January 5, 2022 • 40 mins
In which we answer more of your questions
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back to it could happen here the podcast where
Jay your Boltonaro was once again in the hospital getting
all of the facings sucked out of his in the hospital.
The most consistently dying man in the world. You know what,
(00:25):
this man in history, you know, actually literally full of
ship again. You know what? You know what this means.
It approximately three four weeks, Stephen Crowder is going to
get some horrible illness. And if we said to the hospitals,
well the cycle, this is the only like the cycle.
(00:47):
My hope for both of them is that they find
out that each has an obscure disease that can only
be cured by piping ship from the other into them,
And so they just hook them up via a tube
and they're just sucking poop out of each of them
and putting it into the other person. That would be
very funny. Hot All right, what's our first question? Our
first question? So this was specifically addressed to Chris, so
(01:08):
Chris you can answer first, But I think this is
a question for for everyone. Really, what is your favorite
piece of history that you haven't been able to talk
about yet on the show that isn't deserving of a
whole episode, favorite piece of I mean, we ain't talked
about the Zapatista as yet because I don't I don't
(01:29):
yet feel comfortable, uh with with my level of knowledge there.
But it's definitely history that's extremely relevant to the kind
of ship we talked about on the show. Have I
talked about the water and gas wars and Bolivia on
the show? We've talked about that at all? Either? Yeah,
(01:50):
I mean althought. I mean that that probably is deserving
of its own episode. But absolutely a bunch of people
just literally like blocking every road in the entire country
and starving out the ruling class because they can't like
import food into the city because they've blocked every single road.
Extremely cool, I guess in terms of like really short,
not deserving of its own episode, I don't know either,
(02:14):
because I've I've been able to elongate all my periods
into episodes. Yeah, I don't know that there's anything we
wouldn't cover. There's certainly things we haven't covered yet for
a variety of reasons. Often just like I don't feel
like we've had the time to do. There's a lot
of work. Yeah, it's like why why haven't why haven't
we done a Mao episodes like do you know how
much ship that motherfucker got in his life? I have
(02:35):
been like mentally like psychologically preparing myself to start working
on mat like this is a ah, that's that Actually, no,
it's the Mango Colts. It's definitely the Mango Colts. Did
you did you did you know about this? No? The
Mango Colts. Yeah, okay, So so Mao got like I
forget who was I want to say it was the
(02:58):
Prime Minister of Pakistan some something like dignitary like gave
him a man. This is this is like this is
the beginning of the cultural revolution. Somebody gives him a
mango and he like hands this mango off to like
a red mango and like they like like this this
turns into like a cult. Like people like they take
this mango, they like preserve it. It's it's like they
(03:18):
have they have like a shrine to the mango. And
like like there's this whole cult apparatus like builds up
around just people getting mangoes as like tokens of Mao's favors.
This just like this this massive things that is this
This this spreads like wildfire. It's like people are doing
this in like the far western reaches of China where
like like in places where like there's like like one
(03:41):
of things culture with Like there there are places in
China where like civil wars breakout and it takes people
like a week to like send representatives like across China
to go like talk to the Central Committee to argue
their case. And like even in those places they have
mango cults and it is it is wild. The culture
revolution is a is a it is a time. It is. Well,
(04:01):
I know what I'm getting everyone for Christmas this year.
They're my favorite fruit. Like, well, we'll see if the
species survives this next summer. Oh we will, Yeah, we'll
just be growing. So just be growing in Siberia. Mangoes
(04:23):
sprouting from the corpses of fucking antelope. That is beautiful. Um,
I can't think of anything. Next question, okay, uh speaking
of history, I like this one. If you could fight
anyone in history, wait for it and lose, who would
you fight? And why who would I fight and lose
(04:45):
and lose? Like you still get like a few good
hits in or something, but you'd lose, David Bowie because
it would be hot. Next question other people could answer
I guess no. I think that's a good that's the
perfect Yeah. I would happily be hit by David Bowie,
so sure, why not there? Yeah, And I know that
(05:08):
David Bowie really loved to hit teenagers. I would be
totally hitting. In the other sense, I would be fine
with anything. I don't care when it comes to Bowie. Wow,
that's problematic. Problematic. Uh huh. We got a few questions
about the ethics of leaving the United States as things
(05:31):
get worse. Okay, that's one. Yeah, And this is something
that I know we've talked about. You've got that get
out of America and I see. That's the thing is that,
like I already have my Canadian passport, so that is
something that I can do at any time. And that's
something that I probably will do at some point, because
(05:52):
one I can see myself in my theorties and forties,
living in Canada will be a lot easier in a
lot of ways in terms of like how much money
it will cost for me to live and pay certain things,
Like living in Canada at a certain point will just
make a lot more sense for me. So yeah, I
probably will move up. Um. And I also know that
getting past Canadian border patrol. Not that hard in terms
(06:15):
of other people wanting to go legally or illegally. That's
it is actually pretty easy to get to get up there. Um,
if you want to do it legally, that's definitely a
lot a lot more work, but also not impossible. Um yeah,
I think. I mean, like it's important to know that,
like moving to somewhere else is not escaping the effects,
because the effects are going to reach everywhere, but it
(06:37):
can have a lot of advantages, um, especially kids. Yeah,
So I I say moving up is or moving away
from the States is a decent thing for a lot
of people. I don't feel the need to stay and
fight for something that I don't really care about what's
in the first place anyway, UM, So sure do what
(06:59):
may because you happy in the time that you have alive.
I feel like that's a that says as ethical as
you need to get Yeah, I don't think anyone has
a responsibility to like stay in uh fight to the
death uh in in a collapsing country. Um As as
(07:20):
a general rule, I'm very sympathetic towards refugees, And that's
kind of what you would be if you're talking about
fleeing the United States because you're it's in the process
of falling apart, and things are you suspect a lot
about to get a lot more violent, especially if you
have again, like a family kids. Um I I had
options to do that that I've I've chosen at this
(07:42):
point not to UM, not to pursue UM, but UH,
I get white people would and as a general rule,
like I spent I spent once when I was UM
in UH in Bosnia and Serbia talking to survivors of
the genocide there in the nineties. UM. I took a
train ride UM from Sarajevo to like a little town
(08:06):
near Strabernitza and Uh. During the train ride, I wound
up like hanging out with this dude who had been
born and raised in Yugoslavia and had been living in
Canada since the Civil War, and he, like very through
in his kind of broken English, explained like, yeah, when
the war broke out, all of my friends, all of
these other young guys I knew, were like, well, you know,
(08:27):
we're gonna fight, We're gonna fight, And I said no, no, no,
no no. Went to Canada and this is the first
time I've been back and that was the smart thing
to do. Um, So I'm not I mean, if you
can get the if you can get out and find
a place that's safer, as Garrison said, like there's there's
nothing I think that inherently behooves you to spend your
uh limited time on this planet struggling, and especially if
(08:51):
you've got a family, like doing what you can to
put them in a safer position is great. That said,
none of it's a permanent or even necessarily a long
term solution. Like idea of moving to Canada has a
lot of appeal, but like if you think that Canada
is going to keep being what would a lot of
Americans see it as as the United States collapses into
like fascism. I don't know how realistic a proposition that
(09:13):
really is. And it's the same for a lot of places,
Like all of these problems are global problems, and moving
geographically unless you're wealthy enough to move to like some
fortified compound protected by contractors in a place that is
actually insulated from climate change to a significant extent, um
is not the does not bring the degree of security
(09:34):
you might expect. Um, I do think there is. I
do think it is generally speaking, a noble and positive thing,
uh to to to stay and try to make things
better where you are. But um, you know, I think everybody,
I think everyone. I think every like single person, whether
they admit it or not, would leave at a certain
point if they possibly could. Um, And I don't think
(09:56):
anyone is. I don't think anyone owes it to the
world to like, uh die in a place that they
hate just because um, that's where they were born and
(10:19):
we're bad. Okay, what tool besides bolt cutters should we
all own in a collapse situation? First of all, bolt cutters,
that should not be your first picture to for a tool. No, No,
it should be an angle grinder with a diamond blade. No.
