July 28, 2025 • 31 mins
Mia talks with UPMC therapist Salena Binnig and TransYOUniting founder Dena Staley about the fight against UPMC's capitation to the Trump administrations anti-trans policies and how the community is fighting back.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Call Zone Media.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to taknapp and here show about things falling apart
and how to put them back together again. I am
your host Nia Long for another It's both episode, and
when I say both, I mean we are talking about
something that we've been covering kind of some extent in
a bunch of different cities, which is a bunch of
hospitals incredibly cowardly decision to not provide trans youth with
(00:29):
gender firming care that they need out of a combination
of fear, greed, and malice. And with me to talk
about one of the places where this has been happening
and how people have been trying to resist it, and
this in this case is the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.
And so we're talking to two people who have been
fighting back against they're just hideous cowardice. One is Selena Binnock,
(00:54):
who is a therapist at UBMC, and then also Dena Staley,
who's the executive director and founder of Trans Uniting. Both
of you two, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Thank you for having us, Thank you yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
And thank you for doing this genuinely really critical work
to try to get this hospital to not severely harm
their translations.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Lord, Yeah, who know, we would be fighting this battle
right right?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah? So okay, I guess the place I want to
start is, can you explain sort of the exact situation
of what happened after their sort of recent Supreme Court
ruling and what the hospital decided to do and not do.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Yeah, So, from our understanding, what's been going on with
UPMC or the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center is they
have decided to end all gender firming care. This includes
puberty blockers hormone therapy surgeries for people under nineteen.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
And this is in response.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
To an executive order that was put out in the
spring by the Trump administration saying that providers who continued
to prescribe these medically necessary treatments would be at risk
of felony charges and that providers who supported accessing this
type of care could also be in trouble as far
(02:21):
as getting felony charges for aiding and a bedding. So
that's the way that the hospital system is interpreting this
executive order. So there has been a lot of pushback
from multiple providers people throughout UPMC, and the biggest issue
is that they created a deadline of making these changes
starting June thirtieth. This is an arbitrary date that they
(02:42):
decided within the hospital system the state was not given
to them by any kind of federal proceeding or legal mandate,
and after that time they're no longer going to be
prescribing these medications. So, starting in April, UPMC stopped taking
any new clients who are under nineteen who are looking
for hormone replacement therapy or any kind of gender firman care,
(03:04):
and starting June thirtieth, they are slowly tapering off all
clients from their pauby blockers or hormone therapy over the
course of three to six months, depending on what their
current medication course is. So what is happening, and the
thing that I think a lot of people aren't saying
out loud is that they're forcing these teens and young
adults to de transition or to or reverse their gender transition,
(03:28):
which the fear is that they will start seeking non
medically advised care to obtain and get the treatment that
they're seeking for. So that is kind of our understanding
of what's been going on behind the scenes with EPMC.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, I also just want to say, like I've had
like insurance bullshit, where like I've been taken off of
my stuff for like a month and a half and
it sucks. It is awful. It is psychologically painful in
ways that are like difficult to describe.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
It really sucks.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Right from a physical state, you're going to get side effects,
don't have issues we're coming off these medications.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
But from a mental standpoint.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Right, it's these people who are not your doctors are
determining what your care is and it's incredibly harmful in
both the physical and the mental aspect of it.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
Yeah, and again we're just talking about healthcare.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
For trans youth at the end of the day, and
a lot of them were on puberty boxers and just
a therapy. Are that they're taken away any persons over
eighteen years old, they're legally, you know, able to vote,
should be able to make their own decisions if they
want to with their health care. So it's really discussing
and disheartening what is happening. And here in Pennsylvania, UPMC
(04:41):
was the first large health provider, which is one of
the largest in the state, to start this domino effect
of stopping care for trans youth.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, and I mean it creates a cityous situation where
just like because of a combination of like some gender
bureaucrat at the White House was like, I get it
decide what your gender is now, and I get to
decide what your health care is because of that, and
then you have this like cascading effect of like some
like hospital admin was like, well, I don't know, I
think it would be easier for like me personally if
(05:13):
you didn't have health care. It's just like it's cascating
for the hospital system.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
It's horrible.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
It's horrible, and I appreciate that data makes that point
of we use this phrase gender affirming care to specify
what's going on, but it's healthcare. It's you know, not
that different from someone being forced to come off diabetes
medication or medication for a heart problem. You know, this
medication that makes people be able to function in their
life and feel safe and physically, well, that's what's being
(05:39):
forced out of their lives. So it is healthcare absolutely.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
And going into spaces that are affirming for them, you know,
as kids. You know, so now that they don't have
this affirming space to have to go into spaces that
are not affirming, they will further damage their mental you know,
when are going to these spaces being this gender and all.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Of the other things.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
You know, this is what we're talking about, just a safe,
affirming place where you can access safe, a firming health here.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I think it's worth expanding on that a little bit
in the sense that like a space that's not a
firming isn't like a neutral space. It's one that's actively
hostile to you. Absolutely that also just sucks.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Like.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It's hideous, and it's just like they decided to inflict
this on a bunch of children because they're mildly afraid.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Right, They're afraid, and they're afraid of losing money. And
there's no way to say that it's a neutral space, right,
It's you're affirming or a hostile and that's the rest.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Great.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Kids can't go to the doctor and feel safe at
this point.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, it's like cascading issues too. Right. We've been talking
about this a lot in like the context of someone
like the Medicaid cuts. But it's like anything that deters
people from going to the doctor, prevents them from going
in for like other stuff that you know could be
treated pretty easily. But then suddenly if it's like okay, well,
my hospital is now a hostile space. Just like, stop
(07:01):
going in all together until something really serious happens. I
could have been prevented. Eve the hospital wasn't paying assholes
to them, like.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
You know, I think the fear is what we're going
to see as the side effects or the consequences of this.
You know, we've been told by our supervisors or management
at UPMC that we should expect an influx of suicidal
teenagers or young adults, teenagers who are struggling with greater
symptoms of depression or even psychosis, like acute psychotic symptoms
(07:31):
are a studied side effect of abruptly.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Coming off your hormone.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
So not only do you now have these teens and
young adults who will be scared to access their care,
feel like they can't use their name, their pronouns get
the care that they need, but they're struggling with mental
health crises that are due to the changes that we're
seeing due to the withdrawal of their healthcare.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So you're seeing this in so many.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Different aspects hitting them and then the providers in this
hospital system, and I'm sure we're this all over the country.
