May 16, 2023 • 41 mins
Andrew and Mia discuss the work of Black Anarchist revolutionary Lorenzo Kom'boa Ervin and his theories of organizing
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of It Could Happen
Here with me Andrew of the YouTube channel Andrewism. Today,
I'm joined by Mia, and today we're going to be
discussing another leading figure in the black radical tradition. If
you've heard the episodes on Quasiba Lagoon, you know exactly
what's up today. I've got the first part in a
(00:26):
two parter about Lorenzo Combo Irvin and his vision for revolution.
Irvin's life has been one of resistance, resilience and radicalism.
These contributions the anarchist movement, especially his work on black anarchism,
even to this day with his ongoing podcast, continues to
(00:47):
inspire activists around the world, myself included. So Mia, what
are your what has your experience been with Lorenzo Combo
Irvin and his work?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, well, I've read Anarchists in the Black Revolution, which
I really enjoy. I've listened to not all of, but
like a pretty good amount of the Black Autonomy podcasts
that he runs, which is great, and so yeah, I'm
excited to talk about him.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Awesome. Yeah, he really is a fantastic and necessary figure
in this you know, broader movement, especially now for those
who don't know. The Ranco Combo even was one of
the earliest founders of the black anarchist movement, which was
a distinct tradition born out of the history of black
(01:36):
radical politics in nineteen seventies. Like, black anarchism is not
just oh, we are throwing on an adjective onto anarchism.
There's a history behind it, and there's a distinct tradition
that accompanies it. There were anarchists historically who were black
who were not part of this black anarchist tradition, and well,
(02:01):
of course black anarchists who weren't part of those earlier movements.
I think one of the most notable sort of go
to examples is Lucy Parsons was a very important anarchist
figure in the sort of the peak of the movement,
at least in the US in the twentieth century. But
(02:26):
although she was Black, her contributions don't necessarily contribute to
that sort of black anarchist lineage. So let's get into
Irvin right born in nineteen forty seven. By the time
he was twelve, loranzukobert Uvin had joined the NAACP youth
group and participated in sit in protests that helped end
(02:50):
racial segregation in Chattanooga, Tennessee. He was later drafted during
the Vietnam War and served in the army for two years,
where he eventually became an anti war activists, and in
nineteen twenty seven, when he was twenty years old, after
his involvement with the Student Non Violent Coordinating Committee, Lorentzok
Irvin joined the Black Panther Party as a rank and
(03:12):
file member. Two years later, he hijacked a plane and
fled to Cuba. While he was on the run for
attempting to kill a Ku Klux Klan member, but instead
of receiving support as some black radicals had received when
fleeing to Cuba, cute authorities had jailed him, deported him,
(03:32):
deported him to Czechoslovakia, and eventually he escaped from Czechoslovakia
to East Germany before eventually being caught, tortured, and brought
back to the United States and then after being drugged
during his trial, he was handled two life sentences by
an all white jury in a redneck town tough brick
(03:55):
as you can imagine, Irvin had very quickly become disillusioned
with the dictatorship he had experienced in Cuba and the
socialist countries he visited, and during his time in prison,
he reflected on his life and found an alternative method
for black revolution, distinct from the form he found the
Panther Party. Now, even wasn't the first pous Son to
(04:18):
criticize the Black Panther Party's style of organization. One of
the splits between the East Coast and West Coast Panthers
was on what form of organization they would take. I
discussed that a bit in the KUWASI Battagoon episodes. And
then of course there were other figures who came out
to the Black Panther Party with their own criticisms, including
(04:40):
if I remember correctly, Asata Shakur and also donal Cox.
While in prison, Uvin had begun receiving anarchist literature, and
he also signed to pick up what another Black anarchist
who he was briefly imprisoned with at the time, Martin Sostra,
was put in down. Martin so Ostra is what I
(05:01):
believe one of the first major black anarchist figures in
that sort of nineteen sixties nineteen seventies period, and so
him being in prison with Sostra at the same time
sort of really helped even to understand exactly what anarchism
meant and how it would applied to a specifically black
(05:21):
experience in black context. Irvin was also inspired by Peter Kropotkin,
Everyone's favorite Russian former prince, and ultimately Irven adopted the
ideology of anarchist. His case was soon taken up by
the Anarchist Black Cross and the Helper Prisoner Opposed Torture
(05:41):
Organizing Committee, which led to an international campaign the petition
for his release. Evan's writings on Anarchism the Black Revolution,
which was written in prison, gained immense popularity, and so
he was released in nineteen eighty three after serving nearly
fifteen years. In his book, he emphasized that anarchism is
(06:03):
the most democratic, effective and radical way to obtain freedom
for the black community, but the black people must be
free to design their movements without the approval of North
American anarchists. Do you believe that black people and other
people of color would be the backbone of the American
anarchist movement of the future. The first edition of Anarchism
(06:25):
the Black Revolution was published quite a while ago. It's
still the edition that is available on the Anarchist Library
you can check out, but it is I would consider
it to be a sort of a rough early edition.
There are certainly some typos and editorial mistakes and stuff
that were addressed in the most recent edition that was
(06:47):
published and I believe twenty twenty one and edited with
some help from William C. Anderson, who also is another
leading figure in the modern Black can movement, having written
works like Nation or No Map. Irvin took and still
takes a principal stance against capitalism, white supremacy, imperialism, colonial oppression, patriarchy, queerphobia,
(07:15):
and the state, recognizing that government is one of the
worst forms of modern oppression. His emphasis on intersectionality has
played a crucial role in the shift away from class
exclusive analysis in the American anarchist movement, and today he
remains active, as I said, recording a podcast called Black
Autonomy with his wife and fellow former panther Jonina. So
(07:40):
today he drawn from Evan's book Anarchism on the Black
Revolution to delve into his picture of revolution in North
America and beyond. I think one of the strongest strategies
for the development of the Black Revolution would be a
black labor Federation, as If discussers in his book, black
(08:02):
labor has been a critical economic fact in America since
the country's inception, and it was through the toil of
black labor, beginning with slave labor in the Old South
and extending to share cropping, farm labor and migration to
the North for factory jobs, that the foundations of the
American nation were built. However, as is obvious, black workers
(08:22):
have been routinely excluded from that share of the wealth
of the American nation and routinely excluded from the trade
unions that struggled to regain some of that wealth, like,
for example, the American Federation of Labor, the National Colored
Labor Union, the National Colored Farmers Alliance, and the Brotherhood
(08:42):
of Sleeping car Porters, as well as the League of
Black Revolutionary Workers, and other unions and associations of black
workers were then formed to represent these interests were being
left out and not at all brought to the table.
