March 8, 2023 • 57 mins
From insect repellants, to treating dangerous bites, we'll find out that animals can look at a tree and see a pharmacy. Discover this and more as we answer the age-old question: would you call an elephant midwife a more of a mega-wife?
Guest: Joelle Monique
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host
of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,
and today on the show, animals who like to play doctor.
These critters have degrees in pharmacology they earned at Pile
of Twigs and Leaves University. Paging doctor Yogi Bear, We've
(00:28):
got a serious case of the itchies and bities. From
insect repellents to treating dangerous bites. We'll find out that
animals can look at a tree and see a pharmacy.
Discover this and more as we answer the angel question
would you call an elephant midwife more of a mega wife?
Joining me today is friend of the podcast and producer
(00:51):
of many lovely iHeartRadio shows, including the podcast Fake Doctors,
Real Friends. Joel Monique. Welcome, Hey Katie, Thanks for having
me back on such a dope topic. I'm assuming no
birds are into doctoring. Well, there's like a few a
(01:11):
few birds. Okay, Once again, I will face my fears
with you. Joel does not like birds. It is something
that somehow we're still friends even though Joel doesn't like birds.
I don't even know how we've respect birds I just
fear them right as well. Yeah, I want to hunt
(01:32):
them down. I don't, you know, have a vendetta against
the birds. I just would prefer they stay on their
side of the street. Okay, they get the sky, I'll
stay on the ground. It's no problem. What about penguins.
Penguins are more like plushies, and therefore they can stay
I see they don't. They don't kind of need to
(01:52):
learn to fly qualify as birds to you. Yes, So
if a bird is I guess, if a bird is
round enough and on the ground enough, that's okay with you.
If it's cheeks can apple, it can hang around, okay, adorable, adorable.
Love a penguin, all of them, the little ones, the
tall ones, that tuxedoed ones. All penguins are welcome here,
(02:16):
the business, casual ones, all of them, all of them.
Turkeys need to learn to fly, though, I need them
to get the hell out of here. Terrified turkeys are
a little more dinosaur like. I get that. They are
sort of you know, the head. The head is a
little bit you know, gnarled. Yeah, yeah, Well, we aren't
(02:42):
focusing on birds today. We're just talking about all the
animals who use natural medicine. I feel like we think
as humans that we've kind of quartered the market on medicine,
that we're the only ones who use it. But in fact,
animals have been using medicine probably far longer than humans
ever have, and they find everything out there in nature.
(03:08):
So Joe, well, have you ever seen a bear scratching
its back against a tree? Sure? Have I have too.
I actually saw one in person. Ones from far away,
Otherwise I would have peepeed and poo pooed my pants.
It was close up. I have a healthy fear of bears, yeah,
(03:32):
very reasonable, but this one was quite far away. It
was from I think I was staying at a lodge
or something in the Sequoias and there was a window
you could look out, and I saw in the distance
a bear scratching its back against a tree, and it
was so cute. It's adorable. They look like they're dancing,
(03:52):
just shaking their groove thing. I know, they look so
into it. It It looks so like they are just having
the time of their life. They look adorable. I know
they could rip my face off and eat it like
a big lasagna, But I still think they're really cute,
especially when they do the whole back scratchies against the tree.
(04:13):
They just they seem like they are an utter bliss
when they do that topier moment for bears. So what
do you think that they are trying to do when
they are scratching their back against a tree, Katie? Are
they not trying to scratch an itch? They probably are.
Here's the thing is that it's probably a number of things.
Like it's probably itchy for the itchies. They may also
(04:38):
be marking territory. It's probably like a multi functional thing, right,
Like they get the itchies out, and then also other
bears know that Gerald was here and he had an
itchy butt. But there maybe yet another reason. Recently, as
(04:58):
reported by The New York Times, researchers have found that
brown and black bears seem particularly attracted to using specific
species of conifer trees, and furthermore, they are attracted to
the scent of beach tar in experimental settings, and the
researchers suspect that they may be selecting specific trees for
(05:22):
a reason. Zoo pharmacognosy, which is a big word which
basically means animals that select specific plants or substances and
either eat them or apply them topically to treat themselves
for a variety of conditions, such as parasite infestation or
(05:43):
the itchies. Oh my gosh, trees are so helpful. The
trees are good in general. Hot take. I like trees.
They're good for Yes, they keep the birds away from me. Yes,
there you go up off the floor and away from
(06:03):
where I walk. And that's beautiful of them. Pretty Yeah,
keeps them birds arboreal. So you may have observed zoo
farm a cognosy yourself. Every time your cat or your
dog eats grass and throws up, maybe a case of
(06:23):
your cat or dog medicating itself. So often, but not always,
grass eating is a way for your cat or your
dog to help with a tommy egg or infection of
an intestinal parasite, And as you may know, it causes
them to throw up or sometimes have diarrhea, which can
(06:43):
help them get rid of the parasite or stomach bug
whatever it is causing them distress. Although sometimes they just
eat grass because they like how it tastes. So my
dog is definitely the latter, because we will just like
mow along on. I'm like, what are you doing, kid, Like,
get out of here? Yeah, you know, it's gonna make
(07:04):
you sick, and she's like, well, what if I said
a little bit more of this grass? Yeah, I'm sure
it'll be fine. Yeah. Like my dog, I think, sometimes
likes to nibble grass. It's very specific grass. She likes
to eat though, that like this thicker. I don't really
know the species of grass much, but it's like the
thicker grass and she maybe it's called crabgrass. I'm not
(07:25):
really sure, but she likes that. And she's also a
dog who likes a good vegetable, so she'll eat bell
peppers um with a gusto. So I think in her case,
sometimes grass eating is more of a culinary exploration than
trying to get rid of a tummy ache. But for
other cats and dogs, sometimes they will eat it because
(07:45):
they've got a tummy ache. That's good to know. And
then you can kind of keep an eye like, oh
he's not feeling good. Yeah, you track of it a
little bit. It's a good thing. Yeah, it's not something
to panic over, like you said, Like if your cat
or dog regularly eats grass and they've otherwise got a
clean bill of health from the vet, like they probably
(08:06):
just like the flavor. It's sort of like I love
ginger and ginger beer, and I also love it for
tummy aches. It's great, It's perfect for tummy aches and
delicious just for no reason. Yeah exactly, I'll drink it
just because it's good, but I'll also drink it when
I've got a tummy ache. Fortunately, it doesn't make me
(08:26):
yack up a bunch of grass onto the carpet. Awful. Yeah,
it's me big farm us. So they can get pills
that don't make them sick. So yeah, So it is
a relatively common thing found in animals that they will
eat stuff or apply stuff to make themselves feel better.
(08:47):
And so back to the bears. Researchers found that bears
seem to select specific trees, specific conifers, and they also
found that beech tar and turpentines. Turpentine is distilled tree resin.
You wouldn't really find it much in nature, but it
like the the tree resin in this distilled form. But
(09:10):
still it is a strong smell that would be similar
to the kinds of like tree resin that you would
find in the trees. And so in experimental settings, both
of these compounds seem to attract bears, and more importantly,
they seem to repel ticks. So ticks are a menace
to furry society. And it's hard when you're a big bear,
(09:35):
even though you got those big arms with big old claws,
still to get get all those ticks off you, especially
ones that are like right right on your back. You know,
it's hard. No, oh, right in the middle where if
you get a bad itch you would need a tree
to scratch. Yeah, got pull ticks out, plus takes care
of you so much disease. So that's exactly exactly. Parasites
(09:56):
are not just a nuisance. They can be quite dangerous,
and so far, while the evidence is circumstantial, it seems
plausible that the bears are in addition to getting that
nice scratch on which gosh it just if you, I mean,
like I imagine being a bear and getting that nice
itchy tree would just be the best feeling. But then
(10:17):
also they are getting potentially some tree sap as insect
repellent when they are scratching themselves on the bark, and
so they are getting this like it's like a backscratcher
plus zeet combination. Well might start selling that immediately, Oh
my god, yeah, I'd buy it in the summer. It's high.
(10:40):
I'm trying to move around too much. Love a two
and one appliance brilliant, just pocket sized conifer. Give me
a little pocket tree to scratch my back on. Amazing. Also,
bears have been observed mixing Osha roots and their own
saliva into a kind of sticky paste that they rub
all over their bodies, which may double as an insect
(11:02):
repellent and bite soothing substance. Bears are foraging for moisturizers.
That is crazy. They belong on TikTok. They really get
bears on TikTok right now. Yeah, I know. I'm so
intimidated by like skincare routines online where it's just there's
(11:22):
like a five thousand serums that you put on in
a specific order, you know, masks you're you're supposed to.
I mean like it's like your face is an old
timey photograph that you're trying to treat in dark room,
and it's intimidating. Once I got to the droppery, so
(11:43):
I was like, this is so much. I was so
I got one that has like retina and collagen in it,
and I was like, okay, it's like firm and like
refine perfect. But then I was scared of it, like
it was a chemical only use like pipe pets and
chemistry labs. Do I touch it? Is it safe? It's
very weird. It's so weird. It is very strange. I
(12:07):
have to admit I do use like do like have
my own very small in comparison skincare routine, but it is.
I try to keep it simple. Otherwise it's just it's madness.
It's timax out at five steps, five skincare routine steps,
and that's that's yeah. Yeah, It's like I wash my
(12:30):
face maybe some kind of exfoliation, and then moisturize, and
then that's it. I can't. I can't think about it anymore.
Otherwise it's all I'm gonna be doing all day. But
that seems like what you need on a very day
to day basis. And then I'll have like mass and
like overnight moisturizers because I don't know. That's what older
ladies did before me, when they hit their thirties, they
(12:52):
were like, okay, now a night cream, that's it. That's
that's what we're doing. Pet. Maybe just like I could
fill an immersion tank up with some sort of viscous
goo that gets me youthful, and I sleep in that
like a Disney villain, right right, Don't ask what the
(13:17):
goo is made out of. Certainly not the blood of virgins.
Don't worry about no yeah nood extract. But yeah, So,
bears have a very skimple, very simple skincare routine definitely
belongs on TikTok, though, I'd watch the heck out of
a bear beauty influencer just chewing on rocks and slathering
(13:41):
its own saliva all over its face. Just adorable. Can
you how to put on lashes? A little bear? I'm ready?
