Part One: The Cash for Kids Scandal

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's sad my all of you are about to be
I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards podcast, Bad
People tell you all about him. My guest today, Mr
Jason Petty, a k A prop man. Drop the government
name and let me go. I'm mile here. That's how

(00:23):
much I care about you. There are two people in
the world that call me Jason. It's my wife and
a lady named Jen hat Maker. They're only two people
on earth that called me Jason. Robert and now Rob Jason.
We can bleep your your legal name's all good. That
worry about ice CAD, all that stuff has been expunged.
Those those are mine. I was a miner. So you

(00:46):
can't talk about the Oh that is appropriate for today's topic,
because today we're talking about a couple of aspects of
the juvenile justice system that I think we're all gonna
find fun. Oh no, real, real good time. I don't
need okay, go ahead, no, no, no, I mean, how
do you how do you feel about kids? You know, well,

(01:09):
I love kids. I got two of them. I love
the juvenile system. I've been a part of it. Um, Okay,
it works pretty well. Yes. So so there's a number
of connections with this. My father was an s d
p O two for California, which is a deputy probation

(01:30):
officer for the juvenile system in Los Angeles. He retired
from it, you know, because it's like, like we said before,
can't change system from withinside. It just doesn't work. So
like so he kind of bailed out, but he at
least was like, at least I could be an advocate
for for the time that I'm there and when. Some

(01:51):
of y'all may know that I used to I was
a teacher before I was doing music and poetry full time,
and I started off at My first teaching job was
as central what was a substitute position, but it was
with all of the juvenile halls in California, so East
like Correctional Facility Camp, Rocky Camp, half a Ball. So
my first teaching experience was all in the juvenile juvenile systems.

(02:16):
So like, I'm very connected to the store you're about
to talk right now, and again I was in the system. Yeah,
And it's there's an anthropological theory I'm kind of fond of,
which is the the idea that like essentially all civilization
and by that I don't mean necessarily like skyscrapers and
electric lights, which is the idea of like human beings
organizing in groups to do things started because of the

(02:39):
need to raise kids, because like it is evolutionarily advantageous
to have a big brain that allows you to make tools. Um,
but at a certain point, our brain's got so big
that you can't put you can't like just come out
with a brain that big, we're gonna kill the person
giving birth to you, right, Like, you can only give
birth to a brain so big. So we we start

(03:00):
and our kids started coming out younger and younger and
less and less capable of doing anything right, Like you
you're if you're there, like the birthing of like a
calf or a baby, their fine or like a dog.
Yeah they could just like they're up and they're doing
three minutes. Yeah, yeah, pretty fucking quick in most cases.
And like by the time a human baby have like
a puppy and a baby at the same time, by

(03:21):
the time that human baby can like kind of wattle,
that dog will more or less be able to like
hunt the dogs find yes, yeah, the dogs ready for
the world. There's a whole premise in in my My
My book Terra form where I talk about the development
of culture, and it's because we're the only species that
aren't born with everything we need to survive. We had

(03:44):
to create language, we had to create you know, covers
and stuff like exactly what that thing is. And one
of the only things you, like you write in my
z own right now, one of the only things that
is universal in human civilization across every country and time,
was the idea of protecting our children, that human thing

(04:08):
in the world. Like, I don't have kids, I don't
ever want to have kids, but I still think I'm
just kidding, Like it's every adult's fucking responsibility if there's
if you can protect a child, to protect the child,
like period period like, and that's why the people were
talking about today are such fucking nightmares. They are human
humans who have like fundamentally decided. But what if we

(04:29):
did the opposite bro for like money, racism and to
get elected. I wish I could see on face right now, because,
like I said, we got two different stories this week.
For our first story today, proply what have you heard
about the kids for cash scandal? I was also a
high school teacher, so yes, I've heard of this. Yeah,

(04:51):
it's not great, so too. Before we get into this,
I think we need to talk a little bit about, um,
some relevant background. So, violent crime in the United States
almost quadrupled between nineteen sixty and nine by serious crimes,
including including homicide. We're all falling, so crime is by

(05:11):
starting to drop again. Um but right at around the
time crime was beginning its fall. That continued up until
fairly recently, uh, twenty four hour news in the Internet
really started to get going, and stories about violent crime
and crimes directed against particularly white suburban people were hugely popular.
You can make a lot of money in the new
you know, right, yeah, and crimes committed by teenagers against

(05:36):
particularly that demographic or like the easiest way to get
fucking eyeballs on screen. Yes, I know. Yeah. I am
a child of war on drugs, gang in junctions. I
am a child of all this. Y yeah. Now. The
problem was discussed through obviously, uh, the news and and

(05:58):
and fictional media. It was also something that academics talked about.
In November of nineteen, a political scientist named John delu
Leo Jr. Wrote an article for The Weekly Standard, which
is a right wing opinion magazine, titled The Coming of
the Super predators. This art was based. Yeah, this person

(06:21):
ruined my childhood. Yeah, ruin because of the work he's
about to talk about. Go ahead, Yeah, he he dropped
a bomb on I don't know, a few million kids
childhoods conservatively. Um. The article that he wrote was based
primarily on data from boys in Philadelphia that showed that
six percent of of young like of minor male male

(06:44):
miners in Philadelphia accounted for more than half of the
serious crimes committed by male children in that city. UM. Now,
as you might have guessed number one, there's a number
of reasons for this. This is just Philadelphia. There's a
lot going on here. It's maybe not the best thing
to draw broad sweeping societal conclusions from, especially in a vacuum. Um. And,
as you probably won't be surprised to hear, the article
that Delileo wrote was filled with very uncomfortable race related

(07:08):
lines like this paragraph. While the trouble will be greatest
in black inner city neighborhoods, other places are also certain
to have burgeoning youth crime problems that will spill over
into upscale central city districts, entering suburbs, and even the
rural heartland. To underscore, this point. Abraham Recount was one
of the people who's talking to. Recounted a recent town

(07:28):
hall meeting in a white working class section of the
city that has fallen on hard times. They were coming
afraid of their own children. There were some big beefy
guys there too, and they're asking me what am I
going to do to control their children. There's a lot
going there, including the idea that like, well, crime in
the inner city is obviously going to happen. It's a
problem because it might spill over into upscale areas and
in the suburbs. Right like that, there's so much happening here.

(07:51):
I'm trying to like because I'm so like even the
time frame, like like I I'm revella my age here,
but I'm at high school when this is happening. So
like I am who he's talking about, you know, inner
city black male, you know what I'm saying. So I'm
like and just little that stuff would drop and it's

(08:12):
like you see people like I'm walking home from school,
then my pe clothes no less, you know, because I
got I got shipped out to a suburbian high school,
you know, so like it wasn't my I was long
story short joint custody, YadA YadA. Right, So I went
to the nicer high school. So walking home, I'm just

(08:33):
like stupid headphones on, listening to Wu Tang and like
watching the lady Clutcher person cross the street and just
about like you're nervous about situ And I'm like, dude, like,
I'm you see my nerd assmpe clothes with my bow
straps on my backpack, Like I'm really up. You're telling
me I'm a problem. And the reason why I'm a

(08:54):
problem is because this is the source material that us
moving into your city, into this part of town is
going to bring the problems that you're talking about in
this thing. Absolutely, yeah, that's that's exactly, and that that
kind of fear, that's that specific population sphere is what
he's stoking with this. And obviously the bulk of this article,
there's that little study from Philadelphia that's um that that

(09:16):
is kind of the statistical nut for for what he's
writing here. Um, But most of it's based on interviews
with police officers and other individuals with a very obvious bias.
One district attorney is cited in the article is saying
about children they kill her maim on impulse without any
intelligible motive, and a police officer is quoted as saying,