Black workers were very much instrumental in the Congress of
(09:02):
Industrial Organizations, campaign of strikes and sit downs and other
protests to organize unskilled industrial workers, but they didn't get
to enjoy the benefits of their pivotal rule. Most of
the Black population is working class, and black industrial and
clerical workers still holds significant potential power and the struggle
(09:25):
for black liberation. A lot of these workers have already
been organized and to defend their righted work and activate
for their interests, even if unian leadership is conservative, even
if they weren't challenge management, even if they're not even unionized,
we see as well in modern times a lot of
black figures stepping up to organize these unions. The first
(09:47):
union to be organized in Amazon was spearheaded by a
black worker, Chris Smaws, and workers black workers across history
have already been creating the union caucuses and creating independently
of unions where necessary to push for their specific interests, because,
I mean, the unity of black workers and the rest
(10:10):
of the working class is essential to combat and overthrow capitalism.
But there needs to be a recognition within that unity
of distinctly black interests and a distinctly black history, which
is why black caucuses within unions are able to take
up demand to the struggles that unions have turned the
blind eye to, such as discriminatory hiring, firing and promotion practices,
(10:34):
and you know, lack of equal treatment. I think these
caucuses could even go further, as Even also argues to
democratize their unions, to eliminate some of these discriminatory practices
and to really push for the radical fighting spirit that
(10:54):
has been lost in some of these sort of reformist
union structures. The Black caucuses and so the workers more
generally should be stepping up to demand democratic control the union,
to demand equal treatments, demand of firmative action, demand full employment,
demand shorter work weeks, to demand the right to strike,
the demand to social security and an employment compensation, demand
(11:18):
for liverable minimum wages. Of course, all of these accomplishments
or demands already sort of short term benefits that would
still retain a copitless structure, but they're necessarily nonetheless, especially
when unionizations are an all the time low. Historically, one
(11:42):
of the things that Even also advocates for, which I'll
get into more in the future, is this idea of
unions advocating for companies two put aside funds specifically for
programs to rebuild in a city cammunities and provide work
for black workers. And your stalks about worker self management
(12:06):
of industry by factory committees and workers councils and elections
by workers themselves. But the main idea that he's pushing for,
at least in terms of the black working class and
black labor, is, as I mentioned, a black labor federation,
both in a national level and on an international level.
(12:29):
A national workers association would serve as both a revolutionary
union movement for workplace organizing and a mass social movement
for community organizing, combining tactics from both the labor and
the black liberation movements to multiply their numbers and build
their strength and turn the unions into these militant class
(12:51):
struggle instruments. An example that we can see in history
during the late nineteen sixties was the League of Revolutionary
Black Workers, which is organizing black auto workers out of
the out of the Dodge Revolutionary Movement. Sorry to me,
(13:11):
let me rephrase that. One example of that type of
organization could be found in the League of Revolutionary Black Workers,
which organized black auto workers during the late nineteen sixties.
The League had grown out of a major affiliate of
it out of a major affiliate, the Dodge Revolutionary Movement,
and it was a black labor federation that existed as
(13:33):
an organized alternative to the United Auto Workers, which had
been excluding black workers. The League was also a very
major force on the streets, as it was, in addition
to organizing its workplaces organized in college campuses and black
inner city areas. But its potential was stifled, unfortunately, by
(13:54):
political faction fights among leadership. There was a division between
those who wanted to take a more Marxist Leninist approach
to the organization compared to those who want to take
more democratic approach the organization. There was a lack of
a solid enough organized base in the factories, there was
(14:15):
significant company and United Auto Workers, and state repression. Of course,
organized racism, a lack of cooperation among white workers, and
other reasons that eventually led to the League split it
into mutually hostile factions that would die after less than
five years of existence. Classic organized and history story. I
(14:47):
don't think that we should look at these failures and
use them as an opportunity to give up. I think
we look at these failures and we use them as
learning opportunities, use them as opportunities to recognize, Oh, we
can do some then like this, but not exactly like this.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, and make sure that Bob Avankian is never involved
in any point in the process.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Exactly exactly, I mean, we still need these sorts of
labor organizations and associations and unions. We still need black
workers pay aheading these sort of organizations to organize other
black workers in their communities to support the strike sim
workplace organized, it will be necessary for significant changes. And
(15:30):
of course we need the groups to be established to
avoid the pitfalls and ideological scruples of Marxism le and
this up. But you're just the sort of American approach
because in case those of you who don't know, I'm
not living in America, I'm not an American, which is
why even also addresses and advocates for an international Black
(15:52):
Labor Federation to wield the collective power of black workers
globally that have been universally oppressed and exploited around the world.
As a racial group, Black workers have been oppressed as
workers and as people, and this dual form for pressure
(16:16):
is really what emphasizes that need to organize for old
rights and our own liberation. In African and Caribbean countries,
including trant Tobigle, there are labor federations and labor unions,
but a lot of them are reformists. Of a lot of
them are government control and there's a lack of militancy.
There's a lot of collaboration with the government and with
(16:38):
companies they're supposed to be organizing against. So it's necessary
to have an organization with an internationalist scope that is
pushing for solidarity, that is pushing for radical change. And
so I think that's the that's the real strength of
an international Black Labor Federation. You know, that idea of
increased solidarity across several countries, the idea of strengthening our
(17:01):
collective bargaining power and ability to organize back to work
and conditions. Of course, we'd also have the benefit of
shared resources and the benefit of greater visibility to these
issues that we are facing in the workplace and in society.
And then of course there will also be the ability
to exert using that visibility and resources and solidarity to
(17:23):
exert greater political influence. However, you know, an international Black federation,
we still struggle with political barriers, particularly in countries that
are actively hostile to that sort of organizing. Of course,
the power would be will do everything in their power
to keep such a struggle from being able to attain
and maintain any kind of momentum or power. The constraints
(17:48):
of time and energy and resources and engagement, we also
prevent such a federation from gaining crown. But I still
think think of all those issues that we should keep
in mind. If well developed, I think that national, regional,
and international caucuses can do a lot to implement significant changes.
(18:13):
In fact, one strategy that even advocates for is something
that I believe an international Black Labor Federation or any
kind of international labor federation will be necessary to help
to organize, and that would be a general strike. Because
(18:34):
the vast majority the Black community consists of working class
people in the US, because many of them are engaged
in manufacturing and medical service and communications and food production
and retail, a lot of blue collar work that really
makes the country go around, really makes them an essential
(18:56):
component to the capitalist economy and of the American economy.
I think it positions them as really really key players
in any sort of protest campaign that would involve first
racism and class oppression. And I could go even further
(19:17):
into beyond just stepping up and striking for demands in
the workplace, control over the workplace. You could also go
step further accomplish it, and accomplish in even more revolutionary goals.
