Why You Need a Money Coach in Your Corner with Ericka Young #517

It’s time to get your financial butt in shape! Our guest today, Ericka Young, is the financial coach that she never had! As a newlywed couple, Ericka and her husband discovered that it’s actually pretty easy to become just like the average US household that now has over $150,000 in debt. It’s the norm and if you don’t have a plan to avoid debt, you will likely find yourself falling into that trap! But that’s not the path that Ericka continued along- she was determined to change her family tree, and now helps others who are seeking financial freedom in their lives. Ericka started her company, Tailor-Made Budgets where she creates custom plans for her clients that give them the tools and the knowledge to cut their stress levels by increasing their savings and decreasing their debt. We get to hear Ericka’s debt story, how she was able to leave a high paying engineering job, signs that someone might need a financial coach, what it looks like to face your financial reality, how she helps her clients think through making trade-offs, and why friends may not be enough of an accountability partner.

 

During this episode we enjoyed a Where I Want To Be Deciduous Brewing! And please help us to spread the word by letting friends and family know about How to Money! Hit the share button, subscribe if you’re not already a regular listener, and give us a quick review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Help us to change the conversation around personal finance and get more people doing smart things with their money!

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt.
Today we're talking why you need a money coach in
your corner with Erica Young. So our guest today, Erica

(00:30):
Young is the financial coach that she never had. As
a newlywood couple, Erica and her husband they discovered that
it's actually pretty easy to become just like the average
US household that now has over dollars in debt. It's
the norm, honestly, and if you don't have a plan
to avoid debt, you're gonna likely find yourself falling into
that trap. But that is not the path that Erica

(00:52):
continued along with. She was determined to change her family
tree and now she helps others who are seeking financial
freedom in their lives. Eric started her company, Taylor Made Budgets,
where she creates custom plans for her clients that give
them the tools and the knowledge to cut their stress
levels by increasing their savings and decreasing their debt. That
is what we're talking about today. Erica, thank you so

(01:15):
much for joining us today on the podcast. Thank you
for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Erica.
We're glad to have you. And the first question we
ask everybody who comes on the show, is what they
like to support John, because that kind of tells us
something about the guest pretty quickly. Matt and I we
like to support John Beer. Everybody knows that. But what
is it that you like to support John in the
here and now while you're being smart with your money,

(01:35):
you're saving and investing still for your future. Yeah. Well,
I love vacations, and I don't just like a little getaway.
I mean those are fine, Those are fine, but I
like to spend good money on great food and beautiful
like a villa. I typically we'll go in with some friends,
do a couple's trip, and we do the biggest and

(01:58):
best that we can, honestly, right. Yeah, Like, so that
is my little guilty pleasure. I will spend lots of
money on vacation and I plan to do that for
the rest of my life. There it is makes I
want to travel with me too. I'm like, I'm we're
so used to just like sort of slumming it. Like
we go to the beach often. I mean every every
summer we go to the beach together with our families.

(02:19):
And it's a fine balance between finding the absolute cheapest
place but something that's nice enough to keep our families happy,
but probably not roach infested. But but nothing that we
would call a villa. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, we
haven't done the villa thing. That sounds nice. Oh my gosh,
it's great. It's so much fun and it's so much more,
you know, economical, when you've got a bunch of people
with you when you do this, how many how many

(02:41):
couples typically do you like to like? I feel like
there's an optimal range because above a certain amount and
start there's there's drama. They may they may as well
be filming because we're gonna make this reality. You are
correct about it. Now, last year we did six couples,
but I've been I've been on a cruise with fifteen
so fitch couples. Yeah, okay, yes, so cruise you can

(03:03):
facilitate that a lot easier. But what I'll say is,
I mean, you know, you just take people you like
and then you have to weed out those that don't
work so well. It's amazing to how people that you
like at home maybe you don't travel the same with them,
So you have to kind of figure out who who
makes a good travel companion. Not every good buddy actually
turns out to be a great travel travel buddy. That's

(03:24):
true too, I have learned that as well. Well. Hopefully
you're able to remain friends with America even though it
didn't work out of the villa. But let let's talk
about debt because you and your husband you were newlyweds, uh,
and you were like around ninety dollars in debt, So
we want to hear your story a little bit here.
What kinds of debt had you racked up? And specifically too,

(03:45):
how did you get to the point where you realized
that having that much, that that was a problem for
you all. Honestly, we were pretty normal. I mean this
was twenty going on twenty five years ago, to be honest,
and we were normal. We had credit card debt between
the two of us, we had about seven credit cards.
None of them were super duper high, but when you've
got that many, it's a lot, it's a lot to juggle.

(04:07):
And then we also had car debt, two cars between us,
um and we had student loans, which was the biggest
portion of it. So more than half of that ninety
thousand was in student loans, and that was normal. Honestly,
everyone expects to have a car note, everybody expects to
have a credit card or two. And then, of course
you can't get out of college quote unquote without college debt,

(04:28):
so it was pretty normal. We didn't have anything that
we were really overspending on. This is actually how we
started our life. We got out of college and this
is what we had. It wasn't abnormal at the time,
and so that's part of the challenges that we're told
that it's okay and so we do it. And when

(04:49):
I was an engineer working in corporate America and my
husband was a sales professional, there were a few moments
in those early months of our relationship when we got
married that we realized, hold on a second, there's so
much more month left, and we don't have enough money.
So between the car payments and the student loans and

(05:10):
all that, we started to realize, gosh, there's not a
whole lot left even though we're working professionals, you know,
And so we realized that we needed a game plan.
And um, that's when we started to have the revelation
that man, if I can't go to lunch with my
coworkers and I'm an engineer, there's a bigger problem here. Um,
it's not like your salary was crummy as an engineer,

(05:32):
like you're probably are making decent money exactly exactly, and so,
but we also had decent debt, right, so our debt
payments amounted to over a thousand dollars a month. And
then you add on that we had a baby quick,
you know, in the first year and a half of
our marriage, and then we had another one at three
four years later, and so you know, you start compounding

(05:53):
these things and life is expensive and you're not sure
what you're supposed to be doing. So um, we quickly realized.
I mean, honestly, I'm kind of glad that it happened early,
because we were foolish enough to believe that anything was possible,
so we went after it, and that, you know, forced
us to get real with our money early on. When

