September 25, 2025 • 29 mins
Andrew is joined by James to discuss recent US attacks on Venezuelan boats, and how the Prime Minister of Trinidad’s full throated support puts the small Caribbean nation at risk.
Sources:
https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/pm-us-military-should-kill-them-all-violently-6.2.2390747.79d6204d7c
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jel4gyezo
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media, good day, gooday, and welcomed it could happen here.
I'm Andrew Sage andrewism on YouTube and I'm here.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
With James Stout. For those of you wondering what my
last name.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Is, Hello, Hello, And for those who couldn't tell about
my accent or maybe don't recognize it, I'm from Trinado Tobego.
But when and based and you may or may not
have seen Tronad's name being called up in JD. Van's
and Marco Rubio's mouths deately, particularly with the moves of
the US has been making in the Caribbean Sea as
(00:37):
of late. So to provide a little context on the
inciting incident of this episode, the current Prime Minister of
Trinado Diego came PUSA professor expressed very passionate support for
the US's recent move on an alleged Venezuela based drug vessel.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
I say alleged.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Because no proof has been provided that it was a
drug vessel or anything of that nature that the United
States struck. The Prime Minister said, and I quote that
she has no sympathy for traffickers and at the US
should kill them all violently.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Jesus Christ for those.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I mean, most people do not know much about Trinitian politics.
I don't expect them to. Our current prime minister she
won this year actually, and she kind of carried on
our trend of incumbent losing the elections that took place,
you know, post COVID lockdown twenty twenty era. So the
previous prime minister was Prime Minister, doctor Keith Rowley.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
He was prime minister for like ten years.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
He became prime Minister after she lost her last stint
as prime minister. Because she's kind of a mess in
a couple of different ways. I mean, both parties are
pretty corrupt, but they're corrupt and incompetent in some very
critical ways.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Corrupt and racists and couple of issues. That trend continues
with her new candidacy. You know, she is not only
feeling the country in some crucial ways. You know, she
canceled our Independence Day celebrations. She fired like thousands of.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Workers from a local agency that's responsible for landscaping around
the country basically you know, cutting grass and clear entry
and that sort of thing. Fired like thousands of them, right,
and all the entire country is overgrown and all those
people have like like right before their children have to
go to school. You know, they had no income to
(02:37):
support them. So there's like a lot of cruelty, a lot
of corruption, a lot of incompetence, and in this particular case,
diplomatic carelessness, recklessness because she goes and she says this
despite the fact that not only the US violated law
international law, but also we are small. You may not
(02:58):
be able to see train ad in a lot of
maps because we are small. You know, we may be
one of the more populated Caribbean countries where we are
still small. Venezuela is our closest neighbor, and she has
been exceedingly irresponsible in the ways that she's approached Venezuela
because in the previous administration actually had an agreement with
(03:21):
Venezuela regarding the extraction of their fossil fuels in the
waters that are between Trinidad and Venezuela. We had to
get permission from the United States to get into that
agreement with Venezuela because Venezuela is currently under sanction, and
for the longest time, Trinid has had to walk this
sort of tight rope of playing nice with both the
(03:44):
US and Venezuela. She's basically come in guns blazon to
make state months that appear to be openly aggressive towards Venezuela,
towards Venezuelan sovereignty, and so on. Now, her reasoning is
that Trinidad has been ravaged by a lot of violence
and addiction that have been caused by these drug cartails
(04:07):
coming from South America, including Venezuela. This is a very
real issue, the illegal gun and drug and human trafficking
that takes place between South America and Triniad. We are
tranship one point for that sort of activity, and that
kind of thing brings violence.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
The USUO is that while she may.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Be able to say things like make God bless and
protect the members of the US military, the US and
the US military are in part responsible for the violence
that is ravaged Latin America. But it's also not even
particularly interested. Regardless of what their words may say, they're
not particularly interested in dealing with the drug issue. At
(04:46):
the end of the day, it really comes down to
regime change and a desire to.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Control Venezuela's resources.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
But let me take it back for a moment and
provide a longer history of what's going on right. The
states became independent in seventeen seventy six. You know, Trinidad
became a colony of the UK in seventeen ninety seven,
not long after that. Because prior to being under the UK,
Triniad was under the Spanish, and while being under the
(05:16):
Spanish were settled by French settlers, so it was like
Spanish laws French settlers.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And then later on UK governance. And so the War
of eighteen twelve.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Which is you know, the war took place between the
US and the UK, led to some African Americans siding
with the UK and exchange for emancipation and in exchange
for their services in that war.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
That group of people which became.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
None of the Americans were resettled in South Trinidad and
actually descended from some of them allegedly.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So there is this history of.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Exchange taking place between the US and that.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
During World War Two, America had military bases established in Triniad.
We had Wall of Field which was commission in nineteen
forty one and the Chagrama's Naval Base which was fully
operational nineteen forty three, and that provided strategic naval and
air facilities in the Caribbean thanks to the Destroyers for
Bases agreement with the British. The British got destroyers and
(06:24):
the US got bases in the British colonies. Now, thankfully
the base was scale back and eventually decommissioned and return
into Trinantway was controlled by nineteen sixty three, but that
took a lot of protest and margin to accomplish. It
was a whole thing or trying to get Yankee out
of Trinidad. Yankee did provide some benefits to Trinidad in
(06:47):
terms of establishing infrastructure for highways and that sort of thing,
but there was also a not so positive social.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Impact of the American presence. You know.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
One Cllipseion known as the Mighty Sparrow sang in a
song called Gene and Dina that basically the American presence
funded a lot of households due to prostitution well, and
the song was basically about how Jane and Dina had
to go and find other work now that the Americans
(07:19):
were leaving. So, after the failure of the West Indies
Federation and the independence of countries like Jamaica and Trinan
Tobago from the UK, the location of the former military base.
