Ben Sinclair on Teen Wolf

Ben Sinclair is the creator and star of one of Chuck's all-time favorite TV shows, HBO's High Maintenance. Chuck even flew to LA so he could record this in person. Listen in to some serious fanboy action, as they discuss High Maintenance and Ben's movie crush, Teen Wolf! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hey, everybody, welcome to Movie Crush l A edition came
out here everyone, Well, let's be honest. I came out
here to meet Ben Sinclair. I could have done this
one over the phone, but I've had been from High
Maintenance on my list for well since the inception of
the show. I've been bugging HBO and never quite worked out.

(00:46):
But they finally said, hey, he's available. He's going to
be in l a uh and you can do it
over the phone. And I said that's okay, I'll just
come out there because I couldn't resist High Maintenance is Uh,
it's one of my favorite shows. Um ever, really it's
it's high on my list of all time favorite shows.
I was. I was an early adopter, as I told him,
for the web series and I just love that so

(01:09):
so much. And then when it came over to HBO,
it was just great and uh did not lose a step.
It got even better. And I'm so glad that they're
supporting his show and behind it in such a positive way.
And uh just started season three. It's excellent. Uh. He
says that he has high hopes for season four, which
makes me really happy. And they say, not to meet

(01:30):
your heroes everyone. But I disagree because Ben was Uh.
He was great. He was such a nice guy, such
a genuine dude, uh and exactly as you would hope
that he would be. If you're a fan of High
Maintenance and the guy uh and if you know the show,
you know what I'm talking about, the character with no name. Um.
So anyway, Ben and I had to talk about his
about High Maintenance in his career in uh kind of life,

(01:54):
He's he's a bit of a deep thinker, as you
would imagine. Uh. Turns out he listens to stuff you
should know everyone, and that made me happy. He was like, hey,
I know you um and that was super cool. As
was his pick teen Wolf. Um. When it came through
from the PR person that teen Wolf was his pick,
I thought it might have been a joke at first,

(02:15):
but then I realized that it was not a joke
at all. He loves this movie. It was very important
to him as a kid. And as you will hear,
there are many many teen Wolf references peppered throughout High
Maintenance that I never noticed, uh and that are going
to be coming up on this upcoming season that's playing
out right now. So I enjoyed our talk. I enjoyed
watching Teen Wolf and talking about it with him. So

(02:37):
here we go, everyone with Ben Sinclair on teen Wolf. Conan, Yeah,
where you go in? I never heard of him. You've
been on probably right, No, I haven't been on really,
I've been onto Colbert and Seth Myers, but never Coned.
He's a hero. He reminds me of Tin Tin. You know,

(03:02):
I don't know if I like to hear that, but
that's that's what I see. Oh, that's awesome. You know
I didn't. I didn't ever think I was going to
look at you. I had no idea you had such
a beard. I had no idea that you listened to
stuff you should know because, uh, this is the first
time I've ever been legit a little nervous for one
of me. That's interesting. Yeah, dude, I just I watched

(03:25):
the web series, like when it was the web series.
I don't remember who turned me onto it, but um
I got in. I was an early adopter. And you
remind me and my friend Billy, who passed away a
couple of years ago. So there was always this like
there's a show that I love and the guy on
it reminds me of Billy. So that was very special,

(03:48):
especially since he passed away. It's like keeping more special. Well,
I'm I assure you that him and I are probably
the same level of a kind. And it was a
well placed still it was projection. Good dude, Um, where
are you from? I'm from Phoenix, Scottsdale, Okay. Ah. I

(04:08):
know Teen Wolf so well because it was too hot
to play in the summertimes and I would just watch
it over and over and over again. Right, a lot
of movies I did that with. I lived in Yuma
for a year. Yeah, what the hell happened there? Now?
It's a Everyone who knows Arizona always asked that question
as a follow up, because Yuma is a weird place

(04:28):
to move to My sister, my brother in law was
a marine. My sister lived there with him. I had
crushing debt from living in New York and then they
said I was looking for a change. They were like,
why don't you move out here? And I was just
kind of floating around at the time. I wasn't married, like,
no kids or anything. Then now you're married with kids
in Atlanta, married with a daughter in Atlanta. Nice. Yeah,

(04:49):
what's it like living there? It's great? You ever been. No,
I haven't been outside of the airport at all. I'm
figured I'll go for work one day. But yeah, yeah, sure,
a lot of things going on. Yeah, you and that's
you're that's the long haul. You're gonna stay there. Yeah,
Like that's where I'm from. Lived away for a lot
a lot of years, like twentysomething years, and came back

(05:11):
from here. This is where I was living before I
moved to Atlanta, and it's great. Uh does uh you're
the partner and stuff? Does he still smoke cigarettes? I
was worried Josh quit. Josh quit a long time ago.
All right, Yeah, he's worried about that man. You talked
about his eating habits and smoking habits. I was like,

(05:33):
ship man, I don't want this to stop. So I
want to know a little bit before we get into
the movie. I'll budget this out so we give teen
Wolf it's to do. Um, but I gotta talk about
high maintenance and like the transition from Vimeo to HBO,
like what was that? Like? Uh? Will you know? I

(05:57):
The only real experience I have with making something on
that level is with high maintenance or even film production
in general. I've only made content that I was acting
in and that I was editing and making. So it
felt like like middle school, kind of like we were

(06:19):
making them on our own and we were figuring out
what the project was. And we made thirteen of those episodes,
and then Video gave us some money to make six more,
and then we were like, all right, here's like real
not it wasn't real money, but it's something that looks
like real money. Were you guys are getting permitted and
like was it wasn't? It was like half legit. I
would say. I think going to HBO and looking at

(06:42):
all of our paperwork, they were like, WHOA, how did
you do this? We're like, well, Video was trying something
out and they I guess we got very lucky that
nothing bad happened, I guess. But I would say the
HBO move, you know, it was like it's like going
to high school. It really is like going to high
I feel like, but I feel like I'm in the

