September 16, 2025 • 38 mins
Bridget Todd talks with Garrison about what the expiration of Trump's emergency order means for Washington DC, how it was a cover for increased immigration enforcement, and why the lack of statehood makes DC more vulnerable than other cities.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Al Zone Media Gaire.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The last time that you and I spoke was about
twelve hours after Trump announced the takeover of DC's police force.
It had really just happened, so I didn't really have
a ton of clarity about how things were going to
be taking shape and what resistance or pushback would look like.
Now today that we're speaking Friday, September twelfth, it's been
a little over about thirty days since all of this
(00:29):
went down, and I feel like we're due for an
update from my hometown, the District of Columbia.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
What do you say?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Absolutely, we're at the deadline. So now Trump can no
longer do anything. The city's back. God, I wish you're
free once again.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh my God, from your lips to God's ears. So
I did want to set the stage a little bit
up top. You know, I'm a journalist, but I am
also an advocate for DC statehood first and foremost. I
feel like I need to make sure some thing is
super clear, which is that how entwined all of this
is to DC's lack of statehood. After the last time
(01:07):
that you and I spoke, there a listener said, oh,
why is she making this whole thing about statehood. How
would DC being a state change anything? How would two
more Democratic senators change anything? Why are you making it
about that? And I thought, oop, I did not do
a good enough job of making clear why the takeover
in DC could happen at all, and the ways that
DC's lack of statehood is at the heart of that issue.
(01:31):
This is just sort of the soup that I swim
in all day, every day, So I forget that's not
true for everybody. For some of you, this might be
a refresher, and you might know this already, But the
reason why Trump started all of this in DC is
because DC is not a state. You know, As president,
Trump has a lot more authority over DC than he
has over any other place in the country. So while
(01:52):
Trump talking about sending the National Guard into other cities is.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Awful, he wants to do it to Chicago's so bad,
so bad, but he doesn't have the ability to. And
he's really upset about that, so much so that he's
probably going to cancel a degree of the plans for
National Guard deployment to Chicago. Inst going to cooperate with
Louisiana because the governor is okay with working with Trump
on that in Louisiana.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yes, exactly exactly did you see this is like a
non secorder. But the tweet that he put out, like
the AI generated tweet that's they're gonna find out why
we call it's the Department of War. Then it was like, oh,
we were just deaf kidding and just yes, delete that tweet.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Now that was just a joke, which is into like downplay,
like the amount of federal resources currently in Chicago. ICE
in DHS have been very busy in Chicago, and I
believe Friday morning, the day that we recorded this, ICE
killed somebody in Chicago during an enforcement action. So this
isn't to say, you know, Chicago's freed from Trump's federal forces.
(02:52):
ICE is still operating in Chicago as they have been,
but at least the National Guard deployment like mass military
style occupation is unlikely in the near future.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yes, that is great context, and I think it also
illustrates why what's happening in DC is so unique and
could not happen anywhere else in the country. So while
Trump is talking about wanting to send the National Guard
to other cities, he does not have the broad authority
to take over local police forces. In those cities the
way that he did in DC. And even if he did,
(03:24):
let's say, exercise what authority he could have over local
police and other cities, say like in an emergency situation,
it still wouldn't be the attempt to take.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Over the police force like we saw in DC.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Like when this first happened, Tam Bondy was literally trying
to replace DC's chief of police briefly successfully until DC's
Attorney General, Brian Schwab sued. Right, and so yeah, Trump
does not have the authority to oust local leaders and
other cities and states. Even if Trump sent the National
Guard to Memphis, Memphis still has a mayor, Tennessee has
a governor, there's senators, congressional representation. Because DC is not
(04:00):
a state, Trump working with Congress could take over our city, elset,
our mayor, and our city council. He has been talking
about doing that as recently as this morning. I want
to play a quick clip. He does lie in this
clip because technically he doesn't have the authority. It has
to go through Congress. But you know, I don't see
our Congress really standing up to whatever Trump wants anytime soon.
(04:22):
And so if Congress were to provoke DC's home rule.
Then Trump would be able to appoint whoever he wanted
to run d C. So I want to play a
clip of him talking about this weirdly in Oppressor about
that Charlie Kirk murder.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Here's what he had to say.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Well, the mayor's asked us to say, you know, we
have a Democrat mayor. He was asked us today. And
DC's a little bit different because I could federalize it
if I want. You know, DC's a little bit of different.
So we have a lot of a lot. We have
actually more power in DC because it's you know, I
can change the mayor if I want, I can do
whatever I want. I haven't had to. We've had a
great relationship with the mayor. We've had a great relationship.
(04:59):
Everybody's happy, and the mayor was not in favor of it,
but first we forced and then she saw the results
and everyone's.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Going up them.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Thank you her. We have no crime anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Ugh, Okay, I gotta stop it because I can't even
I can't even listen to him bloviate on that.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
But again he's kind of lying here.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
But there is a reality where Trump single handedly is
in control of DC. So it would have to take
Congress overturning DC's home Rule, but I don't think that
would be terribly difficult for him to achieve. And if
that does happen, he is right that he could appoint
whoever he wanted to be in control of DC. And
(05:37):
so the GOP has already introduced legislation that would revoke
DC's home rule entirely, something that Trump says that he
wants to do. To be super clear, this would mean
that all of the little things that you rely on
and probably take for granted about your day to day
local life, your social services, your trash pick up, how
your streets are run, your public transport, Trump would be
(06:00):
in charge of literally all of that. For me, it's
important to me that people understand how bad of a
situation that would be.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, that would be unprecedented.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
So just to put a pin in that, even though
Trump is talking about setting the National Guard to other cities,
DC's lack of statehood really makes what's happening here unlike
any other place in the country. DC is uniquely vulnerable.
In addition to all of the racial equity and democracy
implications for statehood, the reality is everyday lives of more
(06:30):
than a half a million people who live here like
me are made more vulnerable by DC's lack of statehood.
So when I am like on my statehood soapbox, that
is why, because the lack of statehood in DC just
makes us very vulnerable to having somebody like Trump really
exercise an unprecedented amount of control that we will not
see anywhere else in the United States. So just wanted
(06:52):
to make that clear. Okay, So now I have some
updates about the situation. As you said, Garrison, the crime
Emergency in DC, which sort of kicked all of this off, has.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Come to an end. Free that's over. Mission accomplished.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
We did it, mission accomplished, So it.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Lasted thirty days and it's come to an end. However,
there is no guarantee that Trump couldn't just declare another one.
The optics of that would be a little weird because
he's been talking, as we just heard in that clip,
he's been talking about how crime is down to zero
in DC except for domestic violence, which everybody knows isn't
really a crime, right, Like, he made it very clear
(07:31):
that he feels like crime has gone to zero, So
will be pretty weird to then institute another crime emergency
in DC.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
He kind of got what he wanted to with the
mayor agreeing to cooperate with him someone hmmm exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So, to be super clear, even with the crime emergency
in DC ending that in no way means an end
to things like the National Guard in our streets or
checkpoints which have just been horrifying, and the surge that
we're seeing in federal law enforcement, because those are two
distant things. And in the last few weeks of this,
what's really become just abundantly clear is that this whole
(08:07):
thing was about immigration. Even after all the talk of
crime and DC, it became very clear that this is
less about crime and more about enforcing Trump's immigration agenda.
As you sort of alluded to early on, before she
really changed her tune about Tukes into the takeover, our mayor,
Muriel Bowser held a press conference where she said, well,
(08:29):
if Trump's goal was to deport migrants and bring an ice,
you know, he didn't have to take over MPD to
do that. He should have just outright said that's what
he wanted to do, instead of making it this whole
thing about crime. Don't ask her to repeat that sentiment. Now,
because I don't think that she would. She's really really
changed her tune, which we'll talk about.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
In a moment.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
And so one of the things that makes it complicated
is that when you're talking about immigration detention versus other
kinds of arrests, it just becomes a lot harder to
have transparency into what's going on. But the Associated Press
reported that dated from the federal operation analyzed by the
AP shows that more than forty percent of the arrests
made over the month long operation were related to immigration.