(06:13):
a lot of my clients today they have waited until
there are forties and fifties and they're like, oh my gosh,
my kids are going to college and now I need
to get my act together. So you know, there are
benefits to tripping over yourself earlier. That's sure, you're learning
some lessons before you get too far along. I love
what you said that you said we were pretty normal.
And there's so many people that have, you know, tens

(06:37):
of thousands dollars worth the student loan debt, and they're like,
I see the headlines. I'm not as bad off as
some of those folks. And they've got a little bit
of credit card to your debt here. They got a
little bit of of card debt over here, and it's like,
well that, but that's normal, right, I'm actually maybe I'm
doing a little bit better than average even but you
began to realize that this wasn't the normal you wanted
to live in. So so, how did how did you

(06:58):
and your husband and young kids is? How did y'all
start tackling that debt? What was your approach to paying
it down? Well, the first thing that my husband did
was he actually took my credit card away from me
because I was the one that, yes, this was confession time.
Like I I was swiping that car to have lunch.
I was swiping that car to do the things that

(07:19):
did not fit inside of our normal routine or what
we could use in our checking account, and and so
I it was confession time. And I had to share
that because honestly, I can't. We can't continue to go
into debt if we're really trying to get out. So
something has to stop here. And so that was, you know,
a real honest moment that we had to have. And

(07:40):
so he literally put it in a bowl of ice,
and we'll put it in a bowl of water, put
it in the fraser so it could turn into ice.
And it was before those times when you plugged in
your account number or your debit card number into Amazon
phys exactly. And so that was the restraint, you know,

(08:00):
in the physical representation of we're not doing this anymore.
And then honestly, we just added up all of our expenses.
I mean a lot of people are very nervous to
add up and look at and face how much they
spend on a monthly basis. And when we did that,
we realized there was opportunity. It wasn't what we thought
it was going to look like, and we had to

(08:21):
face that and just say, okay, so now what we're
what are we going to do about it? So I
think a reality check is the very first step for
lots of people. That's true. Yeah, So okay, so as
you started down this path, did you have any setbacks
along the way. Well, I'm gonna go ahead and and
kind of reveal I'll spell the beans, because I know
you had some car issues. You have some car problems,
and you did have to go back into debt. But

(08:44):
I guess what I specifically want to know is how
did you keep that from derailing you? Because I think
sometimes when you've got this, you've got this goal up
ahead of you and you know this is something you
want to achieve, but then you kind of get hit
with this hurdle, uh something, it might derail you a
little bit. I want to know how you were able
to overcome that and continue pressing on towards that goal
of years. Yeah. Yeah, So our car died. Our car

(09:06):
died and had it needed an engine, and we did
not have the thousand dollars that was needed in order
for us to get that car resurrected. And so we
went without a car for a season, really just a
month when I was with a new child and my
husband was able to go to work. But then we
got another car, you know, loan, and so what we

(09:26):
realized was, man, okay, so if we're not prepared, then
that means we go further into debt, and that was
kind of the last straw. That was the last thing
that we said, all right, we had to add this
to our debt. That's what put us over that ninety
thousand and so we said, all right, let's let's figure
this out. We added everything up, and we just said,
we can't be back in this place again where we

(09:48):
are unprepared, meaning we don't have anything in savings and
we can't weather an emergency. And so that was the
first thing we did was get a little bit of
an emergency fund so that we didn't have depend on
credit cards. And then we started tackling the debt seriously
at that point so that we, you know, could reduce
our expenses because honestly, having over a thousand or swelve

(10:10):
hundred dollars a month going out in payments was also
why we couldn't afford to get the car fixed. And
so those are the things that we started to realize
and say, okay, early on, if we get this right now,
then maybe we don't have to return to this place again. Yeah.
So it sounds like instead of that, instead of that
hampering your ability to reach, like, oh, it just poured

(10:31):
some fuel on the fire and it caused you to
maybe get after it even more than you were before
it did. Yeah, and I think we were also committed
to the fact that, you know, we wanted something different
than what we grew up with. The truth of the
matter is that both of my husband and I came
from single parent households, and we saw our moms struggle
and we said, well, we've got two incomes, we should
be able to do a little bit better than that,

(10:52):
right we and so we knew that there was something
to this, but we couldn't. You know, we tripped over
ourselves a little bit in the beginning, but it takes
the termination and it takes resolved and so we were
on the same page where that was concerned. Sometimes the
methods weren't exactly the same um because you're never gonna
always agree, but it was good to know that, like,

(11:13):
we had the same type of foundation, because we really
just wanted to make sure that we had a better
future for our kids than what we hit. Yeah, it's
good to know. And Matt and I've talked about this before,
being on the same team. Recognizing that you're on the
same team when a setback happens, it keeps you from
pointing fingers at each other. You're like, wait a second,
we're on the same team. This setback affects us both,
and so let's find a way to overcome this hurdle together.

(11:33):
And I gotta say, sometimes I'm overly optimistic my and
my wife tells me that often, like she loves my optimism,
but she's also like, it also greats on me sometimes
because you're completely unrealistic. And so I have to realize
too that when I'm saying, oh, it's gonna take me
thirty minutes to do this repair around the house, knowing
that it's probably actually likely gonna take me an hour
and a half and to do that task. Sometimes when

(11:55):
it comes to a debt payoff plane, you have to
have a little bit of realism so that that one
hurdle it doesn't send you reeling um. And so knowing
building building in some place for imperfection, I think it's
important in that plan too, right, right, absolutely, And don't
expect for perfection from your partner because you know that

(12:15):
you aren't perfect either. Right, Like, it's super easy to
point a finger at someone else because you can see
their flaws. You don't want anyone to see yours. And
so I love the fact that you even said, you know,
we have to remember that we're a team. One of
the things my husband still does to this day is
say out loud, we're on the same team. Like he
says it to remind himself and to remind me we're

(12:36):
on the same team. We want to go the same place.
And so while we may not agree on sometimes the method,
that still means that we need to figure out how
we're going to get we're gonna you know, where we're
gonna go together. So okay, so it took you how
long to pay off that debt? And how did you
celebrate at the end of that debt payoff? Did you rella?
What did you do? That's awesome? Well, it took us

