December 31, 2025 • 41 mins
In the fourth installment of his series on the Darién Gap, James talks to migrants at Lajas Blancas reception center north of the Darién, who can often be stuck there for months without the money to continue their journeys.
Original Air Date: 10.31.24
Sources:
https://www.instagram.com/p/DAaDkSwh1Jk/?igsh=bmgyanBteW10czd5
https://www.themanual.com/outdoors/darien-gap-feature/
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/apr/18/panama-darien-gap-jose-raul-mulino
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/10/27/the-darien-gap-a-deadly-extension-of-the-us-border
https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/supporting_resources/jmhs.pdf
https://www.strausscenter.org/publications/asylum-processing-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-august-2024/
https://www.msf.org/lack-action-sees-sharp-rise-sexual-violence-people-transiting-darien-gap-panama
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
It's me James, and before we listen to this episode today,
I just did want to make you aware that I
conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, mostly Spanish, and
then transcribed and translated them. So what you're hearing is
a translated interview that's being edited for brevity and content.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Ramato. Some of you recognize the audio that we opened
(01:14):
this show with, and then if you won't, it's a
sample from the fourth Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle that
Manuchow used to open his shows with. It's a piece
of music that's very emotive for me. Obviously, I'm a
white leftist guy in my thirties who learned Spanish and
decided to live in Barcelona. So I have a story
about running into Manuchow once where he was busking, but
that's not what I want to share today. Because I'm
(01:35):
technology challenged, I can't seem to get my phone to
download songs, but I've managed to download the same Manuchow playlist,
and I ripped off a rewriteable CD when I was
in high school and put it on the various headphones
and garment. Watch it that I've had of the last
two decades or so. When I'm away for work, I
like to run whenever I can. Obviously, I wasn't just
going to go for a jog straight into the Darien Gap.
(01:56):
But once we were out of Bajajiqito, it gave me
some time to run and think and process the things
that I've seen. And while I do that, I listen
to the same does and al So MP three files.
I was listening to this song one day after I
got back from LaaS Blancas as I sweated my way
up ahead in the rainforest, hoping to see a sloth.
I didn't see a sloth, but it seemed like an
(02:18):
appropriate soundtrack. Manucho himself as a child of refugees from
Francoist Spain. He sings in French and Spanish, while off
and Galician and Portuguese, among other languages, often several of
them in the same song, the product of growing up
among other migrants of diverse backgrounds. I like the way
he plays with language because it reminds me of the
way I so often speak to my friends Spanglish, for example,
(02:41):
or Franglais. It's the way people talk in border regions
and refugee camps, languages that don't have the support of
a state or the academy, but nonetheless convey so much
meaning for so many people. That song in particular reminds
me of my first time reading about Zapatismo in a
tiny anarchist cafe in the West Midlands. I remember being struck,
as a kid from Europe who would frequently drive to
(03:02):
France or Belgium to race bikes and buy cheap beer,
that the USA still maintained a fortified border with Mexico.
People couldn't travel freely, but money could. It was its
realization and the writings in particular Socomante Marcos, along with
my talks in Spain to old anarchists, that encouraged me
to learn Spanish, which I pursued by spending months in
(03:22):
Spain and Venezuela and learning thanks to the patient to
the people around me. It was a new anarchism which
came from the periphery, not only a liberal corps, which
gave me my first serious politics. I traveled to Venezuela
to understand the revolution there. I did a PhD to
try and understand the revolution in Spain. It's all very
well understanding things, but I think it's much more important
(03:43):
to do things, and I tried to practice mutual aid
as much as I can. Since I got back from
the daddy En, I've loaded up a heavy backpack and
carried water into the desert and spent hours trying to
connect the friends I made in the jungle with services
along the way. In the face of so much cruelty,
it feels it's good to be doing something to help
a carrying the water is away. I can make a
material difference in a terrible situation. But in all my
(04:06):
time reporting, I've really never felt as disempowered and helpless
as I did in Last Blancas. Here at the first
official migrant reception center after Daddi Enne. The Panamanian government
registers migrants NGOs, offer a few services, and the US
funded process of deportation for migrants from Colombia, Cuba, Venezuela
(04:27):
and India begins. Some of those sent to India might
well be Nepalese who often travel on fake Indian passports.
The Siddle cluster of cheap tents, shipping container offices, un shelters,
and barbed wire offences is where the rubber meets a
road for the USA's border and migration policy, and it's
heartbreaking to witness as migrants were called up to the
(04:47):
security office to begin the deportation process. I tried to
narrate the scene into my voice recorder, but I struggled,
in part because their family members asked me questions, hoping
I can help.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yeah, planks on a side.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
But in a larger part this was also difficult because
I couldn't help, and I deeply wanted to. The best
I could offer was an arm around someone's shoulder, and
I promise to email anyone who I could think of
and ask what was going on.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
This guy's just sobbing.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, that's really tough. Some people's parents, some people's partners.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
And.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I'll explain exactly what was happening in a moment, But
first I want to explain how I got here. On
the day we left Maragante, we set off at the
same time some migrants who are making their own journey
to last Blankets is carrying only myself and my fixed
daddy and Aguero, so we're moving a lot faster than
the boats full of migrants on the way north. We
(06:00):
passed them, they smiled and waves we rode by. Many
of them had met me the day before. All of
them were ecstatic to have survived the daddy en and
be heading north. You know, it's a pretty busy stretch
river that's probably three or four Piagua was full of migrants.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Hello, they're kids shogging at me.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Going to taught them some English words yesterday and they're
shouting them back to me today.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Which is nice. We got it family from Panama. They
might be Indio people are something.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
They're littleville shocked to the whole scene. Here we are
passing another bit of Agua. Now they're all waving in
the it's got to be uncomfortable pack that don't see
into a bi Agua one, two, three, four or five, six, seven,
(07:01):
eighty nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirty sixteen people.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Once they boath arrived, they disembark in Last Blancas. The
next day I was there to meet them. We're just
walking into Las Blancas. It's hectic here, so it's a
new shop here, and outside the shop they've made like
a line of outlets to charge people. It's a dollar
an hour to charge your telephone. As we go in,
(07:28):
there are a row of like kind of sheds which
represent shops. And then further in every ngo has its
own little kind of shed. They're all covered in tarps.
They're like canvas and tarp tents. Actually here so see
UNISEEF I see oh I am.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Yeah, they have that sort of little tent office here.
I guess.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
See here as for example, has route information, psychological supports.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
They've spaced for women.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
WONISEF has some workshops for children. And then in the hours,
I guess, nice little chairs in there.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Yeah see. Then you can't take photographs in there, which
is good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
And then it's just a crowd of people coming out.
And there's also Mormon, little little Mormon situation.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
See me.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I guess thee o I am are supported by Church
of Jesus Christ on that today Saints and the.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Red Cross has got a shipping container.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I've been hoping last Black Gusts would be a better
scene than Bajugito, with more organized sleeping arrangements and hopefully
basic necessities like clean water, food and Wi Fi provided
by their numerous NGOs who work there. But if any
think it was worse in Bajo Jugito. In Bajuquito, migrants
were exhausted but also ecstatic to be at the jungle.
They you they'll be moving forward the next day, and
(09:02):
for a few bucks they can get anythink they needed
in the village. The locals told me that if kids
didn't have their money to eat, they fed them for free.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I didn't see this, but nobody's seen.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
That they're having a very hard time in any of
the dayta viceded the village, at least not for financial reasons.
Maggots can get as far as Bajo Jiguito on a
few hundred dollars in their t nasty They pay Columbian
guides a few hundred bucks to bring them across the
ocean from Necopie and to walk them from the border,
and they parried and barra Perraguero's twenty five bucks for
the ride up the river. But once they get to
(09:32):
last Blankerts. For a good number of migrants, their journey
grinds to a halt. Many of them told me they've
been stuck in the camp for weeks or even months
because they couldn't get that sixty dollars that they needed
to pay for their travel north. There's no Western Union
in the camp, and the only way to transfer money
is very local intermediary who charges between twenty and twenty
five percent of the sum being transferred as a fee.
(09:54):
In the morning, migrants arrive on their paraguas, just as
we did. I dropped down the boat ramp when I
saw them to help with their bags, and I'll go
about their journey from there. They formed two lines, one
for men and one for women and children. They have
their bag search and their passport checked. They're given a
welcome kit for the Red Cross with some basic necessities
toilet paper, a toothbrush, some soap, stuff like that, or
(10:19):
some of them get a kid. When the kids ran out,
it was long before the line of people did. By
the time the men were finished, they were given a
little more than a shrug and good wishes better Red
Cross volunteers and allowed to head off into the camp.
