July 16, 2025 • 52 mins
James talks to Gordyaen Benyamin Jermayi about the situation of minority groups in Iran, the issues with the monarchist opposition, and how the Iranian regime has used US and Israeli bombing as an excuse for more violence against its own people.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All media. Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's me James today and I'm joined by gorjin Jedmai
from HENGL, the human rights organization. Also a journalist who's
worked for the Kurdish Peace Institute who we've had on
the show before, who I've also worked with, and the
founder of the Kurtis Dan People's page on Instagram. Welcome
to the show, Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm so glad
to be here today with you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, of course, and what we're going to talk about
today is Rodia Lat or Eastern Kurdistan and how this
figures into I guess what's happening currently in Iran.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
What has been happening in Iran, And like.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think it's really important to give a little more
explanation and background on particularly the different ethnic groups in
Iran than people generally get when they can consume legacy
media here.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Yeah, so if I want to talk about this, like,
we need to talk about the history of at least
one hundred and twenty one hundred fifty years, so it's
really a lot. But today's structure of what we know
as Iran is made up of several different ethnic groups
from Persians, Turks, I mean Ozerbaijani Turks, Turkmands, Heerds, Baluchi's, Ahwazi,
(01:28):
Arabs and so many others. But I would say the
dominant population, the dominant ethnic group, and the dominant aulture
and language is definitely Persians. Yeah. And if I want
to be more clear, this dominant ethnic group has been
exploding and colonizing and destroying all the lands and the
(01:54):
communities and societies from non Persian regions including Kurdistan, Baluchistan, Azerbaijan,
Ahawas and many other regions in this biographical region paul Iran.
And this mainly started during the former monarchy Pahlavis, and
(02:16):
it was intensified after the nineteen seventy nine Islamic Revolution
led by Ayatu la Romeni, and as usual, the Kurdish
people were the first to stand against this newly established regime.
In nineteen seventy nine, a few months after the so
(02:36):
called revolution, the Kurds were demanding their rights, specifically the
right to self determination and also federalism, which was responded
by a heavy hit by heavy attacks and under the
jihad order of Ayatu la Romeni, which led to the
massacre of tens of thousands of civilians and destructions of
(02:58):
several hundred villages and mass executions of Kurdish people across
the what we know as Eastern Kurdistan or Roshalat. And
following that the oppression continued, and also it was done
against other ethnic groups, specifically Baluchi's and also the Awazi
(03:19):
Arabs and also the Azerbaijani Turks, but in Kurdistan and
Baluchistan it has always been more intense and more brutal.
And then in late nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties
they killed two of the Kurdish leaders, doctor Abdur Rahman
Kasumlu and doctor shut Off Candy in Europe during some
(03:42):
negotiations and thus ended up in kurt being in a
worse situation. And then until around early two thousands, I
think around two thousand and four or three, the PKK
built or established its wing in Rochalat known as the
Free Kurdistan Party or Pajak sorry Free Kurdistan Life Party
(04:07):
in Rochalot. And then but unfortunately this party was not
really as strong as the KDPI or Komala that were
already in the fight with the with the Iranian states.
Since nineteen forty six and so on. This oppression has
been just intensifying by mass execution of Kurdish people, the
(04:29):
mass execution of the political prisoners and activists, and imprisonment
of the different people in the Kurdish society from language
teachers to environmental activists to children, women, anyone, and this
whole impression that I've been mentioning about, like that that's
(04:51):
happening in East Kurdistan. It has also resulted in a
humanitarian phenomenon called kulba. Pullbars are a group of people
that are extremely underprivileged. They have no access to anything,
so they are somehow forced to go into some sort
of work that they have to carry goods between the
(05:14):
borders of East Kurdistan and South Kurdistan or North Kurdistan
specifically between Iraq, Iran and Turkey. And every year we
have numbers in our organizations you can check. We have
a specific statistics section for these col wars. Every year
hundreds of them get killed. Just for example, in since
the beginning of twenty twenty five, twenty two of them
(05:37):
have been killed and injured. And among these people there
are children, women, old people. So this is also another
form of oppression that this regime has been using. Again
start people, because this is actually one of the biggest
forms of oppression, if I want to talk about it.
There are over one hundred and fifty thousand coal bars
in East Kurdistan that are somehow into this type of
(06:01):
work because they have no other means of income, and
the government, the Ringing government actually like limitits all the
if I want to call it economic developments in East Kurdistan.
This has been going on for decades. And then we
come to twenty nineteen again there was another so I
(06:22):
want to call it uprising or master tests across Iran
when the regime killed over one five hundred people. I
mean before that, there were also tests almost every year,
but that was like one of the biggest one. It
was in November twenty nineteen, and they cut down the
internet for twelve days. I remember I was at the
university at that time. And then they killed one thy
(06:46):
five hundred people, specifically so many people in Kurdistan. They
even throw that kills people into like lakes and rivers,
and then after like months and days people found the
bodies like in the nature jeeze. And then we come
to twenty twenty two in September when they the morality
(07:06):
police killed Gina Amini, the Kurdish woman who was apparently
not wearing a proper hijab or the Islamic cloth or
whatever you want to call it. She was killed by
the Iranian morality police in Tehran, which led to the
as we know it. I don't know if you can
(07:26):
call it a revolution or uprising or just mass tests
called Jhinjiana Zadi or women life Freedom movement. And this
also again because it was inspired by Kurtz the first
victim was occurred again. Obviously it started in Kurdistan and
it spread so fast. Just in a few days, the
(07:49):
entire Kurdish cities were testing, and then it was followed
by other Iranian cities like Tehran. She was but it
was not as intense as in Kurdistan. I think it was.
Three days after her death, the Kurdish parties Katipi and
Komala and some others that are not very well known
(08:09):
like pak and also Pajak or the Free Life Kurdistan Party,
they announced a general strike across Kurdistan and they called
on people to close down everything and go on a
full lockdown to protest the killing of Gina Amini, which
was responded by I think over one hundred missiles or
(08:32):
something from the IRGC and the Iranian regime and it
killed I think eighteen if I'm not wrong, but it
killed several people in the camps belonging to these parties
in today's Iraqi Kurdistan where as we call it South Kurdistan.
There were also like family members of the Kurdish politicians
(08:54):
and Kurdish Pishmarga that were in those refugee camps that
are also supported by the UN. They were killed there
and then the protests just got intensified. And I was
also there. We were reporting every day about all the
things that were happening. Also, the Baluchi people joined the protests.
(09:14):
And at the same time of those days, a fifteen
years old Baluchi girl was raped and killed by an
IRGC commander or member in Baluchistan, and people also protested that.
And there was a Friday which is known as the
Bloody Friday of Zahidan. People in Baluchistan. They went to
a big mosque in the city of Zahidan and they
(09:37):
were doing their Friday prayers as Mauslims, and then they
started protesting. And this was responded by the Iranian regime
forces and over one hundred people were massacred on that day,
which also led to mass execution of more political and
just random prisoners in Baluchistan. The protests just went on
(10:02):
and there was a really heavy repression so far, I
think over maybe between five hundred to six hundred people
were killed. These are like the official ones, and also
several other of these protesters, specifically from Kurtiston were executed.
Some of them were executed in public to spread more
(10:24):
fear among people, but people were not given up. And
then it continued until twenty twenty three. I think it
was around maybe in March, I'm not really remembering the
exact date, but it was also in twenty twenty three
that they started attacking schools, like girls' schools, with some
sort of gases that nobody actually knows that what type
(10:46):
of chemical gases they were using, and unfortunately we have them,
like we've reported on. Then some school children, like some kids,
they were killed by these gases, and they were specifically
targeting a girls school because they are like separate, they
don't they're not together in the Iranian system.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Integrate.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yeah, And then this went on and people were still protesting,
but unfortunately it somehow stopped. And if I wanted to
analyze that and related to like to talk about the reasons.
One of the main reasons I think also many other
political activists and analysts also agree on that that the opposition,
(11:28):
but as we know as the Iranian opposition was not
truly united. Yeah, there was a huge effort specifically from
the Kurdish parties like Comala and Abdullah Motadi. They tried
to create some sort of collaboration with the so called
Iranian oppositions, specifically the monarchists like the Pahlavis and some
(11:53):
other groups. But unfortunately these groups, I mean it was
in the middle of an uprising, like a movement that
hasn't been happening since maybe forty years. Instead of working
together for a common goal like the Iranian opposition groups
specifically the Parlavis and also the other ones like if
(12:15):
I want to say, like the Massy and like all
the people that work with her, instead of working towards
a common goal, they started discriminating against minorities. They started
ignoring and denying and also censoring the minorities, the same
minorities that were the most active against the regime that
(12:37):
had the biggest number of sacrifices in the protests and
also in prisons. They just started spreading their own typical
national I mean, I would even call them ultra nationalistic sentiments.
