Start Talking About Money #047

Money oftentimes feels like a topic that is off-limits when it comes to discussions you have with your friends. Is it because it’s too personal? Maybe you feel it’s none of your business? A big part of why we started How to Money is because we feel that money conversations need to happen more often. Talking about money shines a light on it and brings about awareness, which can ultimately lead to improvement as we all have room to grow. Listen as we discuss some of the major ways you’re likely missing out if you’re not talking about money. And then we wrap it up with some practical tips that can help you when it comes to striking up a money conversation with your friends and family.

During this episode we enjoyed a Zoose Joose by Westbrook and Angry Chair which you can find and learn all about on Untappd. And if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and give us a quick review in Apple Podcasts, Castbox, or wherever you get your podcasts!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt,
and today we're going to convince you to start talking
about money. Joel, what's going on, man? What's up, buddy?

(00:27):
So you know the car we got from Carbona, it
only came with a single key fob. And we've talked
about this because you were commenting on the wire that
I had wrapped around the electronics portion to hold it together,
because when I would stick it into the ignition to
turn it, it would want to rip apart, which is
no good man. It was a little awkward, precarious the
way you had to set up. Yeah, the metal kind

(00:47):
of poked out a little bit too, so we kind
of like cut your hand. You could like stabling your
kids accidentally with it or something. But seriously, for weeks
I have been concerned that it was gonna snap off
in the ignition while I am far from home, and
that I would be stranded. It's specifically that it would
end up costing me a ton of money to have
to pay for a mobile key service to show up,
have to pay their exorbitant rates, and then a few
hundred dollars later I then have a working key, right,

(01:12):
And so it kind of came down for me to
this question of am I being cheap or am I
being frugal by not replacing the key? And by the way, man,
a lot of people get ripped off by locksmiths. There
are so many locksmith scams it's not even funny. And
most of the locksmith scammers have really gamed the Google rankings.
So if you google somebody local that's a locksmith, the

(01:32):
chances are that the few ads that you're gonna see
at the top are going to be from a scam
artist who's going to quote you over the phone. Then
it's gonna be thirty bucks, and then they show up
and it's two so it's like a thirty dollar minimum.
Well that's the thing, dude. I So I was calling
around to a bunch of the places in Atlanta and
that's and they were all kind of shady. They either
had a mobile set up where the guy would show
up to wherever you are, which I understand because a

(01:52):
lot of times that's what you need for a mobile locksmith,
but a lot of them are kind of vague. They
would either say that there's like a third dollar minimum
or something like that, but then they're like, well, It
just kind of depends on the key, depends on the
programming that has to take place. And so I would say, okay,
well I'll tell you what I have. It's a you know,
it's a Honda, this is this is what I need,
and they would just say, oh, it just depends you
just they have to be there to see. And I

(02:14):
did not like that at all. You definitely don't want
to go with a company that, when you give them
the information, they refused to get quote at least take
a ballpark. Yes. And so because of that though, I've
been avoiding getting the stupid key fixed, and we're not fixed.
I just wanted to get another one made, but I
was afraid, especially after we did our episode on Are
You Frugal or Are You Cheap? I thought to myself, Dude,
this is something that is going to end up costing

(02:35):
me way more money because I'm gonna be strained somewhere.
I'm gonna have to pay out THEA knows because we're
going to be in a situation where we need to
get the van, where we need to get the car
and head out somewhere right away. And so I finally
did my research though, and found a place that was
a little bit outside of Atlanta. It was two double wides,
kind of pushed together, the kind of place that you
want to go for sure. But they did have good

(02:56):
reviews and I called them. They gave me a straight
up quote, and dude, I've had a working factory Honda
key fob and I've got two of them now for
just over a hundred bucks. I just wanted to share
that because this is an instance where I felt had
I kept kind of piecing it together. Literally, I could
have I was using tape, I was, or I had
wire wrapped around there. I'd like kind of cut out
a little notch, you know, to hold the key together.

(03:16):
But I knew that eventually that was gonna end up
costing me way more. And even though I had to pay,
you know, over a hundred bucks for this, I knew
that it was most definitely worthwhile because it was gonna
keep me from having to pay more down the road. Yeah,
save you from being stranded or high and dry. It
gives you the chance to do like some research from
your desk, you know, while I find that right company

(03:37):
without the stress. Yes, yeah, oh my gosh, that just
sounds awful. Being strainded with the key, and then a
lot of people too would have probably gone to the
dealership to get a new key made. And it's true
that some of those programmable keys are a little more
difficult to make them. They used to be, right. You
can't just take your car key to the minute key Kiosk,
how your Kroger or your Lows or whatever it is.

(03:58):
But you're still not at the mercy of the dealership
because they would have charged you probably per key set.
I would imagine there's something close to that. Yeah, I
would think so easy, it gets pretty outrageous. So you know,
doing your research, finance someone else that does it on
your own time before that inevitable breakdown miles away from
home happens where your key falls apart. That's the way
to do it, man, Yeah, And I think that is frugal. Right,

(04:19):
that's planning ahead. I was able to do my research. Yeah, Yeah,
that's planning ahead and not just leaving it to the
whims of chance where you're in a much more frustrating
position and in a position where you are probably gonna
pay off the nose in order to get something fixed. Yeah, certainly, man.
What I'm saying is I just felt like an adult
while I was doing it, all right, Sometimes that sort
of takes right. We gotta feel like an adult exactly.

(04:40):
All right, let's introduce the beer, Matt that we're drinking today,
Zoos Juice by Westbrook Brewing Company and Angry Chair Brewing Company.
So this is a collaboration beer collaboration. Yeah, Man, you
pick this up at your local favorites craft beer shop.
And what kind of beer is this? Yeah? So this
is something I don't think I've ever had before. It's
a sour wheat l brewed with a bunch of different

(05:01):
stuff tangerine, pineapple, cherry, coconut, lactose, and marshmallows. So they
put the whole kitchens in this. So I'm really pumped
to drink this one today, share it with you. We'll
fill everybody in on what the what this beer tastes
like at the end of the show. Cheers, man, thanks
for picking that up. All right, So onto the subject
at hand. We want people to start talking about money, Matt,
and in particular, we want people to start having conversations
about personal finance with their family and friends, and Matt.