(09:09):
They spoke to Austin Rose, a managing attorney for the
AMICA Center for Immigrant Rights, who said the federal takeover
has been a cover to do federal immigration enforcement. It
became pretty clear early on that this was a major
campaign of immigration enforcement, and that's just it's really hard
to deny that this was just another increasing plank of
the president's agenda on immigration.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, and I think you can certainly look at the
anti crime narratives getting a lot of traction on the
right with that pretty gruesome murder in North Carolina last
week as well, and like, absolutely the crime angle is
part of the rhetorical strategy Trump is using. And yeah,
a right wing populist president doing a crime crackdown. Oh,
this is unheard of, this is unprecedented. No, like, of
(09:49):
course they're going to use that angle. But yeah, the
underdiscussed element of this is how much this has just
been a cover to do a rapid increase in the
number of immigration actions around DC. Well, like you said,
that was like forty percent, So still another sixty percent
of arrests is just affecting the other DC residents, and
a lot of that is tying to this national crime
(10:09):
wave narratives that these people are also pushing. I think
these things work together. They're not necessarily like oppositional analyzes
of what's going on. But the immigration angle has been
very under discussed in the DC occupation.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
I agree, it's hard to discuss because I think we
have to really have some honest conversations. It is true
that DC experienced a surge in violent crime in twenty
twenty three. That surge thankfully went down, But I think
that crime is just one of those issues where people
who other rise are invested in telling nuanced, thoughtful stories
(10:47):
about complex issues. I see a lot of that nuance
and thoughtfulness go right out the window when we're talking
about crime. And I think that we really let the
right dominate the conversation about crime in our cities and
in some ways hijack that conversation. And I do think
that dynamic is part and parcel to how we got here. Now,
(11:09):
I have a b in my bonnet about some of
the sloppy journalism, like local journalism, people who really should
know better about crime. You know, we had a wave
of businesses shut and they would say, oh, we're shutting
because of crime, and it's like, yeah, look, you actually
look and you're thinking, oh, well, this is a cashless business.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
What kind of crime were you experiencing?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, there's no way. Using crime as this excuse in
post COVID economic decline has been extremely convenient for a
lot of corporations. And yeah, I guess like the degree
to which we've seeded territory on that same way, you know,
we see a territory on like the border and immigration,
but specifically sitting territory on discussion of crime allowed operating
(11:50):
space for Trump to deploy this narrative, which then was
used to hurt a lot of immigrants exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
And in DC we saw much tighter coordination with immigration
officials with our local police force, especially at checkpoints where
police would work with ice even if someone was not
otherwise detained or in custody. I did an interview with
the Washington Posts Tayu Armis, who covers immigrant communities here
in DC, and he told me that this whole thing
was essentially an attack on the policies that make a
(12:20):
city like DC what is commonly thought of as a
sanctuary city. I don't love the phrase sanctuary city, but
you know what I mean, you know laws that do
not require police departments to coordinate with immigration officials.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Really that it was an attack.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
On those, Yeah, totally, Yeah, I mean, and I think
that it's important that we call that out for what
it is. And this is difficult for me personally, but
not get lost in debating what Trump is laying out
about crime, because when you understand that it's not really
about crime, then you don't have to do that debating, right,
And it's like, well, it's not really about crime, so
let's not waste time debating what we both can plainly
(12:56):
see this is not really about.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, yeah, because DC is just faking all crimes. Yes, anyway, right, bridget.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Oh gosh, don't even get me started gare.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And so something that Tayu told me in our interview
that I found very troubling is that, again, when someone
is detained because of a suspected immigration related issue, we
just have a lot less information and transparency than if
they were being arrested for another kind of crime. He
described it as a black box that is difficult to penetrate,
which is obviously heightened when you have masked agents pulling
(13:37):
people out of cars at checkpoints and doing things like
literally hitting delivery drivers with vehicles right like, it becomes
very difficult to really even understand what's going on, and
that's by design.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
It's hard to find them in the system because these
people often aren't even charged with their crime, remaining in
the country past. The explosion of a visa isn't a
crime exactly, So so these people are brained as quoe
uquote criminal migrants that often is factually incorrect, if factually
incorrect even matters anymore, which it increasingly does not, it seems.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, And I mean, as you said, we know that
immigrant communities are not committing more crime than the rest
of the population, and.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So estimates would show less actually exactly because they don't
want to get deported.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And you know, again, I feel myself getting pulled back
into Trump's he he gets me go like circling the
drain with this where it's like, well, if you really
cared about crime, you would want immigrant communities to feel
comfortable talking to believes with the understanding that they weren't
going to be deported if they reported a crime, or
if they witnessed a crime, or if they saw crime.
But again, it's not really about crime, so I don't
have to I don't have to get myself pulled into.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
That, no, because it's entirely racialized. That's like the big
common denominator here, even with the anti crime narrative and
the immigration stuff, is that it's all racialized violence.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yes, And I mean, I'm glad that you brought that up.
Just as a personal note. I live in Columbia Heights,
which is a heavily black and brown neighborhood, a very
thriving Latino population, and it really just has been awful.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I live on a very busy street that runs right
through the city and like checkpoints on either side of
my street.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And I was listening to.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I think it was a Kara Swisher podcast and She
also lives in DC, and she was saying, oh, well,
I haven't really noticed any big changes, and I'm thinking.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Kara, Yeah, yeah, I bet, I bet you aren't noticing
many changes.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, I bet you haven't noticed any changes. And yeah,
I mean I've lived in DC most of my whole life.
I've never seen checkpoints where people are physically dragged out
of cars and in this way. So I mean, if
you don't live in a neighborhood like this, you might
be able to get away with saying, oh, I haven't
seen any big changes, or nothing's really changed, or maybe
(15:45):
I just see the National Guard when I leave my house.
But in neighborhoods like mine, the change.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Is very real.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I'll put it that way. So you brought up the mayor,
which I did want to briefly touch on. I have
been called out on this very podcast for being too
sympathetic to our mayor, which is actually funny to me
because on my other podcast all we do is call
her out. But the point that I have tried to make,
and I think this is the nature of that of
that critique, is that I do think it is important
(16:14):
that people understand that our lack of statehood in DC
does put our mayor in a position where her authority
is just realistically a lot more limited than other elected officials.
But even in that situation with realistically limited authority, her
play here has been cozying up to Trump. And that
is one hundred percent a choice. That is not something
(16:34):
that other elected officials in DC have done.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
That is one hundred percent a choice.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And it's a choice in an attempt in some ways
to diffuse the situation to not have Trump escalate, to
not go into a even more like legally uncharted territory, right,
to not accelerate the conflict. And I think a lot
of people who are critiquing this move actually would be
very interested in this point, in accelerating this conflict, seeing
(17:01):
what Trump will actually do stress tests even more of
our democracy, and a lot of people are interested in
watching the results of that happen. And I can see
how someone like Bowser doesn't want to do that, But
that opens her up for a lot of critique. And
I'm interested in what you said about like other city officials,
that's not something I've heard as much about, is her
(17:23):
kind of cooperating with Trump compared to the stance of
other city officials.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I mean, look at DC's Attorney General Brian Schwab, who
has been out here suing the Trump administration somewhat successfully
and has been a much more obvious fighter for DC. Right,
so like, he is certainly not playing nice. He's like, oh,
we're gonna fight this in the courts. If you want
to try to take over our city, we will see.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
You in court.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I'm so curious what the conversations are like between Bowser
and Schwab, but it just reveals to me that capitulating
and cozying up. I'm not gonna say it's not a strategy,
but it's certainly a choice. And to your earlier there
are definitely people who say, hey, she's playing nice with Trump.
D C still has home rule, DC still has a mayor,
(18:08):
and the crime emergency has ended. Those are all good things,
and being a resident of DC, I will happily say
I don't want to see how far Trump will go
on this. I want this to end. I want you know,
I'm not someone who was like, yeah, like, let the
chips fall where they may. I want my trash picked up.