And for example, if I want to give one of
the biggest things that we always talk about, these people
(12:59):
who are apparently against the regime, they have some red lines,
and their main red line has always been the so
called Iranian territorial integrity. So like these type of sentiments
and discussions, it's somehow created like a lot of mistrust
between the Kurdish groups, the Baluchi groups. Also like with
(13:23):
Hawazi Arabs and Azerbaijani Turks and all these groups, they
couldn't trust each other because the dominant group, the Persians
or the Iranians or those who identify as Iranians, they
ignored us, They ignored our suffering, they ignored our identity.
They were just repeating what the regime has been saying
(13:46):
since over forty years, but in a different form. So
this somehow created a lot of mistrust and also the
people inside, Like I was there when that was happening,
and I was working non stop every day of recording, writing, texting,
being on interviews, the people actually lost their hope because
(14:08):
there was no united position, there was no united structure
to say that, yeah, we're advocating for you. I mean,
in the first few months it was really great. For example,
here in Germany they had a very big demonstration and
over eighty thousand people from all across Europe. They traveled
to Berlin for that demonstration. It was great, and all
(14:32):
the groups from Iranians, turks, Arabs, Balucci is like everybody
was there. But unfortunately following that, the people like specifically
who's a Palavi, the so called crown Prince of Iran?
Who is another like his story is like very also
like crazy, yeah, he and his group and his circle,
(14:53):
and also people like Massi al Najatte And I would
say all the celebrities because they are not truly they
are politicians. They have no political study they have they
haven't done any specific political work. They are just celebrities.
Like Nazni Bulgnadi she played in some movies. Yeah she's
a really great actress, but not a good politician. Like
(15:14):
these things that celebrities who truly don't understand or they
don't want to understand what people inside Kurtistan, Iran and
Baluchis don't want They pretended to be our voices and
they never listened to us. And then this just made
a lot of distraws and a lot of also hate
(15:34):
between the people. Yeah, so that's why I can say
that it just failed after that, And unfortunately many many
of the people who were arrested during that time, they
are still in jail, and just a few days ago
five of them were sentenced to death and we made
a report about them. So like every day did they
(15:57):
get sentenced to death? And I person know many of
these people who were injured and they are now here
in Germany. They were brought here but by some human
turing visas. Some of them are my friends. So like
it just failed. At the same time, I also have
(16:23):
to mention that one of the reasons that it also
failed it was the regime's extensive propression. They militarized the
entire cities, specifically in Kurdistan and Baluchistan. For example, in Kurdistan,
they already have over two thousand military bases and checkpoints
all over the Kurdistan region. And during that time they
(16:47):
they had like tanks and military vehicles in the entrances,
like in the gates of every city and also town
they were checking out people like I personally get during
these two years, I really didn't go out much, maybe
once a week or once in attendees just to I
don't know, to go and eat something out, you know,
(17:07):
like I was always home. Yeah, yeah, because I couldn't
go out and because my work was important. And then
they were just controlling people. They were arresting people, and
even like from the stories that I have worked on before,
these injured people. They also they were hiding in small
villages and even in the mountains, but the regime forces
were everywhere looking for these people and these activists. So
(17:30):
it was like a holy military lockdown in the region.
And there are many crazy stories. I don't know if
you have time enough time to talk about, like some
different and specific things that happened, and it was really
scary at that time.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, I would like you to share that with this
because I think one thing people don't understand is that
the Iranian regime has a colossal capacity.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
For violence against the certain citizens.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I think if we talk about some specific instances and
then maybe we can talk about recently, there has been
a bombing campaign against some nuclear facilities and some IIGC commanders,
and like I think if you start with your anecdotes
about what happened during this last uprising, that will help
people understand why, like the consequence of this bombing campaign
(18:19):
are not good for people who want to have freedom
in Iran, right, both people inside the country at least.
So yeah, us tell us some things about that capacity
for repression.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, so, like the bombing happened, and we saw, we
all saw how crazy and how insane, like it was
like movies. I couldn't believe my eyes when it happened.
It was really crazy. And yeah, that was like the
war between two brutal states, Israel and Iran, who both
have no respect for dignity of humans. Nothing, absolutely, Yeah,
(18:54):
the first thing that happened it was that, Yeah, they
targeted I think so as far as I remember from
our statistics, over three hundred and fifty or around that
were the IRGC commanders or the officials from the nuclear programs,
and like really the judges who have sentenced thousands of
(19:16):
people to death, Like the targeted people were mainly these
type of people, and also there were also some civilians.
I think maybe around eighty or nineties civilians whom some
of them were actually like family members of these IERGC members,
and also some children. And also there was a lot
(19:37):
of destruction, specifically in Tehran, many buildings including the Evan.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Prison, yeah, it's where they hit the prison, the.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Center of the Iranian broadcast and all these places were
targeted and many officials were killed, also civilians. But the
Iranian regime's response to that was not fully against Israel,
who was bombing Iranian I er GC bases. In the
(20:08):
first days, they started attacking civilians. They started arresting every
I don't know, some random people, and so far I
think last time we checked hundreds of people across specifically
in Kurdistan they were arrested, and some others were already
like in these days, they got executed because they were
(20:31):
accused of spinach for Israel or working for Israel. Just
a few weeks ago, I think five or four or
maybe three, I don't recall the numbers right now, but
some Kurdish political prisoners who were accused of working for
Israel were executed in my hometown Formia in Iskordistan, and
(20:54):
then so many others were also arrested and then I
think some others were also tortured. At least I remember
one case which we worked on it. There was one
case that was tortured to death because he was accused
of working for Israel and things like that. This was
like one of the responses that the Iranian regime started doing.
(21:18):
And one of the things that this regime did in
the first days, it was that they took lots of
military vehicles and like I don't know, equipments inside schools.
For example, in the city of Saradash, it's a really
amazing beautiful Kurdish city on top of some mountains. It's beautiful.
(21:38):
There's a high school in the city center, exactly in
the city center, and they took lots of military equipment
and stuff inside the school and they threatened the school manager,
if you don't give us the key right now, we
will arrest you. We will do this and that. And
they also did that in the city of Kermanshah. They
also did that in the I remember because I worked
(22:01):
under report. It was in the neighbor in the neighborhoodhood
called the Zilabad and they took some military coupments next
to a hospital which was also bombed and the hospital
was damaged and some people were injured. That was one
of the things that the regime did. And at the
same time, I don't know if you know about this,
but in Iran the military service is compulsory, like Israel,
(22:25):
like many like Switzerland, like many countries. But in Iran
it's it's forture. It's some sort of repression against young men.
So across Kurtistan, for example, in a military base in
my hometown in Urma, it's called Almahdi. It's a very
big military base. I know that some soldiers who are
(22:45):
like civilians, but they are forced into it. They're like teenagers,
I don't know, nineteen twenty or twenty one, like you were.
Young guys, yeah, very young that really don't want to
be there, but they are forced to. They they were
saying that their commanders threatened, if you leave the military base,
we will arrest you, we will torture you, and we
(23:08):
will execute you for betraying for like I don't know,
for training your country or things like that, or working
for Israel. This was like one of one of the
concerns that many families had before on those days, because
I talked with some people like our neighbor's son was
(23:30):
also in a military base. He is like nineteen. Yeah,
they were putting lots of pressure on civilians while ignoring
that what Israel is doing every day. They were bombing
all the military bases, I don't know places, and like
they were even bombing places that nobody even knew that
they existed. But their focus was, like the regime's focus
(23:52):
was on civilians who were just scared, who were just
trying to protect their families. Yeah, and this is like
what they started doing. And yeah, I mean it's still
going It still is going on, and they are arresting
people all the time, and as usual, the majority of
the focus and repression is again happening in Kurtison against
(24:16):
Kurdish people. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I think it's very important people understand like that the
Iran it's not like an ethno state, well it is
an ethno state, but that there is not ethnically monolithic,
like the territory of Iran and the Persian ethno state
do not necessarily like line up. I think people will
also be very confused about like when we hear quote
(24:38):
unquote Iranian opposition in this country, right, it's often like
I think there's this knee jack. Oh, that's good, right,
These are people who opposed to this regime which is
brutally cracking down on people. But often then, as you say,
it's associated with like monarchists for the most part. And
then we have these various like anything in Kurdistan, right,
like it's an alphabet suit but like there is like
(25:00):
there were seventy five different like initial groups of initials.
Can you explain who some of these actors are, right,
we have the Iranian monarchies, we have the KDPI, we
have all these different groups pagiach like you say, the
kdk group. Can you explain who some of these people are?
For people say understand.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah, if I want to talk about Kurtistan, I would
go to the first Mother and Kurdish party called KDPI,
which was founded in nineteen forty five and it was
the founder of the Kurdistan Republic. And also then there's
the Koma Law Party, which is also like a socialist
(25:40):
communist leftist party, which also has several branches but they're
all basically the same. And also there are other parties
like PAK yeah, yeah, the Freedom Party of Kurdistan, and
also we have Pajak, the Free Life Kurdistan Party or
I don't know if it's that, it's the same in English.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, Kaddistan Free Life Party.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah. These are the main political parties and actors in
East Kurtistan. However, there are also like smaller parties like
Habbat and also some parties that are affiliated like they
are like very small groups that are affiliated with for example,
the Iranian Communist Party, which is not also really big.