(05:24):
That's part of the reason that we started this whole
podcast was We wanted to have these conversations because they're
fun for us, but we also kind of wanted to
spur those conversations on for other people and give them
something to talk about. Honestly, a podcast is one of
the best ways to start a conversation about money because
you can both listen to something and then come back
together to talk about it. And so I know that
a lot of couples have used Financial Education podcast as

(05:46):
a way to kind of spur talking about those issues
and trying to get on the same page and unite.
This episode is dedicated to helping spur those conversations in
individual homes and in relationships. We just wanted to be
more of an open dialogue because there's a huge issue
surrounding the way we talk about money in our country.
That's right, man, and it's just bizarre, almost right, how

(06:07):
these money conversations aren't a part of our life. We
we talk about so many different things with our friends,
We talk about things that might even seem more intimate
and like personal with each other, but then for whatever reason,
a lot of times friends and even family members as well,
they just don't talk about their finances. But regardless of why,
most folks don't talk about money. When you don't talk
about money, you don't get better at it, right, And

(06:28):
so we all have room for improvement, and so we're
here to talk about it. We're here to talk about
how much we spend on groceries, or we're here to
talk about the amount of money or putting aside in
our fur own case. And ultimately, like the end goal
that we're trying to work towards by being spart with
our money is financial independence. These are all sort of
things throughout life that we want to talk about and
hopefully shut some light and help this topic not be

(06:51):
something that feels so off limits with you and your friends. Yeah,
and something that kind of struck me recently. Matt was
seeing some of the articles surround owning the topic of
financial independence, that there have been a lot of them
in major media publications recently, and just to kind of
see the takes that some are kind of this positive
spin on the idea of financial independence, and especially people

(07:13):
that are younger achieving financial independence, and then to see
the other side where it's kind of mocked and made
fun of. And to me, it's no wonder that people
don't want to talk about money that they don't want
to get honest about it. They don't want to get
real because on one hand, we're told that millennials in
particular are stupid with money, they don't know how to invest,
they're not thinking about the future, they want to rent,

(07:36):
they're not buying into the standard American dream. So they're
being mocked publicly by people that are older than them,
that who write the articles. And then on the on
the other hand, there's this young group of people who
are trying to get their financial game in order, who
want to change the narrative, who are handling their finance
as well, who are stocking away money for the future
in stocks, in real estate. There are people that are

(07:57):
are trying to be prepared right, and then they get
mocked from the other side who says that that's ridiculous
to think that you can get your financial act in
order and be financial independent at an early age. And
so I think this narrative it stems from the stuff
that we read in major financial publications. So let's just
like you and I, let's let's say cut the crap,
and and we're gonna say it's okay. It doesn't matter

(08:18):
what Yahoo Finance says or seeing in money or any
of those guys. You control the way you talk about
money in your life with the people that you care about,
with your friends and with your your family, And so
we're gonna give you kind of some practical tips in
this episode for how to open up those lines of communication,
for how to kind of transition money away from being
a taboo subject in your house or where you live

(08:40):
with your spouse maybe even and try to kind of
make it a more approachable topic. So that's kind of
our goal here in this episode. I mean, I love
that you mentioned millennials as well, because millennials, of all
the generations that were out there for a recent survey,
they are the most willing to talk about their finances
with their friends. But that being said, overall, seventy Americans
still feel that it's rude to talk about their personal

(09:02):
finances in social situations, which, man, it is just again
just bizarre that there's just so many things that we
discuss as friends or as family members, but money and
just how we relate to money, and how what we
spend our money on and the amount that we're saving.
These are just topics that we that we tend to
avoid and it seems like the super taboo subject of
politics or another super taboo subject of sex, like those

(09:27):
are subjects that we actually feel more comfortable broaching, oh yeah,
than the topic of money. It seems like that that
the topic of money has almost more of a poll
like on our heart, And if someone asks you a
question in a social setting about politics or sex, you
might feel more comfortable answering a question about probably those
subjects than you even would about money, which I think

(09:48):
it's fascinating, which seems to be true to me just
from kind of the experiences I've had talking with people
about money. And then it also just seems odd, right
that we were so uncomfortable with that topic as a whole.
And I think what it comes down to, Matt, is
that most of us are just really, really bad with money,
and that's why we feel so uncomfortable broaching the subject.
I mean, and I think it's a cultural thing as well.
I think a lot of times folks are raised to

(10:09):
not talk about money. It's not something they grew up
hearing their parents talk about. And because of that, it's
something that they translate into their own personal lives with
their own friends and with their own family. It's like etiquette, right.
You can blame that on the Emily post. She's like
the etiquette queen, I guess, and I have my silver
ware on the correct side at all times. Gotta use
that salad forward, dude. Yeah, Matt, and you and I

(10:30):
both also think that one of the benefits of getting
our friends and our family talking about money with us
and having those conversations, it seems to make it more
fun for everyone if we can actually start to have
that conversation. Right, It might be awkward in the beginning,
but ultimately it leads to more fun because we're able
to talk about something that matters to us, that we
care about. Especially if you're listening to the show and
you've been learning a little bit more about personal finance,

(10:52):
you're you're kind of getting into it, and you're kind
of realizing that the more you learn about how you
handle money, how to save more of your money, and
then how to invest wisely, just kind of prioritizing, you know,
money going into the future, it kind of becomes like lonely,
and you you want to share it with the people
that you care about the most, and if you can't,
that sucks, Right, You want to be able to share