Shagarammas also ended up becoming the temporary location of the
capital of the short lived Westerndies Federation. After the West
(07:42):
Indies Federation broke apart, Shagrammas became the place where the
Treaty of Chagaramas was signed between the newly independent countries
of trinid Tobago and Jamaica and so forth, which established
Cara con the Caribbean Community and Common Market in nineteen
seventy three. Caracorm will come up Laza. Cara Coma is
kind of like if the EU was like entirely toothless
(08:07):
and didn't really do much of anything. It's like a
nice idea of trying to get a bit of a
regional collaboration and inspiration and trade and movement. But it's
still more expensive to go between Irelands than it is
to go from an island to the US. So Caracoma
hasn't exactly succeeded in facilitating Ireland movement thus far. But
(08:31):
Karakome will come up las on right. Trying to Bago
quiet independence in nineteen sixty two. We became a republic
in nineteen seventy six, and we were under the Prime
ministership of doctor Eric Williams from nineteen sixty two to
(08:54):
nineteen eighty one. Now doctor Eric Williams, you know, was
our first prime minister, and so he's respect in that regard.
He also wrote Capitalism and Slavery, which was a really
impactful piece of literature on the you know, role of
capitalism in the abolition of slavery, or rather the economic
motivations for the abolition of slavery as opposed to the
(09:16):
claimed moral virtue of the British Empire in abolish and
slavery when.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
It did right, right.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
So he did some good academic work and you know,
he was instrumental in the establishment of Trinantibago was an
independent country. But he also suppressed the black power movements
that took place a little while after we became independent
because of his failures. He also banned the Trinadian born
American immigrant commentare otherwise known as totally Carmichael, which is
(09:43):
like a world renowned socialist and pan aganist.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So, through the seventies we had an oil boom and
we became really really industrialized.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
We had another boom in two thousands, and.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Unlike other Cribean countries, we didn't have to be dependent
on tourism, and so we ended up going a different
developmental direction. The thing about the oil booms is they
really had more to do with sitting happenings in the
Middle East than really anything that we did. You know,
the oil room just kind of fell in our lapse
in that way. Right nineteen eighty three, there was an
(10:15):
invasion of Grenada by the United States after Maurice Bishop's
who and the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States Dominika, Barbados
and Jamaica called for the US to come an assist
in devon with this Marxist Leninist getting power in Grenada,
while Trance, Tobago, the UK, and Kanada criticized the invasion.
(10:38):
It was a violation of international law according to the
UN General Assembly, but as usual, the law doesn't really
apply to the US, so nothing really came out of that.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Otherwise, the relation between.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
The US and Trinanto Bago has been you know, we
have a lot of trade. You know, we have a
large diaspora in the US. There's a lot of travel
between the countries. Most of our tourism comes from the US.
We have a lot of American based oil and gas
companies established in Trinidad, and our whole consumerist culture is
(11:13):
basically a copy in many ways of what the US does.
When they sneeze, we catch a cool as the saying goes, Yeah,
I know, I'm establishing a lot of context, but it's
together an idea of how we are where we are
right now. Right, So, next to do or to Trinad, we
have Venezuela, and we really had this sort of diplomatic
(11:36):
relationship going on with Maduro and the USA at the
same time under the former Prime Minister, doctor Keith Roudi,
who was of the same party as our.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Fust prime minister, doctor RK. Williams.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Right with the issues taking place in Venezuela right now,
there's been a large influx of migrants from Venezuela living
in Trinato Bago, right, well, mainly Triniad. Yeah, right, I
have a lot of Venezuelans now live in Trinad, some
of them legally, some of them illegally. Prior to that
recent wave, and by recent I'm talking like twenty sixteen,
(12:10):
twenty seventeen. Prior to that wave, we had Venezuelans in
trond that and we had Trinadians in Venezuela because you.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Know we're neighbors, right, it's close.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
You know, see, you had Trinadians involved in the mining
sector in Venezuela. You had Venezuelans involved in the cucoa
plantations in Trinidad.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
So we've always been a very.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Mixed up group, right right, And this idea of strict
border control between the countries is a very recent, politically
motivated situation. Now with everything going on in Latin America
thanks to the US intervention and the US is constantly
failing war on drugs, we have a lot of violence
(12:52):
passing between our territories, you know, guns, drugs, human trafficking,
as I mentioned. Yeah, and then Venezuela now is I
mean their hands are not clean. I'm not saying any
country's hands are cleaning this. I'm not trying to pain
into good guy bad guy ecotomy. You know, Venezuela is
still whole and strong to this claim that they have
from since before their independence, that like more than half
(13:18):
of Guyana actually belongs to them. Guyana, by the way,
is an English speaking Caribbean culture country border in Venezuela,
Surinam and Brazil. So Guyana recently explored and discovered a
bunch of offshore reserves, which you know they're really excited
(13:41):
to capitalize upon. And you know they have a lot
of deals and agreements taking place with that is concerned
all of a suchen. Venezuela's like, you know that piece
of land that we've long been saying is ours, Yeah,
that that really is ours. And they started, you know,
they're putting out maps claiming that most of Guyana is
actually Venezuela and all these different So it's a very
(14:01):
it's a very threatening situation because Venezuela is a military
power in its own right, right Guyana, Trinidad, we don't
have much military prowess. So in a sense, I understand
why both Trinidad and Guyana are cozying up with the
US right now. But at the same time, this recent
administration's cozying up has not been the most tactful, you know,
(14:25):
because we do have a diplomatic approach that has worked
well for US for a very long time. Now, the
argument could be made that maybe that diplomatic response, a
diplomatic balance cannot be maintained forever. Our you know, neutrality
cannot persist as things are heating up in the region.
