Part Two: What's New With Andrew Tate?

Robert explains the weird cult Andrew Tate created with a wizard and former pick up artist to rob young men and abuse women at scale.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media, Oh boy, welcome to Behind the Bastards, a
podcast where tired people talk about a guy they hate,
in this case Andrew Tate. How are we all doing today?
Everybody pull of energy? You just don't know, as the
kids say. I don't think the kids say that.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Ready to go. Playoffs are about to start, Lakers and five,
so we're good to go.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, well that's good. Lakers in five sounds like a
positive development.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
I had a really enjoyable experience of texting Robert late
on Sunday when he was very intoxicated a picture of
the Labarbie that I've pur purchased, which is Lebron James Kendall,
and Robert like call me and go, Sophie, what is this?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
And it's just beautiful is what it is?

Speaker 3 (00:57):
And I was like, it makes me happy, That's what
it is.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
The amount of grown men like standing in line trying
to get this dolls just it's you can't make it.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
They made like a g I Joe, a m or
is it a is it a Barbie brand?

Speaker 4 (01:13):
Now it's like it's a doll.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Made a Lebron Kindle. Well he's really finally arrived.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
I guess yeah, it's sold out so fast, but I
was well, I was there, I did it.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
I'm gonna guess that's the lowest percentage of Barbie dolls
that have ever been bought by little girls.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
Probably probably true, probably true.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
But it's you know what, it made me happy for
like forty five minutes, and when I look at it,
all feel joy and like the world sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
So yeah, yeah, joy sounds nice.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Take the winds where we can get them.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
I remember joy that's been replaced with occasional sleep. Yeah.
Speaking of things that bring me joy, this is not
one of them. Because today we're going to be talking
yet again about our friend Andrew Tait, who is not
our friend.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
But who is our friend is super residing producer Ian Johnson,
who's here once again.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, thanks for having me back. You can't wait to
hear more about the.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Horrors Ian Johnson.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
You don't do that. Don't do that. No, No, Robert,
I've had thirty five years of that. Please don't contribute.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, none of that, man, it's it's I've been I
had a good I always love it when there's like
really really like stereotypically cheesy names in an action movie.
And I just watched that very good movie Novakane starting
a Guy from the Boys about a dude who can't
feel pain, and it does a good job with it,
portraying it both as like a disability and realistically showing

(02:39):
how he could use it, like to his advantage in
a fight. And it's like very cringey because you're constantly
watching this guy like permanently damage his body. But it's
a hoot. But they made the real character's name Nathan Kane,
which is like, okay, guys, oh that's a little Was
that necessary?

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Did you have to?

Speaker 1 (02:58):
I know it's going to that's going to come out
out in a pitch meeting, like, oh what if we
called him this? But you didn't need to.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
You didn't.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
You didn't need to.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Most of the movies pretty grounded, which is kind of
what works about it. And then like that happens and
you're like, I don't know, guys.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Come on, you're so close.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
There's also a scene where a bunch of bank robbers
come out with like a hostage and the cops like
put their guns down, and I'm like, this is this
this is the San Diego Police Department. You're telling me
they don't just empty their fucking rifles into that fucking
those people.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
I won't deal with the lawsuit.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Later We'll watched the LAPD shoot up a trader Joe's
over a hostage situation and killing him.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
We don't need that shit here.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, anyway, speaking of shit nobody needs, we're talking about
Andrew Tait and his digital empire, how it works. Today's
episodes are going to be based on a bunch of
subsequent reporting that was not available when we did our
first episodes, about how the war Room, which is his
very expensive premium service that costs about eight grand a
year to join, although that's actually the low end for

(03:57):
what this fucking thing costs to be a member of,
and the real world, which is like cost fifty bucks
a month in the real world is you know, if
it's Toyota, the war Room is Lexus, that's the premium brand,
and the real world is you know, the normal brand
that actually makes them the bulk of their money. So
we're gonna talk about how these work, how Tate has
weaponized them over the years, and what some of these

(04:19):
released chat logs have made clear about the operating culture.
But first, that's the cold open. We're done, We're back
and Sophie and I are commenting on our same colored drinks.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
What's yours, mine's electrolyte.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Water minds, some mix of BCAAs and water. Because this
is ostensibly a workout day that yeah, has been a
little bit of a shit show, but might as well
get whatever those chemicals are. People say they do something sensational. Yeah, yeah,
so the doctors say, speaking of things that do something.
The war room and so the real world is is

(05:00):
kind of the core of Tate's business because it's got
between one hundred and fifty and two hundred thousand subscribers
at any given time. I think one hundred and seventy
k is the estimate you'll hear the most often. And
you've got that many people pay in fifty bucks a month.
You're talking some serious money. Now, there's wide turnover on
that because fifty bucks a month isn't a massive upfront investment, right,

(05:21):
people can afford to pay that and then back out later.
There's a lot of people who are kind of interested
in them for a little while who will be and
so there's a lot of churn over the overall use
of this right, and the goal of the real world
broadly is both to make money and to funnel users
upward into the war Room, which is much more expensive,
you know, and as a result harder to get into,

(05:42):
but also lower turnover once people make that kind of
financial commitment. So both of these places we've known about
for a while. The real World was originally Hustler's University,
which is kind of Tate's first big web platform that
kind of taught people how to pick up women and
run cam horing business.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
So to speak.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
And yeah, so we've known these places existed, but they
were kind of black boxes until in August of twenty
twenty three, a disgruntled I think this is a person
who would describe themselves as a rival of Tates, like
someone who saw dislikes what he's doing and wanted to
get into them. It's not clear to me how they
got access to the chat logs, but they get access
to internal chat logs from the war Room, which is

(06:22):
his digital inner circle, and they give them to the BBC,
and the BBC uses these to put together a documentary
in several articles. Their primary interest as reporters was in
laying out how the Tate brothers and their cohorts traffic
women and these logs identified forty five potential victims from
just the period of March twenty nineteen to April of
twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Now, wow, I was just from one year. Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
And this is again there's maybe five hundred people in
the war room, and these are the people though, who
are much more successful in actually doing the thing Tait
is trying to train people how to do. Right, The
real world is filled with young men who have ambitions
to be small scale digital pimps, but don't really have
the skill or the commitment, so they primarily contribute by

(07:07):
paying classes that are supposed to teach them how to
do that shit. Whereas the war room is full of
people who are actually doing the kind of Andrew Tait stuff.
So that's why they were able to Like there's photos
posted of texts, people post pictures of the women that
they're you know, trying to bring in and traffic, so
you kind of see, it's possible to actually collect data

(07:29):
on specific potential victims right through that. Now, the next year,
November of twenty twenty four, a group of anonymous activists
managed to breach the real world, which is, you know,
the larger platform and the cyber attack exposed the data
of some eight hundred thousand people who have used it
at some point or another. During the time about one
hundred and seventy thousand people were active, So you get
an idea of like the scale of this. And it's