(11:13):
to the things that you care about the most, and
so ultimately it's more fun to share the things that
you care about, you know, just like Matt and I
share a beer every week, it's it's fun to to
share the things that matter to you. What we're gonna say,
you're gonna share your your money with me as well?
Now because I'm I'm okay with that, I'll talk about
it with you. No sharing on that on that front. Yeah, man,
Well it's more fun, right, but it's awesome more effective,

(11:34):
Like how much more effective is it going to be
if you've got your group, your friend group, or you've
got your tribe, and this is something that you're all
talking about, this is part of your conversation, as part
of the dialogue that you have with each other. And
the times where I found myself excelling the most and
whatever area of my life where the whether it be
working out or academics in college, when we're really trying

(11:54):
to do well, it was when I was working with
the group, when I had friends that we're doing it
with me when we're all striving towards the same goal.
And I think the same thing applies when it comes
to money and being smart with your money and investing
like all the things that we typically talk about on
the show. And for that reason alone, man, get some
people around you. You have that accountability and yeah, like
you said, it's just way more fun. Yeah. I think really,

(12:15):
when it comes down to the people that you hang
out with the most, they rub off on you in
a major way. And so you are going to essentially
reflect the five people that you spend the most amount
of time with. And if those five people aren't talking
about money, well, I'm not saying diet your friends, right,
that's that's you could find another friend that can maybe
I don't know, yeah, but at least try to work

(12:37):
in like a new friend who's really good at numbers
exactly exactly bring on that six friends. But another way
to tackle that problem is to start opening those lines
of communication so that you can bring those five friends
that you're really close to into some of those discussions
about money topics that matter to you. That makes me
think of Kevin Hart. Have you heard his Uh, there's
a stand up bit that he does. It's it's called

(12:58):
stay in your Financial Lane, where you talk about hanging
out with professional athletes. Yes, I've seen it. It's super funny.
I'm not gonna at all try to imitate him, but
he talks everybody wishes that I wouldn't trust me. But
he talks about hanging with professional athletes who make tons
of money, and how when he hangs out with them,
it pressures him into making unwise financial decisions. And it's

(13:21):
hilarious and it's not safe for work, so listen on
your own time. But dude, it is so funny and
it's so true, right, Like that's the heart of any comedy,
Like a good comic, right is there's truth and and
and what he's saying there about that, it's absolutely true.
We are way more influenced by our friends and they're
spending habits, and not only they're spending habits, but their

(13:42):
savings habits as well, and everything from what they do
spend to what they don't spend. Man, it is also important.
And so maybe yeah, look up, look up, Kevin Hart,
stay in your financial lane if you have an extra minute. Yeah, man,
the thing that you said it is a second ago
about your five closest friends and sort of bearing their
savings and habits. I think I've heard something similar in
regards to your net worth where your five closest friends. Essentially,

(14:06):
you're the average of your five closest friends. And so essentially,
if you look at your the net worth of your
five closest friends or what you're what they make, you
should fall right in the average, like right in the
middle of all all five of those. Yeah, man, I
feel like, honestly, you and I are probably perfect examples
for how if we weren't friends, we would probably both
be pretty good with money. But the fact that we
are friends and we talk about it, I feel like

(14:28):
we just spur each other on, oh yeah man, towards
being better, digging deeper, going harder, whatever it is, like
when it comes to investing in rental properties, or when
it comes to investing a little bit more for the
future in our retirement accounts. I feel like our discussions
directly affect my bottom line when it when it comes
to how I handle money. And they're fun too write,

(14:49):
and so I think that's what's crucial to note here
is that it's not that you have to ditch your
friends and find new ones. It said, it's important to
have those conversations because because they're gonna be good for
your friends hips. It's an important topic, right, it affects
all of us, and then also it's going to affect
your bottom line. You're gonna be better at your money
when you're able to talk about it openly with the

(15:09):
people that you're close to. That's right, man, And so
let's go ahead and take a quick break. But right
after that, we're gonna talk about some of the specific
ways that you are missing out by not talking about money.
All right, Matt, we're back in the break and we're

(15:29):
about to get to some specific ways that you're missing
out if you're not having these conversations about money. But first,
let's talk about some of the reasons why people aren't
talking about their money, because there are certain roadblocks in
our way and it's just important to be aware of them.
And some of those roadblocks are completely understandable to to
why we don't have these conversations to begin with. And
so we hinted at this one before the break. But

(15:51):
one of the reasons why people aren't talking about their
money it stems from financial illiteracy. Learning about money is intimidating,
and a lot of times there's just no structural system.
There's nothing in place really to teach us. Only five
states in the US right now require formal education in
high school for personal finance. Man and in those five states,
like they only require a single semester of a class

(16:13):
that deals with personal finance, and that is so little. Yeah,
that's a huge bummer. I'm a huge proponent of personal
finance education happening in schools, and it's such a bummer
that it doesn't happen kids when you're sixteen, seventeen, eighteen.
It's those are such formative years to start learning about
finance and money and how that's going to impact you.
We learned a lot about macroeconomics, but when it comes

(16:34):
to the microeconomics of your personal financial life, I feel
like we're completely missing the boat. So most kids graduate
high school not having any idea how to open a
credit card or what sort of impact that's going to
have on your life if you do. They don't know
how to open a bank account or balance a checkbook.
And I mean checkbooks are old school, right, so that

(16:54):
might not be a skill you're gonna need for much longer.
But I just wish that it was more of a thing.
And the great thing, I guess is with the advent
of technology, so much great learning is happening online or
on phones, right, Like you've got all the apps and
all that's just right there at your fingertips. Kind of
gamifies it a little bit, makes it fun. Yeah. The
the tough thing is is helping the younger generation figure

(17:15):
out where they need to go in order to get
that education. So it's out there. But then how do
we reach young kids with that information that they so
sorely need, but hopefully in a way that that's package
that they can relate to. But yeah, it's a huge
problem that kids are graduating with really no basic level
of understanding when it comes to personal finances. And I agree,
when you're completely illiterate at something, you don't want to

