Part One: The World Anti-Communist League: A Study in Nazi Death Squads

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's assassinating my John Letton why why why? Sophy? Why
did I say that? I don't know? Why would anyone
say such a terrible thing? That's what I want to know, Probert.
I'm simply asked you why you would start like why?
I don't know. Nobody knows, Sophie. That's the most important

(00:21):
thing is that no one knows why things happen, where
they happen, or who they happen too. But this is
Behind the Bastards podcast, bad people tell you all about
them and uh, Normally this is a podcast where I
read a story about a bad person to somebody who's
coming in cold, But today I am the person who

(00:43):
is Chili, who was who is coming in frigid frost
on my shoulders as I talk to my good buddy Chris, Chris,
how are you doing? Do are you okay? It is
thundering incredibly ominously, which I feel like is a good
for the story. Yes, ominous thunder nothing better, turn up
your mic pick up, let's get some of that on

(01:04):
the line. It's like I can like feel stuff shaking
a little bit. It's a is a is a pretty
impressive thunder round. Yeah that's good. Um, How are we?
What do we? What do we? What are we? What
are we today? What are we talking about? Who are we?
Where are we? Robert? We were told that after the
war the Nazis vanished without a trace, But about Nazis

(01:27):
that they went away forever after the war, still dream
of a master race. The history books they tell us
of their defeat and forty five. But Robert, why did
they all come out of the woodwork on the day
the Nazi died? Okay, I've I've done. I've done my
obligatory chumbawompo, and so now I can answer that actual question.
That was a good Thanks Chris. I'm gonna have to

(01:49):
throw up. I'm gonna have to one but some chumbas
later on here, But I'll let that be something that
we build to. The funny thing is my favorite version
of the song actually isn't the Chumba Womba version. It's
the what was it? The Stockholms Women's Anti Fascist Choir
did a version of it that rules very good. That
does sound nice, Yes, it was, it was. It's very exciting.

(02:09):
And the other thing that's exciting is that the answer
to that question is that it turns out after the
day the Nazi died, the Nazis came out of the
woodwork and they all joined the World Anti Communist League.
Is there we go? There we go? Yes, these guys,

(02:30):
guys a bunch of real freaks and weirdos. Somewhat weirdly
for a story that is about a lot of Nazis,
were actually not starting in Germany the actual story here. Yeah, well,
I mean, what are the sort of consistent themes of
this entire episode? Is stuff happening around the orbit of

(02:52):
the Soviet Union and so the I guess you could
technically start the story in Ukraine, but I didn't do that. Instead,
I'm starting it in China in the nine and this
is a year in which the Soviets are going to
create a monster that will haunt them untill the day
of the USSR collapses, and that monster is called the
KMT or the Chinese the Chinese Nationalist Party. Now, okay,

(03:18):
people who know the history of this are going to
be like, Chris, have you lost your mind? What do
you mean the Soviets created the MT? And the answer
is yes, I have lost my mind, but is for
reasons that are completely unrelated to this. What for reasons
that are related to the Daily Show. We all agreed
to do. Yeah that yeah, and also also this episode.
But yes, the Daily Show. Um, I who what a

(03:39):
good idea that was. I genuinely I cannot believe I
was sober. Well I agreed to that incredible hitty, widely
baffling decisions. Yeah, very very happy. We got multiple other
people brought on problem, say Brbard and I were not

(04:01):
sober when we agree to that. I mean that explains
a lot. I was sober last in two thousand and nine.
So anyway, okay, yeah, that's that's that's a pretty recent so. Okay,
so we've actually talked about this period all the way
back in the world episode by the Chinese Warlord period

(04:21):
that I did. Um So the Nationalist Party or the
CAMT is by by Chinese standards, even in like they
are pretty old political formation by Chinese standards. Um, it's
founded in night in eight nine by Sunday at Send,
but no idea it went back that far. Yeah, well

(04:42):
it's kind of weird. So it's it's there are two
different dates. You see about it found that there's one
date where Sunny at Send starts an organization that joins
another organization. But yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty. It's it's
really like the oldest of the sort of continuous like
Chinese revolutionary groups that come out of the sort of
pre overthrow of the Chandannasty era, and you know, it

(05:04):
does a lot of stuff. They do a bunch of revolutions,
but by twenty three they're just a disaster. They're they're
a complete mess. They're there organizational mess or political mess.
Militarily is a mass financially is a mess like this
is supposed to be like a mass political party. Right,
they're trying to take over all of China. They don't
they don't even have a newspaper. It is it is,
this is this is China's Democratic Party. Yeah. And the USSR,

(05:28):
having failed in their attempt to sort of bring revolution
to the West via like the Red Army storming through
Eastern Europe, the consequences of which we will get back
to in a second. Uh, the os of turns attention
East and Sun yet send the Bolsheviks come to an
agreement in which the Soviets start sending advisors and weapons
to arm the KMT and the war against the sort
of Chinese warlords and chief among those people as a

(05:50):
guy named Michale board and actually don't know if it's
Michael or Michale, probably Kale. If they're Russian, you always
say my Stuffale, Michale Borden. Who's He's like, that's a
Russian nash name. He's he's a he's like a yeah,
that's a good one. Mhm. He's like he's like the Bolsheviks,

(06:12):
Bolshevik Like he's a very very old school like guy
guy guy who left the Bund and joined the Bolsheviks
in like nineteen three. Yeah, he has this like impeccable
sort of revolutionary credentials smelled Linen's morning breath like that
that close. Yeah, yeah, And he's about to make one
of the worst mistakes the USSR has ever made, which

(06:32):
is pretty impressive if you look at the history of
the USR, Yeah, which includes the largest lake in the
world that they killed. Yeah, it's it's pretty remarkable. And
like this one, I probably killed more people than than
losing that lake, which is yeah. I look, I'm a

(06:52):
big believer that like fuck lakes, fuck them all, kill
every lake. I mean, look, hey, you you two can
be come. The Soviet Union way wage a protractive people's
war against lakes exactly this. This is my opinion. When
the revolution comes, the first thing we need to deal
with is not the fascists. You know, it's not not
not like control of the far right in in Florida

(07:13):
or wherever. We got a nuke the great Lakes, not
the cities. We got a nuke the lakes themselves. That's
the only thing that's going to protect a Soviet I know,
I know what you're gonna say, but I need you
to listen to a song called the Wreck of the
Edmund Fitzgerald by Gordon Lightfoot, and then tell me those
lakes don't have some vengeance coming. We're not blowing up

(07:35):
the lake. We could, we shouldn't. Your slogan a nuke
for every lake, a nuke for every lake, Christopher, well,
for all the great ones his side, Fuck them lakes.
That is the official stance of cool zone media on
the watching the lakes. Yeah. Absolutely, it would be good

(07:55):
for everybody. It'll bring in tourism to whatever cities people
have on those fucking lakes. It'll be good for people.
That's just science, that's just mathematics. This has going on
so long. Please please save us from this Chris So
speaking speaking speaking of saving people from things so bored

(08:16):
in with with Sonia send sort of helping approval turns
to camp to you into like a modern mass political party.
With this sort of centralized organization and the centralized political apparatus,
they get an actual like ideology and as it's going
to become very important later on in the story, the
party starts to develop political and ideological discipline um and
and as part of this effort, the Nationalists send Shankai

(08:39):
Check to the U. S SR to study Soviet military
and ideological techniques, and when he comes back, they put
him in charge of a sort of new Soviet style
military academy from which he is going to build an
absolutely enormous power based in the army because he's the
guy who is now training all of the officers. But
the Soviets are like this is fine. They call him
the Red General like Chika. Check like shakes hands with

(09:00):
Stalin and everything seems to be going great, except there's
there's there's one minor problem here. Schenkai Check is not
a communist. He has not a leftist at all. He's
like base. Basically, he's a gangster who's like kind of nationalist. Now.
The other thing that that's that's extremely bad about all
of this is that sun yet Send dies and shankay

