December 3, 2025 • 40 mins
In the third episode of a four part series, James talks about ICE raids, Primrose’s time in detention, and the start of mass protest against Trump’s mass deportations.
Primrose’s Legal Aid Fundraiser: https://www.gofundme.com/f/immigration-lawyer-for-primrose
Sources:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/21/world/americas/trump-us-mexico-border.html
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/article299272524.html
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-orders/
http://www.toddmillerwriter.com/border-patrol-nation/
https://timzhernandez.com/all-they-will-call-you/
https://www.ice.gov/features/atd
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1225&num=0&edition=prelim
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
As we always do, we have included the sources for
this podcast in the show notes. I've also included a
link to Primroses legal aid fundraiser of people would like
to help out for Rose Miami and Primrose and the
(00:41):
dozens of other migrants I met at the jungle, the
goal was to get here. Some of them had friends
they wanted to stay with, but many did not. They
just wanted a chance, a chance to work and be
paid a fair wage, a chance for their kids to
have a dream and a future, a chance to sleep
safely at night. Once they got across that line, over
that wall, or across that river, they wanted to make
(01:03):
their case for asylum, to ask for help and someone
to keep them safe, to give them an opportunity to
build their lives again. But even for the very few
who made it, the risks weren't over. Within hours of
taking office, Trump had begun signing executive orders that would
make life for migrants on the way to the USA
and those already here even more difficult. To the cheers
(01:24):
of the crowd, he signed in order that kept TikTok online,
pardoned the people who stormed the Capitol on January sixth,
twenty twenty one, and attempted to rescind birthright citizenship from
the children of migrants. He ended CBP one and with
his sharpie ordered the building of mole walls and the
resulting death of more people who came here to ask
for help. Within days of Trump taking office, federal agents
(01:46):
from ICE, the DEA, the FBI, and other agencies had
begun a campaign if made for social media raids. In Colorado,
they raided apartment buildings, which have played a load bearing
role in right wing conspiracies about trender Ragua months before.
At universities, they grabbed young men and women off campus
for the crime for opposing genocide. People entering the country
(02:06):
were stopped and had the device's searched, not just for
evidence of crime, but also for evidence of mocking the
president or the vice president. Trump added various organized crime groups,
a list of foreign terrist organizations, and attempted to totally
ban asylum, including for the people fleeing those very organizations.
People who had waited a month for an appointment on
CBP one now had their appointment canceled. They were left
(02:28):
totally without hope, at risk, and with nowhere to go
for help. Trump used to border emergency declaration to justify
his proclamation and quickly followed up with more military deployments,
wall construction, and a huge increase in the funding for
state surveillance. People still crossed, but their numbers decreased if
many of them were quickly deported back to Mexico. Here's
Kurst in is it Lau promos his lawyer, explaining the
(02:51):
new system.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So there are no new asylum cases. In other words,
people who cross at the southern border are now detained,
only to be removed immediately basically or as soon as possible,
under what's called two twelve F authority. It's under the
Immigration and Nationality Act. Trump has used this authority, which
(03:16):
basically broadly says that if the President finds a certain
class of immigrants or the entry of immigrants would be
detrimental to the interests of the United States, they may,
by proclamation suspend all entry have said immigrants. So whereas
people used to get credible fear interviews or were parolled
(03:37):
into the United States to be allowed to fight an
asylum case, none of that is happening anymore, and people are,
if anything, only screened for what's called Convention against Torture
screenings to just determine, like, hey, are they going to
be tortured by their government or with the acquiescence of
their government if they're returned to their home country. But
even then they are not allowed to remain in the
(03:58):
United States or fight any relief in the United States.
That just means that they will be deported to a
third country.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
For people inside the USA, the situation wasn't much better.
First as a trickle and then as a torrent, we
started to see videos of masked, unidentified men jumping out
of on marked vehicles to grab people, many of whom
were migrants, and detain them. In most cases, these were
federal agents from ICE and other federal agencies like the FBI,
the ATF, and the DEA, whose offices were detailed to
(04:24):
support ICE. In an increasing number of cases, they were
people imitating ICE. For migrants, many of whom had fled
totalitarian regimes where people were disappeared by the state, they
were reminder of what they'd run away from. The place
they had come to be safe started to feel like
the place they had to leave because it wasn't safe.
In Primrose's case, things were a bit different. When Kifton
(04:46):
found a motion to appear remotely, she got an extremely
unusual response.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
In ruling on my WebEx motion, I was emailed the
order of the judge along with a notice that primos
should self deport. So judges are sending out these notices
with routine other orders in cases where the immigrant has
counsel is fighting their case. It's obvious they're fighting their case. Yeah,
(05:14):
So it's one of the things where you just feel
very strongly this administration's influence.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Are they obliged to do that or is that a
choice that the judges made.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
No, not at all. It's it's okay, not at all,
and in fact it's completely inappropriate. The immigration bar is
taking a different approach to it. Some are filing motions
to recuse, telling the judges, hey, you need to recuse yourself.
You're a non neutral judge. To send this out in
the middle of the case is absurd. It's a due
process violation. They're entitled to a neutral judge.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
See just one of the many areas where things are
not as they have been. The Trump administration has flouted
rules and even court orders. Migrants to a Salvador's megaprisms
that got a place where torture is routine and where
a few people have ever left. They attempted to bring
criminal charges against migrants to justify their actions, and eventually
ended up in a prisoner change with the Maduro regime.
(06:03):
At the same time, my daughter's government began offering quote
unquote humanitarian flights to Venezuelans and Mexico, and some even
took to navigating the Daian Gap southwards to return to Columbia,
where they thought they might have some chance at a
decent life. In the USA, a country with more guns
than people. Everyone seemed to be holding their breath or
worrying that we'd see an increase in lethal violence. But
(06:26):
after a few weeks, thankfully that hadn't happened. But more
and more, where ICE agents showed up, local people also
showed up. They called them are number of things, fascists, cowards, traitors,
and then people began to organize, following ICE agents around
and announcing their presence, identifying their hotels and making noise outside,
picking up neighbors kids, and getting their groceries so people
(06:48):
wouldn't need to expose themselves to the risk of arrest
if ICE agents were spotted people alerted their communities. It
is across the US. People began to form networks to
take care of their neighbors. Some of this came from
lifelong activists, but much of it did not. People even
began using apps normally used for suburban racism like nextdoor
and Ring to call out the presence of ICE. Raids
(07:09):
were reposed and ICE agents were shouted out across the country,
but they still kept going. It wasn't until June that
we saw the first mass protest. Everyone wondered if we
(07:32):
be in for another hot summer like twenty twenty. CBP
offices had been deployed to La to conduct a series
of loud and once again curated for Instagram braids. Border
patrols Eel Centro Sector Chief Patrol Agent Gregory Bavino became
the face of the operation even before Trump had taken office.
Just a day after Congress had certified the results of
the election, Baveno had sent sixty five agents six hours
(07:55):
north of the border to push the boundaries of what
people would accept in California, say, to a valley not
so far from Los Gatos Canyon, he led Operation Return
to Sender, accosting Latino farm workers at convenience stores and
on the way to work. Bavino claimed the operation was targeted,
but reporting from cow Matas showed CBP had no prior
records for seventy seven of the seventy eight people had arrested. Bavino,
(08:18):
who has bestowed the title of Premiere Sector on the
part of the border he oversees, has five agents on
a team dedicated to producing videos.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
He likes to.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Praise Eisenhower, whose operation WAG often flew migrants to El
Centro before they were sent back to Mexico. The plane
which crashed in Los Gato's Canyon was headed there. Bovino
has a long history of these rates, dating back to
at least twenty ten in Las Vegas, and he is
very much the face of the new border patrol approach.
