How You Can Help At The Border

Robert sits down with James Stout to talk about the groups saving lives at the U.S. / Mexico border.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to It could happen here, the podcast that's happening
here right now, in your ears, it could happen ere.
I'm Robert Evans. Um, I'm I'm not with any of
my normal UH co hosts today because because fuck them, No,
because I'm elsewhere in the world right now, hanging out
with someone you might remember from a special episode we

(00:28):
recently did on Molotov Cocktails. Journalist James Stout. Hi, everyone, Yeah,
I'm here with Robert in a tiny hotel room and
we've just woken up. We need to do some podcasting. Yeah,
we're not. We're not here for any specific purpose. We
just decided let's run a hotel room, cast some pods,
you know, hang out. Um, James, how do you feel

(00:48):
about the border? Negatively? Broadly speaking, I think the border
is a tool that we used to harm and kill
the most marginalized people in the world. I think that's
kind of borne out by stats as well. Not a
big not a big border guy. Yeah, and you and
I recently spent a decent amount of time on the
Texas Mexico chunk of the border, specifically near McAllen, Texas,

(01:11):
hanging out at a Butterfly sanctuary that people can learn
some things about if they google will be coming out
that those episodes will be dropping in the not too
distant future. Um. But you live on the San Diego
side of the border, um, which if people don't know,
San Diego, California is basically in Mexico. Um, you can
you can hop over across for like lunch and stuff
if you really want to and don't mind dealing with CBP. UM.

(01:34):
And Yeah, so I you've done a lot of reporting
around the border and about kind of the system of
violence that it represents. Um, I wanted to chat a
little bit like about that, and I wanted to chat
about some of the organizations that you've run into that
are doing good work out there, because there's a lot
that needs to be done. Yeah, definitely, I think, Um,
I think it's really important to like conceptualize what's happening

(01:56):
at the border in terms of, like the border is
a tool for state vine right to state violence against
marginalized people, and like what the good group groups helping
people on the boarder represent is like ways of us
helping each other which are outside the networks of us
having power over each other. Right, So in the broader
spectrum of like neutral aid of mutual support, Like I
think they're really important to focus on rather than kind

(02:18):
of so many people construct the border in their minds.
Like you can see if you go back on my Twitter,
some guy just being like that is not the border.
The border does not look like that. The border is
barren and it's desert and it's full of people with
guns and it's really not right. Like, so the border
exists as like this mental construct a place where we
can do like political theater, especially on the right. So
people who are actually down there on the ground and

(02:39):
understand it, I think it's it's vital to support them. Yeah.
One of the more striking moments to me when we
were in McAllen was hanging out near this trunk of
border fence that had been constructed unlike by volunteers effectively. Um,
and it's this, it's it's it's what you would expect,
like the stereotype of the border. It's this huge, military
industrial looking thing. The wildlife has been cleared from around

(03:03):
it so that you can have this towering steel edifice.
But then a hundred yards away across the rio is
the Mexican side of the border, and there's like a
couple of goat farms and like a little restaurant with
a little dock so people can like you know, take
their little boats out and people are drinking and there's
party music playing, and like it's it's nice, it's pastoral

(03:24):
and green. It was. It looked like a lovely place.
It looked much nicer than hanging out by the giant
steel tower. Yeah, I found that all along the border actually,
like we are side of the border looks like something
from a blade Runner or something like it's this giant
dystopian steel construct with with people with guns, with watch towers,
and it's horrific, right, Like it cuts through some of
the most beautiful and important landscapes we have, right through

(03:48):
the high desert, through these very fragile places, and like
it's important. I think people understand as well what the
border wall looks like, right because you've probably seen a
photograph of giant ass wall um and that is part
of it. But they call it the border wall ecosystem.
And what that involves is the wall itself, sometimes a ditch,
sometimes not a ditch, and then a road that's wide

(04:10):
enough for two of the f one fifty raptors, water
patrol like to drive to pass each other and then
access road to that and then genermanly there's also an
access road cut that allows construction vehicles to get to
build all of that. So it's not just some spikes
in the desert. It's fucking destroying this beautiful part of
both of Mexico and the United States. Right now, before

(04:33):
we get into some of these organizations, I'm wondering, first off,
when did you start reporting on the US Mexico border
And is there any kind of specific events that that
you can recall that really kind of ignited your your
interest in this particular like part of the United States,
in this particular part of like our ongoing social conflict. Yeah.

