The Ballad of Doctor Orgasm

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, legally the only podcast
on the internet, so I hope you all have no
other choices. So I'm sure we've got We've got a
big audience today of the entire world listening in um
as I have used my congressional connections to ban all
other podcasts, any other podcast. You're listening to our our

(00:24):
illegal podcast now, which actually makes mine less cool. This
is probably a bad call in any case. Uh, this
is a show about bad people, but very worse people
in all of history. And my guest today is Sharine
Lana Unash. You're back. I'm back, that's my own home.

(00:46):
How do you feel about me gaslighting my audience about
the fact that there are no other podcasts in order
to keep them keep them locked into my content stream.
I'm I actually found it very entertaining and ingenious in
a way that I wasn't expecting. I think making them
believe this is the only source, you know, like you're
making You're making yourself essential to them. You're you're there. Yeah. Yeah.

(01:09):
People talk a lot about like the downsides of gas lighting,
but nobody talks about how good it can be for
making money with a podcast. I mean the reality the
inverse the inverses like, the reality is there's so much
to be consumed, but you just constantly telling them there isn't.
I think that's pretty smart, I will say, though, the
word ingenious doesn't make that much sense to me. This

(01:29):
is a side note completely just semantic. Uh. Thing I
just realized is that genius is smart, but then ingenious
should being not smart, just because of the way that
prefix is usually used. But in this case it means
even more smart, which is just my own. This is
how my brain works now. I don't know how to
have conversations. It's very I'm frustrated by ingenious and I'm

(01:51):
frustrated by inflammable. And I know there's like a small
quadra of of grammar obsessives who have will explain how
it completely makes sense that both of those words mean
what they mean. UM, I don't care. Um I disagree
with grammar regular I regular. I regular disagree with grammar often,

(02:12):
me too, me to um So. Sharine, you are the
co host of the Ethnically Ambiguous podcast, and my friend
and co worker, and um you know, and a really
talented filmmaker and a talented filmmaker UM Award winning filmmaker.
And there's really no other way to to just launch

(02:36):
into this episode than by saying, how do you, um,
how do you feel about orgasms? Oh, you're welcome for
booking you on this. Um, now I know why Sophie
told me I was coming in blind and now I
was thinking about what I was getting myself into before

(02:56):
I turned on my microphone, before I agree to jump
on this call. This was not anywhere in the realm
of my Okay, well, I think orgasms are great. Um yeah,
I wouldn't know though personally if we really want to
get intimate here right off. Hasn't been even three minutes

(03:18):
of this podcast. I don't know. I've never had one,
so wow. Okay, Well, um yeah, that actually is kind
of on topic, Sharine, because um yeah, that's was I
selected for this on purpose? Or is this this is
this can't be a coincidence. Yeah, I just yeah, I
thought we talk about grifters together, and our subject today

(03:42):
is a grifter, so I thought you'd enjoy talking about him. Um,
And I decided to open things with that incredibly inflammatory question. Um,
because because it's my podcast and I'm a monster. Wait,
is the question relevant? Yes, it's extremely relevant. Yeah, we're
we're talking about it. I who goes by the nickname
doctor orgasm Um cute. Yeah. Uh So it's probably not

(04:10):
a surprise to anyone listening or to any of us
that that men and women have have very different orgasm experiences.
And this is rooted heavily and evolutionary biology. Um. And
one of the things that illustrates this difference is the
incredible density of studies and articles about studies, UM, all
trying to unravel what's often described as like the mystery
of the of the vaginal orgasm um. It's seen. Yeah, yeah,

(04:35):
and it's I mean, this is really funny to be Okay,
I need to like be candid here. Sure, during this
whole quarantine thing, like like the the me not having
me not experiencing this feeling that everyone else seems to
like relation has been this like thorn in my side
for like most of my adult life, and I think

(04:56):
this this whole entire quarantine time has I've been doing
a lot of research on this to be honest about
like why someone would have more trouble than others, Like
what it means to actually let go and like experience
and receive pleasure like I have a lot of difficulty
receiving good things, including like just like even just like
feeling nice. And I've been this is this is actually

(05:19):
hilarious that we're talking about this because I've been like
genuinely like studying like like the ways to make myself
feel okay enough to experience this thing that has always
been this like this inside joke that everyone else understood.
And I also think women talking about this pressure, they

(05:39):
don't talk about it enough. Like I don't think the
society at large talks about women trying to overcome this
pressure if they're not like already in the know of
how to utilize or or like receive pleasure. And so anyways,
I feel like I've done my homework, even without meaning
to I had. I did not know this about you

(06:02):
going into the episode. Um, but that's actually gonna be
helpful in terms of trying to like parse this out
because this is a more confusing episode. It's not impossible
this is a medical grifter um who claims to be
able to cure women's who haven't who have trouble or
an inability to have orgasms, And for a number of reasons,

(06:23):
I'm fairly certain he's a grifter. Um, but you can
find some people, some women who say that he helped them,
and it's a very complicated story. And it's more complicated
due to the fact that, like we as I'm sure
like your research has suggested, we don't really have a
great we don't really have a great scientific lockdown on
the vaginal orgasm, right like it's it's it's Um, there's

(06:46):
a lot that's kind of up in the air about
it from a research standpoint. I mean, everyone's just so different.
I think that's pot boils down to there's no like
there's no just like I don't know to put to
be crude, there's no like pump that you just like
go at until something comes out of. It's not like
I don't know, Yeah, men literally have a button that
you can press. Yeah, exactly exactly. It's it's not for

(07:10):
men or it's not for you know, people with people
with uh, what's the most appropriate term to use? Wing
dang doodles. Um, The wind dang doodle orgasm is a
pretty simple thing, right, Um. Yeah, it's it's straightforward as
self explanator. But I think, like, uh, I don't want
to get sorry, I keep taking over this conversation. No, no, no,
I mean you're that that's why you're here. Please take it,

(07:33):
take it over. Like so when you're a boy, when
you're like a prepubescent boy, like it's it's understood that
you're going to be going through changes, that you're going
to be going through puberty, and that means like exploring
your body like a wet dream for a guy is
a pretty standard point of puberty. For girls, you're never
encouraged or even told to explore yourself, and that makes

(07:56):
you feel even not even on purpose, but it makes
you feel a lot of shame about your body. And
I was raised pretty sheltered and I didn't I remember
really disliking my I was disgusted by my my genitals,
like I didn't understand them. I didn't under like I
there was a good portion of time before I like
embrace my sexuality. And I'm still like overcoming those things

(08:18):
now because of how you're raised as a girl just
to like shut it down and to protect yourself and
to not be a sexual being because that invites unwanted attention.
And so I think being raised like that and never
like being encouraged to explore yourself, it leads to adult
women needing to figure it out even after they've already

(08:41):
had sex for the first time or the second time
or the thirtieth time or whatever. So um, yeah sorry, no, no, no, no, yeah.
And it's it's one of the other things that it
does is because there's so little conversation about this, and
especially so little conversation that's like had an uh a
kind of I don't know, um structured way like our

(09:03):
our our educational system doesn't build this in and most
parents feel too awkward to really talk about it. And
so because a lot of women don't ever get to
have these conversations and grow up like with this thing
of like I I don't know how to experience this,
I don't know how to like get like like this
this kind of mystery about their own bodies. Whenever there

(09:24):
is a black hole of knowledge like that, it provides
an incredible opportunity to grifters. Um. It's the same reason
why when you have a huge virus hit, right, like
all these people start cropping up and and are able
to make claims like oh, we know how I know
how to cure this, I know how to treat this
is because like this weird mysterious thing that people don't
understand is a problem, and there's kind of a vacuum

(09:48):
of official information and there's a lot of there's actually
like a pretty decent sized industry of grifters who just
target women who are aren't able to orgasm or or
don't orgasm is often as they want to. Like that's
a big Like even when I was in India, there
were huge like tantric sex uh institutes, and like if
you spent enough time in the towns where they were located,

(10:09):
you would start hearing stories about the men who ran them,
and they were like almost I'm not gonna say tantric
sex is bad, but all of these all of these
guys were basically cult leaders, right like like that's this um,
it's just this this thing that happens um And yeah, yeah,
it's so unfortunate, and it makes me so enraged because

(10:31):
I understand that like like like this desperation to just
feel something that you're you're led to believe is like
a very human, primal thing, and you feel you feel
almost broken that you can't experience it, like coming from
my experience, like I maybe I was just maybe it

(10:52):
was it's like too late, or like maybe I wasn't
raised correctly or maybe I know it's it's why can't
my body do this? And so you become an adult
and you become so desperate to figure out how to
do these things. I can I can see someone getting
misled just because desperation will lead you to do that.
And and it's it's this really um intimate and brutal

(11:17):
thing to experience in with yourself. To to have that
being taken advantage of is so criminal in my opinion,
because it's just I'm just mad. Yeah, you'll get you'll
get time on the show. So, but before we get
into this specific orgasm grifter, I do want to talk

(11:37):
I wanted to go over a little bit of like
orgasm research, um so just to kind of talk about
like what's out there right now, which will help explain
some things that are going to come into the story
later on. So again, there's not a lot that's like
ironed out known for sure about the vaginal orgasm. Some
researchers suggests that that they play a psychological role in reproducttion. Obviously,

(12:00):
like there's no question about the role of the male
orgasm and reproduction, but there is a question for um, yeah,
the vaginal orgasm and the like. Uh. So the researchers
who suggest a psychological rules say that basically, because these
orgasms feel good, it makes people with vaginas want to
have more sex, which leads to more babies. And this
is like pretty logical, right. You can at least you

(12:21):
can see a through line there. Um. Yeah, so uh.
One thing that these folks will point out is that
solitary animals such as cats, have what's called male induced ovulation. Uh.
And that's where an egg is only released uh from
the ovary during sex. Um. And there is evidence that
cats orgasm in case you were curious, we know they

(12:43):
release prolactin, which is a hormone that human ladies get
flooded with when they orgasm and when they ovulate. Sixteen
study I found suggested that the hormone release with the
orgasm is probably an evolutionary holdover from when our ancestors
moved from induced opulation and like cats, to the spontaneous
ovulation that that we currently enjoy. Um. Enjoy might be