While ICE numbers are growing, CBP still has several times
(08:50):
more offices, and indeed some reporting suggests that ICE offices
and some offices might be replaced with CBP personnel. Border
Patrol notionly operates within one hundred miles at the border,
an area which includes all US coastline and the entire
shore of the Great Lakes, and even then this one
hundred Miles is an interpretation and not a hard legal blog.
This remint covers two thirds of the population and gives
(09:11):
them a widely way to infringe on the Fourth Amendment.
This has been the case for decades since the Department
of Home Land Security was founded after nine to eleven,
but mass protests against CBP has been rare. We've seen
it on occasion. The lesson you'd think for an agency
with such a broad remit in a country that seemed
so proud of the first ten amendments to the Constitution.
In La though, people weren't having it. Following a series
(09:34):
of violent raids, Border Patrol agents hadn't been met with
protests across the city. They'd responded with tear gas, projectile
weapons and threats. They'd arrested Denis wuerta leader of the
Service Employees United International, one of the largest unions in
the country, as well as dozens of other Angelinos. They'd
shot tear gas out of moving vehicles and a naunched
projectiles into the faces of reporters and bystanders alike. Seeing this,
(09:57):
doing what I do, I got on a train to
Los Angeles, but within being southern California, it took like
five hours.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Are they throwing or shooting? Do you get hit?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
You're okay, I'm going to that tree on the right. Yeah.
After getting off the train in LA, and before I
met my friend Charles McBride to work of some coverage together,
I walked around el Verda Street, grabbed a coffee, and
spoke to some of the local folks. There were tags
(10:48):
all over the walls and windows of the buildings around
the train station, but that's always been how LA has
expressed itself. All I heard from people I met there
was support. One man expressed to me his an team
made protest very uncomfortable for him, but he was glad
to see people standing up. Obviously, crimes against property are
something that parts of Los Angeles take very seriously. It's
(11:09):
a spiritual home of conspicuous consumption. But in this instance,
it seemed everyone I've met either didn't care or was
so mad that they didn't care. From mid morning to
early the next day, LAPD, who are not supposed to
assist CBP, but who can enforce state law, chase angry
kids around their own city. Its skid row and downtown LA.
Tear gas flooded the streets, and so did young people
(11:31):
from across town in between the tear gas and pepperbulls,
and managed to talk to a few of them. Their
stories were similar. They were those kids whose better futures
had brought their parents here. They were citizens raised in
the USA to believe in the right to free speech
and assembly, something they were now using to make their
voices heard.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I mean, my family, they're susceptible to all the ice
rays and stuff like that, and you know, being a
citizen here, I feel like it's my duty to out
here and you know, speak out and know for those
who can.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It made me think of Primrose and Kimberly and the
future they might both have. I sincerely hope that one
day at Kimberly and every other kid I met the
jungle would feel brave enough to be out here and
despite everything, be strong enough to stand up against state violence.
Unbeknown to me, Primrose and Kim weren't that far away.
They had a check in with ICE at the DTLA
federal building that day, and as they rode by in
(12:27):
a bus past the protesting crowds, Kim said to her mom, look,
it's uncle James. Her mom, of course, told her it
couldn't have been, but she was right. It was after
nine months of only speaking on the phone, Kimberly somehow
recognized me this might be being wrapped up in a
helmet and a plate carrier. When they first arrived, they
(12:56):
went to stay with someone they knew in Texas. I
planned to go and visit them and accompany them to
their court hearing. At this point, I say, agents had
already begun snatching people in the corridors the courthouse itself
to the government withdrew their cases and placed them in
expedited removal proceedings, which meant mandatory detention. There's not much
any of us could do about this, but I didn't
want them to be alone. Then I got COVID and
(13:17):
couldn't go his curse in explaining how this process works.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
So Ina Section two thirty five applies to people who
entered within less than two years. Like you said, they
can be then subject to what's called expedited removal. That
means that they have to take a credible fear interview
and be detained, and that they only get to fight
a case if they pass their credible fear interview. They
do not qualify for an immigration judge bond so they
(13:42):
only get out if Ice lets them out, which of
course I is letting nobody out. So the administration wants
to have people detained under this authority, this two thirty
five authority, as much as possible, to have them have
to fight their case detained and either lose the will
to do so and or not be able to afford
an attorney, because the tanned cases move along a lot
(14:04):
quicker and are very costly as well for that reason.
So what they're doing is anybody who was here two
years or less but was parolled in so they're in
the regular immigration court proceedings. They got out there under
two forty proceedings, that's called so DHS attorneys in court
are terminating those proceedings. They're asking the Dodge to terminate
(14:24):
the two forty proceedings, so then that case is closed
and then they immediately restart a case under section two
thirty five.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Their hearing went relatively smoothly. Their lawyer, who is now
working for whatever Primrose could fundraise, was able to help
them make their case. They left with another hearing scheduled
soon after. They decided to move to la to stay
with another friend. After the housing situation in Texas fell through.
They were living in East LA when they had their
next ice check in.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah, I was living an appointment.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And you said they went back to get some documents
in them around.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, yeah, I went.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
I think that aunt a of eight two four pm.
At first they came and give me my papers. They said,
go to chat with which is close to where you stay.
Then came here in La downtown. So when I walk away,
I realized there was no other documents. Then I woke,
(15:22):
I go big. I said to Kim at let's go
big inside. Then I go to the reception. Then I
asked the lady and she was the rude to it first.
Then she took my documents, then said oh okay, let
me go and find it. Three hours four hours, not
coming big. Then she came and called me. I think
four pm. Then the ice officer is just telling me
(15:43):
I'm going to detainium. I said, oh why, I said,
we are going to explain more. We are going.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I said, oh.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Okay, like thousands of other migrants who are trying to
do as they're asked, was detained her check it along
with Kim. Previously, she'd be giving ice checkens in Riverside
despite living in East La. I'd helped her navigate the
four and a half hour bus route to get there
on time. I wondered, how on earth, someone who doesn't
have a friend here, or who doesn't speak English, she's
(16:14):
expected to do this. She went out of her way
to make sure she was there and she had her
documents in order, despite all of this, but she and
Kim believe were detained anyway, It's not hard for me
to see why people in La were mad.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Then they took me to Santana. We were just sitting.
Not even one ice officer come talk to me.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Nothing.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
I was just sitting. And the other thing, they just
took my phone. Same time this, I switched it off.
Then I said, can I tell even one of my
friends maybe they.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Are worried.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
And I said no, no, we are going to give
you a phone. Later on I said, okay. So in
Sanna they took us in a hotel to sleep. Then
the following day they took big us to sunder detention center.
Not even one officer. I was being asking the securities.
They said, we don't even know. We splained the whole
(17:12):
day sitting doing nothing. We were just sitting. Then they
took us. I think around the six PM take you
to Los Angeles then, when that's why I saw the
ICE officer. Then she explained to me, we are going
to detain you, are going to put you somewhere because
the rules are changing every day. I even ask you,
(17:35):
did I do something ru She said no.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I've heard this from a lot of migrants. The ICE
agents managing their non detained docket as opposed to those
enforcement removal or detention, seemed to be struggling to keep
up with the pace of the changes in rules. Many
of the migrants I'd heard from had decent relationships with
the officers to do their check ins, and they can't
understand why other officers working for the same organization would
detain them, even that they're doing exactly what they're asked
(18:02):
to do. They are doing things quote unquote the right way.
But that's not enough for an agency desperately driven by
quotas and the desire to purgenation of people who had
risked their lives to become Americans. Let's hear how this
felt for Primrose.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Then I said, do you have a lawyer? I said yes.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Then she said, okay, it's fine, So she gave me
another documentary to sign. Then I signed, like they are
going to detain me. Then I ask you for how long?