I want my you know, my neighbors kids to be
(18:29):
able to go to school all of that. I'm not.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I'm not that's understandable.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's the complex thing.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I do think that, you know, early on in this,
Bowser was talking about how crime in DC was down,
and then Trump said on social media, oh, Bowser better
get her story straight on the crime numbers or things
are gonna get worse, And days later she was taking
in a very different tune. She did a press conference
(18:55):
where she thanked the federal government. She did stop short
of thanking Trump specifically, but thanking the federal government for
helping DC with the crime issue. And I guess, as
somebody who's been following Bowser for as long as I have,
it wasn't terribly surprising in an episode I did of it.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Could happen here. I think back in January.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
We talked about how her stance with Trump this time
around was like concession after concession after concession, So it
wasn't surprising.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
This falls in line with that, I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Correct, And I do think that people need to understand
that in a lot of ways Bowser and I don't
mean this in the way that it's going to sound,
but like, I do think that there is alignment between
Bowser and Trump on a lot of issues, crime potentially
being one of them. Right, when we were talking about
how Trump wanted Bowser to dismantle encampments in DC, it
(19:45):
wasn't like Bowser as some friend to the homeless.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
No no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, like the specific encampment in question, she already had
plans to demolish, just later on on a slower timeline.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
There is a class alignment among people in the political
quote unquote elite. Right. You can look at Gavin Newsom's
extreme anti homeless policies and compare that to Trump's extreme
anti homeless policies, and yeah, they have class alignment on
that issue, even if Gavin might be against Trump on
some other issues, though he has his own fair share
(20:18):
of concessions to Trump.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Oh you said it, friend.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Also, I like that I'm on a first name basis
with Gavin.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
I know, gab.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Podcaster solidarity and as we've seen the past week, podcaster
solidarity most important thing. Ooh yes, oh yes.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Also also fellow, iHeart podcaster.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I believe for Gavin. Yeah, and yeah, hope he joins
the union.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Same, And I guess I should say to your point
about the complexities about you know, the way that Bowser,
our mayor is playing this. It's true that it's good
that the crime emergency has ended, that DC still has
home rule. We still have a mayor, we saw the
city council as of today. And even if you will say, well,
that's you know, the mayor CosIng up with Trump, like
(21:03):
you have that to thank that's why that's happening. Our
mayor is really making no friends with other black mayors
in cities like Chicago and Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I have to assume.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, when she does press conferences where she talks about
how having federal troops in DC has been good for
the city, how crime it's gone down, when you have
these other cities that are currently trying to fend off
federal takeovers from Trump. So even if her CosIng up
with Trump has led to d C specifically being able
to enjoy home rule for another day, at what cost
if it enables Trump's actions in other cities.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
You know, me putting on my skull mask as I
bring out my chessboarding the accelerationist collapse of DC and
how that affects a larger political situation in the United States. Yes,
how much of DC am I willing to sacrifice to
see how far Trump will go.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
It's complicated because obviously, as a DC resident, I want
to have a safe and peaceful existence for myself here
in DC. But it's not happening in a vacuum, and
so I also have to think about, you know, the
national implications for other cities. And you know, I don't
envy our mayor. I guess I don't envy many mayors. Oh.
(22:14):
I am firmly believe if you want to become the
mayor of a city like DC, Baltimore, Chicago, something has
to be wrong with you.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
And Bridget Todd has come out against Zorn Mamdani officially
it could happen here podcast No.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
No, no, I'm just saying I mean, yeah, I'll say it.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Who wants a job like that?
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Though?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
It sounds like aod nightmare.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I had a friend who was like vying to be
the head of comms for the Baltimore Police Department, and
I was like, Wow, you are a massacre.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
That's even a weirder, that's even weirder.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, that's like the I can't imagine to never know
peace and not get into heaven. He's probably listening and thinking, oh,
why should talking shit about me? And so it is complicated,
and I do think it's important as an As much
as I want DC to be a safe place where
(23:04):
I can walk outside and not see people getting dragged
out of cars and federal checkpoints and all of that,
we do need to think about the larger picture here.
And people that I've talked to with regards to the mayor,
they tell me that, oh, it seems like she is
just not interested in the like the polling of these decisions,
because the conversations that I am having people are not
happy with her. In the spaces I am in. The
(23:26):
conversation is like, how do we recall this mayor? Like,
even though we might have these sort of things that
you consider victories, DC enjoying home rules, still having a mayor,
a city council, all of that, people are really really
really not happy with our mayor. Yeah, so looking ahead
(23:52):
at what's coming up next. Even though the crime emergency
is ending, this whole thing is.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Very far from over.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
The fight for the self determination of DC as far
from over in ways that have in a lot of
ways nothing.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
To do with Trump.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
There are thirteen bills in the House aimed at directly
taking action at DC. Many of them are direct assaults
on DC's home rules. There are provisions that would make
it easier for Congress to overturn DC home rule. There
are provisions that lower the age of when you can
be tried as an adult for crimes from sixteen to fourteen.
There is a provision that would give Congress longer time
(24:29):
to review DC's laws. Right now, it's thirty days. They
would change it to sixty days. All of DC's laws
have to go through Congress. It is a nightmare, Like
it is a whole thing. The biggest of these bills
in the House right now is of course, wanting to
overturn DC's ability for district residents to elect our own
attorney general instead of having an attorney general appointed by Trump.
(24:52):
If that bill were to become law, it would mean
that our current attorney general, the person who I would argue,
has sort of emerged as the If there was a
single person that you could look at and be like, oh,
this person is trying to fight for DC's home rule
and authority, Brian Schwab, he would be fired immediately and
Trump would be able to replace him with whoever he chose.
(25:12):
Not somebody that district residents elected or voted for or
campaigned for, just whoever Trump wanted, and that term would
run concurrent with the.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
President of the United States.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
So obviously, you know, some of these pieces are not
overturning home rule entirely, but they are clearly attacks on
DC's ability to govern itself and the self determination of
folks here in the district.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Are you going to discuss what's going to happen with
the Safe and Beautiful Task Force? Oh no, but I
can has mean passed the expiration of the order, Bowser's
establishment of the task force to continue federal cooperation. Yes,
I guess it's like one of the most immediate, like
continuing aspects of this story. And it's like unclear how
much this heightened federal presence will last past the expiration
(25:59):
of the order.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
So in a.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Press conference, I have to say, Bowser was pretty tight
lipped when asked directly about all of that, and so
a lot of it sounds like wade and see, like
she really did not give clear answers. And so I
walked away from that presser being just as confused as
you probably are, just disconfused as listeners are. I do
think in part that speaks to the unprecedented nature of
(26:22):
the way that Trump is dealing with DC right now,
of like they might genuinely not know, but the fact
of the way that she has been so tight lipped.
I hate giving this answer, but I think it's a
wade and see kind of situation. Yeah, fair, Hi, this
is Future Bridget coming in on Monday night to say
that we actually got more clarity on the question of
whether or not police in DC would continue working with
(26:44):
federal immigration officials after DC's crime emergency ended. DC's Mayor
Muriel Bowser was still being pretty tight lipped about this
when Gary and I were speaking about it on Friday,
but on Monday, September fifteenth, it was reported that Bowser
had announced that d C's Police Department MPD would no
longer be assisting immigration officials with immigration enforcement the way
(27:06):
they had been during the crime emergency. Bowser said immigration
enforcement is not what MPD does, and with the end
of the emergency, it won't be what MPD does. Trump
did not like this, and on Monday, Trump renewed threats
to federalize DC's police again if the department does not
cooperate with ice saying, quote, under pressure from the radical
(27:29):
left Democrats, Mayor Muriel Bowser, who has presided over this violent,
criminal takeover of our capital for years, has informed the
federal government that the Metropolitan Police Department will no longer
cooperate with ICE in removing and relocating dangerous illegal aliens.