(26:25):
But the main ones right now are KDPI and Tomola,
who both of them have like a long history of
fighting against the regime and also against the monarchists the
Pahlavi regime. They were i would say, really really active
until like twenty twenty three. They played a very very
(26:48):
important role in the revolution and like in Kurdistan specifically
because they were they were the ones who were announcing
like strikes, and they were working together other and like
organizing things and helping people out to resist. Obviously, there
was no arm struggle at that time or conflict because
(27:12):
they said we're not going to fight because if we
bring the fights and conflict inside Kurdistan, the regime will
destroy the cities with styles. This is exactly what they
said at that time. Because there was a demand from
people that yeah, the Peshmarga forces should come in the
cities and fight alongside with us, but they said no,
(27:34):
if you do this, the regime will destroy the cities.
These are the main forces in Kurdistan, and of course
they have different ideologies. Pajak is like the PKK's wing,
or if I want to be more official, it's a
member of the KCK or Kjaks, we'll say. And the
ADPI is like as I said, the history goes back
(27:57):
to nineteen forty five and in the early seventies. And
also pak I'm not sure when it was founded, but
it was also like it was founded one by one
of the members of the KDPI Huseinia's Dampana. And there
are more of a military I would say, well organized
military group that they also played a good role against
(28:22):
the the Icis in twenty seventeen and eighteen, specifically in
keer Kuk in South Kurdistan or Iraqi Kurdistan. And about
the Iran in a position if I want to say, yes,
we have the monarchists, the rizapah Levi and his group.
(28:44):
They have like a whole long list of parties. Basically
they are all the same, but they have different names,
and they are all right wing, and they all focused
on the territorial integrity of Iran, but they also pretend
that they care also about democracy, but that's that's a lie.
And then we have people like Massi Alinejad, who is
(29:08):
more of She is an activist and she's she's internationally
known for her activism against the compulsory hy job. But
she doesn't have any specific party or organization. She is
just an activist and a journalist obviously. And also there
(29:29):
are other several people that work with her, like Nazani
Bunyati who also works with like Pa Lavis. And also
there is another one who also played a big role.
His name is Hamid Ismailiun. He is one of the
members of the families of the people who were killed
in that plane that was shot by missiles biology see
(29:50):
in twenty twenty in Tehran. And again there were many
Kurds inside that Ukrainian plane as well. This person Smailuni,
he's one of the members of like. He lost his
entire family in that plane crash or attack. He organized
many many great and big demonstrations across Canada, Australia, I
(30:13):
think even in the US and specifically in Germany. The
one in Berlin was the biggest. Also, he doesn't have
a party, but he also somehow backed down after what
Alavis did, for example, like or the monarchists did with
the whole opposition groups. There are also some leftist groups
(30:33):
and individuals, but unfortunately they're not truly leftists. So I
want to give you a name. There is a person
called adah As Easy. He is also well known in
the US. I don't know. He wrote some books and
he works with really like international media. Just a few
days ago he posted something that said, we the leftists
(30:54):
of Iran, we are in love with our homeland and
we care about our homeland and we don't it just
posted something that was that was really nationalistic, like a
typical Persian Iranian sentiment. That was that that that's been
going on and it's got lots of criticism from different groups.
(31:15):
And then we have the the Awazi Arabs. They also
have some parties, but they're not really strong or active
or well organized, like the Kurdish ones, the Turks, the
Ozer by Johnny Turks. They also have some groups, but
they're also not very active or organized. And many of
(31:36):
these groups they are heavily affiliated with the azer Bai
Johnny government or the Turkish regime and specifically the MHP
party in Turkey, like the ulternational Turkish party yeah right, yeah,
and then the Baluchiese I can say they are more
organized because they have this I don't want to call
(32:01):
him a leader, but like the the highest the highest
level h moullah in Baluchistan, Molavi Abdulhamid. He is like
the most popular mulah in that region, and he was
one of the people that was organizing protests and he
(32:22):
was giving lots of speeches like during the Friday prayers
in Baluchistan, and a lot of people were. They still
like they follow him and they follow his words. But
unfortunately he is also like appointed as the Imam of
the Friday prayers, if I want to be more specific,
in Baluchistan by Kameny himself, the Iranian Supreme Realer. But
(32:47):
it's like a little bit hard to understand that where
he stands exactly because on one side he he's appointed
by the regime, but on the other side he's also
like acting as a political leader or advocate. In Baluchastan,
I think they also have some armed groups, but there
are mainly Islamists, and I would say, but they're also
(33:10):
not very very well organized. Yet they do attack the
IRGC members and these agents who are pressing people on
a daily basis sometimes and sometimes they get killed. And
also sometimes just a few days ago, there was a
fight between these people and like civilians in the village
and also the IRGC courses and I think two women
(33:34):
were killed and more than ten or eleven were injured. Jeez,
but this this fights and conflicts and they're always happening
in Baluchistan. Yeah, it can be hard, I.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Think, especially people aren't familiar, right, like the Pak to
distinguish from Pjak, like have definitely been making a big
effort on the internet, I will say, like with their
Peshmerga right in the last three weeks since the US
entered the Israel's bombing campaign, like to a pea like
(34:07):
like this, and they are very well organized pash Mega
like I think they say they're inca cook. I think
maybe they're in Kubani as well, like maybe they yeah,
they joined in yeah, ye, the.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Pajak who was specifically in Rajava and they were also
fighting against Isis because like they are like as I said,
they are, they're a member of KCK, and there are
allies of PKK, so they're all are interconnected and they
all work together.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I think the PAK also, we're in Rushava.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Right, I am not sure, but I think members of
PAK joined like the fight in Rojava, like as individuals,
because the fighting was also something that people from all
over Kurdistan went there.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yeah, from northern Kerdistan to yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, And these are very organized groups, but like there
isn't I guess there is a kind of insurgency. But
as you say, like if these groups just took up
bombs in the cities and the IIGC would destroy everyone
in those cities, right, that's a I think people sometimes
wonder like why they don't just start fighting and then
there is fighting, to be clear, But like as you say,
(35:19):
the regime punishes civilians, right.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Yeah, I mean, this is not the first time that
the regime does this. Every time that Israel does something
to the regime, because this is not the first time
that Israel has killed someone in Iran, like some IRGC
member or nuclear agent, nuclear scientists or whatever. Every time
that's happened during the past few years. Instead of responding
(35:46):
to Israel as a state. They responded to the Kurdish people.
I think it was just two years Again, in twenty
twenty two, they literally bombed a civilian house in urban
the capital of Iraqi, Curtistan, and they killed an entire family,
like a it was like maybe a six seven month
(36:08):
old baby and her father. They always respond to Kurtz
when they get attacked or bombed or damaged or whatever
by Israel or America.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, it's like a soft target attarget they feel they
can like safely attack, you know, versus Like we know
now that they Iran pre warned the United States it
was going to attack its basis, you know, following this
bombing raid, and it was more of a performative thing
than a serious attempt to attack US basis. And even
(36:40):
like this week I saw in Slea money like they
ran Is sending shahedrones.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah. Actually during the past maybe ten days, this is
like last night there was an attacking Slemaney. But this
is like I think the fourth or third time that
there have There have been like several drone attacks on
different places. So yeah, this is something that the Regeem
has been doing. One of the other funny things. I mean,
(37:18):
this is not funny exactly, but it's weird. I just
yesterday and actually two days ago. I'm not really good
with dates and numbers, that's okay. Just two days ago,
they conducted like a cyber attack on this TV channel,
Iran International, which is also advocating for monarchists, and they
expose like some nude photos and like private photos and
(37:42):
videos of some of the staff that work there, and
they are threatening that we will publish more if you
don't stop or whatever. This is also like another strategies
that the regime uses when they lose something, when they
get attacked, they also like target at this journalists or
for example, they threatened their families or they threatened them
(38:06):
here inside Europe or in America or Canada or wherever
they are. Yeah, this is like as we call it,
it's the transnational repression of the regime and it's been
going on forever and again if you look at the numbers,
most of the attacks have been on Kurdish activists. For example,
during the past thirty years, over I think around six
(38:28):
hundred non political activists have been killed by the regime
outside of Iran, and nearly four hundred and fifty or
something of them were Kurdish. Yeah, this is also another
thing that the regime has been doing, and in these
days they have intensified. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah. They have a long history of trans national repression
and like participating in the repression of other revolutions, right,
Like of course they were massive backers of the side
regime interior. You know, all around the region. They will
find the wrong side to line up on it and
do that.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Again.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Of course, people will also be familiar they we supporting
Kazmala for instance in Lebanon. One thing I've heard is
that like the regime has been really cracking down on
Afghan people, like mass devotations of Afghan people who have
come to Iran, right and especially in the wake of
this bombing campaign.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Can we talk about that briefly.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Yes, of course. I think that's one of the most
horrible things that happened after the war so far. We
know that just in June they deported over thirty thousand
Afghans and it's still going on, like they mass support
tens of thousands of Afghan refugees every day, and just
(39:42):
something that was really horrible to me when I read it.
