The 'White Savior' Fake Doctor Who May Have Killed 100 Babies

In episode 66, Robert is joined by Sofiya Alexandra to discuss Renee Bach. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hmm, what abusing my Africa's I don't know how to
open this episode. Uh, oh boy, I'm Robert Evans. Uh.
This is a behind the Bastards podcast where we talk
about horrible people, and today we're talking about horrible people

(00:22):
who abused Africa. My guest today is Sofia. How are
you doing, Sofia? I'm doing great. Thank you so much
for having me, Thank you for being on the show.
Now we talked last for all that an episode about
a little lady named Georgia tan Um. Oh boy. Uh.
Some people might say the most sad and fucked up
episode of your podcast, or at least that's what a

(00:45):
lot of the tweets I got said. Yeah, I would
say that is the saddest and most fucked up episode
of my podcast. Um. It was fun when people were
tweeting and like being like, ha ha, that's a good
joke for some things. So sad. And then I got
really real when people were tweeting and being like I
think my family history involves this. Yeah. I was like,

(01:07):
I am not prepared to handle this. I am a
stand up comedian. And then we got people making fan
art about Ric Flair being stolen as a baby, which
I both appreciate and feel weird about because I'm sure
that's like the most traumatic chapter from Rick fair Flair's life,
and I don't know how to respectfully address what a

(01:29):
what a nightmare that is? Yes, and also I did
ask for the fan art, so it would be bad
of me to condemn the people who have then just
executed beautifully on the fucked up thing I came up with.
So I feel like, uh, let's keep that in the
gray area. No one was more wrong than Georgia Tan. Yeah,

(01:51):
no one was well except for maybe our subject for
today's episode. Because this this is might be a darker story.
It's not a darker story because the scale of Georgia
Tan is so awful. But this is, again a story
about an affluent young woman who injected herself into the
lives of poorer people, thinking she knew better than them

(02:12):
what they needed, and a whole lot of babies died. Um,
are you are you purposely only inviting me on episodes
that involve child murder right now? No? No, that's too long. Honestly,
that beat lets me know that the answer is yes.

(02:33):
I feel like you're trying to challenge me, challenge accepted Robert,
maybe Sophia. It's just that that I see something in
you that I I see in me, which is an
ability to to to stare into the darker aspects of
the human condition and look at that and analyze it
and say, I want a picture of Ric Flair acknowledging

(02:56):
that he was stolen as a baby. Uh. Um, thank you.
That is the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. So,
you know, just being Russian, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that I was. I didn't want to say it's because

(03:16):
you're Russian and can handle it, but essentially that's what
we're saying. Yes, yes, every episode you're on is like
the a Serbian film of Behind the Bastards. He just
likes drill into, uh the darkness of reality. Uh I
love that about us. Yeah. Well I opened this episode

(03:39):
by saying, what's abusing my Africa's which was a terrible introduction,
maybe my worst. Um, but we are talking about someone
who abused a whole lot of Africans today. Uh, we're
talking about Renee Bach. Have you ever heard of Renee Back? No,
nobody has. She is not yet, miss I have a

(04:00):
feeling she's going to be soon, but we're kind of
on the cutting edge of this one. Um. I love
being avant garde about murder. She hasn't really gone viral yet,
So we're gonna we're gonna talk about that. But first
I want to talk about Cony. Do you remember that
pr campaign whatever you want to call it, that awareness campaign?

(04:21):
I guess of course. Yeah, that was like the one
week or so when everyone in America cared about Uganda
because of a poorly fact check documentary. People donated a
bunch of money and they pasted stickers that said Cony
twelve that you can still find on Toyota Corollas to
this day. It was it was, it was a whole thing. Uh.
And then the creator of the documentary was caught masturbating

(04:41):
in public and there was a South Park episode making
fun of that, and then we all kind of moved
on from con Um. But it was like in the
middle of San Diego, wasn't it. He had like a
psychotic break. Oh I do remember remember the story? Okay?
Was that was a whole thing. Um, so many things

(05:03):
have happened since then. Yeah, that was literally like eighty
thousand atrocities ago. Yeah, yeah, it feels like it was
three years ago. It feels older than World War One.
It was really just like seven years back. Yeah, yeah. Now,
there was a brief period of time where the documentary's creator, uh,

(05:26):
the Invisible Children like company behind it were lauded as
like the shiny future of activism and like this is
how we were going to change the world in the future.
And um it was a heady time when con was
was still going viral. And during the heart of this
fevered period, African writer Teju Cole posted this in a
series of tweets from sex to christoph to Invisible Children

(05:50):
to ted. The fastest growth industry in the US is
the white savior industrial complex. The white savior supports brutal
policies in the morning, found charities in the afternoon, and
receives awards in the evening. This world exists simply to
satisfy the needs, including importantly, the sentimental needs of white
people in OPRAH. The white savior industrial complex is not
about justice. It is about having a big emotional experience

(06:10):
that validates privilege. Feverish worry over that awful African warlord,
but close to the one point five million Iraqis died
from an American war of choice. Worry about that. I
deeply respect American sentimentality the way one respects a wounded hippo.
You must keep an eye on it for you know,
it is deadly damn. Yeah, that's quite a line. I

(06:31):
really yeah, that's a real good line. I mean I
feel called out, you know. Yeah, yeah, I think we're
all supposed to. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Now, as
you might expect, Teju Cole took some ship for writing that. Um.
There are a couple of think pieces that went after
him for it, and and I'm not going to quote any
of those here, but he was basically attacked for being

(06:52):
a spoil sport and for the eternal crime of, you know,
bringing race into it. Um. People wondered, like, why should
it matter that the people who made this document entery
we're white. Joseph Coney is an objectively bad dude, and
the truth needed to get out, so like, what's the harm?
And of course the harm was that conwelve was was
hot garbage. Joseph Coney's Lord's Resistance Army was not active

(07:12):
in Uganda when the documentary went viral. It had no
positive impact on the ground, and it had several negative
impacts as best elucidated by Uganda human rights lawyer with
Segue boa Um with se Gear in a two thousand
fifteen interview, he said, to be honest, it seems what
skeptics predicted has come true that there would indeed be
more of a lasting impact on how people, especially in
the West, perceived Uganda than on the attainment of justice

(07:35):
for victims of the l r A conflict. For the
first time in a long time, some other monster was
connected to the country than a d I mean, and
the questions about a Coney experience pop up in spaces
where they at least expected. Imagine you are Uganda at
a youth conference somewhere in the West, and the conversation
icebreaker is whether you are a former child soldier. Invisible
Children may be closing, but I think many of Ugandans
will continue to be asked about Coney and whether they

(07:56):
are one of his victims. The simplifying of the narrative
has just added a new layer of areeo types for
Uganda's This will take a while to wear off. You
may have seen a campaign on the Guardian website led
by the Ugandan government comparing Uganda and Spain as tourist
destinations such are necessary because no one wants to visit
a place where they may be entangled in a war.
They are not interested in. The image of Uganda and
Africa as a permanent war zone was no doubt strengthened

(08:17):
by the Cony twenty twelve campaign. So Tejukole was was right.
Con hurt people living in Uganda by making the country
look like a war ravaged heellhole, hurting tourism, the damaging
their economy and the livelihood of many. But as far
as consequences of white saviorism go, Tonyve is actually kind
of the best case scenario, and today we're going to

(08:37):
talk about one of the worst case scenarios. And this
brings us back to renee Bach. It was a long intro.
I mean, all I wanted to add to that is
the question of, like, well, why is it bad if
a white person tells a story about non white people
as long as the story is told. I mean, inherently

(08:57):
that question doesn't recognize that there is a bias in
being white person telling the story of someone who's not white.
I think it just denies the idea that people should
tell their own story and not have it be co
opted by someone who comes in and pretends or thinks
they know what's best. But I think people don't often

(09:22):
make that jump. They're just like, well, if you're helping
and the intention is good, then yeah, the outcome is good,
automatically good, and I think you you hit the nail
on the head. That's sort of the whole story we're
gonna be talking about today, this idea that if the
intention is good, then that's mostly what matters when it
comes to activism, because this is a story about someone