Even like water filters gotten me out of a number
(10:41):
of types water filtration systems. There's a starters, like, there's
a lot of there's a lot of stuff if not
even's not water filtration, you can get tablets or honestly,
like you can have a little hand pump filter and
water purification tablets along with a little you know, there's
a number of things that are that should be in
a go bag away. You do get some amount of
(11:02):
of already clean water in a way to get more
clean water, enough food to at least deal with three
to five days. Um, some rope. UM. A good knife
multi tool is even better in most situations if you
have if you don't mind the weight, a belt knife
and a multi tool would be great. Or a multi
tool in a little hand axe, which depending on where
(11:24):
you live, might be more useful in splitting wood. A
good fire starter. UM. Some amount of rubbing alcohol, which
is always a handy thing to have on hand. UM.
Either maps or you know, batteries for an electronic device
that might be able to act as a map. Um. Yeah,
(11:44):
that that's all useful stuff. UM. I do I I
do keep in the boot of my car generally an
angle grinder. UM. I have come into, especially living out
in the middle of nowhere, a couple of situations like
sometimes somebody has a health emergency and there is a
fence in the way. UM, and it's it has been
something that is and is I think going to be
easier for boat cutters are good at what they do,
(12:07):
they also require a lot of forearm and upper body
strength that is not going to be as much of
an option for people. So angle grinder not a bad
thing to have in any sort of like it, especially
if you like if you're if you're planning a kid,
like I want to keep ship in my car because
the wildfires are coming right, Um, Well, you're probably don't
want a battery powered saw, um because depending on the
capable Even if you have a very capable off roading vehicle,
(12:28):
everyone I know who does serious overlanding is like, well
you keep a fucking chainsaw in there because sometimes you
need to cut wood out of the way and you're
just not going to get your car over it. Um.
So it really depends on what you're doing, and like
what the what the the kind of potential threats you're
worried about are um, But yeah, I think the basics
(12:50):
are way to get water, some amount of food, ability
to start a fire. Something like a space blanket is
useful if you live in a place where it actually
gets hold. You should have a space blanket and a
wool blanket or a couple of wool blankets, because those
will retain heat much better. Wool keeps like eight of
(13:10):
its insulating capacity even when wet, and like layering wool
and survival blankets UM can be a really effective way
to keep yourself from dying in in in bad weather situations. Um.
That said, depending on where you are, there may be
no realistic way to protect yourself in the like if
you are in certain parts of the Midwest at certain
(13:31):
parts of the winter, it may not matter so much,
like what blankets you have at access to frustrating the
will there's and there's no like structures around you, then yeah,
it's negative. There's only so much. Yeah, I do love
collecting a lock bypass tools. It's one of my favorite
things is just to have these practice using them. Um.
(13:54):
Something I got for when I went to the Earth
First Gathering that worked out pretty well was a foldable
solar panel that connects to USB. That's enough to keep
my phone alive always. So in terms of always wanting
a map, this little foldable thing is enough to keep
my phone able to have a map assuming I have
cell service. So I was skeptical of how much this
(14:16):
thing could work. Um, and it it did a decent
enough job. It even kept it even kept like my
iPad pro um uh powered as well, so it had
had had a decent amount of square footage once you
unroll it. So that was very useful. But yeah, I
mean I I really like luck bypass stuff. Um, it's
(14:37):
one of one of one of my other hobbies. So
this is, you know, a variety of tools in that
type that it's a nice to get, like a decent
collection of also like especially now, but probably in general,
like have masks like just I mean just in general,
like sure have masks, have lots of them. Make sure
you can change them. Yeah, I have a gas mask
(15:00):
if that's at all physically like respond like fiscally possible
for you. Mira is the one I think Garrison and
I would both recommend to the want really good gas
wonderful again all of these kids, there's the kid are like, okay,
what is the what is what's necessary? And then there's
like all right, if you have money or if you
(15:21):
have time that you want to learn extra skills? What
are other things like lock picks? If you're just a
random Joe and you've never like, don't throw lock picks
in your kid, if you've never done any lock pick ship,
they're not going to help you. Um. But if that
that is a skill that is worth picking up and
that will make you like more resilient. Um yeah um
oh And a fourteen point nine millimeter anti material rifle. UM,
(15:44):
you're always gonna need one of those. They're they stay
supersonic it up to three and a half miles UM,
which is really useful, So definitely, definitely, and they're only
you probably aren't going to spend more than dollars getting
one set up, So it's it's really for the price
of of of a fairly new Toyota Prius, you could
have UM an anti material rifle that con pierce armored
(16:07):
vehicles at at several miles distance, And really what is
more pragmatic a survival tool than that, and we for it.
It's only like around that's just a moderately expensive meal
per bullet. Christopher, Uh, do you think that corporations like
(16:30):
Walmart or Amazon could become more military stick as? Yeah?
I mean yeah, I think I think absolutely. The trend
that worries me as Amazon's increasing UM collaborations with in
deeper connections with like the FBI and other kind of
law enforcement agencies. UM. The degree to which target has
(16:50):
also like with the FBI and like with other agencies,
because they're they're anti shrink department and whatnot. They're like
they're the surveillance they've built to stop theft is so advanced.
They have one of the best crime labs in the
whole United States. Yeah, organizations like Tiger Swan, which is
a mercenary group that the Dakota Pipeline people, the Dapple
(17:11):
folks like hired to crack down on the Standing Rock
protests and have have worked in other There's other organizations
like that that we're active during the BLM protests and
kind of the I I do think we're seeing a
pair of militarization of a lot of these corporation, a
lot of these corporations in order to protect their what
they see is their financial interests um and that that
(17:34):
is that is proceeding rapidly. And it's not the thing
that I'm not most I'm not most worried about them.
Like do like having armed forces, although there will be
some degree of that. There's already that's already happened, Like
in Portland and downtown Portland there are armed effectively like
mercenaries guarding certain businesses and certain areas like as a
(17:55):
result of like you know, to deal with quote unquote
the gun crime or whatever property crime that's raised. But
the thing that I think is most concerning is the
degree to which they are professionalizing a paramilitary surveillance apparatus UM,
and Amazon has done it to do stuff like crackdown
on union organizing and whatnot. Like, So, yeah, I'm very
concerned with that. I'm I I think that the the
(18:18):
dimension of it that's most frightening is not necessarily like
the shadow run, you know, corporations buying armies, but rather
corporations buying like intelligence agencies. UM is kind of the
thing that I think will actually be the biggest threat
UM because in a lot of cases, generally speaking, if
I have to deal with an armed security guard or
a cop, that security guard is going to be less
(18:39):
of a pain in the ass than the cop. UM.
Not always, but as a general rule, I'm less worried
about security guards than cops, even armed ones. I think
another thing that's important to keep in mind is that, yeah,
I mean, so's like I don't. I don't. I really
don't think there's a danger that we're going to go
back to like East India company style, like people with
(19:00):
mass armies, because it's it's literally too expensive, Like you can't,
it's it's too expensive, and the armies that exist already
do that. Yeah, yeah, you don't need them. But but
I mean, I think that the thing the thing that's
like scary outside of the intelligence stuff, which is terrifying,
but it's the stuff they do down like like you
call it down the supply chain, which is like you know,
the Cocolan murdering union organizers with paramilitaries, right, they tend
(19:24):
to work through like like you know, the corporations will
back rebel groups, right, corporations will back like you know,
in Colombia, you see a lot of this is like
you have these sort of like these I mean something
about some of the back just directly by landholding holding corporations.
Some of them are backed by just individual large landholders.
(19:44):
But you get these, like you know, you get basically
these paramilitaries that are sort of the third wave after
the army goes in, and that stuff is very scary
or probably we're probably gonna see more of that, and yeah,
but but but but I think it's it's kind of
important that there's there there's an extent to which again
(20:06):
you'll see them having their own mercenaries. But a lot
of the time it's there's some kind of thing when
when when companies really need to kill someone, they tend
to outsource that to aid like another sort of paramilitary organization.
