Part Two: Peter Nygard: The Epstein of Fashion

Robert is joined again by Margaret Killjoy to continue to discuss Peter Nygard.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh yeah, it's Behind the Bastards the podcast that I
opened this episode with something that might kind of sound
like an orgasm, So you know what, why don't you
take that clip of Um? Oh gosh, what was the movie?
Why are you doing? Meg? Ryan has like a loud

(00:23):
fake orgasm? Movies when Harry met Sally, When Harry met Sally.
Why don't you mix those together and and put it
up on the subreddit and be real? Okay, first of
all yourself? Why not? Because maybe Sophie, if I stare
into the little of their own madness, then they'll then

(00:44):
they'll turn around. Maybe that's the healthy thing to do.
We're going to have to have a meeting. We have
so many meetings. Um, isn't this the intervention? I thought
that was the yeare more heavily armed people than either
of you have tried. Um, although since we are recording

(01:07):
in my house right now, you might be closer to
my my living room rifle than I am at the movie.
All I've got is my nine um boy. Margaret kill
Joy Behind the Bastards Podcast Margaret host Cool People who
did cool stuff and live like the world is dying,

(01:28):
author of We Won't Be Here tomorrow. See that's how
you fucking and so you do an introduction? Alright, can
do it when I want to? Margaret? Yeah, now, Margaret,
is it not true that you are currently crashing in
my house? Uh? I plead that? No? Yeah I am Yeah.
How's that? How's that going? Did did we or did
we not? Go to a renaissance fair last weekend where

(01:50):
we and then afterwards watch the Ed Harris George Romero
movie Night Riders. It was amazing both both parts of
this absolutely amazing. Is it all so true that we
got to hang on it? It was super fun? I
know it. I finally got to meet my co workers
at the Cool Zone Media by driving out to the
West Coast and watching Robert by a very large sword

(02:14):
and being kind of jealous. That's essentially the standard practice here. Yeah.
I wanted you to buy a large sword so that
I have a sword fight in my backyard, but I
know I almost did. But then instead I bought a
really nice, like handmade woolen cowl. You did? It is
a nice cow? Yeah, it is a nice cow. Your
cow will keep you warmer than my sword. Yea. Though

(02:36):
if we're attacked by saracens, then who's got the advantage. Yeah,
that's true, that's right, that's right. UM, possibly still you,
depending on what kind of year it happens. So, Margaret,
I am, among other things, having to rejigger the script
slightly because I had said it in my head the
whole time as Nigrid K. Even though I have been

(02:59):
too many play is that our keys? And I know
it's supposed to be pronounced key, I still called it
k in my head. And I don't know why. I
don't know why my brain did that to me, but
it feels like an affront. How is it spelled c
A y huh? So like the Florida keys are spelled No,

(03:19):
no they're not. They're spelled k E y s. If
I'm not mistaken. None of it makes sense, and I
am livid. I'm just angry, Margaret. That is the real
bastard of this episode. The dictionary. This one's pretty bad, actually,
tumatic war machine geared towards destroying the Mirriam Webster dictionary

(03:41):
or whoever makes things be pronounced ways. I don't actually
know who that is. So Nigard key was the society
was not society destroy society? Um, I guess this is
now an accelerationist podcast. Niagard Key was not the only
thing Peter and igerd named after himself. His fashion company,
his jet, his bottled water that he served at his compound,

(04:03):
and a specific copyrighted shade of electric blue. We're all
named after him, um, and it's the shade of blue
that he wears on himself all the time. I bet
his car is that color. Oh, I bet a lot
of them are. Yeah. Now, before the stories broke that
we talked about last episode and that we're about to
talk in this episode. This all helped to solidify his

(04:25):
legend as one of the most infamously wealthy playboys of
the fashion industry. Peter tended to wear Niggard blue v
nex with a V that went down further than I
think ought to be entirely legal. I found a really
good shot of it where like there's a woman next
to him who is wearing a V neck or like
a V front top that like shows the most of

(04:48):
her breasts and her belly button, and it's only slightly
deeper than his shirt. Like he is, he is almost
showing as much chest dis serve cuts it above his
belly because he yeah, he's yeah, Yeah, he's a little
bit shy. I thought he wouldn't have done that twenty
years ago. Um. And I think the blue of that
old dress that she's wearing, she's wearing his old clothes.

(05:11):
I just can't do it anymore. Um, it's interesting. I
also think that blue shirt he's wearing is the shade
of blue he named after himself, which just looks like
light blue, not that exciting a shade of blue. Um,
I don't have any is. It's perfectly pleasant shade of blue.
But it's not blue. It's blue, right, it's blue. Didn't
invent like a new cut like it's blue, bros. It's

(05:33):
just blue. Alternatively, if he had to dress up for
a party or a social event, he tended to wear
layers of elaborate costume grade clothing that made him look
like a cross between an elderly fabio and an extra
from Pirates of the Caribbean. And boy, this next shot
is quite an outfit. He's got like a really and
this ascot is an electric blue, looks like it's silk.

(05:55):
He's got a tuxedo shirt and then what looks like
it's not quite a tuxedo jacket because it's a little
more casual than that. But it looks like it's almost
like a volure or maybe a velvet gray on the inside.
It's a vampire extra. He looks like he's playing Vampire
the Masquerade tonight. Like he looks like he's doing vampire LARPing,

(06:16):
except for he has an incredibly deep tan, and no
one who has ever played Vampire the Masquerade had a tan.
That's true, because they would die if they're exposed, they
would die exactly. That's just not very good. Kfabe. Um,
do you call it kfabe and larpin because you should.
I don't know what kfab is, but I also I actually, um,

(06:37):
I'm a poser about larpin and that I write about
it sometimes, but I'm really a tabletop girl. Well I mean, yeah,
that that I get. Um, But you do have a
nice set of Renaissance bear clothes, that's true. I kind
of just wear them anyway. Okayfabe, Margaret, this is important
for you to know, Okay, for fabe is a wrestling term,
and it's the practice of like maintaining the illusion that

(07:00):
like whatever it is, whatever ridiculous ship you're doing on
in your wrestling storyline, is completely real, Like if you
hate a guy that you actually hate each other than
the character is like a bad guy, that he's a
real bad guy. Yeah, Like that's cafe. Um. Wrestling is
fascinating from a cultural standpoint. Um. And also he does

