What will the next generation of space telescopes reveal?

Daniel and Jorge talk about the plans for a new set of Great Observatories in space, and what it might show us about the Universe.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hey, Daniel, would you rather our government spend money on
a new space telescope or fifty new paper weights for
the I R s Oh, well, tough one, but I'm
gonna go with space telescope all right? How about a
new telescope or brand new gold play in a toilet
seats for the White House? Wow? How many toilet seats
do they really need? I think we need another telescope?

(00:29):
Or and now, how about a new telescope or a
tax break for Elon Musk. I'm assuming Elon Musk is
not going to build this a telescope, so I'll say
let's keep the money and build our own. How about
a telescope or a new particle collider? Oh, don't ask
me that. Yeah, that's a tough one, right, For some
reason you find it tougher. Can we have both? Maybe

(00:52):
both the task break for Elon Musk and a particle collider.
As long as Elon builds us a particle collider, it's
a deal, an incentive. H. I am more handmade cartoonists

(01:16):
and the creator of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm
a particle physicist and a professor at UC Irvine, and
I will always vote to increase science funding. Oh, I
thought you were going to say you would always vote
for increasing billionaires taxes. If that's what it takes, then yes, Seriously,
I don't understand why we don't multiply our science budgets
by a factor or ten. We could learn so much

(01:37):
about the universe. But it's more than that. It's so
much wasted effort. You know, it's funding season right now,
and so many smart people are sending great ideas to
the government, and the government has to say no to
most of them, even if they're good ideas, because they
just don't have enough money. I guess the problem is
that those things are never on the ballot, right, Like
there's never a resolution or a new men meant about

(02:00):
more science. Yeah, it's pretty rare. You get like a
scientist in Congress, and it's not usually like a wedge issue.
It's further down the list than things like, you know,
reproductive rights or the environment or immigration or something like that. Right,
clearly you and I need to run for Congress, Daniel,
or at least you. I would just ask for more
money for cartoonis. I really don't want to be in Congress.

(02:22):
I just want on Congress. To vote to spend more
money on research. Well, there you go. That's the problem.
Everyone wants change, but nobody wants to be the change
they want to see in the world. All right, I'll
run for Congress. You persuaded me. The universe needs it.
This is the beginnancement. Daniel Whiteson announces is run for
Congress which state? Though? You don't just get to pick

(02:42):
your state. Man, You can't be like, I want to
be a congressman from Florida. Have you not seen how
it's done, Daniel. If you're a celebrity, you get to
pick the state and then you run for Congress. Well,
that's the problem. I'm not a celebrity, and I really
like our congressional representative, Katie Porter from Orange County. She's awesome. Yeah, yeah,
she's great. Well, I guess you'd have to move then,
I guess. So you know, the Katie Porter is also

(03:03):
a professor, you see, Irvine? No way? Really, what is
your teach being awesome? Yeah, I've had over for dinner
at my house. Wow, did you pitch to her your
new particle collider idea to proposing Congress. By the way, Katie,
here's a ten billion dollar ideada I have and for
dessert document that outlines my idea. No, it's the other way.

(03:23):
You don't get dessert unless you're going to vote for
my collider. Oh, I got leverage. Now. I knew Katie
before she was famous, when she was just a law
professor at you see Irvine. Wow. Interesting, And then she
decided to run for Congress. Well there you go. I'm
I'm not sure why what's keeping you back? Daniel? Not
being Katie Porter maybe is what's keeping me back. But

(03:45):
you're Daniel Watson. All right, stay tuned. I want to
ask you for a campaign donation. But anyways, welcome to
our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe and maybe
you run for Congress as well, a production of I
R Radio, in which we vote that everybody should understand
the universe and that we should do everything we can
to explore it. We know that there are deep questions

(04:06):
about the nature of space and time and black holes
in the very beginning of this whole crazy cosmos, and
that those questions have answers, and those answers can be
understood by me and by you and by everybody out
there who is curious about the way the universe works,
how it all comes together in this amazing cosmic quantum

(04:27):
swirl to make our world. Yeah, because while we may
not be able to vote on the laws of the universe,
we can still understand them and marvel at them and
be part of the collective nation of humans who love
and appreciate how the universe works. We do love and
appreciate how the universe works. You're exactly right. And every
time we look out into the universe and we build

(04:48):
a new kind of eyeball to look further or deeper,
or in a new wavelength or in a new kind
of radiation, we always see something new and not just
something like new and boring or new. And it's always like,
oh my gosh, did you see this latest thing that
hub Will discovered, or that new telescope did you see
what it found? It's mind blowing. The universe is filled

(05:10):
with incredible and beautiful things, beautiful when we understand how
it works. Yeah, because it is a really huge universe.
It's about sixty five billion light years across, and so
there's a lot to see, and a lot of it
is really far away. Most of it's really far away,
actually almost all of it. There's nothing nearby sort by definition,

(05:30):
everything that's close to us. It's a tiny fraction of
the universe, which is pretty frustrating. And the stuff that
we can actually explore, you know, that scientists can put
their hands on, is limited to what's here on Earth,
where we can send people and where we can get
like robots to sample stuff and bring it back to us. Fortunately,
we're not limited to only doing science for things we
can touch. We can still understand the universe just by

(05:52):
looking at it. Yeah, and there's a lot to see
out there. There are trillions and trillions of galaxies and
an immeasurable number of stars out there. It potential planets
and maybe life out there for us to explore it,
if only we could get a good look. I like
that new word you just invented, their immeasurable in measurable. Yeah,
means that you can measure it in how big your

(06:14):
pants these days, Daniel, other immeasurable. Ye know. The universe
is delicious and amazing and beautiful, and most of what
it's doing, most of the information that it's screaming at us,
is basically ignored. You know, some crazy thing happened out
there in the universe and photons from its streaked across
the universe for billions of years and then splat, h's

(06:36):
some piece of the sidewalk, and nobody paid attention. Think
about all the stories of cataclysmic events that nobody is
watching just because we don't have enough eyeballs paying attention
to the cosmos, yeah, or good enough eyeballs, because our
eyes can only see so much resolution out there in
the night sky. But fortunately humans have been clever and
we've invented devices that let us see really far away

(06:58):
out there in space. Yeah, huge space based mechanical eyeballs.
That's exactly how we pitched these projects, too comless, that's
the title of the proposal, Huge space based mechanical eyeball.
What's the acronym there, hsb me shove me how you
pronounced it, s hb emy. But they are really marvels.