(13:06):
the wrong word there, but like, yeah, so that's that's
one theory. Um. And this study suggested that once ovulation
once like in our evolutionary timeline. When ovulation stopped depending
on like a man or you know, a penist getting
in there. Uh, the clitterest moved from inside the vaginal
canal to its current position. Um. And one piece of

(13:27):
good news from all of this is that the clitterest,
evolutionarily speaking, is not going to go away anytime soon. Um.
The penis evolves from the same part of the embryo.
So as long as uh, there are wing dang doodles,
there will be clitter e. So that's good news. If
anyone was worried about losing those in a couple of
thousand years sciences, yeah, yeah, I was concerned. It also

(13:47):
means that men are going to keep their nipples. Yeah, yeah,
I was worried. Yeah. Well no they are not. They
absolutely are not a lot of uses for male nipples. Um.
You can hang stuff off them, that's mostly yeah. So
uh yeah, I think that's that's good background to get

(14:11):
because the medical grifter we're talking about today, UM is
a doctor who claims to be able to vastly increase
the likelihood and quality of women's orgasms, and he does
this by injecting their own blood back into their labia. UMU. Yeah,
this is probably nonsense, although it is not definitively nonsense,
because the exact kind of treatment this guy is using

(14:34):
is still something that's that's being studied. Um. But this
is a case where there it's possible there's some validity
to what he's doing medically, but the doctor himself is
absolutely a piece of ship and a grifter. Um. And
the fact that he has a huge populic Yeah. Yeah,
more I'm intrigued. Yeah, this is a This is an
interesting one. So the fact that this doctor has a

(14:56):
sizeable population of interested customers is doing large part to
the fact that, as we kind of lead this episode
talking about vaginal and cluatoral orgasm are actually pretty rare.
People with penises report orgasms about of the time and
heterosexual encounters, while people with vaginas report orgasms only about
fifty percent of the time. Um. The reasons for this

(15:17):
are hotly debated, but they actually kind of seem pretty
obvious to me based on just the data. So, for
one thing, age, education, and income all increase the likelihood
of orgasm um for people with vaginas. Yeah. And this
suggests that knowledge and particularly kind of knowledge of one's
self and one's biology increases your odds as a vagina

(15:37):
have r of having an orgasm. Uh yeah, yeah yeah. Um.
Only about of people with vaginas orgasm from casual sex,
while seventy orgasm and committed relationships. And to me this
suggests the same thing, which is that orgasms are at
least somewhat a project of knowledge, and having a partner
who knows your bits increases your chance of having an orgasm.

(15:59):
And and I will say I didn't like say the
word masturbation earlier when I was talking about like exploring
your body or anything, but I do think the fact
that we don't talk about women masturbating and like we're
not really like they're I mean, like now they're like
we're being more progressive. There's a certain section of like
youth that's like really all about talking about it. But
when I was growing up, I didn't masturbate. Like I

(16:21):
didn't know how. I didn't know. I still low key
don't really know how. So because it's just I'm not
I'm still trying to understand like like how to receive pleasure.
I'm so bad at receiving anything that alone like a
compliment or like like how much is to receive a
fucking orgasm for myself. Um. But I think our obsession

(16:43):
with only talking about male pleasure and male masturbation leads
women to never understand like they don't have the knowledge
about how to feel good sexually because they're not encouraged
to it, and there there's just so much shame around it. Um.
And even like I remember watching porn when I was
like a teenager purely as like studying it, like I

(17:06):
just wanted to understand what it, like, what people were
up to, Like what was this thing I was missing?
And every time they would show like a woman masturbating,
it was this like just crude, like just like it
was just so it wasn't good enough, Like it didn't
it didn't work, you know what. I don't know if
that makes sense. It's just it made seem too easy. Um.

(17:31):
And uh, sorry, I keep getting distracted. I'm just no, no, no,
I mean bringing up a lot of ship Robert yeah,
ship Yeah. I mean, And you're not You're you're very
far from alone in that, because, like you know, the
data suggests like this is a hugely common problem. Um.
Just in general, people who have vaginas not orgasm ng
as often as they would prefer. UM is very common

(17:54):
and there are actually quite a lot of women who
have what's called female orgasmic disorder UM. And that's exactly
what it's sounds like. It's an inability UM to orgasm. Uh.
And it is also incredibly treatable. Sex therapy is successful
of the time. UM Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is a
thing that exists. There's treatment options in the data suggests

(18:16):
that they are very there. They are very often effective. Um.
But those numbers still leave a lot of unsatisfied people
with vaginas out there. Uh. And unluckily for them, doctor
Charles Reynolds is around to take their money. Charles Reynolds
is the inventor of the O shot, a controversial therapy
meant to correct a lack of vaginal orgasms. Dr Reynolds

(18:39):
has been branded doctor Orgasm by some and he's a
big old piece of ship. Now, if you've not heard
about his O shot, you may have heard about his
other groundbreaking medical treatments, the vampire facial. This is the
guy who did the vampire facial. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's
the same guy the vampire breast. Anything. But like coming

(19:03):
from a guy, I'm already wary of anyone that's like
I can give this, I can give women more orgasms,
Like what did a woman know the most intimately how
to do that? Like I'm already like I'm intrigued only
because like I'm so fascinated by the subject. But I
think just by default that that information, that claim coming
from a guy is already kind of like lose his

(19:25):
credibility for me because he will never understand one a
vagina is capable of you know what I mean, But
I don't know. Yeah, you won't, you won't change your
opinion on that over the course of this episode. Can't Wait.
So in addition to the vampire facial and the vampire
breast lift, Dr Reynolds is the inventor of the pre shot,

(19:46):
which is a needle that you shoot into your dick
to make your dick the orgasm better. UM. So he's
he's he has picked, he's picked a path for himself. UM.
And his path is his path is sucking people's blood
and then shooting it back into pieces of them to
gain kind of unclear medical benefits Like that's this the

(20:06):
guy's thing, um, and the specific medical treatment that he
is involved in, and that all really um, all of
his His his treatments are one second, the specific medical
treatment that he focuses on that kind of all of
these different things are a type of is called platement
rich plasma plasma injection or PRP injections or PRP therapy. Yeah. Yeah,

(20:33):
it's a mostly when it comes to like skin rejuvenation
and yes, increasing cell turnover and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah,
it's not. I don't think it's like I think there's
still as far as I know, like the very still
out as far as very much. Yeah, we'll talk about that.
It's certainly grown more popular over the years. UM And

(20:55):
and for folks who don't know you're familiar with I mean,
I guess a lot of people have are somewhat familiar
with this. But the basic idea is that a patient's
blood is drawn out and then put through a centrifuge,
and the centrifuge concentrates all of the platelets, which are
the blood cells that are largely responsible for the fact
that your blood has healing functions. UM. Those platelets are
then sucked back up and then injected into damaged or

(21:15):
diseased body tissue in order to stimulate healing. UM And obviously,
it makes sense that people would try this as a therapy, right,
Like the there's logic to like, oh yeah, I can
see how if you concentrate like the heally parts of
the blood and then shoot it into wounded Yeah, maybe
that'll work. It's it certainly falls under the list of
medical treatments. I was like, yeah, it was worth a shot.
People should have given it a yeah, well we'll give

(21:37):
it a go. Yeah. But it got really popular just
with like celebrities and stuff like, not like wounded or
damaged skin. It was just like to increase or too.
It was like marketed as like a you a youthful
like fountain of thing exactly. And it started. The very
first PRP therapies were in sports medicine UM and largely
kind of as a way for professional athletes and the

(21:57):
like to more rapidly heal from rotator cuff injuries and
sort of similar you know, wounds, the kind of stuff
that like, you know a lot of times like you
pull an ankle, you fuck your rotator cuff up, you
funk up a knee, and like it kind of stays
a little bit fucked up forever. And so this was
kind of they were trying to figure out how to
deal with that, right, Like, maybe we can accelerate the
body's healing so you can actually get this ship fixed. Yeah,

(22:19):
and there are there are some professional athletes and stuff
who swear by this treatment. The actual scientific data on
how well it works is very muddled. I found a
systematic review in the Cochrane Library that analyzed nineteen studies
on PRP therapies, and when they did a bias analysis,
only three of these studies were judged to be at
low risk of bias because obviously a lot of people
with financial interests in PRP therapy working fund studies into

(22:42):
whether or not PRP therapy works. Um. But even when
they kind of excluded the biased studies, the existent studies
didn't show evidence of any significant effect from PRP therapy.
There is some evidence that it might help reduce pain,
but that's really about all we can say conclude sibly.
There's a decent amount of evidence that it can help
reduce pain when you're healing from an injury. UM in

(23:05):
certain circumstances. There's really not nothing hard to support the
claims that it accelerates healing UM, which doesn't mean that
it doesn't because this is still pretty new, but like
the the jury is definitely still out and of course
there's there is no clinical I want to get this
right out of the way. There's zero clinical evidence that
it helps with work as ms that like like not

(23:27):
not a drop. That is just a wild yeah progression
of like yeah, like where else can I put blood? Yeah,
people are someone's blood Jesus man. Yeah, and it put
One of the things he's kind of taking advantage of
is that, surprisingly enough, like labial tissue, you can actually
do this kind of stuff and it doesn't really hurt,

(23:47):
um because the place that he injects it into there's
actually not a lot of like you don't have a
ton of of you don't know, like all of that
area isn't super sensitive, Like there's actually parts that aren't
because like it's meant to tear apart during childbirth and stuff. Um,
the way you word it that was very great. Yeah
that's not nice. Yeah, sorry, but it's like this is

(24:10):
where we all came from, Like we all I could
I could see how someone can rationalize this because when
you are when you're orgasming, when you're supposed to receive pleasure,
like all the blood is supposed to rush there so
that I could kind of rationalize this, this this concept
of like, well, if you're having trouble, then I'll just

(24:30):
put blood where they're you're supposed to have blood, and
then and then everything is solved. But it's not something yeah,
like all of the best bullshit medicine. There's a level
to which it makes kind of intuitive sense where you're like, oh, yeah,
this I can if you explain the idea of the
treatment to someone, just a random person on the street,
I think most people be like, Okay, yeah, I can

(24:52):
see how that might work. Like it's not inherently nonsense,
you know, the data suggests that it is, but it's
the the idea itself. It does kind of fall under
the yeah, probably it was worth trying, right, you know?
Oh my gosh. You know what won't inject your own
blood back into your genitalia. The products and services that

(25:12):
support this podcast have never done that, unless we are
running an ad for for the O Shot, in which
case please don't get that until you finished listening to
the podcast. We're back. Uh Okay, who were so? Speaking

(25:36):
of journeys? Before I start talking about how the O
shot came to be, I want to talk a little
bit about the clinical background of its inventor, one Dr
Charles Runnolds, a k A. Doctor Orgasm. Now. I became
aware of Dear Charles through the writing of one doctor
Jin Gunter, an O B G y N and an
author of a book called The Vagina Bible. She is

(25:57):
professionally angry at scammers who push nonsense medicine on the
vaginas of the world, and she is not a fan
of Dr Reynolds. I love her already. Yeah, yeah, she's
she She seems to know what she's talking about. Um
I she certainly has the professional qualifications to to be
talking about this subject. Absolutely. I just love an angry woman,

(26:18):
you know. I just love an angry woman, That's all
it is. Yeah, she's really angry, and I low key
not even low key because like a third of my
content is based on it. One of my very favorite
genres of things on the Internet is like furious doctors
writing about like medical scammers. I just I love that ship. Yeah.