(07:51):
also every time, every time these pieces of shit, It's
the same thing with those like Nazi leagues for a
while ago. Every time those pieces of shit create something
like this, it gets just absolutely blown up. And then
everybody's data gets leaked and you find out how many
of them work for the federal government or whatever.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
Right, right, familiar, yep.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
So both leaks are interesting for different reasons. But I
want to start with the real world because that, again
is kind of what funnels people's up. The site's ad
copy claims it as quote the world's most advanced financial
education platform, but it's also geared towards helping young men
escape the matrix and avoid wasting their lives as a brokie,

(08:30):
which thanks to Tate, has become one of the more
common adolescent slang terms for young boys in the UK,
And it means you don't have much money, right, you
get this fucking you hear this a lot with like
the way these kids talk to their teachers, and their
parents were like, were you just a brokie? Like why
would I listen to anything you have to say about
life or the world. You don't have as much money
as for example, this guy that I'm paying fifty bucks

(08:53):
a month for my mom's credit card to learn how
to like mostly make like AI scam books and stuff
to sell on Amazon. Like, that's honestly the biggest thing
that the real world does, right now, that's the grift.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Yeah, literally, the Hustlers University thing, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yes, right, yes, and so's there's all just like scams
to get rich quick essentially, right, yeah, scams to get
rich quick, And it's all this this very much like
it's the same cons that you encounter if you're on
like YouTube and you get a bunch of like con
ads for oh, here's a video of a guy in
his fucking garage that with a sports car and a

(09:29):
bunch of shitty business books and him walking you through
how he makes twenty thousand dollars a month or whatever
on Amazon drop shipping or you know, making Kindle AI books. Again,
that's now kind of the big one. And while initially
Hustler's University was more focused just on getting women to
work in your cam business. The real world is a
mix of very standard like pickup artists stuff like here's

(09:54):
here are the different tips and tricks for getting women
interested in you and how to like, you know, mentally
abuse them so they don't leave you. And the next
set of them is or the next set of things
on it is like here's a bunch of different scams
for how you can get rich, and they're all again
there are all these like drop shipping scams and AI

(10:14):
scams and stuff. So it's none of it is for
as much as he talks about like being this jetsetter
who's got all of these innovative ideas, Like his primary
money it's an MLM, right, like this is a thing
that most people who do this will never make a
dime really doing it. His money is in selling them
and selling subscriptions right.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
Well.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
The platform provides courses on common like passive income schemes.
That's another term you'll hear a lot. It's primary service
for Tait is both to milk money out of these
kids and the hope that they'll believe for a time
that they're going to get rich, but also to utilize
them for free labor to keep his name trending again.
The way this guy went from a nobody to being

(10:55):
at least the most well known name on social media
is by gathering this group of young men together and
handing them. Once they're paying for access to the site,
they get access to this archive of all of Tate's
videos and interviews and they can cut up clips from
that to edit into YouTube and TikTok content. Right, and
this content doesn't get them viewers, Like that's kind of

(11:18):
what it's build is doing, is like you can use
Andrew's fame in order to build your own platform. That
doesn't really work. But what does work is if you've
got thousands of people constantly posting their shit to different
social media the right, yeah, and the algorithm will continue
to prioritize your name and stuff related to you, you know.

(11:39):
And that's that's really how all this stuff works. Just
free propaganda for him, it's free propaganda. And that's the
actual the real insight that he had, Like all of
these cons are just stuff he rips off from elsewhere
on the Internet, taking the MLM structure and adapting it
to instead of having them try to sell his products,
having them try to keep his name going viral so

(12:00):
that the algorithm rewards his content. That's a unique and
creative move that he's made, and it's gotten him quite
a bit of what he has right now now. One
of these BBC articles I came across interviews a former
member of the Real World Mahmoud, who was pulled into
Tate's orbit when he started coming across some of these
videos that were just like being spread across his different

(12:23):
social media timelines. He fell for the con He believed that, like, Okay,
this guy can probably teach me how to get rich.
I want to get rich. You know, life's hard in
the UK as a young man, like I need to
figure out some way that I can make a bunch
of money. So he pays fifty bucks and he joins quote.
Before long, he was completely immersed in Tate's universe, isolating

(12:43):
himself from friends and family. Mahmoud would regularly spend ten
to twelve hours a day, sometimes his Mania sixteen and
his computer editing and publishing social media videos promoting Tate
daily as part of the required coursework. He'd become a
cog and the same sophisticated Pierre machine that had initially
drawn him to the influencer's web.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
God. So he's giving these kids homework to just like
make as many TikTok videos of him as possible.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, if you want to stay in, if you want
to keep getting access to these different instructors that I've had,
if you don't want to be kicked out, or you
want a chance of getting into this. He has an
affiliate marketing program. You have to post a certain number
of videos a day, and they're really they're just trying
to keep these kids on as often as they can,
pumping out like sixteen hours a day for free. I
mean not not even for free. They're paying for the privilege. Right,

(13:29):
And again, there's not any one specific thing that's unique
about the real world outside of this. All of the
money making scams they teach people are the same stuff
you'll come across in these like YouTube ads. There's this
basically like this forum type experience. I think it's mostly
conducted through telegram, So there's different private channels where users
can talk to each other about their business ideas or
about how to pick up women. And this allows Andrew

(13:51):
to put in a lot less actual work in the system. Right,
he doesn't have to teach people directly, and he doesn't
actually have to manage this. He just has to put
out his own content and it'll all get kind of
fed into the churn. Andrew has promoted coaches in order
to handle the day to day task of managing this place.
These are members of the war room who are also

(14:11):
paying him. They'll call him his general sometimes too. And
in addition to you know, subscriptions to the real world,
he sells classes and tickets to life events around the
world where he will travel and you know, travel alongside
other men who are kind of in the Tate universe,
and they'll give events for these These just unbelievably sad

(14:32):
young men who desperately want to know how to pick
up women and get rich enough to not just rent
their maserati at a day rate. The centerpiece of his
whole platform, the main thing that he is geared towards
selling through the real world is his PhD. What stands
of course for pimpinhose degree. Right, we talked about this
last time. No, it's always so. It's just the worst

(14:53):
thing when I have to tell people that, yeah, yeah, it.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
Puts every time it hurts.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Again, There's nothing at all that is unique or creative
about this. What's actually happening here is this, all these
warmed over techniques from like the game and the first
couple of years of the pickup artist community are being
repackaged into a degree, and then that is being made
into number one. It's a prerequisite to join the war room.