And I would of course involve using tactics like industrial
sabotage and factory occupations and sit ins and slowdowns and
(19:38):
wildcat strikes and other work stoppages that would help to
reassuit our collective power. Of course, as I'm always really
careful to emphasize when I bring up general strikes, they're
not easy to organize. A friend of mine Alky, he
(19:59):
has a vide you want, his YouTube channel about general
strikes and how they work, and some of the history
is some past general strikes. So that's I think that's
required reading quote quote reading to definitely check out. But yeah,
general strikes are not easy to organize. They're not something
that you could just call for on Reddit or Twitter
or Facebook or whatever. You know. It takes serious community
(20:22):
and workplace mobilization. It takes significant planning, It takes strike
committees and support committees because and even defense committees when
employ employers maybe trying to retaliate against strike co workers
or blacklist or fire workers.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I would also say, like something that I think
people okay, there's not a delegate way to say this like, look,
if you're going to be engaged in like a long term,
serious general strike, you're gonna have to do things like
you're gonna have to start seizing stuff, Like you're going
to have to start committing left in order to make
sure that people can.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Like eat, Yeah exactly, Like you're.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Can have to start appropriating stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, exactly. It's not just standing around in a picket line.
You know, like a general strike is an extra extremely
involved and invested you don't get usually you don't get
two chances to do a general strike, you know, like
(21:30):
you have that chance, and after that they're usually if
you feel you usually introduce legislation or put things in
place to ensure that something like that never happens again.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, or you get like there was a thing that
used to happen back when, you know, back in like
the early nineteen hundred when these happens, a lot was
you would get these general strikes, but you know they
would kind of they would be like like two days long.
And there's this great melotest to quote from nineteen nineteen
(22:03):
twenty four, I think, where he's talking about how he's
talking about the factory occupations that started in Italy in
the like during the two Red Years. And here's this
line that goes general strikes A protests no longer upset anyone,
neither those who take part in them nor those against
whom they are directed. If only the police had the
(22:25):
intelligence to avoid being provocative, they would pass off as
a public as any public holiday. One must seek something else.
We put forward an idea the takeover of.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Factories exactly exactly, like I have to step beyond or
is this legal? It's just legal and look into oh
what can we make possible? You know, yeah, I mean
I don't mean to be flippant, you know, like it's difficult.
It takes so much organization of a lot and coordination
(22:55):
of a large group of people. There's always put the
SEO scabs. You know. It could have significant consequences for
workers who depend on their wages to survive and to
support their families. It can have a lot of ripple effects,
and it could also involve, you know, workers end up
(23:16):
going to jail or just losing their jobs. But still
it's it's a powerful tool that if we can recognize,
if we could start working towards if when people were
calling for strikes back in twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen
and twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen and twenty twenty one and
twenty two. If all those years so we spent calling
(23:39):
for general strikes, actually more effort was being put in
to actually put the foundation in place for general strike
to occur, then twenty twenty three we would be prepared
to support a general strike in a long term way,
in a way that would actually signify you know, revolutionary
(24:01):
change in our lifetimes. I mean, they'll be discertened, dear listener.
They're still potential for such a thing to occur. It
just takes preparation and organization. Speaking of things that take preparation, organization,
and the one of Iven's tactics is a mass tax boycott.
(24:22):
You know, people should refuse to pay any form of
taxes to the government, be it federal, income, estate, or
state taxes while they continue to be exploited. Because, as
he would argue, you know, wealthy and their corporations paying
next to no taxes, while the poor and workers with
the brunt of taxation and do not receive any benefits
in return. You know, all these taxes on income and
(24:44):
goods and services, but communities are still suffering, and that
money ends up going to fund the Pentagon and defense
contractors and consultants who get to you know, loot the
government for their own game. So part of a black
radical movement, the Black revolutions, if an arguseful, is a
(25:05):
mass tax resistance movement to boycott taxes, similar to the
peace movements, war tax resistance, taking people all the taxes
that would have gone into personal property, all the taxes
that have been reaped from personal property and income tax
and stocks and bonds, and funneling that towards community development,
(25:27):
find that towards coming to projects and organizations. As with
any evolution reaction, significant legal consequences would be involved in that.
Of course, you know, I think such a tactic needs
some serious mass support and back end behind it to succeed.
And even then, I don't believe it should be the
backbone of any movement. I think it's more so like
(25:48):
an accessory in the event of a major rupture, a
single tool in a broader arsenal. Like I don't think
the entire movement should be built off of tax avoidance.
Is going to get a bunch of people throw into person,
they ask a lot more to it than that, I
look at the sort of cost of benefit analysis, like, yeah,
it'll get a lot of federal attention, but if it's
(26:11):
not properly implemented, I don't really see any immediate benefits
for the long term goals of the movement. I mean,
I could be wrong, but it's not a tactic that
I would personally fearful unless such a struggle is already
in existence and in its later stages. Another type of
boycott that's even references is, of course the regular conventional,
(26:34):
unconventional sort of boycotts used during the Civil rights movement.
A lot of black consumers with boycott particular movechents public
services refusing to treat with mouchents who would allow for
reach of discrimination and use that loss of revenue to
force them to make concessions. Today, black consumers in the
(26:54):
US spend hundreds of billions a year in the capital's economy.
Of course, not all of those consumers are workers, and
all those workers are able to boycott. But I think
boycott are still a potential to the arsenal again to
(27:16):
wage you know, warfare, economic warfare against the corporate structures.
I mean, it could be expanded from anything. It can
be expanded to cover everything from specific products to entire industries. Right.
Dr Martin Luther King Junior himself recognized the potential of
(27:37):
the national black boycott. Dr Martin Luther King Junior himself
recognized the potential of a national black boycott for America's
major corporations. Shortly after he was assassinated, he established such
an initiative called Operation bread Basket, which aimed, among other things,
(27:58):
to force corporations to poor money into national Black community
development projects for poor communities. I think, you know, podcasts
have a way to put economic pressure, but they, I
also believe a little bit less effective in our modern
(28:22):
globalized world due to the fact that you know, a
lot of these companies are owned by the same like
three corporations. They usually have ways to mitigate economic losses
in one market by targeting other alternative markets. Or even
if they experience a dip in demand in one sector,
(28:45):
they may still enjoy demand in another sector and another
part of the world. And on top of that company is
kind of also use that as an opportunity to sort
of get people off the movement. For example, a boycott
is taking place, they could say, oh, you're trying to boycott. Well,
we just put a sale out fifty sixty percent of
(29:08):
wild stocks last. And then you have people sort of
you know, breaking off of the movement. And and I mean,
of course not everybody will do that, some people are principled.
But that is still a tactic that you see some
companies using when they're starting to experience that's sort of
economic pressure, they try to fragment the movement quote unquote
votes in with your wallet. Even mass coordinated, in my opinion,
(29:31):
is limited in its ability to challenge the courses of
oppression in equality. I would think it brings us any
closer to anarchist I think it only recuns the current world.