Within the camp, there are a few rows of small
casitas that are allocated to un accompanied children and families.
They're little more than four walls in a roof, but
(10:39):
they offer a bit of privacy for most migrants, though
there isn't space and they have to search for a
spot of empty ground in the crowded camp where they
can pitch. The same tents. They bought a necko Keley.
The WiFi, which a Red Cross usually provides, wasn't working
when I arrived, so I had to let people hot
spot off my phone all day. At least the promised
food really was free, but the migrant told me it
(11:00):
was far from good. Still, this is supposed to be
a temporary camp. People register here, get any medical attention
they need, and then move forward to Costa Rica. That's
the theory anyway. In practice, if you can't get the
sixty bucks, you need to move forward, or someone stole
it from me in the jungle, or you are forced
to walk to the camp because you didn't have twenty
five bucks for the boat and then someone rubbed you.
(11:22):
Then you're stuck.
Speaker 7 (11:27):
We have been here a month. You have people who've
been here a month and a half. I've been twenty
seven days here. Well, I thank god because we have
three meals a day, we have water, but it still
hurts the girls. The food and water always make me
sick with diarrhea. It bothers me. I vomit and the
heat is so desperate. But we have to hold on
(11:50):
because even though we don't have the resources, like we
don't have enough to pay for a ticket. We have
to hold on here a little longer. We don't have
any family members can give us support.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Either.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
What's keeping the migrants here is money, or rather a
lack of it. They need sixty bucks to leave. Buses
used to take five free passengers per bus, but under
Panama's new regime it seems like they don't. Instead, migrants
just gradually a mass in growing number of tents that
populate the grassy areas of LaaS blankets. They might try
and do some informal work. I saw one guy who
(12:23):
was cutting hair for a dollar a time, but I
couldn't really get a satisfactory response to what they're expected
to do. If they don't have the money and can't
get someone to send us seventy five dollars, they'd need
to cover their travel costs and the twenty five percent transfer.
Speaker 7 (12:35):
Feel if you're short ten dollars, they don't put you
on the bus or anything. So things are terrible here.
There should at least be support for migrants who at
least come with few resources. They don't have money or anything.
They can search your bag so they can see that
you're not lying that you don't have money, because nobody
(12:57):
wants to be stuck here. You have to move forward,
because nobody wants to be stuck here in Panama. The
idea is to move forward to get further ahead. We
brought our children to look for a future, not to
be locked up here in Panama, as if we've been imprisoned.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
The group even tried to leave on foot, hoping to
begin walking north, and so it's for better future and
a way to make money on their way. But they
were caught, they say, and returned to the camera.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
And they beat me hard. I gave myself up because
they had caught her, a grandmother with my other daughter.
I returned myself voluntarily, and they beat me up anyway.
And from there we've lost the desire to walk back there.
What can we do rights? They don't care about them.
We are human beings, but we don't have rights here
(13:48):
in Panama.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
If they do have the money, Margarets could take a
bus to the Costa Rican border. When the busts first arrived,
I tried to describe the scene as migrants rushed to
buy food, not only for this journey, but also for
their journey through Costallika, where food and other basics are
much more expensive. I'm here in La Lablancas when the
first buses have arrived.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
It's about noon.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
The first bus is going to be followed people who
had been waiting in line for hours already, so they're
kind of lining up by the bus.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
And then.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
The next bus is people seem to be kind of
rushing to get to them. They're rushing to my food.
I can just see this guy has like an entire
carrier bag full of pink Wave for biscuits and coke bottles,
that that's going to be his food for the next
eleven hours.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
I guess other guys.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Will see with bags of bread, rolls and stuff, and
they're the first people.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Are getting on the bus.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Now, these buses aren't entirely safe. In twenty twenty three,
forty two people died in a bus crash. This year,
seventeen were innted in a crash in August. Now, migration
offices ride in each bus with the migrants to check
on safety protocols and make sure they don't get off
anywhere else in the country, just like everywhere else on
their journey.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
People make money off the migrants.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
In Las Blancats, a bus costs sixty dollars ahead and
has fifty five passages three thousand, three hundred dollars a bus.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
More than a dozen buses.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Leave every day, and even half of a thousand or
so people who arrived us a transfer service to get
their bus fare. That's seven five hundred dollars in transfer
fees alone. Of course, not everyone in the community is
making thousands of dollars off the migrants. I interviewed local
shopkeeper who still sits just outside the camp gates, and
I asked him to explain his stock, which included the
(15:28):
oddly popular I backed the blue Thin blue.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Lion T shirt. So I'd seen several people across the
daddy and gap.
Speaker 8 (15:33):
In Okay, Mayamo your only fucking money.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
I asked him what was the most common shopping list
for migrants.
Speaker 8 (15:48):
See Cassie lay.
Speaker 9 (15:52):
Yes, almost all of them coming by sets for ten, fifteen,
twenty dollars. It depends there are many who don't have them.
I have children's sets for five dollars. I have sets
for five dollars that are pants and sweaters, which is
what they're looking for the most. Those that are socks
without underwear, backpacks for fifteen dollars. Because the backpack is
so worn out and they need it so much that
it carries their belongings. Look, it's not really everyone who
(16:15):
can buy. There are certain people who buy, of course,
if everyone bought, but there are very few can buy
something to leave here. Almost seventy percent leave dirty because
they don't have anywhere to get money, and the little
they can get often comes from selling their phones, their watch,
a cap, or their sneakers to be able to get
money to pay for their fare to keep going.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I asked him how the migration had impacted the community
with people making a lot of money, I asked, were
they mad about the trash and the pollution of the river.
These are legitimate concerns, even if they used in bad
faith against the migrants.
Speaker 8 (16:47):
No effect.
Speaker 9 (16:48):
Though nobody is perfect, but I can tell you one thing. Honestly,
the migrants suffer a lot to be able to carry
out this journey. And there are many times when I've
even had to give them clothes, some because they don't
have any. And well, when a father and family with
children comes, what can I say, Look, I have a family,
I have to do this.
Speaker 8 (17:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I asked him what he felt the solution was to
the suffering here the damage done both to people and planet.
Speaker 9 (17:12):
Hey, I say that oppressing people so that they don't
go through the dairyen is not the solution because if
you put it to the point, even if they don't
know an exact percentage, the immigrant gives the economy of
the United States a balance because the people born there.
Not to criticize them, people born there want a stable job,
(17:33):
and he doesn't want to feel like he's very very low. However,
the immigrant is there and he's picking fruit, going to
the fruit trees, going to the vegetable fields, going to
the garbage dumps, going picking up things that many Americans
who live there don't do, of course, and so they
need them to say that they don't go. They need
the support of the immigrant to be able to have
the balance that they have today.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Like a lot of Panamanians I met, he was broadly
in solidarity the migrants. I didn't really encounter anti migrants
sentiment at all in my time at Panama. In the
capital city, which locals just called Panama but we can
call Panama City, migrants are not really physically present, nor
are they present in conversation. I found the transition for
the jungle and the refugee camps back to the bustling
(18:18):
city pretty challenging a lot of ways. I find I'm
oddly comfortable amidst the chaos and trauma of a refugee camp.
It's a familiar environment for me, and I know how
to conduct myself. I feel safe with the migrants, and
I tend to find them very open and welcoming to me.
I can talk to anyone, and they can talk to me.
I bring toys for children and try to bring resources
(18:38):
for adults, and sometimes I bring my harmonica if I
being really cliche in a weird way. Refugee camps are
a little safe space for me, and even though I
know it's bad, I can console myself that I'm helping
a little or at least giving people some hope and
some information. That made me feel a bit better. But
in the city I found it hard, knowing that people
were in a terrible situation and that nobody here seemed
(18:59):
to care. I went for a running the jungle near
the city, trying to get some perspective and clear my head,
but I just ended up screaming and didn't considerate driver.
I was angry at them for nearly hitting me, but
I was just angry at everyone all over the US
and even here in Panama City for their indifference at
so much human suffering. The lack of concern about migrants
(20:14):
in Panama City made what I saw next at Last
Blankets even more surprising. An announcement of the loud speakers
called several Colombian passport holders to the migration office. At first,
it seemed like they were just going to a little
wooden shed with a couple of cene front officers in
it to return their documents. I had already noticed that
some migrants, and seemingly most of the African migrants, were
(20:34):
being called to a different shed to do biometric scans.
