February 24, 2023 • 30 mins
In this episode, It's Going Down guests hosts once again and sits down with both abortion clinic defenders and doulas to find out how people have been organizing over the last year in the wake of the Dobbs decision, while antifascist journalist Vishal Singh and Melissa Fowler from the National Abortion Federation warn that the Right is building a coalition that includes openly fascist and white supremacist groups - as Christian Nationalists set their sights on blocking access to abortion pills.
Includes: Interviews with a clinic defender from @nycforabortion, abortion doula @Ash_Bash23, and Melissa Fowler from @NatAbortionFed
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back, Dick had happened here? Once again the folks
from It's going down or taking over the show? As
today we do a deep dive into how autonomous organizers
are pushing back against a wave of far right attacks
on reproductive freedom and autonomy across the United States. A
note to our listeners, this episode will include discussion on
both sexual and far right violence. I'm your host, Mike Andrews.
(00:28):
Let's get into it. In May of twenty twenty two,
Politico first reported on the historic league from the Supreme
Court about the overturning of Row versus Wade, the landmark
nineteen seventy three decision which ruled under the Fourteenth Amendment,
that a pregnant person has the right to privacy, including
the liberty to abort their fetus. In June of twenty
(00:49):
twenty two, the Dabb's Decisions struck down Row, ruling that
the Constitution does not guarantee a person the right to
an abortion, triggering a wave of state governments rolling abortion
rights and access for many. However, the fall of Row
only further cemented a lack of access to reproductive healthcare
has already been the norm for millions. As the Hill wrote, quote,
(01:11):
as of twenty twenty, six states had only one abortion
clinic each in eighty nine percent of America's counties had
no abortion clinic at all, the cumulative effect of decades
of restrictions authored by anti abortion lawmakers. This is not
to say that things haven't gotten worse. They have in
the months following the dabb's decision. In states like Ohio,
(01:31):
where access has been attacked, A rape survivor was forced
to travel out of state to find an abortion, while
local politicians, including the state's Republican attorney general, claimed on
Fox News that the story was totally fabricated. In other instances,
people in Ohio have been denied care even though they
faced potentially life threatening complications. In Texas, one woman nearly
(01:53):
died due to sepsis because she was initially barred access
to an abortion by doctors. And these are only some
of the stories that have made headlines. The deeper impact
on this countrywide attack and reproductive health has hit low
income and communities of color the hardest. A recent study
from the University of San Francisco found that quote a
third of American women of reproductive age now face excessive
(02:16):
travel times to obtain an abortion, while twice as many
are being forced to travel more than an hour to
reach an abortion provider. In short, attacks on abortion, coupled
with the already exploding wealth gap, lack of access to healthcare,
the rising cost of living, and the continuing COVID nineteen pandemic,
will only expand existing equalities, especially for people of color,
(02:38):
the disabled, and queer and trans folks. In particular, on
the legal front, some states have pushed to expand abortion access,
and many are challenging legal attacks in the courtroom. Minnesota,
for instance, most recently became the first state to enshrine
abortion as a right. Meanwhile, many continued to donate to
abortion funds and nonprofits like Planned Parenthood, or even launching
(03:00):
mobile clinics to provide care and areas hit the hardest
due to recent bands. But as our first two guests,
Beck's part of a clinic defense group in New York City,
in ashe an abortion doula in North Carolina, reported, many
autonomous organizers aren't putting their faith in the courts, the cops,
or the state. You know. Living in New York City,
(03:20):
abortion is legal, and it is legal before a row,
and it's been legal after row, but that doesn't really
necessarily mean anything kind of is what we've seen. So
one of the things that we've seen is we've seen
on anti abortion protesters and activists coming up from red
states to target blue states now and so we've definitely
seen their presence increasing outside of the clinic that we
defend and soho in Manhattan. And so that's I would say,
(03:43):
is one of the biggest things that we've seen is
that they really are targeting Blue states, are targeting New
York City. There I'm actively trying to recruit people to
come to New York City, is I think the biggest
thing that we've seen. And then also in New York City,
we've been struggling a lot with a really esculatory police presence.
I don't our clinice. So that's the other thing that
we're definitely really really struggling with is the response of
(04:04):
the state after Doubs. So the first thing that I
want folks to know is that people abortion haers, people
who might have abortions. Where I am in time and space,
they have always already been navigating some of these post
rorealities that a lot of folks are just getting hipped
to like after that fateful Friday in June last year.
(04:25):
And so I want to name here that we've always
had a seventy two hour waiting period in North Carolina,
which is one of the longest waiting periods in the country.
And there's a slew of other things that we find
both hostile and restrictive. And I'm using those words to
describe a situation, an ongoing situation, because these are the
(04:46):
words that are being used to describe North Carolina now
as we're seeing an influx of folks coming to North Carolina.
So I'm saying that for the folks who live here
always already like they've been dealing with a restrictive, hostile climate.
Becks just shared a little bit about like the presence
of anti abortion protesters, so we've always been dealing with that.
(05:10):
In twenty eighteen, the abortion clinic that I had two
abortions at in my life, they saw the most anti
abortion protesters in the Southeast, and we continue to see this.
We also continue to see as we see these anti
abortion protesters right a police presence, and we know or
I'm concerned about what that means for black folks having abortions,
(05:33):
for people who are undocumented and for people who otherwise
like don't want the police all up in their business.
In addition to what's changed since jobs are not change, right,
but change, we have semen influx of folks coming to
North Carolina from states where abortion is illegal or there
are bands kind of early ingestation, and we're seeing those
(05:55):
folks come to the clinics and access the services and
the support networks that we have here in North Carolina.
I think that one thing with the group that I
work with called ed VIC for Abortion Rights, one thing
that we've been working really hard on is not only
talking about abortion, not only talking about you know, going
beyond just legalizing it, but also really focusing on like
our communities and building mutual aid networks, building repro justice networks,
(06:17):
and also just working overall on like community defense. So
we work with a lot of mutual aid organizations all
over the city of New York. And that's one thing
that we're doing, like Ash was saying, is we're focusing on,
you know, how do these people who are outside of
our clinics are not only anti abortion, but they're also
anti LGBTQ. They are fascist. That is something that we
should be saying they are also pro police. None. None
of these things happen inside of a vacuum. They're all interconnected.
