Creature Classic: Broods, Birds, and Mushroom Butts!

One of my favorite episodes! You can be a citizen scientist in your own backyard! Broods! Birds! And mushroom butts! I'm joined by podcaster and voice actress Janet Varney.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host
of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,
and today on the show you Yes, you can be
a citizen scientist this spring and summer. There are things
to look out for in your own backyards. I am
talking about special events that are current, that are happening

(00:29):
now or in a few weeks, that you can keep
alert to in your backyard. Well, if you live in
North America, in certain locations, but in general, you can
be a citizen scientist. That means observing animals and then
making reports to various research institutions, to things like eye naturalists,

(00:50):
and this actually really helps researchers. So we are going
to be talking about new birds. We're gonna be talking
about incredible broods. We are going to talk about something
that was discovered by citizen scientists that sounds like it
came out of the horror game Slash TV show The
Last of Us Discover This and more as we answered

(01:14):
the age old question what is it a good time
for your butt to be a fun guy? Joining me
today is voice actress, host of the JV Club and
a ton of other podcasts. Janet Varney welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Thank you so much. I wasn't sure if I was
allowed to laugh when you said can you be a
fun guy and win? And so last giggle.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Laughter is not allowed, not permitted.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
This is a very serious, very serious I'm b reaching
our contract.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, it's a very serious science show. No laughter, no fun,
everything's really dry. No, I'm so excited to have you suggested.
I really liked your topic suggestion, which is talking about
like the kinds of animals that you can find sort
of in your own city, in your own backyard. And

(02:04):
I really love this concept, and I love the way
in which that people like you and me can engage
in science. Because I am a science communicator. I'm not
a scientist. I don't do research, but do I take
photos of animals and then send them to a naturalist
or to researchers who I know are looking for these photos.

(02:27):
I don't send them randomly to people who don't know
what's going on, but yes I do, and it's really fun,
it's really exciting. Like once I snapped a photo of
alligator lizards mating, so I sent it to Greg Pauley.
He's a herpetologist at the the LA Natural History Museum,

(02:48):
and you know, it's it's amazing. It's it's so cool
to be able to interact with scientists and with science
and research this way, and it's actually really helpful.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, that's totally awesome. We have in our I live
right near Griffith Park in Los Angeles, and there's like
a ton of you know, kind of public facing stuff
that you can do to get involved in. One of
the things that we do, not just in Griffith Park
but in my own neighborhood is Raptor Watch, is you know,
keeping your eyes on certain raptors' nests and reporting back.

(03:21):
I'm gone a lot, so I haven't been able to
sign up because the last thing I want to do
is like not show up for something that wonderful and
important raptor do. I don't want to fail raptor duty.
But but you're right, the feeling of knowing that like
you're engaging with your environment and you're even helping us
better understand our environment and respect it and all that
kind of stuff is like the coolest.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Well, so I have exciting news for you because this
is something that is actually in your neck of the woods.
This is a a new bird just dropped in southern California.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
They rapped a bird.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
They they released a new bird. Kind of literally, I'll
ex plane. So there is a small bird called Swinhoe's
White Eye. It is a little little guy. It's like
smaller than a playing card. It's got this cute little
tan belly, this chartreuse head, wings and butt, and then
this beautiful, vague, glamorous white eyeliner. So it does it

(04:21):
is these are cute little guys and they are killing
it with that eyeliner.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
They really are. This is this is a this is
a hot look. I love it. The use I did
not really, you know, from just thinking about scale, from
looking at the photo initially, I did not realize they
were that tiny? Are they? They look sort of goldfinchy,
but not is there?

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Is that that? Maybe that's what I because we have
with tons of goldfinches, so hopefully I won't mistake, uh,
this little guy for a goldfinch and then not not
appreciate how special it is.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
I mean it's that I think that greeny tinge and
that white around the eye is yeah, yeah, yeah, I've
tried before using white eyeliner. I did it, did not
work for me.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Oh me, neither.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
I think it's like, I mean, you know, I think
both of our complexions are you know, easily washed out
by say like hey, it's like I'm already very pale.
If I add white eye learner to it, it doesn't work.
But if our skin was shartruths like this, yeah, I
think it would work.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
I've never wanted your true skin more or at all, No,
I do, so, Yeah, I love this little critter.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
They're very, very pretty, and if you are a bird
watcher or backyard birder, or just general bird appreciator in
southern California, you may spot them, especially in a tree
that has flowers or berries. They often like to sip
nectar or eat berries. Even like hummingbird feeders, if you

(05:54):
have them, you might catch one of them sort of.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
That was my next question.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Okay, And they don't have that really long beak that
the hummingbird has, so they can't get quite as deep,
but they still do have a bit of a beak,
and it's a little curb so they can get in
there a little bit, you can cut. It's interesting because
you can see these nectivorous birds like this one that
sip nectar, and you can see the beak it's like

(06:17):
kind of long, a little bit pointy, but many stages
away from the hummingbird. But you can see that like
maybe evolutionary path of this bird could have been maybe
similar to a hummingbird's ancestor, with a shorter beak but
still zipping nectar.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Sure, and just because I don't want anyone to worry
that you have an expert by any means in any
way on the show, I'm happy to represent the most
rudimentary of enthusiasts. But so a bird like this, like
with a hummingbird, they don't don't they have like a
little tongue that was also involved in the beak. But

(06:55):
this with this little character, is he or she uh
sip with like is a tongue in play or is
it mostly beak action?

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Okay, yes, yes, that tongue is going to help them sip.
It's not not quite as long in fancy as the hummingbird,
but that narrow beak a little bit curved and then
a little bit of tongue action is going to help
them draw up nectar into their beak. Cool and so,
but they're unlike hummingbirds, they can also they can diversify,
so they can eat berries, which you know, can open

(07:26):
and close their mouth pretty easily and snap up a berry.
And so yeah, if you have like a lot of
like flowering lush plants in your area, you may spot
one of these. But here's the catch. They are not
really supposed to be in southern California. They are from
East and Southeast Asia, completely across the world. So Janet,

(07:50):
I want you to guess how they might have gotten
to southern California.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well, I'm gonna say, not, Migraine, I'm gonna say brought
over to ce commercially, perhaps like seeing that there was
some incentive there. It's harder for me to imagine somehow
these ending up on like a cargo ship just randomly

(08:17):
and like building a nest and hanging out there. So
I guess that's my That will be my guess. That
is absolutely correct, all right, these little guys.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
The thought that it's not exactly known, but the leading
theory is that they escaped from the pet trade in
Orange County, California. And so we actually have another bird,
the Chevron parakeep, that also escaped the pet trade, and
you can see it all over southern California, but this

(08:47):
one is much more recent, So this came around two
thousand and six, and they've been in southern California since
and six. But recently they're population seems to have a
big boom. There's been many more reported sightings. It seems
like they are finding their niche and reproducing quite a bit.