(26:38):
Um so, as Dr jin Gunter points out, um, doctor Reynolds,
the the doctor Orgasm is an internal medicine doctor and
internal medicine doctors, uh, their training does not focus very
much on the vagina. During his medical school, Charles Reynolds
likely spent a pretty minimal amount of time studying gynecology. Uh.
He may have done a few months of residency at

(27:00):
a gynecological clinic, but that would have been the most
So if this orgasm doctor doesn't have a background in gynecology,
what's his background in? Well. On his own website, Dr
Renalds says that his first love was medical research, and
he lists his chief medical hero as doctor Verne Enforceman.
In nineteen nine, Enforceman performed the very first heart catheterization

(27:24):
on his own heart. Uh, and he this vern Enforcement
is a legitimate medical badass. Reynolds writes that this guy
quote tied the nurse down and cast his own heart,
then walked up three flights of stairs in order to
photograph it, and this is largely accurate, although the truth
is that the nurse agreed to let Dr Forceman tie
her up because he needed clean instruments and she had

(27:46):
access to them, and he might die doing this and
he didn't want it to get in troubles. It was
kind of like they were kind of doing this so
that if he died doing this, she wouldn't get blamed
for it. Um, that's why he tied her up. But yeah,
it's a cool story. It's actually like a really awesome medicals. Yeah.
Enforceman had this theory about how you could have catheterize

(28:07):
a heart, and he had been denied attend permission to
attempt it because it was seen as too dangerous. So
he decided he had to work it out do it
on himself, and he worked at a deal with the
nurse so that they could do this and not endanger
her life and career. Um. Why Dr Runold's idolizes Dr
Forceman will become clear presently. For right now, it's important
for people to know that Forceman spent a lot of
his life reviled by the medical community for his irresponsible

(28:29):
self experimentation. He was only recognized as a genius after
World War Two, when he finally received the Nobel Prize. Dr.
Forceman spent most of his life as a humble, grunt
level medical practitioner. He was a German military doctor in
World War Two, so he worked with like the Nazi army,
but he was like treating wounded people. Um, which is
I guess the least objectionable job you could have. Uh,

(28:51):
in Nazi Germany. Um. And then he was like a
town doctor. Like he was like a small town like
family physician for years and years and years. Um. And
after he won the Nobel Prize, he was actually offered
a fancy job running a German cardiovascular institute. Uh. And
he turned this down because he felt like he didn't
know enough to do the job well. Like he he

(29:12):
was like he was a very humble man. In other words.
Um So Dr renalds idolizes this man. And there's a
lot to idolize in Dr Forceman Nazi service aside, just
like it's it's it's a cool medical story. Um. And
when Reynolds first got his m D, his desire was
to be a medical researcher. Now, I don't have a
tremendous amount of detail about Dr Reynolds's early life, and

(29:34):
most of what we do have comes from an article
in The Guardian that will not bad is largely just
repeating what Renald says about his own early life. Uh.
He says that as a teenager he endured horrific cystic acne. Um.
This is not what most of us was described as
bad acne. I'm sure we all have a bad acne story.
He was one of those people whose, like, whole face
was just this oozing, painful mass of sores. Um. He

(29:56):
claims it was. Yeah, and I had there was at
least one kid at my school who had this kind
of acne. And it did. It did seem like a nightmare. Um,
it's brutal. Yeah. Reynolds claims that his acne was so
bad that he forgot what his own nose looked like. Um.
And yeah, there's not many worse ailments you could have
as a teenager. This was obviously disastrous for young Charles's

(30:18):
personal life. He recalls praying to God, if you could
make me attractive, I will find something good to do
with it. Um. And luckily for him, a miracle cure
soon did arrive. Dermatologists treated his skin with X rays,
which cured the cystic acne, but left him with a
lifetime of melanomas, which have required constant treatment in order
to stop from turning cancerous as an adult. Dr Reynolds

(30:39):
now claims that his childhood battle with cystic acne gave
him enormous compassion for people suffering from incurable conditions. The
pain of what I have called the hidden population. Uh. Now,
if this story is true, it's certainly easy to see
how it could have sparked his youthful desire to embark
on a career is a medical researcher, and that's exactly
what he did, but unfortunately he was not good at it.
In two thousands, or he got approval to conduct the

(31:01):
study on the efficacy of a new smallpox vaccine formulation.
He got approval to do this, but he did not
get approval to conduct the study on homeless people. However,
Oh my god, yeah we're getting God, Oh my god,
what a piece of trash. Yeah, yeah, he's not great, Like, okay,
I could have sympathy. I was just thinking, like, yeah,

(31:23):
I have a I have the emotional depth to to
understand empathy and to sympathize with someone that is that
that has really bad acne and is going through a
hard time self confidence or whatever. That does not give
you a fucking green light to Oh my god, what

(31:44):
a fucking piece of ship. Yeah he's a real piece
of ship. This study is is bad, Like, oh boy, howdy?
Um so he Uh. Basically, it's expensive to recruit subjects
for a vaccine study and it's hard. Um, but tricking
hoboes into letting you test drugs on their bodies is easy. Um,

(32:05):
and that's kind of just what he did. Uh. And
he did he did get approval to conduct the study
on people from a homeless shelter after he had already
started testing them. Um. Yeah, so he filled her forgiveness remation. Yeah.
And there's a lot of other shadiness. So he filled
his sample, grew up with men and women from a
local New Orleans homeless shelter. I think twenty two of them. Uh. And,

(32:27):
as the FDA later wrote, quote, you enrolled twenty one
indigent persons from a multi service center for the homeless
into either study. Uh. Only after enrolling eight of these subjects,
you received approval from the Institutional Review Board IRB to
enroll vulnerable subjects as described below. Regardless of the irby's
decision to reprove the enrollment of vulnerable populations, persons utilizing
the Multi Service Center for the homeless were unsuitable for

(32:50):
consideration for these studies for many reasons, including, but not
limited to the following. These individuals weren't suitable because they
were economically and or educationally disadvantaged. Some subjects could not
understand or follow the protocol requirements. For example, subjects in
IT list, a couple of subjects did not understand how
to measure his her temperature in order to complete his
her daily diary, as they reported body temperatures raising from

(33:11):
ranging from eighty four degrees fahrenheit to So one reason
why this was bad is because like these people had
to keep data on themselves in order for the study
to make be have any value, and they just weren't
competent to They didn't have the kind of education to
do that. Um the FDA has complaint continues. One requirement
for doctors doing these sorts of studies is that they
complete a vaccine risk Assessment questionnaire at least six times

(33:33):
during the study. The questionnaire asks about the health and
medication use of people to study subject lives with. This
is obviously a project for homeless folks who live in
a center because their household contacts include every person including
staff and volunteers at that center. UM. So this is
a huge problem because again, if you're testing medicine on

(33:53):
people to see if it works, you have to know
what other medications they're taking. You want to limit and
control for that, and have no fucking idea what people
at a homeless center, many of whom are addicted to
drugs themselves, are actually taking and you don't know what
they had the option to take. You just can't. It's
a bad group to use for a study like this. Um, Like,

(34:14):
there's the moral problem of of these of going of
conducting a study in these folks because a lot of
them have mental illnesses that mean that they can't really
provide informed consent um. And then there's also the fact that,
like you can't get good data out of these people
because like you can't control free of the things you
need to in a stay. There's a whole lot of
reasons this was the worst way to conduct to study. Yeah,

(34:34):
there's there's no upside. The upside is that it's cheap
and it it's easy if you don't care about actually
performing a good study. Um. But that that that like
kind of the gates his entire like ethos that he's
like self proclaimed right, like it just yeah, yeah, it
sure does. So there were a lot more problems too,

(34:57):
Like we're not even done with this ship. Dr Rerunnold's
got his his institution research board to approve him to
have an impartial witness observed the informed consent discussion that
he got while recruiting these homeless people to act as
guinea pigs. So that was how he got He got
permission after the study started to use homeless people as
test subjects, and the way he did this was by
promising to have an impartial witness who can make sure

(35:17):
that these people were providing informed consent um And obviously
the purpose of this was to avoid a ghoulish situation
where mentally iller drug addled individuals were tested with experimental
medications in exchange for money without understanding that they'd agreed
to be tested tested with experimental medications in exchange for money.
That would be a horrible thing. Um, So thank god
he had an impartial witness, right, Wow, thank god, you're

(35:41):
glad he had an impartial witness, right, motherfucker. But he
had acne. He had really bad acne though, so he's
allowed to do this. Oh my god, I hate him.
I hate him. You want to hear who was impartial
witness was? Yeah, another homeless person that he was testing
drugs are. Oh my god, he's such a piece of ship.

