October 4, 2023 • 38 mins
Mia chats with Alisa Mahjoub, an ex-member of the Unification Church and part of Deprogramming Imperialism about the Japanese government's reaction to the public outcry over their connection to the Unification Church and how the various factions of the cult have responded.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All media. It's it could happen here. The thing that's
happening is that Shinzo Wahabe is still dead one year on.
That man has not gone back from the dead. He
is still absolutely the most assassinated man of twenty twenty three,
(00:21):
twenty twenty two. That well, you know, honestly, given how
assassinated he is, we're giving him the credit for being
the most assassinated man of twenty twenty three. And what's
interesting about this assassination, and we talked about I talked
about this really briefly in my sort of intro thing
to the last episode that we ran about the Abbe assassination.
But this has been maybe the most successful political assassination
(00:45):
not done by the CIA in the last like seventy years,
like absolutely stunningly incredibly successful political assassination because specifically of
the political impact that the assassination has had on the
Unification Church probably better known as the Moonies, and how
it's been forcing the sort of Unification Church aligned ruling
(01:06):
Liberal Democratic Party of Japan to like have a serious
of embarrassing scandals where they revealed their like incredible intertwinement
with the church apparatus and all of the culture they've
been doing. And with me to talk about this is
Alisa Majub, who's an ex Unification Church member who got
out and who works with Deeprogramming Imperialism, which is a
(01:28):
group that tells the sort of still untold story of
how the Unification Church has worked with the CIA and
the Korean CIA and enormous parts of the sort of
the apparatus of the American imperial war machine to cause
untold suffering on the world. Lisa, Welcome, Welcome to the show. Welcome,
welcome back.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you appreciate it. I'm glad to be back.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, so I'm excited to talk with you about this
because we didn't really There's been a lot of very
very interesting stuff happening in the last couple of months
in Japan. But in order to do that, I think
we need to we need to sort of talk about
what this assassination was actually about. So the shooter, Tetsuya Yamagami,
(02:12):
killed Abe because he couldn't get to a He was
trying to kill a high ranking Unification Church guy and
he like couldn't get to him. And the reason he
was trying to do this is that his mom had
given I think like seventy thousand yen to the church.
I'm getting the number right, and had basically like, you know,
(02:33):
like this is I I yeah, I wanted to talk
to you a bit about this before we go into
more of the abbe stuff about how the church's financial
abuse works and how you know, like how how how
how how this person's mom was compelled to sort of
like literally give away all of their money to this cult.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Right, Well, I would say it's sort of multi pronged
approach that they use.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Uh, they'll basically, oh, gosh, okay.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So one of the main things that they'll do is
they will charge people for ancestor liberation.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Basically is that they'll say that.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Your ancestors are going to go to heaven if you
pay us this amount of money. And they'll have people
do that for like generations and generations back in order
to have their ancestors go to heaven.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
They do other.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Spiritual sales, like the book. There was this one book
from years ago that they charged people exorbitant fees on
just because it was like some sort of like providential
book of some sort. So spiritual sales are definitely like.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
A main focal point of this.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Another thing that will happen is that like they'll they'll
labor traffic people just straight up into like a lot
of the time they would do fundraising teams where they
would have people go out sell little trinkets and things
on the street or flowers and come back and then
give all that money to the cough of the church.
Another thing that they do is tithes. You're expected to
(04:05):
give a certain amount of your income basically to the church,
and if you don't, it's like they're not going to
be like they're there. It's like sort of you know,
like you need to do better because you're not you're
not doing enough for God kind of shit. So they
have like a myriad ways that they really push people
into spending money on them in their organizations, as well
(04:29):
as having a ton of very successful businesses and capital
ventures and whatnot. They they make guns, you name it,
and so it all sort of comes together to this
like very large wheelhouse of capital.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, and Japan's so so I think I should probably
I'm realizing I'm probably assuming that everyone who's listening to
this has listened to the previous stuff we've done on
the edification, and I don't know, I don't know how
true that is. So I guess we should talk a
little bit. We should back up a little bit and
talk about just what the Unification Church is, and I
(05:08):
guess also the importance of Japan to it, because Yeah,
for everything that I've understood, Japan's like, you know, like
they have a bunch of sort of businesses that they
run in Korea, but Japan's kind of like their chief
financial nexus. Like the last thing I saw, I think
it was like like they directed like one hundred million
dollars how Japan in the last few years.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, they get they get so much.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
That's their main it's their main financial powerhouse within the church.
And part of that is because the church claims that
because of the occupation of Korea that Japanese members have
to pay more indemnity monetarily, so everything with like you know,
all of the spiritual sales and stuff are just like
exorbitantly higher for those members, and that is just an
(05:55):
easy way for them to make a lot more money.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, which which is always a part of this thing.
I thought is really interesting because you know, the church,
and we've talked about this sort of at length in
other places, but they are like hardcore right wing anti communists. Yeah,
and like you know, have backed a lot of I
mean just desk squads all over the world they backed
(06:20):
they like they wound up backing pole Pot because like
doing a RAN contrac twice wasn't enough for them, but
a bunch Yeah. Yeah, it's like on once you once, once,
you once you've once you've done a RAN contract multiple times,
like you've got to there are very few places you
can go other than like into pole Pot. But I
think I think there's there's an interesting kind of game
(06:42):
they're playing here because you know, on the one hand,
so the party they're allied with in Japan, I mean
there's like several parties they work with, but their biggest
backer in the government is is the Liberal Democratic Party.
And you know, if you want to hear me talk
about the Liberal Democratic Party for a long long time,
go listen to my Kishi episodes on Behind the Bastards,
(07:03):
because that guy did one. So Masuki Kishi is the
founder of the Little Democratic Party. He is a just
horrific war criminal. I did like mass enslavement stuff like that,
Like truly truly awful guy. He's like he's also the
guy who just was in charge of like running the
(07:24):
Japanese war machine dream World War two, and his grandson
is is shinzo Abe. But there's just I think it's
this interesting dynamic where you have, on the one hand,
the Moonies are allying with these right wing guys who
are either just straight up like like a lot of
these people they're allying with are straight up like Nanjing denialists, right,
(07:45):
they're like, you know, they're they're there are people whose
lines on Japanese colonization or either that it was good
or we didn't do any crimes.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, So it comes off pretty pretty, you know, bold
faced and ironic and just very obvious that this is
a money ploy.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah yeah. But but I think it's interesting kind of
politically too, because you know, like if you if you
on the one hand pushed Anihilism, but then on the
other hand, you turn around and you're the only people
going like, hey, look at all these crimes your government did,
Like don't you owe like Korea so much? I feel
like it's like it's a really like terrible and like
it's just unbelievably cynical way of exploiting like exploiting just
(08:25):
the horror of Japanese imperialism to get.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's very underhanded, especially giving that I
feel like there is been some evidence that I mean
at least early church members and those around them may
have been collaborators at the time as well. So yeah,
it's very disingenuine and a completely twisted way to go
(08:50):
about anything. But people people buy into it and heavily.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So yeah, one of the ways they've they sort of
done this is allying with the Liberal Democratic Party. So
nobodys take Kishi, who again is AB's grandfather, like, is
the guy who brought the Unification Church into the party.
