March 27, 2025 • 35 mins
After Kevin Abel died, and his death was ruled a suicide, Stacie Reeves was scared. Kevin’s friend Jordan said that Stacie told her that Kevin was in serious trouble - that he owed a lot of drug money to people - and that she was planning on talking to police officers about what she knew. One of the officers she spoke with was Jerome LaStraps, an officer Jordan didn't trust.
There’s no evidence that Jerome LaStraps did anything wrong, but police did later call him in for questioning about KK’s Corner, asking what he knew, and when he knew it.
We’re trying to understand all these relationships, because in Calcasieu Parish, they run deep.
Jordan told us about one of her last conversations with Stacie:
"Stacie goes, 'Hey, do you know a Jerome LaStraps?' And I looked at her and I said, 'Yes, I do.' And she said, 'Because I've been talking to him about Kevin's case.' And I said, 'Stacey, you don't need to do that. He's dirty.' She said, 'Well, I know who killed Kevin.' And I said, 'Who?'"
If you have a case you’d like Catherine Townsend to look into, you can reach out to us at our Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
School of Humans.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in
an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come
forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated
by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and
community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and
point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases.
(01:12):
We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven
guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast
is intended to state or imply that anyone who has
not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
After Kevin Abel died and his death was ruled a suicide,
Stacy Reeves was scared. Kevin's friend Jordan, said that Stacy
told her that Kevin was in serious trouble, that he
owed a lot of drug money to people, and that
she was planning on talking to police officers about what
she knew. One of the officers she spoke with was
(01:51):
Jerome the Straps. She also told us she wasn't convinced
that Kevin's death was a suicide.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Think of the funniest person you know and that was Kevin,
always smile and laugh and taking joking, that kind of person.
Then all of a sudden they killed himself, which happened.
The reason I don't think it happened to Kevin wasn't
just because of personality. I believe because of what Stacey
told me. She said that Kevin had gotten some trouble
(02:21):
behind drug money, owed someone drug lay.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
This immediately sent alarm bells off for Jordans, since she
knew about Jerome, and Jordan said that she didn't trust him.
Now there's no evidence that Jerome was straps did anything wrong,
but police did later call him in for questioning about
kk's corners, asking.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
What he knew and when he knew.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
We're trying to understand these relationships because in Calcushy Perish
they run deep.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
She says, hey, do you know what Jerome was strapped?
And I looked at her and I said, yes, I do.
Why And she said because I've been talking to him
about Kevin's case. And I said, Stacy, you don't need
to do that. He's dirty. She said, well, I know
who killed him, and I said who and she said,
Richard McKelvin had him killed. And I grabbed my head,
(03:13):
and I said, did you tell Jerome with strapsus? Jerome
with Straps is a narcotics officer, so anyway, I told
her my exact words, Tours, you need to go buy
a gun and you need to keep it on you
at all times because this isn't going to end good.
I said, Call Jerome. Tell him that you were just
listening to what other people were saying and you were
believing it because you were grieving. And just tell him
(03:36):
that you know you didn't know any of it to
be true. I said, Stacey, please promise me. And that
was it. That was the last words I said.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I'm Catherine Townsend.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast,
Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing
as a small town where murder never happens. I have
received hundreds of messages from people all around the country
asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them,
their families.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And their communities.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
If you have a case you'd like me and my
team to look into, you can reach out to us
at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight
seven four four, six one four or five. That's six seven,
eight seven four four, six' one four or, five or
you can send us a message On instagram At Helen.
Gonpott this Is Helen Gone Murder. Line we've been covering
(05:07):
The Kk's corner case for weeks And i've read every
single article out there about the, case including a lot
from the local, newspaper The American. Press i've seen THE id,
special And i've Seen America's Most. Wanted in my, opinion
there's a lot left out of these reports because after
the initial rumors About Richard, mcalvin who was cleared by,
(05:29):
police pretty much the only suspect ever mentioned in news
reports is twenty nine year Old Tomas. Cisco we're finding
out that even though it was late at night and
the store was, closing there were more people coming Through
Kyk's corner in the early morning hours Of july, sixth
nineteen ninety seven than originally. Thought both before and after
(05:51):
twenty one year Old Marty, lebuff twenty six year Old Stacy,
reeves and.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Fourteen year Old Nicole guildry were brutally.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Murdered police had no clear suspects until after the episode
Of America's Most wanted, aired and they became laser focused
On Thomas. Cisco from what we, know they never found
the other, man the one in the composite. Drawings Tomas
cisco was convicted of all three, murders but following an,
(06:18):
appeal which he, won he got a new. Trial after a,
deal he pleaded guilty to three counts of manslaughter and
was sentenced to ninety years in. Prison he's up for
parole this. Year because the second killer was never, caught
most of the case file is still. Unavailable we did
get some responses to our foyer. Requests we don't have
(06:40):
the entire court transcripts because we were told that the
would cost around thirteen hundred, dollars but we do have
a few, elements including the closing arguments from both sides
and through civil depositions that were given to us by family.
Members we've been trying to piece together the police. Investigation
it turns out there were several suspects who were questioned by.
(07:03):
Police what happened to them and could one of them
have been the second? Killer and what happened to the
physical evidence the hares found on the bodies and the
cigarette that was found in the. Cooler as we said last,
week one of the things that it seemed like everyone
agreed on was the fact That kk's corner seemed like
an inside. Job there were a lot of other people
(07:25):
who were interviewed by. Police one of the things that
police did logically was asked the store's, Owner Kenny, klain
about any disgruntled employees or anyone with a reason to
be angry at him or the. Store one was a
former employee Named Nathaniel. Gobert according to court, docu he
was caught stealing money from the store a few weeks.
(07:46):
Earlier he told police when they questioned, him he admitted
to stealing three hundred and fifty eight dollars from the.
Store buddy said That kenny had given him two weeks
to pay the money.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Back he, did And kenny dropped the.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Charges nathaniel told police that he was banned from the
store and had not been back in since his. Firing
police Asked nathaniel where he was on the night of the.
Killings he said that he was with friends eating pizza
on the evening Of july. Fifth police apparently verified his
alibi And nathaniel passed a polygraph. Test Huey, lyttleton the
(08:19):
insurance investigator who had done his own investigations in The
ellender murders also called people to interview them About Kk's
corner And Hughey lyttleton presented evidence to police, later including
a videotaped interview with a friend Of nathaniel's who claimed
That nathaniel had talked about committing the murders for money
and said that he didn't Like. Stacy according to court,
(08:42):
documents the VC f did talk to these. Friends nathaniel
had an, alibi and apparently police decided that was the
end of.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That it seemed to be another strange dead.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
End Evelyn ubray mentioned in her closing arguments that law
enforcement believed that the killer was someone with intimate knowledge
of the store for several. Reasons one the fact that
the killer had cut the phone. Lines, also the killer
appeared to Know stacey And marty and apparently knew what
time the store. Closed they knew about the video. Surveillance
(09:14):
they knew that the money would be in the. Safe,
also they were able to rob the store right before
the alarm company would be alerted at one. Am the
window when the murder happened is actually pretty. Small according
to information that came out in, Court THE fbi stated
that kk's corner was one of the most heavily trafficked
convenience stores in that. Region there were people coming and
(09:37):
going from the store all. Night one of the store,
Managers Sherwood, carpenter told police he called the store at
about eleven thirty. Pm he said he was chatting To
stacy from then until around eleven forty. Three that's When
stacy told him she needed to hang at the phone
and finish mopping the. Floors, now during this, time witnesses
did see people in the.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Store marty was working at the.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Counter then just a few minutes after, That Virginia johnson
stopped by at around eleven forty FIVE pm to get.