Can you imagine a Paddington Uh influencer just like Paddington
on TikTok? That that's that would get me in. That
would finally get me into TikTok like I've resisted so far.
But if Paddington was on TikTok talking about his little
(14:03):
his little beauty routines, that'd be it. I'd be done.
His overall collection alone would be enough to draw me in.
Let's go team off of the century. So this habit
of bears potentially to be using these substances as bug
repellent is not unprecedented at all in the Animal Kingdom.
(14:25):
There are lots of other examples, For instance, Capuccian monkeys.
These are New World monkeys found in Central and South America,
and they have a habit of rubbing smelly, acidic plants
all over their bodies as insect repellent. They've been found
to rub citrus, clematis, flower, and pepper plants over their
(14:47):
fur to deter parasites, which makes them smell lovely. I
was gonna say so now we're also making perfumes. Yeah,
very lovely again foraged in the forests with their bare hands.
Talk about work uh hashtag Amish life. I would absolutely,
(15:09):
I absolutely watch these berries get down on the TikTok.
I also feel like I have enough of those ingredients
that I could be making my own at home, which
is nice. Yeah yeah, around and pepper root. Yeah. So
these these uh capuchin monkeys also in captivity, they will
use plants that are not available to them in the
(15:31):
wild but still effective at the Dudley Zoo in England.
Captive capuchin monkeys use spring onions given to them by
caretakers and rub them all over themselves. They just go
they love these these spring onions. They'll grab them and
apparently immediately start rubbing themselves down, rubbing under their little armpits, uh,
(15:56):
rubbing Like, no, this is what you think. It's like
l or some sense that they have that's heightened that
we don't where they're like, oh this is yeah for me. Yeah.
I think it's a strong smell and it may even
be sort of a like they may be able to
smell that it's kind of acidic, and it's that acidic
smell that's like, oh this this goes right on my body.
(16:19):
And parents will rub their young with it as well,
so it just kind of like rub down the babies
that are too young to kind of know how to
do it themselves. And so it's my my suspicion is
that it is a combination of instinct and learning because
they are social animals and so they probably instinctively know
(16:41):
like which smells kind of right to them, but there
may be some aspect of social learning in them because
their their parents will rub them down as well. Okay,
I love that onions is protection, yeah, which is do
it too human? Which is monkeys? I keep I always
(17:02):
get garlic and onions mixed up, so I feel like
I would probably try to ward off a vampire with onions,
and then it's like, oh wow, it's great. Now my
human meal comes with some onions. Mixing garlics and onion
is the best way to start any dish. I mean honestly,
it really. This is the magic to make your kitchen
(17:23):
smell divine garlic. So yeah, yeah, that's like goesn't anything.
Chocolate cake? Yeah yeah, Lessen, you can highlight your chocolate
cake with it. Just roast a little garlic, sprinkle it
on top. I promise you was a surprise. You'd be like, bam,
that's really flavorful. So another animal who likes to rub
(17:47):
stuff on themselves are the white nose coates, who are
adorable mammals who live in Mexico, Central and South America
and cowates sort of they look like a long game
a raccoon, Like he took a raccoon and just kind
of stretched it out a little bit. Oh. They've got
longer snouts, longer tails, and they they're very cute. They
(18:11):
like to scratch the bark of certain plants and then
rub themselves or others in the sap. So they might
even take some of the sap and rub like a
comrade up with this sap, and the SAP has been
found to have insect repellent properties. Nice. I like that
they're like, listen, mosquitoes. I know we're out here in
(18:33):
the jungle all animals, but what we won't be doing
is devouring me as somebody who was allergic to mosquitoes
as a child. I get it, man. I wish that
there was this team up between you and the cowads
and they were just like rub and sap on little
child Joel and mean like it's all right, we're your
magical animal friends and we're here to help you. I
(18:55):
used to rub popsicles on them because they hurt, so
they'd be like icy. But then now I'm covered in
like sticky sugar. So the mosquitoes game and ate me somewhere.
What are you doing for baby Joel? It was like seven,
It was really a problem. You really did. You really
did need the Disney princess treatment of having some magical
(19:19):
kawatee and bear friends. I have been so great. I
would have been less lonely and less bitten off, unfortunately
for you. The last animal we're going to talk about
is birds in relation to animals who rub anti insect
or pellent on them. The ironic twist here is that
(19:41):
the birds use insects to get rid of insects sons. Yeah,
so tons of bird species do something called anting, where
they rub ants all over their feathers, which causes the
ants to release formic acid, which is a defense mechanism.
And then this formic acid is not strong enough to
(20:01):
hurt the birds, but it cuts their feathers and acts
as a lice killer. This is horrific and ingenious. So
for these poor ants who are like, no, I know
what I'll do. Let me just ooze out this thing
that usually stops things from killing me. And they're like,
it's not working, it's just making them stronger, and then
they're crushed to death. There they don't exist anymore. For
(20:24):
the birds, like what A find it just if I
roll around as some ants Now I don't have lice.
I mean for human me, that's a really that's a
difficult trade off. Yeah, I hate swarms of things and
both of these creatures. No, I can't. I can't do it.
I want either, Please can't do it? WHOA No, See
(20:44):
this is the difference between you and me. When you
were seven, you're getting attacked by mosquitos and trendys popsicles.
When I was seven, I was eating ants and trying
to attack birds. Well, not attack you, lie, A thorn bear.
What was it. I don't know. I mean maybe a
little bit. I tried to catch birds. I would say,
(21:04):
like I think I saw some wily coyote cartoons and
I set up like a box with a stick and
put some bird seed under it, and I thought this
will work. It didn't. It didn't work at all, But
ants were easier to just maybe. Okay. When I was seven,
I probably wasn't eating ants at that point. I think
that was more of a five year old me activity
(21:27):
because I was curious, and they taste, you know, kind
of peppery. They're not bad. That's your scientist adventurer spirit. Yeah,
And they've become quite idelic to see across the culinary world.
So clearly there's something right. It's just going on exactly.
I haven't discovered it yet. So before we start asking
(21:52):
animals to be our doctors handing out m d's, I
think it is important to point out that while some animals,
like primates, may learn how to use medicine by observing
their elders or through cause and effect. For many animals,
it is most likely instinctive. Just as animals instinctively seek
out food and find food appetizing that fulfills their nutritive needs,
(22:16):
medical substances may simply taste good or be attractive to them,
and it may be instinctive, but still what's really interesting
is that animals seem to not just passively eat beneficial
plants all the time, like as part of their diet,
but seem to respond dynamically to having certain symptoms or
(22:37):
injuries and will use the substance to treat themselves, which
I think that is what's so interesting to me is
like it kind of makes sense like to you know,
if you eat a certain plants like oh, this plant
also has anti inflammatory properties and it's like great. But
if you eat something like you have something happen to you,
like when a dog or cat has a tummy ache
(22:59):
and then they eat grass. That's so interesting to me
that there is there is this instinctive ability to treat
a current ailment. Yes, it definitely comes across as like thinking,
like reaching for something very specific as opposed to like
this is my natural instincts, like oh, tell me hurts
(23:20):
eat grass which I'm sure is what bare thought processes
as opposed to be like oh my, this grass will
cure me, help that parasite pass. It's just very I
think it's kind of cool to think about, like what
instinctually humans know to do well, thirsty drink water. We're
not like, well, this will help my cell homeostasis of
(23:41):
my cells work good when I drink this water. We're
just like king this water now, exactly exactly. Although I
don't know, maybe some people think in terms of their
cellular homeostasis. I don't know. It's not me, it's not
I can tell you I have never considered that as
recent for a gospel of homeostasis. I just had myself
(24:04):
a big gulp of homeostasis. So before I continue, I
want to do a shout out to Eraldo Medeiros Costaneto,
who is a professor at the University Estete Fierra de
Santana of Resilt, who wrote an excellent and comprehensive article
called zoo farm a cognosi the self medication behavior of
(24:26):
Animals from which I got a ton of info. So
that is a great article if you want to learn more.
So some zoo farm a cognozi behaviors may be hard
to catch in lab environments, but have been observed by
people living near these animals for centuries. So a lot
of times like things will be written in folklore or
(24:47):
passed down kind of in oral histories. And it's really
important to pay attention to these things because while it's
true that like it is good to have scientific method
and try to establish things in these experimental settings, these
observations by a lot of cultures are really really significant
(25:08):
when it comes to understanding animal behavior, because it is
it can be really hard to be able to witness
animal behavior being in the right place at the right
time for a wild animal. And also when you take
a wild animal and say, put it in a laboratory setting,
they won't have the same behaviors. So I think it
is so important to take seriously these accounts of cultures
(25:32):
over many centuries of the animals that they have observed.
I don't watch animals that closely, like like I'm like,
you know, maybe my dog, but like you like my
roommate almost, I'm like, hey, good, you know ed f water, Like, oh,
she's just a little authargic today. But I'm trying to
imagine like being out in the wild and being like,
(25:53):
oh that animals medicating itself. Really, people are so smart
people are That is an incredible skill. I think the
people who are like I can sit patiently and wait
for animals to respond and react and teach me something
about the environment. Yeah, seriously. And also, like throughout history,
I think there's been a lot of evidence of humans
(26:14):
like observing animal behavior, especially when it comes to what
they eat and medicate with, and then copying that and
discovering things that are helpful in human medicine. So there
is this example of species of tegu. So these are
large lizards found in central South America and Panama. So
(26:36):
Tagus are black, brown, and white lizards. They typically grow
a little over three feet long about a meter. The
largest species, the black and white tigu, grows a little
over four feet long or one point three meters. So
they're hefty, you know that. Big lizards. That's a big lizard. Yeah.
(26:57):
They are burrowing lizards and they live and rainforests, deciduous forests,
and grasslands. So they are omnivores and will eat anything
that they can from small rodents, birds, eggs, insects, fruits,
amphibians and carrion to human food that they steal from
mini marts. Wow, they're not picky, no, no, there. They
(27:23):
have a wide palette and they are not too snooty
to say no to some fast food that for them.