She said that I don't think you guys will you
are going and going to stay more than fourteen days,
maybe less than fourteen days. I said, okay. Then I
asked your phone to call a lawyer. She gave me
(18:44):
a phone. Then I conduct the lawyer. The lawyer the
phone was off. Then I tried to conduct one of
my friends. Then the answer. I said, Yo, we wanted
to go to the police to ask you because we
were worried because your phone were off and the ice officer,
the ice officer, they both I was saving a GPS,
(19:07):
so my GPS was off for the way phoning. Uh
the person way up to me in Texas looking for me.
Then he also replaced, I'm also looking for you. I
don't even know where she is. Yeah, So people they
were worried. Maybe I will someone could app you something
happened to me. Yeah, yeah, so you.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And another ice officer is also looking for you.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
Yeah, the other officer, we're looking for me. They were
even sending messages on their app. Yeah, yeah, asking where
are you charge your GPS? And the other ICE officer
was detaining me. Then I even explained to her. She said,
oh no, no, it's okay. Then she took the scissor.
Then she cut the GPS. She cut it off.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
They know.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
We spent I think one hour, it was around seven.
Then they said, okay, oh there someone k is coming
to take you and your daughter, so to take you
someway which is safe with your child. I ask away
those people they visited, we don't know, we don't know.
(20:17):
I said, all okay. Then they search me. They said,
did you want to take your big they's no, no,
it's fine. I can ask if someone because I know
I was leaving as key for the.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Apartment Primrose, like many people seeking asylum, had to wear
a GPS ankle tag part of ICE's Alternatives to Detention program.
There are various parts of the program, including facial recognition
check ins via a smartphone app, home visits, and the
Intensive Supervision Parents Program, which is administered by Behavioral Interventions
A Geogroups of Sidiary I SAP as it's known, includes
(20:52):
an app through which people can check it, as well
as the GPS monitors and smart watches which can monitor
GPS and do facial recognition. Very obviously, they're not being
used in a systematic way, as one branch of ICE
was detaining Primrose while another was using a GPS tag
to try and find her. All the GPS devices used
to altern to detention represent massive surveillance overreach, an invasion
(21:15):
of privacy, and a huge government dragnet of data they
can use to track down migrants and the people they're with.
Despite this, they're also better than detention, which is where
Primros ended up, but not directly.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
Maybe they're going to put me. I can't go with
the keys. Then they took my big Then okay, we're
going to put somewhere. After one hour, they took us
to Lax Airport. They put us in a hotel. It
was around the twelve, yeah, twelve three, and that time, indeed,
(21:51):
they said, okay, so when you can navy shower, then
you can navy saw me. I was in the shower
in the Kimberdis was already on the bed sleeping. Then
the lady came in said, make fast, we are going
to we want to go back to pick another person
where we came from.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Ah. Then awake I awake him.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
I was talking about she was crying she was like,
I want to sleep because she was leaving headache. Then
they said no, no, no, it's okay, let's go, you're
going to sleep.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Where we are going. We spent there one night, up
and down.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
We came back again to La Downtown to pick another
guy with his side, with his son. Then they took
us to San Diego airport. I think we arrived there.
I think it's five am to take the flight to
San Andreonio, Texas. Then after that and then the other
(22:54):
lady she was rude. The other one she was nice,
she was fine. The other one, if you ask her,
she was like, she was rude. Then I just keep quiet.
Then I think at the airport we spent three hours sitting.
Then ication flight at eight am to San Antonio and
they took us to delay immigration. They welcome us, nice everything. Yeah,
(23:21):
then they put us inside. But for me, I was
I was crying to be honesty, yeah, I was even crying,
like you know, the only pace and make me strong.
It came and it's wayte for here, like since our
(23:42):
last year, since last year, your life is something else.
I'm just moving from one place to another, moving from
one place to another.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
You know, she's a strong girl.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
But sometimes you can see when you see sitting down
starting crime, she would just remind you something.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
The Florida Settlement governed detention of children by immigration authorities.
It limits the time they can be held to twenty days.
It establishes minimum standards for their detention and treatment. It
was a lawsuit based on this Florida Settlement that eventually
ended the Biden era policy of outdoor attention. The settlement
is widely flouted, but it was the best hope from
(24:31):
Rose and Kimberly had. Kirstin their lawyer we heard from
earlier worked tirelessly to demand they be treated according to
their rights.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
And how was it?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
You caught me a few times in daily rate, like how.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Kim wasn't having a good time first week?
Speaker 5 (24:49):
It was hard even for both of us. Yeah, yeah,
even their food mere, I wasn't even. It was very
hard for both of us to know kids she was
like used to to.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Primrose called me a few times from detention. I pick
up the phone to a robot voice and the number
would identify itself on my phone as Federal detention or
something like that. First, obviously I was afraid, but I
had an idea of what it could be. Yet another
connection that began with a little piece of waterproof paper
in the jungle and was now nine months later, leading
to a phone call from a prison for families in Texas.
(25:27):
I'd pick up the phone and then I'd have to
press one or two to accept the call. I always
wondered what I was about to hear. I could tell
she was trying to put on a brave face, but
she sounded so small it was difficult, really hard to hear.
She said Kim wasn't eating the food, which I've often
heard is terrible. I spent hours trying to find out
how to put money on their commissary account so she
could get something a little better. Kised in foro on
(25:50):
and on to try and get them released. I remember
at one point hearing from Primrose locked up with her
daughter for the crime of asking his country for help
on the fourth of July. It'd be too cliche if
I made that up, But nothing this year already seems believable,
even a nice attention, which is a miserable place for anyone.
Primros and Came had an especially hard time, as most
(26:10):
of the mirgrants they were detained but spoke Spanish.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
And the way.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
The other thing is like those people they were, especially
their room.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
They put me all of them.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
They were Spanish and me, I don't understand the Spanish.
I even asked the ice officer, can you please maybe
because there's another lad you also two ladies I think Africans.
We were only four families, so we even asked them,
can you put us in one room so that we
can understand each other, even especially for the TV. You know,
(26:43):
kids their issues. So sometimes I even had a report
to one of the lads. She was very rude to us.
She came and speak something, so me and you came
with we don't even understand like what she said.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So I just saw people they're doing something.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Then letter she was like, hey, I came here and
I said this. Yeah, when you came here, you just
speak Spanish. You didn't even explain with English, and of
which may I don't understand English. So she just write
a report to a boss. So your boss came and
called me. Then I explained to you. Then she was like,
(27:28):
oh okay.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Then they called Yeah. She wanted to.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Say no, no, no, I even explained to English. Then
there's another woman inside my room. Then she spoke with Spanish.
I didn't even hear, but she was telling the officer, no, no, no,
this woman, she's lying. She just came and speaks Spanish, ye,
not English. So these people they were just sleeping. They
didn't even know what to do because she just only
spoke Spanish only.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I've heard this from lots of migrants. They end up
serving as translators for each other because the agency that
is founded better than most countries' militaries seemingly won't provide them. Often,
people who speak indigenous languages have to find a translator
into Spanish or Russian or whatever other language they have
a colonial relationship with. Other times, there's just nobody to
help them, and they're even more alone than afraid. Luckily,
(28:28):
Primrose wasn't alone. She had kim with her, and as
they always do, they looked out for each other. These
aren't things the child should have to do, certainly not
a child as young as Kimberly, But in the end
it was Kimberly who could help work out what was
going on.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Then the ice officer I started decrying, like then they
took me to psychologist. Then no, it's okay, I think
I even spent three days that side. They removed me
in their room, then they put me big so mallage
was leaning under standing Spanish. So sometimes you see olping
(29:05):
me or Mammy they said this, and that, they said
this and that. I even write it not to complain,
like when these people came, then we have to accommodate
all of us, because it's not like, oh, we are
all Spanish and the eye we don't understand Spanish, and.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
It's being overcrowded and underfed. Migrated ice facilities were often
incredibly bored. I've heard of some of them trying to
teach yoga or share stories, but for the most part,
there's so afraid and isolated that they are forced to
sit with their anxieties day after day. I can't imagine
what this is like for parents who have to try
and maintain their own mental health and take care of
their children.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
But to be honest, we were just sitting. So time
goes oh yeah, because I remember one day we went
to place, we went to the gym to play I
think soca with Kim. I just failed down, just so down.
