handed power back to civilians, whom they regarded
as trustworthy enough to protect their honor and keep this
position secure. Therefore, while the military had brought Salazar to power,
the regime that he molded, the Estado Novo after the
return to barracks, was very largely civilian. And the Estado
Novo is proclaimed in nineteen thirty three. It means new
state right, so Salazar he's kind of officially in full

(01:00:51):
power in thirty three, the same year that Hitler rises
to power and he says, like we've got a new state, right,
and there's a new deal almost for portis enter government.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
That's where FDR got it. That's where FDR took it from.
You should see FDR.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Yeah, or FDR should Yeah. So sala is Our cribs
a lot from Hitler, and you know, which is part
of why he gets keeps. Yeah, but he just it's
just sort of the aesthetics, right, Like you can see
he sees that like, okay, there's some value in some
of these fascist aesthetics. But that's not how he gains power, right.
He doesn't take power the way that Hitler does. He

(01:01:29):
kind of like almost infects the coup that took power
and then like takes over it. He's like one of
those bugs that gets inside a wasp's brain if the
wasp is the.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
Poetry military like a zombie buger.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Right right, That's how he does it, which is very
different from the other fascists.

Speaker 5 (01:01:43):
It kind of seems like he's just using the Hitler
stuff as like flourishes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Yeah, yeah, like, oh I could dress it up a little.
This is working right now, this is the new hotness. Sure, yeah,
up a little bit. Yeah, let's put it sprinkle a
little bit of Hitler around the edges. Yeah, you're a
little Hitler in there. Yeah, a little bit of Hitler
in there for some spice, just a dash of Hitler. Yeah,
and he uses he's going to he has a secret
police state, as we'll talk about, and he's going to
use force and violence, and he's going to crib from

(01:02:10):
the Nazis very directly in several ways as to how
his secret police works. But he doesn't have a cult
of personality like Hitler does. And he's actually kind of
he has some respect for Hitler in the early period,
but he's also like he's looking at all these weird
esoteric aspects of Hitler's fascism, like his beliefs and race scigens,
and he's like, this guy is just kind of weird.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:02:29):
I'll also add that, like, not calling attention to it
is a pretty good way to have a forty year
reign instead of shoot yourself in a bunker rain right exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Salazar doesn't want to be a shoot himself in the
bunker guy.

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
No, man, he's spoiling the frog in the slow way.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
You know what's interesting about him, and the smartest thing
about him is he understands there's a limit to how
much power you should seek. Salazar is never going to
be a what if I tried to take all of
Europe guy? He's like, I'm content with Portugal, you know,
and all of her African properties, which are much larger
than Portugal, right but as well as we'll talk about
that's a big deal.

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
But he's not.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
He's never going to be a gamble too much to
keep power sort of guy. He's smarter than that. He's
probably the smartest of these kind of right wing dictators
in Europe in this.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
Power that some of those Hitler Germans are going to
be learning Portuguese, if you know what I.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Mean, They sure are. Salazar is a diet in the
wool corporatist. His charter for the Estado Nova, which is
approved by plebiscite in nineteen thirty three, which is ostensibly
a public vote but is not really a free one.
This new state is described in the plebiscite as a
unitary and corporative state. Only one party is allowed in

(01:03:39):
the Assembly, and the premier, who's appointed by the president,
is unaccountable. Salazar is the premier in the early days
as well as the finance minister, and over the years
he's going to serve as foreign Minister and Minister of
War and Minister of the colonies. Kind of whenever he
wants to assert direct control, he'll just have himself made
the minister of that thing. Right, But he's always the dictator, right,

(01:03:59):
He's always kind of the guy where the buck stops.
And one of the first big things he cracks down
on once the Estado Novo is declared the law of
the land is women's rights. Salah's our rights that because
women are so key to the structure of the family,
they shouldn't be voting as a general rule. Now, because
he's this guy, he's got a lot of close female
friends who he takes very seriously. He's not completely against