Gas Sherwood carpenter called again at twelve oh six, am
but no one. Answered, now that was inside the, store
but the parking lot outside the store also had its
own group of, regulars even after the store closed at.
(10:20):
Midnight remember That Virginia johnson and her boyfriend drove By
kk's again at around twelve thirty. Am they saw the
red truck with the passenger door open and the black
car with the trunk open still parked at the same
spot Where virginia had noticed them. Earlier by the side
(10:42):
entrance of the. Store minutes after, that there was another
guy who was a friend Of. Marty's he worked At
Little Caesar's. Pizza he drove by at around twelve thirty five.
Am he Noticed marty And stacy's cars there and thought
that was a little bit, odd but figured maybe they
were just closing up later. Something but this person told
police he did not notice a red truck or a black.
(11:04):
Car there were also some men who showed up every
night for their paper. Route the local, newspaper The Late
Charles American, press had a van that would arrive in
the early morning hours to drop papers with the delivery.
Men those men would wait in the kk's parking lot
for that van and then hang out and usually fold
their papers there before starting out on their. Route, now
(11:27):
one of those paper delivery, Guys Jerry, peters told police
that he was waiting to pick up his papers At
kk's between one p fifteen and one thirty. Am he
was parked across the street at The Fairview estates trailer,
park and while he was, there he said that he
saw an Unmarked Share department vehicle also pull into The
Fairview estate's trailer. Park Then jerry said he saw a
(11:50):
white male get out of a Green Eagle, talon A
s forty car with a hatchback that was made By
chrysler And. Mitsubishi jerry said that he saw the man
go over to The Sheriff's department vehicle and then go
back to his own car as the police car pulled
in behind. Him the guy in the police car got
out opened his. Trunk jerry said that he thought the
other guy in The talon also opened his. Trunk he
(12:13):
said they talked, briefly and Then jerry saw that the
guy with The talon slammed his. Trunk In jerry's, words
that man looked visibly. Upset then he got back in
his car and drove, off almost backing into the police
car in the. Process then both cars turned north On
highway fourteen and. Disappeared the man in the Unmarked Sheriff's
(12:34):
department vehicle has never been. Identified what was he doing?
There could he have had something to do with the
killings At kk's corner or could he have known what
was going down that. Night in closing, Arguments Thomas cisco's,
Lawyer evelyn New bray mentioned another potential Suspect Miles. Addison
(12:55):
she pointed out That Miles addison knew the workings of the,
store the surveillance, videos the, videotape That Miles addison Knew
marty And, stacey and that he knew the store. Procedures
at closing, Time evelyn U bray also Mentioned richard mcelvin
and another suspect that the police had. Suggested at one
point she noticed those men's similarities to the composite.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Photo evelyn New bray.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Said that none of these potential suspects had any connection
To Thomas, cisco THOUGH i will point out one possible
connection is the fact that they all did Know Stacy.
Reeves evelyn also highlighted problems With Thomas cisco's. Confessions she
questioned Whether Thomas cisco was really giving information to the
(13:39):
police that only the killer would have, known or just
repeating information that he could have gotten from Watching America's Most.
Wanted we know That Virginia johnson was driving her boyfriend's
black pickup truck that. Night Thomas cisco told police he
saw the witness pull up in a turquoise. Car now
in her closing, Statement evelyn New bray pointed out that
(14:00):
The America's Most wanted re enactment showed the perpetrator pulling
up in a blue, car And Thomas cisco said in
every version of his story that the witness was, white
While Virginia johnson is black And Tomas cisco wasn't the
only person whose memory and Testimony evelyn called. Out under,
(14:21):
Hypnosis Virginia johnson talked about the second man she. Saw
she said that that second man had a rabbit head.
Keychain the rabbit head did not become a rabbit foot until.
Later we've talked about this. Before evelya and New bray
wondered in court whether it could have been a playboy
bunny symbol those were everywhere in the, nineties or something.
(14:42):
Else how did investigators get the change from rabbit's head
to rabbit's. Foot, Also Virginia johnson mentioned seeing the.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Hair on the arms of the.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Witness Tomas cisco has several tattoos on his, arm including a,
dragon Yet Virginia johnson never mentioned a tattoo until the,
lineup when she said that she remembered the second, man
the one she hadn't seen that clearly had tattoos on his.
Hands Virginia johnson said the, Victim Nicole, guidry had hair
that was long in a, ponytail when in, Reality nicole's
(15:17):
hair was four inches.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Long but in The America's Most.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Wanted, episode the re enactment actor Playing nicole had, long
dark hair in a. Ponytail same story With Stacy reeve's.
Outfit stacy was wearing an orange shirt and orange. Shorts
virginia said the shirt was lime green and That stacy
was wearing blue jean shorts that went down to her. Knees,
again that's what the actress Playing stacy wore on THE tv. Show,
(15:42):
basically the defense called into question Whether Virginia johnson actually
remembered what she thought she, remembered or whether it could
have been something she saw ON tv or something that
was suggested to, her even totally unintentionally by police or
by other. People we found out that there were a
lot of inconsistencies In Virginia johnson's. Story in her closing,
(16:04):
Arguments evelyne New bray talked about what she claimed were
flaws in the witness. Identification we mentioned in earlier episodes
that a lot of people in town talked about how
the composite photo looked similar To Richard. Mcalvin but it
turns Out Richard mcalvin was not the only person with
a resemblance to that. Photo evelyn New bray said the
(16:24):
photo resembled other, people including former Kk's corner Employee Miles
adison and another. Man she showed those photos and the
composite drawings side by side in that. Courtroom, meanwhile she
said there were no composite drawings that Resembled Tomas. Cisco
in closing, arguments she taught talked about the difference between
(16:45):
direct evidence like a, witness an indirect or circumstantial. Evidence
to illustrate, that she gave the example of someone seeing
a person come in with a, gun then hearing a,
shot and seeing that.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Person flee the. Scene that would be indirect.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Evidence she said that the case Against Thomas cisco was
entirely circumstantial and the jury was instructed they could not
convict a defendant based on circumstantial evidence unless quote the
facts proved by the evidence exclude every reasonable hypothesis of
innocence end. Quote there was no physical, evidence no scientific,
(17:20):
evidence and no direct evidence Against Tomas. Cisco evely And
wbray also talked about common. Sense she said that this
crime did not make sense from a common sense point
of view. Either she asked a question that a lot
of people have, asked why would someone drive all the
way From New orleans to Rob Kk's, corner one of
the most highly trafficked convenience stores in that.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Area she asked the jury to.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Consider how someone Of Thomas, cisco's as she called, it limited,
intelligence who according to his medical, records had, blackouts and
who did, drugs and who, was according to his own
testimony a lot of the time blacked out on drugs
during this time. Period how someone like that could have
planned a crime that involved intimate knowledge of the store
and left no evidence. Behind Evelyn ubray told the jury
(18:07):
That Thomas cisco would not have had the knowledge of
the store's security systems or the knowledge of how to
cut those phone. Lines and she said none of the
suspects or potential people of interest that the police had
questioned or even, considered had any connection To Thomas. Cisco
the prosecuting, Attorney Rick bryant. Countered he, Said Thomas cisco
was not, naive he was not, dumb he was extremely street,
(18:31):
smart and he absolutely could have had a role in
the murders And Rick bryant asked Why Virginia, johnson the,
witness would have any reason to. Lie Evelyn ubray said
she might not have intentionedly, lied but that memory is
like a tape.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Recorder things can be.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Distorted even if people think their recall is, perfect they
could be dead. Wrong she also talked about the fact
that many of the details of the WITNESS id did
not come out until months after the, murder When Virginia
johnson was. Hypnotized so let's talk about this hypnosis for a.