(09:36):
I never used to be scared. Now I say a
quick hail Mary. Every time I get a call at
night involving juveniles, I pray I go home in one
piece to my own kids. See this book. It's like
all these times that we say, like like fast forward
to Tamir Rice and you're treating this fourteen year old
like a goddamn adult. It's this ship. It's like, like

(09:58):
we not just keep like we're kids kids like everybody else.
I'm sorry, I'm so triggered right now. This Yeah, it's
it's it's it's not going to get less frustrated. So
in the article, these quotes are followed by quotes from
a group of what who Delulio describes as life term
inmates in a prison uh in New Jersey. UM And

(10:21):
Delulo makes sure we know of these inmates that quote.
Many of them are black males from inner city Newark
and Camden. Uh. And these guys he quotes, is being
terrified of today's super predator children too. So he's being like, look,
even these black criminals in prison are scared of kids
these days, like it's it's really a pretty horrific article. Um. Now,
according to Wikipedia, Delulio is a Democrat today. I don't

(10:44):
know if that's true. I don't know much about his
present life. It is important we be clear that he
was wrong about everything predicted in this article. His big
prediction is that because of these super predators, juvenile crime
would triple by two thousand ten. But of course, by
the time he wrote this article, juvenile crime had already
been dropping for a couple of years, and by two
thousand eleven, juvenile homicides had plunged by two thirds. So

(11:09):
he's literally the opposite of what he says happens pretty much. Um,
and despite the fact that he was perfectly wrong about
what's pretty much the only noteworthy claim he makes in
his career, delu Leo received two awards in two thousand
and ten for Excellence and Academics. Of course, again, it
doesn't matter. What matters that you gave people an excuse
to be scared and do violence. Um, that's all you

(11:32):
gotta do. Yeah, what's what's interesting about this moment is
around I'm a really show you all some some Mike.
Actual politics was like around the end of the nineties,
there was a call that came from really from jail

(11:54):
that was like, you gotta stop doing drive bys. And
it was basic because it was like listen to it's
just it's just not g like, this is not We're
not spending our lifetime in prison for y'all to just
drive by somewhere and shoot them. So so even like
even the violent crime kind of slowing down, that was

(12:15):
like we did that for ourselves, you know, saying like
like it wasn't and granted obviously like the War on
Jugs and the Gang of Junctions and Rico and all
this different stuff, and the gang uptick, Like obviously, like
of course you're gonna drop. You're gonna drop crime if
gentrification starts other stuff that the economy is expanding huge

(12:35):
gets created. I'm like, we got jobs number one. I'm like, well,
we're adults now we have jobs, and there's other things
to do happening around. Yeah, you start to see the
impact of the fact that they got lit out of
fucking gasoline, you know, stating in like what the seventies
of the eighties, so like a bunch of ship happens,
that's why crime drops by so much. Total it's important

(12:58):
is that doulu Leo is again perfectly wrong. Absolute. Yeah. Now,
the despite this fact, his work had a huge influence
on how juvenile crime was perceived, and it led to
a massive change nationwide and how often children were tried
and sentenced as adults. I want to quote now from
an article in NBC News about this period because it
makes a good point about some broader trends that Delulo's

(13:20):
work fed into. So he's not obviously the beginning of
this quote. Just a few years before, the news media
had introduced the terms wilding and wolfpack to the national
vocabulary to describe five teenagers, four black and one Hispanic,
who were convicted and later exonerated, of the rape of
a woman in New York Central Park. That's this kind
of animal savagery was already in the conversation, said Kim

(13:42):
Taylor Thompson, a law professor at New York University. The
super predator language began a process of allowing us to
suspend our feelings of empathy towards young people of color.
And again, I might I might quible about it that
this began the processes a moment. Yeah, yeah, one of
started it escalates. I think it's fair to say that

(14:02):
it does escalate absolutely, and and and more to the point,
it leads to kind of some structural things that that
that escalate. How this is actually like built into the
legal system. Um, now, it's probably worth noting before we
move on that delu Leo's mentor was a political scientist
named James Q. Wilson. Now. Mr Wilson got famous for
writing a nineteen five book with the title Crime and

(14:24):
Human Nature, which argued that criminality was caused by specific
genetic factors. You will not again. Yeah, he also got
famous for chasing around Dennis the Menace, Mr Wilson because
this is that, Mr. Yes. Anyway, go on, Um, he

(14:44):
spends a lot of his book writing paragraphs like this.
A central problem, perhaps the central problem and improving the
relationship between white and black Americans, is the difference in
racial crime rates. No matter how whit a center guilty
a stranger, maybe he carries with him in public the
burdens or benefits of his group identity. Now you know, yeah, yeah,

(15:05):
the fact that like, yes, people carry with them like
the benefits of how their group, the group that they
visually at least belonged to his person by society. Sure, um,
but it's yeah, there's a lot of kind of eugenic
c e ship in this book where he's sort of
talking about like certain populations are more prone for crime,
and it definitely definitely ignores a lot of important things

(15:26):
like how economics feed into it and how certain historical trends.
There's obviously he's he's he's piece of shit. Um. And
it's not surprising that racists said racist ship. What is
surprising is that both of these guys, these very right wing,
very kind of white supremacist e thinkers, are backed not
just by conservatives but by supposedly liberal colleges. And what

(15:46):
they wrote was uncritically disseminated by large chunks of the
mainstream media. And here's NBC again. The Marshall Projects review
of forty major news outlets in the five years after
his Weekly Standard article shows the new legis neilogism hopping
up nearly three hundred times, and that is an undercount.
There was the Philadelphia Inquirers Fawnding magazine profile of Delu Leo,

(16:06):
who grew up there. Until recently, Pennsylvania had the country's
largest population of people still serving life sentences without parole
for crimes they committed as children. There was also a lengthy,
mostly gentle New Yorker profile, a spot on the New
York Times is op ed page, and an appearance on
CBS Evening News. The media exposure led to conference invitations,
which led to more media exposure. The words super predator

(16:28):
became so much a part of the national vocabulary that
journalists and talk show hosts used it without reference to
de Lulo, including even Oprah Winfrey in a segment on
Good Morning America. So this is one of those things
that is just such a successful piece of fucking culture
jambing Clinton, Yeah, Clinton to Everyone uses it, and most
people don't even recognize know anything about de lu Leo,

(16:50):
know anything about Wilson, know anything about like where this
comes from. They just kind of take it as scientific fact. Almost.
That moment, even with with Oprah, is like stellar reputation
with black people. That moment, like we never forgot that.
Yeah you know what I'm saying. And I was like, yo, really,
like you really don't let this man talk talk about

(17:11):
us like this. Yeah, And it's perfect what he's saying.
It's really perfectly framed for shows like Oprah was doing
for like daytime TV rights, the kind of thing that
people who are like in the middle of their day
will will stop to hear about because you're you're tickling
that amygdala, you're making the like for one thing, adults
are always a little not always, but it is very

(17:32):
common for adults to be kind of uncomfortable around teenagers.
They're weird. They like things you don't understand. Yeah you
forgot what it was like, Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh and
if you can again, there's a shipload of money to
be made and tapping into the fact that a lot
of adults are just kind of uncomfortable around teams and
two our to our I mean I taught freshman, so

(17:52):
I was around teens all the time. But in adults defense,
teams are weird. Oh yeah, I one in my and
without a taser for sure. I got one in my house,
and I'll be like, I love you, you you are you
are you are my child. I am raising you. That's
weird because like, oh yeah, yeah, like are sorts of

(18:14):
all sorts of music that that I just think, finally, people,
finally music is wrong. It took a long time. It
took when before me who said that music was wrong
was wrong. But now it's wrong. Now that's wrong. Now,
now it's wrong. Now I am. I am happy to
report that my child is oh so when it comes
to music, and like, we actually like a lot of
the same stuff except for her B two BTS obsession.