(01:04:22):
women having the vote, so he's letting he wants rich
women to be able to vote. If you've got university education,
then you can vote as a woman, which you don't
necessarily need as a man, even though nobody's vote really
matters all that much, right, And his argument is that like, yeah,
a few women have the rights to vote, but most
women should be forced to maintain a sort of femininity

(01:04:44):
that he argues as conducive to the Catholic norms of
family life.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
Now this is where he's yeah, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Yeah, he's modern in that way, right, And like all
of these modern guys we have who say the same shit,
he doesn't follow any of these rules in his normal wife.
He never marries, and he never has kids, and he
maintains this carousel of powerful women as lovers and advisers.
He's willing to make exceptions for women that he personally respects,
but he's not willing to live like the idolized Portuguese citizen,

(01:05:15):
nor does he want to have a family of his own.

Speaker 4 (01:05:17):
Catherine the great energy coming off of him, very much so, right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Per an article on Portugal dot com, financial abuse against
women was institutionalized. The law allowed husbands to prohibit wives
from working outside the home. Women were not allowed to
access certain professions diplomacy, the military, etc. And certain professions
like nursing had limited rights, such as the right to marry.
A wife needed the consent of her husband to travel
to another country. Contraceptives were only allowed for health reasons,

(01:05:44):
and even so the husband would need to give consent.
Abortion was illegal in all cases, with a prison sentence
of up to eight years, and so he cracks down
on women's rights, and alongside this comes to crackdown in
the right to dissent in any way that might force
a change in the Estado Novo. Salazar never tries. This
is not a totalitarian state in the same way that

(01:06:04):
is attempted in like Germany. But this is very likely.
The fact that he's not trying for complete control is
not that he doesn't want it or is a better guy.
It's that he's smarter. He knows that, like, you know,
if you grasp too tightly, shit slides through your fingers.

Speaker 4 (01:06:19):
Right. You know, we all know our Star Wars, Right,
we all know Prince Organa talking to ramof Tarkin on the.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Yeah Star and he's like, yeah, there's that's not really
worth investing in. Right, There's an amount of force that
is worthwhile to deploy against the people to stop things
from getting too far along. But there's an amount of
force that is going to like be dangerous to me
and will drive up like support for any kind of
like rebellious movement, and I'm not going to play into that.

(01:06:47):
So the new constitution makes place for a new secret
police force, the PVDE, which in English stands for the
State Surveillance and Defense Police, and the PVDE is going
to go under a couple of different names over the
course of the Estado Novo. We're going to call them
the PVDE right now for the sake of going forward,
and to be fair. He didn't start Portugal having a

(01:07:09):
secret police This is always the case with these things.
This starts in the Republic. The Republic began having a
secret police force, and under the Republic, this secret police
force starts maintaining a prison called the al Ube in Lisbon.
I'm going to quote from an article in the newspaper
Portugal Resident here. The building is close to the cathedral
in the center of Lisbon and has a long history
of imprisonment, firstly until eighteen twenty for those condemned by

(01:07:31):
the ecclesiastical courts, and for the next hundred years for
women convicted of common crimes. The word alube comes from
the Arabic and means either a well or cistern, and
by extension a dungeon. So starting in nineteen twenty eight,
the military dictatorship began building a network of informants through
the PBDE and started the practice of sending them to
al ude to be tortured. Salazar turns up to speed

(01:07:53):
on this process, and under his new state, creative new
torture methods are introduced.

Speaker 4 (01:07:57):
Hell man, it's called innovation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
It's called innovate. We're gonna beat people and we're gonna
sleep deprive them. But we're also going to introduce something
new called the statue, which is where a prisoner is
forced to stand with his arms extended without moving for
hours or even days at a time.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
And if you wait for.