If I allowed this to happen, all caps crime would
come roaring back to the people and businesses of Washington,
(27:52):
d C. All caps, don't worry. I am with you
and won't allow this to happen. I'll call a national
emergency and federalized if necessary.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Three exclamation points.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
And so I guess one of the big questions that
I've been wrestling with is what does all of this
mean for the future of DC. There was a time
where it felt like lawmakers had DC's back, but it's
really become clear that the days of DC being able
to count on the Senate and Congress are over. I
did an interview with a long time journalist here in DC,
(28:26):
Marxy Graves, and he reminded me that DC has really
been the most reliable jurisdiction in the country there is
for Democrats. There's no other place that has given more
electoral votes for president to Democrats every single election.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
It's extremely consistent extreme.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I mean, have you seen that map where it's the
election for Reagan and it's a whole big splotch of
red and only I think Minnesota and DC are the
only blotch of blue. Like nobody backs Democrats like d
C backs Democrat every single time. California can't say that,
Massachusetts can't say that. And in return, the party has
(29:06):
essentially abandoned us. They circulated messaging nationally telling Democrats to
tread carefully about how to talk about what is clearly
an attempt at a fascist takeover of our city. DC
has given Democrats this unwavering support since we had the
ability to vote in presidential elections, which it hasn't been
that long since, only since the sixties, but still right like,
(29:28):
and this is how they do us. And we have
known for years that Republicans like Mike Lee and others
have had their eye on DC. They want to overturn
DC rules, overturn DC laws, even things that have nothing
to do with crime and public safety, things like abortion.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
It is so clearly about control.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
They have been eyeing control of DC for many, many,
many many years. And now we have this big, wide, open,
breezy window allowing them to do that.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Is DC spiritually Midwestern? Because like it's same question.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Tell me more about what you mean by.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
This, because like, in some ways, you know, it is
like a coastal, elite place and it's like the you know,
the heart of political power. But DC to me always
has kind of had Midwest vibes. I don't I don't
know how to express it any other way. Maybe it's
because so many people from the Midwest move to d
C to do politics work. But I'm sure people from
all over move to DC to do politics work. But
(30:26):
like DC and like Minneapolis feel like very similar cities
to me in some ways.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I have said this before.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
See that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, I have said this before, Like I think there
is something to this where And in that interview I
did with Mark C.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Graves, he kind of he kind of gets at it
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
But I do think that d C is the kind
of place where you can just sort of take for
granted that I will always live in this sort of
progressive city.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I will always sort of live in this city.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Like I think it's easy to take things like home
rule in DC for granted, and I think d s
the nature of d C is a little bit weird
that as kind of alluded to. It's a very transient city,
and so there are people living in DC who have
only known one Mayor Bowser because she's been mayor for
like ten years.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Right. They don't know Mayor Gray, they don't know Mayor Fenti.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
They don't know how kind of tenuous a lot of
what holds DC together actually is. And it can be
really easy when you're living in a city the historically
has enjoyed low unemployment, has been pretty moneyed, is pretty progressive.
The kinds of fights that we were having in DC
before all this started, they seem so quaint now, bike
(31:35):
lanes tipped minimum wage, like all of these. You know,
it is sort of like Minneapolis in a kind of way.
You're not You're not wrong.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Well, I'm glad. I'm glad my vibes meter is still
accurately attute.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yes, And I did want to spend a little bit
of time talking about the protests and pushback that we've seen,
because DC has not taken this quietly. There was a
massive protest in March that I will say, I'm a
little sad that it didn't get more national coverage. Weirdly,
it got a lot of international coverage, but not a
ton of national coverage, which is sort of part and
(32:08):
parcel for DC. So many national outlets only think about
DC when it comes to federal implications, and when it
comes to what's happening locally in our streets and at
Malcolm X Park and all of that, they're like, DC,
who we don't know her?
Speaker 3 (32:22):
So like that protest was quite moving.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
We also have local groups like Harriet's Wildest Dreams and
Free DC who are great resources.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Free DC a lot of their work has.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Been at the community level, leading things like cop watching trainings,
like training residents to film enforcement stops, which when you
consider what Tayu Armis told me from the Washington Post
about how these immigration detentions and arrests are often just
a black box. Like we've seen video where a resident
is being detained by immigration officials and they're speaking to
(32:55):
the person recording like please record this, please record this,
you know, and so I do think like things like
that are super important when you're dealing with this black
box dynamic of immigration detensions and arrests.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
We also have things like educating residents on their legal rights.
And this is like a weird saying in DC.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
DC has a ton of parks, actually more parks than
any other part of the country. Were consistently voted the
number one city in the country for parks, and so
because DC is just a wonky place, sometimes you don't
know if you're on federal versus city property. So you
can find yourself in a park that's just a tiny
(33:35):
little triangle of grass. Oh no, you're actually on federal property.
So if you get arrested there, you're actually in a
federal jurisdiction, even though you're miles from the White House
and you thought like, oh, I'm just hanging out in
a public park.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
So we have seen.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Local activist groups and organized in groups really try to
educate folks on their rights and some of those distinctions
of like, hey, if you commit a crime here, you're
technically on federal property and you should understand that. And
I wanted to you mention this because I do think
it's easier to think of resistance as this big, loud,
visible thing happening in the streets, and as moving and
(34:10):
powerful as that big protest was so far, I think
a lot of the powerful resistance has been community oriented.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It's not as exciting as you know, being out on
the streets necessarily, but it is no less important.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, the non flashy stuff often goes under recognized.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, And I will also say that folks might know
DC has its own style of music called go go,
which is sort of a city local artistic expression of
music here. And I've even seen groups like Harriots, Wildest
Dreams trying to organize joyful go go jams in public
spaces just to remind folks that joy is also part
(34:51):
of resistance, Just so that the only thing that we're
talking about is not defending our cities and being on
the defense, but also reconnecting to the things that make
our cities joyful and exciting and and and lovely places
to be. And I think it has been important to me,
when you're sick to death of reporting about all of this,
(35:12):
also getting to remember that.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Joy is part of it.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
That's like why we're doing this, so that we can
experience joy in our cities.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yes, I agree, we will allow a little bit of
joy I suppose in this day. Yeah, semi un joyful time.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, a tiny bit, I will speaking of joy I
wanted to end on one last teeny tiny little tidbit
about resistance, which is that when I when we were
talking last time, Gare, I told you I think this
was like the day that the takeover was announced, there
was that guy who threw a sandwich at the parag Yes, yes,
well they popped this dude on felony charges, but DC's
(35:51):
grand jury failed to indict, and now he's down to
a misdemeanor, so he pled not guilty I think just
a couple of days ago, to just a misdemeanor. So yeah,
I mean grand jury's they used to say, like, oh,
you could get.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
A grand jury, then buy a ham sandwich.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I guess not if it's thrown at a federal office,
or you can't not in DC.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
It's just like the only good piece of grand jury
news I have kind of ever heard in my life.
Whenever I hear news about a grand jury, it's always
like terrible, Like, oh no, that sounds awful. Yeah, this
is uh the first, the first based grand jury I've
ever seen.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yes, yes, I mean if you're listening in if you're
listening in DC and you're on a grand jury, you
know what to do.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Well, does Souths put it that way. But yeah, that's
all I have really.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I would just say, you know, if you happen to
be listening in a place that is not the district,
we really need your voice. You know, when stuff happens,
there's not really anybody I can call. We have a
congressional representative, Eleanor Holmes Norton, Ugh. She has been a
lifelong fighter for d C and d c's self determination
(36:59):
and civil rights. She is also i think the second
oldest person in Congress. And I'll just say it's showing
I think, you know, we don't really have a lot
of people who are fighting for us and being a
voice for us. And so yeah, stay checked in to
d C. Even if Trump moves to you know, deploy
(37:22):
national guards in other places, other kinds of takeovers. What's
happening in DC is unique. It cannot happen in any
other place in the country. And we're so often overlooked
and ignored. And so if there are bills moving through Congress,
call your Congress people and please advocate for the self
determination of DC residents, because we have no one to
(37:43):
advocate for on our behalf.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
So please be our voice.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Thank you for talking about DC once again, Bridget Where
can people find you online and your other shows?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
You can check me out on my podcast. There are
no girls on the Internet. On iHeartRadio, a co host
a podcast called Citycast DC about local happenings and politics
and news and DC. You can check that out. I'm
on Instagram at Bridget Marine DC. I'm on TikTok at
Bridget Marine DC, and I'm on YouTube. There are no
girls on the Internet. Yeah, that's right, Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Cool, I'm glad we figured that out, all right.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Noll I guess YouTube is is like, guess that's cool.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
I'm doing my best out there.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
So true. It could Happen Here is a production of
cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,
visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us
out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for it
Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
Al Zone Media Gaire.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The last time that you and I spoke was about
twelve hours after Trump announced the takeover of DC's police force.