So some tagus are actually kept as pets, and they
can apparently be quite chill in captivity, but in the
wild they are not that chill. They will whip you
(27:45):
with their tail if they think that you're trying to
attack it. But apparently pet tagus can be, you know,
pretty relaxed. Oh cute, I want one. They're adorable. For
some reason, pet lizards always crack me up. I just
I don't know. It's it's so funny to me because
(28:05):
I definitely respect lizards, and I think they are conscious,
but I suspect that they're sort of entire philosophy on
life is so different from anything even remotely human that
they are probably completely bewildered by being a pet. Like okay,
(28:27):
well I'm in this thing's lap. Now, that's interesting. I
just you know, because like I can, like with a
with a cat or a dog or a pig or
a bird, I kind of see certain social behaviors they
have that like they kind of like, Okay, yeah, I
guess some buddies with this human then, But like with
(28:49):
tagus and other lizards, like, it's not that I think
they can't have affection for their owners, but it's something
lizardy and I'm not sure what it is harder to
show for a lizard even really any reptile. Like people
love snakes and you know, power to you, but I
(29:10):
don't even know if that pet really sees you as
like owner and pet as your relationship. I don't know,
ye like thing that cleans my environment every once in
a while, right, The problem is, I mean the thing
is like a lot a lot of reptiles are not
particularly social. That doesn't necessarily mean an animal can't have
(29:33):
the cognition to like be friendly to a human. That
that's not because you know, cats aren't like super social
either in a wild ct like certainly the types of
cats that are domesticated cats came from, but they can be.
I think it's just like reptiles are so their brains
(29:55):
are just so different, and so I just I feel
like maybe they're like, wow, this is a cool tree.
It like moves around and yeah, it's warm, and I
like that. So in Brazilian folklore, there are various anecdotal
(30:15):
accounts over the centuries that hold that tagus will eat
a certain type of root after being bitten by a
venomous snake. So the root is called batata detau, which
I think means tagu root, and it's also known as
the Jatropha elliptica Jatropha elliptica, and this plant has also
(30:37):
been used in human folk medicine for snake bites. So yeah,
so research on the plant has revealed that the plant
does contain compounds that can have a neutralizing effect on
pit viper venom. So I find it highly credible, highly
likely that people saw these take goose chewing on these
(31:01):
roots after being bitten by snakes and then copied that
and found that the roots had this neutralizing effect for
snake bites. That is incredible that because literally, in Allow,
that's such a miracle. Like when I think about all
the things we do nowadays to like create an anti venom,
they have to collect the poison and the only do
(31:22):
your science thing and change it, and here's this root
that grows naturally. I mean, I will say, don't give
up on the anti venoms, because I think probably a
good deal more effective holistic medicine only Katie, Oh my god, no, no,
trust the anti venom, yes, how I want it if
(31:45):
I'm bitten, right, but how but if you are in
dire straits, right, you don't have access to anti venom
or in times before we were able to develop anti venom. Yeah,
this stuff seems to have had an effect, and it's
you know, we this is sort of the course of
human history. There we discovered plants and substances that have
these properties. Now we can refine those too much greater extent.
(32:09):
We can like isolate the compounds that actually have the
effect that we want. But a lot of these compounds
are things that originated from nature. So we learn from nature.
We can. You know, back before we were able to
develop medicine in the same way that we do today
with pharmaceuticals, we were able to find stuff. You know. Again,
(32:30):
that's not saying like go and eat a bunch of
roots and see what happens. It's nice that a lot
of people did that before our time, and trial tested
various roots and berries and stuff, so we don't have
to do that as much. Thank you for your sacrificing ancestors,
because I don't want to right, not to torment you
(32:56):
too much, Joel, but I do want to talk about
birds real briefly. Again, Okay, let's do it. Let's do it.
So sometimes birds will build their entire homes out of medicine.
So yeah, it's just like man. If I could have
walls made out of thailannel and just lick the wall
whenever I had a headache, I'd so do that. It's
(33:18):
very helpful. It's like the Charlie the Willie Wonka is
chocolate factory, but it's like Willie Walker's funky house of pharmaceuticals,
and the walls are made of thailannel and the chairs
are made out of I don't know, xanax, all good stuff.
Oh my goodness. So European starlings will line their nests
(33:44):
with wild carrot plants, which contain be sidosterol, which deters
mites and stops mites from laying eggs. Well that's good.
Yeah again, diseases so many, Yes, it's like kind of
I don't know, it's like putting mothballs in your closet,
(34:04):
except you live on the mothballs. I'm not sure it's
healthy to live on mothballs, it would now, no, but cedar.
I mean people have used cedar, like cedar chests and
cedar furniture, which helps deter things like moths and insects.
So you know. Also, house sparrows are sophisticated enough in
(34:29):
their behavior that they may switch their building nest materials
based on environmental factors. During malaria outbreaks, It's been observed
that house sparrows use more paradise flower leaves in their nests.
These leaves are rich in quinine, which can help with
symptoms of malaria. So researchers suspect that the birds may
(34:50):
be instinctively selecting leaves that help ease their malarial symptoms,
which I think is really interesting. I mean, that's great. Again,
what do I know about malaria? It's painful and not fun. No,
the fact that they can switch it up just by
using different building materials. You have you ever gotten malaria? No?
(35:13):
Thank god? I was like, because you're when you're saying
like what I know about malaria is like, oh my god,
just from that my text book learning. Yeah, it's good, good,
good man, because I've had like I've had I have
not had malaria, but I have had um, you know,
(35:34):
tummy troubles that have caused lots of bathroom time, let's say,
and to the point where sometime like, wait is this
am I dying? Am I just gonna potty myself to death? Here?
Nobody liked that moment. And malaria is like that, but
(35:55):
on steroids from what I can tell, and that's it's horrifying.
And it sweeps through a community very quickly, yes, easily transferable,
like malaria is not anything to mess around with. No, no, exactly,
would build a house to protect me from malaria if
I could? Yeah, it's it's it's not great. I mean,
it is amazing how many interventions that humans have come
(36:19):
up with for malaria, from mosquito nets to a sort
of like decreasing mosquito populations through like gene editing and stuff.
So it's we do have ways to combat it. I'm
just it's so interesting to me that animals as well
of like, you know, like, screw this malaria thing. This
is horrible. I don't know how they do it, but
(36:40):
it's I'm glad they did. And ess looks really dope.
So so you did it. If a style function, it's
all there there you go. Yeah, so I think it's
kind of interesting that a lot of complaints about medicine
(37:00):
is that it's unnatural. Have you heard that kind of
thing where it's like, oh, oh, sure, you're putting random
things in your body blah blah blah. Yeah, which is funny.
Some people who say that are like anti medicine, are like, oh,
why would I put these toxins in my body? And
then they like turns out like they smoke and drink alcohol,
Oh my gosh, or like don't bother reading anything that's
(37:23):
in their food. Right, But I also think people get
like weirded out. They're like, oh, it's genetically modified grow.
I'm like, that's really good. That helps us not start Yeah,
it helps make our plants more resistant to things like acidarine.
You want some genetically modified materials in the food you
eat that it's not all bad, Like you have to
(37:43):
be discerning. Yeah, genetic modification doesn't worry me in terms
of like my health. So like when if you genetically modify,
say a tomato, it's not gonna poison you. They would
notice if they accidentally modified a tomato to be poisonous.
The all the big thing scientists, Oops, this tomato has teeth.
(38:09):
Now we didn't mean to do that, So yeah, that's
not really a concern. The only like, the only concern
with like genetic modification is you don't want to make
a plant that's like so tough it outcompetes natural plants.
But we do that anyways, just through selective breeding of
plants and farming practices. We already do that. So it's
(38:31):
not like genetic modification is unique in that respect. It's
just you know, the same problems we have with say
agriculture and say like introducing a species somewhere or monocultures.
It's the same, it's the same stuff. Like genetic modification
has the same potential perils as that, but it is
(38:51):
not inherently a dangerous thing. It's just like any other
technology that could have negative outcomes. But certainly it's not.
It's not just oh it sounds sciency and therefore it's dangerous.
It's like no, I mean, like certain like the dust bowl,
that kind of ecological disaster was just from farming practices.
It had nothing to do with like you know, modern
(39:13):
science of genetic modification. That that was just classic farming
problems and weather issues. I think it's always funny that
people think natural things are inherently better, which I feel
like listeners to this podcast, No, can't be true, given
that nature is full of terrifying parasites, animals who eat
(39:34):
their own offspring, and general mayhem. So it's not like
nature is this soft, gentle place. It's just it is
what it is. It's nature. It's full of all sorts
of things. It's literally chaos. It is literally chaos. So
many things have some things that are like highly organized
and function in the same way for millennia, something just
(39:56):
new and pop it off every day. And nature is
wild and complete, unpredictable, and if so, glad science was
like what if we try to put some order to
some of this right exactly, And so when it comes
to medicine, it's like, well, medicine, you know, being a
like upset that medicine isn't natural. I mean, animals, you know,
use medicine, so they they kind of seek out their
(40:20):
own medical treatments in ways, and so it's like, you know,
it is not it is not unnatural to use medicine.
It's just that we have often refined medicine to a
much greater extent than animals are capable of doing one
thing in particular. I think that people have hang ups
about are like a reproductive health use of hormone treatments.
(40:42):
We're like, oh, but that's like it's unnatural to do
those things. Like there's this it's this specific thing, like
once you start like controlling your own reproductive health, there's
there's a lot of like pearl clutching over it, being like, oh,
that's not natural, but act Actually, there's some evidence that
animals may have figured out how to have some control
(41:05):
over their reproductive health for a long time. That is
mind blowing, Katie, what how so? The Southern miriqui, also
known as the wooly spider monkey, is a New World
monkey found in Brazil. They are the largest primates found
in the Americas, although they really cannot compete with Old
(41:29):
World monkeys or Old World primates in terms of size.
So these way around thirty pounds or fifteen kilograms. They
are brown, they are fluffy, They are absolutely adorable. They
eat fruit and they help disperse fruit seeds. They are
sometimes called the hippie monkey because aggression within groups of
(41:52):
monkeys is rare and they are super peaceful. Oh I
love them already. I know, so female and males are
similar in size, so there's not really any aggression based
on sex, and there's not really much hierarchy in these groups.
The only aggression they really have is sometimes they will
(42:14):
attack like outsiders, monkeys that aren't in the group, and
it's unknown exactly why or when they do that. So
it's not like they are one hundred percent pacifists, but
they are a very, very surprisingly peaceful species of monkey.