Speaker 5 (01:08:13):
Better tell you though, that's really great for your shoulders.
Oh yeah, incredible shoulder extras. What you're doing is instead
of building bulk, you're actually building a more tight, striated muscle.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
It's really really good if you're like a fighter.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Now, the downside of this is you get beaten senseless
by the guards if you move your arms at all,
which is not so good for building up good straight coaching.

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
Okay, it's called coaching.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
It's called coaching, trying to make you stronger. I'm like,
that's not to me that I'm like, yeah, that sounds
a pretty standard dah.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
That's what brings the regime down is they make too
many great boxers.

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
Yeah, too many powerful tight course.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Yeah, so the name of the game in this new
state is maintaining a sense of quiet, respectability, and not
freaking out the regular citizenry too much. Right, this is
while torturing anyone who's like too much of a communist
or a Republican activist, so that you're still kind of
it's not an accountability would be the wrong term. But
Salazar is scared of being too publicly brutal, and in fact,

(01:09:10):
once the neighborhood complains about the constant screaming coming from
the Alude prison, the PVDE moves their torture operations to
a more secluded environment. So there's like a we're not
going to be better, but we will be quieter because again,
we don't want to we don't want to be too
over the line here, otherwise that's going to like spark
the kind of rebellion we don't want to deal with.

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
I like that. It's just like a noise complaint.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Yeah, it's like a noise complaint. You gotta be quieter
with the torture guys, and you keep the suffering down
a little bit. Yeah, you're freaking out the neighbors, and
some of them have real money, like they're taxpayers, right,
we don't want to make them uncomfortable. So the new
state has begun at this point by like the mid thirties,
and for the next four decades, Antonio Salazar will rule

(01:09:53):
Portugal with an iron fist, and we'll talk about what
he does in power in part two. But first, Jeff,
we're going to talk ab about where the audience can
find you on the internet. Oh God, that's where I live,
that's where you do, That's where we all live.

Speaker 5 (01:10:07):
I do a lot of stuff and it's really fun
and it's all very different, So you're welcome to check
out any or all of these things. First and foremost,
I have a show called Jeff Has Cool Friends, where
I interview just people that I think are in my
life that I find very interesting. Sometimes they are famous celebrities,
and sometimes there are people that went to high school with.
But I just it's really fun. It's a really fun

(01:10:28):
way to sort of learn more about people and.

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):
Stuff like that. I do that show.

Speaker 5 (01:10:32):
I also do a show called Nerd on that same
network as well, the Jeff Has Cool Friends sort of brand.
That's with my friend Dre Alvarez, and I also do
a monthly show called the Monthly Flow with Andrea Gazette.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
You can get those.

Speaker 5 (01:10:44):
All early uncensored bonus stuff at Patreon, dot com, slash
Jeff May you can get nerd and Jeff has cool Friends.

Speaker 4 (01:10:51):
For free everywhere else later.

Speaker 5 (01:10:53):
Yeah, I do Tom and Jeff watch Batman with our
friend Tom Ryman on Gamefully Unemployed. I do lots of
great shows with Adam Todd Brown on that you don't
even like podcast network. I also open cards on camera
and I send them to people on the at Jeff
has Cool Cards Network and you can actually get cards
in the mail like a care package from me over

(01:11:14):
on the Patreon. So lots of really cool stuff and
you can find me at Hey there jeffro two on
Instagram because they booted my last one because they accused
me of selling sex, which I did not do.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
No, I do not have the confidence to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Yeah, unlike Antonio salasar Oh, he didn't have to sell it.
Yeah no, he was giving that shit away.

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
And if if you're in Burbank or the southern California area,
I do a great comedy show the second Friday of
every month at Last from the Past on Magnolia and
it is called Mint on card. It's a comedy in
a toy store.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Comedy in a toy store. Well, everybody check out Jeff,
find him on the old Internet, and find us on Thursday,
which is like two days from now, talking about the
rest of Antonio Salazar's life.

Speaker 4 (01:11:59):
All right, that's it fine see.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia
dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the
Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday
and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

(01:12:26):
at Behind the Bastards