(07:04):
junior year of high school where I'm like, all right,
I've been here. This is my third year. Hear I
know when to freak out. I feel like there's the
show is not over yet, even though we haven't had
an order yet. But I have a feeling it's not over,
so there's something stuff to look forward to. Just feeling
very secure by this time. But in doing it, it's
how it always has been. We are working in our

(07:26):
little bubble and it's never good enough. I was talking
to Ira Glass about this. They're similar than the stories
are never good enough. It's really hard on yourself kind
of stuff, laboring and if it's not if you laugh
to the forty nine time of watching it, but not
the fiftieth, and that part has to go or wherever.
And I think the first season because of just like

(07:52):
you know, existential stuff layered on top of personal stuff,
layered on top of career stuff. I think I is
just kind of like we wrote every episode and directed
every episode, and I had a bigger part in editing
every episode than I have in the past two HBO seasons.
So I think I was just I was a little

(08:15):
I think I was probably freaked out. I was freaked
out about ah It getting ruined, like everyone else was
probably freaked out. Who was fans from the web series.
Yeah I was worried, Yeah for sure. But the truth
is HBO like not only gives us creative freedom, but
sometimes I'm like hey, hey, we're over here, and then

(08:38):
and then we're like oh yeah, and I'm like how
is this. They're like it's fine, it's good. And I'm
like really and they're like yeah, so they let you
guys do your thing. They really let us do our thing. Truly.
We're we're we're like the little tug boat on that thing,
like we're we we know that we occupy a very
kind of niche CULTI space. It is like audience members

(09:03):
who don't mind doing a little extra work and like
just served up everything. So so I think they, I
think we would compare us to probably kids in the hall.
Like kids in the hall, we're doing their own thing.
Up in Canada. There wasn't like any infrastructure up there
from HBO to like watch over them or show up
on sets. So they just kind of made a bunch

(09:23):
of weird stuff. And I feel like that's the space
we occupy again, and I hope to keep occupying. Yeah.
I I prefer that, Yeah for sure. I Mean that
was the one thing I remember when I read about
I remember reading the announcement and just my wife was
just like shut up about it already, Like I know,

(09:44):
your favorite little web show is not going to be
a real show. And I know you're so proud of
them because I feel like, well, that's what it feels like.
I feel like, especially when you adopt something early like that, um,
you feel like you have a personal stake in it
as a as a viewer, which is silly, but um
like you end up having this weird pride like I
was proud of you guys. Does that make any sense

(10:06):
of that? Man? That's very sweet. But the fact that
it was HBO, I remember thinking like, all right, this,
this isn't gonna suck. It's not gonna get ruined. Um
because it's HBO. Well, we had a deal in effects,
a script deal that would have ruined the show. Yeah,
that would yeah. Yeah, So we you know, it was
a very incremental growth and at a certain point, like

(10:31):
we realized that our power was in saying no over
and over and over and over again until the right
person came along. And when our executive Nina Rosenstein came
and met with us, it definitely was like, and we're
gonna make all We're gonna make not just a pilot
six right, And she's like yeah, and I'm like, and
it's straight to series. No, none of this dancing around

(10:54):
development things. She's like, no, yeah, and it was really cool.
I mean I I I probably could die tomorrow and
have accomplished like more than I thought I would have
ever accomplished of my goals in my life. So I
feel pretty I feel pretty cool about the show. But
also it was created initially to form an artistic community

(11:18):
of We were like, oh, I love this person, and
I know they're a good actor, and I know this
person has funny anecdotes and I know you know. So
we were looking to to create a community and that
that really does exist and friendships come out of high
maintenance and working relationships. And hopefully, I like the word

(11:39):
of mouth quality that makes you proud of your of
if your favorite little show will kind of spread into
like I Pie in the Sky spinoffs, you know what
I mean. Like every episode is like a pilot for
character's life. I would love to see it spread laterally

(11:59):
and have all the people we came up with, uh
keep it going. Yeah, I mean they're definitely UM. I mean,
you guys took it almost like a world building approach.
It feels like UM without being like two structured. But
I remember when I first started seeing um characters popping
up in other episodes in different places in their life. Uh,

(12:21):
then I thought, all right, this is getting really interesting. Yeah,
what happens off screen is so much more interesting to
us than what happens on screen. And that comes even
in our how we write stuff, like we're like, oh, gosh,
how are we gonna do a wedding or believable build
up to a wedding or this or that sounds like
production heavy, And then we're like, hey, what if we

(12:42):
start the whole entire episode after that all happened already,
Everything already happened, and then this is just them dealing
with their being alive after this climax. So that that
temptation to leave the drama addic stuff off screen and
then refer to it is is it It's a cool trick, Yeah,

(13:05):
it is. It's it's certainly cheaper, lowers the bar. Yeah,
but it and also like, um, you're talking about just
not serving up everything for for reviewer. It really Uh,
there is so much that happens off screen and nothing's
ever tied up with a bow, and it's just it
feels like you're peeking in on these stories. Um, it

(13:26):
was never a show about a weed dealer. To me,
it was always a show about New York City, and
then as the more I've watched it, I'm like, no,
it's just a show about human beings. Oh yeah, oh yeah,
and it it's so interesting to think about. I I
think it's weird. I think some of these emotions that

(13:47):
are expressed in it are weird or kind of acidic
or a little bit unnerving, like and uh, I'm always
surprised at how many people are like yeah, I get
at like it's like, don't you don't. I mean I
thought this was me outing myself as like an asshole,
Like no, I'm an asshole. Now it's just so true though,

(14:08):
it's such it's the human condition like every week, um,
and it's like, I mean, it is a New York
showing a way, because it's also shows the truest in
New York that I think I've seen, thanks man, So
there's something to be said for that. I would love
to see this show done in other cities, like you
would love to see it done just because like our