(18:36):
But besides that, we're like, we're pretty much on the
same page. But that's an exception. Her father's a rapper,
so of course she's gonna know a little bit more
about music. Yeah, it's uh anyway, so um. The fear
dreamed up or drummed up by these nonsense theories and
the media recitations of them, led to a surge in

(18:57):
zero tolerance, in zero tolerance rules for in school, and
a lot of horrible ship we covered in an episode
we did titled the War on Children. If you want
more of an idea of how politicians grabbed onto all
of this, I should read a quote from Senator or
in Hatch in n We've got to quit cuddling these
violent kids. Like nothing that's going on. Getting some of
these do good or liberals to do what's right is

(19:18):
real tough. We'd all like to rehabilitate these kids, but
by gosh, we are in a different age, right, or
in Hatch everybody or Hatch everybody the man who made
sure that you can sell supplements filled with lead to
people and there's no regulations on it. Good man, that's
our guy we love, or in hatch um. So today, however,

(19:38):
we're not. This is just a leaded because the thing
that we are talking is one of the worst crimes.
All this rhetoric and racism directly enabled. This is a
story of greed that begat violence on an almost industrial scale,
the Cash for Kids scandal. Now are two main bastards
for today are a pair of former judges, Mark Ciavarella
uh and Michael Conna hand YEA sie Evarella is how

(20:01):
it's pronounced, more or less now. Mark A. Siavarella was
born on March third, nineteen fifty in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania.
He was raised on the east end of the city,
and he went to a Catholic high school. Here's how
the New York Times described his upbringing, quote a stellar
athlete and student. Judge Siavarella was the son of a
brewery worker and a phone company operator nicknamed Scooch. Like

(20:23):
his father, he drove a beat up both swagen Beetle
for years, and even after moving away, he visited his
aging mother daily until she died in two thousand seven.
The boy's name was Scooch, Scooch, Scooch, and Scooch grows up.
You know, to his credit, he's working class, like a
lot of most people become judges, not don't come from
like scooch bro. Like you know you, Scooch, Yeah, like

(20:48):
you one of the guys, Bro. They don't. They don't
call rich kids scooch. Nobody, nobody ever went to a
British boarding school and got called scoop bro, Scooch man,
you and scooch yall cut school, went the cornered liquor store,
stole a beer and like hung out and smoked your
granddad's cigarettes, like Scooch stole a lot of cigarettes. I'm

(21:10):
gonna say thirteen at least. Yeah. So after law school
he went to Duquesne University in Pittsburgh. I think that's
how it pronounced. Uh. Mark Siavarella ran for a seat
in the country's Court of Common Pleas in August of
nineteen now as a judge. Because he wins, he becomes
known for the fact that he is a harsh sentence

(21:31):
er um and also kind of like he he likes
to be kind of the judge judy dude. He likes
to have these like quips and ship and I want
to play an ad from his nineteen campaign to make
it clear how inside of the super predator zeitgeist this
dude was. I hate this guy already. Yeah, he's not
great and convicted of hurder right or violent primes against

(21:51):
our children or the elderly. You're gonna expect that I
will have closed the maximum sentence allowed by law. Now,
you can't do that. No, legally, No, you can't run
to be a judge. There's a thing called the Judicial
Code of Conduct, dude. One of the things that says
is that if you're running to be a judge, you
can't make pledges or promises to voters about your rulings

(22:13):
other than that they'll be faithful and impartial because you're
a judge. Let me, okay, can I can I put
my teacher hat on right now? Okay? Listen, civics lesson.
You got your three branches of government right, and two
of the three branches are elected officials. The reason why
you don't elect quote unquote judges are because they are

(22:37):
supposed to be above the fray. You're supposed to not
be able to because of popularity, what's going on in
the world. You're supposed to not be They are supposed
to be above that because they are adjudicating the rights
and privileges of everybody around us. So you're not supposed

(22:58):
to do that. You even running an ad is already like, fam,
what did you You can't like? This is not then
you got to law school? G Like, you're not allowed.
I'm so frustrating right now. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, it
is frustrating. Yeah, but you know what's not frustrating the
products and services that support this podcast because they very

(23:18):
few of whom are running for judge ships. Although never
actually some did you just say that the products and
services aren't frustrating? None of them, not a single one.
I don't know, man, Some of those dudes be seeping in.
I don't know what our filters be doing, you know
what I'm saying. But I will say it's a lot
of y'all because y'all be showing up. Boy. Yeah, yeah,
what what should be the Washington State Highway Patrol again?

(23:41):
How did that happen? How did that happen? It's weird
too that they would, like us, who becomes a cop
in Washington because of a podcast? At It's like when
Coke Industries was like who the fuck? Like what what
motherfucker listens to a podcast and goes, well, that's where
I'm giving my oil refining business. Is our demographic? Who

(24:02):
do we want to move to? Ohio? Yeah, it's very
funny people that. Yeah, so here's some ads. Ah, we're back.
So one of Judge Ciavarella's opponents in that election, Thomas Commetta,

(24:23):
later like he brings up that, like this ad is
a breach of judicial ethics. Um, and Committa says pretty sensibly,
how can you trust someone who runs for judge and
breaks the law as a candidate to like follow the
law while they're a judge? Right exactly now? Our boy
responds that it's fine because all of the keywords in

(24:46):
his ad were quote allowed by law, which is a
very funny response to that. This guys, Yeah, oh my god,
I hate this guy. You ruined my childhood. I'm telling
whoever that is he ruined much out it. Yeah, I'm
not even boy here. The real king of ruining childhoods

(25:07):
this day, So Judge sie Verrella, however it's pronounced. I'm
hearing some weird things in the Italian site that I
just checked into double check this and I forgot. But people,
here's a lot of names in this show, a lot
of names. I even watched the documentary about this. I forget.
I'm bad at it, Like you could deal with it.
Go listen to fucking I don't know what's another podcast

(25:28):
that is good at names. None of them are because
they're at some sort of NPR name, Mr don't listen
to NPR. They do this ship they're good at that.
The thing is, so, the thing is he put a
lot of innocent people intoil. Already know that he does.
Oh that's yeah, that already yes. So, uh, that's Judge
Sieverella's background, right, that's the kind of man he is.

(25:50):
And we'll returned to him in a minute because he's
our main character today. But we should talk about a
friend of his, judge Michael Conahan, who's another part of
this story. Hand Conahan. Yeah, Now, where Chivarella was a
working class kid who clawed his way into the upper crust,
Michael was born sipping mint julips at the country club.
That may be a slight exaggeration, but his dad was

(26:10):
town mayor for twelve years. He is, you know, like
he's he's he's the mayor's son. Yeah, I hate this guy. Now.
His dad also owned a funeral home and was a
heinously abusive prick. While Conahan was begging for clemency spoilers
years later, his lawyer said, quote, he comes from a
family with a patriarch who drove his children to success

(26:30):
and used money as a barometer of that success. He
was taught the ends justified the means. Wait, did you
say he was begging for clemency. Yeah, this is when
he's being tried for the stuff that he does. So
take this with a grain of salt, right. Um, Yeah,
but here's the Times Tribune trying like reporting on what
he claimed about his upbringing. Later, Mr Conahan was beaten

(26:53):
mercilessly by his father when he was a teenager for
simply forgetting to stoke the family furnace at the funeral home.
His eildhood left him with deep insecurities and inadequacies that
he repressed with alcohol. So he's he definitely I think
has a drinking problem. Um, we'll talk about how much
we believe any of that or how much we believe
it even if does he says later, see, that's the

(27:15):
that's the stuff that I'd be like, listen, man, you
just you just can't trust white people because I'd be like,
what that should do was build empathy that you went
through that you should be like, you know what, I'm
gonna be much more gracious to a lot of people.
These people come from struggle. It's been hard. Hell, I
was beat for doing things that wouldn't have I understand