And this was kind of a controversial thing because okay
it was. It was kind of a controversial thing, not
because the Unification Church is a cult, but because the
(09:16):
Unification Church is Korean, which is like a dynamic that's
at play. He and this whole thing, which is you
have this weird okay. So there's like there's like two
kinds of people who are anti Unification Church in Japan.
It's you have like the leftists who are anti Unification
Church because they're a cult and because they're you know,
like a sort of cat's Paul of American imperialism, and
(09:37):
then you have like these ultra right wingers who are like,
these people are Koreans and so we hate them, which
is like a I don't know, truly terrifying Japan dynamic.
But Kishi's able to sort of overcome this and he okay,
So this is the part. I don't know if you
know more about this than I do. So every the
(09:58):
stuff that I've seen about this talks about the Unification
Church and the Yakuza kind of hammering out a deal
to allow the Unification Church to like do their specific
kinds of scams. And I've always assumed that Kishi brokeer
this because Noboshiki Kishi also is very very well connected
with the Yakuza. He's been connected with the yakuza since
(10:19):
like the twenties and thirties, so I always assumed that
he brokeer this deal. But I'm not entirely sure. I
don't know. I don't know if you've run into anything
about it.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
So I know that some of it has to do
with Asami Kuboki, I believe, but I wouldn't be surprised
if initial links do come through Kishi. I wouldn't I
would not be surprised about that. I don't know where exactly, like,
you know, initially that would make sense.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That would make sense.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Honestly because like going back to the sort of end
of the Korean War and World War two. Uh, basically
how all these you know, prisoners that were class A
war criminals got you know, they got to let off
the books because they decided to work for America now.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And and and basically.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
These guys were the first guys who started like funding
and financing and like supporting the church, uh, with like
the help of like MacArthur and stuff. And then MacArthur
of course is the one who got Moon out of prison.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So yeah, I mean there's a lot of sort of
there's a lot of very very the the the LDP
as a party is sort of directly like like directly
it is formed by the Dulles brothers intervewing with the
sort of Japanese right and telling them like, you guys
all have to like, you guys all have to put
aside your differences and form this party so as to
stop like even like a vaguely centered left government from
(11:51):
coming to power. Right. Yeah, and the connections you are
really deep, like kishi kishi literally sells Unification Church their
first building in Japan, and that building is like his residence.
So they are eaten deep and in it for the
long haul.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah and st.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, And this has been you know, sort of going
on for a very long time, even after like Chishi's
like specific kind of like fascist corruption faction kind of
eventually falls out of favor in like the eighties because
they they they kind a series of deals with the
Americans that are like too corrupt for the US that
(12:34):
ends with like ends with a fascist porn star I
like dry attempting to do a Kama Kazi run and
a Yaka is a boss by flying a plane into
his house, which is which is a whole thing. But
you know, so this kind of gets us to many
generations of LDP, which is the Liberal Democratic Party, which
(12:55):
has been the ruling party of Japan for most of
it's sort of modern history. Many generations did this go by,
and you know there's there's I think a really incredible
symbiosis here where like the LDP has like consistently gotten
them out of trouble of like stuff that like like
they're they're you know, there's a famous example where Moon
like shouldn't have been able to enter Japan because he
(13:17):
had been convicted of a felony in the US. And
you know the and there's also like there's been a
series of investigations into the church that has just gotten
squashed because the LDP ye know.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, they're too powerful.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
They're in, they're in with the guys who are running things.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And I think this just kind of brings us to
the immediate Abbe stuff, which I think is really interesting,
which is that like Abbe, okay, so long ago, in
a galaxy, far far away dream Kishi's generation, the CIA
was like literally running LDP elections like this is the
CIA would go in with individual candidates and they would
go in to sort of manipulate the vote. They would
(13:56):
go in and they would have like CIA assets doing
canvassing for them. And what I think is really interesting
is that like from what I've seen, it seems like
abb basically replaced the CIA with the moonies in the
two thousands, where he was having the church do exactly
the same thing the CIA did of like like hey,
if you ally with us, we will, like you know,
we will like go district by district and campaign for
(14:19):
you and like use our influence networks.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It's funny how that keeps happening.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yeah, hmm, Yeah, it's really the sort of long arc
of It's funny too because it's like like quite frankly
like at this point, like it from the CIA's point
of view, like it's utterly unclear to me if.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
It matters at all whether the LDP or like their
absolutely identical opposition party like comes into power. But there's
still just this kind of like like the ghost of
the CIA from like when they actually had to stop
the communists in like the cifty sixties and seventies, I
guess a bit through the eighties. It's just sort of
still there and still doing like all of this same
(15:00):
things that yeah, are y you know who else? Actually
I don't think they've ever advertised on this show, but
you know who probably wouldn't be that out of place
given the Reagan coin people. I don't know, it's it's ads,
(15:20):
it's we're doing them. I hope they don't suck and
we're back. Okay, So this is something I wanted to
ask you. How So, in the last few months, there's
been a lot of developments in terms of the reaction
(15:45):
to the Church in Japan and how the church has
been reacting to the sort of swings in public sentiment
that have been happening. So yeah, I guess I want
to ask how what's been happening inside the Japanese government
sense all of the stufface sort of been coming out.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
So it seems to be that there has been quite
a kerfuffle because quite a few members of both the
LDP and other parties have ties.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
To the Unification Church.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
So I've got some stats here, and forgive me if
these are not the most current. I tried my best
to find the most current, the most current numbers out
here about this, but I was having a little bit
of trouble due to translations.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
So let's see.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I've got at least three hundred and thirty four Prefectural
Assembly members in Japan have had dealings with the Unification
Church or it's affiliates, with over eighty percent of them
belonging to the ruling LDP, according to Kyoto News, So
Prime Minister of Fumiyo Kushita said that the government was
in the final stage of considering whether to seek a
(16:53):
court order to disband the Unification Church. But also, you know,
his new cabinet well, they've got some ties, okay, at
least four lawmakers who admitted having ties to the church.
The number of LVP lawmakers was ties to the churches
around one hundred and eighty, and the second Tenary General
(17:14):
has said that one hundred and seventy nine of the
three hundred and seventy nine parliamentarians reported with links to
the church and related organizations. And these relationships have ranged
from attending church events to accepting donations and receiving elections support.
And then at least three hundred and thirty four prefectural
councils had contact.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
With the UC in related orgs.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
So there's a lot going on that basically is, there's
a lot that has come out about who is involved. However,
the UC is still pretty much just denying everything. The
pre trial proceedings for Yamagami began on October thirteenth. It's
going to be closed door, so it'll probably be a
while a little bit until the information trickles out about that.
