Dead in the Water

Catherine and her team use old-fashioned detective work to uncover more details about the murder and to track down possible suspects. They meet with Rusty, owner and publisher of the local newspaper, and attempt to find Jesse, JB and Chris. For more on the case, visit hellandgonepodcast.com

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
School of Humans. Hey, good morning together. I did not
sleep last night. I slept for about an hour and
then I like, we'll grab him. Oh. We've been in
mountain View for about a week now, and I feel

(00:29):
like we've gotten a pretty good grip on the main
facts of the case. We've met Rebecca's sister Danielle and
her dad Larry, and the journalist George Jared, who has
spent countless hours investigating this case. We've also met Dennis Simons,
the lead investigator for the Arkansas State Police. Since he
won't share the case file with us, we're on our

(00:49):
own to piece together exactly what happened and to embed
ourselves in the community to gain people's trust. In September
of two thousand and four, twenty two year old Rebecca
Gould was brutally murdered in a remote area of the
Arkansas Ozarks. Fourteen years later, her killer is still out there.

(01:14):
I've come back to Mountain View with one mission to
get justice for Rebecca. I'm Catherine Townsend, and this is
Helen Gone. It's been a week and it seems like
everyone in town has heard of the case and knows
exactly why we're here. Even the guy who comes in

(01:36):
to fix the hot water heater. Lisia went to Mountain View.
I'm not sure if Rebecca went to Melbourne or she
went to Mountain View. I don't sure it worked together.
It's one of the sonics. I don't know about one
in Melbourne or one in Mountain Deere or something. In news.
He tells us that his daughter Alisia went to school
with Rebecca. He also tells us that his catfish pond
has been connected to three different murders. Yeah, they told

(01:57):
the well, they told the police officers that there was
a body in my pond, so that they come out
and drained it. Well, we drained it, but that didn't
find anything. So why did they Why do you think
the psychic focused on your pond. I've got no idea.
There's a lot of ponds around there, so I've got
no idea. Is it visible from the road and you
know it's off the road broadways. It's pretty weird. And

(02:18):
what what's what's happened to the pond now? Well, right
now it's a golf covered up. Had those who come
out covered up? So it's another psychics conbuggy. Yeah, it's
been twice. When was another killing? That when they stabbed
the boy. But that's they found a knife in the
pond when they drained it that time. This is what
I mean when I say Mountain View is a place
where bad things can happen. For the record, that's one

(02:42):
small catfish pond connected to three different murders. Yeah, I'm
happenings later. Good look, thank you. It's eerie like how
everyone in town seems to have some connection with this case.

(03:04):
You know, either than you one of this potential suspect
that you see who was involved. They knew the victim,
their family, I remember their family, the victim. It's not
even like six degrees of separation. It's like one degree
of separation, do you know what I mean. Alicia went
to school with Rebecca and she knows several of the
other people that have been brought up in connection with
this case. Hi, Alicia, Yeah, Hey is Taylor? Sorry? I

(03:25):
just missed your call. Okay, I figured here. I'm sorry.
I'm kind up. I had to do an inn service
with my past today. Alicia works as a registered nurse
in the area. Well, myn he of the Sonics in
Melbourne and that's where sure then and them too, and

(03:46):
she looked their fun, but not a lot of times
that she went. She was working at Melbourne Sonic. You
don't think sobout what happened to, especially somebody that you
euro up with and you know, and you know, I
was in her sister Daniel. In my opinion, I think

(04:08):
it was a matter of Chelsey and I don't think
it was just one person a ball. There was a
lot going on with that group of people and they
were some of those people are very vindictive, and Chris,
I can't imagine, you know, again, he is the worst

(04:29):
of all of them. Alicia brings up Chris the town
black Sheep. Well, Chris, I don't think Chris would be
close to anybody. He's not a good person. He uh,
he was really involved in a lot of drugs and
just bad stuff. Simmy was Chris. All friends, Siddy and

(04:52):
Chris kind of capture themselves a lot of you know,
unless they were out, like at a part of a year,
you know, something like that was that was other people,
and then they might associate with other people, but they
look pretty private. Cindy was Chris's girlfriend at the time
of the murder. She eventually became his wife. He was
in prison I don't know what he's out, but Alicia