(27:36):
that you may make some bad decisions in your life.
It's all good man, I'm gonna give you a second chance.
But no, you decided to become na bro. Nah yeah yeah, yeah.
I mean it's one of those like I know a
lot of people who got smacked around his kids. Most
people I know did not do the things that this
guy later don't even I was like, you don't even
need to finish. I've been smacked around, Joe. I got

(27:58):
I got spanked in my public school, dude. Yeah. Um. Now,
while Conahan was still a child, there was an incident
in his father's political career that what if His sisters
would later note as relevant their dad awarded a business
contract to a good friend, which led to charges that
he'd committed an ethics violation. Quote the elder Mr Conahan

(28:21):
couldn't understand why people considered it an ethical violation because
he was awarding a contract to a friend because he
thought that friend's work would benefit the community. She said.
Their father never understood this. He couldn't see what the
problem was. So in these two guys prop, you've got
one working class kid with a chip on his shoulder
who's willing to violate ethical guidelines to threaten children in

(28:42):
order to get elected by hitching his start to a
racist criminal justice trend. And then you've got the insecure
and possibly traumatized rich kids son of a politician raised
to believe that blatant crony ism and corruption is fine
if your goals are noble. Right. So these are our
main characters. To Bombo, real Combo, I appreciate you having

(29:03):
me on this because I would have had thoughts had
happen listening to this show, I'd be like, I got thoughts.
So I'm very glad to be on this. Yeah. Oh boy.
So Judge Sea Rolla was on the County Court of
Common Pleas and Judge Conahan was the president judge, which

(29:24):
gave him power of the purse. He gets to decide
spending for a lot of the local justice system, right
like he's a big part. He has a lot of
power deciding where the money goes in terms of like
incarceration and stuff for the county. The New York Times
lays out what happens next quote It all started in
June of two thousand with a simple business proposition. According
to the judge's indictment and more than forty interviews with

(29:45):
courtroom workers, authorities, and others, Robert J. Powell, a wealthy
personal injury lawyer from Hazelton, Pennsylvania and longtime friend of
Judge Conahan, wanted to know how he might get a
contract to build a private detention center. Judge sever La
thought he could help. The two men agreed to meet, and,
according to prosecutors, somewhere in that conversation, a plan was

(30:06):
hatched that courthouse workers and county officials would later describe
as a freight train without breaks. First, Judge Sieverrella put
Mr Powell in touch with a developer who also happened
to be an old friend, Robert K. Miracle, to start
work on finding a site. Then, in January two thousand two,
the month Judge Conahan became President Judge, giving him control

(30:26):
of the courthouse budget, he signed a secret deal with
Mr Powell, agreeing that the court would pay one point
three million in annual rent on top of tens of
millions of dollars that the county and state would pay
the house to delinquent juveniles. And by the end of
that year, Judge Conahan had gotten rid of the competition
by eliminating financing for the County Detention Center. So they
make a deal with these people making a child prison,

(30:48):
and then they closed the County child prison and agree
not just to send kids there and give them the
money that comes from sending kids there, but to give
them a special one point three million dollar a year
deal on top of all that money. Right, already pretty
fucked up. It's already all bad, dude, like in in
every well, okay, let me not say every in California. Um.

(31:13):
When I was teaching, the idea, the theory was it
takes about three thousand dollars a day to educate a child.
So when you got into school, took role and you
clicked Evans here click the school got three thousand dollars. Right,

(31:35):
So this is why role was so important, and when
you ditched, why it was so important, why you had
truancy offers, officers, why the police pulled up if you
wasn't at school, Because it's like, I make three grand
every time you hear and every time you're not here
with some sort of unexcused absence, I'm losing three thousand

(31:57):
dollars per student. So I am incentivized just to make
sure you're in a seat. I really don't care whether
you learn anything or not. I just need to know
you in the seat. So when you add that to prisons,
it's the same thing. How much does it cost to
prison a kid, to you know, in prison a kid?
Three thou dollars, five thousand dollars. You mean to tell

(32:17):
me I can make how much? How much can I
make presents? Okay, dope, Well then check this out. Here's
the situation. How about I feed you stuff and you
just throw me money back. God, it's fuck up, I mean,
and it is. It is like it's a little more
understandable in schools just because like, yes, school has fixed costs,
budgets are usually tight and like that's a problem. It

(32:38):
is a problem with what's happening here. They had a
place to put these kids, purely about allowing a couple
of dudes to profit, to profit off of incarcerating children.
And this was a really obvious scheme too. Many of
their colleagues saw what was going on, at least the
surface parts of it, and complained. Judge Chester or Rowski

(33:00):
sent a letter to the county commissioners complaining about the
increase in detention costs. He was transferred by Conahan to
another court a couple of days later, because again Conahan's
the president judge. So this other judge complains and he's like, yeah,
you're you got a different job now, man. Uh Morowski
later told interviewers, quote, they were unstoppable. I knew something
was wrong, but they silenced all dissent. And again he

(33:22):
doesn't know everything that that we uh would know later.
He just knows that like something shady is going on
and complains about like the detention center. Um, so there's
a lawsuit over this. The county controller, Steve Flood, leaked
a state audit which showed that the state had analyzed
the deal to lease the center as a bad one.
So Steve Flood leaks that like, hey, the States said that,

(33:46):
like there's no good reason to do this. This is
just like seems to kind of be a grift. Now.
The child prison in question, which was named p A Childcare,
then sued Mr Flood for releasing trade secrets, while Judge
Conahan sealed the lawsuit to stop any of the leaked
documents from getting out to the public. One court worker
later told The Times, everyone began to assume that the

(34:07):
judges had some vested interest in the private center because
they were pushing it so doggedly. And they did, of
course they did. I was like, please get today, Like,
of course they did. Why kids getting maximum sentences? We
teenagers getting maximum sentences anyway, going oh boy, it's it's
probly you already know how bad this is. But also

(34:31):
it's gonna be worse in some ways than I think
you might be. Ready. You probably are because I only
know my own experience. I only know California. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, I'll be interested to see if you're surprised
by some of the things these kids go away for,
because I don't know like you. I mean, they're like, okay,
before you tell me the story I would tell you
the story of a friend of mine who he was

(34:52):
an upperclassman. Um was in I'll tell you two stories.
One he was in the backseat. Basketball player in the
back seat, asked for a ride home. You know your kids.
You know some kids got a car, Like everybody have
a car. His kids got a car. It's like, hey,
can I get a ride home. It's like, yeah, I
get it right home. We're gonna make a stop right quick.
So the dudes up front in the front made a

(35:13):
stop right quick, broke into somebody's house, robbed some stuff
getting there. He's in the back seat, sleep right. The
kids tell even on the scant the kids were like, yo,
he really had nothing to do with it. We was
just giving the ride home. He's not really involved in all.
That kid did five years and they told him. They

(35:34):
told the judge, dude, we were just giving him a
ride home. Like he had nothing to do with it.
Still went to prison. Right. I have another friend who's
uh uncle was hiding a syringe from his mom or
my friends grandma because that was his uncle, right. So
he was like, so it says to my friend's mom.

(35:55):
So he's like, it was a syringe in his backpack
had no idea. You have this thing that was called
the gang injunctions in Los Angeles, which was like if
you were if you were in more than if you
were in a group of two or three more people,
it's considered a gang. Right. So standard you're walking home
from school with two of your friends, you're in a gang. Right.
So the fool pulls them over, searches the backpack. You

(36:17):
gotta crack syringe. Right. The judge listen on Mama's Robert
the judge was like, this kid has no criminal record.
I truly believe his story, but the law says I
have a mandatory minimum of five years. This kid did
five years for his uncle. Syringe came out of criminal

(36:40):
guy came out of prison a criminal. Like he was like, yeah,
now he's a criminal because like you just you just
made you just threw him to the wolf. And there's
a lot of documentation of that. Like that's what happens
when you send kids these facilities. Um, all right, so
well I will I will tell you some of the
things these kids went away for, um and we'll we'll
see how you feel about that. But Jesus Christ, um, Okay,

(37:04):
So Paul the guy who is the realists or the
lawyer who like helps start talking about this deal would
later claim in court that after they get this thing
under way, the two judges extorted him for bribes, and
they basically said, we won't send more kids to your facility,
and it will go out of business right if you don't,
if you don't pay us directly. I think that's a lie.

