Cutting the Financial Umbilical Cord with Bobbi Rebell #511

We’re talking today about how to avoid screwing up your kid’s relationship with money. As parents, our job is to raise amazing adults to one day replace us! And even if you don’t currently have kids, or maybe you know that you never will- today’s conversation will do a great job shedding some light on why you think and feel the way you do about your personal finances. Bobbi Rebell is a Certified Financial Planner, she’s host of the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast, and she’s also the author of “Launching Financial Grownups”. The book is a call to action for parents who want the best for their kids, but who are beginning to realize that their own pursuit of financial independence has to become a priority as well. We talk about parenting styles, the increasing trend of boomerang college students, ways that we can strategically help our kids with money, and personal finance conversations between parents and adult children as well.

 

During this episode we enjoyed a Farm Friends by New Image Brewing! And please help us to spread the word by letting friends and family know about How to Money! Hit the share button, subscribe if you’re not already a regular listener, and give us a quick review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Help us to change the conversation around personal finance and get more people doing smart things with their money!

 

Best friends out!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am
Matt and today we're talking cutting the financial m biblical
cord with Bobby Rebel. So I know that may have

(00:28):
been a graphic title for folks, it'll make a lot
of sense here in a minute. But Bobby Rebel, she
is joining us today on the podcast, and we're gonna
we're gonna be talking about how you can avoid screwing
up your kids relationship with money. And even if you
don't have kids, right, maybe you are younger yourself, maybe
your origin ze or younger millennial. I think today's conversation
will do a great job shooting some light on why

(00:50):
you think and why you feel the way you do
about your personal finances. Um. But Bobby Rebel, she's a
certified financial planner, she's host of Money Tips for Financial
grown Ups podcast, and she's also the author of Launching
Financial grown Ups. Uh you know. The book is a
call to action for parents who want the best for
their kids, that are beginning to realize that their own

(01:10):
pursuit of financial independence and financial separation from their children
it's got to become a priority as well. And so
we're excited to talk about all of that and more today. Bobby,
thank you for joining us today on the podcast. Thank
you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here, Bobby.
We're glad to have you. Of course, we ask every
guest the same initial question about what their splurges. Matt

(01:30):
and I we spoorge on craft beer, but we want
to know what's your splurge, what's your craft beer equivalent? Well,
so this has changed a lot, and we talked about
this a little bit before we started recording, but it
changes as you get older. And I think that my
splurge when I was younger might have been a beverage.
But I am now full on middle aged. As everyone knows,
I have children that are young adults, and so you

(01:51):
start to have different priorities. And we we bought an apartment,
my husband and I about fifteen years ago, and it
was sort of an original condition situation because that's what
we could afford. And you say, you're going to get
to things, and then, as I said, it's been fifteen
years and so we are finally splurging on I hate
to say this, but it is true. The bathroom of
our dreams and it is coming together beautifully as we speak.

(02:14):
I am in an alternate location to record this, not
my home, but it has really exciting things, guys. It
has like a heated towel bar. Did you know this
is what you asked about splurge. I mean, this is
the middle aged splurge, guys. This is where it's headed.
When you get past the beer in the champagne and
the cosmos and all that stuff. Cosmos. I've dated myself

(02:35):
as a gen xer, but this is where it's headed. People.
And yeah, I mean, so I've got the towel warmer,
and we've got a rain shower. I've got a little
built in makeup makeup area, and then my husband. This
is like the real dream. This is for you middle
aged men. This is what you're probably dreaming of. It's
a really fancy toilet. I don't know what it does,

(02:55):
but my husband's really excited about it. I'm gonna have
to watch some YouTube videos to learn how to work
because it's got like a remote control, it's got all
kinds of stuff. It's like bananas. It's I don't know
what it is, but he's really excited about it. And
so that is our splurge. It's on updating our home,
but very specifically the bathroom China, like ten years ago,

(03:19):
and I just remember the thing that sticks out of
my mind from that trip was all the fancy toilets this.
I was like, I've never seen toilets like these before.
So yeah, you don't realize like what's out there. Because
so the apartment we're in, the bathroom was built I
think forty two years ago. Is it's you know, original
to the building, and it's you know, they were literally
construction problems. I mean there was leaking and all kinds

(03:40):
that we had to do something, and I just said,
I don't want to cheap out on it. I was like,
you know what, it's been fifteen years, we are living here,
we're raising our family here, and I'm tired of having
this you know, crumbling, outdated mess. And so that's the splurge.
As we're talking about history, I'm thinking about forty two
years where the history you know of folks who use
your bathroom for you did. But I need to go

(04:03):
there also go down that graphic path as well. But
I wanted to talk about your personal history because your dad,
he worked on Law Street when you were growing up, right,
how did that specifically influence you and you know, like,
what were the conversations just around the dinner table like
with him as you were growing up. Well, thank you
for asking that. Yeah, And the book, by the way,
is dedicated to my dad. And it's been very interesting

(04:25):
seeing his reaction to the book and to sort of
what I took away from the lessons that he taught
me growing up that he wasn't as deliberate as I
think I am in terms of teaching my children. And
so he's like, yeah, I did do that. That was smart.
So that's always interesting. But he started out so he look,

(04:46):
it was a different era. My mother didn't really have
a career until she went back to law school when
I was in middle school. My thought so it was,
you know, she was a homemaker and my dad was
he had gone to school to be a lawyer. And
what's interesting is he figured out as a lawyer that
he was doing these deals and he kind of figured
out that he was being paid hourly and the bankers

(05:07):
on the other side of the deal, we're being paid
by the deal. And so he said, well, I want
to kind of do the same thing, but I want
to sit on the other side of the table. So
I can get paid by the deal, and that really
informed how he ended up being successful on Wall Street.
He was able to kind of make that switch from
being a lawyer to investment banking, and it taught me

(05:28):
that if you want to do something, find the area
of it that maybe is a little bit more lucrative.
So I am a journalist, and I originally thought I
would do local news. I wanted to do television, but
I realized and my father helped me realize this that's
in the book a little bit um that if I
did business news and financial news economic stories, that would
pay more and also it would give me the lifestyle

(05:50):
that I wanted because it was somewhat more regular hours.
I still I've worked quite a few overnights in my day,
but it would allow me to live in New York
City near my family. I grew up in suburb in
New Jersey, and it would give me a corporate job
with benefits, which was very important to me at the time.
So sort of looking at your goals, but finding the
niche that makes sense with where you want to be