(09:23):
Check is pretty rapidly able to take control of the
party now now, And the everything that's happening here is
it even by the sort of Soviet standards, right, I mean,
this is this is pre Stalin like fully taking control.
So even by Soviet standards, the the news sort of
came to your organization is incredibly centralized, and the person
at the top of it has an enormous amount of
political power. And so you know, Chan takes over the

(09:45):
party and he also sort of personally commands the loyalty
of this new generation of officers who've been trained by
the Soviets, has about of Soviet weapons, and you know
the result of this is that he now has the
best army of any Chinese political faction. And what what
has happened here is that the Soviets have an essence
like they they've built a party in their own image, right.
They They've built this party that's designed with this sort
of like ruthless efficiency and stamping out kind of revolutionaries,

(10:08):
and they have handed it to a fanatical anti communist
drug lord who immediately turns around and uses it to
massacre like the entire Chinese urban working class and the
first of his white terrors. Now that seems bad for organ, Yeah,
it's it's not good. My my favorite part, I think
I told the story and in the last episode. My
favorite part about this though, is that like, okay, so

(10:30):
Shankai check is like killing the communist right in the
communists are like, they go to the Soviet Union, They're like, hey,
what should we do? And the Soviet Union is like
they're having some kind of like Trotsky and Stalin are
having some kind of argument, and the line that comes
out of them is like, well, you guys have to
like stay allied with this party that is murdering you.
And it's just like yeah, and then they all die. Right,

(10:53):
he kills something like a million people. Um, okay, so
that's that's a pretty serious set rhymes against him and there, Yeah, yeah,
it's it's really bad and this is this is this
is this is the Soviets doing great stuff. But you know, okay,
so Chanka kills kills about a million people trying to
wipe on the Chinese left. But we can we can
ask ourselves another question, which is, how did this actually

(11:15):
go for Shankai Shack in the long term. And this
is a question that could be answered by answering the
very simple question, Robert who actually won the Chinese Civil War?
Was it China technically? So it went well, yeah, went great. Yeah,

(11:36):
that's that's this is this is this is why Taiwan
and China are currently one country run by the Chinese
national government. Yes, yeah, yeah, it's it's great. I mean,
if you listen to America for roughly a generation and
a half, Taiwan is China and the only Chinese government
that we need to worry about. Yeah, we we will.
We will come back to that because that that turns

(11:56):
out to be a thing in this story. But you know,
so so Chakai check, like the net effect of Schenkai
checks like incredibly vehement anti communism is that he creates
another monster who is going to absolutely destroy him. That
that that that person, of course being mause a Dung.
And you know when when you sort of like take
kind of macro view of this, right, this whole thing

(12:18):
is a cycle, right, the Bolsheviks are the monster that
sort of capitalism unleash when they crushed the Paris Commune.
The Bolsheviks created the modern cam T, and the KMT,
you know, like slaughters the entire urbans, like Chinese Communist Party,
and they you know, they unleash another monster by turning
the CCP into the sort of the peasant army that
Mao is going to use to crush the KMT themselves
after War two. But you know, the problem here, and

(12:40):
the problem for this story is that Mao didn't actually
finish off the KMT that you know, they retreat to
Taiwan after losing civil war, and they're able to do
this because the KMT forces that were occupying Taiwan do
what they call the February incident. And it's kind of complicated.
We will one day do a full thing on this,

(13:02):
but the basics of it is there's an uprising in
Taiwan against the sort of brutality of the camp occupation,
and the KMT kills something like twenty thou people in
a week, and this is like, you know, this is
a genuine horror right there. They're beheading students. Is a
lot of people to kill in a week. Yeah, I
can kill maybe five thousand people in a week. Yeah,
I mean, you have to resources we have here at

(13:24):
Cool Zone Media. Yeah, tops five thousand. I think I
I think if I think you can do five thousand,
I think you pull everyone else together, we can get
a number up to maybe seven. Yeah, we have a
lot of staff. Now, we do have a lot of staff.
Now we have a lot of staff. Now, Sophie, can
we can we get some of the numbers people to
just to just run that by so we we have
some options on the table. Okay, thank you, Sophie. Yeah.

(13:49):
So so that you know that they came to you
is like they they're like cutting people, like cutting parts
of people's faces off and like taking it's it's really bad.
This is like this is this is like this is
the maas to be like the foundational like crime of
modern Taiwanese political history. And it's there's like a huge
portion of like all of the politics that are gonna

(14:10):
happen in Taiwan from then until like now are in
large part because of this um and and if you
read books about Shankai Check, like well the book books
that are not about Shanka Check, but we're like Shankai
Check shows up for some reason. Uh, this is like
the crime that they always talk about and you know,
it is really bad. But the thing you have to
understand about Shankai check is that like this is probably

(14:31):
not even in his top ten war crimes. Like this
is a man who once killed four hundred thousand civilians
by blowing up a single damn after the February incident Taiwan,
and tell like the nineties is under this thing, this
thing called the white terror, where you know, the government
disappears a bunch of people, they kill a bunch of people,
they torture a bunch of people. But the thing is, again,

(14:52):
this is his second white terror, right man. And you
know that's something he and I have in common, because
that's what people call me when I've had a couple too. Man,
you tell me that much. You know, Actually I feel
like I feel like I should actually have looked into
shanke h drug use more because this guy, this guy
is running a lot of drugs. But you know, but
the thing about these white terrors, right is it like, Okay,

(15:15):
the the the the white terror that he does in
Taiwan is like a genu wine horror, right It's it's
also he kills something like a twenty five of the
people at the first white terror killed like this guy good,
So he's moving in the right direction. A couple more
terrors and he won't be killing anybody at all. Well,
I mean the thing that the thing that Shank Check
does and we're gonna see in the story is that

(15:35):
he stops. Okay, he doesn't stop killing people in Taiwan,
but like the number of people he kills in Taiwan
go down over time, the number of skills this is
sort of wind, but the number people he kills in
every other country just starts like rapidly increasing as time
goes on. Yeah, I mean, you got look, you're gonna
kill the people somewhere, so I feel like still progress. Yeah,

(15:57):
We're we're only gonna do a a We're gonna do
a a soft white terror in Taiwan, and we're going
to do a hard white terror and Guatemala, so you know.
And and like I think the thing with Check, right
is the reason she's not remembered as one of the
sort of like great historic role historical monsters. Like again,
this is a guy like killing twenty people in a
week is like Tuesday for Schenkai Check, and like the

(16:18):
only reason he's not remembered as this sort of like
monsters that he's overshadowed once again by like the sort
of the trio quad thing of Mouse, d Alan, Hitler
and Churchill. Yeah, there's a lot of people doing like
he killed a million people and that's that's pretty good numbers.
Any other he's probably got like yeah, I mean he's
probably got a million or four million, yeah, which and

(16:40):
that's solid. Look, don't get me wrong, solid numbers historically,
Like if you're if you're three four million dead, pretty good,
you're doing real good as a war criminal on a
historic level. But man, first half of the twentieth century,
that ship doesn't even get you on the board, like
you're like a like a C Lister. It's the Lebron
james Is of genocide are out in the streets and

(17:02):
those and there's there's a lot of them like this.
Fucking Scottie Pippen ass mass murder ain't kind of cut it?
How was that? Was that? Was that a good basketball
I mean it depends on who you're asking, but yes,
thank you, acceptable, but but very subjective. M I approved Scotti.
Pippen was the only other basketball player I could think of.