(17:58):
Hopefully they'll have some like I don't don't know if
like what closed door means in that specific situation, I
still have journalists in there, not hopefully, Yeah, but yeah,
a lot has been coming out and people have been
calling for a lot of change, it seems, but how
much is actually going to happen, especially when they're saying
(18:19):
now it's going to be like maybe one to three
years for the deliberation on the case for dissolving the church,
which means that the church will have ample time to
move all of its funds and set up new new
lines of money funneling.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Basically, yeah, which I think. Yeah, I don't know, like
I have I have very little faith that even even
this sort of like outswing of public pressure is going
to like actually seriously cause a liberal Democratic party to
like really go after the church because, like I mean,
like Abe, like part of the reason Abi got assassinated
(18:55):
was that, like I think, like in twenty twenty two,
he he get he like he was like he like
said a video of of like of a speech like
to a like to a manuline unification church event. I
think it was the same one that it might have
been the same one that Trump said it too. Maybe
it was it was a different event, but like yeah,
like that, I don't know, I have a difficult time,
(19:18):
I don't know kind of like believing that they're that
like this like, even if this crackdown does come, that's
going to be effective. I don't know what your thoughts
on that.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I'm excited that there is some movement in that direction. However,
I do worry that it won't really make as much
of a dent into the functioning of the movement as
some people think it could, given that there seems to
be a lot of time for them to recuperate funds
and they've been doing a lot of things that seems
(19:50):
to make up for funds, as well as the fact
that they already just have so much money and so
many funds in the first place. It's hard to say
how much they even have and how much this would
make a dent into it were it to happen, So it's.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Hard to say.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And I also do worry that that'll just sort of
incentivize them to sort of further radicalize people in a
very dangerous far right direction and sort of going into that,
there have been some sort of recent developments within the
church since all of this has come out, basically, and
people are calling for some sort of justice and some
(20:30):
sort of you know, understanding of what's going on, which
you know, the church continues to deny but recently Hawk Jahan,
who is now the leader of the Mainline Church, has
been meeting with the youth in multiple countries, and recently
at Japan, she sat down and told them that they
are a Kamakazi group basically to save Japan in the world.
(20:54):
So I can't imagine it's ever really like, it never
has ended well when somebody says that to an occult
leader says that to their constituents, it never goes well.
And you know, acts of violence against oneself like self
emolation or other things murder have not been you know,
(21:15):
out of the realm of things that people in the
Unification of Church have done in the past.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So it does kind of worry me. And she's actually
hat Jahan is actually going to be.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Meeting I believe it's the weekend of the Seventh uh
in Vegas with the Youth of America. So I wonder
if she's going to be saying similar things at that event.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, I mean, that wouldn't surprise me, it would.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Seem I have a feeling it seems to be since
she's been going around and meeting, because she's also met
with the youth of Europe in the Middle East, that
there's like a concerted effort here to sort of get
youth engagement up, which leads me into a couple of
other things here. I know that for a couple of
years now, the Global Peace Foundation, which is under presst
(22:05):
and Moon, has been involved with like different like music
festivals and things with K pop artists and stuff. But
recently there was actually an event this year is supposed
to happen called twenty twenty three Korean Dream Festa for
Korean United and then the original poster it was said
that it was Global Peace Foundation that was one of
(22:27):
the groups that was leading this. A lot of fans
have soaken up, and I know at least one of
the groups.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Has pulled out, so clearly at.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Least within that within that prong of the UC that
there's there's there's some very active like trying to outreach
to the youth, which I think I think I would
be able to say is pretty across the board at
this point. I think they're all trying some new strategies
because they see that people are leaving, and especially with
the number of people that have been speaking up lately,
(22:55):
they really want to keep those numbers and engage new
people as well. Part of this also makes me think
that might be why Sean Moon is doing the sort
of like maga rapper thing. I don't know, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Because he could he could just be weird, Like it's possible,
but yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
It does strike me as something that's like, hmm, maybe
this is a way to get kids into the movement,
you know, Like I don't really know. Part of me
is also wondered why if if that is part of
why Caleb Moppin has showed up at Mooney things now,
like yeah, just yeah, uh that guy, not that guy,
(23:35):
but like yeah, it just makes me wonder about like
different onboarding ramps that might be being tapped because uh,
there's potentially, you know, like a little bit of a
lull here and there's.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Going to be a financial dip in this specific chain.
I don't really know. I can't claim to I have suspicions.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, I mean I think it makes I think as
a theory, it makes sense, Like I mean, the UCAS
Church is the Unification Church has always tried to sort
of stick itself into like different cultural trends, and I think, right,
like my voter said, like I don't, I don't think
the last time they really tried. The you strategy worked
very well, like in the late twenty early twenty tens.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Right, Yeah, no, it didn't. It didn't work particularly well.
I wonder, however, you know, times are changing. If they
happen to get one or two good strategists on board,
that could change everything, honestly, But I also don't necessarily
know that this is going to go well for them,
seeing is that they're deeply uncool. That's a real big issue,
(24:38):
Like that's the main issue for like trying to get
youth engagement up. I feel like, you know, I don't know, Uh,
there's only so cool you can make it sound, which
is nothing like no.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, And I mean it is interesting that they're kind
of like the mop in things specifically is really interesting
because it's it's it seems like, I don't know, it
seems like they're trying to tap into this like just
like whatever weird currents of like new right like stuff
they can get their hands on.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, it seems like that honestly to me too. And
it's also specifically ironic considering that Caleb used to hit
me up for information on the Moonies a lot before
I figured that he was a creep.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Before I figured out he was a creep and like
not somebody I wanted to be talking to. So he
knows all this ship about them and continues and like
willfully yeah, is engaging with them, which to me is
just like mmmm yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
It's like if you if you're if you're gonna sell out,
like at least at least sell out into a podcast,
don't sell out to a fucking cult like Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Come on, it's just ridiculous stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I don't know, Yeah, it's really terrible.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I don't know, like, yeah, it's the mashup we didn't need.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And this I think this has been eased to something
else I wanted to ask about, so other than the
sort of like you strategy stuff, has there been a
reaction from like the Rod of Iron ministry or like
the other sort of like splinter fractions of the church
to the stuff that's been happening in Japan? Like have
and also I ask you everything like as Bess, like,
(26:15):
everything that I've seen seems suggest that the if they
were gonna like if they were going to just band
the church, it would only be the main branch. Has
there been like has the statement going after the other
branches too, or.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
So in that respect, I am actually still kind of
unclear and have some research questions I need to resolve
on that matter. As far as I've been aware, the
other branches have been reasonably.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Quiet about it.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
It doesn't mean that they're not internally doing things. I
know that they both have large populations in Japan as
well of membership, so it would make sense that they
would be trying to figure something out.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
However, I don't actually know.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
If legally they are going to be gone after the
same way as the mainline church, and that's something I
just need to clear up myself. But honestly, they haven't
been speaking as much about it as I thought they might.
That doesn't mean that they're not. It also just might
mean that they're not publishing it, you know. But part
(27:15):
of me also wants to know if the reason that
you know, hak Tahan is coming to America that certain
weekend is because that's exact same weekend that the Rod
of Iron Freedom Festival is happening, and she just doesn't
want to get beheaded by her sons who wants to
behead her. So yeah, because it's like, oh, she knows
they're they're doing that weekend. I mean, I don't know,
like that's it's just maybe silly speculation.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
But at the same time, they have literally said that
they want to behead her.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
So yeah, I wouldn't be from them if I were her. Yeah,
So that that that that that entire fight is really
a like like no matter it's either a like the
eat pop or let them fight or the no matter
who wins, we lose kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Right, It's just quite a mess.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Like I can say that I have a lot of
family drama, but nothing compared to this.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Just wild.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
So there was a show that was originally going to
be called The Devil's Whispers that was to be aired
in Japan, but of course the UC complained a little
bit and they said that the program included a dramatization.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
They said that basically, they.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Claimed that this dramatized program which was showing past tense
of the group to recruit believers, including hiding the group's
name in door to door sales taxics designs disguised as charitable.