Minute we did some. Digging we found out the hypnosis
(19:08):
was done by a forensic psychologist named Doctor Michael. Gallis
now Doctor gallis is very well. Known he was the
chief forensic psychologist for The Naval Criminal Investigative services in
two thousand and two when he and some of his
colleagues found out The navy was using unauthorized interrogation techniques
on one of the suspected hijackers from nine to. Eleven
(19:29):
they claimed that Hijacker mohammad Al catani had been deprived
of sleep for twenty eight. Days Doctor gallis was praised
for blowing the whistle about these illegal interrogations that were
happening In Guantanamo, bay but his career has also had
its share of. Controversy in nineteen ninety, nine Doctor gellis
interviewed A naval Officer Petty, Officer Daniel. Kane daniel had
(19:51):
been stationed In. Guam he was supposed to start a
new assignment with THE. Nsa before he accepted that, position
he apparently had to take a routine polygraph.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Test the test was.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Inconclusive daniel ended up being charged with providing classified information
ABOUT us submarine intelligence programs To. Russia SO ncis agents
started Interrogating. Daniel they detained, him which they were allowed to,
do and the questioning sessions lasted.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Between twelve and nineteen.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Hours they did this for twenty nine, days and When
daniel asked for a, lawyer they ignored. Him daniel started
to lose touch with. Reality he told his interrogators that
he was depressed in. Suicidal after about three weeks of,
this he told the agents holding him he wanted to
see a, psychiatrist so that's when they brought in Doctor.
(20:41):
Gellis daniel told Doctor galllis that he couldn't remember committing,
espionage but said Doctor gallis told him the polygraph examination
proved he must have done. Something this obviously wasn't. True
daniel was also told that he had failed the polygraph
test that also wasn't. True the results were. Inconclusive according
to a later, Complaint daniel became extremely distraught during this.
(21:05):
Questioning he grabbed a knife and tried to stab himself
in the. Stomach After Daniel king was eventually, released his
attorney filed an ethics complaint against Doctor gallis with THE,
apa but it was not, accepted and the controversy over
Doctor gallis and over Those guantanamo interrogations continues to this.
Day all of this went down just two years after
(21:28):
the murders at Kk's. Corner i'm telling this story to
illustrate that hypnosis is not some kind of magic.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Bullet it's.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Controversial the success of any interrogation relies heavily on the,
interrogators and we know that there were many different versions
Of Thomas cisco's story, told and many different versions Of Virginia.
Johnson's during the Kk's corner, trial Doctor gellis testified about the.
Hypnosis he said hypnosis was quote nothing more than a
(21:58):
form of relaxation end. Quote he said there is no
research to show that information obtained under hypnosis is. Accurate he,
explained the only way to know for sure was to
independently corroborate that. Information but in the Kk's corner, case
corroborating the evidence was difficult, because as we have been
told over and, over there was no physical. Evidence but
(22:21):
it turned out that wasn't quite. True according to THE fbi,
report Numerous caucasian hairs were found on the, bodies but
none of those hairs were a match For Thomas. Cisco
blood samples were taken from the crime. Scene none of
the blood samples Matched Thomas, cisco and there were only
four latent prints taken from the entire crime, scene but
(22:42):
none of those prints were A machi. Either THE fbi
report also mentioned there were other fibers at the crime,
scene blue green and red carpet type. Fibers those fibers
were taken off all of the. Victims investigators never found
a match to those. Fibers Evelyn ubray stated in court
That Tomas cisco was a chainsmoker and that there was
(23:04):
a cigarette butt found on the floor of the, cooler
but there was no record of that cigarette ever being
processed FOR. Dna she asked why law enforcement did not
test a cigarette that could have been linked to the.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Killer we asked about the.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Evidence we wanted to know whether it could be retested,
today but we're still not sure of the. Status we
don't know if the evidence still exists or what condition it's.
In Lame lebuff believes that it burned in a, fire
but we don't have confirmation of. That if it does
exist and if they still have, it could it be
retested and could that testing lead to another. Suspect At
(23:45):
Thomas sisko's, trial his defense Attorney evelyn U bray was
trying to focus the jury on alternative, suspects and a
lot of people wondered if this case could be connected
to drug deals that had been going down At Kk's.
Corner you may remember from last week that the owner
of the store at the, Time Kenny, klein said that
about a year before the, murders an employee came to
(24:06):
him and told him that several, employees Including Marty lebuff
And Nathaniel, gobert were dealing drugs At Kk's. Corner police
talked to the, Employee Stephen. Viator he said that when
he Told kenny about the alleged drug. Dealing kenny told
him that he should mind his own, business And stephen
said his hours were cut from forty hours a week
(24:27):
down to just a few soon, afterwards But kenny did
tell law enforcement about his employee's. Suspicions and then two,
Officers jerome With straps And jason, mcwright came by to
try to do some undercover. Buys kenny said police told
told him that the undercover buyers had. Failed they were
unable to buy drugs at the, store so life went
(24:49):
on at kk's. Corner after the, murders police talked to
more than one person who said That marty was dealing
marijuana out of kk's, corner and we know From miles
addison statements to police that he was dealing drugs, too including,
COCAINE lsd and pot out of the. Store according to police,
Documents stacey had talked to two officers in the weeks
(25:12):
before the murders about drug dealing in kk's. Corner one
of them Was jerome With. Straps Detective deluge knew That
jerome Was straps worked narcotics for THE Calcashu Paris Sheriff's,
department so he contacted the chief Of detectives There John.
Fryar he asked If stacy had been a confidential informant for.
Anyone John fryar, said to his, Knowledge stacy never provided
(25:35):
intel to any of his. Officers but, later according to court,
Documents jerome With straps said he had talked To stacy
about working under co with The sheriff's. Office he said
she told him about people dealing Kevin abel drugs and
her suspicion That kevin's death was not a. Homicide according
to a statement made By jerome With, straps he Advised
(25:57):
stacy that with two young, daughters undercover work might be
dangerous for. Her he said he told her that if
she had information About kevin's, death she should contact the
investigator in charge of that. Case In february of nineteen ninety,
nine the attorney working on a civil lawsuit Contacted jerome With.
Straps he confirmed police did send an undercover officer in
(26:19):
to make a buy AT. KKs they said that none
of the employees suspected of selling drugs were on duty
at that time and that.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
That's why it didn't.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Work he said they hung around outside the store for
a few nights and didn't see any evidence of drug,
dealing so they suspended the. Operation, Now jerome With straps
had a second. Job he worked security three nights a
week at The kettle restaurant from twelve am to six.
Am erome Said stacy would sometimes come into the restaurant
and talk to. Him she would talk to him About
(26:49):
kevin's drug dealing and her fears For kevin's life and
later for her. Life jerome Said stacy talked to him
three or four times Before kevin's death and two to
three times. Afterward in the weeks before she was, Murdered
jerome Was strapped said in the early morning hours Of july,
six he was on his way to work at The.