(14:47):
But we had an opportunity to respond carefully, to respond
in a measured fashion to the US's recent move with
bombing the alleged drug vote, and we did not do that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, that's a pretty squndid chance to just like say,
you know, we should respect international law here and and
you know, like the easiest thing to say would be like,
there's a set of prostigious for doing this, we could
follow them. Yeah, it's not hard to say that.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
That that that deal we had with Venezuela, that was
a deal that we were able to negotiate Underbider. That
was the deal that when Trump came into power, he
just took back. He was like, nah, y'all can't do
that anymore. So with Trump going and this either with
US or against US, kind of direction, that calls for
extra you know care and you know you kind of
(15:38):
dealing with a bomb that you're.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Trying to work around, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
But in the same year that Trump got elected, Camera
Pasada Prossessor, our current prime minister, got elected. You know,
she's known for being reckless, she's known for being a
bit of a drunkard. She's passionately pro Trump. She was
a COVID conspiracist. In the vein of one of her
famous coats is sunlight will kill Covid. She's passionately pro us,
(16:08):
passionately anti Murduru, passionately racist, and very much anti cara Com. Okay,
right now, there's a bit of a history there because
Trinid and Guyana two Cribean countries with very large East
Indian populations, as in Indians from India. Yeah, when the
(16:28):
Western News Federation was getting it start, both Guyana and
Trinidad's Indian populations had the concern that, considering the rest
of the Caribbean as black majority, that they will not
be adequately represented in a West Indies federation. And so
that sort of opposition to that level of regional unity
(16:49):
seems to have persisted within some circles of in East
Indian or Indocribbean politics.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Okay, interesting, not all.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Right, but some seem to have an opposition to too
much Caracom involvement because they feel that their voice is
we drowned out by black people. And I mean there's
a lot of anti blackness in that community, but that
is not the subject of this particular episode. So that
sort of opposition to the West in these federation seems
(17:19):
to have carried over intopposition towards Caracom. And when there
was loading out among P and M supporters, which is
the party of Dr Rowley and Doctor Williams, as well
as something parts momentums taking place, Camela ended up coming
into power, right, And when she came into power.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
She's making these moves, making these statements.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
And disregarding cara Com and disregarding cara Comm's opinion, disregarding
cara comm involvement in Trindad's moves and decisions.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
As a small country. Cara Com is supposed.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
To be our way of beefing up our voice on
the international stage. And she basically saying Bun that you know,
we will do our own thing, right. Yeah, Well, I
forgot to mention another thing about Kamala, just for a
bit of context. Cambridge Analytica came into Trinidad and basically
(18:16):
ran an experiment using our elections to test out some
new strategies they ended up taking into the US. Right,
they practiced their electoral manipulation in Trinidad, which is how
Kamla won in the first time she was elected back
in twenty ten twenty fifteen. It was through collaboration with Cambridgealytica.
(18:39):
So again yet another connection between the US and Trinidad
for better and for weeks.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, So what's happening now is that you know, on
the second or September, the US bombed per Rgue and
claim to kill either from people and claimed that.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
It was a drug boat, despite the fact that they
haven't provided any proof that the footage was extremely grainy,
and even if they did have proof that it was
a drug boat. Summary execution on the High C's is
not exactly in line with international law, right right. If
these are quote unquote violent drug traffickers who are killing
(19:24):
people and do not these ridiculous things, you're supposed to
bring them in. You're supposed to interrogate them, You're supposed
to go through a certain procedure.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Right. Yeah. All the smoke and mirrors about.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Drugs and fighting drugs and all these different things, it
really is that smoking mirrors, because if it was about that,
they would be trying to get information to target the
heart of the operation.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
What the US is doing right now is flexing.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Right, Yeah, it's flexing their muscles in the region to
show what it is willing to do. It's trying to
poke and prod Venezuela corresponding kind so that it has
the excuse that needs or they further excuse to intervene.
There was another strike, another boat bombing on the fifteenth
of September, and there was another strike on the nineteenth
(20:14):
of September against another boat and it's a very very
worrying place to be and time to be alive. Right,
I would say, you know, we have Guyana as a player.