(07:20):
kind of look like a wrestler because of how much
skin he shows and precisely where he shows it, from
what I can discern from a truly unfortunate amount of
time it has been looking at photos of this man.
He tended to go shirtless much more often in his
fifties and sixties in the early aughts, which were the
height of his party days. One photo shows him wearing
a vest and nothing else. Skin is red as a

(07:42):
stop sign, hair down past his shoulders, and Robert de
Niro standing next to him, looking absolutely Robert. Robert de
Niro does not want to be in this photograph. It
is an amazing shot. Oh no, I scolled down. Please
tell us about the next Bob. Bob de Niro does

(08:03):
not want to be there. And there's a there's here's
a photo of him and around the same time, slightly
less red but just as shirtless, with a camo jacket
over his naked chest and a parrot, a live parrot
on his shoulder because his arm around Sean Connery. That's
what I thought, And Sean looks perfectly comfortable. Sean Connery

(08:25):
was meant to be there. This is what he was
born to. The look on his face is the I'm
posing with a fan the way I do this every
day and my life is fine. That is his look.
Unlike de Niro, who is like, in the process, are
you having someone to get this man away from me?
I came down here and there's no walls between the bedrooms.

(08:47):
I would like to go home. I need to leave.
I've never actually seen walls in a bedroom. Um. Peter
bragged constantly about his sexual partners in libertine lifestyle. He
joked in one interview that Celebacy was quote the worst
twenty minutes of my life. Workers at the key say

(09:08):
his nightly routine was to have them light torches at
sunset and play the theme from the Phantom of the
Opera before he and his guests engaged in pamper parties.
How you doing, Margaret Jesus Christ, I mean like it's
one of these things where was like if everything he
did was consensual and sort of nothing. Yes, of course, yeah,
I'm just like all right, like I have partied with

(09:33):
a much less wealthy version of this guy who didn't
commit sex crimes, and like it's kind of exhausting but
more or less harmless right where it's like, oh you
like theatrics and big groups of people cuddling, yea, and
everybody drinks terrible mixed drinks, but nobody has a bad time.
It's just kind of kind of a lot um. Now,

(09:56):
of course one of the and this is one of
the ways in which you can tell, like, um, that
what's going on here was not in fact a cool thing.
Basically all of the guests are extremely young women. The
only other men that Peter would ever invite were like
celebrities that he wanted to impress. Um. Now, obviously we

(10:17):
don't know precisely who attended these parties or what they did,
but we do know that his frequent guests included Michael
Jackson and George H. W. Bush. Cool, what a what
a party? You could have done cocaine in the fucking
Bahamas with Michael Jackson and George H. W. Bush and
then committed the kind of crimes that make God damn

(10:39):
your children, Like, what a what a lifestyle? What a
and this is the way it's so mad at all
the like pizza Gate type ships. I'm like, no, there's
plenty of this happening for real. Yeah. Um, obviously we
don't know what George h. W. Bush got up to,
but Georgia h. W. Bush has some allegations against him,

(11:00):
as does Michael Jackson. So now that said, I actually
am less inclined to think Jackson engaged in anything while
hanging out with Peter than George H. W. Bush, because
I think Jackson was kind of more private about it,
if I understand him kind of correctly. But who knows,
who knows what went down. It is always possible, as
was sometimes the case with Epstein, that a lot of

(11:21):
these famous guests were not introduced to anything illegal at
Niagard's compound. Right, you can bring in a lot of
young adult women for parties and a lot of well
the drug parts would have been illegal, but not actually
be committing any serious crimes that are certainly going to
get you penalized. And if you've got super famous people
coming over to your house, like George h. W. Bush,

(11:43):
that's probably the smarter thing to do, especially since George
is going to have members of law enforcement who have
to be tailing him, right um, And that's probably more
likely for Niagard than for Epstein. Um. While the deceased
financier made much of his fortune and reputation from providing
wealthier and more powerful in with young women and girls,
Niagard was more into celebrities as far as we know,

(12:05):
just for the clout again, I have no interest in
defending anyone here, and it's possible his friends, who include
former President Bill Clinton as well, Oh slick Willie, is
that the fucking Niagard key too. Don't go to get
me wrong, it's very possible, if not somewhat likely, that
they got up to some shady stuff. But also from
every story we get, Peter is a wildly jealous man,

(12:27):
and all of the allegations of rape and sexual assault
focus on him and his use of wealth and his
fabulous compound to lure young people into his bed. And
so I do think it's entirely possible that as as
far as the actual illegal sex trafficking stuff, that's just
Peter because he doesn't really like the idea of sharing.
He doesn't want to be like an Epstein figure. He

(12:47):
actually made money for himself, right, he wants to be
the guy getting the thing. You know. Yep, a lateral
move if I've ever heard one from an actor. Yeah,
I'm not sure to make like a major moral decision.
I'm not just trying to separate them, but I think
there is kind of a difference between what they were
up to. Um pamper parties tended to occur on Sundays,

(13:10):
and most of the female guests were women who lived
elsewhere nearby in the Bahamas, or who were visiting as
tourists from somewhere else. A decent number of them were
local women and girls. Negred would send his staff out
into the cities nearby to invite we women and again
girls back for free massages, manicures, horseback rides, and an
open bar. The New York Times talked to six of

(13:33):
him his employees who who recruited people at shops, clubs
and restaurants to come in party. Quote one time, he
was like, I don't know where you find these girls from,
but there's pretty girls in the ghetto as well, recalled
Freddie bar Mr. Negard's personal assistant in the early two thousands,
you need to find pretty girls in need cool cool. Eventually,

(13:54):
his staff compiled an invitation lift list provided to The
Times with the names of more than seven women, and
former workers said they photographed guests when they arrived, uploading
the images for their boss's perusal only those who were young, slim,
and with a curvy backside, which Mr Ni called a
toilet we're supposed to be allowed inside, according to the

(14:16):
ex employees, including Mrs Taylor, So basically a private version
of the origin of Facebook. Yeah. Yeah, he did kind
of make his own because he was already rich, just
for him to like molesque people with terrible and The
actress Jessica Alba, who attended a Nigrid party while filming
Into the Blue in two thousand four, later described it

(14:38):
as gross. These girls are like fourteen years old in
the jacuzzi, taking off their clothes, she said on a
press tour. And here's the thing. First off, I don't
know much about Jessica Alba. Kudos to her for saying
something at all, because number one, that's pretty unsparing. That
is a direct allegation that he is like doing inappropriate
things with children. Um on a press Jessica Alba's pretty based. Yeah,