(36:06):
Like pure evidence. This is pure evidence of him repeatedly
taking advantage of those who are vulnerable. Like whether it's
women that can't orgasm or people that like have no
other choice, you're still taking advantage of people that are vulnerable.
And like that's like on a one grift? What a
one come on? Yeah, and it gets worse, Like this

(36:28):
is honestly one of the worst scientific studies I've ever
heard of anyone conducting. So obviously, people who are conducting
proper medical studies are supposed to do a lot of
research to understand the pre existing conditions of members of
the study, So like you look at how their bodies
doing before you start putting meds on them. This is
to avoid endangering people and to ensure that like the

(36:48):
folks conducting the study learning as much as possible about,
you know, how certain medications affect people with different health conditions.
So obviously are all of Dr Reynolds's patients underwent e
k G s and blood and urine samples. But Charles
just didn't tell his i RB about any of the
adverse health conditions that he revealed in this process. Um,
so a bunch of people were found with heart problems,
he just didn't say anything about it. Uh And in fact,

(37:10):
one of his subjects after being medicated, was hospitalized for
chest pain. And he also didn't tell the IRB about that,
um for more than two weeks. Um, so that's all
really bad. Um, it's it's horrible, Like this is one
of the worst. Like if you're if you're a science person,
read read the the FDA's complaint about this study because

(37:31):
it's shocking how bad it is. The gist of how
is he still allowed to practice medicine after this? Like
that's what well, that's what we're bill are for. Oh
my god, he was yeah, so um yeah. The gist
of all this is that Dr Reynolds used homeless folks
as test subjects and took the actions to obscure the
fact that many of them didn't understand what was being
done to them. He covered up their illnesses, all of

(37:53):
this horrible stuff. In two thousand eight, the f d
A investigated him for this and initiated disqualification proceeds against him,
and he was disqualified from working as a clinical investigator
in two thousand nine as a result of this investigation.
UM Dr Jim Gunter explains what that means. Quote, getting
disqualified by the FDA means a clinical investigator has repeatedly

(38:15):
or deliberately failed to comply with applicable regulatory requirements, or
the clinical investigator has repeatedly or deliberately submitted false information
to the sponsor or, if applicable to the f d
A in any required report. A disqualified clinical investigator is
not eligible to conduct any clinical investigation that supports an
application for a research or for marketing permit for products

(38:36):
regulated by the FDA. So he gets banned from being
a medical researcher basically because he's so wildly irresponsible at
it um. Yeah, and obviously because he's a subject of
this show, so we know what happens. We know what happens.
He gets famous for the vampire fasial like he didn't

(38:58):
have a he didn't he didn't have a come up
and you know what I mean, This is not the
come up as show. This is enraging. This is not
the come up as show. Although if we were to
really dig into it, we could come up with a
good since this is an orgasm and based episode, a
good come joke based on the word come up. And
but I'm going to leave that to the listener to
put together in your own head. You know, what. Yeah.

(39:19):
I didn't think of that when I said it out loud,
but it's pretty there. You know, take it, take it
for yourself, makes the joke your own, you know. Yeah,
this is a d I O Y. The comedy in
this podcast is very often d I Y. It's the
only podcast out there, so take what you can get. Yeah,
we're like the IKEA of jokes about bad orgasm doctors. UM.

(39:41):
Not a lot of money in being that. I don't
know why we took this path anyway. Uh yeah. Obviously
being at the subject of this podcast, Dr Reynolds did
not learn it, goddamn think from his failures or from
his punishment. After he gets banned from conducting medical research
because of his how horrifically irresponds sable UM, he gets
fined in two thousands, also in two thousand nine, five

(40:03):
thousand dollars by the State Board of Medical Examiners of
Alabama for the misuse of hormone replacement therapy after he
massively overdosed two women with testosterone UM. Yeah. Yeah, and
he defends his actions by saying that the hormone doses
helped his patients um, just as he defends his actions

(40:27):
with the vaccine trial by saying that he didn't know
the subjects were homeless. Um. Yeah, he's he's just a liar. Um.
Now Yeah. Dr Reynolds again, when he gets talked about
his misuse of hormone replacement therapy because he overdosed women
with distosterone, UM, he will say that like it helped

(40:47):
his patients. And I wanted to know, like what he
meant by that, And eventually I was able to find
a video posted to his website, which is called the
Cellular Medicine Association, titled who is Charles Reynolds? Um. The
association is run by him, and he made this whole video.
He doesn't acknowledge that he was fined for doing this,
but he does talk about how he started doing testosterone
therapy for women. UM. And he again doesn't acknowledge that

(41:11):
he hurt people doing this, but he does say that, uh,
it gave them such high libidos that their husbands couldn't
keep up. Uh and so he started injecting their husbands
with testosterone. UM. And I can't tell you if that
happened or not, UM, but I can tell you that
doesn't sound like good medicine. I'm not a doctor, but Um,

(41:32):
that seems like a bad medical call. Uh so yeah.
Renalds says that in two thousand and ten he started
hearing about PRP therapy, which was then again mostly the
province of like sports medicine, although gynecologists had started using
the technique to inject platelets around the urethra of women
who experienced urinaryan continents. And it does seem to help
with that. Um, there's some some I don't know if

(41:54):
there's hard studies, but I know a lot of people
say it helps with that, and I haven't seen any
reason to believe it doesn't. UM. But I'm gonna let
Dr Reynolds himself explain what happened next. This is this
is Dr Charles Reynolds explaining what happens after he realized
that uh PRP therapy UM was was was being used
on people's faces. Back in two thousand and ten, someone

(42:17):
brought to me the centrifuge that had been used by
the orthopedic surgeons to prepare play ridge plasma for the
knees and by the dentists and wound care wound healing.
Excuse me, so, and the person bringing the centrifuge says,
this has been FDA approved for preparing plasma play towards plasma,

(42:41):
and if you use it, of course it's blood. The
blood's not FDA approved blood. The FDA doesn't approve your hair,
your urine, or your saliva or your blood, but they
have to approve the device that makes the plastma to
go back into your body. So he says, this has
been FDA airproof to prepare plasma to go back into
the body, and it's been shown two calls, new tissue growth,

(43:02):
new blood flow, new volume, and there's never been a
granuloma or serious infection or serious side effect from play
ridge plasma. You should try it in the face. So
I thought, oh, this is wonderful because if this works
in the face, I mean instantly, because I was tuned
into the sexual problems, I thought, if this works in
the face and does all those things, then this should

(43:23):
help the genitalia. So he's like, yeah, I saw that
this worked in the face, and I was like, well,
if this helps people's faces, then it clearly it helps
their genitals. Which nobody says that about anything, Like I'm
not like, well, because my straight razor helps me get
a nice shave, I should clearly shave my dick with
a straight razor. You don't, my god, Like what a

(43:46):
line of thought that makes so much sense, just to
jump from face to dick. Contact help my eyes, they
must help my paenis. But like I will say, um,
I didn't know what he looked like before watching that,
and I am like a little bit more than needed
to be upset, Like I I'm more upset than I

(44:07):
wanted to be. That the fact that he's not unattractive,
Like he's conventionally attractive, and it's proven that people trust
people that are attractive, like someone if someone is is
good looking, if they're tall, if they're built, if they're
if they have a charming way of speaking. He has
a deep voice, he has like a tick, a southern

(44:27):
what's that word, like twang or whatever to his like
like he he had like a drawl, like like he
is presenting himself as an alpha, and you're going to
trust that if you're vulnerable, like like even if he
was like that just makes me so I wish he wasn't.
I just but like it makes sense. The fact that

(44:47):
he's gone away with it makes sense a little bit
more than did before. Now in my brain, you know,
what you're saying is exactly why I think we should
just mandate disfiguring facial surgery for all American citizens. Um.
And you know who's here to help with mandatory disfiguring

(45:08):
surgery is our sponsors at Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, who
have developed a brand new knife missile that is just
gonna guarantee nobody gets trusted on the basis of their
attractiveness ever again. So please support Lockheed Martin in its
quest to disfigure all of us. Ye enjoy these other products.

(45:33):
So we're back again. I know a lot of doctors
actually listen to this podcast. We have a lot of
doctor fans, and I'm interested in their takes on the
clip that we just played as a layment. It seems
like competent medical researchers don't say if this works on
the face, it must be good for helping people. Fuck,
But I'm not an m D, so I'll leave that
to y'all. My sister is a doctor, and I know
she would shed all over this. Like I it seems

(45:56):
like a reach. I mean, like I want to bring
this up really quick, Like, do you know, I don't
know if the movie contagion had a huge up surge recently. Uh,
I don't want to. I guess this is like a spoiler,
but it's been around long enough then who cares. At
the end of the movie, like the cure comes about
because the lead researcher like injects herself with the medicine

(46:20):
or like or with the vaccine. And my sister as
a doctor, and I'm sure many doctors that watched this
movie like it's I know it's a movie, but it's
like kind of the same idea of like what this
person Dr Reynolds was like inspired by. It's like using
yourself as a martyr and using yourself as like this
hero to save the day. And and realistically that is bullshit,

(46:41):
Like that is it's a cool story, but it's not
a medically or or factually sound and it's really dangerous.
Like one medical professional would do that and he was like,
I don't know, Okay. The troubling part is that there
have been a couple of really groundbreaking medical professionals who
advance medical science because they were willing to dangerously experiment

(47:03):
on themselves. And it's it's kind of threading a needle
that's maybe too fine. For most people to want to
thread to say that, like, yes, people who were willing
to do that have advanced the frontiers of knowledge before,
and also to say, but it's still a bad idea
and we should have moved past that. Like right in
nineteen fucking twenty nine, some doctor who can't get approval

(47:24):
is like, well, fuck it, I'm just gonna try to
stint my own fucking heart. And it works, and it's
good that it did. Um, but also that was like
a century ago and we should not have to do
that anymore. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with you.
I totally agree that, Like there are some cases where
it's really been like groundbreaking and progress medicine. But I
think the fact that this doctor like was is caught

(47:48):
up in that particular narrative. It's a kind of telling
of the kind of doctor he was even trying to be,
Like he's more consumed with the story, He's not really
consumed with the medicine. You've hit on an incredibly important
point that he's consumed with the story, and the story
gets wilder from here on out. So strap in sharene
It's gonna be fun. Yeah. So, as that video goes on,

(48:13):
Dr Reynolds goes on to say that he read a
lot of papers. I think he says thousands, and I
don't think there are thousands which showed that PRP treatments
were effective in reducing signs of aging on the face,
which again, yeah, the evidence and also the evidence is
not overwhelming on that um. And so as a result
of reading a lot of papers, he decided to start

(48:34):
experimenting on himself with PRP facial treatments before he started
shooting stuff into other people's genitalia. Now, since he was
legally barred from conducting clinical trials, he just drumped right
into experimenting on people with his own PRP facial treatments. Uh.
Dr Reynolds began marketing them under the trademark name Vampire
Facelift UM, and I sorry, I got it wrong early.