(06:11):
in life is something really important that he taught me.
That's great. Yeah, it sounds like he was kind of
pushing you in a direction. Was there any resistance on
on your on your behalf or or were you kind
of like sure, Dad, that sounds great. Um, Like, what
were those conversations between the two of you. Oh my gosh,
this is such a good question because my dad and
I are talking about this now because he remembers it
very differently. Um. He really wanted me to work on

(06:35):
Wall Street, and so the compromise when I was in
college was that I would instead of doing an internship
at in general news, I would work in financial news.
I actually had an internship at CNN where I did
volunteer to go in overnight because I was a little
nuts at the time. But um, well that's where I
could get a lot of experience because they needed people more. So,

(06:56):
you know, it made sense except to anyone except for me.
Was on the morning show. I know what, I know
what that's like. Yeah, but that's where you get your start,
and that's where you can really make a lot of
headway very quickly. So his idea was that I would
learn about Wall Street and I would meet all of
these people that you know work on Wall Street in
actual Wall Street job, not journalism. Through all the guests

(07:17):
that would come through CNN, and then I would go
work on Wall Street in a job not not be
a journalist. And so that part didn't work out, and
he sort of denies that. He says, oh, I was
always supportive of journalism. I never said you should do that.
That's not true. Let me tell you, guys, I got
a CFP in and he even then said, oh, are

(07:37):
you making a career pivot? Are you going to go
work on Wall Street? And that was five years ago, guys.
So you know, it's a compromise. And and that that
goes to the point of the book that you can't
make your kids something they're not going to be. You
can guide them, you can tell them how it's going
to play out, but there's only so much you can do.
They are not you. They are your children, and so
they'll have a lot of your characteristics, but they're going

(08:00):
to live their own life, that's right. Yeah, Well, speaking
of kids raising financial grown ups, that doesn't happen all
at once. It doesn't happen like you can't just flip
a switch like uh in their senior year of high
school or something like that. Uh. And so as kids
are younger, like talked with something about the some of
the different tactics you took when your kids when they
were younger, maybe in hopes that some of those lessons

(08:20):
would actually stick. You know, you've got a history, you've
got a background covering finances. What did it look like
for you raising younger kids. I think it's important to
make it part of the everyday conversation and not separate
it as sort of a lesson per se. So, for example,
if you go to the doctor, depending on what age

(08:40):
they are, what's appropriate, you might start talking to them
about how health insurance works. When you hand over the card,
or even if it's a virtual card, you know, show
them on your phone what's going on. Well, I'm giving
them insurance information. They may not fully register what insurances,
but you can explain high concept that this is in
case something really bad happens, we only have to pay
part of it. You can, you know, sort of gradually

(09:02):
drip that in. And I tell the story of I
had to go to the doctor with my son and
it was December, and he was about ten years old,
and he could understand at that point, and he sort
of gave me the eye roll, which you get. You
will get that when I started telling him, well, I'm
not stressed out about how much this is going to
cost because we already met our deductible. It's December. Thank god,
this didn't happen in January, right, So you can sort

(09:23):
of say those things and they might not get a
percent of what you're talking about, but over time it
will start to sink in and they probably will know
more than you realize if you just take those moments.
What's your take on maybe some of some of the
other ways that a parent can kind of help their
kids understand the value of a dollar. It just makes
me think back to when I was a kid. My
parents would have like strict limits on certain items, like

(09:45):
what they would pay for. So, for instance, I always
wanted the hot new basketball shoes. I wanted the Scottie
Pippens or whatever, and they were really expensive. They're like
a hundred fifty bucks, and my parents like, listen, our
cap is forty bucks or fifty bucks today with the
place and those hues are like four times as much.
But but so yeah, my parents would always set a limit,
and then if I really wanted that thing, I would

(10:06):
have to save up my money and I would have
to have some skin in the game. Yeah, what do
you think about like those kinds of tactics or are
there things along those lines that you think can can
help kids understand the value of money as you know,
as they're growing up. I think that's the perfect way
to teach them. And what has happened in my own
experience is sometimes maybe when they have to save their

(10:27):
own money for it, they make adjustments in terms of
what they want. So even now, we're planning a family
vacation and my five year old said, oh, let's get
this upgraded package on the cruise ship we're going. We're
going to go to Alaska, and you know, and she's
a good little shopper, you know, she tried to talk
us into the trip. She's like, oh, dad, can get
the senior discount. Like, okay, hold up there. I don't

(10:48):
know if we want to tell them that one, but um,
you know, they're like, let's get the upgraded beverage you
know package, And I said, no, we're not doing that,
but you and your boyfriend, you guys can do that
if that's something important to you, and they haven't. So
it works at all ages. It works for anybody, no
matter what's going on. If you give them skin in
the game, they may they may still want it, and

(11:08):
that's fine, they're gonna work for it. But you know,
their perception may change when it's their own money. Even
if they do spend it, they'll appreciate it so much more.
And that's just human. If we're just you know, if
we have something you know, you talk about as you
go through life stages and maybe you can afford more,
and we have lifestyle creep, a purchase that would have

(11:28):
been devastating to you or really something you would have
really priced out now may not be so significant, and
so you take it for granted, you don't value it
as much as we go through life and we can
if we hopefully have more and more money, we can
afford it more. It doesn't pinch us as much. We
often don't even appreciate it as much as we might
have beforehand. Yeah, So those everyday sort of things like

(11:50):
it just makes me think. Recently, we're at a local
farmers market on a Saturday morning. There is a like
a rocks and gems vendor there. You know what I'm
talking about, Like the guys that selica, you know, the
polished rocks basically, and all of our girls, all three
of our girls, wanted to get something. And our oldest
daughter she dropped like seventeen bucks, which for some rocks.
To me, that seems like a lot of money. But

(12:11):
you know, we're like, you know what, you can totally
get this, but this is gonna come out of your money,
and you know we we covered it there on the
spot because we weren't expecting them to buy anything at
the farmers market. But when we got home, she went
ahead and you know we we exchanged the money and
those small little touch points along the way, just like
you said, kind of like those everyday conversations I think
can go a long way, even if they don't completely
stick in the moment. We're kind of like building up