(15:22):
And the goal here is not to just seduce women
to have sex with them, which is kind of what
the pickup artists were doing. It was all about adding
notches to your belt or whatever. In this case, the
goal is to coerce women, make them fall for you,
isolate them from their loved ones, and then get them
working for you on camera as a sex worker, right
and convincing them to hand over all of the money

(15:42):
they make doing so. That's yeah, that's just that's the business.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
Hard to even process. It's so gross.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
It's such an interesting evolution of this is about how
to at a If you were kind of paying attention
to the early days of the pickup artist community, it
was always very toxic, but it was less like outwardly
evil like a lot more of it was framed as like, well,
this is just teaching young awkward men how to be
charming and how to like yeah, you know, get get

(16:13):
and that turned into there's a reason why this fed
so much into the far right and to the alt right.
Why there were guys like ruche Vee and whatnot who
were initially big in that, who tried to become right
wing influencers, but nearly all of them failed, in part
because this was a creature of the older Internet right,
this pickup artistry stuff, and it didn't really age well

(16:34):
into the kind of late social media period. And the
other thing was going on with this is that it's
not the kind of thing that self selects for people
who are culture warriors. It self selects for people who
are like almost throwbacks at this point, to like the
old Hugh Hefner Playboy era. And Andrew tait Is, I

(16:55):
don't know if i'd say he's the first, but he's
the most successful at merging the whole right wing culture
warrior narrative where you're fighting against the matrix and you're
fighting for traditional values with a lot of this pickup
artistry stuff, which you know, that's kind of the that's
the position that he occupies. Now. This used to be
the PhD used to be something he advertised on his

(17:16):
major website, but because of all of the lawsuits against him,
you can't find the degree being advertised normally, so it's
pushed entirely in private through the real world, and the
BBC got access to a number of these internal ads.
These are like slide shows where Andrew's trying to convince
these young men who are already locked into like the
most basic stage of his platform, that they should join

(17:37):
the war room and pay it eight grand a month.
And I'm gonna share here. It's eight grand a month
or a grand a year, sorry year, Yeah, either way,
that's so so much money.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
So this first slide just says, will the PhD system
change your life? And it's above four pictures of a
mix of it's like Andrew usually sitting and sipping a
drink or wearing fucking shorts leaved shirt next to different
various young women. Right, will the PhD system change your life?
Do you have a girl who completely trust your decisions,

(18:09):
will do anything you say, and loves you deeply? Yes
or no? If your answer is yes, I guarantee ninety percent.
If you are lying to yourselves, read the question again.
Understand what I mean when I say anything and ask
yourself if you've ever tested that your belief. If your
answer is no, you're missing out on one of life's
greatest pleasures. Doesn't matter your age. You should have a
loving girlfriend. If you're too busy to get one good
the PhD system was made for you. If you're happy

(18:31):
touching your own dick, this power is not for you.
So you see who he's advertising for here, right, Yeah,
these guys are like, well, I could spend sixteen hours
at a computer, but like, I don't want to go
out and like actually make a connection with somebody. Right,
And there's little bits of no fap in there. There's
so many different little corners of the creep Internet that
come together in making Andrew tait final thoughts. I will

(18:55):
be teaching you every step to building a girl who
is submissive, loyal, and in love with you, from your
first message to testing if you want to keep her
to as long as you want the relationship to go on.
I am the most capable man in the world to
teach you this power, and I am one hundred percent
confident in my program. I have a warning. There's responsibility
when you have someone completely loyal to you. I've had
some girls from over a decade. When someone gives themselves

(19:16):
to you completely, their life path is in your hands.
Be wise. And then there's a little box at the
bottom that says joined the PhD program. Yeah, and then at.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Least he's teaching them to be responsible with that kind
of power.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Sure, you've gotta be responsible when you come to own
a woman via using Andrew Tate's mind domination program. And
then the last slide here is what exactly do you
get with the PhD programs? This is a big ad
slide hours of video content. Well, I will teach you
how to text women, how to build your social media
is to pick up women, best first dates, to bring

(19:51):
women on, best follow up dates, how to approach women.
The framework that in all that all male female interactions
are based on how to see if a woman is
high quality? My opening line had to get women in
bed the critical mistakes most when men make, how to
stay on her mind without interaction.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
How to see if a woman is high quality?

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yes, Now, if you've watched Always Sonny in Philadelphia. The
degree to which all of this mirrors the Dinnist system,
which is one of the characters is a creepy sex
criminal and has like a flirtato like it's it's one
for one, Like there's pretty it's literally one for one.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
Jesus Christ, you know what else is one for one?

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Robert, Speaking of one for one, I'll give you one
ad break in exchange for one chunk of listening to
my podcast. And we're back.

Speaker 5 (20:45):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
So we're talking about Andrew Tait, mind control wizard, you
know who's he's just like, you know, this is again
like I bring up the dinnist system, but this is
all what's kind of interesting to me is he clearly
to put this together. He the people who made this
spent a great deal of time combing the Internet for
the last twenty years of different get rich quick and

(21:08):
like flirt with like like flirting with women, like pick
up artists, scams and all that stuff. Like there's a
whole generation of like creepy dude, kind of right wing
adjacent content, and he's just an aggregator. It's like somebody
put the last twenty years of like dudes being assholes
on the Internet that led us directly to Trump and
like use chat ept to remix it into a guy

(21:31):
with bad tattoos. So I find that I find that
very interesting. Yeah, Now the stuff I read these kind
of these clips advertising the PhD system, like the way
in which he describes it in this advertisement is disgusting.
But in other interviews he's dropped additional hints about some
of the curriculum, which does include physical violence. So I

(21:52):
played that clip earlier about Tate talking about using a
machete on a woman who caught him cheating, right about
like you know what happens if she catches you cheating
and she tries to attack you, and he says, you know,
hit her in the face of the machete.

Speaker 5 (22:04):
Right.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
This is something he talks about a lot, and it's
it's this this mix of like stuff like that, these
like extreme this extreme violence, and then these tactics that
are almost like quaint, right, Like he one thing he'll
tell people to do is to start your relationship with
ordering by ordering the woman in question to bring you
a box of chocolates. H And at first I was like, oh,

(22:27):
is this just this is just like very basic, like
almost fifties era stuff, But no, it's it turns out
it's more related to like this neuro linguistic programming technique
where you get someone doing you favors and you use
that to ask them to do other favors. And Tate
clearly he doesn't even really seem to grasp much of
like the underlying logic here because when he there's there's

(22:48):
male BBC journalists who tries to interview him for this
documentary on this leaked stuff. Wants to interview Tate, and
Tate does the same thing, tries to get him to
bring a box of chocolates and hand them directly to
Andrew and the journalist that's like talk to his editors
to see it. And there's this whole weird It's what
he's trying to do is he's trying to establish a
pattern of obedience because he thinks that lets him manipulate people.