The providers are here to pick up what's happening. That's
a decision based on administrative opinions. And like we said before,
fear so.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
That was shuit.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
A hospital admin told you that that was what was
going to happen.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
So basically after this went into place, I work in
a suicide prevention clinic, so we were told by the
people that we work with to be ready and st
start having meetings and having discussions around how to better
support these kids, knowing that through research we've found that
coming off of hormones can cause increased risk of suicidal thoughts, psychosis,
(08:35):
and depression.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Sure as fuck does that, yes, and.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
So it's like physical side effects, but also if you're
forced to detransition, you're going to be physically unsafe in
a space where you're no longer maybe passing, or you're
no longer able to be yourself, so you're a greater
risk of harassment and bullying, which then in turn can
cause higher risks of suicidal thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
It's just like so hideous that there's people like you
in the hospital system who can just tell them that
this is going to happen, and they're doing it anyways.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
It's hard because it's coming down so many layers, right,
So we're hearing it maybe from our direct management, whose
hearts are in the best place. They didn't make these decisions,
but where they're being told to follow up our management
who are making these decisions. And yes, because they were
in the hospital, they know the implications of it. But
the fear is outweighing the risks, and that's what we're
trying to fight against.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
The lightest possible response that I have to this is
I'm thinking about that Lord Farquatt line from Shrek, where
you go some of you may die, but that's a
sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Speaker 7 (09:30):
It's like these house to alignments are literally doing that.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
They're like, yeah, no, some of these kids may die,
but like whatever, that's fine. I don't have to deal
with like maybe a lawsuit in like three years.
Speaker 8 (09:41):
But they will absolutely still have to deal with lawsuits.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Yep, yep. At the end of the day.
Speaker 8 (09:47):
These are people's basic human rights. So there will be
lawsuits that happened because of that. Again, what the president
did was not fall at all whatsoever. It was just
such a to say, hey, this is something that we
should do. This is not nothing that he can actually
put into law. So what they're doing is opreum.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
The fans are sufficient to see what they can get
away with and what they can't get away with. This
is all about hav an autonomy over our healthcare and
our body at.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
The end of the day.
Speaker 6 (10:18):
And they're starting with the most vulnerable population of people,
which are trans youth.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah, they're just testing, right, This is a test to
see what else they can get away with.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
Absolutely, this is the test, and they're failing miserably. And
instead of fighting them back, you want to fight us back.
Instead of standing up and saying we're not going to
do this because it's not going to stop this. Transciits
this and never stop with trans people at all, whatsoever.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
It starts with trans people.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And DTA makes a good point.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I mean, I know, Miya, you aren't based out of Pennsylvania,
but in Pennsylvania, gender firming care remains legal from a
state level, and the city of Pittsburgh, which we are
located in, has been working really hard to protect trans youth.
So the executive order that was put in placed by
Trump one is not a federal law and two is
not at all supported by state or city wide laws.
(11:08):
So from a legal standpoint, you know what we've learned
from consulting with people like Diana who have been doing
this work much longer than we have. We've talked with
our local ACLU and other government organizations that this would
not hold up in court. So you know, that's why
the fight I think is starting here and hoping to
get bigger.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, A lot of the way this administration does stuff
is just by like writing it down on paper and
then hoping that they can just sort of shock and
awe terror people into complying. But like, if you don't comply,
they can't make you. Like it's you know, I mean
this is only so, this is only you've seen across
issue areas, right, Like, if people don't comply with ice agents,
(11:46):
it suddenly becomes incredibly hard for them to just like
carry on massyportations. If people don't comply with their hospital crackdowns,
it's actually really hard for them to stop kids and
getting gender affirming care. But if you give up, then yeah,
it's really easy, see.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Right, right, giving up before the fight really starts.
Speaker 8 (12:05):
Yeah, at some level of this, this is what they want,
You're okay with it, you know, because the dolls don't
really matter, Like, no, it doesn't matter which way it goes.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
That we really want to fight it now.
Speaker 8 (12:15):
We all want this a small group of people, we're
not going to fight it.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
And if they fight it and they win, then we'll
give it back. Whatever.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Again, they have armies of lawyers UPMC has armies of
lawyers that can really go and really attack this from
all different angles. Bring in community ad kids, bring together
all these you know, the Woman's Lot Project, ACL you,
all these different folks that come in with them and
really hammer it to this administration. But they choose to
(12:46):
not do that and choose to be complicit in the
bull craft.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, okay, so we unfortunately need to go to ads.
When we come back, we will talk about how we're
going to fight back. Yeah, it would be great. We
are backed so remarkably quickly after this stuff all started.
There's a pretty large protest, like outside of the hospital
(13:13):
to get them to stop doing this. Can you talk
about how this all sort of started to come together
and how these efforts got organized.
Speaker 6 (13:20):
So I started hearing rumbles about this in December and
in January, you know, once he got it into office
and things, and you know, immediately he signed the exxective order.
I think like a little bit after that, and by
April we start activating and figuring out what we wanted
to do because UPMC had made that first directive to
(13:44):
not accept anymore on trans youth.
Speaker 8 (13:46):
At all, whatsoever, you think young adults, anyone under the
age of nineteen.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
So we did our first action in April.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
I may start following up getting information out to disseminate
the right information out to community members and doing all
of the behind the scenes work connecting folks to the
necessary resources that they need. So we could, you know,
start fighting back at UPMC.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Loan behold to us.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Dina and trans Uniting have been doing a lot of
work to kind of set the stage for us to
get involved, which is really awesome. We were made aware
of what's going on with UPMC well after, you know,
Dina and some of the community members have been so
I believe it was early June, maybe end of May.
Some of my really amazing coworkers and I decided, you know,
(14:32):
we can't really just sit back and do nothing. And
I think at the clinic I work in, there was
a big feeling of helplessness. You know, what can we do?
How do we fight back on our bosses. You know,
we were feeling stuck, and we are a suicide prevention clinic.
We're not specifically a gender clinic, but because we know
that there's a high proportion of trans and gay youth
who are at risk of suicide in the general population,
(14:53):
we work with a lot of trans youth. So we
were seeing this impact us directly in the sense of
the work that we do. So some of my coworkers
wrote a letter to UPMC explaining the way that we're
feeling about this, asking them to reverse this decision. The
letter discussed several local laws and state laws that would
protect them as well as hit them where they hurt,
(15:15):
as far as discussing the money that they have and
the available funds they have to fight this. The letter
was incredibly assigned by almost four hundred actually, I think
at this point over four hundred staff at the hospital
system we work it.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
It's amazing.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Yes, And while this letter was being drafted, some of
my coworkers met with consultants through the ACLU and other
local organizations to one make sure what we were doing
was okay, that we were not jeopardizing too much of
our own safety as far as employment goes, but also
to get their opinions and start to rally organizations. So
(15:49):
the ACLU is to put us in touch with Dina
and Transuniting, and Dina jumped on it. In less than
two weeks, she and her coworkers had created built up
a rally for us, which we had outside of the
UPMC building downtown just a couple of weeks ago, and
we had local lawmakers speak. I spoke along with my
(16:09):
coworkers who helped write the letter being spoken to. You know,
if you want to speak more of about rally, I
think that'd be awesome.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
I just want to say, this is what a ship
feels like, you know, accomplices in the fight against this,
you know, heinous crime, because this is exactly what it is.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
You know, it's an attack on trans Last.