(04:57):
Like I've always been interested in borderlands, like academically, uh
and as part of my PhD UM. But I guess
i'd probably about eight or nine years i've been reporting
on the border. The thing that really sort of took
it from being like the border is sometimes I think
I write about I did a lot of outdoor writing
about the border to right. It was very interesting in
getting more people to go outside in bak California. It's

(05:19):
amazing and you should do it. But what really sort
of I guess made me be the Gulf funk. This
is fucking horrible. U is quote unquote migrant caravan. Right.
So I've been down just just enjoying a weekend in
fettle further south and a little further south of Tijuana
and having a really good wine country there. So we've

(05:41):
been checking out these wine places and just enjoying ourselves.
And we come back and then these people are in
um what's called the Benito Kuaida's Sports Complex. It's just
a baseball field, and it's raining and it's November, and
it looks like a fucking battle of the saw him
in there. You know, it's mud. They're little children, and

(06:02):
I've been in these situations before, if I've seen situations
with displaced people before, but there was something that just
broke my heart about, like, so obviously we're gonna go in, right,
I'm gonna see what's going on. We're going to see
what we can do to help. And they're little kids.
Remember there was this little girl and this one still
makes me really sad. But she would find me. There

(06:24):
were thousands of people there. Every single time I came,
she would find me. Found me. The first day ah,
and she would like we talked for a little bit
about what she was doing, and then she was standing
like halfway up her little shins in mud, and she
didn't have any works like shower or be clean, you know.
She was living in a sort of tarp shelter and

(06:44):
it just fucking broke my heart. So used to she
used to like plack my hair a lot so and
carry her around. And that was just like this realization
for me, like of how cruel this thing is. Shortly
there after, of course, the police stood in the parking
lot of the Tommy Hill Figure discount store in order
to fire tear gases some of the most marginalized and

(07:05):
desperate people certainly in that part of the world, right,
And just that it's it's a scene that like, yeah,
that would if you put that in a movie, you
would be like, it's a little bit heavy handed, right,
having them shoot from the Tommy Hill finger at the
desperate migrants. That's a little bit heavy. Yeah, yeah, it's
it's it's just dis advanced fucking parody of where we
are as a society. But yeah, the the DHS helicopter

(07:27):
is taking off from the Tommy Hill Figure store to
fire tear grass grenades at the children who just want
a safe place to sleep. I had a moment like
that in a protest where the Portland police We were
in um uh North Portland, UM, which is like in
a neighborhood that was like one of the fairly few
like black neighborhoods in Portland, and the cops you know,

(07:47):
win ape Ship and started firing impact munitions down Martin
Luther King Boulevard. And I didn't catch myself at first,
and I was like, the cops are now shooting down
Martin Luther. Yeah, you've been in and around like you

(08:10):
you live there obviously, So who are like, who are
some of the folks that you've come across that are
doing the most to actually help there? And what kind
of help like is necessary? Because I feel like one
of the one of the things I think is the
primary shortcoming of it could happen here is a show
so far is that the way Garrison and I phrase
it is like a lot of our episodes are here's
a problem. Goodbye, Right, We're like, here's the thing that's bad.