(17:27):
I assume he's not as good as Lebron chicks. I
mean he would say he is. But mm hmmm yeah,
so with Schenkai Scheck. But sorry, Bro, I mean, look,
the thing with Shanki Scheck is that Shanka Check has
the ability to shoot you if you don't agree with him.
I don't think Scottie Pippen has the ability to sort
of like mobilize an entire desquad apparatus to make everyone

(17:48):
think that he's better than Lebron James. No. No. The
only basketball player who had a solid death squad apparatus was,
of course, Shock, are we just going to see how
many basketball players? How was that? Remember? I liked it?
I mean it also thank you once again? Did work?
Thank you? I recently watched the new Adam Sandler basketball movie,

(18:08):
so I'm I'm I'm very about basketball. What was funny
about that? Sophie's like every third second in that movie,
somebody comes on screen, and you I can tell whenever
they come on that like, oh, that's a famous basketball guy,
and I'm supposed to have a reaction to the fact
that he's in this movie too, But it means nothing
to me. Every time. Yeah, you didn't have me there
to be like that's who that is, and you're going,

(18:29):
I don't care, and then blah blah blah blah. Yeah, yeah,
he's the best touchdown. Go Patriots, you were doing so well. Okay,
Also that's yeah, I don't ever say that in front
of Chris. By the way, Chris, I will, I will

(18:50):
go back to my town on these roots and give
me the dusk squad over. Yah. I don't know if
you knew this, Chris, but Chris really fucking hates the Patriots.
Well guess no one's gonna be doing a hole in one.
I don't know, We're let's get back to the store.
So Chickai Check in a lot of ways is he

(19:12):
is incredibly ahead of his time, you know. So so okay,
you can took a sort of like the periods of
anti communism, right, and you know, he has this problem
that he's working. He's working in a period of anti
communism in which the Nazis exist, and you know what,
while while the Nazis are around, the Nazis just sort
of like the top dog of anti communism. Although Chicki
Check was allied with the Nazis and like his son

(19:32):
was in the wine that was in the vine Mark
and he almost led like a He almost led like
not a division, but he almost led like troops into Poland.
The only reason he didn't was that he got pulled
back to Taiwan to like fight off the Japanese. Yeah,
but you know, I mean this is one of those
one of the areas of Nazi history that people don't
get enough, which is that like, while Nazis are pretty
much tied directly into like white supremacist ship today, the

(19:56):
o G Nazis were extremely willing to work with people
who who were of from a variety of different like
ethnic groups and including fight with them. There was an
Indian in Pakistani military unit in the s s because again,
racism changes over time like everything else and innovates. Yeah,
I mean, like that I talked about this before, but like, yeah,

(20:17):
there were there were Nazi military advisors, like leading Chinese
troops in the Battle of Shanghai, and it's it's very weird. Um,
but you know, Chikai check like he loses this war,
but but he really has the prototype for the sort
of second phase of anti communism, which is that if
you look at the k MT right, he it has

(20:38):
an incredibly centralized party, ideological party, apparatus. It has a
bunch of desk squads um, and it's funding itself as
an anti communistic treadorship via the drug trade. So he
he is doing he is like forty years ahead of
everyone who is doing anti communism. And so what two
of two of the two journalists whose book I'm going
to be using for a lot of this, uh gotten

(21:00):
John Lee Anderson, their true journalists who grew up in
Taiwan Uto the military educatorship, And they called this model
of anti communist party the death squad party for reasons
that we will see shortly. And yeah, they're they're, they're
they're they're going to be spending a lot of time
exporting this to other places. Now, what sort of interesting
is that Shankay Shaik was like hated by like every

(21:21):
American officer who had to interact with him to World
War Two, which like yeah, yeah, no no ship Like, yeah,
me too, buddy. I also hate this guy, but I'm
admittedly biased because his government tried to publicly execute one
of my great uncles. Okay, well what was your great
uncle doing though? How was he dressed? He was dressed
pretty well. Here, that's a long story. There's a long
story about what exactly happened there, but and he eventually did.

(21:44):
He did in fact survive. However, I'm still holding it
against him for trying to publicly execute him. Yeah. But
but you know it's weird. So what while the civil
war is going on and will wear to everyone hates him,
but the moment he loses the civil war, he becomes
the US celebri what's called the China Lobby in the
US where these like hardline anti communists whose thinks that

(22:04):
they want to like help Shenkai check in. He's just
incredible delusion that one day he's gonna like invade China
again and retake the homeland like and like he like
the government in Taiwan. It made my mom, who was
like five, singing songs about how they were going to
reclaim them other land one day. It was just good. Yeah,
this place is like like it is a just sort

(22:28):
of incredibly neurotic, like sort of totelitarian military candorship. Yeah,
I feel I mean, first off, squad goals. Um. But yeah,
that that that that sounds like it could be a
problem to live under. Yeah, but you know, and of course,
like the people who backed and of course are the

(22:49):
best and brightest of the people in American politics. You
have h Douglas MacArthur. Oh, yeah, one right, this is
this is fresh after he attempted to start a nuclear
war in order to distract from the fact that he
had completely fucked the war in Korea. Yep, uh uh,
there's a There's another another very famous person you probably know,

(23:11):
Joseph McCarthy, better known for other works. Yeah, oh, god,
of course. Yeah, Joe McCarthy, slick Joe, known for great guy,
nothing bad. Yeah, great, and and and so so that
the KMT and their American allies started like looking for
other sort of like fanatical anti communists, like a listed
their cause, and this search eventually leads them to the

(23:32):
formation of the Bold Anti Communist League. Um. One of
the people who they find is Perk junk Key, who
is the build Well okay, he's the second military dictator
of South Korea. And I keep saying we're gonna do
an episode about him one day, and I promise will.
But there's there's so much wild ass, especially in this
period Korean history, that people, yeah this guy states don't

(23:52):
know funk all about. It's really good, real good ship.
This guy like this is a guy who so he
fought for Japanese in World War Two and okay, so
like there are a lot of Japanese people who who
were forced to like conscripted into fighting the Japanese army. Yeah,
that's the way Perk Chunky is not one of those guys.

(24:12):
He fought for the Japanese Empire because he loved like
from from pure ideology. He was like, you look at
the Japanese Empire. I was like, oh, should I love this?
And you know, like he is, he's incredibly fascists, like
this is the guy who knows Suka Kishi talked to
you after the war and was like, whoa buddy, you
gotta tone the fascism shipped down a little bit, like
it's it's it's wild and and you know, but like

(24:33):
like just okay, utterly inexplicably, this is this is the
second like second Communist decision in this episode that I'm
just like, what are you guys doing? They the Communist
let him join the Communist Party, and this is just
baffling to me, Like here is a dude who literally
fought for the Japanese on purpose, and you know, the
Communy Party looks at him I was like, what should

(24:53):
we do with him? Boss? I know, let's let him
in the party. And so he like immediately gets arrested
and just instantly like the fastest ratting I've ever seen
in my entire life, just like rats on his comrades
to the government, which like like okay, so I I
am in principle against snitching. I also like really don't

(25:13):
understand what the communists were expecting. What's gonna happen here?
Like you you brought in a guy who fought for
the Japanese army on purpose. Of course he was instantly
going to betray you, like really baffling stuff. Yeah, I
mean the Korean communists, but so in he cused the
governments and he's the guy who like really fully brings

(25:36):
Korea on board. But this whole sort of like well
anti Communist league thing. He starts sending like generals and
like k c I a guys to the league. Um.
The movies are also a big part of this. I'm
not gonna talk about that here because I have a lot. Yeah,
go listen to a lot and then make your own
electronically fired blunderbuss um. Yeah, that's that's the official stance

(25:57):
of this show. I look, I just they deserve it.
So the other BEJA group that that's involved in the
creation of the World Anti Communist League is called the
Anti Bullshwit Block of Nations. To the a b N
and the a BIEN are a bunch of people who
they're united by like two things. One is that they
really hate the Soviets. The second thing the united by

(26:18):
is that they did the Holocaust. So yeah, the the
a b N was was founded by a guy named
Yaroslav Stetsko, who I think if if you've been like
looking into Ukrainian history in the last like you know here,
you probably you might know who this guy is. He's
the guy who was chosen by Stepan Bandera to be
the second in command of a bay formed organization of

(26:40):
Ukrainian nationalists and that didn't wind up going anywhere. Oh
yeah no it look it completely stalled out. They never
ended up fighting. Are fine, everything's great, look like they
they did not end up fighting for the Nazis in
Operation Barbarossa. Uh he Stetzico does not walk into the
city of Levolve along side a bunch of guys in