(09:44):
whose intentions I really do think have been good this
entire time, and it doesn't matter because spoilers. She she
kills like a hundred babies. Um, like a Georgia Tan Junior,
like a Georgia Tan Jr. I mean, Georgia Tan. Nobody
came close to to GT when it came to racking
up that baby count. But this is pretty bad. I mean,

(10:07):
she's not putting up the same numbers. But not putting
up the same numbers, she's the I wish I knew
enough about basketball to make a basketball joke about this,
but I just don't could make a joke about this. Alright, alright, alright,
let's do it. I mean if she you would say
that Georgia Tan's whole life is like a triple double game,
you know, where she's putting up numbers in every category

(10:28):
like molestation, yes, mass murder. Yes, my dad is a
judge that forgave all of my stuff. Yes, you know
that's what I think. And then you get it. Yeah, yeah,
I think I get it. Um. I mean, I'm just
saying and just putting up one stat is not as
impressive as putting up stats in all three like rebounds, shots, assist. Yeah, yeah,

(10:52):
this is just Renee Bach is just putting up three pointers.
Side not great at basketball here, your partners are really hard,
yeah so maybe not maybe not all right, well yeah
yeah yeah, yeah so Renee Bach is not a well

(11:13):
known person at this point. No major Western news source
has covered her alleged crimes. I found out about this
in the first place from just a series of tweets
about Renee Bach from like some local African activists, people
who were with a group called No White Saviors. Um.
They published an article in September two eighteen about Renee
and then I I did a little bit more looking

(11:35):
and I found an article by a woman, young woman
named Nikki Gagnon uh, and she provided a lot of evidence,
and then I found even more evidence, including articles from
local Ugandan news sources. So this is a story that's
much better known in Uganda than the United States. I
have a feeling, based on the nature of the case
that it will eventually become big news in the West.

(11:55):
But you know, nobody liked The Guardian or wherever has
covered it yet. So again we're on the ground floor. Spoiler.
I did a little bit of original reporting for this,
which is exciting for me. Normally I'm just reading. Normally
I just get to read other people's reporting. Um, so
zero reporting for this. Well, what you're doing right now

(12:15):
is on the on the ground journalism. Uh, sort of
thank you for trying to make me feel important. You
can you can put on, you can wear get one
of those Fedora's that they stick a piece of paper
into that says press like in the old days. Yes,
get me an old timey. Yeah, please go on. No, no,

(12:40):
you're not interrupting. You're doing your job and it's time
for me to do mine. So there has been some
Western coverage of renee Bach the news in advance. A
local Virginia paper wrote an article about her in title
was an extraordinary girl who said yes to an extraordinary God.
Bedford native finds home in Uganda. Now that article, as

(13:01):
you might have guessed from the fawning title, presents Renee's
story as she wants it to be told and as
most of her friends back home believe it to be quote.
When Bedford native Renee Bach arrived in Uganda in September
two seven, she was alone. The eighteen year old had
landed in Uganda very late at night, only to find
her organized ride from the airport was nowhere to be found.
Construction had forced the plane to land on an airstrip,

(13:21):
where she went through immigration at a nearby tent. That experienced,
coupled with the increase in guns and rustic atmosphere, made
bak Bigin to question her choice to volunteer at a
local children's organization. I'm like, I'm from little Bedford and
I don't know anything about life here, and I got
left really late at night at the airport, she said,
I'm just sitting in the parking lot and then got
taken to a bunch of different places with random people
before I made it to the town I was going to.

(13:43):
But really quickly after I learned to super love it,
super love it. Oh boy. Yeah, see, you get a
little bit of a feeling for Renee and kind of
her attitude here. Uh, definitely going into it with good intentions.
She's a very motivated by her faith, motivated to go
and do volunteer work in this country. Uh, and obviously

(14:06):
going to Uganda is her first time in a UM.
I don't like the term third world nation developing nation.
I don't like that either, because like there's a there's
no term for countries where your security is not as
guaranteed and the infrastructure is not as built up. That
isn't in some way offensive, yeah, condescending, but it's it's

(14:30):
she's this is her first experience going from fucking suburban
Virginia to a place where the roads aren't reliable and
uh sometimes ship happens in a tent as opposed to
a well lit building, and like like that. This is
that experience for her. If you've ever traveled um through
parts of the world like that, you know how the
first time can be both like really scary and also

(14:54):
uh like a really exciting and electrifying experience. So she
has that sort of experience with Uganda and she falls
in love with it, which is not an uncommon thing
to do. So Renee's story is that she realizes how
many little kids in Uganda we're sick and malnourished, so
she decided to start her own five oh one C
three nonprofit. She called it Serving His Children or s HC.

(15:16):
She says. The organization initially started as a feeding program
that provided food to children, but soon children suffering from
malnutrition begin to show up at the center's gate and
MASSISI a slum in Ginja box set and so I
thought it was so odd because I had never seen
malnutrition before. And I was like, what is happening? This
is so weird. Quotes are perfect, Yeah, and then I

(15:37):
was like, w e t F. And I turned to
my friends and I was like, oh mg, yeah, that's
exactly what I've said every time I've seen malnourished children
somewhere in the world. W t F. What's going on?
And also what is that is a really weird question
to ask? Yeah, she's again sheltered, sheltered baby, very sheltered um.

(16:01):
And she goes to a part of the world where
you know, we have no fewer problems in our society,
but we're very good at hiding them, especially from upper
middle class kids who grow up in a place like Bedford, Virginia. Uh.
And this is a place where the problems aren't hidden.
And so she sees all of these issues and it's like,
I can do something to help um, and that's what

(16:22):
she starts doing. So very quickly, it becomes clear to
her that just getting people food is not enough for
her to do. Uh. And after seeing a bunch of
malnourished kids come through, she decides that the Lord is
showing her that there is a need for her to
provide more medical care for children. In the question, how
did she get the money for her to feed the children? Well, uh,

(16:46):
mostly donations, Like she starts a charity and then it's
like her family back home is connected to a large
church and so they solicit donations. Okay, so she's running basically,
she's running it on the money of the people back home.
Yeah yeah, yeah, And she's her family runs ran at
this point. I don't think they do anymore, but they
ran a like one of the family businesses was like

(17:08):
a horse therapy center, like therapy like or she's a
horse girl girl, and she comes from horse money, like
that's that's that's some serious money. So I'm guessing her
church is similarly affluent. So she started mostly horses, mostly horses. Yeah,
a lot of Clydesdale's dropping h what's horse money? Probably

(17:31):
horse Arabians, Arabians. I feel like, fancy horse. Isn't that
a fancy horse? Probably the horses are best in Arabia, Right,
That's what I've heard. That's what Lawrence of Arabia taught me.
And I've never been steered wrong by that movie before,
speaking of colonialism and such. It taught me how to

(17:53):
blow up train tracks, which, let me tell you, has
come in handy a few times now. Um Renee registers
as a rehabilitation center with the Uganda government, and her
charity takes off. Within five years, it had an operating
budget of seventeen thousand dollars a month and was helping
hundreds and hundreds of little kids every year, which sounds great. Uh,

(18:13):
you can see why her local Virginia paper wrote a
really fawning story about like what she was doing out there,
like it sounds like, um like exactly the kind of
story if you're one of these missionaries who believes that,
like missionary work is crucial for the good of the world.
You can see why you'd want to publicize this as
much as possible because it sounds like like the success story.