(08:34):
Off we go, like so what I guess the two
chief questions I think they need to be answered, because
I'm hoping pretty much everyone here is on board with
the border is a nightmare. Uh, something's got to be done.
What are the kind of things that can actually materially
improve people's lives who are being affected by this border ecosystem?
And then who are the motherfucker's who are actually out

(08:55):
there trying to unfuck things that to the extent that
unfucking is doable here? Yeah, So I think like just
to further like make people sad first, Like, if you
look up de Colonial Atlas southern border, you can find
this map of where migrants die when they're coming to
the United States, right, And we often it's constructed in
the news media is like it's dangerous crossing Mexico. It is.

(09:16):
It's it's dangerous coming across the Darien Gap. Sure it is,
But the vast bulk of people die within a few
miles of our southern border, right. And that's because, especially
now with the way we've constructed the border wall. Right
before the election, Donald Trump in a debate made claims
about how much border war he built like everything else,
he was full of shit. So they just tried to

(09:37):
build as much as they could between them the election,
so they just skip the hard parts, skip the mountain,
to skip the valleys, and that often forces people to
cross in the most arduous terrain, right, so that that's
increased the amount of people dying. So we can look
broadly at like two categories of support, right, which are like, um,
I guess like direct aid and then legal aid. So

(09:59):
m on the legal aid side the guys who guys
and girls and other people who who have been really
really helpful to the other side right there there Legal
aid group. They were very very cool during the during
the microt care event, like they and I realized that
something about a loaded phrase, right, I'm just trying to
use a word that people will understand. They were there

(10:21):
constantly helping people with good course letters. They were there
filing legal briefs on their behalf. As a result of that,
many of them were illegally surveiled by the Department of
Homeland Security. We had the phones taken, the communications trace,
their movements traced, their network trace, etcetera. They are wonderful people, right, like,
they do amazing things with helping people get legal aid. Um.

(10:45):
And then you've got the people who are helping people
while they cross, right, And there are a number of
these mutual a groups. If you're in a certain region
there at the border, there is probably someone near you.
I'm no expert on all of them, but you can
look at like no mass there is in Arizona Armados believe,
I think they. I don't know if they operate also

(11:05):
in Texas, but certainly in that California Arizona area. You
can look at border angels, right. Border angels are probably
the biggest, most public facing one, and they are fantastic. Right.
They're out there making sure that there are cashes of
water for people who are crossing, making sure that when
it's cold at night there are warm clothes, and when
it's hot, there are clothes suitable for that weather. Right,
maybe in a new backpack, canned food. They're like doing

(11:28):
the active stuff that stops people dying. Um, and that's invaluable, right,
And it's also important in terms of showing that like
they're often right. Things I've seen like like you're welcome, right,
welcome to this country or whatever. It's showing that most
of us don't agree with this dehumanizing brutalization of migrants
that state is doing on our behalf, and so showing

(11:49):
that welcome. It's very important. There are lots of indigenous groups. Um.
I did ask if I could name them, but that
they didn't get back to me, so I don't want to.
But like there are groups within the toronaud Term nation
and their groups within the Umu nation, I'm sure there
are groups within other tribes whom the border crossed, right,
who lived in this area long before it was a border,
who are also out there helping people. There are also

(12:11):
individuals helping people out on their property, right. Um if
you if you can't find how to donate one of
those groups, you can reach out to me. That's fine.
But yeah, I think the work they're doing is invaluable,
both in terms of like showing people that they are
welcome and in terms of saving lives. Right. More and
more people die at the border every year, especially with

(12:32):
things like Title forty two, which we can get into
with MPP sure. So Title forty two it's a public
it's part of a public health law. It's very antiquated.
I think it was last used in the nineteen thirties.
The idea behind it was to stop people with tuberculosis
coming into the United States and if they have and

(12:52):
um um if they have an infectious to transmissible disease
I think it's called, then they can be immediately sent
back without processing. Right. Um, this was part of a
whole suite of things that they used to do to
laborers coming north. Right. They would also spray them with
all kinds of insecticides, which obviously is not good for
the health. And so title fully to the idea being