(17:36):
talk about it. If you don't know how to read,
you're not going to talk about books, just this common sense, right.
And if you don't know how to do anything about money,
if you don't know how to money right, you're just
not going to talk about it. Yeah, and so on
the note, how did you as as young Joel, how
did how did you learn a lot about personal finance
and and how to make the right decisions once it

(17:57):
came to spending and saving your own money? Question is
super personal and you know what, I love that we're
able to talk about that all the sho because that's
what we're into and so, you know, just to be
honest with everyone out there. Uh, my parents weren't great
with money growing up. They are lovely people, truly my heroes. Like,
if there were two people you said you can be

(18:19):
like any two people in the world, who do you
want to be like, I'd say my mom and dad,
like for real. But they weren't great with money, and
they didn't talk about money very well with me, and
so I feel like, more than anything, I learned from
them not handling it incredibly well. That's not probably the
best way that you want to learn about money. But
then again, I didn't necessarily have to learn from a
lot of bad beats on my own, so I definitely

(18:40):
learned from that. But they also did really help me
along when I was young, encouraged me to to get
a job when I was younger, and that like sort
of entrepreneurial bent that I have definitely came from my
parents helping me and encouraging me when I wanted to
get out there in the workforce, when I wanted to
start mowing lawns when I was eleven. You know, my
dad was there every Saturday helping me mobile lawns, helping

(19:01):
me get the customers and keep them happy and stuff
like that. So there was kind of both sides. And
then as I grew up landing a job in financial
media that helped a lot, I was immersed in it
every day. I was reading every day, and then that
was my job, but it became my curiosity. On the side,
I was listening to podcasts and watching YouTube videos and
just immersing myself in the subject because it was just

(19:21):
fascinating to me. I loved it. So yeah, I mean,
I feel like it's been something that's been a passion
of mine for as long as I can remember at
this point, But what about you, Well, you want to
hear a funny story because you're talking about your parents,
and it made me think of I learned a lot
from my parents, learned a lot from my dad. I
left him, you know, I didn't learn about from my dad.
We're c d s, which sounds funny to say. I
remember writing around with him. He had when when when
you say CDs are you talking compact discs? Are you talking? Well,

(19:44):
that's the that's the heart of the story because as
a kid, I remember riding around with him and he
had this sweet Z twenty eight Camaro and we would
you would get it all shiny on Saturdays and we'd
kind of ride around in it sometimes on Saturday afternoon.
Your dad so cool. He had a sweet car. It
was loud, I remember that. But yeah, we would drive
around and we would listen to music. We listened to,

(20:06):
you know, he had CDs. That was the era of
the compact disc And during one of those rides, I
remember him specifically teaching me and trying to tell me,
you know, like a life lesson story and talking about investing,
and he specifically brought up CDs and how maybe I
should consider investing in those. But the problem is is
I didn't know what the heck he was talking about,
and I was too dumb, I guess, to ask. And
so I was just like, I don't want to invest

(20:28):
in compact discs. I'm pretty young, but I think that's
a pretty bad investment. I'm pretty sure they dropped precipitously
in value right as I right as I take the
plastic wrap off. Yeah, I mean I would go to
CD warehouse and you know, I get my music there
and stuff like that, but actually invest in c d s.
I remember thinking, I don't know how I'm supposed to
invest in c ds. But even if I did want
to do that, I don't. I just don't know how

(20:48):
do I just buy the disk and not listen to
it and I put it on the shelf like baseball cards.
I just don't know. So I guess that's a good
note for parents. When you're explaining financial terms to your kids,
make sure you explain in terminology they can understand. Yeah,
I think he did, but I was just like not
the window, probably not not paying attention. So that sounds
like yeah. So another reason that people aren't talking about
their money, Matt, is it's just not entertaining or fun

(21:11):
to talk about money for most people, like you. I
think you and I are outliers on that that we
think it's fun. Budgets seem boring or out of place,
or it feels like a forced conversation. Just money stuff
in general, and right, it's this invisible thing that you
kind of get to see what you can do with
your money, but it's not something that's attractive or fun
to be around. Like accountants, like those those guys aren't fun, right,
That's what I hear. Like I think of the oscars

(21:31):
like the award shows, and they always have that that
point when the accountants or the c p A is whatever,
they walk out and they've got the briefcases with the votes.
That's the most boring part of the show because they
just stand there and they talk about how they've made
sure that they did it right. It's like, all right,
that's cool, and then Steve Harvey bungles it all up
and what else. But yeah, we think there's ways around
that too. But that's definitely a reason why people don't
talk about their money. And another reason is you might

(21:53):
be afraid that your friends aren't going to reciprocate that
you do open the lines of communication and your friends
think it's ridiculou us and they shut you down immediately
and they change the subject to like Kendall Jenner's Instagram page,
I don't know, I don't what whatever whatever? What does
everyone else talk about? Hopefully not that right? But it
takes me in vulnerable, And that's what stuff about that
is you have to be vulnerable. You kind of have
to put yourself out there and not everyone is necessarily

(22:16):
willing to do that. It takes putting yourself in a
place of weakness a little bit, where like you said,
someone might you might even get made fun of a
little bit, or they might freak out and say why,
like why are you trying to get up in my business? Man?
This isn't something I ever talked about with anybody. I
don't even talk about this with my girlfriend or my wife, Like,
I'm not going to talk to you about it. But again,
we're here to say that these are conversations that you
should have, certainly with a significant other, but also too

(22:38):
with friends, because certainly there's just so many benefits and
by not doing that, you're certainly missing out. Yeah, and
I want to say to Matt that not doing this
can be harmful to all of us as a whole.
The more money is shrouded in secrecy and it's not
a topic that we feel like we can discuss openly,
the more our friends and our family and the people
we care about are going to get ripped off by