(15:00):
I don't know I know very little about her, but
she went and said something, and fucking nobody else did, like,
very very little, very few people of her at her
level of kind of clout and influence said anything about
what Peter was doing. For sure, a lot of them
were aware of some of it, right, Yeah, so good
good for you, Jessica Albert. You get the behind the

(15:22):
bastards seal of doing good stuff. Yeah. I mean, like,
at what point is this the first person who's like
coming forward and being like, there's fourteen year olds in
this hot tub or well, this is obviously there were
allegant We just went through that history because that the
Winnipeg Freebeacon or whatever it was reported on a number
of allegations. A number of women made allegations, but were

(15:45):
some don't know. I think about the kid thing more specifically,
but I guess in his mind the same thing. This
is the first like national level, large scale public person
with any kind of platform to allege that, um, that
Peter Niagard is doing inappropriate things with children on his compound.
As far as I can tell, it's Jessica Alba's the

(16:06):
first person to do that. So again, like, seriously, kudos
to her. Is very few other people did, and fucking
Sean Connery probably knew. Right. Maybe DeNiro did too, Although
to be entirely fair, it does not look like Bob
de Niro wanted to be next to Peter Niager, so
he may not have. He may have shown up once
and been like it seems like it's gonna be a

(16:27):
bad thing bounced. I don't know. I don't know Bob
de Niro. Um. I think her example makes it clear
that we can probably assume a number of famous people
were at least present for some fucked up ship, even
if Niagard wasn't trafficking children specifically to them, right, we
could have been aware people if Jessica Jessica Alba. I
don't believe Jessica albat is the only celebrity who witnessed

(16:48):
stuff like this, right, she's just the one who said something. Um. Now,
some people did allege to The Times that Niagard also
tried to stop his employees from inviting black people to
the key or whatever it's worth. I don't actually think
that's true. There's photos of his parties, and a number
of the people there are black. Um allegations Also, like

(17:10):
a number of the people who accused him of abuse
are black women. And I think people who were black
women who were like children at the time of the abuse. Um,
I don't know that I think that one is true.
I'm not saying he's not racist. I just it doesn't
seem like he discriminated in that particular way right. Niggard,
for his part, has claimed for years that one reason
his wealthy neighbors hated him because he blames them for

(17:31):
cooking all of this up and and and faking all
of this, which will get to an amid that they
hated him because he's not racist. And I'm gonna quote
from Vanity Fair here. Nigard's supporters say his parties do
stand out because they're full of people who wouldn't otherwise
be in life and key. He has poor kids and
athletes out to his house every day, says his best
friend Carlos Mackie, who was the host of a sports

(17:52):
program on a local TV. He's a philosopher, a visionary,
a genius, but his heart's as big as Shemu the Whale.
Neigart is well known about the Bahamas for his financial
support of the country's Olympics running squads, among many other charities.
Wendell Jones, the publisher of The Bahama Journal, says the
residents of Lifford Key said they don't appreciate his flamboyance,
when what they don't like is the fact that he

(18:12):
invites so many black people over. Peter Nigard is a
force for good. This is from an article back before.
All of the things that we're about to talk about
have talked about broke um. But that's the way, Like,
obviously those are people who he has influence on, who
he's got talking to the press for him, right on
his many personal websites, on his MA and on his
many personal websites, and these are the kind of things

(18:32):
they're saying. He's like, No, he's a philanthropist and a
philosophy and a philosopher, and you know he it's just
their racist actually, because he's so not racist. And that's
why his neighbors don't like him. Now, the job of
Niagard's employees and some of the women that he dated
was to find girls that he liked the most at parties,
and once things got kind of loud and chaotic and
people weren't really paying attention to get that particular targeted

(18:56):
person drunk um and either drug them or can instant
to just take drugs and as you're kind of dose
and be like, hey, you know, you know what we
should do is like, if you really want some good cocaine,
we can go up to the Peter's bedroom that's where
he keeps the good stuff and we'll do some blow.
Yeah um. Niger denies all this uh and says that
no underage girls were allowed at the key. He provides

(19:17):
Affidavid's from a former employee who called Peter the bahamas
most generous and honest. Expatriot. Nigret's house manager, Rochette Ross,
told The New York Times that as social media became
more prominent, his staffers would use Facebook posts to promote
parties and even send messages directly to women, offering free dinners, massages, pedicures,
and boat rides. Sometimes he rated his new guests ABC

(19:39):
or D upon entry. Ross says that his primary judgment
criteria was again whether or not they had a quote
nice toilet. He uses that a lot. You can't avoid
seeing it. Yeah um. There are allegations that he drugged
people's drinks. There are allegations by one of his former
employees that a woman escaped from the property and was

(20:00):
brought back by the local police. Um, the person who
made those allies. This is where it gets messy though,
because the person who made those specific allegations, which is
a minority of the allegations of sexual harassment and assault,
also herself claims to have been a victim of Niagard
um and who to have been drugged by her girlfriend.
But this person also so here's where it gets kind

(20:25):
of weird because the person who like makes those claims
also has been accused by other people who previously accused
Peter of sexual harassment of having that she bribed them.
And this is what gets us into kind of the
next messy stage of things. Right, So this woman Ross
makes a lot of She claims Niagard had her family

(20:47):
dog killed um and the New York Times did find
evidence that Niagard wired her ten thousand dollars and emailed
her I sent you money for a new dog, but
we don't really know. Like this is where it gets
all because again this is this is this what we're
getting to is like there's a lot of messiness here.
And so the fact that I don't want to discount
Ross's allegations, but also Ross is alleged by other women

(21:12):
to have bribed them to have claimed that Nigrid assaulted them. Um.
And again those are like two of the dozens of
women who have accused him. So I don't think it
says anything about the the legitimacy of the allegations against him,
but it does mean that, like we do have to
kind of wonder is Ross a little bit right, because
this is whether we're yeah, or whether he's trying to

(21:32):
like muddy the waters by getting someone to go do this. Well,
I don't know we're getting There's another part of the
story that's critical to understand why finding out kind of
exactly what was going on a Nigrid key is so messy.
Cash payments were the near billionaire's favorite way of dealing
with problems. He was heavily involved with the Progressive Party
Liberal Party of the Bahamas. We kept happy with constant

(21:54):
Liberal payoffs two officials. When more than ten thousand dollars
was required, he would try to do things like half
larger quantities stuffed into fresh fish and shipped to whoever
he was trying to befriend. Um, that's kind of fun, uh,
as I noted earlier, Peter is really scared of aging.
So the one thing that caused him to seriously alter

(22:14):
his fashion habits was getting older. This is not something
he agreed to do without a fight. And I want
to quote now from the New York Post, which normally
I wouldn't use here, But the allegations they're quoting here
appear in a number of other places that are just
annoyingly paywald, and this is kind of an easier place
to get them. Quote. Nigard, obsessed with staying young, ended
up establishing his stem cell research company in nearby St.