(07:19):
It's incredible what we've done. And we have ground based
telescopes which are really really huge, and then we have
these space based telescopes which float above the atmosphere and
see things extra crystal clear. Yeah, because that's how humans
started with telescopes down here on Earth, little handheld ones
back in the day of Galileo. But now we've sort
of upgraded not just huge, big giant telescopes here at

(07:42):
the at the top of mountains, but out there in space.
We can now put telescopes in there. They are not
obscured by the atmosphere that blurs our vision of the stars,
and it's a complementary set of programs. Telescopes on the
ground can do things that telescopes in space can't do,
like be almost arbitrarily big. You know, there's the thirty
meter telescope, there's the extremely large telescope, there's the overwhelmingly

(08:05):
large telescope that would be bigger than anything we could
ever launch into space. But then the telescopes in space
obviously have the advantage of not being blurred by the atmosphere.
So it's a wonderful complementary set of science programs. And
on the podcast before we talked about the future of
ground based telescopes, but there's also an exciting future ahead
for space telescopes. Yeah, there are a lot of exciting
new mechanical giant space eyeballs being built and being planned

(08:29):
to launch in the future, and so do they. On
the program, we'll be tackling why will the next generation
of space telescopes show us, like literally shows right, because
that's what telescopes are for. Yeah, they literally will send
us pictures of the universe, the early universe, the distant universe,

(08:51):
all the crazy stuff that's happening out there that we're
basically ignoring right now. Yeah, I guess, Daniel, you know,
space telescopes are nice, but there they are a little
bit more expensive than ground telescopes, right, And that's kind
of the distinction. Like we can make bigger ones down
here because they're a little easier to build big, but
in space, you know, you have to put them in
a rocket and launch them and they have to work.
They do have to work, that's true. So they are

(09:12):
more complicated and they can't be as big, or if
they're gonna be big, they have to be even more
complicated because you have to do things like fold and
then automatically unfold themselves. So it's definitely a different set
of challenges. I don't know if it's more expensive. We
have a whole range of budgets of space telescopes from
the hundreds of millions of dollars to the tens of
billions of dollars and ground telescopes can be almost as expensive.

(09:35):
It's just sort of a question of where you want
to put your money. And something I love is just
saying yes to all of it because they all have
different strengths and can show us different kinds of things
about the universe. Yeah, I think that's what you were
going to say. You were going to say, we have
a whole range of waste to spend money, man, and
they're on they're all our favorite they're all our favorites.
Let's just do more exactly. You know. I think sometimes

(09:57):
people think that we can spend money on signs, or
we can spend money on gold plated toilet seats or
other stuff. But you know, the truth is we can
do both. It's not a limited amount of money. It's
an investment. When you spend money on science, you're investing
in our future and it's going to pay itself back
in terms of technology and understanding and education and economics

(10:18):
like that. Money doesn't go into space. It's not like
if you spend ten billion dollars in a space telescope,
you literally like send ten billion dollars where the bills
into space. You're buying stuff from companies on Earth, employing
people on Earth, so it's money well spent. Yeah, it's
not flushed down the toilet like maybe those toilet seats
you might spend your money on. So we have a

(10:39):
whole bunch of space sl scopes that we have sent
out there into space, or some that are working right
now and giving us amazing images of the universe. But
there's a whole new generation of space telescopes being built
and being planned for the near future to tell us
more about how this beautiful universe works. That's right, And
a lot of folks have heard about the James Web
space Telescope, which just started functioning and it's already giving

(11:00):
us amazing pictures of the universe. So I was wondering
if people were aware of the next few decades plans
for building new eyeballs. So lots of exciting things happening
in the works, and as usually, we were wondering how
many people were aware of these plans for new space
dollars coopes and what they might be able to show us.
So thank you to everybody who volunteered to answer random questions.

(11:21):
If you'd like to participate and you've been holding back,
today is the day that you write to me two
questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com so you can
hear your voice on the podcast. So we ask people
what do you think the next generation of space dollar
scopes will show us. Here's what people had to say.
The next generation of space telescopes, I would hope would
pick up signals hopefully, and maybe we'll get to hear

(11:44):
what's out there better. The next generation of space telescopes
will show us the oldest light in the universe and
unlock the secrets to the beginning of time. I think
with the new generation of space telescopes will be looking
at far away planets and reallex ease and stars in
different ranges of freeb blengths of light, and we'll be

(12:05):
looking forward how old they are or what they have
in them. The next generation of telescopes, I don't know
exactly where they're at right now, but it would be
really cool if the next generations could act like X rays,
like extra machines and kind of detect what the interior
plants look like and what interior I mean. We can't
escape the Solar System, there's no way that it could

(12:26):
zoom up that big, but never no bigger observable universe.
That's my only guess. I really have no idea, but
I have the expectations that they can be more stable,
and they can they can have bigger lenses so we
can point them on the same direction for a longer time,

(12:50):
so they can pick up the faultons individual faultons spread
across time from very distances. I hope the next generation
of space telescope will be able to measure the atmospheric
content of distant planets and tell us whether or not

(13:10):
there might be alien life. Stuff like that will past it,
possibly gravitational waves that are a lot, a lot more
sensitive than the present telescopes for gravitational waves. Perhaps that
I guess they'll be able to show us more from
the past because they'll be able to accumulate more light

(13:35):
that's coming from further away more accurately. All Right, lots
of interesting ideas here. These are great answers. Mostly people
just said more universe. More. Yes, that's basically You've got
to Congress, you say more, give us another ten billion.
We want to do more more universe, please, Well, the

(13:55):
universe is so awesome. Who doesn't want to see the sequel? Right?
It's like you go to see the Universe. No, I
don't want to see the sequel. That means this universe
is over. No, it's never over as long as the
cinematic universe of the universe can continue. Right, the two
Universe three? The You you do? You see You? I
think you may maybe like the second episode, right, okaya continuation? Yes,

(14:19):
all right, let's maybe pitch it for TV instead of features. Exactly,
we wanted infinite number of seasons. That's it's all a
blur now, you know, streaming TV. What's the difference. We
want to stream the excitement of the universe to you,
and we want to do it forever. Actually, maybe Netflix
should be funding science. Oh they have a lot of money.
They should have just one of their shows just be
like Images of the Universe. Yeah, exactly, And we want