(12:32):
a repository of experiences and information in them. So as
we're talking about just how we parent. Like we've all
heard of the term helicopter parenting. I feel like that's
been going on for like a decade or two. You
guys helicopter parents. Oh, I'm like the opposite. I don't
even talk to my kids, so it's yeah, I tend
to be more on the like the other, like the
free range kind of spectrum, but like you've also heard

(12:54):
about like the snowplow parenting style as well, all of
these are kind of a little more in vogue. But
what is your take? Is there a better approach when
it comes to how it is that we teach our kids,
you know, not just life lessons, but specifically money lessons.
So this is so much the inspiration of the book,
So I'm glad that you brought it up. And and
when the kids get older, you know, you can move
into what I like to refer to as concierge parenting,

(13:14):
where you're sort of available at all times to solve
their problems, often with money. So it's something that can
really get expensive as the kids get older. So it's
important to just have that sort of give yourself a
little check in and and say does my kid really
need me to do this? What would happen if I
just let it play out and I observed rather than

(13:36):
get involved. And it's really hard because sometimes it won't
go well. I try to have I have a fourteen
year old and I'll say to him, well, I want
you to schedule a once a week um check in
extra help with your math teacher, and I'm not going
to schedule it. I want you to schedule it and
you to see see me on the email, and it
doesn't happen so fast, and I have to kind of

(13:56):
ask him three or four times, but I do that
rather than setting it up myself. UM, so it's sort
of you're you're there and supporting them, but you're still
you know, I joke about that, make them press the
keys on the keyboard. You know that that really matters
because it would be much easier if I sent it
and secd him. But it's really important that he learned
to engage directly with his teachers at this age. He's

(14:18):
in eighth grade, so at this age, it's age appropriate
for him to set up the appointment directly with his
teachers and to have that ownership and to show up
and to not be waiting for me to remind him.
It depends on not only the age, but where your
child is in terms of their emotional maturity and where
they're at in their growth cycle. And that's also really important,

(14:39):
is that every kid is different at different ages and
will be a very different person, even if you have
multiple children, trust me, totally different personalities in almost every case. Yeah, yeah,
I mean it makes me think, like I have a
two and a half year old right now, and it's
like a terrible parent here, but he has fallen off
the trampoline twice. Uh and and so yeah, he's he's

(15:00):
been fine and and I think he's learned a lesson
from it. But it's one of those things where where um,
when he's younger, let's say, even if he was a
little bit younger than that, like I would have to
be right there the whole time to make sure that
didn't happen. And then it was like, okay, he's with
the sisters on there, he's two and a half. I
think I can I can go sit on the porch
and watch. And then it was like wait, maybe I
maybe I can't yet. But you're kind of there's that

(15:20):
delving into birth order territory. It's like that would have
never have happened to your first that's true, But there's
a learning experience too as you get to see, like
you you get a little bit further away and you're like,
can they handle this? And then maybe you gotta jemp
back in for a little bit, But then yeah, you
can push back out because now they've learned their lesson.
But I want to move beyond parenting styles too. Probably
I want to ask you, um, how do you handle

(15:41):
discussing generational differences? Because you know gen z Ear's young millennials,
they have different wants and desires than they're then they're
typically gen X parents, and so how do you help
without trying to necessarily get them to adopt all of
your personal values or the completely buy into the way
you view everything? So full disclosure say something I have
way too much experience with as an example, and I

(16:04):
talk about this in the book. My stepdaughter, who's twenty five,
during the pandemic, she decided that even though she was
living at home saving for an apartment, that was something
she wanted to do since she was thirteen years old.
She and her boyfriend were going to get season passes
for Disney World. We live in New York City, Disney
World in Florida. There's a pandemic, and this is where

(16:24):
my financially responsible child right is spending. I'm like, you
gotta be kidding me, so that all that? Now, would
I have understood if she said I need a work wardrobe.
You know, let's say we weren't all home whatever, I
would have totally understood that right. She didn't care about
that stuff. So she basically took my old clothes. I
used to be a TV anchor. She just took that clothing.
She's like, I'm good to go. I don't want to
buy I don't want to spend my money on clothing.

(16:45):
I'm not interested. I'll take your old purses. Good to
go doesn't care. But she really cares about those experiences
and having those season passes, and that was really hard.
And actually the epilogue of the book is actually defending
the season passes to Disney World because it became I
was mortified. I mean, I'm like, You've got to be
kidding me. I would never do that ever, ever, Forget

(17:08):
about the pandemic, forget about having other financial priorities. I
just wouldn't do that. We don't live in Florida. But
for her it made total sense because a lot of people,
you know, she's sort of on the borderline millennial um
gen z. A lot of people you know, that's that's
what they value in the generation, is that that's where
she's going to be vacationing and having that experience. That's

(17:29):
what she loves to do. So that's her financial priority,
and I've had a really hard time accepting it. So
it's important to just listen to them and let it be.
Don't get in there and mix in. It's their money,
it's their money, and you have to let them do stuff,
even if you just don't understand. I don't understand to
this day. I read the epilogue, I get it sort of,

(17:50):
but I would never do that. It still feels like
a foreign concept to you. And how she's spending her money, right,
and so so obviously that's one as like, that's one
aspect of money is is how you spend it. Do
you see a difference in how she approaches other aspects
of personal finances, like whether that's in how she earns
her money, how she just her attitude towards it in general,
or maybe even how she invests her money. Absolutely, um, now,

(18:12):
I think she has been influenced by me to some degree.
When you have a mom that's doing this or a stepmom,
but she is. You know, she's very focused on her
career first before getting married and having kids. She's really
made financial stability and security a priority for her, and
she's very intentional in her career. She originally wanted to

(18:33):
be a teacher. And when she looked at the upside economics,
which some teachers are actually paid pretty well. You can
make a very solid living as a teacher in many
areas these days, but the upside is generally limited. And
she looked at her other skill set, and she's very good.
I hate to say this, but she can really had
computers pretty well. She's dat um. But what's the upside
of that, right, Let's use that skill for good. So

(18:55):
she works as a cybersecurity consultant and her yeah, I
mean she's already been. She's been at her at a
consulting firm for a few years. She gets recruited by
other companies. We'll see how it evolves, but I think
she'll be out earning all of us very soon the
way things are going. So she really thought about doing
something that she was good at and passionate about, but