(18:34):
So that's the that was four years and years and years,
from like two thousand eight up until two thousand eighteen,
that was the story. Anyone outside of Uganda would have
heard about Rene's charity saving his children. But that version
of the story leaves a couple of things out. There
was a couple of things out. So I'm going to

(18:54):
read about those couple of things for another nine pages
or so. I can't wait. Are you really sided? Yeah?
I think you should rename this podcast white man Reading
to Me because I think I think that's pretty accurate.
But the podcast, yeah, yeah, I didn't want to really.
I mean yeah, but I love You're lucky because I

(19:17):
love being man's plained too. I know it's we're all
secretly programmed to love it, which is why what I've
based my career upon is is our internal uh is
the is the authority that my voice conveys despite it
being completely unearned by my actual lived experiences. I mean, look,

(19:40):
we all know a white man's voice is worth more. Yeah,
well it's it's it's fucking I don't know. This is
a little bit off topic, but not entirely. Um. I
have talked a number of times about the magical power
of being a tall white man with a stereotypically kind
of authoritative voice, because it's great for like walk going
into situations where there's like police officers and stuff and

(20:03):
just like taking control of the situation if you just
talk really authoritatively. Like that's how so many scammers get by,
is if you are like, if you look a certain
way and sound a certain way in our society, you
can just take control of situations, which is why a
guy like Beto O'Rourke can decide I'm born to be
president totally and people are like, oh my god, he's

(20:23):
so charming mm hmm, and it's uh yeah you um. Anyway,
it's freezing your white man powers for good. We appreciate it.
At least neutrality, I mean, I guess that's the best
you can really hope for it. That's that's what I
shoot for on this show, to leave a neutral impact

(20:44):
on the world. Yeah, I would like to leave no print,
just one of those washed away by the sea. Kind
of prints. Yeah, I would like my life to be
like a boy Scout campfire, um, where very carefully hide
all of it races of you having ever been there. Yeah,
that's that's really should be everybody's goal. But it was

(21:06):
not renee Box goal. And see we tied it back around.
It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Now, after we come back from
this ad break, because it's time for an ad break,
we're going to talk about why exactly it's bad that
Renee Bach didn't decide to lead the boy Scout campfire
sort of life. Um. But first, you know what won't

(21:27):
leave a horrible mark on the world, Sophia. Know what?
The products and services that support this podcast. I love
products and services unless we get another coke industry sad,
and then I will say that I never said that
I love the products. So please buy these products and

(21:48):
services unless it's an ad for coke industries, which why
do they even advertise on podcasts? Who? Who? Who listens
to podcasts and needs an oil refinery like my dad?
The monopoly Man products. We're back, Okay, So now I

(22:15):
just read to you sort of Renee's story the way
she presented it, that it was presented in her local papers. Um.
But uh, there's another version of the story, and it
came out in I believe October of two eighteen. It
was a medium post and it was published under the
name of of a group called No White Saviors. But
it was written by by a young white woman who

(22:35):
had gone to Uganda around the same time Renee was
starting out her NGO there. And this young woman was
a missionary and went to Uganda with dreams of essentially
doing the same thing that Renee did. Um. But after
a little time in the country, it became clear to
her that something really fucked up was happening in Ginger. Uh.
So I'm gonna quote from her medium article. Now, there

(22:58):
was a child referred to our center who had previously
been at serving his children. He and his grandmother stayed
with us for several months while he received much needed
medical care. The day after we had received some good
news about his heart condition, he died of a sudden
heart attack. His three year old body had been through
a great deal of stress and it had finally given out.
We found out that this little boy had suffered a
severe case of malnutrition and was brought to Renee's in

(23:18):
Geo and Messisi. They got him fat and healthy and
then sent him home without so much as any consideration
for the root cause of his malnutrition. There was no
follow up, so he fell sick again, so sick that
his body was not able to come back from at
this time. So yeah, horrible story. UM and the author
of that medium article met with Renee and her social
worker and told them that she considered them partially responsible

(23:41):
for the little boy's death. I explained that had had
she training or experienced in child welfare, she'd know how
critical it is to follow up on cases like this.
I was frustrated at that point, but all I was
asking was that Renee and her team do better follow up,
moving forward to prevent kids from falling through the cracks
and ending upright where they started. It was soon after
this that my concern moved to terror, as I learned
that the poor follow up procedures were far from the

(24:02):
most dangerous thing happening at serving his children. It was
reported by multiple parties that Renee was actively practicing medicine
on children that came to the center. She had medical staff,
but she herself, with no medical training, shows to actively
treat and respond to serious medical needs of children in crisis.
So we got another fake fucking doctor here. Which is

(24:23):
a trend on this show is serial killer ship. Yeah. Yeah,
it gets serial killery um to coin a new verb,
I think. So it became obvious but adjective. Yeah, grammar
is not my strong suit. Okay, you're fired off your
own podcast, Sophie. I was just hoping you'd believe that

(24:45):
it was a verb based on the confidence in my voice. Yeah.
You almost sold me on it by just being white
and authoritative. Yeah. I was like, yeah, that is Wait
a minute. I do the same thing with pretending I
a driver's license, and it usually works. So it became
obvious to the author of this medium post, who is anonymous,

(25:07):
that Renee had apparently trained herself up on YouTube and
started practicing medicine without a license. Local Uganda news sources
spoke to several of her victims. A Ugandan paper called
The Spy interviewed a miss Kakai Rose. She said, my son,
Elijah Benjamin would be two years old today had he
been alive. I delivered him at Ginger Hospital in twenty
first January. Seen. I feel his life was snatched from

(25:30):
my arms by the actions of miss renee Bach. I
hope the court can give me justice. Now. That's horrible,
but it's really light on details. It's hard to tell
exactly what happened there. I found another article from another
Uganda news site called The Independent, which explains why detail
is hard to come by in many of these cases.
They also interviewed numerous women who claimed to have lost
children to Renee Bach and her charity. None of the

(25:51):
mothers knows exactly what happened to her child. What they
all say is that their children were not growing normally
and we're possibly malnourished. They all went to rene Bok
for help and the children died um. They spoke to
Beatrice Kayaga, a legal officer at the Women's Pro Bono Initiative,
which provides legal aid to women in Uganda. Uh The
Women's pro Bono Initiative is currently suing rene Bach on
behalf of dozens and dozens of Uganda mothers. She is

(26:13):
currently being charged in a civil case with contributing to
the deaths of more than a hundred children who were
put into her care. Annett Kikai is one of those women.
She told The Independent, these people did something to my
child and he died. They gave him something. When we
got home. He died. Uh A mets Annette son, Elijah
was not growing normally, so she went to Boxing Geo
for help, since their whole thing was treating cases of malnourishment.

(26:36):
Annette had heard from a friend that there was a
quote white lady who would help feed her one year
old so he would grow up fat and strong. She said,
Elijah was playing, he was laughing. My worry was that
he was too small for his age. The white lady,
dressed in a doctor's uniform white lab coat, took my
son and went with him to another room. An hour later,
back left the room and asked Nette to return to
the facility the next day. When they returned, she and

(26:56):
her baby were putting a car and taken to a
health center in another town. Elijah was given some milk.
We stayed there for two days and they discharged us.
She was not given any documentation or explanation for what
was done to her child. They didn't say anything. They
drove me up to Ginger Amber Court and gave me
basically a pile of cash. When we got home, the
baby became very weak. He died three days later. She sobs.

(27:17):
Those people did something to my child and he died.
So this is these are kind of the details we
have initially coming out of Uganda about what's happening, and
it's hard to pin like what's going on clearly to
a cause because these are these are sick kids in
a country that has not great access to a medical
care and hospitals. But the through line is that a

(27:39):
number of women have the same story. They take their
kids to this clinic, a white woman dressed as a doctor,
gives their kids some medication, performs treatments on them. The
kid dies, and then the lady gives the mother a
pile of cash and their kid's body back. Like that's
the story you hear again and again and again. It's
like what we were saying about being you know, authoritative
and stuff. It's like you put on that white coat

(28:01):
and you come in there being all like white saviory
and you're like, hey, you know, I know what to
do when you take the son away from the mother.
Where is like if maybe you weren't wearing that cloak
of like yeah uh protection because of of your whiteness
and your medical coat, then probably you would be like, hey,

(28:23):
can I stay in the room for whatever happens, you know,
and I see what's going on. Yeah, but you're just
trusting blindly because you're like, well, this person has authority
and medical training. Well, and if you're in a very
poor part of Uganda, you've had Doctors without Borders and
similar groups come by. So you've seen a lot of these,
a lot of a lot of foreigners, Europeans and Americans
and lab coats and carrying stethoscopes, and they've given you