You know, they're still working with US world companies. They
collaborate with the US. They have this territorial anxiety with
(20:36):
regards to Venezuela, and they're part of Cara Com. Guyana's
part of Cara Coom trying to you know, work it
out through that channel and through other channels.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Venezuela, in response to.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Camera's energy, has basically put out stepmns talking about hey
this camera laity kind of crazy or show about that
because if any US missile comes out to Turndad, we
are responding to Trinidad.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Right, Trinidad is like not the same as the US, right,
like that, it's not like mutually assured destruction exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So she is, you know, speaking very recklessly and in
the meantime, the Venezuela's saying in response, you know, if
any sort of US incursion is launched out of Trinidad,
which she invited by the way, she said, he US
could based whatever they want and here if they want
to be a standing ready we right. I don't know
where she got this WII from, but she's saying, oh, yeah,
(21:32):
they could come and they could you know, launch stuff
from here. And Venezuela's like, you're talking kind of crazy
right now. You should care about your citizens because we
know your citizens don't like what you're doing, So why
are you doing this kind of thing? Yeah, And it's
bigger than just Venezuela love the US and Trinidad, because
Venezuela is also aligned with Russia. Right, it's I believe
(21:54):
Russia's only ally in the Western hemisphere.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
And while the drug is and the CRIMESU is a
significant concern, most of the drugs are coming from Columbia
in the first place, which the US is not currently targeting.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And at the end of the day, as I mentioned earlier,
it seems to be coming down to regime change and
resources and the control of Venezuela's resources. You know, we
are now in a situation where our fishermen are having
to stay home out of fail oh geez, that their
fishing boats could be struck out of the water. Yeah, yeah,
(22:32):
you know, we are in a situation where Camera's fan
base is just as Trumpian and cultish as the Marca
based seemingly seems to be perfectly fine with what's going on,
although in some ways I think that that might even
be astroturfed or inflated artificially, because there was recently an
exposa that determined a lot of the pro unc which
(22:56):
is Camera's party, the pro unc pro Kamela buzz that
occurs on social media. It's bot driven, Like you go
into these profiles and their bots just you know, fake names,
fake profer pictures, ai posts.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh geez. Yeah, yeah, it's just entirely fabricated.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
This is also at a time when the US is
building a massive embassy in our country, when cameras seemingly
open in the floodgates to military collaboration with the US,
where we are dealing with our own economic wos and
crime wars and so on. And you know, we also
have the largest Chinese embassy in the region, and we
(23:36):
have a lot of collab with China. We recently made
moves to recognize Palestine, with a Palestinian diplomat now reside
in the country. It feels like we are putting ourselves
in a very risky position and whether or not we
could have done more or less to get out of
(23:57):
this position, you know, considering the US has its backyard
policy with regard to the rest of the Americas, with
regard to the fact that Trump has created this Department
of War that the US seems to be feeling around
as a Dian empire. Does the fact that the criptman
has been called out so frequently with violence in an
(24:19):
effort to manufacture consent for what seems to be coming next,
With the fact that there was a field intervention to
overthrow Maduro in the past, known as Operation Gideon, right
back in twenty twenty, all this has me a but stressed.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean, there was a particularly insane attempt to
throw Madeira in twenty twenty, right, the Silver Core thing.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, yeah, they had this American security firm and some
Venezuelan diccidents just they tried to infiltam as well by
see and basically as soon as they landed, they got arrested.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, yeah, I think some of them got detained by
Venezuelan fishermen who realized it only had BB guns. It
sucks that, Like having spent time in Venezuela and with
Venezuelan people a lot, you know, for years now, it's
Venezuelan people who are going to pay the price for
all of this, right, like it's not and potentially people
(25:18):
in Trinidad and Tobago as well, Like they very clearly
do not want Maduro to be running their country, right.
It saw that in the election, and we saw that
in the protests after election. They have every reason to
want to leave their country and go somewhere safe, but
that's not possible for many of them.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, there's a lot of
Venezuelans in Trinidad right now. Yeah, so any moves that
advanced with us make, and they're obviously going to make
with consideration to the fact that they have their own
people Internet as well.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, exactly, And like they're being demonized even though they've
done everything they can to separate themselves from Maduro and
like they are being.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, there's unfortunately a lot of enophobia in Trinidad.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, it's really sad, like and we see it here too, right,
this allegation that they're all gang members, which is like,
if we think that gang violence is bad in Venezuela
and in parts of Venezuela is bad, then surely it
would make sense to people who don't want any part
in that might leave and go somewhere else. Yeah, and
rather than supporting them, we're just we're just killing like
(26:20):
the the lowest tier people. Rather like even if we
entertain the idea that the boat could have been carrying drugs,
and when we put aside the fact that that hasn't
been proven or the boats plural the people driving the
boats and other people like making the calls here, Yeah,
they're the people being.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Killed exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
It's the same principle with all these these these drug
bus and and and gang bus that take place in Dronade.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
You know, they go and they roll in and.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
They arrest these small fries, but the big bosses call
them the shots unharmed. Yeah, you know, the multinational criminal
lambios that aren't moving the people and moving the drugs,
moving the guns in the region, they're untouched.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, And like even the Maduro's to nephews, like they
were released after they were detained for trying to run
drugs via Haiti, right like, like you say, the people
making the real decisions are largely insulated from all this.
It's working people in Venezuela who, like, they don't have
(27:26):
other opportunities, right Like, I have heard the most disheartening stories,
especially for Venezuelan fishermen, right Like, their economy is so
bad that they are not able to put fuel in
their boats. It wouldn't be economical to put fuel in
their fishing boats. Even if they caught a full load
of fish, they wouldn't be able. No one has any
money to buy the fish at a high price, so
(27:50):
they can't pay for the film. This is a country
which sits on a massive oil reserve, but yeah, yeah,
people can't afford to put fuel in their fishing boats.
Like you know, these people are victims of a system
that has left them with very few opportunities, and the
way we're responding is by killing them and by destabilizing
a whole part of the world that no one, no
one asked for this there, you know, apart from apparently
(28:12):
your Prime minister.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, so I mean This was a very rambly episode,
more ambley than my usual, But I just wanted to
get the word out on what's going on in my
corner of the globe, to let the Americans and aodiance
know to you know, please do what you can to
stand to speak out against this American intervention.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
YEA, educate yourself from what's going on. For trainees who
may be in the audience, you know, probably hunkered down
and have a crisis bag or emergency bag set up
if worst comes to us and everyone else, really just
getting knowledge and do what you can.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
In your area to disrupt this machine. Yeah, yeah, that's
it for me, All powers, all the people, peace.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
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Also media, good day, gooday, and welcomed it could happen here.