(22:35):
Kitts the alleged purpose to use abarded fetuses from his
pregnant girlfriends to provide him with fresh stem cells. Nigi
seemed to suggest that something like that could be a
foot when he talked about the technology behind his treatments publicly.
I may be the only person in the world, he bragged,
who has my very own embryos growing in a peatrie dish.
One of his girlfriends, suell and Miadros, wrote in her
two thousand and fourteen memoir about a trip she took

(22:56):
with Niggard Ukraine, where he was having stem cell research done.
He asked, Swillen, do you know what the best stim
cells are, She writes, she did embryos, correct, she says
Nagurd responded, if you got pregnant and had an abortion,
we could use those embryonic cells and have a life
supply for all of us, you, your mother, and me.
A lot of people are doing it. So again, that's

(23:18):
that's that's boy. I never even thought of that one.
That's a new one for me. Yeah, be a misogynist,
that is. That is certainly not a thing that I
had heard about a person doing before. Um, although I
guess I'm not. Again, he's like the sleazier version of
more famous guys. He's like Jeffrey Epstein, but without like

(23:42):
the veneer of philanthropy. He's he's Peter Teal, but without
like the image of of of Wall Street cunning. Um like,
he's he's all of these He's he's all of the
worst aspects of all of the rich demons who infest
our world. It's kind of amazing, actually, Um. Yeah, but
you know who's not the ARCon of the darkest parts

(24:07):
of wealth Anderson. That is correct. Anderson doesn't even know
what a stem cell is. She does not honestly not
really doesn't really know what Ukraine is. Mm hmmm. I
don't think dogs recognize geographical boundaries. Yeah, well, actually they

(24:27):
kind of do. I did. I did. If you take
them on walks around the edge of Ukraine, they know
not to leave your Craine. Did she did? Kind of
just whisper, you know, fuck Vladimir Putin under her breath.
But well, that could be about a number of things. Yeah,
I think we should all mold this over while we
let these ads soothe our tired souls. Yeah, Anderson, tell

(24:49):
us what you think, all right, and we're back. Oh man,
Anderson had a really good joke. She did? She did?
I think that might get you canceled in some parts
of Twitter. But then then then you can get a
Netflix special where you really lean into it and eventually

(25:11):
get paid twenty five million dollars to do another Netflix
special about what a brave truth teller you are. Yeah,
this is how Sophie and finally retire. Um, I mean,
Howson shares. Yeah, it's here. We should probably deal with
some very sketchy aspects of the story because two of
the women who spoke with The Times and accused nigrative

(25:32):
sexual assault have now recanted their claims. Now, obviously, this
comes after ten other unidentified women filed a federal lawsuit
in against Niagard, which prompted an FBI rate on his
Manhattan office and eventually his arrest. Again, none of this
should state too like muddy the waters of the overall
allegations against him. It just makes it kind of hard

(25:53):
to know the specifics in certain cases. Um. While the
Times reporting still holds up, they spoke with more than
a US and other women who have not recanted. I
would be responsible not to note that the two women
who recanted claim we were paid to live by Ross
um Ros denied this and took a polygraph test, which
does not particularly mean much to me either way. Yeah,
but it's a profoundly messy case, and this is due

(26:15):
in large part to a bit of the story that
we have not talked about yet, Margaret, the decade long
turf war between Peter Niagart and his neighbor, a billionaire,
which is ultimately what helped to bring him down. So
we're past the bad parts the well, it's all bad,
but we're past the parts that are like soul crushing.
And now we're into the part where two rich guys

(26:36):
destroy each other, or at least one rich guy destroys another.
Either way, it's fun. Um. So the community that Niagard
lived in, as we've mentioned a couple of times, it's
called Lyfford Key. It was created as a planned community
for the uber rich by ep Taylor, the Canadian beer
brewing millionaire. Taylor planned Lyfford as a winter community and

(26:56):
built his dream out of a three thousand acre plot
formerly owned by Sir Harold Christie. The manners that were
constructed for the first wave of owners in the fifties
and sixties had names like tra La Lah Safari, tea
Time and out of bounds. So I suspect some sex
crime stuff might have been happening in Lyfford Key prior
to um. In nineteen sixty two, when JFK flew to

(27:22):
the Bahamas to talk with British Prime Minister Harold McMillan,
they both stayed in Lyfford Key at probably a tral
law or maybe it out of bounds. So did at
varying points in this period in Reford the second Aga
con the fourth the Prince of Monaco, and Sean Connery,
who went on to own a home there. The Hinzes

(27:43):
and the Melon family also had homes there. It was
a veritable who's who of the bluest bloods in the
world and a handful of celebrities for good measure, but
celebrities like Sean Connery who were like at least of
a certain level. You know, So why the Great Lakes
because I have this other idea. Okay, um, if all
of the who's who are and anyway, so please continue.