(05:18):
tells me a story that I've heard several times while
researching this case. He ended up getting in trouble. I'm
not sure if somebody off the load and he's got
a lot of truck. You know, he's got me in
trouble for that. But it was, you know, sometime after

(05:38):
that it happened. I don't know, I don't know what
you you know what I can't imagine or Alicia knows
several people in Rebecca's social circle, which centered around the
Melbourne Sonic at the time of her death, and her
insights about Chris and Cindy definitely start to paint a
picture of the people that Rebecca was hanging around with.

(06:01):
These are people that even today people in Mountain View
are afraid of. It's become clear that we have to
get more information on Chris, so we head into town
to the offices of the Stone County Leader, one of
the small town papers that reported on Rebecca's death and

(06:28):
two thousand and four, the big ones over there before
we started splitting them into two. Well, this is super
helpful because it's been hard to find, like, not everything's online,
there's no telling what's there. That case was kind of strange.
She was found in our county, so right, well, it
was like within a stone's throwers. I mean, it's just

(06:52):
right there. And there's also like a lot of connections
because her sister went to high school here. Rebecca's murders
straddled to counties and affected people all over the state.
She hung out and had friends in Mountain View, which
is in Stone County. She also hung out in Melbourne
and at Casey's house. Both of those are in Izard County,

(07:13):
and Rebecca's body was also found in Iszard County. So
the Izard County Sheriff's Department led the investigation until it
was taken over a few days later by the Arkansas
State Police. There was a follow up story to this.
I think they found a story in a follow up
if I remember this scene September twentieth, so she was
reported missing, I believe on the twentieth, and then the
twenty first is probably when it first came out, so

(07:35):
it may not have been until like the twenty seventh,
when you guys would have we probably ran a story
of when she was missing. Oh yeah, here's another one. Yeah, Okay,
it's a real of the homicide. Rusty is the owner
and publisher of the weekly newspaper, The Stone County Leader.
He invites us then to talk about the history of
the town and how he feels it's changed. Do you
know the population just twenty seven hundred. I think populi

(08:00):
the whole county is about twelve thy four hundred. I
believe for the last census. If anything, we've lost a
little population. What do you think that is? We lost
a lot of jobs, We lost a lot of young
people that had to move away to find work. And
the Stone kind of antworks at one time had five
hundred people if you count their mc cali barock Land
and they had about three hundred and fifty here for

(08:21):
almost four hundred year and it's down to twenty five people.
Maybe in a lot of ways, the story Mountain View
is one that's playing out in small towns all across
America's heartland. Jobs have disappeared, drugs including methanopiates, or crisis
that terrors of the town seems we're not really equipped
to be like investigative journalists on something like a murder.

(08:44):
I mean, we had to rely on the police, and
I didn't go to the scene where she was murdered,
but it was a bloody mess, so there was some
kind of a struggle that went on. You know, all
the police are just unanimous in their beliefs that there
was drug involved, so only motive that could come up with,

(09:05):
and they're all kind of involved in drug culture. If
you have moved drugs from the equation, the only crime
we would have here would be domestic violence of some
sort or another, and a lot of that strugg related
money and drugs are kind of tied. You know, I

(09:26):
bulgarized a house to get money from my myth is
that the big problem down here? It has been in
the past. You know, that's a landscape that changes all
the time. And I'm not sure that I'm crying on
you right now, but a couple of years ago, I
was convinced that prescription drugs, primarily opioids, are having to

(09:47):
replaced myth and everything else has the number one problem here.
Over the years, Russy's developed a great relationship with local
law enforcement. He knows what they're thinking. He sort of
speaks in code. He's happy to share, but he's not
going to tell us too much like many other people
in town. You refer to Dennis's huge binder of information

(10:07):
on Rebecca's case. Well, I know what the police are thinking,
you know what the prosecutor's thinking. Anyway, the police thought
they had enough evidence to prosecute, but the prosecutor disagreed.
And if there were indeed more than one people involved
in the murderer, then what they're hoping is somebody were. Well,