(27:00):
the fine mark Um and immediately start doing the Holocaust. Uh,
none of this ever happens. Uh, they didn't kill seven
thousand people in like I think, I think a week
most most of you were honestly compared to kaishek numbers.
That's that's rookie. Yeah, well, I mean it's weird because like, okay, so,
like in any other group of people, like this guy is,

(27:24):
you know, a world historical monster. He's kind of on
the B team in terms of like the people in
this episode, maybe the C team. So the thing that
he does is so he gets into low Off and
he immediately declares like a new independent like Ukrainian state
with him as a leader. And I'm just gonna read
from the speech that he gave when he's declaring this
independent Ukrainian state, the Ukrainian State will corrupt, will closely

(27:47):
cooperate with Great National Socialist Germany, which under the leadership
of Adolf Hitler, will create a new order in Europe
and throughout the world. The Ukrainian Army will fight together
with the Allied German Army for the new order in
the world. Well, it didn't quite happen, um, So that's yeah,
but I mean, well, yeah, it doesn't. Never choos into
one of the Nazis. Lose two was that he instantly
gets arrested because the Nazis were like, hey, you guys

(28:09):
didn't tell us that you were going to declare an
independent state. Like what do you know? We don't We
don't want there to be a Ukraine. Yeah, and this
is something we're in agreement with the Russians about, Actually
we don't want this country to exist. Yeah, and and
you know, so, so you just start in prison. Assico
like does like after after the war, he will claim
that like he was put in a concentration camp and

(28:29):
the Nazis like persecuted him and like this is kind
of true, but like okay, so the thing, the thing
that they put him under is called quote honorary arrest,
and he's like he's in like the nice prison and
they let him out like a few times, like during
this while is going on, so we can coordinate more stuff,
and they let him out just like entirely because the

(28:50):
war is going so badly, they were like, screwt, let's
throw the Ukrainians at the at the Russians. And he
and Bendera formed this thing called the the Ukrainian Insurgent Army,
which fights the Red me and they also do some
like incredibly half ass fighting of the Nazis, which was
like largely as best I could tell, this largely seems
to be so they could like say that we fought
the Nazis. Um I'm gonna'm gonna read a passage here

(29:12):
from the book Transnational Anti Communism in the Cold War
about what happened next at the end of ninety three
in the forest of Oh God, I don't know how
to pronounce this, Joe Timir Gasalia, the west part of
the Western part of Ukraine, these same Ukrainian nationalists held
the first clandestine Congress of the Anti Bolshevik Block of
Nations the a b N, creating at the same time

(29:33):
the Ukrainian National Army the u p A. The u
p A then took part in attacks on the retreating
Fine Mark while at the same time harassing the Red Army,
the Communist Partisans and Jewish citizens due to their suspected
Communist sympathies. The up A, consisting of around seventy thousand guerillas,
were joined by fragments of the s s Is Ukraine, Belarusian,
Russian and Cozak battalions, as well as Hungarian, Romanian, Soviet,

(29:55):
Baltic and Georgian deserters. Now the author is being like
a bit you kind the u p A here the
main reason that they are quote hurt that they quote
harassed Jewous citizens because like an enormous number of these
are just people are just like fanatical anti Semites. But
this is the birth of the anti bullshet block of nations. UM.
And again like let's go this. This is a guy

(30:16):
who fought for the Nazis. He probably has the lowest
body counts of the next like four groups I'm going
to talk about. UM. Also in the anti Bullshevik block
of nations something called the Croatian Liberation Movements UM. The
Creation Liberation Movement was led by a guy named Stefan
Heffer who formed it alongside Anti Pavlovic, who is the

(30:37):
founder of the Eustacia. Now the Sasha are a. There
there a creation fascist organization that fought alongside the Nazis,
and we're giving control of a new sort of Creatian
fascist puppet state with Anton Pavlovic as as its leader. UM.
Here here's from the Holocaust Museum about what happened next
at a concentration camp called judosovic I did learn how

(30:57):
to pronounce it and then immediately forgot. There's a lot
of concentration camps. Yeah, well this is this is the
third largest camp in Europe. Um. So between this is
the yeah, this is from the holocaustmus album. Between its
establishment in nineteen forty one and it's evacuation in April,
n Croad authorities a bird hundreds of thousands of people

(31:18):
at Josephec. Among the victims were between forty five thousand
and fifty two thousand Serbian residents of the so called
Independent State of Croatia, between twelve thousand and twenty thousand Jews,
between fifteen thousand and twenty thousand Roma, between five thousand
and twelve thousand ethnic Croats and Muslims who are political
opponents of the regime. The Croad authorities murdered between three

(31:38):
hundred and twenty thousand and three hundred and forty thousand
Ethnics Serb residents of Croatian Bosnia. During the period of
Eustachia rule, more than thirty thousand Croatian Jews were killed
either in Croatia or at Auschwitz. And to put this
into perspective, that is over seventy of like all Croatian
Jews who are killed by the Usasia during the Holocaust.

(31:59):
And the thing about this camp is that, like unlike
the rest of the concentration camps in Europe, they don't
have gas chambers. They are they are doing all of
these killings by hand. And it's not just that they're
doing this by hands. Um, I'm gonna read this a
thing from the truth, I mean, yeah, yeah. The late

(32:20):
josh Alamani, who served as h as presidents of the
Belgrade Jewish community, described Josephic as barbaric, saying that the
murders were predominantly carried out manually. Very seldom did they
use bullets, he said, because they believe the victims didn't
merit it. Al Mooney described some of the Eustace's methods,
which included cutting the eyes out of their victims and

(32:41):
slitting their throats, throwing life prisoners into brick fursts, and
poisoning children. And you know, you've talked a lot about
on this show about how the Nazis, like, we're trying
to execute use by firing squad and they couldn't psychologically
handle it. And that's you know, that's why they with
the gas chambers, the Eustachi can do this, Yeah, like
then they keep doing for the entire war. Yeah, the

(33:02):
there's I mean, one of the many stories about the
Holocaust hasn't told enough is that like the actual German
uh ss were not nearly the most brutal war criminals
on the Nazi side, Um, the Eustache fucking nightmare people.
And there's like if you look at what's happening in
the fucking Balkans during this period, if I'm like, what's

(33:22):
going down and what becomes Serbia and Bosnia and how
the genocides are being conducted there by Nazi allies, Like
it's a lot of the same thing, which is like
we'll just we'll just strangle people, will just cut their
heads off by the thousands, Like we don't need waste
bullets on their ship, We don't need gas chambers. Like
the the very as is often the case in wars,
like the nastiest fucking ship happens in these these places

(33:45):
like the Balkans and chunks of Eastern Europe that um,
and with soldiers from those areas, where like there's there's
already when the war hits kind of a heightened level
of acceptance of violence just because of ship in the
recent past, and like the the most nightmare stories come
from a lot of those those places kind of on

(34:05):
the fringes of the Nazi power. Yeah, and like like
these like the Saal like gets to the the point where
like the there there there there is they're like their
instances were like the Nazis dis banned their units because
they're like what they're doing. They're like hey, guys, like, yeah,
you're a bit well, I mean there's a thing a
number of things because like again it's bad for morale,
like Nazis. Nazis are complaining about what some of these

(34:26):
units are doing. Yeah, this isn't what soldiers do, right.
Um is the attitude some folks have, like it's it's
it's a mess um. Yeah. And so Stephan HiFER who
who she's going to become an important world anti communist
leader and a member of the sort of event it's
good block of nations because he seems like a good guy.
He was the governor general of Barana County when in

(34:48):
the new Nazi Croatian State and uh Anton Pavo Vick.
He was again the founder of the Eustachi is the
founder one of the founders of the Croatian Liberation Movement,
which is the Croatian representative at the a b N.
It's great, um have careers, great Robert, is it products
and services? Let me tell you confusingly, we are sponsored

(35:14):
by the Eustachi UM. A lot of people will say
why are you sponsored by the Eustachi And I'll say
you should check out their promo code. Are we doing, Sophie,
no words, I've got nothing not not happy about that.
Well that just that happened. Here's ads uh, yes, all right.