(37:25):
Obviously they got paid. I think he's lying about them
extorting him. I I suspect this was the plan from
the beginning, right. Um. There's a number of reasons this
is unlikely. One thing is that, as the Times Tribune reports,
which is a local paper, there were plenty of other
kids from Pennsylvania to go to the to the go
to the juvenile detention center. They wouldn't have gone out
of business if these judges had stopped. So I think

(37:46):
they just had I think they had a mutually beneficial arrangement.
I don't think he got extorted at all. The reality
seems to be that Powel and his business partner, the
builder of the PA childcare center, Robert Miracle, agreed to
bribe Conahan Judge Sieverrella in order to secure one point
three million dollars a year and guaranteed rent plus additional
funds because every time they get another youth prisoner, they

(38:08):
get more money. Um. So in exchange for this, Judge
Siavarella and Conahan get hundreds of thousands of dollars per
year in total, about two point eight million dollars um
and this is over I think like a four or
five year period, so a lot of money. Now. Judge
Sievrella was extremely eager to do his part, as this

(38:29):
quote from The Wall Street Journal's coverage makes makes clear.
Quote Judge Judge Mark Sieverrella Jr. Reportedly sent kids to
the private detention centers when probation officers didn't think it
was a good idea. He sent kids there when their
crimes were nonviolent. He sent kids there when their crimes
were insignificant. It was as though he was determined to
keep those private prisons filled with children at all times.

(38:50):
According to news stories, offense is the smallest Swiping a
jar of nutmeg or throwing a piece of steak at
an adult were enough to merit a trip to the
Who's Goal. Over the years, Mark Sieverrella racked up a
truly awesome score. He sent kids to detention instead of
other options, at twice the state average. According to the
New York Times, he tried a prodigious number of cases
in which the accused child had no lawyer. Here, says

(39:13):
the Times, the judges numbers were fully ten times the
state average, and he did it fast, sometimes rendering a
verdict in the neighborhood of a minute and a half
to three minutes. What yeah, like, oh man, just instantly.
Some people will say there were thirty second judgments where
he just stands before him and he's just you're done, bro.
So this is the stuff Mapasse would talk about. He

(39:34):
would be like, we would know him among the other
probation officers. They would already know, like this kid don't
need to go to know, he don't need to go
to Like he's fine, just like let me you know,
I'll take care of you know what I'm saying. And
you stand in front of judge. Soon as you see
the judge, you'll be like, oh shit, here we go.
He's not gonna listen to me, you know what I'm saying.
So my father was like in his thirty years, he

(39:54):
never he never he never recommended prison ever thirty years. Never.
Reck Minty prison. It was always like i'll take him,
I'll take him, I'll take him, I'll take him. Didn't matter.
He knew he knew the judge when he walked in.
He knew the judge. He would be like, the kid's
going to jail. This kid's going to jail. He just
knew as soon as he looked at the judge. Yeah.
And it's one of those like yeah, it's it's it's

(40:18):
just so fucked up that it that it could work
that way, that it's ever been allowed to work that
way that like it doesn't everyone can know it's wrong,
including like fucking the parole officers and everyone. It's just
this guy. It's one of those things like I know
some people who have like not done time because they
got a judge who was like get a great judge. Chill,

(40:41):
Like the judge who was like was like this is bullshit,
Like I have no desire. A friend of I just
didn't go to prison. A couple of we were at
all in court with him a couple of months ago, um,
and it was because the judge was like, well this
is this is like basically said the judge equipment like
this is a stupid case. Yeah. So that does happen.
But I mean, you know, a case like that was

(41:03):
a good judge. She was like, yeah, you get them
sometimes sometimes when they're bad, they can do a lot
of damage. And that's like Sivarella does a lot of damage. Um.
The Morning Call, which is another local paper in Pennsylvania,
does a good job of outlining some of the several
of these cases. Um. And this is from After This
All Broke is a story and a bunch of the

(41:24):
judge's victims sue. So I'm gonna I'm gonna read a
quote here of them, kind of summarizing some of the
worst cases. Among them was Melanie Petrillo, who said she
was twelve when she first went before sie Evarella in
juvenile court in two thousand two. Si Evarella, she said,
wouldn't let her speak in her own defense. On Monday,
Petrilo testified that a visiting friend set a small fire
in a garbage can outside her house. She went inside

(41:46):
to get a glass of water, and police quickly arrived.
She was arrested and later taken before sie Evarella, who
sentenced her to a few months at the former Luzerne
County Juvenile Detention Center. It was horrifying. Petrilo recalled, I
had to put a blanket over my head so the
cockroaches wouldn't all on me, like many of si Evarrella
and Conahan's victims. This was the start of years of
relentless contact between Petrilo, a child, and the criminal justice system.

(42:09):
When Patrilo went away for the first time, it was
to a county center, not to the place bribing the judge,
but she was released under harsh probation terms, which of course,
she violated, which brought her back in front of Judge Ciavarella,
who then sent her to PA Childcare. Who was this
place giving him kickbacks? Of course, Yeah, very old story.
Petrilo claims this time behind bars led to her falling

(42:31):
in with a bad crowd due to her reputation, which
led to her getting a burglary charge. She winds up
in front of Siavarla a third time, and she she
doesn't get out of juvenile attention until she's an adult,
like her whole childhood from age twelve on. Um, So
the last six years of her childhood just gone as
a result of this this chain of events. Now, the
judge sent another girl, Elizabeth Laurent, to a pH to

(42:53):
pH childcare for thirty two days after she was caught
bringing opiate pills to school. She of course then had
after ing out of PIA Childcare, she has a probation violation. Obviously,
this happens with all of them, and she winds up
in front of Judge si Evrella again. He sends her
next to Camp Adams, which is a juvenile boot camp.
I haven't seen any evidence this boot camp gave camp

(43:14):
gave him evidence, gave him kickbacks. Like he doesn't always
send kids to the places that are paying him. He
really likes to send kids, incarcerated children, even if he's
not getting money. He's just fine to take bribes for
it too. Elizabeth Laurent, because she winds up getting sent
to this boot camp, loses the college scholarship that she
had won. Uh and obviously things go worse for her

(43:36):
after this. She claims that she started hanging out with
a quote unquote bad kid because the parents of her
old friends wouldn't let her hang out with him anymore. Um,
and like, yeah, things go you know. From there, She's
in and out of different places. Her overwhelming memory of
Sieverrella as he demolished her hopes and dreams again. She
had a college scholarship set up when this happens was
coldness and what she described as a nonchalant demeanor. That's whatever,

(44:00):
like he's again very perfunctory for him. Um. Zachary Richards
wound up in front of the judge because he stole
a candy bar. Uh. He was after this, Yeah, at
age fourteen, he steals a candy bar. Sieverrella sends him
to juvenile attention um, and he's there for the rest
of his childhood, from age fourteen to eighteen, mostly in
pah childcare, the place giving the judge kickbacks. Um. His

(44:21):
mom is adamant that Zachary never recovers from this, and
she blames his suicide at age seven on Judge si Evarella.
She is not the only mother making this claim. And
I'm gonna quote now from a write up by pin Live.
Fonso's son was seventeen and an all star wrestler with
a chance at a college scholarship when he landed in
Sieverarella's courtroom on a minor drug paraphernalia charge. Though the