(10:29):
the more people that know about what really happened, the
better the eyes of somebody down the road talking. But
aside from that, they still don't have a good enough case,
and without new evidence or additional evidence, they're dead in
the water. These cold cases sometimes get solved by someone
who comes forth and talks about it. The police all

(10:51):
think they know who did it. This is a cold case,
something you could happen, though, And the reason, according to
my theory anyway, is I do not see how one
person could have done that by themselves without being detected somewhere. Now,
they had to have a system or a couple, and

(11:12):
it's almost certainly that they were drugs involved somewhere or another.
With Rusty's references to drugs, multiple people, and the habitual offender,
I feel pretty confident he's referring to Chris and JB.
This is the same theory we keep hearing time and
time again, that Chris killed Rebecca while he was high
on meth and that JB, his friend, helped him clean

(11:34):
up the crime scene. Both Chris and JB have been
questioned extensively by the police, so if we want to
figure out what happened, getting their stories will be key.
But these guys both have criminal records, and I don't
want to reach out to them without finding out exactly
what their relationship was like with Rebecca just before she
was murdered. So we go back to Danielle, Rebecca's sister,

(11:55):
to ask her about their relationship hate Chris. I had
always liked Rebecca for many years, but I isn't sure
if they had seen each other in a long time,
So like liked her as a person or liked her
crush on her kind of thing. He liked her both both,

(12:17):
But I mean he was with Cindy, and I mean
I don't think she'd seen Chris in a long time.
She never had anything to do with them romanical or
nothing like that. But have you talked to Chris at
all over the years since Anita's happened. No, just during

(12:38):
that time a little bit and then since then. No, No,
if Chris was there, to me, he would have rode
with JB d That's the only way of me thinking
that Chris would be there. Yeah, so some people think
that Chris was obsessed with Rebecca. Danielle seems to at

(12:58):
least confirm that he had long standing feelings for her.
I keep coming back to, like, what was Jabi's can
I It wasn't like a main friend or nothing, but
she was friends with him. Danielle said that JB was
Rebecca's source for pot back in the day, and that
she thought Rebecca may have owed him some money. Of course,
I don't think it was just Christian jab. Yeah, if

(13:22):
Chris was involved, Cindy knows, And I think Cindy was there.
Cindy was Chris's girlfriend at the time of the murder
and they've had an on again, off again relationship ever since.
I'm hoping this will end up working our advantage and
that maybe she can give us some new information on Chris,
like I can't imagine like Cindy would have that much
loyally to Chris. Now, yeah, they got married after that,

(13:46):
they're divorced, I think now. But they had a few kids,
I believe, and if she thinks that, like, she could
go away and this might be a good moment for
her to turn on him. I mean, I'll be honest,
I'm scared of these people. Yeah, I don't mention so
much because I'm being recorded, because I'm not scared. I've
talked to Chris before a couple of years back. I

(14:08):
went to see him in Stone County Jail while he
was behind bars on a different charge. But I have
no clue where he is now. We'll be right back.
So I was just calling all the auto parts stores
in Mountain View. That's Sandy. She's part of our research team.

(14:28):
She's helping us to track down possible leads and locations
where Chris and JB might be working. I would and
like I got close to the end of the list
and everybody was just like, nobody here looks here with
that name. I was just asking, Hey, do you JB
or Chris? Are Davey and Chris working today? And then
I got to this guy, I said, are JB and
Chris endday? And he said no, And I was like,
do you know when they'll be in? And he said
hopefully tomorrow morning. I was like, you think both of

(14:50):
them will be in tomorrow and he said yeah, hopefully,
so he like he it sounded like he that they
work there. To me, yeah, well probably JB. I mean
there could be another Chris, I guess y, Yeah, that's
what I was thinking, Like, Chris is such a common name. Yeah,
And I found a couple of app possible addresses for Chris.