(22:59):
scams that are flowed around, or are going to run
to a financial advisor and spend way too much of
the money they don't have in order to get started investing, right,
And the more that we can talk about it and
talk about how easy money is, right, how it's so
much easier than you thought it was. You know, we
talked about that early on in our retirement Investing is
simpler than you think. Episode. The more that the topic

(23:21):
of money is shrouded in secrecy, the more our friends
and family are going to get hurt by overpaying, by overspending,
by not thinking about these things. Well, and I think
you know, if you're listening to this episode, it's our job,
numero uno, Right, it starts with us, like, let's start
that conversation because if not, we're doing a disservice to
the people that we care about the most. I think
that's right, man. And just in case you didn't think

(23:43):
that this was a big deal, right, we're gonna cover
now some specific ways that you are missing out if
you're not talking about money. So first off, you could
be missing out individually. And so we strive to be
money smart, you know, for our futures. Financial security, Like
that's something that we are working towards. We want to
have options with our life. Does that mean that we
want to retire and not do anything once we hit

(24:03):
a certain age. No, but we want to have options.
And so for you as an individual, if you aren't
talking about money, you're not growing and you're not learning yourself,
and that's that's definitely gonna have an impact on you.
And it kind of sounds weird to say, maybe, but
your net worth, this is you and the amount of
money that you're able to set aside for the long term. Yeah, Matt,
and I feel like you and I have both benefited
as individuals from our money conversations and our money conversations

(24:26):
with our other friends. And so as a friend, you're
also going to be missing out if you're not talking
about money. So if you're not great with money, you
might have a friend who is a genius when it
comes to their personal finances who could help you along,
or vice versa. You might have a struggling friend and
you could be that friend to them, and that deeper
friendship from learning an entirely new side of each other,
asking questions, having that conversation about money that can really

(24:50):
deep in a relationship. Uh, if you're able to help
each other in that way. Yeah, we talk about everything
with our friends, just about right, why don't we talk
about money? We know, we ask our friends where should
I go for to take my wife out on a date,
Like whereas a new great beer that I can find.
We talk about all sorts of things with our with
our friends, but we don't talk about money. And that's
something that we can change right now. Yeah, Matt, and

(25:10):
we talked about how access to information when it comes
to money is ubiquitous now right there, blogs, their YouTube channels,
there's some great resources out there for you, but there's
nothing that beats, in my opinion, that face to face
conversation with a friend or around the table with a
few friends. That's sort of knowledge that you can get
from hearing someone's personal experience, or hearing what someone's learned

(25:32):
along the way and how they've changed and been able
to get their financial act together. Those sorts of actual
conversations with people that you live and do life with.
Those are the kind of conversations that are going to
help change you and spur you on way more than
just a block article you read on the internet. All
we talked about how you could be missing out individually,
how you could be missing out as a friend, and

(25:52):
now you could be missing out as a consumer, which
sounds weird. To say, right, a consumer, because that's you
spending money. But if you're not willing to ask what
the deals are out there or negotiate, say a lower
rate or subscription, you're gonna end up spending way more
every single month, right, because a lot of times these
are recurring bills, and so you're getting twenty dollars less
on your bill one month translates into twelve months, right,

(26:13):
and then you multiply that times however many bills that
you have. Granted, this isn't you specifically talking about money
with friends, but what we're saying is that by talking
about money more often with your friends, and if it's
a part of your sort of daily conversation, it is
not going to seem odd, right, or it's not gonna
seem foreign for you to talk about money with a
customer service representative or someone that's trying to sell you something.

(26:34):
This is a conversation that you can just strike up
because you're used to having it, and because of that,
as a consumer, you're going to get a better deal. Yeah,
and you might find out that you're smart. Friends, Sarah,
stop shopping a whole foods and went to all the
and it's saving like a hundred fifty bucks a month
on groceries. They're just all sorts of life hack conversations
that you can have when it comes to kind of
how we consume. And I love those conversations about, you know,

(26:54):
ways to save a buck because that those are the
easiest conversations probably to strike up. Right, Hey, how did
you negotiate that internet bill with Comcast? Or or I
heard you don't have cable anymore? What do you watch instead?
How do you get your content with? Those sorts of
questions are the kind of softball money questions that you
can have, and they kind of fall around consumption and

(27:15):
people like to talk about that a little bit more
than they like to talk about investing. Yeah, all those topics. Yeah,
another way you might be missing out if you're not
talking about money is as an employee, you might be
getting paid less because you're not willing to approach the
subject of money. Someone at the same job as you
could be getting paid more than you. And so the
fact that we're not talking about salary, and especially for women,

(27:38):
to study found out that forty six of women across
all industries believe that their gender is holding them back
from getting paid the amount that they deserve. So I
know it can be really awkward to talk about money
in the workplace, and that's why most people avoid it.
But we avoid it to our detriment. I think there
are smart ways that we can approach the subject of,
you know, what our pay is in the workplace without

(27:59):
completely rock in the boat. You mean, like sending a
company wide email and asking what everybody makes LinkedIn alert. Yeah, No,
definitely not that. But you know, there's a website glass
door dot com and that's a great website for kind
of checking salaries in your industry to make sure that
your pay is commensurate. And there are a couple other
quick tips that we can throw out there, and one
is to talk to someone who's an actual friend where

(28:21):
you work, right, it's kind of awkward to ask the
person that works next to you how much they get paid.
But if there's someone that you work with that you've
become really close to through the years and you view
them more as a friend than just a coworker, talking
to them about pay is helpful. And in particular talking
to people that are in the same industry as you
but work for other employers. That's a really good way

(28:41):
to kind of broach the conversation about money and pay
and it could also drastically affect how much you get
paid every two weeks just by you know, asking those
questions and opening the lines of communication a little bit.
And lastly, you could be missing out as a parent,
So by not teaching your kids about money, you could
be perpetuating the cycle of poor spending and poor saving.