(12:58):
about five years. We had two kids in that time.
We had another setback was my husband got laid off.
You know, We've had a lot. We had a family
loss where we had emergencies we have to use our
emergency fund and all of that. So there was a
lot going on in there. Um, I do think, and
this is the reason why I do what I do.
I do think that we could have made some different
decisions and gotten it paid off a little bit faster

(13:20):
if we had a coach. Um. And that's why I
jumped in to do this work, is to help people
to avoid some of the pitfall so that they too
can get out of it faster than they would have
on their own. And we celebrated along way. I'll be
very honest and say, when we paid off a car,
we celebrated. And so for us, you know, sometimes that
was just a nice fancy dinner when we paid everything off. Honestly,

(13:46):
I walked away from my job like that was the
biggest thing that that I could lead that position and
start the work that I wanted to do myself. And
so that was a huge financial change in our house.
But it would is one of the biggest reasons why
getting out of debt was so critical for us, because, um,
it just created an opening for us to be able to,

(14:08):
you know, change the way we do life. And I've
not looked back. It's been seventeen years and I have
no regrets at all. Um. No, I wasn't making today's
money back then when I first started, but because we
were out of debt, we could do it. And you know,
with little kids, sometimes that's the biggest thing that you
need is to be able to have some flexibility, I bet. Yeah. So,

(14:29):
I mean, was that difficult to to kind of transition
from that nicer, high paying engineer job where you're going
out to lunch or maybe not because you're your credit
cards were frozen at that point, Uh, bringing those leftovers
to work, That's how I roll. But even still, like,
even when you eliminate those those you know, a thousand
bucks and months in debt payments, I'm sure you're making
more than twelve tho dollars a year, like you are

(14:51):
going to feel that impact of losing that income. Was
that difficult for you to know that you're taking a
hit when it came to your income. It was an adjustment.
It was definitely in adjustment. And it took a couple
of years in all truth to get the business off
and running the way I wanted it to. But I
didn't honestly, didn't leave until I did have some income
in the business. It just didn't replace the whole amount.

(15:13):
And so yeah, I think, honestly, I know this sounds crazy,
but one of the bigger sacrifices that we made during
that time was that I couldn't invest in my retirement, right,
So I wasn't doing that, and that was something that
I had previously been doing. And one of the biggest
pieces of advice I would give someone is probably have
a bigger emergency fund than I had. So um that

(15:35):
party at the time, Oh my gosh, we had solidly
three months, Like we didn't have like a whole year
or anything like that. Yeah, and so we So I
would if you're going to become an entrepreneur and you're
not really sure what your income is gonna look like,
I would definitely expand that at least six months, if
not twelve, um, just to be on the safe side.

(15:57):
For me, that would have meant staying longer um at work,
and we probably could have made that happen. But I
really felt strongly that it was time for me to go,
And so I now advised people to do what I
didn't know to do, um, which is to have more
money saved. But you know, I think, honestly, I still
have no regrets because it's it's been a great ride,

(16:20):
and um, it was the time that I needed to go.
And quite frankly, uh, we've been able to overcome that, right.
So it just took a little bit. It's slowly slow
now for the ideal way to do it, but you
got through it, and then now you're coaching other people
to do it even better, which I love and I
love to just that reality, the realization that that a

(16:41):
an emergency fund that's even specific to an individual or
an individual situation. It's like, hey, you're gonna want you
want to quit your job and become an entrepreneur. You
need more runaway, you need more financial backup. But let's
say you dual income, great jobs that aren't going anywhere,
you know you can have Yeah, you can have a
smaller emergency fund, and that's okay. Um. I want I
want to ask you too about that transition to coaching

(17:03):
that you talked about. You know you talked about it
took me five years. I think we could have done
it faster. I want to basically help other people learn
from the things that I was learning along the way
that if I had known that from the get go,
it probably would have happened a little bit quicker. Talk
to me more about like how that fostered in you
that desire to help others and what actually like kind

(17:24):
of plunged you into you know what, I have to
do this full time as a job. Yeah. Well, what's
interesting is that because of our journey, I had people
asking me questions. I wasn't silent about the fact that
we were trying to get out of debts. So there
would be times where we would say no to things,
or we would say yes to something different, or we
were taking a class, or I was reading a book.

(17:45):
But I was immersing myself and the work of trying
to figure out how to get out and stay at
a DIBt. I was talking about my budget. I was vocal,
and so people would ask me questions. My pastor asked
me a question, he said, hey, would you help somebody
else do what you are doing? I said, sure, absolutely,
And so the first couple of clients, two or three

(18:05):
people that I worked with were pro bono, just to
kind of see if I liked it. And in that time,
I was like, I loved seeing the lightbulb come on.
At that time, I was actually going to someone's house
and we were looking at their bank statements on the table,
and when there would be a pivotal moment like did

(18:26):
you know that you're dining out is five hundred dollars
a month? Did you know that your kids activities was
costing you this much, and the lightbulb comes on and
they're like, wow, I had no idea. I thought it
was so much less than that, and they start to
realize why things have been so challenging. Um, I used
to go. I actually went into someone's home and I

(18:47):
saw immediately why they were in debt. They were not
a hoard or necessarily, but they had tons and tons
of things for their kids all over their place, and
so it was very obvious. And so those are things
that looking back, give perspective to why people need somebody,
somebody to walk with them through the process versus just saying, oh,

(19:11):
I can do this on my own. And most of
the time people don't do it on their own. They
say they're going to do it. They're like, oh, I'm
going to give this a month and I'm going to
see if i can do it myself, and then they
realize they've done absolutely. And so accountability is huge and
getting people to move the needle. I love that. That's
that's so good. I mean accountability. There's many other reasons
to why it might make sense to have a financial

(19:33):
coach in your corner. We're gonna talk all about coaching.
What it entails. We'll get to all that right after
this break. Are we are back from the break, We're
still talking with Erica Young about why you need a
money coach in your corner. And I think, I mean,

(19:55):
you just set it up perfectly right that that we
we always say we're going to do something, getting around
to it is another matter. I am maybe the king
of that. Remember, going back, going back to my college days,
my procrastination levels were basically superior to anyone else's. And
so I want to I want to know though from me,
like what are the signs maybe that someone needs the

