Coral Reef Madness!

I'm joined by the McElroy brothers to talk about CORAL! Why is it alive? Is it coming for us? Can you really get through life with only one hole? And can crabs teach us how to combine the art of cheerleading with that of boxing? 

Guests: Justin McElroy, Travis McElroy, & Griffin McElroy 

Footnotes: 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19CROfPYR-ROWOQY4aFd8YMj6L5-LTkHCZU95ZXVDswM/edit?usp=sharing

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Creature feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm
your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology
and evolutionary biology, and today on the show Coral Reef Madness,
from how reefs can begin, from the tenious microscopic grain
of living rights to the bleaching that threatens our reefs

(00:27):
and what we can do about it. Will also discover
some of the fascinating inhabitants of reefs, including some little
dudes who wear living boxing gloves. Discover this and more
as we answer the age old question can you go
through life with only one whole? Joining me today our
podcasting legends and hosts of My Brother, My Brother and Me,

(00:49):
as well as the adventure Zone ether Ce, Justin Travis,
and Griffin McElroy. Welcome you guys us. Yeah, they so
much for coming on. I am a big fan of
ether C As someone who loves marine biology, I am
super impressed with how you guys incorporate marine biology into

(01:12):
the show. That's very nice to hear considering just how
little research work went into that particular. It was mostly
me looking at pictures of deep deep sea creatures and
saying that looks cool, But I refuse to learn anything
else about it aside from just that. But the extent
of my research is watching the Anything, where David Attenborough

(01:35):
talks about weird fish that light up deep down onto
the Look at this guy, this one, this one's real weird.
That's really good. Is David Attenborough here, sir, justin tuing
some kind of like cockney David Attenborough, And I don't
understand from it's this is fish, wouldn't it? Friends, Well,

(02:02):
whatever you did, I really appreciated it. I really loved
the giant flatworms wonderful and of course the hero zooks
uh a being made of coral and symbiotic creatures and
just the whole underwater environment. It's such a wonderful story.
And it inspired me to do a whole episode about
coral reefs because I think they're one of the coolest

(02:25):
things on planet Earth. They're one of those things that
as Dad actually knows more about coral having sort of
been the uh the one who came up with a
lot of the way that like living coral beings worked
in in ether cy uh and and so he got
very very very into them, and every time he would

(02:48):
tell us stuff about the way coral worked. Uh, it
always seemed made up, and I know it wasn't. It's
just kind of a wild thing. Coral colonies are. It's inspiring.
If only us humans could get it together as much
as they they have. It's so rad when you first
start learning to learn about coral as a kid and

(03:08):
someone's like, that's alive, and you're like, okay, yeah, right, sure,
in the same way that trees are alive. I know
what alive is. Like, come on, does it eat chips? No? Okay?
Is it moved by the music of Carly Ray Jebson,
then we know it's not alive. Yeah. No, If it
doesn't like Tacki's dust off its fingers, it's not alive.

(03:31):
Thank you. Wait, hold on, Justin you said that with
a lot of confidence. Do you know that coral isn't
moved by the music of Carl Ray Jepson. Have you
ever seen coral dance? Well? No, but I don't like
to dance, said, there you have it, And here comes
Katie with the first coral fact. It does dance. But
maybe the first fact coral is very shy, very embarrassed.

(03:55):
It's stage fright, okay, always looking at its little coral
feet mom, uh, doing that dance you do and you
don't really want to dance exactly. But yes, it is
alive and it can actually move, especially in the first
stage of its life. So coral are nidarians. They're related
to jellyfish and see an enemy. Uh. So the way

(04:17):
coral reefs form is it starts out as a free
swimming larva. So it swims around like a little tiny
grain of living rice. Uh. And it's scoots. It's very cute.
It just kind of scoots around. It has a bunch
of microscopic little hairs that wiggle around, allowing it to swim.
It swims but first, which is interesting. Yeah, nice, the

(04:40):
best way to do it. I'm looking at a picture
of one here you've included. It does look like just
a doctor shoals like gel insert that somebody has thrown
into the ocean um And are you sure that you're
not being bamboozled in some in some way and that
this is not a gel insert? I mean, I am
looking at it and it does look like a gel insert.

(05:02):
I would it would be nice if we could just
harvest ergonomic inserts from the ocean. Y. Yeah, that's much
more sustainable. It would be back to the sea where
you be, where you began. Everyone just throwing their shoes
out there. I got my sea legs and my orthopedic inserts.
Um no, but they're tiny. The brand, isn't it? There

(05:25):
is there? It is? We killed a million of these
little baby Nigerians just to make your feet feel like
they're walking on clouds worth it? Yes, So coral larva
is called a planula, and they swam around but first,
and then it looks for a good rock to settle on.
And it's very choosy because it's going to spend the

(05:46):
rest of its life there. Now you know a lot
about evolution of animals, right, so there's no way they
started off swimming butt first, like there had to be.
They were all swiming face first, and then why don't
start doing but first? And they're like Jerry and then
they all died and they're like, okay, Jerry nice. Yeah,

(06:07):
what Jerry's doing, He's got have have we tried swimming
but first, because maybe it's more effective. Yeah, it feels better.
I mean if you think about their intention, right is
to settle on a rock, so they have to like
sit on it. So if you go but first you
just kind of like, all right, and I sit here now.