(28:46):
good medical care and your family good medical care. And
you know that that's like a thing that happens in
your area. And so this lady shows up, she's dressed
the same way as someone from Doctors without Borders, and
you just assume she's actually a doctor and perform actual medicine,
which is not the case. I'm going to read another
story from a mother named Zubeta Gimbo. According to The Independent,

(29:07):
they took her son toil Ali Kifabi from her while
she was heavily pregnant. They only returned him home in
a coffin and gave me an envelope with cash in it.
They came in a car and left immediately before burial.
I had questions as to what may have killed my child.
I needed help and explanations. None was given to me
by the woman that came home with the body of
my dead child. Now, Ms Gimbo was confused and obviously heartbroken,

(29:28):
but she didn't take action until she heard stories that
Renee Boch was not actually a doctor. This surprised her
because when her son had been admitted to the medical center,
she'd seen bought connect tubes to the child's arms and
chest Beatrice Kiaga, Gimbo's lawyer, claimed sources who worked with
Box saw her surf the internet for medical advice and
called doctors back in the United States when she had
questions on the treatment she administered. So again, Renee box

(29:52):
intentions seemed to have been good. She she saw that
there was not enough competent medical care here decided that
she could administer it herself. Uh and that like in
the absence of actual trained doctors, her just skyping a
doctor or looking on YouTube for guides on how to
solve issues would be enough to handle it. So it's

(30:15):
both like this, Um, I'm suspicious as fuck though, because
it seems like she was just like trying to find
a cover for like being an angel at death. You know,
I I wonder about that. I the evidence I have
makes me think she was really trying to, um, to
do good. I think it's more which doesn't mitigate at

(30:38):
all the fact that she got a lot of kids killed. Um.
What I'm saying is, if you're noticing that you keep
killing children while you're trying to heal them, if that
was what you were really trying to do, wouldn't you
be like, oh, clearly I'm not doing this. Well I
should probably stop, unless your whole point was to feel
like you're caring and whatever, but then actually to be like, well,

(31:00):
you know, probably it's a mercy to murder them, don't
you think, just to have access. Well, we'll see, is
it we get a little bit through this. I read
through her blog a lot, which has since been scrubbed
by the Internet, but a blog she used to have
a blog, yeah where it's my god. Yeah, we'll be
talking about it a lot. Um. There were hundreds of

(31:21):
kids she dealt with, and most of them didn't die,
and most of them, you know, it's the kind of
thing where, like, you know, how people can convince themselves
that like whatever sort of weird snake oil they take
heals them, just because most problems you have, if you're
a healthy person, you will eventually get over. So if
you're like rubbing fucking a Regano oil on yourself, as
you your body heals naturally, you can convince yourself, oh,

(31:44):
this is Regano oils healing me or whatever, just because
like that's so. She dealt with a lot of kids,
some of whom she was able to give actual help
to just because she had access to the money to
give these kids nutritional supplements. Some of them just got
better on their own, But she has all these stories
about kids is getting better on her blog, some of
which she attributes to like miracles and stuff, which I'm

(32:06):
guessing like that's I think that's another explanation than that
she's a serial killer. Is just most of the kids
she saw didn't die, so she assumed, well, you know,
I'm giving medical care to these kids. They can't all survive,
but I'm still doing a good thing, um, which gives
her more confidence and more confidence to treat more kids,
which means up she ends up killing more kids too,

(32:26):
because she's taking on more and more people and getting
further and further out of her actual area of competence,
which is raising money to provide food for kids. Um,
I guess I did not realize what happens. I guess
I did not realize that she, in addition to killing
a large portion of kids, also saved a large larger

(32:49):
portion or maybe they got back better on the I
didn't realized that there was a high higher survival rate
than death rate because I was in my Georgia Tan brain.
I'm like, probably we're not talking a It's impossible to
say what the rate is because I don't know how
many kids she she actually dealt with. But it also
is like most of the kids she sees are just

(33:11):
kids who aren't they're not dying, they're just they don't
have they're malnourished. So if she's able to like cook
these kids up with like nutritional supplements and better food
than that actually does help them, and then you know,
they go off in it. So she's I think that's
part of and that's that's part of why she gets
I think more and more into providing actual medical care.
Is the more kids who come by with minor problems

(33:32):
and she's able to help, the more convinced she becomes
that she can do stuff like give them fucking blood transfusions,
which is where this story ends up. Um. Yeah, So again,
none of this mitigates the fact that she was performing
unlicensed medical care on children that got them killed. Because
what she's doing is horribly fucked up. I don't think
she's a serial killer. I think she's someone who got

(33:55):
way over confident because of her ability to provide moderate
help to some of these kids. Uh, and that leads
her to kill others of them. That's my interpretation. We'll
see if you agree. As I finished the story. Um anyway, Um,
there is some evidence that she got addicted over time
to playing doctor on these kids. Uh. Kayaga That legal

(34:17):
representative Renee says that Renee hired social workers to comb
government health facilities for new children she could treat. Um,
so she eventually starts actually seeking out really sick kids
that she can perform medical operations on doors. Right. Murder,

(34:37):
absolutely not right? Uh? And this was apparently common knowledge
within the Ugandan missionary community. The author of that medium
post wrote, taking children from actual hospitals and medical centers,
Renee and her team would bring children back to the
center in mess cci. Renee herself would openly talk about
how much she enjoyed hands on medical care. Now, I
would be remiss in my journalistic duties if I did

(34:59):
not note that Renee His family has responded to the
allegations made against their daughter. They deny that Renee performed
any inappropriate medical procedures outside of her certifications and CPR
Basic First Aid and emergency Stabilization. They claimed that saving
his children her in GEO eventually did hire doctors and nurses,
and that any procedures Renee helped and were carried out

(35:20):
under the supervision of these professionals. As evidence, they attach
an image macro. It shows Renee attaching a tube to
a patient, which is apparently a fuller version of a
picture that was attached to that medium article and uses
evidence that Renee was performing medical procedures. And the version
of the picture that the family sends over UH, you
can see a man standing behind Renee, who they claim

(35:41):
as a licensed doctor overseeing her work. Renee's mom attached
a quote to the picture, UH in seeking truth you
must find both sides of the story. That's a quote
from Walter cronkite Um. Now, Renee's family, I think, specifically
her mother published an open letter that kind of is
set it rebuting all of these claims made again her
daughter UM, And that's sort of the the overview of

(36:05):
the claims. They say that number one, you know, children
in this area, there's a high death rate for malnourished children.
So yes, some kids in the care of the center died,
but that's to be expected. They report out all of
them to the authorities. They had doctors on staff. Renee
never performed any inappropriate medical procedures. These are the claims
made by the family UM and the case has not

(36:26):
made its way through the court system yet, but there
are some reasons to doubt Renee and her family's side
of the story. One of them is the fact that
she had a blog that she maintained now SOFA can't
wait here about this dear diary, Today I murdered three children.
It was an okay day. UM. One of the things

(36:53):
that's immediately sketchy about Renee's excite of the case is
that she scrubbed her blog from the Internet after the
lawsuit was five, which makes you think that maybe there
was something incriminating in the blog, like, oh no, I
should have never been writing about my murders. I shouldn't
have been writing about the crimes I was committing. Yeah. Now,

(37:14):
and this is again part of why I think she's
not intentionally killing these kids is she details her breaking
the law a bunch in this blog and doesn't seem
to notice that what she's writing is fucked up. Well,
she's also not smart, clearly. Yeah, I don't think she's
a genius. Now, I wanna give a thanks first off
to the the young writer Nikki Gagnon, who told me

(37:34):
the name of Renee's blog so that I could find
it on the way back machine, which is why we
have access to all these blog posts because obviously nothing
on the Internet has ever gone forever um and there
will be links to uh to renee box blog on
our website behind the Bastard's dot com if you want
to read any of her posts. Yeah, well, right now,

(37:55):
I'm going to have Sophie show you what the landing
page of Renee's blog look like and the name of
her blog was. But the greatest of these is love,
which I think is a chunk from a Bible quote. Now, Sophia,
how would you describe that? Boy? Yeah, oh boy, that's yeah, yeah,

(38:16):
it's it's some again. It's it's like a perfect encapsulation
of this vibe, real serious exploitation vibe. Yeah. It's a
very close up picture of a malnourished child on his
mother's arms, with with with very large eyes looking up
at the camera UM, on a background of what looks

(38:37):
like a burlap sack. I guess she's superimposed the picture
onto not a great graphic designer. UM and her blog
in general is filled with lurid pictures of sick and
injured Uganda children, dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens
and dozens of them. UM, you might call it suffering porn.
Was just going to it that. Yeah, that that's the

(39:00):
overwhelming feeling you get from looking through her blog. UM.
Many of the pictures are before and after, showing children
after time in her care. Others just seemed to emphasize
the suffering and pitiable state of her patients. UM. I
can't over emphasize how many pictures of sick children there
are in this site. And I I have no evidence
that there's also pictures of her performing operations on people. UM.