(13:14):
you know, you get if you present to me at
the border and I'm a border patrol guy and you're
like coughing up a lung and obviously tuberculous, cuberculous. I
don't know you have tubercule, yeah, tuberculastic, then I will
send you back and just be like no Robert oft
until you're healthy. You're going to infect everyone else here,
especially if I detain you. Now, what it's being used

(13:35):
to do with COVID nineteen is to not process migrants right,
to do what's called catch and released, just bump them
south and let them go. What that means is that
these so normally you could cross surrender to a CBP
AG and that's another miss missunderstanding. Right, A lot of
people will want to surrender right there that they they
have no intention of not being processed um for certain

(13:59):
countries as being called a TPS, which I'll explain in
a second, which which there will be no reason for
them not to be processed. So these people will cross,
and now they could just get dumped on the other side. Right,
it doesn't matter if they are a person who is pregnant,
doesn't matter, if the elderly, doesn't matter, if they're medically
compromised a week. They can't just get dumped. What this
has meant is that people who are helping them cross, right,

(14:20):
people who maybe charge a fee for helping them cross,
are offering like crossings without limits. You we'll just try again,
try again. And it means, like I said before, because
of the combination of this and then this, this hostile
infrastructure that we're building, right, this boarder wall system, that
people will try crossing in more and more remote places. Right.
That is when people die crossing, is when they cry

(14:43):
and cross in in places that are are hotter, that
are more arduous. Right, it requires days of walking sometimes
in like and I've been in that terrain. I spend
a lot of my time out there, and like for
a long time, it's been more or less my job
to be outside out there, and it is hard. So
if I imagine seeing with everything I need to start
my new life and carrying my child, it's very difficult
for me. And I'm more accustomed to it than most,

(15:06):
so it's it's very difficult and forcing people to just
kind of bounce back. Because when we drop someone in Mexico, right,
if they are Guatemalan Honduran, they don't have any network there, right,
it doesn't exactly help, like uh into like sometimes we
like this construct that like the border fuels crime, right,

(15:27):
like crime is like they talk about like like sometimes
cartels is far too broadly used. Nearly always it's far
too broadly used. But this idea that the board of
funds like drug running an organization such as that, well,
you don't help by dumping someone where they have no
other means of making a living, right where they're going
to be very poor and now they don't have any

(15:48):
mate and I have anyone to go to to ask
for help, write like, I don't blame people for trying
to find a way to do something so understandably, like
if I don't think I think it's largely a lie
that any significant number of people sort of running drugs
across the border are migrants or um you know, I
think that's that's largely a racist lie. But leaving people

(16:10):
dislocated there is a recipe for poverty, and I can't
know things like crime do happen more. I guess when
people are poor and don't have any other options, that
makes sense if we go back to TPS really quickly,
because I think that's important to temporary protected status. Right
you'll see people on Twitter talking about TPS. What that

(16:30):
basically means is that they can't deport you back to
a country. So it took Biden an obscenely long time
to grant a TPS for the people from Ukraine, right
fived something. People went into the deportation system between the
time in like November December, when Biden's administration started being

(16:52):
like there is going to be war in Ukraine and
Russians are going to invade Ukraine, they were still actively
in the process of sending people back to Ukraine at
that time. It wasn't until about a week into the
shooting war that they said, Okay, temporary protected status, we
won't send you back. It exists for other countries, exists
for Haiti. It exists for me and mar Burma, right. Um,

(17:13):
I don't know if it exists for Syria or I
think it does, but these countries where basically like we
won't send you back there. And TPS is very important,
right because it stops people being deported to places where
they will die. And it's important to understand that, like
you could have everything right in terms of your assilum
application and still be sent back. It's a cruel and