Kettle he said he was running, late and he drove
(27:11):
through the kk's.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Corner parking lot at twelve twenty two.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Am he said at that point he noticed the store
looked well, lit like it was open for. Business he
said he remembered thinking that was slightly, unusual but thought
maybe they were staying late because it was a holiday.
Weekend So jerome Was straps was asked why he waited
so long to reveal that he had been in that parking.
Lot he said he didn't really have an answer for
(27:36):
why he had not reported this information to police. Before
he said he thought he might have Told Deputy deluche
about him being in that parking lot at the crucial,
time right around when the murders, happened but that he wasn't.
Sure Sheila thigpen was one Of stacy's best. Friends she
stated during a deposition That kevin owed a lot of
money to, someone possibly as much as five thousand. Dollars
(27:59):
those weren't his only, Debts sheila Said stacy told her
That kevin owed nine to ten thousand dollars to some
other people and that, quote if he didn't get the
money to this guy, soon he was going to be
killed end. Quote she Called kevin, paranoid but LIKE i often,
say paranoid people aren't always. Wrong to get the money
(28:21):
to pay his, Dealers kevin would write a check to kk's,
Corner stacey would cash, it And kevin would give the
drug dealers. Cash stacy believed that someone was following her
in the last weeks of her.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Life according To, sheila the people she.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Was meeting, with a man Named brian and another man
Named Officer, sweeney were talking to her about her suspicions
About kevin's. Death sheila, said, Quote stacey was seeing a
man Named brian because she said she had some evidence
to pinpoint that it Wasn't kevin's. Handwriting she was going
to get the letter Through, brian and then she met
a guy Named Officer sweeney at The kettle one. Night
(28:58):
she said they were going to help her prove That
kevin didn't commit.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Suicide end.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Quote sheila said she was With stacy one night When
stacy met With Officer sweeney at The kettle restaurant Where
jerome was straps and other officers work second. Jobs she
Said stacy went to the back of The kettle by
the poker machines and talked To Officer. Sweeney the police
said they couldn't Find Officer, sweeney BUT i did find
(29:23):
information about An Officer sweeney who was working for The
Lake Charles Police department at the. Time i'm trying to
contact him to see if he is the same officer
Who sheila saw meeting With. Stacy sheila said That stacy
told Her Miles addison was dealing marijuana out of the
store and That stacey bought weed from. Him she said
she personally Witness stacy filling out a, check Signing kevin's
(29:46):
name to it and collecting the money from Kk's sheila
also Said stacy talked to her about people with drug
code Names, Ice, robo and Kool, aid but she said
she wasn't sure who any of these people. Were we've
had several people revealed to us who they believed to
be the identity Of. Ice were working to verify, it
(30:07):
But i'm not gonna. Lie it's hard to verify anything
because a lot of people who were potential witnesses have
died or left the, saint and the ones who were
left behind are. Scared Tracy, reeves one Of Stacy reeves's twin,
daughters died in twenty twenty. One Chad, reeves the sole
(30:28):
witness To Kevin abel's, death has also passed. Away according
to The Lake Charles, Police chad was living with his,
aunt sixty eight year Old Mary Jane. CASEY a family
member got concerned On july, seventeenth twenty, nineteen when they
couldn't reach Either chad Or Mary, jane so they called
for a welfare check at their. Home when officers arrived
(30:49):
at the, scene they found the bodies Of Mary jane And. Chad,
later a spokesperson for The Late Charles Police department said
they believe the night before the welfare, Check chad shot
his aunt with a shotgun and then turned the gun on.
Himself the killings were ruled a murder, suicide and the
city attorney.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Told a local news station the case had been.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Closed as we said last, Week Thomas cisco was sentenced
to ninety years in. Prison his parole was rescinded in
twenty twenty, three and he is still incarcerated In, Angola.
Louisiana according to the latest INFORMATION i can, find he's
next eligible for parole this. Year in twenty twenty, FIVE
i Wrote Thomas cisco a letter AND i have been
(31:33):
in contact with his, sister so IF i am able
to talk to, HIM i will keep you all. Updated
The Violent Crimes Task force Of Calkashi perish was disbanded
three years after The Kk's corner murders in two. Thousand
that was the same year That Deputy, deluge who headed
up the, investigation moved. On in two, thousand he became
(31:54):
the chief of police In, Jennings, louisiana a town about
thirty seven miles east down the It. In while working In,
Jennings Deputy deluge faced a sexual harassment. Scandal according to
the Book murder in The, bayou he was accused of
forcing a female employee to make a video of herself
getting her nipple, piers and then of showing that video
(32:15):
to work. Colleagues in two thousand and, Three Deputy deluche
resigned from The Jennings Police. Department he later reportedly worked
for another police. Department Sheriff Wayne mcalvin is now in
his mid. Eighties we have been told he is not
in good. Health his, Son Richard, mcalvin is a chiropractor In.
Louisiana according to the latest online RECORDS i can, find
(32:39):
it seems as Though Miles addison has moved away from
The Lake charles. Area he had a criminal, record including
some drug, charges but was pardoned by the governor in twenty.
Sixteen David, freeman the drug dealer Who kevin able owed money,
to was arrested in connection With kevin's, death but later.
(33:01):
Released he appears to be currently incarcerated In. Louisiana Laine,
Lebuff marty's, brother continues to fight for. Answers he posts
regularly on The facebook page Remembering Kk's.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Corner twenty five years, later the former.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Owner Of, Kk's Kenny, klin told us that for, him
the murders changed, everything and it seems like for a
lot of people in this, case the events of their
entire lives can be divided into two, parts before the
murders At Kk's corner and everything after a few weeks
(33:38):
after the, Murders Kenny klin sold the. Store he told
us he started a long care, business and he said
he's never looked.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
Back when you're in the middle of, it LIKE i,
am you hear so much you start, Thinking, okay is
this tied? Together that tied? Together and this is just
very personal for me BECAUSE i like to watch this
crime stuff ON. TV i kind of believe in conspiracy,
theories you know that kind of. Crap certainly doesn't surprise
me if it's something like. That but there, AGAIN i
can't prove. IT i can't prove, It and AGAIN i
(34:08):
don't want to jump out there and accuse someone BECAUSE i,
mean you, KNOW i used to have to come home
and my wife KNOW i heard somebody in the grocery
store saying that you, know you knew they were selling
drugs and you were getting a cut of it and
you know all that kind of, crap And i'm, like,
well you know, what sweet. Are we got out of
the store BECAUSE i just couldn't stand to go back in,
there AND i opened up lawn service and started cutting
grass in a hundred degree. HEAT i, REALLY i just
want to tell, you from the bottom of my, HEART
(34:28):
i appreciate what y'all were. Doing there's two THINGS i
want to know BEFORE i. Die number one is exactly
what happened To Kk's. Corner number two is who really
Killed JOHN. F. Kennedy so if y'all configure that that
first one, Out i'd be very very appreciative For i'd
go to my. Grave i'm sixty three years. OLD i
sure like to know BEFORE i.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Deserve law enforcements say they are still actively investigating The
Kk's corner murders because the second killer was never. Caught
police have asked anyone who has information about the killings
to contact The Calcashue Parish sheriff's office at three three
seven four nine one three six, five or they can
(35:04):
call Crime stoppers anonymously at three three seven four three
nine two two two. Two I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is
Helen Gone Murder. Line Helen Gone Murder line is a
production Of school Of humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written
and narrated by Me Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Watts special thanks To Amy.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Tubbs for her research assistants And James wheaton for legal.