(39:23):
I have no evidence that the people in those pictures
consented to have their images used um or that the
parents of the kids in those pictures consented to have
their images used. Who knows if those children were murdered
by her like that is so fucked up. Some of
them may have been, because she does talk about some
kids Diane in her blog um Now. She regularly talks

(39:46):
about performing medical operations on children in this blog, although
she always uses the term we for this, So it's
possible that there's medical professionals with her performing these procedures
for some of them, but she's very vague about it.
She almost never as to doctors being present. She occasionally
mentions a nurse being present, but there is no evidence
given in the blog that she's working under their direction

(40:07):
or guidance. She tells frequent stories of children as being
healed by miracles in her clinic after doctors and cities
gave them prognoses of doom and uh. While I was
browsing through her blog, I found some posts that directly
contradict the claims that her mother made in that open letter.
But we're going to get into that after some ads,

(40:30):
because this is a great time for ads by stuff
by stuff by product, unless that product is a charity
that I was actually killing kids. Always do your research.
Always do your research before donating money to some fucking

(40:50):
twenty something year old rich kids charity, But don't do
your research before supporting the companies that support their show.
Is that Is that a good ad pivot? Sophie, No,
you're not. You're not happy with that one. See. I mean,
like it's hard not having you in person, But the

(41:10):
fact that now I'm singing across from Sophie and we
can just both frown at you, it's at the same
time it's pretty great. It's like looking at him in
a beautiful blonde mirror. I can feel y'all's disapproval, uh,
coursing over the airwaves, traveling through the Internet and beaming
out of the screen of my laptop. And how could

(41:31):
you want apart from like regular disapproval that you just
would get from living in Portland. You know, they're different.
There's different flavors of disapproval that you get. But but
but Sophie and Sophia, you both have I would say,
a tangier taste of disapproval. And it really fuels my
heart in the same way that the products and services

(41:52):
you're about to hear ads for fuel this podcast with
their advertising dollars. That's a fucking ad pivot. Are you
proud of mean Sophie. Okay, well, it's as good as
it's getting products. We're back. I'm still proud of myself

(42:14):
for that ad pivot, just like Renee Bach was proud
of herself for her medical charity. Anyway, so we're talking
about Renee's blog, and I found a post in two
thousand fourteen as I was reading through very old articles
in this Man's Slaughterer's child Slaughterers. I'm not sure what
the legal term for her crimes is blog that seemed

(42:35):
to contradict directly the claims made by her mother. If
you will remember, she stated like that open letter stated
that uh, Renee did not perform any sort of medical
operation without um like the direct supervision of doctors and nurses.
That the evidence was a picture of a man standing
behind her. It's a man the man there. Are you

(43:00):
hitting me? How could your teaser of an email practice
a man was standing behind her, was standing right behind
her behind in front of every fag doctor is a
murderous woman also pretending to be a doctor. That guy
might have been a real doctor, But the fact of
the matter is there's documentation that she was performing a

(43:20):
shipload of medical interventions without a doctor present. So I'm
going to read a quote from blog post. The baby's
name is Patricia. She is nine months old. She had
fallen sick three weeks ago. Her mom had taken her
to a health center, but there was no improvement. She
continued to get worse despite my treatment that was given.
One of their relatives told them about a hospital in

(43:41):
Missisi with a white doctor, so that Sunday morning, they
left their home early in journey to Ginger in hope
of finding someone, anyone who could help their daughter. So
you can see right there. At no point did she say,
of course I wasn't a doctor. Of course I wasn't
running a hospital. She presents this as like kind of
like she's proud that she's become known as the white
doctor in Uganda. She's like, um, I don't know. Have

(44:03):
you heard about the logo angel saving and I are
the same. That's the feeling you get reading this blog. Renee,
of course leapt into action. Well, I was listening. I
was attempting to diagnose the many problems that could potentially
be at hand diagnosed. Got it malaria positive HB three

(44:24):
point two. Both are a big problem, and together they
create an even bigger, most likely fatal problem for such
a small child. She needed a blood transfusion and fast.
After doing a search for blood around Ginger Town, we
found her type and it was a match. We started
the transfusion, praying with every drip. About thirty minutes into
her transfusion, she started showing signs of having anaphylactic reaction.

(44:45):
Not good, not good at all. Her neck and face
started swelling a lot. I'm talking about a ton of swelling.
Within fifteen minutes, her breathing went from bad to worse,
her throat was beginning to close. We gave her an antihistamine,
and off to Compoula we went. We arrived at one
of the best hospitals and come Pola by around eight pm,
and then sat in the e er for over three
hours waiting to see a doctor. It was a very
long night, to say the least, but surprisingly she made

(45:06):
it to see the morning. So Renee is posting in
this about giving a child a blood transfusion and giving
that kid the wrong blood which causes an allergic reaction
which can very very easily be fatal. Why did she say,
we found her match. That's how dumb she is. She's

(45:29):
so bad at this blood is red, This blood is red.
She's like, it looks like it's a match. This is
a human. This is taste the same one human. Go in,
one other human that worked for me. It gets grosser
because Renee's story again, she this is part of why

(45:49):
I don't think she's intentionally killing these kids. She shows
no self awareness at how like a person reading this
would be like, you just gave a kid the wrong
kind of blood? What the funk? Lady? Uh in. She
goes on to talk luridly about how in the e
R they found out that she and this little kid
had the same blood type, so she was able to
donate her own blood to save this child, who she'd

(46:11):
actually put in danger in the first place by giving
the wrong blood initially, which like, that's so crazy, it's
so fucked up. It's so fucked up. She's definitely an
insane person who needs definitely of others and for people
to be like, oh my god, yes, but if he
or you gave this kid your own blood, yeah, after

(46:33):
giving the kid the wrong blood. Now, in that open
letter published by her family, Saving, They claimed, Saving his
Children has perfect records of every child they treated and
every child that died in her care. They say Renee
is blameless and all of that, But god damn of
Renee's blog does not paint almost the same picture is
painted in that medium post. There is evidence that the
open letter published by her family contains at least a

(46:55):
few direct lies. For one thing, Renee's family claims that
they first brought a real doctor on to their team
three days a week in two thousand eleven. Perhaps they did,
but again, Renee's own blog posts say otherwise. See and
this is a little bit of a little bit of reporting.
I got to do here because I wanted to make
sure I wasn't slandering this. It would be totally possible,

(47:15):
totally possible that like the ship I saw on Twitter
and whatnot was wrong. Uh, this was just a case
of like, yeah, some kids are gonna die. It's like
it's it's a tough place to perform medical care. I
didn't want to like get sued by the family, So
I was kind of looking for a smoking gun in
the blog that showed that there were lies in the
open letter, and I found at least one thing that
suggests that because that blood transfusion thing happened, I think

(47:38):
in October of two thousand eleven, uh and the next year,
in May of two thousand twelve, Renee posted an update
with the title we need your help UH. In the
post details a story about a woman with a sick
child coming in the night. Renee claimed she and her
staff had to drive around to find a doctor who
could see them. After knocking on just about every door
in the hospital, I found a nurse. She promised to

(47:59):
call a doctor in disappeared again. I made my way
back to the e r and watched, waited, prayed, and
for almost the next three hours, the child in my
arms continue to drift away and the doctor never came.
This story, sadly, is a familiar one, a scenario that
has played out for many sick children that God sends
into our care. It is a terrifying and heart wrenching
experience from mothers who have sought refuge and help in
our home, as well as frustrating for me as I
seek medical expertise beyond my own in a world that