There were six thousand kids that were unregistered and they
were separated from their parents and they were sent back
to Afghanistan alone Jesus. Yeah, and they are haunting down
Afghan my grants in different cities across around, especially in
(40:03):
Tehran because most of them are there. And the thing
is that the Afghan I think there are over three
million Afghan migrants in Iran or maybe more. Yeah, nobody
knows the exact numbers because the Iranian government never ever
publishes the true statistics, but there are millions of them
in Iran and they are not actually allowed to They
(40:26):
were not allowed actually like they're getting kicked out right now,
but they were not allowed to work in Kurdish cities.
They were only allowed to work in Persian speaking cities
like Tehran, Mashatras, Isfahan and these big industrial cities. So
like right now, if you look at the internet, they
(40:47):
are being hunted down by Iranian agents everywhere and they're
being forced to go back to Afghanistan. And one of
the things that I want to mention that's been going
on from a humanitarian perspective, that really really makes me sad,
and also it reflects a very ugly reality about the
(41:08):
Persian or the Iranian society and the amount of racism
and fascism that exists among them, not just by the regime,
by the people as well. There have been hundreds of
videos and footage online. You can also check just certain
you will see that random citizens, young people, they are
(41:30):
attacking Afghan people in the city and I don't know,
in subways, in the parks, in cheese, in public places.
Just yesterday I saw a very heartbreaking video because like
Afgone people, they also have a different look. You can
easily say that they're not Iranians. An Afghan teenager was
(41:52):
being attacked by eggs Jesus and they were just throwing
eggs at him and then they poured like lots of
some powder and then like some juice and like Coca cola.
I don't know what was that. They were just throwing
everything at him. And on the other another videw that
I saw, they stopped a man maybe he was thirty
or something. They forced him to kiss the hand of
(42:15):
a stray dog. I mean, yeah, that would be like, yeah,
he's kissing a dog. But in the Middle East culture,
when you force someone to kiss a dog.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
It's very disrespectful.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Yeah, it's really disrespectful, and like they're also I read
on the internet that many Afghans reported that, like for example,
in Tehran, they were renting a house or an apartment
or something, and they were living in those apartments and
the landlord reported them to the police. It's like what's
happening in the US. It's something like ice, but it's
(42:46):
Iranian but more brutal. Then the police just came and
took them all. And now the landlords are refusing to
give back the passion money to Afghuns, and many of
them are being forced out with any food, without any
support anything, and especially the women, like I also read
(43:06):
about like a doctor that fled Polybon and he was
in Tehran and now if he goes back, the Tolliban
will definitely kill him because he was like against Tolliban. Yeah,
I mean, it's it's it's a very horrible humanitarian situation.
And the people, like in Baluchistan, they're also suffering. But
(43:27):
I saw many videos and also some of the activists
published lots of footage that they were they were bringing food, water,
I don't know, medicine and things like that on the
on the road to give it to those people who
are going back, and they were offering I don't know
whatever they had. And in Afghanistan there is also happening.
But it's just so crazy because both the regime and
(43:50):
also the anti regime media are trying to portray Afghans
as the problem, just exactly like how the far right
parties in like if they are portraying refugees and migrants
are as the main problem.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, it's a global thing. It happens here in the
US UK.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Yeah, it's it's exactly the same. Yeah, and like unfortunately
the even the Iranian opposition has not been clear. But
again because there is some sort of solidarity that encourage
pollutes and Afghans and also other minorities. It's the minorities
that talk about this. It's the minority groups and organizations
(44:30):
who try to raise awareness over this. Unfortunately, I think
nobody can stop it because they're doing it anyways.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah, and like we shouldn't support an opposition politics and
it's just another ethno. No, Like we see that in
Syria right now, right, Like, yeah, they haven't even changed
the name. We have this revolution, tens of thousands, maybe
one hundreds of thousands of people definitely died to build
something better. We still have the Syrian Arab Republic. Yeah, yeah,
(45:02):
it's maybe the Ala Whites are being persecuted now and
they weren't before, But like that shouldn't matter, right, Like
if we if we're build trying to build something better.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
I mean, there are just remnants of isis. So what
can you expect?
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, it's uh yeah, it's very sad to see,
you know, after after so much killing and dying, I
guess to finish up. I think people in the US
do not get very good coverage of what's happening in
a run, right, Like it said that, as you say,
dominated by monarchist outlets, we tend to have good resources
(45:34):
which allow them to kind of get to the top
of people's feeds or they're getting like press, TV stuff,
right that just like rage straight up regime propaganda. Now,
where can people find like good resources to understand what's
what's happening in a round? Like from the perspective of
you know, the majority of people who just want to
live a free life, and especially like you know, the
(45:58):
women in particularly in a round, right, an extremely difficult
and repressive every the regime dominates every aspect of their life. Like,
where can people find reasonable coverage that achnowledge is there.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Honestly, if I want to talk about media like TV
channels or just media websites, there is no media like
Iranian media that truly reflects what's happening in Iran. There
are like many leftists and also right wing medias from
for example, if I want to go like a very
leftist media called Radio Zamani, they are not really good.
(46:34):
Like then we have Iran International, BBC, Persian Voice of America,
Persian Independent, Persian like there are many many media that
all of these, like I would say the big media,
they are heavily dominated and I would say exploited by
the ultranationalist people. And also there are people who are
(46:56):
related to IRGC and this organization called Naya that is
like the regime's lobby group in the US, and these
individuals that work there, they truly don't reflect what's happening there.
And I mean, it's it's kind of hard because if
people want to understand what's happening, maybe they should read
everything they're posting and then analyze that, hey, this makes
(47:18):
sense and this doesn't. But that just a little bit hard.
But also on the other side, I would suggest that
people should follow more human rights organizations, which again some
of them, if I want, I don't know if it's
okay to say their names, some of them and the
people for example, the Burumant Organization, they did lots of
(47:39):
great work, but recently again they showed some sort of
racism and like censorship against minorities, especially Kurt and people
like Lot and bozs are gone. They are like also
doing some human rights work in the US, and even
people like Massi and all the I would say known activists,
(48:02):
and even here in Germany, they are not truly reflecting
what's happening. They're just focused on the Persian perspective and
they're like they talk about minorities time to time, but
only when it fits into their agendas, into their ideologies
and perspectives. But there are other organizations which I'm working with,
(48:26):
like Hangout Organizations for human rights. Until two thousand, late
twenty twenty three, I guess we were mainly focused on
East Kurdistan, but right now we report human rights violations
from all over Iran, like yeah, but we try our best,
and I think I could say that we are one
of the best when it comes to all these things,
(48:49):
and we don't care about what people think. We just
report what's happening or what happened. And there are other
organizations like Iran Human Rights they're also good. For example,
there is another one called Tawana. They are like a
very big organization, but unfortunately they advocated for the monarchists
(49:09):
again just a few months ago, so it's kind of
hard to see that who is truly on the side
of people. And when you look at the human rights organizations.
I'm not saying this because I'm Kurdish, but this is
what I see and I think it's true. The only
organizations that truly reflect what's happening without caring about people's
(49:31):
backgrounds or ethnicity or whatever. It's our organization hang out
and also like organizations like Curtis on Human Rights Network,
but unfortunately the majority of the others are are really clear.
So for Kurdish issue that I would say definitely hang
out and also on my page Kurtistani people I also
like write a lot of things, and also Kurdish Piece
(49:53):
Institute and Kurtish Center for Studies. They have lots of
other Kurdish journalists and experts that write a lot of
really good articles about the situation there. And if I
want to mention names, I would say Roji Mokiani. She
is like a really great researcher. She lives in Ireland.
There is another professor called Camraan Martin. He also writes
(50:17):
really great analysis on situation and like the things that
people even don't think about. They're writing with so many
different international organizations and institutes. Yeah, there are like these
individuals and activists.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Thank you so much for joining us. That was really
that really helped, I think for people to understand things.
Tell us about your your Kurdistan People page. Where can
they find that on on Instagram?
Speaker 3 (50:43):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me and thank you for
letting me speak. Yeah, I have this page Kurdistani People.
I usually post about all over Kurdistan the things that matter.
Obviously I can't do it all the time, but yeah, yeah,
I post a lot of things. And there are other
pages that are also collaborate with, like Kurtish Activism or
(51:04):
everything about Kurtistan. We're just a group of people who
work together. Obviously, like our organization, I think it's it's
very very important for people to follow and support it.
Hang Out Organization for Human Rights and also Kurtistan Human
Rights Network that's also like another one that you can follow. Yeah,
and also like gay I talked about some names and
(51:27):
individuals and researchers. You can also follow them for more
professional analysis about East Kurtistan or Rochalot.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Yeah. Great, well, thank you Sam for joining us. We
really appreciate your time. Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (51:45):
It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
You can now find sources for It Could Happen.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
You are listed directly in episode descriptions.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Thanks for listening.