(15:11):
I just don't know how reliable they are. And I
also found one number linked with his name, but I
highly doubt that's it's a number. Cool, thank you for that.
That Purple Road, of course, it's Purple Road. That's like
the one bad neighborhood. We could go there in the morning.
Somebody could go there in the morning and just like
bullshit a little bit, ask about a tire prices or something,
just to make sure it's the right Chris. Ex if

(15:32):
we can see that that's Chris and JB right, because
it could be another Chris. Since I did meet Chris
in person a couple of years ago, I don't want
to tip either of them off that I'm looking for them.
So one of our producers drives through town and goes
in pretending to have a flat tire? Good, all right? Yeah,

(15:52):
how you doing? Man? Got flat? Yeah I got it's
a rental car. I'd love to know if you got one.
I'd love to pull a fast one on him. And yeah,
we got one to be a loud we'll get to
you appreciate it. Well, he's not inside, all right, Well

(16:17):
this is a bust. Well yeah, I got a little
spoop balking in there though. Yeah. I tried to look
in and like some other dude that's blowing hair. Yeah,
not him, all right. I mean it's not to say
he doesn't work there, but he wasn't there. Yeah, neither
of them. When we first pulled up, there was a
young guy that from the from him back from behind

(16:39):
looked just like him, and I was like, oh shit,
oh my god, it was maybe it was a son.
Who knows. It was neither of them. Then now the
old guy that owns the place is Charliet like long
white hair. We'll find him. You know, you gotta try stuff.
They ain't good though. Yeah, I mean it's good to
have that checked off our list. Yeah. Whatever. It's It's

(16:59):
also like it gets people comfortable doing, you know, the
more surveillants who do like the easier it Gees. I
talked to someone else who knows Rebecca, my sister's friend, Jesse.
He told me that he saw Rebecca just a few
days before her murder. Jesse, I don't think he's I
don't know if he's in with Chris, but I know
that like he so I know he was really good

(17:20):
friends with Rebecca. Also, I think he might have seen
her like as recently as Friday, like that weekend. That yeah,
he'll probably have a better idea because he's lit forever,
so he'll probably a better idea of like who works
aware And I'm final face I think so. But that's
what I'm just saying is like anyone who you know
who has possibly maybe seen Chris, you know, just to
ask to try to put eyes on So like if Jesse,

(17:42):
which is great because since he's been here and he
lives here, he may have been like, oh, yeah, Chris
does work at CNA tire. I went there the other
day to get a tire and I saw him. Hey,
how you doing? Mah good are you? Jesse? Yeah, you
haven't made Rebecca went to the side class yet her
in school and with pretty good friends. Yeah, whenever I
was last hanging out with her, which is right before

(18:03):
she got murdered, she was staying over there, or she
was actually working a little bit in Sonic at Melbourne,
and she's just starting back to she's going to go
to school, her and her sister Danielle back in Fayetville.
I'm pretty sure y'all had Barry with me. This's ben
years ago. They found her phone or whatever, you know,
and my number was on her forty eight hours from
when she you know, it come up missing. So they

(18:25):
called me and she her car was broken down over
there at her house, at his house, and she got
up with me because my cousin and stuff owns a
salvageyard out about fifteen miles west of Mountain of Mew,
and I was trying to get an alternator rigged up.
I told her that he didn't have one at that time,
you know, closing time, and she said, well, she'd found
one from another friend, which is I think that's how

(18:48):
Chris come involved. He supposedly took an alpnator over there
if Rebecca needed someone to fix her car. Could that
explain what Chris and JB could be at Casey's house
that morning. Well, see this guy named JB B. And
Chris supposedly went over there to work on her car.
That's the last hour. So the only thing I can
maybe think, of course this is just a scenario I've

(19:09):
made up my head, is maybe they went over there
and probably induced that they was going to work on
her car, and whatever happened happened. Then it is just
probably them being all drugged out and thinking one thing
when it really wasn't and they may went over there
and fixed your car and expected payment in that way.
You can't tell, you know what I mean, because these

(19:30):
dudes ain't They're not like us sitting here talking. They's
way different. Jesse's version of events matches what I've heard before,
and I have to take it seriously because he knows.
Chris may be better than anyone I've talked to so far. Yeah,
he's been in drouble his whole life. First time I
ever made him, I was about fifteen and I'm thirty
five now, so about twenty years ago. Down to him. Yeah.