(14:33):
cities are environments like effect us so greatly. Like the
l A version of High Maintenance would be a totally
different show. Totally, totally, totally, but but yes, but same
sense of loneliness. You know, it's really the the whole.
This is such a macro statement, But everything that's wrong

(14:55):
right now is because people don't talk to their proximal
proximally avers the community, actual community, not ideological communities set
up through apps, but like physical sense of community, belongingness.
All of that has bred to this deep pit of
of isolation and depression at general kind of acceptance that

(15:19):
you're you know, you kind of work on yourself capitalist dude,
like you're an island. You can do all of that.
And I think our show is oftentimes addressing how much
we want to connect with people. It's just not it's
just not how things are done anymore in the way
that feels have to have lasting gratifications. Yeah, and the

(15:40):
guy Um himself is such a I mean, he is
the through line, and he seems to wander in and
out of these people's lives when they need him, and
not just for the weed, like that's the conduit for sure,
but it feels like, I mean, even the one guy

(16:01):
who who didn't even smoke, I just wanted the company,
like just one of the sweetest most heartbreaking episodes. Yeah.
So actually I just got a little tingle up my
spine just thinking about it. Yeah, he's so and that
and that the success of that is so largely due
to Michael syl Crichton's performance. And it's just like this

(16:22):
total collection of of Like that apartment that we shot
in was Russell, our manager's apartment. It's like a four
square foot apart right in and Chelsea doesn't live there anymore,
like it was, Uh, that apartment also created that field,
Like it is just the whole collection of all of

(16:42):
these things that you would if you saw a script
in the final product, you would be like, oh wow,
it's not even just improv. It's just like, yeah, I
know he wrote this, but this is the prop we
have and the time of day we have to shoot
it in, So like, why don't we just like shmoke
at also that so that it works with what we

(17:03):
have instead of trying to fit a circle in a square. Yeah.
I mean I've made enough like little short films and
things to know that being nimble like that is so
the key. Yeah. It also makes it makes the script
seem like just like an instruction manual to how to
construct the story maybe depending on It's like when intention

(17:25):
what I want to write meets attention? What do I
have at my disposal? What? What is the actual skill
level of this actor for this for this emotional range? Alright, well,
if you can't make it there, I'll pull it back
and we'll see what we can make. Yeah, it sounds
like a pretty um loving friendly set. It is. It
is for sure, and it's tiring, you know. We are

(17:48):
very what's your schedule? Like, it's like Monday through Friday,
fourteen hour days pretty much, so for how many weeks straight?
Like if we're ten episodes, ten weeks nine episodes, so yeah,
and that's two stories, and each story has like a
couple of locations, so we are it's it's a really

(18:10):
wild puzzle because in the web series it was like, oh,
let's do a weekend. I won't pay you, but it's
only one or two days. And then we did actually
go back and pay everybody for their work on the website.
HBO came around and recast are not recasting? We're trying
to keep it. I mean we didn't. We didn't recast
one person. Why would we We don't. We don't have
someone saying that we have to That was that was

(18:31):
my biggest fear with FX, and then that was one
of the things with HBO. I'm like, we're not recasting anybody. Great. Yeah,
that's great. That's great. Um and and the guy too.
He Uh. I think like at first you had the
first season to get to know him a little bit,
but it was it was there wasn't a lot of

(18:53):
personal stuff going on. And then the cool thing to
see is as the seasons play out, the guys coming
out a little bit more. Uh, with his backstory, it's
teased out. I think just kind of perfectly thanks man,
because like you want to know about him, but also
you don't. Yeah, but also you don't, but then you
sort of do. Like I just started watching season three

(19:14):
and that first episode is so good just to see
some of his roots, um and where he came from.
And uh, I think that makes for a fuller picture.
But you're you're doling it out in the right increments.
I think, Well, I think it's like getting to know somebody.
Like the first you get to know somebody is based
off their superficial charm and charisma the relationship, and then

(19:36):
you care about them a little more and their guard
is dropped, So that would be like when the guy
goes to the hospital and you kind of see that
and then you are rooting for them to get what
they want, which is kind of what we're starting here.
Is like that character is definitely looking for something. I
don't know if he knows what it is, but he's
definitely seeing something more than uh, he's wondering if his call,

(20:01):
if if he's he's met his calling speak yeah, And
seeing that episode, especially with them with the dad and
hearing people describe him about the no judgment, and that
was one of the big things that always stuck with
me about the guy, was just like he's just never
he's just always a kind ear and never judging. I get,

(20:22):
I get. I like that about him. I get frustrated
about that too, because I don't think that's realistic. I
think that like I always I'm always like I always
just want to poke a hole in anybody's illusion because
it's like I would love to be like the guy

(20:42):
all the time. But like if we all had it
all figured out and we're judging anyway, we just wouldn't
be on this earth. We would have passed onto Nirvana
or whatever, Like we all got ship we're trying to
work out, and I've been very excited to kind of
pull some stuff back. I think in this week's episode
he does show a tinge of judgment, which is very

(21:04):
interesting and and in actually an episode that was kind
of inspired by teen Wolf that's coming up to you
see him. You see him actually, but like, oh my god,
like I I don't think he handled that situation the best.
So I'm kind of excited to tease out the fact
that this person is flawed and there are cracks and

(21:28):
that like as much as in the same way that
it's always more interesting to let your imagination fill out
that climax that you start after us talking before about
there's I like to drop just one little inkling that
of character information that that ripples out into your imagination

(21:51):
so that you are kind of understanding the human experience
that you're not it's not always going to work out.
You're not is going to say the right thing or
do the right thing. But that's okay. Yeah, I mean
you got through a lot of restraint, I think, um,
especially like when you were talking about just the deal
that you were making with HBO, and like you knew
you had something valuable, and I think the instinct for

(22:14):
someone making a web show would be to jump at
FFX or whoever. I'm sure you guys had other overtures
and to know, like you you know that was your
We said no so many times. There's so many things.
It's so like powerful. Yeah. Oh, and it's certain when
you know you have something good. No is the password
to yes, and you have to like I also look