They took me to hospital. I think I spent I
(30:05):
think three hours then I wake up.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:10):
Yeah, of course I think it's depression. Yeah, so they
put me in depression pills to get it out. Yeah,
because my bibi was high every time and every time
and different time. Yeah. But I asked my ICE officer
(30:34):
about my case. Then she just replied me, I'm just
waiting for ICE to close your case when we can
start for asylum.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
So I was just sitting doing nothing.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Despite what the detention was doing to her, Premiers remain
determined to keep fighting her case. Every Thursday, an ICE
officer would come by and she would be able to
ask about her case. She'd been looking forward to the
only point in her week when she might get some
good news or at least some news about what was
happening to her. Why, Sally, that's not how it went.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, there was.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
Ice officer was very old, to be honest, Everyone just
walk away without and the people they were crying, complaining.
Then it was like I went to him, straight to him.
I wanted to ask him a question. He said, Hey,
I don't have time. The only thing I can even
(31:29):
tell you, guys, if you're tired of staying here, you
can because they were putting papers for self deportation in
our rooms like if you want to anytime, you can
just sign. You put your A number, your phone number, everything,
then they can make you fine ticket here.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
In her lowest moments, Premier said she felt like giving up.
Maybe it wasn't worth it. She thought, if you would
do anything to get away from the hell of the
detention center, that's the goal of these places, to break people.
The kimberly reminded her what they'd come all this way for.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Because when I was in detention, there's a time I
was like, I'm going to sign any deportation from Oh,
she's cream, she said, No, people, they are going to
kill you.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
If you want to go big.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Oh it's fine, it's up to you. If you want
to go die, go not to me. You sign your paper,
not to my paper. You must sign yours, then you
can go. Don't sign my name. No, I do rather
stay a year because I know people, because there's a
lot of people happening in the a ice, especially in
my country. Also, so she still remember everything.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
The depression, hunger boarder and misery that characterizes ice detention.
It's not a bug, it's a feature. It's supposed to
force people into breaking into signing those papers. It's getting
sent back to whatever they came here to escape. However,
the tenasty that bought Primrose is far I hadn't left her,
and she made sure to let them know she was
not willingly go back.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Then I said, no me, I'm not going anyway because
my life is in danger. Then he said, I don't
care even if they kill you, I don't even care.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
You have to.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
Take a reform and sign if you're a tack. Then
I said, okay, at least tell me my my case,
because when they teach me, was like everyone was asking me,
where did they catch you? I explained. The other officer
was like, so wh detain you? I said, I don't
even know the name, but that uh ice officer, he
(33:40):
was very rude, said I don't care.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Do you think I care.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
I don't even care whether you go big to your cant,
whether they killed you, none of my business.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
I gave my family.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
Oh so people people they were they were like shouted him,
those spanishes, they were even crying, shouted him. He just
walk away and leave us. So people were just also
starting walking away.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Go around.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
We even the writing not reprove like a complain, but
no one even comment your pass and they did. They
just come and call me. They are going to listen me.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Kirsten had spent weeks calling, emailing, and demanding the Primrose
and Kimberly be treated according to their rights under the
Florida Settlement. I wasn't sure if it was a lost cause.
It was the only option we had, and I was
happy to Kimberly and like so many others in that
detention center, had someone to fight for her. In fact,
she had hundreds of people. People all across the country
had donated to a legal aid fund. Here in San Diego.
(34:40):
People put on shows and took collections to pay for
her legal fees. Listeners to this show dipped into their
pockets to support Primos and Kimberly. Thanks to them, she
had a chance to get out. Like many other legal
rights at Migrant's House, Flores was being widely ignored, and
it's likely that Trump have men will take a run
at removing it altogether soon, But for now, this one case,
(35:00):
it still applied. But even once I conceded that Primrose
and Kimberly had a right to be freed, they still
took their time doing it.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
They released me on the tenth Yeah, I remember you
called me the frond of.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I called Julia exactly before you were.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Going to get out that week, but they took longer
and longer. Yeah, the release felt like a victory, but
she still faced the same difficulty she had before. Primrose
could not legally work. She was still in la where
border patrol and the Baveno but conducting violent raids and
people accused of no crime other than crossing the border
between ports of entry. Because it was the summer, Kimberly
(35:37):
still hadn't resumed her education, so that was July and
igl were in August. Now, yeah, you said your work
permit still hasn't.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Come right, Yeah, they clear everything. I was supposed to
get to my week permit on June July, but they
clear everything, like I knew everything. They just clear everything's
all studying August.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah to November. Now there's still no permit. His case
in explaining in May of this year how this system works.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
You have a work permit clock, right, which is another
absurd thing for assiles that once they file their asylum application,
they have to wait one hundred and fifty days before
they can apply for a work permit. And of course
they're expected to be independently wealthy during those five months,
or you know, or star over. I don't know what
they're expected to do.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, rely on the generosity of others, like exactly.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
So if you do something like try to change venue
or a motion to continue, if you do something in
your case that the judge perceives as not moving the
case along and rather like kind of trying to stall
it or possibly pausing it or slow it down, the
judge will stop the work permit clock the days and
it's a whole thing. So Primroses was stopped because the
(37:00):
judge wanted her to get an attorney. So then usually
when the case is set for a final hearing, that
code adjournment code they call it. We have the access
to the codes and what stops the clock and what doesn't,
and it always restarts the clock because you moved your
case along because you're setting it for trial. It's you know,
obviously moving your case along. Hers was not restarted.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
That video is still on Primrose's mind as well, still
comes up when she goes to a new church or
meets new people. Even eleven months later. One of the
worst days of her life still follows her.
Speaker 5 (37:35):
And the visiting hoop Puss is me on my video
please uh. I don't know how to say, but the
comments I was reading it was really big and people
they just judge people. We thought, if they know where
they come from, Yeah, I can't control them, but.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Deep don't.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
I'm not okay. And do you see if it now
I'm struggling for my knee. Yeah, and the other people
they will love at me like yeah, but it's not funny.
And I wish if the person maybe she was supposed
to cover my face or to cover Kimbali's face.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
But I didn't want their time in La to entirely
be defined by their detention. I didn't want them to
think that everyone in this country doesn't want them here.
I never really expect the government to make people feel
welcome here. I think that's something we should do. These
people are joining our communities. They risk their lives to
kind of live here with us, and it's us who
should welcome them. We can't leave that to the whims
(38:46):
of the electoral college. We have to do it ourselves,
just like the people in Bajujito did.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
So.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I drove up to La Primrose and Kim had another
ice appointment, and I arranged to meet them after. I
freaked out little bit when I couldn't get through to them,
but eventually I did. The Big Guy's building has no
signal inside. It turns out their place in la Is
where I conducted the interview you heard. I took them
out for a manicure first, because it seemed like something
that would make them feel taken care of, and I
(39:11):
got Kimed some bubblesap because she wanted to try it.
Sitting in the little manicure shop, watching a Vietnamese lady
take great care over their nails felt like another glimpse
of the communities we aspire to build where people from
all over the world can come and be safe. By
this time, I hadn't heard from Noiby for months, and
I've started to realize I might not ever again. So
(39:32):
I decided I wasn't going to let Kimberly live so
close to Disneyland and not go. One of my colleagues
has family who worked there. We got Primrose and Kimberly
day passes. It felt really nice just to give them
a day to be a family and not to worry.