(17:35):
very impersonal system. So a TPS is important, And if
you're into sort of advocating for laws, then it's an
important thing to advocate for. I think yeah, Um, in
terms of more, I think that's important because we kind
of the electoral side of things is not does not
tend to be our focus here, but it's also not useless.
Like the border is one of the areas most clearly

(17:56):
where you can see both how advocating and the realm
can immediately improve people's lives and also how both sides
of the political spectrum use the border as a weapon
to hurt. Yeah, exactly. The boarder is definitely a stage
for both sides political theater. Like look at Joe Biden, right,
he's coming in, He's signing this declaration. On the first day,
remember the day he was inaugurated, I went out to
the border wall just sat there by myself and like

(18:18):
wept because it's just this horrible, ugly thing that's such
a scar on the place that I love. And he's
done funck all right, and he's deporting more people than Trump,
and he's building his own Biden barrier, which is the
same thing with that nantikliin plate. But yeah, like, even
if you don't agree with the existence of laws and lawmakers, right,
there's this concept that I like a lot called normative anarchism.

(18:40):
I think it's Wolf, the guy who wrote it. But like,
we can move towards the state doing less cruelty and
being a little more free, and that is a move
in the right direction, even if it's not the end goal.
And I think the border is a place where you
can really make a difference like that, right, Like some
small changes in how things are done would reduce used
as the cruelty to people who have done nothing wrong massively.

(19:03):
So I think it is an area where even those
of us who might not be generally inclined to like
electoral stuff, like you can I think I don't know
if you can make a distance because, like so many
people in Milwaukee, you're watching Fox News and are fucking
completely convinced that the border is just I don't know,
people with guns trying to smuggle children or whatever. But yeah,
it's an area where small changes in policy make a

(19:25):
huge Title forty two right, not even a law, it's
an executive or it's not even executive, or it's an interpretation.
Uh the war right, most of that ship wasn't built
by Congress. It was built by executive orders. So like
that stuff, I think is a place where you can
you can affect positive change for people. Now. Unfortunate, we've
got to driant wall and I don't think it's coming

(19:46):
down anytime soon, But it doesn't mean we shouldn't actively
try to make things kinder for people coming here now.
On the direct action side of things, which I think
more of our audience tends to support, one of the

(20:06):
most obvious things is just like setting out, as you said,
like drops of water, food equipment. Now that's kind of
depending on where you are, can be shall always say
complex from a legal standpoint. Can you talk to that
a little bit, yes, certainly. So, Like the obvious cases
are one in Arizona, right, which eventually ended up the
person was vindicated, but vindicated to your own word, but

(20:29):
not didn't go to prison exactly. Yeah. Yeah, what he
was doing was right from the start. But yeah, it
can be complex, I think, especially if you're in some
of these states which are like doing culture war, right
like Arizona in Texas. Yeah, the cruelty is kind of
the point. So if you are doing something to alleviate

(20:49):
that cruelty, making an example, if he was very much
in the interest of those cultural war politicians and judges
and other people, which is why it's important to do
it with a mutual aid group, right, Like, these groups
are not just like randos, they're extremely organized. I would
also just caution that, like going out into the desert
on your own is extremely fucking dangerous. The desert can

(21:10):
kill you with heat and day. It can kill you
with the cold nights, sometimes on the same day and night. Right,
this is a hard place. I'm not saying you shouldn't
go out there. You should. It's it's an amazing place,
but you should be careful. You should go with the group.
So if you're living somewhere along the border, there is
a group of people who are doing this. They will
understand what is legal and correct. Like, for instance, if

(21:31):
you are not a citizen, if you're a Green card holder,
you should probably not go down to the border with
jugs of water. You should maybe do some fundraising, you
should you should maybe do something else, And that's fine, right,
You're still part of a system which is helping people.
But yes, there have been some prosecutions, I think in California,
there haven't been any to my knowledge for a while. Um.