I wondered if this was part of the same process.
But shortly thereafter a truck rolled up and several of
the Colombians were loaded in. Apparently neither they nor their
partners knew what was going on. They're taking some of
the Columbian guys away to deport them. You can hear
a little kid crying for his dad.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Okay, listen, you sell a.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Jure taking his brother and his brother's wife, taking some
other lady's husband, some of little.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Kid's dad and making them sit on the floor. I
don't know why. Yeah, I don't know what they're going
to do.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Now.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
She's trying to.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Give her husband the money and a SIM card so
he can call her.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
You're gonna go get some more food.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Other margarets approached me to us if I knew, which
I didn't. The one lady who'd been there for weeks
told me that people who leave this way never come
back and they end up being deported, So we assume
that's what's happening here.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Yeah, this really sucks.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Now they're taking the deportation by. There's men crying.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Becau said.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Wives are on their women crying, their husbands are on
their kids are crying, their parents are on there, and
they've just done this crossing and now they're going to
send them back. By the time I got back to
the city, I was getting texts from migrants with photos
of them in handcuffs. More and more of them were
being deported, particularly the Colombians. One of them, texting me
(22:25):
after being returned to Columbia on a flight, gave the
following account of detention.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
They treated us very badly verbally and psychologically. We all
had to do our business in the same cell and
they threw food on the floor for us to eat
as we were all in handcuffs. They told us that
of Venezuelan had burned down the migrant detention center in
San Vincente and that we would all pay for it,
and that the Colombians didn't need to leave the country
because the president there said it was doing well and
(22:52):
there's plenty of work. None of that is true.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
The American facility in sambacent they was burned out, and
the people working there top it was a Venezuelan migrant
who did that.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
But all of that excuses any of this.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
We weren't able to access that facility as the people
who had detained there. I can't really consent meaningfully to
an interview. That's a fair enough for paction. But the
migrant who was deported also alleged that they received no
hearings or a chance to appeal their deportation. Instead, they
were detained for eight days, spent their last US dollars,
and were then kicked out of the country. They were
(23:25):
not detained or arrested upon reaching Columbia, which makes it
a little more difficult for me to believe the claim
that only people without standing warrants in Columbia were being deported.
These weren't the only allegations of mistreatment I heard. Margrants
came to me and whispered about the abuse of black
migrants who were forced to walk to Lahas Blancos because
they couldn't afford the boat ride. I should note that
it wasn't the migrants who had been robbed or abuse
(23:47):
that came to me, It was other migrants. There was
a group of guys had given a water filter too
while they were leaving to walk from Lahas Blancas. I
hadn't been able to join them, but when they got there,
we ran into each other again, and they came up
to meet to share their concerns for the black men
who had walked with them. In one instance, one migrant
told me he was robbed by what he called quote
(24:07):
police dressed as thieves. The deportations, which seemed to be
increasingly commonplace, are being funded by US taxpayer dollars. The
same day that Molino took office in July, Homeland Security
Secretary Alejandro Majorcas, himself the child of migrants.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Visited Panama.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Panama's a relatively young country and one which the US
occupied part of from much of the last century, but
despite a real struggle for independence, the Panamanian government didn't
seem concerned that the U. S Secretary of Homeland Security
was present at the inauguration of a president in a
country that decidedly not the U S homeland. The official
DHS readout of his trip notes that the US has
(24:45):
enjoyed a flourishing strategic relationship with Panama for over one
hundred years, which is certainly one way to sew up
decades of occupation, violence, and profit from the Panama Canal
and one of the more brutal dictatorships in the long
list of authoritarian regimes that the US preferred to com minister,
even socialist governments in the Western Hemisphere. They also announced
that the US government would quote help the Panamanian government
(25:06):
to remove foreign nationals who do not have a legal
basis to remain in Panama. Obviously, actually take this moment
to note that under the United Nations Refugee Convention, refugees
do have a legal right to travel.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Through a country on route to another. His Erica describing
that right.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
The refuge you canvention is complex, then, does afford a
lot of rights to people who have fled their countries
based on persecution. You know, you're supposed to be able
to pass through whichever country you want, go to, whichever
country you want, not be criminally prosecuted for crossing the
border between ports of entry and not be turned back
to a country or you face harm.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
The US allocated six million dollars for a six month
pilot program of repatriations. If the program meets the USA's goals,
they might consider expanding it to other countries along the
migrant route. According to reporting in routers, as of early October,
they've deported five hundred and thirty people to Columbia. That's
half of the people I saw arriving in a single
day in Bajojigito. Because Panama's government and Venezuela's government have
(26:04):
ceased relations after the election, Panama is now struggling to
deport Venezuelan's back to Venezuela, and it's actively searching for
a third country into which to deport them. But even
if the program resulted in one plane loaded day, which
it hasn't yet, that would be roughly ten percent of
the total DADDY in traffic, and far fewer planes are traveling.
What it will do like so many other DHS policies,
(26:26):
is play into the hands of smugglers. Already, new ocean
routes are being used which see migrants, many of whom
cannot swim, taking long journeys around Panama on ill equipped boats.
This doesn't help anyone apart from the DHS contractors and
staff equipping and training Panamanian personnel, and the human traffickers
making more and more money from migration. I also shopkeeper
(26:47):
his opinion on this.
Speaker 8 (26:53):
Look.
Speaker 9 (26:53):
I'll tell you I think that instead of giving them
a reward for deportation, they should give them support, a
lot of support, because it is a huge sacrifice to
leave your country where you were born, your children, your family,
leave it to be able to have a future, and
you go with your mentality that your future is the
United States that will give you an opportunity to get
ahead and give well being to your children. Now, ten
(27:17):
percent of those who go are going to destroy the
good name of the migrants, But what people really want
to do is help their family, and this balance unbalances
everything that is being done by good people. Because there
are many good people who want to get ahead. And
I think that the United States should support give support
to people who really want to fight and move forward.
(27:37):
As I just told you, they give a lot of
benefit they contribute to the country.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
After leaving Las Blancas, I felt pretty down about the
fact that people were just hitting a wall that they
couldn't overcome. Since then, I've stayed in touch with many
of them. For some a friend or family member was
able to send the money and they made it to
Costaly on the bus. From there, they crossed quickly into
Nicaragua and Guatemala before arriving in.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
The Mexican border city of Tapachula in the state of.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Chiapas and ironically not so very far from whether the
Zapatistas made their revolution thirty years ago. Once they crossed
the southern border of Mexico, migrants can begin their application
for asylum using the CBP one app that we've talked
about so much on the show before. They can use
it in Tabasco and Chiapas, the southern border states, and
then once again when they're north of Mexico City. To
(28:54):
recap very briefly, the app is terrible and almost every way,
including its inability to recognize blackfaces. It's limited functionality on
Android phones, which is a vast majority of devices used
by migrants. It's constant crashing, an eight to nine month
wait time for Sylum appointments. His Erico, explaining some of
those problems.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
You have to have a relatively new smartphone, you have
to have an address, all the people you're traveling with
have to be with you right, and you have to
first get through the initial kind of registration phase, which
doesn't always work.
Speaker 6 (29:27):
The program is very glitchy.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
You have to take a live photo, and you have
to wait essentially, so you know, it's kind of random too.
Some people will get an appointment within three months, but
I would say most people are waiting nine to twelve
At this point. You don't have any legal status in
Mexico while you're waiting, unless you can apply for some
other status in Mexico independently.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
That it is yet very poorly designed. It's also a
de facto a metering system on asylum.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Erico explaining that we've been litigating against the use of
CBP one for a few years now. My organization out
at the level and Haitian ViRGE Alliance, and the reason
why we are fighting against the required use of CBP
one is first because it is an illegal metering system.
So we've already litigated the fact that there is no
(30:17):
number limit on the amount of individuals who can seek
asylum at the US Mexico border, and Customs and Border
Protection legally does not have the right to turn people away,
and CBP one essentially allows them to do that. You know,
there were physical metering lists at ports of entry before
CBP one was implemented as essentially the only way to
(30:40):
access the US asylum system at ports of entry, and
now it's a digital metering list and it's very limited.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Recently, the Department of Homeland Security lost a court case
which forced them to release records in there with some
of the app plugs and data regarding CBP one. I'm
still in the phase of coming through that asking my friends,
you know more about technologies than I do. Eplain exactly
what the limitations with the app are, but it doesn't
really matter. DHS is well aware of the app's flaws,
and it doesn't really seem to see the most flaws
(31:08):
at all. The goal of the app is to make
it harder for people, even those with very legitimate asylum claims,
to obtain asylum in the USA. As we heard yesterday.