That's like not directly in their supply chain. It's like
they thought directly under the train in command. Mhm. So yeah,
(20:29):
that's that's a good and fun time that we'll probably
just get worse mhm. Speaking of corporate uh funkori or whatever.
You get a Coca Cola add? I hope, I hope
you do. Got a Coca Cola add because nothing soothes
my quench like a cherry vanilla Coca Cola. Nothing soothes
(20:50):
your quench. That's what I said. Those are words that
came out of a mouth. We're back, okay, Robert. Somebody
had a question about back when you worked at Track,
(21:11):
about a woman who was hiding from their family. The
end of article, you mentioned that you haven't heard from
her in a couple of weeks leading up to and
they want to know if you've ever heard from her again.
So yeah, that's a bummer. The pseudonym I'm I'm not
going to use her real name in this, but the
pseudonym I used for her in the article was as Am.
She was a woman who lived in Um the EU
(21:32):
and uh was under threat of honor killing from her
family who were from Pakistan in origin Um because she
was an atheist, was not UM religious hardliner UM and
didn't want to be. And for years she had kind
of hidden that from her family, Like she'd moved out
on her own, but she'd hidden the fact that, like
she had a boyfriend, she'd hidden the fact that she'd
(21:53):
liked played dungeons all of this stuff, like she played
D and D and was like scared that, like that
was like her dad would literally kill her. And this
is a thing that happens, This is a thing that
happens in the United States and the EU. UM. It's
a problem with like fundamentalist um Islam, and that's not
the only religion there's honor killings as a result on.
But that was her specific situation. One of the things
she was frightened about is her family would go back
(22:14):
to Pakistan regularly, and she was concerned. She wanted to
go because it was the only way to see her grandparents,
but she was also concerned that if her parents found
out when they went back, they would basically imprison her
somewhere where she would not be able to get out
and get back to her home. And she would be
forced to be married off or something. So she was
working with an organization UM in the country in the
(22:36):
EU where she lived that helped people extricate themselves and
and the kind of one of the last things she
told me is that, like, well, the things she was
looking at doing because she was so worried about her
dad was a total break. Was like one day, with
the help of this organization, she would just be gone
and in another part of the EU and would have
a complete break from her life and would completely stop
(22:57):
living as the identity she had had her entire life. UM.
And I never heard from her again after that, after
like three or four different interview sessions, and I still
have not uh. And my hope is that she did
the thing she said she was going to do, and
she just completely burned that email and every other way
people had of getting in touch with her. UM. And
she's doing great now. But I really have no idea. UM,
(23:20):
I have absolutely no idea what happened to her. Oh uh,
so we would people want an update on the quest
for eel horse. Uh. Still no, still no horse. Still
have not found an entire horse carcass um. But but
one day it'll happen. You know it'll happen. Okay, it's
(23:44):
gonna be good. Garrison. That gator that I shoved a
turkey or a duck inside and a turkey next too,
was pretty good. It was great after I took it
out of the pit as you were wrestling people screaming. Well,
that's the only way to properly cook it. The right
amount of time is to get drunk enough that people
have to fight you to remove it from the fire gear.
(24:05):
That's how cooking works. I don't know, if you've done
much of it in your life, you'll you'll understand one day.
This This is a question that I find interesting because
I feel like it really must understand not to like
insult the first asking it. But I think that that's
that's not that's not not what I'm trying to do. Um.
The question is, um, what population can the post capitalist
(24:28):
world sustain and thrive on with our ideas and concepts?
A billion? Like we currently have six billion to a
billion less than ability? Like how how do people are
you willing to lose to achieve sustainability? Because I forget
that the community and are optimistic with proper technology and
ecosustainability techniques we can maintain a population close to what
we have now. And Yeah, I feel like just the
(24:49):
framing of this question kind of approaches our current problems
and the solutions we have in a weird way, because
I don't think we're not trying to reach a eek population.
We're trying to make sure the people that we have
have enough stuff to live well, and we have that
right now. We we we overproduce everything. We make about
(25:11):
one and a half times as much food as we
need to to feed everybody. Yet there are billions and
millions of people who go hungry. So it's not a
so like it's approaching this question. Yeah, so approaching this
question in terms of, like how could the post capitalist
world thrive on our ideas and like I, we're not
trying to like reach a certain population number, where I
(25:35):
think going it from that way is kind of a
little silly because I feel like it should be the
opposite is. But yeah, I don't know why we don't
think we need to start with population and then go down.
The point is is, look what we have, here's the people.
Let's distribute this like a network instead of a top
down kind of system. Yeah, I think that one of
the things you have to if you're taught, if you're
(25:57):
trying to talk about social ecology, one of the things
you have to resist, UM is this idea that like
they're overpopulation is any part of the problem. It is not.
Consumption is a problem, um, But there's plenty of resources.
The problem is again one of allocation. And if you
were to actually develop a much more equitable society where
(26:19):
people were getting enough, one of the things that we
have seen demographically all over the world when um the
level of kind of UM, when the the sort of
resources available per capita and a population increases, is people
have less kids um and And like I think that, yeah,
it's certainly good to say that, like, in a world
(26:40):
that is more equitable, the human population will naturally level
off and decrease somewhat. But that the thing that's not
the same as saying that, like, we need to decrease
the population. We need to increase um equity um and
and make sure that people have access to the resources
that they need UM and also that people who are
(27:02):
massively over consuming aren't allowed to do that anymore. You know,
that will solve the problems and scale back all of
the resources being put towards useless growth and predicted towards
better distribution, thus actually mean like the questioner used the
term like post capitalist, I don't think we're gonna get
to a post capitalist world ever, like, at least at
(27:22):
least not when I'm allowed. I don't think like a world. No.
Will there be post capitalist areas, probably, but we're never
gonna get there. There's never gonna be a post capitalist world.
I don't. I don't. I don't think that. I also
think it's entirely possible that we will reach points that
people in the time will not necessarily consider post capitalist
because it will be the same states and a lot
of the same institutions organizations that were there as a kid.
(27:44):
But people who were, you know, looking at it from
a perspective today might consider post capitalist because that's generally
how change happens. You know. Yeah, about like how democracy
increased in in the UK, but they still had like
a king. It's like when did they they're not, they
never really reached post mod anarchy. But it's also not
the same system that they were run by in like
four hundred, you know, it's wildly different and there's much
(28:05):
more representation for more people. But it it's that is
not you know that there's also you also have your
your Soviet unions and your your killing of czars, and
which which is fine, and and and and and I
I like killings ours. But change happens in a variety
of ways, and change can be revolutionary in its effect
(28:28):
without being a clear break. Yeah. I'm just trying to
think of like how we're talking about like the capitalist
world thriving, Like I don't I don't view eight billion
people thriving right now even with that like a lot
of like it's not like it's that's not what's happening
right now, And we need to change the way like
(28:50):
distribution of resources works drastically, and doing that will make
everyone's lives a whole lot better. And it will also
maybe about some of the endless growth and those things
aren't opposites, um And I just I don't know how
like we can say those things, but the path to
getting there is certainly a lot more ambiguous. Yeah, And
(29:14):
I think that that's I think one of the ways
in which the left goes wrong often is kind of
looking at things that have been tried before and and
didn't didn't didn't do the trick and saying like what
we need is we need us another Bolshevik revolution. You know,
we need to bring back that you hammer and sickle.
And it's like, well, you know, they gave it the
(29:35):
old College try and they did not win. UM. And
you can be angry at that or whatever, or you
can be like, Okay, it's the same, and hey, it's
it's every tendency. I can look at the fucking Maknos
and be like, well, that was based as hell, and
you know what, it didn't do the fucking trick. UM.
So I think there's a degree of humility that needs
to be had in terms of like what actual, what
(29:58):
actual change that makes a more livable world will look
like in the way in which That's one of the
reasons I did enjoy Kim Stanley Robinson's Ministry of the
Future is a lot of it is about the end
of capitalism in a way that is not UM. It's
it's it. It doesn't look like a lot of ends
of capitalism have have kind of been posited by UM.