Speaker 8 (16:26):
But we broke a lot of folks together, community members,
politicians and workers from UPMC all together.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
We had about three hundred and some folks that showed up.
Speaker 6 (16:37):
We were on the steps of UPMC's headquarters in downtown Pittsburgh,
and we also coordinated with some state wife folks that
are actually doing a couple of actions throughout this month.
But they there were two actions that happened that same
day as well, and you know, what is happening is
not right, so we had to make sure that the
(16:58):
community is being educated and we're activating community members at
the same time, you know, I also wanted them to
know about this fund that we were launching to help
the kiddos in this situation, because folks.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Are still going to need to you know, be.
Speaker 6 (17:12):
Able to access some type of health care, so you know,
making sure that they are aware of their options and
making sure they're able to have funds to do so,
because you know, with everything happening, they are probably going
to get cut off of their health care insurance as well,
you know, and that is a real scare and if
that happens, then what you know, So that was kind
(17:34):
of what happened with that situation, and it was amazing,
you know, everybody was amazing.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
But I just you know, definitely want to shout.
Speaker 8 (17:41):
Out to and our whole team because listen, we need
more accomplices like that in this fight.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
You know, we are a.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
Small but mighty community and we will not be able
to get the things done that needs to be done
to protect not just us, but all of us if
we're not all united.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
I mean, we couldn't do it without you, guys, and
the power you've felt and the beautiful voices that you
bring to the fight.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
It's truly awesome.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I think one of the things that we're seeing from this,
and you know that we've seen from all of the
anti trans repression is that like, on the one hand, yeah,
trans people are like one and a half percent of
the population, and we're disapportionately like the most broke and
fucked up percentage of that population.
Speaker 7 (18:26):
And also we are significantly better organizers, like person for
a person than all of the people fighting us. It's like, yeah,
like they have unbelievable amounts of resources. However, Comma, we
are really good at like.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
This specific thing of organizing and fighting back.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
And yeah, well sadly, like trans people have had to
fight for so long, they've learned to do it.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
And their loved ones, man, they were there.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
When we were at the rally a couple of weeks ago,
I had parents of trans kids hugging me, you know,
like they show up and they fight for their people,
and it's really empowering.
Speaker 9 (18:58):
We don't have that choice but to do that, you know,
we don't have that choice, but to show we don't
have that choice but to fight, because we had to
all of our lives in order to, you know, continue
to walk in our truth, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, and like I mean, you know, I could talk
about sort of the structural factors that make that true,
but there's also just if you're gonna be trands at
some point you have to choose to accept it, and
like the fact that it's an identity that like you
have to make a choice to be like I'm gonna
fucking do this and like, Okay, I am this person
(19:31):
that I've always known that I am, etcetera, et cetera.
I think they're also just like it selects for like
a small extent for people who are willing to just
like fuck it, let's go. And I don't know, that's
been the thing I've always like appreciated about the way
that like these kind of organizing efforts unfold there. Okay,
(19:55):
so let's talk about what the reaction has been to
the protest, to the actions both from the hospital and
from the community at large.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Looking at both of those things, I guess one of
the coolest reactions we're seeing is a lot of people
coming out in solidarity who.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Work at the hospital system.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
So the people who originally wrote the letter, who were
part of this rally, we are trying to organize more
community meetings, more town halls, contacting people through email, and
Dina has been very involved in that along with some
other local organizations. But the word is spreading and we're
getting in touch with a lot of people in a
lot of different departments throughout the hospital who are here
(20:34):
and want to show up.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
You know, we're seeing.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Physicians, social workers. UPMC is also, of course a massive
insurance conglomerate, and we're seeing people who work in the
insurance side of things come out to support this. So
that's been really amazing as far as what things are
looking like. As administration feedback, we are being told the
same response repeatedly that UPMC is doing what they have
(20:58):
to do to quote unquote abide with the law, and
they're making the decisions that they are making because of
the quote unquote law, and they will continue to offer
behavioral health support to trans youth and young adults to
support them through this crisis. So, you know, we are
trying to meet together and talk a lot about what
that means. Of course, there is some fear of will
(21:20):
that be stripped away. You know, we actually saw not
that long ago. I think it was only last week
that you know, Ohio they built into their state budget
that Medicaid can no longer cover quote unquote transaffirming therapy.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So this isn't.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Even puberty blockers, it's not hormones. It's talk therapy.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
And what will that mean?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
You know, we hope that we're protected here in Pennsylvania,
but there's always risks that this can come into place
at a federal level. So these talking points that they're
sticking to, it's not too black and white as they're
presenting it. You know, they're not abiding with any certain law.
We don't know that therapy is protected. But that's what's
kind of they're sticking to. And that's just what's repeatedly
being stated throughout various press contacts because that are being
(22:00):
made through the hospital.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
They're doing whatever the fuck they want to do.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah, to put it lightly, yeah, yeah, this.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
Is what's happening, and we just have to continue to
fight because they want to take us back to the
nineteen fifties and.
Speaker 6 (22:16):
That's not going to happen. That's not going to happen
at all whatsoever. This ain't nineteen fifty.
Speaker 8 (22:21):
This is twenty twenty five, and you can take away
all you want to.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
We're going to fight and we're going to put it
back in place.
Speaker 8 (22:28):
A lot of times it is so much harder to
take things away and try to get them back.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
But you know, unfortunately we're here and a lot of
Americans didn't think that we would be in this predicament.
It's not going to get nothing but worse. So hopefully
it opens up people's ass and we have to unite
as a people.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
That's it. That's it, That's all around all of these issues.
Speaker 6 (22:51):
There's so much happening, so much being thrown on us
at one time, but we have to unite as minority
people or we will be in a place like nineteen fifties,
because I mean we broughtbly be in a great depression
Bay January, we will be in a great depression.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
Everybody, get ready?