(48:21):
is often just not available. This story and others like
it would be different if we had a doctor. So
that's May of two thousand twelve when she posts that
which seems to make it crystal clear that Saving his
Children had no doctor on staff. In May of two
thousand twelve, Renee explicitly spells out in that post that
her staff includes three full time Uganda nurses and medical
equipment that is not even often available in local hospitals,

(48:43):
but laments not having a doctor on staff. The whole
goal of that post was to raise money fifteen thousand
dollars a year to hire a doctor. Now here's a
quote from the open letter published by Renee's mom. As
a board, we have been approached in the past with
concerns about the amount of medical work being done at
our center and Renee's personal and involvement. Once in the
fall of two thousand eleven, our response was to hire
a Ugandan doctor three days a week, to work with

(49:05):
the nurses, to establish treatment plans, and to be available
for emergency consults. Now, that note about concerns in the
fall of two thousand eleven is clearly a reference to
Renee transfusing the wrong blood into a child, but the
letter of what her family rights in the open letter
makes it sound like saving his children immediately hired a
doctor in response to that. Renee's blog makes it clear
that seven months later, and may have two thousand twelve,

(49:28):
they still had no doctor on staff, and we don't
know how long after that post it took them to
actually hire one. I just love that. Uh, the number
one thing that you would think from a title like
saving his children, that you would have is someone who
could literally save a live a k. A doctor. It's

(49:49):
like she's like, no, let's buy this dialysis machine first.
It's like, probably not the right order. Maybe get the
doctor first, Maybe invest in the doctor. I don't know,
and I think I did wrongly say I wrote it
out wrong when I announced that when I started reading
the story about the blood transfusion, I said, I found
a post from two thousand and fourteen. That post was
from two thousand eleven, um, which I made clear later on.

(50:10):
I just want to make it super clear here. So, yeah,
that that seems to be you know that right, I
will not inaccuracy. I was allowed to believe that you're
a professional. I'm Sophie. Can I go thank you so much? So? Yeah,
that like that seems pretty damning to me. Right, You've
got this letter where they're saying we had concerns in

(50:31):
two thousand eleven and we hired a doctor, and then
you've got Renee seven months later saying we don't have
a doctor and we need one. Like it seems like
a pretty clear example. Not only is number one her
post in two thousand eleven a clear example that she's
performing blood transfusions, which goes against what they say in
the open letter, but the other post in May is
a clear evidence that they didn't have a doctor when

(50:51):
her family claims they had already hired a doctor. So like,
I don't know. That doesn't mean everything that they claim
in the open letter about their clinic as a lie,
but it means at least one thing in that open
letter is a lie, which makes me believe the local
Ugandan reporting uh and the reporting in that medium post
even more because everything they say is internally consistent and
is consistent with Renee's own blog, which was written contemporaneously.

(51:15):
So I don't know, pretty clear she doesn't want the
children to be saved. She wants to be known for
saving children, which is not the same thing at all,
And to her, I don't think the lives matter at all,
which is why I still think she's like a creepy
serial killer. Yeah, it's all well yeah, well, well well

(51:36):
we'll we'll talk at the end of this about like
where we wind up on exactly what we think her
motivations are, although I don't think her motivations really matter.
What matters is that she's giving kids the wrong blood
and stuff and some of them die. Um, which I
think we're Yeah. So, having read the Renee's blog and
several well reported articles from local Uganda journalists, I feel

(51:56):
comfortable saying, uh that I think we've reported on both
sides of the story now, uh, and it seems like
something really messed up is going on here. The author
of that media article alleges that several members of the
Uganda missionary community expressed their concern about saving his children
at varying points. Many of us who have tried to
hold Renee in SHC accountable have been lambastad, yelled at,
and referred to as the enemy by supporters of Renee.

(52:19):
The home church that miss bak attended in Jinja, as
well as a significant portion of the missionary community here,
supported and defended her. Now, according to Spy Uganda's reporting,
or the spy in Uganda. Bach family members seem to
make up the majority of the staff running Saving His Children,
so her mother is the US director of Saving His Children.

(52:41):
Her twenty two year old sister, Eleen, works with the
organization's marketing and social media team. So like the actual
staff that runs the organization is all members of the
Bach family, but the majority of the employees are basically
part time Ugandan employees. So the actual people doing most
of the work on the ound and providing care are

(53:01):
usually Ugandan's in Renee in The people running the company
and doing things like publishing open letters that have at
least one major inaccuracy in them are Renae's mom and sister,
So that's how this charity is run now. Earlier in
this episode, I mentioned Nikki Gagnon, one of the writers
who covered this story. She's the person who told me
how to find renasal blog posts, and Nicki has done

(53:22):
a lot of digging into this case. Her coverage might
be the best that I found so far. For one thing,
she delves deeper into Renee's blog than anyone else. Quote
one harrowing passage from June twelve, two thousand eleven follows
bacause she simultaneously drives a vehicle and administers emergency oxygen
via a bag valve mask to an infant. She writes,
oxygen was finished and I had been driving and bagging

(53:42):
Raheem at the same time. It was working, but wasn't
exactly safe. My sister and two of my best friends
in the world came to my rescue exclamation point. Exclamation point,
exclamation point. They met me along the road with the
oxygen cord, another set of hands to drive, and some
emotional support exclamation point. The baby later died. Wow, that's
too many exclamation points for a post that ends with
a baby death. Yeah, that's paying attention to the important part, like,

(54:08):
oh my god, I have the best friends in the world.
R I P baby baby? What funk are your priorities?
She yeah? Now. Nikki helped me iron out some of
the more confusing details of the case. That medium post
had concluded by noting that Saving his Children shut down
in two thousand fifteen, but other coverage suggested that the
nonprofit was still operational. It turns out that Saving his

(54:31):
Children shut down briefly in two thousand fifteen, when criminal
charges were filed against Rene Bach. With the Ginia Police
and the Ugandan Ministry of Health. Uh, then the organization
started back up again and has been running ever since.
So they shut it down briefly because they were criminal
charges against them, and then started it back up as
soon as they felt like the smoke had cleared. Um Nikki, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(54:53):
so that does make it seem like it's a compulsive
need for her to this place. Of course, it's like, uh,
you know those munchaus On syndrome moms that like need
the attention that they get from like their kids being
fake sick. Yeah, I think that's very much what's going
on here now. Nikki interviewed Olivia A. Lasso, a social

(55:16):
worker and a member of the group No White Saviors.
Olivia Alasso is actually from Ginger. She's a Uganda and
Olivia says that she interviewed a number of families who
claimed their children were harmed by Renee Bach. She shared
the story of a family from Bozica, a rural town
several hours away from Gina, whose baby passed away after
intervention from Bach back in August. Alasso said that means
Renee is still practicing medicine. She went on to explain

(55:39):
that Box supervised the child's care at clinic and ultimately
released the infant after several days. According to the child's mother,
who was interviewed by a Lasso, the baby died after
developing breathing complications despite being evaluated by Boch from malnutrition
at the Kigandalo Health Center in Mayugi. So yeah, she's
at least as all recently, like two thousand eighteen, is
still performing medical interventions, not with a doctor present. Um

(56:03):
you know, yeah cool medical with like air quotes with
air quotes medical. And that she wears a stethoscope. Yeah,
she put on a white robe. So I will say this,
by the standards of the nineteen twenties, she is a doctor.
That is a very high standard. Again, those standards are

(56:23):
has a white coat and stethoscope. Amazing people are you
could afford your own stethoscope? Welcome? Wow, you must be
a doctor. Oh I would have been a doctor in
the twenties, but I would just have sold people morphine,
mainly so I could afford to buy morphine myself. In
the twenties, they still like jerked off women, right, Yeah

(56:47):
they sure did. Yeah, okay, cool, just making sure that's
kind of your best case scenario with a twenties doctor,
because if they're jerking you off, they're not pouring mercury
into you. I don't know, I feel like you probably
do both. Yeah, you probably. And also you're assuming they're
good at jerking you off. Yeah that could really be.