First of all, in HK, the channel that was going
to air it, first of all, change the name to
Dangerous Whispers instead of the Devil's Whispers, but the church
(29:00):
also tried to tried to make them cancel like the
show from happening and airing. As far as I'm aware,
I think it actually did air a couple of nights
ago though.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Glad, gleg gleg Glad they got it through. But like
the fact that, yeah, the name changes, like really.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Yeah, I'm like, still, it's pretty ridiculous, Like maybe they
changed it, but I think what they had said it
was like sometimes in post production will change the name
for whatever reason or something like that. But it's like,
are you sure it's not, because the church complained.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
So I don't really know.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Well, and I guess I guess. I guess no. One
more thing I wanted to talk a bit about, which
is that, And this is something we've been seeing already,
is people talking about like, oh, you shouldn't just spand
the church on religious freedom grounds. And that's something that
the U see has been really really successful at sort
of hiding behind you when anyone tries to go after them,
like they did this in the seventies and eighties, when
(29:58):
there were campaigns to like prosecute them for just the
crimes they were doing. Was that a bunch of sort
of like like not just not just right wing groups,
but sort of like like like civil libertarian groups, Like
like we're like, oh, you can't do this because if you,
if if they go after the Uthi Gacia Church, they're
going to be able to go after like any religious groups.
And that's just like not true, Like it's just not true.
(30:19):
These people are not like what what whatever you're you know,
in terms of sort of whatever, like the crimes of
like a normal religious group group are like the church
is not a normal religious group. They have been funding
desk squads for like longer than most of the people
listening to the show have been alive. And yeah, I
(30:40):
don't know, I I I just want to sort of
like like just make people aware of it. They're going
to try this shit again. And it was it was
bullshit less and they did it. It's bullshit now.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yeah, And that's that's the thing that keeps annoying me.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Well, it's not the same.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
There are many things about this that annoy me and
make me very enraged, but one of them is that
the playbook doesn't change.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
No, it's very very straightforward. This is how it's going
to work.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I'm kind of wondering also if the cult is going
to sort of like roll out new providential edicts that
will like potentially be like, oh no, this is going
to be our new country that we get the most
money out of, or this maybe or something like, you know,
just something that they're going to say that God has
made it this way so that like, yeah, you can
change those money money funneling tunnels.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, I don't know. The only prediction that I can
make and I'm absolutely sure of is that it's going
to be wild and it's going to suck.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Yeah, I'm not looking forward to how this is going
to play out, honestly, especially given all of the like
Kamakazi squad comments and stuff. Makes me ill, It makes
it makes me scared, It makes me not feel confident
about the way that this is going to turn out.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, I'm kind of of two minds of this because
like I'm hoping this will go well and this will
actually work, and that like even if the church tries
to lash out, it's like doesn't work very well. I
do think also the way that this assassination has like
been turning just random pe like regular people in Japan
(32:20):
who don't really know anything about the church against them
has been really really interesting and powerful in a way
that was I mean not the I don't know, so
there's I've been saying is like the top of the
show kind of as a joke, but like this really
has been a very successful like political assassination in that
(32:40):
it hasn't like, it hasn't back it hasn't yet backfired
in a way that helps the church, and it seems
to have really I don't know, it seems it seems
to have very powerfully achieved this objective of getting people
to go, wait, hold on, who is this cult that
is like not I don't know, running is maybe too
(33:01):
strong of a word, but has like completely embedded itself
in the in Japan's ruling class.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Right yeah, yeah, people are asking questions now.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, which which I think is good. And I don't know,
I hope the other thing I'm hoping is that this
like people start doing this in like the US and
in Korea and in like all of the other places
that they've been doing shit like this, because this.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Is yeah, because that's been global and there have been
so many people that have been victims of this group
that I know a lot of us in America have
also started speaking out about it, and the media here
has not been quite as interested in picking up.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
What we have to say. To a degree, they have been.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
But it's usually you know, sensationalized and made a little
weird and.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Just yeah the main point. Oh sorry, yeah, go on
like that.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
There's a there's a really this is something like I've
read a lot of sort of American coverage of this
alongside the Japanese coverage, and I mean, like I expect
this of the Japanese. Wow, Okay, I guess I expect
this of both, like parts of the coverage, but there
is there has been very very little, if any willingness
to like talk about the church's connection to the CIA,
(34:22):
and there you know, people will talk about them like
as an anti communist group, but.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Right like yeah like that extra step.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, yeah, like you have like it's they're not just
in it, like there there are there are lots of
anti communist groups. I mean there are no anti communist
groups that are good, right, but like there are lots
of anti communist groups that never funded death squads in
like not what was what was the actual number? Like
sixteen I had, I had I had a count at
one point of the number of countries they funded death
(34:50):
squads in. But like like most most most most people
haven't like like funded coups in Bolivia and like you know,
kept like allowed a ran contra to happen by keeping
the contrasts in the war or like scent weapons of
the Mousia haden like yo, like they they really they
really they've I don't know, like and I I mean,
(35:13):
I like, I guess, like you know, in terms of
the sort of like this is the bourgeois press stuff
like it, like it makes sense ideologically why people don't
want to talk about their connections to the CIA and
like the operations they pulled in the US and all
of the just imperialism they've been doing. But it's it's
really depressing because yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
It feels demoralizing sometimes because people only want to tell
part of the story when it's like not too crazy
and out there sounding for them. It's like, no, I
tell you what, the actual story behind this group is
crazier and more out there than you could ever imagine.
Speaker 6 (35:49):
Like yeah, yeah, and I think I think that's that's
been an important I mean, that's why I think why
the work you're doing is really important because thank you,
like you have to actually make like you're one of
the few people like actually making these connections.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And yeah, I really I really appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I appreciate that you appreciate it, because it's sometimes it's
weird work.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
To do, Like I just read a lot about horrible things, and.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
You know, I mean, like I was saying, that can
take a toll on you to a degree, and sometimes
I'll have to take breaks from it, but at the
end of the day, I'm always going to go back
to it because, like I think it's worth doing, because
the stuff needs to be talked about.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, so, I guess do you have anything else that
you wanted to say.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Before I'll just plug deprogramming, imperialism, those two words. I
think there's an underscore on our Instagram. Let me just
double check.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
If there's an underscore, we will put links to this
in the description.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show.
And yeah, fuck these.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
People, Yeah for real, they've done some really bad stuff.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So hopefully hopefully this is finally after like so many
generations of terrible crimes they've been doing that this is
finally the one that's going to fucking crush them.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
We can hope, you know, Yeah, you can very much
hope though, And the more people are talking about it
the better. The more people understand, like the history behind
the movement, the better. So thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, and yeah, this has been It can happen here.
You can find us assuming Twitter still exists when this
goes up on Twitter, Instagram, haf in here pod. Yeah,
you can find sources of cool Zone Media. Yeah, go
go into the world, destroy imperialism and crush the remains
(37:40):
of these dog shit assholes.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yes, it could happen here as a production of cool
Zone Media.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
For more podcasts from.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zonemedia dot com
or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated
monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
All media. It's it could happen here. The thing that's
happening is that Shinzo Wahabe is still dead one year on.