(23:10):
That it's like this hack to get into someone's brain.
If you get them doing one favor to you, they'll
do other favors to you. This is very old power
of positive thinking, salesmanship kind of stuff. You'll get this
in stuff going back to the nineteen fifties, including a
lot of like the Norman Vincent Peeale shit that Donald
Trump was being raised on as a kid. I've seen
versions of this that go back decades and the thing

(23:33):
you're supposed to do. As time goes on, you're supposed
to give the subject of your focus more tasks, and
you let your language get increasingly strict. You start by
asking like, hey, would you do this for me, and
you in by giving them commands right where like, this
is what we're doing today, this is your job for
the day, this is what you have to do for
the day. And at the same time, and this is
the thing that I think actually makes much more of
an impact effectively. You're also supposed to be isolating your

(23:57):
target from their family and social support network, so you're
getting them in the habit of doing things that you say,
and you're also cutting them off from their friends and
family so they don't have anyone else in their life.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
But you I want people who would ostensibly be like, hey,
what are you doing? This is kind of sucking weird.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, you're doing everything this guy tells you. Are you
working sixteen hours a day? Like on doing an only
fans that he gets the money from, Like that seems
kind of fucked up. Now, I want to play you
a clip linked leaked from one of these in person
seminars he gives on mentally dominating women. The question he's
asked right before giving this answer, is can you say
more about the restrictions and boundaries that you put on

(24:34):
a woman in terms of who she can talk.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
To trigger warning Andrew Tate's voice.

Speaker 6 (24:40):
Well, her family, right, she really strong, soial, So that's all.

Speaker 5 (25:00):
No more around saying and then we're gonna catch that's
all business their side story. Only you're about nine out.
Why that line just pass? It gets in there. It's
not time And the things we're talking about us are excitement.

(25:21):
He never catching all these things time into ice and
taking away from the house, every house.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
All.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
Yeah, I hate this guy.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
So disgusting, the smallest little man in the world because
women won't shut the fuck up.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
It's like, well, I.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Mean it's it's taking this very basic misogyny because you're again,
his audience is not it's framed aus like we're an
alliance of powerful men, you know, making sure they're more powerful.
But his audience is all guys who have never like
I mean, it's not even guys. It's children, right, it's
kids on the world. Are you right?

Speaker 3 (26:03):
Are you really powerful if you can't handle your partner
having Checksnos, a friend.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Friend, no, No, But like this is these people. Most
of these people have never had partners, right and and
the Tate and kind of the older men who are
running things they've got. They're all jacked. They're all generally
on gear. They're all they all have like nice tailored clothes.
They all either have or rent sports cars. And these

(26:29):
little kids are minds, are just putty in their hands.
They like see they see the physical symbols of wealth
that these people have, and they're like, well then they
must know what they're doing, Like this must all be
the path to get what I want. And this is
pretty classic cult leader behavior, both from Tate influencing these
young people and the stuff he's telling them to do
to women. Right and he frames this as saying, like,

(26:52):
there's no perfect girl for you. You have to make her.
You have to make her using these techniques, right and,
per a quote from The Daily Dot, which originally published
a lot of these leaked war room videos. In another
clip from the same meeting, Tate explains why the woman
his members want to date should not have normal jobs.
If she has a normal job, she's got a social circle,

(27:12):
she's got a support network, Tate, the moones, She's having
a bunch of conversations you don't know about. She knows
a bunch of dudes who are trying to get in
her ear. No, she has concerns which aren't involving you, right,
and that's a problem. Tate says. Her brain power is
dedicated to things that have nothing to do with you.
It's a massive influence. And there is this like deep insecurity,
right that if you will anything else in you cause

(27:33):
you're going to be you're going to make her miserable.

Speaker 5 (27:35):
Right.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
You have no desire or intention to actually like be
in a relationship with someone or provide them with anything
they need. You're preerly trying to take things from them,
and it's obvious that's not going to make anyone happy.
I wanted to run through another section of this curriculum
from Tate's PhD. So this is from that same clip
that gets played around a lot of Andrew Tate talking

(27:56):
about hitting women with a machete. What's not usually played
in the context when people discuss this, because I've seen
like all of the big interviews that he's done recently,
he gets asked about this. What's not played is that
this is him talking about like one of the physical
tests that you have to pass in order to get
this PhD degree. And I really wish people would talk

(28:16):
about this because this is kind of one of the
more like fucked up things I've heard about in relation
to what Tate is actually trying to teach the people
who take his classes.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
And what about my PhD.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
We had to practice if a girl comes.

Speaker 6 (28:27):
At you and you cheat it, you cheat it, it's
bang on the machete, boom in her face.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
This is the actual full context is like this is
part of a test you have to like in order
to pass this degree. You have to take a physical
test on how you would defend yourself against one of
these women you're trafficking, catching youat cheating, Like that's the
actual context of.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
All of this insane.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, it's pretty nuts. Yeah, like just the fact that
like you're building in well, obviously your people are going
to get attacked because the stuff that they're they're doing
is so like incredibly gross. We have to try and
like train them to fight these women that were also
teaching them to try and like mentally dominate, which is

(29:09):
simultaneously this admission that like the tactics don't work that well.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
So you're going, yeah, his stance there, if I'm understanding correctly,
is if woman speaks in a way you don't like,
you slice them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, that's exciting, and you have to train people to
slice them. Yeah machete, Yeah yeah, with your terrible machete.
And that's why you have it. It's not because you're
being targeted by the deep state and the matrix. It's
because your girlfriends are going to get angry at you
and you have to be able to hit them.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
That's insane.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, So giving speeches like this and this is like
part of the curriculum for this this PhD program, you know,
sold on in the real world and operated as a
prerequisite for getting into the war room. Making stuff like
this is how Tate makes his money now. Right, He
is not primarily in the pimping business anymore because that

(30:06):
doesn't make nearly is It's an MLM thing, right, It's
an MLM that sells being a pimp.

Speaker 5 (30:11):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
This is the same as like Douterra or whatever. But
your business is like coercing women in the working on
camera for you. And Tate's at the top now, so
he doesn't have to actually have to do that. There's
much more money in making content like this. Now, the
purpose of all of these programs is to get people
to buy other classes, right, that's what's really sold. The
real world's fifty bucks a month, but if you want

(30:34):
to get this degree, it's another four hundred dollars. The
war rooms eight grand a year. But there are access
to additional secret chat rooms that cost thousands of additional
dollars a year, right, And there's access to classes that
cost thousands more. And there's all these in person gatherings
that cost money. And one of Tate's mottos is that
no great man ever ever got there on his own, right,

(30:54):
so's he says, like, you need these, you need to
be part of this network. And it's all so familiar
to like the mL the standard MLN schema when you
really look at it like that. And that's what's really
changed my understanding of Tate from this is an influencer
who is mobilizing his fan base to make himself more famous,
to this is a guy who, whatever his initial goal was,