(28:05):
I think we dropped them in the Great Lakes kind
of like like George C. Scott at the end of
that movie where they're with they're hugging the bombs, but
they're not. They're not on there by choice. Intercontinental Billionaire missiles. Yeah, exactly,
exactly that way. The president really thinks before he fires them,
hopefully not too hard. Um, yeah, but it's time. So

(28:26):
at first, Lifeford Key is like classy and pretty high profile, right,
those are not little names, the Melons, the fucking uh
Carnegie fans like those are. Those are significant fortunes. But
things started to change kind of as the years went on.
And I'm gonna quote from Vanity Fair here. Today's roster
is sleepy by comparison, aside from Sean Connery, who nearly

(28:47):
half a dozen James Bonds ago shot Thunderball in several
of their films. Here there are scores of semi anonymous
businessmen or their progeny. Bacon and Nygard's neighbors prefer to
keep a low profile. Count and Countess de Ravenel of Ants,
the resilient reinsurance magnate Antonio Braga, Jane Lewis, the wife
of the English inventor Joe Lewis. It's quiet money, says

(29:08):
David McLoughlin, a New York financier, second generation Lyford and
chairman of the Lyfford K Club. Long before the Puddle,
Nigard clashed stylistically with much of the Glyfford k establishment.
He threw a lot of parties and was always doing construction,
and that puddle is kind of the beginning of an
issue between him and his neighbor, a guy named Bacon,
We're going to talk about in a bit. But Nigard

(29:30):
is kind of for these blue bloods who are again
quiet money, Nigard is a nightmare for them. He's got
about eight hundred million dollars in personal wealth um and
he's got a couple of us presidents who's at least
friendly with. So he's too rich and powerful to force
out right, you can't kick this guy out of your
fancy rich people community. But he's also he's like gross, right,

(29:51):
Like he's not These guys are all doing sketchy ship,
but they're not doing sketchy ship in their fake Mayan
temples wearing fucking electric blue uh spandex body suits or whatever.
They paid extra for walls. Yeah, they have walls in
their bedrooms where they're also I'm sure committing crimes. Um.

(30:12):
But yeah, so he's hated. He's denied entrance to the
Lifford k Club, which is a golf Yeah, right, they
won't they won't let him in the club. Um and
uh yeah. Most of his neighbors insists he clashed with
them from the start, but Nigrated is adamant that everything
was fine with him and his neighbors until he met
his next door neighbor Louis Bacon. Now Louis Bacon is

(30:34):
a New York City hedge fund billionaire in most one
of the most addictive forms of food. Yeah, he did.
He did create bacon um after inventing the pig, which
previously a lot of people don't know this, but prior
to his invention of the pig, all pigs had actually
been ducks. Um, that's the way it worked. Look it up,

(30:55):
Google it on Wikipedia, dot in carter um. So obviously
Niggard incorrectly gets referred to as a billionaire a lot
he's not. I think he tops out like seven fifty
million dollars, which is still quite a fortune. But Bacon
is a real billionaire, like he's he's actually got more
than a billion dollars, and he's widely seen as one
of the most powerful men in the financial industry. Right

(31:18):
Like he's I'm sure he's got even more than that
now because it's been a good couple of years for
the finance industry. Um. The two men have very different personalities. Well,
Niagard is showy and ostentatious and like these big, lavish,
gross parties. Bacon is quiet and comparatively introverted. His main
interest outside of his job seems to be hunting. Um.

(31:39):
And he's one of those hunters who raises a lot
of money for conservation, right, Like, he pays to protect
a lot of lands and stuff and all that good
things so he can go shoot birds on it. Or whatever.
So he's about to go. Since he's about to go
to war with Niagard, who's an actual monster, it would
be easy to portray Bacon as a hero. Obviously, I
don't think he is. He's a man who got wealthy
running hedge fund, which is generally not a business I

(32:01):
find particularly ethical. But I don't think there's any evidence,
um and I. In fact, I think it's probably unlikely
that he's any kind of systemic, systematic sexual predator or
abuser of his employees. Um and I think it's particularly
unlikely because Peter Niager tried desperately to dig up like
dirt st and like the thing he wound up finding
is that like one of his ancient ancestors a long

(32:24):
time ago was like a klansman, but he had another
ancestor who fought for the Union against the Confederacy. So
it's like this whole like yeah, yeah, is he probably
had a bunch of rich guys in his family and
then in all sorts of ship I don't know, he
didn't find any evidence that this guy had done anything
like the things that Nigert had done, right, um, So
obviously by comparison, he does look quite good. The two

(32:47):
had problems over a shared roadway, and like there's this
fucking puddle as a result of like this kind of
thing that's in between their properties, and upkeep on. It's
a little bit unclear. Um, libertarian assholes are for shared
infrastructure right right, exactly, Um, And this is just kind
of them bickering over this kind of thing between their
two properties until in two thousand five, Nigrit attempts to

(33:10):
add parking to his property by laying a fifteen by
twenty ft slab on the property line, specifically Bacon side
of the property line. Now, now you're fucked up, Peter.
All all of the sex crimes, all of the horrible
violence that you've done to at this point. I mean,

(33:30):
the allegations are hundreds and hundreds of women like wearing
a thousand um, none of that got you in trouble.
But you're fucked with a rich guy's property line. I
can't even imagine if if I had this kind of money,
I would not live in such a way that neighbors
would exist, right, What the funk? Man? Like, how are you?

(33:53):
How do you have this much money? And he says
it's because it's the most beautiful place in the world.
It's like, I'm sure mohammas are very pretty, but there's
other islands. May seven fifty million dollars. You can make
it work. Um, what is wrong with you? Vanity fair
rights quote. Bacon responded by suing Niagard and obtaining a
court injunction to remove it. Two years later, Bacon dealt

(34:15):
with his long standing irritation with the noise from Niagard's
parties by installing industrial grade speakers at the edge of
his land and pointing them at niagard Key at night.
We hired a sound consultant in the UK to see
if we could somehow muffle the sound from Niagard's by
omitting a counter sound, but that proved terribly complicated, so
we went and got four huge rock concert speakers to
play something loud. In response, Bacon's architect, Peter Talty, says

(34:38):
it was horrible, squawking sounds that would drive you out
of your mind. Says Eric Gibson, Niagard's former property manager.
In illegal filing, Niagard's lawyer characterized them as military grade
speakers that blared dangerous, pain inducing sound waves towards Mr
Niagard's home. It was supposed to create white noise on
my side, but that didn't work. Bacon says what it

(34:58):
did to his side wasn't really interested in. Honestly, that's
pretty cool. That's pretty cool. Um. And also what a
whiney baby Peter military grade speakers come on? Man, like
fucking a higher I don't know what's a kind of
band A guy who looks like him would probably listen to.

(35:21):
Besides Jimmy Buffett. Yeah, I hired Jimmy Buffett to come
play a counter sound. You can, you can afford it. Um. No,
Jimmy Buffett would never work with this man. Um. He's
He's a fundamentally moral actor. That's that's what I choose
to believe about James Buffett. Um. As a conservationist, Bacon

(35:41):
was also enraged at the fact that Niagaret had started
dredging up sand from the sea floor and moving it
to physically expand the size of his property. He's making
his chunk on the islands bigger by stealing the sea
the bottom of the sea. He kept a suction dredge
on a float platform, destroying underwater habitat and adding to

(36:03):
his coastline. Every day and the time he lived there,
Peter expanded his property from three point to five to
six point one acres, destroying eighty four thousand square meters
of sea floor in the process. I know, such a
weird crime, Peter, just buy a different spot. I know, unbelievable.