(22:35):
at it it like, um, if you're uh, have a
beam of light coming through like a dark room, all
of the negatives, the blackness, all of the darkness, the no, no, no,
this photon is not on. Saying no to all of
those other photons and saying yes only to that stream

(22:55):
of light is what's beautiful about it. It is the
absence and you're and you or you said the word
resistance or to to just accepting everything. Yeah, Like you
want to think of creativity as like this expansive thing,
but at a certain point you have to edit down
and you have to be like no, no, no, no,

(23:16):
yes that otherwise it's all just a blank white screen,
you know. Yeah, that's so cool that they had just
stepped out of the way. They'll let you gus do
your thing because the music and the cinematography and everything
is just so beautiful and I was, and I think
what it did obviously has afforded you, guys, um just
to do more of the same, but like bigger and

(23:38):
better and more beautiful and thanks, maybe pay for a
little more music that you know, he might want to
get the music man because well, because of our budgetary constraints,
I have just been hunting for unknown music that you
can afford. And my that has really led to it

(23:59):
excite deepening of my my musicology that I am. I
hoped to one day be able to. It would be
so cool just to make a show that's like cool
images and cool music, just just like remember that show
like with television. Yeah, I would love to do something
like that. Yeah, that would be cool. Yeah yeah. Well

(24:21):
the choices you guys make, um, just with the cinematography
I think are always um are often unexpected and um like,
how how involved are you and all of it? Still
very involved? I like, I know you're directing now, I
mean we've been directing. We've Katy and I have directed

(24:42):
and written every episode with a few exceptions, up until
season two. Season two was the first season we invited
guest directors in the writer's room to join us, and
I think season two really our work out a lot
better from that collaboration and now, but we still were
a directing couple that season. This season, I direct are

(25:04):
we we are listed as directors on our own, But
if I had to be completely honest, nothing has changed.
So we're still we're still helping each other. And and
it's like, and there is a lot of like, you know,
I'm good at pulling up a button, I'm good at
seeing blocking very well, and like having a bird's eye

(25:25):
view of a room, and and uh even the structure
of a story where she's very detail oriented and uh
and can sense authenticity or a little more intuitively than
I can. So it's pretty cool. We really, we really
help each other out. What was the question that was

(25:46):
before this? Cinematically? Cinematically so our dps. There are three
of them. It's very unusual to have so many dps
on the show. But they all bring something different, and
we pair up stories to we ink two dps who
we think will lend oh that's cool, whole match their
temperament and they'll set them up for success. Yeah. I

(26:07):
love that last shot of the season three episode one
where the camper you know, takes a chow. Yeah, and
just you know, the camper card just keeps going out.
We got stoked about that. Yeah, that was such a
cool shots, such a cool way to do that. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean a lot of times like so that shot
wasn't included in the first assembly. A lot of these

(26:28):
things are like you watch it and you make a
mental note, and I'm in the scene, so I can't
like I don't have a walkie talking to you. Like
that was a good show, you know what I mean,
Like there's the being in it and the way you
felt is all remembered throughout. So in some ways when
it gets cut up between the script supervisor making notes
for the editor and the editor wasn't there. They don't

(26:50):
know that. Like the part of the scene that was
the best was like that hiccup that the actor made
before we were they knew we were rolling or whatever.
You know, there's a lot of going back its correct
in that episode, many great real moments, big time. It's
all hunting for those who cares what we wrote, What
was the most what was the most interesting thing that
happened while we were shooting and let's see if we

(27:11):
can support that with the footage we've got. What's your
favorite part of the process. I do like editing so much,
but that was always my favorite thing too. Yeah, it's
really that is where the movie gets made. And uh,
maybe it's maybe I'm a control freak, but that's where
I feel a lot of control and very much like,

(27:31):
all right, well, this is what we have to work
with and we want to make it good. The rest
of it is like, oh, like thinking about what the
weather is going to do and how I'm going to
have to rewrite everything based on the weather and all
like the production things is like truly takes years off
of your life, all of the worry and trying to

(27:53):
anticipate and get on top of it, Whereas in editing
it's like, well, I need this to be better. Can
we go get it? Can we go make it? Whereas
with filming it's like you can have this, or you
can have this. You can kill this baby, you can
kill this baby. It's in editing too, But yeah, what
what about Like we have a lot of listeners that
you know, make their own shorts and stuff like that,

(28:14):
when and you know what a tough road that is
to ho what like piece of advice would you give
someone when things are going pear shaped and you still
have to like do the scene, like how do you
how do you get rid of that ship? You get
really you get really quiet inside and you just respond

(28:38):
to what do I like right now? And whatever you like?
You try to make more of that happen, and like,
especially for a web short or a show, it's like
you're just catching a vibe. Really, we only have two
to five minutes attention span to watch your short web things,
so I better like it. So whatever is the best,

(29:00):
put that over everything, and the good stuff will grow
from there. Trying to put around trying to make something
work that's not working, just like let it go and
and if there's got to be something that was working,
and then cut everything down around that thing that's working,
and it will look like that's what you wanted to
do the whole time. It's good advice, man. Yeah, Um,

(29:26):
what's ahead for the show? How much can you talk
about that? I just I'm waiting on another season order,
but if it's if we get one, I'm ready to go.
There's a bunch of unused ideas that we haven't gotten
around two that have had some time to cook and
mature a little bit more, and uh, there's people I
want to work with. I'm already talking with actors, so
I'm like, hey, I would love to see you next year.