(31:17):
he's now amway. He's now the amway of hitting women, right, Like,
That's that's what Andrew Tate's businesses.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
It's got Keith Ranieri energy Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
We'll talk a little bit about Keith Ranieri, because there's
a lot of Keith Ranieri to Andrew Tait, and I
think to some extent it's maybe if Tate had come
up in an earlier era, before all the anti woke
stuff got as big as it was, before the far
right was ascendant, he would have tried more for the
culturally kind of like left wing image that a guy
like Ranieri cultivated, where like no, no, no, I'm part

(31:48):
of like this progressive movement empowering women. I think Andrew
might have gone in that direction, he probably wouldn't have
been as successful because I think he's just kind of
inherently also a dick, but he's he he's certainly shaped
by like the tides of history around him. Now, former
members of the War Room not only are they being
kind of taught to groom these women that they're trafficking

(32:10):
in a culty way, they also described the war Room
as a cult itself. And the basis of that BBC
report is that the leader of the actual cult inside
the War Room isn't even Tait. He's just the figurehead,
the individual responsible for most of this content and curriculum
and for the culture of the platform is a completely
different guy who goes by the pseudonym Iggy simmelweis in

(32:34):
the war room, right, And I'm not one hundred percent
in agreement with the BBC on the how much this
guy is actually running things behind the scenes, but he's
certainly a major figure. He is a real person. Will
give his real name. His nickname is odd to me.
When I first heard Iggy Simolwiz, I was like, that
sounds familiar, and me being me, whenever I'm like, well,

(32:54):
that guy's name sounds familiar, my assumption is like, so
he's some sort of Nazi, right, Like this is some
sort of guy. But I look him up and I
remember where I read about him from because he's someone
I've intended to tell his story on bastards for a while.
He's actually not a bastard, but there's a lot of
awful stuff in his story. Ignat simbilwise was a real
guy and a really the precise opposite of a bad guy.

(33:15):
He was a he was a Hungarian German doctor, and
he's the guy who was basically first in like an
organized way making the scientific case for like, hey, we
should use an as sceptics. You know, people always die
when we give surgery or we cut off their limbs.
What if we like cleaned things first, what if we
cleared this song?

Speaker 4 (33:32):
Great? What a great idea, my guy. Yeah, great idea.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Sounds like a good guy.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
He was a good guy.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
Yeah, he was who.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
Really really really really really likes hand sanitizer.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Wellay, symbol Weis is the father of hands out. He's
also the father. He was the first major figure who
was like a respected Western scientist to be like, surgeons
and doctors should probably wash their fucking hands right.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
Clean is somebody who unfortunately surgery this year. Thank you,
my guy.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Wow, now you say it at Sophie, but it turns
out that no, he was fine. But at a certain
period of time, telling doctors that they needed to wash
their hands was very dangerous because if you're telling doctors, hey,
before you reach your hand into someone's chest cavity, you
should like wash it with like soap and stuff, you're
telling doctors your hands are covered in germs that get

(34:25):
people sick. And doctors are better than regular people, right,
they are educated gentlemen. And if you're telling an educated gentleman,
you're dirty and you might get a poor person sick
by touching inside of their body. That is deeply offensive,
and it really pissed off a lot of people, so
many that Simowiz was hounded into a like hounded into

(34:48):
like having a mental break and then forced into a
mental asylum where he was beaten by guards and died
of an infected injury because because they were washing their
fucking hands.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
I mean, god, I do get a lot of joy
when I know something that my doctor brother doesn't.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, like the father of being, Like, wash your fucking hands, people, God,
now everybody.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
Just so tiny, just so tiny, wash your hands.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
I mean they do it.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Now, they got around do it. We just had to
lose illuminary first. Now again, the pick this name. I
don't understand that. I don't know because he has nothing
to do with this guy right, other than maybe he
feels like he I guess I could make a clickcase
that like, oh, he probably sees the world he's in

(35:41):
is filled with like germs, which is, you know, other
people having rights, And maybe he's the he's he's the
persecuted doctor who like sees the way things should be.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Step away from the computer screen, touch grass, go to therapy.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
No, I don't want this guy to go do anything.
The real dude is an American named Miles Sonkin, Right,
that's the actual guy.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Who Yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
I don't know, weird little guy. The BBC got access
to a bunch of leaked chats for its documentary The
Man Who Groomed the World. The journalists behind it, Matt Say,
came up with the opinion that Sonkan is the brains
and the igeological weight behind Tate's whole war room operation.
And he makes a pretty good case. Again, I disagree
with aspects of Shay has put more time into this

(36:27):
than I have, and he spent a lot of time
around Tait. He's met Sonkan in person, He's met a
number of key figures here. Somebody yield to his expertise,
even though I'm not sure I agree with him entirely.
And we'll talk about who this guy is, but first
let's talk about who our advertisers are, other than great people,
which they are. Sonkan was born in Chicago nineteen sixty one,

(36:55):
and he's been described in interviews by family members as
a smart kid. And here's the most dangerous word we
ever used on the show. He was also an autodidact. Right,
So he's this kid who learns a lot on his
own and doesn't really go to high school but educates himself. Now, unfortunately,
when you do that, there tend to be holes in
your education.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
I feel get pretty siloed into some Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
This is one of our great problems, is that if
the things you're interested in wind up being worth a
lot of money, you can get by never learning about
anything else and also convincing yourself that you understand the
world because you've made a lot of money. And I
think that's kind of what's going to happen to Sonken.
And he pays an initial he pays initially some like
consequences for it because he immediately gets.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
Cited in a picture of the guy. That's why his
face is doing that.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Oh yeah he does. He does look like a wizard, right,
he looks like an evil wizard.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yes, it's so bad. This beard is terrible.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Oh yeah, no, I'll believe he's using the fucking dnnist
system to get his get himself a harem.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah yeah, Malcolm, please insert a picture here, please, there's
there's a good one.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
You'll know which one.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, wizard. So his self education makes him kind of
vulnerable to getting taken advantage of as a young man,
and as a result, he joins two different cults right
when he's a young person. Are sially two different organizations
widely regarded as colts, and the second is the Rajniche movement,
who was the focus of the Netflix documentary Wild Wild Country.