I am upset that they have a bad rap when
they're actually out here just being kind, generous souls. Okay,
(42:39):
what do these This is possibly racist? I don't like it.
Oh yeah, I get yeah, Like I don't know, it's
kind of funny to me calling them hippie monkeys. It's
like kind of insulting. I don't know. But they are, Yeah,
they're they're very sweet species of monkeys. And really interestingly,
(43:02):
during mating periods, female mariquis have been observed to eat
plants that contain isoflavonoids, which can raise the female's estrogen
and decreases her fertility. Ah yeah, but these same monkeys
have also been observed eating plants that contain stig masterol,
(43:25):
which may increase her fertility. So these two plants they
will eat, you know, alternatingly throughout mating periods that can
either increase or decrease their fertility. So this, while this
hasn't been proven, it is possible that these monkeys are
(43:45):
able to control the chance of reproductive success based on
eating these plants. So I think it is something that
would be really really fascinating to see more research on
because it appears like they have the tools to be
able to exert some amount of reproductive control, which, to
(44:06):
be fair, like a lot of animals do. It's just
usually has something to do with biology, like being able
to reject sperm packets or you know, like um, but
with these they might actually be using plants to control
their fertility. That is so smart. Oh my gosh, Oh
(44:28):
my gosh. I had no clue any animal could do this,
but to know that they can do it, you know,
in both directions they get to choose, Uh, that's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah.
And so you know it's like I one of my
pet peeves. Now I don't have any children, but I
have seen these things about like people talking about how
like if you have any medical assistance with like pregnancy
(44:51):
or fertility, or like say you have a C section
rather than giving you know, a quote unquote natural birth,
Like that's how it doesn't count. And that is so
silly to me. It's like, sure, okay, just don't wear glasses, then,
I guess because that's not natural, don't you know? Like
so many like you're wearing clothes, Like what are you
(45:12):
talking about? That? It's not it doesn't count if someone
has medical interventions for pregnancy. Right. People are stingy with
their acknowledgements sometimes, and I'm sure they just want to
chalk it up to like, oh, they're just dumb animals,
they're just eating food, like it doesn't make a difference
(45:33):
when I feel like even animals, even when they're moving
on instinctly, like nothing is happening for just no reason.
It is chaos. But you know, again, people are out
here making choices, and even animals get to make choices,
right Like your dog prefers the crab grass some of
the others. That's what she likes. So you know, I
(45:54):
think it's it's strange and especially given the way we've
seen you know, animals that mimic our way of thinking,
or maybe not mimic, but have similar patterns for example,
like elephants more and they're dead and like raise their
kids and they have like whole protective stances. Like we
know animals have feelings and cognitive thoughts about how they
(46:15):
want to move through the world. And so I think
to deny you know, these animals, they're reproductive rights. Shame
on you world, boo, Yeah, shame on us. We're also
denying ourselves reproductive rights. Hey, there it is. Yeah. And actually,
speaking of elephants, Joel, African elephants have been observed to
(46:38):
possibly exhibit reproductive zoo pharmacognosi, as they will seek out
leaves from the boragin us say no, wait, boragins. Yeah,
I think I got it. Bagginess say trees to induce labor.
So these, these same trees, these same leaves is something
(46:59):
that humans have been using for centuries to induce labor
in folk medicine in many parts of the world where
these breagness say trees exist, And it seems like through
observational evidence that elephants may do the same thing. How
very midwife of them. Yes, I knew elephants are like
a top three animal for me love an elephant, and
(47:23):
so this does not surprise me at all that they
found ways to be there, like that baby is in breach.
We got to induce labor immediately, get them out here.
Please make a great anatomy show. But with elephants, Oh
my god, I'll be here. I would watch that so much.
I mean, Grandma elephant really holding down the foe like
you got your bulls on the outside. They're definitely the
(47:44):
surgeons where they're just all cocky for the reason I
see it. Yeah, no, I mean it is I would
look like Elephant society is so fascinating. First of all,
it's like pretty much a matriarchy, so it is the
female elder female elephants sharing all their knowledge, passing it down.
The males are typically will be the ones that disperse,
(48:08):
so they will leave the group when they are adults
and go off and find a new group of elephants
to like, mate with and such. So the females are
kind of the constant core of a group of elephants,
a pack of elephants, so they will kind of pass
on a lot of parenting skills as well. So you'll
(48:29):
have like these grand grandmas and mom and aunts and stuff,
and they all they often show a lot of interest too.
When an elephant is giving birth, like there will be
a crowd of elephants, including juvenile elephants who have not
had experience with this yet, and it's like they're just
passing all this information along. Often, like the elder elephants
(48:51):
will teach younger mothers, like how they're supposed to take
care of the young elephants and stuff, and kind of
like correct them on how to you know, say the
elephant trips over. It's like, look, this is what you do.
So it is. It is really amazing. I think also
that they seem to have I mean, it's not surprising
to me, given that they seem to have very sophisticated
(49:14):
abilities to understand, like remembering information that is important, like
remembering certain routes that they need to take, or like
if the weather is a certain way, they know to
take a different route in this case, being able to
identify a plant that is potentially helpful to induce labor
when you know they are having perhaps some issues or something.
(49:37):
I think it's it's I think it's very very plausible
that this is totally intentional. And I also think it's
plausible that this is something that they've learned and that
this is something that's passed out as information. I mean,
of course, this is something that would need more observational
studies to kind of confirm. But yeah, I think that
elephants are sophisticated enough that I would I would suspect
(50:00):
that they would be able to pass on information about
like these medicinal plants too. Too. Younger elephants, oh for sure.
And they're so being a lab cooking. Yes, the young
just I don't know, they're so uh they're they. I
(50:20):
also just they's so the wrinkliness of elephants. It's like
they're always wearing pants. I like their little eyes. There's
also they are have boobs like people, like they're one
of the only they do. They're one of the only
animals out there where the females have boobs like human
women do. Most most animals, like their teats are smaller,
(50:45):
less boobuler. But yeah, elephants got big old honkers and
I'm not talking about their trunks. It was shocking the
FaceTime my STI I was like, wait, what, oh my gosh, okay,
and then I wanted to get her bra but I
was like, I bet support from down there is easier
than us trying to balance these things on our chest
(51:07):
for walking around all day. They're like, no, that just
hangs low down there. It's fine, Yeah, nothing, do not
need support. I would like to see someone trying to
fit an elephant for our bra though, that would be yes, please, Yeah,
volunteers should be adorable. I feel like you would need
some structural engineers to figure out how like the tensile
(51:28):
strength for you, an assistance you'll need. There'll be trial
and r you know, trial tests and when we put
on the sides and oh yes, but no bows because
we're over that. Well job. Well, before we go, we've
(51:49):
got to play a little game, and that game is
called the Mystery Animal Sound Game. Every week I play
a mystery animal sound and you the listener, and you
the guests, trying to guess who is squawking and it
can be any animal in the world. So last week's
(52:10):
Mystery Animals sound hint was is there a frog in
your mouth? Or are you just happy to see me?
So here is the sound. No, that's a ad. Don't
worry about that. I was like, what animal was that?
It's an ad for Fanta, which I get now. So Joel,
(52:34):
can you guess who is making that sound. It sounded
like a ghost frog. Wow. I don't know what that is,
but that's what it sounded. I mean. This is sometimes
called a ghost bird of this Yes, this is the
common poe two. It is a bird related to frog
(52:55):
mouth birds and night jars. Congratulation to Auntie B, Grant
W and Joey P. Who all gives correctly. So like
frog mouth birds, they have wide frog like mouths. They
are found in tropical regions of Central and South America.
They hunt insects at night and during the day. They
(53:18):
like to pretend to be a part of a tree,
with their coloring and stiff posture resembling a jagged end
of a tree stump. So they'll kind of like like
sort of put their head in the air and flatten
their bodies out to make themselves look more convincingly like
part of a tree. It's it's very funny, all right,
(53:42):
But yes, unfortunately it is a bird, and it is
one that I think. It's on the creepier side of
birds to me. It's really cute though, like the huge
mouth is funny to me, But I could I could
also see an argument for it being horrifying. I'm not
here for the muppet birds, the giant mouths that could
(54:02):
swallow me whole. All right again, Once these things remember
that they're actually dinosaurs, it's over for us. I yeah,
but see, this is why I'm trying to be on
the side of the birds, so that when that time comes,
they'll use me as like their millet butler. Oh I
like that. I like that. That's a good plan. My
long game is just they know that I respect them,
(54:25):
and so when they become our overlords, I'm gonna just
do what they say. I'm like, okay, mister bird, you
already know I'm afraid. Just tell me what to do
and I'll do it. I don't like it here, It's fine.
You want me to use this toothbrush to give you
little head scratches. I will do that anything you say,
hopefully not my toothbrush. This bird punishment using your toothbrush
(54:50):
to give them scratcheese. All right, now, onto you this
week's mystery animals. Sound the hint This is one peeved, pissed,
particularly provoked pond paddler. Oh did you hear that? I did?
(55:15):
He's an angry fella. So Joel, who do you think
is making that sound. I am going to suggest that
is a vampire pig. Again. Not sure what that is,
(55:37):
but it sounds like a big between like an angry
Jacula and a struggling pig. Interesting vampire pig. That's my vote.
I love it. I love it. Um. Well, maybe next
week we will find out if this is indeed a
poor sign Dracula or something else. If you just think
(56:00):
you know who is making this sound, you can write
to me at Creature feature Pod at gmail dot com. Joel,
thank you so much for coming on the show and
tolerating a few birds here and there. Where can people
find you maybe? Thank you so much for having me back.
And every time I come I faced my fear of
birds and I can less afraid. So I'm grateful for you.
(56:23):
You guys can follow me all over the internet at
Joel Meek. That's Joe L E m O and I
que please do that. Joel is fantastic, And yeah, thank
you so much for coming on. And thank you the
listener for you know, using your ears to listen to it.
(56:44):
I appreciate that, and I also appreciate whatever you leave
a rating or review. I read all the reviews and
they mean so much to me and I really really
do appreciate it when you take a little bit time
out of your date. Tell me what you think of
the podcasts. This is really wonderful and thank you to
the Space Cossacks for their super awesome song. Exo loom
(57:07):
Enough Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
like the one you just heard, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcast, or Higgins, what where have you listen to
your favorite shows? See you next Wednesday.
Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host
of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,
and today on the show, animals who like to play doctor.
These critters have degrees in pharmacology they earned at Pile
of Twigs and Leaves University. Paging doctor Yogi Bear, We've
(00:28):
got a serious case of the itchies and bities. From
insect repellents to treating dangerous bites. We'll find out that
animals can look at a tree and see a pharmacy.
Discover this and more as we answer the angel question
would you call an elephant midwife more of a mega wife?
Joining me today is friend of the podcast and producer
(00:51):
of many lovely iHeartRadio shows, including the podcast Fake Doctors,
Real Friends. Joel Monique. Welcome, Hey Katie, Thanks for having
me back on such a dope topic. I'm assuming no
birds are into doctoring. Well, there's like a few a
(01:11):
few birds. Okay, Once again, I will face my fears
with you. Joel does not like birds. It is something
that somehow we're still friends even though Joel doesn't like birds.
I don't even know how we've respect birds I just
fear them right as well. Yeah, I want to hunt
(01:32):
them down. I don't, you know, have a vendetta against
the birds. I just would prefer they stay on their
side of the street. Okay, they get the sky, I'll
stay on the ground. It's no problem. What about penguins.
Penguins are more like plushies, and therefore they can stay
I see they don't. They don't kind of need to
(01:52):
learn to fly qualify as birds to you. Yes, So
if a bird is I guess, if a bird is
round enough and on the ground enough, that's okay with you.
If it's cheeks can apple, it can hang around, okay, adorable, adorable.
Love a penguin, all of them, the little ones, the
tall ones, that tuxedoed ones. All penguins are welcome here,
(02:16):
the business, casual ones, all of them, all of them.
Turkeys need to learn to fly, though, I need them
to get the hell out of here. Terrified turkeys are
a little more dinosaur like. I get that. They are
sort of you know, the head. The head is a
little bit you know, gnarled. Yeah, yeah, Well, we aren't
(02:42):
focusing on birds today. We're just talking about all the
animals who use natural medicine. I feel like we think
as humans that we've kind of quartered the market on medicine,
that we're the only ones who use it. But in fact,
animals have been using medicine probably far longer than humans
ever have, and they find everything out there in nature.
(03:08):
So Joe, well, have you ever seen a bear scratching
its back against a tree? Sure? Have I have too.
I actually saw one in person. Ones from far away,
Otherwise I would have peepeed and poo pooed my pants.
It was close up. I have a healthy fear of bears, yeah,
(03:32):
very reasonable, but this one was quite far away. It
was from I think I was staying at a lodge
or something in the Sequoias and there was a window
you could look out, and I saw in the distance
a bear scratching its back against a tree, and it
was so cute. It's adorable. They look like they're dancing,
(03:52):
just shaking their groove thing. I know, they look so
into it. It It looks so like they are just having
the time of their life. They look adorable. I know
they could rip my face off and eat it like
a big lasagna, But I still think they're really cute,
especially when they do the whole back scratchies against the tree.
(04:13):
They just they seem like they are an utter bliss
when they do that topier moment for bears. So what
do you think that they are trying to do when
they are scratching their back against a tree, Katie? Are
they not trying to scratch an itch? They probably are.
Here's the thing is that it's probably a number of things.
Like it's probably itchy for the itchies. They may also
(04:38):
be marking territory. It's probably like a multi functional thing, right,
Like they get the itchies out, and then also other
bears know that Gerald was here and he had an
itchy butt. But there maybe yet another reason. Recently, as
(04:58):
reported by The New York Times, researchers have found that
brown and black bears seem particularly attracted to using specific
species of conifer trees, and furthermore, they are attracted to
the scent of beach tar in experimental settings, and the
researchers suspect that they may be selecting specific trees for
(05:22):
a reason. Zoo pharmacognosy, which is a big word which
basically means animals that select specific plants or substances and
either eat them or apply them topically to treat themselves
for a variety of conditions, such as parasite infestation or
(05:43):
the itchies. Oh my gosh, trees are so helpful. The
trees are good in general. Hot take. I like trees.
They're good for Yes, they keep the birds away from me. Yes,
there you go up off the floor and away from
(06:03):
where I walk. And that's beautiful of them. Pretty Yeah,
keeps them birds arboreal. So you may have observed zoo
farm a cognosy yourself. Every time your cat or your
dog eats grass and throws up, maybe a case of
(06:23):
your cat or dog medicating itself. So often, but not always,
grass eating is a way for your cat or your
dog to help with a tommy egg or infection of
an intestinal parasite, And as you may know, it causes
them to throw up or sometimes have diarrhea, which can
(06:43):
help them get rid of the parasite or stomach bug
whatever it is causing them distress. Although sometimes they just
eat grass because they like how it tastes. So my
dog is definitely the latter, because we will just like
mow along on. I'm like, what are you doing, kid, Like,
get out of here? Yeah, you know, it's gonna make
(07:04):
you sick, and she's like, well, what if I said
a little bit more of this grass? Yeah, I'm sure
it'll be fine. Yeah. Like my dog, I think, sometimes
likes to nibble grass. It's very specific grass. She likes
to eat though, that like this thicker. I don't really
know the species of grass much, but it's like the
thicker grass and she maybe it's called crabgrass. I'm not
(07:25):
really sure, but she likes that. And she's also a
dog who likes a good vegetable, so she'll eat bell
peppers um with a gusto. So I think in her case,
sometimes grass eating is more of a culinary exploration than
trying to get rid of a tummy ache. But for
other cats and dogs, sometimes they will eat it because
(07:45):
they've got a tummy ache. That's good to know. And
then you can kind of keep an eye like, oh
he's not feeling good. Yeah, you track of it a
little bit. It's a good thing. Yeah, it's not something
to panic over, like you said, Like if your cat
or dog regularly eats grass and they've otherwise got a
clean bill of health from the vet, like they probably
(08:06):
just like the flavor. It's sort of like I love
ginger and ginger beer, and I also love it for
tummy aches. It's great, It's perfect for tummy aches and
delicious just for no reason. Yeah exactly, I'll drink it
just because it's good, but I'll also drink it when
I've got a tummy ache. Fortunately, it doesn't make me
(08:26):
yack up a bunch of grass onto the carpet. Awful. Yeah,
it's me big farm us. So they can get pills
that don't make them sick. So yeah, So it is
a relatively common thing found in animals that they will
eat stuff or apply stuff to make themselves feel better.
(08:47):
And so back to the bears. Researchers found that bears
seem to select specific trees, specific conifers, and they also
found that beech tar and turpentines. Turpentine is distilled tree resin.
You wouldn't really find it much in nature, but it
like the the tree resin in this distilled form. But
(09:10):
still it is a strong smell that would be similar
to the kinds of like tree resin that you would
find in the trees. And so in experimental settings, both
of these compounds seem to attract bears, and more importantly,
they seem to repel ticks. So ticks are a menace
to furry society. And it's hard when you're a big bear,
(09:35):
even though you got those big arms with big old claws,
still to get get all those ticks off you, especially
ones that are like right right on your back. You know,
it's hard. No, oh, right in the middle where if
you get a bad itch you would need a tree
to scratch. Yeah, got pull ticks out, plus takes care
of you so much disease. So that's exactly exactly. Parasites
(09:56):
are not just a nuisance. They can be quite dangerous,
and so far, while the evidence is circumstantial, it seems
plausible that the bears are in addition to getting that
nice scratch on which gosh it just if you, I mean,
like I imagine being a bear and getting that nice
itchy tree would just be the best feeling. But then
(10:17):
also they are getting potentially some tree sap as insect
repellent when they are scratching themselves on the bark, and
so they are getting this like it's like a backscratcher
plus zeet combination. Well might start selling that immediately, Oh
my god, yeah, I'd buy it in the summer. It's high.
(10:40):
I'm trying to move around too much. Love a two
and one appliance brilliant, just pocket sized conifer. Give me
a little pocket tree to scratch my back on. Amazing. Also,
bears have been observed mixing Osha roots and their own
saliva into a kind of sticky paste that they rub
all over their bodies, which may double as an insect
(11:02):
repellent and bite soothing substance. Bears are foraging for moisturizers.
That is crazy. They belong on TikTok. They really get
bears on TikTok right now. Yeah, I know. I'm so
intimidated by like skincare routines online where it's just there's
(11:22):
like a five thousand serums that you put on in
a specific order, you know, masks you're you're supposed to.
I mean like it's like your face is an old
timey photograph that you're trying to treat in dark room,
and it's intimidating. Once I got to the droppery, so
(11:43):
I was like, this is so much. I was so
I got one that has like retina and collagen in it,
and I was like, okay, it's like firm and like
refine perfect. But then I was scared of it, like
it was a chemical only use like pipe pets and
chemistry labs. Do I touch it? Is it safe? It's
very weird. It's so weird. It is very strange. I
(12:07):
have to admit I do use like do like have
my own very small in comparison skincare routine, but it is.
I try to keep it simple. Otherwise it's just it's madness.
It's timax out at five steps, five skincare routine steps,
and that's that's yeah. Yeah, It's like I wash my
(12:30):
face maybe some kind of exfoliation, and then moisturize, and
then that's it. I can't. I can't think about it anymore.
Otherwise it's all I'm gonna be doing all day. But
that seems like what you need on a very day
to day basis. And then I'll have like mass and
like overnight moisturizers because I don't know. That's what older
ladies did before me, when they hit their thirties, they
(12:52):
were like, okay, now a night cream, that's it. That's
that's what we're doing. Pet. Maybe just like I could
fill an immersion tank up with some sort of viscous
goo that gets me youthful, and I sleep in that
like a Disney villain, right right, Don't ask what the
(13:17):
goo is made out of. Certainly not the blood of virgins.
Don't worry about no yeah nood extract. But yeah, So,
bears have a very skimple, very simple skincare routine definitely
belongs on TikTok, though, I'd watch the heck out of
a bear beauty influencer just chewing on rocks and slathering
(13:41):
its own saliva all over its face. Just adorable. Can
you how to put on lashes? A little bear? I'm ready?
Can you imagine a Paddington Uh influencer just like Paddington
on TikTok? That that's that would get me in. That
would finally get me into TikTok like I've resisted so far.