All media. Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's me James today and I'm joined by gorjin Jedmai
from HENGL, the human rights organization. Also a journalist who's
worked for the Kurdish Peace Institute who we've had on
the show before, who I've also worked with, and the
founder of the Kurtis Dan People's page on Instagram. Welcome
to the show, Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm so glad
to be here today with you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, of course, and what we're going to talk about
today is Rodia Lat or Eastern Kurdistan and how this
figures into I guess what's happening currently in Iran.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
What has been happening in Iran, And like.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think it's really important to give a little more
explanation and background on particularly the different ethnic groups in
Iran than people generally get when they can consume legacy
media here.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Yeah, so if I want to talk about this, like,
we need to talk about the history of at least
one hundred and twenty one hundred fifty years, so it's
really a lot. But today's structure of what we know
as Iran is made up of several different ethnic groups
from Persians, Turks, I mean Ozerbaijani Turks, Turkmands, Heerds, Baluchi's, Ahwazi,
(01:28):
Arabs and so many others. But I would say the
dominant population, the dominant ethnic group, and the dominant aulture
and language is definitely Persians. Yeah. And if I want
to be more clear, this dominant ethnic group has been
exploding and colonizing and destroying all the lands and the
(01:54):
communities and societies from non Persian regions including Kurdistan, Baluchistan, Azerbaijan,
Ahawas and many other regions in this biographical region paul Iran.
And this mainly started during the former monarchy Pahlavis, and
(02:16):
it was intensified after the nineteen seventy nine Islamic Revolution
led by Ayatu la Romeni, and as usual, the Kurdish
people were the first to stand against this newly established regime.
In nineteen seventy nine, a few months after the so
(02:36):
called revolution, the Kurds were demanding their rights, specifically the
right to self determination and also federalism, which was responded
by a heavy hit by heavy attacks and under the
jihad order of Ayatu la Romeni, which led to the
massacre of tens of thousands of civilians and destructions of
(02:58):
several hundred villages and mass executions of Kurdish people across
the what we know as Eastern Kurdistan or Roshalat. And
following that the oppression continued, and also it was done
against other ethnic groups, specifically Baluchi's and also the Awazi
(03:19):
Arabs and also the Azerbaijani Turks, but in Kurdistan and
Baluchistan it has always been more intense and more brutal.
And then in late nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties
they killed two of the Kurdish leaders, doctor Abdur Rahman
Kasumlu and doctor shut Off Candy in Europe during some
(03:42):
negotiations and thus ended up in kurt being in a
worse situation. And then until around early two thousands, I
think around two thousand and four or three, the PKK
built or established its wing in Rochalat known as the
Free Kurdistan Party or Pajak sorry Free Kurdistan Life Party
(04:07):
in Rochalot. And then but unfortunately this party was not
really as strong as the KDPI or Komala that were
already in the fight with the with the Iranian states.
Since nineteen forty six and so on. This oppression has
been just intensifying by mass execution of Kurdish people, the
(04:29):
mass execution of the political prisoners and activists, and imprisonment
of the different people in the Kurdish society from language
teachers to environmental activists to children, women, anyone, and this
whole impression that I've been mentioning about, like that that's
(04:51):
happening in East Kurdistan. It has also resulted in a
humanitarian phenomenon called kulba. Pullbars are a group of people
that are extremely underprivileged. They have no access to anything,
so they are somehow forced to go into some sort
of work that they have to carry goods between the
(05:14):
borders of East Kurdistan and South Kurdistan or North Kurdistan
specifically between Iraq, Iran and Turkey. And every year we
have numbers in our organizations you can check. We have
a specific statistics section for these col wars. Every year
hundreds of them get killed. Just for example, in since
the beginning of twenty twenty five, twenty two of them
(05:37):
have been killed and injured. And among these people there
are children, women, old people. So this is also another
form of oppression that this regime has been using. Again
start people, because this is actually one of the biggest
forms of oppression, if I want to talk about it.
There are over one hundred and fifty thousand coal bars
in East Kurdistan that are somehow into this type of
(06:01):
work because they have no other means of income, and
the government, the Ringing government actually like limitits all the
if I want to call it economic developments in East Kurdistan.
This has been going on for decades. And then we
come to twenty nineteen again there was another so I
(06:22):
want to call it uprising or master tests across Iran
when the regime killed over one five hundred people. I
mean before that, there were also tests almost every year,
but that was like one of the biggest one. It
was in November twenty nineteen, and they cut down the
internet for twelve days. I remember I was at the
university at that time. And then they killed one thy
(06:46):
five hundred people, specifically so many people in Kurdistan. They
even throw that kills people into like lakes and rivers,
and then after like months and days people found the
bodies like in the nature jeeze. And then we come
to twenty twenty two in September when they the morality
(07:06):
police killed Gina Amini, the Kurdish woman who was apparently
not wearing a proper hijab or the Islamic cloth or
whatever you want to call it. She was killed by
the Iranian morality police in Tehran, which led to the
as we know it. I don't know if you can
(07:26):
call it a revolution or uprising or just mass tests
called Jhinjiana Zadi or women life Freedom movement. And this
also again because it was inspired by Kurtz the first
victim was occurred again. Obviously it started in Kurdistan and
it spread so fast. Just in a few days, the
(07:49):
entire Kurdish cities were testing, and then it was followed
by other Iranian cities like Tehran. She was but it
was not as intense as in Kurdistan. I think it was.
Three days after her death, the Kurdish parties Katipi and
Komala and some others that are not very well known
(08:09):
like pak and also Pajak or the Free Life Kurdistan Party,
they announced a general strike across Kurdistan and they called
on people to close down everything and go on a
full lockdown to protest the killing of Gina Amini, which
was responded by I think over one hundred missiles or
(08:32):
something from the IRGC and the Iranian regime and it
killed I think eighteen if I'm not wrong, but it
killed several people in the camps belonging to these parties
in today's Iraqi Kurdistan where as we call it South Kurdistan.
There were also like family members of the Kurdish politicians
(08:54):
and Kurdish Pishmarga that were in those refugee camps that
are also supported by the UN. They were killed there
and then the protests just got intensified. And I was
also there. We were reporting every day about all the
things that were happening. Also, the Baluchi people joined the protests.
(09:14):
And at the same time of those days, a fifteen
years old Baluchi girl was raped and killed by an
IRGC commander or member in Baluchistan, and people also protested that.
And there was a Friday which is known as the
Bloody Friday of Zahidan. People in Baluchistan. They went to
a big mosque in the city of Zahidan and they
(09:37):
were doing their Friday prayers as Mauslims, and then they
started protesting. And this was responded by the Iranian regime
forces and over one hundred people were massacred on that day,
which also led to mass execution of more political and
just random prisoners in Baluchistan. The protests just went on
(10:02):
and there was a really heavy repression so far, I
think over maybe between five hundred to six hundred people
were killed. These are like the official ones, and also
several other of these protesters, specifically from Kurtiston were executed.
Some of them were executed in public to spread more
(10:24):
fear among people, but people were not given up. And
then it continued until twenty twenty three. I think it
was around maybe in March, I'm not really remembering the
exact date, but it was also in twenty twenty three
that they started attacking schools, like girls' schools, with some
sort of gases that nobody actually knows that what type
(10:46):
of chemical gases they were using, and unfortunately we have them,
like we've reported on. Then some school children, like some kids,
they were killed by these gases, and they were specifically
targeting a girls school because they are like separate, they
don't they're not together in the Iranian system.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Integrate.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yeah, And then this went on and people were still protesting,
but unfortunately it somehow stopped. And if I wanted to
analyze that and related to like to talk about the reasons.
One of the main reasons I think also many other
political activists and analysts also agree on that that the opposition,
(11:28):
but as we know as the Iranian opposition was not
truly united. Yeah, there was a huge effort specifically from
the Kurdish parties like Comala and Abdullah Motadi. They tried
to create some sort of collaboration with the so called
Iranian oppositions, specifically the monarchists like the Pahlavis and some
(11:53):
other groups. But unfortunately these groups, I mean it was
in the middle of an uprising, like a movement that
hasn't been happening since maybe forty years. Instead of working
together for a common goal like the Iranian opposition groups
specifically the Parlavis and also the other ones like if
(12:15):
I want to say, like the Massy and like all
the people that work with her, instead of working towards
a common goal, they started discriminating against minorities. They started
ignoring and denying and also censoring the minorities, the same
minorities that were the most active against the regime that
(12:37):
had the biggest number of sacrifices in the protests and
also in prisons. They just started spreading their own typical
national I mean, I would even call them ultra nationalistic sentiments.
And for example, if I want to give one of
the biggest things that we always talk about, these people
(12:59):
who are apparently against the regime, they have some red lines,
and their main red line has always been the so
called Iranian territorial integrity. So like these type of sentiments
and discussions, it's somehow created like a lot of mistrust
between the Kurdish groups, the Baluchi groups. Also like with
(13:23):
Hawazi Arabs and Azerbaijani Turks and all these groups, they
couldn't trust each other because the dominant group, the Persians
or the Iranians or those who identify as Iranians, they
ignored us, They ignored our suffering, they ignored our identity.