It had really just happened, so I didn't really have
a ton of clarity about how things were going to
be taking shape and what resistance or pushback would look like.
Now today that we're speaking Friday, September twelfth, it's been
a little over about thirty days since all of this
(00:29):
went down, and I feel like we're due for an
update from my hometown, the District of Columbia.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
What do you say?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Absolutely, we're at the deadline. So now Trump can no
longer do anything. The city's back. God, I wish you're
free once again.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh my God, from your lips to God's ears. So
I did want to set the stage a little bit
up top. You know, I'm a journalist, but I am
also an advocate for DC statehood first and foremost. I
feel like I need to make sure some thing is
super clear, which is that how entwined all of this
is to DC's lack of statehood. After the last time
(01:07):
that you and I spoke, there a listener said, oh,
why is she making this whole thing about statehood. How
would DC being a state change anything? How would two
more Democratic senators change anything? Why are you making it
about that? And I thought, oop, I did not do
a good enough job of making clear why the takeover
in DC could happen at all, and the ways that
DC's lack of statehood is at the heart of that issue.
(01:31):
This is just sort of the soup that I swim
in all day, every day, So I forget that's not
true for everybody. For some of you, this might be
a refresher, and you might know this already, But the
reason why Trump started all of this in DC is
because DC is not a state. You know, As president,
Trump has a lot more authority over DC than he
has over any other place in the country. So while
(01:52):
Trump talking about sending the National Guard into other cities is.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Awful, he wants to do it to Chicago's so bad,
so bad, but he doesn't have the ability to. And
he's really upset about that, so much so that he's
probably going to cancel a degree of the plans for
National Guard deployment to Chicago. Inst going to cooperate with
Louisiana because the governor is okay with working with Trump
on that in Louisiana.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yes, exactly exactly did you see this is like a
non secorder. But the tweet that he put out, like
the AI generated tweet that's they're gonna find out why
we call it's the Department of War. Then it was like, oh,
we were just deaf kidding and just yes, delete that tweet.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Now that was just a joke, which is into like downplay,
like the amount of federal resources currently in Chicago. ICE
in DHS have been very busy in Chicago, and I
believe Friday morning, the day that we recorded this, ICE
killed somebody in Chicago during an enforcement action. So this
isn't to say, you know, Chicago's freed from Trump's federal forces.
(02:52):
ICE is still operating in Chicago as they have been,
but at least the National Guard deployment like mass military
style occupation is unlikely in the near future.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yes, that is great context, and I think it also
illustrates why what's happening in DC is so unique and
could not happen anywhere else in the country. So while
Trump is talking about wanting to send the National Guard
to other cities, he does not have the broad authority
to take over local police forces. In those cities the
way that he did in DC. And even if he did,
(03:24):
let's say, exercise what authority he could have over local
police and other cities, say like in an emergency situation,
it still wouldn't be the attempt to take.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Over the police force like we saw in DC.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Like when this first happened, Tam Bondy was literally trying
to replace DC's chief of police briefly successfully until DC's
Attorney General, Brian Schwab sued. Right, and so yeah, Trump
does not have the authority to oust local leaders and
other cities and states. Even if Trump sent the National
Guard to Memphis, Memphis still has a mayor, Tennessee has
a governor, there's senators, congressional representation. Because DC is not
(04:00):
a state, Trump working with Congress could take over our city, elset,
our mayor, and our city council. He has been talking
about doing that as recently as this morning. I want
to play a quick clip. He does lie in this
clip because technically he doesn't have the authority. It has
to go through Congress. But you know, I don't see
our Congress really standing up to whatever Trump wants anytime soon.
(04:22):
And so if Congress were to provoke DC's home rule.
Then Trump would be able to appoint whoever he wanted
to run d C. So I want to play a
clip of him talking about this weirdly in Oppressor about
that Charlie Kirk murder.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Here's what he had to say.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Well, the mayor's asked us to say, you know, we
have a Democrat mayor. He was asked us today. And
DC's a little bit different because I could federalize it
if I want. You know, DC's a little bit of different.
So we have a lot of a lot. We have
actually more power in DC because it's you know, I
can change the mayor if I want, I can do
whatever I want. I haven't had to. We've had a
great relationship with the mayor. We've had a great relationship.
(04:59):
Everybody's happy, and the mayor was not in favor of it,
but first we forced and then she saw the results
and everyone's.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Going up them.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Thank you her. We have no crime anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Ugh, Okay, I gotta stop it because I can't even
I can't even listen to him bloviate on that.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
But again he's kind of lying here.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
But there is a reality where Trump single handedly is
in control of DC. So it would have to take
Congress overturning DC's home Rule, but I don't think that
would be terribly difficult for him to achieve. And if
that does happen, he is right that he could appoint
whoever he wanted to be in control of DC. And
(05:37):
so the GOP has already introduced legislation that would revoke
DC's home rule entirely, something that Trump says that he
wants to do. To be super clear, this would mean
that all of the little things that you rely on
and probably take for granted about your day to day
local life, your social services, your trash pick up, how
your streets are run, your public transport, Trump would be
(06:00):
in charge of literally all of that. For me, it's
important to me that people understand how bad of a
situation that would be.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, that would be unprecedented.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
So just to put a pin in that, even though
Trump is talking about setting the National Guard to other cities,
DC's lack of statehood really makes what's happening here unlike
any other place in the country. DC is uniquely vulnerable.
In addition to all of the racial equity and democracy
implications for statehood, the reality is everyday lives of more
(06:30):
than a half a million people who live here like
me are made more vulnerable by DC's lack of statehood.
So when I am like on my statehood soapbox, that
is why, because the lack of statehood in DC just
makes us very vulnerable to having somebody like Trump really
exercise an unprecedented amount of control that we will not
see anywhere else in the United States. So just wanted
(06:52):
to make that clear. Okay, So now I have some
updates about the situation. As you said, Garrison, the crime
Emergency in DC, which sort of kicked all of this off, has.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Come to an end. Free that's over. Mission accomplished.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
We did it, mission accomplished, So it.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Lasted thirty days and it's come to an end. However,
there is no guarantee that Trump couldn't just declare another one.
The optics of that would be a little weird because
he's been talking, as we just heard in that clip,
he's been talking about how crime is down to zero
in DC except for domestic violence, which everybody knows isn't
really a crime, right, Like, he made it very clear
(07:31):
that he feels like crime has gone to zero, So
will be pretty weird to then institute another crime emergency
in DC.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
He kind of got what he wanted to with the
mayor agreeing to cooperate with him someone hmmm exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So, to be super clear, even with the crime emergency
in DC ending that in no way means an end
to things like the National Guard in our streets or
checkpoints which have just been horrifying, and the surge that
we're seeing in federal law enforcement, because those are two
distant things. And in the last few weeks of this,
what's really become just abundantly clear is that this whole
(08:07):
thing was about immigration. Even after all the talk of
crime and DC, it became very clear that this is
less about crime and more about enforcing Trump's immigration agenda.
As you sort of alluded to early on, before she
really changed her tune about Tukes into the takeover, our mayor,
Muriel Bowser held a press conference where she said, well,
(08:29):
if Trump's goal was to deport migrants and bring an ice,
you know, he didn't have to take over MPD to
do that. He should have just outright said that's what
he wanted to do, instead of making it this whole
thing about crime. Don't ask her to repeat that sentiment. Now,
because I don't think that she would. She's really really
changed her tune, which we'll talk about.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
In a moment.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
And so one of the things that makes it complicated
is that when you're talking about immigration detention versus other
kinds of arrests, it just becomes a lot harder to
have transparency into what's going on. But the Associated Press
reported that dated from the federal operation analyzed by the
AP shows that more than forty percent of the arrests
made over the month long operation were related to immigration.