(48:56):
I said he's responsible for the vampire facial. His trademark
name is the Vampire Face Lift. And you will see
when people advertise that they do vampire facials, they're actually
tech like legally ripping him off, um because his is
the vampire facelift. Yeah, I don't care, but it's from
a legal standpoint, it's important. He had acne he did

(49:16):
have acne. Now in this video, he claims that coming
up with he decided he had to trademark this thing
before there was really any hard evidence that it worked, because, uh,
that's this would be important for him being able to
responsibly treat people. See if he just called his PRP
for his story and for his finances, if he just

(49:40):
called He says that if he just called this like
PRP facial by the names other people were using, vampire
therapy was a common name, then any bullshit doctor could
claim to be providing his therapy. And what if they
accidentally hurt someone? So he claims that he had to
trade market so that he could avoid people getting hurt. Um, Yeah,
that nonsense, But I think that's nonsense. Vampire Facelift is

(50:02):
a good media ready name, and trademarking it allowed him
to license his treatment to other doctors and make passive
income from thousands of practitioners that he trains, often in
online courses, who basically act as franchise ease. Uh. Interestingly enough,
Charles denies uh that anything he does is that what
he does is anything like franchising. So he says that
like this is not franchising. What I'm doing, and in

(50:25):
the same breath that he claims it's not like franchising,
he compares the name vampire Facelift to the trademark golden
arches of McDonald's, which is amazing. Yeah, he's it's pretty
That whole video is pretty fun to listen to. So
Charles insists the whole reason that he did this was
to ensure a consistent standard of care and insist that

(50:46):
everyone abide by the same stringent practices he does, and
spoilers someone advertising a knockoff vampire facial like a year ago,
got two people infected with hiv um and they weren't
people that runld That trade had rain so he was like, well, look,
this is what I'm saying, Like, these people are using
a knockoff and they got folks sick. But it's like, yeah,
they got folks to buy their treatment by using the

(51:08):
name that was as close as possible to the one
you use. Um. Yeah. Anyway, So for the next couple
of years, Dr Runnelds made a name for himself and
a new fortune as the inventor of the vampire Facelift.
His dream of injecting people's blood back into their own
vagina as though had to lay dormant for a while
as he grappled with fame and expanded his clinic. But then,

(51:28):
as Dr Rynolds tells it, one day, fate in the
form of his girlfriend forced his hand. Oh buddy, we
are heading in for one of the most irresponsible stories
of a medical experimentation I I can conceive of, and
it is a fun one. So as Dr Rynolds tells
this story, uh yeah, there's a number of different versions

(51:51):
of the story that he's he's given. I prefer the
one written up by a journalist from The Guardian who
interviewed Runnels, and I'm going to read that now. Quote
Charles Rynolds. Lover's surprised him at his office, demanding that
he inject blood into her clitteress as a Valentine's Day present.
She hiked up her dress, hopped onto the exam table,
and motioned for Rynolds to put on his head lamp.
She explained that she'd been watching him inject his own

(52:12):
penis with blood for about a year, and that while
his bigger and stronger erections had been fun, she'd grown
tired of the one sided sexual enhancement. It was her turn,
so Runolds bowed between her legs, numbed her clitter us
with an ice cube, and shot her up. I don't
know how graphic you can be with this thing, he
said over the phone, pausing mid story to ask me
about the Guardians policy and discussing orgasms. But the next

(52:34):
afternoon she came to see me, and her orgasms came
more quickly, very strong ejaculatory orgasms. The passion, the thunder,
the sound she was making, he sighed at the memory.
That's when I thought I should try this on my patients.
And I know the fucking the doctors listening to this

(52:54):
have their fucking jaws on the floor right now. Oh
my fucking god. Yeah, that is a story, another chapter
in this story. I hate him also like if this
umh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, I
just thought I should, Yeah, I should try this on

(53:15):
my patients. It's amazing. So I'm not a doctor. Saw you.
I saw you injecting your penis this whole time, and
I was give me some of that good blood. So um,
I'm not a doctor, but the American Medical Association is
a doctor, and it seems to me and to Dr

(53:35):
Jim Gunter, from whom I found This pointed out that
this whole story is a very clear violation of the
Code of Medical Ethics, which states, quote, romantic or sexual
interactions between physicians and patients that occur concurrently with the
patient physician relationship are unethical. Such interactions detract from the
goals of the patient physician relationship and may exploit the
vulnerability of the patient, compromise the physician's ability to make

(53:56):
objective judgments about the patient's healthcare, and ultimately be trimental
to the patient's well being, which shouldn't need to be said,
but is written up there. Uh and this seems like
a clear violation of that to me. Um, I love that.
He added that she was like, grab your head lamb.
Like that's just like a clear like the keys making
this up. No, girlfriend is like, oh my god, grab

(54:19):
your needle and your head lamp Like no, yeah, it's
something else. So Dr Rynolds tells the story to reporters
as if it is a charming anecdote. Um, And the
reason why he thinks this is charming is very much
rooted in his idolization of Dr Forceman, the guy you
did that hard surgery, and himself. So yeah, enforcement experimenting
on himself. He was exiled from mainstream medicine for his boldness,

(54:40):
but he was eventually recognized as a medical pioneer and
a genius. Um Reynolds wants so badly to identify himself
with Forceman that he includes this line in the who
is section of his website quote, I actually pulled up
Dr Forceman story on Wikipedia and read it for a
few minutes to get psyched out before I injected my
own penis with p RP, which I did twice before

(55:00):
I injected any other person's penis or clitterers slash vagina. Now,
some people might equipal with the fact that he's equating
himself and his orgasm medicine experiments with a doctor struggling
to cope with a way to save heart disease patients.
But I actually think that sexual health is incredibly important,
so I'm not going to like ding him on that.
What I will ding him for is the fact that
doctor Reynolds clearly never cared about anything but rushing to

(55:21):
patent his treatment so he could ring the most possible
money out of it. Dr Forceman, on the other hand,
spent decades as either a small town doctor or a
frontline military doctor. He turned down impressive jobs and titles
when they were offered to him because they he felt
they exceeded his depth of confidence. Um, he was a
pretty humble guy. Whatever else you want to say about him, Um,

(55:41):
and his innovations contributed to medical science. None of those
things can be said about Dr Ronalds, although I am
glad he moved from on from experimenting on homeless people
to experimenting on his own dick, I guess that's a
step forward. I mean, yeah, it's it's it's the step
I prefer. I would prefer injecting himself and injecting innocent people,
that is, homeless people. But his his claim that like,

(56:05):
first of all, two times, if you're only to like
be like I injected myself twice before anyone else, first
of all, if you want to be serious, twice is
not enough. And also, like this just brings me back
to my point of him being so consumed with the
story and versus the medicine, like he wants to be
a pioneer so desperately that that's all he that's all

(56:28):
it is, And he's clearly the way he describes the
story tells you that like he'd made his mind up
about what this was because like a real scientist doing
if they did this to themselves, might not like, Okay,
well it feels like my orgasms are better. But is
it possible that I'm just into medical kink, like like
maybe this is just what like and it's not a
groundbreaking medical treatment. Perhaps other research should be done. Um. Yeah,

(56:53):
but also you should never have That's a really good point.
You should never go into anything being like I'm going
to be a pioneer because of this, Like that's the
whole research and testing Like yeah, but obviously cites he read,
he read his Wikipedia pages, cite himself up, are you shipping? Like, yeah, yours?
All of this is horrible. Yeah, Now, Dr Charlie he
puts it out himself. Yeah he does because he doesn't.

(57:15):
He thinks this is fine and he's never really faced
consequences for it. So clearly it is sollusion because he's
attracted goddam so. Dr Charles Reynolds names another hero on
his website, Barry Marshall. Dr Barry Marshall and Marshall is
another doctor with a very cool story. In the early
nineteen eighties, Barry Marshall became convinced that peptic ulcers and

(57:35):
gastric cancer were both caused by a specific sort of bacterium.
Conventional medical wisdom at the time was that ulcers were
caused by stress or certain foods. Marshall was ridiculed ridiculed
at first for his hypothesis and has been quoted as
saying everyone was against me, but I knew I was right.
And Dr Marshall eventually proved his hypothesis by drinking a
culture filled with ulcer causing bacteria and giving himself an ulcer.