(38:33):
So he gets sucked into that for a while as
a young man, and I think like the eighties night,
late eighties or nineties now the details of his specific
involvement in either cult are not available at this time,
but over the years Son can evolve from a spiritual
seeker into someone who believed that he in fact had
the answers. During the early age of the social Internet,
he became a pick up artist and was one of

(38:55):
the first prominent ones online serting like the late nineties
early two thousands, he's like on the ground flow or
of pick up artistry as like an online subculture. He
gets really interested in hypnosis and neurolinguistic programming alongside this,
and he began become an advocate of mind controlling women
by repeating certain words and phrases. You might recognize this
as Pavlovian training. Applied to dating, and he seems to

(39:17):
be the origin of Tates. You know, get him to
bring you chocolate, you know, establish a pattern of obedience
in order to break their ability to think separately from you. Now.
Sonken is also a self described wizard. He believes he's
literally casting spells on people. He does that to this
journalist when he tries to like interview Andrew Tait, Well,

(39:39):
he does have like a little bit of a Sarramon
if Saramon got his hair down behind a seven to
eleven block. Sonken is a self described wizard, and as
he got into magic, he got more interested in the
self in the more esoteric segments of the far right
through the early aughts, the like weird hitlerism shit, and
this is a growing up kind of the most part

(40:00):
before people become super aware of it and then Gamergate
helps flood a lot of it and then the alt right.
Sonken is kind of right in the middle of that.
He and Tate seem to have started working together in
twenty eighteen, and at this point, Andrew Tate is basically
a late undergrowth of the pickup artist community focused on
camera sex work type stuff. It's unclear how Miles is

(40:21):
involved with him, but I think he probably helps to
write and formulate a lot of the courses that Andrew
was selling during this period. A former member of the
war Room, which was established in twenty nineteen, describes Iggy
as at the top and the real leader of the platform,
and it's you know, I don't know if I like
taking away credit from Tate for being, you know, a

(40:42):
puppet master, but these guys are both definitely partners, you know.
And the kind of things Tate's teaching a lot of
these are not things he came up with himself or
wrote himself. They think similwise kind of had on deck
that Tate decided to slap his name on. And even
this has layers right when a former member described the

(41:03):
war Room as a bunch of telegram chats, some for
business or girls or money, but there are more prestigious
rooms that users who have already put in thousands of
dollars are expected to shill out thousands more to join
in messages on the Warroom telegram we can see song
and posting as similwize and giving the same advice Tate
gives from that speech we listened to earlier, And this
is a message from him to war reim members. Isolating

(41:25):
her from her family, friends, past is the kindest thing
you can do for her if you are taking responsibility
for having sole authority over her.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
And then in.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Another post, we deliberately reduce attention and note if she chases,
then we set up a coffee date and execute a
move to find if she's willing to pay for our
coffee and serve us. After that, it becomes a series
of gradual steps to remove her entire support structure from
her life. Then we punish her for a transgression real
or imagined by having her get our name tattooed on her,
leaving her family's home, apartment, town country, webcamming, and stripping

(41:54):
walking the track for us, getting us girls. Escalate, Escalate, escalate.
So this is really Keith Ranierie stuff doing the branding
thing right where you have to get tattoos or scarify
yourself with the name of this guy.

Speaker 4 (42:06):
Yeah, it's pretty gross.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
It's pretty gross. Now, I think it'd be wise if
you wanted to do so, to view the war Room
and the real world as kind of a modern day
answer to the Church of Scientology.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Okay, Yeah, there's so many parallels. I was thinking that
this entire time.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
A ton of parallels, and obviously Hubbard is a reflection
of the big self help culture of his time. The
scientology starts off as an offshoot of the self improvement
movement with a book called Dianetics, which instructed readers on
a series of exercises that would clear them of trauma
and bad habits and make them superhuman. One of the

(42:46):
dominant subcultures of the early Internet age, as I've said,
was the pickup artist scene, and the inherent scamminess of
a lot of this culture influenced the growth of the
modern YouTube scam economy, as well as the ecosystem of
far right content creators who helped break the Trump administration.
So it does make sense that Tait and Sonkean would
form a cult What is at its around what is

(43:07):
at its essence rebranded pickup artistry. The BBC documentary makes
it sound like this was all Sonkan's plan from the beginning,
and it quotes former members who described his ultimate goal
as world domination through the spread of his ideology. Right,
he wants to get this to everybody. He wants to
take over the world with this, and I but Also,
how is anyone going to make money with their camera
businesses in that future? Sure, it's like if you wanted

(43:32):
to take over the world by building a bunch of
tire shops, well, at a certain point your tire shops
aren't going to be worth any money. There's two Do
you not understand supply and demand? I don't know, not
the most logical.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Uh movement math not adding up at all?

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, the maths not really adding up. So Samuel Quinone's
was interviewed for a Vice article. This is a He
is a founding member of the War Room, but says
that he quit about six months in because quote, I
recognize the upselling of useless courses and events, much like
an MLM.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Okay and okay, so dumbino hard enough to leave.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah right. There's another guy who's like, yeah, I was
working on their socials for a while. I didn't realize
there were trafficking women. And the interview asked like, do
you feel bad for that? And he's like, well, no,
I didn't really know what was going on. Okay, man,
I don't know. There were still some unknowns, such as
how much financial advantage is taken of in the warm
Inner Circle members. Right, we don't know if Andrew's getting

(44:26):
money from each of these guys in the war room,
a cut of their profits from, you know, trafficking women.
We do know that about one percent of the people
who join actually get a lot of money, which is
not super different from amway.

Speaker 5 (44:39):
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
I was gonna ask, like, were there any like success
stories or people who actually did get rich from this,
and it sounds like no.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
It's hard to really tell, but I mean, I'm sure
there are definitely people making money from having women do
this for them, but anyone who winds up net in
the black is fairly rare. Mahmood, a former member, told
Vice there was no that was making any real money,
he said, citing conversations he had with other students in
the platform's chat rooms and the empty win section on
most users' profiles attract a lack of earnings. These people

(45:09):
inside there that are reliving, that are leaving their schools
the units to pursue this, he said, adding that one
of his friends on the platform told him that he
had abandoned his university studies to go all in on
the program. Oh no, I don't know. I don't know, Like,
if you could be convinced not to go to university
because you're hoping that like you could become the next
Andrew Tate. Maybe you shouldn't be getting whatever degree you

(45:30):
were getting.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Right, there's this like trend on TikTok right now that's like,
uh needed I just needed a hug thing. It's like, yeah, fuck,
did something did something like crazy, but really just needed
a hug.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
And it's just so many of these things. I'm like,
you just need like.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
One person like aware, like one person being aware of
what was going on your left be like hey no no, no, no,
no no, that's an MLM, or like uh no no no, no,
no no no manosphere, manosphere or no.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
No no, no no no. We don't abuse women.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
And the thing that you're being kind of continually pushed
to do in the real world is put out more
videos that will get more people to subscribe to Tate services.
And if you get out enough, if you have a
certain people watching you, you get affiliate status, right, which
is where you get a cut of people who join
and you pay inditate programs through your videos. So top
war room generals act as social enforcers, using humiliation to

(46:32):
force young men to go into war mode, where they
would labor for days off in sixteen to twenty hours
at a time with very little sleep in order to
make tate content go viral. States were required to post
four to six videos a day and harassed with their
if their metrics weren't good enough. And you know, I
would make more about how horrible this is, but a
lot of this just sounds out how like working about
Facebook is right now, So I don't know, could be

(46:54):
a better boss, could be worse both. In the war
Room itself, discussion tended to focus around sharing clips of
text with messages from different women members who were pursued
from different women that members were pursuing or trying to
converse into what we would call trafficking. The most granular
write up of how people converse in the War Room
documentary and the War Room come from the substack of

(47:15):
a guide called Crabman, who is the source for the
NBC's documentary. Right. He brings them some of these leaked
documents and he takes great pains to break down what's
going in in the on aage of these discussions. In
one chat in the Great Hall, which seems to be
a general discussion area, Tristan described how well trained Andrew's
girls are and that girls who don't play ball are expelled.
Crabman rights, here's the thing. It's all the game to Andrew.