(35:48):
So meanwhile, the Romanian delegation of of the a b
N is a bunch of people from the Iron Guard,
who is a Romanian fascist organization that did this in
a fascion s up raising in n A mob of
several hundred attack the Sephardic Temple, American correspondent lay White
reported at the time, smashing its windows with stones and

(36:09):
battering down its doors with lengths of timber. All objects
of ritual prayer books, shaws, talmoods, Torah's altar, benches and
tapestries were carried outside and piled into a heap which
is soaked in gasoline. Instet of fire. A number of
Jewish pedestrians were herded together and forced to dance in
a circle around the bonfire. When they dropped an exhaustion,
they were doused and gasoline and burned alive. And I

(36:31):
cut the description off. It gets way worse after that, Like, yeah,
if if doused in gasoline and burned alive is like
that before we really put our foot on the gas.
It gets like they are All I will say about
that is they are incredibly they are incredibly specific. And
how they use their anti Semitism to kill people, it's like,

(36:53):
it's it's stuff you couldn't It's stuff you couldn't write
a solutione serial killer doing. Because yeah, and and this
is this is uh, this is the Romanian delegation to
the a b N. Belarus's delegation. Delegation is called the
Belarusan Liberation Movements. Its representative as a guy named Dmitri Kasmovich,
who was appointed by the Nazis as the chief of

(37:14):
police of Smallnesk, where he exterminated using communists. Yeah, and
he also joined an S S commando unit to fight
the Soviets and was eventually smuggled out of a refugee
camp by British intelligence and worked for the American Army.
It's great, and and yeah he hels. So he founded
this entire thing as a way to spy on the
Soviets for the US. And at this point we should

(37:35):
mention that like this entire like just literal group of
people who did the Holocaust is funded by both the
US and the UK. UM. The a b N is
like all over American politics, like they successfully lobby the
U s they're doing into doing this thing that like
I'm pretty sure by the time this comes out, Biden
will have also done his version of it, which is

(37:55):
called a Captive Nation Week, which is like all presidents
still do this to this day. It's supposed to be
this thing that like honors nations held captive by authoritarian governments.
That's nice, it's the it's the it's the political equivalent
of the like slapping a drowning handmade there you go,
ords Well, and I also like I really want to
like just take a moment to appreciate that the United

(38:17):
States government, which is a state that literally holds hundreds
of indigenous nations captive and occupies their land, declares cast
in suations weak, that sends six hundreds and it doesn't
sound like the America I learned about in Texas. Yeah no,
and again like they do this become because some dip
ships from the Eustachi told them seventy years ago. Well,

(38:40):
I'm glad that our honor of captive nations is the
honor of the captive nations of racists in particular. That's good,
it's it's it's all. It's also fun because if you
look at the declarations of this the only states that
are like ever mentioned our states that can be like
sohow vaguely tied to communism, So like you know, they'll
talk about like we need to these guys had a
horror on for Rhodesia. Oh yeah yeah, and even Biden.

(39:03):
Biden released like his statement last year it talks about
like it talks about like Nick Argua talks about like Cuba.
It literally no mention whatsoever of Saudi Arabia, which again
in in my lifetime has invaded what at least two,
possibly three countries on top of Saudi Arabia. That that
doesn't sound like the country that Joe Biden would fist bump.

(39:24):
Come on, so did the a b N starts working?
Joe Biden fists bumping a Neustaschi militant. That's that's good.
Reagan got pretty close, like did get close? Like Reagan
did get close? Um, I don't know. Biden is a
fifty fifty on that ship. The only thing he's consistently

(39:46):
good on is hating the British, which I respect. So
the A b N starts talking with Shankai Shack through
a bunch of contacts, and they helped train taiwan secret police,
and they also helped set up Radio Free Asia, which
is incredibly fun. Um. Now, no contact between the A
B and the Taiwanese government leads to a nineteen sixty

(40:09):
six beating of check checks Asian People's Anti Communist League
and South South Korea with representatives sort of the whole
global anti comunist when it comes together to do something
and a hundred and seventy representatives some sixty nations show up,
and what's it? Just think about this first, like, what's it?
The interesting thing here is this isn't all fascists. The
very first meeting where they're trying to figure out who,

(40:30):
what is going to happen? She's gonna be in this?
There's like there were like social democrats. You show up
to this there are like regular conservatives and all of
these people immediately get run out. Um there's there's this
group called the Assembly of Captive European Nations who like
they're not like great people, but they also like didn't
literally well actually can't verify they didn't literally do the Holocaust,
but they are they aren't literally the leaders of the

(40:51):
EUSTASHI and they try to become like not not literally
running a group so bad that the SS was occasionally alike, guys, yeah,
like my need to pump them breaks the bar for
anti communism is like like the bar of like how
bad you have to be for the anti communists not
to accept you is like really really really low, and

(41:14):
like these people keep tripping over it, and you know,
and these guys are like you know there they cannot
cannot emphasize enough that the dudes we're talking about are
quite literally people that like Heinrich Himler would read reports
about what they were doing and need to have a
stiff drink. Yeah, like it's and and these guys, you know,
so so the the sort of moderates try to become
the delegations of me in Europe and the a bi

(41:36):
N just like runs them out because the a BN
is already like tight with the time when he's in
the time when he's are you know, one of the
major sort of power blocks here. And the result of
this is that you know, from the formative meeting of
the word Anti Communist League, this is just going to
be a fascist organization. And you know, okay, so we've
now met two of the three sort of main power
blocks in the WAL Anti Communist League. Right, there's the
there's the East Asian blocks centered on Taiwan and South Korea,

(41:58):
and they also they have support from like South Vietnam
and like Singapore and the Philippines. But yeah, and the
core they're sort of type one in South Korea. There's
there's the a b N Fascist in Europe who are
again the USACE in the Iron Guard and like their people.
And now it's time to meet Group number three. This
is the Latin American Anti Communist Confederation or cal um

(42:19):
CAL is originally a frind group for a group called
Los Tecos who are a fascist death squad from the
Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Mexican fascist. Oh yeah, well these
guys are great, guy. So so the modern iteration of
Techos was founded by a guy named Carlos Quaestra Gallardo,
who was a Mexican Nazi who was doing something in

(42:40):
Berlin ju O War two. We don't know what. There
are various rumors, some of them including him like being
part of the of the group who like decides in
the final solution, like we don't know. There's there's rumors
use Hitler secretary, Like it's very unclear she's doing something.
He's you know, woe Hitler. How hiring people from all backgrounds. Yeah, yeah,

(43:02):
well look if these guys stand and integration focused, king, yeah,
all you have to do is be like so unfathomably
anti Semitic that like even the other anti Semites eventually
are like, you guys are too much. You can't say
this out loud, like and and so so he survives
the war and he goes back to Mexico to help

(43:23):
help establish this like network of like fascist Mexican priests
who hide people from like the Iron Guard and other
like fascist collaborators. And these guys are like they're like, yeah, yeah,
there's like the Liberation theology priests and then there's they
start killing very quick. Yeah, yeah, and these guys are
like they're convinced that the u N as a Jewish conspiracy.
They're like they raved constantly about Marxist, the Zionist and

(43:45):
the Freemasons. And they also think that Vatican too, with
the Church tax, like a bit to the left is
a good enough reason to just literally start killing Catholic priests,
even though again all of these people Catholics a bit
to the left. All they did was changed the fucking
liturgy to be in English not Laden. Yeah, it was
like this is this is all these people just go
like there's an entire group like this. There's a lot

(44:07):
of like Francoists who like sort of go eight like
it's just like yeah, just one of my favorite things
about Catholicism is when you get like these Vatican too
conspiracies where the Church is literally like, well, our religions
dying because nobody understands what the funk is going on
in these in these uh in services and stuff. Perhaps