I'm Andrew Sage andrewism on YouTube and I'm here.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
With James Stout. For those of you wondering what my
last name.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Is, Hello, Hello, And for those who couldn't tell about
my accent or maybe don't recognize it, I'm from Trinado Tobego.
But when and based and you may or may not
have seen Tronad's name being called up in JD. Van's
and Marco Rubio's mouths deately, particularly with the moves of
the US has been making in the Caribbean Sea as
(00:37):
of late. So to provide a little context on the
inciting incident of this episode, the current Prime Minister of
Trinado Diego came PUSA professor expressed very passionate support for
the US's recent move on an alleged Venezuela based drug vessel.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
I say alleged.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Because no proof has been provided that it was a
drug vessel or anything of that nature that the United
States struck. The Prime Minister said, and I quote that
she has no sympathy for traffickers and at the US
should kill them all violently.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Jesus Christ for those.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I mean, most people do not know much about Trinitian politics.
I don't expect them to. Our current prime minister she
won this year actually, and she kind of carried on
our trend of incumbent losing the elections that took place,
you know, post COVID lockdown twenty twenty era. So the
previous prime minister was Prime Minister, doctor Keith Rowley.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
He was prime minister for like ten years.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
He became prime Minister after she lost her last stint
as prime minister. Because she's kind of a mess in
a couple of different ways. I mean, both parties are
pretty corrupt, but they're corrupt and incompetent in some very
critical ways.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Corrupt and racists and couple of issues. That trend continues
with her new candidacy. You know, she is not only
feeling the country in some crucial ways. You know, she
canceled our Independence Day celebrations. She fired like thousands of.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Workers from a local agency that's responsible for landscaping around
the country basically you know, cutting grass and clear entry
and that sort of thing. Fired like thousands of them, right,
and all the entire country is overgrown and all those
people have like like right before their children have to
go to school. You know, they had no income to
(02:37):
support them. So there's like a lot of cruelty, a lot
of corruption, a lot of incompetence, and in this particular case,
diplomatic carelessness, recklessness because she goes and she says this
despite the fact that not only the US violated law
international law, but also we are small. You may not
(02:58):
be able to see train ad in a lot of
maps because we are small. You know, we may be
one of the more populated Caribbean countries where we are
still small. Venezuela is our closest neighbor, and she has
been exceedingly irresponsible in the ways that she's approached Venezuela
because in the previous administration actually had an agreement with
(03:21):
Venezuela regarding the extraction of their fossil fuels in the
waters that are between Trinidad and Venezuela. We had to
get permission from the United States to get into that
agreement with Venezuela because Venezuela is currently under sanction, and
for the longest time, Trinid has had to walk this
sort of tight rope of playing nice with both the
(03:44):
US and Venezuela. She's basically come in guns blazon to
make state months that appear to be openly aggressive towards Venezuela,
towards Venezuelan sovereignty, and so on. Now, her reasoning is
that Trinidad has been ravaged by a lot of violence
and addiction that have been caused by these drug cartails
(04:07):
coming from South America, including Venezuela. This is a very
real issue, the illegal gun and drug and human trafficking
that takes place between South America and Triniad. We are
tranship one point for that sort of activity, and that
kind of thing brings violence.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
The USUO is that while she may.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Be able to say things like make God bless and
protect the members of the US military, the US and
the US military are in part responsible for the violence
that is ravaged Latin America. But it's also not even
particularly interested. Regardless of what their words may say, they're
not particularly interested in dealing with the drug issue. At
(04:46):
the end of the day, it really comes down to
regime change and a desire to.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Control Venezuela's resources.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
But let me take it back for a moment and
provide a longer history of what's going on right. The
states became independent in seventeen seventy six. You know, Trinidad
became a colony of the UK in seventeen ninety seven,
not long after that. Because prior to being under the UK,
Triniad was under the Spanish, and while being under the
(05:16):
Spanish were settled by French settlers, so it was like
Spanish laws French settlers.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And then later on UK governance. And so the War
of eighteen twelve.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Which is you know, the war took place between the
US and the UK, led to some African Americans siding
with the UK and exchange for emancipation and in exchange
for their services in that war.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
That group of people which became.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
None of the Americans were resettled in South Trinidad and
actually descended from some of them allegedly.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So there is this history of.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Exchange taking place between the US and that.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
During World War Two, America had military bases established in Triniad.
We had Wall of Field which was commission in nineteen
forty one and the Chagrama's Naval Base which was fully
operational nineteen forty three, and that provided strategic naval and
air facilities in the Caribbean thanks to the Destroyers for
Bases agreement with the British. The British got destroyers and
(06:24):
the US got bases in the British colonies. Now, thankfully
the base was scale back and eventually decommissioned and return
into Trinantway was controlled by nineteen sixty three, but that
took a lot of protest and margin to accomplish. It
was a whole thing or trying to get Yankee out
of Trinidad. Yankee did provide some benefits to Trinidad in
(06:47):
terms of establishing infrastructure for highways and that sort of thing,
but there was also a not so positive social.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Impact of the American presence. You know.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
One Cllipseion known as the Mighty Sparrow sang in a
song called Gene and Dina that basically the American presence
funded a lot of households due to prostitution well, and
the song was basically about how Jane and Dina had
to go and find other work now that the Americans
(07:19):
were leaving. So, after the failure of the West Indies
Federation and the independence of countries like Jamaica and Trinan
Tobago from the UK, the location of the former military base.