That man has not gone back from the dead. He
is still absolutely the most assassinated man of twenty twenty three,
(00:21):
twenty twenty two. That well, you know, honestly, given how
assassinated he is, we're giving him the credit for being
the most assassinated man of twenty twenty three. And what's
interesting about this assassination, and we talked about I talked
about this really briefly in my sort of intro thing
to the last episode that we ran about the Abbe assassination.
But this has been maybe the most successful political assassination
(00:45):
not done by the CIA in the last like seventy years,
like absolutely stunningly incredibly successful political assassination because specifically of
the political impact that the assassination has had on the
Unification Church probably better known as the Moonies, and how
it's been forcing the sort of Unification Church aligned ruling
(01:06):
Liberal Democratic Party of Japan to like have a serious
of embarrassing scandals where they revealed their like incredible intertwinement
with the church apparatus and all of the culture they've
been doing. And with me to talk about this is
Alisa Majub, who's an ex Unification Church member who got
out and who works with Deeprogramming Imperialism, which is a
(01:28):
group that tells the sort of still untold story of
how the Unification Church has worked with the CIA and
the Korean CIA and enormous parts of the sort of
the apparatus of the American imperial war machine to cause
untold suffering on the world. Lisa, Welcome, Welcome to the show. Welcome,
welcome back.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you appreciate it. I'm glad to be back.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, so I'm excited to talk with you about this
because we didn't really There's been a lot of very
very interesting stuff happening in the last couple of months
in Japan. But in order to do that, I think
we need to we need to sort of talk about
what this assassination was actually about. So the shooter, Tetsuya Yamagami,
(02:12):
killed Abe because he couldn't get to a He was
trying to kill a high ranking Unification Church guy and
he like couldn't get to him. And the reason he
was trying to do this is that his mom had
given I think like seventy thousand yen to the church.
I'm getting the number right, and had basically like, you know,
(02:33):
like this is I I yeah, I wanted to talk
to you a bit about this before we go into
more of the abbe stuff about how the church's financial
abuse works and how you know, like how how how
how how this person's mom was compelled to sort of
like literally give away all of their money to this cult.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Right, Well, I would say it's sort of multi pronged
approach that they use.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Uh, they'll basically, oh, gosh, okay.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So one of the main things that they'll do is
they will charge people for ancestor liberation.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Basically is that they'll say that.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Your ancestors are going to go to heaven if you
pay us this amount of money. And they'll have people
do that for like generations and generations back in order
to have their ancestors go to heaven.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
They do other.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Spiritual sales, like the book. There was this one book
from years ago that they charged people exorbitant fees on
just because it was like some sort of like providential
book of some sort. So spiritual sales are definitely like.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
A main focal point of this.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Another thing that will happen is that like they'll they'll
labor traffic people just straight up into like a lot
of the time they would do fundraising teams where they
would have people go out sell little trinkets and things
on the street or flowers and come back and then
give all that money to the cough of the church.
Another thing that they do is tithes. You're expected to
(04:05):
give a certain amount of your income basically to the church,
and if you don't, it's like they're not going to
be like they're there. It's like sort of you know,
like you need to do better because you're not you're
not doing enough for God kind of shit. So they
have like a myriad ways that they really push people
into spending money on them in their organizations, as well
(04:29):
as having a ton of very successful businesses and capital
ventures and whatnot. They they make guns, you name it,
and so it all sort of comes together to this
like very large wheelhouse of capital.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, and Japan's so so I think I should probably
I'm realizing I'm probably assuming that everyone who's listening to
this has listened to the previous stuff we've done on
the edification, and I don't know, I don't know how
true that is. So I guess we should talk a
little bit. We should back up a little bit and
talk about just what the Unification Church is, and I
(05:08):
guess also the importance of Japan to it, because Yeah,
for everything that I've understood, Japan's like, you know, like
they have a bunch of sort of businesses that they
run in Korea, but Japan's kind of like their chief
financial nexus. Like the last thing I saw, I think
it was like like they directed like one hundred million
dollars how Japan in the last few years.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, they get they get so much.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
That's their main it's their main financial powerhouse within the church.
And part of that is because the church claims that
because of the occupation of Korea that Japanese members have
to pay more indemnity monetarily, so everything with like you know,
all of the spiritual sales and stuff are just like
exorbitantly higher for those members, and that is just an
(05:55):
easy way for them to make a lot more money.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, which which is always a part of this thing.
I thought is really interesting because you know, the church,
and we've talked about this sort of at length in
other places, but they are like hardcore right wing anti communists. Yeah,
and like you know, have backed a lot of I
mean just desk squads all over the world they backed
(06:20):
they like they wound up backing pole Pot because like
doing a RAN contrac twice wasn't enough for them, but
a bunch Yeah. Yeah, it's like on once you once, once,
you once you've once you've done a RAN contract multiple times,
like you've got to there are very few places you
can go other than like into pole Pot. But I
think I think there's there's an interesting kind of game
(06:42):
they're playing here because you know, on the one hand,
so the party they're allied with in Japan, I mean
there's like several parties they work with, but their biggest
backer in the government is is the Liberal Democratic Party.
And you know, if you want to hear me talk
about the Liberal Democratic Party for a long long time,
go listen to my Kishi episodes on Behind the Bastards,
(07:03):
because that guy did one. So Masuki Kishi is the
founder of the Little Democratic Party. He is a just
horrific war criminal. I did like mass enslavement stuff like that,
Like truly truly awful guy. He's like he's also the
guy who just was in charge of like running the
(07:24):
Japanese war machine dream World War two, and his grandson
is is shinzo Abe. But there's just I think it's
this interesting dynamic where you have, on the one hand,
the Moonies are allying with these right wing guys who
are either just straight up like like a lot of
these people they're allying with are straight up like Nanjing denialists, right,
(07:45):
they're like, you know, they're they're there are people whose
lines on Japanese colonization or either that it was good
or we didn't do any crimes.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, So it comes off pretty pretty, you know, bold
faced and ironic and just very obvious that this is
a money ploy.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah yeah. But but I think it's interesting kind of
politically too, because you know, like if you if you
on the one hand pushed Anihilism, but then on the
other hand, you turn around and you're the only people
going like, hey, look at all these crimes your government did,
Like don't you owe like Korea so much? I feel
like it's like it's a really like terrible and like
it's just unbelievably cynical way of exploiting like exploiting just
(08:25):
the horror of Japanese imperialism to get.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's very underhanded, especially giving that I
feel like there is been some evidence that I mean
at least early church members and those around them may
have been collaborators at the time as well. So yeah,
it's very disingenuine and a completely twisted way to go
(08:50):
about anything. But people people buy into it and heavily.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So yeah, one of the ways they've they sort of
done this is allying with the Liberal Democratic Party. So
nobodys take Kishi, who again is AB's grandfather, like, is
the guy who brought the Unification Church into the party.