The CHNV program is no better a recently Reddit thread
of applicants who've been waiting nearly two years. What I
didn't mention yesterday is a parallel program for another group
of migrants, which I'll let Erica explain.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
I want to mention the fact that there is a
cap right.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
I think it's thirty thousand a month or something like
that for those four countries.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
But it's almost identical to.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
The Ukrainian United for a Ukraine program, which doesn't have
a cap right, so there's no limit to how many
Ukrainians can get the same benefit. And they are renewing
the humanitarian prole for Ukrainians, which I believe was just
announced almost within weeks of them announcing that they're not
renewing for the other four countries. So it's really a
(32:00):
very stark demonstration of how the US immigration system, even
when it's a relatively meter or benefit, is based on race,
is based on which country you're from.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
What this means is that in practice, the migrants I
spoke to face a long and dangerous way in Mexico
while others skip ahead. I've got nothing against the Ukrainians,
and I don't think many of them do either. I
tried to go to Ukraine and report, but the avisas
ended up taking so long that I missed the flights
that I'd booked. I have, however, a serious problem with
(32:33):
a Biden administration which left people who fought alongside its
own US troops to die in Afghanistan and turned away
migrants small over the world, but then opened its arms
to a country that just happened to have the majority
of its citizens be the same race as the president.
It's cruel and it's wrong, and it's barely ever even
mentioned in national media coverage. But that's not fortunate enough
(32:54):
to be Ukrainian. Here's what waiting in Mexico looks like.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
The incidence of crime director at migrants is horrifyingly high.
We had done an electronic survey a few years ago,
and this was during Title forty two, when people were
just being expelled to Mexico, and if I remember correctly,
it was like around twenty five to thirty percent of
people had been either raped.
Speaker 6 (33:20):
Sex traffic assaulted, kidnapped. I mean, the list goes on
and on.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
We've seen a lot of people lose their lives just
due to violence and the kidnapping rates are through the roof.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Almost everyone you've heard from in this series is now
stuck in Mexico. Some of them have been kidnapped, paid,
ransomed and released. Some of them have been sexually assaulted.
Many of them have been robbed. Some of them have,
after surviving one of the most deadly land migration routes
on Earth, been killed while waiting in Mexico for an
app to stop crashing on their phones. Over a week
(33:52):
since I got home, I've seen them go gradually more
desperate and afraid just to get to Mexico. Many of
them have spent several thousand dollars. Once they're in Tapatula,
they faced with the astronomical costs for the trip north,
often several thousand dollars more, and many of them, their
phones exhausted, have slept on the streets. Those didn't speak
Spanish struggle to find refuge. Those who did wanted to
(34:15):
move quickly north, but struggle to find the money here.
The Iranian migrants you heard earlier in the series explaining
what they'd already heard about CBP one.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
It's so tough because the some polices in their way,
they are two to our money that we came from Iran.
It was so difficult for us, and the resumed a way.
So Mexico, Mexico is so difficult for us, and something
is CBP one is not working for our for us,
(34:47):
for Iranian people, Yeah, I hope the people who are
in Mexico City for about three months, for three.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Months, yeah, CPP wanted.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (34:59):
Because of that, Iranian people go through the wall and yeah, yeah,
it's it's not our choice. We have to do this.
We don't want them, but it's we have to do this.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Yeah, it's good to explain that.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
According to a study conducted at the University of Texas,
wait times are as high as eight or nine months
on average now Mexico and out. It's on the thirty
first of August that it will provide security and food
for migrants who have an appointment to travel north from
the south of the country to the place where they
have a CVP one appointment. Margarets absolutely have been robbed
or kidnapped on their way to their appointment and missed
it as a result, But they're just as honorable in
(35:35):
the eight or nine months that they have to wait
for one. Margarets and Tapajula are at a very high
risk for kidnapping and are often held until their families
pay ransoms. But without money or an appointment, they have
little means of leaving the city. Some choose to travel
a little further north and then hop on a freight
train known as Labestia the Beast, an extraordinarily risky endeavor
(35:56):
that several of the people I spoke to for this
series have undertaken. The only place to ride on these
trains is on top of carriages, exposing migrants to freezing
temperatures in the desert night. Even on the train, they're
not safe from kidnapping. Like many migrants, the Iranian group
were well informed about domestic politics in the US, and
they said that when they made their journey north, they
(36:17):
wanted to be sure to avoid the states where local
law enforcement was likely to turn them over for deportation.
In reality, that could be any of the states, but
they're probably right that their life would be a little
easier on the West Coast.
Speaker 8 (36:29):
I heard it's so difficult and about three months, four months,
more than seven months, they will arrest us in the US.
I heard in Mississippi it takes us in Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that the California is a little little, little.
Speaker 10 (36:47):
Yeah earlier, Our money is very excuse me, shds money
in the world, and we have to pay a lot
of money for this way because.
Speaker 8 (37:00):
How one yeah, one dollar is sixteen thousand.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Some of course, which use to cross the border between
ports of entry as they become desperate to see their
families or afraid of remaining in Mexico. Since President Biden's
executive audio earlier this summer, doing this can result expedited
removal proceedings, and effectively, Biden's new ruling denies asylum by
default to anyone crossing the border when daily crossings sur
(37:28):
passed twenty five hundred. In fact, this is the continuation
of extremely punitive and cruel politics that have been in
place since he was finally forced to stop using Title
forty two, which, if you're not aware, is a public
health law used by the Trump administration and embraced by
the Biden administration as an asylum law. It has already
resulted in the deportations of people back to places where
they have extremely credible fears of harm and created a
(37:51):
system whereby migrants have no idea how they will be
treated on any given day. Again, it's play into the
hands of anyone seeking to smoke or migrants into the
country and detective well also harming innocent people coming to
this country to US for protection. He's Erica's short history
of Biden's asylent policy since last year.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
So when the Biden administration lifted Title forty two, they
essentially imposed what I call a transit then.
Speaker 6 (38:16):
So there's a couple of components to it.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
One is, if you do not enter the United States
out of port of entry with a CDP one appointment,
you are presumed ineligible for asylum unless you fall under
a few narrow exceptions which are not consistently applied. So
the exceptions are things like you were having a medical emergency,
you were running for your life, you know, you couldn't
(38:40):
access the app for some reason. But in practice those
exceptions are almost never applied at ports. There's been a
few kind of alternative programs run by shelters or local
governments where people with extreme medical vulnerabilities, for example, can
be let in without an appointment, but we don't know
(39:02):
whether the ban applies to them once they enter without
that appointment, right, So it's like I said, inconsistently applied exceptions.
If you enter between a port of entry, you're presumed
and eligible for asylum again unless you meet some narrow exceptions.
Speaker 6 (39:16):
And what that means is you can still.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
Apply for other types of protection in the United States.
So there's two principal types of protection. One it's called
withholding a removal, which is like asylum but with a
higher standard. And then the other is Convention against Torture,
which you just have to prove it's more likely than
not that your own government will torture you, which is
more extreme than persecution. But is it necessarily based on
(39:41):
a protected ground, So the torture gived you for any reason,
but it's a high hurdle. But the most important thing
is those two types of protection are not pased to
citizenship and they do not allow you to petition for
your family. So, for example, if you get asylum in
the US and then you want to ask for your
life and children to join you, there is an avenue
(40:02):
for that, and all of you can eventually become citizens.
Withholding a removal and Convention against Torture, you basically get
a work from it. If conditions in your country change,
they can deport you and you can never leave the
United States, and you can never reunify with your family,
and you could never become a citizen.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
This won't deter people. I speak to people every day
who cross the Daddy in We're kidnapped, robbed, and sometimes
raped on their way here. They're going through all of
that because we refuse to give people a dignified or
safe way to come here. They know it's a risk,
and they continue to come because they think it's the
only option. His powers from Cameroon and explaining.
Speaker 6 (40:39):
That it's deadly, how will I to you it's fifty
fifty alive on date, honestly speakause.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
But we had to take their rigs because I think
that was the.
Speaker 10 (40:49):
Only all from that we had.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
If you can't imagine taking those risks, it's likely because
you can't imagine the things these people are.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Leaving behind either.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
As a conflict reporter, I've been able to see a
small amount of what they're fleeing, war, death, poverty, state violence.