(09:12):
So there's always like, so they are an invasive species,
but invasive species can range in terms of how bad
they are right in terms of like how much they
impact local flora fauna, how they impact the plants, how
they impact other birds, other animals, because like they can

(09:33):
either directly, you know, safe overfeed on berries or overfeed
on plants and then cause damage to native plants, or
they can out compete native birds or other or insects
or something. So there are a lot of factors in
terms of how they could have an effect, but so
far we don't actually know if they are having a

(09:55):
negative effect on the local native plants and animals.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
So they are like a kind of the opposite end
of the known spectrum at this time than say the
feral cat in Australia, which I was just reading about
and feeling very bad for the Bilby's.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, the Bilby's.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
So cute in the side, but boy, oh boy, are
they cute.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
I judge an animal in terms of their cuteness mostly
by the nose. The snoop is a very important factor
in the cuteness.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I would say, ears and snoop, and this one has
both very adorable ears, very durable snoop.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
They did, you see the whole thing of like they
do the Bilby the Easter Bilby instead of the Easter
Bunny because no. Yeah, so rabbits are also invasive, also
bad for Bilby's and other animals, not because of predation,
but because they are competing with them, right and so,
and they're bad for the local vegetation and so there

(10:56):
they are, just as they're at war with feral cats,
there at war with feral rabbits and so sort of
as a branding thing of like, hey, we don't actually
want rabbits here, they did the whole Like Easter Bilby get.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
A giant build, so doing that here.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
I love that you can get a chocolate Easter Bilby.
I don't know how expensive the shipping would be from Australia,
but you know, probably a lot worth it. But yeah,
so so so far these little little white eyed birds, uh,
it is unknown what impact they have and in fact

(11:33):
it's unknown how big their population is. There's been more
reports of sightings. It seems like their population is on
the rise, but researchers need more data. So that is
something that people can do from their backyards right or
on your walk or whatever. If you see one of
these birds and you can look up pictures of the

(11:55):
swin Hoe white eye bird, and if you see one
of these you can snap a photo or make a
report of where you see it. You can go through
like a naturalist is the main one. And so yeah,
I mean there's an article called on the Brink of
Explosion identifying the source and potential spread of introduced Zosterops

(12:19):
white eyes in North America. Also an article in The
LAist by Jacob Margolis that has more information. But yeah, generally,
just if you're if you're a bird enthusiast and you
see one of these guys and you take a photo
or observed just like where it is, where you saw it,
you can you can actually add a data point to

(12:42):
the research that is going on about the spread of
these little guys.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
There it is I'm looking at it right now. Okay,
so zaster ops that's that's it sounds like a disease spelling.
I know it's actually there is.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
His name is the full scientific name is Zosterops simplex,
which which make it makes it sound like a mouth.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Sounds like yeah it really does. Yeah, it really does.
Zoster Ops white eyes. I have a really bad cases
astro ops white eyes. No.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
I know, it's like, oh, I don't want to be
around you. I don't want to catch your Zosterop white eyes.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's interesting too, because when you talk about, yeah, when
you were talking about the population boom, but also that
it if that's relative to getting more engagement from the public.
You know, my first thought was like, gosh, how do
you I guess you can look at overall the kind
of data that you're getting in from the public to
see if there's an increase in general and not just

(13:33):
about these birds in particular, because that seems like such
a challenge to go yeah, or people just seeing the more, Like,
what are all the reasons that people are a seeing
the more and b reporting the more and is it
truly a population boomer is or something else going on
that we have to isolate and identify.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
You are thinking exactly like a biologist, like a scientist,
because that is that is one of the issues with
things like this, because uh, if you get a like
if you encourage more observations, you're gonna get more observations,
and then that might make it look like there's a
big population boom, like people are more aware of it,

(14:07):
so they're making observations. But there are ways to like
kind of overcome that, right because you maybe you start
the clock at the point at which it's like, well,
we made had this awareness at this point, so then
we look at the growth from that point onwards. You
can also do things like, okay, we made this made
you know, all of sort of California or something south

(14:30):
southern California reads this newspaper or whatever and has this
this thing, and then so they're all making these observations
and then seeing if you see like a change right
like in the observations, like maybe they start more in
southern California. Do they move you know, to the north,
do they move to the east? You know, So it's
you're absolutely right, it's really important to separate out like, oh,

(14:53):
we just have a bunch of new observations. Well is
that because people are noticing it more sort of like
how you know, we may suddenly get a bunch of
diagnoses for say, like a disease that we've now become
more aware of, and it's like, oh, everyone has this now.
It's like, well, it's because now we're aware of it.
Same thing with this bird. I'm so mean to this bird.

(15:14):
I keep like comparing it to a disease.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
I mean, that's just what's going to happen if you're
an invasive species. It's not these guys fault. But I
will say side note. When I tucked this into Duc
dug o and I looked up Zostrops white I you
know how it gives you like a suggestion of what
you might be looking for. It was very eager to
fill in for me. Zostrops white eyes for sale.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Oh wow, really.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Seems telling, right, I mean, it thinks that that must
be what I came onto a search engine for. Yeah,
so I find that very interesting.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
This is one of the problems with the exotic pet trade.
I am you know, I am a big fan of
people keeping pets, and I understand that a lot of
pets that we can pep are not going to be
native to the region in which we live, and that's
often not a problem, but it can often be a problem,
especially for a pet that can easily escape, right, Like

(16:12):
there are types of like snakes, birds, you know, rodents
like these are pets that can fairly easily escape, and
especially animals that have a high fecundity can reproduce fairly quickly.
You know, that can be a big problem. So yeah,
I mean, right now, it doesn't seem like maybe they're
a problem, but it's also we don't there just hasn't

(16:33):
been a lot of research, so there could be problems
that this adorable little bird causes. I mean, it's not
so c it's so cute. It's not its fault, right, Like,
they are adorable. They did they didn't choose to be
sold in the pet trade, and you know, they're just
trying to make it work. But yeah, when we I mean,
I think it's funny because like when we think of
invasive species, we think of something menacing and you know,

(16:54):
like the pythons in Florida, But really it's it can
be an adorable little bunny rabbit in Australia or an
adorable bird. But yeah, so far we don't know, because,
like I think, the Chevron parakeets are relatively benign in
southern California. Yeah, so hopefully this bird will be benign

(17:17):
and it'll just be another cute little bird to see.
But for instance, in Hawaii, a similar species, a bird
not exactly this one, but a similar species, has reapedtavoc
there because it out competes from the native birds, and
you know, it can cause these these native birds to

(17:39):
become endangered, and it's you know, can be really bad.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Well, the smaller the ecosystem and the more like you know,
island bound or whatever, I'm sure the higher the chances
are that something kind of severe could happen. I mean,
it's interesting. I'm like wondering if these guys build their nests,
you know, in the same kind of safe areas that
like a goldfinch would, because you also wonder, like could

(18:06):
a predatory species adapt to I mean, listen, I'm not
excited about you know, apex predators eating these little birds
eggs or eating these little birds, but I also wonder,
because there are so many predators in southern California, if
you know, there could be some sort of like accidental
population control that happens just as those predatory species adapt

(18:28):
to having the availability of these little qts that I
don't want anyone to eat, but you know, got to
keep the system going over, I mean, I keep it say.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Uh. The general rule is that the more similar the
species behavior is to the other native species, then yeah,
the predators are just gonna be like another thing on
the menu. Great if it has special adaptations, which I don't.
I don't know of any special adaptations that this bird
has that would be particularly effective against snakes and other
predators in southern California, So I think I think it

(19:02):
will just be on the menu with the other birds,
but maybe not. You know. It's another thing is that
it is in an environment that is very different from
its original home in East and Southeast Asia, where it's
very very lush. This sort of kind of semi tropical
area California, Southern California is a desert. But the reason

(19:23):
it's able to thrive here is because human beings don't
necessarily want to live without flowers and cool plants, and
so we plant things that are not native that have
lush flowering fruits and or lush flowers and fruits and berries,
and so then these birds will join us in the

(19:45):
suburbs and urban areas and basically exploit the setup that
we have created. This like fake lushness in what is
a desert.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, well, I feel like we've I mean, I'm I
feel good yet nervous about these these little Zostrup simplexes.
I'm gonna keep my eyes peeled. I got to tell you,
I'm looking at the picture right underneath, very different kind
of a look from this other winged creature. I'm trying

(20:20):
to I mean, it's beautiful and a little un suddenly
little creepy. We are, well, maybe a little creepy.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
We're going to take a quick break and then we
are going to talk about this mystery winged creature that
has Janet unsure how to feel.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Perfect.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
All right, so we are back, and Janet, you have
spotted our next little member of the mystery crew of
creatures that people should keep an eye out for. And
what are you looking at here? How would you describe
this interesting little guy?