(21:52):
There is also some interesting tech developments. One a few
a long time ago now called the Transport of Migrant Tool,
which was mapping out like what at the time, we
didn't have the border wall them right, but like water
cashier's locations of CVP checkpoints and then I guess it
was using Google Maps to make roots which it was

(22:12):
created by a faculty member who at the time was
at the University of California, who faced pretty terrible career
repercussions for doing it. But there are things like that
that people can do too, right, which you can do
from your bedroom, and if that's your preference, if that's
how you prefer to help. But yeah, I would caution
about just going out there. Always look for groups, right,
there are people for whom this is their entire life

(22:33):
of activism. You can also I'm sure, I hope I'm
not putting a bunch of like work on their plate.
But Talkedado, see what they suggest, right, Altro Lado the
other side, that's this legal a group you can just
call them. I'm sure that they they thinking. They've been
very helpful to me when I've been when I've needed
help for people I'm working with. Talk to them about

(22:56):
what is what is legal and sensible and what's not,
Whether it's better to give your or give your time
or what you can do give them the resources available
to you, I guess. And you can also just show
kindness to refugees in your community too, that they're probably there.
Whether or not they're visible is a different question, but
that's you know, there are places where you can help people.

(23:16):
Another one I should mention, actually, just for folks who
are inclined to help in a different way I guess,
is people just feeding people Like I really don't think
you can ever blame someone for feeding hungry persons a
food not bombs. Food not bombs are always cool, right,
if if you want to do kindness without state food
not bombs, there is one in your area. Look them up,
um and World Central Kitchen, which is jos Andreas the chef. Yeah,

(23:40):
he's in Ukraine. Or his guys just got sheld in Ukraine,
that's right. Yeah, yeah, a number of them got shelved
in Khakee. I think, um, those people, like I do
understand that he has some labor issues. Yeah, although I
think he's he recently like came out and said that
he had been wrong on that. I'd have to double check. Yeah,
that's impressive. Like I've said this before, this dude pivoted

(24:01):
his whole life after seeing what happened in Haiti to
feeding people who are hungry all over the world. So
I do believe he's capable of change, and hopefully he
can change and treat his workers with decency in respect
as well. But anywhere I am right where there is
a humanitarian crisis inside the US, outside the US, those
people are there first, there there before the Red Cross
and MS. If they don't seem to get tied up

(24:22):
in the bureaucratic ship. Most large global NGOs do. Like
I've been in refugee camps where MSF and Red Cross
outside not doing anything. Yeah, if you anywhere I have
been where there are large groups of refugees, refugee camps,
people dealing with violence. The most commonly cursed groups are

(24:42):
often in g os. Yes, yeah, yeah, there are you know,
people in white Lands, people in fancy hotel lobbies, you know,
like that makes me very angry and very sad, But
I don't see that with w c K, Like I
have consistently seen them in this is pretty my situations,
you know, like times that give me bad sleeps, you know,

(25:04):
and they're always there helping people. So then there are
also church groups in lots of communities. Like I'm not
a religious person, but like I really can't fault any
of these church groups that I've seen coming down from
San Diego to Tijuana to feed and help people. But
I would probably stay clear of those giant NGOs with
your giving. I've just seen them be consider bureaucratic and
less effective. Yeah, I mean one of the rules. This

(25:27):
is harder when it's a conflict far from home, and
you know, you see some news that makes you want
to help, but you don't have any connections. But if
you can never talk to people on the ground there,
it's always best to ask them, like, who's actually doing anything, um,
because sometimes it is MSF you know, sometimes uh it
is one of these larger organizations, but oftentimes they'll tell you, like,

(25:49):
you know, the group when I was in Mosle that
got the most consistent praise from people who were like
living there was the Free Burmer Rangers, right, Like there
were all these massive international organizations, but when it came
right down to the people who were like running under
gunfire to pull wounded civilians out where you know those folks, Yeah, yeah,
those those guys do some do some very brave stuff, definitely,