(30:20):
There's a lot of uh strong arming bankers into like
forcing high level economic changes that put insto like really
extractive systems and whatnot UM, and it's it's it's interesting.
It was kind of an imagining of how the transition
could begin UM in a way that that isn't commonly
talked about UM, at least on the left. And I
(30:42):
thought it was valuable for that, And I think people
should be I think there's I think that UM UM
people can be more creative in how they envisioned the
way that might look than they they often are. And
I feel like this question actually relates to like stuff
like dual power really well, because our our goal individuals
is not feeding eight billion people. Our goal is to
(31:03):
get a garden enough so that we can feed most
of our friends off of stuff that we grew for
like the summer, right, Like that's like that's what our
goal is to is to build it from that way
instead of saying, like how how can we feed New
York in a climate sustainable way? That is a very
different question than being like if we want to integrate
(31:26):
solar punk and like eco sustainability stuff into our lives now,
because if we don't do it, no one really else
is really going to. Let's start with the people you
actually already have connections with, because a lot of it
is is about building like horizontal connections as opposed to
defaulting to this top down system of who has what,
who needs what? And this is when we when we venture,
(31:48):
when we dare to venture into the subreddit. One of
the things I see people like critiquing a lot is like, well,
you're you know, they keep talking about like all of
these little like home gardening and like canning and and
and kind of these community level solutions, but that's not
going to deal with like this massive systemic problem. And
it's like, oh, it's not all about that. There's there's
One of the methods in which you can ensure change
(32:11):
is keeping you and yours alive and committed on change.
And part of that is ex hyper local solutions UM
that also involve increasing your own idea of your autonomy
and your own and your own understanding of things like
the food cycle, which have an impact on what you
like vote for and what you support pushing for on
(32:31):
like a societal level, the things that you come to
better understand in your daily life, and and so getting
involved in all of these things guerilla gardening and whatnot
UM has an impact on that. All I do think
people underestimate, like the largest crop by acreage in the
United States by a long shot, is fucking lawns and
replacing lawns with either zero escaping just to increase carbon
(32:52):
capture and reduce water usage, or with some sort of
food growth. Doing a mix of that for the vast
majority of like lawn area in the United States actually
would be a significant thing on a global level. Recommend
everyone the Book of Food not lawns. Yeah, there's it's
that that would not be a meaningless change, and it
is something that people can have an impact on because
(33:15):
it is the kind of thing that if we were
to get popular enough, there's a Pokemon point, you know,
where it where it becomes a trend um and and
like Pokemon, if it gets popular enough, it will never die.
That's what we say about all of our stuff on
our show. If it if it becomes like Pokemon or
or n f T point, if that's But I don't
(33:35):
think in FT Pokemon is so much better than any
n f T. Although the day that this drops, that
will probably announce the Pokemon n FT game, which will
be the final coffin in the biosphere. All of all
of all of my Pokemons are gone. I've been had
all my apes gone. That was my favorite post of
(33:57):
the holiday season. Oh, Robert, do you want to give
an update on After the Revolution? That was asked a
couple of times. Yeah, seel, I'm three chapters in. Um,
it'll be done, hopefully at some point this year. Garrison.
Garrison has a question on that. Are you going to
pay someone else to code the book? No? No, no,
(34:18):
we pay you, Garrison. I don't want to code this. Yeah,
well I have to work on the Daily Show. Now
I cannot code this. We all have things to do
we don't want to do. Oh gosh, alright, I'm so sorry, Garrison,
so sorry. We'll have you code some other people's books
(34:38):
just to get get practiced. Stoff, no more coding. I
will not allow it. There are there there are experts
who can do this a lot prettier than I can
with my I think, Garrison, I consider you an expert.
Now ope, no, in in in E pub coding. I'll
put that on my resume. Well, I think that does
(35:01):
it for us today, folks. If you want to follow
us on social media so you can watch us promote
our own shows again, you can go to Cool's own
Media on Twitter, Instagram, and happen here pod and wouldn't
that be lovely? We get so much more connections through online.
That's wow? That really do I love online? Yeah? And uh,
we're doing it Behind the Bastards live stream digital show
(35:25):
with prop on. That doesn't sound right, That doesn't This
bit is so not funny everything time, it's not a bit.
I'm just dreading it. I'm dreading it to but we're
doing it. February moment House dot Com tickets still available.
They are a moment how star come slash Behind the Bastards?
Can I them scalpel them to the fans? I in
(35:50):
the scarcity is the key? Well do that if you
have disposable income and want to watch Robert talk Okay, yeah, yeah,
more than we already do. I guarantee you it'll be
worth it. Well that's the episode. Thank you for listening.
I hope everyone has uh better two that would be nice.
(36:14):
And I hope everyone has an identical two down to
the day and until in May you realize that you're
actually in like a groundhog Day style loop. Um, and
then you would achieve nirvauna if I'm remembering how the
movie Groundhog Day went properly? Sure, Uh, Yeah, that sounds
that sounds great. Have a good year, makes some changes,
(36:37):
make connections with people around you. There there you just
just define them. Talk to people who look like they
have cool politics or start doing cool things. You know,
and started starting start doing cool things. Yeah, we should
address one last thing, which is the question people ask
that gets asked a lot, but we probably can't address enough,
which is like, there's no one around me doing any
(36:59):
of this mutual A stuff. There's nobody around me engaging
any of the stuff that I want to get How
do how do I get organized and get involved? Number one?
There are people around you doing that kind of ship.
It may just be hard to find because of where
you are. UM. But if you start doing ship, if
you like, the simplest thing I can say is try
and figure out where there's a need and start filling
(37:19):
it UM. Often you will start meeting other people who
are engaged in adjacent projects or even the same thing UM.
And that's a way to get into it if you
are trying to start, if you actually get so far
as to start serving a need in your area in
a mutual aid capacity UM and trying to start organizing
(37:41):
and whatnot, and you're doing shit, feel free to hit
us up on email reach out. We are happy to
signal boost and signpost people who are have actually started
doing shit. Um. It's one of those things. Please don't
come to I think this might be a cool idea,
but if you start doing shit, um, and you can
provide some evidence that you're you're doing something in your
(38:01):
community that's not currently being done that is a mutual
aid type thing, or even even a charitable type thing
if it's if you're doing it, we will try to
help signal boost and and can be very useful in
that capacity. So so it's not easy necessarily, especially depending
on where you live, but like you do, it's always
(38:22):
possible to find a need and fill it, you know. Yeah,
I found that, uh definitely was easier before the pandemic.
But a way that I've met people that are a
little bit more open minded to the same things that
I'm open minded too, was going to like local comedy
shows or things things that like farmers markets, farmers market,
(38:47):
you know, wherever kind of weird, not not in the
normal culture people will go to. You'll probably find someone
there with radical politics. Yeah, that's problem, all those types
of like like you know, countercultural subcultural spaces. You'll probably
find someone there who's wearing a back patch that is
something like smashed to something. You know, so like just
(39:10):
like you, you have to you know you're not going
to find them by staying at your in your house
and scrolling on Twitter. I mean they probably not. You
have to kind of go into the real world. Um
as scary as the meat space. Maybe yeah. And I
would say another thing to keep in mind if you
are in kind of a more conservative area, and even
if you do identify as an anarchist, you don't have
(39:32):
to frame it that way. You can always call yourself
a libertarian municipal list and none of the people who
might be offended by anarchists will listen past libertarian and
they'll decide you're fine. And that's a great way to
to start that Like, uh, an ironic means the same
thing more or less. I mean there's other kinds of
(39:52):
anarchists who are but like most people who say they're anarchists,
if you were to call them libertarian municipalists would be like,
all right, whatever, yeah, not me, don't call me that,
but call call Chris that constantly. That's that's that's that's it.
We'll be back tomorrow or maybe not. I don't know what,
(40:12):
probably tomorrow, probably tomorrow. Maybe that's what I'm saying, and
it's been said. If you say so, it could happen
Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more
podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone
media dot com, or check us out on the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
(40:34):
You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated
monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks
for listening,
Welcome back to it could happen here the podcast where
Jay your Boltonaro was once again in the hospital getting
all of the facings sucked out of his in the hospital.