(57:07):
You know, they're bad. Fingering is really is real bad.
One county doctor who was just the best at it,
Like it was like the most popular guy all the women.
He's been married five times. All the women go to him.
They're like, um, yeah, okay. They're like there's another doctor
on staff. They're like, yeah, we don't really want to him,

(57:29):
but your dull oaky farmers sitting around being like, boy,
Dr Johnson's real popular. My wife keeps biking him cakes
all the time. How awful you think a woman gots
to go to the woman doctor. She sees him about once,
I don't know, twice every day, Like, oh that's too

(57:49):
many times. All the women folk are outside of the
doctor's office. Again, feel like this happens a lot, and
it's like they finally like figure out his his skills.
They're like the fingers on his right hands seemed to
be the nails seemed to be trimmed real nice. You
think it's got anything to do with that, And the

(58:10):
women are like, yes, it totally does. Please trim your
fucking fingure. Well, you know, I've done my job. I
made this. Yeah, and in a way, isn't everything. You know,
this story is about child murder. Um, just let me

(58:31):
get a little fingering in, Robert, a little bit, a
little bit, a little bit, a couple of things to
give me a little pinky action. Yeah, we've had held
up her pinky in a very authoritative way. That is
the job of a producer. I would trust you to
finger me. Sophie. You're welcome, Robert. I don't know. We

(58:51):
don't know each other all enough, honestly, And I'm like
a thousand miles away, which is that's the number one
thing that in my finger nails are horrible? Um, corros,
why did you tell your listeners that your female listeners
literally just unsubscribed from the podcast. I'm all about cinema verity,
which is a term I invented to describe how I

(59:13):
do my podcast. We talked about in the Hubbard episode.
Now I want to get back to au it is known.
I want to get back to NICKI Gagnan's article because
she also interviewed a Ugandan former employee of saving his children.
This is like a local person who actually worked at
Renee Box clinic. This guy's recollections are rather damning for us.

(59:33):
We saw many mistakes, but whenever you happen to tell her,
she was not accepting. And you know, it is such
a problem. The worker detailed a case where he watched
Bo give a child of blood transfusion under a tree
and claims he saw that sort of behavior numerous times. Now,
I'm not a medical professional, but I have enough medical
training to say blood transfusions are not generally performed under trees. Whatever.

(59:56):
That sounds like the perfect ambience. Are you a little
bit jealous? I could find like a nice eucalyptus, just
lay down underneath it, get a needle in my arm.
It sounds romantic. It does sound wants to lay with
me in a meadow and get medical treatment administered by
a non professional. You know, she used to behave as

(01:00:21):
if she's a professional, Yet she was not second to
all that. All the volunteers that used to come at
the center, they used to handle medical issues. And I
remember one day confronting the doctors, the African doctors. Why
these whites, they are playing on our children, our children's lives.
You know what the doctor told me. He told me,
even me, I've been seeing that. But you know, a
boss is a boss. There's nothing I can do. Whoa.

(01:00:43):
This is a guy speaking, who's being quoted. English is
not his first language, obviously, and so I don't know
exactly how he meant the term they are playing on
our children, but I know what he means because my
second language. I think he's like, uh, they're playing with
their lives, lives, like they're using them as like experiments.
It's not serious to them exactly, we don't have value. That.

(01:01:07):
That's how I interpreted it too. I think, yeah, he's
he's saying that Renee is playing with Uganda children as
if they're her toys, like playing doctor, playing pretend with
human lives. Um. And I want to show you a
picture Renee Bach took of herself and posted on social media. Now,
this is her as she wants to be seen. And
I think it's very kidding me. Yeah, described that fucking

(01:01:29):
picture Sophia. I mean it's it's like a combo of
that photo of Milannia when she decorated the White House
for Christmas, and it just looked like it was like
haunted by all the families that have been like fucked
up by the administration. It was just very gray and
white and dull, and she was kind of in the
middle as the queen. This has that combined with like

(01:01:51):
a real um uh, what's the show with the bonnets
and the red Oh, handmaid's tale, thank you, it's got
a real handmade handmail is made stale vibe also, and
it's like she's clearly she's like, I am Mother Teresa.
There's white glow around me. I am, I am the bitch.

(01:02:13):
She's standing in the center of a room with a
couple of empty cradles in it, and her hands are
down at her side, with her palms facing forward and
her head bowed down and like a gesture of religious contrition.
There is also there's a she's backlit by a light
shining through a window, which makes her look almost like

(01:02:35):
she's got like a halo, like she's a saint. And
then the walls of the room she's in our plastered
in pictures of sick African children, hundreds and hundreds of
pictures of little shirtless babies, like the ones that she
puts on her blog post all around her like it
is this mother Teresa bitch right here, Yeah, mother Teresa
bitch is the fucking like. You couldn't have a more

(01:02:57):
white saviory picture if you if you try it, Like
if you were if you were making a movie, a
horror movie about a white savior character and you put
this picture in it, everyone watching it would be like, well,
this is for the top, come on on the nose
on a little much, but this is fucking how Rene

(01:03:18):
Bach sees herself, or at least wants to be seen.
I don't know, man, Yeah, yeah, I want to read
a little bit more from that local Virginia news article
I found on box that I opened this article with
or this episode with it. Interviewed Richard Heart, her former pastor,
and he talked a lot about Renee's humility, claiming she
doesn't promote herself and praising her teachability. A teenage girl

(01:03:41):
out of rural Virginia going and making such a huge
difference in Uganda and then just to stay with it
for all these years has been a real testament to
her heart and her character and the humility that she has. Yes,
when I think of humble, I think untrained blood transfusions. Yeah. Also,
I feel like it's always kind of a red flag

(01:04:02):
to me when like the first time a white person
tries to help anybody, they're like, I'm gonna go to
another country and figure it's like you should just be
exposed to the poverty and malnutrition and ship in America
and then you know, maybe try to see how you
can help that community. It'll be less of a shock
for your system. Maybe you won't co opt other people's

(01:04:25):
fucking like lives like that, and you can maybe make
a little bit of progress. I don't know why. Immediately,
I feel like it's got to be such a superiority complex,
like we are better than black people, were better than Africa.
We need to get our hands on it, we need
to help because we know best. And it's like even
funked up attitude it is. And it's like, even though

(01:04:46):
I don't have any expertise in this, because like my
my attitude towards this country, and it goes back to
like the cony thing building this idea that Uganda is
just irredeemably fucked up because things are so fucked up
and This is also you see it in the open
letter her mom wrote where they talk about how often
kids die in Uganda because it's so bad here. It's

(01:05:07):
okay that I'm completely untrained wandering into this situation because
the situation is so fucked up that anything I do
is fine. Like if she had, like you said, if
she'd started by like volunteering at local homeless shelters and
like running a shelter trying to get Maunderish people, and
if she built a really effective program in her local
hometown and helped a few hundred people and then Gonda,

(01:05:28):
Uganda and been like I'm gonna try to do this here,
I'd be like, Okay, well she's got some expertise. It's
the same thing as like, it's not white saviorism. If
you're a white doctor and you travel to Uganda to
offer free medical care, it's not not being a white
savior to be part of Doctors without Borders or whatever
you were. You spend a lot of time to gain
a real skill that is in short supply in an area,
and then you travel there to give part of yourself.