And this was kind of a controversial thing because okay
it was. It was kind of a controversial thing, not
because the Unification Church is a cult, but because the
(09:16):
Unification Church is Korean, which is like a dynamic that's
at play. He and this whole thing, which is you
have this weird okay. So there's like there's like two
kinds of people who are anti Unification Church in Japan.
It's you have like the leftists who are anti Unification
Church because they're a cult and because they're you know,
like a sort of cat's Paul of American imperialism, and
(09:37):
then you have like these ultra right wingers who are like,
these people are Koreans and so we hate them, which
is like a I don't know, truly terrifying Japan dynamic.
But Kishi's able to sort of overcome this and he okay,
So this is the part. I don't know if you
know more about this than I do. So every the
(09:58):
stuff that I've seen about this talks about the Unification
Church and the Yakuza kind of hammering out a deal
to allow the Unification Church to like do their specific
kinds of scams. And I've always assumed that Kishi brokeer
this because Noboshiki Kishi also is very very well connected
with the Yakuza. He's been connected with the yakuza since
(10:19):
like the twenties and thirties, so I always assumed that
he brokeer this deal. But I'm not entirely sure. I
don't know. I don't know if you've run into anything
about it.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
So I know that some of it has to do
with Asami Kuboki, I believe, but I wouldn't be surprised
if initial links do come through Kishi. I wouldn't I
would not be surprised about that. I don't know where exactly, like,
you know, initially that would make sense.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That would make sense.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Honestly because like going back to the sort of end
of the Korean War and World War two. Uh, basically
how all these you know, prisoners that were class A
war criminals got you know, they got to let off
the books because they decided to work for America now.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And and and basically.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
These guys were the first guys who started like funding
and financing and like supporting the church, uh, with like
the help of like MacArthur and stuff. And then MacArthur
of course is the one who got Moon out of prison.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So yeah, I mean there's a lot of sort of
there's a lot of very very the the the LDP
as a party is sort of directly like like directly
it is formed by the Dulles brothers intervewing with the
sort of Japanese right and telling them like, you guys
all have to like, you guys all have to put
aside your differences and form this party so as to
stop like even like a vaguely centered left government from
(11:51):
coming to power. Right. Yeah, and the connections you are
really deep, like kishi kishi literally sells Unification Church their
first building in Japan, and that building is like his residence.
So they are eaten deep and in it for the
long haul.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah and st.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, And this has been you know, sort of going
on for a very long time, even after like Chishi's
like specific kind of like fascist corruption faction kind of
eventually falls out of favor in like the eighties because
they they they kind a series of deals with the
Americans that are like too corrupt for the US that
(12:34):
ends with like ends with a fascist porn star I
like dry attempting to do a Kama Kazi run and
a Yaka is a boss by flying a plane into
his house, which is which is a whole thing. But
you know, so this kind of gets us to many
generations of LDP, which is the Liberal Democratic Party, which
(12:55):
has been the ruling party of Japan for most of
it's sort of modern history. Many generations did this go by,
and you know there's there's I think a really incredible
symbiosis here where like the LDP has like consistently gotten
them out of trouble of like stuff that like like
they're they're you know, there's a famous example where Moon
like shouldn't have been able to enter Japan because he
(13:17):
had been convicted of a felony in the US. And
you know the and there's also like there's been a
series of investigations into the church that has just gotten
squashed because the LDP ye know.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, they're too powerful.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
They're in, they're in with the guys who are running things.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And I think this just kind of brings us to
the immediate Abbe stuff, which I think is really interesting,
which is that like Abbe, okay, so long ago, in
a galaxy, far far away dream Kishi's generation, the CIA
was like literally running LDP elections like this is the
CIA would go in with individual candidates and they would
go in to sort of manipulate the vote. They would
(13:56):
go in and they would have like CIA assets doing
canvassing for them. And what I think is really interesting
is that like from what I've seen, it seems like
abb basically replaced the CIA with the moonies in the
two thousands, where he was having the church do exactly
the same thing the CIA did of like like hey,
if you ally with us, we will, like you know,
we will like go district by district and campaign for
(14:19):
you and like use our influence networks.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It's funny how that keeps happening.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yeah, hmm, Yeah, it's really the sort of long arc
of It's funny too because it's like like quite frankly
like at this point, like it from the CIA's point
of view, like it's utterly unclear to me if.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
It matters at all whether the LDP or like their
absolutely identical opposition party like comes into power. But there's
still just this kind of like like the ghost of
the CIA from like when they actually had to stop
the communists in like the cifty sixties and seventies, I
guess a bit through the eighties. It's just sort of
still there and still doing like all of this same
(15:00):
things that yeah, are y you know who else? Actually
I don't think they've ever advertised on this show, but
you know who probably wouldn't be that out of place
given the Reagan coin people. I don't know, it's it's ads,
(15:20):
it's we're doing them. I hope they don't suck and
we're back. Okay, So this is something I wanted to
ask you. How So, in the last few months, there's
been a lot of developments in terms of the reaction
(15:45):
to the Church in Japan and how the church has
been reacting to the sort of swings in public sentiment
that have been happening. So yeah, I guess I want
to ask how what's been happening inside the Japanese government
sense all of the stufface sort of been coming out.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
So it seems to be that there has been quite
a kerfuffle because quite a few members of both the
LDP and other parties have ties.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
To the Unification Church.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
So I've got some stats here, and forgive me if
these are not the most current. I tried my best
to find the most current, the most current numbers out
here about this, but I was having a little bit
of trouble due to translations.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
So let's see.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I've got at least three hundred and thirty four Prefectural
Assembly members in Japan have had dealings with the Unification
Church or it's affiliates, with over eighty percent of them
belonging to the ruling LDP, according to Kyoto News, So
Prime Minister of Fumiyo Kushita said that the government was
in the final stage of considering whether to seek a
(16:53):
court order to disband the Unification Church. But also, you know,
his new cabinet well, they've got some ties, okay, at
least four lawmakers who admitted having ties to the church.
The number of LVP lawmakers was ties to the churches
around one hundred and eighty, and the second Tenary General
(17:14):
has said that one hundred and seventy nine of the
three hundred and seventy nine parliamentarians reported with links to
the church and related organizations. And these relationships have ranged
from attending church events to accepting donations and receiving elections support.
And then at least three hundred and thirty four prefectural
councils had contact.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
With the UC in related orgs.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
So there's a lot going on that basically is, there's
a lot that has come out about who is involved. However,
the UC is still pretty much just denying everything. The
pre trial proceedings for Yamagami began on October thirteenth. It's
going to be closed door, so it'll probably be a
while a little bit until the information trickles out about that.