(29:02):
I think it's worth noting the impact that parents have
on their children when it comes to money. What you're
able to teach, and not only teach, but demonstrate to
your your children can have a huge impact. And don't
underestimate that at all. Yeah, Matt and his parents, we
lead by what we do, by our example, right, And
I think a lot of times parents think, as long
as I'm not screwing my kids up by telling them

(29:23):
all the terrible ways that I've handled money, then they'll
be okay. But our kids are learning from the fact
that we're not talking about it. They're learning something very
specific when we refuse to open the lines of communication
and we refuse to talk to them and include them
in money decisions and teach them about money and possibly
even open up about some of our money failures. Right.
Our kids learn from those things, and they learn something

(29:45):
dramatically different if we cut off those lines of communication
about that subject altogether. Yeah, we just talked about they're
not being sort of formal structure is set up in
place in schools when it comes to a formal financial
education for kids. But as parents, you are the first
line defense. You are the first sort of input that
you have into your children and their view towards money

(30:05):
saving and spending. Yeah, so, Matt, let's get to the
practical tips, the actual steps you can take how to
begin talking about money with your family and friends. And
we'll hit those up right after the break. All right, Joe,
let's go ahead and now talk about steps you can

(30:26):
take ways that you can talk about money with your
friends and family. Now is the practical rubber meets the road.
Let's make this happen. Speaking of rubber meets the road,
let's take it back to my dad's Camaro. I could
have been more direct with them, like, Dad, what the
heck are you talking about? Yeah? I could have just
simply asked the question what is a CD? Instead, I
was maybe too embarrassed or feel like maybe I should

(30:47):
have known already what a CD was granted, this is
in the nineties, I was a little kid, But simply
asking the question, right, if there's something that you don't
know or don't understand, be direct and just don't beat
around the bush. I think with close friends or with family,
you might be surprised at how much sort of time
and sort of hartate that that would save you. Yeah,
I can save you a lot of time and trouble amat.
I think most of us are too embarrassed to ask

(31:09):
the question to follow up on something that we don't know.
I mean, I know that's me at times. Oh yeah, dude,
that was totally me right as a kid, I was
so embarrassed of everything. Yeah in school, your teachers remember
those years, right, Yeah? Completely? Yeah. So yeah, in school,
teacher teaching something and I don't have the guts to
raise my hand and ask the question because I feel
like I'm supposed to know that. But you know what

(31:31):
chances are the other kids in your class have the
same question and they don't know what's going on either.
You just gotta make that clarification. Yeah, so raise your
hand and ask the question. And I think it's good
for us to to just acknowledge that acknowledge the fact
that many of the people around you have the same question,
and chances are there's nobody in your friend group that
has the solid answer. But I bet all your friends

(31:51):
have a little bit of insight, and that's where the
conversation starts. Yeah, it's happening to that hive mind. Yeah,
exactly right. So don't be afraid to just simply ask
that question, because chances are if you have the question,
other people do too, and they're not gonna think you're
foolish or stupid. They're gonna be grateful deep down because
you're asking the question that they wish they would have
had the guts to ask themselves. Man, that kind of

(32:13):
goes along with our next point, which is that a
lot of times you're gonna need to go first in
order to get the conversation started. You might have to
volunteer your own opinion or maybe how you do things first.
So for instance, you can mention maybe just a deal
you saw, Jill. You mentioned that earlier, how consumer habits
is an easy and sort of light way to breach
the topic of money with your friends. But even something

(32:35):
as easy as talking about a new budgeting app that
you're going to try out on the phone, or even
something maybe bigger, like that you're gonna consider asking for
a raise. These are all topics that you might need
to mention first in order to get the ball rolling. Yeah,
you might even mention an awkward podcast that you heard
with two weird dudes that host it, and I don't know,
whatever it takes to kind of get the ball rolling

(32:55):
right in another way, to kind of get that conversation started.
That might be even a little bit harder, but oftentimes
it's really rewarding is to share maybe some of your struggles.
I feel like we can all identify because we have
all struggled with money at one time or another, and
it is so refreshing when a friend or a sibling
or someone that we love and are close to actually

(33:15):
opens up about a struggle that they're dealing with. It's
just so meaningful because we have those same struggles or
maybe other struggles, but they're similar, right, and we're all human,
and there's something about identifying on that level because suffering
is common to us all. We all experience it. And
so if you can be that friend in your group
that is willing to at least open up about a

(33:36):
money struggle or something that you have overcome or maybe
that you're still even dealing with that can be a
really helpful way to start a money conversation. Yeah man,
And this goes back to one of the reasons why
people don't open up is that this can be a
really vulnerable point in your life to be able to
do something like that, to maybe put yourself in what
you would consider a point of weakness, right to not

(33:56):
feel like that you've got all your all your crap
together and feel like you can go with the answers.
But sometimes going in with the question is one of
the best ways to find answers. And you're never going
to figure that out if you don't put yourself out
there all right. Another step you can take, Matt to
get those money conversations started or to use real events,
Yeah man, I think this one is especially good for
someone who may not seem that interested in talking about

(34:18):
their money. If you know that it's gonna be an
uphill battle to talk about money with a particular individual,
using real life events, using some sort of practical way
to get sort of under the radar and get talking
about money is going to be the way in, and
so a way that's easy to do. This is think
about maybe an instance where you have friends that want
to go out, and if it's maybe towards the end

(34:38):
of the month, or even if it's not towards the
end of the month, you could say, Hey, I'm actually
gonna have to sit out this time because my entertainment
funds getting low for the month, and yeah, I'll just
have to meet up with you guys next time. And
hopefully a response like that might get folks talking and
they might ask you the question like, well, what's that
all about? Like what are you talking about? You've got
plenty of money, how how come you can't come out?
And so that's the sort of thing that might sound lame,
but for someone who is also struggling with money, when