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Okay, where do I start? First of all, I don't know,
I mean, again, not a biologists, uh, not a zoologist,
not a I mean, I just so I'm really trying
to get creative here. I'm gonna say, the first thing
that catches your eye about this, aside from this creature's eyes,
which i'll talk about in just a second, is this

(21:17):
really beautiful wing that is mostly transparent, but it has
it's almost like I mean, it's almost like a piece
like the top part of you know, if you look,
I think about the a quarter of a butterfly wing.
If you're sort of thinking about looking straight on at
a butterfly, you imagine the upper left or the upper
right piece of that. Imagine that that has more transparency

(21:40):
like you would maybe imagine from a fly's wing or something.
But it's very but it is very pretty. So there's
some white and kind of I mean is there's some
kind of gold or yellow coloration, looks like there's a
little orange in there, lots of black, kind of like
a black lining that creates these little segments of the uh,
the wing. And then I want what I want you
to do is then I want you to imagine that

(22:01):
it's on a tiny catfish. Because it's a body, I
can't see most of its body. I feel like I'm
only looking at its sort of head and right past
its head. But there's something sort of fish like about it.
And then I want you to go ahead and just
stick to bright large red orbs on for eyes, and
then just throw on some little crab claws for uh,

(22:27):
not claws, but the but the legs, crab legs, not
their claws, but some little crab legs for it's it's uh,
it's so so that it can land, get around and
scuttle around on stuff. That's my that's my best attempt
to describe this.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
How did I do you have painted a beautiful brain picture? Uh?
This is the way I would describe it is like
if you took a giant fly and mashed it together
with like a grasshopper and then made it look surprised
at all.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, definitely grasshop er. I guess I could have gone
that route. I decided to go with a more shocking fish.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Well, it's it is. It is chunky though, it's shiny
and chunky, so it does have I can totally see
sort of that crustaceany look to it, which is yeah,
keep that in mind for later. Stick a little pin
on that way. So this is a cicada.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
A oh, it's just as after all that it's a cicada.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
It is a cicada. It's you probably heard it, but
have you like seen one up close like this?

Speaker 2 (23:32):
I mean I thought I had. I mean, I feel
like I've seen cicadas, but I guess I haven't seen
or do they all have like bright red bead eyes
all of them?

Speaker 1 (23:40):
There are different species, but I.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Think the ones in Okay. I mean, I've had one
land on me, much to my chagrin, in Arizona, and
for sure in Arizona. You know, the thing you're going
to see more than the cicadas is the little crispy
shells that they leave when they shed their skin, which
are very fun too petchy off of yeah, to kind
of crunch into a dust after you pick them up

(24:04):
off of off of a nice piece of bark. But
I did not. I mean, I guess if you made
me guess I should have come to cicada, especially when
you gave me the grasshopper hint.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Well, I think, out of context, it's surprising to see cicadas.
I always like, I hear their sound and I'm like,
I don't know, I'm thinking of some kind of like
grasshopper like thing or something.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
And they have a just an evil tiny robot. Yeah,
a little old tiny robot a metallic sound.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
It does make a very metallic sound, shocking. But the
reason I bring up cicadas is that if you live
in North America, in the Midwest and southeast United States,
you are in for a treat that rivals the total
eclipse that just happened, because there is going to be

(24:54):
a double brewed emergence this spring, so it is gonna
be a very special event. So cicadas do emerge every year,
right like we have this yearly emergence of cicadas. Their

(25:14):
life cycle is essentially, the females will lay eggs into trees.
They cut a little slice into the tree, lay their
eggs there. The eggs hatch into nymphs, the little tiny babies.
They drop down to the ground, burrow under the ground.
They can go as far as around two feet under
the ground, and then they stay there for at least
a year, and then all at once they all come out.

(25:38):
The males make this incredibly loud buzzing sound to attract
the females. There's a mad dash to get the mating done,
to lay the eggs, and then they all die in
a few weeks. So they but this is the thing
is life, I know, amazing, right, Like, so you spend
most of your time as a juvenile just hanging out underground,

(25:59):
sipping on the sap from tree roots. Uh, and then
you have like three to six weeks of total madness
of just trying to mate as fast as you can,
and then you drop dead.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Wow. Yeah, I mean listen, you get you get to
some underground, you get some above ground by being in
the trees, and you get to drive people crazy with
how incredibly loud you are. I mean, this is uh,
this is an insect that was linked as a possible
cause of I hate to use the term of Vana
syndrome because I think that I know that that's like

(26:34):
very hurtful to the Cuban people who are like, please
don't put the name of oursity into this thing that
you think is like a sonic weapon. But you know,
it's when I when I've listened to a great podcast
about it, actually, which I wish I could remember the
name of. It's really good about the that phenomena, And

(26:54):
when they first played like that, you know, the whole
sort of like misunderstanding which was kind of debunked as
like no, no, no, this isn't actually what this was
and it's not even what the people who had this
thought it was. It's just sort of an uh, it's
just an unfortunate like, it's just an unfortunate situation where

(27:14):
there happened to be a bunch of really loud cicadas.
Yeah that they were like, could this have anything to
do with why we're having these symptoms? And it was like, no,
it doesn't, and the symptoms still happened. But but the
first time I heard I was like, well that's cicadas. Yeah,
Like that sound that you know, feels like and it's
it's an assault to your ears is cicada.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
It's a complete sensory experience.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Bless them.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Well, how do we know that these cicadas aren't in
league with the Cuban government to undermine America? I have nothing?

Speaker 2 (27:47):
So double brood, So double brood? How did that happen?
How was there a double set coming?

Speaker 1 (27:53):
So this is really this is very interesting. So there
are some species that they go through a yearly life cycle.
There are others and those are called annual cicaia sick
annual cicadas. There are other cicadas who are periodical cicadas
and they have a life cycle that can range from
two years to seventeen years, and so that means that

(28:17):
when the nymphs pop out of the trees burrow underground,
they can spend up to seventeen years of their life
just waiting underground, sipping on tree root juices, and then
at the seventeen year mark, all of them all at
once emerge and do the crazy mating just orgy fest

(28:38):
for a few weeks. And the double brood is because
there is a brood, a thirteen year cyclical sorry, a
thirteen year periodical cicada brood, and a seventeen year periodical
cicada brood that have a ligned so they are emerging
at the same time. And this is something that hasn't

(29:01):
happened for two hundred years. So yeah, because it think
the just the synchronicity of it, The last time this
happened was two hundred years ago. The next time this happened,
it's gonna be another like two hundred years. It's gonna
be in like twenty twenty forty five, so it is.

(29:24):
It is really incredible. And so there are going to
be anywhere from like billions to potentially like a trillion
cicadas just like which seems made up. That does that
seems like too many that are going to emerge. And
so if you are near the cicada geddon which is

(29:46):
happening in you know, the in the Midwest and southeast
United States, you will start to notice holes popping out
of the ground. And then you're gonna notice just a
deafening cock cacophony of cicadas making an incredible sound. It
is not the end times, uh, you are not. You're

(30:09):
not about to be raptured. These are cicadas and they
will made over the course of a few weeks. Then
they'll die and yeah, you're gonna find all those like
crunchy little shells everywhere. It's uh, they look intimidating sometimes
because they're they're pretty big. They're you know, like bigger
than my thumb a little bit. But they are totally harmless.