Shagarammas also ended up becoming the temporary location of the
capital of the short lived Westerndies Federation. After the West
(07:42):
Indies Federation broke apart, Shagrammas became the place where the
Treaty of Chagaramas was signed between the newly independent countries
of trinid Tobago and Jamaica and so forth, which established
Cara con the Caribbean Community and Common Market in nineteen
seventy three. Caracorm will come up Laza. Cara Coma is
kind of like if the EU was like entirely toothless
(08:07):
and didn't really do much of anything. It's like a
nice idea of trying to get a bit of a
regional collaboration and inspiration and trade and movement. But it's
still more expensive to go between Irelands than it is
to go from an island to the US. So Caracoma
hasn't exactly succeeded in facilitating Ireland movement thus far. But
(08:31):
Karakome will come up las on right. Trying to Bago
quiet independence in nineteen sixty two. We became a republic
in nineteen seventy six, and we were under the Prime
ministership of doctor Eric Williams from nineteen sixty two to
(08:54):
nineteen eighty one. Now doctor Eric Williams, you know, was
our first prime minister, and so he's respect in that regard.
He also wrote Capitalism and Slavery, which was a really
impactful piece of literature on the you know, role of
capitalism in the abolition of slavery, or rather the economic
motivations for the abolition of slavery as opposed to the
(09:16):
claimed moral virtue of the British Empire in abolish and
slavery when.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
It did right, right.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
So he did some good academic work and you know,
he was instrumental in the establishment of Trinantibago was an
independent country. But he also suppressed the black power movements
that took place a little while after we became independent
because of his failures. He also banned the Trinadian born
American immigrant commentare otherwise known as totally Carmichael, which is
(09:43):
like a world renowned socialist and pan aganist.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So, through the seventies we had an oil boom and
we became really really industrialized.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
We had another boom in two thousands, and.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Unlike other Cribean countries, we didn't have to be dependent
on tourism, and so we ended up going a different
developmental direction. The thing about the oil booms is they
really had more to do with sitting happenings in the
Middle East than really anything that we did. You know,
the oil room just kind of fell in our lapse
in that way. Right nineteen eighty three, there was an
(10:15):
invasion of Grenada by the United States after Maurice Bishop's
who and the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States Dominika, Barbados
and Jamaica called for the US to come an assist
in devon with this Marxist Leninist getting power in Grenada,
while Trance, Tobago, the UK, and Kanada criticized the invasion.
(10:38):
It was a violation of international law according to the
UN General Assembly, but as usual, the law doesn't really
apply to the US, so nothing really came out of that.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Otherwise, the relation between.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
The US and Trinanto Bago has been you know, we
have a lot of trade. You know, we have a
large diaspora in the US. There's a lot of travel
between the countries. Most of our tourism comes from the US.
We have a lot of American based oil and gas
companies established in Trinidad, and our whole consumerist culture is
(11:13):
basically a copy in many ways of what the US does.
When they sneeze, we catch a cool as the saying goes, Yeah,
I know, I'm establishing a lot of context, but it's
together an idea of how we are where we are
right now. Right, So, next to do or to Trinad, we
have Venezuela, and we really had this sort of diplomatic
(11:36):
relationship going on with Maduro and the USA at the
same time under the former Prime Minister, doctor Keith Roudi,
who was of the same party as our.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Fust prime minister, doctor RK. Williams.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Right with the issues taking place in Venezuela right now,
there's been a large influx of migrants from Venezuela living
in Trinato Bago, right, well, mainly Triniad. Yeah, right, I
have a lot of Venezuelans now live in Trinad, some
of them legally, some of them illegally. Prior to that
recent wave, and by recent I'm talking like twenty sixteen,
(12:10):
twenty seventeen. Prior to that wave, we had Venezuelans in
trond that and we had Trinadians in Venezuela because you.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Know we're neighbors, right, it's close.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
You know, see, you had Trinadians involved in the mining
sector in Venezuela. You had Venezuelans involved in the cucoa
plantations in Trinidad.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
So we've always been a very.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Mixed up group, right right, And this idea of strict
border control between the countries is a very recent, politically
motivated situation. Now with everything going on in Latin America
thanks to the US intervention and the US is constantly
failing war on drugs, we have a lot of violence
(12:52):
passing between our territories, you know, guns, drugs, human trafficking,
as I mentioned. Yeah, and then Venezuela now is I
mean their hands are not clean. I'm not saying any
country's hands are cleaning this. I'm not trying to pain
into good guy bad guy ecotomy. You know, Venezuela is
still whole and strong to this claim that they have
from since before their independence, that like more than half
(13:18):
of Guyana actually belongs to them. Guyana, by the way,
is an English speaking Caribbean culture country border in Venezuela,
Surinam and Brazil. So Guyana recently explored and discovered a
bunch of offshore reserves, which you know they're really excited
(13:41):
to capitalize upon. And you know they have a lot
of deals and agreements taking place with that is concerned
all of a suchen. Venezuela's like, you know that piece
of land that we've long been saying is ours, Yeah,
that that really is ours. And they started, you know,
they're putting out maps claiming that most of Guyana is
actually Venezuela and all these different So it's a very
(14:01):
it's a very threatening situation because Venezuela is a military
power in its own right, right Guyana, Trinidad, we don't
have much military prowess. So in a sense, I understand
why both Trinidad and Guyana are cozying up with the
US right now. But at the same time, this recent
administration's cozying up has not been the most tactful, you know,
(14:25):
because we do have a diplomatic approach that has worked
well for US for a very long time. Now, the
argument could be made that maybe that diplomatic response, a
diplomatic balance cannot be maintained forever. Our you know, neutrality
cannot persist as things are heating up in the region.