(06:27):
So so they like surfaces that have already been inhabited
by coral or surfaces with a lot of algae growing
on them. The coral erva can actually detect chemicals released
from algae and are attracted to it, and so once
they have latched onto its new home, the planiela undergoes metamorphosis,

(06:48):
turning into a polyp, which is the best. I love
the biological terms that just melt in your mouth, like polyp.
I don't love that melt in my mouth. But I
also him not like an animal expert, So maybe you
have a different sort of metric for for what is
phonetically pleasing for me? Paul paulp conjures up an unpleasant

(07:11):
image in my mind. Yeah, you know, you you have
to be in the know. It's the jargon, you know,
that's no matter what. Proboscus is great. Proboscus is fun
to say. That polyp is fun to say in a
different way, it sounds like something like goopy dropping from
a height, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean these

(07:33):
are they are a little goopy, to be fair. So
polyps take many different shapes. Generally they look like little mushrooms,
flowers or seeing enemies. And at this point it has
anchored itself to the rock. Uh, and it quickly starts
to reproduce by butting. So I want you guys to
take a little trip to a place I call imagination

(07:55):
station where we get deep inside our thoughts and think
if like you suddenly have like a pimple, And but
it's not a pimple, it's a tiny you, and it
keeps getting bigger and bigger until you have a whole
new you attached to you, right next to you as
your new best friend. Well, I wouldn't get along with me, frankly,

(08:17):
that's a huge assumption, Katie. Yeah, just the one of
me already gets on me's nerves. So I imagine if
there was a bunch of me's sertifying for me's attention,
that would get that would get old pretty fast, also
sort of uh you know, visually horrifying. Yeah, me better
have a plan to buy their own drugs because I

(08:37):
don't have Listen, I can't keep two of us. That's
the expenses out of control. Does the new one except
that I was the original, because that also would be
a problem problem. Thank you, Travis New me's better keep
me his hands off. My wife's yeah, are you I lost?

(09:04):
You can have her mud Where copies getting worse, they
just get more aquatic. Okay, but Multiple City would have
been a way different movie if he had just not
completely detached from the original host body, if it was
just for Michael Keaton's just wobbling around on two pairs
of legs, that would have been a way better flick. Actually,

(09:24):
do not know that Andy McDowell would have been like,
I'll let me kiss you please, fair enough getting into
Cronenberg territory there. But so it is a form of
a sexual reproduction, self cloning to produce exact copies of
the original, which, as you guys have pointed out, it's
kind of nice that in humans, like we kind of

(09:46):
scramble up our kids a little bit so that they're
a little different, but you know, but maybe better, better,
better versions of ourselves. So it is through this process
of butting that a single polyp becomes a colony, and
you can see the huge extravagant structures. So some individual
polyps can be quite large. Some of the biggest are

(10:07):
like five inches across, like the size of your hand.
Um such as mushroom corals, but most of them are
teeny tiny, real small, just about a millimeter wide, and
can only be viewed with clarity by underwater microscopes. But
it is the sheer volume of them, the number of them,
that creates these large coral structures. So some coral structures

(10:29):
are made up of thousands and thousands of clonal polyps.
One estimate is that for species. Can I can I
ask you a quick question, and I'm I'm really embarrassed
my house since here this is is underwater microscope, a
microscope made to go underwater, or just a microscope you
took underwater. It's I think it's made to go underwater. Um, Okay,

(10:50):
I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't know, I've
never but so don't feel bad for that question. But
I'm gonna assume, Like again, I'm not a physicists, but
I'm gonna assume something happens, like with the water refraction
of the light, that you have to change things. If
you had said that in a different tone of voice,

(11:11):
I would have believed it. Can you just use all
the tones of voices, try them all out, Try them
all out for size, to see if any of them
would sound like I know about it, so um each
uh yeah. So but some of these coral polyp colonies
can be quite large. So uh, each square meter of
coral hosts about ten thousand small polyps, and a coral

(11:35):
structure of clonal individuals can reach up to sizes of
millions and millions of polyps. So that's a lot of polyps.
That's my favorite catchphrase from Family Matters. That's a lot
of pollups. Yeah. I love in Family Matters when they
had the coral boy who showed up and took over

(11:56):
the whole house. It's so all of that just comes
from the one larva of that chilled out and was like,
this is a good spot. I'm gonna make more of
these a million times over. Well, it came. The first
few came from that one, and then other ones came
from the other ones, and then other ones came from
those guys, and so it's sort of exponential growth because

(12:16):
you have it's not just one pulp, like okay, I
gotta do the millionth one. Now they're all starting to
make these I understand, basically compound interests, and I don't
know how we're not just swimming these things I hear
that they're in they're a bit a bit of trouble lately.
But like do a little math that we should all

(12:36):
be coral and corel should be everywhere. Right. Well, I
think it's less like uh, compound interests and more like gentrification,
where it's the coral going like I think this neighborhood
is really ready to take off, and then they swarm
into that neighborhood and right now there's not a lot
of neighborhoods ready to take off. Yeah, I mean it
is it's interest. You would think like they would just
cover everything, but you know, you have a lot of

(12:58):
other factors things that want to eat them, like other
coral that is competing with them and actually attacking them.
And of course each polyp is not immortal. Even though
coral structures can last a really long time, they can
last from hundreds to thousands of years, each polyp has
a lifespan of like, you know, maybe a couple of years. Uh.