They were just repeating what the regime has been saying
(13:46):
since over forty years, but in a different form. So
this somehow created a lot of mistrust and also the
people inside, Like I was there when that was happening,
and I was working non stop every day of recording, writing, texting,
being on interviews, the people actually lost their hope because
(14:08):
there was no united position, there was no united structure
to say that, yeah, we're advocating for you. I mean,
in the first few months it was really great. For example,
here in Germany they had a very big demonstration and
over eighty thousand people from all across Europe. They traveled
to Berlin for that demonstration. It was great, and all
(14:32):
the groups from Iranians, turks, Arabs, Balucci is like everybody
was there. But unfortunately following that, the people like specifically
who's a Palavi, the so called crown Prince of Iran?
Who is another like his story is like very also
like crazy, yeah, he and his group and his circle,
(14:53):
and also people like Massi al Najatte And I would
say all the celebrities because they are not truly they
are politicians. They have no political study they have they
haven't done any specific political work. They are just celebrities.
Like Nazni Bulgnadi she played in some movies. Yeah she's
a really great actress, but not a good politician. Like
(15:14):
these things that celebrities who truly don't understand or they
don't want to understand what people inside Kurtistan, Iran and
Baluchis don't want They pretended to be our voices and
they never listened to us. And then this just made
a lot of distraws and a lot of also hate
(15:34):
between the people. Yeah, so that's why I can say
that it just failed after that, And unfortunately many many
of the people who were arrested during that time, they
are still in jail, and just a few days ago
five of them were sentenced to death and we made
a report about them. So like every day did they
(15:57):
get sentenced to death? And I person know many of
these people who were injured and they are now here
in Germany. They were brought here but by some human
turing visas. Some of them are my friends. So like
it just failed. At the same time, I also have
(16:23):
to mention that one of the reasons that it also
failed it was the regime's extensive propression. They militarized the
entire cities, specifically in Kurdistan and Baluchistan. For example, in Kurdistan,
they already have over two thousand military bases and checkpoints
all over the Kurdistan region. And during that time they
(16:47):
they had like tanks and military vehicles in the entrances,
like in the gates of every city and also town
they were checking out people like I personally get during
these two years, I really didn't go out much, maybe
once a week or once in attendees just to I
don't know, to go and eat something out, you know,
(17:07):
like I was always home. Yeah, yeah, because I couldn't
go out and because my work was important. And then
they were just controlling people. They were arresting people, and
even like from the stories that I have worked on before,
these injured people. They also they were hiding in small
villages and even in the mountains, but the regime forces
were everywhere looking for these people and these activists. So
(17:30):
it was like a holy military lockdown in the region.
And there are many crazy stories. I don't know if
you have time enough time to talk about, like some
different and specific things that happened, and it was really
scary at that time.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, I would like you to share that with this
because I think one thing people don't understand is that
the Iranian regime has a colossal capacity.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
For violence against the certain citizens.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I think if we talk about some specific instances and
then maybe we can talk about recently, there has been
a bombing campaign against some nuclear facilities and some IIGC commanders,
and like I think if you start with your anecdotes
about what happened during this last uprising, that will help
people understand why, like the consequence of this bombing campaign
(18:19):
are not good for people who want to have freedom
in Iran, right, both people inside the country at least.
So yeah, us tell us some things about that capacity
for repression.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, so, like the bombing happened, and we saw, we
all saw how crazy and how insane, like it was
like movies. I couldn't believe my eyes when it happened.
It was really crazy. And yeah, that was like the
war between two brutal states, Israel and Iran, who both
have no respect for dignity of humans. Nothing, absolutely, Yeah,
(18:54):
the first thing that happened it was that, Yeah, they
targeted I think so as far as I remember from
our statistics, over three hundred and fifty or around that
were the IRGC commanders or the officials from the nuclear programs,
and like really the judges who have sentenced thousands of
(19:16):
people to death, Like the targeted people were mainly these
type of people, and also there were also some civilians.
I think maybe around eighty or nineties civilians whom some
of them were actually like family members of these IERGC members,
and also some children. And also there was a lot
(19:37):
of destruction, specifically in Tehran, many buildings including the Evan.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Prison, yeah, it's where they hit the prison, the.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Center of the Iranian broadcast and all these places were
targeted and many officials were killed, also civilians. But the
Iranian regime's response to that was not fully against Israel,
who was bombing Iranian I er GC bases. In the
(20:08):
first days, they started attacking civilians. They started arresting every
I don't know, some random people, and so far I
think last time we checked hundreds of people across specifically
in Kurdistan they were arrested, and some others were already
like in these days, they got executed because they were
(20:31):
accused of spinach for Israel or working for Israel. Just
a few weeks ago, I think five or four or
maybe three, I don't recall the numbers right now, but
some Kurdish political prisoners who were accused of working for
Israel were executed in my hometown Formia in Iskordistan, and
(20:54):
then so many others were also arrested and then I
think some others were also tortured. At least I remember
one case which we worked on it. There was one
case that was tortured to death because he was accused
of working for Israel and things like that. This was
like one of the responses that the Iranian regime started doing.
(21:18):
And one of the things that this regime did in
the first days, it was that they took lots of
military vehicles and like I don't know, equipments inside schools.
For example, in the city of Saradash, it's a really
amazing beautiful Kurdish city on top of some mountains. It's beautiful.
(21:38):
There's a high school in the city center, exactly in
the city center, and they took lots of military equipment
and stuff inside the school and they threatened the school manager,
if you don't give us the key right now, we
will arrest you. We will do this and that. And
they also did that in the city of Kermanshah. They
also did that in the I remember because I worked
(22:01):
under report. It was in the neighbor in the neighborhoodhood
called the Zilabad and they took some military coupments next
to a hospital which was also bombed and the hospital
was damaged and some people were injured. That was one
of the things that the regime did. And at the
same time, I don't know if you know about this,
but in Iran the military service is compulsory, like Israel,
(22:25):
like many like Switzerland, like many countries. But in Iran
it's it's forture. It's some sort of repression against young men.
So across Kurtistan, for example, in a military base in
my hometown in Urma, it's called Almahdi. It's a very
big military base. I know that some soldiers who are
(22:45):
like civilians, but they are forced into it. They're like teenagers,
I don't know, nineteen twenty or twenty one, like you were.
Young guys, yeah, very young that really don't want to
be there, but they are forced to. They they were
saying that their commanders threatened, if you leave the military base,
we will arrest you, we will torture you, and we
(23:08):
will execute you for betraying for like I don't know,
for training your country or things like that, or working
for Israel. This was like one of one of the
concerns that many families had before on those days, because
I talked with some people like our neighbor's son was
(23:30):
also in a military base. He is like nineteen. Yeah,
they were putting lots of pressure on civilians while ignoring
that what Israel is doing every day. They were bombing
all the military bases, I don't know places, and like
they were even bombing places that nobody even knew that
they existed. But their focus was, like the regime's focus
(23:52):
was on civilians who were just scared, who were just
trying to protect their families. Yeah, and this is like
what they started doing. And yeah, I mean it's still
going It still is going on, and they are arresting
people all the time, and as usual, the majority of
the focus and repression is again happening in Kurtison against
(24:16):
Kurdish people. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I think it's very important people understand like that the
Iran it's not like an ethno state, well it is
an ethno state, but that there is not ethnically monolithic,
like the territory of Iran and the Persian ethno state
do not necessarily like line up. I think people will
also be very confused about like when we hear quote
(24:38):
unquote Iranian opposition in this country, right, it's often like
I think there's this knee jack. Oh, that's good, right,
These are people who opposed to this regime which is
brutally cracking down on people. But often then, as you say,
it's associated with like monarchists for the most part. And
then we have these various like anything in Kurdistan, right,
like it's an alphabet suit but like there is like
(25:00):
there were seventy five different like initial groups of initials.
Can you explain who some of these actors are, right,
we have the Iranian monarchies, we have the KDPI, we
have all these different groups pagiach like you say, the
kdk group. Can you explain who some of these people are?
For people say understand.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah, if I want to talk about Kurtistan, I would
go to the first Mother and Kurdish party called KDPI,
which was founded in nineteen forty five and it was
the founder of the Kurdistan Republic. And also then there's
the Koma Law Party, which is also like a socialist
(25:40):
communist leftist party, which also has several branches but they're
all basically the same. And also there are other parties
like PAK yeah, yeah, the Freedom Party of Kurdistan, and
also we have Pajak, the Free Life Kurdistan Party or
I don't know if it's that, it's the same in English.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, Kaddistan Free Life Party.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah. These are the main political parties and actors in
East Kurtistan. However, there are also like smaller parties like
Habbat and also some parties that are affiliated like they
are like very small groups that are affiliated with for example,
the Iranian Communist Party, which is not also really big.