(06:40):
And I think that that's one thing that we really
really have to do is talk about how the issue
of abortion bridge is out to so many other things,
and we can't only fight one issue. We have to
fight all of them. But we also have to fight
the root of where these things are coming from. And
they're coming from this mass conservative movement that's been being
built since the nineteen seventies, you know, groups like Focus
on the Family, like the ETI Federalists. These groups have
(07:01):
so much influence in our society, and we need to
be going after all of it. We can't only be
going after you know, one tiny, you know, sector of
the massive problem, because like Ash said, it is all interconnected. Here,
I'm thinking about like some political education that needs to happen,
like and that is the framework and the theories of
(07:22):
reproductive Justice. I know that they recognize so many it
recognizes so many things. But one of the things that
grounds me that it recognizes that r J recognizes is
that dismantling white supremacy is key to achieving reproductive justice.
It also says it posits that we live interconnected lives
and not single issue lives. And it also for me,
(07:46):
this yields that, like we can't rely on the state
to provide what we need. I'm seeing abortion doulas, clinic escorts,
abortion funds, and other organizers and organizations really come together
to support people having abortions and resist criminalization and state
violence right now, and we need to see more of that.
You know, you talk about pro choice. I think it's
(08:08):
so whack, like the logics of pro choice. We need
to go further beyond the logics of pro choice and
understand that RJ says that there is no choice without access.
And furthermore, RJ posits that the key to controlling entire
communities is to controlling bodies. So if they're coming for
the trans people on their HRT and their access to
(08:30):
gender affirming and medical care, then they're gonna come for
everyone else. Then they're gonna come for the abortion avers.
They've been coming for the poor people. I think that,
like again, when we go back to that reproductive justice framework,
we can begin to like make these connections. And I'm
also saying this as an organizer, like reproductive justice is
(08:51):
my lane, but so as like environmental justice and so
as racial justice. And I'm on the front lines of
different movements, and I go back to this this framework
because it acknowledges that, like black people need an in too,
anti black racism, and we need an end to the
police and clean fucking water right now. I don't know
of a framework that says that, like we ought to
(09:13):
demand all of those things right fucking now, and that
we actually can't live self determined lives without all of
that shit. And so I'm ready to talk about RJ,
like I'm ready to do that political education. I think
it's ongoing work, and right like, you don't have to
be an abortion dou lah or a frontline organizer to
help someone get to their appointment, to fund an abortion,
(09:35):
to affirm someone's decision and support their decision to have
an abortion. And so we really need that, like we
need that vibe right now. We need people to show
up that way. I think that my biggest frustration with
Democrats is they've been telling us for years, like, oh,
you know, vote for us, vote for us. They've been
fundraising off of the issue of abortion for decades now.
They have done absolutely nothing, And I think that what
(09:55):
they've really done, is they've really made us, made us
as in the general like American populists feel as though
voting is the only way that we can change things,
and that voting is the only way that we can
like show our impact and like help our communities, when
in reality, it isn't. It's going out onto the streets.
It's also you know, doing abortion do the work. It's
also you know, going out defunding clinics. It's doing all
(10:17):
of this work. And we don't need the Democrats to
do that. And what we need to be doing is
we need to be talking about the state and how
we can go beyond the state. I also want to
say here, like fuck Row. Like Row is the kind
of legal infrastructure that made abortion possible, but it also
made it possible for like both the Democrats, the Republicans,
(10:37):
the Christian Evangelicals, anyone who was checking for it to
take abortion away. So like fuck Row. It also gave
us the trimester framework, which is like really whack. And
it also kind of made it more possible for the
states and the federal government to put in bands and
restrictions on abortion. That's something that we need to get
clear about as well. As we fight to decriminalize and
(10:59):
not legislate further abortion. Stay with us, it could happen here.
We'll return after these words from our sponsors. On July
twenty seventh, nineteen ninety six, Eric Rudoff said off a
(11:20):
nail bomb during the Summer Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia. The
explosion killed one person immediately. All over one hundred more
were horrifically injured. In the communicate, claiming responsibility for the bombing,
Rudoff denounced the Olympics, abortion and LGBTQ rights with talking
points that seemed ripped right out of Tucker Carlson's nightly
(11:41):
news headlines. He wrote, the world converged upon Atlanta to
celebrate the ideals of global socialism. The purpose of my
attack the Washington government sanctioning of abortion on demand. Along
with abortion, another assault upon the integrity of American society
is the considered effort to legitimize the practice of homosexuality,
(12:03):
whether it's gay marriage, homosexual adoption, hate crime laws including gays,
or the attempt to introduce a homosexual normalizing curriculum into
our schools. All of these efforts should be ruthlessly opposed.
The existence of our culture depends on it. Rudolph would
go on to carry out more deadly attacks against abortion
(12:24):
clinics in a queer nightclub, releasing communications under the banner
of the Army of God, a group which endorsed leaderless
resistance and was linked to the white supremaci Christian Identity
movement and the murder of multiple abortion providers. The Army
of God was just one formation that grew out of
Christian Identity, a mix of white supremacy and Christianity. The
(12:45):
priests that Jews were Satanic and people of color were
subhuman and needed to be destroyed in a racial holy war.
Christian identity adherents set up paramilitary compounds, Bible camps, radio stations,
and churches from the Aryan Nations to the Covenant of
the Sword in the Arm of the Lord, and they
helped usher in a wave of homegrown terrorist groups such
(13:07):
as The Order and individuals like Timothy. They carried out
the Oklahoma City bombing. Meanwhile, above ground, groups like Operation
Rescue cheered on the violence against abortion providers while organizing
mass protests at clinics with the aim of shutting them down.
In twenty fifteen, when a gunman killed three people in
a mass shooting at a clinic in Colorado Springs. The
(13:29):
far right anti abortion movement had carried out eight murders,
seventeen attempted murders, forty two bombings, in one hundred and
eighty six arsons, all targeted against abortion clinics and providers.