Speaker 6 (23:10):
Hope you got your a good Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Well, I think there's there's another element of this too,
which is that like you can look at them doing
a like, oh, we're just following orders thing, but there's
no actual orders, which makes it even more pathetic than
like the original We're just following orders people, which again,
and I want to note this, just following orders did
not prevent you from being tried at Nuremberg, like that
was found to not be a defense, so like right,
(23:37):
remembering of where that went down here Strey. But the
second thing too, is like in terms of like there
being so many different things where like everyone needs to
sort of pull together and fight this the other advantage
that we have that's different from like thirties Nazi Germany, right,
Like this stuff is all really unpopular, like everyone hates it,
everyone hates trump Is approval ratings are terrible. The proof
rings for everything he's doing across the bord are just
(23:58):
really bad. The thing about the Nazis was that, like
Nazi Germany, people.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
Wanted they were utified.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, like at least to some extent, they were able
to smash, like, you know, they were able to sort
of wipe out everyone who was supposing them, like significant
portions of the population wanted all of that shit to happen.
And then it's just not true here, right, And you know,
our job is to make sure that like the fact
that nobody wants the shit to happen actually turns into it,
not happening instead of just you know, this unhinged autocratic
(24:28):
like you're king is like writing decrees on piece of
paper and suddenly hospitals are following them even though there's
just nothing.
Speaker 8 (24:37):
Nothing that's a bobo crap. But again, and we just
have to band together.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
I think folks still in a sense, they're in that
mind frame of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 8 (24:47):
It's like this is that twenty twenty four at all? Whatsoever?
And if we don't get with it, I don't know. Yeah,
but we're going to continue to fight. That's not going
to stop. We're going to continue to you know, make
way and activate, educate people about their rights and you know,
create spaces or transit to be and be safe as
(25:10):
much as possible can do it all.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
But as much as we can do, we will do.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah. And I think that also raises a question for
people listening to the show, which is that what can
people do to put pressure on this hospital or their
local hospital to do this, and how can people sort
of help the effort to get UPMC to fucking give
kids their health care?
Speaker 8 (25:37):
Absolutely, so what they can do is they can go
visit transridg dot org, make a sign, a petition that
we have a you can donate to the fund that
we have going currently. Locally, what they can do is,
you know, work with their borough or city councils to
(25:58):
create legislation to protect trans kids and use young adults,
and on state wide levels as well. But what we
have to do is we have to put pressure from
the top and from the bottom, you know, on the
government to you know, the state government to make these changes,
because again there are no.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Laws in place at all whatsoever.
Speaker 6 (26:20):
So now we have to take that and we have
to make laws state wide in each state protect not
just trans youth the young adults, but trans individuals and
any minority groups that are being attacked by this Orange
Man's regime.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Yeah, it's a lot of trailing together. And I think
what we've seen here is how amazingly we were all
able to come together as a community and fight and
I think reaching out to your local organizations. I mean,
if every city had a Dina Stanley, they would be
in a much better position to fight this fight. But
(26:57):
you know, working together with the people who know how
to organize and fight, but also not be afraid to
get your feet wet in that active organizing.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
You know.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
We have been working with Action Network to open up
letter writing to our community so that you don't have
to be a UPMC staff to let UPMC know how
you're feeling. We're trying to host more town halls and
community meetings. We hit Instagram. We have an account Club
Providers for Trans Justice, where we're trying to get the
word out so we can rally more together. I think
(27:27):
a big pieces if you're able to contribute financially. Trans
Uniting has their Youth Healing Fund. I believed, you know
that's what it's called, where people can financially support trans
youth who are having trouble accessing their care, and especially
knowing what we know what's going to happen with Medicaid,
this is even more important. So I mean, if you
(27:47):
want to support us in our fight against UPMC.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I think it's be loud. It's not stop.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
I believe that the hospital is just waiting for everybody
to quiet down. But we're only going to get louder
because these taper plans just started for these teens and
young adults, they're still on their medications, and the further
way that gets, the ladder we're going to be because the
risk is really going to increase as the months go on.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
Absolutely, So don't stop be loud all the time, the
accomplices in this fight because no matter what, and know
that you're next, So you can either join in or
you can wait for your turn, and by that time
may be too late and there won't be no one
to be able to stand up the fight.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah. And I think I've been saying on the show
a lot is it's not even just that after they
come for us, they're going to come for you. It's
that in order to come for us, they are going
through you first. Like that's what this whole administration has been.
They are willing to destroy the entire global economy. They're
willing to turn the US into a police state. They
are willing to again just grab people off the street
(28:52):
in order to destroy very very small groups of people.
They are willing to inviserate the lives of every single
person in this country. And the good news is that
means that because we're all targets, we all have the
capacity to resist together and and we're going to.
Speaker 6 (29:08):
It's just that people have to understand that you know
that we are targets and understand what is actually happening
like these are tacked on trans folks. It's not about
trans individuals. It's about autonomy of a women's body. The
tax over immigrants, it's not about the immigrants.
Speaker 8 (29:23):
It's about citizenships for black and brown people that have it,
you know what I mean. So this again, it's just
about having control over folks period. And as soon as
people understand that and know that, you will, you know,
be a slave of this country and in a way
that you've never been because we all are but a
slave of this country like you've never been before.
Speaker 5 (29:46):
You better get with it and.
Speaker 6 (29:47):
Open your eyes up and stand up and fight back,
or you will be in a situation that you would
just be sitting there thinking like I should have could
have what you did.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
So stand that now.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
The fight we're having with UPNC, I mean, of course
it's important. It's this is my employer, this is where
I live. But it is just a small fight in
the broader scheme of the fights we have. And you know,
this brings up a good point of we fight for
trans youth because of what might come next, but it's
already coming.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
We have a lot of people of color who are
already scared to leave the country because they don't know
if they'll be allowed back in with their passport status.
We have, you know, women who are no longer able
to access abortion care or reproductive care in many places
in this country. I mean, it's not if it's going
to happen, it's when, and it already is. So the
more we fight in, the louder we can be for
the people who are hit the most, the more likely
(30:40):
that this fight will drag on and hit them, so
less fights can start in the future.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
But it's happening. We're seeing it everywhere.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah, I think that's an amazing place to end. Thank
you to both so much for coming on and for
fighting this fight.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Absolutely, thank you for having us.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
I think it's really awesome to get the platform to
show what we're doing and hope people, hopefully people will
feel less scared. Right, there's power numbers, there's power and solidarity.
The more people we have fighting along us, the easier
it gets to fight.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
The power is the people, and we are the people.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I am incredibly looking forward to talking to you again.