(13:18):
So it is that if they were unrestricted in growth, yes,
they could cover the entire ocean, but there's a lot
of uh, interceding forces, sometimes not great like you know,
people doing boo just eating them. Like so many foods,

(13:39):
just reaching in there and grabbing a big crunchy chunk
so um, you know. And speaking of like the crunchiness
of coral um, which is something I do like to
think of the mouth feel of coral, is that there
is hard and soft coral. So soft coral is held
together by a jelly like glue substance. And the most

(14:02):
they have in terms of skeletal structure are these delicate,
spiny protrusions of calcium carbonate. We don't really think like
when we think of coral, we think more of hard
or stony coral, which produced much more calcium carbonate, which
is actually the same material that is used to make
shells like seashells. And they form this hard rock like

(14:23):
skeletal structure that protects their little polyp bodies. And so
by creating this massive skeletal structure of calcium carbonate, they
can make massive, massive structures like the Great Barrier reef
off the coast of Australia that covers thousands of square
miles like a hundred and thirty thousand square miles which

(14:45):
for Europeans is three hundred and forty thou square kilometers,
and go cubits are my one weakness. I don't know
I knew it. Yeah I didn't. I didn't know where
allowed to curse. Nice. Actually, for all the curses, I
have to put a little quacksound over it, which, to

(15:07):
be fair, is funny. So you should use you should
use a choral sound effect. You think I don't have that,
I do? You just wait, like I don't know five
minutes that coral that started it. I bet the polyp
started a great barrier. It feels pretty freaking proud of themselves. Yeah,
they're pretty smug. They weren't long long, long, long, long, long, long,

(15:30):
long long dead. I bet they'd be like, but they're clones.
You know, some of their clones might still be real. Well,
it's more like what you need to see, my I
d do you know who I'm The clones, clones, clones, clones,
clone off My great great great great grand coral started
this reef? Yeah, pal mine too, Yeah, you're right. Yeah,

(15:50):
well there's been a twenty thousand years of these annoying
polyps arguing over that, and in fact, they actually a
lie on top of an even older skeletal reef structure
that's over six hundred thousand years old. So that's all
basically dead. But what coral love to do is reuse

(16:12):
the old structures that old dead coral have made. So
like if a new polyp comes on and it's like, hey,
this is pretty great, I'm going to use the skeleton
of this long dead coral uh and live there. So
when they build these structures, even if the polyps themselves
die off, they are still very useful for new polyps.
And of course all of these surrounding sea life to

(16:33):
take shelter in. Uh. It's it's really amazing. It's an
amazing kind of architectural feet of these tiny, stupid, almost
brainless animals. Is that why they like, don't they like
sink old like battleships and stuff to be like starters
for coral? Because I always thought like nobody asked, like
the coral didn't ask for you to do that. It's
just somebody said, like, what are we gonna do this ship?

(16:53):
I don't know, man, maybe the coral will use it,
sink it. You couldn't come up with a different way
than just putting our garbage on the bottom. Okay, well yeah,
actually that's been done a few times, and it's because
coral really likes to have a structure to build off
of it. And if they don't have that due toy
like uh you know, storms or trawling and destruction, you

(17:16):
actually need to replace it with something so like the Titanic.
It's maybe it was an inside job by Coral enthusiast.
Thank you. Yeah, this is what I've been saying. I
nobody listens to me, but the truth will be revealed someday. Katie.
A second ago, you you described Coral is stupid, and
I just wanna um celebrate you for having the courage.

(17:36):
A lot of us will just let Coral get by
with being beautiful and endangered. The one who's like and stupid.
It's so dumb. Yeah, it's so dumb. What's your favorite
book by Coral? Just a trick to dumb that? Yeah.

(17:56):
I think that it is important to point out the
dumb animals because there are smart animals and for like
all life has, you know, something to offer. It's like,
well yes, but yeah, come on. I saw a news
report not too long ago and the headline was that
the Titanic is disappearing at an alarming rate, and all

(18:20):
I could think it's like, yeah, man went right under.
But apparently there's bacteria eating up the Titanic and people
are worried about that, and I'm like, seems like it
seems like a bad ship to sea. Yeah, you called
my hat. We don't know that rot. You know, it's
got emotional intelligence about coral, Like it knows when to

(18:44):
gimme space. Yes, it knows when to talk, but more
importantly when to listen. You know what I mean. It's
a great listener. Yeah, that's a good point. Just might
not have your book learning. It didn't go to your
fancy ivy league school, but it learned on the street.
Katie Swart, Katie, I never, Katie, Coral knows how to

(19:08):
change a tire. It can do Like here's the thing
you do, you know how to change your own oil?
I don't, but maybe Coral does. But it doesn't. It doesn't,
It doesn't. It doesn't actually know how to do that.
It is I mean, it is true like actually Coral
as a group, right accident way that is more intelligent
than each individual polite. For instance, they actually have these

(19:29):
battles with other corals. So like the reef is full,
it is very crowded, and so they will actually attack
their neighbors try to like eat them or attack them.
Uh and the way they eat actually so like their
mouth is I got this is a big bombshell. But
their mouth is also their butt, so not so wait,

(19:51):
how do you know they're but first, Katie, if their
seems like that's their face and there, But who are
we to decide what a butt is? I mean it's
where the poop comes out when there, when they don't
wear the before poop goes in. That's what I call
faded by the way. Pop. That's that's good, that's uh. Yeah.