Wanted to know more about the history of far attacks
on abortion access if they were indeed rising in the
current post Stops period. We sat down with bullitsa Fowler
(13:50):
of the National Abortion Federation. Unfortunately, since abortion was legalized
with the versus Weight decision, there has been a really
coordinated campaign of harassment and violence to target abortion providers
and try to stop access to legal abortion. And we've
been tracking this since the late seventies. There have been
(14:15):
a number of escalating events, everything from clinic protests and
clinic blockades all the way up to arsons and murders
of providers just because they do this work. So when
we talk about this, it's very real, it's very real threats,
and it is really terrorism that's happening by a coordinated
(14:36):
group of people and individuals who really are aimed at
stopping any access to legal abortion care. So we definitely,
and have seen for a long time that there is
an overlap between the people that target abortion providers and
the people that are involved in other types of violent
and extremist movements, including white nationalists. We've known that for
(14:58):
a long time existed many years. In fact, in the eighties,
the KKK began creating one imposters listing the personal information
of abortion providers, and the first provider who was murdered,
doctor David Gunn, who was murdered in nineteen ninety three,
was murdered by someone who was a white supremacist who
had been mentored by someone who was a former KKK member,
(15:22):
And so we've seen the overlap of these groups, and
in the last couple of years we've seen that overlap
be more coordinated and more public. So on January sixth
at the insurrection, a lot of our members were watching
on TV and recognized people because they were the same
people that protest at their clinics. In fact, providers that
(15:44):
even noted that day of pulling in the parking lot
and not seeing their usual protesters and wondering what was
going on because they saw less people outside of clinics,
And we later found out it's because many of them
were at the Capitol, and a number of people who
are active the anti abortion movement have boasted about being
at the insurrection, posted video and pictures of themselves at
(16:06):
the insurrection, and so it's very clear to us and
we very much see that overlap. We also see more
more of these right wing groups actually showing up and
participating at anti abortion events, so attending some of the
marches around the country in a more visible way than
we've seen in the past. Sometimes these right wing groups
(16:27):
will do quote unquote security for the anti abortion movement,
so when they have people who are speaking or they're
holding large events to target providers, they'll get security assistance
from white nationalist groups. And so, you know, it's particularly
disturbing to see. It doesn't surprise us because we've been
(16:49):
we've known that there's an overlap in these groups for
a really long time. But as as we've seen in
recent years, as people seem to be more okay being
more visible about their membership in these groups or more
vocal about their hate, we're seeing it more publicly. The
anti abortion movement is not doing anything to distance themselves
(17:09):
from these groups. So since the leak happened, last May,
we immediately saw an increase in harassment and online posts
that were threatening toward abortion providers. Even though we got
a preview of the decision and we knew what was
coming and that it would lead to clinics closing, that
wasn't enough for some people. We saw calls for people
(17:32):
to go and burn clinics, or go and take matters
into their own hands and not wait for the decision,
to go and try and stop abortions from being provided
that moment, and so we track those types of online posts.
We saw a real spike in May and June around
the decision, and we also started immediately hearing from our
member clinics that they were seeing an increase in protesters
(17:55):
and increase in threats, and it increase in the intensity
and hostility of those activities, so more really aggressive protesters
that were touching patients and staff, yelling at patients and staff,
photographing patients and staff, and you know, since the decision,
we have seen a number of clinics close in places
that are considered more hostile to abortion rights. But we
(18:18):
know from our past experience that when a clinic closes,
the protesters don't just give up and go home. In
many cases, anti abortion individuals will travel the same paths
that patients are traveling, and they will go to other
states where abortion remains successible and target the clinics there.
So we are seeing an increase in activity in the
places where abortion is remaining legal and where patients are
(18:41):
going to get care. And we're still you know, we're
just now collecting the numbers for twenty twenty two, so
we don't we don't have those for a little bit,
but we do know anecdotally and what we're hearing from
members and what we're seeing on the ground is that
there is an increase in that activity. There have been
a few arsons this year. We're also seeing clinic invasions continue,
(19:01):
and these are instances where people might pose as patients.
In some cases, they go to a lot of work
to try and infiltrate the clinic and find out about
their practices for making appointments, and then they will pose
as patients, make fake appointments and try to get into
the clinic forcibly if they if they have to, and
(19:25):
then once they're inside they're harassing patients, they refuse to leave.
In some cases they hand out flowers or sing or
yell in California, they walked through the halls screaming the
name of the doctor, ordering the doctor to come out
and face them, and it was very traumatic for staff.
They didn't know if this person was armed or what
(19:46):
they were doing. And you know, they had patients in
procedure rooms with them or in counseling rooms, and they
were locking the door and sheltering in place, and it
was very frightening. And we continue to see these types
of invasions happen across the country. Ironically, however, laws passed
in the nineteen nineties designed to protect people seeking abortions
(20:06):
and reproductive healthcare have now been weaponized against those who
have been taking action in the wake of the Daub's decision,
most notably under the banner of Jane's Revenge, a moniker
used by anonymous activists taking action, usually in the form
were broken windows and graffiti against anti choice, crisis pregnancy
centers and beyond. As Natasha Leonard wrote in the Intercept,
(20:28):
Congress passed the Face Act in nineteen eighty four, owing
the assassinations and mass clinic blockades, making the physical obstruction
of clinics a federal offense. As well as threats of
force and violence against clinic workers and clinic property. In
its thirty years on the books has been used sparingly.
Now this laws being used to prosecute to reproductive rights
activists who allegedly spray painted the outside walls of misleading
(20:51):
and dangerous crisis pregnancy centers known as CPCs and now
face up to twelve years in prison for the graffiti.
This use of the ACE Act against those fighting to
protect reproductive freedom and autonomy by weaponizing laws supposedly aimed
at those threatening it mirrors the numerous domestic terrorism charges
lodged against forest defenders in Atlanta, made possible by a
(21:12):
bill in twenty seventeen following the massacre of nine black
parishioners by the white supremast. Dylan Roof stay with us,
it can happen here, will return after these words from
our sponsors. As the culture War is deepened on the
right and even mainstream GEOP leaders have embraced white nationalists
(21:33):
talking points, many openly neo Nazi and white supremise groups
have come to see the anti choice movement as a
lucrative recruiting ground in a point of engagement with the
wider right wing base. Again, we hear from clinic defender
Becks in New York, an abortion doula Ash in North Carolina.