(26:09):
And yeah, it is normally you can find people on Facebook,
Like I've never been in a sort of situation with
a lot of displaced people what people were not actively
on Facebook, and you can find people there they just
just like you just want to have a chat. And again,
it's nice to have a chat. That's such an important
point too, because I think that number one people are
often and it's easier, right, Like everyone has limited time,
but you kind of leave it to whatever media you

(26:32):
trust to connect you to people in these desperate circumstances,
and like people tend to want to connect who are
dealing with something like that, who are fleeing violence, who
are and they also are connected, Like they're not separate
from the rest of the world just because they've had
to leave their home behind, and they're not they're generally
not excluded from the information networks that we all existed. Yeah, yeah,

(26:54):
I think And sometimes that portrayed is like, um, we
talk about them, not to them far too often the media,
and that makes me mad, right, Like I see that
all the time. I see that happening when I'm doing reporting, right,
I'll see people hanging out on the peripheries in these camps.
I understand some people are worried about COVID or whatever.
So of those people, right, like, uh, to be safe
and be sensible, and yeah, these people want to talk.

(27:16):
I remember one thing that always sticks out or they
want the same things that we want. Remember, so in
migrant caravan, they were moved from the need to quire
a sports complex to this old nightclub a bit further
south but further away from the border. Right. It was
a very weird scene. It was this big nightclub with
like the mirrors and the dancing poles and the disco balls.

(27:36):
But it had been like moss balls for like ten years.
It was all dusty, and they had a special room
for people who were pregnant, people people who had had children,
and and the young children themselves, right, they were sort
of just to keep them safe. And we were going
there and it was weird because there were still with
mirrors on the floor. But then I remember these kids,

(27:56):
you talk to them, right, you know, what do you want?
And like, first of all, one kid asked me for
a Teddy bearon It's broke my heart, Like I don't
know why, it just level me. Uh. And then they
wanted to like you know that they'd enjoyed the same
Disney films that kids here had, Right, so my buddy
managed to acquire a projector. We went into the ceiling,
rigged up this projector and just set up like Beverly

(28:19):
Hills Chihuahua playing on one water this nightclub. And these
kids are like it's Beverly Hills Chihuahua, Like let's go
like the you know, they were just kids watching a
film like like like they can be anywhere else, and
it's really easy to see them as like different or
week or you know the way they're portraying the media
is like people without agency and they're not like they've
taken huge amounts of agency to try and improve their lives.

(28:40):
And it's also so much focus is on these things
that aren't you know, medicine, food that are necessary, but
like having a normal moment where you're like a kid
watching a cartoon or playing with a toy, it's also necessary. Yeah, Like,
these children will be scarred by their experiences, right by
whatever's causing fleet, by the flight itself, and by the

(29:01):
process of coming to the into the country. But yeah,
we should do everything we can to protect them from
those traumatic experiences. And just like I cannot count the
amount of times I have been like ship housed in
a game of football by six year olds trying to
come to the United States, right, Like, so things like that,
Remember someone donated a couple of football goals, I too,
come down and set them up. And then yeah, just

(29:21):
having those moments of normalcy, those moments of fun, like
little little plastic ukuleles and stuff like, we're very important
because it let kids be kids. And then that's you know,
they have every right to do that. Well, James, I
think that's going to make a soda for us you
want to throw your plug doubles in before we roll out. Yeah,
I want to plug, like like I said before, doing

(29:43):
things to help people outside of networks that let people
have power over people. To do that first and then yeah,
you can put my name James Stout into Twitter and
find me have a Patreon by the same thing right
about the border a lot. You can see it in
um if I just plug one popular p O p
U l A about migrant caravan so you can read

(30:04):
my writing there. Uh, feel free to message me if
you want to find any of these groups and you
can't ye, all right, well that's gonna do it for us.
Go do something good. It could Happen here as a
production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool
Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

(30:25):
or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can
find sources for It could Happen here, updated monthly at
cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.