I don't know if i'd be brave or strong enough
to do the same, but I have a lot of
respect for people who can. Tomorrow we're going to talk
about the people who help them along the way and
what you can do to support them when the state works.
Speaker 11 (41:23):
It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can now find sources for it could Happen Here
listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
It's me James, and before we listen to this episode today,
I just did want to make you aware that I
conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, mostly Spanish, and
then transcribed and translated them. So what you're hearing is
a translated interview that's being edited for brevity and content.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Ramato. Some of you recognize the audio that we opened
(01:14):
this show with, and then if you won't, it's a
sample from the fourth Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle that
Manuchow used to open his shows with. It's a piece
of music that's very emotive for me. Obviously, I'm a
white leftist guy in my thirties who learned Spanish and
decided to live in Barcelona. So I have a story
about running into Manuchow once where he was busking, but
that's not what I want to share today. Because I'm
(01:35):
technology challenged, I can't seem to get my phone to
download songs, but I've managed to download the same Manuchow playlist,
and I ripped off a rewriteable CD when I was
in high school and put it on the various headphones
and garment. Watch it that I've had of the last
two decades or so. When I'm away for work, I
like to run whenever I can. Obviously, I wasn't just
going to go for a jog straight into the Darien Gap.
(01:56):
But once we were out of Bajajiqito, it gave me
some time to run and think and process the things
that I've seen. And while I do that, I listen
to the same does and al So MP three files.
I was listening to this song one day after I
got back from LaaS Blancas as I sweated my way
up ahead in the rainforest, hoping to see a sloth.
I didn't see a sloth, but it seemed like an
(02:18):
appropriate soundtrack. Manucho himself as a child of refugees from
Francoist Spain. He sings in French and Spanish, while off
and Galician and Portuguese, among other languages, often several of
them in the same song, the product of growing up
among other migrants of diverse backgrounds. I like the way
he plays with language because it reminds me of the
way I so often speak to my friends Spanglish, for example,
(02:41):
or Franglais. It's the way people talk in border regions
and refugee camps, languages that don't have the support of
a state or the academy, but nonetheless convey so much
meaning for so many people. That song in particular reminds
me of my first time reading about Zapatismo in a
tiny anarchist cafe in the West Midlands. I remember being struck,
as a kid from Europe who would frequently drive to
(03:02):
France or Belgium to race bikes and buy cheap beer,
that the USA still maintained a fortified border with Mexico.
People couldn't travel freely, but money could. It was its
realization and the writings in particular Socomante Marcos, along with
my talks in Spain to old anarchists, that encouraged me
to learn Spanish, which I pursued by spending months in
(03:22):
Spain and Venezuela and learning thanks to the patient to
the people around me. It was a new anarchism which
came from the periphery, not only a liberal corps, which
gave me my first serious politics. I traveled to Venezuela
to understand the revolution there. I did a PhD to
try and understand the revolution in Spain. It's all very
well understanding things, but I think it's much more important
(03:43):
to do things, and I tried to practice mutual aid
as much as I can. Since I got back from
the daddy En, I've loaded up a heavy backpack and
carried water into the desert and spent hours trying to
connect the friends I made in the jungle with services
along the way. In the face of so much cruelty,
it feels it's good to be doing something to help
a carrying the water is away. I can make a
material difference in a terrible situation. But in all my
(04:06):
time reporting, I've really never felt as disempowered and helpless
as I did in Last Blancas. Here at the first
official migrant reception center after Daddi Enne. The Panamanian government
registers migrants NGOs, offer a few services, and the US
funded process of deportation for migrants from Colombia, Cuba, Venezuela
(04:27):
and India begins. Some of those sent to India might
well be Nepalese who often travel on fake Indian passports.
The Siddle cluster of cheap tents, shipping container offices, un shelters,
and barbed wire offences is where the rubber meets a
road for the USA's border and migration policy, and it's
heartbreaking to witness as migrants were called up to the
(04:47):
security office to begin the deportation process. I tried to
narrate the scene into my voice recorder, but I struggled,
in part because their family members asked me questions, hoping
I can help.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yeah, planks on a side.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
But in a larger part this was also difficult because
I couldn't help, and I deeply wanted to. The best
I could offer was an arm around someone's shoulder, and
I promise to email anyone who I could think of
and ask what was going on.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
This guy's just sobbing.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, that's really tough. Some people's parents, some people's partners.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
And.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I'll explain exactly what was happening in a moment, But
first I want to explain how I got here. On
the day we left Maragante, we set off at the
same time some migrants who are making their own journey
to last Blankets is carrying only myself and my fixed
daddy and Aguero, so we're moving a lot faster than
the boats full of migrants on the way north. We
(06:00):
passed them, they smiled and waves we rode by. Many
of them had met me the day before. All of
them were ecstatic to have survived the daddy en and
be heading north. You know, it's a pretty busy stretch
river that's probably three or four Piagua was full of migrants.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Hello, they're kids shogging at me.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Going to taught them some English words yesterday and they're
shouting them back to me today.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Which is nice. We got it family from Panama. They
might be Indio people are something.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
They're littleville shocked to the whole scene. Here we are
passing another bit of Agua. Now they're all waving in
the it's got to be uncomfortable pack that don't see
into a bi Agua one, two, three, four or five, six, seven,
(07:01):
eighty nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirty sixteen people.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Once they boath arrived, they disembark in Last Blancas. The
next day I was there to meet them. We're just
walking into Las Blancas. It's hectic here, so it's a
new shop here, and outside the shop they've made like
a line of outlets to charge people. It's a dollar
an hour to charge your telephone. As we go in,
(07:28):
there are a row of like kind of sheds which
represent shops. And then further in every ngo has its
own little kind of shed. They're all covered in tarps.
They're like canvas and tarp tents. Actually here so see
UNISEEF I see oh I am.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Yeah, they have that sort of little tent office here.
I guess.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
See here as for example, has route information, psychological supports.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
They've spaced for women.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
WONISEF has some workshops for children. And then in the hours,
I guess, nice little chairs in there.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Yeah see. Then you can't take photographs in there, which
is good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
And then it's just a crowd of people coming out.
And there's also Mormon, little little Mormon situation.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
See me.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I guess thee o I am are supported by Church
of Jesus Christ on that today Saints and the.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Red Cross has got a shipping container.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I've been hoping last Black Gusts would be a better
scene than Bajugito, with more organized sleeping arrangements and hopefully
basic necessities like clean water, food and Wi Fi provided
by their numerous NGOs who work there. But if any
think it was worse in Bajo Jugito. In Bajuquito, migrants
were exhausted but also ecstatic to be at the jungle.
They you they'll be moving forward the next day, and
(09:02):
for a few bucks they can get anythink they needed
in the village. The locals told me that if kids
didn't have their money to eat, they fed them for free.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I didn't see this, but nobody's seen.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
That they're having a very hard time in any of
the dayta viceded the village, at least not for financial reasons.
Maggots can get as far as Bajo Jiguito on a
few hundred dollars in their t nasty They pay Columbian
guides a few hundred bucks to bring them across the
ocean from Necopie and to walk them from the border,
and they parried and barra Perraguero's twenty five bucks for
the ride up the river. But once they get to
(09:32):
last Blankerts. For a good number of migrants, their journey
grinds to a halt. Many of them told me they've
been stuck in the camp for weeks or even months
because they couldn't get that sixty dollars that they needed
to pay for their travel north. There's no Western Union
in the camp, and the only way to transfer money
is very local intermediary who charges between twenty and twenty
five percent of the sum being transferred as a fee.
(09:54):
In the morning, migrants arrive on their paraguas, just as
we did. I dropped down the boat ramp when I
saw them to help with their bags, and I'll go
about their journey from there. They formed two lines, one
for men and one for women and children. They have
their bag search and their passport checked. They're given a
welcome kit for the Red Cross with some basic necessities
toilet paper, a toothbrush, some soap, stuff like that, or
(10:19):
some of them get a kid. When the kids ran out,
it was long before the line of people did. By
the time the men were finished, they were given a
little more than a shrug and good wishes better Red
Cross volunteers and allowed to head off into the camp.
Within the camp, there are a few rows of small
casitas that are allocated to un accompanied children and families.
They're little more than four walls in a roof, but
(10:39):
they offer a bit of privacy for most migrants, though
there isn't space and they have to search for a
spot of empty ground in the crowded camp where they
can pitch. The same tents. They bought a necko Keley.