(19:53):
Nick daniels X his dad's names Tim, and Chris lived
with them. Nick is daniels x husband and the father
to her two girls. Nick said he and Chris were
best friends and even others. Literally. Nick's dad legally adopted Chris,
but when Rebecca was murdered, Nick felt Chris was involved
or knew more than he was saying, and they had

(20:14):
a major falling out. They haven't spoken since. Exactly talked
to him. Yeah, I mean, he probably ain't gonna be cooperative. Yeah.
Most of the time people are guilty that shy away
from stuff like that was their afraid. They might say
something that when tramp them his ex girl friend, she
might know where to find me, and she worked right

(20:35):
down in her language, thank you so much. Good love.
Finding JB isn't proving to be any easier. But since
I've been connecting with what seems like half the town
on social media, I find him on Facebook and send
him a message. I decided to be direct. I tell

(20:55):
him I'm investigating Rebecca's murder. I let him know that
I think the cops have him in the frame, but
I think they have it wrong. I need your help,
all right, it's the truth. Later on my phone rings,
it's JB. Like I said, I didn't say Rebecca mysh
those days, and uh, I figured she'd turned out, you know,

(21:15):
hanging out with somebody or something, and then they turned
out that you know, they found her like shovel days later.
I mean, were you hanging out with Chris during that
weekend or or like how did I'm just trying to
figure out how they got you guys involved in this
or said you were involved when I got on a
cab and I don't think I know what come out
and you goes live me well, cause so we had

(21:35):
sort of heard that you were you looking for him?
The next week or a few days later, print went
around telling everybody that I've done name, that I don't
do student shit. That's not what I think. Chris hoping
his name about and said that I did that or
said I didn't do that again, and I'm gonna fucking
up and they believe a Christian state to do it

(21:56):
and get away waited. They believe he did it, and
then they called me to help cover it, and I'm not.
I would have nothing. No, that's not me. I don't
do it. Reacca with my brand. We might not hang
out every day, and U of my brand and mine
are found out. Who don't good I meet out here?
I got none. I asked him if we can meet

(22:17):
in person. He agrees, and I start driving toward Baldnob
to his house. It occurs to me that meeting someone
who the police think could be involved in the murder
in an area with no cell reception may not be
the smartest move I've ever made. And is an investigator,
so I make a judgment call. When he opens the door,
He's friendly and open, and I'm immediately at ease. Now

(22:38):
at that time, though I've got didn't selling the math
and stuff in my eyes, I've never could out with
my life. I bought it from other people and I
resettled it, you know. I mean, that's what I'm good at.
But JB now works on oil pipelines and has cleaned
up his act. However, he's pretty open about his days
as a drug dealer. So I had to say Rebecca
for to talk to her, and I don't know, I've

(23:01):
been a long time. And then she just showed up
at my house that week with and asked for sack weed.
And I didn't keep it at my house, so I
told her, you know, well I don't have any She
knew I did, and I always kept it like hiding
in a ditch or something, you know. Yeah, but uh
I actually had a stashing cooler out of the woods somewhere,

(23:22):
and uh so I told her she had to ride
with me out there, you know, to get it and stuff.
And uh well, I was walking out toward my vehicle
and I've seen some movement in her car. No, you
got something with you and she's like, yeah, uh it
told me, you know it was her boyfriend and dude
from Melbourne and stuff. Well, he can't sit here my

(23:43):
driveway in the car. You know, he's gonna have to
ride woods. And she's like okay, you know, and so
here right wood is that? You know. I don't think
he ever said a word. He just sitting the back seat.
Kevin mouth shut and went after and got to weed,
come back and they got their vehicle left and she
come back to next week. She's coming from wherever she's
living at the time, going to Melbourne to his place

(24:06):
and paid me my money is like, I don't know, fifteen,
twenty bucks, twenty five bucks one at I've heard these
rumors of Rebecca's drug debt, but fifteen or twenty dollars
hardly qualifies as a debt worthy of murdering your friend.
She said she's going to either drop some movies off
for rents and movies and then she's headed to Melbourne
and that was Do you remember if that was that