(44:42):
teen Edward Kinseloski Edward Kinzikowski had no prior criminal record,
he spent months at the private lockups in a wilderness
camp and missed his senior year of high school. Kinzikowski
emerged an angry, bitter, depressed young man. He committed suicide
last June at the age of twenty three. He was
just never the same. He couldn't recover. He wanted to

(45:03):
go on with his life, but he was just hurt.
He was affected so deeply, more than anyone knew. That's
his his mom um. Yeah, it's bleak uh yeah, stuff
like that. It just hits so close to home because
I know kids who were either my friends or people

(45:23):
like taught that, Like I know the like man, these
are like gentle souls and then they're put in this
situation over a motherfucking candy bar. Come on, man, Yeah yeah,
and then was crazy is like at least and Cally
Camp is your best bet, you know what I'm saying,
Because it's like there's a school there, you know what

(45:46):
I'm saying. It's not like East, Like, it's not like Central,
which is like I mean, that's just that's or you
get sent up to y A, which is California Youth
Authority that's up in the north. That's prison. Yeah, and
it's very saying because some states the wild ferness bootcamp,
so the worst place you can go. It just kind
of depends on, yeah, your system, because some of those
places are nightmares. Yeah. Yeah, it's just everywhere's you know,

(46:10):
different depending on how bad they're din. And obviously our
camp is not wilderness in any way. It's just like
it's there's there's one in Whittier, California, like just right
off the corner of like, yeah, like the wilds of Whittier. Yeah,
it's just Los Pedrinos. It's like Whittier and freaking Marvista Drive.
It's just like, oh hey, look there's a juvenile prison

(46:32):
right there. Yeah. So one of Judged Ciavarella's favorite places
to send kids when he couldn't send them to p
a childcare was the Glen Mills School. Ryan Lamoreaux, for example,
was sent there by Civarella for five years on a
vandalism charge. Another fourteen year old was sent there for
the crime of stealing loose change from unlocked cars to
buy a bag of chips. So that's it. That's that's

(46:54):
why that kid gets sent to the Glen Mills School,
not the car. He ain't still at a car. No,
didn't even break away, just took a change out of it.
I just needed some quarters, which like, yeah, we can
say isn't ideal behavior, but like I mean, find the kid.
Let me let me tell you what this place is.
Like I could quote from a Philadelphia Inquirer article for
some context on the Glen Mill school where he sends

(47:16):
a child for stealing spare change. Another teenager was removed
from Glenn Mills and sent to a state run facility
in two thousand seventeen after counselors stepped on the boy's
face and broke his jaw so severely it had to
be wired shut. And last summer, two counselors were caught
up using a Philadelphia teenager on surveillance video. One slammed
him to the floor and choked him, then the other
punched the seventeen year old in the face. Both were

(47:39):
later arrested. So that's I feel like kind of ship
that happens in Glenn Mills. I feel like you just said,
stepped on his face. Yep, that's what you say, right, yeah, yeah,
because yeah, yeah, And these are two, these are a
couple of cases, but like it happens so constantly that
in two thousand, nineteen, Glenn Mills has its license revoked

(47:59):
and the state removes all children from its custody. Now,
Glenn Mills had been founded in eighteen twenty six. Um, so,
judge Ceverrell as a monster. I'm sure this place has
been about that bad for in their defense in the
eighteen hundred's, you could step on a kid's face. Yeah
you could. It was almost mandatory. Yeah, um Now, And

(48:21):
it's one of those things. And when you read articles
about like the fallout from the cast the Cash for
Kids scandal, there's a bunch of like comments from judges
and other people in the criminal justice system being like,
these men did tremendous damage to the criminals, to trust
in the criminal justice system, to the sanctity of the courts,
to the sanctity of justice. It's like, these guys are

(48:42):
pieces of ship. But dude, yeah, like, don't don't try
to don't try to bro like, come on now, we's no,
I mean, we're bad, but we don't try to give
me that ship man. Yeah, you're good. And the reality
is that all of the horrible things we've talked about,
he only got in trouble for because he took bribes
to do them. If he had just done this because

(49:03):
he was a piece of ship and he was willing
to do he did a lot of it for without
getting brought um. If he just hadn't taken the bribes,
he never would have gotten for this ship. Um And
in fact, the hellish sentences he's a he imposed on
children for minor what you could only often loosely describe
as crimes were lauded and celebrated by his community for years.

(49:25):
In two thousand six, he was reelected for another ten
year term. Inn pr reports quote. The community applauded him,
schools applauded him, police applauded him. He would go into
schools and he would warn kids, if you come before me,
I will send you away. And so schools invited him
year after year to come in and talk to them.
So when a kid came before him and there was
a school crime, this could be a kid getting into

(49:47):
a fight, or in our case, we had a kid
who did a fake MySpace page for the principal, he
would say, do you remember me being in your school?
And he would say, I wish I said, I would
send you away, get him out of here. And that's
what it happened. He says, a kid to a fucking
child prison for making a fake MySpace page. Like an
administrator at the school, Oh my god, yeah, like a

(50:08):
fake MySpace page, he said, locks a kid up, he
gives them a criminal record for a fake fucking MySpace page.
So this is why. Look, let me listeners, this is
why were during elections when we hear terms like, oh,
he's going to be tough on crime, We're like, that's
a dog whistle. This is what we're talking about. Yeah,
it's like, that's what you mean by tough on crime. Yeah,

(50:30):
like if the kid makes a my Space making fun
of his principle, I'm tough on crime. Like all right, bro,
that's what you mean by crime. Just blasting kids lives
apart for no real reason. But you know who won't
destroy the lives of children for no good reason. Can't
say you can't say that because it could be a
Washington State Washington State Highway patrol. I was like, I

(50:53):
don't know, man, I can pretty much guarantee and that
high possibility. One time we had a little FBI could
be the FBI, or it could be I mean even worse,
it could be UM one of those the food box
companies that uses their profits to hunt children for sports.
One you really don't like. Um, I don't know which

(51:15):
one I think you hate. Oh, they're the ones who
have the the island where you can hunt, hunt, hunt
kids for sport, right seriously in Ada that yeah, ah,
we're back. Ah. Those are some good ads for um.

(51:37):
Absolutely Now fifty prop of children who appeared before Judge
c Evarella did so without a lawyer. He remanded an
average of three hundred children per year into custody, which
is nearly obviously one a day. When you factor in vacations,
it probably is about one a day. In the years
before he made the deal with p A Childcare, Cfarella

(51:57):
had remanded about four percent of the juveniles in his
to criminal custody. As soon as he starts getting paid,
it goes to because this is very obvious. Some of
the offenses that he locked kids up for included es
stated making a face fake MySpace page. Other kids were
jailed for stealing a four dollar jar of nutmeg or
throwing a sandal at a parent. Right, yeah, why would

(52:23):
you not laugh if you were a judge, You're like
a sandal at the kid that the kids should have
is the judge should throw a sandal at just throw
a sandal at him. That is absurd. Also, uh Jen's ears.
Let me tell you what my space is. My space

(52:46):
was when the Internet was innocent, and it was one
of the precursors to it was a social media page.
That's when some guy named Tom tricked all of us
into learning to learning how to come If Facebook, if
imagine if Facebook hadn't destroyed civil society, that was. Yeah,

(53:06):
it's popular for a while. Some people found some good
bands because of it, and the guy who found it
got six hundred million dollars and disappeared. It is like
it is not mired in any way in any of
the never changed picture, never changed his profile picture, And
so far there hasn't been any self indulgent documentaries, hasn't

(53:29):
said shit. Just what proves he's the only one of
them who's a reasonable person Because a reasonable person gets
six million dollars and it disappears. Yeah, and I'm gone. Yeah. Um.
Siavarella told one kid during sentencing to count the number
of birds on the window sill outside the courtroom. He

(53:51):
gave the boy one month and detention for each bird
sitting outside the courtroom, Like that's the kind of shift
he's doing because he's like it's sad fun for himself,
you know. Yeah because the kid I got a lawyer, Yeah,
because getting out of what who do? Yeah, what's he
gonna do? Complained to someone that yeah, yeah, a kid
can't be like I feel like this, I feel like
that's not legal. I feel like you can't do that.