In our case in New York City, the group that
we defend, the Clinic Front, is this Catholic group that
(21:55):
gets an armed escort from the NYPD. So that's one
thing that really scares me, you know, when we talk
about a far right is that the NYPD has been
aiding these far right groups and getting them escorts for
a very very long time. And so I think that
kind of like goes to a lot of the fears
that a lot of us have when it comes to
this kind of collaboration and the changing face of anti
abortion protesters. We already know down here that cops and
(22:18):
clan go hand in hand, and unfortunately, like newly white
radicalized I don't know if you can call them that,
but like politicized white women who want to defend clinics,
they saw they they realize these realities, like the cops
are not here to defend you or people who want
to have abortions, and we actually don't need the cops
(22:40):
to have abortions and to make reproductive justice a real
possibility in all of our lives. I'm thinking here also
about like the need to decriminalize abortion and not legalize
abortion again, as an abolitionist, as an abortion doula, and
as someone who's had abortions, I'm making these connect and
(23:00):
as a trans person. Right, I'm making these connections that
like the folks who are standing outside of abortion clinics,
the anti choice, the anti abortion folks, these are the
same people who are pro police people. These are the
same people who are racist in our communities, who are classist,
who are anti black, who are fascists, and furthermore, right,
(23:20):
like these people who stand outside of abortion clinics, they
are the same people perpetuating these rhetorics that like gay
people are groomers, but also that like critical race theory
for examples, shouldn't be taught in school. I am making
these connections, and I'm also going back to that reproductive
justice framework that reminds me that, like, what do we
(23:41):
have to do now is that we have to fight together,
and one of the ways we can do that is
by making these connections. Right, like these people are Christian evangelicals,
they are fascists. Explicitly, we need to say that, and
it behooves all of us to like, really fight together
along those lines. In the year since the attempted pro
(24:05):
Trump coups on January six, neo Nazis, white supremacists, and
Proud Boys have ramped up their presence at anti choice events.
The neo Nazi group Patriot Front has shut up to
march alongside various anti abortion groups, often to be bent
with handshakes from anti abortion activists and police escorts to
protect them from anti fascists. Several weeks ago, openly fascist
(24:27):
groups took part in the yearly Walk for Life rally
in San Francisco, California. US thousands took to the city
streets after being bust in from across the state. Marching
alongside them were Proud Boys decked out in your uniforms
and mass neo Nazis holding openly racist banners. Wanting to
know more about this continued crossover, we spoke with anti
fascist journalists Pshaw Singh based in southern California. In the
(24:50):
wake of the reversal of Rovy Way, there was big
spike in demonstrations from the right wing where they were
targeting clinics. They were targeting any kind of cool aboards
with any kind of reproductive health anything. They were doing
it for several months in places like California, where abortion
is still provided and still accessible. That makes a lot
(25:13):
of the anti abortion movement still feel like they're the
victim of something even though they just had this massive
political victory. And at least in Southern California, I've noticed
that they've continued to rally. They've had some pretty large rallies,
especially for the pro life thing that happened recently, where
cities around the country, including San Francisco, had some pretty
(25:33):
alarmingly sized anti abortion rallies, and some of them, like
in San Francisco, you had some of the more extremest elements,
white supremacist elements showing up quite explicitly, quite proudly. And
here in southern California, I've seen that starting to pick
up again. It's almost building off of the momentum from
(25:54):
all these rallies, targeting drag shows, which have been excellent
networking opportunities for right wing groups to work with more
far right extremists and even about all out white supremacists.
Once they get into a groove together, even if these
groups don't always get along, they have a revolving door
of enemies, and if it's time to target somebody because
(26:14):
they think there's an advantage to it in the moment,
then they're going to do it. And right now it
does seem like reproductive rights is back in the crosshairs
alongside LGBTQ rights. Just a couple of weeks ago, there
was a rally in southern California outside of a outside
of a Walgreens shareholders meeting, where a lot of right
(26:35):
wing activists were marching through the hotel chanting that Walgreens
is killing people because they because you can get an
abortion fill through them. I think this has created a
very tenuous situation where there's always someone to go after.
If it's not planned parenthood this week, next week, go
after your local pharmacy, go after your local clinic, go
(26:57):
after your local doctor. The an abortion movement is very malleable,
it's very fluid, and right now they're taken whoever they
can get, and that includes a lot of openly radical
militant groups who they turn to as groups that can
do quote unquote security work, you know, because they're afraid
of the left coming and attacking them. The anti abortion
(27:18):
movement isn't sewing down as our guests from across the
country of discuss the more mainstream organizations with deep pockets
also aren't attempting to distance themselves from the street level
fascist groups flocking to right wing demonstrations, especially at a
time when far right violence is escalating across the country.
And our last segment, Iged correspondent Marcella speaks on recent
(27:39):
anti choice demonstrations which brought together both the mainstream and
the fringe, organized in part by progressive anti abortion Uprising,
which weaponizes feminists and progressive language against drug store giants
CBS and Walgreens in effort to stop them from selling
abortion medication. Anti abortion people protest it outside like CBS
on Walgreens. It's passed out a day like in multiple
(28:01):
places to prevent pharmacies from selling abortion pills. I'm honestly,
like really angry at this, not only because these people
are trying to make sure they completely takeaway our rights
to bodily autonomy, but because you're also making me have
to defend CVS and Walgreens. I've also thought about protesting
outside CBS and Walgreens, but not because I'm obsessed with
other people's to productive organs. I'm tired of them putting
everything I need behind a glass. Anyway, Like these abortion
(28:22):
protests outside CBS and Walgreens were organized by the Progressive
Anti Abortion Uprising. Yes, I will say that again, the
Progressive Anti Abortion Uprising PAAU, which claims to want to
dismantle the abortion industrial complex. Honestly, it sounds like the
pa you think that you can just add industrial complex
(28:43):
to something to make it sound bad, or they're just
trying to sound cool to make people forget that they
are fascists. Like one interesting thing about PAU is they
want to be so cool that their lead organizer, Lauren Handy,
calls herself a feminist. I honestly can't believe that I
have to say this, but being anti abortion immediately disqualifies
you from being a feminist. Fun fact about Laura in
(29:04):
Handy is that she randomly she didn't randomly. She was
caught with five fetuses in her apartment and was indicted
from blocking a clinic in Washington, DC in twenty and twenty.
So she's out here blocking clinics collecting fetuses just like
doing the worst. This is like just the tip of
the berg about how like these people are trying to
act like their freedom fighters. Well, the PAU spokesperson literally said,
(29:28):
and I quote, their vision to turn pharmacies into abortion businesses,
which will exploit and kill disproportionately low income people and
people of color for profit will be met with non
violent resistance at every turn. That's hilarious. These people are
literally trying to make fascism sound like freedom fighting. Like
if PAU actually cared about low income people and people
(29:48):
of color, they would be giving away abortion pills that
like every corner, not trying to stop people from buying them.
And also they'd be boycotting CBS on Walgreens for totally
different reasons. They wouldn't be boycotting Walgreens and CBS we're
trying to sell people abortion fills. What they'll be doing
is that there would be boycotting Walgreens and CBS. We're
putting toothpaste behind a lock glass, which makes it much
harder for poor people to get a five finger discount
(30:12):
on things that they need. That is going to do
it for us today. Thanks for tuning in once again.