(19:17):
also really thinking about the ability for her to fund
the lifestyle she wants that. She really is very interested
in travel and experiences, and that is something very native
to her generation. So I think that approach is unique.
I don't think I gave my career as much thought
in terms of the finances, despite my father's frustrations. Well,

(19:38):
I think that's good. I think to a way to
approach that conversation is to not maybe shut down their
idea of what they want to do, but to say, well, like,
here's the way, here's the here are the gifts you
use in that profession, and here are other professions that
might interest you, And that kind of spurs a conversation
as opposed to be like no, no, no, I want
you to do what I want you to do, and
that shuts everything down. Um, But Bobby, we've got some
more questions we want to get to, including just some

(20:00):
milestone shifts that have really taken place and how it's
understandable maybe that folks in the younger generation think about
money and responsibility a little bit differently. We'll get to
some some topics on that right after this. All right,

(20:21):
we're back from the break and we're talking with Bobby
Rebel Joel. You just teased about like the milestone shifts, right,
and so we're gonna kind of talk about teens here
in general. But but Bobby, you know, you say that
things like that they really are different for the upcoming generations,
things like being able to stay on their parents health
insurance until the age of twenty six. Like that's the
an example, But how should parents think about what feels

(20:44):
like a slower transition into adulthood. That seems to be
happening more these days. So I'd really like to look
at the positive of this, and there is so much
positive happening. So for example, the a c A, the
Affordable Care Act, as you mentioned, it allows kids to
stay on our insurance until twenty six. Although I want
to say the caveat because it's a money show. That's
not always true for I and dental, so please check

(21:06):
your plan um. But it gives them the freedom to
explore without that pressure. I mean, I remember, you know
in theory I look back, I wish I had taken
a year off, a gap year after graduating from college,
but I felt pressure to get a job right away.
And one of those pressures is that you want those
corporate benefits. So it's really wonderful that this generation doesn't
have that kind of pressure. The downside, of course, is

(21:28):
that a lot of companies don't then feel their pressure
to provide that as a priority for young people when
they're recruiting them. They can keep people on as contractors,
they can you know they can put kids in sort
of a gig economy situation when that's not their choice.
But the upside also is, for example, if you have
a kid that wants to start their own business, they
can stay on your health insurance. That's a huge benefit

(21:49):
to give them some breathing room to do that. We
also don't have the stigma that we had for Gen xers,
where if we lived at home after graduation, we were
kind of labeled as slackers. That's no longer the case now.
I think it's perceived as being smart. We have much
closer relationships with our kids, in large part because of technology.
When I was dropped up of college, I had a computer,

(22:11):
but that was sort of a new thing to have
my own computer, and I certainly wasn't emailing. We didn't
have email to our parents, and we did not have
texting or face time or any of that. So you
kind of had to figure it out when you were
at college on your own or with your roommates and
bond with them and really be immersed in that experience.
Now the ties to your parents are much stronger. There's

(22:34):
a lot of good that comes from that. But you
also have a lot of kids in college, asking their
parents constantly for help and things that maybe they would
just figure out on their own if they didn't have
that option. So there's a delicate balance there. I would
like to think of it as more positive than negative.
But we also have to be aware that it allows
for this extended period of adolescence which can really go

(22:56):
well passed college in many cases. So basically they're they're
like too, so that you can use to can continue
to build a healthy relationship with your kid as they
as they leave the nest, as they grow into young adulthood.
But it can also maybe be some sort of it
can be a crutch that you lean on in your
relationship or that your child maybe it's too dependent on you,
So you probably have to create good boundaries and rules

(23:18):
surrounding how you interact. Um. You know, when you're apart,
what is that? What what you'd say? You're correct? And
also what's happened is a lot of gen xers are
reactive to the fact that when we grew up we
did not have a lot of supervision at home. We
joked that we were the latch key kids. We were
just sort of sent out to play outside, and we

(23:38):
were and I said, to my little brother the other day,
I said, you know, my you know, the youngest of
our children is going to be in in college in
five years. So I feel like in five years we
can take sort of you know, a loan trips with
just my husband and I, you know, without having to
worry about you know, really it's tough to have someone

(23:59):
watch him for an ace in a period of time
because you want someone who's sort of involved because it's
high school coming up and all that. And I said, well,
how did our mom and dad do that? Because I
remember them doing that at much younger age. Is my
mom passed away at sixty two, so this was happening
in her you know, fourties and fifties that they were doing.
They did epic trips and travel. And my brother said,
they just left us alone. And I'm like, what do

(24:19):
you mean. He's like, we were alone. We didn't our
aunt lived down the block like students are right. But
but but the reaction is that we overparent our kids
because we feel that we don't want that for them.
So we you know, even the dad's and again, so
much good, overall, good, good, good dads are so much

(24:42):
more involved. I mean, think how many parents. Let's be honest,
your guys, how many parents do you know not by
their full name or you don't even know their profession,
You just know they're Johnny's dad, right, literally could not
help you couldn't say three sentences about them about like
anything beyond their kid. Right. Identities are so tied to
our children, and so it's really hard for us to

(25:04):
let go in the same way. And we have a
much more informal relationship with our children. Again, so good,
great stuff. They feel so much more comfortable coming to
us with problems. They're including us in finding solutions. But
we just have to make sure that we let them
know that we believe in them, that they can also

(25:24):
solve them themselves. Were there for them, We're there, We'll
chat it out with them. Well, well, you know, go
through different ideas, but we can't, especially with money. We
have to stop writing checks to solve the problem. We
can contribute, we can help, we can present ideas, but
we can't just you know, like I said with the
concierge parenting, we can't just whip about the checkbook. And
you know, it's like if you have a kid doing

(25:45):
Girl Scouts, you can't you don't just buy all the
cookies while they're off at college. Is like, can I
can I get you some new towels? I can just
show up and drop those off at your apartment door.
That is not what you're looking to do. Yeah, all
kidding aside, Yes, you could just go on Amazon and
have towels delivered. You could do that, But at what
caused that? You know, what kind of damage might you
be be causing? Uh, and you know kind of stuff.