The WiFi, which a Red Cross usually provides, wasn't working
when I arrived, so I had to let people hot
spot off my phone all day. At least the promised
food really was free, but the migrant told me it
(11:00):
was far from good. Still, this is supposed to be
a temporary camp. People register here, get any medical attention
they need, and then move forward to Costa Rica. That's
the theory anyway. In practice, if you can't get the
sixty bucks, you need to move forward, or someone stole
it from me in the jungle, or you are forced
to walk to the camp because you didn't have twenty
five bucks for the boat and then someone rubbed you.
(11:22):
Then you're stuck.
Speaker 7 (11:27):
We have been here a month. You have people who've
been here a month and a half. I've been twenty
seven days here. Well, I thank god because we have
three meals a day, we have water, but it still
hurts the girls. The food and water always make me
sick with diarrhea. It bothers me. I vomit and the
heat is so desperate. But we have to hold on
(11:50):
because even though we don't have the resources, like we
don't have enough to pay for a ticket. We have
to hold on here a little longer. We don't have
any family members can give us support.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Either.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
What's keeping the migrants here is money, or rather a
lack of it. They need sixty bucks to leave. Buses
used to take five free passengers per bus, but under
Panama's new regime it seems like they don't. Instead, migrants
just gradually a mass in growing number of tents that
populate the grassy areas of LaaS blankets. They might try
and do some informal work. I saw one guy who
(12:23):
was cutting hair for a dollar a time, but I
couldn't really get a satisfactory response to what they're expected
to do. If they don't have the money and can't
get someone to send us seventy five dollars, they'd need
to cover their travel costs and the twenty five percent transfer.
Speaker 7 (12:35):
Feel if you're short ten dollars, they don't put you
on the bus or anything. So things are terrible here.
There should at least be support for migrants who at
least come with few resources. They don't have money or anything.
They can search your bag so they can see that
you're not lying that you don't have money, because nobody
(12:57):
wants to be stuck here. You have to move forward,
because nobody wants to be stuck here in Panama. The
idea is to move forward to get further ahead. We
brought our children to look for a future, not to
be locked up here in Panama, as if we've been imprisoned.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
The group even tried to leave on foot, hoping to
begin walking north, and so it's for better future and
a way to make money on their way. But they
were caught, they say, and returned to the camera.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
And they beat me hard. I gave myself up because
they had caught her, a grandmother with my other daughter.
I returned myself voluntarily, and they beat me up anyway.
And from there we've lost the desire to walk back there.
What can we do rights? They don't care about them.
We are human beings, but we don't have rights here
(13:48):
in Panama.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
If they do have the money, Margarets could take a
bus to the Costa Rican border. When the busts first arrived,
I tried to describe the scene as migrants rushed to
buy food, not only for this journey, but also for
their journey through Costallika, where food and other basics are
much more expensive. I'm here in La Lablancas when the
first buses have arrived.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
It's about noon.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
The first bus is going to be followed people who
had been waiting in line for hours already, so they're
kind of lining up by the bus.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
And then.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
The next bus is people seem to be kind of
rushing to get to them. They're rushing to my food.
I can just see this guy has like an entire
carrier bag full of pink Wave for biscuits and coke bottles,
that that's going to be his food for the next
eleven hours.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
I guess other guys.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Will see with bags of bread, rolls and stuff, and
they're the first people.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Are getting on the bus.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Now, these buses aren't entirely safe. In twenty twenty three,
forty two people died in a bus crash. This year,
seventeen were innted in a crash in August. Now, migration
offices ride in each bus with the migrants to check
on safety protocols and make sure they don't get off
anywhere else in the country, just like everywhere else on
their journey.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
People make money off the migrants.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
In Las Blancats, a bus costs sixty dollars ahead and
has fifty five passages three thousand, three hundred dollars a bus.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
More than a dozen buses.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Leave every day, and even half of a thousand or
so people who arrived us a transfer service to get
their bus fare. That's seven five hundred dollars in transfer
fees alone. Of course, not everyone in the community is
making thousands of dollars off the migrants. I interviewed local
shopkeeper who still sits just outside the camp gates, and
I asked him to explain his stock, which included the
(15:28):
oddly popular I backed the blue Thin blue.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Lion T shirt. So I'd seen several people across the
daddy and gap.
Speaker 8 (15:33):
In Okay, Mayamo your only fucking money.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
I asked him what was the most common shopping list
for migrants.
Speaker 8 (15:48):
See Cassie lay.
Speaker 9 (15:52):
Yes, almost all of them coming by sets for ten, fifteen,
twenty dollars. It depends there are many who don't have them.
I have children's sets for five dollars. I have sets
for five dollars that are pants and sweaters, which is
what they're looking for the most. Those that are socks
without underwear, backpacks for fifteen dollars. Because the backpack is
so worn out and they need it so much that
it carries their belongings. Look, it's not really everyone who
(16:15):
can buy. There are certain people who buy, of course,
if everyone bought, but there are very few can buy
something to leave here. Almost seventy percent leave dirty because
they don't have anywhere to get money, and the little
they can get often comes from selling their phones, their watch,
a cap, or their sneakers to be able to get
money to pay for their fare to keep going.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I asked him how the migration had impacted the community
with people making a lot of money, I asked, were
they mad about the trash and the pollution of the river.
These are legitimate concerns, even if they used in bad
faith against the migrants.
Speaker 8 (16:47):
No effect.
Speaker 9 (16:48):
Though nobody is perfect, but I can tell you one thing. Honestly,
the migrants suffer a lot to be able to carry
out this journey. And there are many times when I've
even had to give them clothes, some because they don't
have any. And well, when a father and family with
children comes, what can I say, Look, I have a family,
I have to do this.
Speaker 8 (17:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I asked him what he felt the solution was to
the suffering here the damage done both to people and planet.
Speaker 9 (17:12):
Hey, I say that oppressing people so that they don't
go through the dairyen is not the solution because if
you put it to the point, even if they don't
know an exact percentage, the immigrant gives the economy of
the United States a balance because the people born there.
Not to criticize them, people born there want a stable job,
(17:33):
and he doesn't want to feel like he's very very low. However,
the immigrant is there and he's picking fruit, going to
the fruit trees, going to the vegetable fields, going to
the garbage dumps, going picking up things that many Americans
who live there don't do, of course, and so they
need them to say that they don't go. They need
the support of the immigrant to be able to have
the balance that they have today.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Like a lot of Panamanians I met, he was broadly
in solidarity the migrants. I didn't really encounter anti migrants
sentiment at all in my time at Panama. In the
capital city, which locals just called Panama but we can
call Panama City, migrants are not really physically present, nor
are they present in conversation. I found the transition for
the jungle and the refugee camps back to the bustling
(18:18):
city pretty challenging a lot of ways. I find I'm
oddly comfortable amidst the chaos and trauma of a refugee camp.
It's a familiar environment for me, and I know how
to conduct myself. I feel safe with the migrants, and
I tend to find them very open and welcoming to me.
I can talk to anyone, and they can talk to me.
I bring toys for children and try to bring resources
(18:38):
for adults, and sometimes I bring my harmonica if I
being really cliche in a weird way. Refugee camps are
a little safe space for me, and even though I
know it's bad, I can console myself that I'm helping
a little or at least giving people some hope and
some information. That made me feel a bit better. But
in the city I found it hard, knowing that people
were in a terrible situation and that nobody here seemed
(18:59):
to care. I went for a running the jungle near
the city, trying to get some perspective and clear my head,
but I just ended up screaming and didn't considerate driver.
I was angry at them for nearly hitting me, but
I was just angry at everyone all over the US
and even here in Panama City for their indifference at
so much human suffering. The lack of concern about migrants
(20:14):
in Panama City made what I saw next at Last
Blankets even more surprising. An announcement of the loud speakers
called several Colombian passport holders to the migration office. At first,
it seemed like they were just going to a little
wooden shed with a couple of cene front officers in
it to return their documents. I had already noticed that
some migrants, and seemingly most of the African migrants, were
(20:34):
being called to a different shed to do biometric scans.
I wondered if this was part of the same process.