(57:59):
His work revolution suctionize the treatment of ulcers and the
prevention of gastric cancer. He was awarded a Nobel Prize
for his enormous achievement um and you can see why
Dr Reynolds likes this guy. Renald's writes about Dr Marshall quote,
he gave up gaining acceptance in Australia and then came
to the US, and only after the popular press started
talking about it the physicians start reading his research. He
gave himself an ulcer by drinking the bacteria. Dr Marshall

(58:21):
and his acceptance of the prize, quoted Daniel Borstein, the
greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the
illusion of knowledge. Now, some of what ronalds says here
is true. Doctor Marshall did in fact give himself an ulcer,
but there's actually a lot of debate about whether or
not the medical community was wrong to be as skeptical
about his ideas as they were. Doctor Reynolds claims that

(58:42):
the skepticism was only because cutting out ulcers was big
business and other doctors had no financial interest in alternative treatments,
and this claim is undercut by the fact that Barry
Marshall received funding from a major medical institution to spend
a whole year conducting his research. He did test it
on himself eventually, but he was given funding to do
the studies that he was doing. So the idea that like,

(59:03):
he did face resistance people who didn't think that what
he was suggesting was reasonable. But also there was an
institution willing to let him conduct these studies in a
controlled and and scientific way. Um, So it's not like
he was completely alone, like an institution was like, yeah,
there's enough merit to your case that, like, here's some funding,
figure it out. Um. You can argue that doctors were

(59:27):
more skeptical than they should have been. But Dr Marshall
didn't just give himself an ulcer and say, see, I've
solved the problem. He had a research partner, he had
lab assistance, He worked at an institution. When he proved
his hypothesis, more test tests were conducted, and more research
was done until an effective treatment was devised. This is
how medical science is supposed to work. By contrast, Dr

(59:48):
Reynolds did not do go from shooting his own dick
or his girlfriend's labia full of blood to conducting double
blind clinical trials. Um this would be difficult because he's
been banned from doing that sort of work due due
to his shame a criminal conduct, borderline criminal conduct. Instead,
he left right to not just he left right to
selling the O shot. So like the they didn't do,

(01:00:09):
he didn't do what Marshall did. He just starts marketing
this thing. After he decides it's effective. That should be
a fucking crime. That should be a fucking crime. Seems
like it ought to, but it's not. And he started
selling and conducting training sessions so other doctors could could
sell the O shot too. As of this moment, he's
trained at least five hundred medical practitioners and more than

(01:00:29):
twenty women have had the UH the O shot UH
done on them. Runnalds estimates that it has an eighty
five percent success rate, based mainly off of how he feels,
because again, no conclusive clinical trials have been done on
this treatment. He does have like one or two small
batch studies about its efficacy at treating other things that

(01:00:49):
he cites as evidence that the O shot works. However,
as Dr jin Gunter notes about one of the studies,
the only study of vaginal injections listed on Dr Reynolds's
website is in is the Journal of Women's Health Care
and open access journal from o Mix Publishing Group, which
has been listed as a potentially predatory journal. Now there's
no universally agreed upon definition of a predatory journal, but

(01:01:10):
most of them are basically self publishing platforms for scientists.
They allow you to publish a study for a fee,
and they provide no editing or peer review process because
a lot of them don't actually care about putting out
good information. Some of these just like ship posting yourself yourself.
It's like medium for scientists. Yeah, exactly, I was just
thinking about uh. Gunter continues quote regardless of the journal.

(01:01:31):
It is a stretch to call this paper a study.
It's a case series of eleven women with a variety
of sexual complaints raging from disperunia UH to orgasmic disorder
the sexual dysfunction experienced by a woman with disperunia. Never
mind that there are a multitude of very different conditions
that can cause disperunia, so it really shouldn't be a
single diagnosis in the study cannot be compared with the
sexual dysfunction of a woman with an arousal disorder. The

(01:01:52):
results of the eleven women six reported some kind of improvement,
but honestly the statistics are of no value given the
small samples eyes and the fact that there are four
very different diagnoses lumped together. I also can't tell if
it was retrospective or perspective. The two women who had
minimal procedure pro procedure dysfunction reported extreme arousal for one
to two weeks afterwards. This is the only bad effect

(01:02:14):
noted in the twelve to sixteen week follow up. The
paper is a very short follow up, but Dr Reynolds's
website claims the oh shot last at least eighteen months,
but up to three years for some women. So there's
just nothing really to back him up. Um, he has
paid to have enough of something that looks enough like
a study performed that he can claim that he's gotten
medical backing and no more because a real study might

(01:02:37):
reveal But this doesn't work very well, so that's good.
That just makes me so mad. And I'm realizing now,
I'm realizing now that I didn't really have to divulge
or like or like a broadcast that I'm like struggled
with this thing because I don't know why. I just
felt the needs just like be so candid. I just
have no absolutely no filter. But I will say, think

(01:03:00):
about this stuff is so important because if someone had
talked about it the way I'm talking about it when
I was younger, I wouldn't have felt like such a
fucking freak and I wouldn't have felt like such a
like a just like like I wouldn't have not felt
human in my inability to feel this very human thing.
And so I like was thinking that maybe like I

(01:03:22):
shouldn't have said it, but now I'm like doubling down
and I'm just the the reality that I'm even having
that thought, Like if women are continually afraid to even
breach the subject or or or broach the subject, rather
encourages people like this fucking just disgusting human being taking

(01:03:43):
advantage of women that are so desperate to feel something
and just like understand what receiving pleasure is like. And
like I can do all my homework, I can like
like like practice all these things, I can buy toys
or whatever, but I am going to be I'm going
to know my body better than any fucking hack ever will,

(01:04:05):
And like women should be encouraged to really do that
more so than I don't know, I'm just I'm just
getting heated. I'm getting this is a frustrating story. Yeah,
it's a very frustrating story. Um because like yeah, like
all grifters, he's praying on a real vulnerability, Like this
is a thing that like like like like women who

(01:04:26):
you know are are struggling with the thing that you've
been very open about struggling with. That's a painful vulnerability.
And he knows that it means he can fleece them
for a shipload of money. Um yeah, and it's that's
obviously has and he's meant He's become a very wealthy
from it. Yeah, Yeah, exactly, like that's that's that's that's
just infuriating. Yeah, it gets infuriating her. Dr Gunter has

(01:04:52):
done a lot of like looking into this guy's like
like digital presence. She notes that in the paper that
he had published that's purporting to be a real study
about this stuff, he listed his address as medical school,
Comma Birmingham, Comma Alabama, Comma USA. This is not a
medical school. Yeah, he just stuck medical school on his
address because he knows that no one looking to get

(01:05:14):
this treatment will check any further. Um, yeah, it's awesome,
now do yeah. Yeah. And in Dr Gunter's opinion, the
most unsettling thing about kind of the lack of information
about the efficacy of the O shot is that there
are no animal studies to show how the vaginal epithelium
might respond to p RP. Quote. The bulk of the

(01:05:37):
published studies involved wounds and tendons muscles, not healthy vaginal tissue.
This is a very important point because it is possible
that PRP could increase the growth of blood vessels into
vaginal tissues, and we don't know if that is good
or bad. If a woman has human pamplona virus in
her vagina and gets a p RP injection that could
cause the HPV to spread or make it more likely
to develop into cancer. Could it cause scarring? Could it

(01:05:59):
lead to unregular lated growth of nerve endings and cause pain?
Could it trigger trigger autoimmune conditions of the vagina revolva?
She's pointing out, we just don't know, and this is
why you don't start injecting performing a treatment in tens
of thousands of women when we don't know any of
this stuff, like you research it for you, Like there's
a case you never jump to human trial. You never
do that. There there is a case for hastening human

(01:06:21):
trials in the event of, say a horrific plague spreading
over the land, and you really need to get a
vaccine out fastest. There's a cost benefit analysis that can
be done, and things can be accelerated. But this is
not an immediate life or death issue, like orgasms are important,
but we can take the time to make sure this
isn't going to cause horrible damage to the people getting

(01:06:42):
the shot, Like right, this isn't like a vaccine for
a death plague. You know, we have the time and
energy being given to it to make it so we
can do it right, Like, this is a serious issue,
but it's not. It's just for a for a medical standpoint,
you never like it's it's just it's very frustrating. It's

(01:07:06):
very frustrating. So after all this, we've established, you know
how reckless this guy is and how unproven his treatment is.
And the question that follows, naturally is why do you
keep people keep buying it? And the answer for that
is is really fucking sad. And it ties into the
stuff we're talking about at the top of this episode.
A lot of women are a lot of people with
vaginas can't organize or orgasm reliably, and the best treatment

(01:07:28):
for this seems to be a combination of therapy and
having a committed partner who cares about your understanding or
cares about understanding your body. Um, you can't prescribe that right,
like to a certain extent, you can't. You can't like
no doctor can like write that on a sheet and
hand it out to you. Um. Falling in love, or
at least falling in like enough to have regular sex
is not easy. Um. And so Dr Runnelds offers an

(01:07:52):
easy answer, an injectable answer to what is really a
very complicated question. And this helps explain the demand for
dr orgasms services, but it doesn't explain why so many
women do swear by his work. And for that explanation,
we're going to have to turn back to that article
in The Guardian by Kathleen Hale. The opening paragraphs of
this article about Runnals are filled with more red flags
than a Communist Party rally. And I'm gonna quote here Runnalds.

(01:08:15):
His office isn't like anything. Isn't anything like the sterile
exam rooms most women associate with gynecological exams. It's intimate,
personal and cozy because in addition to treating thousands of
patients there over the years, he also lives there. There's
a small entry way. The small entry way opens up
to a living room dominated by jim equipment. In the bathroom,
I found a functioning shower and shelves filled with employees toiletries.
The only examination table was separated from the kitchen by

(01:08:37):
a curtain. Pamela, Julian Vivianne. The three women on Renalds
is four person staff greeted me with open arms in
order to better understand what they promoted. Pamela and Vivian
told me they both had O shots administered by Runnels. Mark,
the sole male employee, opted for the male version a
P shot. If you're like me, that stuff gives you
some flashbacks to to Dr John Brown, like you know,

(01:08:58):
the guy we talked about who did horrific surgeries from
his own home on on trans people. UM. It's generally
not considered ideal for a doctor to perform operations in
his own home, but it's also not impossible for such
a situation to be sterile, and I have not heard
any allegations that Dr Reynolds is set up violates any
health codes. UM. The part where all of his employees
used the medicine that he makes is real culty in

(01:09:20):
a bit of a flag though UM and the cult
vibes don't decline. As the article goes on, quote, as
we awaited for the arrival of my first interview subject,
Lacy Reynolds suggested that I might want to try the
O shot for myself. You'll love it, Vivian said. She
told me that doctors regularly flew in from all over
the world to be trained in the procedure, and that
initially they reacted to offers of free O shots, just

(01:09:42):
as I had, with a mix of embarrassment and surprise,
but by the end she said everyone wanted one. I mean,
it's kind of I can kind of understand, like if
you go to a dentist or orthodontist, you want everyone
there to have straight teeth, right, like you want everyone
there to have had braces or whatever. But this is
completely be different, Like it's not the same thing. And

(01:10:03):
I do think I think the fact that it's in
a house and not in a more sterile place, I
think that lends to getting these women to trust him,
like it's more intimate, and it's more it is you're, you're, you're,
you're praying on them in very emotional mental ways that
they don't even realize it's you're you're making them feel

(01:10:25):
like they're yeah, that that that they're safe, but they're not.
And it feels like the kind of classes he does
with the doctors, the in person ones at least, are
kind of like that too. Um. There's a line in
here where Reynolds laughs quote recalling how the last class
had run until three in the morning just to accommodate demand,
and he says it's like a Baptist revival. Except you're

(01:10:46):
injecting each other's genitals. I know that's sucking wild Yeah now, hay.
This Guardian All article by Kathleen Hale also notes that
the location for Renalds is off this, which is fair Hope.
Alabama is in the middle of the Bible Belt, and
it's a place where vibrators are illegal due to the
state's anti obscenity laws. Um. Where I grew up in

(01:11:08):
Texas was like that too. They had to market them
as cake toppers, like as like decorations for like cakes
for bachelorette parties and stuff, even though yeah, yeah, because
it's illegal to sell a vibrator because Texas hates hates women. Um, yeah,
that's crazy. I had no idea. Yeah. And and the
data here is imperfect. Um, but there is a decent

(01:11:31):
amount of data that suggests that highly religious women, and
particularly like religiously orthodox type women, are more likely to
suffer from orgasmic disorders than secular women. Um. And the
women hail in views, I can. I can tell you why.
I can. Obviously, Like you're grown your you grow up
with shame around your body, and that shame has this you.