This has been it's going down, occupying the offices of
it could happen here. Be sure to follow us online.
It's going down dot org, on Macedon at igd, Underscore
News Until next time. It could Happen Here as a
(30:33):
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It could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zonemedia dot
com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
Welcome back, Dick had happened here? Once again the folks
from It's going down or taking over the show? As
today we do a deep dive into how autonomous organizers
are pushing back against a wave of far right attacks
on reproductive freedom and autonomy across the United States. A
note to our listeners, this episode will include discussion on
both sexual and far right violence. I'm your host, Mike Andrews.
(00:28):
Let's get into it. In May of twenty twenty two,
Politico first reported on the historic league from the Supreme
Court about the overturning of Row versus Wade, the landmark
nineteen seventy three decision which ruled under the Fourteenth Amendment,
that a pregnant person has the right to privacy, including
the liberty to abort their fetus. In June of twenty
(00:49):
twenty two, the Dabb's Decisions struck down Row, ruling that
the Constitution does not guarantee a person the right to
an abortion, triggering a wave of state governments rolling abortion
rights and access for many. However, the fall of Row
only further cemented a lack of access to reproductive healthcare
has already been the norm for millions. As the Hill wrote, quote,
(01:11):
as of twenty twenty, six states had only one abortion
clinic each in eighty nine percent of America's counties had
no abortion clinic at all, the cumulative effect of decades
of restrictions authored by anti abortion lawmakers. This is not
to say that things haven't gotten worse. They have in
the months following the dabb's decision. In states like Ohio,
(01:31):
where access has been attacked, A rape survivor was forced
to travel out of state to find an abortion, while
local politicians, including the state's Republican attorney general, claimed on
Fox News that the story was totally fabricated. In other instances,
people in Ohio have been denied care even though they
faced potentially life threatening complications. In Texas, one woman nearly
(01:53):
died due to sepsis because she was initially barred access
to an abortion by doctors. And these are only some
of the stories that have made headlines. The deeper impact
on this countrywide attack and reproductive health has hit low
income and communities of color the hardest. A recent study
from the University of San Francisco found that quote a
third of American women of reproductive age now face excessive
(02:16):
travel times to obtain an abortion, while twice as many
are being forced to travel more than an hour to
reach an abortion provider. In short, attacks on abortion, coupled
with the already exploding wealth gap, lack of access to healthcare,
the rising cost of living, and the continuing COVID nineteen pandemic,
will only expand existing equalities, especially for people of color,
(02:38):
the disabled, and queer and trans folks. In particular, on
the legal front, some states have pushed to expand abortion access,
and many are challenging legal attacks in the courtroom. Minnesota,
for instance, most recently became the first state to enshrine
abortion as a right. Meanwhile, many continued to donate to
abortion funds and nonprofits like Planned Parenthood, or even launching
(03:00):
mobile clinics to provide care and areas hit the hardest
due to recent bands. But as our first two guests,
Beck's part of a clinic defense group in New York City,
in ashe an abortion doula in North Carolina, reported, many
autonomous organizers aren't putting their faith in the courts, the cops,
or the state. You know. Living in New York City,
(03:20):
abortion is legal, and it is legal before a row,
and it's been legal after row, but that doesn't really
necessarily mean anything kind of is what we've seen. So
one of the things that we've seen is we've seen
on anti abortion protesters and activists coming up from red
states to target blue states now and so we've definitely
seen their presence increasing outside of the clinic that we
defend and soho in Manhattan. And so that's I would say,
(03:43):
is one of the biggest things that we've seen is
that they really are targeting Blue states, are targeting New
York City. There I'm actively trying to recruit people to
come to New York City, is I think the biggest
thing that we've seen. And then also in New York City,
we've been struggling a lot with a really esculatory police presence.
I don't our clinice. So that's the other thing that
we're definitely really really struggling with is the response of
(04:04):
the state after Doubs. So the first thing that I
want folks to know is that people abortion haers, people
who might have abortions. Where I am in time and space,
they have always already been navigating some of these post
rorealities that a lot of folks are just getting hipped
to like after that fateful Friday in June last year.
(04:25):
And so I want to name here that we've always
had a seventy two hour waiting period in North Carolina,
which is one of the longest waiting periods in the country.
And there's a slew of other things that we find
both hostile and restrictive. And I'm using those words to
describe a situation, an ongoing situation, because these are the
(04:46):
words that are being used to describe North Carolina now
as we're seeing an influx of folks coming to North Carolina.
So I'm saying that for the folks who live here
always already like they've been dealing with a restrictive, hostile climate.
Becks just shared a little bit about like the presence
of anti abortion protesters, so we've always been dealing with that.
(05:10):
In twenty eighteen, the abortion clinic that I had two
abortions at in my life, they saw the most anti
abortion protesters in the Southeast, and we continue to see this.
We also continue to see as we see these anti
abortion protesters right a police presence, and we know or
I'm concerned about what that means for black folks having abortions,
(05:33):
for people who are undocumented and for people who otherwise
like don't want the police all up in their business.
In addition to what's changed since jobs are not change, right,
but change, we have semen influx of folks coming to
North Carolina from states where abortion is illegal or there
are bands kind of early ingestation, and we're seeing those
(05:55):
folks come to the clinics and access the services and
the support networks that we have here in North Carolina.
I think that one thing with the group that I
work with called ed VIC for Abortion Rights, one thing
that we've been working really hard on is not only
talking about abortion, not only talking about you know, going
beyond just legalizing it, but also really focusing on like
our communities and building mutual aid networks, building repro justice networks,
(06:17):
and also just working overall on like community defense. So
we work with a lot of mutual aid organizations all
over the city of New York. And that's one thing
that we're doing, like Ash was saying, is we're focusing on,
you know, how do these people who are outside of
our clinics are not only anti abortion, but they're also
anti LGBTQ. They are fascist. That is something that we
should be saying they are also pro police. None. None
of these things happen inside of a vacuum. They're all interconnected.
(06:40):
And I think that that's one thing that we really
really have to do is talk about how the issue
of abortion bridge is out to so many other things,
and we can't only fight one issue. We have to
fight all of them. But we also have to fight
the root of where these things are coming from. And
they're coming from this mass conservative movement that's been being
built since the nineteen seventies, you know, groups like Focus
on the Family, like the ETI Federalists. These groups have
(07:01):
so much influence in our society, and we need to
be going after all of it. We can't only be
going after you know, one tiny, you know, sector of
the massive problem, because like Ash said, it is all interconnected. Here,
I'm thinking about like some political education that needs to happen,
like and that is the framework and the theories of
(07:22):
reproductive Justice. I know that they recognize so many it
recognizes so many things. But one of the things that
grounds me that it recognizes that r J recognizes is
that dismantling white supremacy is key to achieving reproductive justice.