The most consistently dying man in the world. You know what,
(00:25):
this man in history, you know, actually literally full of
ship again. You know what? You know what this means.
It approximately three four weeks, Stephen Crowder is going to
get some horrible illness. And if we said to the hospitals,
well the cycle, this is the only like the cycle.
(00:47):
My hope for both of them is that they find
out that each has an obscure disease that can only
be cured by piping ship from the other into them,
And so they just hook them up via a tube
and they're just sucking poop out of each of them
and putting it into the other person. That would be
very funny. Hot All right, what's our first question? Our
first question? So this was specifically addressed to Chris, so
(01:08):
Chris you can answer first, But I think this is
a question for for everyone. Really, what is your favorite
piece of history that you haven't been able to talk
about yet on the show that isn't deserving of a
whole episode, favorite piece of I mean, we ain't talked
about the Zapatista as yet because I don't I don't
(01:29):
yet feel comfortable, uh with with my level of knowledge there.
But it's definitely history that's extremely relevant to the kind
of ship we talked about on the show. Have I
talked about the water and gas wars and Bolivia on
the show? We've talked about that at all? Either? Yeah,
(01:50):
I mean althought. I mean that that probably is deserving
of its own episode. But absolutely a bunch of people
just literally like blocking every road in the entire country
and starving out the ruling class because they can't like
import food into the city because they've blocked every single road.
Extremely cool, I guess in terms of like really short,
not deserving of its own episode, I don't know either,
(02:14):
because I've I've been able to elongate all my periods
into episodes. Yeah, I don't know that there's anything we
wouldn't cover. There's certainly things we haven't covered yet for
a variety of reasons. Often just like I don't feel
like we've had the time to do. There's a lot
of work. Yeah, it's like why why haven't why haven't
we done a Mao episodes like do you know how
much ship that motherfucker got in his life? I have
(02:35):
been like mentally like psychologically preparing myself to start working
on mat like this is a ah, that's that Actually, no,
it's the Mango Colts. It's definitely the Mango Colts. Did
you did you did you know about this? No? The
Mango Colts. Yeah, okay, So so Mao got like I
forget who was I want to say it was the
(02:58):
Prime Minister of Pakistan some something like dignitary like gave
him a man. This is this is like this is
the beginning of the cultural revolution. Somebody gives him a
mango and he like hands this mango off to like
a red mango and like they like like this this
turns into like a cult. Like people like they take
this mango, they like preserve it. It's it's like they
(03:18):
have they have like a shrine to the mango. And
like like there's this whole cult apparatus like builds up
around just people getting mangoes as like tokens of Mao's favors.
This just like this this massive things that is this
This this spreads like wildfire. It's like people are doing
this in like the far western reaches of China where
like like in places where like there's like like one
(03:41):
of things culture with Like there there are places in
China where like civil wars breakout and it takes people
like a week to like send representatives like across China
to go like talk to the Central Committee to argue
their case. And like even in those places they have
mango cults and it is it is wild. The culture
revolution is a is a it is a time. It is. Well,
(04:01):
I know what I'm getting everyone for Christmas this year.
They're my favorite fruit. Like, well, we'll see if the
species survives this next summer. Oh we will, Yeah, we'll
just be growing. So just be growing in Siberia. Mangoes
(04:23):
sprouting from the corpses of fucking antelope. That is beautiful. Um,
I can't think of anything. Next question, okay, uh speaking
of history, I like this one. If you could fight
anyone in history, wait for it and lose, who would
you fight? And why who would I fight and lose
(04:45):
and lose? Like you still get like a few good
hits in or something, but you'd lose, David Bowie because
it would be hot. Next question other people could answer
I guess no. I think that's a good that's the
perfect Yeah. I would happily be hit by David Bowie,
so sure, why not there? Yeah, And I know that
(05:08):
David Bowie really loved to hit teenagers. I would be
totally hitting. In the other sense, I would be fine
with anything. I don't care when it comes to Bowie. Wow,
that's problematic. Problematic. Uh huh. We got a few questions
about the ethics of leaving the United States as things
(05:31):
get worse. Okay, that's one. Yeah, And this is something
that I know we've talked about. You've got that get
out of America and I see. That's the thing is that,
like I already have my Canadian passport, so that is
something that I can do at any time. And that's
something that I probably will do at some point, because
(05:52):
one I can see myself in my theorties and forties,
living in Canada will be a lot easier in a
lot of ways in terms of like how much money
it will cost for me to live and pay certain things,
Like living in Canada at a certain point will just
make a lot more sense for me. So yeah, I
probably will move up. Um. And I also know that
getting past Canadian border patrol. Not that hard in terms
(06:15):
of other people wanting to go legally or illegally. That's
it is actually pretty easy to get to get up there. Um,
if you want to do it legally, that's definitely a
lot a lot more work, but also not impossible. Um yeah,
I think. I mean, like it's important to know that,
like moving to somewhere else is not escaping the effects,
because the effects are going to reach everywhere, but it
(06:37):
can have a lot of advantages, um, especially kids. Yeah,
So I I say moving up is or moving away
from the States is a decent thing for a lot
of people. I don't feel the need to stay and
fight for something that I don't really care about what's
in the first place anyway, UM, So sure do what
(06:59):
may because you happy in the time that you have alive.
I feel like that's a that says as ethical as
you need to get Yeah, I don't think anyone has
a responsibility to like stay in uh fight to the
death uh in in a collapsing country. Um As as
(07:20):
a general rule, I'm very sympathetic towards refugees, And that's
kind of what you would be if you're talking about
fleeing the United States because you're it's in the process
of falling apart, and things are you suspect a lot
about to get a lot more violent, especially if you
have again, like a family kids. Um I I had
options to do that that I've I've chosen at this
(07:42):
point not to UM, not to pursue UM, but UH,
I get white people would and as a general rule,
like I spent I spent once when I was UM
in UH in Bosnia and Serbia talking to survivors of
the genocide there in the nineties. UM. I took a
train ride UM from Sarajevo to like a little town
(08:06):
near Strabernitza and Uh. During the train ride, I wound
up like hanging out with this dude who had been
born and raised in Yugoslavia and had been living in
Canada since the Civil War, and he, like very through
in his kind of broken English, explained like, yeah, when
the war broke out, all of my friends, all of
these other young guys I knew, were like, well, you know,
(08:27):
we're gonna fight, We're gonna fight, And I said no, no, no,
no no. Went to Canada and this is the first
time I've been back and that was the smart thing
to do. Um, So I'm not I mean, if you
can get the if you can get out and find
a place that's safer, as Garrison said, like there's there's
nothing I think that inherently behooves you to spend your
uh limited time on this planet struggling, and especially if
(08:51):
you've got a family, like doing what you can to
put them in a safer position is great. That said,
none of it's a permanent or even necessarily a long
term solution. Like idea of moving to Canada has a
lot of appeal, but like if you think that Canada
is going to keep being what would a lot of
Americans see it as as the United States collapses into
like fascism. I don't know how realistic a proposition that
(09:13):
really is. And it's the same for a lot of places,
Like all of these problems are global problems, and moving
geographically unless you're wealthy enough to move to like some
fortified compound protected by contractors in a place that is
actually insulated from climate change to a significant extent, um
is not the does not bring the degree of security
(09:34):
you might expect. Um, I do think there is. I
do think it is generally speaking, a noble and positive thing,
uh to to to stay and try to make things
better where you are. But um, you know, I think everybody,
I think everyone. I think every like single person, whether
they admit it or not, would leave at a certain
point if they possibly could. Um, And I don't think
(09:56):
anyone is. I don't think anyone owes it to the
world to like, uh die in a place that they
hate just because um, that's where they were born and
(10:19):
we're bad. Okay, what tool besides bolt cutters should we
all own in a collapse situation? First of all, bolt cutters,
that should not be your first picture to for a tool. No, No,
it should be an angle grinder with a diamond blade. No.