Review noah camer mixed and scored this. Episode our theme
song is By Ben. Salep executive producers Are Virginia, Prescott Brandon,
barr and. L. C. Crowley listen To Helen gone ad
free by subscribing to The iHeart True Crime plus channel
On Apple. Podcasts if you were interested in seeing documents
(35:47):
and materials from the, case you can follow the show
On instagram At hell and. Gonepod if you have a
case you'd like me and my team to look, into
you can reach out to us at Our hell And
Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four four
six one four five at six seven eight seven four
four six one four.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Five school Of humans
School of Humans.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in
an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come
forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated
by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and
community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and
point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases.
(01:12):
We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven
guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast
is intended to state or imply that anyone who has
not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
After Kevin Abel died and his death was ruled a suicide,
Stacy Reeves was scared. Kevin's friend Jordan, said that Stacy
told her that Kevin was in serious trouble, that he
owed a lot of drug money to people, and that
she was planning on talking to police officers about what
she knew. One of the officers she spoke with was
(01:51):
Jerome the Straps. She also told us she wasn't convinced
that Kevin's death was a suicide.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Think of the funniest person you know and that was Kevin,
always smile and laugh and taking joking, that kind of person.
Then all of a sudden they killed himself, which happened.
The reason I don't think it happened to Kevin wasn't
just because of personality. I believe because of what Stacey
told me. She said that Kevin had gotten some trouble
(02:21):
behind drug money, owed someone drug lay.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
This immediately sent alarm bells off for Jordans, since she
knew about Jerome, and Jordan said that she didn't trust him.
Now there's no evidence that Jerome was straps did anything wrong,
but police did later call him in for questioning about
kk's corners, asking.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
What he knew and when he knew.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
We're trying to understand these relationships because in Calcushy Perish
they run deep.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
She says, hey, do you know what Jerome was strapped?
And I looked at her and I said, yes, I do.
Why And she said because I've been talking to him
about Kevin's case. And I said, Stacy, you don't need
to do that. He's dirty. She said, well, I know
who killed him, and I said who and she said,
Richard McKelvin had him killed. And I grabbed my head,
(03:13):
and I said, did you tell Jerome with strapsus? Jerome
with Straps is a narcotics officer, so anyway, I told
her my exact words, Tours, you need to go buy
a gun and you need to keep it on you
at all times because this isn't going to end good.
I said, Call Jerome. Tell him that you were just
listening to what other people were saying and you were
believing it because you were grieving. And just tell him
(03:36):
that you know you didn't know any of it to
be true. I said, Stacey, please promise me. And that
was it. That was the last words I said.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I'm Catherine Townsend.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast,
Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing
as a small town where murder never happens. I have
received hundreds of messages from people all around the country
asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them,
their families.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And their communities.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
If you have a case you'd like me and my
team to look into, you can reach out to us
at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight
seven four four, six one four or five. That's six seven,
eight seven four four, six' one four or, five or
you can send us a message On instagram At Helen.
Gonpott this Is Helen Gone Murder. Line we've been covering
(05:07):
The Kk's corner case for weeks And i've read every
single article out there about the, case including a lot
from the local, newspaper The American. Press i've seen THE id,
special And i've Seen America's Most. Wanted in my, opinion
there's a lot left out of these reports because after
the initial rumors About Richard, mcalvin who was cleared by,
(05:29):
police pretty much the only suspect ever mentioned in news
reports is twenty nine year Old Tomas. Cisco we're finding
out that even though it was late at night and
the store was, closing there were more people coming Through
Kyk's corner in the early morning hours Of july, sixth
nineteen ninety seven than originally. Thought both before and after
(05:51):
twenty one year Old Marty, lebuff twenty six year Old Stacy,
reeves and.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Fourteen year Old Nicole guildry were brutally.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Murdered police had no clear suspects until after the episode
Of America's Most wanted, aired and they became laser focused
On Thomas. Cisco from what we, know they never found
the other, man the one in the composite. Drawings Tomas
cisco was convicted of all three, murders but following an,
(06:18):
appeal which he, won he got a new. Trial after a,
deal he pleaded guilty to three counts of manslaughter and
was sentenced to ninety years in. Prison he's up for
parole this. Year because the second killer was never, caught
most of the case file is still. Unavailable we did
get some responses to our foyer. Requests we don't have
(06:40):
the entire court transcripts because we were told that the
would cost around thirteen hundred, dollars but we do have
a few, elements including the closing arguments from both sides
and through civil depositions that were given to us by family.
Members we've been trying to piece together the police. Investigation
it turns out there were several suspects who were questioned by.
(07:03):
Police what happened to them and could one of them
have been the second? Killer and what happened to the
physical evidence the hares found on the bodies and the
cigarette that was found in the. Cooler as we said last,
week one of the things that it seemed like everyone
agreed on was the fact That kk's corner seemed like
an inside. Job there were a lot of other people
(07:25):
who were interviewed by. Police one of the things that
police did logically was asked the store's, Owner Kenny, klain
about any disgruntled employees or anyone with a reason to
be angry at him or the. Store one was a
former employee Named Nathaniel. Gobert according to court, docu he
was caught stealing money from the store a few weeks.
(07:46):
Earlier he told police when they questioned, him he admitted
to stealing three hundred and fifty eight dollars from the.
Store buddy said That kenny had given him two weeks
to pay the money.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Back he, did And kenny dropped the.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Charges nathaniel told police that he was banned from the
store and had not been back in since his. Firing
police Asked nathaniel where he was on the night of the.
Killings he said that he was with friends eating pizza
on the evening Of july. Fifth police apparently verified his
alibi And nathaniel passed a polygraph. Test Huey, lyttleton the
(08:19):
insurance investigator who had done his own investigations in The
ellender murders also called people to interview them About Kk's
corner And Hughey lyttleton presented evidence to police, later including
a videotaped interview with a friend Of nathaniel's who claimed
That nathaniel had talked about committing the murders for money
and said that he didn't Like. Stacy according to court,
(08:42):
documents the VC f did talk to these. Friends nathaniel
had an, alibi and apparently police decided that was the
end of.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That it seemed to be another strange dead.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
End Evelyn ubray mentioned in her closing arguments that law
enforcement believed that the killer was someone with intimate knowledge
of the store for several. Reasons one the fact that
the killer had cut the phone. Lines, also the killer
appeared to Know stacey And marty and apparently knew what
time the store. Closed they knew about the video. Surveillance
(09:14):
they knew that the money would be in the. Safe,
also they were able to rob the store right before
the alarm company would be alerted at one. Am the
window when the murder happened is actually pretty. Small according
to information that came out in, Court THE fbi stated
that kk's corner was one of the most heavily trafficked
convenience stores in that. Region there were people coming and
(09:37):
going from the store all. Night one of the store,
Managers Sherwood, carpenter told police he called the store at
about eleven thirty. Pm he said he was chatting To
stacy from then until around eleven forty. Three that's When
stacy told him she needed to hang at the phone
and finish mopping the. Floors, now during this, time witnesses
did see people in the.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Store marty was working at the.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Counter then just a few minutes after, That Virginia johnson
stopped by at around eleven forty FIVE pm to get.
Gas Sherwood carpenter called again at twelve oh six, am
but no one. Answered, now that was inside the, store
but the parking lot outside the store also had its
own group of, regulars even after the store closed at.