So I think it's another tactic that really cannot act alone.
And then we got another tool in Yes, now be
could call it a rent boycott, call it a rent strike.
(29:56):
It's a way to achieve certain legislative changes. Al so
we to achieve certain more radical changes if you get
into sort of occupation and squatting and that kind of thing.
In Harlem and New York City, rent boycotts were so
successful the the creation of rent control legislation, which prevented
(30:17):
evictions unjustified price increases and required reasonable upkeep by property
owners and management companies. There is a track record of
Rench strikes providing some benefits, you know, allowing tenants to
negotiate with landlords and to bring some issues to light.
An I could also bring about, of course, certain policy
(30:37):
changes and push for or highlight further the need for
affordable and accessible housing. But again, French strikes are legally risky.
They can also be difficult to coordinate, especially for those
who are really kind of risk eviction. I mean, nobody
can really risk eviction, right, But that's where the risks
(31:01):
sort of comes in. And then if there's a lack
of support, if the land world has significant resources behind them,
there are also you know, ways that it could go wrong.
I don't want to mislead, like, I want people to
be aware of the reality of how difficult this sort
of organizing effort is. All these organizing efforts are. It's
(31:24):
not a walk in the park. It's not you know,
like acts the end of Act three and some revolution
story movie where the good guys are able to win
with the power of friendship, with that kind of thing.
It's tough work and we have to be aware of
the risks even as we engage in such actions, even
(31:48):
also advocates for you know, squatting and tandem with rend strikes. So,
in addition to withholding rent payments from exploits of landlords
and banks, also movements to engage in urban squat and
to seize how it is, and to seize empty plots
of land, to seize unoccupied and abandoned buildings, and to
redirect payments that would have gone towards rent towards necessary repairs,
(32:12):
to improve living conditions, and to claim our cities for ourselves.
But again, will squating does provided immediate housing solution for
those in need, while it draws attentions the issue of
horsting inequality, while it creates a sense of collective ownership,
and while it can help to improve all these neglected
(32:32):
areas and urban environments, it's also legal cross involved in
effection and the rest A lot of squatting conditions can
be fairly unsafe, will unsanitary, particularly if a property is
not up to a particular standard. And then, of course
(32:53):
squatting is also sort of temporary as a solution. It
doesn't really address the root courses of housing. It is
really a precarious position to keep people in. And it's
another case where without mass defense and support, we've got
a mass movement backing it up, it's going to be
very easy to dislodge any games that might be made
(33:13):
in the short term. Family even also argues for the
establishment of the commune as a staging ground for black
(33:34):
revolutionary struggle. The concept of the community is basically like
a dual power structure, an institution meant to compete with
government power to preserve as a community to government power
in order to assert collective community power foreman and unifying
(33:57):
various organizations, a struggle to con troll of existing communities
and institutions and work at a fight against economic and
political and cultural discrimination, expertiation, and servitude in this capitalist society.
And he goes in to talk about inner city communes
(34:17):
as centers of black counterpower and social of nurtionary culture
to say, as sort of a living example of what
revolution could look like. I think this is a case
where at the time he didn't have the word for it,
but we do now, and that would be prefigurative politics.
The idea of you know, establishing these sort of institutions
(34:40):
and here and now that would be able to prefigure
the world that we want to see in the future.
Another component of these sort of communes is to provide
a count narrative to sort of black capitalism and responsibility
politics gets pushed out does a dominant narrative within Black
(35:03):
communities in the US. The commune and the Black commune specifically,
you can say there's a place for a new society
and a new culture to emerge. The rejects the internalization
of oppression under this system. And so when you want
to get into sort of how the sort of community
(35:23):
be established, even talks about establishing community councils the world
govern and even talks about establishing community councils to allow
for collective governance and be composed of workers from various
(35:44):
industries and neighborhoods and delegates to organize communities on a
block by block basis. He also emphasizes the need to
reject black politicians, bureaucrats, and mayors from sort of co
(36:05):
opting these efforts and ensuring that the community on the
ground actually retains control over the institutions that they establish
and develop and take control over to ensure that the
community's needs and desires are met. One example that he
(36:28):
uses is in the case of schools right where the
community would organize parents, students, teachers, and community like to
cooperatively administer the schools. I think we see a lot
(36:49):
of efforts by right wing parents right now organize and
sort of run things in a lot of public schools.
But that does mean that similar efforts can't be but
take and by radicals to push for the same. Of course,
it wouldn't be as easy because they aim to see
(37:09):
the status school, whereas we aim to change things.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I think it is sort of important to note too
that it's like, it's not like the sort of like
right wing school stuff came out of nowhere. Like part
of the reason this was happening was that like there
had been movements inside the like inside sorry let me
if I say it, there have been movements from teachers
and from like inside the education system trying to sort
(37:34):
of like you know, we do things I teach black history, right,
and you know, like part like these are these are
things that like these are kinds of movements that people
really tend to ignore and really tend to sort of
not think about the significance of. But yeah, I mean
it's it's it's not like these sort of like right
(37:55):
wing versions of this came out of nowhere. They were
reacting to people, you know, doing a sort of more
moderate version of the strategy.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, that's true, that is true, And so now we
have to push even harder to counter their counter efforts
and really assuite that sort of transformation in the education
space and beyond just the education space. What Even talks
(38:25):
about is ensuring that these councils encompass a variety of organizations,
not just blocking neighborhood communities, but also labor union, student groups,
social activist groups, and even specialists you or single issue
campaigns and issues. The idea is, of course, to continuously
(38:47):
promote self rule, to continuously develop people's powers and drives
and consciousness towards liberation, and to continuously offer an alternative
to this pervasive sense that all this is is all
they can ever be its. It's necessary to sort of
(39:10):
incubate this sort of embryo of a revolutionary society, this
micro cause of a new lifestyle, and to highlight the
necessity of struggle against you know, these systems. And when
I speak of consciousness, I'm also speaking of specifically black consciousness.
(39:33):
Speaking of consciousness rais and sessions, to ensure that black history,
black culture is accessible and available and understood by the
black community. To ensure that newly liberates and like social
ideas and values are distributed within the community. To ensure
that con slinin therapy are available, rooted, and of course
(39:58):
a black revolutionary perspective tell people to realize that this
disunity and distrust and violence and oppression that because due
to this legacy end of this system does not have
(40:18):
to continue to be so. But that's it for me
and for Uven for now. You can join us for
part two where we can dive into the day to
day aspects. So there's Viber programs that Uven describes to
build black resilience in the air. And now, if you're
(40:40):
looking for me on the internet, you can find me
on YouTube dot com slash Androism, and you can support
on patreon dot com slash Say Peace.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zone media Com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can find sources for It Could happen here, updated
monthly at coolzonemedia dot com, Slash sources, Thanks for listening.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of It Could Happen
Here with me Andrew of the YouTube channel Andrewism. Today,
I'm joined by Mia, and today we're going to be
discussing another leading figure in the black radical tradition. If
you've heard the episodes on Quasiba Lagoon, you know exactly
what's up today. I've got the first part in a
(00:26):
two parter about Lorenzo Combo Irvin and his vision for revolution.