(54:13):
Yeah kid, yeah, maybe three dollars. In interviews during this period,
Siavrella was very open about how severe he could be.
He told one journalist quote, my experience has been if
you bring a child and who broke the law and
put him on probation, chances are he'll be back in
the system in a short period of time. If a
child believes the consequence will be anything other than placement,

(54:35):
they don't care. I have to find consequences that will
get their attention. Now, obviously, we know statistically that like
the worst thing you can do if you want kids
to not go on to go to prison is locked
them up with their kids. Yeah, there's that has a
massive correlation with them being locked up as adults. But whatever, Yeah,
there's that. Also. Also, let me throw in this thing

(54:57):
about probation. Why kids go ac Because if you say
part of your probation is you can have no interaction
with anyone from your former life or anyone who's involved
in any sort of criminal or gang activity. But if
that person is your fucking brother, Like, where do you so?
Do I need to move out? Like? What do you

(55:18):
so if you catch me with my uncle who just
sent me to go get some groceries, I violated probation.
I guess I'm going back to prisoner, you know what
I'm saying. So, like even the probation stuff like food's
going back. It's like, that's so I have to move.
What you're saying is if I go back home and
and the probation officer pull up and I'm literally just

(55:40):
sitting on my porch, you know what I'm saying, and
the person who's sitting across street, who just checking the mail,
just happens to be from the same hood I'm from.
I broke my probation. I'm going back to prison. Yeah,
It's yeah, It's like it's very difficult for to not
wind up in that situation. It's yeah, yeah, And that's
it's that's why I would suppose us to be um Now,

(56:02):
Judge sever Will explained in an interview to another reporter, quote,
school is a place for kids to go and learn.
Two percent of kids at school should not ruin it
for the other ninety percent, anyone who gets in the
way of that, I don't have a problem sending them away.
Which is I can't think of how many times I
heard logic like this from like adults in my life
when I was a kid, that like, well, you just
got to get rid of those kids who are are
disrupting everyone else, as opposed to like, well maybe you

(56:25):
could figure out what's going on in different Well you're
the red Mustang to take care of them or whatever.
But no, that's not you're about the red Mustang. No,
that's a similar to like the broken window theory. It's
like the red Mustang is like, well, if any of
us are speeding on the road and you're driving a Prius,
like nobody notices, but if you're speeding and you're a

(56:46):
red Mustang and everybody's gonna catch you speeding. So that
kid who always got them outbursts, who always got well,
you're a red Mustang, man, Like, everybody's gonna see what
you're doing. So like if you so you're to them,
and if airbody sees it, everybody sees you speed, and
then all little priuss think that they can speed. So
then that's how they du these kids. Man. It's yeah, yeah,

(57:09):
almost punched. An administrator was making that analysis once. I
was like, Yo, I'm you're looking at me like I'm
twenty three years old as when I first started teaching.
I'm like, I'm twenty three, So I'm looking at you
like you're talking about me, like I'm that kid, Like
what the now, I'm good, I can't work here. Yeah. Yeah,
it's uh, it's it's awesome. I mean because because they're

(57:29):
not thinking about it as like I'm going I I
think we should be destroying the lives of children and
continning them to a life of what, in many cases
is very close to slavery. They're thinking like, well, this
is it's tough love. This is how it's the same
attitude towards like, well, yeah, sometimes you gotta smack a
kid around, you know, sometimes you've got to, like you
have to, you have to be harsh with children, otherwise

(57:50):
they'll they'll grow into two monsters. Yeah, which that's analysis
than we could do. Yeah, Yeah. I even told a
kid who came out of Julvie that ended up in
my class. I told him that theory. But I told
him in the theory in the sense that, like, these
people are gunning for you, you know what I'm saying.
So I'm like, like, stay close, Homi, Like just in

(58:11):
the sense of like I'm trying to like I'm trying
to protect you from this, you know what I'm saying,
Like a matter of fact, like the Jevie you came
from I used to work at before I worked here.
So I'm like, I'm trying to tell you, bro, you
don't you ain't trying to go back, right, They're gunning
for you. This is the way they think of you.
They think of you like this, bro. Man, I'm I'm

(58:31):
I'm so read more. Yeah, yeah, um so the Yeah,
it's it's it's pretty bad. This is a pretty bad
scheme that these guys have. And again, it would have
been perfectly legal if they hadn't been taking bribes. Nothing
about these horrible you see in all the coverage, these

(58:51):
like horrible cases that I've just related to you, They
go to the tail about them, but they really note
that like and it would have been fine if they
hadn't taken kick. Those aren't crying, Yeah, crimes. You can
be sad the children as you want as a judge,
it's fine. The scheme fell apart because in two thousand seven,
the parent of a child being railroaded by the judge
placed a call to the Juvenile Law Center of Pennsylvania.

(59:13):
Uh and these people rule. They started to investigate and
found that kids regularly appeared in front of the judge
without any lawyer of their own. And again, this is
something he gets in trouble for. It's something you can say,
like he doesn't have a legal right to do, but
he had done stuff like the campaign add that he
couldn't technically do. They've not been trouble for this if
it hadn't have been for the bribes. I don't think.
I think it's really unlikely. Um, they noted. So these

(59:36):
the Juvenile Law Center looks into him, and they noticed
that he's got this tendency. Kids are showing up without
a lawyer, and he's got a tendency to very quickly
make declare children guilty and take them away from their parents.
So they petition the State Supreme Court in two thousand
and eight to vacate these judgments, and the court denies them.
So again, if it hadn't have been for the bribery,
the court like already proved, if it hadn't been for

(59:57):
the bribery, he probably would have been fine. Fine. The
thing that destroys him is that in two thousand six,
so two years before the Juvenile Law Center starts their
investigation and makes this petition, the FBI gets a tip
about the fact that he's being bribed from somebody who
works in and around him. Right, finally, one of these
fucking people because everyone knows what's more or less what's happening.

(01:00:19):
They don't know for a fact about the bribe. But
like he buys a yacht. He and Judge Conahan have
these mansions next to each other. They've got like, yeah,
they're like living judges. Don't aren't poor people? Right, Like
you're taking care of but like they're living out of
their means walking here with a role got the role

(01:00:40):
ons like up guys like yo, when you get that
rolex you know, I mean works from overtime Like what yeah, bam, yeah,
where you get that role judge overtime? Yeah? Yeah, you
get judges there's noose things judge overtime. Gee, here's those
zinc so he uh so, somebody um gives the FBI
a tip um and they do an invest diigation. And
in two thousand and eight, the same year that the

(01:01:02):
State Supreme Court denies this petition, the FBI charges him
um and they come out with like you know, they
it's the same thing we've seen with the Capital. You
get this big charging document that has all of the
things the state is accusing them of. Um. They accuse
c la and Conahan of quote, ordering juveniles to be
sent to these facilities and which judges had a financial
interest even when juvenile probation officers did not recommend placement. Now,

(01:01:25):
a flurry of press coverage and investigations followed. Here's the
Juvenile Justice Center quote. The scope of the violations of
the children's rights in Luzerne County turned out to be
more egregious than anyone could have imagined. From two thousand
three to two thousand eight, the Luzerne County judicial corruption
scandal altered the lives of more than twenty five hundred
children and involved more than six thousand cases. Over fifty

(01:01:46):
percent of the children who appeared before Crella lacked legal representation.
Sixty percent of these children were removed from their homes.
Many of them were sent to one or both of
the two facilities the center of the corruption scandal, believed
to be the largest judicial corruption scandal in our history.
This is like a lot of lives that these guys
just nuke. I mean, and and those numbers are pretty stark.