(26:25):
But the main ones right now are KDPI and Tomola,
who both of them have like a long history of
fighting against the regime and also against the monarchists the
Pahlavi regime. They were i would say, really really active
until like twenty twenty three. They played a very very
(26:48):
important role in the revolution and like in Kurdistan specifically
because they were they were the ones who were announcing
like strikes, and they were working together other and like
organizing things and helping people out to resist. Obviously, there
was no arm struggle at that time or conflict because
(27:12):
they said we're not going to fight because if we
bring the fights and conflict inside Kurdistan, the regime will
destroy the cities with styles. This is exactly what they
said at that time. Because there was a demand from
people that yeah, the Peshmarga forces should come in the
cities and fight alongside with us, but they said no,
(27:34):
if you do this, the regime will destroy the cities.
These are the main forces in Kurdistan, and of course
they have different ideologies. Pajak is like the PKK's wing,
or if I want to be more official, it's a
member of the KCK or Kjaks, we'll say. And the
ADPI is like as I said, the history goes back
(27:57):
to nineteen forty five and in the early seventies. And
also pak I'm not sure when it was founded, but
it was also like it was founded one by one
of the members of the KDPI Huseinia's Dampana. And there
are more of a military I would say, well organized
military group that they also played a good role against
(28:22):
the the Icis in twenty seventeen and eighteen, specifically in
keer Kuk in South Kurdistan or Iraqi Kurdistan. And about
the Iran in a position if I want to say, yes,
we have the monarchists, the rizapah Levi and his group.
(28:44):
They have like a whole long list of parties. Basically
they are all the same, but they have different names,
and they are all right wing, and they all focused
on the territorial integrity of Iran, but they also pretend
that they care also about democracy, but that's that's a lie.
And then we have people like Massi Alinejad, who is
(29:08):
more of She is an activist and she's she's internationally
known for her activism against the compulsory hy job. But
she doesn't have any specific party or organization. She is
just an activist and a journalist obviously. And also there
(29:29):
are other several people that work with her, like Nazani
Bunyati who also works with like Pa Lavis. And also
there is another one who also played a big role.
His name is Hamid Ismailiun. He is one of the
members of the families of the people who were killed
in that plane that was shot by missiles biology see
(29:50):
in twenty twenty in Tehran. And again there were many
Kurds inside that Ukrainian plane as well. This person Smailuni,
he's one of the members of like. He lost his
entire family in that plane crash or attack. He organized
many many great and big demonstrations across Canada, Australia, I
(30:13):
think even in the US and specifically in Germany. The
one in Berlin was the biggest. Also, he doesn't have
a party, but he also somehow backed down after what
Alavis did, for example, like or the monarchists did with
the whole opposition groups. There are also some leftist groups
(30:33):
and individuals, but unfortunately they're not truly leftists. So I
want to give you a name. There is a person
called adah As Easy. He is also well known in
the US. I don't know. He wrote some books and
he works with really like international media. Just a few
days ago he posted something that said, we the leftists
(30:54):
of Iran, we are in love with our homeland and
we care about our homeland and we don't it just
posted something that was that was really nationalistic, like a
typical Persian Iranian sentiment. That was that that that's been
going on and it's got lots of criticism from different groups.
(31:15):
And then we have the the Awazi Arabs. They also
have some parties, but they're not really strong or active
or well organized, like the Kurdish ones, the Turks, the
Ozer by Johnny Turks. They also have some groups, but
they're also not very active or organized. And many of
(31:36):
these groups they are heavily affiliated with the azer Bai
Johnny government or the Turkish regime and specifically the MHP
party in Turkey, like the ulternational Turkish party yeah right, yeah,
and then the Baluchiese I can say they are more
organized because they have this I don't want to call
(32:01):
him a leader, but like the the highest the highest
level h moullah in Baluchistan, Molavi Abdulhamid. He is like
the most popular mulah in that region, and he was
one of the people that was organizing protests and he
(32:22):
was giving lots of speeches like during the Friday prayers
in Baluchistan, and a lot of people were. They still
like they follow him and they follow his words. But
unfortunately he is also like appointed as the Imam of
the Friday prayers, if I want to be more specific,
in Baluchistan by Kameny himself, the Iranian Supreme Realer. But
(32:47):
it's like a little bit hard to understand that where
he stands exactly because on one side he he's appointed
by the regime, but on the other side he's also
like acting as a political leader or advocate. In Baluchastan,
I think they also have some armed groups, but there
are mainly Islamists, and I would say, but they're also
(33:10):
not very very well organized. Yet they do attack the
IRGC members and these agents who are pressing people on
a daily basis sometimes and sometimes they get killed. And
also sometimes just a few days ago, there was a
fight between these people and like civilians in the village
and also the IRGC courses and I think two women
(33:34):
were killed and more than ten or eleven were injured. Jeez,
but this this fights and conflicts and they're always happening
in Baluchistan. Yeah, it can be hard, I.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Think, especially people aren't familiar, right, like the Pak to
distinguish from Pjak, like have definitely been making a big
effort on the internet, I will say, like with their
Peshmerga right in the last three weeks since the US
entered the Israel's bombing campaign, like to a pea like
(34:07):
like this, and they are very well organized pash Mega
like I think they say they're inca cook. I think
maybe they're in Kubani as well, like maybe they yeah,
they joined in yeah, ye, the.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Pajak who was specifically in Rajava and they were also
fighting against Isis because like they are like as I said,
they are, they're a member of KCK, and there are
allies of PKK, so they're all are interconnected and they
all work together.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I think the PAK also, we're in Rushava.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Right, I am not sure, but I think members of
PAK joined like the fight in Rojava, like as individuals,
because the fighting was also something that people from all
over Kurdistan went there.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yeah, from northern Kerdistan to yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, And these are very organized groups, but like there
isn't I guess there is a kind of insurgency. But
as you say, like if these groups just took up
bombs in the cities and the IIGC would destroy everyone
in those cities, right, that's a I think people sometimes
wonder like why they don't just start fighting and then
there is fighting, to be clear, But like as you say,
(35:19):
the regime punishes civilians, right.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Yeah, I mean, this is not the first time that
the regime does this. Every time that Israel does something
to the regime, because this is not the first time
that Israel has killed someone in Iran, like some IRGC
member or nuclear agent, nuclear scientists or whatever. Every time
that's happened during the past few years. Instead of responding
(35:46):
to Israel as a state. They responded to the Kurdish people.
I think it was just two years Again, in twenty
twenty two, they literally bombed a civilian house in urban
the capital of Iraqi, Curtistan, and they killed an entire family,
like a it was like maybe a six seven month
(36:08):
old baby and her father. They always respond to Kurtz
when they get attacked or bombed or damaged or whatever
by Israel or America.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, it's like a soft target attarget they feel they
can like safely attack, you know, versus Like we know
now that they Iran pre warned the United States it
was going to attack its basis, you know, following this
bombing raid, and it was more of a performative thing
than a serious attempt to attack US basis. And even
(36:40):
like this week I saw in Slea money like they
ran Is sending shahedrones.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah. Actually during the past maybe ten days, this is
like last night there was an attacking Slemaney. But this
is like I think the fourth or third time that
there have There have been like several drone attacks on
different places. So yeah, this is something that the Regeem
has been doing. One of the other funny things. I mean,
(37:18):
this is not funny exactly, but it's weird. I just
yesterday and actually two days ago. I'm not really good
with dates and numbers, that's okay. Just two days ago,
they conducted like a cyber attack on this TV channel,
Iran International, which is also advocating for monarchists, and they
expose like some nude photos and like private photos and
(37:42):
videos of some of the staff that work there, and
they are threatening that we will publish more if you
don't stop or whatever. This is also like another strategies
that the regime uses when they lose something, when they
get attacked, they also like target at this journalists or
for example, they threatened their families or they threatened them
(38:06):
here inside Europe or in America or Canada or wherever
they are. Yeah, this is like as we call it,
it's the transnational repression of the regime and it's been
going on forever and again if you look at the numbers,
most of the attacks have been on Kurdish activists. For example,
during the past thirty years, over I think around six
(38:28):
hundred non political activists have been killed by the regime
outside of Iran, and nearly four hundred and fifty or
something of them were Kurdish. Yeah, this is also another
thing that the regime has been doing, and in these
days they have intensified. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah. They have a long history of trans national repression
and like participating in the repression of other revolutions, right,
Like of course they were massive backers of the side
regime interior. You know, all around the region. They will
find the wrong side to line up on it and
do that.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Again.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Of course, people will also be familiar they we supporting
Kazmala for instance in Lebanon. One thing I've heard is
that like the regime has been really cracking down on
Afghan people, like mass devotations of Afghan people who have
come to Iran, right and especially in the wake of
this bombing campaign.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Can we talk about that briefly.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Yes, of course. I think that's one of the most
horrible things that happened after the war so far. We
know that just in June they deported over thirty thousand
Afghans and it's still going on, like they mass support
tens of thousands of Afghan refugees every day, and just
(39:42):
something that was really horrible to me when I read it.