(20:15):
help of a financial coach who maybe like, how can
someone know that they should stop trying to do it
on their own and then they really just do need
the outsource that they need to hire someone to kind of,
you know, give him the right kick in the butt. Yeah. Well,
one of the very first signs is that you have
debt that hasn't moved. Um, your debt is either stagnant

(20:36):
or it's growing, and so um, if you're not making
progress in that area, that's a that's one sign. Another
one is wishful or magical thinking. So we like to
believe that we are better than we are that we
can do this ourselves or that at some point, just
like with weight loss, we're like, oh, I want to
lose some pounds and then we're magically like, oh, it's

(20:56):
going to take me this amount of time. Well not
if you don't change something right, Like we're wishful thinking
about lots of things in our lives and so that
could be also something to wake up too. And then honestly,
I would say, you know, if you realize that there
are things in your life that you want but you

(21:17):
haven't been able to achieve. So going on a nice vacation,
having an emergency fund um, giving to organizations, or being
a part of something bigger than yourself, and those things
have not been able to happen. You're realizing that your
your goals are bigger than your want to your actions

(21:38):
are not lining up with the vision that you have.
And so sometimes the coach can help you realize and
that what's missing really and you know, the the little
kick in the tush that you need in order to
get started. So that's having somebody on your team side
by side with you who've been who's been down the road.
And I've worked with hundreds of people, um it just

(22:00):
helps you to see what you can see. I mean,
sometimes we're just blind to what's really in the way
absolutely where maybe we can see what's going on in
other people's lives spending money on this right, when it
comes to what you're spending your money on, it can
be difficult to to recognize. And so yeah, I mean
you're you're basically staying this and you said this before
the break, But it sounds like like that reality check

(22:21):
is the first thing that that folks need to do.
Do you do you have other like do you have
different tactics that you take with different folks who come
to you? Or like is it customizable when you're catching somebody?
Or yeah, like are there a few steps that everyone
should follow? Yeah, there are steps everyone should follow. It's
customizable once I get to know who you are. So

(22:42):
one the reality check where you look at all of
your income and all of your outgo expenses specifically need
to be broken down by category. Look at that first.
I typically say, have a glass of line, get some chocolate,
put on some move music, or have a candle burning
something to make you kind of get into that good mood.
But that's the first thing. And then I actually have

(23:03):
an assessment that I do with people to understand their
behaviors and their habits around money. And so there's a
checklist if you will, you kind of go through and
rate everything, and I think it's really important for people
to understand what their behaviors currently are assess what's really
going on here. That's huge. I also think that adding

(23:23):
up your debt and by that you might have to
go look at your credit report to make sure you're
not missing anything, but face where you are because if
you don't do that, you don't know how you can
get to where you really need to be. It's kind
of like the GPS lady. She has to locate you
right where you are today before you put in that

(23:45):
address of where you're trying to go, so that you
can get the straightest, quickest path there. But you can't
get there if she doesn't know where you are. So
we've got to locate where you are first, and sometimes
that's the hardest part. Once people are able to face that,
then they're like, Okay, I think I'm open now to
hearing what Eric has to say about how we're going
to get this done. Yeah, sometimes you gotta take like

(24:07):
all of the gloss all of the sheen off, and
you've gotta like look at all those naked numbers and
all of them not hiding anything, right, so that you
can get a full scope of what actually needs to happen.
And uh, okay, you're coaching business. It's called tailor made budgets.
And so it makes me think, like, what does it
take to create a budget that actually helps people? Because

(24:27):
some people are scared of the word budget. They think
of it as like a four letter word. So, um,
how do you help people create a budget that they
actually use, not one that just kind of like looks
good in an Excel file that gets quickly abandoned. Yeah.
One of the biggest things is to know the family,
Know the household. Um, understand are their medical things going

(24:47):
on in the house are understand you know how old
the children are, if there are kids in the house,
Understand what the goals are. Where do you see yourself
in six months? Why is this important making it customized
to that household. No budget should be exactly like the neighbor,
and so it's it's important to understand who it is
that I'm working with and make it realistic for them. So,

(25:09):
for instance, people have an affinity for you know, whole
or clean eating or what have you. I understand that
that could potentially cost a little bit more. I also
have to understand that the age of the kids makes
a difference, um, the activities that kids are in and
and things like that. So just knowing what the household
is up to if there are glaring red flags, Um,

(25:33):
that's one of the things that over the years I
have gotten a whole lot better at making sure that
I let people know here's the big, hairy elephant in
the room that we've got to deal with. Because if
there were only one thing to change, I want people
to understand what that thing is that's really going to
make a difference in their finances. So the budget can
be very detailed and it can be very realistic and

(25:55):
tailored for that household. But I'm always looking for that
one thing that if they only did that, it would
transform everything. And so I'm looking for that needle in
the haystack. And sometimes it's bigger than you think. But um,
that's sometimes the thing that will help people really get
unstuck if you will right well, I mean, can you

(26:15):
share some examples, like, like, what are some of those
red flags what are some of those big, big, old
budget busting line items that are just wrecking people's finances. Well,
I'll start with some of the little ones that everybody
has right now. So one of those would be subscriptions.
So I'll have people add up all of their subscriptions.
I had one family do this a couple of years ago.
It was about a hundred and fifty dollars and subscriptions,

(26:36):
and I thought, wow, and this is not like cable.
It's all of the little Netflix and Hulu and gains
for the kids and all that added up to a hundred.
They had no idea, And so we just go through
the process of what's needed and what isn't, what do
you use, which don't you use? And they cut it
down to like fifty bucks. Amazon is huge. Amazon all

(26:57):
on its own right now is big. And that is
not always fifty bucks or a hundred bucks. There is
that something in people will justify as saying, well, we
get diapers and we get groceries or And I still
think it's important to add up what's happening at Amazon,
because what it really is is just convenient. If you
can potentially spend less money elsewhere, and all that if

(27:20):
you pay attention to that. But a lot of the
times the big learing flags are a vehicle that's completely
out of whack and doesn't make sense. Um, I typically
will you know. The very last thing I would even
offer is that the house is too expensive expensive. I
I don't typically go there with that unless it's absolutely necessary.