(01:05:51):
That's totally fine. Um, the white saviorism is this person
with no skills with a high school degree rolling into
this place as and being like, yeah, I can do
complex medical ship. What does it matter if I funk up?
Everyone's already fucked here because it's Uganda, Like, that's your attitude.
That's like, that's what's so offensive, um, And it's it's

(01:06:12):
just so dangerous to not be aware of your own
bias to the point where it never occurs to you
to not start there. Here's it does occur to her.
I'm about to read that part. So in her interview
for that article in Virginia, Baca dressed directly the idea

(01:06:33):
of white savior complex. She claims her desire to avoid
that is why she hired mostly local Ugandan's. It's a
real thing. There are people that go there and probably
do what they do for themselves, and the self gratification
from helping people that are less than or who were
super poor or assisting orphans. I think all too often
we as Americans, we think, oh, well, they're just incapable,

(01:06:54):
so we better go and help these people. I think
that's the mindset of a lot of people. And I
would probably say that I even had a little bit
of that mindset when I first went of like, oh, well,
maybe they just can't do it, she said, but they can.
And I definitely learned that very quickly that I'm definitely
not needed here. Then leave, bitch. Yeah, I agree with
you on that you're not fucking necessary, and you're making

(01:07:16):
the situation arguably a lot worse if you found out
there's no need for you fucking leave. I just don't understand.
I mean, I do understand she's a crazy person, but
Jesus Christ, and oh, speaking of Jesus Christ, it's even
more fucked up to tie this into religion too. Yeah, right,
like that somehow is like your holy and like special

(01:07:37):
and doing God's work when you're literally killing children and
it's giving you this whole like, oh, you know, my
mission is not only like good by earthly standards, it's
also good by godly standards. And it's like you're the
furthest thing away from that. And there's so many stories
in her blog of like this kid will get sick

(01:07:58):
and the doctors just say there's no thing that can
be done, and then the kid will get better, and
she'll say, it's like this miracle that we we healed
this child, even though like they said it was impossible.
This is like clearly God healing him, and the kid
goes away, and it's like, well, but okay, there's a
ton of fatal illnesses where it's very common for people
to get better or seem better for a couple of
weeks at a time, because that's just how illness works,

(01:08:21):
and to have a few good days before they take
a turn. And we don't know the whole stories of
these kids because I don't have a whole lot of
faith in fucking Renee box ability to keep records on
these children or let us know how often they don't survive,
you know, or properly diagnose them ever with no medical training.
And that's the that's the thing that that mediam article

(01:08:41):
presents is like it starts with the story of a
kid who goes to Rene Box very malnourished. Renee's clinic
gets the kid nourished again and then just sends him off,
not thinking about the fact that like, well, no, this
kid has a diagnosed heart condition. It can be dangerous
when you're malnourished to feed someone a bunch and get
them a bunch of weight and then send them back
out into the world. Because like number one, that's a

(01:09:03):
huge strain on their system. There's a reason that doctors
are very careful with how they have a ren like
like that's part of the problem, is like when we
get these stories about her saving kids, these stories that
I suspect convinced her that she was good at this, uh,
like she doesn't know if she's actually saving any of
the kids she's claimed she's saved because she's not doing

(01:09:26):
long term follow follow up at all exactly, and like, yeah,
it's it's fucked up, and nothing about I have a
really like morbid note on that, Like, yes, that's a
common thing with if you're treating someone who is hugely malnourished,
that you can't let them eat their fill. It's too much.

(01:09:46):
It's they can't go from having no food to all
the food. My grandpa, who was in World War Two,
said that when they were like outside one of the
death camps, a couple of like uh prisoners that had
run away from the concent concentration camps or whatever, we're
so starving and malnourished, and like they gave them food,

(01:10:07):
and my grandpa was like it was really hard and
heartbreaking to not let them eat a lot because they
would still beg you for food and they like needed
and want it and you just have to be like, no,
you can only have a little bit at a time.
And it's like even somebody like that knows that who
was just you know, you know it from experience, you

(01:10:27):
don't know it from medical training, but just the fact
that you can be more informed as a soldier about
this than even a woman that's pretending to be a doctor. Yeah,
it's super fucked up. Uh. You know. I have a
little bit of a White Savior story myself. Although when

(01:10:48):
I was um twenty two or something like that, my
my girlfriend at the time and I went to Guatemala
with a Catholic church in this charity called I think
the name was Kids Saving Kids, And I was not Catholic.
I was an atheist at that point. I didn't have
much of an interest in the church at all, but like,
I wanted to go to Guatemala because I want to

(01:11:09):
see Guatemala, and the the idea behind what we were
doing on paper is that we were going there to
help build a clinic. So I was like, Okay, well,
I'll get to see Guatemala and we'll build a clinic
and that'll be great. And there was a chunk of
the charity that was useful because a guy who was
an actual doctor came along and he like provided he
was up every day like talking to women and doing

(01:11:30):
like women's health issues and stuff, and that was that
was great. But the rest of us, it turned out
that building a clinic was we didn't. We didn't build
a clinic. We went out into the middle of this
impoverished village in like about two hours outside of Antigua,
and we built a barbed wire fence around a trash
field um And the main purpose of us building it
was so that we could do a big photo op

(01:11:51):
with the mayor and the lady who ran the charity,
who was very proud of herself and spent every day
sitting at the hotel clearly on vacation, and that the
end of it, got to do big photo op with
all these kids that she gave shoes and like the
mayor of this village while we like stood around this
like trash fence that we built. And it was this
realization for me of like, oh, the only thing that

(01:12:12):
we needed to do was send the doctor. And the
doctor complained that like he didn't actually have much in
the way of medicine to hand out to these people.
And if instead of the rest of us coming, we
just sent the doctor with the value of our money, yeah,
on antibiotics for all of these women who because the
water was bad, Like all of these women had u
t e s in this village, Like that was the thing.

(01:12:33):
He was like, I've never seen this, but like there's
not much I can do because I don't have any
medication for them. If the twenty thirty kids that like
flew out there and got put up in a hotel
for a week and whatever, if we just put that
money into antibiotics, real good would have been done. But
instead there's a barbed wire fence around a trash field
in a rural village in Guatemala. So yeah, it's it's

(01:12:58):
it's really dumb. Uh. So if you want to help
places like this, maybe give some money to doctors in
that borders or something, actual medical professionals. Yeah, like that's
that charity navigator, do a little bit of research figure
out yeah, real bad charities. Yeah, yeah, it turns out

(01:13:23):
that everything's terrible. I mean, as a breast cancer survivor,
I'm super sensitive about people giving money to like Season
J comen or like really shitty um breast cancer organizations
that just really spent the money on like publicity and
overhead and never actually on women. Yeah, it's crazy how

(01:13:50):
often stuff like that goes down, and how when you
actually go to places where people need help, the folks
doing actual useful work get very little money. Uh, like
are operating on a shoestring budget, whereas like the groups
that get the most money get the most money because
they're able to do big, high profile PR events which

(01:14:12):
cost a lot of money. And yeah, it's it's fucked
up doctors of that borders is pretty sweet though, Yeah,
can give them your money, don't Yeah? Yeah? All right? Well, uh, Sophia,
you wanna you want to plug your plug doubles at
the end of this very happy episode about child murder. Yeah,
I mean I feel people want more, you know what

(01:14:33):
I mean? How could they not want more of me?
After this? You can find me, uh, I host a podcast,
co host a podcast called Private Parts Unknown. Um it's
about love and sexuality around the world, and you can
find me at the Sophia t h E. S O
f I y A on Twitter and Instagram twin Instagram,

(01:14:56):
Sofia Private parts unknown. Check her out, can also check
me out. I'm Robert Evans and I'm on this podcast.
You actually you already have checked me out and there's
nothing more. You can do, nothing at all, So uh
go home. You're knowing that you have checked me out.
Check out, Sophia. I don't. I think that's everything? Is

(01:15:19):
that everything, Sophie is? She shaking her head angry. She's
very over me. That's because I didn't plug any of
the plugable So I was just trying to exasperate Sophie
because it's what I live for it and I think
she got it. I think she got that message. You
can find us on behind the Bastards dot com. You
can find me at I right okay. On Twitter. You
can find this podcast on Twitter and Instagram at bastards pot.

(01:15:42):
You can find us on tea Public, where you can
buy a shirt that does not help a good cause,
but will go to pay for my coffee and narcotics.
Behind the Bastards at te public dot com, where you
can donate to medicine, sinse Frontiers or something like that. Um,
that's the end of the podcast. I'm sorry, Sophie, please

(01:16:04):
forgive that. Where's my apology. Wait, wait, what would I
do about Viea Sophia does dad Baby's over and over?
You staffed the humor for me. We're gonna talk about
We're gonna talk about YouTube in the next episode, and
I feel like this is a trap. Yeah it is.
It's it's always a trap with behind the bastards. That's
the episode.