(17:58):
Hopefully they'll have some like I don't don't know if
like what closed door means in that specific situation, I
still have journalists in there, not hopefully, Yeah, but yeah,
a lot has been coming out and people have been
calling for a lot of change, it seems, but how
much is actually going to happen, especially when they're saying
(18:19):
now it's going to be like maybe one to three
years for the deliberation on the case for dissolving the church,
which means that the church will have ample time to
move all of its funds and set up new new
lines of money funneling.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Basically, yeah, which I think. Yeah, I don't know, like
I have I have very little faith that even even
this sort of like outswing of public pressure is going
to like actually seriously cause a liberal Democratic party to
like really go after the church because, like I mean,
like Abe, like part of the reason Abi got assassinated
(18:55):
was that, like I think, like in twenty twenty two,
he he get he like he was like he like
said a video of of like of a speech like
to a like to a manuline unification church event. I
think it was the same one that it might have
been the same one that Trump said it too. Maybe
it was it was a different event, but like yeah,
like that, I don't know, I have a difficult time,
(19:18):
I don't know kind of like believing that they're that
like this like, even if this crackdown does come, that's
going to be effective. I don't know what your thoughts
on that.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I'm excited that there is some movement in that direction. However,
I do worry that it won't really make as much
of a dent into the functioning of the movement as
some people think it could, given that there seems to
be a lot of time for them to recuperate funds
and they've been doing a lot of things that seems
(19:50):
to make up for funds, as well as the fact
that they already just have so much money and so
many funds in the first place. It's hard to say
how much they even have and how much this would
make a dent into it were it to happen, So it's.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Hard to say.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And I also do worry that that'll just sort of
incentivize them to sort of further radicalize people in a
very dangerous far right direction and sort of going into that,
there have been some sort of recent developments within the
church since all of this has come out, basically, and
people are calling for some sort of justice and some
(20:30):
sort of you know, understanding of what's going on, which
you know, the church continues to deny but recently Hawk Jahan,
who is now the leader of the Mainline Church, has
been meeting with the youth in multiple countries, and recently
at Japan, she sat down and told them that they
are a Kamakazi group basically to save Japan in the world.
(20:54):
So I can't imagine it's ever really like, it never
has ended well when somebody says that to an occult
leader says that to their constituents, it never goes well.
And you know, acts of violence against oneself like self
emolation or other things murder have not been you know,
(21:15):
out of the realm of things that people in the
Unification of Church have done in the past.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So it does kind of worry me. And she's actually
hat Jahan is actually going to be.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Meeting I believe it's the weekend of the Seventh uh
in Vegas with the Youth of America. So I wonder
if she's going to be saying similar things at that event.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, I mean, that wouldn't surprise me, it would.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Seem I have a feeling it seems to be since
she's been going around and meeting, because she's also met
with the youth of Europe in the Middle East, that
there's like a concerted effort here to sort of get
youth engagement up, which leads me into a couple of
other things here. I know that for a couple of
years now, the Global Peace Foundation, which is under presst
(22:05):
and Moon, has been involved with like different like music
festivals and things with K pop artists and stuff. But
recently there was actually an event this year is supposed
to happen called twenty twenty three Korean Dream Festa for
Korean United and then the original poster it was said
that it was Global Peace Foundation that was one of
(22:27):
the groups that was leading this. A lot of fans
have soaken up, and I know at least one of
the groups.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Has pulled out, so clearly at.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Least within that within that prong of the UC that
there's there's there's some very active like trying to outreach
to the youth, which I think I think I would
be able to say is pretty across the board at
this point. I think they're all trying some new strategies
because they see that people are leaving, and especially with
the number of people that have been speaking up lately,
(22:55):
they really want to keep those numbers and engage new
people as well. Part of this also makes me think
that might be why Sean Moon is doing the sort
of like maga rapper thing. I don't know, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Because he could he could just be weird, Like it's possible,
but yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
It does strike me as something that's like, hmm, maybe
this is a way to get kids into the movement,
you know, Like I don't really know. Part of me
is also wondered why if if that is part of
why Caleb Moppin has showed up at Mooney things now,
like yeah, just yeah, uh that guy, not that guy,
(23:35):
but like yeah, it just makes me wonder about like
different onboarding ramps that might be being tapped because uh,
there's potentially, you know, like a little bit of a
lull here and there's.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Going to be a financial dip in this specific chain.
I don't really know. I can't claim to I have suspicions.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, I mean I think it makes I think as
a theory, it makes sense, Like I mean, the UCAS
Church is the Unification Church has always tried to sort
of stick itself into like different cultural trends, and I think, right,
like my voter said, like I don't, I don't think
the last time they really tried. The you strategy worked
very well, like in the late twenty early twenty tens.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Right, Yeah, no, it didn't. It didn't work particularly well.
I wonder, however, you know, times are changing. If they
happen to get one or two good strategists on board,
that could change everything, honestly, But I also don't necessarily
know that this is going to go well for them,
seeing is that they're deeply uncool. That's a real big issue,
(24:38):
Like that's the main issue for like trying to get
youth engagement up. I feel like, you know, I don't know, Uh,
there's only so cool you can make it sound, which
is nothing like no.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, And I mean it is interesting that they're kind
of like the mop in things specifically is really interesting
because it's it's it seems like, I don't know, it
seems like they're trying to tap into this like just
like whatever weird currents of like new right like stuff
they can get their hands on.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, it seems like that honestly to me too. And
it's also specifically ironic considering that Caleb used to hit
me up for information on the Moonies a lot before
I figured that he was a creep.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Before I figured out he was a creep and like
not somebody I wanted to be talking to. So he
knows all this ship about them and continues and like
willfully yeah, is engaging with them, which to me is
just like mmmm yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
It's like if you if you're if you're gonna sell out,
like at least at least sell out into a podcast,
don't sell out to a fucking cult like Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Come on, it's just ridiculous stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I don't know, Yeah, it's really terrible.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I don't know, like, yeah, it's the mashup we didn't need.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And this I think this has been eased to something
else I wanted to ask about, so other than the
sort of like you strategy stuff, has there been a
reaction from like the Rod of Iron ministry or like
the other sort of like splinter fractions of the church
to the stuff that's been happening in Japan? Like have
and also I ask you everything like as Bess, like,
(26:15):
everything that I've seen seems suggest that the if they
were gonna like if they were going to just band
the church, it would only be the main branch. Has
there been like has the statement going after the other
branches too, or.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
So in that respect, I am actually still kind of
unclear and have some research questions I need to resolve
on that matter. As far as I've been aware, the
other branches have been reasonably.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Quiet about it.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
It doesn't mean that they're not internally doing things. I
know that they both have large populations in Japan as
well of membership, so it would make sense that they
would be trying to figure something out.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
However, I don't actually know.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
If legally they are going to be gone after the
same way as the mainline church, and that's something I
just need to clear up myself. But honestly, they haven't
been speaking as much about it as I thought they might.
That doesn't mean that they're not. It also just might
mean that they're not publishing it, you know. But part
(27:15):
of me also wants to know if the reason that
you know, hak Tahan is coming to America that certain
weekend is because that's exact same weekend that the Rod
of Iron Freedom Festival is happening, and she just doesn't
want to get beheaded by her sons who wants to
behead her. So yeah, because it's like, oh, she knows
they're they're doing that weekend. I mean, I don't know,
like that's it's just maybe silly speculation.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
But at the same time, they have literally said that
they want to behead her.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
So yeah, I wouldn't be from them if I were her. Yeah,
So that that that that that entire fight is really
a like like no matter it's either a like the
eat pop or let them fight or the no matter
who wins, we lose kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Right, It's just quite a mess.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Like I can say that I have a lot of
family drama, but nothing compared to this.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Just wild.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
So there was a show that was originally going to
be called The Devil's Whispers that was to be aired
in Japan, but of course the UC complained a little
bit and they said that the program included a dramatization.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
They said that basically, they.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Claimed that this dramatized program which was showing past tense
of the group to recruit believers, including hiding the group's
name in door to door sales taxics designs disguised as charitable.