(30:32):
They don't want to they don't want to mess with you.
They don't want to bite you. They're not like venomous.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
They don't want to have sex with you. Again, they
do not want to have sex with you.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Not with you, with uh, with anything vaguely cicada shaped yet. Uh,
So you can celebrate cicada getting by just observing all
the cicadas, by enjoying the train quality of like a
billion cicadas all screaming.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
I wonder if there's going to be more ear plug
purchases than in past years, really in those areas.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
I'd be interesting to track. My husband is an economist.
I'm going to suggest that to him as a research topic.
Like ear plugs and cicadas, is there a connection?

Speaker 2 (31:20):
It just doesn't seem possible. And this is the same
with crickets. I guess, you know, you just sort of
we all take for grant. I mean, I think I
did as a kid. I feel like I was a
fairly curious kid. But you also when you're younger, there
are some things that you just kind of take it
face value. And I guess I just I hadn't. I
didn't spend as much time as maybe I should have

(31:40):
thinking about the immense noise that comes from this tiny thing.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well it's so interesting because well, crickets are you know,
they can project for sure, but cicadas are particularly loud.
Cicadas are a little bit different, uh from stridulators like crickets,
so they do produce sound mechanically, not through like a voice,

(32:09):
but they actually have these Instead of just rubbing one
body part against another, they have these what are called timbles.
They are these like structures, these kind of membranous structures.
You know, like like.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
What's it called like symbol like symbols, Like symbols rhymes
with timbles.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
It does rhyme with timbles. But you know, like the
monkey that slaps the symbols together. These are timbles. So
they are connected to muscles. They vibrate them really rapidly. Vibration, yeah,
vibration that is very very rapid. And they also have
sort of a resonance chamber. Uh. And so like basically

(32:50):
you know how like you can like wiggle a metal
sheet and make a thunder sound.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
It's like that, but we have a.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Bunch of these little membranes. Uh. If you actually like,
if you like like this. This is what's interesting about
cicadas is they kind of have this like mechanical look.
If you sort of look at this timble structure, it
looks sort of like a bunch of layers of metal together.
But these are actually just like these sort of thin membranes.
They vibrate and then their bodies are designed as a

(33:18):
resonance chamber, and it's just it's such a rapid force
that they can actually produce from this this thing that's
relatively small, they can produce a sound that's nearly as
loud as like a chainsaw.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
I mean that is nuts and so okay. So the
little critters that are coming out of the ground that
they're male and female, that both in the broods that
are coming out, and the females you are, they're just
going somewhere too, I mean, are they just kind of
like in the trees also they are, and they're just
sort of like, yeah, they're looking whoever's yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Depends on the species. Some of them, like they're both
mobile and they're looking for each other and the males
making this sound and the female's going for it. But
in some species it's like the males stay put and
then the females have to come to them because the
males are lazy, and you know, it's like, well, you
have to come over here.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
They're like, baby, I'm exhausted, I'm a listen, I'm in
a band. If you want to hang out with me,
you got to come to my band's shows. I'm too busy.
I'm either rehearsing my band, or I'm performing with my band,
or I'm traveling with her band. Baby, you want to
be with me? Come to where the band is. You
know what I'm talking about, girl, exactly.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
We've all been through this, We've all had a cicada
in our life. But one interesting thing about these is
that you would think you'd wonder, like, well, why why
do they need seventeen or thirteen years underground? That seems excessive,
Like they don't need a lot of time to develop.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
A lot of about being a brooding teenager, pended you
never come out of your room. You're two, You dug
yourself two feet underground?

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, come on, they are a whold They are a
whole teenager by the time they emerge.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, and so no wonder they're so horny.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Oh man, I just it's so good. They don't have internet,
these cicadas, I know, can you imagine.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Well, some trees talks to trees, tree roots talk to
each other. I don't know, they can be they could
they could be. Yeah, a little internet there.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
But yeah, no, I mean the reason for the law,
I mean, it's still not exactly known why they do this,
but one the leading theory is that it is a
way to kind of like create an unpredictability about like
when they emerged. The reason that they all emerge at
once is fairly straightforward safety in numbers. If you are

(35:37):
a part of a huge brood, then it is just
statistically less likely you get eaten, even though a lot
of you are going to get eaten. But to emerge
at such a like weird like periodical thing of like
every thirteen years, every seventeen years. There are other birds
that do it at different intervals. That is potentially to

(35:59):
make difficult for predators, parasites and other like pathogens. The
three piece from adapting to you essentially like if they
adapt to your life cycle, like you emerge every year,
maybe a pathogen or a predator or a parasite will
learn like, hey, they come out every year, and so
I adapt in order to exploit this yearly emergence. But

(36:24):
if you're only coming out every thirteen years or seventeen years,
this is an irregularity and it's a long period of time.
So you may be going beyond the life cycle of
a lot of predators, of a lot of things that
would exploit you, and so it is harder for them
to specifically adapt strategies against you to either exploit you

(36:45):
as a parasite or as a predator. That doesn't mean
that predators don't eat these. They do. They eat them
a lot of them. But the point is, like having
like a special adaptation that makes you just a master
at a cicada munchie or cicada parasitizing or even like
a virus or a pathogen that could adapt to it,

(37:07):
like with this like weird interval, like it actually makes
them kind of a hard target to adapt to, except
for when they're underground, and there are actually things like
fungal infections and nematodes and things underground that can parasitize
them while they are in that period, which is really interesting.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
But you know, is that is that kind of the
only thing that can happen to you when you're down there,
or can like some sort of burrowing critter find you,
just stumble across you and go, hey, I'm a off hand.
I can't think of a single one hole. I don't
do they.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Oh absolutely yeah no, if they're they can be definitely
preyed upon underground by burrowing animals. It's just that it
is not as exploited a region as say the surface, right,
like burrowing animals. They have to put in work to
do their tunnels and so uh, you know the the
excavation uh is you can only excavate so much of

(38:04):
the ground, and so yeah, they will still be preyed upon,
they will still have issues underground, but it is safer
than the surface. And is speaking of eating these guys, uh,
they are edible for people. We can eat them and
if you I mean, I have never had a cicada,
but I have heard that they actually taste fairly good,

(38:26):
similar to like say, seafood, kind of like the kind
of look at crustaceane. Yeah, I don't know if that's true,
but because I have never tried it. But if you
live in one of these areas where there's gonna be
this mass emergence, check out like your local rest if
you're if you're adventurous, if this sounds interesting to you,

(38:48):
sometimes like local restaurants will start offering cicicada meals. So
like essentially collect they collect the cicadas, they prepare them,
cook them, and you can eat them.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Good source of rote like a cricket, like protein powder
and stuff.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah, yeah, there meat, they're bug meat, and I.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Think you'd have to charge that baby pretty black for
me to I need to get like, what I taste
is the taste of of just like burnt wood needs
to be sure, I mean a grasshopper.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
But Billy, what do you think you know what?