(20:15):
So they take in food out of the same hole
that they excrete from. Once they attached to the rock ones,
they become sessile the coral and they have a ring
of tentacles around their mouth but that they can actually
shoot a stinging cells out of, just like their cousins,
the jellyfish that they can use to stun or even
kill prey. So they have toxic mouth butts that they

(20:38):
used to kill or stun prey or also attack other
coral that's next to them. So you know, can't change
a tire, but they can attack people with their mouth butts.
Isn't it weird when when when they do like the
End of the Year Podcast Awards of the podcast that
includes the phrase toxic mouth butts. It is not the
winner of all categories because it feels like it should be.

(20:59):
They you thank you for saying that. I appreciate that.
So it's also like I have been trying to make
this catchphrase that the cloaca of of the birds is
the one hole that does it all, and it's just
like it's never caught on. Uh you know, yeah, it's true.
Although I'm very upset that it's cloaca. We said it
wrong for a little bit. It's kloka kloaca, cloaca. It's fine,

(21:24):
let's call the whole thing off. It's the whole thing off.
In these polyp wars, is it like polyps from the
same colony or is this like opposing How does that work?
Usually it's opposing colonies will try to fight each other. Okay,
So one reef is made up of lots of different colonies.

(21:44):
It's not one like macro colony. Absolutely, yes, thousands and
thousands of different species of coral will occupy a reef,
and in addition to actually eating with their mouth butts,
they have another very important way of absorbing nutrients and
that is through symbiosis with zooxanthela, or as it's phonetically pronounced,

(22:06):
zooks anthela. So that is the name of a character
that you've got. Your dad came up with an ether
c um who is It's really great. I love that
character so much. It touches my marine biology loving heart
because it is this creature that is made up of
the kind of the sum of its parts, like it is,

(22:27):
incorporates all of this life within itself. And indeed, zoax
anthela are microscopic algae that live inside the tissues of
coral and they're quite welcome there because this algae can
use photosynthesis and it passes the benefits onto the coral.
The coral gives the algae a home protection and then

(22:47):
the algae provides the coral with nutrients compounds like oxygen
and glucose and amino acids and it is uh, it
gives them a huge amount of energy and nutrients. Um. Yeah,
which is incredible. I love that. Yeah, me too. How
come I don't have any friends like that? Why can't

(23:09):
we photosynthesize? I don't know, it seems like an oversite.
But the algae symbiots also gives the coral a lush
color and are responsible for many of the glorious hues
you see in reefs. However, when coral reefs are stressed,
the algae can die or be expelled, leaving the coral
this definitely pale white, which is called coral bleaching. Another

(23:31):
thing that you guys had in your podcast, which again
I loved. I really I think it's such an important
thing also to people, for people to know about um
because without this symbiotic algae, these coral are at risk
of dying because they've suddenly lost such a major component
of the nutrients that they need. Now do these coral

(23:51):
or do they ever like voluntarily get their mouthbuts bleached?
Or is that just is that not? Yeah, that's what
it is. It's not because of just sort of pollution
and human interference that bleached coral our thing. It's just vanity.
They all they all read the magazines. They all know

(24:12):
what's hot right up today? Is your mouth? But attractive
to your I guess yourself, my mouth, but it looks
like garbage. I got to go see Dr Clemens. I
don't want to read produce with myself at off. Well

(24:33):
on that lovely note. I think we should take a
quick break and when we come back, we will talk
more about bleaching in a way that is maybe different
than advertised. I think, all right, so we will talk
about what causes bleaching. This is the like sad part
of the episode where I have to talk about global
warming and environment and how you know, but we've got

(24:57):
we will end up happy. Y'all can't see Katie, but
Katie's use a lot of air quotes here. It's very
it's it's the global warming that we're all feeling right now.
Because the temperatures are hot. Um so yes, global warming

(25:17):
and other things like pollution of farm runoff can cause
the coral to violently expel the algae because the algae
will start to actually produce toxic materials when they're when
water temperatures are too high. And while this doesn't actually
immediately kill the coral, even though they kind of look

(25:37):
dead because they're white and pale. Without the energy that
the zoo ex ampola provides, which is sometimes up to
of the coral's nutrition, the coral can starve to death
if they do not regain their algae in enough time,
and they can't so like you may see a bunch
of algae that looks super dead, but they are actually

(25:57):
able to regain their algae if can issitions improve um.
And again, this is I think a wonderful thing in
ether Sea where the Zook's character would touch a piece
of bleached coral and it would come back to life.
And this is actually something that can happen. Our show
is very scientific. You're absolutely right. I haven't thought about

(26:18):
it was made up. I worried that that was that
that was made up, but hey, I'm glad that we
have a lot of science is made up until you
can prove it's true. Griffin's science, you make it up
and you say it enough times until people start to
believe it. That's yes on this scientifically accurate program. I'd
like to say that this is how science works. So

(26:38):
uh So, this year, actually the Great Barrier Reef experienced
yet another mass bleaching event, affecting up to six of
the reef due to rising temperatures UM. But the heat
wave ended soon enough, and actually the Great Berry Reef
is undergoing one of the most impressive revive in like

(27:01):
over thirty years, which is really heartening. I think it's
really really important for people to know that it is
definitely not too late. You hear all of this news
about the environment being in danger, and it's very true,
it's very important to listen to. But I think people
get this kind of like do me, feeling like there's
nothing we can do at this point. The reefs are dead,

(27:22):
We're doomed. It's like, no, the barrier reef underwent this
horrific bleaching and now is reviving back in an astounding way.
Doesn't mean we can relax, because of course, if like
we continue on the path of global warming pollution. I
don't know, uh, sunscreen, that is bad. Like, there's so
many things that end up happening, Like you use the
wrong snorkel and then you kill off an exotic fish.