Will be fucking win this lovebody that great.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Pop champagne over the microphone.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Okay, it could happen here is a production of cool
Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit
our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You can now find sources for It could happen here
listened directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
Call Zone Media.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to taknapp and here show about things falling apart
and how to put them back together again. I am
your host Nia Long for another It's both episode, and
when I say both, I mean we are talking about
something that we've been covering kind of some extent in
a bunch of different cities, which is a bunch of
hospitals incredibly cowardly decision to not provide trans youth with
(00:29):
gender firming care that they need out of a combination
of fear, greed, and malice. And with me to talk
about one of the places where this has been happening
and how people have been trying to resist it, and
this in this case is the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.
And so we're talking to two people who have been
fighting back against they're just hideous cowardice. One is Selena Binnock,
(00:54):
who is a therapist at UBMC, and then also Dena Staley,
who's the executive director and founder of Trans Uniting. Both
of you two, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Thank you for having us, Thank you yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
And thank you for doing this genuinely really critical work
to try to get this hospital to not severely harm
their translations.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Lord, Yeah, who know, we would be fighting this battle
right right?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah? So okay, I guess the place I want to
start is, can you explain sort of the exact situation
of what happened after their sort of recent Supreme Court
ruling and what the hospital decided to do and not do.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Yeah, So, from our understanding, what's been going on with
UPMC or the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center is they
have decided to end all gender firming care. This includes
puberty blockers hormone therapy surgeries for people under nineteen.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
And this is in response.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
To an executive order that was put out in the
spring by the Trump administration saying that providers who continued
to prescribe these medically necessary treatments would be at risk
of felony charges and that providers who supported accessing this
type of care could also be in trouble as far
(02:21):
as getting felony charges for aiding and a bedding. So
that's the way that the hospital system is interpreting this
executive order. So there has been a lot of pushback
from multiple providers people throughout UPMC, and the biggest issue
is that they created a deadline of making these changes
starting June thirtieth. This is an arbitrary date that they
(02:42):
decided within the hospital system the state was not given
to them by any kind of federal proceeding or legal mandate,
and after that time they're no longer going to be
prescribing these medications. So, starting in April, UPMC stopped taking
any new clients who are under nineteen who are looking
for hormone replacement therapy or any kind of gender firman care,
(03:04):
and starting June thirtieth, they are slowly tapering off all
clients from their pauby blockers or hormone therapy over the
course of three to six months, depending on what their
current medication course is. So what is happening, and the
thing that I think a lot of people aren't saying
out loud is that they're forcing these teens and young
adults to de transition or to or reverse their gender transition,
(03:28):
which the fear is that they will start seeking non
medically advised care to obtain and get the treatment that
they're seeking for. So that is kind of our understanding
of what's been going on behind the scenes with EPMC.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, I also just want to say, like I've had
like insurance bullshit, where like I've been taken off of
my stuff for like a month and a half and
it sucks. It is awful. It is psychologically painful in
ways that are like difficult to describe.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
It really sucks.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Right from a physical state, you're going to get side effects,
don't have issues we're coming off these medications.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
But from a mental standpoint.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Right, it's these people who are not your doctors are
determining what your care is and it's incredibly harmful in
both the physical and the mental aspect of it.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
Yeah, and again we're just talking about healthcare.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
For trans youth at the end of the day, and
a lot of them were on puberty boxers and just
a therapy. Are that they're taken away any persons over
eighteen years old, they're legally, you know, able to vote,
should be able to make their own decisions if they
want to with their health care. So it's really discussing
and disheartening what is happening. And here in Pennsylvania, UPMC
(04:41):
was the first large health provider, which is one of
the largest in the state, to start this domino effect
of stopping care for trans youth.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, and I mean it creates a cityous situation where
just like because of a combination of like some gender
bureaucrat at the White House was like, I get it
decide what your gender is now, and I get to
decide what your health care is because of that, and
then you have this like cascading effect of like some
like hospital admin was like, well, I don't know, I
think it would be easier for like me personally if
(05:13):
you didn't have health care. It's just like it's cascating
for the hospital system.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
It's horrible.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
It's horrible, and I appreciate that data makes that point
of we use this phrase gender affirming care to specify
what's going on, but it's healthcare. It's you know, not
that different from someone being forced to come off diabetes
medication or medication for a heart problem. You know, this
medication that makes people be able to function in their
life and feel safe and physically, well, that's what's being
(05:39):
forced out of their lives. So it is healthcare absolutely.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
And going into spaces that are affirming for them, you know,
as kids. You know, so now that they don't have
this affirming space to have to go into spaces that
are not affirming, they will further damage their mental you know,
when are going to these spaces being this gender and all.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Of the other things.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
You know, this is what we're talking about, just a safe,
affirming place where you can access safe, a firming health here.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I think it's worth expanding on that a little bit
in the sense that like a space that's not a
firming isn't like a neutral space. It's one that's actively
hostile to you. Absolutely that also just sucks.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Like.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It's hideous, and it's just like they decided to inflict
this on a bunch of children because they're mildly afraid.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Right, They're afraid, and they're afraid of losing money. And
there's no way to say that it's a neutral space, right,
It's you're affirming or a hostile and that's the rest.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Great.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Kids can't go to the doctor and feel safe at
this point.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, it's like cascading issues too. Right. We've been talking
about this a lot in like the context of someone
like the Medicaid cuts. But it's like anything that deters
people from going to the doctor, prevents them from going
in for like other stuff that you know could be
treated pretty easily. But then suddenly if it's like okay, well,
my hospital is now a hostile space. Just like, stop
(07:01):
going in all together until something really serious happens. I
could have been prevented. Eve the hospital wasn't paying assholes
to them, like.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
You know, I think the fear is what we're going
to see as the side effects or the consequences of this.
You know, we've been told by our supervisors or management
at UPMC that we should expect an influx of suicidal
teenagers or young adults, teenagers who are struggling with greater
symptoms of depression or even psychosis, like acute psychotic symptoms
(07:31):
are a studied side effect of abruptly.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Coming off your hormone.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
So not only do you now have these teens and
young adults who will be scared to access their care,
feel like they can't use their name, their pronouns get
the care that they need, but they're struggling with mental
health crises that are due to the changes that we're
seeing due to the withdrawal of their healthcare.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So you're seeing this in so many.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Different aspects hitting them and then the providers in this
hospital system, and I'm sure we're this all over the country.