It also says it posits that we live interconnected lives
and not single issue lives. And it also for me,
(07:46):
this yields that, like we can't rely on the state
to provide what we need. I'm seeing abortion doulas, clinic escorts,
abortion funds, and other organizers and organizations really come together
to support people having abortions and resist criminalization and state
violence right now, and we need to see more of that.
You know, you talk about pro choice. I think it's
(08:08):
so whack, like the logics of pro choice. We need
to go further beyond the logics of pro choice and
understand that RJ says that there is no choice without access.
And furthermore, RJ posits that the key to controlling entire
communities is to controlling bodies. So if they're coming for
the trans people on their HRT and their access to
(08:30):
gender affirming and medical care, then they're gonna come for
everyone else. Then they're gonna come for the abortion avers.
They've been coming for the poor people. I think that,
like again, when we go back to that reproductive justice framework,
we can begin to like make these connections. And I'm
also saying this as an organizer, like reproductive justice is
(08:51):
my lane, but so as like environmental justice and so
as racial justice. And I'm on the front lines of
different movements, and I go back to this this framework
because it acknowledges that, like black people need an in too,
anti black racism, and we need an end to the
police and clean fucking water right now. I don't know
of a framework that says that, like we ought to
(09:13):
demand all of those things right fucking now, and that
we actually can't live self determined lives without all of
that shit. And so I'm ready to talk about RJ,
like I'm ready to do that political education. I think
it's ongoing work, and right like, you don't have to
be an abortion dou lah or a frontline organizer to
help someone get to their appointment, to fund an abortion,
(09:35):
to affirm someone's decision and support their decision to have
an abortion. And so we really need that, like we
need that vibe right now. We need people to show
up that way. I think that my biggest frustration with
Democrats is they've been telling us for years, like, oh,
you know, vote for us, vote for us. They've been
fundraising off of the issue of abortion for decades now.
They have done absolutely nothing, And I think that what
(09:55):
they've really done, is they've really made us, made us
as in the general like American populists feel as though
voting is the only way that we can change things,
and that voting is the only way that we can
like show our impact and like help our communities, when
in reality, it isn't. It's going out onto the streets.
It's also you know, doing abortion do the work. It's
also you know, going out defunding clinics. It's doing all
(10:17):
of this work. And we don't need the Democrats to
do that. And what we need to be doing is
we need to be talking about the state and how
we can go beyond the state. I also want to
say here, like fuck Row. Like Row is the kind
of legal infrastructure that made abortion possible, but it also
made it possible for like both the Democrats, the Republicans,
(10:37):
the Christian Evangelicals, anyone who was checking for it to
take abortion away. So like fuck Row. It also gave
us the trimester framework, which is like really whack. And
it also kind of made it more possible for the
states and the federal government to put in bands and
restrictions on abortion. That's something that we need to get
clear about as well. As we fight to decriminalize and
(10:59):
not legislate further abortion. Stay with us, it could happen here.
We'll return after these words from our sponsors. On July
twenty seventh, nineteen ninety six, Eric Rudoff said off a
(11:20):
nail bomb during the Summer Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia. The
explosion killed one person immediately. All over one hundred more
were horrifically injured. In the communicate, claiming responsibility for the bombing,
Rudoff denounced the Olympics, abortion and LGBTQ rights with talking
points that seemed ripped right out of Tucker Carlson's nightly
(11:41):
news headlines. He wrote, the world converged upon Atlanta to
celebrate the ideals of global socialism. The purpose of my
attack the Washington government sanctioning of abortion on demand. Along
with abortion, another assault upon the integrity of American society
is the considered effort to legitimize the practice of homosexuality,
(12:03):
whether it's gay marriage, homosexual adoption, hate crime laws including gays,
or the attempt to introduce a homosexual normalizing curriculum into
our schools. All of these efforts should be ruthlessly opposed.
The existence of our culture depends on it. Rudolph would
go on to carry out more deadly attacks against abortion
(12:24):
clinics in a queer nightclub, releasing communications under the banner
of the Army of God, a group which endorsed leaderless
resistance and was linked to the white supremaci Christian Identity
movement and the murder of multiple abortion providers. The Army
of God was just one formation that grew out of
Christian Identity, a mix of white supremacy and Christianity. The
(12:45):
priests that Jews were Satanic and people of color were
subhuman and needed to be destroyed in a racial holy war.
Christian identity adherents set up paramilitary compounds, Bible camps, radio stations,
and churches from the Aryan Nations to the Covenant of
the Sword in the Arm of the Lord, and they
helped usher in a wave of homegrown terrorist groups such
(13:07):
as The Order and individuals like Timothy. They carried out
the Oklahoma City bombing. Meanwhile, above ground, groups like Operation
Rescue cheered on the violence against abortion providers while organizing
mass protests at clinics with the aim of shutting them down.
In twenty fifteen, when a gunman killed three people in
a mass shooting at a clinic in Colorado Springs. The
(13:29):
far right anti abortion movement had carried out eight murders,
seventeen attempted murders, forty two bombings, in one hundred and
eighty six arsons, all targeted against abortion clinics and providers.