(27:47):
I even worry about it, you know what I mean.
It's like, you know, I don't think that's the take away.
I don't think if you don't, you know, I don't.
I don't know. I think that that, Um, I'm really
sorry that I have to make this show. I think
that that is a really impressive revival and second only
to the revival of swing music in the late nineties. Okay,

(28:10):
I was gonna say, like the most impressive revival since
Funny Girl. But then I realized that that was in
the news and I don't know why, so maybe I
I don't know that either. I don't know why that either.
I was also gonna say banjo music at first, in
like the two thousands, and that I thought, Yeah, I
thought swing music would be more applicable. I don't want
to go behind the bit anymore. I will actually hear

(28:32):
more about coral, so uh, to be clear, justin I
would say that we learned from if we learned from
our mistakes, like, hey, sunscreen is actually super bad for coral.
You actually see no sunscreen. That's like, hey, we fixed it.
It's not so bad anymore. So you can go out
and not get skin cancer but also not kill coral.
So we can actually learn and then we fix things

(28:55):
and it's definitely not too late. Coral can revive, it
can make a comeback, and so there are also other
really fun things that people can do to help coral reefs.
And these are things that I think are It's really
nice because it's like on an individual level, we often
feel like like, uh, like, yes, we want global warming
to stop, we want to save the environment, but what

(29:16):
can I do as a person. It's hard to conceptualize
what you can do as an individual, but there are
a lot of really interesting coral revival projects that people
can join. So you can replant coral uh and volunteers
in coral nurseries can grow coral saplings. And then if
you enjoy snorkeling or scuba diving, you can you're shaking

(29:39):
your head. I don't belong down there. That's not my place.
I breathe the air, Katie, I've belong up here's safe.
I wouldn't make a fish come up here. Why would
I go down there? Well, there's actually stuff that people
who don't like the water can do, so like you
can either do snorkeling and like replant things. You can
even do surveys, like if you enjoy snorkeling recreationally or
scooba diving recreationally, you can make surveys of coral reefs.

(30:03):
But if you like to stay on land, I actually
agree with you. I get a little freaked out with
the water. Um. You can build things like coral trees,
which are like these. They're these weird, sort of very
dystoping looking metal pronged trees, but these are used as
structures for coral to grow on, and they like basically

(30:25):
put them under the water, like these weird post industrial
Christmas trees and hang like pieces of coral off of it,
and it's like okay, you go now, and eventually the
coral will grow over this metal frame. And it's but
it's great because like people can just do that and
build that in case, in case we have some over
zealous listeners, that's probably something you should arrange with someone

(30:48):
before hammering. You shouldn't just like make like eighteen weird
metal trees and then start calling people like, all right,
who puts these in the ocean? For me, that's probably
a good good call. But I you know, you, you
do you. I'm not going to say not to build
a bunch of weird metal trees. Just know that you
may want to have a plan afterwards. Possibly. Yeah. I mean,

(31:12):
it's an amazing kind of thing. It's like people are
just like, hey, we can actually regrow stuff. And actually,
you guys mentioned earlier sinking things that has been done
a lot um the off the Gulf of Mexico. They
sunk an entire aircraft carrier that has been dubbed the
Great Carrier REEF oh, I know. Imagine the one guy

(31:34):
who got to clean out his bunk and he's like
just one earbud left down there, just words. And it
was also done in Florida with an old missile tracking ship. Um.
It was done off the coast of Thailand with decommissioned
tanks and Turkey uh sunk an airbus plane off the

(31:57):
Aegean coast. So it's it's super satisfying to me when
they like sink military equipment and it's like, it's the
corals now you have it. Yeah, the Coral fight over it,
unless unless the Coral knows what they have now with
all those things. You know what I'm saying. Listen, now,

(32:18):
this is okay to book end it. We started it
talking about why isn't coral everywhere? And then Katie's like,
coral can come back, but let's not get to cozy
with the idea of coral coming back super hard. We
need to keep it in balance, you know what I mean.
We don't want too much coral because now they've got tanks,
now they've got airplanes, now they've got aircraft carriers. It's terrified, y'all.

(32:39):
Feel like the next great horror movie is like right
there right, like Coral decides like that's enough, I've had enough. Well,
I feel like we've Mushroom zombies are really hot right now,
So I think coral zombies is the next, the next
big thing. I like that, just like coral coming out
of your eyeballs and like I I want to I

(32:59):
don't like Katie, why do you like that? I mean
it's the same reason I like the word polop. I
guess broken, deeply, deeply, immeasurably emotionally broken, welcome, welcome forward.
So yeah, it's it's uh, I mean, it's the swords

(33:21):
and the plowshares kind of thing with these sunken military
equipment or like swords into reef reef shares. We can
move on because this joke sounds too smart for risk.
I didn't know the original, so I didn't definitely didn't
get the bungeline. Yeah, it's something that I heard. I
was like, this will sound good and smart, but uh, well,

(33:43):
thank you. It worked. Yeah, so this has actually been
done for a real long time. In ancient times, Persians
built an underwater defensive wall against Arabian pirates by building
an artificial reef for the boats to break upon. And
in seventeenth century Japan fishermen would create artificial reefs to