I didn't go with them and record I wanted them
to enjoy the day on their own, and by all
accounts they did. Primrose sent me fixtored to them smiling
outside various riots and exhibit, and I felt a little
(39:55):
bit better to have help make someone's American dream a
little less of a nightmare. Tomorrow, I want to talk
more about welcoming people in our communities and taking care
of them, because now more than ever, I think that's
what we have to do. It Could Happen Here is
a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can
now find sources for It Could Happen Here, listed directly
in episode descriptions.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Thanks for listening.
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
As we always do, we have included the sources for
this podcast in the show notes. I've also included a
link to Primroses legal aid fundraiser of people would like
to help out for Rose Miami and Primrose and the
(00:41):
dozens of other migrants I met at the jungle, the
goal was to get here. Some of them had friends
they wanted to stay with, but many did not. They
just wanted a chance, a chance to work and be
paid a fair wage, a chance for their kids to
have a dream and a future, a chance to sleep
safely at night. Once they got across that line, over
that wall, or across that river, they wanted to make
(01:03):
their case for asylum, to ask for help and someone
to keep them safe, to give them an opportunity to
build their lives again. But even for the very few
who made it, the risks weren't over. Within hours of
taking office, Trump had begun signing executive orders that would
make life for migrants on the way to the USA
and those already here even more difficult. To the cheers
(01:24):
of the crowd, he signed in order that kept TikTok online,
pardoned the people who stormed the Capitol on January sixth,
twenty twenty one, and attempted to rescind birthright citizenship from
the children of migrants. He ended CBP one and with
his sharpie ordered the building of mole walls and the
resulting death of more people who came here to ask
for help. Within days of Trump taking office, federal agents
(01:46):
from ICE, the DEA, the FBI, and other agencies had
begun a campaign if made for social media raids. In Colorado,
they raided apartment buildings, which have played a load bearing
role in right wing conspiracies about trender Ragua months before.
At universities, they grabbed young men and women off campus
for the crime for opposing genocide. People entering the country
(02:06):
were stopped and had the device's searched, not just for
evidence of crime, but also for evidence of mocking the
president or the vice president. Trump added various organized crime groups,
a list of foreign terrist organizations, and attempted to totally
ban asylum, including for the people fleeing those very organizations.
People who had waited a month for an appointment on
CBP one now had their appointment canceled. They were left
(02:28):
totally without hope, at risk, and with nowhere to go
for help. Trump used to border emergency declaration to justify
his proclamation and quickly followed up with more military deployments,
wall construction, and a huge increase in the funding for
state surveillance. People still crossed, but their numbers decreased if
many of them were quickly deported back to Mexico. Here's
Kurst in is it Lau promos his lawyer, explaining the
(02:51):
new system.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So there are no new asylum cases. In other words,
people who cross at the southern border are now detained,
only to be removed immediately basically or as soon as possible,
under what's called two twelve F authority. It's under the
Immigration and Nationality Act. Trump has used this authority, which
(03:16):
basically broadly says that if the President finds a certain
class of immigrants or the entry of immigrants would be
detrimental to the interests of the United States, they may,
by proclamation suspend all entry have said immigrants. So whereas
people used to get credible fear interviews or were parolled
(03:37):
into the United States to be allowed to fight an
asylum case, none of that is happening anymore, and people are,
if anything, only screened for what's called Convention against Torture
screenings to just determine, like, hey, are they going to
be tortured by their government or with the acquiescence of
their government if they're returned to their home country. But
even then they are not allowed to remain in the
(03:58):
United States or fight any relief in the United States.
That just means that they will be deported to a
third country.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
For people inside the USA, the situation wasn't much better.
First as a trickle and then as a torrent, we
started to see videos of masked, unidentified men jumping out
of on marked vehicles to grab people, many of whom
were migrants, and detain them. In most cases, these were
federal agents from ICE and other federal agencies like the FBI,
the ATF, and the DEA, whose offices were detailed to
(04:24):
support ICE. In an increasing number of cases, they were
people imitating ICE. For migrants, many of whom had fled
totalitarian regimes where people were disappeared by the state, they
were reminder of what they'd run away from. The place
they had come to be safe started to feel like
the place they had to leave because it wasn't safe.
In Primrose's case, things were a bit different. When Kifton
(04:46):
found a motion to appear remotely, she got an extremely
unusual response.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
In ruling on my WebEx motion, I was emailed the
order of the judge along with a notice that primos
should self deport. So judges are sending out these notices
with routine other orders in cases where the immigrant has
counsel is fighting their case. It's obvious they're fighting their case. Yeah,
(05:14):
So it's one of the things where you just feel
very strongly this administration's influence.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Are they obliged to do that or is that a
choice that the judges made.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
No, not at all. It's it's okay, not at all,
and in fact it's completely inappropriate. The immigration bar is
taking a different approach to it. Some are filing motions
to recuse, telling the judges, hey, you need to recuse yourself.
You're a non neutral judge. To send this out in
the middle of the case is absurd. It's a due
process violation. They're entitled to a neutral judge.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
See just one of the many areas where things are
not as they have been. The Trump administration has flouted
rules and even court orders. Migrants to a Salvador's megaprisms
that got a place where torture is routine and where
a few people have ever left. They attempted to bring
criminal charges against migrants to justify their actions, and eventually
ended up in a prisoner change with the Maduro regime.
(06:03):
At the same time, my daughter's government began offering quote
unquote humanitarian flights to Venezuelans and Mexico, and some even
took to navigating the Daian Gap southwards to return to Columbia,
where they thought they might have some chance at a
decent life. In the USA, a country with more guns
than people. Everyone seemed to be holding their breath or
worrying that we'd see an increase in lethal violence. But
(06:26):
after a few weeks, thankfully that hadn't happened. But more
and more, where ICE agents showed up, local people also
showed up. They called them are number of things, fascists, cowards, traitors,
and then people began to organize, following ICE agents around
and announcing their presence, identifying their hotels and making noise outside,
picking up neighbors kids, and getting their groceries so people
(06:48):
wouldn't need to expose themselves to the risk of arrest
if ICE agents were spotted people alerted their communities. It
is across the US. People began to form networks to
take care of their neighbors. Some of this came from
lifelong activists, but much of it did not. People even
began using apps normally used for suburban racism like nextdoor
and Ring to call out the presence of ICE. Raids
(07:09):
were reposed and ICE agents were shouted out across the country,
but they still kept going. It wasn't until June that
we saw the first mass protest. Everyone wondered if we
(07:32):
be in for another hot summer like twenty twenty. CBP
offices had been deployed to La to conduct a series
of loud and once again curated for Instagram braids. Border
patrols Eel Centro Sector Chief Patrol Agent Gregory Bavino became
the face of the operation even before Trump had taken office.
Just a day after Congress had certified the results of
the election, Baveno had sent sixty five agents six hours
(07:55):
north of the border to push the boundaries of what
people would accept in California, say, to a valley not
so far from Los Gatos Canyon, he led Operation Return
to Sender, accosting Latino farm workers at convenience stores and
on the way to work. Bavino claimed the operation was targeted,
but reporting from cow Matas showed CBP had no prior
records for seventy seven of the seventy eight people had arrested. Bavino,
(08:18):
who has bestowed the title of Premiere Sector on the
part of the border he oversees, has five agents on
a team dedicated to producing videos.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
He likes to.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Praise Eisenhower, whose operation WAG often flew migrants to El
Centro before they were sent back to Mexico. The plane
which crashed in Los Gato's Canyon was headed there. Bovino
has a long history of these rates, dating back to
at least twenty ten in Las Vegas, and he is
very much the face of the new border patrol approach.
While ICE numbers are growing, CBP still has several times
(08:50):
more offices, and indeed some reporting suggests that ICE offices
and some offices might be replaced with CBP personnel. Border
Patrol notionly operates within one hundred miles at the border,
an area which includes all US coastline and the entire
shore of the Great Lakes, and even then this one
hundred Miles is an interpretation and not a hard legal blog.