First of all, in HK, the channel that was going
to air it, first of all, change the name to
Dangerous Whispers instead of the Devil's Whispers, but the church
(29:00):
also tried to tried to make them cancel like the
show from happening and airing. As far as I'm aware,
I think it actually did air a couple of nights
ago though.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Glad, gleg gleg Glad they got it through. But like
the fact that, yeah, the name changes, like really.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Yeah, I'm like, still, it's pretty ridiculous, Like maybe they
changed it, but I think what they had said it
was like sometimes in post production will change the name
for whatever reason or something like that. But it's like,
are you sure it's not, because the church complained.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
So I don't really know.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Well, and I guess I guess. I guess no. One
more thing I wanted to talk a bit about, which
is that, And this is something we've been seeing already,
is people talking about like, oh, you shouldn't just spand
the church on religious freedom grounds. And that's something that
the U see has been really really successful at sort
of hiding behind you when anyone tries to go after them,
like they did this in the seventies and eighties, when
(29:58):
there were campaigns to like prosecute them for just the
crimes they were doing. Was that a bunch of sort
of like like not just not just right wing groups,
but sort of like like like civil libertarian groups, Like
like we're like, oh, you can't do this because if you,
if if they go after the Uthi Gacia Church, they're
going to be able to go after like any religious groups.
And that's just like not true, Like it's just not true.
(30:19):
These people are not like what what whatever you're you know,
in terms of sort of whatever, like the crimes of
like a normal religious group group are like the church
is not a normal religious group. They have been funding
desk squads for like longer than most of the people
listening to the show have been alive. And yeah, I
(30:40):
don't know, I I I just want to sort of
like like just make people aware of it. They're going
to try this shit again. And it was it was
bullshit less and they did it. It's bullshit now.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yeah, And that's that's the thing that keeps annoying me.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Well, it's not the same.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
There are many things about this that annoy me and
make me very enraged, but one of them is that
the playbook doesn't change.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
No, it's very very straightforward. This is how it's going
to work.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I'm kind of wondering also if the cult is going
to sort of like roll out new providential edicts that
will like potentially be like, oh no, this is going
to be our new country that we get the most
money out of, or this maybe or something like, you know,
just something that they're going to say that God has
made it this way so that like, yeah, you can
change those money money funneling tunnels.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, I don't know. The only prediction that I can
make and I'm absolutely sure of is that it's going
to be wild and it's going to suck.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Yeah, I'm not looking forward to how this is going
to play out, honestly, especially given all of the like
Kamakazi squad comments and stuff. Makes me ill, It makes
it makes me scared, It makes me not feel confident
about the way that this is going to turn out.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, I'm kind of of two minds of this because
like I'm hoping this will go well and this will
actually work, and that like even if the church tries
to lash out, it's like doesn't work very well. I
do think also the way that this assassination has like
been turning just random pe like regular people in Japan
(32:20):
who don't really know anything about the church against them
has been really really interesting and powerful in a way
that was I mean not the I don't know, so
there's I've been saying is like the top of the
show kind of as a joke, but like this really
has been a very successful like political assassination in that
(32:40):
it hasn't like, it hasn't back it hasn't yet backfired
in a way that helps the church, and it seems
to have really I don't know, it seems it seems
to have very powerfully achieved this objective of getting people
to go, wait, hold on, who is this cult that
is like not I don't know, running is maybe too
(33:01):
strong of a word, but has like completely embedded itself
in the in Japan's ruling class.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Right yeah, yeah, people are asking questions now.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, which which I think is good. And I don't know,
I hope the other thing I'm hoping is that this
like people start doing this in like the US and
in Korea and in like all of the other places
that they've been doing shit like this, because this.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Is yeah, because that's been global and there have been
so many people that have been victims of this group
that I know a lot of us in America have
also started speaking out about it, and the media here
has not been quite as interested in picking up.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
What we have to say. To a degree, they have been.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
But it's usually you know, sensationalized and made a little
weird and.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Just yeah the main point. Oh sorry, yeah, go on
like that.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
There's a there's a really this is something like I've
read a lot of sort of American coverage of this
alongside the Japanese coverage, and I mean, like I expect
this of the Japanese. Wow, Okay, I guess I expect
this of both, like parts of the coverage, but there
is there has been very very little, if any willingness
to like talk about the church's connection to the CIA,
(34:22):
and there you know, people will talk about them like
as an anti communist group, but.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Right like yeah like that extra step.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, yeah, like you have like it's they're not just
in it, like there there are there are lots of
anti communist groups. I mean there are no anti communist
groups that are good, right, but like there are lots
of anti communist groups that never funded death squads in
like not what was what was the actual number? Like
sixteen I had, I had I had a count at
one point of the number of countries they funded death
(34:50):
squads in. But like like most most most most people
haven't like like funded coups in Bolivia and like you know,
kept like allowed a ran contra to happen by keeping
the contrasts in the war or like scent weapons of
the Mousia haden like yo, like they they really they
really they've I don't know, like and I I mean,
(35:13):
I like, I guess, like you know, in terms of
the sort of like this is the bourgeois press stuff
like it, like it makes sense ideologically why people don't
want to talk about their connections to the CIA and
like the operations they pulled in the US and all
of the just imperialism they've been doing. But it's it's
really depressing because yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
It feels demoralizing sometimes because people only want to tell
part of the story when it's like not too crazy
and out there sounding for them. It's like, no, I
tell you what, the actual story behind this group is
crazier and more out there than you could ever imagine.
Speaker 6 (35:49):
Like yeah, yeah, and I think I think that's that's
been an important I mean, that's why I think why
the work you're doing is really important because thank you,
like you have to actually make like you're one of
the few people like actually making these connections.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And yeah, I really I really appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I appreciate that you appreciate it, because it's sometimes it's
weird work.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
To do, Like I just read a lot about horrible things, and.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
You know, I mean, like I was saying, that can
take a toll on you to a degree, and sometimes
I'll have to take breaks from it, but at the
end of the day, I'm always going to go back
to it because, like I think it's worth doing, because
the stuff needs to be talked about.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, so, I guess do you have anything else that
you wanted to say.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Before I'll just plug deprogramming, imperialism, those two words. I
think there's an underscore on our Instagram. Let me just
double check.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
If there's an underscore, we will put links to this
in the description.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show.
And yeah, fuck these.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
People, Yeah for real, they've done some really bad stuff.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So hopefully hopefully this is finally after like so many
generations of terrible crimes they've been doing that this is
finally the one that's going to fucking crush them.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
We can hope, you know, Yeah, you can very much
hope though, And the more people are talking about it
the better. The more people understand, like the history behind
the movement, the better. So thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, and yeah, this has been It can happen here.
You can find us assuming Twitter still exists when this
goes up on Twitter, Instagram, haf in here pod. Yeah,
you can find sources of cool Zone Media. Yeah, go
go into the world, destroy imperialism and crush the remains
(37:40):
of these dog shit assholes.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yes, it could happen here as a production of cool
Zone Media.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
For more podcasts from.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zonemedia dot com
or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated
monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
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Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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