The providers are here to pick up what's happening. That's
a decision based on administrative opinions. And like we said before,
fear so.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
That was shuit.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
A hospital admin told you that that was what was
going to happen.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
So basically after this went into place, I work in
a suicide prevention clinic, so we were told by the
people that we work with to be ready and st
start having meetings and having discussions around how to better
support these kids, knowing that through research we've found that
coming off of hormones can cause increased risk of suicidal thoughts, psychosis,
(08:35):
and depression.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Sure as fuck does that, yes, and.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
So it's like physical side effects, but also if you're
forced to detransition, you're going to be physically unsafe in
a space where you're no longer maybe passing, or you're
no longer able to be yourself, so you're a greater
risk of harassment and bullying, which then in turn can
cause higher risks of suicidal thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
It's just like so hideous that there's people like you
in the hospital system who can just tell them that
this is going to happen, and they're doing it anyways.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
It's hard because it's coming down so many layers, right,
So we're hearing it maybe from our direct management, whose
hearts are in the best place. They didn't make these decisions,
but where they're being told to follow up our management
who are making these decisions. And yes, because they were
in the hospital, they know the implications of it. But
the fear is outweighing the risks, and that's what we're
trying to fight against.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
The lightest possible response that I have to this is
I'm thinking about that Lord Farquatt line from Shrek, where
you go some of you may die, but that's a
sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Speaker 7 (09:30):
It's like these house to alignments are literally doing that.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
They're like, yeah, no, some of these kids may die,
but like whatever, that's fine. I don't have to deal
with like maybe a lawsuit in like three years.
Speaker 8 (09:41):
But they will absolutely still have to deal with lawsuits.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Yep, yep. At the end of the day.
Speaker 8 (09:47):
These are people's basic human rights. So there will be
lawsuits that happened because of that. Again, what the president
did was not fall at all whatsoever. It was just
such a to say, hey, this is something that we
should do. This is not nothing that he can actually
put into law. So what they're doing is opreum.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
The fans are sufficient to see what they can get
away with and what they can't get away with. This
is all about hav an autonomy over our healthcare and
our body at.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
The end of the day.
Speaker 6 (10:18):
And they're starting with the most vulnerable population of people,
which are trans youth.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah, they're just testing, right, This is a test to
see what else they can get away with.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
Absolutely, this is the test, and they're failing miserably. And
instead of fighting them back, you want to fight us back.
Instead of standing up and saying we're not going to
do this because it's not going to stop this. Transciits
this and never stop with trans people at all, whatsoever.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
It starts with trans people.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And DTA makes a good point.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I mean, I know, Miya, you aren't based out of Pennsylvania,
but in Pennsylvania, gender firming care remains legal from a
state level, and the city of Pittsburgh, which we are
located in, has been working really hard to protect trans youth.
So the executive order that was put in placed by
Trump one is not a federal law and two is
not at all supported by state or city wide laws.
(11:08):
So from a legal standpoint, you know what we've learned
from consulting with people like Diana who have been doing
this work much longer than we have. We've talked with
our local ACLU and other government organizations that this would
not hold up in court. So you know, that's why
the fight I think is starting here and hoping to
get bigger.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, A lot of the way this administration does stuff
is just by like writing it down on paper and
then hoping that they can just sort of shock and
awe terror people into complying. But like, if you don't comply,
they can't make you. Like it's you know, I mean
this is only so, this is only you've seen across
issue areas, right, Like, if people don't comply with ice agents,
(11:46):
it suddenly becomes incredibly hard for them to just like
carry on massyportations. If people don't comply with their hospital crackdowns,
it's actually really hard for them to stop kids and
getting gender affirming care. But if you give up, then yeah,
it's really easy, see.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Right, right, giving up before the fight really starts.
Speaker 8 (12:05):
Yeah, at some level of this, this is what they want,
You're okay with it, you know, because the dolls don't
really matter, Like, no, it doesn't matter which way it goes.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
That we really want to fight it now.
Speaker 8 (12:15):
We all want this a small group of people, we're
not going to fight it.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
And if they fight it and they win, then we'll
give it back. Whatever.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Again, they have armies of lawyers UPMC has armies of
lawyers that can really go and really attack this from
all different angles. Bring in community ad kids, bring together
all these you know, the Woman's Lot Project, ACL you,
all these different folks that come in with them and
really hammer it to this administration. But they choose to
(12:46):
not do that and choose to be complicit in the
bull craft.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, okay, so we unfortunately need to go to ads.
When we come back, we will talk about how we're
going to fight back. Yeah, it would be great. We
are backed so remarkably quickly after this stuff all started.
There's a pretty large protest, like outside of the hospital
(13:13):
to get them to stop doing this. Can you talk
about how this all sort of started to come together
and how these efforts got organized.
Speaker 6 (13:20):
So I started hearing rumbles about this in December and
in January, you know, once he got it into office
and things, and you know, immediately he signed the exxective order.
I think like a little bit after that, and by
April we start activating and figuring out what we wanted
to do because UPMC had made that first directive to
(13:44):
not accept anymore on trans youth.
Speaker 8 (13:46):
At all, whatsoever, you think young adults, anyone under the
age of nineteen.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
So we did our first action in April.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
I may start following up getting information out to disseminate
the right information out to community members and doing all
of the behind the scenes work connecting folks to the
necessary resources that they need. So we could, you know,
start fighting back at UPMC.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Loan behold to us.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Dina and trans Uniting have been doing a lot of
work to kind of set the stage for us to
get involved, which is really awesome. We were made aware
of what's going on with UPMC well after, you know,
Dina and some of the community members have been so
I believe it was early June, maybe end of May.
Some of my really amazing coworkers and I decided, you know,
(14:32):
we can't really just sit back and do nothing. And
I think at the clinic I work in, there was
a big feeling of helplessness. You know, what can we do?
How do we fight back on our bosses. You know,
we were feeling stuck, and we are a suicide prevention clinic.
We're not specifically a gender clinic, but because we know
that there's a high proportion of trans and gay youth
who are at risk of suicide in the general population,
(14:53):
we work with a lot of trans youth. So we
were seeing this impact us directly in the sense of
the work that we do. So some of my coworkers
wrote a letter to UPMC explaining the way that we're
feeling about this, asking them to reverse this decision. The
letter discussed several local laws and state laws that would
protect them as well as hit them where they hurt,
(15:15):
as far as discussing the money that they have and
the available funds they have to fight this. The letter
was incredibly assigned by almost four hundred actually, I think
at this point over four hundred staff at the hospital
system we work it.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
It's amazing.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Yes, And while this letter was being drafted, some of
my coworkers met with consultants through the ACLU and other
local organizations to one make sure what we were doing
was okay, that we were not jeopardizing too much of
our own safety as far as employment goes, but also
to get their opinions and start to rally organizations. So
(15:49):
the ACLU is to put us in touch with Dina
and Transuniting, and Dina jumped on it. In less than
two weeks, she and her coworkers had created built up
a rally for us, which we had outside of the
UPMC building downtown just a couple of weeks ago, and
we had local lawmakers speak. I spoke along with my
(16:09):
coworkers who helped write the letter being spoken to. You know,
if you want to speak more of about rally, I
think that'd be awesome.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
I just want to say, this is what a ship
feels like, you know, accomplices in the fight against this,
you know, heinous crime, because this is exactly what it is.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
You know, it's an attack on trans Last.