(36:26):
A local ecologist interviewed in two thousand fifteen by Vanity
Fair says the environmental damage was extensive. Niger, to counter this,
pointed to a study that he paid the commission that
said it was all fine. Again, these are rich guy crimes, right,
So you don't just fuck the sea floor up. You
pay a scientist to say it's okay. Um, just to

(36:46):
building stock systems like build a yeah, beautiful weird shanty
town on. But I don't know whatever. You have a
number of options with all of that money. Peter Bacon,
who was also influential with the local government, brought their
attention to the matter. Inspections and injunctions and all sorts
of unpleasant legal ship followed. They're kind of it's my

(37:06):
opinion that they're kind of bribing and counter bribing the
local government right now. This was more or less the
situation in two thousand nine, when an accidental electrical fire
destroyed a lot of Niagrid key, including Peter's Biggest Stupidest pyramid.
This was a problem, but one well within Peter's financial
means to rectify. But when he sought the permits necessary

(37:28):
to replace his home, the local government refused. This is
when The New York Times alleges the war began. Quote
Mr Niagard sued over changes his neighborhood made years earlier
to their driveway than he sued the government, saying it
was colluding with Mr Bacon to force him off the island.
The allegations became more bizarre. One street protest in Nassau

(37:49):
featured men in white hoods and placards proclaiming Bacon is KKK.
New websites funded by Mr n Iagard claimed Mr Bacon
was responsible for several murders. Court records show a video
made by Niagrid staff, according to a former contractor, superimposed
Mr Bacon's face on the collapsing twin towers, leven him him. Um,

(38:16):
that doesn't even make sense. At least, there's like, oh, yeah,
he's got a family member who was in the clan.
Let's like turn him into a racist or whatever. Like,
what does that even mean? Peter, and then he painted
a big tunnel on the cliff, but it wasn't a tunnel,
and Bacon drove his car right into it, nearly killed him.

(38:38):
Now I do feel confident that Louis Bacon would not
have fallen for that trip. Now I think he is
the road runner in this situation. Peter's absolutely the wily coyote. Um. Yeah,
Bacon goes right through that fake tunnel and then Peter
and Iger tries to run into it, but he hits
his face on him. Then he gets blood all over
his blue shirt. Um, so I'm quoting in from the

(39:00):
New York Times. Mr Nyagard was a formidable opponent. Police
officers and local journalists dined at his home. One later
admitted in court that Mr Niagard had paid him to
smear Mr Bacon. Mr Niagard also had allies in the
Progressive Liberal Party, which he wanted to legalize stem cell injections.
He bragged he'd given the party five million dollars during
the two thousand and twelve election campaign, legally as the

(39:21):
Bahamas has no campaign finance laws. After it won the election,
a Niagard YouTube channel posted a video featuring six ministers
visiting his estate. He threatened or sued media outlets that
investigated him. He slow walked lawsuits, filing countless motions and
requesting the lays, exhausting his foes. So I also should
say I don't know that anything legally that happened here
was bribery, because you could just give money to political

(39:43):
parties in the Bahamas, right, which is probably more what's
happening is just they found a place where they could
just give as much money to people as they want
until things happened. So that's the actual reason why they're
all cramming onto this island. That's I think a big
part of it. I think there's a number of things
in the Bahamian legal code that take it enticing for
guys like Niagard, particularly um So this would have been

(40:06):
an insurmountable obstacle for any other person going up Peter Niagart.
But again, Bacon has more money, and in fact, Niagard
has now picked a nemesis who has nearly doubled his
net worth. Peter could pay protesters and by articles and newspapers,
he could pay to have websites made. He can bribe
entire political parties. Bacon can afford to do all that too,

(40:26):
not to say that he does. That is not an
allegation that he in fact did do those things, but
he could afford to um It's simply a statement of
their relative levels of wealth. What they can did do
is form a nonprofit called Save the Base, which targeted
Niagard Key for a number of environmental abuses. He also
hired as many lawyers and private investigators as he could find,
vaguely near the Bahamas, and I think flew in some

(40:48):
other guys from the FBI and Scotland Yard to help.
They've found evidence for a defamation lawsuit which was filed
in two thousand fifteen. And it is allegedly through this
process that some of Niggard's former allies began deserting him,
allegedly because the money is a lot better on the
other side. Although this is why, and this is again why,
it's hard to know precisely what happened, right, because there's

(41:09):
so much fucking money flying around here, right, so many
people who were saying, like so, I can't tell you
for certain precisely what of the things that Peter is
accused of happened. Just that these allegations go back like
fifty somethings, so and and there. There's at this point
hundreds of people involved. So I don't think that's at

(41:29):
all in question. It's just like when you get down
to the specifics of like what was going on in
his house parties and how bad was it and how
many famous people were involved, Well, there's a lot of
fucking allegations flying, and a lot of them have money
behind them, and it's really hard to tell exactly what
went down. Um, well, but the guy who invented the pig,
he also probably paid his employees better, or like treated

(41:50):
his employees better. It probably wasn't like you went on
that KKK march, but your white hood wasn't tucked in properly.
So that's twenty five dollars less than I'm going to
pay you. Like, that's not a way to keep your
paid protesters. And no, no, you get the feeling that
Bacon knows how to keep his people happy. He's opposed
to Niagard, who apparently makes an enemy of everyone he

(42:11):
knows for more than about five minutes. Um. Anyway, I'm
gonna quote again from the Times to self described former
gang members Livingstone, Toggy Bullard, and whistler Bobo Davilma told
the Bacon's investigators that Mr Niagard had hired them for
dirty work like torching his ex girlfriend's hair salon and
staging anti Bacon rallies. According to court records, the men

(42:34):
claimed Mr Niagard had given them a hit list that
included Louis Bacon and Mr Smith. Mr Niagard has denied this.
Mr Bullard and Mr Divilma, working with the Bacon investigators,
hatched a plan to videotape Mr Niagard. The private Eyes
acted like secret agents, using encrypted phones and dropping cash
for the two men in a box behind a post office. Eventually,
the Bacon's paid the two about one and a half million,

(42:54):
mostly for secretly recording five meetings with Mr Niagard. The
video has turned up no sign of Mr Eigerd's plotting murder.
I can't get into killing, he said in footage obtained
by the Times. But the investigation did find photos of
Peter looking at very young women from his car and
saying stuff like do you see those toilets and lamenting
all of the people that he hadn't yet had sex with.