This remint covers two thirds of the population and gives
(09:11):
them a widely way to infringe on the Fourth Amendment.
This has been the case for decades since the Department
of Home Land Security was founded after nine to eleven,
but mass protests against CBP has been rare. We've seen
it on occasion. The lesson you'd think for an agency
with such a broad remit in a country that seemed
so proud of the first ten amendments to the Constitution.
In La though, people weren't having it. Following a series
(09:34):
of violent raids, Border Patrol agents hadn't been met with
protests across the city. They'd responded with tear gas, projectile
weapons and threats. They'd arrested Denis wuerta leader of the
Service Employees United International, one of the largest unions in
the country, as well as dozens of other Angelinos. They'd
shot tear gas out of moving vehicles and a naunched
projectiles into the faces of reporters and bystanders alike. Seeing this,
(09:57):
doing what I do, I got on a train to
Los Angeles, but within being southern California, it took like
five hours.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Are they throwing or shooting? Do you get hit?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
You're okay, I'm going to that tree on the right. Yeah.
After getting off the train in LA, and before I
met my friend Charles McBride to work of some coverage together,
I walked around el Verda Street, grabbed a coffee, and
spoke to some of the local folks. There were tags
(10:48):
all over the walls and windows of the buildings around
the train station, but that's always been how LA has
expressed itself. All I heard from people I met there
was support. One man expressed to me his an team
made protest very uncomfortable for him, but he was glad
to see people standing up. Obviously, crimes against property are
something that parts of Los Angeles take very seriously. It's
(11:09):
a spiritual home of conspicuous consumption. But in this instance,
it seemed everyone I've met either didn't care or was
so mad that they didn't care. From mid morning to
early the next day, LAPD, who are not supposed to
assist CBP, but who can enforce state law, chase angry
kids around their own city. Its skid row and downtown LA.
Tear gas flooded the streets, and so did young people
(11:31):
from across town in between the tear gas and pepperbulls,
and managed to talk to a few of them. Their
stories were similar. They were those kids whose better futures
had brought their parents here. They were citizens raised in
the USA to believe in the right to free speech
and assembly, something they were now using to make their
voices heard.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I mean, my family, they're susceptible to all the ice
rays and stuff like that, and you know, being a
citizen here, I feel like it's my duty to out
here and you know, speak out and know for those
who can.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It made me think of Primrose and Kimberly and the
future they might both have. I sincerely hope that one
day at Kimberly and every other kid I met the
jungle would feel brave enough to be out here and
despite everything, be strong enough to stand up against state violence.
Unbeknown to me, Primrose and Kim weren't that far away.
They had a check in with ICE at the DTLA
federal building that day, and as they rode by in
(12:27):
a bus past the protesting crowds, Kim said to her mom, look,
it's uncle James. Her mom, of course, told her it
couldn't have been, but she was right. It was after
nine months of only speaking on the phone, Kimberly somehow
recognized me this might be being wrapped up in a
helmet and a plate carrier. When they first arrived, they
(12:56):
went to stay with someone they knew in Texas. I
planned to go and visit them and accompany them to
their court hearing. At this point, I say, agents had
already begun snatching people in the corridors the courthouse itself
to the government withdrew their cases and placed them in
expedited removal proceedings, which meant mandatory detention. There's not much
any of us could do about this, but I didn't
want them to be alone. Then I got COVID and
(13:17):
couldn't go his curse in explaining how this process works.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
So Ina Section two thirty five applies to people who
entered within less than two years. Like you said, they
can be then subject to what's called expedited removal. That
means that they have to take a credible fear interview
and be detained, and that they only get to fight
a case if they pass their credible fear interview. They
do not qualify for an immigration judge bond so they
(13:42):
only get out if Ice lets them out, which of
course I is letting nobody out. So the administration wants
to have people detained under this authority, this two thirty
five authority, as much as possible, to have them have
to fight their case detained and either lose the will
to do so and or not be able to afford
an attorney, because the tanned cases move along a lot
(14:04):
quicker and are very costly as well for that reason.
So what they're doing is anybody who was here two
years or less but was parolled in so they're in
the regular immigration court proceedings. They got out there under
two forty proceedings, that's called so DHS attorneys in court
are terminating those proceedings. They're asking the Dodge to terminate
(14:24):
the two forty proceedings, so then that case is closed
and then they immediately restart a case under section two
thirty five.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Their hearing went relatively smoothly. Their lawyer, who is now
working for whatever Primrose could fundraise, was able to help
them make their case. They left with another hearing scheduled
soon after. They decided to move to la to stay
with another friend. After the housing situation in Texas fell through.
They were living in East LA when they had their
next ice check in.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah, I was living an appointment.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And you said they went back to get some documents
in them around.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, yeah, I went.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
I think that aunt a of eight two four pm.
At first they came and give me my papers. They said,
go to chat with which is close to where you stay.
Then came here in La downtown. So when I walk away,
I realized there was no other documents. Then I woke,
(15:22):
I go big. I said to Kim at let's go
big inside. Then I go to the reception. Then I
asked the lady and she was the rude to it first.
Then she took my documents, then said oh okay, let
me go and find it. Three hours four hours, not
coming big. Then she came and called me. I think
four pm. Then the ice officer is just telling me
(15:43):
I'm going to detainium. I said, oh why, I said,
we are going to explain more. We are going.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I said, oh.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Okay, like thousands of other migrants who are trying to
do as they're asked, was detained her check it along
with Kim. Previously, she'd be giving ice checkens in Riverside
despite living in East La. I'd helped her navigate the
four and a half hour bus route to get there
on time. I wondered, how on earth, someone who doesn't
have a friend here, or who doesn't speak English, she's
(16:14):
expected to do this. She went out of her way
to make sure she was there and she had her
documents in order, despite all of this, but she and
Kim believe were detained anyway, It's not hard for me
to see why people in La were mad.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Then they took me to Santana. We were just sitting.
Not even one ice officer come talk to me.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Nothing.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
I was just sitting. And the other thing, they just
took my phone. Same time this, I switched it off.
Then I said, can I tell even one of my
friends maybe they.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Are worried.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
And I said no, no, we are going to give
you a phone. Later on I said, okay. So in
Sanna they took us in a hotel to sleep. Then
the following day they took big us to sunder detention center.
Not even one officer. I was being asking the securities.
They said, we don't even know. We splained the whole
(17:12):
day sitting doing nothing. We were just sitting. Then they
took us. I think around the six PM take you
to Los Angeles then, when that's why I saw the
ICE officer. Then she explained to me, we are going
to detain you, are going to put you somewhere because
the rules are changing every day. I even ask you,
(17:35):
did I do something ru She said no.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I've heard this from a lot of migrants. The ICE
agents managing their non detained docket as opposed to those
enforcement removal or detention, seemed to be struggling to keep
up with the pace of the changes in rules. Many
of the migrants I'd heard from had decent relationships with
the officers to do their check ins, and they can't
understand why other officers working for the same organization would
detain them, even that they're doing exactly what they're asked
(18:02):
to do. They are doing things quote unquote the right way.
But that's not enough for an agency desperately driven by
quotas and the desire to purgenation of people who had
risked their lives to become Americans. Let's hear how this
felt for Primrose.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Then I said, do you have a lawyer? I said yes.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Then she said, okay, it's fine, So she gave me
another documentary to sign. Then I signed, like they are
going to detain me. Then I ask you for how long?
She said that I don't think you guys will you
are going and going to stay more than fourteen days,
maybe less than fourteen days. I said, okay. Then I
asked your phone to call a lawyer. She gave me
(18:44):
a phone. Then I conduct the lawyer. The lawyer the
phone was off. Then I tried to conduct one of
my friends. Then the answer. I said, Yo, we wanted
to go to the police to ask you because we
were worried because your phone were off and the ice officer,
the ice officer, they both I was saving a GPS,
(19:07):
so my GPS was off for the way phoning. Uh
the person way up to me in Texas looking for me.