But shortly thereafter a truck rolled up and several of
the Colombians were loaded in. Apparently neither they nor their
partners knew what was going on. They're taking some of
the Columbian guys away to deport them. You can hear
a little kid crying for his dad.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Okay, listen, you sell a.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Jure taking his brother and his brother's wife, taking some
other lady's husband, some of little.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Kid's dad and making them sit on the floor. I
don't know why. Yeah, I don't know what they're going
to do.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Now.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
She's trying to.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Give her husband the money and a SIM card so
he can call her.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
You're gonna go get some more food.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Other margarets approached me to us if I knew, which
I didn't. The one lady who'd been there for weeks
told me that people who leave this way never come
back and they end up being deported, So we assume
that's what's happening here.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Yeah, this really sucks.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Now they're taking the deportation by. There's men crying.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Becau said.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Wives are on their women crying, their husbands are on
their kids are crying, their parents are on there, and
they've just done this crossing and now they're going to
send them back. By the time I got back to
the city, I was getting texts from migrants with photos
of them in handcuffs. More and more of them were
being deported, particularly the Colombians. One of them, texting me
(22:25):
after being returned to Columbia on a flight, gave the
following account of detention.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
They treated us very badly verbally and psychologically. We all
had to do our business in the same cell and
they threw food on the floor for us to eat
as we were all in handcuffs. They told us that
of Venezuelan had burned down the migrant detention center in
San Vincente and that we would all pay for it,
and that the Colombians didn't need to leave the country
because the president there said it was doing well and
(22:52):
there's plenty of work. None of that is true.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
The American facility in sambacent they was burned out, and
the people working there top it was a Venezuelan migrant
who did that.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
But all of that excuses any of this.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
We weren't able to access that facility as the people
who had detained there. I can't really consent meaningfully to
an interview. That's a fair enough for paction. But the
migrant who was deported also alleged that they received no
hearings or a chance to appeal their deportation. Instead, they
were detained for eight days, spent their last US dollars,
and were then kicked out of the country. They were
(23:25):
not detained or arrested upon reaching Columbia, which makes it
a little more difficult for me to believe the claim
that only people without standing warrants in Columbia were being deported.
These weren't the only allegations of mistreatment I heard. Margrants
came to me and whispered about the abuse of black
migrants who were forced to walk to Lahas Blancos because
they couldn't afford the boat ride. I should note that
it wasn't the migrants who had been robbed or abuse
(23:47):
that came to me, It was other migrants. There was
a group of guys had given a water filter too
while they were leaving to walk from Lahas Blancas. I
hadn't been able to join them, but when they got there,
we ran into each other again, and they came up
to meet to share their concerns for the black men
who had walked with them. In one instance, one migrant
told me he was robbed by what he called quote
(24:07):
police dressed as thieves. The deportations, which seemed to be
increasingly commonplace, are being funded by US taxpayer dollars. The
same day that Molino took office in July, Homeland Security
Secretary Alejandro Majorcas, himself the child of migrants.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Visited Panama.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Panama's a relatively young country and one which the US
occupied part of from much of the last century, but
despite a real struggle for independence, the Panamanian government didn't
seem concerned that the U. S Secretary of Homeland Security
was present at the inauguration of a president in a
country that decidedly not the U S homeland. The official
DHS readout of his trip notes that the US has
(24:45):
enjoyed a flourishing strategic relationship with Panama for over one
hundred years, which is certainly one way to sew up
decades of occupation, violence, and profit from the Panama Canal
and one of the more brutal dictatorships in the long
list of authoritarian regimes that the US preferred to com minister,
even socialist governments in the Western Hemisphere. They also announced
that the US government would quote help the Panamanian government
(25:06):
to remove foreign nationals who do not have a legal
basis to remain in Panama. Obviously, actually take this moment
to note that under the United Nations Refugee Convention, refugees
do have a legal right to travel.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Through a country on route to another. His Erica describing
that right.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
The refuge you canvention is complex, then, does afford a
lot of rights to people who have fled their countries
based on persecution. You know, you're supposed to be able
to pass through whichever country you want, go to, whichever
country you want, not be criminally prosecuted for crossing the
border between ports of entry and not be turned back
to a country or you face harm.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
The US allocated six million dollars for a six month
pilot program of repatriations. If the program meets the USA's goals,
they might consider expanding it to other countries along the
migrant route. According to reporting in routers, as of early October,
they've deported five hundred and thirty people to Columbia. That's
half of the people I saw arriving in a single
day in Bajojigito. Because Panama's government and Venezuela's government have
(26:04):
ceased relations after the election, Panama is now struggling to
deport Venezuelan's back to Venezuela, and it's actively searching for
a third country into which to deport them. But even
if the program resulted in one plane loaded day, which
it hasn't yet, that would be roughly ten percent of
the total DADDY in traffic, and far fewer planes are traveling.
What it will do like so many other DHS policies,
(26:26):
is play into the hands of smugglers. Already, new ocean
routes are being used which see migrants, many of whom
cannot swim, taking long journeys around Panama on ill equipped boats.
This doesn't help anyone apart from the DHS contractors and
staff equipping and training Panamanian personnel, and the human traffickers
making more and more money from migration. I also shopkeeper
(26:47):
his opinion on this.
Speaker 8 (26:53):
Look.
Speaker 9 (26:53):
I'll tell you I think that instead of giving them
a reward for deportation, they should give them support, a
lot of support, because it is a huge sacrifice to
leave your country where you were born, your children, your family,
leave it to be able to have a future, and
you go with your mentality that your future is the
United States that will give you an opportunity to get
ahead and give well being to your children. Now, ten
(27:17):
percent of those who go are going to destroy the
good name of the migrants, But what people really want
to do is help their family, and this balance unbalances
everything that is being done by good people. Because there
are many good people who want to get ahead. And
I think that the United States should support give support
to people who really want to fight and move forward.
(27:37):
As I just told you, they give a lot of
benefit they contribute to the country.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
After leaving Las Blancas, I felt pretty down about the
fact that people were just hitting a wall that they
couldn't overcome. Since then, I've stayed in touch with many
of them. For some a friend or family member was
able to send the money and they made it to
Costaly on the bus. From there, they crossed quickly into
Nicaragua and Guatemala before arriving in.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
The Mexican border city of Tapachula in the state of.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Chiapas and ironically not so very far from whether the
Zapatistas made their revolution thirty years ago. Once they crossed
the southern border of Mexico, migrants can begin their application
for asylum using the CBP one app that we've talked
about so much on the show before. They can use
it in Tabasco and Chiapas, the southern border states, and
then once again when they're north of Mexico City. To
(28:54):
recap very briefly, the app is terrible and almost every way,
including its inability to recognize blackfaces. It's limited functionality on
Android phones, which is a vast majority of devices used
by migrants. It's constant crashing, an eight to nine month
wait time for Sylum appointments. His Erico, explaining some of
those problems.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
You have to have a relatively new smartphone, you have
to have an address, all the people you're traveling with
have to be with you right, and you have to
first get through the initial kind of registration phase, which
doesn't always work.
Speaker 6 (29:27):
The program is very glitchy.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
You have to take a live photo, and you have
to wait essentially, so you know, it's kind of random too.
Some people will get an appointment within three months, but
I would say most people are waiting nine to twelve
At this point. You don't have any legal status in
Mexico while you're waiting, unless you can apply for some
other status in Mexico independently.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
That it is yet very poorly designed. It's also a
de facto a metering system on asylum.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Erico explaining that we've been litigating against the use of
CBP one for a few years now. My organization out
at the level and Haitian ViRGE Alliance, and the reason
why we are fighting against the required use of CBP
one is first because it is an illegal metering system.
So we've already litigated the fact that there is no
(30:17):
number limit on the amount of individuals who can seek
asylum at the US Mexico border, and Customs and Border
Protection legally does not have the right to turn people away,
and CBP one essentially allows them to do that. You know,
there were physical metering lists at ports of entry before
CBP one was implemented as essentially the only way to
(30:40):
access the US asylum system at ports of entry, and
now it's a digital metering list and it's very limited.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Recently, the Department of Homeland Security lost a court case
which forced them to release records in there with some
of the app plugs and data regarding CBP one. I'm
still in the phase of coming through that asking my friends,
you know more about technologies than I do. Eplain exactly
what the limitations with the app are, but it doesn't
really matter. DHS is well aware of the app's flaws,
and it doesn't really seem to see the most flaws
(31:08):
at all. The goal of the app is to make
it harder for people, even those with very legitimate asylum claims,
to obtain asylum in the USA. As we heard yesterday.