(43:15):
And I think this is apparently what turns the Bacon
family onto the possibility that Peter might be having sex
with underaged people. Um So, in late two thousand fifteen,
they hire a security firm two in the Times as
words push American law enforcement to investigate whether or not
he'd done some sex trafficking. Now, the firm that they

(43:36):
hire is run by a guy named Jeff Davis who
claimed to be a tenure veteran of the CIA, who
runned what he'd called the ghost program, which is not
a real plan doesn't exist since some movies about it though,
Yeah yeah, ghost protocol. Um. Bacon was conned by this
guy and spends like six million dollars, which is very funny.

(44:00):
All of this is extremely funny, but again it is
part of why it's like kind of hard to know
the precise details of what happened, which is like sucks
to be clear. Yeah yeah, yeah, this is not this
is not gonna Bacon is not like hurting for money
because he burned six million on this this con job.
It's all really funny, um, and it's but it's also like, again,

(44:20):
it's hard to part of why I emphasized the early stuff,
his mistreatment of workers, the outright criminal behavior, they're all
of the rape and sexual assault allegations against him from
people who were extremely young, gooing back further than even
the nineteen eighties. This goes back to the very beginning
of his career because once you hit this period where

(44:40):
he's fighting with Bacon, tens of millions of dollars and
dis info, we're just flying around. So like nailing down
what happened is very very touchy, right, um. And I'm
being so careful about what I say here because like
this is even though Niagart is kind of probably down
for the count, this is a fight between two very
very Richmond and you don't want to be uncareful when

(45:02):
you talk about totally may have done what right? Yeah,
but you know who's always careful when they make allegations
about sex crimes. Is gonna be an ad for bacon,
isn't it. I hope it's an ad for bacon. The
bacon industry would never do anything like that to us.
I mean the guy, oh well, honestly he seems like

(45:25):
he's in the clear for that one too. Um. But yeah, anyway,
there you go. We're back Anderson. So another cancellable thing. Boy,
he sure did and Anderson. He she if you're gonna

(45:51):
accuse her of doing something wrong, Oh but it was
actually it wasn't an it was that wasn't an actual
thing that she said. I regret starting this bit, yeah,
because I I almost fed into the bit by being like, yeah,
she made a comment about her appreciation of Rhodesian pattern camouflage.

(46:13):
But then I decided not to. And I feel bad
that I have led us to the chain of events
that has taken us to where we are. Margaret, this
was this was your fault. This was all what a disaster.
Recognized that this is this is the podcasting equivalent of
starting a fight with your neighbor who has one and
a half billion dollars. Because Anderson can actually do no wrong,

(46:33):
let's be on that's right, that's right, and Peter Bacon
can pay to have done no wrong at the very
least and to eat Bacon. So here we are, Yeah, exactly,
and anyway, let's get back on the old on the
old train. So well as when we left off, Louis

(46:56):
had just gotten conduct of six million dollars by the
ghost program CIA guy who was just a con man,
and the guy who conned him told Bacon and Niagard
had put hits out on his family and like actually
got got like hooked Bacon up with bodyguards who drove
him and his family to safe houses and must have
been a very exciting afternoon for everybody. Bacon eventually realizes

(47:19):
he's been had, and the FBI and Homeland Security both
did launch investigations, but they didn't go anywhere into Peter.
So Bacon and his brother decided to put together a
lawsuit in two thousand seventeen, patterned off of some of
the most prominent ME two cases. Right, they're kind of
paying attention to what's happening. They know there's there's no
there's smoke and fire with Peter Niagard, right, because they

(47:40):
do have it. At this point, stuff is online. They
found the old allegations, right, They've got people who are
able to see the ship that had happened in Canada,
find those old Winnipeg whatever newspaper articles and stuff. So
they put together a lawsuit. They get their private investigators
to introduce fifteen Bahamian women to American lawyers um to
do like sue Peter her out of New York. And

(48:00):
I'm gonna quote from the Times here. One woman now
when involved in the suit, told the time she was
fourteen when she met Mr Niagard at one of the
stores in two thousand fifteen. She is a photo with
him that day. She said that she was later invited
for a modeling interview at Niagard Key, where he assaulted her.
She said that she had never told anyone what happened.
Another woman in the suit said in an interview that
she was fourteen when she attended a pamper party in

(48:22):
two thousand eleven after her mother asked Mr niagar to
sponsor her in a beauty pageant. Is this what my
life can be? She recalled, thinking of the models in
the room. Her glass of wine never seemed too empty,
she said. Later she recalled she swallowed pills that Mr
Niagard told her models took. Then she said, he took
her upstairs and you know, um. Drawn by the money

(48:42):
and promise of modeling gig, she later returned recruiting other women,
she said. Tamika Ferguson found her way at a Niagard
key in two thousand four after being kicked out of
high school. An orphan from a poor neighborhood, she said
a DJ had invited her to a pamper party. She
drank too much and ended up in a bathroom barefoot
in her bikini. She said, when she emerged, your friends
had gone. Mr Niagard steers through upstairs, and I don't

(49:04):
think I need to finish that. Um yeah, uh so.
The Times has photographs of this woman in that this
woman took of herself in Niagard key. Three people, a
former Niagard girlfriend and ex employee and a guest said
that they remembered her here. So this is again. These
are all been backed up. These are very for all
of the stuff that is kind of murky, there's a

(49:25):
lot that's extremely clear right in terms of the allegations
against Niagard. Now, but back to the things that are complicated.
The investigators and lawyers that are putting together this lawsuit
were paid by a nonprofit called Sanctuary. Mr Bacon was
a generous donor to Sanctuary. There are claims from people
interviewed by The New York Times that Bacon or entities
which received funding from him, gave money to a number

(49:48):
of women in exchange for going forward against Niagard. Peter
would probably say that they were paid to lie. It's
worth noting that Several of these women claim the money
was necessary to keep them safe from Niagard, which is
certainly not without merit. Right. Again, it's very messy, but
I get that point right, Like, Yeah, you're being asked
to go up against a very rich man. You don't