(26:07):
That's right, right, right, The towels won't kill them. But
but it's the idea, that's all the little things that
I gotta think, right. It's it's not that like, oh,
is there anything wrong with the towels, or oh is
there anything wrong with a certain amount of money trickling
in every week or something like that. But like you said,
I think it truly is going back to what you
said before the break, I think it is sort of
those everyday conversations that that have a big impact on

(26:30):
them over time. And you know, you're kind of talking
about kids off that college. I wanted to get your
your thoughts on five twenty nine plans because obviously there's
a lot of positive things that can be said about them.
But are many parents prioritizing the ability to help their
kids pay for college to the detriment of their own retirement.
I feel like that's something that we've seen and I'd
like to hear you talk about that, yes, not only

(26:51):
prioritizing college, but just prioritizing subsidizing their kids life and
what they need at ages that it's not really as
necessary as they take it upon themselves. In other words,
that will often subsidize their child without the child asking.
And this is, you know, going beyond just funding college.
But they're often tempted to just pay for things because

(27:12):
they want to be there for their kid and they
love them so much. It's all coming from a good place,
and they want to know that they want their kids
to feel secure and taking care of. And again, it's
tough to cut that tie when you're so your identity
is so tied to your child, but it absolutely can
come at the detriment of our own retirement. And that's
a lot of what prompted me to write this book,

(27:32):
because ultimately, if you are so busy subsidizing your child's life,
especially when they can or should be doing it themselves
funding their own life, it is a real specific danger
and their statistics in the book. I don't want to
misquote it, but I think it's about sevent parents according
to bank Rada. I don't I don't want to misquote it.
You know, we'll we'll take money from their own personal

(27:55):
savings to help their adult child. It's just too much
and and and when you get to that point, what
I would urge parents to do is think carefully. How
would you feel if your child had to support you
in your retirement if you had to ask your kid
for money? Number One, if you haven't set them up
to be financial grown ups, they might not be able to.

(28:15):
But let's pretend that they are. Okay. You just don't
want to do that, especially when you're in retirement and
they're probably in the clutch years where they've got little
kids running around and they want to say for college
for their kids. Right, you don't want to be asking
your kids that. So it's important to prioritize your own
you know, it's sort of like the airline with put
your oxygen mask on first. If you don't take care
of your retirement first, how are you going to be

(28:37):
there for your kids? And how are you going to
not ask them for money later on. So it's really
important to be tuned into what you can afford and
making sure that if you weren't there, they can take
care of at the very least themselves, and if something
tragic and unexpected happened, that they could take care of you.
And that's something that happened in COVID, some kids had
to take care of their parents. So it's really just

(28:58):
smart money management to make sure your kids can step up.
You hope they never have to, but in a pinch,
make sure they have the financial education and the you know,
the security, the foundation to to be there for you.
But we hope that never happens, right, I mean yeah,
because in the moment, it seems like a noble cause
right to say that, Like, of course I would draw

(29:19):
from my own retirement. Of course we would tap into
our own nest egg in order to support to support
our kids. But what you're saying is to kind of
look down the road and look at what the natural
outcome of that might be. And just like you said,
that might mean you not having enough for yourself, and
then the tables are turned and there's a longer term
burden that's placed on your kids if you if if
you put the priority in the wrong place, and if

(29:41):
you put the priority more on helping them in the
here and now then on making sure you're doing the
right thing for yourself by putting continue to stock money
away inside of those retirement accounts um and if you're
instead syphoning some of that away to support your your
your young adult child, then that could essentially put them
um in a in a difficult spot later on in

(30:02):
their life when they're you know, in their career, having
young kids, all that kind of stuff, and give them
credit for being able to take care of themselves at
you know, whatever age is appropriate for them. I had
a friend that shared with me that she found out
in her forties that her father, who was like, I
think in his seventies by then, had finally finished paying
off her student loans. Now she didn't even know that

(30:24):
he was still paying them. She had paid off her
portion and he never said a word, and somehow it
came out that he had made the last payment. And
she was mortified because all these years she was kind
of galvanting around living her life, not not ridiculously, but
she you know, she had no stress about student loan debt,
and she could have paid that, and she had no idea.
And she was so sad that he had spent so

(30:45):
much of his life paying off her student debt and
she had no idea. So be transparent with your kids
and let them know if you have financial stress that
maybe is not appropriate. Keep those communication lines open, especially
if you have a very successful kid. Don't be subsidizing
them and they don't need it. You know, how do
you think we should view boomerang kids? Because COVID obviously

(31:05):
has has kind of had an impact on this more
more young adults who are in college coming back to
the house had to come back to the house to
like they couldn't stay in our college dorm anymore, right,
and so that even you know, we talked about the
health insurance, the Affordable Care Act and how that's impacted things,
but but even just the pandemic has impacted how we
view young adults moving back into the house. So how

(31:27):
do you think parents should view that? Should they let
their kids move back in after they graduate before they
launch all the way? Like, what do you think about
a soft landing spot for a period of time versus
enabling your kid and letting them live in the basement
for the next decade, Okay, removed the for the next
decade part. And other than that, I love it. I
think it's I think it's it's wonderful. I really do.

(31:47):
I think it's wonderful that we have these evolved relationships
with our children in our generation for the most part,
and that we can be a resource, especially when you know,
having a kid live at home often doesn't really cost
anything out of pocket. Mean, we we had that with Ashley,
and we're going to have that. My stepson's graduating UM
in a couple of months, and we we are insisting
that you move home and stock away a lot of

(32:09):
money for I hope at least a year, because I
think that's a wonderful gift to give to your child
if that's something they also want. I don't know that
you want to force them if they want to go
work in a different city, if they have a different opportunity,
of course that is fine. But I love that the
stigma has gone away. I love that this whole idea
of being perceived as a slacker is no longer the

(32:29):
norm because we can give our kids a head start
in that way, and life is hard enough. I talked
on the book about you know, if you have people
you can introduce your kids to do it, make sure
they're ready and they're going to follow up, but make
connections help them out. There's an example of the guy
who's he's now His name is Jason Fiffer, he's um.
He runs Entrepreneur magazine, and he talks about the fact

(32:49):
that when he got this opportunity to move from they
believe they were in Florida to move for a new
job to New York City, and he really didn't have
the resources to pay for the move and initially for
the partment. His parents helped him because it helped him
take that better job right, and they gradually pulled away
the support as he was able to stand more and
more on his own. But we should absolutely help tee

(33:10):
up our kids for success if we have the resources,
and generally letting them live at home for a defined
period of time with a specifical and a specific exit
strategy can be a wonderful gift to give to our kids.
I like that. And then when when you're getting towards
that the end of that period of time, it's the
key word to make it a little a little more prickly.
So comfortable. Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah, don't don't don't make