(09:09):
They spoke to Austin Rose, a managing attorney for the
AMICA Center for Immigrant Rights, who said the federal takeover
has been a cover to do federal immigration enforcement. It
became pretty clear early on that this was a major
campaign of immigration enforcement, and that's just it's really hard
to deny that this was just another increasing plank of
the president's agenda on immigration.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, and I think you can certainly look at the
anti crime narratives getting a lot of traction on the
right with that pretty gruesome murder in North Carolina last
week as well, and like, absolutely the crime angle is
part of the rhetorical strategy Trump is using. And yeah,
a right wing populist president doing a crime crackdown. Oh,
this is unheard of, this is unprecedented. No, like, of
(09:49):
course they're going to use that angle. But yeah, the
underdiscussed element of this is how much this has just
been a cover to do a rapid increase in the
number of immigration actions around DC. Well, like you said,
that was like forty percent, So still another sixty percent
of arrests is just affecting the other DC residents, and
a lot of that is tying to this national crime
(10:09):
wave narratives that these people are also pushing. I think
these things work together. They're not necessarily like oppositional analyzes
of what's going on. But the immigration angle has been
very under discussed in the DC occupation.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
I agree, it's hard to discuss because I think we
have to really have some honest conversations. It is true
that DC experienced a surge in violent crime in twenty
twenty three. That surge thankfully went down, But I think
that crime is just one of those issues where people
who other rise are invested in telling nuanced, thoughtful stories
(10:47):
about complex issues. I see a lot of that nuance
and thoughtfulness go right out the window when we're talking
about crime. And I think that we really let the
right dominate the conversation about crime in our cities and
in some ways hijack that conversation. And I do think
that dynamic is part and parcel to how we got here. Now,
(11:09):
I have a b in my bonnet about some of
the sloppy journalism, like local journalism, people who really should
know better about crime. You know, we had a wave
of businesses shut and they would say, oh, we're shutting
because of crime, and it's like, yeah, look, you actually
look and you're thinking, oh, well, this is a cashless business.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
What kind of crime were you experiencing?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, there's no way. Using crime as this excuse in
post COVID economic decline has been extremely convenient for a
lot of corporations. And yeah, I guess like the degree
to which we've seeded territory on that same way, you know,
we see a territory on like the border and immigration,
but specifically sitting territory on discussion of crime allowed operating
(11:50):
space for Trump to deploy this narrative, which then was
used to hurt a lot of immigrants exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
And in DC we saw much tighter coordination with immigration
officials with our local police force, especially at checkpoints where
police would work with ice even if someone was not
otherwise detained or in custody. I did an interview with
the Washington Posts Tayu Armis, who covers immigrant communities here
in DC, and he told me that this whole thing
was essentially an attack on the policies that make a
(12:20):
city like DC what is commonly thought of as a
sanctuary city. I don't love the phrase sanctuary city, but
you know what I mean, you know laws that do
not require police departments to coordinate with immigration officials.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Really that it was an attack.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
On those, Yeah, totally, Yeah, I mean, and I think
that it's important that we call that out for what
it is. And this is difficult for me personally, but
not get lost in debating what Trump is laying out
about crime, because when you understand that it's not really
about crime, then you don't have to do that debating, right,
And it's like, well, it's not really about crime, so
let's not waste time debating what we both can plainly
(12:56):
see this is not really about.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, yeah, because DC is just faking all crimes. Yes, anyway, right, bridget.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Oh gosh, don't even get me started gare.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And so something that Tayu told me in our interview
that I found very troubling is that, again, when someone
is detained because of a suspected immigration related issue, we
just have a lot less information and transparency than if
they were being arrested for another kind of crime. He
described it as a black box that is difficult to penetrate,
which is obviously heightened when you have masked agents pulling
(13:37):
people out of cars at checkpoints and doing things like
literally hitting delivery drivers with vehicles right like, it becomes
very difficult to really even understand what's going on, and
that's by design.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
It's hard to find them in the system because these
people often aren't even charged with their crime, remaining in
the country past. The explosion of a visa isn't a
crime exactly, So so these people are brained as quoe
uquote criminal migrants that often is factually incorrect, if factually
incorrect even matters anymore, which it increasingly does not, it seems.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, And I mean, as you said, we know that
immigrant communities are not committing more crime than the rest
of the population, and.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So estimates would show less actually exactly because they don't
want to get deported.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And you know, again, I feel myself getting pulled back
into Trump's he he gets me go like circling the
drain with this where it's like, well, if you really
cared about crime, you would want immigrant communities to feel
comfortable talking to believes with the understanding that they weren't
going to be deported if they reported a crime, or
if they witnessed a crime, or if they saw crime.
But again, it's not really about crime, so I don't
have to I don't have to get myself pulled into.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
That, no, because it's entirely racialized. That's like the big
common denominator here, even with the anti crime narrative and
the immigration stuff, is that it's all racialized violence.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yes, And I mean, I'm glad that you brought that up.
Just as a personal note. I live in Columbia Heights,
which is a heavily black and brown neighborhood, a very
thriving Latino population, and it really just has been awful.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I live on a very busy street that runs right
through the city and like checkpoints on either side of
my street.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And I was listening to.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I think it was a Kara Swisher podcast and She
also lives in DC, and she was saying, oh, well,
I haven't really noticed any big changes, and I'm thinking.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Kara, Yeah, yeah, I bet, I bet you aren't noticing
many changes.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, I bet you haven't noticed any changes. And yeah,
I mean I've lived in DC most of my whole life.
I've never seen checkpoints where people are physically dragged out
of cars and in this way. So I mean, if
you don't live in a neighborhood like this, you might
be able to get away with saying, oh, I haven't
seen any big changes, or nothing's really changed, or maybe
(15:45):
I just see the National Guard when I leave my house.
But in neighborhoods like mine, the change.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Is very real.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I'll put it that way. So you brought up the mayor,
which I did want to briefly touch on. I have
been called out on this very podcast for being too
sympathetic to our mayor, which is actually funny to me
because on my other podcast all we do is call
her out. But the point that I have tried to make,
and I think this is the nature of that of
that critique, is that I do think it is important
(16:14):
that people understand that our lack of statehood in DC
does put our mayor in a position where her authority
is just realistically a lot more limited than other elected officials.
But even in that situation with realistically limited authority, her
play here has been cozying up to Trump. And that
is one hundred percent a choice. That is not something
(16:34):
that other elected officials in DC have done.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
That is one hundred percent a choice.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And it's a choice in an attempt in some ways
to diffuse the situation to not have Trump escalate, to
not go into a even more like legally uncharted territory, right,
to not accelerate the conflict. And I think a lot
of people who are critiquing this move actually would be
very interested in this point, in accelerating this conflict, seeing
(17:01):
what Trump will actually do stress tests even more of
our democracy, and a lot of people are interested in
watching the results of that happen. And I can see
how someone like Bowser doesn't want to do that, But
that opens her up for a lot of critique. And
I'm interested in what you said about like other city officials,
that's not something I've heard as much about, is her
(17:23):
kind of cooperating with Trump compared to the stance of
other city officials.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I mean, look at DC's Attorney General Brian Schwab, who
has been out here suing the Trump administration somewhat successfully
and has been a much more obvious fighter for DC. Right,
so like, he is certainly not playing nice. He's like, oh,
we're gonna fight this in the courts. If you want
to try to take over our city, we will see.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
You in court.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I'm so curious what the conversations are like between Bowser
and Schwab, but it just reveals to me that capitulating
and cozying up. I'm not gonna say it's not a strategy,
but it's certainly a choice. And to your earlier there
are definitely people who say, hey, she's playing nice with Trump.
D C still has home rule, DC still has a mayor,
(18:08):
and the crime emergency has ended. Those are all good things,
and being a resident of DC, I will happily say
I don't want to see how far Trump will go
on this. I want this to end. I want you know,
I'm not someone who was like, yeah, like, let the
chips fall where they may. I want my trash picked up.