(14:41):
to make a new science show. We have kind of
an expensive camera plan. It costs ten billion dollars and
it's in space. Is that okay? Is that within your budget?
They're like only ten billion dollars. Sure we make that
in one month. Just get Kat to Porter to walk
over there and chew them out. I'll set that meeting up,
no problem, that's right, And then withhold dessert until until
she gets the money. I think she can probably hold

(15:03):
out longer than I can. I'm like, all right, fine,
let's have desserve. Don't even do anything for chocolate. But
it is interesting. I think the idea is that the
universe is literally streaming information and content to us all
the time, from all directions, from the far corners of
the universe, right with interesting things that could tell us
a lot about how things work exactly. We know that

(15:24):
there are stories out there, and the universe is telling
us those stories. We're just not tuning in. And all
we need to do is build the right device and
we can listen to those stories and we can unlock secrets.
And what the listeners are talking about is exactly kinds
of things that we can learn new planets or their atmospheres.
We know that there are discoveries waiting out for us
in the distant reaches of the universe, things that have

(15:46):
happened that we had no idea about. We're just waiting
to learn about them. And we have built a pretty
amazing telescope, Daniel, So maybe to start with, maybe run
us through what are some of the existing or previous
space else codes. We feel, like you said, most people
heard of the James Web telescope and maybe the Hubble,
but there have been others. Yeah, there was a golden
age of space telescopes between nine and two thousand three

(16:08):
when they launched four of them, and they call them
the Great Observatories because there's sort of like a complementary set.
Each one can do something different. They're like power Rangers
they come together, or the X Men or something. And
of course, you know, the star of the show is Hubble.
Launched in ten billion dollars. Everybody's heard about it, and
it's beautiful pictures and it made a lot of important
scientific discoveries along the way. You know, it was used

(16:30):
to discover type one a supernova, which we used to
measure the expansion of the universe. It was used here
in our Solar system to take pictures when Shoemaker Levees
smashed into Jupiter. So it's really been an amazing workhorse
for science. But as you say, it's not the only
star of the show. There are three other space telescopes
in the Great Observatories. Yeah, but I guess what the

(16:51):
question is, what was Hubble's superpower? You know, was it
like the Iron Man of the Great observatories. What was
different about it. Hubble had a big mirror, it was
two point four meters across, and it had a broad
range of abilities, so it could see in the optical
and it could also see a little bit into the
ultra violet and a little bit into the infrared, so
it could do a broad range of astronomy. And also

(17:12):
it took pictures that were easily translated into things we
could see with our eyes because it was mostly in
the optical. The other telescopes and the Great observatories were
sort of in different energy ranges that weren't always traditionally visual, right,
because I guess the light that's coming to us from
the universe is in all kinds of wavelength, right, and
all kinds of frequencies, and so these telescoptes have kind

(17:34):
of a range, right, Like they can't see every range
of frequency out there, just like your eyeballs can only
see in the visual. You need different kinds of optics
to see the infrared, which to see the ultra violet,
or to see X rays. So one of my favorite
telescopes is actually the Chandra X ray telescope launch and
it can see as we say, X rays, which are
also photons right there, just wiggles in the electromagnetic field,

(17:57):
but they wiggle much faster because they have higher energy,
and Hubble can't see them. They just passed right through
Hubble the way they pass through your hand. But they
contain a lot of really interesting information about very hot
things in the universe, like discs around black holes. It
had X ray vision, and how did it do that?
If it don't X rays pass through everything. X rays

(18:18):
do pass through almost everything, and so X ray optics
are very, very tricky. You basically can't build a lens
for X rays in the same way you can for
optical light, and you can only like very gently guide them.
So an X ray telescope instead of having lenses as
like many many concentric shells of metal cylinders which gently
guide the X rays, it's much more challenging than like

(18:41):
traditional visual light optics. If you saw an X ray telescope,
you wouldn't even necessarily understand that it was a telescope. Cool,
So I'll say Chandra is the thor of the great observatories,
because I don't know, it comes from a different place,
different plane of existence, maybe, Yeah. And then even further
up the energy range are gamma ray gammeara is of
a different name, but there again just photons. They're just

(19:03):
like super duper high energy photons. And there's a telescope
called the Compton Space Telescope which cost a billion dollars
and launched in and it's studied gamma ray bursts. So
there's some things in the universe to produce very fast,
short lived, very intense bursts of gamma rays, and we
don't really understand it very well. They're called fast gamma

(19:24):
ray bursts. We've done an episode about them, and Compton
was designed to study them. Well. Obviously this one is
the hulk because it's the text gamma rays on the
Great Observatories. But maybe paints a picture what what does
this one look like? Doesn't look like a dish or
LA tube or or a box. So the Compton Telescope
is not really like a telescope. It's more like a

(19:44):
particle physics experiment. Because when particles have this kind of energy,
you can't really do anything to like deflect them or
focus them. All you can do is detect them. And
so this energy what we do is we just try
to capture the photon. We put some material in there
that the photon will mash into and that create a
shower of electrons and positrons, and then we use that

(20:05):
to measure its energy and a little bit its direction,
and so it's more like a particle detector in space
than really a telescope the way you might imagine. That's
amazing because that means it literally comptroom smash, right, just
like the Hulk, just exactly so you throw in the Hulk.
So these are sort of like brute objects the way

(20:26):
you're describing as no subtlety involved. Yeah, yeah, is it
also painted green? Only when it gets mad if you
don't fund it, it gets bigger too. All right, Well,
then what's the last of the four great observatories. The
last one is the Spitzer Space Telescope, which was recently decommissioned.
It went from two thousand three to twenty and we

(20:46):
did a whole episode about the science of Spitzer, which
is really incredible. This saw infrared lights a sort of
the way James Webb does, and that's good for seeing
cold things like planets or the early universe, or things
that are really really far and have been deeply deeply
red shifted cool. And it tests here it was liquid
helium cool too. Yeah, these telescopes have to be very

(21:07):
very cold because things that are warm give off infrared light.
Like me and you and the Earth. We're all glowing
in the infrared. So if you want to see infrared
lighte from distant parts of the universe very faint, you
have to shield yourself somehow from infrared life from everything else. Basically,
the whole universe is glowing brightly with infrared light. The
way to do that is to cool everything down. That's

(21:28):
like why the James Webb has that big sun shield,
for example. And so in this case what they did
is they use liquid helium to cool the things, to
keep it as cold as possible to avoid it generating
the kind of photons it was looking for, right, right,
So it was frozen in time. Clearly, this one's the
Captain America of the Great observatories because it also has
an exotic metal giant shield, right, doesn't it. Yeah, the