(44:27):
we could slightly modernize it so that people understand what's
being said. These guys think the pope is Jewish. They
literally think this it is classic Jewish person, the Pope. Yeah,
it's like it's this whole thing. And so the Tachos
are like, they're a des squad, right, they kill people students, Um,
And the league comes to them and are like, hey,

(44:48):
you guys are at the Simas. You guys are squads, Like,
go find other anti comunist squads in Latin American and
recruittims and we can talk to them. And they do,
like these guys are literally their football talent scouts. But
for death squads, well that's good. I mean, look, you
know how I feel about death squads, Chris Um. If
you're not getting the good to like, somewhere out there

(45:09):
is the Lebron James of killing a lot of people
and pushing their bodies into a crudely dug pit, and
if you don't find him, you know another death squad
is going to get him. And then you're not going
to win the Sophie, what is the basketball Award for
good at basketball? M Yeah, you're not gonna win the
m v P. So yeah, look you got it. Well,

(45:29):
the the every thing against this is very important, right,
it's so proud of himself. You don't so cool. Thank you, Sophie.
It's about time you took an interest in one of
my hobbies. I'm learning. It's real Heisman Trophy Day for
the death squad people. Okay, I'm gonna turn this to
a baseball metaphor, which is that, Okay, so the everything

(45:50):
is happening here, right, is that you have you have
to build up your roster, right, and you have to
you have to have to build up. You have to
build up your sort of like your your minor league system.
You have to do this that you can train other squads.
And these guys are about to become the fucking nineties
Mariners of building up death squads. They have they have
a bullpin so deep they can fucking like they can.
They can kick out literal Hall of Fame power hitters

(46:11):
because they don't need more hitting. They have so many
death squads. And there's the wade Bogs of death squads
in this period, by which I mean, who is drinking
seventy beers on a flight from I don't know Stockholm
to spelensk Oh What is this guy named Joemo? God?
I can't remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that guy, hilariously kind

(46:34):
of isn't gonna come up. And there there's a lot
of people who did a lot of assassinations, Who are
in the who are in the league, who we're not
going to talk about because they're like just d listers. Yes, yes,
there's so many. So the thing about the c L
is that they they're very quietly one of the most
important organizations in the history of the Latin American Cold War,
and almost nobody's ever heard of them. But one of

(46:55):
the things that they do is in so these meetings,
right you get up on a DOES squad showing up
to it, and you get a bunch of countries like
sending their intelligence services to these meetings to go like
talk about with other countries until right wing anti commuist
intelligence services. And in one of these meetings in nineteen
seventy three, the dictatorships of Brazil and Paraguay agreed to
exchange information and sort of like coordinate security measures to

(47:15):
the c i L. Now Paraguay at this point is
ruled by Alfredo Strassner, who is one of the world
anti communistly biggest supporters in the man like this guy
like personally hosts several world anti communist legue conferences. Um.
He also like he sold eight year olds into sex slavery.
Um he like the worst thing that he does is

(47:39):
he does this genocide against the business at shape population. Um,
I'm going to read from the Washington Post neteen seventies seven.
And by the way, when when I read this thing,
you have to understand this. This is from nineteen. There
were like twenty more years of the genocide that are
gonna happen after this quote of the chap population living
in Paraguay since in nineteen have since disappeared. Wow. Yeah,

(48:03):
that's pretty bad. Yeah. And you know where did they go? Well, okay,
they got raped, tortured and murdered by settlers who are
doing a genocide and to take their land. There were
like there are these a Chay hunters whose job is
literally to go out and kidnap a Cha people and
like force them to live on these like reservations quote
unquote on their farms. Like they're doing slave raids or
selling children. They're forcing people stop. Yes, no whatever does

(48:28):
like this, This goes on. This goes on for the
like the entire thirty years of like the Straws and
entertatorship and no, no, not seventy three. Strawson starts coordinating
his police depression with the Brazilian dtatorship to the CLUM.
The next year, the CLS Coordinating Council meets Rio Decian
narrow Um. The Coordinating Council, there's representatives as representatives from Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Columbia,

(48:52):
l Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico, Paraguay, Uruguay, and also has a
bunch of Cuban exiles. Um okay, so you know what
what what are they doing there? Um? This is from
the book Predatory states. The purpose of the meeting was
to receive information and to exchange experiences because starting communists
and pro communists in order to adapt methods that could
be applied throughout the continent. It was important because one

(49:13):
of the main resolutions sought to establish system to exchange
confidential information among member nations. Now, people who know you're
sort of like Cold War Latin American history are starting
to perk up right now, because if you studied like
this stuff, that list sounds really familiar and it should be. Uh,
there's a couple of allies stone into the list, but
that is the those are the countries that are involved

(49:34):
in Operation Condor, and that meeting of of the Waranti
Communist League's Latin American affiliate. The c L was one
of the first steps towards setting up the Condoor system.
The next year, there there's like a I guess you
called a more official meeting, but there's a meeting of
intelligence services UM from Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and

(49:55):
Uruguay to sort of expand cooperation further. And you know
this turns into Condor. So all right, what what what
is Operation condor? Um? The last two quotes that I
sort of pulled are from this book called called Predatory States,
Operation Condor and Covert War in Latin America. It's it's
a very good book. I reck when people read it.
Um it was. It was written by a Long Island
University political science professor named j. Purtise McSherry. And I'm

(50:17):
I'm gonna like use the intro that she uses to this,
which is describing what happened to a guy named Martin Almada,
who's the guy who rises to forward to the book
just to like to give you a sense of like
what this act stuff actually looks like. In Martin Almada
was dragged out of his house in Paraguay in the
middle of the night by our friend Alfredo Strassner, after

(50:39):
which she was tortured for thirty days for quote intellectual
terrorism and intellectual terrorism. Well, so they bring him in
and they're trying to figure out what he did, right,
And the only thing this guy did was he was
like a leader in a teachers union and he was
like using the teaching methods of public fieri. And so
for this they art for him. They forced his wife

(51:01):
to listen to his screams over the phone for ten days,
and then they told her that he had been killed,
at which point his wife dies from a heart attack.
And yeah, story, yeah at all. And the everthing is
interesting about Okay, so in some sense, right, like this
is just this is a thing that military dictatorships do.

(51:22):
But those wacky military dictatorships all okay, yeah yeah, but
but you know, like normally, when you get kidnaped by
a dictatorship, right, there's a bunch of soldiers and like
spooks from your country, right when this guy always been
my experience when I've been kidnapped by a military dictatorship. Yeah,
it's it's one. It's one, you know, it's the kadership
in one country. But but when when this guy gets kidnapped.

(51:43):
There's military attaches from Argentina, from Brazil, from Bolivia, from Chile,
and from Uruguay. And eventually Amantic gets released from prison
after like this giant hunger strike and the huge and
emazz international Campaig and he starts trying to figure out
what the funk happened to him, And it turns out
that Martin Amat and his wife have become very early
victims of Operation Condor. Oh they're ground trailblazers. Yeah. And

(52:08):
do you know who else were victims of Operation Condor?
No won the products and services that support this podcast?
Exactly zero of those that they almost that's who supports
our podcast. Man if if only the if only they
used actually had been the target of Operation Condor, we
would all live in a better world. No no, But
instead they're they're they're big into the podcast game. And uh,

(52:32):
you know, there are major backers of the Island where
we'll let you hunt children for for for sport and
for food and for food. It's unethical just to hunt
kids for trophies, you know, gotta cook them risk. Oh god, Sophie,
that's what the ad, that's the a I'm just reading

(52:54):
the ad as it was sent to us by the
and the Ustache people. Okay is the probo code with
how many ms? Good? That's at least nine ms. Yeah, okay,
here's the ads. Oh boy, we're back. No, no segue.