Even like water filters gotten me out of a number
(10:41):
of types water filtration systems. There's a starters, like, there's
a lot of there's a lot of stuff if not
even's not water filtration, you can get tablets or honestly,
like you can have a little hand pump filter and
water purification tablets along with a little you know, there's
a number of things that are that should be in
a go bag away. You do get some amount of
(11:02):
of already clean water in a way to get more
clean water, enough food to at least deal with three
to five days. Um, some rope. UM. A good knife
multi tool is even better in most situations if you
have if you don't mind the weight, a belt knife
and a multi tool would be great. Or a multi
tool in a little hand axe, which depending on where
(11:24):
you live, might be more useful in splitting wood. A
good fire starter. UM. Some amount of rubbing alcohol, which
is always a handy thing to have on hand. UM.
Either maps or you know, batteries for an electronic device
that might be able to act as a map. Um. Yeah,
(11:44):
that that's all useful stuff. UM. I do I I
do keep in the boot of my car generally an
angle grinder. UM. I have come into, especially living out
in the middle of nowhere, a couple of situations like
sometimes somebody has a health emergency and there is a
fence in the way. UM, and it's it has been
something that is and is I think going to be
easier for boat cutters are good at what they do,
(12:07):
they also require a lot of forearm and upper body
strength that is not going to be as much of
an option for people. So angle grinder not a bad
thing to have in any sort of like it, especially
if you like if you're if you're planning a kid,
like I want to keep ship in my car because
the wildfires are coming right, Um, Well, you're probably don't
want a battery powered saw, um because depending on the
capable Even if you have a very capable off roading vehicle,
(12:28):
everyone I know who does serious overlanding is like, well
you keep a fucking chainsaw in there because sometimes you
need to cut wood out of the way and you're
just not going to get your car over it. Um.
So it really depends on what you're doing, and like
what the what the the kind of potential threats you're
worried about are um, But yeah, I think the basics
(12:50):
are way to get water, some amount of food, ability
to start a fire. Something like a space blanket is
useful if you live in a place where it actually
gets hold. You should have a space blanket and a
wool blanket or a couple of wool blankets, because those
will retain heat much better. Wool keeps like eight of
(13:10):
its insulating capacity even when wet, and like layering wool
and survival blankets UM can be a really effective way
to keep yourself from dying in in in bad weather situations. Um.
That said, depending on where you are, there may be
no realistic way to protect yourself in the like if
you are in certain parts of the Midwest at certain
(13:31):
parts of the winter, it may not matter so much,
like what blankets you have at access to frustrating the
will there's and there's no like structures around you, then yeah,
it's negative. There's only so much. Yeah, I do love
collecting a lock bypass tools. It's one of my favorite
things is just to have these practice using them. Um.
(13:54):
Something I got for when I went to the Earth
First Gathering that worked out pretty well was a foldable
solar panel that connects to USB. That's enough to keep
my phone alive always. So in terms of always wanting
a map, this little foldable thing is enough to keep
my phone able to have a map assuming I have
cell service. So I was skeptical of how much this
(14:16):
thing could work. Um, and it it did a decent
enough job. It even kept it even kept like my
iPad pro um uh powered as well, so it had
had had a decent amount of square footage once you
unroll it. So that was very useful. But yeah, I
mean I I really like luck bypass stuff. Um, it's
(14:37):
one of one of one of my other hobbies. So
this is, you know, a variety of tools in that
type that it's a nice to get, like a decent
collection of also like especially now, but probably in general,
like have masks like just I mean just in general,
like sure have masks, have lots of them. Make sure
you can change them. Yeah, I have a gas mask
(15:00):
if that's at all physically like respond like fiscally possible
for you. Mira is the one I think Garrison and
I would both recommend to the want really good gas
wonderful again all of these kids, there's the kid are like, okay,
what is the what is what's necessary? And then there's
like all right, if you have money or if you
(15:21):
have time that you want to learn extra skills? What
are other things like lock picks? If you're just a
random Joe and you've never like, don't throw lock picks
in your kid, if you've never done any lock pick ship,
they're not going to help you. Um. But if that
that is a skill that is worth picking up and
that will make you like more resilient. Um yeah um
oh And a fourteen point nine millimeter anti material rifle. UM,
(15:44):
you're always gonna need one of those. They're they stay
supersonic it up to three and a half miles UM,
which is really useful, So definitely, definitely, and they're only
you probably aren't going to spend more than dollars getting
one set up, So it's it's really for the price
of of of a fairly new Toyota Prius, you could
have UM an anti material rifle that con pierce armored
(16:07):
vehicles at at several miles distance, And really what is
more pragmatic a survival tool than that, and we for it.
It's only like around that's just a moderately expensive meal
per bullet. Christopher, Uh, do you think that corporations like
(16:30):
Walmart or Amazon could become more military stick as? Yeah?
I mean yeah, I think I think absolutely. The trend
that worries me as Amazon's increasing UM collaborations with in
deeper connections with like the FBI and other kind of
law enforcement agencies. UM. The degree to which target has
(16:50):
also like with the FBI and like with other agencies,
because they're they're anti shrink department and whatnot. They're like
they're the surveillance they've built to stop theft is so advanced.
They have one of the best crime labs in the
whole United States. Yeah, organizations like Tiger Swan, which is
a mercenary group that the Dakota Pipeline people, the Dapple
(17:11):
folks like hired to crack down on the Standing Rock
protests and have have worked in other There's other organizations
like that that we're active during the BLM protests and
kind of the I I do think we're seeing a
pair of militarization of a lot of these corporation, a
lot of these corporations in order to protect their what
they see is their financial interests um and that that
(17:34):
is that is proceeding rapidly. And it's not the thing
that I'm not most I'm not most worried about them.
Like do like having armed forces, although there will be
some degree of that. There's already that's already happened, Like
in Portland and downtown Portland there are armed effectively like
mercenaries guarding certain businesses and certain areas like as a
(17:55):
result of like you know, to deal with quote unquote
the gun crime or whatever property crime that's raised. But
the thing that I think is most concerning is the
degree to which they are professionalizing a paramilitary surveillance apparatus UM,
and Amazon has done it to do stuff like crackdown
on union organizing and whatnot. Like, So, yeah, I'm very
concerned with that. I'm I I think that the the
(18:18):
dimension of it that's most frightening is not necessarily like
the shadow run, you know, corporations buying armies, but rather
corporations buying like intelligence agencies. UM is kind of the
thing that I think will actually be the biggest threat
UM because in a lot of cases, generally speaking, if
I have to deal with an armed security guard or
a cop, that security guard is going to be less
(18:39):
of a pain in the ass than the cop. UM.
Not always, but as a general rule, I'm less worried
about security guards than cops, even armed ones. I think
another thing that's important to keep in mind is that, yeah,
I mean, so's like I don't. I don't. I really
don't think there's a danger that we're going to go
back to like East India company style, like people with
(19:00):
mass armies, because it's it's literally too expensive, Like you can't,
it's it's too expensive, and the armies that exist already
do that. Yeah, yeah, you don't need them. But but
I mean, I think that the thing the thing that's
like scary outside of the intelligence stuff, which is terrifying,
but it's the stuff they do down like like you
call it down the supply chain, which is like you know,
the Cocolan murdering union organizers with paramilitaries, right, they tend
(19:24):
to work through like like you know, the corporations will
back rebel groups, right, corporations will back like you know,
in Colombia, you see a lot of this is like
you have these sort of like these I mean something
about some of the back just directly by landholding holding corporations.
Some of them are backed by just individual large landholders.
(19:44):
But you get these, like you know, you get basically
these paramilitaries that are sort of the third wave after
the army goes in, and that stuff is very scary
or probably we're probably gonna see more of that, and yeah,
but but but but I think it's it's kind of
important that there's there there's an extent to which again
(20:06):
you'll see them having their own mercenaries. But a lot
of the time it's there's some kind of thing when
when when companies really need to kill someone, they tend
to outsource that to aid like another sort of paramilitary organization.