(21:51):
mirror is made out of beryllium, which is pretty cool.
Surprise it wasn't called Steve Rogers. But what did this
one tell us about the universe? What we see in
these wavelengths. So in the infrared you can see things
like the oldest galaxies because remember, things that are far
away are moving away from us really quickly, which means
that light from them is red shifted. So even if

(22:13):
a photon was visual when it left that galaxy thirteen
billion years ago, by the time it gets to us,
the expansion of the universe and its relative velocity has
changed the wavelength to be very, very long. So if
you want to see things that are super duper old,
then you have to use infrared light. That's what this
one is really good at. And also if you want
to see things that are close by but aren't bright

(22:34):
enough to glow in the visual, like planets around other stars,
then you have to use infrared light to see those
things directly. Well, it's it's pretty amazing that you need
all these different devices to capture the full range of
the light spectrum, right because there's so much happening all
across the spectrum, you know, from high energy rays to
low low frequency. It's very different what's happening in the

(22:58):
universe at these different wavelengths. If you look at the
night sky in the X ray, you get a very
different picture that if you look at the night sky
in the infrared and that's very helpful. Like using color vision.
If you looked at an apple tree and you look
at it in black and white, to be a lot
harder to see the apples. But if you can distinguish
between the wavelengths of LIGHTE, then you can go right
for the tasty fruit. And it's sort of the same

(23:18):
story here. If we can look at the universe and
lots of different frequencies, we have a much better chance
at discovering interesting stuff. And we need different technologies to
see all these different wavelengths, right, because some of this
information that's coming at you is sort of invisible to
different wavelength right, Like if you don't even have the
right telescope, you would totally miss it. Yeah, some of
the stuff, for example, can't pass through gas and dust,

(23:38):
and other frequencies can and so some things you can
only see in certain wavelengths. Radio telescopes, for example, are
really good at seeing through the gas and dust at
the center of the galaxy. So it's really helpful. So
you really need all these kinds of eyeballs. Well, these
telescope avengers assembled in the nineties and they've been given
us great data all this time. But now I guess

(24:01):
their phase, their cinematic phase should have ended or is ending.
And so there's a new generation of telescopes being planned.
Some pemen have already launched, and so let's get into
this new generation of telescopes. But first let's take a
quick break. All right, we're talking about the new generation

(24:28):
of space telescope standard. We talked about the four great
observatories that launched in the nineties and early two thousands,
and they revealed a lot about the universe, right, they
sure did. It was really a golden age of science.
We learned so much about the universe, and everybody wants
to do it again. They thought, hey, that was a
big success, Let's do it again. Yeah, it's like Avenger's
end Game made a lot of money. Let's introduce a

(24:50):
whole new set of superheroes, some of them streaming exactly.
And while people are very excited about the James Web Telescope,
they were a little bit frustrated about the time scale,
Like it took until twenty one for James Webb to
finally launch. It would be in the planning stages for
years and then delayed for years and years and years,
and the community was a little bit frustrated. You know,

(25:11):
they launched four space telescopes within thirteen years back in
the nineties, why can't they do that again? And so
the feeling is like, let's go for that sort of cadence,
like instead of one every twenty five years, let's try
to launch four all at once. Interesting. So this was
actually like like on purpose, like these duties were all
planned as a slate of new telescopes. It wasn't sort

(25:32):
of like random. No, it's not random. The astronomy community
comes together about every ten years to make plans for
the future, because when you have these big projects, it
can't just be like individual professors writing grants. Nobody writes
an individual grant to the NSF for ten billion dollars.
Since you have to come together as a community and say,
what's the most important science, how do we think we
should do it? It didn't do that work to make

(25:53):
consensus in advance. These are called decadal surveys because they
come out every ten years, and the most recent one
just came out but was a little delayed. But recently
they came out and they proposed a new Great Observatories
program launching four more telescopes over the next couple of
decades and sort of the same pattern as the previous
set of Great Observatories. And I see, and James Webb

(26:17):
was the first one of this late or is or
was sort of grandfather? Did know? James Webb is not
part of the new Great Observatories. It's already in the sky.
And now they want four more in addition to James Webb. Oh,
I see, because James Webb was just sort of a
standalone telescope. Yeah, it was also recommended by a Decado survey.
But now they're feeling like maybe just pitching one telescope

(26:38):
and waiting for it to launch wasn't the right strategy.
They're thinking, let's go bigger. Let's propose four all at
the same time. Yeah, why not more superheroes better? You
really think that's true, Like you think it more superheroes
in a movie make it better. Like if you had
a thousand characters all with their all backstories and strengths
and weaknesses, that would be fun to watch. Yeah, I

(27:00):
am totally enjoying this news latest superheroes that Marvel is
putting out. All right, you can never be too much dessert,
that's right. Well, so what did James Webb. Tell us, like,
what did it have a specialty or is it just
like an all purpose telescope. So James Webb is an
infrared telescope and it has this famous sun shield in
order to keep it cool, and it's sitting out at

(27:21):
the L two lagrange point and it's awesome new step
in lots of ways. It's new technology. It's got a
really big mirror that's segmented. Its folded up to fit
into the rocket and then unfolded when it went out
into space, and so it sees a particular slice of
the spectrum right the infrared spect It's like a successor
to Spitzer. But you know, James Webb won't last forever,

(27:41):
and these things take decades to plan, and so if
you're going to think about the future and you have
to think about what's going to happen post James Webb. Interesting, Yeah, well,
tell us what are the four new telescopes being planned.
So the four new telescopes, one of them is sort
of the successor to Hubble. It's like a general purpose telescope,
and then there's one that specifically for looking for exoplanets,

(28:02):
one in the X ray and another one in the
far infrared and they all look super awesome and have
cool names. Maybe let's start with a one that's a
successor to Hubble. This one is called louve woir l
u v o i R, which of course is an
acronym for large ultra violet optical Infrared surveyor. I'm not

(28:25):
exactly sure how you get louvoir from that or why
it's pronounced in French. Is it from a French consortium
or something. Now these are all NASSA or and s
F American lead programs. Interesting, So what does louvoir means
something in French or where they're just trying to give
it a French flair. I don't think they're hoping to

(28:46):
celebrate with chocolate croissants when this thing goes up. No,
I don't know if there's a French angle on this,
but really it's it's when people pronounce it in the community,
to say louvois. It's a good question, you know. I
actually spoke with one of the scientists involved and she
pronounces it louvoi. I don't think she pronounced it with
the luvoi exact popular pew accent. But yeah, it's got
a little bit of a French connotation. They're interesting. Well,