(53:26):
I'm immediately just going to read a description of ever
do that voice again? That was uncomfortable? Please continue? No, Sophie, Sophie, Sophie.
Hey did it? Are you good? How's it going great? Chris? Please?
The Conjuror system consisted of three levels. The first was

(53:46):
mutual cooperation among military intelligence services to coordinate political surveillance
of targeted dissidence and exchange intelligence information. The second was
covert action, a form of offensive unconventional warfare in which
the role of the predator remains can see Old multinational
Condoor squadrons carried out covert cross border operations to detain,
disappear exiles and transfer them to their countries of origin

(54:09):
where most discipline or permanently certain. Most secret level was
Condoor's assassination capability, known as Phase three. Under Phase three,
special teams of assassins re member countries reformed to travel
worldwide to eliminate subversive enemies. Phase three was aimed at
political leaders, especially feared for their potential to mobilize wild
opinion or organized broad opposition to the military states. So

(54:32):
what condor is right? It is a bunch of countries.
It's a Chile, Paraguay, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Ecuador and later
Peru working together to form just like multinational desk squads
and using them to like they have these squads and
kidnapping teams, and they using them to target like internal
enemies and subversives, who it turns out is just literally
anyone doesn't support the government. Um, I'm going to read

(54:53):
a quote from an operative of DINA, which is Pinochet's
National Intelligence Directorate, which is like they're like the secret police,
but also the CIA. Oh good, they're they're great, and
by great. Yeah. One team to operatives explained DINA strategy
as follows. First the aim was to stop terrorism, then

(55:15):
possible extrememists we're targeted, and later though she might be
converted into extremists. Similar language is used in seven by
Argentine General bitter Co Saint Jean when he said, first
we kill all the subversives, then we kill all their collaborators,
then their sympathizers, then all those who remain indifferent. Ah um,

(55:36):
maybe take notes on that. People who remain indifferent. Yeah,
I'm gonna kill you too, like unless you are any
active supporter of the regime. And also you never kiss
anyone off. Ever, somehow miraculously they're gonna kill you. Two
it's great. And and this this works on two levels. Um.
On the one side, there's like there's these internal persia's
right which which are aided by intelligence from other condrac countries.

(55:58):
So for example, in night seventy, Argentinian army like stages
a coup and take control of the country and they
start was known as the Dirty War, which the government
disappears thirty thousand people who become known as a disaparsidos.
One of the fun tactics of the Argentinian Army and
their des squads was to keep pregnant women alive just
long enough to force them to have their babies and
then kill them and steal the babies. Which okay, that

(56:22):
doesn't sound like good behavior. Yeah and and and you know, okay,
all of these guys are right wing Catholics. And I'm
not even going to bother spelling out the comparison to
fourth verses in the US. I will leave that metaphor
as an exercise for the listener. And these killings were
done like part Partly they're done directly by the state,
and partly they're done by states supported DES squads. In Argentina,

(56:42):
that des squad is called, uh, the Argentine Anti Communist
Alliance or Triple A. Here here's McSherry. Oh, that is
the same Triple A that helps me when I need
my cartel. You know, I genuinely cancel I I think
I think the quote I'm about to read there they're
making a Triple A joke. But I'm on really sure.
I'm gonna say yes. Just based on the long lines

(57:03):
that you have to stand in that place, I buy
it in. In November nineteen seventy three, the Triple A
detonated a bomb in the car of Senator Kipelato your goryan,
that's a that's a gnarly name of this the Union
Civica Radical, which is hilariously a moderate party, um the

(57:23):
first claimed terror, it's first claimed terrorist attacked. The senator
was severely wounded. He was the victim of another bomb
in nineteen and was tortured and interrogated by army officers
in that year. They told him, quote, you want to
know about the Triple A. Well, we're the Triple A.
We put the bomb in your car. Oh well, that's
nice of them to say, so. Yeah. Um, it's also

(57:44):
worked oning. So the Triple A. They get kind of
absorbed into the Argentina and military, but they kind of
still operate under under this it's I don't know, they're
they're there. They after the military que and seventy six.
They're more inside the state than they are outside of it.
But they also host the nineteen eight meeting of the
c A L Buenos Aires after they were semi absorbed.
They're also heavily involved in the Wanti Communist League. And

(58:06):
we're going to come back to the nineteen eight meeting
because it also was very important, but not only for
the next episode. For now, we should talk about like
how CONDO actually worked a bit more. Um McSherry describes
it as as a paris statal organization in that it's
technically inside or tied to the state, but it operates
completely in secret, and it has it has it has

(58:27):
you know, it has a unified command structure that involves
operatives from you know, intelligence services from the military. There's cops,
there's right wing civilians and paramilitaries. But again, like the
secrecy of this means that even other parts of the
military don't know if they exist. UM, as we've seen
with Triple A condor makes the use of paramilitary sometimes
like folding them directly in the shade of command. Sometimes
they just like basically do contract killings out to other

(58:50):
like fascist parabilitaries. UM and their whole command structure remains
entirely unregistered. It is by its very nature outside of
the sort of bounds the state bureaucracy. Everything is unbarked, untagged,
secret or black ops. Its officers are commissioned literally as
special agents. It operates as a sort of like a
secret parallel state alongside the official state. And I want

(59:12):
to pause here for a second to to think about
the extent to which American and British pop culture is
entirely centered around valorizing this stuff. Like pop culture is
completely obsessed with secret agents. We have there's twenty five
Bond movies. There are there are five different Call of
Duty Black Ops games, right, Like the last Black Ops
game is literally you working for Ronald Reagan to do

(59:33):
stuff for the CIA, and but it's like, okay, if
you think about what this stuff is, right, all of
this black ops stuff, it's it's this you know, you look,
you look, you look at the sort of pures expression
of it in Latin America. It's just that it's literally
just this this tyrratnical parallel state use job it is
to kill subversives, and it's the descaad machine. And it's like,
this is our entire pop culture is about making everyone

(59:55):
think the deast squad machine is cool. Well, but the
death squad machine this drunk all the time and that's
pretty neat. Yeah, but here's the thing I went. I
went to university, and I therefore I therefore know that
you can be drunk all the time without being a
desk squad. We had very different college experiences. That's a

(01:00:18):
story for another day, am I right? I mean, immittedly
we are on our like third college paramilitary in this episode,
So that's right, that's right. Just like, how don't do it?
John Sportsman? You were doing so well. We were so
proud of you. It was like four for four touchback,

(01:00:41):
first down, three pointers, nailed it, nailed it. So all right,
we now have a picture we we have. We have
an incredibly lackluster picture of the nature of basketball. We
have a better picture of the internal structure of Condor.
But the thing is Condra's multinational operation and if which
part of you is doing what the modern CIA would

(01:01:01):
call it extraordinary renditions, And this means that there's just
like kidnapping dissidents who would, for example, fled from chilea
to Paraguay and then you bring them back to Chile,
that you torture and execute them. And as this program
you know, goes on the start, they start assassinating people
like all over the world. And these people, you know,
they're not just getting murdered, right, they're getting horribly tortured.
The bodies that people find are like heavily mutilated, Their

(01:01:22):
stab wounds have like burns. Um that the Argentinian classic
is just dropping people both dead and live, out of helicopters,
and well, at least they're not discriminating between dead or alive.
That's true. Everybody gets dropped out of a helicopter. That's quality. Yeah,
And you know, and the other thing is that they're
not just killing like completely random like nobody or like

(01:01:45):
you know, incredibly minor activist. They're killing people who are
like very high profile and very famous, like in Sei
they killed the former president of Bolivia, Juan Jose Torres
and Buenos Aires um And you know, one of the
favorite tactics that they use for sort getting away with
this stuff is that they'll kill a bunch of people
and then blame blame it on the left murdering each other.
But like, that's not actually enough to cover up we

(01:02:07):
killed the president of Bolivia. Well, we killed the president
of Italy too, but nobody has a problem with that.
We're gonna go we will, we will get to the
actually we I will mention it and then pointedly not
explain it next episode. That's good. That's good. More about
the assassination of the fucking prime Minister of Italy. Just