(27:42):
But feel like you're undermining their security. What are you
talking about? Yeah, I don't go there unless it's absolutely necessary.
But I have had people who are paying for college
for their kids taking it out of their retirement funds.
That's a big hairy red flack to me, you know,
especially and the kid isn't doing will right, and so
that's you know, tens of thousands of dollars potentially going

(28:05):
down the drain, and the kid can get alone. I
don't want them to. But if it's your retirement versus
their college, I'm picking your retirement first. Yeah, yeah, I
completely agree with you. It makes me, It makes me
think everything in life is a trade off, right, and
especially the case with our money. So that's kind of
what you're you're walking people through to to a certain extent,

(28:25):
is here's the thing, this is what's kind of busting
the budget over here, and obviously, uh, we're gonna have
to make some sort of trade off. Maybe we got
to sell this car and we got to get into
something more affordable. But how do you talk to people?
How do you coach people into thinking through trade offs
with how they spend their money and kind of the
things that they can be doing with that money instead. Yeah, well, really,

(28:48):
I ask a bunch of questions. It's really okay. So
tell me more about this loan. How long is it?
How long have you had it? Tell me about you know,
tell me about the vehicle, right, Like, honestly, for families
who have little kids, they need a certain kind of vehicle.
They're not going to be able to be in an escort,
for instance. Right, So, um, so I want to understand.

(29:08):
I asked a bunch of questions, and then I'll say
things like how was that serving you? Um? Is this helpful?
Is this necessary? What could you do differently? I want
them to open up and share their thoughts. And really,
when I look at the overall assessment of their situation,
I see their budget, I see their assets, I see
their debt, and then if that is the smoking gun,

(29:31):
it's really okay. So if you did this. If you
made this one change, here is what's possible. You could
get out of debt and this amount of time versus
this amount of time, or those dollars could go towards
your retirement future, or you could say that for your
kids education. So it's really helping them to see that
something else is possible or one of their goals could

(29:53):
be achieved even faster if they made this you know,
big change if you will um And sometimes honestly people say,
I'm not willing to make the change now, but if
we do A, B, and C, could we get the
same effect. And it makes them start thinking about things
that they wouldn't have thought of before. So that's awesome too.
So you know, the truth is I want them to
own their decision and so I really you know, ask

(30:17):
all the questions that are necessary for them to have
their own light bulb moment. That's that's so great because
when you have the light bulb yourself, as opposed to
someone telling you what to do, it's so much more
impactful and you're more likely to make a different decision
moving forward. And when you've also connected that trade off
to this greater goal that you have, you become so
much more excited to make that Like, wait a second,

(30:37):
this car is holding me back. I didn't even like
the car. I didn't realize that that was the problem.
It wasn't that big of a deal to me. But
this other goal, like we wanted that, we want that
villa every every summer, like we want that sweet summer trip.
And so I don't know. It's amazing how when you
connect the trade off to that greater goal, it just
can completely changes the equation. Absolutely, yep, absolutely, And they
get to own their decision. I really want people to

(31:00):
feel like it was their choice versus Erica's prodding and pushing.
That's an inception because planning the writing this colonel of this,
and then they have to discover an idea and then
they stumble upon it. It's like, wait a minute, that
was my idea, right, that's right. Well, I mean speaking
of kind of like mind tricks, you know better than
anyone here, like doing this one on one work. It's

(31:21):
never just a numbers problem here oftentimes, talk about like
the dual role that you play in helping people with
some of their deeper rooted psychological issues with money alongside
the need to provide some of the education from that
accountability where they might just be, you know, missing some
of that basic personal finance knowledge. I think sometimes you
might be diving in even deeper than you realize when

(31:43):
when you're trying as you're kind of unearthing some of
these some of these deeper issues. Right. Yeah, absolutely, I
will say I'm not a marriage counselor, I will say
I'm not um a therapist, if you will, But but
I get into some of the stuff um that couples
to understand or that a single person hasn't allowed themselves

(32:04):
to to think about. So your money passed, right, So
all of the things that you learned as a child
coming up in your home of origin, and how that
is affecting you today. So for instance, I'll just talk
about myself. I want to talk about a client. But
like my husband and I, like I said, we grew
up in single parent households. We both saw financial dysfunction

(32:26):
and you know, I saw a beast and famine lifestyle
all the time just to make ends me, as did he,
and so I interpreted that in a different way than
he did. He really likes to have, you know, he
wants to stat cash, that cash and I'm more of
the longer term. I want to make sure I'm okay
in the future because I was always worried that I'd

(32:48):
have to take care of my parents, and so the
way we interpreted our past experience affected how we did life.
And the funny thing is, I'm a financial coach, and
he and I would differ on how much we needed
for savings because we had different ways that we interpreted
our past. But I'm a money coach, so I need
to make the decisions. You know what. Sometimes that happens now.

(33:13):
But I will say, like, those past experiences affect how
we do life today, and a lot of people don't
put enough emphasis or give themselves the freedom to sit
back and think through how that that is showing up
in life today. I had a client who had their
own realization about how dependent they were on their parents
approval and how they spent their money, and you know,

(33:36):
the wife just really started crying and just said, Wow,
I hadn't seen it that way. I had no idea
that I was looking for them to be okay with
my money decisions. And the husband said, I'm so glad
that we had this conversation because this was worth all
of the coaching because I didn't know how to reach
this point. I had no idea how to get here.
And now that he knows, now that they both are

(33:58):
aware of what she's allowed. You know, she allowed her
parents sort of to interfere and how they manage their
own money. They can, they can work through that, but
they weren't. They didn't know that that was that that
was happening. And so those are things that we get
into that's beyond the numbers, that's you know, hidden sometimes
behind Oh, we just need a budget. There's probably more

(34:22):
reasons why the budget hasn't worked in the past, and
we've got to get to some of those root issues
in order for you to really be able to stick
with the budget too. I love that. I love it.
Thank you so much for sharing all that. I mean,
there's a lot of good, beautiful wisdom in there, and actually,
you know, you have so much good thoughts I think
around when it comes to money in relationships and how
couples can talk about money well together. Erica, we want