(29:09):
guessing since the name ultra violet is in it that
it looks at things in the ultra violet, it's actually
gonna look in the ultra violet and the optical and
the infrared. It's kind of a general purpose telescope the
same way that Hubble was. So it's sort of a
broad range, but sitting right there in the optical so
it'll be able to see things that you can see
with your eyes, but of course much much closer. And

(29:29):
the big step up is that the mirror is going
to be much bigger than Hubbles. Hubbles was two point
four meters. This thing is going to be six meters wide,
which means it's going to have to be segmented into
pieces and unfold the way James Webbs did. Wow. Interesting,
And I guess the bigger mirror gives you and not
bigger images. It lets you kind of focus more or
collect more light. It's all about collecting more light. If

(29:51):
you want to see something that's really distant. Those things
don't send many photons. Imagine if you took our son
and you put it billions of light years away, it
would still admit this same number of photons, but you
would see fewer of them because they'd be spreading out
through the universe more closely you are to something, the
more of its photons you see, the further away you are,
the fewer of its photons you see. But if you
have a bigger lens, you can capture more of those photons.

(30:14):
So things that are super duper far away you can
see more easily if you have a bigger aperture to
collect more light. Right, I guess it's like those zoom
lenses right that they're they're huge, right, I mean they
have like a big lens at the at the end. Yeah, exactly,
A bigger aperture in your camera is going to be
more light in keys of like photography here on Earth,
I think you want to balance sometimes like more light

(30:35):
with less light to get focused if things are in motion,
But in space you basically just want the biggest aperture.
You can get an interesting thing about this if you
google it is that it doesn't look like hubble. Hubble
looks like you know, a telescope. It's a big tube.
And that's because there's only two point four meters why
they could sort of fit inside the rocket. This thing
looks more like James Webb. It's got like a big

(30:56):
hexagonal segmented mirror and it's sitting on top of like
a big sheet field. So when you first look at it,
you think it might be an infrared telescope, but it's not.
It's a lot more like Hubble. And you actually got
to talk to one of the scientists that works on it, right,
that's right, there's a bunch of folks involved. And I
talked to Dr Aki Robert she's a scientist at NASA,
and she's really excited about the science that Louve War

(31:17):
is going to do. Great to hear is Dr Roberts
on why we need this telescope? Well, for me, the
best case scenario is that we've find that little dot.
It's blue, we confirm that it's actually orbiting at the
right distance from the start, and then it has about
the right mass and size, and then we take a
spectrum of it. We take the light reflecting out that

(31:39):
we break it up my wavelength and we look for
the molecules in the atmosphere here and we see water, vapor,
we see oxygen, and then we measure the abundances of
the molecules in the atmosphere, because that's what you really
need to do. If you don't actually if you just
detect a molecule, you haven't or even two, you haven't
detected life. You have to actually understand the whole atmosphere.

(31:59):
It's who chemistry. So you need to measure. Will measure
the amounts of the molecules the atmosphere and look at
how much would be produced by non biol you know,
a biotically without biology, and how much would be sunk
without biology. You know, you know, ins and out, sinks
and sources, and if there's too much of something that
shouldn't be there, that's your sort of smoking gun for biology.

(32:22):
You can't you're going to try to explain it with physics.
You'll try to explain it with chemistry. You can't explain
it physics, chemistry, geophysics. Then you turn to the science
left in the building, so which is biology. And frankly,
what would be ideal is if with het spectrum looked
just like the modern Earth, because then we would understand
it really well. But we have prepared ourselves to some

(32:46):
extent with the understanding that the Earth has been inhabited
for most of its history, but it only looked like
the modern Earth for about a third of that time. So,
for example, during the Archaean period early like four billion
years ago, UM, there was no oxygen in our statosphere.
There was tons of lots of methane because the planet
was ruled by the messanogens bacteria that produced methane. Today

(33:10):
they they're still around today. They live in swamps and
the guts of our livestock. And then but as time
went on, with the rise of photosynthesis and green plants,
the oxygen levels started increasing. And so during the Proterozoic period,
which is actually probably the longest period, it was a
little bit of molecular oxygen, but very hard to detect,
not a lot, but there was ozone, even a little

(33:31):
bit of micular oxygen. You get an ozone layer and so,
which is you know, it's a byproduct of molecular oxygen.
So um, during that time, you could see like somewhat
enhanced methane. Probably couldn't see the molecular oxygen, but you
could see ozone. And then finally, eventually the oxygen is
such to such high levels that you can actually you know,

(33:53):
we have the modern Earth with its abundant you know
O two, which we're breathing, and so this it's almost
like there were like three different earths, three different inhabited
earths over the course of its of its history, and we've, uh,
we've designed our hardware with that in mind, you know,
our our personal goal, the team's personal goal was to
be able to tell that the Earth was inhabited at

(34:14):
any time and its inhabited history. Awesome. So this is
going to be looking for exo planets, right planets and
other solar systems out there exactly. One of the things
this will be able to do is to look at
light from those planets. You can see your light reflected
off of those planets from its star. You can also
see light passing through its atmosphere as like you get

(34:36):
a sunrise over that alien world. And from the frequencies
of light that come and the frequencies of light that
don't derive, we'll be able to tell something about the
composition of those atmospheres, like how much C O two
is there, how much oxygen, how much water, how much methane,
And that would be really cool. Yeah, it's amazing. We'll
get like an actual picture of another planet. I mean,
there'll be a little dot, but it's still be like

(34:58):
light directly from that planet exactly. We'll be seeing pale
blue dots from other solar systems. You know that famous
picture of the Earth from really far away where we're
just a tiny blue dot. We're gonna get to see
those dots from other solar system and that's about the
level we might be able to see them, Like we'll
see like a single pixel. I'm gonna be asking questions like, well,
is it blue or is it red? Or is it green?