Speaker 8 (16:26):
But we broke a lot of folks together, community members,
politicians and workers from UPMC all together.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
We had about three hundred and some folks that showed up.
Speaker 6 (16:37):
We were on the steps of UPMC's headquarters in downtown Pittsburgh,
and we also coordinated with some state wife folks that
are actually doing a couple of actions throughout this month.
But they there were two actions that happened that same
day as well, and you know, what is happening is
not right, so we had to make sure that the
(16:58):
community is being educated and we're activating community members at
the same time, you know, I also wanted them to
know about this fund that we were launching to help
the kiddos in this situation, because folks.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Are still going to need to you know, be.
Speaker 6 (17:12):
Able to access some type of health care, so you know,
making sure that they are aware of their options and
making sure they're able to have funds to do so,
because you know, with everything happening, they are probably going
to get cut off of their health care insurance as well,
you know, and that is a real scare and if
that happens, then what you know, So that was kind
(17:34):
of what happened with that situation, and it was amazing,
you know, everybody was amazing.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
But I just you know, definitely want to shout.
Speaker 8 (17:41):
Out to and our whole team because listen, we need
more accomplices like that in this fight.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
You know, we are a.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
Small but mighty community and we will not be able
to get the things done that needs to be done
to protect not just us, but all of us if
we're not all united.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
I mean, we couldn't do it without you, guys, and
the power you've felt and the beautiful voices that you
bring to the fight.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
It's truly awesome.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I think one of the things that we're seeing from this,
and you know that we've seen from all of the
anti trans repression is that like, on the one hand, yeah,
trans people are like one and a half percent of
the population, and we're disapportionately like the most broke and
fucked up percentage of that population.
Speaker 7 (18:26):
And also we are significantly better organizers, like person for
a person than all of the people fighting us. It's like, yeah,
like they have unbelievable amounts of resources. However, Comma, we
are really good at like.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
This specific thing of organizing and fighting back.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
And yeah, well sadly, like trans people have had to
fight for so long, they've learned to do it.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
And their loved ones, man, they were there.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
When we were at the rally a couple of weeks ago,
I had parents of trans kids hugging me, you know,
like they show up and they fight for their people,
and it's really empowering.
Speaker 9 (18:58):
We don't have that choice but to do that, you know,
we don't have that choice, but to show we don't
have that choice but to fight, because we had to
all of our lives in order to, you know, continue
to walk in our truth, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, and like I mean, you know, I could talk
about sort of the structural factors that make that true,
but there's also just if you're gonna be trands at
some point you have to choose to accept it, and
like the fact that it's an identity that like you
have to make a choice to be like I'm gonna
fucking do this and like, Okay, I am this person
(19:31):
that I've always known that I am, etcetera, et cetera.
I think they're also just like it selects for like
a small extent for people who are willing to just
like fuck it, let's go. And I don't know, that's
been the thing I've always like appreciated about the way
that like these kind of organizing efforts unfold there. Okay,
(19:55):
so let's talk about what the reaction has been to
the protest, to the actions both from the hospital and
from the community at large.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Looking at both of those things, I guess one of
the coolest reactions we're seeing is a lot of people
coming out in solidarity who.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Work at the hospital system.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
So the people who originally wrote the letter, who were
part of this rally, we are trying to organize more
community meetings, more town halls, contacting people through email, and
Dina has been very involved in that along with some
other local organizations. But the word is spreading and we're
getting in touch with a lot of people in a
lot of different departments throughout the hospital who are here
(20:34):
and want to show up.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
You know, we're seeing.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Physicians, social workers. UPMC is also, of course a massive
insurance conglomerate, and we're seeing people who work in the
insurance side of things come out to support this. So
that's been really amazing as far as what things are
looking like. As administration feedback, we are being told the
same response repeatedly that UPMC is doing what they have
(20:58):
to do to quote unquote abide with the law, and
they're making the decisions that they are making because of
the quote unquote law, and they will continue to offer
behavioral health support to trans youth and young adults to
support them through this crisis. So, you know, we are
trying to meet together and talk a lot about what
that means. Of course, there is some fear of will
(21:20):
that be stripped away. You know, we actually saw not
that long ago. I think it was only last week
that you know, Ohio they built into their state budget
that Medicaid can no longer cover quote unquote transaffirming therapy.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So this isn't.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Even puberty blockers, it's not hormones. It's talk therapy.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
And what will that mean?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
You know, we hope that we're protected here in Pennsylvania,
but there's always risks that this can come into place
at a federal level. So these talking points that they're
sticking to, it's not too black and white as they're
presenting it. You know, they're not abiding with any certain law.
We don't know that therapy is protected. But that's what's
kind of they're sticking to. And that's just what's repeatedly
being stated throughout various press contacts because that are being
(22:00):
made through the hospital.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
They're doing whatever the fuck they want to do.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah, to put it lightly, yeah, yeah, this.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
Is what's happening, and we just have to continue to
fight because they want to take us back to the
nineteen fifties and.
Speaker 6 (22:16):
That's not going to happen. That's not going to happen
at all whatsoever. This ain't nineteen fifty.
Speaker 8 (22:21):
This is twenty twenty five, and you can take away
all you want to.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
We're going to fight and we're going to put it
back in place.
Speaker 8 (22:28):
A lot of times it is so much harder to
take things away and try to get them back.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
But you know, unfortunately we're here and a lot of
Americans didn't think that we would be in this predicament.
It's not going to get nothing but worse. So hopefully
it opens up people's ass and we have to unite
as a people.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
That's it. That's it, That's all around all of these issues.
Speaker 6 (22:51):
There's so much happening, so much being thrown on us
at one time, but we have to unite as minority
people or we will be in a place like nineteen fifties,
because I mean we broughtbly be in a great depression
Bay January, we will be in a great depression.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
Everybody, get ready?