But if Paddington was on TikTok talking about his little
(14:03):
his little beauty routines, that'd be it. I'd be done.
His overall collection alone would be enough to draw me in.
Let's go team off of the century. So this habit
of bears potentially to be using these substances as bug
repellent is not unprecedented at all in the Animal Kingdom.
(14:25):
There are lots of other examples, For instance, Capuccian monkeys.
These are New World monkeys found in Central and South America,
and they have a habit of rubbing smelly, acidic plants
all over their bodies as insect repellent. They've been found
to rub citrus, clematis, flower, and pepper plants over their
(14:47):
fur to deter parasites, which makes them smell lovely. I
was gonna say so now we're also making perfumes. Yeah,
very lovely again foraged in the forests with their bare hands.
Talk about work uh hashtag Amish life. I would absolutely,
(15:09):
I absolutely watch these berries get down on the TikTok.
I also feel like I have enough of those ingredients
that I could be making my own at home, which
is nice. Yeah yeah, around and pepper root. Yeah. So
these these uh capuchin monkeys also in captivity, they will
use plants that are not available to them in the
(15:31):
wild but still effective at the Dudley Zoo in England.
Captive capuchin monkeys use spring onions given to them by
caretakers and rub them all over themselves. They just go
they love these these spring onions. They'll grab them and
apparently immediately start rubbing themselves down, rubbing under their little armpits, uh,
(15:56):
rubbing Like, no, this is what you think. It's like
l or some sense that they have that's heightened that
we don't where they're like, oh this is yeah for me. Yeah.
I think it's a strong smell and it may even
be sort of a like they may be able to
smell that it's kind of acidic, and it's that acidic
smell that's like, oh this this goes right on my body.
(16:19):
And parents will rub their young with it as well,
so it just kind of like rub down the babies
that are too young to kind of know how to
do it themselves. And so it's my my suspicion is
that it is a combination of instinct and learning because
they are social animals and so they probably instinctively know
(16:41):
like which smells kind of right to them, but there
may be some aspect of social learning in them because
their their parents will rub them down as well. Okay,
I love that onions is protection, yeah, which is do
it too human? Which is monkeys? I keep I always
(17:02):
get garlic and onions mixed up, so I feel like
I would probably try to ward off a vampire with onions,
and then it's like, oh wow, it's great. Now my
human meal comes with some onions. Mixing garlics and onion
is the best way to start any dish. I mean honestly,
it really. This is the magic to make your kitchen
(17:23):
smell divine garlic. So yeah, yeah, that's like goesn't anything.
Chocolate cake? Yeah yeah, Lessen, you can highlight your chocolate
cake with it. Just roast a little garlic, sprinkle it
on top. I promise you was a surprise. You'd be like, bam,
that's really flavorful. So another animal who likes to rub
(17:47):
stuff on themselves are the white nose coates, who are
adorable mammals who live in Mexico, Central and South America
and cowates sort of they look like a long game
a raccoon, Like he took a raccoon and just kind
of stretched it out a little bit. Oh. They've got
longer snouts, longer tails, and they they're very cute. They
(18:11):
like to scratch the bark of certain plants and then
rub themselves or others in the sap. So they might
even take some of the sap and rub like a
comrade up with this sap, and the SAP has been
found to have insect repellent properties. Nice. I like that
they're like, listen, mosquitoes. I know we're out here in
(18:33):
the jungle all animals, but what we won't be doing
is devouring me as somebody who was allergic to mosquitoes
as a child. I get it, man. I wish that
there was this team up between you and the cowads
and they were just like rub and sap on little
child Joel and mean like it's all right, we're your
magical animal friends and we're here to help you. I
(18:55):
used to rub popsicles on them because they hurt, so
they'd be like icy. But then now I'm covered in
like sticky sugar. So the mosquitoes game and ate me somewhere.
What are you doing for baby Joel? It was like seven,
It was really a problem. You really did. You really
did need the Disney princess treatment of having some magical
(19:19):
kawatee and bear friends. I have been so great. I
would have been less lonely and less bitten off, unfortunately
for you. The last animal we're going to talk about
is birds in relation to animals who rub anti insect
or pellent on them. The ironic twist here is that
(19:41):
the birds use insects to get rid of insects sons. Yeah,
so tons of bird species do something called anting, where
they rub ants all over their feathers, which causes the
ants to release formic acid, which is a defense mechanism.
And then this formic acid is not strong enough to
(20:01):
hurt the birds, but it cuts their feathers and acts
as a lice killer. This is horrific and ingenious. So
for these poor ants who are like, no, I know
what I'll do. Let me just ooze out this thing
that usually stops things from killing me. And they're like,
it's not working, it's just making them stronger, and then
they're crushed to death. There they don't exist anymore. For
(20:24):
the birds, like what A find it just if I
roll around as some ants Now I don't have lice.
I mean for human me, that's a really that's a
difficult trade off. Yeah, I hate swarms of things and
both of these creatures. No, I can't. I can't do it.
I want either, Please can't do it? WHOA No, See
(20:44):
this is the difference between you and me. When you
were seven, you're getting attacked by mosquitos and trendys popsicles.
When I was seven, I was eating ants and trying
to attack birds. Well, not attack you, lie, A thorn bear.
What was it. I don't know. I mean maybe a
little bit. I tried to catch birds. I would say,
(21:04):
like I think I saw some wily coyote cartoons and
I set up like a box with a stick and
put some bird seed under it, and I thought this
will work. It didn't. It didn't work at all, But
ants were easier to just maybe. Okay. When I was seven,
I probably wasn't eating ants at that point. I think
that was more of a five year old me activity
(21:27):
because I was curious, and they taste, you know, kind
of peppery. They're not bad. That's your scientist adventurer spirit. Yeah,
And they've become quite idelic to see across the culinary world.
So clearly there's something right. It's just going on exactly.
I haven't discovered it yet. So before we start asking
(21:52):
animals to be our doctors handing out m d's, I
think it is important to point out that while some animals,
like primates, may learn how to use medicine by observing
their elders or through cause and effect. For many animals,
it is most likely instinctive. Just as animals instinctively seek
out food and find food appetizing that fulfills their nutritive needs,
(22:16):
medical substances may simply taste good or be attractive to them,
and it may be instinctive, but still what's really interesting
is that animals seem to not just passively eat beneficial
plants all the time, like as part of their diet,
but seem to respond dynamically to having certain symptoms or
(22:37):
injuries and will use the substance to treat themselves, which
I think that is what's so interesting to me is
like it kind of makes sense like to you know,
if you eat a certain plants like oh, this plant
also has anti inflammatory properties and it's like great. But
if you eat something like you have something happen to you,
like when a dog or cat has a tummy ache
(22:59):
and then they eat grass. That's so interesting to me
that there is there is this instinctive ability to treat
a current ailment. Yes, it definitely comes across as like thinking,
like reaching for something very specific as opposed to like
this is my natural instincts, like oh, tell me hurts
(23:20):
eat grass which I'm sure is what bare thought processes
as opposed to be like oh my, this grass will
cure me, help that parasite pass. It's just very I
think it's kind of cool to think about, like what
instinctually humans know to do well, thirsty drink water. We're
not like, well, this will help my cell homeostasis of
(23:41):
my cells work good when I drink this water. We're
just like king this water now, exactly exactly. Although I
don't know, maybe some people think in terms of their
cellular homeostasis. I don't know. It's not me, it's not
I can tell you I have never considered that as
recent for a gospel of homeostasis. I just had myself
(24:04):
a big gulp of homeostasis. So before I continue, I
want to do a shout out to Eraldo Medeiros Costaneto,
who is a professor at the University Estete Fierra de
Santana of Resilt, who wrote an excellent and comprehensive article
called zoo farm a cognosi the self medication behavior of
(24:26):
Animals from which I got a ton of info. So
that is a great article if you want to learn more.
So some zoo farm a cognozi behaviors may be hard
to catch in lab environments, but have been observed by
people living near these animals for centuries. So a lot
of times like things will be written in folklore or
(24:47):
passed down kind of in oral histories. And it's really
important to pay attention to these things because while it's
true that like it is good to have scientific method
and try to establish things in these experimental settings, these
observations by a lot of cultures are really really significant
(25:08):
when it comes to understanding animal behavior, because it is
it can be really hard to be able to witness
animal behavior being in the right place at the right
time for a wild animal. And also when you take
a wild animal and say, put it in a laboratory setting,
they won't have the same behaviors. So I think it
is so important to take seriously these accounts of cultures
(25:32):
over many centuries of the animals that they have observed.
I don't watch animals that closely, like like I'm like,
you know, maybe my dog, but like you like my
roommate almost, I'm like, hey, good, you know ed f water, Like, oh,
she's just a little authargic today. But I'm trying to
imagine like being out in the wild and being like,
(25:53):
oh that animals medicating itself. Really, people are so smart
people are That is an incredible skill. I think the
people who are like I can sit patiently and wait
for animals to respond and react and teach me something
about the environment. Yeah, seriously. And also, like throughout history,
I think there's been a lot of evidence of humans
(26:14):
like observing animal behavior, especially when it comes to what
they eat and medicate with, and then copying that and
discovering things that are helpful in human medicine. So there
is this example of species of tegu. So these are
large lizards found in central South America and Panama. So
(26:36):
Tagus are black, brown, and white lizards. They typically grow
a little over three feet long about a meter. The
largest species, the black and white tigu, grows a little
over four feet long or one point three meters. So
they're hefty, you know that. Big lizards. That's a big lizard. Yeah.
(26:57):
They are burrowing lizards and they live and rainforests, deciduous forests,
and grasslands. So they are omnivores and will eat anything
that they can from small rodents, birds, eggs, insects, fruits,
amphibians and carrion to human food that they steal from
mini marts. Wow, they're not picky, no, no, there. They
(27:23):
have a wide palette and they are not too snooty
to say no to some fast food that for them.