(47:37):
He tells our warroom members, you have to risk it
all by losing to get to the next bet. Sometimes
you lose. I've lost.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Girls.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Doesn't always work, but that's why you got to find
new ones. And the ones that it does work for,
those are the ones you keep. That's just how you
build a good harem of girls, you know, because some
girls just like it. Some girls system the system works,
but if we have another guy, they kind of have,
like or whatever, outside influences. Sometimes you do them when
you play hardball. But I play hardball ball anyway because
it's all I'm interested in. I want the one hundred,

(48:05):
I don't give want the five, so I'll gamble it.
That's the basic premise. Romantic yeah prick.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Now.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Andrew blames that this PhD test alone, being able to
defend himself from angry women was fundamental to becoming a millionaire.
Right a little further down, though, in text within the
war Room, he complains that nothing he tries works as
well since he got famous right. Quote girls are too defensive.
They instantly assume you message every hot girl. It destroys

(48:34):
destroys PhD success rate seriously, unless you want to be
a sugar daddy, which I don't. So even he's like, yeah,
now that people know my face, nobody wants anything to
do with me.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
Yeah, it's your face, asshole, That's what it is.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
So he's just like basically admitting that, like, none of
this shit really works, but you just got to keep
trying and keep giving me money and yeah you'll get lucky.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah, exactly. So he's breaking that his old techniques don't
work since he's been verified on social media. Quote girls
are too defensive. They instantly assume you message every hot
girl destroys PhD success right, seriously, unless you want to
be a sugar daddy, which I don't. Other members post
pictures of cars that they purportedly bought with funds earned
by their harems, and give blow by blow accounts of

(49:19):
their own flirtation journeys. A popular thing to post are
messages from women that the poster has ignored as part
of Andrew's strategy hinders on denying attention in order to
build interest. So there's just like clips of women being
like when are you coming? Hi? Why are you ignoring me?
And like, see look at this win. I'm not responding
to this woman that I like. And it's just it's

(49:40):
both so dumb. Yeah, it's such like pickup artists and
sell stuff and also such again it's a dentist system.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Artist.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
It's negging. None of it's new. It's just been repackaged
in a way that it's been repackaged to sell an MLM. Right,
it doesn't matter if this works. Some number of men
will always I don't know if it's because of the
individual people they're going after or something about their care,
their their personal characteristics will be successful enough with this

(50:12):
to convince themselves that it's worth worth worthwhile. And ninety
nine percent will have nothing happen, but they'll pay for
long enough that it makes it worthwhile. Right, It's the
same thing with like, yes, some people sell Amway products,
or at least sell a few Amway products and then
get a lot of people to sign up for Amway,
and so they do make money. That's just about one
percent of Amway. Everyone else has kind of taken a bath. Now,

(50:33):
there's also kind of in the Vernieri vibe. Within these
kind of like the elite war room chats, there's a
lot of discussion on how to permanently mark women, which
is considered the open ultimate sign of success, that like,
you have gotten this person so in your spell that
you've gotten them to tattoo your name on their body.
This seems to be a core aspect of sivil wisest teachings.
I think he's the main person who introduced this. It's

(50:55):
kind of unclear to me, but all these guys are
constantly posting either them a tempting to convince women to
do this, and you know there's this mix of like
people saying no and getting dumped. So this message here
is between like Tate. She's like showing him a tattoo
that she's got, and he's saying, like, I want you

(51:15):
to get my name tattooed on you. I don't want
this like other tattoo. And she's asking him, like when
will we get married? And he says, you know, now,
as soon as you get the tattoo, and she's like, okay,
but then if you leave me, I'll still have your
name on my body and that's kind of fucked up.
And he's like, why would I leave? Are you saying
you're not going to be good to me? There's kind

(51:36):
of the most at the end here is she Eventually
he says, yes, it'll make me happy if you get
this tattoo, and she says, okay, I'll do it. I
cannot write great. My dad does not have to see.
So I don't know how old this girl is. Too young,
it's very young. Again, this is these are the people

(51:57):
that they are being reached out towards, right.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
These are not adults.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
They're not people who are like, have mature brains.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
Yeah, bigas but Shelby with your fingers, how big?

Speaker 4 (52:07):
I'm very comfortable.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, it's gross.

Speaker 5 (52:11):
Now.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
The messages posted here are from back in twenty nineteens.
This is an older era of the war room, and
it's hard to say where things are now with the
culture there. Since the beginning of the litigation against Andrew,
when he was initially incarcerated, he made a lot of
claims that his war room friends would watch out for
his interests and even take care of his stuff while
he was away. There is an extent to which this

(52:33):
seems to be true, and we know of the network
suggest an intricate community and a number of people who
do have resources and this kind of cult like devotion
to Andrew and to the group. Now there's been some
good work done to kind of layout who is involved
in this community. The BBC documentary did a lot of it.
Dullingcat did an article on it. One of these guys,

(52:55):
you know, these people who are like these are both
folks who are presumably paying Andrew thousands or tens of
thousands of year a year, but are also like working
and getting money of their own. You might call them
the high level amway distributors of the war Room in
the real world. One of them is a guy who
has a YouTube channel called Sartorial Shooter. He's a former
Australian soldier and a current Dubai resident a lot of

(53:18):
Dubai residencies here, who claims to have gone into the
intelligence world and worked all around the planet. He claims
to have weapons and tactics trading facilities everywhere. Now, as
is always the case with these guys, that's a bit
of an exaggeration. His real name is Joel Sullivan. He's
one of the leading lights of the war Room. Bellincat

(53:38):
revealed that he was a former director of international security
for a global healthcare company, which is not a nothing job,
but it's not exactly James Bond.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
He wants you to think he's like out here being.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
He's some sort of like mercenary special operator spines like
now you worked for like a healthcare company directing security,
and again there's not nothing that, but it's not quite
what you're claiming it is exactly. Yeah. Another key general
of Andrews goes by the Twitter title First Prince of Wudan,
which will remember is he's got this sort of pretend

(54:11):
mythic story about how he learned to be a martial
arts master. The actual guy behind this account is a
current Delta pilot and a former US Air Force major
who the BBC detailed posting about his use of Tates
techniques to try and coerce women into doing sex work
for his financial benefit. Yeah, it's all just like the
grossest dudes. Like some of them do have money, so