(35:01):
they hear that, a little light goes off and they think, oh, man,
that's what I need to be saying, but I'm not.
It's like a leadership quality to right, that you can
possess amongst your group of friends or with your significant
other or with your kids. Right. A lot of this
is kind of leading that charge, because a true leader
opens up about their failures, like we just talked about. Yeah,

(35:22):
and if you feel maybe a little uncomfortable being that
guy or that girl in your group of friends. Maybe
instead broaching a real life event in pop culture or
with what's going on right now. So, for instance, the
stock market has had a rough couple of weeks. Maybe
you could open up the lines of communication with a
random conversation about that. And then you can refer to
our episode where we talk about not timing the stock market. Right,

(35:44):
that's something that's top of mind and a little less
intimidating of a subject to bring up than everybody's personal budget, right,
And and something else. Every year in the United States,
most Americans get a tax refund, and that becomes a
popular topic of conversation. Hey, what are you doing with
your sweet refund this year? And Matt and I had
a conversation about that a while back. You can dig
up that episode. But that's another kind of great way

(36:06):
to spur on that conversation. It's something that's going to
happen right early next year. Everyone's gonna be talking about it.
They're gonna be articles all over the internet about what
to do with your tax refund, And that's just a
great topic of conversation to bring up with your friends,
your family. Hey, what are you doing with your tax refund?
And you can kind of start a conversation surrounding that.
There's common ground that can be had there, and who

(36:27):
knows where that conversation will take you. All right, Joel,
Right now, quick question. If you had a tax refund
right now, let's say two grand, and you could not
invest it, you had to blow it, what would you
spend it on? All right? The first thing that's coming
to my mind not well thought out, but uh, probably
another bike, honestly. Oh yeah, yeah, you know, I always
thought it was weird how people that were into biking

(36:49):
had multiple bikes, had multiple bikes, and they nerded out
of it and they wanted another bike. Man, now that
I've been biking for about a year and a half
pretty solidly, I'm kind of itching for like another really
cool bike, different ride. Yeah, so that would probably be it,
I'll do. That's a good answer, because right now, my
daily bike that I ride the most often is the
big cargo bike that used the hall the girls around on.

(37:09):
But sometimes I just want to hop on a bike
and head up to somewhere close by. You want something's
felt fast, something a little quicker, and I would love
to have something lighter. I was gonna say a trip,
because I feel like K and I haven't gone out
on a little vacation in a while, like just the
two of us, So that's always I feel like that's
always a good thing to to blow a tax refund on,
if I mean, if you're not going to invest it,

(37:30):
which wee would recommend investing it, but it's getting away
with with a significant other that sounds really good right
about now. Yeah, we would definitely recommend investing a strong
portion of that. But but a good trip, that's man. Yeah,
I agree. If if it wasn't a bike, you probably
would be for me and the fam or or or
Emily and I to to take a little trip somewhere.
All right, real quick, a couple more tips before you

(37:52):
wrap this up, And I want to say that it
might be easier for folks to talk in percentages rather
than actual dollar amounts. So when it comes to how
much you're saving, for instance, that might feel weird to
say an actual hard dollar amount that you're saving, But
if you can talk to somebody else who might make
a different amount than you do, but you're both saying,
oh yeah, I'm sitting aside ten percent of my income

(38:12):
as well. Well. Boom, you found common ground, which is awesome.
That way, you can have conversations like this with someone
else who might be in a very different life stage
in you, or they might have very different expenses, and
all of a sudden you're able to sort of level
the playing field and you know that you have similar approaches,
you have a similar goal in mind, even though the
dollar amounts might be way different. Yeah, it's a different

(38:33):
conversation when you talk about your employer four oh one
K match and how much you're putting in. Let's say
you're saving five percent of your pay or ten percent
of your pay in a four oh one K. That's
that feels like a less daunting conversation to have than
your friend that tells you that they're saving sixteen thousand
dollars a year in their four oh one came right,
Like over achiever, right, But but that's just a more

(38:54):
difficult conversation to have when you're talking about specific dollar amounts,
And so yeah, I would suggest for most people, unless
you can, like it advanced level with friends that are
super into money like you are, then you know, maybe
you can broach dollar amounts. But it's just so much
easier to talk about things on a percentage level, because, yeah,
nothing gets lost in translation, and it doesn't make anybody
feel less than or uncomfortable or uncable in the conversation. Yeah,

(39:17):
it could feel like sort of braggadocious, right, if you're
the sixteen thousand dollar guy and you're socking that away, Well,
that sounds like a lot of money, but it might
be from a percentage standpoint, the exact same as somebody
else who might just be starting out at the company. Yeah,
it can just lead to hurt feelings or people assuming
that they're not doing enough, especially if we're not opening
up about our salaries, which I don't feel like it's

(39:38):
necessarily all that important for us to know how much
each other makes as friends. Keeping it at a percentage
level based conversation just makes things less awkward, a little
bit easier, and kind of standardized across all fronts. And
another way that you can make people feel really uncomfortable,
other than throwing out a huge dollar amounts that you
might be saving or even spending, is shutting someone down

(40:00):
with an argument. And so when you're talking about someone
about money, make sure that you realize that you're having
a discussion. You're not trying to win an argument. You're
not there to judge somebody. You're there too for the relationship,
or you're there to learn something, or you're there to
help somebody else. That's stupid, Matt, You're wrong. I win,
But be sure to keep an open mind. We all
have a lot to learn. Everything doesn't have to be

(40:21):
a competition, and it's always helpful to remember that there's
somebody and probably a lot of people out there that
are smarter than you are when it comes to this stuff. Right, So,
every time I hear a guy like Warren Buffets speak,
I am completely reminded of my own inadequacies when it
comes to investing. But I don't have to be better
than a Warrbuffett or know as much as he does.
I can appreciate who he is from afar and appreciate