(35:18):
You know, maybe some future generation of telescopes will be
able to give us a more in depth is further
zoomed in picture, but it would be exciting even to
see these planets as dots. And I think the idea
is that the changing color of them would maybe tell
you a little bit about its atmosphere and whether or
not we could live in it exactly. And this is
really really hard to do, you know, because these planets

(35:39):
are really close to their stars, and the stars are
so much brighter than the planets, so it's really a
huge challenge to try to make this work, you know,
to see something that's so close to something else that's
super duper bright, and what else is it going to
be looking for besides awesome pictures of the universe. So
it's gonna do exoplanet research, it's also going to do

(36:01):
other stuff, Like it's gonna look in our solar system,
you know, the way Hubble study Jupiter and the impact
of comets. We can turn this thing on the moons
in our planets and get like really close up images
of these moons. What's going on on the surface, how
much tectonic activity is there? What about these cry all volcanoes.
Will be able to study the surface of things in

(36:22):
our solar system at crazy detail. If you look at,
for example, what we see from Hubble versus what we
expect to see from Mouvoir, it's like going from a
fuzzball to a crisp picture. Wow, that's awesome, yeah, he said,
And don't think about maybe using telescopes to look at
our own planets, right, And it's amazing that it can
see things super far away and also super close up

(36:44):
and it's really pointable, and that's gonna be really helpful.
You know, for example, if we find something that's headed
towards the Earth and we wanted to like, oh, what
is this thing, let's get a better tracking on it.
We could point our best space telescopes at it and
understand like what is it made out of? How big
is it? Where is it really going? So that could
be really valuable. Cool And I guess a quick question,
how do you point this telescope? Like does it have

(37:05):
little jets or does it actually move the telescoping like
a robot arm? Well, each telescope has a different system
for how to do this. Some of them have little jets,
and they have gyroscopes of course to keep track. It's
really complicated. Some of them are more complex than others
in terms of rotating. But it's important to be able
to point it in different directions because you want to
see things in different parts of the sky. Cool. Well,

(37:25):
I'm gonna call this one like the maybe the Black
Widow of the new slatest superheroes because it's good at
close up fighting and also the long range fighting. Yeah,
and it's going to be operated by Scarlett Johansson. All right,
who else is on the slate of new telescopes? So
the next one is called have X and this one
is looking for habitable exo planets. So I guess that's
why it's called have X and this one is really

(37:48):
dedicated specifically to exoplanet like Louvre is a general purpose one.
It's also really good at exoplanets, but this one is
just like only going to do exoplanets. Awesome, that's great.
Like it it's dedicated and put up there only to
look for other plants that we could live in, right,
or maybe the where there could be aliens. Mmm. It's
gonna do similar signs to what lu War can do,

(38:10):
but it's very different kind of technology. If you google
a picture this thing, it actually has two parts to it.
Floating in space. There's the telescope itself, and then in
front of it there's a star shade. Right, there's like
a circle in front of it that will block the
light of bright suns near their planets so that you
can make out the planet. WHOA, what do you mean.

(38:30):
It's like literally putting your hand up when you're trying
to see something up in the sky. Yeah, if you
want to see an airplane is flying near the sun,
you put your hand up to block the sun. You
can see the airplane better because your eyes can adjust
there not being like filled with light from the sun.
So this has two pieces. The telescope and then this
big circular shield that's going to float in front of
the telescope to block the light from the star so

(38:52):
that you can see the thing next to the star.
But those things are so far away, Like what's the
idea of having such a big bull you know, shade nearby?
You know what I mean? Like cann't you just block
out the sun with your thumb or something. Well, it
depends on the distance, Right, the closer it is to lens,
the smaller it can be. You actually want this thing
to be sort of further away from the telescope to

(39:15):
keep any of the light from the star entering the telescope.
There's two different technologies you can go with. Here what
it's called a corona graph, where it's inside the telescope
and it can be just like a tiny little dot
to block the light from the star. A star shade
is outside the telescope, it's in front of the telescope.
It's actually better because it blocks the light from entering
the telescope at all. And with the chronograph, the light

(39:36):
from that star does enter the telescope and is blocked
partially by the coronograph, but also bounces around a lot,
and so it's more complicated. And so this is a
star shape which you can put in front of the telescope,
and it's kind of beautiful. If you look at pictures
of this thing, it looks sort of awesome. Yeah, it
looks pretty cool. And I like the name star Shade.
That should be the the title of your next sci
fi book. Yeah, it's very cool. And you're right, it's

(39:57):
very hard to do. I mean, just to put some
numbers on it, Like an exo planet that you're trying
to look at is ten billion times dimmer than the
Sun that's next to it on average, and yet it's
super duper close to it. Right, These stars are like
a million times smaller than our sun appears to be.
So you have to be really specific about blocking these things.

(40:18):
And that's one of the challenges here, Like if you
want to turn this telescope and look at a new star,
you have to not just turn the telescope, you also
have to move the star shade and needs like its
own fuel and its own jets. Oh wow. So it's
actually like a separate thing and they're floating together. They're
not connected at all. They're not connected exactly. So this
thing is like really hard to steer. The advantage of

(40:39):
having like a corona graph just like a little shield
inside your telescope is that it's not that complicated. You
turn the telescope, you're turning the coronograph. If you have
a star shade, it's more effective, but it's also much
more cumbersome and like turning it as a big pain. Wow,
you have to like dance together out there in space. Yeah,
it's incredible that they can coordinate that. You know that
these two things can be like exactly the right relative

(41:00):
angles to each other. You can take days or weeks
to turn this thing. And you said it's going to
look for exoplanets, Like, how is it going to do
that better than um, the Black Widow. It's a good question.
These things will have sort of complementary sensitivity. The truth
is that these two proposals were developed independently by different communities,
and now that they decaytal Servey, he said, hey, let's

(41:21):
do both. The two are sort of in touch with
each other and trying to like tweak their proposals so
they move in slightly different directions so that they're more complementary.
Right now, they're sort of overlapping The biggest difference is
that one has a star shade, any other one has
a coronagraph. But they're gonna work on refining these proposals
make them fit together better. Yeah, I guess the star
shade gives it a huge kind of ability to write,

(41:43):
Like it's probably it's really good at looking the plants
that are close to their stars exactly. So that's something
that Louve War can't do. So you really do want
to have both technologies. I mean, I'm just gonna say
yes to everything. Anyway. You want to tell ask code
for every point two meter of of wavelength right exactly,
and so this thing will be greatly be like a

(42:03):
thousand times better than Hubble at studying distant planets and
their atmospheres. Wow, a thousand times that's awesome. So I'm
going to call this one the Captain Marvel of the
New Slate of Superheroes, because you know she's she kind
of has a star logo on her chest. Well, let's
talk about the last two of the New Slate of
space telescopes that are going up there to tell us

(42:25):
more about the universe. But first let's take another quick break.
All right, we're talking about space Superheroes sort of released
a new new giant space mechanical eyeballs, as Daniel calls