(01:02:27):
listened to Alex Jones show. The next time Steve is
back on because he's the one who did it. You
can hear from an act well, okay, okay, to be
fo Wars contributor, the guy who killed the prime minister.
To be fair, all right, there are a lot of
people who were involved in killing the prime minister. We
cannot give Steve, but the whole credit from the team
was inlved It's not just Magic and Biggy Tom Cruise,

(01:02:52):
someone who was who was else on the team, Sophie,
are you trying to make a Magic Johnson Larry Bird reference?
Right now? That's the one Larry Bird Lawrence Bird could
be fair. I'm okay with you fucking up his name,
Magic Johnson and Larry Flint. Um again, very okay with
you sucking up his name. Go for it, um, whatever
you want. Good, all right, back to the game. So, okay,

(01:03:17):
you know, it is incredible, Like it is so obvious
that like people that like, there's something going on here
that's assassinating people that like even even journalists are just
starting to write articles that are like, yeah, there's probably
something going on here. And so Robert, you might be
asking yourself, what is the United States, the champion of
democracy and human rights and the leader of the free world,
doing about a bunch of des squads murdering anyone who

(01:03:39):
doesn't actively supportabilitary dictatorship. And the answer is, uh, okay.
Sometimes they write a few strongly worded letters. They do
this like twice. They write a few strongly worded letters.
Mostly they do nothing. And then the other part of
the time they're actively helping them do it, so to
get a sense of like the level of immunity that
Condor had from the Vieosco from um the political counselor

(01:04:01):
of of the U s Embassy and a equador in
sorry in Uruguay, you know, did the right thing for once,
and he he he and a. Basically, they figure out
that a Brazilian labor leader is about to be like
kidnapp and assassinated by these guys, and he helps this
guy escape and in retaliation, a bunch of dudes and
ski masks grabbed him off the street and broke every

(01:04:21):
vertebrae in his neck and back. And again, this guy
works for the US embassy and they broke every single
vertebrae in his neck and upper back and the US
does nothing, and yeah, what what would you expect us
to do? You know, you know, you know, Okay, So
like every once in a while, you'll do one of
the things that happens with the rand contrent rights that

(01:04:42):
they like kind of they accidentally get a d A
agent killed and after that the US just goes like
absolute ape shit, like it's just like okay, but this
guy is an embassy guy. You'd think that like if
you kill if you like like almost kill a guy
from your embassy, like something would happen, but like, no, no,
it doesn't happen at all, absolutely not. And and you know,
speaking of the government doing nothing. In the nineteen seventies,

(01:05:03):
six agents of the Chilean National Intelligence Director at working
with right wing Cuban exiles from the c i L
car bomb and man named Orlando Letier in Washington, d
c um Lydia had been the socialist foreign minister under
a end and he's just like implacable foe of Pinochet
and the chilenge a like yeah, what does kill him?
And so you know they do it, right, they just
they kill him and like it literally in Washington, d C.

(01:05:27):
With a car bomb, and the guy who does it
is an American Diana operative named Michael town Lee. And
he serves five years in prison and then gets FBI
witness protection. So there are there are an enormous number
of people in this country who have served more time
in prison for literally having weed than this guy is
serving for doing a car bomb assassination in Washington, d C. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:05:51):
it's it's it's it's great and this, This is like
dream the Carter administration do it. Nothing happens nothing. I
think it's your the Carter Maan, I'm pretty sure, yes,
many six. Yeah. And and the reason that don't they
don't do anything is twofold. One is that the CIA
is systematically lying under oath to Congress about whether it's
like what it knew about Condor. And the other reason
is that the US is actively helping them, Um that

(01:06:12):
they're there, there's your channels. This one is that there's
good evidence that the CIA actively helped the Chilean government
kidnapp and murder multiple American citizens. But it's actually much
worse than that because so condor as as a sort
of network is running off of this encrypted American telecommunication
network and an equipment that is based in the Panama
Canal Zone. Now, Robert, Uh, I'm gonna I'm going to

(01:06:34):
ask you what was the U. S. Government running in
the Panama Canal Zone in the nineteen seventies. Um, they
were just helping boats. You know, they love boats, were
big boat people America and we'd like to keep them moving.
What what what was the other thing we were running there? Uh?
Just boats? Boats? Yeah, just boats, there's a there's a

(01:06:56):
guy named Manuel Noriega who was famous because he was
good at boats. Yeah, we all we just boats. We
also have a very famous boating school there called the
School of the America. Boat if you want to learn
how to be on a boat, school of because it's
the school of how to like take your boat across
the America's. That's why they call the School of the Americas.

(01:07:17):
All of the America's is for boats. Yeah, so yeah,
that's right, baby, it's School the Americas. We're doing the
School the America's again. And it turns out that I'm
gonna just gonna read this from Predatory States. As one
military graduate of the School of America's put it, the
school was always a friend for other special operations, covert operations.

(01:07:39):
So they're using the School of the Americas as cover
to run a covert assassination network. It's gonna kill like
an incredible number of people, including multiple U. S citizens,
some of whom were killed on American soil. It's great. Yeah,
that's like, I don't know what that's like something basketball,

(01:08:01):
you know, and and that that's that's that's just down
from Sophie on that one. I'm not terrible basketball metaphore.
That's just that's where we're gonna leave it today. With
the role at the Communist League having helped spawn and
carry out Operation Condor alongside their friends the CIA. Well,
if your friend is the CIA, you can find the

(01:08:22):
rest of our shows on the internet. You know what, Actually,
here's a little we should do a little bit of
house cleaning here, because folks have been yelling about this
on a couple of different things. Um is uh so
people are always like, hey, there's some weird edit thing
or there's some clip or something is wrong here, and
I have to tell you all right now, none of

(01:08:44):
that has to do with us. It has to do
with like whatever fucking weird ass app you're using, and
usually and usually it's Spotify Spotify or it's sucking podcast
Republic or like pod fucker or whatever goddamn bespoke ass
pod aft new motherfucker's use. Um just fucking using our
ss F in anyway, whatever people are weird, Um, I
don't know what to tell them. Um, but there's really nothing, nothing,

(01:09:07):
particularly that we can do. Can I give some advice? Yes,
So if you notice that your thing is being funky
on Spotify, delete it, refresh your feed, re downloaded if
the episode sounds funked up, instead of hopping online and
assuming that it's it's us, hop onto your phone, delete it,

(01:09:29):
redownloaded and it will probably be fine. Because here's the thing.
This show gets downloaded like ten million times a month
on like a thousand different goddamn apps, and like that
just introduces a lot of different ways for things to
get all fucky in weird ways. And we we we
do our best with quality control, but we have no
control over like podcasts come Guzzler or whatever app you

(01:09:52):
like to use. Um, so you know, try re downloading
the show before you yell at Sophie on the internet
about how um the pod potomy app that was sodomy
and pod that I'm mixed together it isn't working right, Okay,
It's it's fine. M I do love it when people

(01:10:16):
are like, hey, do you know why your podcasts are
sucked up? And then we'll just like name some app
I've never heard of. It's like, I don't know, maybe
it's because you're using some weird goddamn app I've never
heard up to download fucking podcasts. What do you want
it from us? We can't. We can't. We don't even
know how many apps are out there people are using
to download our fucking shows and everyone is like my

(01:10:37):
audio skipping. Yeah, that's Spotify. You can't see it that
I'm smiling on the outside while dying on the inside
like a winner. Speaking of winners, Chris, where can people
follow you? You can find me at it me hr
three on Twitter. Uh yeah, that's it. Don't look for

(01:10:59):
me anywhere else you won't find me, And look for
me behind you whenever you feel afraid, because that's where
I'll be stealing your wallet. I'm ending it on that.
Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

(01:11:19):
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool
zone media dot com, or check us out on the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Behind the Bastards News

Follow Us On

Host

Robert Evans

Show Links

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Part One: The World Anti-Communist League: A Study in Nazi Death Squads