(10:20):
Midnight remember That Virginia johnson and her boyfriend drove By
kk's again at around twelve thirty. Am they saw the
red truck with the passenger door open and the black
car with the trunk open still parked at the same
spot Where virginia had noticed them. Earlier by the side
(10:42):
entrance of the. Store minutes after, that there was another
guy who was a friend Of. Marty's he worked At
Little Caesar's. Pizza he drove by at around twelve thirty five.
Am he Noticed marty And stacy's cars there and thought
that was a little bit, odd but figured maybe they
were just closing up later. Something but this person told
police he did not notice a red truck or a black.
(11:04):
Car there were also some men who showed up every
night for their paper. Route the local, newspaper The Late
Charles American, press had a van that would arrive in
the early morning hours to drop papers with the delivery.
Men those men would wait in the kk's parking lot
for that van and then hang out and usually fold
their papers there before starting out on their. Route, now
(11:27):
one of those paper delivery, Guys Jerry, peters told police
that he was waiting to pick up his papers At
kk's between one p fifteen and one thirty. Am he
was parked across the street at The Fairview estates trailer,
park and while he was, there he said that he
saw an Unmarked Share department vehicle also pull into The
Fairview estate's trailer. Park Then jerry said he saw a
(11:50):
white male get out of a Green Eagle, talon A
s forty car with a hatchback that was made By
chrysler And. Mitsubishi jerry said that he saw the man
go over to The Sheriff's department vehicle and then go
back to his own car as the police car pulled
in behind. Him the guy in the police car got
out opened his. Trunk jerry said that he thought the
other guy in The talon also opened his. Trunk he
(12:13):
said they talked, briefly and Then jerry saw that the
guy with The talon slammed his. Trunk In jerry's, words
that man looked visibly. Upset then he got back in
his car and drove, off almost backing into the police
car in the. Process then both cars turned north On
highway fourteen and. Disappeared the man in the Unmarked Sheriff's
(12:34):
department vehicle has never been. Identified what was he doing?
There could he have had something to do with the
killings At kk's corner or could he have known what
was going down that. Night in closing, Arguments Thomas cisco's,
Lawyer evelyn New bray mentioned another potential Suspect Miles. Addison
(12:55):
she pointed out That Miles addison knew the workings of the,
store the surveillance, videos the, videotape That Miles addison Knew
marty And, stacey and that he knew the store. Procedures
at closing, Time evelyn U bray also Mentioned richard mcelvin
and another suspect that the police had. Suggested at one
point she noticed those men's similarities to the composite.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Photo evelyn New bray.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Said that none of these potential suspects had any connection
To Thomas, cisco THOUGH i will point out one possible
connection is the fact that they all did Know Stacy.
Reeves evelyn also highlighted problems With Thomas cisco's. Confessions she
questioned Whether Thomas cisco was really giving information to the
(13:39):
police that only the killer would have, known or just
repeating information that he could have gotten from Watching America's Most.
Wanted we know That Virginia johnson was driving her boyfriend's
black pickup truck that. Night Thomas cisco told police he
saw the witness pull up in a turquoise. Car now
in her closing, Statement evelyn New bray pointed out that
(14:00):
The America's Most wanted re enactment showed the perpetrator pulling
up in a blue, car And Thomas cisco said in
every version of his story that the witness was, white
While Virginia johnson is black And Tomas cisco wasn't the
only person whose memory and Testimony evelyn called. Out under,
(14:21):
Hypnosis Virginia johnson talked about the second man she. Saw
she said that that second man had a rabbit head.
Keychain the rabbit head did not become a rabbit foot until.
Later we've talked about this. Before evelya and New bray
wondered in court whether it could have been a playboy
bunny symbol those were everywhere in the, nineties or something.
(14:42):
Else how did investigators get the change from rabbit's head
to rabbit's. Foot, Also Virginia johnson mentioned seeing the.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Hair on the arms of the.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Witness Tomas cisco has several tattoos on his, arm including a,
dragon Yet Virginia johnson never mentioned a tattoo until the,
lineup when she said that she remembered the second, man
the one she hadn't seen that clearly had tattoos on his.
Hands Virginia johnson said the, Victim Nicole, guidry had hair
that was long in a, ponytail when in, Reality nicole's
(15:17):
hair was four inches.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Long but in The America's Most.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Wanted, episode the re enactment actor Playing nicole had, long
dark hair in a. Ponytail same story With Stacy reeve's.
Outfit stacy was wearing an orange shirt and orange. Shorts
virginia said the shirt was lime green and That stacy
was wearing blue jean shorts that went down to her. Knees,
again that's what the actress Playing stacy wore on THE tv. Show,
(15:42):
basically the defense called into question Whether Virginia johnson actually
remembered what she thought she, remembered or whether it could
have been something she saw ON tv or something that
was suggested to, her even totally unintentionally by police or
by other. People we found out that there were a
lot of inconsistencies In Virginia johnson's. Story in her closing,
(16:04):
Arguments evelyne New bray talked about what she claimed were
flaws in the witness. Identification we mentioned in earlier episodes
that a lot of people in town talked about how
the composite photo looked similar To Richard. Mcalvin but it
turns Out Richard mcalvin was not the only person with
a resemblance to that. Photo evelyn New bray said the
(16:24):
photo resembled other, people including former Kk's corner Employee Miles
adison and another. Man she showed those photos and the
composite drawings side by side in that. Courtroom, meanwhile she
said there were no composite drawings that Resembled Tomas. Cisco
in closing, arguments she taught talked about the difference between
(16:45):
direct evidence like a, witness an indirect or circumstantial. Evidence
to illustrate, that she gave the example of someone seeing
a person come in with a, gun then hearing a,
shot and seeing that.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Person flee the. Scene that would be indirect.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Evidence she said that the case Against Thomas cisco was
entirely circumstantial and the jury was instructed they could not
convict a defendant based on circumstantial evidence unless quote the
facts proved by the evidence exclude every reasonable hypothesis of
innocence end. Quote there was no physical, evidence no scientific,
(17:20):
evidence and no direct evidence Against Tomas. Cisco evely And
wbray also talked about common. Sense she said that this
crime did not make sense from a common sense point
of view. Either she asked a question that a lot
of people have, asked why would someone drive all the
way From New orleans to Rob Kk's, corner one of
the most highly trafficked convenience stores in that.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Area she asked the jury to.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Consider how someone Of Thomas, cisco's as she called, it limited,
intelligence who according to his medical, records had, blackouts and
who did, drugs and who, was according to his own
testimony a lot of the time blacked out on drugs
during this time. Period how someone like that could have
planned a crime that involved intimate knowledge of the store
and left no evidence. Behind Evelyn ubray told the jury
(18:07):
That Thomas cisco would not have had the knowledge of
the store's security systems or the knowledge of how to
cut those phone. Lines and she said none of the
suspects or potential people of interest that the police had
questioned or even, considered had any connection To Thomas. Cisco
the prosecuting, Attorney Rick bryant. Countered he, Said Thomas cisco
was not, naive he was not, dumb he was extremely street,
(18:31):
smart and he absolutely could have had a role in
the murders And Rick bryant asked Why Virginia, johnson the,
witness would have any reason to. Lie Evelyn ubray said
she might not have intentionedly, lied but that memory is
like a tape.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Recorder things can be.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Distorted even if people think their recall is, perfect they
could be dead. Wrong she also talked about the fact
that many of the details of the WITNESS id did
not come out until months after the, murder When Virginia
johnson was. Hypnotized so let's talk about this hypnosis for a.