(24:27):
weekend that she like felt the weekend she before she
was murder day before. I would think it would have
been on like a Thursday or Friday, because because like
the next day I went to Cabot for the weekend. Right.
Cabot is a town on the outskirts of Little Rock.
It's about an hour and a half away, So I'm thinking,
you know, I would have went down there the party

(24:49):
and stuff like that. You know, it probably was a
Friday night when I went down there when I was
a cabbot. I was actually going down Highway five when
going up the big hill there at Graystow, and I
got a call from my wife, well my girlfriend at time,
and she's said, I want to know if i'd heard
of anything about Rebecca. And I was like no. She's like, well,

(25:10):
she's missing and everybody's looking for If you hear anything,
you let somebody know. I said, well, I so we'll
tell them that I've seen her, you know the other
day when she come down. You know, she's supposed to
be heading the Melbourne. It's the last that I heard
anything from her. And when did you start to hear
that like they might be looking for you for some reason?

(25:30):
The cops never never no, well, I mean I guess
I eventually did, but because uh, I think they. I
think they left a note or something at our house
or something anyway to contact them. And then we ended
up going up earlier to the station there in Mountain
View to talk to the state detective have been coming

(25:53):
from and take a lot of detective tests. And then
after that they involved me no more. I think they said, uh, one,
it wasn't that it fail, but it wasn't like that,
you know, it was just passed with flying colors or something,
you know, but they did so that they gave me
one anyway, They told me if they didn't think I
had anything to do with it as far as her dead,

(26:14):
but they knew to Christian front of my house, and
that's why they wanted to talk to me. And they
felt like he went over and done it and then
called me tocome helping clean it up because he was
too dumb to get away with what the hell I'm
about murder? You were cleaning it up, you know what?
I mean, I sell drugs. Yeah, well, and Rebecca was
my friend, so I wasn't you know that was messed up. So,

(26:35):
according to JB, Chris told the cops that JB killed Rebecca,
and I talked to him, I think one time after that,
because I went by a friend's house and they told
me that he was owre telling everybody that I was
the one that did that crap. And I told him
if they see him by guy again, tell him my
name Bonny. Never come out of his mouth again before

(26:58):
I go by punched him in the face. You know.
When JB found out what his former friend had told
the police, they had a major falling out and they
haven't spoken since. I mean, do you think Chris is
capable of doing it? If you had to guess, I mean,
I think he was capable of it. I mean, I
really don't see why he would. I mean because he
always told me that he grew up with her family.
They helped praise him and stuff like that. Chris maintained

(27:23):
very well for somebody that he was a needle. Yeah,
I mean, he didn't just get out there where he's
in a different world, like you know, the first guy
ever saying it was on a needle. He was out
there wreaking the field of rocks. Not only why I say,
Chris dinners if he's just gotten out there, you know,
but everybody made very suspicious to him because why would

(27:44):
he be saying that I did it? You know, there
was a rumorshire about his car. Chris and JB also
have another connection a car. Shortly before the murder, Chris
bought a white Chevy Lumina from JB's girlfriend. This car
was crushed shortly after the murder. About the fact that
like his car got crushed, because I'd heard that, I
went up to auto graveyard and everything, and I know
it was far less fear. I even went to the

(28:06):
auto graveyard to look for the car, but they told
me that it was long gone. Oh I mean, it
did disappear. He bought that car off my life, which
was my girlfriend at the time, and Chris wanted to
bias and she decided a town fly. I don't know,
thirty four hundred dollars she'd like, you know, I can't
even tell you one time I ever seen to drive
my car. He took it somewhere and that's where it

(28:28):
sat unless they got the brakes fixed. On that stuff.
I don't ever see driving a car rooming places. But
the car disappeared, KY wanna know about my DNAVN in
it if there would be any reason because it was
on its way back from Tennessee, that they located it,
and that the trump had blood all in it, and
they wanted to know for any reason my DNA being

(28:51):
it is Some people speculated that Rebecca's body could not
have been on the side of the road for a
week with no one finding it, that her body had
been kept somewhere and later moved to the dump site.
Could the body had been kept in the trunk of
a car My DNA in that car. The only place
that would be would be when I leaned across the
front of that car one time. Maybe some sweater or

(29:13):
hair fell off in the front, but that would be
the only time that the only way my DNA could
be in that car, because I've never wrote because when
she met her met that car didn't have no brasure
or nothing. See it's weird because if they're saying that
they found it in the trunk, had blood in it,
then why don't they have any DNA? I got pulled over.