(29:49):
Identifind talent, trying to think about stories to adapt, maybe
because we've you know, we're running out of tricks, so
it would be it would be cool to this year
maybe break open the idea of taking some of my
favorite short stories writers putting making them into a weed
delivery you know. Interesting, Yeah, that's a cool idea. How

(30:10):
does that work when you're waiting on, uh to know
whether or not you have a season as far as
giving it a satisfying potential series finale, like do you
have to think about that? Like if this I definitely
do I definitely And sometimes like we'll put it like
for this last episode, you'll see it's very that there's like, ah,
this this very emotional feeling at the end, and sometimes

(30:35):
we're like, it seems like it seems like this is
the end with this song, you might not want to
use the song because it seems like the end altogether.
We did that last season two where we're like, this
seems like the end of the show. And I guess
that you want that flexibility. I think I wanted to
feel conclusive no matter what. I keep joking, we're not

(30:55):
going to do this because I've joked about it too much.
But I keep on saying, and then the camera will
pull back, and then there's two moons and then that's
the last shot of the whole whole series. That would
be so great, but we're not going to do it.
I have better ideas than that. Okay, three months, yeah,
three months, all right, we'll move on to teen Wolf.

(31:20):
I could I could do this all day. And I
know you're on a schedule, although I do want to know, um,
and I know you you've teased a little bit more
about the guy's name. Um, I'm happy to never know it. Uh,
but do you know it? You know, I thought I
knew it. I thought I knew it, but uh, it

(31:40):
kind of changes. I kind of think like I have
a front runner that always kind of changes throughout time. Wow,
that's kind of cool. Yeah, yeah, you know, it would
be so dumb if it was Ben, Like it's not
the right name. But it's like there are some family
names that I went through and then my brother took
one of them for his child, and I was like,

(32:00):
freaking j a name like my character after your kid? Now? Um,
so yeah, all right, I was just curious about that
there is a name, but it's it's changed a couple
of times. Okay, cool, alright, teen Wolf is your pick.
I picked teen Wolf. That is your movie crush from
released just seven years I'm sorry, seven weeks after Back

(32:23):
to the Future. It was supposed to it was delayed.
It was delayed because they were supposed to come around
around the same time Back to the Future. Really that
more juice. It kind of took some steam away from
it in Brazil to where the name of teen Wolf
is the boy from the future. But yeah, yeah, they

(32:45):
Back to the Future was really like the the technodrome
of that project. Interesting. It's also funny that, like Michael J.
Fox was the biggest star in the world that year.
Probably yeah, yeah, he he allegedly hated that movie what
teen Wolf? Yeah, he hated it really he thought it

(33:06):
was dumb. It might have been, well, he thought it was.
I know. The directive was, we need something cheap and
fast that we can shoot kind of on a budget
and quickly. I mean, that's my kind of movie. Yeah,
that's that's what I like to do, I guess. Yeah,
there are so many parts of that movie that really
are in my fucking bones, like the give Me a

(33:28):
Keg of beer like that. I was talking with Robbia
are publicity person and she was we were going over
just like that high school party. How you just really
that's how high school is going to be. It's perhaps
the greatest of all high school parties in film. Yeah,
and it was researched really. Yeah. The first of all,

(33:49):
I didn't know still today. It was supposed to take
place in Nebraska. That's where it takes place. And what's
his name? Yeah, exactly what's his name? The dart director
Roger ask her to like interview teens about parties really
because the ship that happens in that parties so organized.
Everyone's having such a good time and and it's like,

(34:09):
all right, we have a whole we have a whole
like set that we're gonna do here. We have games,
very organized game and they like made jello ahead of time,
let it set so they could pour it down her shirt.
It was just incredible. Yeah. Yeah, and then the one
lady who's a hand with the top hat full of names?
What was her deals that she know? I don't know.

(34:31):
I had thought about that, that she was hired, that
was some sort of escort that they hired. But they
all look old. Let's be real, they all look like
a couple. Um. I think like, I watched it today
on the plane, and it may have been maybe the
first time I've seen it since the eighties, I think so,

(34:52):
But watching it, I must have seen it a ton
of times because I was one of those kids who
got HBO. Lived on a very rural dirt road and
when cable TV came to my neck of the woods,
it was a little late, and so MTV and HBO
we're just like constant for me. And you stayed up
at night to watch The Red Shoe Diaries too, probably
well I tried. Yeah, I was very I was slipping

(35:15):
every I was slipping through the TV on at night
and I saw like a boob on a Cinemax show
and then I totally was like, WHOA really brought back
to that time where I stay up late and like
my parents would like move and I would like last channeling. Yeah,
I remember holding my finger on the remote in case
like my parents. I think that is probably one of

(35:35):
the most suburban experience as a young male can have
when HBO is free. Yeah. And we also had the
thing on the cable box where you could scrambled channels
were scrambled and you could touch the button stuff to
try and clear up the picture. Never touched the buttons.
Oh yeah, So like I would go to the Playboy
channel and try and get just like a glimpse of

(35:55):
a partially scrambled breath. How much more sexy is that?
That is wild? More sex season everything that is going on, right, Yeah, Yeah,
the unknown, the design, the want of the want, that
is really the most interesting. Yeah. And when you're like,
now teens don't have sex now, teens are like it's
too much? Is that true? Yeah, there there's less teens

(36:18):
having sex and then in the past because they don't
want to get annihilated by social media or whatever. Well,
I certainly wasn't helping the numbers in the eighties. I
will say that. Uh that was a good one. Nice.
Uh So, Michael J. Fox is the worst basketball player
in history clearly, um, which kind of makes it for

(36:38):
a fun transition. I guess once he becomes a t W. Yeah,
and I and I was thinking about the message of
the movie, which is really like, uh, you know, you
don't need the wolf, just be yourself. But now that
I've dabbled in a little of young in psychology, that

(37:00):
shadow that wolf was himself. He had to accept that
as a part of himself. So it kind of I leave,
I'm a little unsettled now at this point in my
life thinking that you just have to keep that hidden
from people, even if it makes you more popular. Even
though I think he's got to reconcile, it would have

(37:22):
been nice if he you know, I guess he was
a good sportsman for like not putting the advantage over,
but I don't think it did well for like what happened, Well,
now what do you do with the wolf? Now what?
Because everyone knows, Yeah, what's next? Ye? I mean his
dad seemed to have it all worked out. His dad.
We were just talking on the car over Also, his

(37:44):
dad looked like freshly bathed when we first saw him,
and he looked like, yeah, he looked like he had
been a dog that had just been gotten out of
the bathtub. It was a little, uh, poofy and he
had yeah, he was poofy. Yeah, And yeah, the focus
group allegedly this is all IMDb trivia, but they people
laughed for a minute after they saw him with the

(38:06):
glasses on. He looked silly. I guess well, that was
one of the indelible images to me, Like I remember
when I started watching this, I remember two things very
specifically that get me. And then the dad opening up
that door and saying what does he say? I guess
this spares some explanation or something like yah, I suppose
it spar He was great to that guy, that the dad.