Wanted to know more about the history of far attacks
on abortion access if they were indeed rising in the
current post Stops period. We sat down with bullitsa Fowler
(13:50):
of the National Abortion Federation. Unfortunately, since abortion was legalized
with the versus Weight decision, there has been a really
coordinated campaign of harassment and violence to target abortion providers
and try to stop access to legal abortion. And we've
been tracking this since the late seventies. There have been
(14:15):
a number of escalating events, everything from clinic protests and
clinic blockades all the way up to arsons and murders
of providers just because they do this work. So when
we talk about this, it's very real, it's very real threats,
and it is really terrorism that's happening by a coordinated
(14:36):
group of people and individuals who really are aimed at
stopping any access to legal abortion care. So we definitely,
and have seen for a long time that there is
an overlap between the people that target abortion providers and
the people that are involved in other types of violent
and extremist movements, including white nationalists. We've known that for
(14:58):
a long time existed many years. In fact, in the eighties,
the KKK began creating one imposters listing the personal information
of abortion providers, and the first provider who was murdered,
doctor David Gunn, who was murdered in nineteen ninety three,
was murdered by someone who was a white supremacist who
had been mentored by someone who was a former KKK member,
(15:22):
And so we've seen the overlap of these groups, and
in the last couple of years we've seen that overlap
be more coordinated and more public. So on January sixth
at the insurrection, a lot of our members were watching
on TV and recognized people because they were the same
people that protest at their clinics. In fact, providers that
(15:44):
even noted that day of pulling in the parking lot
and not seeing their usual protesters and wondering what was
going on because they saw less people outside of clinics,
And we later found out it's because many of them
were at the Capitol, and a number of people who
are active the anti abortion movement have boasted about being
at the insurrection, posted video and pictures of themselves at
(16:06):
the insurrection, and so it's very clear to us and
we very much see that overlap. We also see more
more of these right wing groups actually showing up and
participating at anti abortion events, so attending some of the
marches around the country in a more visible way than
we've seen in the past. Sometimes these right wing groups
(16:27):
will do quote unquote security for the anti abortion movement,
so when they have people who are speaking or they're
holding large events to target providers, they'll get security assistance
from white nationalist groups. And so, you know, it's particularly
disturbing to see. It doesn't surprise us because we've been
(16:49):
we've known that there's an overlap in these groups for
a really long time. But as as we've seen in
recent years, as people seem to be more okay being
more visible about their membership in these groups or more
vocal about their hate, we're seeing it more publicly. The
anti abortion movement is not doing anything to distance themselves
(17:09):
from these groups. So since the leak happened, last May,
we immediately saw an increase in harassment and online posts
that were threatening toward abortion providers. Even though we got
a preview of the decision and we knew what was
coming and that it would lead to clinics closing, that
wasn't enough for some people. We saw calls for people
(17:32):
to go and burn clinics, or go and take matters
into their own hands and not wait for the decision,
to go and try and stop abortions from being provided
that moment, and so we track those types of online posts.
We saw a real spike in May and June around
the decision, and we also started immediately hearing from our
member clinics that they were seeing an increase in protesters
(17:55):
and increase in threats, and it increase in the intensity
and hostility of those activities, so more really aggressive protesters
that were touching patients and staff, yelling at patients and staff,
photographing patients and staff, and you know, since the decision,
we have seen a number of clinics close in places
that are considered more hostile to abortion rights. But we
(18:18):
know from our past experience that when a clinic closes,
the protesters don't just give up and go home. In
many cases, anti abortion individuals will travel the same paths
that patients are traveling, and they will go to other
states where abortion remains successible and target the clinics there.
So we are seeing an increase in activity in the
places where abortion is remaining legal and where patients are
(18:41):
going to get care. And we're still you know, we're
just now collecting the numbers for twenty twenty two, so
we don't we don't have those for a little bit,
but we do know anecdotally and what we're hearing from
members and what we're seeing on the ground is that
there is an increase in that activity. There have been
a few arsons this year. We're also seeing clinic invasions continue,
(19:01):
and these are instances where people might pose as patients.
In some cases, they go to a lot of work
to try and infiltrate the clinic and find out about
their practices for making appointments, and then they will pose
as patients, make fake appointments and try to get into
the clinic forcibly if they if they have to, and
(19:25):
then once they're inside they're harassing patients, they refuse to leave.
In some cases they hand out flowers or sing or
yell in California, they walked through the halls screaming the
name of the doctor, ordering the doctor to come out
and face them, and it was very traumatic for staff.
They didn't know if this person was armed or what
(19:46):
they were doing. And you know, they had patients in
procedure rooms with them or in counseling rooms, and they
were locking the door and sheltering in place, and it
was very frightening. And we continue to see these types
of invasions happen across the country. Ironically, however, laws passed
in the nineteen nineties designed to protect people seeking abortions
(20:06):
and reproductive healthcare have now been weaponized against those who
have been taking action in the wake of the Daub's decision,
most notably under the banner of Jane's Revenge, a moniker
used by anonymous activists taking action, usually in the form
were broken windows and graffiti against anti choice, crisis pregnancy
centers and beyond. As Natasha Leonard wrote in the Intercept,
(20:28):
Congress passed the Face Act in nineteen eighty four, owing
the assassinations and mass clinic blockades, making the physical obstruction
of clinics a federal offense. As well as threats of
force and violence against clinic workers and clinic property. In
its thirty years on the books has been used sparingly.
Now this laws being used to prosecute to reproductive rights
activists who allegedly spray painted the outside walls of misleading
(20:51):
and dangerous crisis pregnancy centers known as CPCs and now
face up to twelve years in prison for the graffiti.
This use of the ACE Act against those fighting to
protect reproductive freedom and autonomy by weaponizing laws supposedly aimed
at those threatening it mirrors the numerous domestic terrorism charges
lodged against forest defenders in Atlanta, made possible by a
(21:12):
bill in twenty seventeen following the massacre of nine black
parishioners by the white supremast. Dylan Roof stay with us,
it can happen here, will return after these words from
our sponsors. As the culture War is deepened on the
right and even mainstream GEOP leaders have embraced white nationalists
(21:33):
talking points, many openly neo Nazi and white supremise groups
have come to see the anti choice movement as a
lucrative recruiting ground in a point of engagement with the
wider right wing base. Again, we hear from clinic defender
Becks in New York, an abortion doula Ash in North Carolina.
In our case in New York City, the group that
we defend, the Clinic Front, is this Catholic group that
(21:55):
gets an armed escort from the NYPD. So that's one
thing that really scares me, you know, when we talk
about a far right is that the NYPD has been
aiding these far right groups and getting them escorts for
a very very long time. And so I think that
kind of like goes to a lot of the fears
that a lot of us have when it comes to
this kind of collaboration and the changing face of anti
abortion protesters. We already know down here that cops and
(22:18):
clan go hand in hand, and unfortunately, like newly white
radicalized I don't know if you can call them that,
but like politicized white women who want to defend clinics,
they saw they they realize these realities, like the cops
are not here to defend you or people who want
to have abortions, and we actually don't need the cops
(22:40):
to have abortions and to make reproductive justice a real
possibility in all of our lives. I'm thinking here also
about like the need to decriminalize abortion and not legalize
abortion again, as an abolitionist, as an abortion doula, and
as someone who's had abortions, I'm making these connect and
(23:00):
as a trans person. Right, I'm making these connections that
like the folks who are standing outside of abortion clinics,
the anti choice, the anti abortion folks, these are the
same people who are pro police people. These are the
same people who are racist in our communities, who are classist,
who are anti black, who are fascists, and furthermore, right,
(23:20):
like these people who stand outside of abortion clinics, they
are the same people perpetuating these rhetorics that like gay
people are groomers, but also that like critical race theory
for examples, shouldn't be taught in school. I am making
these connections, and I'm also going back to that reproductive
justice framework that reminds me that, like, what do we
(23:41):
have to do now is that we have to fight together,
and one of the ways we can do that is
by making these connections. Right, like these people are Christian evangelicals,
they are fascists. Explicitly, we need to say that, and
it behooves all of us to like, really fight together
along those lines. In the year since the attempted pro
(24:05):
Trump coups on January six, neo Nazis, white supremacists, and
Proud Boys have ramped up their presence at anti choice events.