(34:43):
to ask you a few questions on that topic, and
we'll get to those right after this. Alright, we're back
from the break. We're still talking about money coaching. Angel.
You kind of tease to money and relationships. Rika kind

(35:04):
of got into how she's you know, she plays. She
gets to pretend to be of a couple's counselor every
now and then before we kind of talk more about
relationship stuff. One of the things you mentioned was that
one of the roles that a financial coach can play
is accountability. Right, like they are, they're keeping you accountable.
Is it possible to get that same benefit by having

(35:25):
a friend provide that accountability? What I want to ask
here that the core of my question is I want
to know the difference between having a friend that's holding
you accountable and someone like you who is able to
provide more of that in full service one on one coaching.
Can you talk about that for a second. Absolutely, I
think everybody needs a friend that can hold them accountable. However,
most of the time our friends one is happy. Um

(35:49):
our friends are very agreeable, and for women sometimes that
is a shopping buddy or someone who is going to say,
oh I understand, just do it, you deserve it, And
men don't say those things, but it is inherent in Hey,
let's go hang out with the guys and we're gonna
do what we do, you know what I mean, Like,

(36:10):
we all have our ways in which we live and
and it's great to have a buddy who's on the
journey with you, but they're not going to give you
the tough love they also will not give you. You're
you're not gonna be super open and honest with your friend.
Let's just be clear. You're not gonna say how much
you spent on dining out. You are not going to
say how much that dress cost. You're not gonna say
how much golfing was with the fellas. You're not You're

(36:33):
going to simply gloss over it, because we inherently do
not want the worst of us to be seen by everybody.
With me, you don't have a choice on that first meeting.
I mean, honestly, if my clients are paying me to
be honest with them, because there's not a whole lot
of other places where they're gonna be honest. They're not
going to tell family members, they're not going to tell friends.

(36:56):
People are embarrassed to shame. There's a lot of emotion
around money. They're not they don't want their friends to
know how much they make. Let's just be clear that
there's a lot that we aren't sharing. So accountability can
only go so far with the people in our circles.
One of the things that I really enjoy about being
a coach is that I'm pretty anonymous, if you will,

(37:17):
And so I'm not going to do I did that
in the first couple of years. But the cool thing
is that, um, I could literally have a neighbor as
a client and we might not even know we're neighbors, right,
and so um nobody else knows especially, and so yeah,

(37:39):
so the cool thing is, like that's the other thing
is I'm asking the hard questions right in the beginning,
and once we get the hard stuff done, we can
work through everything else. And I just, you know, really
have a system of these are the things that we
talk about and this is what you ought to expect.
And so in that process is exactly how people really

(38:00):
get to understand what this looks like and they get
used to being vulnerable and open. And because I'm a prodder,
I ask a bunch of questions. Um, they they've got
to get them answer. And I actually so there have
been times when I'm like, I think you need to
see a counselor for that. I think I think that
that's what makes sense here, and pushing them towards getting
some actual help from a license therapist. Yes, absolutely, especially

(38:23):
from you know, in marriage, especially if there's any type
of emotional challenges that people are having. I've done. I
did that just recently, because I think that people think
that if they get the money right, that all of
these other problems will be okay, like we'll be able
to communicate. Well, no, actually, I really need you to
have a solid foundation and communication first, because if we

(38:44):
start talking about the money, it's just going to uproot
quite a bit of things. And if you can't work
through those things behind the scenes, that can be challenging.
So I know those are things that just a frame
probably wouldn't say. Yeah, bad money fights, disagreements, how you
communicate about money like those are all just sen of
underlying either health or unhealth. Yeah, that's right. And you

(39:06):
mentioned obviously you're not a marriage therapist, which you know,
but you have also a lot of wisdom based on
based on twenty years plus of marriage right and through
helping hundreds of clients. So I am curious to talk
to you a little bit about money and relationships. You
talk to us maybe about having productive money conversations, Like
what if a couple keeps having the same fight over

(39:27):
and over, like the same money issue is kind of
at the root of those arguments. How can they progress
and get past those just the recurring it feels like
it's a record on repeat, same thing over and over.
How can they maybe move forward past just the same
unproductive money fights. Yeah, well, first of all, any money conversation,
I encourage people to keep it very short. So we

(39:50):
are not going to have uh, you know, three hour
money summit on our frinances on day one. We're not
exhausting exactly. Um. And so I think where people tend
to go wrong as they say, oh, we're going to
get this all together and fix it and blah blah blah,
and then they wear each other out on day one
and they don't even come back to it for a
couple of months because it was so tiring. So do

(40:13):
yourself a favor and schedule fifteen or twenty minutes and
talk about one thing the other thing is, and and
you know ground rules for whatever that one thing is,
and how do you know how you want to see
it resolved in that kind of thing and have a takeaway.
But if you are continuing to have the same fight
over and over. What I'm hearing is that one or

(40:34):
both of you are not being heard. So somebody is
continually bringing up the same subject because they feel unheard,
or you keep going back to that mountain that you
can't climb because somebody is not heard. And so um.
One of the tricks of communication, and this is that

(40:55):
you know, counselor therapist side is repeat what you believe
you heard, Like so what I hear you saying is
blah blah blah, or did you mean blah blah blah?
Is this correct? Blah blah blah? And then you know,
the whole point is why are they saying that? Tell

(41:20):
me more about why that showing up? And and so
a lot of times with money matters, we take it
so very personally. We've worked really hard for whatever income
we're bringing in, or we feel responsible for spending the
money or taking care of the household or whatever it is.
And so it's very sensitive for a lot of people

(41:42):
because it hits at the heart of time that you've
put into whatever it is. And so we've got to
really listen. And I think we're not really good at that. UM.
With social media, the idea that we can fass forward
or rewind all of our you know, TV shows and
all of that. We don't have to listen to stuff

(42:03):
or the sound bites are so short that it doesn't
leave room for real human connection, and so I think
that we have to relearn how to do that. But
I also think we need to not force either party
because usually there's a money nerd and and there's a
free spender in this equation, and we don't want the