I want my you know, my neighbors kids to be
(18:29):
able to go to school all of that. I'm not.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I'm not that's understandable.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's the complex thing.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I do think that, you know, early on in this,
Bowser was talking about how crime in DC was down,
and then Trump said on social media, oh, Bowser better
get her story straight on the crime numbers or things
are gonna get worse, And days later she was taking
in a very different tune. She did a press conference
(18:55):
where she thanked the federal government. She did stop short
of thanking Trump specifically, but thanking the federal government for
helping DC with the crime issue. And I guess, as
somebody who's been following Bowser for as long as I have,
it wasn't terribly surprising in an episode I did of it.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Could happen here. I think back in January.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
We talked about how her stance with Trump this time
around was like concession after concession after concession, So it
wasn't surprising.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
This falls in line with that, I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Correct, And I do think that people need to understand
that in a lot of ways Bowser and I don't
mean this in the way that it's going to sound,
but like, I do think that there is alignment between
Bowser and Trump on a lot of issues, crime potentially
being one of them. Right, when we were talking about
how Trump wanted Bowser to dismantle encampments in DC, it
(19:45):
wasn't like Bowser as some friend to the homeless.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
No no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, like the specific encampment in question, she already had
plans to demolish, just later on on a slower timeline.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
There is a class alignment among people in the political
quote unquote elite. Right. You can look at Gavin Newsom's
extreme anti homeless policies and compare that to Trump's extreme
anti homeless policies, and yeah, they have class alignment on
that issue, even if Gavin might be against Trump on
some other issues, though he has his own fair share
(20:18):
of concessions to Trump.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Oh you said it, friend.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Also, I like that I'm on a first name basis
with Gavin.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
I know, gab.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Podcaster solidarity and as we've seen the past week, podcaster
solidarity most important thing. Ooh yes, oh yes.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Also also fellow, iHeart podcaster.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I believe for Gavin. Yeah, and yeah, hope he joins
the union.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Same, And I guess I should say to your point
about the complexities about you know, the way that Bowser,
our mayor is playing this. It's true that it's good
that the crime emergency has ended, that DC still has
home rule. We still have a mayor, we saw the
city council as of today. And even if you will say, well,
that's you know, the mayor CosIng up with Trump, like
(21:03):
you have that to thank that's why that's happening. Our
mayor is really making no friends with other black mayors
in cities like Chicago and Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I have to assume.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, when she does press conferences where she talks about
how having federal troops in DC has been good for
the city, how crime it's gone down, when you have
these other cities that are currently trying to fend off
federal takeovers from Trump. So even if her CosIng up
with Trump has led to d C specifically being able
to enjoy home rule for another day, at what cost
if it enables Trump's actions in other cities.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
You know, me putting on my skull mask as I
bring out my chessboarding the accelerationist collapse of DC and
how that affects a larger political situation in the United States. Yes,
how much of DC am I willing to sacrifice to
see how far Trump will go.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
It's complicated because obviously, as a DC resident, I want
to have a safe and peaceful existence for myself here
in DC. But it's not happening in a vacuum, and
so I also have to think about, you know, the
national implications for other cities. And you know, I don't
envy our mayor. I guess I don't envy many mayors. Oh.
(22:14):
I am firmly believe if you want to become the
mayor of a city like DC, Baltimore, Chicago, something has
to be wrong with you.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
And Bridget Todd has come out against Zorn Mamdani officially
it could happen here podcast No.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
No, no, I'm just saying I mean, yeah, I'll say it.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Who wants a job like that?
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Though?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
It sounds like aod nightmare.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I had a friend who was like vying to be
the head of comms for the Baltimore Police Department, and
I was like, Wow, you are a massacre.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
That's even a weirder, that's even weirder.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, that's like the I can't imagine to never know
peace and not get into heaven. He's probably listening and thinking, oh,
why should talking shit about me? And so it is complicated,
and I do think it's important as an As much
as I want DC to be a safe place where
(23:04):
I can walk outside and not see people getting dragged
out of cars and federal checkpoints and all of that,
we do need to think about the larger picture here.
And people that I've talked to with regards to the mayor,
they tell me that, oh, it seems like she is
just not interested in the like the polling of these decisions,
because the conversations that I am having people are not
happy with her. In the spaces I am in. The
(23:26):
conversation is like, how do we recall this mayor? Like,
even though we might have these sort of things that
you consider victories, DC enjoying home rules, still having a mayor,
a city council, all of that, people are really really
really not happy with our mayor. Yeah, so looking ahead
(23:52):
at what's coming up next. Even though the crime emergency
is ending, this whole thing is.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Very far from over.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
The fight for the self determination of DC as far
from over in ways that have in a lot of
ways nothing.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
To do with Trump.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
There are thirteen bills in the House aimed at directly
taking action at DC. Many of them are direct assaults
on DC's home rules. There are provisions that would make
it easier for Congress to overturn DC home rule. There
are provisions that lower the age of when you can
be tried as an adult for crimes from sixteen to fourteen.
There is a provision that would give Congress longer time
(24:29):
to review DC's laws. Right now, it's thirty days. They
would change it to sixty days. All of DC's laws
have to go through Congress. It is a nightmare, Like
it is a whole thing. The biggest of these bills
in the House right now is of course, wanting to
overturn DC's ability for district residents to elect our own
attorney general instead of having an attorney general appointed by Trump.
(24:52):
If that bill were to become law, it would mean
that our current attorney general, the person who I would argue,
has sort of emerged as the If there was a
single person that you could look at and be like, oh,
this person is trying to fight for DC's home rule
and authority, Brian Schwab, he would be fired immediately and
Trump would be able to replace him with whoever he chose.
(25:12):
Not somebody that district residents elected or voted for or
campaigned for, just whoever Trump wanted, and that term would
run concurrent with the.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
President of the United States.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
So obviously, you know, some of these pieces are not
overturning home rule entirely, but they are clearly attacks on
DC's ability to govern itself and the self determination of
folks here in the district.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Are you going to discuss what's going to happen with
the Safe and Beautiful Task Force? Oh no, but I
can has mean passed the expiration of the order, Bowser's
establishment of the task force to continue federal cooperation. Yes,
I guess it's like one of the most immediate, like
continuing aspects of this story. And it's like unclear how
much this heightened federal presence will last past the expiration
(25:59):
of the order.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
So in a.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Press conference, I have to say, Bowser was pretty tight
lipped when asked directly about all of that, and so
a lot of it sounds like wade and see, like
she really did not give clear answers. And so I
walked away from that presser being just as confused as
you probably are, just disconfused as listeners are. I do
think in part that speaks to the unprecedented nature of
(26:22):
the way that Trump is dealing with DC right now,
of like they might genuinely not know, but the fact
of the way that she has been so tight lipped.
I hate giving this answer, but I think it's a
wade and see kind of situation. Yeah, fair, Hi, this
is Future Bridget coming in on Monday night to say
that we actually got more clarity on the question of
whether or not police in DC would continue working with
(26:44):
federal immigration officials after DC's crime emergency ended. DC's Mayor
Muriel Bowser was still being pretty tight lipped about this
when Gary and I were speaking about it on Friday,
but on Monday, September fifteenth, it was reported that Bowser
had announced that d C's Police Department MPD would no
longer be assisting immigration officials with immigration enforcement the way
(27:06):
they had been during the crime emergency. Bowser said immigration
enforcement is not what MPD does, and with the end
of the emergency, it won't be what MPD does. Trump
did not like this, and on Monday, Trump renewed threats
to federalize DC's police again if the department does not
cooperate with ice saying, quote, under pressure from the radical
(27:29):
left Democrats, Mayor Muriel Bowser, who has presided over this violent,
criminal takeover of our capital for years, has informed the
federal government that the Metropolitan Police Department will no longer
cooperate with ICE in removing and relocating dangerous illegal aliens.