(34:06):
grow help and increase fish yields. So yeah, we've been
sort of engine like engineering coral reefs for a real
long time. My favorite now And occasionally I'll see like
people will put like statues, sink statues to like give
coral place to grow, and then other people like throughout
you know, read it in the Internet, will be like
it's proof of ancient civilizations and it's time like that

(34:28):
was put there in like two thousand sixteen. What are
you talking about. It's like a coral chia pet. That's
also it's like get a Homer head down there, put play, Yeah,
like a Marge head, put some Aquaman three. It will
be a really good tie in for the But a
big Jason Momoa down there. Ah yeah, now that I

(34:51):
love that. Now I want one, But not just because
it's Jason Momoa, but you know, coral chia pets. So uh.
We also have a way to draw visitors to these
new coral reef settlements because one of the things that's
important is like we just we put a thing down
in the ocean, right and we're like, hey, it's a
new home for you guys, and then the fish are like,

(35:12):
what what do you mean? Like, okay, I don't really
know what you're talking about. So we have to make
it seem already lived in, you know how, like when
you go to an open house in the realtor like
bakes cookies and like, you know, it's yeah, yeah, Like
here's the crumpled magazine in the bathroom. Mah, could you

(35:35):
imagine yourself having this magazine. They do that with coral reefs,
so they will actually play the sounds of a healthy
and thriving coral reef to attract fish to it and
other coral reef inhabitants, uh, so that they don't feel
like they're going to a ghost town even if they are,
which is like I guess if a restaurant played like

(35:56):
the sounds of happy, chattering patrons and you go in
there and it's like a little weird because everyone's like
there's just these mannequins everywhere, but it sounds like everyone's happy.
I think it's really nice that you said that that
would be a little weird, Okay. I think that's very
forgiving of the ownership of that restaurant that if they

(36:17):
blasted sounds of happy people eating, and I walked in
and it was full of mannequins. But I would think
this is a little weird, yea four stars a little weird,
little weird for a little weird. But they did mention
the word poll up quite a few times. Yeah, and
what a brusquet. Sorry one more time, Katie, what was

(36:37):
that noise? Well, here it is. Here is the noise
of a healthy and thriving Uh oh, sorry, so paulop
is on a monto poetic. It's what you're telling me.
All that crackling sound are shrimp clicking. There a little

(37:01):
clause and then various fish making calls. Because we think
of them as being silent. It's just we can't really
hear them with our bad not water ears. I don't
know that I would describe my ears as bad just
because they can't hear coral underwater. I think that's setting
an awfully high bar for hold on, Can you guys
not hear the sound of coral underwater? I hear it
all the time. Is that not what's wrong with me? Well,

(37:25):
so that is the sound that they play to these fish,
and it actually is apparently effective for fish. They're like, hey, yeah,
it sounds like there's a party going on and they
go over there and they hang out. Well, yeah, fish
are dumb. I mean as long as they're highlighting which
features are in are not intelligent? Fish are up there, man,
I mean on a sliding scale, i'd say, like, they're

(37:47):
not the dumbest. Well, no, that's polyps. Yeah, that's true enough.
So when we get back, we're going to talk about
some of the most interesting inhabitants of world reefs, my favorites. Uh,
and then we'll end with a little game. So we
are back and I want to talk to you guys

(38:09):
about some of my favorite inhabitants of the coral reefs,
Like a funny neighbor, or like that teacher that you know, like, oh,
they believe in you. That kind of thing. Neighbors that
believe in you. I don't know, the neighbors don't the
teacher believes in your neighborries a little nosy. I see
the nosy neighbors, the teacher who believes in you. It's

(38:31):
more about crabs though, actually crabs, I know crabs are good. Uh.
So there's this is my favorite example of symbiosis. I
think in the entire world. It is the boxer crab
a k a. Pomp pomp crabs. You know, pompom crabs.
They are little guys about the size of a quarter,

(38:52):
very colorful, very beautiful, like they have these like orange
and red stripes and little white speckles. Are beautiful, and
they got little pom pomps on their arms, like little
little pomp pomp boxing gloves. I would say those are
two different things, by the way, Like if I see
a cheerleader with like pom poms, I'm not like, oh,
they're about to punch someone. These ones are though. It's

(39:14):
like combination cheerleader boxer, which actually sounds kind of good,
like combination cheerleader boxer. The pop the pomp pomps on
this creature that you have sent us about a thousand
images of. I enjoy the eyes that look like the
devil's eyes. I are less hot for me and where

(39:36):
I'm at in my life. They do seem like a boy.
They do seem like an enemy that you would fight
on a beach in like a Japanese role playing game. Yeah,
like a little cutie that I want a stuffed animal for.
It looks at some point it was nicer and then
it got corrupted. He's just a frustrated little guy who

(39:57):
wants to stay away from his little venomous boxing gloves. So, uh,
those little boxing gloves are actually seeing enemies. Get out.
Yeah no, but I don't want to leave. It's my house.
But yeah it is. These are little sea an enemies
that it has put on a hook on each of

(40:18):
its little front legs. Uh, and they wave them around
to scare off predators. And because they're seeing enemies, they
actually do pack a toxic punch that they can use
to you know, like yeah, jab people there, you go.
Yeah for good for him, I know like this. They

(40:40):
are indifferent to this happening, so it is interesting because
they don't. It's not totally bad for them because the
boxer crabs actually will also use the seen enemies to
like scoop up food and eat it. But then as
the boxer crab is eating, little pieces of food fall
back down onto the CNN and so the enemy is

(41:01):
still get to eat like the crumbs from the crab.
It also is one of the only known instances of
an unrelated species of animal helping another species with a
sexual reproduction because a boxer creb wile usually find one
enemy be like this is about good and right, and
then rips it in half and then wears each half

(41:24):
on its hands. And then now it's to sen enemies. Okay,
you're going to is such a good word to use.
It helps I ripping it in half. I thought you
were going to say that he like has like well
like ham puppets. He's like, now, kids, let me rub
these two together, smoosh them together. Uh no, no, no,

(41:46):
he violently rips it in half. But then enemy is okay, yeah,
like a good helper. Yeah yeah, so um so now
now there's two c N enemies, so it actually in
effect creates larger c N enemy populations that does live
on its arms though, So that's it's just I think
that's fun and cool. That's amazing. Yeah, it's really good.