So some tagus are actually kept as pets, and they
can apparently be quite chill in captivity, but in the
wild they are not that chill. They will whip you
(27:45):
with their tail if they think that you're trying to
attack it. But apparently pet tagus can be, you know,
pretty relaxed. Oh cute, I want one. They're adorable. For
some reason, pet lizards always crack me up. I just
I don't know. It's it's so funny to me because
(28:05):
I definitely respect lizards, and I think they are conscious,
but I suspect that they're sort of entire philosophy on
life is so different from anything even remotely human that
they are probably completely bewildered by being a pet. Like okay,
(28:27):
well I'm in this thing's lap. Now, that's interesting. I
just you know, because like I can, like with a
with a cat or a dog or a pig or
a bird, I kind of see certain social behaviors they
have that like they kind of like, Okay, yeah, I
guess some buddies with this human then, But like with
(28:49):
tagus and other lizards, like, it's not that I think
they can't have affection for their owners, but it's something
lizardy and I'm not sure what it is harder to
show for a lizard even really any reptile. Like people
love snakes and you know, power to you, but I
(29:10):
don't even know if that pet really sees you as
like owner and pet as your relationship. I don't know,
ye like thing that cleans my environment every once in
a while, right, The problem is, I mean the thing
is like a lot a lot of reptiles are not
particularly social. That doesn't necessarily mean an animal can't have
(29:33):
the cognition to like be friendly to a human. That
that's not because you know, cats aren't like super social
either in a wild ct like certainly the types of
cats that are domesticated cats came from, but they can be.
I think it's just like reptiles are so their brains
(29:55):
are just so different, and so I just I feel
like maybe they're like, wow, this is a cool tree.
It like moves around and yeah, it's warm, and I
like that. So in Brazilian folklore, there are various anecdotal
(30:15):
accounts over the centuries that hold that tagus will eat
a certain type of root after being bitten by a
venomous snake. So the root is called batata detau, which
I think means tagu root, and it's also known as
the Jatropha elliptica Jatropha elliptica, and this plant has also
(30:37):
been used in human folk medicine for snake bites. So yeah,
so research on the plant has revealed that the plant
does contain compounds that can have a neutralizing effect on
pit viper venom. So I find it highly credible, highly
likely that people saw these take goose chewing on these
(31:01):
roots after being bitten by snakes and then copied that
and found that the roots had this neutralizing effect for
snake bites. That is incredible that because literally, in Allow,
that's such a miracle. Like when I think about all
the things we do nowadays to like create an anti venom,
they have to collect the poison and the only do
(31:22):
your science thing and change it, and here's this root
that grows naturally. I mean, I will say, don't give
up on the anti venoms, because I think probably a
good deal more effective holistic medicine only Katie, Oh my god, no, no,
trust the anti venom, yes, how I want it if
(31:45):
I'm bitten, right, but how but if you are in
dire straits, right, you don't have access to anti venom
or in times before we were able to develop anti venom. Yeah,
this stuff seems to have had an effect, and it's
you know, we this is sort of the course of
human history. There we discovered plants and substances that have
these properties. Now we can refine those too much greater extent.
(32:09):
We can like isolate the compounds that actually have the
effect that we want. But a lot of these compounds
are things that originated from nature. So we learn from nature.
We can. You know, back before we were able to
develop medicine in the same way that we do today
with pharmaceuticals, we were able to find stuff. You know. Again,
(32:30):
that's not saying like go and eat a bunch of
roots and see what happens. It's nice that a lot
of people did that before our time, and trial tested
various roots and berries and stuff, so we don't have
to do that as much. Thank you for your sacrificing ancestors,
because I don't want to right, not to torment you
(32:56):
too much, Joel, but I do want to talk about
birds real briefly. Again, Okay, let's do it. Let's do it.
So sometimes birds will build their entire homes out of medicine.
So yeah, it's just like man. If I could have
walls made out of thailannel and just lick the wall
whenever I had a headache, I'd so do that. It's
(33:18):
very helpful. It's like the Charlie the Willie Wonka is
chocolate factory, but it's like Willie Walker's funky house of pharmaceuticals,
and the walls are made of thailannel and the chairs
are made out of I don't know, xanax, all good stuff.
Oh my goodness. So European starlings will line their nests
(33:44):
with wild carrot plants, which contain be sidosterol, which deters
mites and stops mites from laying eggs. Well that's good.
Yeah again, diseases so many, Yes, it's like kind of
I don't know, it's like putting mothballs in your closet,
(34:04):
except you live on the mothballs. I'm not sure it's
healthy to live on mothballs, it would now, no, but cedar.
I mean people have used cedar, like cedar chests and
cedar furniture, which helps deter things like moths and insects.
So you know. Also, house sparrows are sophisticated enough in
(34:29):
their behavior that they may switch their building nest materials
based on environmental factors. During malaria outbreaks, It's been observed
that house sparrows use more paradise flower leaves in their nests.
These leaves are rich in quinine, which can help with
symptoms of malaria. So researchers suspect that the birds may
(34:50):
be instinctively selecting leaves that help ease their malarial symptoms,
which I think is really interesting. I mean, that's great. Again,
what do I know about malaria? It's painful and not fun. No,
the fact that they can switch it up just by
using different building materials. You have you ever gotten malaria? No?
(35:13):
Thank god? I was like, because you're when you're saying
like what I know about malaria is like, oh my god,
just from that my text book learning. Yeah, it's good, good,
good man, because I've had like I've had I have
not had malaria, but I have had um, you know,
(35:34):
tummy troubles that have caused lots of bathroom time, let's say,
and to the point where sometime like, wait is this
am I dying? Am I just gonna potty myself to death? Here?
Nobody liked that moment. And malaria is like that, but
(35:55):
on steroids from what I can tell, and that's it's horrifying.
And it sweeps through a community very quickly, yes, easily transferable,
like malaria is not anything to mess around with. No, no, exactly,
would build a house to protect me from malaria if
I could? Yeah, it's it's it's not great. I mean,
it is amazing how many interventions that humans have come
(36:19):
up with for malaria, from mosquito nets to a sort
of like decreasing mosquito populations through like gene editing and stuff.
So it's we do have ways to combat it. I'm
just it's so interesting to me that animals as well
of like, you know, like, screw this malaria thing. This
is horrible. I don't know how they do it, but
(36:40):
it's I'm glad they did. And ess looks really dope.
So so you did it. If a style function, it's
all there there you go. Yeah, so I think it's
kind of interesting that a lot of complaints about medicine
(37:00):
is that it's unnatural. Have you heard that kind of
thing where it's like, oh, oh, sure, you're putting random
things in your body blah blah blah. Yeah, which is funny.
Some people who say that are like anti medicine, are like, oh,
why would I put these toxins in my body? And
then they like turns out like they smoke and drink alcohol,
Oh my gosh, or like don't bother reading anything that's
(37:23):
in their food. Right, But I also think people get
like weirded out. They're like, oh, it's genetically modified grow.
I'm like, that's really good. That helps us not start Yeah,
it helps make our plants more resistant to things like acidarine.
You want some genetically modified materials in the food you
eat that it's not all bad, Like you have to
(37:43):
be discerning. Yeah, genetic modification doesn't worry me in terms
of like my health. So like when if you genetically modify,
say a tomato, it's not gonna poison you. They would
notice if they accidentally modified a tomato to be poisonous.
The all the big thing scientists, Oops, this tomato has teeth.
(38:09):
Now we didn't mean to do that, So yeah, that's
not really a concern. The only like, the only concern
with like genetic modification is you don't want to make
a plant that's like so tough it outcompetes natural plants.
But we do that anyways, just through selective breeding of
plants and farming practices. We already do that. So it's
(38:31):
not like genetic modification is unique in that respect. It's
just you know, the same problems we have with say
agriculture and say like introducing a species somewhere or monocultures.
It's the same, it's the same stuff. Like genetic modification
has the same potential perils as that, but it is
(38:51):
not inherently a dangerous thing. It's just like any other
technology that could have negative outcomes. But certainly it's not.
It's not just oh it sounds sciency and therefore it's dangerous.
It's like no, I mean, like certain like the dust bowl,
that kind of ecological disaster was just from farming practices.
It had nothing to do with like you know, modern
(39:13):
science of genetic modification. That that was just classic farming
problems and weather issues. I think it's always funny that
people think natural things are inherently better, which I feel
like listeners to this podcast, No, can't be true, given
that nature is full of terrifying parasites, animals who eat
(39:34):
their own offspring, and general mayhem. So it's not like
nature is this soft, gentle place. It's just it is
what it is. It's nature. It's full of all sorts
of things. It's literally chaos. It is literally chaos. So
many things have some things that are like highly organized
and function in the same way for millennia, something just
(39:56):
new and pop it off every day. And nature is
wild and complete, unpredictable, and if so, glad science was
like what if we try to put some order to
some of this right exactly, And so when it comes
to medicine, it's like, well, medicine, you know, being a
like upset that medicine isn't natural. I mean, animals, you know,
use medicine, so they they kind of seek out their
(40:20):
own medical treatments in ways, and so it's like, you know,
it is not it is not unnatural to use medicine.
It's just that we have often refined medicine to a
much greater extent than animals are capable of doing one
thing in particular. I think that people have hang ups
about are like a reproductive health use of hormone treatments.
(40:42):
We're like, oh, but that's like it's unnatural to do
those things. Like there's this it's this specific thing, like
once you start like controlling your own reproductive health, there's
there's a lot of like pearl clutching over it, being like, oh,
that's not natural, but act Actually, there's some evidence that
animals may have figured out how to have some control
(41:05):
over their reproductive health for a long time. That is
mind blowing, Katie, what how so? The Southern miriqui, also
known as the wooly spider monkey, is a New World
monkey found in Brazil. They are the largest primates found
in the Americas, although they really cannot compete with Old
(41:29):
World monkeys or Old World primates in terms of size.
So these way around thirty pounds or fifteen kilograms. They
are brown, they are fluffy, They are absolutely adorable. They
eat fruit and they help disperse fruit seeds. They are
sometimes called the hippie monkey because aggression within groups of
(41:52):
monkeys is rare and they are super peaceful. Oh I
love them already. I know, so female and males are
similar in size, so there's not really any aggression based
on sex, and there's not really much hierarchy in these groups.
The only aggression they really have is sometimes they will
(42:14):
attack like outsiders, monkeys that aren't in the group, and
it's unknown exactly why or when they do that. So
it's not like they are one hundred percent pacifists, but
they are a very, very surprisingly peaceful species of monkey.
I am upset that they have a bad rap when
they're actually out here just being kind, generous souls. Okay,
(42:39):
what do these This is possibly racist? I don't like it.