Irvin's life has been one of resistance, resilience and radicalism.
These contributions the anarchist movement, especially his work on black anarchism,
even to this day with his ongoing podcast, continues to
(00:47):
inspire activists around the world, myself included. So Mia, what
are your what has your experience been with Lorenzo Combo
Irvin and his work?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, well, I've read Anarchists in the Black Revolution, which
I really enjoy. I've listened to not all of, but
like a pretty good amount of the Black Autonomy podcasts
that he runs, which is great, and so yeah, I'm
excited to talk about him.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Awesome. Yeah, he really is a fantastic and necessary figure
in this you know, broader movement, especially now for those
who don't know. The Ranco Combo even was one of
the earliest founders of the black anarchist movement, which was
a distinct tradition born out of the history of black
(01:36):
radical politics in nineteen seventies. Like, black anarchism is not
just oh, we are throwing on an adjective onto anarchism.
There's a history behind it, and there's a distinct tradition
that accompanies it. There were anarchists historically who were black
who were not part of this black anarchist tradition, and well,
(02:01):
of course black anarchists who weren't part of those earlier movements.
I think one of the most notable sort of go
to examples is Lucy Parsons was a very important anarchist
figure in the sort of the peak of the movement,
at least in the US in the twentieth century. But
(02:26):
although she was Black, her contributions don't necessarily contribute to
that sort of black anarchist lineage. So let's get into
Irvin right born in nineteen forty seven. By the time
he was twelve, loranzukobert Uvin had joined the NAACP youth
group and participated in sit in protests that helped end
(02:50):
racial segregation in Chattanooga, Tennessee. He was later drafted during
the Vietnam War and served in the army for two years,
where he eventually became an anti war activists, and in
nineteen twenty seven, when he was twenty years old, after
his involvement with the Student Non Violent Coordinating Committee, Lorentzok
Irvin joined the Black Panther Party as a rank and
(03:12):
file member. Two years later, he hijacked a plane and
fled to Cuba. While he was on the run for
attempting to kill a Ku Klux Klan member, but instead
of receiving support as some black radicals had received when
fleeing to Cuba, cute authorities had jailed him, deported him,
(03:32):
deported him to Czechoslovakia, and eventually he escaped from Czechoslovakia
to East Germany before eventually being caught, tortured, and brought
back to the United States and then after being drugged
during his trial, he was handled two life sentences by
an all white jury in a redneck town tough brick
(03:55):
as you can imagine, Irvin had very quickly become disillusioned
with the dictatorship he had experienced in Cuba and the
socialist countries he visited, and during his time in prison,
he reflected on his life and found an alternative method
for black revolution, distinct from the form he found the
Panther Party. Now, even wasn't the first pous Son to
(04:18):
criticize the Black Panther Party's style of organization. One of
the splits between the East Coast and West Coast Panthers
was on what form of organization they would take. I
discussed that a bit in the KUWASI Battagoon episodes. And
then of course there were other figures who came out
to the Black Panther Party with their own criticisms, including
(04:40):
if I remember correctly, Asata Shakur and also donal Cox.
While in prison, Uvin had begun receiving anarchist literature, and
he also signed to pick up what another Black anarchist
who he was briefly imprisoned with at the time, Martin Sostra,
was put in down. Martin so Ostra is what I
(05:01):
believe one of the first major black anarchist figures in
that sort of nineteen sixties nineteen seventies period, and so
him being in prison with Sostra at the same time
sort of really helped even to understand exactly what anarchism
meant and how it would applied to a specifically black
(05:21):
experience in black context. Irvin was also inspired by Peter Kropotkin,
Everyone's favorite Russian former prince, and ultimately Irven adopted the
ideology of anarchist. His case was soon taken up by
the Anarchist Black Cross and the Helper Prisoner Opposed Torture
(05:41):
Organizing Committee, which led to an international campaign the petition
for his release. Evan's writings on Anarchism the Black Revolution,
which was written in prison, gained immense popularity, and so
he was released in nineteen eighty three after serving nearly
fifteen years. In his book, he emphasized that anarchism is
(06:03):
the most democratic, effective and radical way to obtain freedom
for the black community, but the black people must be
free to design their movements without the approval of North
American anarchists. Do you believe that black people and other
people of color would be the backbone of the American
anarchist movement of the future. The first edition of Anarchism
(06:25):
the Black Revolution was published quite a while ago. It's
still the edition that is available on the Anarchist Library
you can check out, but it is I would consider
it to be a sort of a rough early edition.
There are certainly some typos and editorial mistakes and stuff
that were addressed in the most recent edition that was
(06:47):
published and I believe twenty twenty one and edited with
some help from William C. Anderson, who also is another
leading figure in the modern Black can movement, having written
works like Nation or No Map. Irvin took and still
takes a principal stance against capitalism, white supremacy, imperialism, colonial oppression, patriarchy, queerphobia,
(07:15):
and the state, recognizing that government is one of the
worst forms of modern oppression. His emphasis on intersectionality has
played a crucial role in the shift away from class
exclusive analysis in the American anarchist movement, and today he
remains active, as I said, recording a podcast called Black
Autonomy with his wife and fellow former panther Jonina. So
(07:40):
today he drawn from Evan's book Anarchism on the Black
Revolution to delve into his picture of revolution in North
America and beyond. I think one of the strongest strategies
for the development of the Black Revolution would be a
black labor Federation, as If discussers in his book, black
(08:02):
labor has been a critical economic fact in America since
the country's inception, and it was through the toil of
black labor, beginning with slave labor in the Old South
and extending to share cropping, farm labor and migration to
the North for factory jobs, that the foundations of the
American nation were built. However, as is obvious, black workers
(08:22):
have been routinely excluded from that share of the wealth
of the American nation and routinely excluded from the trade
unions that struggled to regain some of that wealth, like,
for example, the American Federation of Labor, the National Colored
Labor Union, the National Colored Farmers Alliance, and the Brotherhood
(08:42):
of Sleeping car Porters, as well as the League of
Black Revolutionary Workers, and other unions and associations of black
workers were then formed to represent these interests were being
left out and not at all brought to the table.