(42:50):
the space science Heroes, Yeah, we're sending a whole new
slate of space telescopes out there to look at the
stars and the planets and all the crazy things happening
in the universe. And so we talked about two of them.
Of these new ones, what are the other two? So
the next one is called LYNX, L Y and X
like the Cat, this one has an ex indent because

(43:10):
it's going to be a special X ray telescope. And
it's also named after Galleos Scientific Society Academia de Lynch,
which is an academy of the Lynx, And so I
think that's pretty cool. And this one sort of looks
like a telescope in the sense that it's like a tube, right,
it looks like a tube with two giant ears kind
of which are this some panels? Right? Yeah, it's got

(43:31):
solar panels to power it. But because this one is
an X ray telescope, it doesn't have optics inside of it.
It has thousands of very thin, highly polished segments of
almost pure silicon. They're stacked really tightly like concentric shells,
and so when an X ray photon comes in, they
will like bounce off at a very slight angle, an

(43:51):
X ray it hits a piece of optics directly, will
just pass right through. If it hits at a very
high angle, it'll bounce off and like reflect in the
opposite direction. So these concentric shells will each like give
it a little bit of bending and then it will
focus the light down on the detector at the end
of it, right, And then how does the detector detect
an X ray? Like don't they go through stuff? Is
it a special metal or X rays go through a

(44:12):
lot of stuff, but they don't go through everything. The
reason that you can make a picture using X rays,
for example, is that you have an X ray camera
at the back of it that can detect those X rays. Right,
the X rays that pass through your body hit the camera,
and so you can detect X rays. Is a variety
of technologies, but for example, when X rays hit a
piece of semiconductor, for example, they can like dislodge electrons
and then you can pick those up as a current

(44:34):
sort of in the same way that like a digital
camera works. And what is this one going to be
looking for So this one is an X ray telescope,
and it's a lot like Chandra. It's basically super Chandra.
Like everything that went well for Chandra, they just did
it again and better. So you know, it's bigger and
has more sense detectors, is going to get more light.
And this one, because they can see X rays, can

(44:54):
do things that other telescopes can't. For example, they can
see the formation of black holes. X rays come when
things are really really hot, and when black holes are
forming in the vicinity of them, it's a lot of
tidal forces that are like grinding the gas together in
the gas in the dust, they get really hot and
it makes X rays. So they hope that like we
can try to see ancient supermassive black holes being born

(45:19):
by looking at the X rays from their birth. They're
not being born from supernova, are they, Because these are supermassive.
These are super massive black holes in the hearts of galaxies,
and if you look back in time you can see
maybe when they were born, like billions of years ago.
And so we want to pick up faint X rays
from the centers of those distant galaxies to give us
the clues to like what was the environment in which

(45:40):
these supermassive black holes were formed. Because remember, we still
don't understand how did those black holes get so big
so fast. We see a lot of really really massive
black holes in the hearts of distant galaxies. In our simulations,
we can't make them that big that fast, so we'd
really like to watch them form to understand what's going on.
It's pretty wild. It's the birth of black holes. It's

(46:01):
amazing because I guess in the university, if you want
to look back in time, you just gotta kind of
look further out. And that's why you have to look
at fainter stuff, because it's really far away, and so
these things are really faint and harder to observe, which
is why you need bigger, more sensitive telescopes than we
have before. Cool, what else is it looking for. It's
also going to see things like star mergers. So neutron

(46:22):
stars when they smash into each other, they make all
sorts of great stuff like gold and platinum and uranium
and all the heavy metals. And just before that happens,
just before they slam into each other, they generate a
lot of X rays because they're accelerating really really fast.
And so we hope by looking at those X rays
to understand a little bit better what's going on in
those neutron star mergers. You know, we don't understand what's

(46:44):
inside neutron stars. We can try to study those using
X rays from hotspots on their surface, but then seeing
them merge together and seeing the X rays that come
out is a great way to understand, like, what's going
on inside these neutron stars? How did they actually merge
into a new object? And a lot of them nation
comes only in the X ray cool Well, I guess
the question is like do these talescopes have to know

(47:06):
what they're looking for or can they just kind of
look out into space, you know, get a scene of
all these stars and galaxies and potential things happening, and
then like, oh, here's a black hole being born, or
here are two neutron stars being merged together. Or do
we need to like point them directly at these things.
That's a great question. I love that, and it's a
bit of a challenge because on one hand, you have

(47:28):
questions you want to answer, so you want to point
this heal scope at specific places to answer those questions.
You know, we know something is happening here. Go look.
On the other hand, you want to be open to
new discoveries, so you want to spend some of the
time just looking around. And some of these discoveries historically
have come from those moments, like the Hubble Deep Field,
when they just pointed the hubble deep into space and

(47:48):
left it there for a while to see like what
the most distant galaxies were. That came from the discretionary
time from NASA administrators who just like had a little
bit of time they got to devote the hubble and
they're like, you know what, just pointed in one spot
in the sky for a while and see what comes out.
So sometimes those are the best discoveries of things that
you don't expect. But everybody's going to be competing for

(48:09):
time in these telescopes. You have to bounce those things
a little bit. Yeah, that's kind of how it works, right,
Like you have to as a scientist. If you want
to look through this telescope, you have to like apply
for it, and you get like a certain night of
the year or something, and then you have to be
there to like monitor it, right. You know, with these
space telescopes, you don't actually have to go out there.
But you do have to apply for time, and there's
limited time and lots more people with good ideas than

(48:32):
there is time on these telescopes, and so you have
to compete for it. You wanted to point at your
star or your spot in the sky, you have to
convince people that's a good use of this very expensive
Eyeball right, clearly we need more more superhero Yes, exactly,
you need more, one for every scientist. Sure, let's do it.
Ela Muska, we're waiting for you. I think with what

(48:54):
he paid for twitters share of Twitter, and they could
have bought a new telescope for everyone, Space Twitter. You
should have been space Twitter. There you go. All right, Well,
what's the last of this new slate of telescopes? I mean,
I give the last one the name Lady Thor And
this one, I'm going to guess it's discard at which
so this one is called Origins. And this one's also
an infrared telescope, but unlike James Webb, this one's in

(49:16):
the far infrared. It's like looking at even longer wavelength
than James Webb can do. And they call it origins
because things that are really really far away, like the
very early parts of the universe. That stuff is really
really red shifted, and so you have to study it
in the infrared, right. It's it's like it it didn't
start out as infrared or or super long infrareded but