Oh yeah, I get yeah, Like I don't know, it's
kind of funny to me calling them hippie monkeys. It's
like kind of insulting. I don't know. But they are, Yeah,
they're they're very sweet species of monkeys. And really interestingly,
(43:02):
during mating periods, female mariquis have been observed to eat
plants that contain isoflavonoids, which can raise the female's estrogen
and decreases her fertility. Ah yeah, but these same monkeys
have also been observed eating plants that contain stig masterol,
(43:25):
which may increase her fertility. So these two plants they
will eat, you know, alternatingly throughout mating periods that can
either increase or decrease their fertility. So this, while this
hasn't been proven, it is possible that these monkeys are
(43:45):
able to control the chance of reproductive success based on
eating these plants. So I think it is something that
would be really really fascinating to see more research on
because it appears like they have the tools to be
able to exert some amount of reproductive control, which, to
(44:06):
be fair, like a lot of animals do. It's just
usually has something to do with biology, like being able
to reject sperm packets or you know, like um, but
with these they might actually be using plants to control
their fertility. That is so smart. Oh my gosh, Oh
(44:28):
my gosh. I had no clue any animal could do this,
but to know that they can do it, you know,
in both directions they get to choose, Uh, that's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah.
And so you know it's like I one of my
pet peeves. Now I don't have any children, but I
have seen these things about like people talking about how
like if you have any medical assistance with like pregnancy
(44:51):
or fertility, or like say you have a C section
rather than giving you know, a quote unquote natural birth,
Like that's how it doesn't count. And that is so
silly to me. It's like, sure, okay, just don't wear glasses, then,
I guess because that's not natural, don't you know? Like
so many like you're wearing clothes, Like what are you
(45:12):
talking about? That? It's not it doesn't count if someone
has medical interventions for pregnancy. Right. People are stingy with
their acknowledgements sometimes, and I'm sure they just want to
chalk it up to like, oh, they're just dumb animals,
they're just eating food, like it doesn't make a difference
(45:33):
when I feel like even animals, even when they're moving
on instinctly, like nothing is happening for just no reason.
It is chaos. But you know, again, people are out
here making choices, and even animals get to make choices,
right Like your dog prefers the crab grass some of
the others. That's what she likes. So you know, I
(45:54):
think it's it's strange and especially given the way we've
seen you know, animals that mimic our way of thinking,
or maybe not mimic, but have similar patterns for example,
like elephants more and they're dead and like raise their
kids and they have like whole protective stances. Like we
know animals have feelings and cognitive thoughts about how they
(46:15):
want to move through the world. And so I think
to deny you know, these animals, they're reproductive rights. Shame
on you world, boo, Yeah, shame on us. We're also
denying ourselves reproductive rights. Hey, there it is. Yeah. And actually,
speaking of elephants, Joel, African elephants have been observed to
(46:38):
possibly exhibit reproductive zoo pharmacognosi, as they will seek out
leaves from the boragin us say no, wait, boragins. Yeah,
I think I got it. Bagginess say trees to induce labor.
So these, these same trees, these same leaves is something
(46:59):
that humans have been using for centuries to induce labor
in folk medicine in many parts of the world where
these breagness say trees exist, And it seems like through
observational evidence that elephants may do the same thing. How
very midwife of them. Yes, I knew elephants are like
a top three animal for me love an elephant, and
(47:23):
so this does not surprise me at all that they
found ways to be there, like that baby is in breach.
We got to induce labor immediately, get them out here.
Please make a great anatomy show. But with elephants, Oh
my god, I'll be here. I would watch that so much.
I mean, Grandma elephant really holding down the foe like
you got your bulls on the outside. They're definitely the
(47:44):
surgeons where they're just all cocky for the reason I
see it. Yeah, no, I mean it is I would
look like Elephant society is so fascinating. First of all,
it's like pretty much a matriarchy, so it is the
female elder female elephants sharing all their knowledge, passing it down.
The males are typically will be the ones that disperse,
(48:08):
so they will leave the group when they are adults
and go off and find a new group of elephants
to like, mate with and such. So the females are
kind of the constant core of a group of elephants,
a pack of elephants, so they will kind of pass
on a lot of parenting skills as well. So you'll
(48:29):
have like these grand grandmas and mom and aunts and stuff,
and they all they often show a lot of interest too.
When an elephant is giving birth, like there will be
a crowd of elephants, including juvenile elephants who have not
had experience with this yet, and it's like they're just
passing all this information along. Often, like the elder elephants
(48:51):
will teach younger mothers, like how they're supposed to take
care of the young elephants and stuff, and kind of
like correct them on how to you know, say the
elephant trips over. It's like, look, this is what you do.
So it is. It is really amazing. I think also
that they seem to have I mean, it's not surprising
to me, given that they seem to have very sophisticated
(49:14):
abilities to understand, like remembering information that is important, like
remembering certain routes that they need to take, or like
if the weather is a certain way, they know to
take a different route in this case, being able to
identify a plant that is potentially helpful to induce labor
when you know they are having perhaps some issues or something.
(49:37):
I think it's it's I think it's very very plausible
that this is totally intentional. And I also think it's
plausible that this is something that they've learned and that
this is something that's passed out as information. I mean,
of course, this is something that would need more observational
studies to kind of confirm. But yeah, I think that
elephants are sophisticated enough that I would I would suspect
(50:00):
that they would be able to pass on information about
like these medicinal plants too. Too. Younger elephants, oh for sure.
And they're so being a lab cooking. Yes, the young
just I don't know, they're so uh they're they. I
(50:20):
also just they's so the wrinkliness of elephants. It's like
they're always wearing pants. I like their little eyes. There's
also they are have boobs like people, like they're one
of the only they do. They're one of the only
animals out there where the females have boobs like human
women do. Most most animals, like their teats are smaller,
(50:45):
less boobuler. But yeah, elephants got big old honkers and
I'm not talking about their trunks. It was shocking the
FaceTime my STI I was like, wait, what, oh my gosh, okay,
and then I wanted to get her bra but I
was like, I bet support from down there is easier
than us trying to balance these things on our chest
(51:07):
for walking around all day. They're like, no, that just
hangs low down there. It's fine, Yeah, nothing, do not
need support. I would like to see someone trying to
fit an elephant for our bra though, that would be yes, please, Yeah,
volunteers should be adorable. I feel like you would need
some structural engineers to figure out how like the tensile
(51:28):
strength for you, an assistance you'll need. There'll be trial
and r you know, trial tests and when we put
on the sides and oh yes, but no bows because
we're over that. Well job. Well, before we go, we've
(51:49):
got to play a little game, and that game is
called the Mystery Animal Sound Game. Every week I play
a mystery animal sound and you the listener, and you
the guests, trying to guess who is squawking and it
can be any animal in the world. So last week's
(52:10):
Mystery Animals sound hint was is there a frog in
your mouth? Or are you just happy to see me?
So here is the sound. No, that's a ad. Don't
worry about that. I was like, what animal was that?
It's an ad for Fanta, which I get now. So Joel,
(52:34):
can you guess who is making that sound. It sounded
like a ghost frog. Wow. I don't know what that is,
but that's what it sounded. I mean. This is sometimes
called a ghost bird of this Yes, this is the
common poe two. It is a bird related to frog
(52:55):
mouth birds and night jars. Congratulation to Auntie B, Grant
W and Joey P. Who all gives correctly. So like
frog mouth birds, they have wide frog like mouths. They
are found in tropical regions of Central and South America.
They hunt insects at night and during the day. They
(53:18):
like to pretend to be a part of a tree,
with their coloring and stiff posture resembling a jagged end
of a tree stump. So they'll kind of like like
sort of put their head in the air and flatten
their bodies out to make themselves look more convincingly like
part of a tree. It's it's very funny, all right,
(53:42):
But yes, unfortunately it is a bird, and it is
one that I think. It's on the creepier side of
birds to me. It's really cute though, like the huge
mouth is funny to me, But I could I could
also see an argument for it being horrifying. I'm not
here for the muppet birds, the giant mouths that could
(54:02):
swallow me whole. All right again, Once these things remember
that they're actually dinosaurs, it's over for us. I yeah,
but see, this is why I'm trying to be on
the side of the birds, so that when that time comes,
they'll use me as like their millet butler. Oh I
like that. I like that. That's a good plan. My
long game is just they know that I respect them,
(54:25):
and so when they become our overlords, I'm gonna just
do what they say. I'm like, okay, mister bird, you
already know I'm afraid. Just tell me what to do
and I'll do it. I don't like it here, It's fine.
You want me to use this toothbrush to give you
little head scratches. I will do that anything you say,
hopefully not my toothbrush. This bird punishment using your toothbrush
(54:50):
to give them scratcheese. All right, now, onto you this
week's mystery animals. Sound the hint This is one peeved, pissed,
particularly provoked pond paddler. Oh did you hear that? I did?
(55:15):
He's an angry fella. So Joel, who do you think
is making that sound. I am going to suggest that
is a vampire pig. Again. Not sure what that is,
(55:37):
but it sounds like a big between like an angry
Jacula and a struggling pig. Interesting vampire pig. That's my vote.
I love it. I love it. Um. Well, maybe next
week we will find out if this is indeed a
poor sign Dracula or something else. If you just think
(56:00):
you know who is making this sound, you can write
to me at Creature feature Pod at gmail dot com. Joel,
thank you so much for coming on the show and
tolerating a few birds here and there. Where can people
find you maybe? Thank you so much for having me back.
And every time I come I faced my fear of
birds and I can less afraid. So I'm grateful for you.
(56:23):
You guys can follow me all over the internet at
Joel Meek. That's Joe L E m O and I
que please do that. Joel is fantastic, And yeah, thank
you so much for coming on. And thank you the
listener for you know, using your ears to listen to it.
(56:44):
I appreciate that, and I also appreciate whatever you leave
a rating or review. I read all the reviews and
they mean so much to me and I really really
do appreciate it when you take a little bit time
out of your date. Tell me what you think of
the podcasts. This is really wonderful and thank you to
the Space Cossacks for their super awesome song. Exo loom
(57:07):
Enough Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
like the one you just heard, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcast, or Higgins, what where have you listen to
your favorite shows? See you next Wednesday.
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