(14:47):
But we had an opportunity to respond carefully, to respond
in a measured fashion to the US's recent move with
bombing the alleged drug vote, and we did not do that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, that's a pretty squndid chance to just like say,
you know, we should respect international law here and and
you know, like the easiest thing to say would be like,
there's a set of prostigious for doing this, we could
follow them. Yeah, it's not hard to say that.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
That that that deal we had with Venezuela, that was
a deal that we were able to negotiate Underbider. That
was the deal that when Trump came into power, he
just took back. He was like, nah, y'all can't do
that anymore. So with Trump going and this either with
US or against US, kind of direction, that calls for
extra you know care and you know you kind of
(15:38):
dealing with a bomb that you're.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Trying to work around, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
But in the same year that Trump got elected, Camera
Pasada Prossessor, our current prime minister, got elected. You know,
she's known for being reckless, she's known for being a
bit of a drunkard. She's passionately pro Trump. She was
a COVID conspiracist. In the vein of one of her
famous coats is sunlight will kill Covid. She's passionately pro us,
(16:08):
passionately anti Murduru, passionately racist, and very much anti cara Com. Okay,
right now, there's a bit of a history there because
Trinid and Guyana two Cribean countries with very large East
Indian populations, as in Indians from India. Yeah, when the
(16:28):
Western News Federation was getting it start, both Guyana and
Trinidad's Indian populations had the concern that, considering the rest
of the Caribbean as black majority, that they will not
be adequately represented in a West Indies federation. And so
that sort of opposition to that level of regional unity
(16:49):
seems to have persisted within some circles of in East
Indian or Indocribbean politics.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Okay, interesting, not all.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Right, but some seem to have an opposition to too
much Caracom involvement because they feel that their voice is
we drowned out by black people. And I mean there's
a lot of anti blackness in that community, but that
is not the subject of this particular episode. So that
sort of opposition to the West in these federation seems
(17:19):
to have carried over intopposition towards Caracom. And when there
was loading out among P and M supporters, which is
the party of Dr Rowley and Doctor Williams, as well
as something parts momentums taking place, Camela ended up coming
into power, right, And when she came into power.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
She's making these moves, making these statements.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
And disregarding cara Com and disregarding cara Comm's opinion, disregarding
cara comm involvement in Trindad's moves and decisions.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
As a small country. Cara Com is supposed.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
To be our way of beefing up our voice on
the international stage. And she basically saying Bun that you know,
we will do our own thing, right. Yeah, Well, I
forgot to mention another thing about Kamala, just for a
bit of context. Cambridge Analytica came into Trinidad and basically
(18:16):
ran an experiment using our elections to test out some
new strategies they ended up taking into the US. Right,
they practiced their electoral manipulation in Trinidad, which is how
Kamla won in the first time she was elected back
in twenty ten twenty fifteen. It was through collaboration with Cambridgealytica.
(18:39):
So again yet another connection between the US and Trinidad
for better and for weeks.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, So what's happening now is that you know, on
the second or September, the US bombed per Rgue and
claim to kill either from people and claimed that.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
It was a drug boat, despite the fact that they
haven't provided any proof that the footage was extremely grainy,
and even if they did have proof that it was
a drug boat. Summary execution on the High C's is
not exactly in line with international law, right right. If
these are quote unquote violent drug traffickers who are killing
(19:24):
people and do not these ridiculous things, you're supposed to
bring them in. You're supposed to interrogate them, You're supposed
to go through a certain procedure.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Right. Yeah. All the smoke and mirrors about.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Drugs and fighting drugs and all these different things, it
really is that smoking mirrors, because if it was about that,
they would be trying to get information to target the
heart of the operation.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
What the US is doing right now is flexing.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Right, Yeah, it's flexing their muscles in the region to
show what it is willing to do. It's trying to
poke and prod Venezuela corresponding kind so that it has
the excuse that needs or they further excuse to intervene.
There was another strike, another boat bombing on the fifteenth
of September, and there was another strike on the nineteenth
(20:14):
of September against another boat and it's a very very
worrying place to be and time to be alive. Right,
I would say, you know, we have Guyana as a player.