(42:24):
nerd to overwhelm the free spirit by this, you know,
three hour long summit, fifteen or twenty minutes on one topic.
Let's understand how we're going to get this one thing
done and then move forward. And I think if people
will take those couple of tips, they'll really it'll really
be very helpful. That's so great. Yeah, I mean, you're
you're talking about being financially naked and vulnerable with your partner, Like,

(42:48):
how else do you you know you're talking about focusing
fifteen minutes one topic, you're talking about listening, are there's
some other ways that you encourage couples to get on
the same page work together to make this money progress.
Those are some great tips. I love if you had
any more? Yeah. Yeah, So my book is called you
Know and Make It Unashamed for a reason. I think
it's really important for people to reveal some of the

(43:12):
things that have made them feel a certain way. Right, So,
what what have you been ashamed about? What? What do
you wish you hadn't done? Let's dream together. I think
one of the biggest ways that we can get on
the same page as a couple is to dream. What
do you see five or ten years on the line.
Let's not talk about the budget today. Let's talk about

(43:33):
what do you see in the future. What would you
love to see happen? Is there a business in your heart?
What do you how do you you know? What? What
does retirement look like? Would you love to see the
kids go to college and be able to participate in that? Like?
What is it that makes your heart light up? And
get on the same page there. Let's be a cheerleader
for our partners future. Or let's say, oh my gosh,

(43:56):
I had no idea we were on the same page there.
We never talked about it. We don't give ourselves an
opportunity to think about down the line because we're so
worried about the things today, and so I think that
that's a really great way to get on the same page, um,
and to fully understand what each other wants. Yeah. What
just a great thing to do as a couple on

(44:16):
so many levels, but on a money level too, right,
Like just dreaming together. I think sometimes maybe, especially if
you've been married for the longer you've been together, sometimes
it's harder to retain some of the forward looking momentum
and some of the excitement about the future because you're
you're in the day to day, especially if you've got
young kids like Matt and I do. It's like life
just overwhelms you, and so you have to kind of

(44:37):
come back to the table and start dreaming together, um,
and reminding reminding each other about what you love about
one another, why you're excited to build a life together.
I mean, I think one of the other things too
that I'm learning I'm talking with some friends. Not everybody
are great dreamers, um. I think like Kate and I
we are very forward looking. And we've talked to some
other friends and they kind of absorb information around them

(44:58):
in retrospect, and so they're able to live in the
moment and see what they need to do now, or
they're able to kind of look back on their past
and so hard time looking forward. Yeah, yeah, And so
I think it can be difficult sometimes to kind of
cast that vision look ahead, ask that question, what do
you want to do in five ten years? And so
I guess what I want to highlight here is the
fact that it might take some work to do this dreaming.
And I think there might be a lot of folks

(45:19):
out there who are saying, I don't know what you
talking about? What do I want to dream about? Uh?
And so for those folks it might take a little
longer than just asking that question, but to actually spend
some time thinking about what they want their life to
look like. Well, and I think there's spun and experimentation,
so it may not be five years down the line.
I'm getting ready to be an empty nests in about

(45:39):
three months, both of them to be out of the house,
and my dreaming session is really about who does Erica
want to be now, and what are the hobbies that
will be uniquely my own? And what am I going
to get out of the house to go do since
I don't have high school events or a kid coming

(46:00):
um and things like that, and what are me and
my husband going to do together? So my dreaming really
isn't about retirement. At this point, we feel pretty confident
that we're going to be fine. But now like it's
it's about how are we going to enjoy one another
and how are we going to enjoy ourselves our life
that we get to create. Now that they're doing their
thing like that, you've got to kind of reassess those

(46:20):
as different life stages take home and you're entering a
completely new one. That's right, Absolutely well, congratulations to you
on that. And since you are last question before you
hear Erica, you have successfully raised kids to the point
where they can leave and you know not have to
hopefully move back into your basement. I guess I want
to I want to know how you involve your kids

(46:43):
in money conversations throughout the years, Like, how did that
work for you? How do you how do you advise
other people to include their children when they're talking about money,
because I grew up in a household where I heard
money arguments are heard very little in sort of positive
money reinforcement. But then there are people who are maybe
to forthright with their kids about the finances. So, yeah,

(47:04):
do you have kind of, um a strategy or a
way that you help people think about what it looks
like to include their kids and money, money decisions and combos. Yeah,
so I think it's really good to make money normal,
like normalize the whole conversation all throughout their lives, so
age appropriate. Obviously, you don't need to tell your two
year old, oh my gosh, we have this much for retirement, right,
Like we're not talking that, but making normal. Um. So,

(47:27):
for instance, if you're going to get ice cream, it's
totally fine to to let the two year old hand
the five dollar bill over that kind of stuff. It's normal,
it's not. And I think it's nowadays we have to
be very intentional because we don't use cash all the time,
and so sometimes those are the things that are age appropriate.
That would be great to be intentional. Um as they

(47:49):
get older, give them more responsibility to you know, work
in reward, you know, chores, and and having them to
to learn their own how to manage their own money
and things like that, and then when they get a job.
I think it's super important for teenagers to get a job.
I think that balancing act in high school is very
valuable and my husband and I. We basically said, we'll

(48:12):
pay half on your car, you pay the other half.
You earn the money to pay the other half. And um,
they both did it. And they both have vehicles that
they you know, my oldest she kept her vehicle for
four years through um, you or six years actually the
rest of high school and college. And my my youngest
is doing the same right now. Um and so. But
the biggest conversation that I think parents need to have

(48:35):
if you have made money a normal thing to discuss
along the way, is when they are a sophomore or
a junior in high school and you began to talk
about what's next, if college is next, you really need
to let them know what you are willing to do,
what you are capable of doing in terms of helping them,
or what it is and or I should say what

(48:57):
it is they need to do in order to make
their call it you know, goal of reality. It's really
hard to have a conversation about hundreds of thousands of
dollars if you haven't laid that foundation early and then
also set the expectation of we we will spend this
much on it, or we can't help at all, or

(49:18):
whatever it is. Be honest, because I think that is
the biggest impact for the rest of their lives, whether
or not they're going to have student loan debt or not,
or what it is that they need to do in
order for them to be able to go to school
for free or do something different. And so I think
that's the biggest financial impact. But again, if you've made
that foundation along the way, talking about money isn't scary. Um,