(33:32):
it too comportable. Don't like, you know, give them TV
dinners every night or whatever. But as you know, could
it could be a lovely situation. My parents laundry. My
parents let me move back in for like five or
six months. At this one point, I was I was
already in my career and um, you know, my my
roommate was leaving and it was a great place to
land until I bought my first house. And so I

(33:53):
really appreciate the fact that I was back for for
those for that time, we had a nice time together,
but it was also like all right, how long are
you here? And are you when are you going? And
I appreciate that they kind of had that attitude too,
But I think it's good to talk about it. Let's
sort of like, I mean, hopefully that's the natural conversation
they had, as opposed to just making it undesirable to
live there, right, like just glaring at least, not like
passive aggressive. And it's just like, all right, hey, kids,

(34:15):
There's a part of me that pushes back a little
because I'm like, well, I think I totally am going
to enjoy it. And I would enjoy having kids come
back because I'm like, oh man, this is this, this
was time I wasn't necessarily expecting, and this is awesome,
and we can kind of be adults together as opposed
to me feeling like I'm your telling you exactly what
to do, or in older later years, you know their
teams kind of like you know, acting as like a coach.

(34:36):
But even still, I feel like I would want to say,
all right, hey, just so you know, rents a few
hundred bucks, like like a very small amount, but just
so that there's, like you said earlier, that there so
that they have some skin in the game. Because in
the same way, if if I would have bought my
daughter those polished rocks and just be like, hey that
you know that that's on us she she doesn't have
any skin in the game. Yeah, And and this can

(34:57):
work even in the sort of the middle of life
was I got divorced at thirty years old, and I
moved home, not for even economic reasons, I just needed
to be with my parents, and I ended up I
thought i'd be there a couple of months. I ended
up being there for a year while I was sort
of figuring out where I wanted to be, and it
was a really special time because I got to know
my parents as an adult in a very different way.

(35:18):
And I think a lot of people had that experience
during the pandemic, where they were moving home just because
they wanted to be with their parents. It was a
universal thing. It wasn't like they had a personal career,
you know, fail out or something or something bad had happened.
It will something bad happened, but to all of us,
and so it can be a really wonderful way to
create a different kind of relationship that evolves on a

(35:40):
different level because you're both adults, still a parent child,
but you can see them very differently, and you can
also by the way, it's a great opportunity, and many
people had this during the pandemic, to have more candid
and specific conversations about estate planning if that's something relevant
to your family, and sort of their wishes, and understanding
your parents goal u and seeing them as humans because

(36:02):
we don't always see our parents as actual humans. We
just see them in the context of relating to us.
We don't always understand their life. And I think that's
always interesting to hear too. Yeah, let's talk more about
that relational dynamic and kind of how you have these
money conversations as your kids do leave, leave the nest,
fly the coop, and and kind of you know, have

(36:22):
their own place and begin to build their own lives.
We'll talk more about that with you, Bobby when we
get back from this break. All right, we're back from
the break talking with Bobby about kids, kids and money
and Bobby, you know, I'm still thinking about sort of

(36:43):
there's there's a part of me that feels that where
I'm trying to figure out if the responsibility like lies
with the parents or if it lies with the kids
when it comes to maybe like an inability to launch
and and so like I mean, like, why is it
that you might think that it's more difficult these days
for kids growing up to experience some sort of financial
separate ration like from their parents. Is it Is it
because that we're being maybe too proactive in their lives, because,

(37:06):
like you said, if it's mutual, then it can work out, right, Like,
as a parent, you think you've got some more time
with the kids, the kids are like, sweet, don't have
to pay for housing. I can say about that down payment.
But obviously, if if the parents were maybe being too forward,
or if they're leaning into it too much. I feel
like that that could be the problem. That in fact,
the problem lies with us as parents more than maybe
it does with the kids. I think there's a lot

(37:27):
to be said for that. I think we really should
be examining the way that we're parenting. Because we're parenting,
you know, we're leading with love, which is great, but
we also have to make sure that we you know,
we're in the business of creating grown ups. As Ron
Lieber says in my book he wrote it. He wrote
a book called The Opposite of Spoiled, and he's like,
at the end of the day, parents are in the
business of creating grown ups, and so we have to

(37:48):
kind of keep that top of mind all the time.
Is what I'm doing, creating a grown up that can
live a life independent of me, because ultimately we probably
won't be there at some point in the future. And
we also want to evolve our relationship with them to
be a different kind of relationship where they are not
dependent on us. And I joke in the book that
it's perfectly fine to pay for dinner for your kids.

(38:09):
It's perfectly fine to you know, if you have a
daughter and you want to get well mint and we
can do this to you want to go to Spot,
Blurge or whatever all that stuff. You know, this is
the opposite of the you know, the needs versus wants.
Buy your kid the wants, but avoid the needs for
your adult kid. Don't pay their rent, right, but you know,
if they're moving in. I mean, sure, we bought Ashley
some furniture when she moved in. It's a one time purchase.

(38:30):
It's going to make her life more comfortable. We're happy
to do that. But we don't pay her mortgage. We
don't pay her ongoing maintenance. She takes care of those
things and we're not getting involved. And she's now buying
a puppy and it took a year and a half
for her to get to the point where she could
afford it. And we just observed, you know, And we
are obsessed with dogs. If anyone sees my instagram, my

(38:50):
social media, I am an obsessed with my dog Waffles.
There's nothing I wanted more than a little playmate for Waffles.
But we resisted and we let her take her time,
and she didn't ask for money, and I think that's
really an important thing. To remember that very often our
children are not asking, we are giving, and there's a
big difference. So wait for the ask, and if you

(39:10):
get an ask, consider it and think carefully. I am
in the business of raising a grown up. Should I
just give them the money? Or should I let them
know that I believe in them and then I'm confident
that they can figure out how to solve the problem
themselves without my money. Maybe you make some contribution. It's
not that you're going to cut them off. I don't
think that's realistic. Um, we choke. We joke about my

(39:33):
my former podcast host Joe Saucihi, who has stacking benae,
but his parents cut him off completely at eighteen and
the results were not good. Guys. We ran its whole
kinds of credit card debt. It was not good. So
I don't think that people are still not that great.
It is not good. So I don't believe in cutting
kids off. But I do think that you want to