Speaker 2 (39:22):
I'm sure? I think it was like a chocolate cover grasshopper.
So it was one of those things where you're like, oh,
you have done everything you can to disguise and and
and sort of you know, nullify whatever bug eating experience
you're supposed to have, Like I definitely haven't had, Like, hey,
here's a you know, yeah, here's a baked here's a
baked grasshopper, not them a grasshopper.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Here's a here's a tart with grasshoppers all lined up
like pecans. Yeah, I exactly. I I'm not much of
an insectivore myself. I want to be, like, I think
it would be cool, And I wish I did not
have the sort of uh like revulsion towards eating insects

(40:04):
that I have, like because it's just like, well, now
there's this whole cuisine that I can't have because I
have this cultural notion that bugs. Bugs is gross. I'm
not supposed to eat them I've eaten ants the same
and I think I had a cricket once. But yeah, uh,
it's just it's hard for me to get past that,
and I wish I could, because hey, you know what,

(40:25):
like food's food and I don't. Yeah, I don't want
to be so picky, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Let me ask you this cool question, and please tell
me if we're getting off topic, because you know, I
could get six hours about almost any subject. But so
with something like that, how much of that revulsion? I'm
you don't have to know the answer to this, but
I'm interested if you have any speculation on it. How
much of something like that is? Like, because you know,
for example, when you when you find that you're afraid

(40:52):
of a certain type of creature, and and you know,
we you can have a conversation about that. Most people
sort of understand, like, well, you know, to have a
sort of genetic predisposition towards fearing spiders or towards fearing rats,
or towards fearing snakes, Like there's reasons for those predispositions
to exist, and some of them may be happening at
the genetic level, like at the cellular level. I wonder

(41:14):
I'm wondering with you know, the sort of revulsion around insects, Like,
had you and I been raised in a similar environment
except for our parents or our small community or our
city or our state or whatever embraced eating insects more,
do you think that, you know, we would just completely
be fine with it. Do you think that there would

(41:34):
be like some level of a version that we couldn't
put our finger on? Like, what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1 (41:38):
I've actually thought about this a lot. This is a
great question, Okay, I mean there are absolutely certain versions
we have that maybe innate in terms of like like
things that are like spider shaped, snake shaped. We have
sort of this like innate kind of like the reflex
which can be overridden by say learning about them or
culturally overridden people because I mean people keep snakes as pets,

(42:02):
people keep tarantulas as pets. These kinds of fears can
be overwritten by new information eating insects. It's hard to
say whether we have an innate revulsion to insects in
terms of a food source. My suspicion is that maybe
for some insects we might things that are pests, right

(42:25):
that like are things that we may see as like
unsanitary or pests like parasites. Yeah, perhaps there is a
grubs exactly exactly, and so we we do have an
evolutionary history of being insectivorous, and you know, even even

(42:47):
with parasites, right, like you pick mites and ticks and
stuff and fleas off of your friend and you eat it.
And so in terms of what we do know is
there are a lot of human cultures that exist today
where insect eating is not taboo, it is not considered gross,
and people enjoy eating insects, and so it is clearly

(43:12):
something that answer to your question of like, if we
had been raised different would we find would we find
insects gross to eat? No, I don't think so. I
think if we had been raised that we eat cicadas,
you know, every year in a big cicada eating festival,
I think we would not find that gross.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Just I agree with you. It's kind of a bummer,
like a bummer opportunity exactly.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
This is how I feel. It's like I want to
if I have children, I want to figure out a
way to not make them feel grossed out by the
concept of eating bugs, you know, just in case, like
you know, the meat industry collapses in the future and
you know what, like give them more options. But no,
But I mean it's also like bugs are kind of pretty,

(43:53):
and some of them sort of look like candy. I
don't know, Like if I look at a bug, I'm like,
that might be kind of fun to eat. But then
when I think about eating it with all the little
legs and the segments that I'm like, no, that seems bad.
I don't want to do that. But then part of
me is like, ah, but I'm curious. Yeah, it's hard
to override the the revulsion, but I want to. But yeah,

(44:16):
I think so there's two options. I think one is
that we could have an innate aversion to it, but
one that is overridden by culture, or we do not
have an innate aversion to it. And so depending on
your culture, you're even you're either taught in aversion to
insects or you are not taught it, and I suspect
it's the latter. I don't think we're born with an

(44:39):
aversion to eating insects, unless maybe there's a very specific
kind of like maybe we're we have an aversion to spiders.
That would make sense. Yeah, but eating any insect I
don't know because like something like what is really the
difference between say, like a shrimp and a cricket in
terms of like their looks, you know, when I was

(45:01):
This is a fun story, but like when I was
a and I think I've told it on the show
probably like a million times, so sorry for repeating myself.
But when I was a toddler, I would eat snails
like a baby, like baby toddler, like crawling around kind
of in the yard, I would pick up snails and
eat them. And somehow I as an adult, like I
am grossed out by snails. But then there's a lot

(45:25):
of like right now I'm living in Northern Italy, like
escargoes on the menu all the time, and a lot
of people like it, and it's like I can't eat
it now because I'm grossed out. But when I was
a baby, I would eat raw snails out of the garden.
So yeah, So I feel like I really do think
the the general aversion to all insects, I don't think

(45:48):
that that's innate. I think we learned that maybe there's
specific insects that may be you know, like spiders that
we have.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
So it just and I know we need to move on,
but just to put a button on this and to
bring it back around to to like your own backyard,
like one's own backyard. One of the things that's been
kind of running in the background as we've been talking
about this for me is like, when I think about
the insects I see in my own yard, if I
had to eat one of them, I'm going to take
snails off the menu, because I feel like I do

(46:19):
have tons of snails and I'm gonna take I'm gonna
take like grasshoppers, snails, and crickets off the menu because
I feel like I've already been given permission to eat those, right.
I have an idea. I know what I categorically would
one hundred percent avoid, and that include spiders and I
and I am afraid of spiders, but I've really come
a long way. I feel much more friendly with them now. Now.

(46:40):
When I am gardening and I pull up a rock
and there's a giant wolf spider that you know, hunkers
and sort of crops just trying not to be seen,
I'm like, hey, buddy, I'm not gonna hurt you. Like
that's okay, I'm sorry, I interrupted. Whereas like when I
was younger, I would have squealed and run away and
not been in the garden. And when I say younger,
I mean like twenty I mean like twenty five. I
don't mean like I've gotten much better about that. I've

(47:02):
gotten much better about ore weavers. Now I can stand
right next to them as they're building a web and
look at how crazy and scary they look, and really say, Wow,
you're working so hard on that. And the chances are
fair that this is gonna get broken before you're even done,
because someone's gonna walk into it or bird's gonna fly. So,
but I definitely don't want to eat them. I do
not want to eat spiders. I've decided that I would

(47:24):
like some roly pulleys. They can go ahead and roll
up into a perfect circle, perfect sphere will fry them
up and then they'll just be like these nice little
crunchy bits. Yeah, And that feels that feels doable to me.
Like that feels even more doable to me in some
cases than like, you know, even just thinking about like
crickets or snails like somehow, just because it becomes an
like a shape instead of a creature. Yes, if you

(47:47):
want to roll yourself up. We could turn them into dippin' dots,
like there are options. We have a cereal, we have
options for those tiny little roly pulleys, which are also
very cute. And I don't mind crawling on me. So
I feel kind of guilty saying that. But I'm and
what I know I won't Another thing I know I
won't eat is I forget what their actual name. They're
like Latin name or their scientific name is, but what
we call mustache bugs. I don't need to eat a

(48:09):
bug that it has all of those legs, like you
were saying, I mean, those are like it's like eating
a little brush. It's like eating I mean, I guess.
But when I when I was growing up, I thought
of a millipede and a centipede as being these.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Sort of house centipede is how I know them.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Okay, So I mean those things they are like I mean,
mustache bug makes a lot of sense because they have
the doushy look like a walking mustache, and the idea
of having to get those little hairy legs down is
just makes me on.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
A puke the mouthfeel on. That can't be good. The
interesting thing about the roly pully is those are terrestrial isopods.
They are actually, that's right.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
They are related to fossils.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yes, they are related to marine isopods. So they are
kind of like surf and turf. I guess, all in one,
all in one.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah, I feel guilty. I'm sorry, Little roly Poly. Sorry.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Potato bugs are always fine, It's fine. The great thing
about the pill bugs is you can just take them
with a glass of water. If you don't like the
mouthfeel of the crunching, you know, that's mean. I mean,
I feel like ants is kind of cheating. I've eaten ants.
It's they just taste like eating a little grain of pepper. Yeah,
they're very spicy, they're very spicy. But yeah, I don't