(29:36):
I don't know, like a week or so after this,
I'd hit a deer within around this time frame, and
I put it photo back of my blazer and I
carried it over to my farm laws. Well I can't
think I mean, it killed a deer, but that I
cannot think of so much as a sin and drop

(29:59):
of blood come off at deer. And I get pulled
over like a week or so after this, and the
cops searched my my vehicle and they can find an
old can that had blood on it. I don't think
I was, you know, I just shiit this deer, you know,
and so they're gonna take it and check it to
safe ashement or not, which I reckon had come out
to be animal bloods. I never heard back from. But

(30:21):
I can't think of any time that where that blood
could have got on that from that deer. And I
got the strangest feeling one night like somebody had put
that in back of my blazer. So I just I
got rope. You know. It just seemed like everybody fun
there at Mace. I'll packed my crap up and I left.

(30:43):
I got out of there. I can just feel set
up coming. And I learned a long time ago, you
don't listen to your gut' you're you know you're messing up.
So after the murder, JB feels like everyone is pointing
their fingers at him, Chris the cops, so he does
what anyone might do. He gets out of town and

(31:03):
moves the way to work in Texas. Eventually he came
back to Arkansas, but he refuses to step foot in
Mountain View. We'll be right back. JB said that Chris

(31:37):
is staying with Cindy right now. We need to see
if we can confirm and address for her to see
if maybe they're extra cars that could be Chris's. I
don't know where Cindy's house is, but she's not hard
to find. She's a waitress at Anglers, the town's only
watering hole. Both Stone and Lizard Counties are dry counties.
The only place where you can buy a drink is

(31:59):
an Angler's restaurant on the White River. They have specials
like fried pickles and catfish and alligator on the men
unite and the owner kept two trout named Buttonwiser and
a temperature controlled tank in the front. You have to
walk through the gas station to get to the restaurant.
It's kind of hard to explain. So I know where
Cindy works, but it's not like I can just go
up and ask her if she murdered someone while I'm

(32:20):
ordering an appetizer. So it looks like it's time for
a stakeout. That night, Chad, Taylor and James head to
see if they can find out where she lives. Go
at dinner at Anglers, and then we'll we'll see if
Cindy's working, and if she is, then said eight to eleven.
Right now. The good thing is is I think she

(32:40):
was the only waitress wearing a black shirt. I think
I may have put down like at least like a
suspected address for her. Oh really, there's some people coming out.
Looks like dudes, but it looks like everyone's kinda a
lot of people leaven Yeah, no, further that way, that
would be helpful. I would just park as far down

(33:00):
as we can, close to that white van. Yeah, this
is a much better man. Oh yeah, because we can
see in the back way now. Yeah, I just saw
her walk by the cook you're the eyes. I'm gonna
get away a car. Yeah, I think we stay back.
I mean, at the very least we find out what
car she drives, go by tomorrow, get the plate grown up.

(33:23):
Maybe there's an address. It's seven. Now what do we
know about her? She's got two kids with Chris eighty three,
and they were together as soon as I mean less

(33:43):
than a year ago. Yeah, yep, just turn nine. That
must be the time everyone leaves. Yep, we got a
light out in the kitchen now, yeah, I mean the
good thing is is like in any direction she goes,
there's not really any like. I mean, she's gonna be

(34:05):
on that road for the next ten miles. Yeah, exactly. Oh,
black shirt, this does look promising. Nice nine twenty she
is knitting in something. Yeah, she's got Oh shit, stay down,
stay down. All right, there I go. She's in the

(34:28):
White Star. She's going right towards Oh no, she's going left.
She's going up towards Mountain View. Yeah. Yeah, let's go.
She's cooking. She's going pretty fast. Ye give my trying
to get my seat back up. Good. Yeah, we gotta

(34:52):
catch up. She probably knows these roads so well. Yeah,
and she's a small just go, go, go go. I'm
going That is a bit ship here, I got eighty
is forty five. Yeah, that looks like a car too.