Minute we did some. Digging we found out the hypnosis
(19:08):
was done by a forensic psychologist named Doctor Michael. Gallis
now Doctor gallis is very well. Known he was the
chief forensic psychologist for The Naval Criminal Investigative services in
two thousand and two when he and some of his
colleagues found out The navy was using unauthorized interrogation techniques
on one of the suspected hijackers from nine to. Eleven
(19:29):
they claimed that Hijacker mohammad Al catani had been deprived
of sleep for twenty eight. Days Doctor gallis was praised
for blowing the whistle about these illegal interrogations that were
happening In Guantanamo, bay but his career has also had
its share of. Controversy in nineteen ninety, nine Doctor gellis
interviewed A naval Officer Petty, Officer Daniel. Kane daniel had
(19:51):
been stationed In. Guam he was supposed to start a
new assignment with THE. Nsa before he accepted that, position
he apparently had to take a routine polygraph.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Test the test was.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Inconclusive daniel ended up being charged with providing classified information
ABOUT us submarine intelligence programs To. Russia SO ncis agents
started Interrogating. Daniel they detained, him which they were allowed to,
do and the questioning sessions lasted.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Between twelve and nineteen.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Hours they did this for twenty nine, days and When
daniel asked for a, lawyer they ignored. Him daniel started
to lose touch with. Reality he told his interrogators that
he was depressed in. Suicidal after about three weeks of,
this he told the agents holding him he wanted to
see a, psychiatrist so that's when they brought in Doctor.
(20:41):
Gellis daniel told Doctor galllis that he couldn't remember committing,
espionage but said Doctor gallis told him the polygraph examination
proved he must have done. Something this obviously wasn't. True
daniel was also told that he had failed the polygraph
test that also wasn't. True the results were. Inconclusive according
to a later, Complaint daniel became extremely distraught during this.
(21:05):
Questioning he grabbed a knife and tried to stab himself
in the. Stomach After Daniel king was eventually, released his
attorney filed an ethics complaint against Doctor gallis with THE,
apa but it was not, accepted and the controversy over
Doctor gallis and over Those guantanamo interrogations continues to this.
Day all of this went down just two years after
(21:28):
the murders at Kk's. Corner i'm telling this story to
illustrate that hypnosis is not some kind of magic.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Bullet it's.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Controversial the success of any interrogation relies heavily on the,
interrogators and we know that there were many different versions
Of Thomas cisco's story, told and many different versions Of Virginia.
Johnson's during the Kk's corner, trial Doctor gellis testified about the.
Hypnosis he said hypnosis was quote nothing more than a
(21:58):
form of relaxation end. Quote he said there is no
research to show that information obtained under hypnosis is. Accurate he,
explained the only way to know for sure was to
independently corroborate that. Information but in the Kk's corner, case
corroborating the evidence was difficult, because as we have been
told over and, over there was no physical. Evidence but
(22:21):
it turned out that wasn't quite. True according to THE fbi,
report Numerous caucasian hairs were found on the, bodies but
none of those hairs were a match For Thomas. Cisco
blood samples were taken from the crime. Scene none of
the blood samples Matched Thomas, cisco and there were only
four latent prints taken from the entire crime, scene but
(22:42):
none of those prints were A machi. Either THE fbi
report also mentioned there were other fibers at the crime,
scene blue green and red carpet type. Fibers those fibers
were taken off all of the. Victims investigators never found
a match to those. Fibers Evelyn ubray stated in court
That Tomas cisco was a chainsmoker and that there was
(23:04):
a cigarette butt found on the floor of the, cooler
but there was no record of that cigarette ever being
processed FOR. Dna she asked why law enforcement did not
test a cigarette that could have been linked to the.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Killer we asked about the.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Evidence we wanted to know whether it could be retested,
today but we're still not sure of the. Status we
don't know if the evidence still exists or what condition it's.
In Lame lebuff believes that it burned in a, fire
but we don't have confirmation of. That if it does
exist and if they still have, it could it be
retested and could that testing lead to another. Suspect At
(23:45):
Thomas sisko's, trial his defense Attorney evelyn U bray was
trying to focus the jury on alternative, suspects and a
lot of people wondered if this case could be connected
to drug deals that had been going down At Kk's.
Corner you may remember from last week that the owner
of the store at the, Time Kenny, klein said that
about a year before the, murders an employee came to
(24:06):
him and told him that several, employees Including Marty lebuff
And Nathaniel, gobert were dealing drugs At Kk's. Corner police
talked to the, Employee Stephen. Viator he said that when
he Told kenny about the alleged drug. Dealing kenny told
him that he should mind his own, business And stephen
said his hours were cut from forty hours a week
(24:27):
down to just a few soon, afterwards But kenny did
tell law enforcement about his employee's. Suspicions and then two,
Officers jerome With straps And jason, mcwright came by to
try to do some undercover. Buys kenny said police told
told him that the undercover buyers had. Failed they were
unable to buy drugs at the, store so life went
(24:49):
on at kk's. Corner after the, murders police talked to
more than one person who said That marty was dealing
marijuana out of kk's, corner and we know From miles
addison statements to police that he was dealing drugs, too including,
COCAINE lsd and pot out of the. Store according to police,
Documents stacey had talked to two officers in the weeks
(25:12):
before the murders about drug dealing in kk's. Corner one
of them Was jerome With. Straps Detective deluge knew That
jerome Was straps worked narcotics for THE Calcashu Paris Sheriff's,
department so he contacted the chief Of detectives There John.
Fryar he asked If stacy had been a confidential informant for.
Anyone John fryar, said to his, Knowledge stacy never provided
(25:35):
intel to any of his. Officers but, later according to court,
Documents jerome With straps said he had talked To stacy
about working under co with The sheriff's. Office he said
she told him about people dealing Kevin abel drugs and
her suspicion That kevin's death was not a. Homicide according
to a statement made By jerome With, straps he Advised
(25:57):
stacy that with two young, daughters undercover work might be
dangerous for. Her he said he told her that if
she had information About kevin's, death she should contact the
investigator in charge of that. Case In february of nineteen ninety,
nine the attorney working on a civil lawsuit Contacted jerome With.
Straps he confirmed police did send an undercover officer in
(26:19):
to make a buy AT. KKs they said that none
of the employees suspected of selling drugs were on duty
at that time and that.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
That's why it didn't.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Work he said they hung around outside the store for
a few nights and didn't see any evidence of drug,
dealing so they suspended the. Operation, Now jerome With straps
had a second. Job he worked security three nights a
week at The kettle restaurant from twelve am to six.
Am erome Said stacy would sometimes come into the restaurant
and talk to. Him she would talk to him About
(26:49):
kevin's drug dealing and her fears For kevin's life and
later for her. Life jerome Said stacy talked to him
three or four times Before kevin's death and two to
three times. Afterward in the weeks before she was, Murdered
jerome Was strapped said in the early morning hours Of july,
six he was on his way to work at The.
Kettle he said he was running, late and he drove
(27:11):
through the kk's.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Corner parking lot at twelve twenty two.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Am he said at that point he noticed the store
looked well, lit like it was open for. Business he
said he remembered thinking that was slightly, unusual but thought
maybe they were staying late because it was a holiday.
Weekend So jerome Was straps was asked why he waited
so long to reveal that he had been in that parking.
Lot he said he didn't really have an answer for
(27:36):
why he had not reported this information to police. Before
he said he thought he might have Told Deputy deluche
about him being in that parking lot at the crucial,
time right around when the murders, happened but that he wasn't.