(49:43):
tell them about my kids knew we were getting out
of debt. They knew when they were young. Um, they
knew what the difference between debt and debit was. And
so those kinds of things are very helpful and build
that foundation for I want to get out of college
without debt because as my parents didn't do it, and

(50:03):
my oldest is graduating on Saturday and she's got no
debt to speak of, and so I think it's really
important that we, you know, build that foundation so that
you know, their biggest opportunity to make a difference in
their future does not come with strings. Attach that's right. Yeah,
it is hard to have those those big ticket items

(50:25):
when you haven't even talked about the day to day.
I love that that's that's so good. Um, have those conversations.
Make money conversations normal, and make money normal. That's what
you're trying to do here, Erica. That's what we're doing
here with how the money. We really appreciate you coming
on the show and sharing all these nuggets of wisdom
and just your experience with our listeners. Uh. If folks
wanted to learn more about you, what you're up to

(50:46):
your coaching business as well, where should they head? Yeah? So,
Taylor Made budget dot Com is the place to find me.
I'm on Instagram as well on Tailor Made Budgets, and
I love to interact with people individually on LinkedIn as well.
You can find me there at Erica young Erica, You're
the best. Thank you so much for joining us. We
really appreciate it. Thank you for having me all right, Matt,
that was a phenomenal conversation with eric on so much

(51:08):
good information, so much wisdom, and we covered just a
range of topics. We've really talked about money coaching to
that extent before, we haven't, but she made a compelling
case for hiring someone who is in your corner, who
isn't your best friend. So I don't know, I'm curious
to hear from you, what was your big takeaway from
this COMBA, It was related to that. So around the
end is when she was talking about like what we

(51:29):
were asking her about the trade offs that we make
in life and how does she walk someone through the
different expenses that they're facing in life. And basically what
she was saying and what she said she does is
that she questions everything, right, and so it's like okay,
And specifically the question she she brought up was what
value is this bringing to your life? I think I said,
how is this serving you? Yeah? That is what? Yeah.

(51:52):
But by questioning everything like that, I think it puts
everything on the table, like everything has the potential to
be asked. And I think oftentimes w there we are
trying to d I y our own budget, or maybe
before we're working with a partner, but sometimes there are
certain things that we're not willing to even address. But
when she steps into the equation, she is asking everything,
like you said, how is this serving you? And if

(52:13):
you don't have a good answer, then it is worth
considering removing that from your life. If you're looking to
catch your expenses, if you're looking to climb at a
debt that is the fastest way to do that. You
don't have to dedicate more time to earning more money
to pay off that debt. Let's let's just start slashing
some of these expenses. The reason why we always lead
lead into our interviews by asking what is your craft
beer equivalent? Because there are things that we spend money on,

(52:36):
but there should always be a good reason why it
is that we spend money on those things. And so
I love that that's something that she asks. But yeah,
how about you, man, what is your big dick away? Okay?
So I love when she said that you need to
face where you are and there there's the reality check. Yeah,
and so I said to be like, I need to
lose twenty pounds because I think I'm twenty pounds overweight.
If you're really fifty pounds overweight, like you need to
face the actual fact. You need to face the number

(52:58):
on the scale so that you can then make a
decent decision about where you need to go move from here.
How are you supposed to lose sym pounds if you
don't even have a scale or if you're you're refused
to get on it exactly. And so you know, one
of the things that she said, is signs that you
might need a financial coach is if your debt level
hasn't moved, if you're not making any progress, or if
you're following victim to wishful thinking. And I thought those

(53:19):
were all really good things to to help people know
when they need outside help. It's like a right, are
you just like believing overly optimistically? Maybe like I do
sometimes on on things not not necessarily money related. I
can be overly optimistic about my future, and I love
the fact that I'm an optimist, but there are times
when I do need to live in reality a little
bit more. And so maybe if you're falling victim to that,

(53:42):
if you constantly think, well, I'm going to do this,
this is gonna happen. I'm getting there, but you're not
actually getting anywhere. The numbers don't indicate that you're making
any progress. That might be that might indicate that you
need some sort of financial coach in your life in
order to help you make some progress and point out
maybe some of those flaws in your thinking or in
some of your behavior. So I don't know, I think

(54:02):
that's a good call, and I do think a financial coach.
Sometimes people think I need a financial planner, well, a
financial coach is actually completely different and probably from most folks.
What they need is a financial coach, not a financial planner.
It's not about growing your investments to the sky. It's
literally about changing some of those habits and behaviors and
kind of focusing on some of those everyday things. And
guess what, financial coaches are typically quite a bit less

(54:24):
expensive too, So I do think financial coaches are one
of those things that are underrepresented and and and probably
could help a whole lot more folks. So yeah, first,
for folks who find themselves, I think in a position
like this, I think a financial coach is probably a
really good place to turn. Totally. Yeah, a financial coach
can help you to get where I want to be.
And I swear we never do this, but we don't

(54:45):
often try to coordinate our beers with the topic of
the show. We just think about the style of beer
we want to enjoy. But literally, the name of the
beer we're drinking today is where I want to be.
This is by Deciduous Brewing Company. This is a hazy
New England style. I p a jel your thoughts man, robust, hop,
goodness are the words I wrote down it was a

(55:06):
great middle of the road hazy. I p A nothing
over the top, but nothing underwhelming. It left me just feeling,
you know, just happy, like Goldilock style, the perfect Tampa,
the perfect beer right here. I loved it. That's right, man.
It was just right, not too hazy, but not too
perfectly clear West Coast style. I p A h nice
and sweet with some of that hop sharpness going on
a fantastic brew that we've never heard of before, deciduous.

(55:29):
We'll be sure to check out more beers from them.
If you've had some other beers, maybe reach out to us,
let us know what other beers we should be checking out,
because we just started getting their stuff here in Atlanta.
So I saw him on the shelf, I was like, okay,
all right, worth a try for sure, and this one
at least didn't disappoint, that's right. Yeah. So you can
find show notes up on the website at how to
money dot com along with a picture of this beer,
and we also make sure to link to Eric's book

(55:50):
that we mentioned during this episode as well as her sites.
You can find all of that at how the Money
dot com. Joel, that's gonna be it for today Buddy
until next time. Best friends out, best friends out m