(39:54):
get them to a place where they're going to sort
of exit themselves from dependence on you. And again, that
doesn't mean that you can't subsidize them temporarily or create
systems where if you are in a situation where they
might one day inherit money. You want to teach them
how to manage that money. Well, you don't want a
kid to blow an inheritance that might involve, you know,
involving third party people that maybe can be a little

(40:16):
bit tougher. If you don't feel you can be the
tough one and say this is money that it's only
for an emergency that you're going to inherit and you're
never you're not supposed to live on that money, maybe
you get a third party involved if you don't feel
that you want your relationship to go that way. So
it's important to think about that. If you have a
kid that you know not every kid is going to
embrace this, So you might want to put up guardrails
to know that they're going to have financial security in

(40:37):
the future if you can set something up so that
they have other people looking out for them if you're
not there. Because I'd like to believe that every kid
is going to step up and be able to take
care of themselves and be financially responsible and be interested
enough to learn to manage their money. But if we're
being honest, not every kid will. Yeah, so I gets
it makes me think, especially as so your daughter. She

(41:00):
she's like really, she's out on her own in so
many ways. Now, how do you how do you continue
to and I know, right, yeah, I'm sure you're you're
still very vigilant, but how how do you continue to
enter into money conversations with her? And how do you
recommend people who have now grown kids, uh to to
kind of continue talking about money together? Are you are

(41:20):
you proactively asking questions about their levels of debt, savings
or or how they're investing journey is going? Or do
you more like let them come to you? How do
you act as a coach still in that way or
at least like an interested observer without being overbearing as
they are like listen, mom, I've got this. I'm doing
my own thing, Like you don't need to worry. How
how do you like, I don't know, worry well, maybe worry? Well,

(41:42):
I think it's a good way of saying it. Yeah again, Well,
first of all, again, I know I probably have said
this many times. Every kid is different, every circumstances different,
and you as a parent are going to be different
from me as a parent. So with all that said, specifically,
because you asked about Ashley. What's fascinating is now she
comes to me, And that's also partially because you know her.
Her stepmom wrote this book, and she's in the book

(42:05):
a lot, and she wrote the epilog, so she feels
very attached and she comes to me proudly and will
tell me things. You know, she's been very involved with
the research for this puppy um. You know, understanding I
think she's paying a lot of money for it, but
she did a lot of research about what is the
appropriate amount to pay for this kind of dog and
this setting and pricing the airline flights to get out

(42:25):
there and transport that, all the stuff down to the
vet bills and the vet the insurance. So she's proactively
telling me because she knows I'm gonna be proud of her.
You know that she shopped around for the vet, and
she shopped around for this and and so on. So
in that when you get a kid who's motivated and
interested and feel successful, they will likely start telling you

(42:45):
what's going on. And she she even sends me like
um screen grabs of texts from her friends, some of
whom are not feeling successful financially, sort of asking her
for advice. Or lamenting that they'll never be able to
move out of their parents house. And it's like, well,
you know, you've been living at home for two en
fo years, but you haven't saved anything. And if you're
making a reasonable salary and you have literally no overhead,

(43:06):
you know, when you've got stimulus checks and all the
stuff that's been going on in the pandemic, like, come on, guys,
like you should have a nest egg. Right. So she
sort of gets I don't want to say annoyed her friends,
but she sort of feels like they need to get
it together. So she's she she's very appreciative. I think
of the fact that we pushed her and it wasn't
always easy. So I want people to know that it's

(43:27):
not always easy. There were a lot of fights about
that Disney thing because I did disagree with it, but
then again, we've done stuff. Look, I I bought an
apartment at twenty three, and I promptly took out a
home equity alone to pay for Hampton's share. If that's
worse than the Disney thing, let's right. I went into
debt to go to the Hampton's stuff the course, correct,

(43:50):
I mean, that's the thing the course correct. And you know,
if a kid isn't bringing stuff up to you, there's
nothing wrong. There's always something happening in life. You know. Look, people,
you can talk to your kid about crypto and NF
tease because that's something that they might be hearing about.
You know that your kid is on you know, whatever
social media channels and I'm drawing a blank now about
my fourteen year old. Um, he's on what's it called.

(44:12):
But anyway, you know, go on the accounts even you
don't have to even follow them, but just understand what
they're doing. But he he has a whole understanding of
different meme stocks and things like that because that's something
that's talked about Reddit. Um. You know, they're on those things,
so you can start conversations about what's going to be
of interest to them. Like, I love what you said specifically,

(44:33):
he's still at home and so there's a runway still
ahead of you with your daughter, Ashley. I love that
you said that she she comes back to you and
she talks about this, and what that points to is
the fact that you have a healthy relationship with her
and had you not been working towards this from maybe
a fairly early age that this is not something that
you would have been able to achieve, right like like

(44:53):
sort of like we're saying earlier on, you can't just
flip a switch. It's not like all of a sudden
they're going to open up to you about their finances
if that's not a part of your language, if that's
not a part of your family culture. And so I
think so much of this also just depends on you
starting it early. Not being a massive deal. This this
big in the hard work over years. Yeah. It also
making a kid know that you're proud of them, that

(45:14):
you know, she feels successful, she is successful, and she's
proud of it, and so she's coming to me for
that approval because she's successful. And I think the biggest
thing that parents need to do is let your kids
know that you believe in them, that you know they
can solve their problems. You're there for them, But give
them that confidence. In addition to the actual information, which

(45:35):
is super important of course, and making sure that they
are listening to the right information sources. So when I
talk about Reddit, be careful there, you know, be careful
where they're getting their information and ask them questions about that,
but make sure that they know that you they got this,
they can do it. No, I love it. The encouragement,
the belief in your kids goes so far, It goes

(45:57):
further than then you even realize. And so every time
my mom or dad says they're proud of me, even
still at the ripe old age of thirty eight, it
goes a long stinking way in motivating me and in
making me feel like you're right, I can do it.
So you know, when your parents believe in you, this
guy's the limit. Bobby, thank you so much for coming
on the show today talking to us about raising financial

(46:18):
grown ups. And yeah, can you tell our audience more
about where they can find out what you're up to
and they can find out about your new book. Yeah,
so you can learn about launching Financial grown Ups on
my website which is just my name Bobby Rebel dot com.
It's available all over the place, but you know, certainly
you can pick it up on Amazon or or support
your local bookstore. That's always a good thing to say, right,