(42:09):
It's fun for us, and I bet for the crab.
I imagine the ripping part is not then enemy's favorite,
but it is comfort. There's but yeah, it might prefer
slightly different technique. I'm not really sure. But you know,
if someone ripped me in half and then I turned
into two griffins, I don't think i'd be like thanks.

(42:30):
That was fun and cool. It's like I to think
about this a lot more than you would think I do.
But like if I did, I mean, obviously the ripping
in half isn't a great thing, but if I did
have a second me, it's like my first instinct is like, great,
you can do this work for me, and then but
then I'm sure I would also say back to me like, well, no,

(42:50):
you do it so well unless that work is punching
other fish. Think that that's going to help in this situation.
Katie's that's too that's two button mouths to feed just
the one job, but one income. Yeah, boss is gonna
expect your boss is gonna expect you to double your
productivity to like, that's just not the way that that

(43:12):
the that the that the economy works. Unfortunately, these boss
crabs and their capitalism. But the good news is that
there are scientific diagrams of these little crabs, and there's
no like they have tried, I'm sure, but there's literally
no way for a scientist to draw a diagram of
a boxing crab without making it look like a cheer routine,

(43:36):
uh choreography. It really does look like bring it on,
Deep Sea edition. They can't not do it. It's so good.
So my other favorite inhabitants of the coral reef are
the cleaner rass fish, not cleaner ass. Cleaner rass, yeah,

(43:57):
they go see Dr Clemens for the clean eating um bleaching. Yes, yes,
uh so the cleaner rass are fish auto body detailing services.
So they are vibrant little fish species who live in
coral reef communities and run car washes for fish. They
clean parasites off of fish's skin, and the fish literally

(44:21):
line up to get cleaned by these little cleaner rasses.
It's so good and it actually creates this tiny economy
because some cleaner rass like to cheat their clients by
like instead of just like picking off parasites, like actually
eating a little there, they have this like protective mucous

(44:42):
membrane which is apparently delicious, uh, and so they like
to bite little pieces off. But if they do that,
they get a bad review and that fish will boycott them.
And so uh, not only will they get boycott by
the client fish, but other cleaner rass if they see
you like skimming a little bit of mucus off the top,
they will also punish you because they don't want to

(45:03):
lose clients. What the cleaner rass fish has like a
four point five star rating, everyone knows like and they
will chomp. Is that like? Is for like? Does it
have to be five stars for a restaurant to not like?
Like if your uber passenger rating drops to like a

(45:23):
four point five, the drivers know that there was at
least one time where you were a real dirt bag
and that that nobody's gonna risk picking you up. Then
one time you nibbled on them. You don't want to
nibble on your I am. It doesn't seem like that
should be worth a one star review, but apparently it is.

(45:45):
Um Also, cleaner rass will try to make it up
to their clients if they've been piste off by giving
them a little free massage, like, hey, you know, sorry
about that, sorry about nibbling on you, but you know
what about this behind the shoulders behind I don't think
fish have shoulders behind the fins. I've only had the

(46:06):
fish pedicure. I forget what the fish the doctor fish
name that they have at certain places where they come
and they eat the dead skin off your feet that
I have and it is surprisingly delightful, really tickles like
the dickens. But at the end of it, I looked
at my beautiful exfoliated feet and said, I would do

(46:26):
I would I would do this again. I would give
these fish five stars that have a griffin. Were you
worried that they might develop a taste for you, come
find you? It was. It was at a like a
spa in Japan, and I was worried about how much
giggling I was doing, and part of the other patrons,
who definitely were not giggling, I thought they knew something

(46:47):
I did not, um but I think everybody was just
much more hestoic and not quite as tickling, said an
impolite to the fish. They were used to it. Yes, yeah,
the fish are professionals, though they understand. Yeah, so yeah,
no that's I. That is also I would like to
try that sometime. But my closest thing was that I

(47:08):
used to have a little fish that was carnivorous, so
I would feed it blood worms in the fish tank,
and it would always just kind of nibble my fingertips
as well, just to see if there's something something to
that as well. That's bold and brave of you. I
don't know that I would ever put my hand in
water with something that was carnivorous fish. But then again,

(47:28):
human foot skin is meat, so I guess I have
done that kind of standard. I've established, right, But it's
meat we don't need, so why not share it with
the fish? Yeah? Well, I think we've just about done
it in terms of coral But we do have to
play a little game. It's called Guests Who Squawking? It's

(47:48):
the Mr Animal Sound game. Every week I play a
Mry Animal sound and you the listener, and hey, heck,
even you, the guests, can guess, Hey, who's squawking? Now?
I say squawking, but it's it's not always birds. Sometimes
it's birds, not always birds, It could be any animal
in the world. And you try to guess who's squawking
with nothing but a cryptic hint that I leave for you.