The neo Nazi group Patriot Front has shut up to
march alongside various anti abortion groups, often to be bent
with handshakes from anti abortion activists and police escorts to
protect them from anti fascists. Several weeks ago, openly fascist
(24:27):
groups took part in the yearly Walk for Life rally
in San Francisco, California. US thousands took to the city
streets after being bust in from across the state. Marching
alongside them were Proud Boys decked out in your uniforms
and mass neo Nazis holding openly racist banners. Wanting to
know more about this continued crossover, we spoke with anti
fascist journalists Pshaw Singh based in southern California. In the
(24:50):
wake of the reversal of Rovy Way, there was big
spike in demonstrations from the right wing where they were
targeting clinics. They were targeting any kind of cool aboards
with any kind of reproductive health anything. They were doing
it for several months in places like California, where abortion
is still provided and still accessible. That makes a lot
(25:13):
of the anti abortion movement still feel like they're the
victim of something even though they just had this massive
political victory. And at least in Southern California, I've noticed
that they've continued to rally. They've had some pretty large rallies,
especially for the pro life thing that happened recently, where
cities around the country, including San Francisco, had some pretty
(25:33):
alarmingly sized anti abortion rallies, and some of them, like
in San Francisco, you had some of the more extremest elements,
white supremacist elements showing up quite explicitly, quite proudly. And
here in southern California, I've seen that starting to pick
up again. It's almost building off of the momentum from
(25:54):
all these rallies, targeting drag shows, which have been excellent
networking opportunities for right wing groups to work with more
far right extremists and even about all out white supremacists.
Once they get into a groove together, even if these
groups don't always get along, they have a revolving door
of enemies, and if it's time to target somebody because
(26:14):
they think there's an advantage to it in the moment,
then they're going to do it. And right now it
does seem like reproductive rights is back in the crosshairs
alongside LGBTQ rights. Just a couple of weeks ago, there
was a rally in southern California outside of a outside
of a Walgreens shareholders meeting, where a lot of right
(26:35):
wing activists were marching through the hotel chanting that Walgreens
is killing people because they because you can get an
abortion fill through them. I think this has created a
very tenuous situation where there's always someone to go after.
If it's not planned parenthood this week, next week, go
after your local pharmacy, go after your local clinic, go
(26:57):
after your local doctor. The an abortion movement is very malleable,
it's very fluid, and right now they're taken whoever they
can get, and that includes a lot of openly radical
militant groups who they turn to as groups that can
do quote unquote security work, you know, because they're afraid
of the left coming and attacking them. The anti abortion
(27:18):
movement isn't sewing down as our guests from across the
country of discuss the more mainstream organizations with deep pockets
also aren't attempting to distance themselves from the street level
fascist groups flocking to right wing demonstrations, especially at a
time when far right violence is escalating across the country.
And our last segment, Iged correspondent Marcella speaks on recent
(27:39):
anti choice demonstrations which brought together both the mainstream and
the fringe, organized in part by progressive anti abortion Uprising,
which weaponizes feminists and progressive language against drug store giants
CBS and Walgreens in effort to stop them from selling
abortion medication. Anti abortion people protest it outside like CBS
on Walgreens. It's passed out a day like in multiple
(28:01):
places to prevent pharmacies from selling abortion pills. I'm honestly,
like really angry at this, not only because these people
are trying to make sure they completely takeaway our rights
to bodily autonomy, but because you're also making me have
to defend CVS and Walgreens. I've also thought about protesting
outside CBS and Walgreens, but not because I'm obsessed with
other people's to productive organs. I'm tired of them putting
everything I need behind a glass. Anyway, Like these abortion
(28:22):
protests outside CBS and Walgreens were organized by the Progressive
Anti Abortion Uprising. Yes, I will say that again, the
Progressive Anti Abortion Uprising PAAU, which claims to want to
dismantle the abortion industrial complex. Honestly, it sounds like the
pa you think that you can just add industrial complex
(28:43):
to something to make it sound bad, or they're just
trying to sound cool to make people forget that they
are fascists. Like one interesting thing about PAU is they
want to be so cool that their lead organizer, Lauren Handy,
calls herself a feminist. I honestly can't believe that I
have to say this, but being anti abortion immediately disqualifies
you from being a feminist. Fun fact about Laura in
(29:04):
Handy is that she randomly she didn't randomly. She was
caught with five fetuses in her apartment and was indicted
from blocking a clinic in Washington, DC in twenty and twenty.
So she's out here blocking clinics collecting fetuses just like
doing the worst. This is like just the tip of
the berg about how like these people are trying to
act like their freedom fighters. Well, the PAU spokesperson literally said,
(29:28):
and I quote, their vision to turn pharmacies into abortion businesses,
which will exploit and kill disproportionately low income people and
people of color for profit will be met with non
violent resistance at every turn. That's hilarious. These people are
literally trying to make fascism sound like freedom fighting. Like
if PAU actually cared about low income people and people
(29:48):
of color, they would be giving away abortion pills that
like every corner, not trying to stop people from buying them.
And also they'd be boycotting CBS on Walgreens for totally
different reasons. They wouldn't be boycotting Walgreens and CBS we're
trying to sell people abortion fills. What they'll be doing
is that there would be boycotting Walgreens and CBS. We're
putting toothpaste behind a lock glass, which makes it much
harder for poor people to get a five finger discount
(30:12):
on things that they need. That is going to do
it for us today. Thanks for tuning in once again.
This has been it's going down, occupying the offices of
it could happen here. Be sure to follow us online.
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News Until next time. It could Happen Here as a
(30:33):
production of cool Zone Media. Well more podcasts from cool
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