The CHNV program is no better a recently Reddit thread
of applicants who've been waiting nearly two years. What I
didn't mention yesterday is a parallel program for another group
of migrants, which I'll let Erica explain.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
I want to mention the fact that there is a
cap right.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
I think it's thirty thousand a month or something like
that for those four countries.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
But it's almost identical to.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
The Ukrainian United for a Ukraine program, which doesn't have
a cap right, so there's no limit to how many
Ukrainians can get the same benefit. And they are renewing
the humanitarian prole for Ukrainians, which I believe was just
announced almost within weeks of them announcing that they're not
renewing for the other four countries. So it's really a
(32:00):
very stark demonstration of how the US immigration system, even
when it's a relatively meter or benefit, is based on race,
is based on which country you're from.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
What this means is that in practice, the migrants I
spoke to face a long and dangerous way in Mexico
while others skip ahead. I've got nothing against the Ukrainians,
and I don't think many of them do either. I
tried to go to Ukraine and report, but the avisas
ended up taking so long that I missed the flights
that I'd booked. I have, however, a serious problem with
(32:33):
a Biden administration which left people who fought alongside its
own US troops to die in Afghanistan and turned away
migrants small over the world, but then opened its arms
to a country that just happened to have the majority
of its citizens be the same race as the president.
It's cruel and it's wrong, and it's barely ever even
mentioned in national media coverage. But that's not fortunate enough
(32:54):
to be Ukrainian. Here's what waiting in Mexico looks like.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
The incidence of crime director at migrants is horrifyingly high.
We had done an electronic survey a few years ago,
and this was during Title forty two, when people were
just being expelled to Mexico, and if I remember correctly,
it was like around twenty five to thirty percent of
people had been either raped.
Speaker 6 (33:20):
Sex traffic assaulted, kidnapped. I mean, the list goes on
and on.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
We've seen a lot of people lose their lives just
due to violence and the kidnapping rates are through the roof.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Almost everyone you've heard from in this series is now
stuck in Mexico. Some of them have been kidnapped, paid,
ransomed and released. Some of them have been sexually assaulted.
Many of them have been robbed. Some of them have,
after surviving one of the most deadly land migration routes
on Earth, been killed while waiting in Mexico for an
app to stop crashing on their phones. Over a week
(33:52):
since I got home, I've seen them go gradually more
desperate and afraid just to get to Mexico. Many of
them have spent several thousand dollars. Once they're in Tapatula,
they faced with the astronomical costs for the trip north,
often several thousand dollars more, and many of them, their
phones exhausted, have slept on the streets. Those didn't speak
Spanish struggle to find refuge. Those who did wanted to
(34:15):
move quickly north, but struggle to find the money here.
The Iranian migrants you heard earlier in the series explaining
what they'd already heard about CBP one.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
It's so tough because the some polices in their way,
they are two to our money that we came from Iran.
It was so difficult for us, and the resumed a way.
So Mexico, Mexico is so difficult for us, and something
is CBP one is not working for our for us,
(34:47):
for Iranian people, Yeah, I hope the people who are
in Mexico City for about three months, for three.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Months, yeah, CPP wanted.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (34:59):
Because of that, Iranian people go through the wall and yeah, yeah,
it's it's not our choice. We have to do this.
We don't want them, but it's we have to do this.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Yeah, it's good to explain that.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
According to a study conducted at the University of Texas,
wait times are as high as eight or nine months
on average now Mexico and out. It's on the thirty
first of August that it will provide security and food
for migrants who have an appointment to travel north from
the south of the country to the place where they
have a CVP one appointment. Margarets absolutely have been robbed
or kidnapped on their way to their appointment and missed
it as a result, But they're just as honorable in
(35:35):
the eight or nine months that they have to wait
for one. Margarets and Tapajula are at a very high
risk for kidnapping and are often held until their families
pay ransoms. But without money or an appointment, they have
little means of leaving the city. Some choose to travel
a little further north and then hop on a freight
train known as Labestia the Beast, an extraordinarily risky endeavor
(35:56):
that several of the people I spoke to for this
series have undertaken. The only place to ride on these
trains is on top of carriages, exposing migrants to freezing
temperatures in the desert night. Even on the train, they're
not safe from kidnapping. Like many migrants, the Iranian group
were well informed about domestic politics in the US, and
they said that when they made their journey north, they
(36:17):
wanted to be sure to avoid the states where local
law enforcement was likely to turn them over for deportation.
In reality, that could be any of the states, but
they're probably right that their life would be a little
easier on the West Coast.
Speaker 8 (36:29):
I heard it's so difficult and about three months, four months,
more than seven months, they will arrest us in the US.
I heard in Mississippi it takes us in Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that the California is a little little, little.
Speaker 10 (36:47):
Yeah earlier, Our money is very excuse me, shds money
in the world, and we have to pay a lot
of money for this way because.
Speaker 8 (37:00):
How one yeah, one dollar is sixteen thousand.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Some of course, which use to cross the border between
ports of entry as they become desperate to see their
families or afraid of remaining in Mexico. Since President Biden's
executive audio earlier this summer, doing this can result expedited
removal proceedings, and effectively, Biden's new ruling denies asylum by
default to anyone crossing the border when daily crossings sur
(37:28):
passed twenty five hundred. In fact, this is the continuation
of extremely punitive and cruel politics that have been in
place since he was finally forced to stop using Title
forty two, which, if you're not aware, is a public
health law used by the Trump administration and embraced by
the Biden administration as an asylum law. It has already
resulted in the deportations of people back to places where
they have extremely credible fears of harm and created a
(37:51):
system whereby migrants have no idea how they will be
treated on any given day. Again, it's play into the
hands of anyone seeking to smoke or migrants into the
country and detective well also harming innocent people coming to
this country to US for protection. He's Erica's short history
of Biden's asylent policy since last year.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
So when the Biden administration lifted Title forty two, they
essentially imposed what I call a transit then.
Speaker 6 (38:16):
So there's a couple of components to it.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
One is, if you do not enter the United States
out of port of entry with a CDP one appointment,
you are presumed ineligible for asylum unless you fall under
a few narrow exceptions which are not consistently applied. So
the exceptions are things like you were having a medical emergency,
you were running for your life, you know, you couldn't
(38:40):
access the app for some reason. But in practice those
exceptions are almost never applied at ports. There's been a
few kind of alternative programs run by shelters or local
governments where people with extreme medical vulnerabilities, for example, can
be let in without an appointment, but we don't know
(39:02):
whether the ban applies to them once they enter without
that appointment, right, So it's like I said, inconsistently applied exceptions.
If you enter between a port of entry, you're presumed
and eligible for asylum again unless you meet some narrow exceptions.
Speaker 6 (39:16):
And what that means is you can still.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
Apply for other types of protection in the United States.
So there's two principal types of protection. One it's called
withholding a removal, which is like asylum but with a
higher standard. And then the other is Convention against Torture,
which you just have to prove it's more likely than
not that your own government will torture you, which is
more extreme than persecution. But is it necessarily based on
(39:41):
a protected ground, So the torture gived you for any reason,
but it's a high hurdle. But the most important thing
is those two types of protection are not pased to
citizenship and they do not allow you to petition for
your family. So, for example, if you get asylum in
the US and then you want to ask for your
life and children to join you, there is an avenue
(40:02):
for that, and all of you can eventually become citizens.
Withholding a removal and Convention against Torture, you basically get
a work from it. If conditions in your country change,
they can deport you and you can never leave the
United States, and you can never reunify with your family,
and you could never become a citizen.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
This won't deter people. I speak to people every day
who cross the Daddy in We're kidnapped, robbed, and sometimes
raped on their way here. They're going through all of
that because we refuse to give people a dignified or
safe way to come here. They know it's a risk,
and they continue to come because they think it's the
only option. His powers from Cameroon and explaining.
Speaker 6 (40:39):
That it's deadly, how will I to you it's fifty
fifty alive on date, honestly speakause.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
But we had to take their rigs because I think
that was the.
Speaker 10 (40:49):
Only all from that we had.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
If you can't imagine taking those risks, it's likely because
you can't imagine the things these people are.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Leaving behind either.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
As a conflict reporter, I've been able to see a
small amount of what they're fleeing, war, death, poverty, state violence.
I don't know if i'd be brave or strong enough
to do the same, but I have a lot of
respect for people who can. Tomorrow we're going to talk
about the people who help them along the way and
what you can do to support them when the state works.
Speaker 11 (41:23):
It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
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You can now find sources for it could Happen Here
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It Could Happen Here News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.