(54:36):
it is like, it's not like these are like the
people at the top. Number one, they're generally people who
have had a degree of success before getting involved in
andrew Tates things. So number one, they have some money
of their own, so they're able to like bootstrap themselves
until they can make money getting you know, affiliates, basically
pulling people in and selling them on subscriptions which they

(54:58):
seem to get a cut of. And they're also just
people who have been more successful. They're older, so they
can kind of replicate some degree of the scams that
Andrew has carried out. And I really think like that's
all that's going on here with these guys. None of
them are. Andrew wants them to look like they're like
the secret masters of the world, and they're not that.
They're guys who are probably making like mid to low

(55:18):
six figure salaries, like they're doing well. They've got positions
that afford them a decent degree of income and they
want to be more. And so I think a lot
of this for them and why it's worth, you know,
a pilot that kind of income you can afford to
throw eight grand at some shit like this, especially if
you're making some of it back through whatever the affiliate
scheme pays you, and maybe the fantasy of being part

(55:41):
of this like elite group of men is worth more
to you than whatever amount of money that you kind
of burn going on.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
It's like speaks to a larger issue, like it's not
about the money for them or like trying to get rich.
It's like a deeper issue like the control of women
and manipulating people and everything.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Now there's a lot that I could
really get into, like more stuff about all this here.
One of the more difficult parts of doing this was
knowing how to what to cut out and what to include.
I do want to note one thing, which is that
some of the one of my favorite uh uh, one
of my favorite side facts of this is there's some

(56:19):
messages that Tristan Tate posts to the warm about how
a guy named Ivan Throne is crashing on their couch
in Romania. Have either of you heard of Ivan Thrown No,
So he's he's he's a really low grade man fluencer hack.
He's like a big bearded dude who always poses in
like a suit or he's got like kind of like

(56:41):
a fucking go tee. He always poses in a suit.
He wrote this book about like the dark triad Man,
which is like, I know, using the power of sociopathy
in order to like make yourself a better business leader
or whatnot. And he used to do he did. He
had a tight style griff that just didn't do well
called throne Dynamics, where like men would pay to go
to these summits where they'd eat steak and smoke cigars

(57:04):
and talk about, you know, make connections about their their
great businesses, which are again mostly like pick up artistry,
like right wing like like low grade right wing propaganda bullshit.
And the reason I bring up Ivan is that he
was part of my favorite moment in the history of Twitter.
So I'm going to share that with you. So he
posts a picture of there's this like very photorealistic statue

(57:26):
of like a beautiful young white lady with long flowing hair.
The fabric work on the statue is really nice, Like
you can see she's got this sheer shirt. It's like
it's it's like a sexy sculpture right, Like it's definitely
meant to be and anost she's gotten nipples.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
It's provocative.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
It's provocative, and even posts this to his Twitter account
and says, this is called art. This is the legacy
and heritage of the West. This is what the men
of the West fight, sacrifice and die for. This is
victory hashtag deis volt and one of his followers asks him,
is there an example of a female sculptor who committed
himself to the same level of detail that a man

(58:04):
does with a woman. And Ivan responds, none that come
to mind. That sculpture's an act of worship before Heaven
and it shows. And someone just responds with a picture
of the artist next to its sculptor and says, the
sculptor is a Chinese woman, You dorkass looseness fucking knocked
he and he just like that was it for Ivan,

(58:24):
Like I understand why he's crashing on Andrew tates couch
for a while, because that just fucking nukes him as
a human, going and learning that like Tristan Tates his buddy,
and he was like bumming like CouchSurfing with the Tates
in twenty nineteen twenty. Extremely fucking funny to me. Now.
One of the other things that's kind of missed, the
great mysteries that's answered from these leaks is why Andrew

(58:46):
keeps coming back tromania, which I had to have to
admit as I kept looking through like what he's doing,
what's going on with him? This was like a constant
thing for me, like why in the fuck is this
guy not He's got he does have money. He's not poor.
He's got millions at least that they still didn't have
access to. They didn't get everything. He has friends in Dubai,
he is able to. He could get a permanent residency
in the Dubai. And if you think you might go

(59:08):
to prison for all of your sex crimes and you're
this guy, Dubai is where you want to wind up.
And the fact that he visited and then came back,
that he went back to Romania. I didn't know why
until I found this post of his on the war
room that I think kind of explains it. Right. I've
been everywhere, and let me tell you a few things.
The world is basically the same. Temples and churches are bullshit,

(59:30):
and you're better off finding the best spot you can
and becoming a local force than float around all day
like a digital nomad dork. There's no club on Earth
better than the club here in Romania. I have twenty
girls at the table, Security knows me, no one fucks
with me. Why leave? And I think that really gets
right down to it is he's like he's found his place,
and he's pretty confident that Romania will botch the prosecution

(59:52):
against him enough that he can continue to live there.
And I think he doesn't really want to live in
Dubai because as much of a like stereotypical place as
it is for guys like him, it doesn't have the
same kind of opportunities for the sort of debauchery that
he's into, right. It just there. It's a stricter culture
in some ways than that even for some guys with money,

(01:00:13):
and he could if he was posting the kind of
videos that he tends to post, he could get in
trouble at some point. And I think he's just he's
just convinced of the fact that he can make this
work for himself. That's that's really what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Yeah, and that's a god in Romania, is like why
would I go anywhere else? Like I write pretty good here?

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Yeah, and he might get away, yeah you know, Yeah,
all right, that's what I got. That's the Andrew Tate update.
That's where he is right now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
So it sounds like he's still a piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Okay, still a piece of shit. Update Ill, yep, update,
you gross guy. We're done with him for a while. Again,
Probably don't have to go back to Andrew taituh for
a minute, until until some of this court cases get
more adjudicated. Right, yeah, yeah, I guess yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
Gross.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
So that's it. That's our update on Andrew.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Uh, and you have anything you want to plug.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
I just want to plug the Los Angeles Lakers and
Mike Glorious King Lebron James. The playoffs are about to start,
Lakers in five That's all I gotta say. And Uh,
listen to Hood Politics. It's a good show.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Listen to Hood Politics. It's a good show. Don't subscribe
to the war Room, Sophie. We should have a place
people can give us eight thousand dollars a year if
they want to. Wouldn't that be nice?

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Coolest, the coolest Zone Media.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
We're not.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
We're not that desperate.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Give me eight thousand dollars Zone Media.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Wherever I ask you for eight thousand dollars, it's not us.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
It's a scam terribly.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
I say, it's definitely me. Yeah, you know, in which
case it's definitely me. I would never lie to you
unless someone cloned my my voice with AI, in which
case I would definitely that we.

Speaker 5 (01:02:00):
Lie to you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
Oh God, you know, Andrew Tate isn't great.

Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
My mate, Lakers.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Lakers.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
I'm gonna like stand outside in the sun or some ship.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
They don't even play today. I'm just excited.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Yeah great.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool
Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the
Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday
and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

(01:02:45):
at Behind the Bastards