(49:38):
because the universe is expanding, it's like literally stretching the
light into those frequencies, right exactly, So everything that came
from a long time ago is now red shifted, and
it used to be visible, but now it's red shifted.
Like even the cosmic microwave background radiation. People say it's
the two point seven degrees kelvin. That means that it's
current wavelength is the same as if you had a

(49:58):
gas at that temperature in eating light. But the gas
was actually really really hot when it admitted it was
thousands of degrees kelvin. So the cosmic microwave background radiation
used to be in the X rays or gamma rays,
and now it's gotten red shifted all the way down
to the far infrared right right, it's not just because
it's moving away from us kind of, it's because the
universe is expanding, right, Although there is some new ones

(50:21):
there in gr about what you mean about relative velocities
and is its space expanding or is relative velocities Is
there actually a difference. Have a whole conversation about that
a couple of weeks ago in the podcast. It's a
complicated topic, but this one is going to study some
really cool stuff like the very very early universe. We
talked once about the dark Ages of the universe. What
happened just after the CNB was emitted, that you had

(50:43):
these clouds of hydrogen gas. The universe became neutral and
it was dark, nothing was emitting light. There weren't any
stars yet, and then slowly star started to form because
of gravity, and then you got light created in these
pockets of gas, and so the dark ages ended. And
so that's what they're going to study. They're gonna try
to see the first light from these stars. WHOA, and
I guess you you would see this dark age kind

(51:05):
of as you look out right, like as you look
back in time. By looking further out, you would see
this kind of dip in activity exactly. And we can
see that right because we can see past the dark Ages.
We can see all the way back to the CNB,
the last light emitted when the universe was still hot
and electrically charged. And then it got dark because everything
was neutral. There's just clouds of hydrogen. And then lights

(51:27):
started to emerge again as stars formed, and we'd like
to understand exactly how that happened, because you know, the
first stars were born in clouds of hydrogen, so they
couldn't just like shoot their light across the universe the
way the Sun does. You have to reionize that hydrogen.
And so that's what they'd like to understand, that process
of breaking down those clouds of hydrogen to make the
universe transparent again. So it's looking into dark stuff, just

(51:49):
like the scart which and so I talked to Professor
Kate Sue at the University of Arizona and asked her
what she was excited about for the Origins space telescope.
So here's Dr Sue talking about Deep Origins telescope. So
for me, it's really about how planetform plane information. And
I studied a second spell at this so basically planetaries.

(52:10):
When I call uh planetary system or solar system, I
think about three different things. One is the star. You
have to have a star a sound right as the
heating source. And you have to have planet because it
is a planetary system. So you have giant planet, there
is your planet ice giant. And the third thing is
what I call debris uh minor body astroid comment although saying,

(52:34):
and it's very hard to study the planet around other star,
but it's much easier to study debris around other store
because they provide much bigger surface area, so it's perfect
to use infrared light to study those kind of the
same um So so to me is to resolve the
debris structure around other star, and you can use the

(53:00):
structure to actually trying to pink down where depending might
be because the structure like Astra Belle have a gap,
their distribution have gaps. All those gas influenced by Jupiter
because there's a Jupiter nearby the creating area that is
cha audit, so the smaller body is not stable in

(53:20):
those bridges, so you will see structure. So resolving similar
structure around other stuff and that would be you know,
to me, that would be the most important, saying. That's
where origin has the advantage because it's going to be big.
Depending on what version we can build six m or
nine meter, the resourceing will be much much better than

(53:44):
what we have in the past. All right, pretty cool,
It's pretty cool. You got to talk to a lot
of these scientists. Yeah. You know, the cool thing about
academics is you can just cold email them and say, hey,
I'm excited about Drew Burke. Tell me more about it.
And because they've devoted their life to it, they like
hearing that people are excited about it. So it's not
that hard to get them to talk. Well, they definitely
sound excited and it is pretty exciting, right, I mean,

(54:05):
when are these telescopes going to be flying up there
in space. Well, we're not sure, but they're proposed to
launch in the mid twenties. Like this kind of stuff,
it takes that long to plan these things, to build them,
to get them up there into space. So we hope
that sometime in the middle of the next decade we'll
have this new sequence of great observatories launching out in

(54:26):
the space and giving us these new eyeballs. Yeah, it
sounds like a long time for now, but the time flies,
you know. The next thing, you know, they'll be launching
this thing and you'll see it in the news exactly
and we'll be covering its new discoveries. On season twenty four,
Daniel and Jorge explain the universe still going will be
in our sixties, Daniel wille I'll be red shifted down

(54:48):
in my fifties. That's right. Your waistline will be red
shifted to immeasurable length. I'm counting on length contraction. That's
why I keep moving fast. Although I here will probably
be a lot whider exactly. We'll be great shifted, all right, Well,
I guess pretty exciting stuff. Stay tuned, um, because pretty

(55:09):
soon before you know it, we'll have all these new
eyeballs looking out into the universe telling us what's out
there and giving us a lot more details, sometimes a
thousand times more detailed than we previously have been able
to look at the universe exactly. And something I find
really inspirational is that a lot of the folks working
on these projects will never use it, like they will
probably retire before these things are up there in space.

(55:30):
So they're building these things for you, for the next
generation of astronomers, for folks out there who are ten, twelve, fifteen,
who are listening now, who will be professional astronomers in
fifteen years. You will see data from the ancient universe
because these folks have built this telescope. And when I
talk to them. They were all inspired by the fact
that people before them build hubble and never got to

(55:52):
use it, and they got to do science with it.
Astronomy is just like passing of the bucket from generation
to generation, where they build the device for the next generation. Wow,
that's pretty awesome. So I guess those of you listening,
you have fifteen years to finish your PhD in physics.
Do you think there will be enough? Maybe they'll make
it just just in time. We better stop listening to
podcast and get studied. No, no, keep listening, keep listening

(56:15):
on discourage her listeners. Daniel, this could be part of
your thesis, right, that's right, yeah, exactly, listening to this
podcast is a crucial part of your preparation. That's right.
In fact, if you listen to all three episodes so far,
and Daniel will give you a PhD in podcast listening exactly.
It's not accredited, it doesn't count for anything, but sure

(56:36):
you'll get a PhD in podcast science. Al Right, Well,
it's exciting to know we'll be learning more about the universe.
We hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, See
you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

(56:57):
and Jorge explain the Universe is a production I Heart
Radio or more podcast from my heart Radio. Visit the
i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows. H