Black workers were very much instrumental in the Congress of
(09:02):
Industrial Organizations, campaign of strikes and sit downs and other
protests to organize unskilled industrial workers, but they didn't get
to enjoy the benefits of their pivotal rule. Most of
the Black population is working class, and black industrial and
clerical workers still holds significant potential power and the struggle
(09:25):
for black liberation. A lot of these workers have already
been organized and to defend their righted work and activate
for their interests, even if unian leadership is conservative, even
if they weren't challenge management, even if they're not even unionized,
we see as well in modern times a lot of
black figures stepping up to organize these unions. The first
(09:47):
union to be organized in Amazon was spearheaded by a
black worker, Chris Smaws, and workers black workers across history
have already been creating the union caucuses and creating independently
of unions where necessary to push for their specific interests, because,
I mean, the unity of black workers and the rest
(10:10):
of the working class is essential to combat and overthrow capitalism.
But there needs to be a recognition within that unity
of distinctly black interests and a distinctly black history, which
is why black caucuses within unions are able to take
up demand to the struggles that unions have turned the
blind eye to, such as discriminatory hiring, firing and promotion practices,
(10:34):
and you know, lack of equal treatment. I think these
caucuses could even go further, as Even also argues to
democratize their unions, to eliminate some of these discriminatory practices
and to really push for the radical fighting spirit that
(10:54):
has been lost in some of these sort of reformist
union structures. The Black caucuses and so the workers more
generally should be stepping up to demand democratic control the union,
to demand equal treatments, demand of firmative action, demand full employment,
demand shorter work weeks, to demand the right to strike,
the demand to social security and an employment compensation, demand
(11:18):
for liverable minimum wages. Of course, all of these accomplishments
or demands already sort of short term benefits that would
still retain a copitless structure, but they're necessarily nonetheless, especially
when unionizations are an all the time low. Historically, one
(11:42):
of the things that Even also advocates for, which I'll
get into more in the future, is this idea of
unions advocating for companies two put aside funds specifically for
programs to rebuild in a city cammunities and provide work
for black workers. And your stalks about worker self management
(12:06):
of industry by factory committees and workers councils and elections
by workers themselves. But the main idea that he's pushing for,
at least in terms of the black working class and
black labor, is, as I mentioned, a black labor federation,
both in a national level and on an international level.
(12:29):
A national workers association would serve as both a revolutionary
union movement for workplace organizing and a mass social movement
for community organizing, combining tactics from both the labor and
the black liberation movements to multiply their numbers and build
their strength and turn the unions into these militant class
(12:51):
struggle instruments. An example that we can see in history
during the late nineteen sixties was the League of Revolutionary
Black Workers, which is organizing black auto workers out of
the out of the Dodge Revolutionary Movement. Sorry to me,
(13:11):
let me rephrase that. One example of that type of
organization could be found in the League of Revolutionary Black Workers,
which organized black auto workers during the late nineteen sixties.
The League had grown out of a major affiliate of
it out of a major affiliate, the Dodge Revolutionary Movement,
and it was a black labor federation that existed as
(13:33):
an organized alternative to the United Auto Workers, which had
been excluding black workers. The League was also a very
major force on the streets, as it was, in addition
to organizing its workplaces organized in college campuses and black
inner city areas. But its potential was stifled, unfortunately, by
(13:54):
political faction fights among leadership. There was a division between
those who wanted to take a more Marxist Leninist approach
to the organization compared to those who want to take
more democratic approach the organization. There was a lack of
a solid enough organized base in the factories, there was
(14:15):
significant company and United Auto Workers, and state repression. Of course,
organized racism, a lack of cooperation among white workers, and
other reasons that eventually led to the League split it
into mutually hostile factions that would die after less than
five years of existence. Classic organized and history story. I
(14:47):
don't think that we should look at these failures and
use them as an opportunity to give up. I think
we look at these failures and we use them as
learning opportunities, use them as opportunities to recognize, Oh, we
can do some then like this, but not exactly like this.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, and make sure that Bob Avankian is never involved
in any point in the process.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Exactly exactly, I mean, we still need these sorts of
labor organizations and associations and unions. We still need black
workers pay aheading these sort of organizations to organize other
black workers in their communities to support the strike sim
workplace organized, it will be necessary for significant changes. And
(15:30):
of course we need the groups to be established to
avoid the pitfalls and ideological scruples of Marxism le and
this up. But you're just the sort of American approach
because in case those of you who don't know, I'm
not living in America, I'm not an American, which is
why even also addresses and advocates for an international Black
(15:52):
Labor Federation to wield the collective power of black workers
globally that have been universally oppressed and exploited around the world.
As a racial group, Black workers have been oppressed as
workers and as people, and this dual form for pressure
(16:16):
is really what emphasizes that need to organize for old
rights and our own liberation. In African and Caribbean countries,
including trant Tobigle, there are labor federations and labor unions,
but a lot of them are reformists. Of a lot of
them are government control and there's a lack of militancy.
There's a lot of collaboration with the government and with
(16:38):
companies they're supposed to be organizing against. So it's necessary
to have an organization with an internationalist scope that is
pushing for solidarity, that is pushing for radical change. And
so I think that's the that's the real strength of
an international Black Labor Federation. You know, that idea of
increased solidarity across several countries, the idea of strengthening our
(17:01):
collective bargaining power and ability to organize back to work
and conditions. Of course, we'd also have the benefit of
shared resources and the benefit of greater visibility to these
issues that we are facing in the workplace and in society.
And then of course there will also be the ability
to exert using that visibility and resources and solidarity to
(17:23):
exert greater political influence. However, you know, an international Black federation,
we still struggle with political barriers, particularly in countries that
are actively hostile to that sort of organizing. Of course,
the power would be will do everything in their power
to keep such a struggle from being able to attain
and maintain any kind of momentum or power. The constraints
(17:48):
of time and energy and resources and engagement, we also
prevent such a federation from gaining crown. But I still
think think of all those issues that we should keep
in mind. If well developed, I think that national, regional,
and international caucuses can do a lot to implement significant changes.
(18:13):
In fact, one strategy that even advocates for is something
that I believe an international Black Labor Federation or any
kind of international labor federation will be necessary to help
to organize, and that would be a general strike. Because
(18:34):
the vast majority the Black community consists of working class
people in the US, because many of them are engaged
in manufacturing and medical service and communications and food production
and retail, a lot of blue collar work that really
makes the country go around, really makes them an essential
(18:56):
component to the capitalist economy and of the American economy.
I think it positions them as really really key players
in any sort of protest campaign that would involve first
racism and class oppression. And I could go even further
(19:17):
into beyond just stepping up and striking for demands in
the workplace, control over the workplace. You could also go
step further accomplish it, and accomplish in even more revolutionary goals.