(49:24):
like grubs. Grubs isn't something I want to eat. That's
the scene in The Lion King has always grossed me out.
My gosh, you know, it's hard, Like, man, I don't
like anything that has like a pop to it, like
a like a gusher sort of thing. So spiders Spider's
definitely not. I don't you know, like anything where you

(49:50):
bite down on it and there's like a pop and
like a No, I don't want to do you got me? Yeah? No,
you're so right, Yes, that's not a situation I want.
So it's like, oh yeah, so what what isn't like that?
I don't know. I'm trying to think, oh man, because
I was gonna say butterfly, but I feel like their bodies. No,

(50:11):
that wouldn't be good. That would not be good. No,
I mean I honestly, like.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
What about like a little beetle, Oh, poor beetle, little beetle,
like if it's really small though, Yeah, I feel like
crunchy bugs are better than squishy.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah, bugs that pop in your mouth, like that's not
like I'm even dressed out like I used to have.
I don't like killing spiders once in a while. It's
like a kind of a necessity situation, especially like if
it's a venomous species. It's like, I'm sorry, you know, I.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Gotta I know, I'm not I'm okay killing and I
feel bad about I feel bad.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
About it, like I don't want to, but I will
do it. And then but the popping sound that they make,
like when I hate it, I feel it's like I
feel guilty and it's disgusting.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Put in your cicada at.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Ear plugs just like please scream in my ears and wear.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
A boot with a big, like a really chunky feel,
so that you're not your experiencing that.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
No, I hate it. It's like it's like popping is
z but it's it's but it's a spider. It's so right,
you know. It's so with any spider that I do
not have to like that is not venomous, I like
leave alone, or like like transfer outside or something. Jumping
spiders are adorable and I love them, and they can
stay in the house because they are really cute.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
I've never I don't know what jumping spider you're talking about,
but unfortunately, the only most recent jumping spider I had
discussed with anyone is like the Huntsman spider in Australia,
which sounds like the stuff of nightmares.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Oh no, so so jumping really big.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Yeah, but you're talking about small.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
This is yeah, this is a These are it's not
just these are not just spiders that jump. There's a
whole range of species of these, these spiders called spiders,
and they're tiny and they're cute. And I'm gonna find
a picture for you actually, because this is very important.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
I mean, does it look like just so your average
little house spider that's kind of just really small and
doing it, doing its own thing real.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Like they are. They're like, to me, they are actively cute.
Let me see if I can find like a good
representation of why I find them cute.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
I mean, they are not a good sign that you're
having to come through multiple photos.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Uh, I'm just saying, put one of your best eight
feet forward. It's uh, here we go. This one's this
is a good one because he's waving.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Oh yeah, give me a wave. I'll take the wave.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Here we go. I'm sorry, the.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Scope of my whole day feels like you've changed thinking
about that pop.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
It's a terrible thing.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, well that looks like a tarantula kind
of kind But they're those are I don't know if
I've seen. I mean, I guess if I haven't seen,
I'm night have to look. I mean, I show you.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Just a photo of what it looks like on something
like so you can see, yeah, what it looks like
without the close because this is like close up photography,
and then this is just what it looks like on
someone's hand.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
All right, let's have a look at this or fingers.
Oh yeah, I mean I'm sure I've seen those little guys. Yeah,
those little guys. Yeah, I don't have a problem with
those at all. Well I see those one except yeah
for sure. I mean, can they also like dangle down
on via a web or do they just jump? Like?
Do they do? You see them floating kind of like
like on your range top. I'll look and be like,

(53:34):
what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Most of you doing this aren't really so much gonna
do that. Like most of them just kind of walk around.
They do produce webs to some extent. Some of them
are a little bigger. I actually still find the bigger
ones cute, like.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Are they eating gnats and stuff? Like? Are they eating?

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Like, yeah, they kind of like down they're quite large.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
You look like a little fairy kind of it's like
a hairy, very fairy fairy.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
But he's got like a little mustache, which is actually
just it's petipalps, the little things on its face.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Extremely cute. Yeah, I mean again, you're kind of getting
into like something that yeah, sort of cartoonish looking exactly.
I like tarantula's and wolf spiders because I like their
little their fur, because fur it feels less threatening to
me than the hard what's that called precipice, crep escape.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
What is it the I love carapace is I think carapace?

Speaker 2 (54:32):
But I love I don't need to say it hard.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
I love that. Those are great words.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Even if I can just get some of the syllables
or any of the letters, they don't even have to
be at Yeah, I don't need that shiny. I mean, boy,
if ever there was a that a creature that looked venomous,
it's a black widow. I mean, all power to them again,
I will kill them. But it's very impressive. How macabre

(54:59):
and for bo do.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
They They're very much they they they as as the
kids say, they read the assignment, they.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Read the assignment.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
But the funny thing about the funny thing now I'm
doing the tangent, But the funny thing about the hairs.
Like liking the fuzzy spiders, which I agree with, I
think they're cute. A lot of these fuzzy spiders have
what are called irridicating hairs. They are actually irritating hairs
that are meant to like kind of come out like
a lot of tarantulas, like if you pet them, you
actually kind of get a rash because they are meant

(55:30):
to be protective parents are it's like, yeah, where it's like,
don't pet me, like, but some of them you can
actually pet because they're not they're not gonna hurt you.
But a lot of tarantulas you pet them and then
their hairs like kind of come off and then now
you've got a rash on your whoops.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
But thank you.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Yeah. Before before we take a break and move on
to the next section, Uh, if you want to join
sort of these cicada tracker community, you can go to
cicadasafari dot org uh and kind of submit the photos
or observations you make for cicada Gadden twenty twenty four.

(56:07):
I don't know if they're calling it cicada gaeddin. I'm
trying to make that happen. I think they even have
like an iPhone app. So, yeah, cicadasafari dot org and
you can you too, can join in on the cicada adventure.
So we are going to take a quick break and

(56:28):
when we come back, we're gonna have one more short
story about citizen sciencests discovering something really weird. All right, right,
so we are back. Citizen science does not just occur
in the US. It is an international phenomenon, and so

(56:48):
in uh In India, in the Western Ghats, there was
a group of herpetology frog enthusiasts just kind of going
around making observations, taking photos, and they found a frog
with a mushroom growing out of it's But.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Wow, I've I don't know what I would have needed
to do to get ready for this. I know I
didn't do it, and I'm not ready for it. And
I'm looking at a picture and I think I know
which thing was a reference to the last of us.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
It's this. It's definitely this. So to be a little
more honest, it's coming out of its rear flank. I
don't know if you can call that it's but I'm
gonna I'm gonna say it. But and it's like a
literal tiny I'm not talking about a fungal infection like oh,
you know athletes. But it's a literal mushroom, little mushroom

(57:48):
like a little a white stem and a white little cap.
It's a tiny mushroom growing out of this poor, cute,
little innocent frog. Yeah yeah, so, uh, this frog is
a h It is called I forgot its name. I
wrote it down. The frog is a rouse golden black

(58:10):
rows golden backed frog. Actually the full name is like
rouse intermediate golden backed frog, which is a mouthful. I'm
just gonna call it a little cutie. Uh. So it's
it is alive, and so it's not like a situation
where it's dead and then the mushroom's growing out of
its dead body. That wouldn't be as interesting. No, it's

(58:31):
alive and it has this tiny, perfect little mushroom growing
out of its rump. These hobbyists, these these herpetology hobbyists
like snapped a picture. They didn't capture the frog because
they were being respectful. They didn't want to like, you know,
mess with the environment at all. They but they they

(58:53):
took a couple of pictures and they published their picture
in the Journal of Reptiles and Amphibians and then frog
that picture. Even more nature enthusiasts, like my cologists and
like mushroom hobbyists like looked at this mushroom like trying
to identify, will what is the mushroom? You know, what
the frog is? What's the mushroom? The most likely candidate

(59:14):
that they came up with is the bonnet mushroom, which
is a mycena fungus that typically lives on rotting wood
and not it is not known to like be a
parasite of frogs. So this is really interesting.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Wow, so what do we what do we do with this?