If I allowed this to happen, all caps crime would
come roaring back to the people and businesses of Washington,
(27:52):
d C. All caps, don't worry. I am with you
and won't allow this to happen. I'll call a national
emergency and federalized if necessary.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Three exclamation points.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
And so I guess one of the big questions that
I've been wrestling with is what does all of this
mean for the future of DC. There was a time
where it felt like lawmakers had DC's back, but it's
really become clear that the days of DC being able
to count on the Senate and Congress are over. I
did an interview with a long time journalist here in DC,
(28:26):
Marxy Graves, and he reminded me that DC has really
been the most reliable jurisdiction in the country there is
for Democrats. There's no other place that has given more
electoral votes for president to Democrats every single election.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
It's extremely consistent extreme.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I mean, have you seen that map where it's the
election for Reagan and it's a whole big splotch of
red and only I think Minnesota and DC are the
only blotch of blue. Like nobody backs Democrats like d
C backs Democrat every single time. California can't say that,
Massachusetts can't say that. And in return, the party has
(29:06):
essentially abandoned us. They circulated messaging nationally telling Democrats to
tread carefully about how to talk about what is clearly
an attempt at a fascist takeover of our city. DC
has given Democrats this unwavering support since we had the
ability to vote in presidential elections, which it hasn't been
that long since, only since the sixties, but still right like,
(29:28):
and this is how they do us. And we have
known for years that Republicans like Mike Lee and others
have had their eye on DC. They want to overturn
DC rules, overturn DC laws, even things that have nothing
to do with crime and public safety, things like abortion.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
It is so clearly about control.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
They have been eyeing control of DC for many, many,
many many years. And now we have this big, wide, open,
breezy window allowing them to do that.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Is DC spiritually Midwestern? Because like it's same question.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Tell me more about what you mean by.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
This, because like, in some ways, you know, it is
like a coastal, elite place and it's like the you know,
the heart of political power. But DC to me always
has kind of had Midwest vibes. I don't I don't
know how to express it any other way. Maybe it's
because so many people from the Midwest move to d
C to do politics work. But I'm sure people from
all over move to DC to do politics work. But
(30:26):
like DC and like Minneapolis feel like very similar cities
to me in some ways.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I have said this before.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
See that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, I have said this before, Like I think there
is something to this where And in that interview I
did with Mark C.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Graves, he kind of he kind of gets at it
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
But I do think that d C is the kind
of place where you can just sort of take for
granted that I will always live in this sort of
progressive city.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I will always sort of live in this city.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Like I think it's easy to take things like home
rule in DC for granted, and I think d s
the nature of d C is a little bit weird
that as kind of alluded to. It's a very transient city,
and so there are people living in DC who have
only known one Mayor Bowser because she's been mayor for
like ten years.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Right. They don't know Mayor Gray, they don't know Mayor Fenti.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
They don't know how kind of tenuous a lot of
what holds DC together actually is. And it can be
really easy when you're living in a city the historically
has enjoyed low unemployment, has been pretty moneyed, is pretty progressive.
The kinds of fights that we were having in DC
before all this started, they seem so quaint now, bike
(31:35):
lanes tipped minimum wage, like all of these. You know,
it is sort of like Minneapolis in a kind of way.
You're not You're not wrong.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Well, I'm glad. I'm glad my vibes meter is still
accurately attute.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yes, And I did want to spend a little bit
of time talking about the protests and pushback that we've seen,
because DC has not taken this quietly. There was a
massive protest in March that I will say, I'm a
little sad that it didn't get more national coverage. Weirdly,
it got a lot of international coverage, but not a
ton of national coverage, which is sort of part and
(32:08):
parcel for DC. So many national outlets only think about
DC when it comes to federal implications, and when it
comes to what's happening locally in our streets and at
Malcolm X Park and all of that, they're like, DC,
who we don't know her?
Speaker 3 (32:22):
So like that protest was quite moving.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
We also have local groups like Harriet's Wildest Dreams and
Free DC who are great resources.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Free DC a lot of their work has.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Been at the community level, leading things like cop watching trainings,
like training residents to film enforcement stops, which when you
consider what Tayu Armis told me from the Washington Post
about how these immigration detentions and arrests are often just
a black box. Like we've seen video where a resident
is being detained by immigration officials and they're speaking to
(32:55):
the person recording like please record this, please record this,
you know, and so I do think like things like
that are super important when you're dealing with this black
box dynamic of immigration detensions and arrests.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
We also have things like educating residents on their legal rights.
And this is like a weird saying in DC.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
DC has a ton of parks, actually more parks than
any other part of the country. Were consistently voted the
number one city in the country for parks, and so
because DC is just a wonky place, sometimes you don't
know if you're on federal versus city property. So you
can find yourself in a park that's just a tiny
(33:35):
little triangle of grass. Oh no, you're actually on federal property.
So if you get arrested there, you're actually in a
federal jurisdiction, even though you're miles from the White House
and you thought like, oh, I'm just hanging out in
a public park.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
So we have seen.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Local activist groups and organized in groups really try to
educate folks on their rights and some of those distinctions
of like, hey, if you commit a crime here, you're
technically on federal property and you should understand that. And
I wanted to you mention this because I do think
it's easier to think of resistance as this big, loud,
visible thing happening in the streets, and as moving and
(34:10):
powerful as that big protest was so far, I think
a lot of the powerful resistance has been community oriented.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It's not as exciting as you know, being out on
the streets necessarily, but it is no less important.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, the non flashy stuff often goes under recognized.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, And I will also say that folks might know
DC has its own style of music called go go,
which is sort of a city local artistic expression of
music here. And I've even seen groups like Harriots, Wildest
Dreams trying to organize joyful go go jams in public
spaces just to remind folks that joy is also part
(34:51):
of resistance, Just so that the only thing that we're
talking about is not defending our cities and being on
the defense, but also reconnecting to the things that make
our cities joyful and exciting and and and lovely places
to be. And I think it has been important to me,
when you're sick to death of reporting about all of this,
(35:12):
also getting to remember that.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Joy is part of it.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
That's like why we're doing this, so that we can
experience joy in our cities.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yes, I agree, we will allow a little bit of
joy I suppose in this day. Yeah, semi un joyful time.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, a tiny bit, I will speaking of joy I
wanted to end on one last teeny tiny little tidbit
about resistance, which is that when I when we were
talking last time, Gare, I told you I think this
was like the day that the takeover was announced, there
was that guy who threw a sandwich at the parag Yes, yes,
well they popped this dude on felony charges, but DC's
(35:51):
grand jury failed to indict, and now he's down to
a misdemeanor, so he pled not guilty I think just
a couple of days ago, to just a misdemeanor. So yeah,
I mean grand jury's they used to say, like, oh,
you could get.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
A grand jury, then buy a ham sandwich.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I guess not if it's thrown at a federal office,
or you can't not in DC.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
It's just like the only good piece of grand jury
news I have kind of ever heard in my life.
Whenever I hear news about a grand jury, it's always
like terrible, Like, oh no, that sounds awful. Yeah, this
is uh the first, the first based grand jury I've
ever seen.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yes, yes, I mean if you're listening in if you're
listening in DC and you're on a grand jury, you
know what to do.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Well, does Souths put it that way. But yeah, that's
all I have really.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I would just say, you know, if you happen to
be listening in a place that is not the district,
we really need your voice. You know, when stuff happens,
there's not really anybody I can call. We have a
congressional representative, Eleanor Holmes Norton, Ugh. She has been a
lifelong fighter for d C and d c's self determination
(36:59):
and civil rights. She is also i think the second
oldest person in Congress. And I'll just say it's showing
I think, you know, we don't really have a lot
of people who are fighting for us and being a
voice for us. And so yeah, stay checked in to
d C. Even if Trump moves to you know, deploy
(37:22):
national guards in other places, other kinds of takeovers. What's
happening in DC is unique. It cannot happen in any
other place in the country. And we're so often overlooked
and ignored. And so if there are bills moving through Congress,
call your Congress people and please advocate for the self
determination of DC residents, because we have no one to
(37:43):
advocate for on our behalf.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
So please be our voice.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Thank you for talking about DC once again, Bridget Where
can people find you online and your other shows?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
You can check me out on my podcast. There are
no girls on the Internet. On iHeartRadio, a co host
a podcast called Citycast DC about local happenings and politics
and news and DC. You can check that out. I'm
on Instagram at Bridget Marine DC. I'm on TikTok at
Bridget Marine DC, and I'm on YouTube. There are no
girls on the Internet. Yeah, that's right, Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Cool, I'm glad we figured that out, all right.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Noll I guess YouTube is is like, guess that's cool.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
I'm doing my best out there.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
So true. It could Happen Here is a production of
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It Could Happen Here News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
Show Links
AboutPopular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com