And I would of course involve using tactics like industrial
sabotage and factory occupations and sit ins and slowdowns and
(19:38):
wildcat strikes and other work stoppages that would help to
reassuit our collective power. Of course, as I'm always really
careful to emphasize when I bring up general strikes, they're
not easy to organize. A friend of mine Alky, he
(19:59):
has a vide you want, his YouTube channel about general
strikes and how they work, and some of the history
is some past general strikes. So that's I think that's
required reading quote quote reading to definitely check out. But yeah,
general strikes are not easy to organize. They're not something
that you could just call for on Reddit or Twitter
or Facebook or whatever. You know. It takes serious community
(20:22):
and workplace mobilization. It takes significant planning, It takes strike
committees and support committees because and even defense committees when
employ employers maybe trying to retaliate against strike co workers
or blacklist or fire workers.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I would also say, like something that I think
people okay, there's not a delegate way to say this like, look,
if you're going to be engaged in like a long term,
serious general strike, you're gonna have to do things like
you're gonna have to start seizing stuff, Like you're going
to have to start committing left in order to make
sure that people can.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Like eat, Yeah exactly, Like you're.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Can have to start appropriating stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, exactly. It's not just standing around in a picket line.
You know, like a general strike is an extra extremely
involved and invested you don't get usually you don't get
two chances to do a general strike, you know, like
(21:30):
you have that chance, and after that they're usually if
you feel you usually introduce legislation or put things in
place to ensure that something like that never happens again.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, or you get like there was a thing that
used to happen back when, you know, back in like
the early nineteen hundred when these happens, a lot was
you would get these general strikes, but you know they
would kind of they would be like like two days long.
And there's this great melotest to quote from nineteen nineteen
(22:03):
twenty four, I think, where he's talking about how he's
talking about the factory occupations that started in Italy in
the like during the two Red Years. And here's this
line that goes general strikes A protests no longer upset anyone,
neither those who take part in them nor those against
whom they are directed. If only the police had the
(22:25):
intelligence to avoid being provocative, they would pass off as
a public as any public holiday. One must seek something else.
We put forward an idea the takeover of.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Factories exactly exactly, like I have to step beyond or
is this legal? It's just legal and look into oh
what can we make possible? You know, yeah, I mean
I don't mean to be flippant, you know, like it's difficult.
It takes so much organization of a lot and coordination
(22:55):
of a large group of people. There's always put the
SEO scabs. You know. It could have significant consequences for
workers who depend on their wages to survive and to
support their families. It can have a lot of ripple effects,
and it could also involve, you know, workers end up
(23:16):
going to jail or just losing their jobs. But still
it's it's a powerful tool that if we can recognize,
if we could start working towards if when people were
calling for strikes back in twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen
and twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen and twenty twenty one and
twenty two. If all those years so we spent calling
(23:39):
for general strikes, actually more effort was being put in
to actually put the foundation in place for general strike
to occur, then twenty twenty three we would be prepared
to support a general strike in a long term way,
in a way that would actually signify you know, revolutionary
(24:01):
change in our lifetimes. I mean, they'll be discertened, dear listener.
They're still potential for such a thing to occur. It
just takes preparation and organization. Speaking of things that take preparation, organization,
and the one of Iven's tactics is a mass tax boycott.
(24:22):
You know, people should refuse to pay any form of
taxes to the government, be it federal, income, estate, or
state taxes while they continue to be exploited. Because, as
he would argue, you know, wealthy and their corporations paying
next to no taxes, while the poor and workers with
the brunt of taxation and do not receive any benefits
in return. You know, all these taxes on income and
(24:44):
goods and services, but communities are still suffering, and that
money ends up going to fund the Pentagon and defense
contractors and consultants who get to you know, loot the
government for their own game. So part of a black
radical movement, the Black revolutions, if an arguseful, is a
(25:05):
mass tax resistance movement to boycott taxes, similar to the
peace movements, war tax resistance, taking people all the taxes
that would have gone into personal property, all the taxes
that have been reaped from personal property and income tax
and stocks and bonds, and funneling that towards community development,
(25:27):
find that towards coming to projects and organizations. As with
any evolution reaction, significant legal consequences would be involved in that.
Of course, you know, I think such a tactic needs
some serious mass support and back end behind it to succeed.
And even then, I don't believe it should be the
backbone of any movement. I think it's more so like
(25:48):
an accessory in the event of a major rupture, a
single tool in a broader arsenal. Like I don't think
the entire movement should be built off of tax avoidance.
Is going to get a bunch of people throw into person,
they ask a lot more to it than that, I
look at the sort of cost of benefit analysis, like, yeah,
it'll get a lot of federal attention, but if it's
(26:11):
not properly implemented, I don't really see any immediate benefits
for the long term goals of the movement. I mean,
I could be wrong, but it's not a tactic that
I would personally fearful unless such a struggle is already
in existence and in its later stages. Another type of
boycott that's even references is, of course the regular conventional,
(26:34):
unconventional sort of boycotts used during the Civil rights movement.
A lot of black consumers with boycott particular movechents public
services refusing to treat with mouchents who would allow for
reach of discrimination and use that loss of revenue to
force them to make concessions. Today, black consumers in the
(26:54):
US spend hundreds of billions a year in the capital's economy.
Of course, not all of those consumers are workers, and
all those workers are able to boycott. But I think
boycott are still a potential to the arsenal again to
(27:16):
wage you know, warfare, economic warfare against the corporate structures.
I mean, it could be expanded from anything. It can
be expanded to cover everything from specific products to entire industries. Right.
Dr Martin Luther King Junior himself recognized the potential of
(27:37):
the national black boycott. Dr Martin Luther King Junior himself
recognized the potential of a national black boycott for America's
major corporations. Shortly after he was assassinated, he established such
an initiative called Operation bread Basket, which aimed, among other things,
(27:58):
to force corporations to poor money into national Black community
development projects for poor communities. I think, you know, podcasts
have a way to put economic pressure, but they, I
also believe a little bit less effective in our modern
(28:22):
globalized world due to the fact that you know, a
lot of these companies are owned by the same like
three corporations. They usually have ways to mitigate economic losses
in one market by targeting other alternative markets. Or even
if they experience a dip in demand in one sector,
(28:45):
they may still enjoy demand in another sector and another
part of the world. And on top of that company is
kind of also use that as an opportunity to sort
of get people off the movement. For example, a boycott
is taking place, they could say, oh, you're trying to boycott. Well,
we just put a sale out fifty sixty percent of
(29:08):
wild stocks last. And then you have people sort of
you know, breaking off of the movement. And and I mean,
of course not everybody will do that, some people are principled.
But that is still a tactic that you see some
companies using when they're starting to experience that's sort of
economic pressure, they try to fragment the movement quote unquote
votes in with your wallet. Even mass coordinated, in my opinion,
(29:31):
is limited in its ability to challenge the courses of
oppression in equality. I would think it brings us any
closer to anarchist I think it only recuns the current world.