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Right? Like, is this like the start of sort of
a last of Us frog apocalypse? I mean probably not, right,
Like it could just be a fluke somehow. There there's
this thing where sometimes a it's actually in I don't
know if you'd call it my isis when it comes
to fungus, but when it comes to say like like

(59:56):
larvae that accidentally become parasites, it's called my asis where
it's like say, you get like a fly larvae in
your in your gut, and it's like living there. It's
not an obligate parasite. It doesn't need to be a parasite.
But then it has found its way inside a yeah,
and it's making the best out of a bad situation.
That is what I would guess is going on with

(01:00:19):
this this mushroom, like a spore somehow got under this
frog's skin or inside of this frog. Yeah, then it
managed to sprout its way out of the frog. But yeah,
it's still it's like extreme like the other option could
be that there is a type of fungal infection. There's
that fungus. It is actually the fungus that the Last

(01:00:42):
of Us game and a TV show is based on.
It's called ophio cordisceps. And that does actually yeah, that
does actually infect insects like ants, grasshopper, spiders and then
grows out of like it kills them, but then it
like grows sprouts out of their body.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
One of the all time great reality based yes, like
versions of Armageddon.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Yeah, no, I I I appre I very much appreciate
the the sort of I mean, so I did a
whole You can probably look back in the show's history.
We did an episode on the Last of Us like
mostly I really love it. There was one like one
line where it was like they in the show saying like, oh,
there's no treatment for fungus, Like we've got antibiotics, but

(01:01:27):
we don't have anything.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Wait what that's not true.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
It's not true at all. We have anti fungals.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
In any way. Have you heard of athletes? We heard, yes,
have you heard of yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
And even for like brain like fungus, like there are
there are fungi you know that can infect the brain.
We have treatments for that too, and it's very books.
Well yeah, but you know, you have to have some
kind of dramatic thing going on, I guess. Anyways, So
this poor frog, it's got a little mushroom gering on it.

(01:01:58):
But actually we don't it's a cute frog.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
It's a cute mushroom. They're both cute.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Maybe they're working together. We don't know. If this frog
is upset with this mushroom. Maybe it doesn't even notice it.
Maybe they're friends. Who knows. Because like, frogs can be
infected with fungus, but again, similar to athlete's foot, it's
not like a whole mushroom, like a whole ass mushroom
growing out of the ass of the frog. That's not

(01:02:24):
like generally how fungal infections work in frogs. It's like
a fungal infection and a human, you know, you might
see like a film or something on their skin, but
it's not going to be like, hey, I'm a mushroom,
I'm growing out of this frog. So if you find
if you live in Indian and you live in the

(01:02:46):
western guts, and you find a frog with a mushroom
growing out of its butt, do take a photo. I mean,
if you live anywhere and you find a mushroom.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Growing out of a yeah frog, fair fair enough.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Or anywhere out of the frog, take a photo, you know,
because that might be interesting. Uh, who knows, Maybe this
is a one time deal, Maybe it's a new trend,
maybe it's a new sort of frog fashion. We'll only
know if we all join together to try to find
more mushroom frogs.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
I mean, it's very interesting. It's interesting in the sense that,
of course, like I mean, you were of course you're
talking about the idea of you know, something being more
incidentally parasitic than being you know, intentionally. So, but when
I see something like this, like what does jump into
my mind is the sort of more I mean, I
guess it's everything that's that spreads seeds through. But like

(01:03:37):
thinking about you know, my dog picking up you know,
briers or picking up you know, little thistles and stuff
like that is intentionally going into his hair so that
it can spread to a location that it couldn't get
to otherwise. So, yeah, it's funny because like obviously this
isn't necessarily that, but it does feel like you could,
in that way imagine somehow the mushroom is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Like I'd like to try, you know what I mean,
I just yeah, dispersal is very important for a lot
of sort of immobile organisms, and so in a way,
like it's that's what ophiod cordyceps is doing with the insects.
So one could imagine that this could adapt in order
to use the frogs and in a lot of cases

(01:04:19):
like an adaptation maybe sort of, you know, it is
like a random thing that can happen, either a random
mutation or something that happens right like maybe originally with
the opiod cordyceps, like a curious ant eats it, you know,
they eat these spores and then this starts to happen,
and then the the fungus adapts more and more in

(01:04:41):
order to exploit this situation. So you know, like even
if this is an accident, right, it could the course
of evolution could make it less and less of an accident.
Where this smush is like, actually, I've got a pretty
sweet deal here growing out of this frog, I got
I got free transportation.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Yeah, are you kidding me? Absolutely? And as far as
that poor little aunt, listen, we like curiosity. Don't feel
like you can't be curious, but maybe just don't eat
something in the wild. You can be curious and learn.
You don't have to learn by eating a fungus. You're
not sure about.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Spores, and you just say no. The DARE program for
ants did not work. H Nancy rag Ant was not
to not to write.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
On this issue.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
So before we go, we do got to play a
little game. It is called the Guess who squawk and
Mystery Animal Sound game. Every week I play a mystery
animal sound and you the listener, and you the guests,
try to guess who is making that sound. The hint
last week was this, this bearded fellow is the bell
of the ball.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
WHOA?

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
All right? So Janet, whoa?

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
What happened at the end.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
It's an same animal, new sound, same animal.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
That was It dropped a sick beat at the end. Yeah, okay,
this bearded beauty is the bearded beauty.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
This bearded beard fellow is the bearded fellow. Who's to
say he's not beautiful? Though?

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Okay, so it's so bearded. The thing that is confusing
for me is like I'm realizing that I don't know
if we use the word beard across like a bunch
of difference fauna or if it because I feel like
when I think of beard, I feel like, okay, well,
I know that the people talk about bearded lizards. I

(01:06:50):
know people talk about like, you know, bearded primates, people
talk about, you know, bearded dogs. Have I heard a
beard describe?

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Who's is there a bird out there that's being described
as being bearded? I don't know so, but probably, I mean,
I guess probably, But beard is funny to imagine with
something with a beak, so I guess. So the problem
was is that my first inclination when I heard that
sound was to go monkey, because I because I heard bearded,

(01:07:22):
and immediately it was like, oh, okay, well you know
that's a chitterer chirp that could maybe be a bird
and maybe be a monkey. Again as a total a
person who has no idea about anything, um, then you
hit me with the sounds at the end, and now
I feel even more confused. That feels like again could
not know less about animals. The something about the rhythmic

(01:07:44):
nature of that almost felt more like well, it felt
like it was coming from the chest or throat somehow,
more like the sort of pulse of like right, like
it's this kind of explanation of sound more than like
up in the front of the mouth or the beak.
And I don't know if I again I'm basing this
absolutely nothing, but that kind of freaked me out because

(01:08:04):
it was so consistent for so long that felt like
maybe more of a bird sound. So I guess what
I'm trying to say is I'm completely and totally stumped,
and it may be none of the things I've mentioned
and be a totally different creature and I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
You for someone who keeps saying like, oh, I don't
know anything about animals, you your ability to zero in
on the right questions is very impressive because you are right,
this is a bird, okay, and it is coming from
the throat, and you're right that this is a bearded bird.
This is the bearded bell bird.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
So a bell of the ball. There was even more
information packed into that clue than I realized.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Yes, the clues, it's all, mister policeman. I've left all
the clues. I don't remember them, but yeah, this is
a bird found in South America. It is found in Venezuela, Trinidad, Tobago,
and northern Brazil. It lives in humid forests. They are forgiven.