That's like not directly in their supply chain. It's like
they thought directly under the train in command. Mhm. So yeah,
(20:29):
that's that's a good and fun time that we'll probably
just get worse mhm. Speaking of corporate uh funkori or whatever.
You get a Coca Cola add? I hope, I hope
you do. Got a Coca Cola add because nothing soothes
my quench like a cherry vanilla Coca Cola. Nothing soothes
(20:50):
your quench. That's what I said. Those are words that
came out of a mouth. We're back, okay, Robert. Somebody
had a question about back when you worked at Track,
(21:11):
about a woman who was hiding from their family. The
end of article, you mentioned that you haven't heard from
her in a couple of weeks leading up to and
they want to know if you've ever heard from her again.
So yeah, that's a bummer. The pseudonym I'm I'm not
going to use her real name in this, but the
pseudonym I used for her in the article was as Am.
She was a woman who lived in Um the EU
(21:32):
and uh was under threat of honor killing from her
family who were from Pakistan in origin Um because she
was an atheist, was not UM religious hardliner UM and
didn't want to be. And for years she had kind
of hidden that from her family, Like she'd moved out
on her own, but she'd hidden the fact that, like
she had a boyfriend, she'd hidden the fact that she'd
(21:53):
liked played dungeons all of this stuff, like she played
D and D and was like scared that, like that
was like her dad would literally kill her. And this
is a thing that happens, This is a thing that
happens in the United States and the EU. UM. It's
a problem with like fundamentalist um Islam, and that's not
the only religion there's honor killings as a result on.
But that was her specific situation. One of the things
she was frightened about is her family would go back
(22:14):
to Pakistan regularly, and she was concerned. She wanted to
go because it was the only way to see her grandparents,
but she was also concerned that if her parents found
out when they went back, they would basically imprison her
somewhere where she would not be able to get out
and get back to her home. And she would be
forced to be married off or something. So she was
working with an organization UM in the country in the
(22:36):
EU where she lived that helped people extricate themselves and
and the kind of one of the last things she
told me is that, like, well, the things she was
looking at doing because she was so worried about her
dad was a total break. Was like one day, with
the help of this organization, she would just be gone
and in another part of the EU and would have
a complete break from her life and would completely stop
(22:57):
living as the identity she had had her entire life. UM.
And I never heard from her again after that, after
like three or four different interview sessions, and I still
have not uh. And my hope is that she did
the thing she said she was going to do, and
she just completely burned that email and every other way
people had of getting in touch with her. UM. And
she's doing great now. But I really have no idea. UM,
(23:20):
I have absolutely no idea what happened to her. Oh uh,
so we would people want an update on the quest
for eel horse. Uh. Still no, still no horse. Still
have not found an entire horse carcass um. But but
one day it'll happen. You know it'll happen. Okay, it's
(23:44):
gonna be good. Garrison. That gator that I shoved a
turkey or a duck inside and a turkey next too,
was pretty good. It was great after I took it
out of the pit as you were wrestling people screaming. Well,
that's the only way to properly cook it. The right
amount of time is to get drunk enough that people
have to fight you to remove it from the fire gear.
(24:05):
That's how cooking works. I don't know, if you've done
much of it in your life, you'll you'll understand one day.
This This is a question that I find interesting because
I feel like it really must understand not to like
insult the first asking it. But I think that that's
that's not that's not not what I'm trying to do. Um.
The question is, um, what population can the post capitalist
(24:28):
world sustain and thrive on with our ideas and concepts?
A billion? Like we currently have six billion to a
billion less than ability? Like how how do people are
you willing to lose to achieve sustainability? Because I forget
that the community and are optimistic with proper technology and
ecosustainability techniques we can maintain a population close to what
we have now. And Yeah, I feel like just the
(24:49):
framing of this question kind of approaches our current problems
and the solutions we have in a weird way, because
I don't think we're not trying to reach a eek population.
We're trying to make sure the people that we have
have enough stuff to live well, and we have that
right now. We we we overproduce everything. We make about
(25:11):
one and a half times as much food as we
need to to feed everybody. Yet there are billions and
millions of people who go hungry. So it's not a
so like it's approaching this question. Yeah, so approaching this
question in terms of, like how could the post capitalist
world thrive on our ideas and like I, we're not
trying to like reach a certain population number, where I
(25:35):
think going it from that way is kind of a
little silly because I feel like it should be the
opposite is. But yeah, I don't know why we don't
think we need to start with population and then go down.
The point is is, look what we have, here's the people.
Let's distribute this like a network instead of a top
down kind of system. Yeah, I think that one of
the things you have to if you're taught, if you're
(25:57):
trying to talk about social ecology, one of the things
you have to resist, UM is this idea that like
they're overpopulation is any part of the problem. It is not.
Consumption is a problem, um, But there's plenty of resources.
The problem is again one of allocation. And if you
were to actually develop a much more equitable society where
(26:19):
people were getting enough, one of the things that we
have seen demographically all over the world when um the
level of kind of UM, when the the sort of
resources available per capita and a population increases, is people
have less kids um and And like I think that, yeah,
it's certainly good to say that, like, in a world
(26:40):
that is more equitable, the human population will naturally level
off and decrease somewhat. But that the thing that's not
the same as saying that, like, we need to decrease
the population. We need to increase um equity um and
and make sure that people have access to the resources
that they need UM and also that people who are
(27:02):
massively over consuming aren't allowed to do that anymore. You know,
that will solve the problems and scale back all of
the resources being put towards useless growth and predicted towards
better distribution, thus actually mean like the questioner used the
term like post capitalist, I don't think we're gonna get
to a post capitalist world ever, like, at least at
(27:22):
least not when I'm allowed. I don't think like a world. No.
Will there be post capitalist areas, probably, but we're never
gonna get there. There's never gonna be a post capitalist world.
I don't. I don't. I don't think that. I also
think it's entirely possible that we will reach points that
people in the time will not necessarily consider post capitalist
because it will be the same states and a lot
of the same institutions organizations that were there as a kid.
(27:44):
But people who were, you know, looking at it from
a perspective today might consider post capitalist because that's generally
how change happens. You know. Yeah, about like how democracy
increased in in the UK, but they still had like
a king. It's like when did they they're not, they
never really reached post mod anarchy. But it's also not
the same system that they were run by in like
four hundred, you know, it's wildly different and there's much
(28:05):
more representation for more people. But it it's that is
not you know that there's also you also have your
your Soviet unions and your your killing of czars, and
which which is fine, and and and and and I
I like killings ours. But change happens in a variety
of ways, and change can be revolutionary in its effect
(28:28):
without being a clear break. Yeah. I'm just trying to
think of like how we're talking about like the capitalist
world thriving, Like I don't I don't view eight billion
people thriving right now even with that like a lot
of like it's not like it's that's not what's happening
right now, And we need to change the way like
(28:50):
distribution of resources works drastically, and doing that will make
everyone's lives a whole lot better. And it will also
maybe about some of the endless growth and those things
aren't opposites, um And I just I don't know how
like we can say those things, but the path to
getting there is certainly a lot more ambiguous. Yeah, And
(29:14):
I think that that's I think one of the ways
in which the left goes wrong often is kind of
looking at things that have been tried before and and
didn't didn't didn't do the trick and saying like what
we need is we need us another Bolshevik revolution. You know,
we need to bring back that you hammer and sickle.
And it's like, well, you know, they gave it the
(29:35):
old College try and they did not win. UM. And
you can be angry at that or whatever, or you
can be like, Okay, it's the same, and hey, it's
it's every tendency. I can look at the fucking Maknos
and be like, well, that was based as hell, and
you know what, it didn't do the fucking trick. UM.
So I think there's a degree of humility that needs
to be had in terms of like what actual, what
(29:58):
actual change that makes a more livable world will look
like in the way in which That's one of the
reasons I did enjoy Kim Stanley Robinson's Ministry of the
Future is a lot of it is about the end
of capitalism in a way that is not UM. It's
it's it. It doesn't look like a lot of ends
of capitalism have have kind of been posited by UM.