(40:44):
his robust knowledge, but there's no need for me to
become as smart as Warran Buffett, and there's no need
for us to put up a front and pretend like
we are something better than we are. Like Matt said,
it's not a competition, and at the end of a day,
the most important thing is retaining a solid friendship or
meaningful relationship with your significant other or family members, and

(41:08):
so coming at it from an opinionated or argumentative mindset
is going to shut down the lines of communication. Right.
We talked about how vulnerability can actually open those lines
of communication. Well, if you approach the topic from a
know it all or argumentative standpoint, it's going to do
the exact opposite. It shuts people down and they don't
want to have that conversation with you. And I'll tell

(41:28):
you what I speak from personal experience, because I feel
like I made some of those mistakes early on with
people that I love and cared about. I was learning
a lot, and I cared a lot about the subject,
and I was a little brash in the way I
approached some of those conversations, and it's shut them down
before they could really get started. And so it took
some time for me to learn a little humility when
it came to talking about money with my friends and

(41:50):
people that I cared about. So learn from my mistake
and try to approach those conversations with some kindness and care,
because that's what it's gonna take to actually get the
money conversations rolling as right, Joel, Those are some wise words. Man.
All right, real quick, let's get back to this beer.
This is a collaboration between Angry Chair Brewing and Westbrook

(42:10):
Brewing Company. It's called Zeus Juice. Man. This is a
sour wheat ale is Ambrosia inspired, which I'm not sure
what that means. Drink of the Gods, right, That's why
I think it's called Zeus, Yeah, exactly, But what does
that mean when it comes to an actual beer. It's
just it's just supposed to be funzies, just marketing. But
it's a sour wheat ale brewed with tangerine, pineapple, cherry, coconut, lactose,

(42:33):
and marshmallows. They put it all in there, man, what
do you think you dig it do? To be honest,
I really did. And I think I mentioned this before,
but I love low alcohol beers and this one's only
four percent, but it packed so much flavor because of
all those ingredients. It just kind of felt like one
of those beers that I don't feel like it ever
tasted a beer that was quite like this. It was
pretty unique as well. You know what I have tasted

(42:54):
that I thought tasted like this beer? Tell Red Bull.
Oh dude, that's interesting. Yeah, like that sort of candy
tartness that comes with just like a regular Red Bull
energy drink. I don't feel like i'm talking about I've
had a Red Bull in a decade, so I'm trying
to remember what they taste like, so I don't know
that I can comment, but but I feel like there
was that kind of candied cherry kind of notes going on.

(43:16):
So if that's what a Red Bull tastes like, yes, yeah,
it was that and one other thing that I tasted
later in the show, and I wrote it down because
it stood out to me. Did you eat Captain crunch
but with berries? I think it's called like crunch berries,
I think, or Captain crunch berries. Actually, I think that's
exactly what it's called crunch berries. Now, man, I don't
think my parents would let me get that stuff in
the cereal for real. You never had Captain crunch No,

(43:37):
it was like cheerios and stuff man, classics only for you, huh.
I guess you know what, Maybe I go pick them
up this sweet. If it tastes like this, then I'm in.
If you like that and you want to get yourself
some cereal, you would love some Captain crunch berries alrightne
sold Yeah, I definitely had sort of a berry fruitiness
to it along with like that sour wheakness. It was delicious. Yeah,
it was fun. I thought the lactose and the marshmallows

(43:59):
kind of gave it this kind of fluffy pillowness too.
Oh yeah, you're talking kind of crunch language. So this
is really really tasty and I would definitely get more
of it. So Zoos, Juice by Westbrook and Angry Chair
also love a good collaboration beer. Those are always fun.
All right, Joe, let's give our final thoughts. Man, we
want you to start talking about money, because money a

(44:21):
lot of times just feels like a topic that is
off limits when it comes to things that you talk
about when it comes to your friends, and that's umb
we want to change that. And whether it's because maybe
it feels too personal, maybe you feel it's none of
your business, there are a lot of reasons why you
may not be talking about money right now with your friends.
It could be because you feel that you don't know enough,
maybe you don't feel like you're doing a great job

(44:42):
right now. Either way, it can kind of feel scary
to talk about money when to talk about personal finance
specifically with your friends. But we think that you're missing
out ultimately by not having these money conversations. You're missing
out likely on some individual growth by not having some
of those money conversations. And also your friendships are are
missing out on a depth that they can have by tackling,

(45:03):
you know, one of the subjects that affects all of
us really deeply and being able to connect on that
level with the people that you're closest to. There's something
really cool about that. You might also be missing out
as an employee or a parent, and so we would
encourage you to have money conversations that matter for your
own personal development in all of these spheres. And to
get the ball rolling when it comes to talking to

(45:24):
your friends about money is that you're gonna have to
probably go first. This isn't something that people tend to
naturally want to talk about. And this is the step
that's gonna take the most bravery. It's gonna be the
hardest to do to you know, feel vulnerable and to
put yourself out there. The chances are if you don't
do it first, that's not a conversation that they're going
to bring up and that's a missed opportunity for a
meaningful conversation that you could have had. Approach these conversations

(45:47):
with care because you know, it's weird to bring it up.
It's weird for the people around you too. Because we
live in a culture that emphasizes not talking about money.
Most people are just completely silent on the issue altogether.
So it might take some time, but it's definitely going
to take a calm and kind approach, So keep that
in mind when you do approach the topic with the

(46:08):
people around you. Yeah, man, and just keeping it open mind.
We all still have a lot to learn, and that's
gonna be it for today. Man. Thanks to everyone for listening.
Our home on the web is how Some Money dot Com.
Check it out. We'll have those show notes up for you. Yeah,
and if you like what you heard, please leave a
review on Apple Podcast. It helps get the word out
to other people who also like talking about money. And

(46:28):
don't forget to hit the subscribe button while you're there.
So until next time, buddy, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.