(48:10):
So last week's hint was the sharks and the Jets
are about to have a showdown, but they really ought
to calm down. I have a guess, Yeah, I guess

(48:31):
who's squawking? I mean, based off of the description of
the sharks of the jets, is it something like a
knife bill like a knife like a knife bill burn?
Isn't that a thing? Or my fingers. Something ghosts. Fine,
guess there's spoonbill. Oh, that was what I was thinking of,
a fork bill. No, that's what I was thinking, runs
able spoonbill bird. Uh No, it's not that any other guy,

(48:54):
is it? Is it a mammalian? Yes? Is it a
Is it a a? Is it a sea otter? Close?
So close? A river otter? Yes? You got it? Yeah,
nice one. These are rival gangs of giant river otters
encountering each other and fighting over territory. That is an

(49:17):
amazing gift. I've actually you know what's funny is I
don't think anyone's actually tried to like narrow it down
by asking me, like, is it a mammal? But I'm
happy to do it. Well, there's lots of animals that
squeak in that way. Uh. And they they they have
a delightful otter. I just moved to d C. And
we just went to the smiths Odian Zoo, which has
a whole otter exhibit, and they I'll be danged if

(49:40):
they these guys aren't a little cuties. They are. These
ones are big cuties though. Well that's less. That doesn't
do it for me. They're five and a half feet
or one point seven meters of cute. That's a big hotter.
It's a it's a giant river otter. It's found in

(50:00):
South America. And you know, as you gets from their
name their giant river otters. So uh, they are big, fierce,
and carnivorous. And while they eat mostly fish, they have
also been known to take down a kimon. Oh they suck.
I could Google image search these things river otters. No,

(50:24):
I still I still mess with these guys. They got big,
they got big bushimi eyes. But I'm still I love this.
I'm still look at them. WHOA Well, okay, now there's
some pictures of these guys that is actually not Some
of these are like somebody drew a hotter they saw
in a nightmare. Yeah, terrible looks like an even worse

(50:47):
animal trying to crawl out of the face of this animal.
They're kind of a fuss noodle, I will admit, but
this is an auto that's seen some quack. A bit
of a fussy noodle. But they have own natural predators
aside from humans, because you know, look at them, but
they are quite competitive and territorial with other groups of

(51:07):
giant otters. They have throat patches that look like roor
shart tests that actually act as name tags to identify
themselves to their friends. So within a group of otters,
they're quite friendly, they have extended family units, they hang out,
They're pretty gentle with each other. There's not a lot
of internal conflict. But if there's a territorial conflict between

(51:29):
two big groups of otters who are fighting over I
don't know, a piece of river, uh, it can get
pretty hairy. There have been otter murders where it's like
they find a dead river otter, it's like, who could
have done this? And turns out the culprit was coming
from inside the river the whole time. They need a
better pr person because the top Google image results searches

(51:51):
for these things are are grow testus. They need better
s e O these animals do, I'm google ing? I
also think they should push it just be called river
otters and whatever the other ones are should be called
really tiny river otters normalize. Yeah. Yeah, the one where
he's like standing and staring kind of like it is.

(52:16):
It does trigger a little bit of that like fear
I have in me of being eaten by a giant otter. Yeah,
this very new fear, I fear. Well, Uh, let's move
on to this week's Mr Animal sound. The hint is,
who's this knocking? Well, don't let it raise your hackles.

(52:40):
Ah ah, that's the sound. Can you guys guess who's squawking?
I was ready for it to be a dog? What
the sorry? That is a that's um, that's that's that's

(53:08):
a swallow? Oh is that cockatial? It's something with a
fan that raises up right, you're talking about that. It's
something we think. I don't know. I don't know, I
have no idea it is it mammalian? Um? Well, here's

(53:31):
the thing you'll find out on next week's episode of
Creature Feature. Yeah, that's right. It's it's a big cliffhanger.
Who would have funk it? Oh, that's the animal. It's
a cliffhanger. Uh, it's actually um, it's actually me. I
knew it. So yes, if you think you know who

(53:53):
is squawking, you came write to me at Creature Feature Product,
Gmail dot com. I'm also on Twitter Creature feet pod.
That's not eighteen that has something very different. Uh, guys,
thank you so much for coming on the show. I
really appreciate it. If I if people even need to ask,
where can people find you? The easiest way is to

(54:16):
go to mclroy dot family. It's a webpage that has
all our shows on it and like links to everything.
That's the easiest way. Yeah, we don't know that much
about animals. I'm just saying, if you heard us on
this and you're like, more animal guys, these guys are
really smart about animals. I don't think anyone would come
away from this episode. Okay that is fair, yes, Travis,

(54:39):
but yes, definitely if you have not listened to The
ether c Adventure Zone, I highly recommend it if you
enjoy marine life. I mean no, it's not a textbook
of animal knowledge, but it is highly entertaining and I
think it definitely stays true to the biology of the ocean.

(55:00):
So yeah, thank you guys so much for joining me today.
Thank you, thank you so much for listening. If you're
enjoying the show and you want to leave a rating
or review, I will be eternally grateful. Beyond the universe,
beyond time itself. Ah, thanks so much the Space Classics
for their super awesome song Exo Lumina Creature features of

(55:22):
production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts like the
one you just heard, Visit the I Heart Radio ap
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to your favorite shows? I don't judge you. See you
next Wednesday.