(30:20):
There's a lot of uh strong arming bankers into like
forcing high level economic changes that put insto like really
extractive systems and whatnot UM, and it's it's it's interesting.
It was kind of an imagining of how the transition
could begin UM in a way that that isn't commonly
talked about UM, at least on the left. And I
(30:42):
thought it was valuable for that, And I think people
should be I think there's I think that UM UM
people can be more creative in how they envisioned the
way that might look than they they often are. And
I feel like this question actually relates to like stuff
like dual power really well, because our our goal individuals
is not feeding eight billion people. Our goal is to
(31:03):
get a garden enough so that we can feed most
of our friends off of stuff that we grew for
like the summer, right, Like that's like that's what our
goal is to is to build it from that way
instead of saying, like how how can we feed New
York in a climate sustainable way? That is a very
different question than being like if we want to integrate
(31:26):
solar punk and like eco sustainability stuff into our lives now,
because if we don't do it, no one really else
is really going to. Let's start with the people you
actually already have connections with, because a lot of it
is is about building like horizontal connections as opposed to
defaulting to this top down system of who has what,
who needs what? And this is when we when we venture,
(31:48):
when we dare to venture into the subreddit. One of
the things I see people like critiquing a lot is like, well,
you're you know, they keep talking about like all of
these little like home gardening and like canning and and
and kind of these community level solutions, but that's not
going to deal with like this massive systemic problem. And
it's like, oh, it's not all about that. There's there's
One of the methods in which you can ensure change
(32:11):
is keeping you and yours alive and committed on change.
And part of that is ex hyper local solutions UM
that also involve increasing your own idea of your autonomy
and your own and your own understanding of things like
the food cycle, which have an impact on what you
like vote for and what you support pushing for on
(32:31):
like a societal level, the things that you come to
better understand in your daily life, and and so getting
involved in all of these things guerilla gardening and whatnot
UM has an impact on that. All I do think
people underestimate, like the largest crop by acreage in the
United States by a long shot, is fucking lawns and
replacing lawns with either zero escaping just to increase carbon
(32:52):
capture and reduce water usage, or with some sort of
food growth. Doing a mix of that for the vast
majority of like lawn area in the United States actually
would be a significant thing on a global level. Recommend
everyone the Book of Food not lawns. Yeah, there's it's
that that would not be a meaningless change, and it
is something that people can have an impact on because
(33:15):
it is the kind of thing that if we were
to get popular enough, there's a Pokemon point, you know,
where it where it becomes a trend um and and
like Pokemon, if it gets popular enough, it will never die.
That's what we say about all of our stuff on
our show. If it if it becomes like Pokemon or
or n f T point, if that's But I don't
(33:35):
think in FT Pokemon is so much better than any
n f T. Although the day that this drops, that
will probably announce the Pokemon n FT game, which will
be the final coffin in the biosphere. All of all
of all of my Pokemons are gone. I've been had
all my apes gone. That was my favorite post of
(33:57):
the holiday season. Oh, Robert, do you want to give
an update on After the Revolution? That was asked a
couple of times. Yeah, seel, I'm three chapters in. Um,
it'll be done, hopefully at some point this year. Garrison.
Garrison has a question on that. Are you going to
pay someone else to code the book? No? No, no,
(34:18):
we pay you, Garrison. I don't want to code this. Yeah,
well I have to work on the Daily Show. Now
I cannot code this. We all have things to do
we don't want to do. Oh gosh, alright, I'm so sorry, Garrison,
so sorry. We'll have you code some other people's books
(34:38):
just to get get practiced. Stoff, no more coding. I
will not allow it. There are there there are experts
who can do this a lot prettier than I can
with my I think, Garrison, I consider you an expert.
Now ope, no, in in in E pub coding. I'll
put that on my resume. Well, I think that does
(35:01):
it for us today, folks. If you want to follow
us on social media so you can watch us promote
our own shows again, you can go to Cool's own
Media on Twitter, Instagram, and happen here pod and wouldn't
that be lovely? We get so much more connections through online.
That's wow? That really do I love online? Yeah? And uh,
we're doing it Behind the Bastards live stream digital show
(35:25):
with prop on. That doesn't sound right, That doesn't This
bit is so not funny everything time, it's not a bit.
I'm just dreading it. I'm dreading it to but we're
doing it. February moment House dot Com tickets still available.
They are a moment how star come slash Behind the Bastards?
Can I them scalpel them to the fans? I in
(35:50):
the scarcity is the key? Well do that if you
have disposable income and want to watch Robert talk Okay, yeah, yeah,
more than we already do. I guarantee you it'll be
worth it. Well that's the episode. Thank you for listening.
I hope everyone has uh better two that would be nice.
(36:14):
And I hope everyone has an identical two down to
the day and until in May you realize that you're
actually in like a groundhog Day style loop. Um, and
then you would achieve nirvauna if I'm remembering how the
movie Groundhog Day went properly? Sure, Uh, Yeah, that sounds
that sounds great. Have a good year, makes some changes,
(36:37):
make connections with people around you. There there you just
just define them. Talk to people who look like they
have cool politics or start doing cool things. You know,
and started starting start doing cool things. Yeah, we should
address one last thing, which is the question people ask
that gets asked a lot, but we probably can't address enough,
which is like, there's no one around me doing any
(36:59):
of this mutual A stuff. There's nobody around me engaging
any of the stuff that I want to get How
do how do I get organized and get involved? Number one?
There are people around you doing that kind of ship.
It may just be hard to find because of where
you are. UM. But if you start doing ship, if
you like, the simplest thing I can say is try
and figure out where there's a need and start filling
(37:19):
it UM. Often you will start meeting other people who
are engaged in adjacent projects or even the same thing UM.
And that's a way to get into it if you
are trying to start, if you actually get so far
as to start serving a need in your area in
a mutual aid capacity UM and trying to start organizing
(37:41):
and whatnot, and you're doing shit, feel free to hit
us up on email reach out. We are happy to
signal boost and signpost people who are have actually started
doing shit. Um. It's one of those things. Please don't
come to I think this might be a cool idea,
but if you start doing shit, um, and you can
provide some evidence that you're you're doing something in your
(38:01):
community that's not currently being done that is a mutual
aid type thing, or even even a charitable type thing
if it's if you're doing it, we will try to
help signal boost and and can be very useful in
that capacity. So so it's not easy necessarily, especially depending
on where you live, but like you do, it's always
(38:22):
possible to find a need and fill it, you know. Yeah,
I found that, uh definitely was easier before the pandemic.
But a way that I've met people that are a
little bit more open minded to the same things that
I'm open minded too, was going to like local comedy
shows or things things that like farmers markets, farmers market,
(38:47):
you know, wherever kind of weird, not not in the
normal culture people will go to. You'll probably find someone
there with radical politics. Yeah, that's problem, all those types
of like like you know, countercultural subcultural spaces. You'll probably
find someone there who's wearing a back patch that is
something like smashed to something. You know, so like just
(39:10):
like you, you have to you know you're not going
to find them by staying at your in your house
and scrolling on Twitter. I mean they probably not. You
have to kind of go into the real world. Um
as scary as the meat space. Maybe yeah. And I
would say another thing to keep in mind if you
are in kind of a more conservative area, and even
if you do identify as an anarchist, you don't have
(39:32):
to frame it that way. You can always call yourself
a libertarian municipal list and none of the people who
might be offended by anarchists will listen past libertarian and
they'll decide you're fine. And that's a great way to
to start that Like, uh, an ironic means the same
thing more or less. I mean there's other kinds of
(39:52):
anarchists who are but like most people who say they're anarchists,
if you were to call them libertarian municipalists would be like,
all right, whatever, yeah, not me, don't call me that,
but call call Chris that constantly. That's that's that's that's it.
We'll be back tomorrow or maybe not. I don't know what,
(40:12):
probably tomorrow, probably tomorrow. Maybe that's what I'm saying, and
it's been said. If you say so, it could happen
Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more
podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone
media dot com, or check us out on the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
(40:34):
You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated
monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks
for listening,
It Could Happen Here News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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