(38:29):
He was also a character actor. He was an ALF
I think once, and he was a bad guy in
ALF and I was like, no way, I wouldn't have
to flip me, man, I got flipped Alphill do that, man,
it will flip your ass. Um What was it for
you with this movie? Though? Like how I mean you

(38:49):
were a kid, you were like one or two when
it came out. Yeah, I I I really liked that
transformation scene. I used to go into my bathroom at
night pretending I was wolfing out, like holding my you know,
the back of my palm to the mirror and like

(39:11):
contorting my face so much so like the coming upcoming
episode of the show has this this moment portrayed of
me as a child, like wanting to wolf out so bad. Yeah.
I like that he was good at basketball because that
was like big in our family. We were a basket
because we were like Charles Barkley Era's sons. It was

(39:32):
really happening over in Phoenix, And then I guess I
felt maybe maybe I liked it because I felt non athletic,
and there was this idea that you could just be
better because of something inside you that was latent and
that you didn't know. Maybe I felt like a loner,
but ultimately I just I I liked this idea of popularity,

(39:55):
like he got popular when it was doing it. But
I always felt like I I knew how to like
work a crowd, but ultimately I felt like a chubby
kid who like wasn't good at sports or whatever. So
I had engineered all of these like styles and I
wasn't like styles, but like, you know, I was able
to be some sort of styles as a psychopath. He

(40:16):
has a psychopath, you know I didn't have because we
taped it off of TV and that was the version
I watched. I missed some scenes, like when he's in
this garage and he says like, he's looking for the weed. Yeah,
he's looking for the weed. I didn't see that until
I was like twenty twenty in my twenties. I was like,
I was like, what the fund is this when it

(40:37):
came on whatever version I was watching. Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
I think i'd forgotten about that scene or maybe I
didn't get and they said he's fag or something. It's
not not a fag. It's like what, I know what? Anyway,
So that was cut out of the TV version, I guess,
and I'm glad, and I'm glad that they did cut
it out because they knew that you're not you to

(41:00):
treat gay people like that, you talk about people like that,
They didn't know. They just didn't want to see the weed.
But oh, that's right because it was in that scene,
wasn't it. Another thing really jumped out at me was
with greater power comes a greater responsibility. Yeah, he says
that line. Yeah, And the the IMDb it says that

(41:20):
he the guy was a spiderman, a comic book fan.
One of the writers. Really, so they lifted that from
the contentional lift. Yeah, wow, because it's hard to get
anyone to like online to admit that this used it
not first, but at least on screen doesn't want to
admit it. Well, I mean, in any time you do
a search like that, it all comes up Spider Man.

(41:41):
You have to really drill down and specified teen Wolf
to get any credit out of that line coming out
of this movie. I mean I probably could. I don't
know if I could recite every line from this movie,
but I can. I can do the in notation, intonation
and everybody's voice for every line. I don't know if
I'll get the words, but I can. You don't. You're

(42:03):
not twenty one. You don't get damn beer. That guy
was great. Yeah, he was so angry at these children
trying to buy beer. Um. You want to hear something
cool is Matt Adler, who plays Louis. He listens to
stuff you should Know and send us an email a

(42:23):
few months ago and now listens to movie crush. So
I emailed him today. I got a little surprise for you.
I have a surprise for Lewis. After I emailed then,
I said, by the way, I said, uh, you'll be
glad to know that Ben Sinclaire High Maintenance picked your movie.
And he emailed back and said, well, we've all got problems.

(42:44):
I hope you won't hold it against him. And then
I said, and by the way I said, I just
finished it again. I said, Louis is the only character
in that movie who has a reasonable reaction to the
fact that there is a wolf boy. And I said,
and their their ship has never worked out. That little
character arc is never resolved. And it really bugged me
when I was watching. It bugged you. You cannot see

(43:07):
it resolved that they had a problem. That so Robbie
are publicist is sitting over here or at PR at HBO.
I shouldn't say our publicist, that's not correct, but the
p R and HBO. She told me that she had
a crush on Lewis because he was being reasonable, because
he was like, he's the only one who is like,
what's going on with you man? Because everyone gets on

(43:30):
the tw train so unreasonably. But that but that that
was there was a crush based on that that he
was just he was just being a character actor and
in a movie that everybody was shipping on and he
opened up I'm not gonna say she opened up a
woman's heart to to how it could be the reason

(43:52):
a reasonable man who just doesn't go with the height. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Well I told him it bothered me that that arc,
that character was never closed, and he said it's true.
He said, it's one of the great unanswered questions in
my long and story career. Or and this is possible.
No one cared. Sadly, I think they were planning sequel
with Lewis and Scott. I'm still waiting. I would I

(44:13):
would love two hours ago. I would love to see
I would love to see Louis is like there's like
the teen Wolf, and then if you trail off with Louis,
it's like ordinary people or whatever, and he's just like
a very He's just having a really hard time, right,
he's got his own chip going. They don't have Prozact
here if he's just got to deal with it. For
Lewis just a kid in Nebraska, I know, man with

(44:36):
all the palm trees. Um. Did you see the sequel?
Yeah it was Scott, No, just justin Scott Bayo but no,
Justin Bateman. Yeah that's a big deaf Yeah yeah. And
and the style has changed too, was really yeah they
changed his name style still you know his name styles
and the style is his name still styles in the

(44:56):
MTV show or whatever it is. So the new version
you've seen the TV thing. You know, my my brother
Daniel wrote for the first season. Really, we were like
die hard fans team Wolf together and he wrote for
the first season. Yeah, so this really when you pick this,
this is like, this is like it's it actually hurt
my feelings that all of these people associated with they're

(45:18):
saying how shitty it is because they just don't know,
like they The Transformation song was my phone ring for
a long time. Yeah, and Miles Goodman like I still
put on the YouTube of that the Transformation song, the
song from the end credits, and there's, uh, the booth song.