(50:09):
want no backup there, especially in a place like the
Bahamas where it's really easy to buy the law and
buy the government. Um. So it's a mess of a case.
I think there's plenty of clear reporting though about what
happened and about what Peter did, and I don't have
trouble believing uh in his guilt, And apparently neither did
the FBI, because they eventually decide they have seen enough

(50:31):
and accused him of sex trafficking, sex trafficking involving miners, rape,
and racketeering after raiding his offices in one Nagaret was
charged by the Toronto Police with multiple cases of sexual
assault enforceable confinement from cases between the mid nineteen eighties
and the mid two thousand's. With the dam broken around him,
more allegations flooded out, the earliest of which dates back

(50:53):
to nineteen sixty eight. There are at least fifty two
plaintiffs currently pursuing legal action against him in several cases,
include a class action. In two thousand eighteen, Niagard Key
was seized by the Supreme Court of the Bahamas. The
property is currently in ruins. Peter Niagard remains in custody
in Canada awaiting extradition to the United States. He says
that his health is terrible and that he can't get

(51:14):
the kind of food that he wants to eat while
he's fine bars. Yeah, I again, I don't really care
what happens to this guy at this point. Um, as
long as he's kept away from doing any harm. His
finances seem like they're in disaster. His company is failing. Um.
I wonder who's going to buy his property. Yeah, I

(51:36):
think it's already been like confiscated by the government. But yeah,
I don't know. I'll tell you this, don't get into
a fight with Louis Bacon. Um. And honestly, like credit
to Louis, apparently nothing else was going to fucking take
this man down. Um, and by god, it needed to happen.
I'm just I'm just glad that it did. Um. Louis,

(52:02):
good work. Um, although it is pretty funny that you
got caned by the fake CIA guy. Yeah, real here,
that's pretty funny guy that that is the most likable
version in the story, the guy who got a bunch
of money for fucking nothing. Um, I could have made
a money for nothing in the Chicks for Free joke,
but in an episode like this that wouldn't have. But

(52:26):
I thought about it because that's a pretty good song.
I feel like there's just always that irony of like
all of the like anti sellout songs that are on
the radio from like the seventies or whatever. Is that
an anti sellout song? Though? I thought so? Is that
kind of just a like it's making fun of It's
not like anti sellout, but it's like anti music industry,

(52:46):
which is like, I mean, to be fair, if I
was engaged at a professional level in the music industry,
I would absolutely write songs talking shoot on it. I
mean on like, you know, my professional engagement in the
podcasting industry, which I absolutely love. My corporate overlords. Well,
it's interesting because well, I don't know, now we're completely

(53:07):
off the topic. But I've never sat down and looked
at the lyrics. But isn't it like some guys who
work at like a furniture store or something, being like
we're busting our asses all these day and the all day,
and these guys just like half as some songs and
they get all that money for nothing and the chicks
for free. I thought that was what the song was, probably, right,
I I think, well, but they also, like you know,
wrote Sultan's a Swing, which was like way more of

(53:29):
a like it's much better to just go be the
guy who plays at the bar every I you know what,
the world doesn't need to know my opinion about Dire Straits. No,
this is what we're talking about. Welcome to the Dire
Straits Cast, a podcast where I Robert Evans, a guy
who only knows the song money for Nothing and the
Chicks for Free, which is probably not what that song

(53:50):
is called by the Dire Straits, and Margaret Kiljoy, who
knows at least one other song same band. Amazing that
this podcast is in its seventh year, you know, and
people keep no one actually listens, but we found a
weird loophole where the advertisers keep up and we just
get automatically downloaded to your phone like that one you

(54:13):
two album. Well, Margaret, how do you feel about Peter
Niker's I feel very negatively about him. Um, I hate
being reminded that people like him exist and are everywhere. Uh,
and they helped make NAFTA a reality. I love. It

(54:34):
is amazing that this is one of the guys who
made NAFTA happen. Yeah, Like, there is a world full
of heroes who have dedicated their lives, like the Zapatista
movement right, like you know, kicked off in response to
naf to nafter signing, right, And there's this like world
of unsung heroes who will dedicate their amazing lives to
fighting this. And then there's the guy who's like built

(54:56):
a weird thing in the Bahamas so that I can
sectually saw people, because the whole thing was just so
I could sextually it's sault more people, and it's just like, yeah,
I just I just helped destroy Number one helped destroy
like the unionized garment industry in two countries, and number
two like roped people from around the world and particularly

(55:17):
in Mexico into nightmarish working conditions and abuse in order
to make enough money that I could build a fake
Mayan city in the Bahamas and commit sex scrids in it.
That's that's Peter Niagard and he got taken down because
he built a parking lot on a richer guy's land. Yeah,
what a real world timeline we're in that What a

(55:40):
what a good way for that to all get This
is the best system the world has ever seen. Again,
Louis Bacon, if you're listening and thinking of suing us,
I have nothing but but respect and happiness that you
took him down. He needed to be taken down. I'm
just frustrated that one of like five different countries legal
systems didn't at first. Um, outstanding good stuff. So I

(56:08):
guess if you ever encounter a man with hundreds of
millions of dollars who is horribly harming people, hope that
he pisces off a richer man or or hear me out.
You now know that they carry a lot of cash.
Uh huh, you could get the I'm gonna yep anyway, yep,

(56:31):
thirty straight bleeped seconds and then we roll out. All right, Margaret,
you want to plug anything here? UM. I have a
book called We Won't be Here Tomorrow. I have a
podcast like Live, like Thorls Dying. I have another podcast
called Cool People Did cool stuff. And I have a
dog named Rentraw and I love my dog, great dog,

(56:52):
solid dog so much. Learned how to herd baby goats
today a natural just immediately knew how to do it. Um.
Speaking of things that are known, I have a book too.
It's called After the Revolution. You can google that and
a k Press together and find a place to buy it,

(57:15):
or type it into any of the various book related
websites and stores that you go to. They all sell it.
You can buy it, and then it will be yours
and then you will own a piece of my soul,
black magic or whatever. Yep. It also contains a complete
manual on how to um. Oh, no way, that's a spoiler. No,

(57:39):
that's a spoiler, and also a federal crime. So we're
going to just bounce for today. Alright, bye everyone. Behind
the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. For
more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone
media dot com, or check us out on the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.