So I think it's another tactic that really cannot act alone.
And then we got another tool in Yes, now be
could call it a rent boycott, call it a rent strike.
(29:56):
It's a way to achieve certain legislative changes. Al so
we to achieve certain more radical changes if you get
into sort of occupation and squatting and that kind of thing.
In Harlem and New York City, rent boycotts were so
successful the the creation of rent control legislation, which prevented
(30:17):
evictions unjustified price increases and required reasonable upkeep by property
owners and management companies. There is a track record of
Rench strikes providing some benefits, you know, allowing tenants to
negotiate with landlords and to bring some issues to light.
An I could also bring about, of course, certain policy
(30:37):
changes and push for or highlight further the need for
affordable and accessible housing. But again, French strikes are legally risky.
They can also be difficult to coordinate, especially for those
who are really kind of risk eviction. I mean, nobody
can really risk eviction, right, But that's where the risks
(31:01):
sort of comes in. And then if there's a lack
of support, if the land world has significant resources behind them,
there are also you know, ways that it could go wrong.
I don't want to mislead, like, I want people to
be aware of the reality of how difficult this sort
of organizing effort is. All these organizing efforts are. It's
(31:24):
not a walk in the park. It's not you know,
like acts the end of Act three and some revolution
story movie where the good guys are able to win
with the power of friendship, with that kind of thing.
It's tough work and we have to be aware of
the risks even as we engage in such actions, even
(31:48):
also advocates for you know, squatting and tandem with rend strikes. So,
in addition to withholding rent payments from exploits of landlords
and banks, also movements to engage in urban squat and
to seize how it is, and to seize empty plots
of land, to seize unoccupied and abandoned buildings, and to
redirect payments that would have gone towards rent towards necessary repairs,
(32:12):
to improve living conditions, and to claim our cities for ourselves.
But again, will squating does provided immediate housing solution for
those in need, while it draws attentions the issue of
horsting inequality, while it creates a sense of collective ownership,
and while it can help to improve all these neglected
(32:32):
areas and urban environments, it's also legal cross involved in
effection and the rest A lot of squatting conditions can
be fairly unsafe, will unsanitary, particularly if a property is
not up to a particular standard. And then, of course
(32:53):
squatting is also sort of temporary as a solution. It
doesn't really address the root courses of housing. It is
really a precarious position to keep people in. And it's
another case where without mass defense and support, we've got
a mass movement backing it up, it's going to be
very easy to dislodge any games that might be made
(33:13):
in the short term. Family even also argues for the
establishment of the commune as a staging ground for black
(33:34):
revolutionary struggle. The concept of the community is basically like
a dual power structure, an institution meant to compete with
government power to preserve as a community to government power
in order to assert collective community power foreman and unifying
(33:57):
various organizations, a struggle to con troll of existing communities
and institutions and work at a fight against economic and
political and cultural discrimination, expertiation, and servitude in this capitalist society.
And he goes in to talk about inner city communes
(34:17):
as centers of black counterpower and social of nurtionary culture
to say, as sort of a living example of what
revolution could look like. I think this is a case
where at the time he didn't have the word for it,
but we do now, and that would be prefigurative politics.
The idea of you know, establishing these sort of institutions
(34:40):
and here and now that would be able to prefigure
the world that we want to see in the future.
Another component of these sort of communes is to provide
a count narrative to sort of black capitalism and responsibility
politics gets pushed out does a dominant narrative within Black
(35:03):
communities in the US. The commune and the Black commune specifically,
you can say there's a place for a new society
and a new culture to emerge. The rejects the internalization
of oppression under this system. And so when you want
to get into sort of how the sort of community
(35:23):
be established, even talks about establishing community councils the world
govern and even talks about establishing community councils to allow
for collective governance and be composed of workers from various
(35:44):
industries and neighborhoods and delegates to organize communities on a
block by block basis. He also emphasizes the need to
reject black politicians, bureaucrats, and mayors from sort of co
(36:05):
opting these efforts and ensuring that the community on the
ground actually retains control over the institutions that they establish
and develop and take control over to ensure that the
community's needs and desires are met. One example that he
(36:28):
uses is in the case of schools right where the
community would organize parents, students, teachers, and community like to
cooperatively administer the schools. I think we see a lot
(36:49):
of efforts by right wing parents right now organize and
sort of run things in a lot of public schools.
But that does mean that similar efforts can't be but
take and by radicals to push for the same. Of course,
it wouldn't be as easy because they aim to see
(37:09):
the status school, whereas we aim to change things.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I think it is sort of important to note too
that it's like, it's not like the sort of like
right wing school stuff came out of nowhere. Like part
of the reason this was happening was that like there
had been movements inside the like inside sorry let me
if I say it, there have been movements from teachers
and from like inside the education system trying to sort
(37:34):
of like you know, we do things I teach black history, right,
and you know, like part like these are these are
things that like these are kinds of movements that people
really tend to ignore and really tend to sort of
not think about the significance of. But yeah, I mean
it's it's it's not like these sort of like right
(37:55):
wing versions of this came out of nowhere. They were
reacting to people, you know, doing a sort of more
moderate version of the strategy.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, that's true, that is true, And so now we
have to push even harder to counter their counter efforts
and really assuite that sort of transformation in the education
space and beyond just the education space. What Even talks
(38:25):
about is ensuring that these councils encompass a variety of organizations,
not just blocking neighborhood communities, but also labor union, student groups,
social activist groups, and even specialists you or single issue
campaigns and issues. The idea is, of course, to continuously
(38:47):
promote self rule, to continuously develop people's powers and drives
and consciousness towards liberation, and to continuously offer an alternative
to this pervasive sense that all this is is all
they can ever be its. It's necessary to sort of
(39:10):
incubate this sort of embryo of a revolutionary society, this
micro cause of a new lifestyle, and to highlight the
necessity of struggle against you know, these systems. And when
I speak of consciousness, I'm also speaking of specifically black consciousness.
(39:33):
Speaking of consciousness rais and sessions, to ensure that black history,
black culture is accessible and available and understood by the
black community. To ensure that newly liberates and like social
ideas and values are distributed within the community. To ensure
that con slinin therapy are available, rooted, and of course
(39:58):
a black revolutionary perspective tell people to realize that this
disunity and distrust and violence and oppression that because due
to this legacy end of this system does not have
(40:18):
to continue to be so. But that's it for me
and for Uven for now. You can join us for
part two where we can dive into the day to
day aspects. So there's Viber programs that Uven describes to
build black resilience in the air. And now, if you're
(40:40):
looking for me on the internet, you can find me
on YouTube dot com slash Androism, and you can support
on patreon dot com slash Say Peace.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool zone media Com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can find sources for It Could happen here, updated
monthly at coolzonemedia dot com, Slash sources, Thanks for listening.
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Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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