There were six thousand kids that were unregistered and they
were separated from their parents and they were sent back
to Afghanistan alone Jesus. Yeah, and they are haunting down
Afghan my grants in different cities across around, especially in
(40:03):
Tehran because most of them are there. And the thing
is that the Afghan I think there are over three
million Afghan migrants in Iran or maybe more. Yeah, nobody
knows the exact numbers because the Iranian government never ever
publishes the true statistics, but there are millions of them
in Iran and they are not actually allowed to They
(40:26):
were not allowed actually like they're getting kicked out right now,
but they were not allowed to work in Kurdish cities.
They were only allowed to work in Persian speaking cities
like Tehran, Mashatras, Isfahan and these big industrial cities. So
like right now, if you look at the internet, they
(40:47):
are being hunted down by Iranian agents everywhere and they're
being forced to go back to Afghanistan. And one of
the things that I want to mention that's been going
on from a humanitarian perspective, that really really makes me sad,
and also it reflects a very ugly reality about the
(41:08):
Persian or the Iranian society and the amount of racism
and fascism that exists among them, not just by the regime,
by the people as well. There have been hundreds of
videos and footage online. You can also check just certain
you will see that random citizens, young people, they are
(41:30):
attacking Afghan people in the city and I don't know,
in subways, in the parks, in cheese, in public places.
Just yesterday I saw a very heartbreaking video because like
Afgone people, they also have a different look. You can
easily say that they're not Iranians. An Afghan teenager was
(41:52):
being attacked by eggs Jesus and they were just throwing
eggs at him and then they poured like lots of
some powder and then like some juice and like Coca cola.
I don't know what was that. They were just throwing
everything at him. And on the other another videw that
I saw, they stopped a man maybe he was thirty
or something. They forced him to kiss the hand of
(42:15):
a stray dog. I mean, yeah, that would be like, yeah,
he's kissing a dog. But in the Middle East culture,
when you force someone to kiss a dog.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
It's very disrespectful.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Yeah, it's really disrespectful, and like they're also I read
on the internet that many Afghans reported that, like for example,
in Tehran, they were renting a house or an apartment
or something, and they were living in those apartments and
the landlord reported them to the police. It's like what's
happening in the US. It's something like ice, but it's
(42:46):
Iranian but more brutal. Then the police just came and
took them all. And now the landlords are refusing to
give back the passion money to Afghuns, and many of
them are being forced out with any food, without any
support anything, and especially the women, like I also read
(43:06):
about like a doctor that fled Polybon and he was
in Tehran and now if he goes back, the Tolliban
will definitely kill him because he was like against Tolliban. Yeah,
I mean, it's it's it's a very horrible humanitarian situation.
And the people, like in Baluchistan, they're also suffering. But
(43:27):
I saw many videos and also some of the activists
published lots of footage that they were they were bringing food, water,
I don't know, medicine and things like that on the
on the road to give it to those people who
are going back, and they were offering I don't know
whatever they had. And in Afghanistan there is also happening.
But it's just so crazy because both the regime and
(43:50):
also the anti regime media are trying to portray Afghans
as the problem, just exactly like how the far right
parties in like if they are portraying refugees and migrants
are as the main problem.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, it's a global thing. It happens here in the
US UK.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Yeah, it's it's exactly the same. Yeah, and like unfortunately
the even the Iranian opposition has not been clear. But
again because there is some sort of solidarity that encourage
pollutes and Afghans and also other minorities. It's the minorities
that talk about this. It's the minority groups and organizations
(44:30):
who try to raise awareness over this. Unfortunately, I think
nobody can stop it because they're doing it anyways.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah, and like we shouldn't support an opposition politics and
it's just another ethno. No, Like we see that in
Syria right now, right, Like, yeah, they haven't even changed
the name. We have this revolution, tens of thousands, maybe
one hundreds of thousands of people definitely died to build
something better. We still have the Syrian Arab Republic. Yeah, yeah,
(45:02):
it's maybe the Ala Whites are being persecuted now and
they weren't before, But like that shouldn't matter, right, Like
if we if we're build trying to build something better.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
I mean, there are just remnants of isis. So what
can you expect?
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, it's uh yeah, it's very sad to see,
you know, after after so much killing and dying, I
guess to finish up. I think people in the US
do not get very good coverage of what's happening in
a run, right, Like it said that, as you say,
dominated by monarchist outlets, we tend to have good resources
(45:34):
which allow them to kind of get to the top
of people's feeds or they're getting like press, TV stuff,
right that just like rage straight up regime propaganda. Now,
where can people find like good resources to understand what's
what's happening in a round? Like from the perspective of
you know, the majority of people who just want to
live a free life, and especially like you know, the
(45:58):
women in particularly in a round, right, an extremely difficult
and repressive every the regime dominates every aspect of their life. Like,
where can people find reasonable coverage that achnowledge is there.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Honestly, if I want to talk about media like TV
channels or just media websites, there is no media like
Iranian media that truly reflects what's happening in Iran. There
are like many leftists and also right wing medias from
for example, if I want to go like a very
leftist media called Radio Zamani, they are not really good.
(46:34):
Like then we have Iran International, BBC, Persian Voice of America,
Persian Independent, Persian like there are many many media that
all of these, like I would say the big media,
they are heavily dominated and I would say exploited by
the ultranationalist people. And also there are people who are
(46:56):
related to IRGC and this organization called Naya that is
like the regime's lobby group in the US, and these
individuals that work there, they truly don't reflect what's happening there.
And I mean, it's it's kind of hard because if
people want to understand what's happening, maybe they should read
everything they're posting and then analyze that, hey, this makes
(47:18):
sense and this doesn't. But that just a little bit hard.
But also on the other side, I would suggest that
people should follow more human rights organizations, which again some
of them, if I want, I don't know if it's
okay to say their names, some of them and the
people for example, the Burumant Organization, they did lots of
(47:39):
great work, but recently again they showed some sort of
racism and like censorship against minorities, especially Kurt and people
like Lot and bozs are gone. They are like also
doing some human rights work in the US, and even
people like Massi and all the I would say known activists,
(48:02):
and even here in Germany, they are not truly reflecting
what's happening. They're just focused on the Persian perspective and
they're like they talk about minorities time to time, but
only when it fits into their agendas, into their ideologies
and perspectives. But there are other organizations which I'm working with,
(48:26):
like Hangout Organizations for human rights. Until two thousand, late
twenty twenty three, I guess we were mainly focused on
East Kurdistan, but right now we report human rights violations
from all over Iran, like yeah, but we try our best,
and I think I could say that we are one
of the best when it comes to all these things,
(48:49):
and we don't care about what people think. We just
report what's happening or what happened. And there are other
organizations like Iran Human Rights they're also good. For example,
there is another one called Tawana. They are like a
very big organization, but unfortunately they advocated for the monarchists
(49:09):
again just a few months ago, so it's kind of
hard to see that who is truly on the side
of people. And when you look at the human rights organizations.
I'm not saying this because I'm Kurdish, but this is
what I see and I think it's true. The only
organizations that truly reflect what's happening without caring about people's
(49:31):
backgrounds or ethnicity or whatever. It's our organization hang out
and also like organizations like Curtis on Human Rights Network,
but unfortunately the majority of the others are are really clear.
So for Kurdish issue that I would say definitely hang
out and also on my page Kurtistani people I also
like write a lot of things, and also Kurdish Piece
(49:53):
Institute and Kurtish Center for Studies. They have lots of
other Kurdish journalists and experts that write a lot of
really good articles about the situation there. And if I
want to mention names, I would say Roji Mokiani. She
is like a really great researcher. She lives in Ireland.
There is another professor called Camraan Martin. He also writes
(50:17):
really great analysis on situation and like the things that
people even don't think about. They're writing with so many
different international organizations and institutes. Yeah, there are like these
individuals and activists.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Thank you so much for joining us. That was really
that really helped, I think for people to understand things.
Tell us about your your Kurdistan People page. Where can
they find that on on Instagram?
Speaker 3 (50:43):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me and thank you for
letting me speak. Yeah, I have this page Kurdistani People.
I usually post about all over Kurdistan the things that matter.
Obviously I can't do it all the time, but yeah, yeah,
I post a lot of things. And there are other
pages that are also collaborate with, like Kurtish Activism or
(51:04):
everything about Kurtistan. We're just a group of people who
work together. Obviously, like our organization, I think it's it's
very very important for people to follow and support it.
Hang Out Organization for Human Rights and also Kurtistan Human
Rights Network that's also like another one that you can follow. Yeah,
and also like gay I talked about some names and
(51:27):
individuals and researchers. You can also follow them for more
professional analysis about East Kurtistan or Rochalot.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Yeah. Great, well, thank you Sam for joining us. We
really appreciate your time. Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (51:45):
It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
You can now find sources for It Could Happen.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
You are listed directly in episode descriptions.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Thanks for listening.
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Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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