Then he also replaced, I'm also looking for you. I
don't even know where she is. Yeah, So people they
were worried. Maybe I will someone could app you something
happened to me. Yeah, yeah, so you.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And another ice officer is also looking for you.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
Yeah, the other officer, we're looking for me. They were
even sending messages on their app. Yeah, yeah, asking where
are you charge your GPS? And the other ICE officer
was detaining me. Then I even explained to her. She said,
oh no, no, it's okay. Then she took the scissor.
Then she cut the GPS. She cut it off.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
They know.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
We spent I think one hour, it was around seven.
Then they said, okay, oh there someone k is coming
to take you and your daughter, so to take you
someway which is safe with your child. I ask away
those people they visited, we don't know, we don't know.
(20:17):
I said, all okay. Then they search me. They said,
did you want to take your big they's no, no,
it's fine. I can ask if someone because I know
I was leaving as key for the.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Apartment Primrose, like many people seeking asylum, had to wear
a GPS ankle tag part of ICE's Alternatives to Detention program.
There are various parts of the program, including facial recognition
check ins via a smartphone app, home visits, and the
Intensive Supervision Parents Program, which is administered by Behavioral Interventions
A Geogroups of Sidiary I SAP as it's known, includes
(20:52):
an app through which people can check it, as well
as the GPS monitors and smart watches which can monitor
GPS and do facial recognition. Very obviously, they're not being
used in a systematic way, as one branch of ICE
was detaining Primrose while another was using a GPS tag
to try and find her. All the GPS devices used
to altern to detention represent massive surveillance overreach, an invasion
(21:15):
of privacy, and a huge government dragnet of data they
can use to track down migrants and the people they're with.
Despite this, they're also better than detention, which is where
Primros ended up, but not directly.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
Maybe they're going to put me. I can't go with
the keys. Then they took my big Then okay, we're
going to put somewhere. After one hour, they took us
to Lax Airport. They put us in a hotel. It
was around the twelve, yeah, twelve three, and that time, indeed,
(21:51):
they said, okay, so when you can navy shower, then
you can navy saw me. I was in the shower
in the Kimberdis was already on the bed sleeping. Then
the lady came in said, make fast, we are going
to we want to go back to pick another person
where we came from.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Ah. Then awake I awake him.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
I was talking about she was crying she was like,
I want to sleep because she was leaving headache. Then
they said no, no, no, it's okay, let's go, you're
going to sleep.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Where we are going. We spent there one night, up
and down.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
We came back again to La Downtown to pick another
guy with his side, with his son. Then they took
us to San Diego airport. I think we arrived there.
I think it's five am to take the flight to
San Andreonio, Texas. Then after that and then the other
(22:54):
lady she was rude. The other one she was nice,
she was fine. The other one, if you ask her,
she was like, she was rude. Then I just keep quiet.
Then I think at the airport we spent three hours sitting.
Then ication flight at eight am to San Antonio and
they took us to delay immigration. They welcome us, nice everything. Yeah,
(23:21):
then they put us inside. But for me, I was
I was crying to be honesty, yeah, I was even crying,
like you know, the only pace and make me strong.
It came and it's wayte for here, like since our
(23:42):
last year, since last year, your life is something else.
I'm just moving from one place to another, moving from
one place to another.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
You know, she's a strong girl.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
But sometimes you can see when you see sitting down
starting crime, she would just remind you something.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
The Florida Settlement governed detention of children by immigration authorities.
It limits the time they can be held to twenty days.
It establishes minimum standards for their detention and treatment. It
was a lawsuit based on this Florida Settlement that eventually
ended the Biden era policy of outdoor attention. The settlement
is widely flouted, but it was the best hope from
(24:31):
Rose and Kimberly had. Kirstin their lawyer we heard from
earlier worked tirelessly to demand they be treated according to
their rights.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
And how was it?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
You caught me a few times in daily rate, like how.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Kim wasn't having a good time first week?
Speaker 5 (24:49):
It was hard even for both of us. Yeah, yeah,
even their food mere, I wasn't even. It was very
hard for both of us to know kids she was
like used to to.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Primrose called me a few times from detention. I pick
up the phone to a robot voice and the number
would identify itself on my phone as Federal detention or
something like that. First, obviously I was afraid, but I
had an idea of what it could be. Yet another
connection that began with a little piece of waterproof paper
in the jungle and was now nine months later, leading
to a phone call from a prison for families in Texas.
(25:27):
I'd pick up the phone and then I'd have to
press one or two to accept the call. I always
wondered what I was about to hear. I could tell
she was trying to put on a brave face, but
she sounded so small it was difficult, really hard to hear.
She said Kim wasn't eating the food, which I've often
heard is terrible. I spent hours trying to find out
how to put money on their commissary account so she
could get something a little better. Kised in foro on
(25:50):
and on to try and get them released. I remember
at one point hearing from Primrose locked up with her
daughter for the crime of asking his country for help
on the fourth of July. It'd be too cliche if
I made that up, But nothing this year already seems believable,
even a nice attention, which is a miserable place for anyone.
Primros and Came had an especially hard time, as most
(26:10):
of the mirgrants they were detained but spoke Spanish.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
And the way.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
The other thing is like those people they were, especially
their room.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
They put me all of them.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
They were Spanish and me, I don't understand the Spanish.
I even asked the ice officer, can you please maybe
because there's another lad you also two ladies I think Africans.
We were only four families, so we even asked them,
can you put us in one room so that we
can understand each other, even especially for the TV. You know,
(26:43):
kids their issues. So sometimes I even had a report
to one of the lads. She was very rude to us.
She came and speak something, so me and you came
with we don't even understand like what she said.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So I just saw people they're doing something.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Then letter she was like, hey, I came here and
I said this. Yeah, when you came here, you just
speak Spanish. You didn't even explain with English, and of
which may I don't understand English. So she just write
a report to a boss. So your boss came and
called me. Then I explained to you. Then she was like,
(27:28):
oh okay.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Then they called Yeah. She wanted to.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Say no, no, no, I even explained to English. Then
there's another woman inside my room. Then she spoke with Spanish.
I didn't even hear, but she was telling the officer, no, no, no,
this woman, she's lying. She just came and speaks Spanish, ye,
not English. So these people they were just sleeping. They
didn't even know what to do because she just only
spoke Spanish only.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I've heard this from lots of migrants. They end up
serving as translators for each other because the agency that
is founded better than most countries' militaries seemingly won't provide them. Often,
people who speak indigenous languages have to find a translator
into Spanish or Russian or whatever other language they have
a colonial relationship with. Other times, there's just nobody to
help them, and they're even more alone than afraid. Luckily,
(28:28):
Primrose wasn't alone. She had kim with her, and as
they always do, they looked out for each other. These
aren't things the child should have to do, certainly not
a child as young as Kimberly, But in the end
it was Kimberly who could help work out what was
going on.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Then the ice officer I started decrying, like then they
took me to psychologist. Then no, it's okay, I think
I even spent three days that side. They removed me
in their room, then they put me big so mallage
was leaning under standing Spanish. So sometimes you see olping
(29:05):
me or Mammy they said this, and that, they said
this and that. I even write it not to complain,
like when these people came, then we have to accommodate
all of us, because it's not like, oh, we are
all Spanish and the eye we don't understand Spanish, and.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
It's being overcrowded and underfed. Migrated ice facilities were often
incredibly bored. I've heard of some of them trying to
teach yoga or share stories, but for the most part,
there's so afraid and isolated that they are forced to
sit with their anxieties day after day. I can't imagine
what this is like for parents who have to try
and maintain their own mental health and take care of
their children.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
But to be honest, we were just sitting. So time
goes oh yeah, because I remember one day we went
to place, we went to the gym to play I
think soca with Kim. I just failed down, just so down.