(46:39):
guys and um, please check out my podcast which is
Money Tips for Financial grown Ups. And if you want
gifts for the different adultsing milestones in life, please check
out grown up gear dot com. How's that for a plug? Right?
Grown up here is It's all kinds of cute stuff.
It's aprons, hats, t shirts. I even have baby gifts
on there, so it's super cute, fun stuff that I'm

(46:59):
have a lot of fun with. And yeah, grown up
gear dot com is super fun. One get born. Yeah. Oh,
and I have ventured onto TikTok. So I'm on all
the social channels basically under my name Instagram. There's a
one after Bobby Rebel, but I'm on TikTok now. And
so if you want to really see some cringe e
middle aged content, go follow me on right by the way, Bobby,

(47:21):
when you get beer muggs, let us know too, because
that's what Okay, definitely absolut all right, Bobby, thanks again
for joining us. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having
me awesome, Bobby, Thank you so much. Joel, what ay,
that was a fun conversation, you know, like when you
start on the topic of talking about your kids, that's
something I think that we could easily continue for a while.
We've got plenty of kids, but a gaggle I believe

(47:44):
to discuss. But yeah, what were your big takeaways from
this episode here with Bobby Rebel. Okay, so I think
my big takeaway was, and I love the way she
put this was that you should buy your kid the wants,
not the needs. Okay, I'm gonna have to switch it up.
How is thinking to go? That was? That was such
a good one because it was it was a good
rule of thumb that pointed out how we can find

(48:06):
ways just you know, not necessarily to support our kids,
because support sounds like a need, but to kind of
treat them or to kind of like lavish you know,
like gifts up on them, because like that is how
you show love. You don't necessarily pay for rent. Like
that isn't a gift. What is a gift? A gift
is a once it's something that you don't necessarily need,
but it's something that you might enjoy. Yeah, exactly. And

(48:28):
I think like when my parents will occasionally take me
out to dinner or or Emily's mom will come in
town and she'll take us out or something like that,
and and to me that means so much. It's just
it's this way that they are taking care of us
when they really don't have to, and it's super sweet,
but it would feel very different if they were taking
care of some of those basic monthly expenses, or we
were on their cell phone play and we didn't pay
our own way, or those are those are things that

(48:49):
would make me feel dependent as opposed to loved. And
so I think that's a really really good way to
put it. If you can buy your kids some some
of their wants on occasion, give them something show that's
that they didn't even ask for. But when it comes
to the needs, when it comes to those month month obligations,
that's where you want to kind of draw the line
and you want to let them be in control as
they get older. Awesome, I love that, dude. Okay, so mine,

(49:12):
uh that I am now switching here at the last
minute was sort of came at the beginning of our
conversation with Bobby and she was talking about her dad
and how she kind of recounted a lot of these
things that he did when she was growing up that
he doesn't even remember. Uh. And I don't necessarily think
it's because of old age. I think it's oftentimes there
are things that we aren't very deliberate about. And I

(49:34):
think it's safe to say that Bobby turned out pretty well. Uh,
and so I think that as a lot of encouragement,
right like, like we can oftentimes I think a lot
of us can look back at our childhoods as we
were raised and how we were taught or in this case,
you know, in a lot of cases not taught about money.
We turned osmosis factor. Yeah, we re turned out fine.
And so I want this to be encouragement for a

(49:54):
lot of folks because bottom line, if you are even
thinking about it right now at all, I feel like
that you are a head of the game and that
you're going to be able to impart a lot of
wisdom to your kid. Uh. And just don't forget that
encouragement part, right like that. That's that's one of the
things that that Bobby touched on there at the end,
just that encouragement, finding that way to build some of
that confidence in your kid. Obviously they can't do whatever

(50:14):
they want they you know, they can't conquer the world.
We don't want to plant these lofty ideas that truly
are never going to happen, but to instill actual confidence
within them, because you have talked about some of these
things over time, sometimes all they need is just like
a little pep talk, uh, so that they know that
they've that they can handle it on their own. It
goes a long way believing your kids and to be
that little boost kind of pushing them from behind, you know,

(50:36):
it means, it means a lot, and it helps them
go further. But all right, Matt, well, what was your
what your thoughts on this beer? Today? On the episode
we have a beer called farm Friends. It was a
collaboration by Jester King and New Image. It's like a
peach wild ale. What are your thoughts on this one? Yeah,
I might characterize it less as like a wild ale
and and and definitely more as as a sour like
it definitely has that kind of tartness going on in

(50:56):
my mind, it has a little bit less of the funkiness,
which oftentimes is how you know, what I associate with
wild ailes. But I want to read some of the
ingredients on here because what stood out to me is
the fact that it says barn age tops on here.
And I don't know if that's just for the brand,
you know, like this beer is called farm Friends, and
were they thinking, all right, it's not just age tops.
We gotta say that you are getting the actual barn hops,

(51:19):
the hops slept with the sheep and the cows. They're
gonna smell like horse blink. But I know this is
a nice sour beer, nice hartness with I would say,
as a couple of guys from Georgia, as a nice
amount of peachness going on, not too much because you
don't want like over the top fruit sweetness going on,
but just the right amount to lend it that flavor.

(51:39):
I really enjoyed it. What were your thoughts? So, yeah,
I would say light, peachy, refreshing and have this kind
of dry finish to it as well. So I really
enjoyed it because it did have the peaches going on,
and like you said, we're from Georgia, we like peaches.
Of course the peach date baby he got to. But yeah,
I thought this beer kind of had a lot of
different things going for it, and it wasn't quite as

(52:00):
intense as a lot of sour ales. It had just
kind of a lightness to it, a freshness to it
that I appreciate it. It's probably probably the barney tops
is what that is. But no, it was really tasty.
I enjoyed it. It's those those cold Nights with the Sheep.
That's right, but we will make sure to link to
the different resources and sites that Bobby mentioned during our
interview with her, and you can find all of those

(52:21):
up on our website at how the Money dot com.
There within our show notes. That's right. And if you're
still lagging the competition, you still haven't signed up for
our how do Money email newsletter. Make sure you got
to how the Money DITM slash newsletter. Signed up for
that junk and get it in your inbox every Tuesday.
You'll be glad you did. All right, that's gonna do
it for this episode, Matt. Until next time, Best Friends Out,
Best Friends Out,