(01:11:52):
You have this inability to really let go and experience pleasure.
Like obviously that makes sense, but he's like pretty much
taking advantage of that, Like he's capitalizing on this group
of women having the issue that he is pretending to
know how to solve. Yes, And it makes sense that
this guy who otherwise you would expect a doctor like

(01:12:13):
this to be like in Los Angeles. I think he
picked his location. I think he decided to stay in
Alabama for a reason, and it's that he's very good
at manipulating this particular kind of of person, very like
religious conservative ladies who have orgasmic disorders, and he's good
at making them trust him. Um. Yeah, yeah Hale's article. Yeah,

(01:12:34):
so it's um. The women that Hale interviews for that
article described themselves overwhelmingly as um very empathetic, Bible believing
Christians like the women who have gotten this shot, and
an outsized number of them are unfortunately victims of raper
sexual assault. UM quote. Lacy and athletic, forty year old
businesswoman told no one when she was raped for the

(01:12:54):
first time at age thirteen, but soon her father noticed
something different about her and started calling her horror and
a lesbian. Physical abuse followed when Lacey's next rapist. Her
husband found himself unable to climax unless Lacey was in
excruciating pain. He raped her throughout their tenure relationship. UM.
So yeah, and the damage from this left her, at

(01:13:15):
twenty nine years old with um incontinence uh and scarring UM.
She went the bed uh and she was just kind
of unable to orgasm. UM. Doctors responded to her condition
concerns by suggesting she used lube with her partners and
undergo psychotherapy. UM. And by age thirty, Lacey never expected
to experience sexual pleasure again. UM. She tried using a

(01:13:36):
back massager to stimulate herself, but it left a callous
on her clitteress. UM. So she just didn't know how to. Yeah,
she's just a victim of of of unbelievable abuse, UM
who did not know how to like like like like
who was maybe getting some psych psychological counseling, but because
of where she lived and sort of like the the
culture she was in, was not able to really talk

(01:13:57):
about sex with anyone and never had that conversation, never
had a conversation about how to masturbate. And then she
meets Dr Reynolds UM and they meet at a bank
and she learns what he does, and she confides in
him that she can't orgasm, and he tells her that
he knows something that might help, and I get the feeling.
She says that he gave her the O shot and
she immediately felt alive down there. You get the feeling though,

(01:14:19):
that also they're having just conversations about sex and maybe
she's never gotten to have that. He's giving her an
intimacy she's never known. And I don't want to I
don't want to discredit any of what these women have
felt or no, no, no, but there is a level
of placebo that goes into this, like you, it's leading
up to it, just like the connection with with the

(01:14:40):
with the women, the this promise of of like just
like everyone telling them it's going to work, the staff
and everything like, there's going to be a certain amount
of placebo that just by default is there because it's
so high and and the data we have makes it
very clear that having healthy conversations about your your genitalia

(01:15:01):
and about sex with people who care about you, or
at least seem to care about you really helps with
an orgasmic disorder. That's a super important part of treating
it and there's again this is part of why, like
why you need an actual study on something like this,
because there's no separation for like the conversations they're having
in like the intimacy of the encounter and the shot,

(01:15:21):
Like none of that's being separated. There's no way to
know what the shot is doing, if actually anything, because
a whole lot is wrapped up in all of these
women's stories with Dr Reynolds and that's but that just
helps in Yeah, it does help him it, but it
does not necessarily help these women. It doesn't help us
to know if this thing actually works. Um. Yeah, which
is why skeptics like Dr jin Gunter will point out

(01:15:44):
that anecdotal data is not the same as scientific data.
And she points that out, pointed that out to Kathleen
Hale and the Guardian article because Hale talked to Dr
Gunter um and Hale understood that, but also had a
lot of trouble writing off these women's experiences. Um. She
was clearly convinced to it a read by their embrace
of the O shot. And it's very convincing when you
have a lot of people say this thing helped me. Um.

(01:16:06):
She did ask Renalds, though, why he tended to gravitate
towards trauma victims, and his answer was interesting. He responded, quote,
I don't really know why I'm surrounded by people who
have pain. I do absolutely make a conscious effort to
find them. I think my real usefulness evolves out of
It's not even compassion, it's more like obsession, which is yeah,

(01:16:26):
more of an honest answer, Yeah, it should be right,
what the yeah? And that is that's there is a
reason why cult leaders gravitate towards abuse victims, as do grifters.
Um Because in general, our society doesn't a ship job
of taking care of these people. Um. And it's a
natural human need to respond to people who reach out

(01:16:48):
and show compassion for you in times of lonely darkness.
And I think this explains part of Dr Reynolds's success UM.
And another part of it is explained by what's called
placebo theater, which is very well documented fact that receiving
any kind of treatment in a clinical medical setting, especially
if it's expensive, will increase a patient's belief that the
treatment will work and actually increase the efficacy of the treatment.

(01:17:11):
This is a placebo effect thing, and it doesn't help
a lot when you're treating metastatic cancer. But a lot
of orgasm. Orgasm is mental, right, Like, that's where the
block comes up for a lot of people. And it's
not unheard of four placebos to be effective enough to
sixty percent of cases for these sorts of situations, because again,
you don't actually have to physically affect, you just have

(01:17:31):
to make them believe, like, and if they believe it
will work. This is primarily a mental block. That's all
it is. I mean not all it is. There's more.
That's a lot of it. Yeah, a big part of
the research that I've been doing personally, like it's it's
a they talk a lot about letting go and ways
to make your mind, Yeah, like let go essentially of everything.

(01:17:54):
That's like, because there's this pressure around even achieving the
word achieving an orgasm is like so I think counterintuitive
because it makes it seem like you're reaching for something constantly,
and if you're having sex with a partner, at least
in my experience, I always felt like I'm never going
to give them what they want because I can't do
this thing that I'm supposed to be doing. And so

(01:18:16):
then I then I get really into like giving rather
than receiving. And I get a lot of pleasure out
of that. But then it kind of like when you're
really grappling with this idea of um, yeah, the fact
that it's all mental. It's all mental, because if you're
too consumed with I'm I can't do this thing, or
or if you're even thinking like I have to let go,

(01:18:37):
I have to like go, that's not letting go. And
so I can only imagine like all these elements that
allow women too for their minds, Like he's making them
comfortable enough to believe that this is going to help
them and that in and of itself makes them feel better.
And and if that's all he was doing, I wouldn't
have any problem with this guy. I mean I would
because of the homeless people study, but like I would

(01:18:57):
have a problem with this current business. Like if this
guy would just like, hey, I'm a doctor in the
Bible Belt and I help women who have problems orgasm,
ng um, and a lot of women said he helped them,
I'd be like, yeah, fine, great, but he's also injecting
them with He's also performing a medical operation that we
have no data on what kind of long term harm
it might do. To them like, that's that's where the
issue is, right, Um, that's yeah, And it's not just therapy,

(01:19:22):
it's not talking, and you're physically doing something to a
body he is not medically sound. And another impact comes
from the fact that the O shot costs about hundred dollars,
and controlled studies have shown that spending more money on
a medical treatment can increase the placebo effect as well,
and even Parkinson's patients have shown physical improvement in situations

(01:19:42):
like this. So again, like a lot of this has
nothing to fucking do with whatever he's injecting them with,
and everything to do with the psychological atmosphere that this
person sets up and his his his his operation. Now,
the experts Kathleen Hale talked to mentioned all of this
but quote as she but as she writes, quote as
a layperson, I couldn't help but respect their authority, but
as a human being was hard for me to discredit

(01:20:03):
so many women's stories when they said the O shot worked,
I believe them. So she got the shot herself and
it didn't. It didn't do anything. And I think it's
just because she didn't. She's never had she didn't have
an issue, right, Like she had no problem having orgasms.
She had the shot and she didn't notice anything, and
that is what you would She didn't go into it
with the trauma. She didn't go into it with a like,

(01:20:25):
uh something to be fixed. Yeah, you know, like she
wasn't searching for a like you know, I don't know
that makes sense, and it's it's one of those things
where like, at the end of the day, I have
to admit that compared to our usual bastards, the harm
this guy is currently perpetrating is minimal. Like, these women
are out money, but there's not well, there's not evidency's

(01:20:47):
helping them. There isn't evidence he's hurting them. Although it
is possible that he's doing a lot of damage to them,
we just don't know for a while because again, nobody's
fucking looked into this. Um it's uh, I don't know.
Like I hate this I because I think he's a
bad person and he's taking advantage of people. Um. But
I also I think the thing that I hate more
than this guy is the fact that we have such

(01:21:08):
a shitty system set up in our country for any
kind of sexual health care, for informing people about their bodies,
for giving women who are having this problem a place
where they even know they can go to for help. Um,
Like that's that system leads him for his success, Like
that system made him successful. And I agree with you that,
like in the grand scheme of things, he's not like

(01:21:29):
a murderer, Like he's not like you've talked about shittier
people on your show, for sure, But the institution at large,
you're right, is what is contributing to his success. And
that institution is so flawed and so broken, and it
makes women believe that there's they are there, they that
that they need to be fixed. And he's capitalizing on
that in a huge way. And he's getting away with it.