You know, they're still working with US world companies. They
collaborate with the US. They have this territorial anxiety with
(20:36):
regards to Venezuela, and they're part of Cara Com. Guyana's
part of Cara Coom trying to you know, work it
out through that channel and through other channels.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Venezuela, in response to.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Camera's energy, has basically put out stepmns talking about hey
this camera laity kind of crazy or show about that
because if any US missile comes out to Turndad, we
are responding to Trinidad.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Right, Trinidad is like not the same as the US, right,
like that, it's not like mutually assured destruction exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So she is, you know, speaking very recklessly and in
the meantime, the Venezuela's saying in response, you know, if
any sort of US incursion is launched out of Trinidad,
which she invited by the way, she said, he US
could based whatever they want and here if they want
to be a standing ready we right. I don't know
where she got this WII from, but she's saying, oh, yeah,
(21:32):
they could come and they could you know, launch stuff
from here. And Venezuela's like, you're talking kind of crazy
right now. You should care about your citizens because we
know your citizens don't like what you're doing, So why
are you doing this kind of thing? Yeah, And it's
bigger than just Venezuela love the US and Trinidad, because
Venezuela is also aligned with Russia. Right, it's I believe
(21:54):
Russia's only ally in the Western hemisphere.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
And while the drug is and the CRIMESU is a
significant concern, most of the drugs are coming from Columbia
in the first place, which the US is not currently targeting.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And at the end of the day, as I mentioned earlier,
it seems to be coming down to regime change and
resources and the control of Venezuela's resources. You know, we
are now in a situation where our fishermen are having
to stay home out of fail oh geez, that their
fishing boats could be struck out of the water. Yeah, yeah,
(22:32):
you know, we are in a situation where Camera's fan
base is just as Trumpian and cultish as the Marca
based seemingly seems to be perfectly fine with what's going on,
although in some ways I think that that might even
be astroturfed or inflated artificially, because there was recently an
exposa that determined a lot of the pro unc which
(22:56):
is Camera's party, the pro unc pro Kamela buzz that
occurs on social media. It's bot driven, Like you go
into these profiles and their bots just you know, fake names,
fake profer pictures, ai posts.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh geez. Yeah, yeah, it's just entirely fabricated.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
This is also at a time when the US is
building a massive embassy in our country, when cameras seemingly
open in the floodgates to military collaboration with the US,
where we are dealing with our own economic wos and
crime wars and so on. And you know, we also
have the largest Chinese embassy in the region, and we
(23:36):
have a lot of collab with China. We recently made
moves to recognize Palestine, with a Palestinian diplomat now reside
in the country. It feels like we are putting ourselves
in a very risky position and whether or not we
could have done more or less to get out of
(23:57):
this position, you know, considering the US has its backyard
policy with regard to the rest of the Americas, with
regard to the fact that Trump has created this Department
of War that the US seems to be feeling around
as a Dian empire. Does the fact that the criptman
has been called out so frequently with violence in an
(24:19):
effort to manufacture consent for what seems to be coming next,
With the fact that there was a field intervention to
overthrow Maduro in the past, known as Operation Gideon, right
back in twenty twenty, all this has me a but stressed.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean, there was a particularly insane attempt to
throw Madeira in twenty twenty, right, the Silver Core thing.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, yeah, they had this American security firm and some
Venezuelan diccidents just they tried to infiltam as well by
see and basically as soon as they landed, they got arrested.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, yeah, I think some of them got detained by
Venezuelan fishermen who realized it only had BB guns. It
sucks that, Like having spent time in Venezuela and with
Venezuelan people a lot, you know, for years now, it's
Venezuelan people who are going to pay the price for
all of this, right, like it's not and potentially people
(25:18):
in Trinidad and Tobago as well, Like they very clearly
do not want Maduro to be running their country, right.
It saw that in the election, and we saw that
in the protests after election. They have every reason to
want to leave their country and go somewhere safe, but
that's not possible for many of them.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, there's a lot of
Venezuelans in Trinidad right now. Yeah, so any moves that
advanced with us make, and they're obviously going to make
with consideration to the fact that they have their own
people Internet as well.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, exactly, And like they're being demonized even though they've
done everything they can to separate themselves from Maduro and
like they are being.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, there's unfortunately a lot of enophobia in Trinidad.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, it's really sad, like and we see it here too, right,
this allegation that they're all gang members, which is like,
if we think that gang violence is bad in Venezuela
and in parts of Venezuela is bad, then surely it
would make sense to people who don't want any part
in that might leave and go somewhere else. Yeah, and
rather than supporting them, we're just we're just killing like
(26:20):
the the lowest tier people. Rather like even if we
entertain the idea that the boat could have been carrying drugs,
and when we put aside the fact that that hasn't
been proven or the boats plural the people driving the
boats and other people like making the calls here, Yeah,
they're the people being.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Killed exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
It's the same principle with all these these these drug
bus and and and gang bus that take place in Dronade.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
You know, they go and they roll in and.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
They arrest these small fries, but the big bosses call
them the shots unharmed. Yeah, you know, the multinational criminal
lambios that aren't moving the people and moving the drugs,
moving the guns in the region, they're untouched.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, And like even the Maduro's to nephews, like they
were released after they were detained for trying to run
drugs via Haiti, right like, like you say, the people
making the real decisions are largely insulated from all this.
It's working people in Venezuela who, like, they don't have
(27:26):
other opportunities, right Like, I have heard the most disheartening stories,
especially for Venezuelan fishermen, right Like, their economy is so
bad that they are not able to put fuel in
their boats. It wouldn't be economical to put fuel in
their fishing boats. Even if they caught a full load
of fish, they wouldn't be able. No one has any
money to buy the fish at a high price, so
(27:50):
they can't pay for the film. This is a country
which sits on a massive oil reserve, but yeah, yeah,
people can't afford to put fuel in their fishing boats.
Like you know, these people are victims of a system
that has left them with very few opportunities, and the
way we're responding is by killing them and by destabilizing
a whole part of the world that no one, no
one asked for this there, you know, apart from apparently
(28:12):
your Prime minister.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, so I mean This was a very rambly episode,
more ambley than my usual, But I just wanted to
get the word out on what's going on in my
corner of the globe, to let the Americans and aodiance
know to you know, please do what you can to
stand to speak out against this American intervention.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
YEA, educate yourself from what's going on. For trainees who
may be in the audience, you know, probably hunkered down
and have a crisis bag or emergency bag set up
if worst comes to us and everyone else, really just
getting knowledge and do what you can.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
In your area to disrupt this machine. Yeah, yeah, that's
it for me, All powers, all the people, peace.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
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