Speaker 6 (23:10):
Hope you got your a good Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Well, I think there's there's another element of this too,
which is that like you can look at them doing
a like, oh, we're just following orders thing, but there's
no actual orders, which makes it even more pathetic than
like the original We're just following orders people, which again,
and I want to note this, just following orders did
not prevent you from being tried at Nuremberg, like that
was found to not be a defense, so like right,
(23:37):
remembering of where that went down here Strey. But the
second thing too, is like in terms of like there
being so many different things where like everyone needs to
sort of pull together and fight this the other advantage
that we have that's different from like thirties Nazi Germany, right,
Like this stuff is all really unpopular, like everyone hates it,
everyone hates trump Is approval ratings are terrible. The proof
rings for everything he's doing across the bord are just
(23:58):
really bad. The thing about the Nazis was that, like
Nazi Germany, people.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
Wanted they were utified.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, like at least to some extent, they were able
to smash, like, you know, they were able to sort
of wipe out everyone who was supposing them, like significant
portions of the population wanted all of that shit to happen.
And then it's just not true here, right, And you know,
our job is to make sure that like the fact
that nobody wants the shit to happen actually turns into it,
not happening instead of just you know, this unhinged autocratic
(24:28):
like you're king is like writing decrees on piece of
paper and suddenly hospitals are following them even though there's
just nothing.
Speaker 8 (24:37):
Nothing that's a bobo crap. But again, and we just
have to band together.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
I think folks still in a sense, they're in that
mind frame of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 8 (24:47):
It's like this is that twenty twenty four at all? Whatsoever?
And if we don't get with it, I don't know. Yeah,
but we're going to continue to fight. That's not going
to stop. We're going to continue to you know, make
way and activate, educate people about their rights and you know,
create spaces or transit to be and be safe as
(25:10):
much as possible can do it all.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
But as much as we can do, we will do.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah. And I think that also raises a question for
people listening to the show, which is that what can
people do to put pressure on this hospital or their
local hospital to do this, and how can people sort
of help the effort to get UPMC to fucking give
kids their health care?
Speaker 8 (25:37):
Absolutely, so what they can do is they can go
visit transridg dot org, make a sign, a petition that
we have a you can donate to the fund that
we have going currently. Locally, what they can do is,
you know, work with their borough or city councils to
(25:58):
create legislation to protect trans kids and use young adults,
and on state wide levels as well. But what we
have to do is we have to put pressure from
the top and from the bottom, you know, on the
government to you know, the state government to make these changes,
because again there are no.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Laws in place at all whatsoever.
Speaker 6 (26:20):
So now we have to take that and we have
to make laws state wide in each state protect not
just trans youth the young adults, but trans individuals and
any minority groups that are being attacked by this Orange
Man's regime.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Yeah, it's a lot of trailing together. And I think
what we've seen here is how amazingly we were all
able to come together as a community and fight and
I think reaching out to your local organizations. I mean,
if every city had a Dina Stanley, they would be
in a much better position to fight this fight. But
(26:57):
you know, working together with the people who know how
to organize and fight, but also not be afraid to
get your feet wet in that active organizing.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
You know.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
We have been working with Action Network to open up
letter writing to our community so that you don't have
to be a UPMC staff to let UPMC know how
you're feeling. We're trying to host more town halls and
community meetings. We hit Instagram. We have an account Club
Providers for Trans Justice, where we're trying to get the
word out so we can rally more together. I think
(27:27):
a big pieces if you're able to contribute financially. Trans
Uniting has their Youth Healing Fund. I believed, you know
that's what it's called, where people can financially support trans
youth who are having trouble accessing their care, and especially
knowing what we know what's going to happen with Medicaid,
this is even more important. So I mean, if you
(27:47):
want to support us in our fight against UPMC.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I think it's be loud. It's not stop.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
I believe that the hospital is just waiting for everybody
to quiet down. But we're only going to get louder
because these taper plans just started for these teens and
young adults, they're still on their medications, and the further
way that gets, the ladder we're going to be because the
risk is really going to increase as the months go on.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
Absolutely, So don't stop be loud all the time, the
accomplices in this fight because no matter what, and know
that you're next, So you can either join in or
you can wait for your turn, and by that time
may be too late and there won't be no one
to be able to stand up the fight.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah. And I think I've been saying on the show
a lot is it's not even just that after they
come for us, they're going to come for you. It's
that in order to come for us, they are going
through you first. Like that's what this whole administration has been.
They are willing to destroy the entire global economy. They're
willing to turn the US into a police state. They
are willing to again just grab people off the street
(28:52):
in order to destroy very very small groups of people.
They are willing to inviserate the lives of every single
person in this country. And the good news is that
means that because we're all targets, we all have the
capacity to resist together and and we're going to.
Speaker 6 (29:08):
It's just that people have to understand that you know
that we are targets and understand what is actually happening
like these are tacked on trans folks. It's not about
trans individuals. It's about autonomy of a women's body. The
tax over immigrants, it's not about the immigrants.
Speaker 8 (29:23):
It's about citizenships for black and brown people that have it,
you know what I mean. So this again, it's just
about having control over folks period. And as soon as
people understand that and know that, you will, you know,
be a slave of this country and in a way
that you've never been because we all are but a
slave of this country like you've never been before.
Speaker 5 (29:46):
You better get with it and.
Speaker 6 (29:47):
Open your eyes up and stand up and fight back,
or you will be in a situation that you would
just be sitting there thinking like I should have could
have what you did.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
So stand that now.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
The fight we're having with UPNC, I mean, of course
it's important. It's this is my employer, this is where
I live. But it is just a small fight in
the broader scheme of the fights we have. And you know,
this brings up a good point of we fight for
trans youth because of what might come next, but it's
already coming.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
We have a lot of people of color who are
already scared to leave the country because they don't know
if they'll be allowed back in with their passport status.
We have, you know, women who are no longer able
to access abortion care or reproductive care in many places
in this country. I mean, it's not if it's going
to happen, it's when, and it already is. So the
more we fight in, the louder we can be for
the people who are hit the most, the more likely
(30:40):
that this fight will drag on and hit them, so
less fights can start in the future.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
But it's happening. We're seeing it everywhere.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah, I think that's an amazing place to end. Thank
you to both so much for coming on and for
fighting this fight.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Absolutely, thank you for having us.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
I think it's really awesome to get the platform to
show what we're doing and hope people, hopefully people will
feel less scared. Right, there's power numbers, there's power and solidarity.
The more people we have fighting along us, the easier
it gets to fight.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
The power is the people, and we are the people.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I am incredibly looking forward to talking to you again.
Will be fucking win this lovebody that great.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Pop champagne over the microphone.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Okay, it could happen here is a production of cool
Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit
our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You can now find sources for It could happen here
listened directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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