Sure Sheila thigpen was one Of stacy's best. Friends she
stated during a deposition That kevin owed a lot of
money to, someone possibly as much as five thousand. Dollars
(27:59):
those weren't his only, Debts sheila Said stacy told her
That kevin owed nine to ten thousand dollars to some
other people and that, quote if he didn't get the
money to this guy, soon he was going to be
killed end. Quote she Called kevin, paranoid but LIKE i often,
say paranoid people aren't always. Wrong to get the money
(28:21):
to pay his, Dealers kevin would write a check to kk's,
Corner stacey would cash, it And kevin would give the
drug dealers. Cash stacy believed that someone was following her
in the last weeks of her.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Life according To, sheila the people she.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Was meeting, with a man Named brian and another man
Named Officer, sweeney were talking to her about her suspicions
About kevin's. Death sheila, said, Quote stacey was seeing a
man Named brian because she said she had some evidence
to pinpoint that it Wasn't kevin's. Handwriting she was going
to get the letter Through, brian and then she met
a guy Named Officer sweeney at The kettle one. Night
(28:58):
she said they were going to help her prove That
kevin didn't commit.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Suicide end.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Quote sheila said she was With stacy one night When
stacy met With Officer sweeney at The kettle restaurant Where
jerome was straps and other officers work second. Jobs she
Said stacy went to the back of The kettle by
the poker machines and talked To Officer. Sweeney the police
said they couldn't Find Officer, sweeney BUT i did find
(29:23):
information about An Officer sweeney who was working for The
Lake Charles Police department at the. Time i'm trying to
contact him to see if he is the same officer
Who sheila saw meeting With. Stacy sheila said That stacy
told Her Miles addison was dealing marijuana out of the
store and That stacey bought weed from. Him she said
she personally Witness stacy filling out a, check Signing kevin's
(29:46):
name to it and collecting the money from Kk's sheila
also Said stacy talked to her about people with drug
code Names, Ice, robo and Kool, aid but she said
she wasn't sure who any of these people. Were we've
had several people revealed to us who they believed to
be the identity Of. Ice were working to verify, it
(30:07):
But i'm not gonna. Lie it's hard to verify anything
because a lot of people who were potential witnesses have
died or left the, saint and the ones who were
left behind are. Scared Tracy, reeves one Of Stacy reeves's twin,
daughters died in twenty twenty. One Chad, reeves the sole
(30:28):
witness To Kevin abel's, death has also passed. Away according
to The Lake Charles, Police chad was living with his,
aunt sixty eight year Old Mary Jane. CASEY a family
member got concerned On july, seventeenth twenty, nineteen when they
couldn't reach Either chad Or Mary, jane so they called
for a welfare check at their. Home when officers arrived
(30:49):
at the, scene they found the bodies Of Mary jane And. Chad,
later a spokesperson for The Late Charles Police department said
they believe the night before the welfare, Check chad shot
his aunt with a shotgun and then turned the gun on.
Himself the killings were ruled a murder, suicide and the
city attorney.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Told a local news station the case had been.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Closed as we said last, Week Thomas cisco was sentenced
to ninety years in. Prison his parole was rescinded in
twenty twenty, three and he is still incarcerated In, Angola.
Louisiana according to the latest INFORMATION i can, find he's
next eligible for parole this. Year in twenty twenty, FIVE
i Wrote Thomas cisco a letter AND i have been
(31:33):
in contact with his, sister so IF i am able
to talk to, HIM i will keep you all. Updated
The Violent Crimes Task force Of Calkashi perish was disbanded
three years after The Kk's corner murders in two. Thousand
that was the same year That Deputy, deluge who headed
up the, investigation moved. On in two, thousand he became
(31:54):
the chief of police In, Jennings, louisiana a town about
thirty seven miles east down the It. In while working In,
Jennings Deputy deluge faced a sexual harassment. Scandal according to
the Book murder in The, bayou he was accused of
forcing a female employee to make a video of herself
getting her nipple, piers and then of showing that video
(32:15):
to work. Colleagues in two thousand and, Three Deputy deluche
resigned from The Jennings Police. Department he later reportedly worked
for another police. Department Sheriff Wayne mcalvin is now in
his mid. Eighties we have been told he is not
in good. Health his, Son Richard, mcalvin is a chiropractor In.
Louisiana according to the latest online RECORDS i can, find
(32:39):
it seems as Though Miles addison has moved away from
The Lake charles. Area he had a criminal, record including
some drug, charges but was pardoned by the governor in twenty.
Sixteen David, freeman the drug dealer Who kevin able owed money,
to was arrested in connection With kevin's, death but later.
(33:01):
Released he appears to be currently incarcerated In. Louisiana Laine,
Lebuff marty's, brother continues to fight for. Answers he posts
regularly on The facebook page Remembering Kk's.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Corner twenty five years, later the former.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Owner Of, Kk's Kenny, klin told us that for, him
the murders changed, everything and it seems like for a
lot of people in this, case the events of their
entire lives can be divided into two, parts before the
murders At Kk's corner and everything after a few weeks
(33:38):
after the, Murders Kenny klin sold the. Store he told
us he started a long care, business and he said
he's never looked.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
Back when you're in the middle of, it LIKE i,
am you hear so much you start, Thinking, okay is
this tied? Together that tied? Together and this is just
very personal for me BECAUSE i like to watch this
crime stuff ON. TV i kind of believe in conspiracy,
theories you know that kind of. Crap certainly doesn't surprise
me if it's something like. That but there, AGAIN i
can't prove. IT i can't prove, It and AGAIN i
(34:08):
don't want to jump out there and accuse someone BECAUSE i,
mean you, KNOW i used to have to come home
and my wife KNOW i heard somebody in the grocery
store saying that you, know you knew they were selling
drugs and you were getting a cut of it and
you know all that kind of, crap And i'm, like,
well you know, what sweet. Are we got out of
the store BECAUSE i just couldn't stand to go back in,
there AND i opened up lawn service and started cutting
grass in a hundred degree. HEAT i, REALLY i just
want to tell, you from the bottom of my, HEART
(34:28):
i appreciate what y'all were. Doing there's two THINGS i
want to know BEFORE i. Die number one is exactly
what happened To Kk's. Corner number two is who really
Killed JOHN. F. Kennedy so if y'all configure that that
first one, Out i'd be very very appreciative For i'd
go to my. Grave i'm sixty three years. OLD i
sure like to know BEFORE i.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Deserve law enforcements say they are still actively investigating The
Kk's corner murders because the second killer was never. Caught
police have asked anyone who has information about the killings
to contact The Calcashue Parish sheriff's office at three three
seven four nine one three six, five or they can
(35:04):
call Crime stoppers anonymously at three three seven four three
nine two two two. Two I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is
Helen Gone Murder. Line Helen Gone Murder line is a
production Of school Of humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written
and narrated by Me Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Watts special thanks To Amy.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Tubbs for her research assistants And James wheaton for legal.
Review noah camer mixed and scored this. Episode our theme
song is By Ben. Salep executive producers Are Virginia, Prescott Brandon,
barr and. L. C. Crowley listen To Helen gone ad
free by subscribing to The iHeart True Crime plus channel
On Apple. Podcasts if you were interested in seeing documents
(35:47):
and materials from the, case you can follow the show
On instagram At hell and. Gonepod if you have a
case you'd like me and my team to look, into
you can reach out to us at Our hell And
Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four four
six one four five at six seven eight seven four
four six one four.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Five school Of humans
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