(01:02:08):
So Judge Conahan, Uh, the guy who says his dad
beat him and you know, is an alcoholic. As soon
as the the FBI starts gunning for them and there's
charging documents, he is smarter than his partner. He's like, yep,
I did it. You know what, you don't have to
take me to court. I plead guilty, right, which saves
the government a lot of money. And as a general rule,

(01:02:28):
that's part of why if you plead. And this is
problematic too because oftentimes they use this to like funk
people over and like give people charges that maybe they
wouldn't have if they went to court. But you kind
of take well, better to take a guarantee, maybe go
away for ten years. If this actually goes to write
in this case, it's fine. Um, he's he's absolutely guilty.

(01:02:49):
He pleads guilty, he gets like eleven years. Robert Miracle, um,
who's the guy who's the builder, gets like gets like
a year or so, so does Robert Powell. So everyone
involved pleads guilty and goes away except for Judge ci Evarella,
who decides he's not gonna plead guilty. He denies he
did anything wrong, and he demands to take it to
trial and fight his charges. And he's the one that

(01:03:11):
he's the one that like came from the struggle. He's
the trigger man. Yeah, and he's he's the guy who
grew up poor too. Okay, this is all adding up
because like, if you know you call for money, you
know how to play the game you like. Listen, dude,
Yeah I'm guilty. Also, as a side note, for anybody
who's in any sort of like romantic relationships, take the
advice at a rich dude, just take the L. Listen

(01:03:33):
when you if you wrong, you know you're wrong, just
take the L. You know a baby, love baby, my bad.
You are right. Comprehensively good advice. It is comprehensively good advice.
The L. Just take the L. Guys, So Judge c
Evererella does not do this, Um, and he makes it
very public. He's he's constantly while his trial is going on,

(01:03:55):
he's up in front of the press as often as possible.
He defends himself by saying this to journalists about the
bribes that he took. This was a finder's fee. We
needed this center built. I was always yelling at kids
because that's what they needed, because parents didn't know it
to be parents and so forth. So what's the big
deal now, I mean, everybody was celebrating me all these years,
so now they're not happy with me anymore, just because

(01:04:16):
I took this money finders fee. This was a finder's fee.
Fan this commission, y'all talking about bribes. It was a
finder's fee, y'all talking about how dangerous the streets of
Philadelphia are. I don't clean these streets, and now you've
got a problem making a little money off it. Dang,

(01:04:38):
it's very funny. So he gets convicted UM sentence to
like twenty eight years in prison. Now Conahan also gets
like eleven years or something like that, a pretty significant
sentence UM. But after he's in prison a few years,
COVID nineteen hit. These guys get like convicted and like
two eight nine UM COVID nineteen hits you know, a
decade or so later and con Hand gets compassionate leave

(01:05:01):
to go live with his wife under house arrest. Right,
So he's like he's in a back in his mansion
with his wife. He does his time, but like a
little early UM, Judge c Evarella is still in incarcerated UM,
and he's he's appealed constantly. He continues to protest his
conviction sentence, and he's asked, he asks to be set
free as a result of COVID. And I want to

(01:05:22):
quote from an article in The Times Leader about his
judge's response to him asking to get out early. Chief
US District Judge Christopher C. Connor acknowledged that these are
compelling reasons for compassionate release, but still denied it, saying
that Sieverrella continues to fail to acknowledge the seriousness of
his conduct, while he now concedes his honest services mail
fraud and tax fraud charges are serious crimes and are

(01:05:42):
not to be taken lightly, Connor writes in his decision,
he persists in downplaying the overall criminal scheme and his
role within it. Connor goes on to say that the
primary need for Sieverrella's lengthy prison sentence is so he
can reflect on the seriousness of the crime and to
promote respect for the law, something which Connor suggests has
not happened. So I don't know, judges like you still

(01:06:03):
don't get it. Yeah, think about that however you want,
right not, But but I'm glad he's punished for it.
The boy. The boy got to go home with the
ankle bracelet. The other homy that tried to fight is like,
no ni yaka sit in there day, yeah, and kind
of handles some time, and it's like you an't think
about him getting led out early however you want. Severel

(01:06:25):
is the one who is doing the direct rm um,
the most direct arm at least they both are doing
direct harm. Siever was the what kind of sentencing the kids?
You know, what kind of prison is that? Do you know?
Like what kind of prison they're in? I think it's
gonna be a federal prison, right, because yeah, it's a
federal prison. It's it's probably a nicer federal prison. I

(01:06:45):
would That's what I was going to say. I was like, yes,
it's not the worst of them, but I don't know,
can't put no judge and you know, like g pop.
You know what I'm saying, be careful with that guy
so he doesn't get you know, murdered. Yeah, he ain't
doing not of time. He goes that time going done
real quick. But a judge and there with general population
Yeah yeah, um but yeah that's the cash for kids scandal.

(01:07:07):
Oh my god, dude. Good stuff. Uh triggered, reminded of
a lot of things and bad. I feel like to
describe this is the type of stuff that like I
I find so like, how do I say this refreshing

(01:07:30):
in the sense that like it's telling the rest of
the world like, see, we're not crazy. I'm not making
this stuff up when we say bigger. It's like I
don't have two hours to explain to you that the
system is broken or that it's corrupt and just well,
if you were not guilty, then you have nothing to

(01:07:50):
worry about, like to explain why that's the dumbest shit
I've ever heard. It's like, listen, this is what I'm
trying to tell you, Like fools get sent to jail
on dumb shit because there's money to be made, is
what I'm trying to say. You know what I'm saying
and it's like this they got in trouble because it

(01:08:11):
was obvious other judges make money doing this ship. They
just don't take a direct payment from a dude because
that's stupid. Because they're smarter, they get consulting fees, they
get like side jobs where they're like working for this
company or giving advice or like helping to do Like
there's ways everyone it's the same way with like Congressman,
the dumb ones take a pile of cash for something.

(01:08:33):
The smart ones quit and get a highly paid job
as a consultant, right, Like there's yeah, there's so many
other people profit from doing the same thing that these
guys got caught because they were stupid as shit, and
they still were able to people lives, you know, at
least for a while. Hopefully as many of them as
possible recovered, but you know, not all it. Obviously it's

(01:08:54):
hard to come back, mamselves, right, Like, yeah, it's hard
to come back, dude, It's hard hard to come back. Yeah, yeah, thanks, right,
thanks for On Thursday, we're talking about the Texas criminal
justice system. That's the bastard is the Texas juvenile Yeah,
so check back in Thursday. Um, and I don't know.

(01:09:17):
Go hug a cat. Yeah, what are we doing? Is
it a live show, Sophie. Yeah, February seventeen, Foo February
seventeen and the episode description you could click the link,
but it's it's Momenthouse dot com slash behind the Bastards.
It's the three of us doing a live stream show
and you watch it wherever you want to. It'll be

(01:09:38):
live for a little while too, So if you can't
do six pm Pacific, you can do it on demand. Yeah,
any other time. Yeah, that'll check it out. And uh
oh yeah, I got a novel you can, Yeah, you do.
You can google After the Revolution a k Press. If

(01:09:59):
you preorder it out you get as signed copy. It
will come out in May, so go go buy that.
You get a book too, don't you? Mr prop I do, man,
you can call me Ernest slimming Way. You know what
I'm talking about. Uh yeah, poetry book called Terraform Propy
pop dot com. Come grab that book is poetry and
short story. I think it's dope, Sophie. Gotta signed copy,

(01:10:20):
you know what I'm saying? Good stuff? Yeah, check it
out and go go check us back out on Thursday
where it will be sad again. Bam

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Part One: The Cash for Kids Scandal