(01:21:51):
And he should have been banned from everything medical along
as time ago, but he's still operating on a level
that should be criminal up yep. And he's he's trying
to get into coronavirus grift. It's a pretty minor one.
He wants to like create a nationwide UH blood bank
basically to take plasma rich blood from people that have

(01:22:14):
had it, that might have antibodies and give it to
other people. And like folks who aren't grifters are already
doing basically this. He's just trying to create his own thing,
and it doesn't look like it's work. I haven't seen
it pick up a lot of steam because he's the
blood guy. Yeah, so I I don't know. I like,
as far as all of the grifters that I worry about,
he's not super high on my list. Keep an eye

(01:22:35):
on him because he might wind up with a grift
that actually does harm a whole lot of people, where
he might find out that his current grift is more
harmful than we know. I just am so frustrated by
the story. At the same time, like as with most
of the grifters who are currently eating the decent and
often kind of dumb people of this country alive. Um,

(01:22:56):
the reason why they're able to do what they do
is because are we don't take care of our people.
There's no systems that that provide people with any option
that they have a chance that they have that there
is actually a reasonable, non exploited of way to deal
with a problem like a sexual problem that they have.
And so the first handsome, well spoken person who has

(01:23:18):
what looked like convincing credentials and says he can cure you,
you'll you'll just trust him if he has if he
has a nice face. And there are so many ways
we should have set up our society to to reduce
the ability these people would have to um grift the vulnerable,
but we have done none of that. And I guess
that makes sense because this is America. Yeah, I I

(01:23:42):
agree with all of that, and it's really terrible because
it's so true. And I am I under I realized
that most of your listeners Actually, no, I don't realize.
I'm assuming that a lot of our listeners are men.
But for the women out there that are listening to this,
I if you, if you relate to anything I said,
You're not alone. And I know this is like not

(01:24:03):
supposed to be about my own ship, but I just
I'm so angry that someone like this is getting away
with something that I've struggled with, like my whole life,
and like I'm I'm a sexual person like I and
the fact that I have this one thing that's like
been bugging me my whole life that especially in like

(01:24:25):
today's world where everyone's really empowered and sexually uh just
outspoken and everything. As someone who's also progressive, it makes
me feel like I can't keep up, Like it makes
me feel like I'm not. I can't really understand where
everyone's coming from. And maybe it'll happen one day, maybe
it won't. But just accepting that where you are right
now is where you are is so much better than

(01:24:47):
being I don't know, berating yourself or something that is
not in your control, like you just I don't know.
I just wanted to end this in like a poetic way,
and it's not coming out the way I wanted to.
There's just people feel I just don't want people to
feel like this is a subject that we shouldn't talk
about because I had hesitation admitting that I've never like

(01:25:11):
that I have. I don't know this experience and I
like I have my my sexual history is like a
little bit confusing just because I don't know I am
the way I am. But um but I think the
fact that me even coming from someone who just shot
all over this guy and would never do this thing,

(01:25:33):
I can't deny that. There was a little, a little
voice in my head. I was like, what if it
does work? Like what if this is like like when
we first started talking about it, and I was like, well,
maybe this is the answer to all my problems and
this is coming from someone I think I'm not. I
think I'm like reasonably intelligent. So I don't know. I
just think the depth of shame and trauma that we

(01:25:54):
hold with ourselves is just not okay, and we just
have to come at this whole thing with like love.
And I haven't talked to human all day today, so
I forget how conversations work. So please come me off
at any time. You're great. I'm sweaty. I'm so sweaty
talking about so. I don't know. I just thank thank

(01:26:14):
you for having me on to talk about this. I
just thank you for talking. I was supposed to say no,
I mean, you're supposed to say, yeah, that's fine, Like
it's it's important to talk about this. I guarantee there
are people who will listen to this and have a
version of the same experience you're having, and it will
probably make them feel better to know that they're not

(01:26:34):
alone in that, and that's a good thing. And if
we're talking about things that reduce the ability of guys
like this to grift people, it is being able to
talk about this ship. So I'm glad that you felt
comfortable talking about it to an intimate audience of me
and Sophie and several hundred thousand strangers. Cool. Thanks, Robert.
I am going to I will say right now, if

(01:26:56):
any of the fucking dudes listening do creepy ship on Twitter?
Do you after is, I will fucking tear your as
a new one digit. Don't be a fucking gross about this. Okay,
don't nobody nobody? Yeah, thank you, Robert. I appreciate that.
I mean, like I just I go back to this
idea that if someone was as open, if someone if

(01:27:16):
if if it was the norm to be open about this,
I wouldn't feel so weird as a kid or as
a as a teen or whatever growing up kind of
feeling like there was something wrong with me. And so
I think we just have to keep encouraging these conversations.
And it's the same institution that put this guy to
be successful, that that same institution, the same societal fucking

(01:27:38):
game is the same one that makes women like me
feel like they need to be fixed. So um So yeah,
I mean, like I know, like putting myself out there
is like just like by default get like weird replies
to it or whatever, or just like it going to
be an interesting week on Twitter for you. Yeah, also

(01:27:58):
I'm like a little bit low key afrase. I'm like,
because I was, like I was raised Muslim, My entire
family's Muslim. We don't really talk about like you're not
really raised to like talk about sex or uh. There's
just a lot to unpack as far as like me
talking about this goes like it's not just me as

(01:28:18):
a woman in the society, it's also me and like
my culture and like my family in particular, Like I
just there's a lot to unpack for me here, and
it's this is not like I'm using this as therapy,
which I shouldn't do. Um, but I think even coming
from like as an Arab woman, as a Syrian woman,
that's even another group of people that I would like

(01:28:41):
to encourage this conversation with, like with it, you know,
because like if your children a child of immigrants, if
you're you're not taught about these things is when you're
growing up, it's just going to lead to more confusion
and to lead to more questions and not that's not
like a blanket statement, like there are plenty of people
who are fine and thriving the way they are, but

(01:29:01):
this is just from my own personal experience that um,
I think that's why I'm so unfiltered and so candid
is because I just needed someone to be this way
when I was a kid, and I needed to say
everything that was on their mind because that's that would
would that would have made me feel less like an
alien trying to study humanity watching porn, you know what

(01:29:22):
I mean? Like, Yeah, I don't know. I mean I
think the thing you're landing on is that when you
realize you are kind of done dirty by your society
and the adults around you when you were a kid
because of like a failure that they that they had,
you know, regardless of whether or not we consider them
good people, like there was a there was a shortcoming

(01:29:43):
in what we had available to us as a kid.
When you realize that the best thing you can do
is try to be that adult um maybe to someone else,
so that they don't wind up with the same hole
in their um, experience, their education, whatever, as as as
they grow up. And that starts with like talking about
the ship that you realize like, oh, I wish people

(01:30:04):
had talked about this when I was a kid. Yeah,
I'm constantly trying to be the person that I needed
when I was a child. And when you're growing up,
you don't see it as a societal failure. You see
it as your own failure. And I think that's what's dangerous,
especially when it comes to like woman's pleasure, is that
you don't see it as a system failing you. You
see as you failing yourself, and you fail like you're

(01:30:24):
failing your own body, and you start to resent your
body and like, why can't I do this? And then
hopefully as we get older and become more aware of
the society at large that makes us feel this way,
then we can like combat those things and just become
the people we were always meant to be, which is
just ourselves. And that's my spiel. Thank you for coming

(01:30:45):
to my ted talk. Uh. This is the only podcast
on earth. Thank you for thank you for having me
on the only podcast to make it in this pandemic.
What an honor. I know the white list is so long.
Yeah yeah, Just if you're looking for something to do
during this time, I might recommend a book of poetry

(01:31:05):
written by A. Sharne that is on Amazon called dime
Piece It. Wow. Thank you so much, Sophie. Thank you.
I'm currently working on my next one, so that is nice.
Thank you. Also, since we're just another thing to do
is just try masturbating. That's you know what. Now is

(01:31:27):
the time. Now is the time to really just like
try to figure it out when like you have so
many hours in the day. You actually you have exactly
twenty four that's that's that's a fact. But you have
time to explore yourself if that's what you want to do.
And I'm sure many of you already doing that. But
this has been quite the journey for me. And doing

(01:31:48):
your homework is it means a lot of things, you know,
So just do your homework on your body, on yourself,
on your mind, you know what. That's I've said my piece.
Cool alright, Um well, I don't really know how else
to in the episode other than um, think a lot

(01:32:09):
about all this and uh go unfunded the world. Yeah,
and masterbait funk yourself to unfunck the world. That's the
only message I have. I co host a podcast on
the Heart Media network Heart Radio Network. It's ethnically ambiguous.

(01:32:29):
We talk to people that are um uh marginalized about
their struggles in the world, and we also just talk
about ourselves being children of immigrants. I am Sharine You
can follow me at Shiro Hero s h e E
r O h E r O on Instagram and on Twitter.
It's Shiro Hero six six six. Thank you Sophie for
plugging my book. I'm a filmmaker. I have some short

(01:32:51):
films on my website. You can just my everything is
like in my Twitter bio or some ship I don't
know whatever, figure it out just google me. Um. But yeah,
that's about it. I have another podcast called The Women's War. Yes,
you check it out. It's upbeat. I also have nothing else.
That is My whole life is these two podcasts. And

(01:33:11):
I returned to avoid in between space and time when
you are not listening to me, So please listen again regularly.
And thanks for letting me ramble a little bit on this. Yeah, thanks,
thanks for letting me just ramble and go. I know
this is like a longer episode that I just I
thought I got worked up. I think it's good that
you did and that you said the things you said,

(01:33:32):
So thank you for coming on and speaking candidly. And
uh again, don't be weird about this. People, don't be
fucking creepy. Okay, well fucking handle find whatever. I'll just
meet you that is the episode Hi

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Robert Evans

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