(45:42):
I really like that booth song. We have a we
have a salute to the booth scene also, Yeah, coming up, man,
I'm gonna like totally be picking apart all these references. Now. Yeah,
there was one scene where I'm like, I wanted to
look exactly like that, and they're like, well, there's not
a tree here, it's for you to grabbed the branch
tree there, And then we didn't even put because the branch. Yeah,

(46:05):
I totally noticed that move when he car turns around.
So we cut it out because it's really weird obviously,
but but yeah, they didn't have like a grip off
camera just holding like the branch already. That's pretty much
what it was, Just like a shitty home depot plant
that I just put in the middle of this park path. Essentially,
it didn't work out of place. Yeah, oh that's funny. Boof,

(46:28):
she's the best. I mean, this movie is just the
quintessential eighties movie and that like you had the understanding father,
single parent, had the principle, the shitty principle that gets
his in the end. Um, you had the the beautiful
girl that of course is with the dick um and
the girl that you should be with, which is Boof.

(46:49):
It's like all these great eighties tropes, um kind of
perfectly placed. But uh, Boof is just so lovable and like,
uh it's true. They are so fairly aggressive of you know.
Uh so I watched that sidewalk scene a lot because
I had to to to restage it. And right, you know,

(47:12):
she's she's not she's not the most dynamic actress I've
ever seen, but she's really given it all she's got
and in a in a in a way that's like
nuanced in her hands are in her Everyone's hands are
in their pockets the whole time. Yeah, everyone's hands are
in their pockets. What's going on? Yeah? Yeah, but I
appreciated that it could have been like everyone's like, oh

(47:34):
so bad. It could have been so much worse. Guys,
I would say most of the movies that come out
now are worse than teen War truly, Yeah, I would
agree with that. Actually, Um, she's lovable though, Like that
was the girl that I would have fallen for in
high school? Why? Oh? I think because she was nice
and not threatening. Um, I probably would have liked from

(47:58):
afar And in fact, I sure, I'm sure I did.
Looked at the like the most beautiful girl in school. Um,
but I would never like, I mean, he straight a
bastard out kind of like right off the bat, ye
asked if he could drive her to the yeah and
then to the party. Uh, And I was not nearly
that aggressive. Yeah, I was way too scared for something

(48:19):
like that. Well, we had to see him try and fail. Yeah,
I guess that's true. I you know, it's so it's
it's I wish that we could three dimensionalize all those cares.
I wish we could make the the Pamela. I wish
we could fill her out a little bit more. I
don't think it's fair that she's just like the the

(48:41):
jerky hot girl, you know. I would like to see
why styles as a sociopath and Lewis is. Yeah. I
don't know they did the right thing with the the
MTV show. They could have gone back and delved way deeper. Yeah,
I didn't see any of that. Was it a comedy
or was it it's like, you know, slick, It's like

(49:03):
really slick. It's like Twilight sort of thing. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah,
that's not the right move. Um, let me see. I'm
trying to see if there any big scenes that stood
out that The Big Dance is kind of fun with
a thriller rip off. It's a big time thriller rip off.
Would I hope? I wonder if they thought that was
going to be a thing. There's all these Yeah, there's

(49:26):
all these comments about Michael J. Fox not being like
a good dancer and not being good at basketball and
stuff like that that when you read them now with hindsight,
you're like, don't talk about that. Yeah, exactly, you can
bring that up. It's not cool. Yeah, he was probably
doing the best he kid, but he does win the
game as Scott. Yeah, and then one of the best
songs come up. Uh. I like that last song too. Yeah,

(49:49):
and everything's in slow motion, and Robbia let me know
that there is a guy on the left side. What
is in the left side of the screen. The right
side of screen is the guy on the left side
with his fly undone. He's got his fly really and done,
and he pulls his fly up in slow motion. Yeah.
So I saw that on the internet and then watched
it today and it's fully They're like and it and

(50:09):
so prominent is it? Well? I I watched it a
bunch of times in a row, just to like see
if I could tell his flies way open. And it's
so prominent on the screen that it's very bizarre. And
then he even sort of like catches it himself and
zips it up real quick. But it's on like the

(50:30):
freeze frame of the last shot of the movie. Just
such a strange thing to get by the edit. I
gotta watch this now. Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool.
It's like a nice kiddie take off your clothes. Oh yeah,
someone just told me about that. You don't know if
a nice kiddie take off your clothes. No, we just
talked about that on the on the show If you
want Sex in the Dust and Aladdin? Oh no, Lion

(50:52):
King when they he plops down and then all of
the dander spells out sex. I just saw that movie
for the first time yesterday. What's going on with your movie?
Cue right now? Bro? What do you mean the Lion
King and teen Wolf? Like having a baby or something?
What's going on? You picked teen Wolf? Alright? Uh? My
daughter's three and a half, Like, she had never seen

(51:14):
The Lion King and I hadn't, so I was like,
why don't we watch this? It was really sad. Yeah,
and it bothered her. Yeah, I know it's a troubling situation.
It was. But so you're saying when they it's Hamlet,
you know it's Hamlet. She didn't. Yeah, she didn't have
that understake. Um, So what you're saying when they put
the pall down and release it, it spells out the
word sex in the dust. There's one situation where I