(01:09:03):
There you are. Oh my goodness, you really have a beard.
They really have a beard.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
You look like you hung it or you hung it
around your neck.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
It is these are It kind of listens like feathers,
but these are not feathers. These are actually wattles. So
these are fleshy projections. Wow, coming off of their chin.
They are Otherwise you know, they're they're nice looking. They
have sort of like a brown head, a white body,
and black wings. But it's that beard that is so

(01:09:32):
unique about them.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
I have to say, it's clearly wattles. I mean, to me,
it doesn't look like feathers. You really can see that.
It has the consistency of like almost like rubber. Like Yes,
if you're tapped against them, they would be like they
why did they need that for?

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
That is to track the ladies to be as sexy
as possible. They're not. You don't find that, you don't
find that handsome.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
I love it. I'm just so amazed because it's just
one of those times where you know, look, I know
we're not supposed to anthropomorphize, and I know that you know,
we can't relate everything to humanity, but that being said,
it's just so funny that you know, that's a real
aesthetic choice, like like a like a strap and dude

(01:10:17):
with like a big, great lumberjack beard, you know. I
mean that's a look, and that's a look that you know,
some people call like the Portland, Oregon look. You know,
also like being bald and having a big beard. Like
I have several friends who sort of are rocking that
look and they wear it well, and I like them
better with beards. I like my friends who have those beards.
I like them better with them. And so it's amazing

(01:10:39):
to me. Again, no shade to this bird unless it
wants it, which it does because it's a venezuela. So
it's a lot of greed. So some shade as a gift.
It's just very funny that it's like, oh, I get it. Yeah,
facial hair looks. Yeah, it's a good look for some people.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
You mentioned that it's like not good to anthropomorphize, but
I would say it's okay some situations, especially when it
comes to birds aesthetic choice, because a lot of these
choices are complete, they seem to be pretty subjective and
with no real like practical purpose, right, Like does this
model actually do anything. Well, not necessarily. It could just

(01:11:18):
be that the females are like that looks good. I
like that as is the call. The call is to
attract the females over and it's very very loud. It's
one of the loudest bird calls.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
And that is in order to get females to come
over from great distances. And then once they get there,
he will show off his amazing bird, his amazing beard,
his plumage and hope that she is impressed. H And
so yeah, I mean it kind of like to kind
of like people.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
And I have to say too, I mean, as part
of that, like you hear that. And I was thinking
about that in terms of some of the little froggies
in Hawaii, for example, like part of being living inside
kind of a jungle environment. It seems like everybody's trying
to be louder than everybody else. So it must make
everyone so loud, Yeah, because there are so many sounds
and calls happening in a really lush landscape like that

(01:12:11):
that no wonder everybody has to play their music a
little bit louder than everybody else, you know it Also, yes, exactly,
this led me to it also offered me up. There's
lots of wonderful pictures of the bearded bell bird, but
it also offered me up the three the three wattle
bell birds. I don't know if you've seen this. I mean,
that is an amazing, like sort of Fu Manchu mustache. Yes,
and it is very special. Indeed, so I have two

(01:12:34):
new favorite birds there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Yeah, the the billbirds are quite ostentatious. I highly encourage
you to explore them all. But yeah, their their facial
business is incredible, uh and in diverse and yeah, absolutely
they are competing for yes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
No, this maating moment of like she's sitting nearby going yes, yes,
more please see.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Uh yeah, it's it's amazing. Uh. It is very cute
and kind of pathetic the way males go to such
a lenks you across the females. No kidding, so sorry,
So onto the next mister animal sound. The hint is this, Well,
I've already given you a hint this episode, so no

(01:13:22):
more hint. All right, you got any guesses?

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
I mean, based on the hint about the hint, I
guess I would say it sounds like it could be
a and God, that's an irritating sound between that and
the sound of drones in the park when you're just like.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
Wanting to have a nice walk you don't want to hear.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
And the sound of a mosquito in your ear. I
mean those are there's metallic, Yeah, those metallic multi level
metallic person distant buzzes. Unfortunately to me, if you wanted
to make a horror movie about people going crazy, not
unlike you know, the sort of like great you know,
great and good rabid zombie, you know, sort of like, oh,

(01:14:14):
this is like Raby's it makes it wants to spread
by blah blah blah. If there's some incentive to having
a sound that makes people want to hurt each other.
I mean, I just feel like my temper is so
much shortened by being in that noise for a length
of time.

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
I wish you had written bird Box, because I think
you could have made it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
There.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
You go, Yeah, you are absolutely correct, so which means
I'm going to bleep out just your correct answer so
other people can guess. But the people do know, they
will know that you are correct, and so you can
you have won the prize, which is a thumbs up.

(01:14:54):
I'm a painful pleaser. Just give me that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Just give me that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
A A plus with a little wonderful. Well, it's scratch
and sifts, you know, like a little Oh, you can
better bundle of grapes or an orange or something. Man,
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
Well, Janet, thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
We're people, Katie. They can find me, I guess mostly
on Instagram. I'm decent on Instagram. Low Please don't DM me.
Find me at my website Janetbarney dot com. I never
check my dms, but on Instagram, at the JV Club,
and you can listen to my podcast on Maximum Fund
the JV Club. You can also listen to my podcast
about Avatar the Last Airbender and the Legend of Korra

(01:15:34):
that I do for Nickelodeon Paramount, which is called Braving
the Elements. And if for some reason you're a true
crime buff in addition to being a fan of all
things natural and wonderful, you can also find me on
Truth and Justice, which is a wrongful convictions podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Yeah, thanks for having me. This was I would do
this every day. This is so fun. I love your podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
If Janet's voice sounds familiar and you're an Avatar the
Last Airbender fan, she is the voice of Cora uh
and I'm you've done other voices as well. It's I
I have this thing that happens when, like, you know,
I watched a lot of cartoons because I refuse to
grow up, and if I hear a voice actor or

(01:16:22):
actress in I'm like, how do I know you?

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Where do I know you from? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Because your voice is I do the same?

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
Yeah, where it's like your voice is a little different
from the character your voice because you're you're an actress,
you do an actual character. Then it's like, man, where
do I know you from?

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
Yeah? That's well. I always like to say Korra is
just kind of stays at a more consistent, less cartoonish level,
which is sort of ironic that like the cartoon I'm
best known for is just the most kind of cool
version of my voice, and then I'm more of a
cartoon than she is. So that's kind of how that
panned out.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
But it's like, but yeah, the NPR voice, But that's right, fantasy, Yes,
that's right. Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
And if you are enjoying the podcast and you leave
a review, I read all of them, every single one.
I print them out and I just kind of stack
them up and then you know, I you know, like

(01:17:19):
in the movies where they put a bunch of money
and then roll around on it. For some reason, I
do that with review its podcast reviews wonderful and thank
you so much for the Space Cossics for There's super
awesome song XO. Lumina Creature features a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit
the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts, or Hey, guess what where
have you listened to your favorite shows? I don't I

(01:17:42):
don't judge it. I'm not your mother. I can't tell
you what to do. You got to make these decisions
for yourself. Fly, baby birds, You fly on your own.
Now it's time. See you next Wednesday.