(35:12):
Is that her? Or is that the truck? That might
be a truck go? But yeah, that's not her, man,
that's the truck. Was that truck behind her? No, the
truck was in front of her. If it was the
red truck, that was our our waitress. Yeh shit, then
that means it's since we turned off, she got the

(35:32):
fuck out of town. Didn't she keep an eye out too,
because like, maybe, shit, she could even live in a
house right off the road. That's true. White car in
that parking Oh shit, that house has a white car
right up front. It sure does. She fucking shook us, dude,
So the stakeout is a bust. We head back to

(35:54):
the cabin to open a bottle of bourbon and update
the murder board with what we know so far. I mean,
JB is the one person that has been like, I
didn't have anything to do with it, and let me
tell you everything I know. I know, yeah he has,
And I'm hopeful that as we talk to some more
of the core people, those names that are floating around,

(36:17):
I'm hopeful that more of them will be like that.
In this whole region, there's a huge drug problem, and
meth does make you do crazy things, and it really
something can start out as a simple robbery and it
just gets ratcheted up so fast as some psychotic, crazy murder.
You know, Chris, I mean everyone one thing everyone says
is that at that time he was really messed up

(36:38):
on drugs. He's a he's a sinister guy. Like he's
not a big guy, but he's got the look in
his eye something about it, like he's a scary guy.
I find him scary. No, he looks a lot tougher
than I actually had imagined. Oh he's tough. He'll fuck
you up in a second. He would, he would, he
would not think twice about hidding any one of us
in the face probably or words. Also, we've got to

(37:02):
just we can't say enough for stress enough. I feel
that once you add meth to the mix, not to
say these people are doing it, but even the potential
for people to be on meth like you're, the situation
can spiral out of control just so fast. I do
think that there's a lot of distrust at this point.
And also they might have gone through this before. I mean,

(37:22):
what JB went through was terrible. He was made to
feel like either we're gonna be charged. He was very
scared and worried. He was so freaked out by this.
And this is a big guy, you know, who's no
stranger to like dealing with the walks. He was dealing
drugs at the time. And this guy left town and
never came back. I mean, that's pretty telling. That's how
that's how freaked out he was. And if he was

(37:43):
that freaked out, then all these people have to be
at least that freaked out because they still live here
and this still could come back on him. But you're right,
that's I know that it's risky, but that's all the
more reason why you want to get out there and
clear your name, because if you don't and you still
live here, then it's just a matter of time. You're
just like waiting for them to shoot, to drop, for
them to charge you with something or something else to
get said. It's just it's just bizarre. What we have

(38:06):
is the fact that we're not the cops. We don't
automatically think everyone's bad and a criminal because they did
some drugs, and we only care about finding who did this.
All right, Well, I guess I should go on before
I drink like a bottle of bourbon without heart evidence,
we're really chasing ghosts. We need to get access to
the autopsy report and really dig into the scientific facts

(38:27):
of the case and talk to some experts to see
if we can clean any information that will help us
determine a potential motive and find the killer. And more importantly,
we have to find Chris. I'm Catherine Townsend and this
is Helen Gone. Hell and Gone is a joint production

(39:03):
between How Stuff Works in School of Humor. It is
written and recorded by me, Catherine Townsend. Taylor Church is
our producer and story editor. Audio editing and design by
Jonathan Sleeve, mix engineer Glenn Mattulo, Audio mixing and love
by Tunewelders. Executive producers Brandon Barr and Els Crowley for

(39:23):
School of Humans and Connell Byrne and Chuck Bryant for
How Stuff Works. Our field producer is James Morrison. Our
researcher is Sandy Klosterman. Themon original score by Ben Solee
available wherever you get your music. To dig into the investigation,
please visit helengonepodcast dot com or follow us on social media.

(39:58):
School of Humans