They took me to hospital. I think I spent I
(30:05):
think three hours then I wake up.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:10):
Yeah, of course I think it's depression. Yeah, so they
put me in depression pills to get it out. Yeah,
because my bibi was high every time and every time
and different time. Yeah. But I asked my ICE officer
(30:34):
about my case. Then she just replied me, I'm just
waiting for ICE to close your case when we can
start for asylum.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
So I was just sitting doing nothing.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Despite what the detention was doing to her, Premiers remain
determined to keep fighting her case. Every Thursday, an ICE
officer would come by and she would be able to
ask about her case. She'd been looking forward to the
only point in her week when she might get some
good news or at least some news about what was
happening to her. Why, Sally, that's not how it went.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, there was.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
Ice officer was very old, to be honest, Everyone just
walk away without and the people they were crying, complaining.
Then it was like I went to him, straight to him.
I wanted to ask him a question. He said, Hey,
I don't have time. The only thing I can even
(31:29):
tell you, guys, if you're tired of staying here, you
can because they were putting papers for self deportation in
our rooms like if you want to anytime, you can
just sign. You put your A number, your phone number, everything,
then they can make you fine ticket here.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
In her lowest moments, Premier said she felt like giving up.
Maybe it wasn't worth it. She thought, if you would
do anything to get away from the hell of the
detention center, that's the goal of these places, to break people.
The kimberly reminded her what they'd come all this way for.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Because when I was in detention, there's a time I
was like, I'm going to sign any deportation from Oh,
she's cream, she said, No, people, they are going to
kill you.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
If you want to go big.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Oh it's fine, it's up to you. If you want
to go die, go not to me. You sign your paper,
not to my paper. You must sign yours, then you
can go. Don't sign my name. No, I do rather
stay a year because I know people, because there's a
lot of people happening in the a ice, especially in
my country. Also, so she still remember everything.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
The depression, hunger boarder and misery that characterizes ice detention.
It's not a bug, it's a feature. It's supposed to
force people into breaking into signing those papers. It's getting
sent back to whatever they came here to escape. However,
the tenasty that bought Primrose is far I hadn't left her,
and she made sure to let them know she was
not willingly go back.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Then I said, no me, I'm not going anyway because
my life is in danger. Then he said, I don't
care even if they kill you, I don't even care.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
You have to.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
Take a reform and sign if you're a tack. Then
I said, okay, at least tell me my my case,
because when they teach me, was like everyone was asking me,
where did they catch you? I explained. The other officer
was like, so wh detain you? I said, I don't
even know the name, but that uh ice officer, he
(33:40):
was very rude, said I don't care.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Do you think I care.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
I don't even care whether you go big to your cant,
whether they killed you, none of my business.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
I gave my family.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
Oh so people people they were they were like shouted him,
those spanishes, they were even crying, shouted him. He just
walk away and leave us. So people were just also
starting walking away.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Go around.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
We even the writing not reprove like a complain, but
no one even comment your pass and they did. They
just come and call me. They are going to listen me.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Kirsten had spent weeks calling, emailing, and demanding the Primrose
and Kimberly be treated according to their rights under the
Florida Settlement. I wasn't sure if it was a lost cause.
It was the only option we had, and I was
happy to Kimberly and like so many others in that
detention center, had someone to fight for her. In fact,
she had hundreds of people. People all across the country
had donated to a legal aid fund. Here in San Diego.
(34:40):
People put on shows and took collections to pay for
her legal fees. Listeners to this show dipped into their
pockets to support Primos and Kimberly. Thanks to them, she
had a chance to get out. Like many other legal
rights at Migrant's House, Flores was being widely ignored, and
it's likely that Trump have men will take a run
at removing it altogether soon, But for now, this one case,
(35:00):
it still applied. But even once I conceded that Primrose
and Kimberly had a right to be freed, they still
took their time doing it.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
They released me on the tenth Yeah, I remember you
called me the frond of.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I called Julia exactly before you were.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Going to get out that week, but they took longer
and longer. Yeah, the release felt like a victory, but
she still faced the same difficulty she had before. Primrose
could not legally work. She was still in la where
border patrol and the Baveno but conducting violent raids and
people accused of no crime other than crossing the border
between ports of entry. Because it was the summer, Kimberly
(35:37):
still hadn't resumed her education, so that was July and
igl were in August. Now, yeah, you said your work
permit still hasn't.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Come right, Yeah, they clear everything. I was supposed to
get to my week permit on June July, but they
clear everything, like I knew everything. They just clear everything's
all studying August.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah to November. Now there's still no permit. His case
in explaining in May of this year how this system works.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
You have a work permit clock, right, which is another
absurd thing for assiles that once they file their asylum application,
they have to wait one hundred and fifty days before
they can apply for a work permit. And of course
they're expected to be independently wealthy during those five months,
or you know, or star over. I don't know what
they're expected to do.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, rely on the generosity of others, like exactly.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
So if you do something like try to change venue
or a motion to continue, if you do something in
your case that the judge perceives as not moving the
case along and rather like kind of trying to stall
it or possibly pausing it or slow it down, the
judge will stop the work permit clock the days and
it's a whole thing. So Primroses was stopped because the
(37:00):
judge wanted her to get an attorney. So then usually
when the case is set for a final hearing, that
code adjournment code they call it. We have the access
to the codes and what stops the clock and what doesn't,
and it always restarts the clock because you moved your
case along because you're setting it for trial. It's you know,
obviously moving your case along. Hers was not restarted.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
That video is still on Primrose's mind as well, still
comes up when she goes to a new church or
meets new people. Even eleven months later. One of the
worst days of her life still follows her.
Speaker 5 (37:35):
And the visiting hoop Puss is me on my video
please uh. I don't know how to say, but the
comments I was reading it was really big and people
they just judge people. We thought, if they know where
they come from, Yeah, I can't control them, but.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Deep don't.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
I'm not okay. And do you see if it now
I'm struggling for my knee. Yeah, and the other people
they will love at me like yeah, but it's not funny.
And I wish if the person maybe she was supposed
to cover my face or to cover Kimbali's face.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
But I didn't want their time in La to entirely
be defined by their detention. I didn't want them to
think that everyone in this country doesn't want them here.
I never really expect the government to make people feel
welcome here. I think that's something we should do. These
people are joining our communities. They risk their lives to
kind of live here with us, and it's us who
should welcome them. We can't leave that to the whims
(38:46):
of the electoral college. We have to do it ourselves,
just like the people in Bajujito did.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
So.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I drove up to La Primrose and Kim had another
ice appointment, and I arranged to meet them after. I
freaked out little bit when I couldn't get through to them,
but eventually I did. The Big Guy's building has no
signal inside. It turns out their place in la Is
where I conducted the interview you heard. I took them
out for a manicure first, because it seemed like something
that would make them feel taken care of, and I
(39:11):
got Kimed some bubblesap because she wanted to try it.
Sitting in the little manicure shop, watching a Vietnamese lady
take great care over their nails felt like another glimpse
of the communities we aspire to build where people from
all over the world can come and be safe. By
this time, I hadn't heard from Noiby for months, and
I've started to realize I might not ever again. So
(39:32):
I decided I wasn't going to let Kimberly live so
close to Disneyland and not go. One of my colleagues
has family who worked there. We got Primrose and Kimberly
day passes. It felt really nice just to give them
a day to be a family and not to worry.
I didn't go with them and record I wanted them
to enjoy the day on their own, and by all
accounts they did. Primrose sent me fixtored to them smiling
outside various riots and exhibit, and I felt a little
(39:55):
bit better to have help make someone's American dream a
little less of a nightmare. Tomorrow, I want to talk
more about welcoming people in our communities and taking care
of them, because now more than ever, I think that's
what we have to do. It Could Happen Here is
a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can
now find sources for It Could Happen Here, listed directly
in episode descriptions.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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