(51:39):
guess Simba after some as an adult, after he doesn't
know whether to go back or not, he like plops
down and some dander goes up and it spells out sex.
And then there's the ladd in one with nice girls
take off their clothes. And then there's the priest popping
a boner in the wedding and mermaid when he's almost

(52:04):
about to marry Ursula. There's like that little bishop Bishop
they have like his little his chance, Yeah, his little
Bishop tense. Wow, why those dizzy animators? What's up with that? Ums?
When I lived here, I went to the vet one
time and Jonathan Taylor Thomas was in the vet picking

(52:25):
up his cat whose name was Simba. No when this
had to been like nine eight dish. Oh wow, you
were here. Wow? You know those l a things like
you see people like when I bought not bought, When
I found my kitten and took my kitten to the

(52:46):
vet for the first time. Uh, I went to write
a check and Tim Curry held my kitten while I
wrote the check as well. So I was going to
like the veterinary of the stars. After this, I'll tell
you my dark timur story. Okay, all right, well let's

(53:09):
finish with five questions then, because I'll pull up that
thing and show you the guy in the stance with
this flying done and you can tell me that story
and we'll get you out of here for Conan. Oh yeah,
Tintin first movie you remember seeing in the theater? I
think I remember seeing the scene in Dirty Dancing where

(53:36):
they were it was raining. I remember a raining scene
in Dirty Dancing. And that's your first movie, you think.
I don't think it was my first, but that was
early memory of seeing something. What year was that? Eight
sight five? I don't know, I got it. We'll see.
I'm not sure. Yeah, first R rated movie you saw?
I Oh god, it's tutsie eat rated art. No? Probably not. No, Uh,

(54:04):
I can tell you The first movie I had a
sexual feeling about was Pacific Heights with Michael Keaton. I
remember there was a boob that was in blue light
and that I was lying down on the ground in
front of the TV, my whole family behind me, and

(54:26):
then I felt aroused and that was the first time
that happened. And were you like I could use another pillow? Mom? No,
I kept it to myself for thirty years. Happy to
break that on the show. Will you walk out of
a bad movie or do you stick around? Uh? I

(54:49):
will now walk out of a bad movie unless it's
a premiere and the person is there awkward. Yeah, but
I didn't used to because I was cheap skate, right.
I walked out of that that last Chris Farley Westward
ho or whatever. That's the one movie I walked out

(55:10):
him and Michael, the one with John Travolta where he
plays an angel. I walked back. I had another guest
that walked out of the Chris Farley movie really that
same one, yes, because it's terrible. It depressed him to
see Chris Farley, like because he wasn't looking great and
it was just like sad. This last last movie. Yeah,

(55:30):
I can't remember that was though, um let me see
here a number four I tailored to the guests, so
let me see. All right, Since you love editing, what
what is your what's your favorite editing in a film?
Is the transformation sequence? Yeah, it's unforgettable. It's unforgettable. The

(55:50):
basketball editing is terrible, like their basketball game and like
what's going on in the game. It's really hard to follow. Yeah,
but yeah, it's told that transformation scene is completely unforgettable. Yeah,
it's best editing in a movie down probably in a
movie in any movie. Oh, best editing in any movie,

(56:14):
asked me, Oh, that's why I thought it was the
teen Wolf transformation scene. Best editing in any movie, you know,
the best edited film? Like, what's your favorite editing in
any movie ever? Gosh, it's such a tough one, man,
I haven't even thought about it. I remember going to
ask myself the question, you know, I would at first,
I think it's probably this is not the answer. But

(56:36):
Fight Club was edited very well. That movie has really
brought a new kind of cinematic quality to filmmaking. S
The way it was edited affected you greatly, not just
like the c g I elements or whatever, but just
like the pacing of it was really something. I also

(56:57):
think this, but I was really struck by romas and
editing because there was just so many, so fewer cuts then.
I'm used to what's going on nowadays and these long,
long long shots, So I guess their lack of editing
was very impressive to me. Yeah, no, that's great movie.
I don't know how he pulls off some of the

(57:17):
shots amazing, Like, not for one moment did I feel
like I was watching a movie exactly for sure, Like
that there was someone off camera with like a spritzer
bottle for the actors or yeah, it just seems so real.
I couldn't believe it. And then finally movie going one
on one, what's your theater rituals? When you go to
the movies? Where do you sit? You? You know? I

(57:45):
I like the first half of a diet coke. I
like the first half of a diet soda. And then, uh,
you know, it depends on how dysmorphic I am at
the moment, Like I'll probably I almost never mess with candy,
never candy popcorn. Probably every other time I buy my

(58:09):
own food sometimes I going with that. That was my
family used to bring in like soda cans to movies
and pretend to sneeze and open them while you would. Yeah. Yeah,
and uh, what do you say? I sit, try to
sit in the middle. But you know, I'm not good

(58:32):
at making it on time. That is always the thing.
I'm always rushing into the theater. Got you? Yeah? All right,
good stuff, man? Yeah, this is good. Thanks Jock, Yeah,
thanks a lot. Yeah. Charles wide Bryant, all right, everybody,

(58:52):
I hope you enjoyed that. Mr Ben Sinclair of HBO's
High Maintenance, Uh, talking about teen Wolf is everything I
thought it would be. I wish we had more time.
That's the one thing about these is uh, when it's
a PR setup, it's usually like in and out in
an hour. He had to go to Conan, so I
get it, but I could have talked for an hour
just about high maintenance in that process. Such a good show. Everyone.

(59:14):
If you're not watching it, you're missing out really really
wonderful stuff. So I hope you dug it. And until
next time, maybe try and be more like the guy.
Be nice, don't judge people. Movie Crush is produced, engineered, edited,

(59:38):
and soundtracked by Noel Brown and Ramsey Hunt at How
Stuff Work Studios, Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia,