Filmmaker Series: Adam Pranica on Magnolia

Chuck and Adam Pranica continue their Paul Thomas Anderson series with the 1999 epic drama Magnolia.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.

(00:29):
Hey Everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush. Friday Interview Edition,
Long Distance Love Affair Edition with Adam Pranica Hi, Adam Hi,
Adam of Friendly Fire the War Movie Podcast and he
does with Ben Harrison and John Roderick, The Maximum Network
and uh Greatest Gin, Greatest Discovery? What else? Uh? Those are?

(00:51):
Those are the three at the moment. But you know,
now that we have all this time, choke like, I mean,
why not add another show? Another two shows? Even Greatest Virus?
What else are we going to do? Exactly? So Adam
and I chatted for about fifteen or twenty minutes before
we got going here because you, I don't know if

(01:14):
I'm even allowed to say this stuff, but you've just
moved from Seattle to Los Angeles. I did. Yeah. Look,
I'm I'm an open book to you and all of
your listeners. I feel like this is a very safe space. Well,
you heard COVID nineteen was coming to Seattle, and so
you're like, let's get the funk out of here. Yeah,
what a what a strange bit of business to leave

(01:37):
at exactly the right time. Yeah, But also it's very
me to have it follow me everywhere the way that
it has. So you moved to the safe little hamlet
of Los Angeles, that's right, Yeah, where I can be alone. Finally,
ironically you are. That's so funny how that works, right,
Uh yeah, I was just kidding everyone. He did not

(01:58):
move for that reason. But you were in l A. Now,
so you and Ben are in the same city, whereas
you and John Roderick were in the same city before.
So are you and been going to record together? I
mean we're in the same city in the sense that
like there are there are eight l A S and
Ben lives in one and I live in another. And
tell you what, before things really locked down, that drive

(02:22):
to Ben's place was a delight. It was. It was
twenty five minutes of of no traffic driving. I mean
I never I never really got the full l A experience.
Once I got here. It was disappointing where things already
kind of slowing down. Yeah, yeah, the drawdown was in
process when we were recording together, and we had to

(02:45):
record together because when I got here, my entire studios
in boxes and we had no way to make the
show unless I went over. So that was when it
ended up happening for a couple of weeks, and then
your buddy I did yeah and that, and now I don't,
which is probably for the best, right for the best,

(03:05):
right now. But luckily we're in an industry and a
medium that you don't need, a crew, you don't need.
We've got the gear. We're finally I mean, I made
a post on the movie crush page when I set
this should be up down here. I was like, guys,
twelve years in, I'm finally the old white guy recording
a podcast in his basement. I know we're finally here.
I mean, we're all those people who laughed at us

(03:27):
for turning podcast into a career. Who's laughing Now we
are laughing and coughing, laughing and coughing. Oh boy. It
is a weird time. But that's kind of the cool
thing though, at least with us. We do these remotely anyway.
So I'm just gonna you know, you're gonna be on
more than you probably want to be over the next

(03:48):
couple of months, I hope. So I hope this ends
up being my fourth show, like like you and I
should spend something off check. I don't know what it is,
but I'm game. I'm totally in. How about I don't
know something we know nothing about? Huh and got you
here in? I love it? Uh So do you want

(04:10):
to plug any any like recent episodes of friendly Fire
or anything. I'm kind of behind on you guys because
I've been obsessed with the Ackerman r M podcast. But
that's a great show. Yeah. But which which is cool
because I've got like a ton of friendly Fires that
I can binge on now. I mean, I feel like
we had some really like we had Lawrence of Arabia drop.

(04:31):
I don't know when when this episode a movie crush
is going to come out, but tomorrow. Great, that's how
close we're playing it to the best of you here. Wow,
that you are a terrifying amount of on top of
your schedule. It's great. Oh yeah, so Lawrence of Arabia
has been out for a couple of weeks. What a
fucking great movie. I did that on this show remotely, unfortunately.

(04:55):
But I had had what's his name the director, geez
this already, David Lean Yeah, I had David Lean on now,
I had good guests, had Chris Whit's the director, Chris Whites.
That was not the director of Lawrence of Arabia that

(05:16):
No No, No, No Whites has picked Lawrence of Arabia.
So I've still not met him in person, but we
had a great hour long chat about it. I bet
it's I mean, it's a meal of a movie, a
lot like Magnolia is. And I am I am ashamed
to say check that it was my first time watching

(05:36):
it too. Yeah it's don't feel bad. It's one of
those films that that film lovers hold in such high
regard that I that at almost it was like it
was like holding two magnets against each other that were
that were pushing each other away. Like I like, I
knew it's significant and I know I love film, but

(05:58):
I was almost saving it for a I'm in my
life that that I needed it. Two magnets. One is
Lawrence of Arabia, one is Adam Franica. Yeah, they cannot
get together. We're flipping those magnets around. They're they're repulsive. Yeah, man,
it was quite a movie, and I think maybe you
and I should try and make a point to find

(06:19):
out where it's playing on a big screen one day,
because I'm taking nothing for granted now with seeing friends
like I will fly to a city. Let's I will
fly to Chicago to meet you there to see a
goddamn movie. I would love nothing more than that. Once
once they open up the movie theaters, I'm looking forward
to sitting six seats away from you and uh and

(06:42):
enjoying the hell out of that movie the way it
was meant to be seen. Unbelievable. Yeah, well, I gotta
listen to that one soon. Then. That sounds awesome. And
I saw something else, someone on your because I'm a
member of your Facebook group. They were you are and
I'm not. That's great, None of you guys are. I
don't interact. I just like John is John Roderick's remember

(07:03):
of that Facebook group and he goes in there and
I've seen him post only does his fight with people.
I know that's his way, the Roderick way. When this
whole thing broke out in Seattle, I texted he and
Ken Jennings and was just making sure everyone was safe,
and Ken was kind of talking back and forth, and
then John jumped in late and just like totally burned

(07:26):
Ken out of nowhere. And I was like, good to
see Roderick's still bringing the Roderick. Yeah, I mean he
can be no other way. Uh, I mean we we
don't have a plan for losing Roderick, and I hope
we never have to think about that. I mean, friendly
fire would cease to exist. Oh come on, man, I

(07:47):
mean there's no way we're doing that show with Jason Finn.
I can tell you that right now. I feel like
I could step in there. You know you're talking to
me right I'm in the room. Yeah, I can. I'm
looking right at you. I know I shaved my head.
You like that. I Um, I was actually looking at
it with some envy because I am uh, I'm about
I've got a little bit of a page boy going.

(08:08):
I think I think it's going to get pretty Michael
Landon e here in another two weeks, and I need
to I need to embrace the flitting, putting two fists
in the back of my head and just sort of
like pulling it out and like embracing, embracing the curl down. Dude.
I think during this sequestration time, like there's a couple

(08:31):
of ways to go. You can you can go Uni bomber,
or you can you can just shave everything. And that's
kind of where I'm at because I got the whole thing. Well, yeah,
up stairs and down yeah, I mean it gets Muggie
in Atlanta. Oh good lord. So we're drinking tonight everyone,
it's pm Atlanta time. That should explain a lot for

(08:54):
the night before we're releasing this. I'm drinking uh red wine.
I'm drinking uh delicious cabernet called sexual Chocolate is just
oh man, it's so good. And the wine maker I
can't remember his name. He's really got a good sense
of humor. It's kind of a fun label. But what
are you drinking? I'm drinking a glass of High West

(09:17):
whiskey with a with a couple of ice cubes in it.
I know that might be against whiskey code, but I
like my drinks cold. Well, before we get going to Magnolia,
I do have a couple of other things I want
to talk about. Um. Everyone is like, there's like twenty
people that still love me talking about Red Dead Redemption too.

(09:38):
And the other movie crushers are probably sick of this.
But I just learned that you played because someone on
the movie crush page said you need to hook up
with Pranica. Yeah, we really need to go out. We
need to posse up now, how how do you do this?
How do you posse up? Well, it hasn't worked very
well for me in the past, but I can tell
you that that you and I, if we chose to

(10:00):
do it, we could go online and play Red Dead
Open World and and like go on missions and stuff
like like it's just you and me. Oh no, Unfortunately
it would not be just you and me. I think
a bunch of fucking gamer assholes. I think that's the problem.
I don't know if you can while your your internet

(10:22):
garden in that game in such a way that it
could just be the people that you know and like
it should be that way if it's not. But the
last time I tried this was many months ago. The
last time I played Red Dead was many months ago,
and it was a fucking riot of friends getting shot
at and horses dying and all the stuff you love

(10:44):
about that game. My my one question for you, because
I just finished it like two or three weeks ago, Um,
what was the dumbest thing you ever did in that game?
Like the biggest mistake, dumbest ship head move that you
ever had happened. I still think about the death of

(11:04):
my original horse, genuine was the best horse. Yeah, and
I can't figure out, Like the mechanics of the game
are still totally inscrutable to me. So, like, I know,
temporary horses pop up and you can own them and
then you can like stable them and stuff. I lost

(11:27):
a couple though, that I liked, so I'm not quite
sure about that either. I feel like I'm living with
the ghosts of these horses because I see them on
the map and then I go to them, and then
and then it's not them at all. It's some different
replacement horse, and it's heartbreaking every time to get my
hopes up for for the ghost of horses past. Yeah,

(11:47):
I had um this beautiful spotted Palomino that I loved,
It's a nice yeah, and stabled it and like, I
don't know that there may be something in how you
die or when you die, but like she kind of
just disappeared. But you know, I went and found that, um,
the fucking white uh what's it called? The Arabian. I

(12:12):
spent two days trying to find And that's a good time.
That's time well spent. I haven't I haven't, I haven't
thought to do that, but that's amazing. Was that a
good riding horse? Yeah, there's like one area where it
hangs out up in the West Elizabeth where it's all
cold and mountaine. I'm not really good with the lasso.
You gotta you gotta like call the horse and now

(12:34):
you can just creep over very slowly and calm it
down and pat it and pat it, and then eventually
you hop on and it bucks you, and then you
just do that a bunch until you've got it. I
gotta admit I am I'm pretty I'm pretty obsessed with
my uniform and like assembling neat like like I'm wearing

(12:55):
a Civil War hat for some reason. I've got I've
got like white lead her gloves. No one should wear
leather gloves in the Emily. I'm sure Lane too like
made fun of me a lot for how much care
I put into my my hair, facial hair in my clothing. Yep. There,
you cannot have enough fringe in red dead redemption, like

(13:18):
fringe to the ground is what I think you need
to have. Well, what happened to genuine? How did you
kill that horse? Train? Cliff? I rode off a cliff, obviously,
I feel like that's that's how all of my horses die,
is a cliff accident, and it's so. The thing about
riding a horse off of a cliff, as I'm sure
you know, is that it takes a long time. You live,

(13:41):
You live with the bouncing, the bouncing and the rolling,
and then like finally the horse falls into the river
that's obviously at the bottom of the cliff, and you're
in the river and you both slowly die. It's It's bad.
It's a really sad scene. And I'm not that type
of I who will like save his game all the

(14:03):
time in order to go back and like use a
use a saved version of the game where Genuine is
still alive. I like, I like to play it. I
like to play it real, like we're death actually as stakes.
So no, totally, except for the fact that you can't
die as much as it hurts, Genuine is dead forever.

(14:24):
Oh that sucks. The dumbest thing I ever did was
I asked, well, I did a few things that Emily
just every time she would watch me play like she
was reading a magazine. Let me ask you, this is
she watching you play all the time? Because he because
my wife hates it. She will not watch She loved
watching Skyrim, she hates watching Red did. Now. Emily kind

(14:44):
of enjoyed it because it was pretty and it was
you know, it's very beautiful game out in nature like that.
But every time she watched I would funk up and
do dumb things and she would just laugh at me,
and it feels good. Oh god. Um. The dumbest I
ever did that was not in front of her. I
accidentally pulled a gun on a train and it was
one of the things where I put it right back

(15:05):
and I was like, why is it there a button
where you can go my bad? Just kidding. Yeah, oh dude,
it sucked everything up. I was toasted. I really wish
the gambling metrics were more substantial in that game, because
I feel like I could go into Red Dead and
play poker for four hours if it were actually good.
I bet that you played a lot of cards, didn't you,

(15:26):
And and the stakes are too low and the games yeah, yeah,
I want to play a high stakes game in Red Dead,
and to my knowledge, one doesn't exist. I don't think so. Man,
you get in there and everyone's got like seven dollars. Yeah,
that's not even worth the time. But I did play
a little bit of cards. It's kind of fun. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,

(15:48):
it's a fun game. I got to get back into it.
I'll tell you off air what I did after I
finished the game, because it's a little disturbing, and I
don't want people to think of me that way. All right,
I will think of you that way. Thanks, I don't mind.
Thanks for trusting me with that knowledge. You already know
who I am. Um. And the other thing I wanted
to talk about two was I'm sure you got the

(16:11):
news today that Top Gun Maverick has been postponed to
the end of the year. I understand it, which we're
both sad about. It does make me very sad. Yeah,
you and I were pretty pumped about that movie. You
and I were talking about how how we're predicting that
this thing will be cyclical in a way that that

(16:32):
people might be going out and then oh we're we're
told to go back in again. Yeah. I wonder if
we ever get to the point where these movies are
released for video on demand, because they have to be
like how long on the on the shelf? Like if
we're in, if we're in a bad cycle in December?

(16:53):
I mean, do you think about making a video on
demand and you pay your ten dollars and you just
get it on iTunes. Is that a thing? Yeah, I
mean they've already done that a little bit. They released
that dumb Well, I say it's dumb. It might have
been all right, that Invisible Man movie, uh, for twenty
dollar for twenty dollar rental, with the thought that, like, hey,

(17:15):
it's cheaper than taking a date to a movie, and
we gotta make a little bit of money back on
this thing. So I think there's gonna be a lot
of adapting going on over the next year, man, with
stuff like that, Like studios can't sit around forever. Man. Yeah, yeah,
with with money on the shelf. Really, it's what they've got.
You know, you were talking about meeting up in a

(17:37):
city to see a movie. It feels like top Gun
would be a great candidate for that. Let's try to
make that happen. Yeah, we'll meet up in in Miramar
and uh perfect. I mean that's just a short drive
for me. You're doing all the work. That's not fair.

(17:59):
All right, Well, let's talk about Magnolia. This is our
obviously the continuation of our our pt Anderson series that
we're doing. Um. I know that you know a lot
of this stuff, but for the benefit of the listener.
That was I read a little bit of the trivia
and after Boogie Nights. Uh. He had a lot of

(18:20):
currency in Hollywood, such that Michael de Luca, executive, big
big shot executive back then, came along and said, I
don't need to read a word. You have final cut
and carte blanche for whatever you want to do next.
And this was what he made. It's insane to think
about anyone getting that in the late nineties, but it

(18:45):
makes sense in his twenties still, you know, he was
like late twenties when he made this one. I really
love that Paul Thomas Anderson had the wherewithal to not
be like I feel I feel like a lot of
people are like this. They're like, oh, really, that's really nice.
You don't have to do like like, let's work collaboratively
on this on this project. But that he had the
wherewithal to go like, I know, this is rare. Are

(19:09):
no one gets this deal. I'm going to make exactly
the movie I want to make, and I'm gonna have
no one give me notes. That's got to be the ultimate.
Oh totally, and he said, I think he said soon
after he made it as a as a twenty nine
or thirty year old whenever it was released that he

(19:29):
said it was, this is the best movie that I'll
ever make, for better or for worse. And then a
couple of years ago and an A M A. And
then again on Mark Marin they're like, well, what do
you think now or what would you say to yourself,
the young you about Magnolian He said, I would tell
myself to chill the funk out and cut twenty minutes.

(19:51):
So that's his take looking back on it, that it
is a movie that it's twenty nine year old would make,
like Boogie Knights was a movie a twenty five year
old would make. I think that's a great point. I
this was. This feels like it was the first film
I ever saw that made me feel smart as a filmgoer,

(20:13):
Like what year was this? So yeah, I mean the
late nineties were chock full of my favorite films ever,
but this was this is when I had started going
to college and taking film studies classes, and then this
drops in a theater and I just felt uniquely ready

(20:37):
to see something like this and feel like it was
for me. Yeah, I didn't know movies like this could
be made in a you know, by someone modern and
I'm saying modern at the time that I saw it,
you know, it was it was really significant like that.
But I mean, maybe we can save this for the
end of the show. But like, what twenty minutes would

(20:59):
you cut? It feels like you either cut an hour
of this film or you cut nothing. Well, yeah, I
mean you could make little trims throughout the whole thing
to get it down ten to twenty minutes maybe, or
you could cut an entire well, it's hard to cut
a subplot because they're also intertwined. Yeah, Bloom was cut

(21:23):
out entirely. Tell me about that he played worm. I
did not know that. I knew that the I knew
that the rap was written by Fiona Apple. Yeah the wrap. Yeah, yeah,
I did not know that that was Orlando Bloom. That's interesting.

(21:45):
Wait Orlando Bloom. Orlando Bloom, right? Who is he? Was
he the Pirates of the Caribbean guy Lego Less? Oh no, no, no,
not Orlando Bloom. I was going to say that would
that would be interesting? Cat saying what a dumb It
was at the twenty minute mark that the whisker Orlando

(22:07):
Orlando Jones. Of course, Orlando Jones. Yeah, that is that
is casting that makes more sense. Yeah. Yeah, so he
got Orlando Jones got cut out whole cloth and various
other things, like you know, they cut some of T. J. Mackie,
like they had scenes of him out in the wild

(22:28):
like wooing women and betting women. Uh, and some I
think some other stuff was cut that. You know, it
was probably like a four and a half hour movie
until he got down to what like three ten I think. Yeah,
I mean this is a big meal of a film.
This is this is appetizer, main, salad and dessert. Like

(22:51):
it's it's so much to take on and it's not
a film that that I believe is diminished by taking
it down and horses like that. Like I think you
could pick it up and set it down, Like I
don't think you need to do it all in one
go to get what you need to get out of it.
And I and I do get a lot out of
this film every time I see it. Yeah, I haven't

(23:14):
seen it in a really long time. And this is
a movie that I loved back then. Like I bought
the soundtrack. Obviously we'll talk about Amy Man. Obviously. Did
you get the score? I did not get the score.
I got the score. Did you really wow? John Brian? Yeah,
So I got business the soundtrack, and I got the

(23:35):
I bought the screenplay, like the book edition screenplay. I
have it too that that hard bound book is on
my bookshelf right now. Yeah, And it was because it
was such a This is when I was writing a
lot more and I was in l A. Or no,
actually it wasn't. I was almost in l A, but
I was about to move to l A to try
and fucking rite movies. And like you said, it's just

(23:58):
such a like it's a screenplay if you're a writer
that you want to go out and buy and read
these monologues, you know, and there's a there's a language
in the script. I think, like I get. I get
a lot of enjoyment about out of reading Tarantino scripts
to like there's a communication happening between script reader and
script writer that is more familiar than you typically get

(24:22):
when you read anyone's script, just generally. And that's that's
why Magnolia gets the hard bound book treatment, because if
you were if you sit down and read it, it
feels more conversational then scripts usually are. Yeah, which is
funny too, because it's such a right e movie, you know,
like uh, so many parts of it, like all the

(24:46):
you know it is uh what is the line that
they said in the bar about angels and children? Like
these things? They have these random lines like that that
people would bark out. That's not believable in how people
talk at all. No, yeah, but but it works for
the film, and like entirely I think I think so too. Yeah,
I mean those things, those things really stick out when

(25:08):
you compare this film with a contemporary film like stuff
that comes out twenty years later is not given the
benefit of a line written for the sake of a
well written line that this film gets to pull off
because of its run time and because of its its
final cut permission given to its writer director. Right, yeah,

(25:33):
I mean so I saw this a bunch of fucking times,
I mean on the DVD back then too, and um
did not see it for man, I haven't seen this
movie in a long time, and I was a little
worried that will it would have not have aged well
in a way that and that a movie from might

(25:58):
not quite that I thought was just so amazing. I
was afraid I was gonna be a little disappointed, and
I wasn't. I loved it all over again. I agree
with you. I think I think the New Line Cinema
logo is one of those ones that, like when you
go and rewatch a Miramax or a New Line movie
from the late nineties. I think it's a coin flip
right now about about how a film ages. I think

(26:23):
you're right, and so I I felt like, I feel
like I watched this film every year for whatever reason.
But there is definitely a little bit of a flinch
when you see those logos pop up on screen, Like, fuck,
is this going to be like a Kevin Smith situation
or is this going to be something that that lasts
the test of time. Yeah, it's just gonna be from

(26:45):
dusk till dawn? Or is it right? That is some
of those some of those movies I love back then
don't age super well. Now you're totally right, um in
those studios might be the common thread. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah,
I mean at the time I ate them all up.
I mean it feels like New Line in was the

(27:08):
of today, like in terms of consumption, Like I like
that was almost my seal equality. Yeah, and certainly Mirramax. Um,
you know, despite the creep that ran that company. Yeah,
Mirrimax was always was like, yeah, it's it's got to
be like a pretty good movie. Yeah, not great. It's

(27:29):
an interesting time to watch this movie because of its themes, right,
like the the wire things happening ness of it, and
how much that feeling pervades life right now for us
and for everyone else. Yeah, this is a movie that

(27:49):
I'd never um like, I was obsessed with it in
a way, but I never really like sat around and
got stoned and thought about what it meant for some reason.
And and it's a movie that kind of begs you
to do that in some ways, but I didn't. I
don't know why. I just took it on its face value.
Is this big not hanging out with a lot of

(28:11):
stoners at the time, Yeah, yeah newts uh. I just
took it on face value, like almost a little more
of a kind of hippie dippy shortcuts or something like that. Yeah. Yeah,
Like there's a way to watch this film, I think
at the time where you just let it go through

(28:32):
you and then you go on about your day, and
then there's a type of personality that you just can't
let it do that there's the type of personality that
goes back into the theater and sees it again and again,
because like it's so dense that certainly there's something that
I'm missing in these subsequent watches and I and that

(28:54):
I think was my attitude with it when it came out.
I just had to rewatch it. Yeah, I did too,
for sure. But did you kind of delve into the like, oh,
what do the frogs mean? And like all these you know,
all the symbolism and this different stuff where you just
sort of along for the ride of this big epic
sort of interwoven tale. No, I mean I got I

(29:17):
was certainly curious about knowing whether or not there was
a specific message that that p t A Was sending
in it. But every time I I sought that out,
it was a cast member. It was like it was
like Philip smore Hoffman saying something like, well, it's obvious
to me, and it should be obvious to everyone else

(29:38):
that like the senselessness of life is equivalent to a
rain of frogs, Like that's that's life. Like anything can
happen anywhere, and we shouldn't be surprised when things like
this do. And like reading enough interviews with big thinkers

(30:00):
like that made me, you know, set that question aside
a little more, like like, it's easy to make that
the obsession of the thing, because it's the it's the
centerpiece of the film. Uh, but it's almost so like
if you can do that, if you can, if you
can actually ignore the frogs somehow. Yeah, there's so much

(30:23):
more here that's worth interrogation. Yeah, I think I'm able
to and always have been. I certainly was last night,
um and the and when the frogs come, Man, it's
it's that first on the windshield of great sound design
is scary and it's weird and the first and you can't.

(30:44):
It's one of those movies where you want to remember
what it was like the first time you were in
the theater if you didn't know that was coming, and
the what the funkness of it all? Um? But I
never really explored too much what I thought it meant.
I thought I thought just worked as a thing. You know,
did you what were you feeling physically during those moments

(31:11):
like like, this is such a visceral film. It's so
much more visceral than most other films and most of
their Paul Thomas Anderson Films, like for its three hour runtime,
like I can't remember getting more chills or like holding
back sobs or or all of the rest like that

(31:33):
that frog thump is one of them. But like the
chills of the like the ambulance going through the intersection
and the and the rain of frogs, like moving from
background to foreground is such an amazing Like there are
ten parts of the frog scene that are amazing, but
like that individually is incredible. The the tilting of the

(31:54):
ambulance on its side is so cool. Although I will
say last night, for the very first time and as
many times as I've seen this, when I was watching
that scene and the ambulances driving, I was like, fucking stop. Yeah,
like hit the brakes, dude, and just stop. But also
they're so close to the hospital, Like I understand the
instinct to keep going. Yeah, I guess that was it.

(32:17):
I mean, it is an ambulance and they do have
a sick you know, and an overdose. Julian Moore in
the back the the Cinerama and Seattle had a film festival,
late nineties film festival, and I think I mentioned this
when we were talking about Boogie Nights. But like this
is a great theater in Seattle that programs mini festivals
around dates like this, and I got to see Magnolia

(32:41):
again in the theater. And I will say, because I
need to say, I can't just praise the Cinerama in Seattle.
They did a terrible thing in firing a bunch of
their employees and closing the theater for remodeling in a
way that before the pandemic was disgusting and off hole.
And like all of the employees there are are great

(33:04):
and and I missed the idea of them working in
that great theater like full stop. That needs to be
said that. But to see that movie in a in
a theater like the Cinerama was such a treat. And
the sound of those frogs was so special because that
single thump was huge. But also like when uh, when

(33:27):
Jimmy Gator is holding the gun to his head and
you cut to the exterior of the single frog falling
through the sky, you get that little rare through the air.
It's it's falling through the skylight. There were so many
little bitty touches with the frog stuff. Um when after

(33:48):
after John c Riley helps Bill Macy return the money
and there's at the very end of the film, when
they're standing there, there's they both slip a couple of times,
and when the car starts to back out at and
it does that, it kind of like shimmy's a little
bit because it's slipping on those fucking frogs. Those little
details are so cool, my low key. One of my
favorite characters in this whole movie is uh is Donnie's neighbor,

(34:14):
the old lady who he borrows the car from. Yeah,
all you all you get is her her Donnie, Oh Donny.
And then you see the garage that's totally totally sparse.
It's a ladder and that car and it is mint condition.
I love her and I love that car. Yeah, it's

(34:35):
interesting if you if you cut any storyline, Bill Macy's
would probably be on the chopping block for me more
than any other. But I that's not saying I want
to lose it. But do you feel the same way.
You know it's got the least crossover, I guess, but
I thought it was pretty brilliant having this grown up

(34:59):
version of Stanley essentially and like as a sort of
non to what Stanley might become. There's something so aggressive
about how Henry Gibson's character treats him in that bar
like there are so many scenes of of interpersonal drama

(35:21):
and conflict, and all of them are like so concentrated
and distilled, and like the Henry Gibson stuff is, there's
not that many scenes with him and Bill Macy together,
but but they are absolutely sword fighting at that bar.
Oh yeah yeah over the yeah the braces uh brace

(35:46):
tooth bartender. I can't put on the Breakfast in America
album without thinking of this movie. Oh yeah, Goodbye Stranger Man.
It's right, there's yeah, yeah, I love it. You know
what actually, now that I think of it, dude, you
and I. Next time I come to l A and
I'm allowed to travel to l A and I can
hug your sweet neck, we are going to go get

(36:07):
drinks at the fox Fire, Yes village. Have you done
that already? No, I've never been there, but that bar.
Uh My My main hang in l A when I
lived in Las Fielis was the drawing room. Yeah. I
don't know if you've been there before, but I have
the drawing room. When Magnolia came out. I that doesn't

(36:28):
surprise me, by the way. Uh, when the drawing or
when the when Magnolia came out and that scene in
the bar started, I was like, that's the fucking drawing room.
And it's very much laid out the same way, but
upon further like you know, that's Dan Harmon's like local,
that's his that's his local drawing room. Yeah, he's in
there all the time. Oh really yeah, Oh nice. Some

(36:50):
friends and I went to drawing room like back when
we were visiting l A. Yeah, like we new to
seek it out, really, and we spend in entire day.
They're just getting fucking hammered and and like taking over
that juke. Yeah, dude, the drawing room is great. I was.
I lived like a mile down the road and that

(37:11):
that was my hang. We were there all the time.
Um open to day am. I know on it says
so on the sign uh and it's I got a
little quick story about that too. I was doing a
laundry two doors down and that little shopping center or whatever,
that's where I did my laundry. And I did laundry
one day at like ten am, maybe nine am, and

(37:33):
I thought I'm gonna go over to the drawing room
just to see there at nine am, and I went
over there, and it's exactly what you think it was like.
And we should say to the drawing room has no windows,
so nine am feels like one in the morning as
far as they're concerned, except when that door opens. Yeah,

(37:54):
you know that that jarring thing when a windowless bar
during the day the door opens and everyone's like yeah,
but there were they were like the four regular drunks.
This's got named Henry. I think he's still around even
was there, And then there was like three bros up
from the night before, still going at it. Then that's

(38:18):
who's there at nine in the morning. That's the clientele.
That's the clientele. But you know, like a a lay
person might be listening to these stories and thinking like
this isn't the place for them. It may be like
dangerous sounding, or like they might be unwelcome. But I
think you you'd degree that there is no place more

(38:40):
welcoming than the drawing room. Oh no, it's great. Like
it's not like some scary bar, like don't be a
fucking tourist, don't be a jerk in an idiot, but
like you can go to the drawing room and have
a great time and and enjoy it for its many pleasures.
It's it's great. Yeah, I love those old frolic room
obviously is another one these old l A bars with

(39:00):
the big buttoned pleather booths and uh and the and
the bars that have the pleather around the outside of it.
I'm so sad, Chuck, because like, not to make this
about me, but the but the pandemic has really stunted
my l A experience. Like I I was excited. I

(39:20):
was just excited to come down here and like basically
live in vinyl booths for for months and months and
I haven't gotten my booths. I'm so sorry. Man, You'll
you'll get your booths. May be in those booths with you.
I hope, so, I hope so l A l A
is a big character in this movie. Right, Oh I

(39:41):
mean yeah, I mean this is and I look forward to,
uh to him getting back to that, like I've loved
he did Boogie Nights, he did Hard eight, he did
this what was right at oh punch drunk Love, right,
which unfortunately we already did. So we're gonna have to
skip that one. We are not skooping that, by the way,
are we going to do it again? If you want

(40:02):
me to keep doing this series where we've got to
do all of them. I'm holding this serious hostage. All right,
fair enough, we'll do it again. Uh, you and Tony
Hale will have to go at it as to whose
you know I was. I was at that Live Sketch
Fest show with Tony Hale, Like I saw that show.
I love Punch drunk Love. I'm not gonna step on
any on any toes there. We'll go in a different direction,

(40:25):
I promise. Oh no, I'm sure you can't go in
the Tony Hale direction. You know what's interesting is that
you can find the Boogie Night's house on the map,
but you can't find Jason Robard's house from Magnolia, Like,
I really looked for this house and I can't find it.
Does it ever show the exterior a little bit? Like

(40:47):
you see its doorstep and then I guess you see
Julianne Moore dry her Mercedes in the garage? I guess
you don't see too much of it it's exterior now
that you mentioned it. But I just wondered if it
was a stage. Wow, I wonder if it was. So
I'm looking at his filmography now because I was. I
couldn't remember what came after Punch Drunk Ah, there will

(41:10):
be Blood. He took a five year break, so he did.
He does. My point was he's he did these fully
l A Valley movies and then went in a really
different direction career wise with There Will Be Blood, and
then the next one was The Master. Jesus, I can't

(41:31):
wait till we do that when I haven't, I've only
saw that once. You mean both, That's gonna be a
four hour show for us. You know what movie? I
have not even seen? Inherent Vice? That is the only
Paul Thomas Anderson. Paul Thomas Anderson, Phil I'm see I've
seen once. I never saw it, Dude, I got I
heard bad things from enough people to where I made

(41:54):
a conscious choice to not like Ruin one of my
favorite filmmakers. But I've since heard from other people like, no, dude,
see Inherent a Vice like you got to. I'm reluctant,
Like I'm resistant to really going all in on p.
T A's adaptations, like I want him to keep writing

(42:15):
and producing his own movies, Like I want to see
him and I want to see him do his voice.
What else did he adapt? No, I'm talking about about
that film about like one, like I don't. He's uh,
he's so capable, and I understand, Yeah, I don't even

(42:39):
do it. I understand if you're him, Like it's got
to feel good to just take a breath and adapt
something and and do it for the challenge. Like not
holding that against him at all, but like, as a
consumer of his work, I have my preferences, and I'm
sure you do too. Yeah. Absolutely, Um, you know only

(42:59):
saw Their Will Be Blood once now that I think
about it as well, really, yes, just one time. Oh,
he started making really challenging films. That's going to be
a good one. You know what, You're not wrong at all,
you know, I wonder, I wonder where that comes from,

(43:19):
because you get Magnolia, and you get Carte Blanche, you
get the whole thing. And then like we'll talk about
this with Punch Drunk Love, but like that is not
a permission that is granted forever. And yet you look

(43:39):
at Punch Drunk Love and you think that that casting
is a risk. The story is not mainstream. The people
who love that movie love that a lot. I'm one
of them. And then he somehow turns that into There
Will Be Blood, not exactly a return to mainstream, you know,

(44:03):
like it's almost like like he keeps adding middle fingers
to people who bankroll his projects, Like if you if
you think that was difficult, how about their will be blood?
How about the master? How about inherent advice? Like he
keeps doubling and tripling down on this Steph in a
way that I really admire. Yeah, I do too. It's
interesting though, because he started making films where there was

(44:27):
nobody to root for it all. And and it's interesting
because he made these he's family obsessed. Uh. We talked
about that a lot in Boogie Nights. In this film,
there is that the almost duplicate story of two TV
hot shots, Jason Robards and uh and Jimmy Gator Partridge

(44:52):
and Gator who have both have children they're estranged from
and both abuse them. UH and our and I don't
have a relationship with it all. So it's it's weird
that he went with I mean, he's got a family
thing and a dad thing for sure, but it's weird
that he put he felt the need to put two
of those in this movie. Yeah, I thought so too.

(45:16):
I mean, and they both hit incredibly hard for their
own reasons. There's like the Gators are so interesting to me, Like, uh,
like you and I talked a lot about in Boogie Nights.
There's so many lines that we use socially. Yeah, there

(45:37):
are Magnolia lines that I use socially, Like I don't
know if you have any of those, but like I'm
fucking hammered Bert is one of them. Yeah, like are
you drinking as fast as I can? And they all
seem to belong to Jimmy Gator, which is the worst
because he's one of the most lowsome characters in the movie.

(45:58):
But he has such great lines and because it's Philip
Baker Hall, like, they're imbued with like the most gravitas
I know. And you know what, it's a character you
want to like because he's this old, dying icon. Uh.
And then the big gut punch is is the reveal

(46:21):
of the and I was about to say possible molestation,
but I think his he's saying, I don't know what
happened is confirmation, you know. Uh, there are so many
there's so many minor characters in this movie that you
can't even call minor characters because Rose Gator gets a
centerpiece scene in this movie. Man Melinda Dillon so great.

(46:44):
She's so incredible when when she goes off on him,
when when he can't say, but not being able to
say is the indictment you deserve to die alone. That's
what she says. It is such a and she's great.
I'm just a door Melinda Dillan. She does so, she
does so much, and he u he gave her such

(47:06):
a plum even though it's smallest you can still have
like a great role even though it's small, just massive.
She's she's so good in this movie. And and so
many of the smaller parts are they're fully realized. Yeah, yeah,
this may be a while because I'm now I'm starting
to think of the cast. The great Ricky j is

(47:27):
the narrator of that whole great beginning sequence comes back around,
but man, those book ends he takes a full i
mean between the book ends and the the kind of
Boogie Nights esque montage setting everyone up. It's it's seventeen

(47:47):
minutes into the film before narrative action gets going. It's
so is I mean, the setup takes so long, but
it's so satisfying too, because the stories are so good,
like it's story within story. We get our three for
the preamble, and then we're into putting our game pieces

(48:09):
on the board, and that lasts for a good fifteen minutes,
understanding where everyone is on the board and what their
motivations are, and it's it's so beautifully done, and it's not.
I feel like in a lesser person's hands, this would
feel hack. Like you're you're being told, you're being signaled

(48:32):
that this is a film about a thing. And and
in saying that, I am saying that the preamble does
that in magnolia, but it's not. It doesn't. It's so
well told. It's almost as if the quality of the
story was being told in the preamble. Forgive any element
of it being hack at all. And by the time

(48:53):
you're two hours into this, the preamble is so far
in the past you're not really even processing that until
until the epilogue, until it comes back for sure, and
you're right, like he he does that thing that sort
of amateurish filmmakers can do, which is here's the theme

(49:15):
of the film. But it works. Webs Dictionary says, coincidence is,
but that's what he does. At the very beginning, He's
basically like, this is a movie about how chance and
coincidence don't happen, um and and and you know he
could have I guess if you're looking to cut things,

(49:36):
he used three stories at the beginning, probably could have
could have gone with two maybe. But but that pattern
of threes is something that Paul Thomas Anderson does all
the time. There's always a rule of threes for him. Yeah,
that's true. Uh, And the and the and the opening
narration too with Ricky J. That yeah, this cannot be

(49:56):
one of those things. This please and not to be
that these strange things happen all the time. And then
that needle drop with Amy Man. So great man, what
a great fucking opening. I love it so much. There's
I mean, Ricky J. Should have should have had a
more developed career as a voiceover artist. He should be

(50:22):
he should have been the number one voiceover artist for
the last forty years. Yeah, he's incredible in this, Yeah, absolutely,
And you know he gets just a kind of a
small part is I guess what is he like the
producer of Jimmy Gator Show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the he's
I mean, but but who is better than him at

(50:46):
taking a little and making it a lot? Like there's
so much weight into in his relationship between him and
UH and Philip Baker Hall, Like you don't know their
relationship at all, but when when Jimmy Gator steps to
the curtain and they're together before he goes out, you

(51:07):
know everything about their relationship at that point. Yeah, for sure.
And he does that. I mean, he takes such great
care with his small roles, like there's never a throwaway.
We already talked about Henry Gibson probably maybe a little
bit of a non to Nashville Alfred Molinas. Solomon Solomon, Oh, man,

(51:27):
that great little scene that he has. He's just so
great at playing this sort of ambiguously ethnic dude. He's
great in that scene. But I want to nominate the
guy standing over his shoulder as the you don't need
braces downy, like like the guy who just he's he's
Jimmy two times with the repetition of everything, Solomon Soloman

(51:51):
is saying, it's so great and you get the deeling
you say, you know what, need braces not because like
you shouldn't do that. He's saying it almost like with
a tone of you look great. Yeah, yeah, he's he's
encouraging April Grace as Guinevere. The interviewer of t. J.
Mackie is so good in this movie. And she's just

(52:13):
so like I think she she's so easily overlooked that role,
you know, and think about the compositions with her, because
that scene is all about getting closer and closer and closer.
Like we start out wide with t J. Mackie and
he's like doing his karate kicks in his underwear, like

(52:34):
like we're getting two shots with them, and then that
entire sequence is like about getting closer to Tom Cruise,
closer to April Grace as Guenevere, and and she has
to be Tom Cruise is equal. She has to go
toe to toe with him in that scene and that

(52:56):
is a huge challenge that she rises to and six
eats that she's amazing in this movie. She does it, yeah,
because it's not only Tom Cruise, which is intimidating enough
as as a um you know, she was a young
actor at the time, but it's Tom Cruise, like chewing
fucking dialogue and scenery in the most overtop, over the

(53:20):
top sort of Tom Cruise way that you could be
as Frank t J. Mackie. And and I'm sure he
that was part of the I'm sure that was part
of the vibe in those scenes was the intimidation of
Frank T. J. Mackie is the same intimidation that Tom
Cruise brings in there in the room. It's so interesting that,
like all of the verbal lessons that he teaches in

(53:43):
that seminar are things that you can hear he and
Doc and Captain Muffy use when they talk to anyone else.
Like he's using this coded language with her. Yeah, throughout
those scenes and those other and his two handlers are
doing the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, it's just it's I've
been It's sort of like, Ah, I worked on a

(54:04):
TV commercial with Michael Bay once and shut the How
have you not told me this story? Was it the
commercial in the Elevator? No, it's like a Chevy Trucks thing.
I've got some great stories from that job. It was
like a two week thing all over California. Um, it
was great. But it's the same way. There's like this
culture that is set the same way that Frank Mackie's

(54:28):
organization runs um on like a Michael Bay job, and
it starts with that top asshole and and works its
way down to everybody. Yeah, I'll tell you some stories
at some point. Remind me that when we're at the
fox Fire Room. I really I can't wait for that.
It's gonna be awesome. But let's talk quickly about before

(54:51):
we talk about Tom Cruise specifically, who you and I are.
I mean, it's weird to say fans of because I'm
so weird it out in anti scientology, but you and
I are both fans of Tom Cruise's work. We feel
the same way in that way. There are there are
unfortunate aspects to being a Tom Cruise fan, but I

(55:13):
am like you. Uh, I will go see every Tom
Cruise film. Yeah, and I think he's a fucking hell
of an actor. Uh. But the and it's so misogynistic
that this seduce and destroy seminar. But I know you,
and I know your sense of humor, and there are

(55:34):
so many things that I know that Paul Thomas Anderson
meant to be wrongly funny about about this seminar. Uh.
And here's a couple of them. One of the slides,
I don't know if it was a slider, Yeah, I
think it was. One of the slides from his book
was how to turn that friend into a sperm receptacle. Receptacle. Yeah,

(55:59):
just the worst fucking thing you could imagine, like so disturbing.
It's it's almost an exercise in if you were to
pull that back into like make it half as disgusting,
it would be worse. Like you almost need to press
that all the way into ten out of ten in
order to come around with the other side of that

(56:20):
being laughable. Oh. Absolutely, Like he has to be and
it's gross to watch, but he has to be the
most like disgusting misogynist, and it has to be a
room full of these uh woman hating Um, what's what's

(56:41):
the word these guys these days, there's a word for it.
These guys that don't have sex that want to you're
talking about in cells. Yeah, and then they hate women
because of that, these cells. That's what it was. It
was kind of before that was popularized. But you fill
a room full of these awful men that just seem
like they hate women, but all they're trying to do

(57:03):
is bed them in in a gross, like grudge fucky way.
It's so like so gross to watch. There's a scene
I'm thinking of when you were when you were saying
that that's like it's almost therapeutic when that one person
in the crowd tells their story and t J. Mackie

(57:23):
comes up off of the stage and puts his hand
on his shoulder and he's like, I don't think there's
anyone in this from this and felt that way before. Yeah,
because the guy says, she just didn't think of me
that way or yeah, and like and what t J.
Mackee is saying verbally on the page is true, Like
that that is painful, that realization. But but in the

(57:48):
context of that room and what's happening, it's so interesting
to see that that sort of statement weaponized. Yeah, and
and turned awful. Yeah. The other thing I thought was funny,
it was and I know they had a good time
with this was the it's this big seminar about seducing women.
All this thing was the whole calendar bit, get a calendar. Yeah,

(58:11):
you know, it's there's like ten lines dedicated to the calendar. Chuck.
It's like, it's it's a night of night said thing
you can get at the drug store. Like there's ten
different versions of that line in the movie that I love.
Oh yeah, and he and he's like, because you know,
if you have the mandatory whatever day waiting period, Like,
how are you going to know when that happened? Guys,

(58:32):
unless you have that paper calendar hanging up. It's like
pre iPhone, which is like this, And he makes himself
magnanimous too, He's like, now I've included that for free,
that's in your packet. Let's talk about Tom Cruise, man,
I mean he you know. The story was he saw
Boogie Nights and called Paul Thomas Anderson to England to

(58:54):
visit him on Eyes Wide Shut to basically say, you're
the real deal, man, and anytime you want to work
with me, let's do it. And this character is so uh,
it's so real. Man. I've known these guys that like,
these are the guys that I never ever and that
was never like really good friends with any of these

(59:15):
dudes obviously, but these like guys like you and I,
we want to go out into a bar and like
when we were single, let's say if we had known
each other, we go into a bar and hang out
with each other, so we can fucking hang we went.
They're looking over each other's shoulders, like who am I gonna?
Who am I going to get tonight? Man? Who am
I gonna take home. I went home alone every time,

(59:36):
to man, because I was too busy hanging out with
my friends, Like I was never like out there trying
to get laid. Maybe that's a problem. I don't know.
Maybe we did it wrong. Oh I'm sure. I'm sure
we burned our best years on people like each other.
Oh boy, that's the line, man, that's the line. Uh.

(59:58):
But yeah, I knew some of these some do like
this though, that like you couldn't even talk to him
when you're out because all they're doing is scanning the
room like a predator. It's fucking creepy, man, Yeah, it is.
I can't imagine what it must have been like to
like get a phone call from Tom Cruise a and

(01:00:20):
then be he's shooting a Kubrick film and he wants
to talk to you about what might be next, and
not only that, like to have your next thing be
something that should repulse someone like him at that part
of his career, right, Like if this was anyone else

(01:00:43):
but Paul Thomas Anderson, I don't think Tom Cruise does
this at all, and it's an easy decision for him
to say no. But this is one of the ultimate
examples of an actor really wanting to work with a director,
regardless of party, and he takes and he runs with
it in such a way like he he ran all

(01:01:03):
the way to a Best Supporting Actor nomination. He's spectacular
in this movie, in a and in an ensemble where
there should where the entire Best Supporting Actor and actress
category should be filled with every performance in this movie.
Now you're you're totally right. Yet he manages to stand

(01:01:23):
out somehow. He um like Emily hates Tom Cruz. Uh.
It's well established on the show. But last night she
was watching, not watching, kind of doing her own thing
while it was on, and I was watching it, and
when he comes on as as Frank McKie at the
seminar and starts doing that thing, She's just she's so repulsed.

(01:01:44):
And I'm like, that's it's supposed to be repulsive. Yes,
that's how good he is. Is He's playing the worst
fucking version of of a man that there is, you know. Yeah,
And and by the end, like when he goes into

(01:02:04):
Jimmy's house, you're made to feel empathy for him. And
that is one of the magic tricks of this film
is that he shows up laid bear. He's gonna drop
kick those fucking dogs if they come near him, and
he's going to get his bedside moment. And that breakdown
is one of the it's one of my favorite performances

(01:02:28):
of any actor in any movie, the barely holding it
to the barely holding it together. Tom Cruise is one
of my favorite actors. That version of him totally dude,
and it's like he's spent this whole movie looking at
this guy and just thinking, like, what a fucking garbage
man this is. He's the guy that makes good guys

(01:02:51):
like us look bad. So guys like us having a special,
like especially visceral reaction to someone like this. Uh. And
then you learn the big reveal at the end is
this awful thing that his dad did. He abused him
and he uh he he left his wife, his dying wife,

(01:03:12):
to his young son to deal with. And then all
of a sudden at the end, he've got this like
broken down man, not excusing behaviors, but it's it's like
you said, it's that magic trick of like funck man,
he got kicked in the nuts when he was a kid.
That that line that I hang on every time is

(01:03:33):
is like he brings it to a point when he's like,
because I'm not going to take care of you, Like
he's not going to take care of his father the
way he was made to take care of his mother. Yeah,
and that hits just so hard, so hard. Man. H
On a wider note, the other the other seminar, I'm
looking at my notes now, the other seminar thing that

(01:03:54):
I thought was so funny. All right, guys, we're gonna
move on to this next bit. How to fake like
you are nice? And I love it so much, Like
there was a I mean, I'm still this guy, but
there was a time when I would I would just
be combing eBay for props from movies like this, because

(01:04:16):
I really loved for a time trying to get the
crew shirt of of a Magnolia, which I had for
a time, and and like cruise shirts from other films
from the late nineties. But like, how badly do you
want the Blue Book from the T. J. Mackew seminar,
Like I want that. It could be blank pages inside,

(01:04:37):
that's fine, but I want them. I want the blue
book with the cover of that stupid looking wolf with
the leather vest. Yeah, I want have you ever bought
some cool stuff. No, I mean my, I mean my,
my interests are so specific that they couldn't possibly be
found on eBay, Like I like, I'm too hyper specific

(01:04:58):
about individual props that they're just like that belongs in
someone's office. Yeah, I hear you. All right, so everyone
should know that we both just took a little potty
break and a drink refill. But I don't remember exactly
where we were. I know we were talking about Tom

(01:05:18):
Cruise and Frank Mackie. Do you remember, all right, well,
I do want to say this. Then back to the
scene with the interviewer. Um, he the way that scene
is played between the two of them, he is he
is in full uh search and destroy mode through the

(01:05:40):
whole thing. And then the way that thing turns man
as soon as she starts to challenge him, he gets
agitated at first, and then he just fucking goes dead.
And that that turn man is so fucking cool. I
really love that as an interviewer, she's doing uch a
capable job. But she is also never aggressive with him,

(01:06:03):
Like if you'll notice, like her question is not who's
your real who are your real parents? The question is
why would you lie? Yes, which is a so much
more interesting question to ask and so much less threatening
of one to ask. Yeah, And and then she she

(01:06:24):
she wears kid gloves the whole time, and she approaches
that question even because she's like, you know, you know,
my people said this, and if that's true, then why
would you lie? And boy, he's just and you can
see the anger man behind his eyes that this woman
is besting him and it's just powerful. Yeah. Yeah, And

(01:06:46):
that and the explosion at the end where he goes
in on her and she pushes him away is a
great and awful moment. Yeah, yeah, a thousand percent. Um.
I feel like a good way that to go about this,
And it seems like that's what we're doing, is to
talk about these characters, and then the story just kind

(01:07:08):
of comes around. So let's move on to let's move
on to John c Riley and Laura Walters one of
my and and it's kind of the heart of the
film in a lot of ways, don't you think. Absolutely.
I think Laura Walters is like you could argue the

(01:07:28):
heart of Boogie Nights in her way, she's also the
heart of this film. Um, she's so incredible in this
and she gets the gavel to the film, which I
think is like a lot of people, a lot of
people like Lost in Translation for the same reason that

(01:07:50):
I like Magnolia, which is like, you get that moment
at the end of like a conversation building to this
moment of realization that like, this is the love that
that we want to see, that we've wanted to see
for the entire film, and we might we might just
get it. But when she looks directly at camera right

(01:08:10):
at the moment that the song turns like it's it
totally destroys me every time, every single time, every time
it grabs me by the throw and and squeezes it's
it's great. It's the best. And she is the reason why. Yeah, yeah, man,
because she's so raw in this movie. And um, I've

(01:08:37):
known people like this that had cocaine problems. Um, you know,
many years ago. Obviously, when you're forty nine years old,
if you know cocaine at its still, then you're traveling
wrong circles. But when I was younger, I knew people
get mixed up in that stuff, man, like good people. Yeah,
uh and you and and you know, as as as

(01:08:58):
Rick James said, it's a hell of a drug, and
it's done some uh to see this played out on
the screen, to this damaged woman who was molested by
her father, and it's just seeking out these brief sexual
liaisons uh and and doing cocaine, Like when she's doing

(01:09:18):
cocaine on the date, even she's just seeking this goodness
of this earnest cop man. It's just fucking heartbreaking. I think, like,
if you're gonna look at this on paper and you're
and you're sketching out her character as the coke addict,
funk up, uh, the victim of abuse, you might think

(01:09:39):
that if you're if you're a normal movie go or,
you wouldn't have anything in common with this person. But
when I first saw this movie and every subsequent time
I've ever seen it, like she's the person who can't
get out of her own way. She's the one who's
doing the line before going out in a eight saying

(01:10:00):
you're so stupid. Every part of her is is self
sabotaging in a way that is universal. Everyone knows what
that feels like. And it doesn't take being an addict
to to know how that feels and to know how
how awful it feels to see a way out or

(01:10:21):
a good person in front of you, and to think
like I'm just gonna sunk this up the way I
funked up everything else, and and and whether or not,
like I don't and I don't think in saying this
that cocaine is a main character attribute of hers. It's
just a way to get us to understand expediently how

(01:10:41):
her mind works in a way that that that makes
that happen, that like that makes it universal for all
of us. Yeah, I mean her cocaine is someone's ice
cream or inability to stand up to someone or whatever.
It's that thing. Yea uh. And I think I'm now
realizing like one character thing and movies that are really

(01:11:03):
respond to in such a sad way. And this is
not me because it's not a reflection on me, but
as a character who feels there not worthy of love
is really really tough for me to see, maybe because
I try to see good in people, but like I
see this character and like she's worthy of love but

(01:11:25):
she doesn't think she is. It is heartbreaking to see
every time I see it in a movie. Yeah, and
her rage at her father is so raw that I
can't remember seeing anything like it before this film. The
way that she screams at her father, it feels like

(01:11:46):
like it feels like you shouldn't be seeing it. It's
so intimate, right, Yeah, And and this is and the
way he plays this movie out is you don't know
what had happened at that point, Like he reveals that
it the end, which was really a master stroke, I think,
because you don't, you're you're just sort of it's that
tease of like, well, why does she fucking hate this

(01:12:08):
guy's guts because he seems he's coming there with his
hat in his hand. Yeah, fully, and uh, and she's
just not having it. Yeah, you you place the blame
on her before moving it through the course of the
film to him, it's, uh, it's really strong stuff. And
how about casting Philip Baker Hall as that guy too?

(01:12:32):
Like what a great decision. Like, if there's anyone that
I feel great love and admiration for, it's someone with
that face, you'd like Sydney that that kind of man is, Like,
that's the best, Like, how could he possibly do wrong?
It's it's a surprise when you realize what's happened, and

(01:12:54):
it's devastating because it's him. Yeah, he looks like he
looks like a Bassett hound, you know. I love the
detail of him coming home from work after after blowing
the shoe, like everything that could go wrong goes wrong
at the at the kid game show, but when he
comes home, they change him out of his shirt and
they put him into another collared shirt. Right, that's right.

(01:13:17):
I love that detail so much, like like, of course
there is no there's no casual where for him, right right.
That guy's old Hollywood. It's it's it's button up shirts
all the way down, all the way down. There's no
T shirt going on. It's funny that jog my memory.
Though I read that initially the Tom Cruise, the Frank T.

(01:13:39):
J McKee character was supposed to be like Polo shirt
and Khaki's guy. Yeah, and Tom Cruise took it in
a whole different direction, and Pete Anderson was just like
fully on board, which is cool. I like that note.
I think I think it's grosser if it's polo shirt
or two polo shirts, because it's so ever present, like

(01:14:00):
it's everywhere, but you so rarely see leather vest guy
that it's yeah, it seems almost safer like the lampoon
that guy because fat fucking sausage and then he rhymes
sausage with August. He did come August. I forgot about that.

(01:14:24):
That's really funny. Oh man, Uh that's a disturbing amount
of recall that I have. No, that's great, I love it.
Uh all right, So back to Mlaura Walters. She this
cop comes into her life that is just this uh
like Ernest is the only way I can describe him.
He's just um, you know, he doesn't like foul language.

(01:14:48):
And he's and he he every he's he's the he's
the cop that you want out there. You know. He
goes into every situation wanting everything to be okay. He
read his More to me before I knew what Mormon was. Yeah,
like like super super quality guy, like and I mean

(01:15:08):
that is a compliment, like quality fucking guy all the way,
like those Mormons. Yeah, those fucking Mormons. Quality. Well, I
mean I'm just getting the Mormons in my life for
quality people. Mormons are great. I was just just working around,

(01:15:28):
Like I'm sure you read this the way I did.
But like, when you're a mid twenties Paul Thomas Anderson,
you can go out and shoot your weird weekend movies
with John c Riley on a whim and see what
comes out of it. And the idea that this character
came out of one of their weekenders. Like, like the

(01:15:48):
thought that stuck in my head for a long time
after seeing this movie was like, it's interesting how I
think we all narrate our own lives to a certain degree,
but to actually say the words out loud is such
a fun and neat quality to a character. Man, And
you never don't believe, like this is another magic rick, right,

(01:16:11):
this should be so dumb, it should be well, there's
another one coming. You should not work. No, it shouldn't work. Um,
it's a guy dictating his diary and it totally works.
But you know, because it's John c Riley, I think
because he's the because he's everyman, he's the best. Yeah, yeah,

(01:16:33):
that's the ultimate so good man. And he doesn't do
it the whole movie. Does he just do it twice
beginning and end? Or is there another one? I want
to say, because it's p t A like there's three,
but there might be one in the middle. But I do,
really I love it. And it's never like it's it's

(01:16:54):
never you know, sometimes it's a crutch, right when you
when you throw the voice over, like like your telling
me and not showing me, and that two weeks that's
week sauce mostly, But when he's telling you and showing you,
it's different. It's different because it's him. I totally agree. Man,
he's just got a superpower in a way that few

(01:17:15):
actors do. Yeah. Yeah, And and that's that first scene, man,
when they first meet each other and that music is going,
it's so uh like intense, intense and uh, she's so
obviously fucking tweaked out. And he waits six minutes before

(01:17:35):
he says, have you been using drugs? It's because he's
so much in his own head and this is like
a human nature thing, like he is self criticizing the
entire time to like where do I put my nightstick?
Where do I put my hands? I'm supposed to pretend
that this coffee tastes good, Like he's running the script
of how to look cool, while at the same time,

(01:17:58):
she's running her own script how to look cool. And
they're never they're never seeing each other, they're only seeing themselves. Yeah,
And it's a relationship that you know in a million
years will never work, but you want it to. And
you you might even but buy it for a minute

(01:18:20):
in the movie because they're so am I too much
of the romantic by saying like I think that they
make it. I think I think they make it. Look
at you, what a sweetheart? Maybe so? Maybe so because
that that others that, you know, sort of the final
scene where they go on the date together, that is
such good stuff, man, And it's so like melodramatic and overwritten,

(01:18:45):
but it just fucking works with them bearing their souls
like that, and and her just saying like being so
raw and saying like, I'm you wouldn't want to know me, man,
basically you don't want to know me, and he's saying, yes,
I do. I do. I want to talk about this
a lot unfriendly fire, but the idea of a special effect,

(01:19:08):
like like an airplane sequence being done on wires and
it looking really bad, but it looking really good. If
all of your effects sequences are shot on wires, it's
it's the comparison, right. If you can be consistent with
the effect, then it doesn't stick out as much. And
I think that that is at play here with the dialogue,

(01:19:29):
because I think we both agree that it's overwritten in
a lot of parts, but because in totality there is
so much of that sprinkled around, like you never get
it compared to something else in such a way that
makes you see the wire. Yeah, absolutely, and you just want,

(01:19:49):
like you really want these characters to be okay, these
two uh, even if they're not together like individually, because
he's so um what's the word when you're he's so vulnerable,
you know when he loses that fucking gun man and
what is he doing in that scene too, Like they're
both still thinking about themselves, Like she's thinking about how

(01:20:13):
fucked up she is, he's thinking about how he lost
his gun. Like they're never quite seeing each other. And
that's the thing that that that keeps their relationship going forward,
because if they ever truly knew each other entirely, I
think you're right, I think they would never work. But
because they're both in their heads about their own ship, right,

(01:20:36):
So there do you? So you think it's like a
U two people who are both just sort of damaged,
but they're damaged together, damaged in in compatible ways. Maybe. Yeah,
that scene where he loses that gun is so raw
because he's just he starts crying at one point and
he's so scared, like you get that, yeah, like I'm

(01:20:58):
not a religious there's when he starts when he starts
praying about the gun like that. That's devastating to me.
Now it is, It totally is. He was so good
And I meant to point out to the second ago
when you're talking about the weekend or ah for the listeners.
Paul Thomas Anderson made a short film when with John

(01:21:20):
c Riley and I think Jennifer Jason Lee and who else?
It was like one more person. Jennifer Jason Lee was
the one I thought of, and I can't think of
the third. There was the third really famous person that
just went out on a weekend and did this sort
of cops spoof and he grew out the mustache. And
that's sort of how this character developed out basically as
officer Jim Jim Cullen. Was that it or Jim coming,

(01:21:43):
It's Jim Curring. Yeah yeah, Jim Curring, which is such
a cop name, has a mustache ever belonged more on
a face than on John c Riley's face. It's really perfect,
it did. It really worked out for him. It looked good.
I love that kind of light ning in a bottle though, Like,
let's just go experiment and see if this turns into

(01:22:04):
a thing. And it full on turned into a b
story here well and and the opposite of Reid Rothschild. Yeah,
like the full I mean, we haven't even kind of
really said it's it's obvious if you're a fan of his,
But this is the p T Anderson, the early ensemble
Yea and his his players basically, I mean Tom Cruise

(01:22:28):
is nude, Julian Moore, Phil Hoffman, Bill Macy, Mlaura Walters,
Philip Baker, Hall, John c Riley, Ricky j Molina, Louie
Kusman funny in this movie. Yeah, you had such a
small part, but I love that. Louis Guzman's only function
in this movie was to talk ship to those kids.

(01:22:51):
He knows all of the baseball trivia and dairy trivia,
any questions about cheese or dairy products. Oh Man, Thomas
Jane too. It's supposedly he played young Jimmy Gator. When
was that scene? I don't even remember that. I think
that was in the montage so we get like the
Entertainment Tonight montage of we see him through the years. Dude,

(01:23:13):
I did not notice that. Yeah, I love Thomas Jane. Also,
I can't have too much Thomas Jane. But yeah, a
couple of other little hit tiny parts was before I
knew who he was. Patton Oswald at the beginning, Yeah,
just baby face, baby face, he's so cute. Uh. And

(01:23:33):
then the other one was I don't even know if
you know this. You probably do because you know this movie.
But the guy on the other end of the phone
call with Phil Hoffman Chad, when he's trying to say,
He's like, this is the scene in the movie which
we need to talk about that that's p Is, It's
p f D. It's Paula Tompkins. I never knew that

(01:23:55):
until today. It's incredible trivia and like in the and
I haven't been in the same room as him very often,
but it's it's been the thing that I've wanted that
I've wandered about a lot, Like I wonder how much
he gets chatted up about that. Uh. Well, I love
that I know this now, um, because next time my

(01:24:17):
CM I will bring it up. But I knew he
was in that sort of Pet Anderson John Brian crew
from the Largo set. Back in those days. There's a
lot of great voice work in this movie, like Marylynn
Rashcoop as the as Janet. Did you recognize her voice?
I totally didn't know that was her. I want I
want you to give me the information, Janet. Wow, I

(01:24:41):
want you to do your fucking job. I am doing
my fucking job. Frank, Yeah, that's her. Yeah. Now that
I'm looking at the cast to what the she's awesome.
The I guess he just had a bit part in
This Day and Marylynn Rashcoop came back for Punch Truk Love.
Oh yeah, she had a big part in that. Um

(01:25:02):
as the most Aggro of the Agro sisters. She's great. Um.
Alan Graf who played the guy in the donut shopping
Boogie Nights who pulled out that fucking magnum. Apparently he
plays a firefighter in this movie. No way, I didn't
know that. Young Clark Greg is the a D. I

(01:25:23):
love the Paul Thomas Anderson players. Like the repertory theater
that he assembles for every film is a delight every time. Yeah,
it's great on Tom Cruise's cousin What a Shock. Um.
Let's talk about the Philip Seymour Hoffman in uh and
fucking robards Man like I was hoping we would. This

(01:25:47):
is gonna go with the whole two hours and I've
been glad to you. Are you okay? I absolutely do
a right good. It's it's like eleven o'clock here in Atlanta.
But I'm I'm I'm roaring. Yeah, yeah, man, Philip Symore
Hoffman and I think I mentioned this and Boogie Nights.
Uh p t Anderson had had always kind of written
these asshole or freaky or weird roles for him, and

(01:26:10):
he said he wanted to finally give him a role
that was most like him, and apparently Phil in Magnolia
as the nurse was the most true to who Philip
Symore Hoffman was, which really fills me up and makes
me super sad. Yeah, it's it's great, and it's devastating
to hear that because, uh, he's so human. His character

(01:26:35):
is so human in this film. Maybe the I mean
Rose Gator is great, but we don't know her the
way that we know Philip Parma. Phil Parma might be
the real heart of the entire thing. I yeah, I
know we said that was John c Roley Mlaura Walters,
but yeah, Phil Parma is pure goodness in this movie,

(01:26:57):
he really is. And uh, he's just he's just absorbing,
right Like he never he never reacts and deflects, he's
never on offense. He's always absorbing and letting things move
through him, right, So like when when uh, when Julianne

(01:27:19):
Moore's character is screaming at him, he's just like letting
it go through. When when Jason Robards is telling him
the story, he's just listening. When Tom Cruise is threatening
to kick the fucking dogs, he's he's just there as
as like he's like totemic in the center of this film.
And he even gets like some of the low key

(01:27:41):
best lines, like when he calls up the Pink Dot
delivery so good and and like and the operator asked
him if he still wants all the groceries along with
the magazines. He's so innocently doesn't have any idea why
anyone would question the entire grocery order. Yeah, there's so

(01:28:01):
many great little moments like that with Philip Parma. That's
one of them. And the other one that comes to
mind is one that would have been so easy to
cut out of this movie is when um towards the end,
when when Partridge is literally dying. Ah, he knows this,
and he gets the relief nursed at the door. You

(01:28:27):
could have easily cut that scene, but he goes to
the door and and opens it up just a little bit.
And it was like, Nah, I'm just gonna I don't know,
I'm gonna write it out or I can't remember what
he said exactly, but that that's like such a quick
little scene that says so much about who this guy is,
Like he knows I'm going to be with this man

(01:28:49):
when he dies tonight, and I want to be there. Yeah,
it was a spectacular role, and that moment is so crucial.
You're right, and he tells one that he's going to
see it through. You never see his face. You're just
you're locked onto Phil Parma. I think it was Paula Tompkins.

(01:29:11):
It's the back, he's everywhere, all the all the fake
cigarette stuff. That's such. That's such a great little detail.
And in a hospice palliative care situation like that, Yeah, God,
that it's so heavy. And I love how Jason Robarts

(01:29:32):
is just lit on that Craftmatic adjustable bed like in
the living room, Like you know, when you've reached a
point in your declining health. When the bed is in
the living room, that ship is fucking bad. And that's
where Jason Robarts is in this movie. He's in the
living room. Well, he was asked at some point, what

(01:29:53):
room do you want to die in? Yeah, and that
was it. It was the living room. Yeah. And and
then you know, of course with this storyline, you bring
in Julianne Moore, who's one of my favorite actors ever.
And uh. And when I was watching Magnolia last night,
I was like, God, has she ever been better? And
then I remember Boogie Nights and everything else she's done,

(01:30:14):
and it's like, well, I'll just pick a movie, and
she's always great. She's so capable in the margins, both
in Boogie Nights and in Magnolia, that like, I wonder,
I wonder if p t A like as has the
instinct to pull her back into the center, the way
that he took John c Riley and like made him

(01:30:37):
less weird and brought him back into the middle. Because
she's so dynamic and explosive and scary and beautiful in
what she does in this movie that like, you know,
she can do it all. It's got to be hard
when you've got her to not use her to her
full potential this way. Yuh, She's she's a she's a

(01:31:03):
fucking machine gun of emotions and you can't just you
can't dial her back. I don't know how you can.
And in this movie like that, that's the it's the
purest example of that, Like the scene of her going
to the pharmacy and taking that umbrage that she does
with the pharmacist and all of her scenes with Yeah,

(01:31:30):
that's such a specific, like great thing. Uh, I mean
she has to really. I mean, she has a bunch
of standout scenes that kind of all are but that
one in the scene with with Michael Murphy as the
attorney or just so fucking rock solid man, that attorney
is one of those low key parts of this film
that is great, like a real glue part. Yeah, and

(01:31:52):
she makes it. She's one of these actors that always
makes it look so easy. Like I don't know anything
about her process, but julian Moore strikes me as someone
who also on the set and can just fucking turn
it on like that. I Mean, Meryl Streep gets the
rep as best actor in the world, but like I
feel like Julianne Moore's in the conversation and I and

(01:32:14):
I fully believe that, like I think she can. There's
no one. There are actors better, there are actors as
good as her, but no actor that's better than her.
I think one thousand percent agree. Man, She's she is
amazing every single time. She's never done anything shitty. Have
you ever seen Safe the film? Yeah? Yeah, that was

(01:32:37):
that was like that may have been like the first
thing I saw her in. Actually, now I think about
I saw that in college. Yeah, when I worked at
the cool video store and that was you know, that
was during that great early nineties sort of indie period.
I love that you had a cool video store phase
because I had one of those two. Oh you worked
on one. Yeah, I worked in a grocery store video department.

(01:33:00):
Whoa wow, that was the best department man. Uh what
grocery store Seattle, safe Way. Yeah. I used to sell
I used to rent videos, and sell lottery tickets and
rent out the rug doctor machines. That would all happen
at that department. Yeah, flattery, carpet cleaner, and videos. Yeah,

(01:33:25):
the whole thing. I think. I think I sold cigarettes
there too. I think that was a part of it,
but not a lot of cigarette business man. You had
me going you throwing rug doctor. Yeah, rug doctor is
a very specific reference. And that was a pain in
the ask too, because like you had three of them
in the store and you had to you had to
break out the binder, and the binder had that that

(01:33:48):
carbon paper like like chuck, if you're going to rent
the rug doctor, man, we gotta fill out this thing.
And so it's you and me flipping it back and forth,
like you gotta fill out your name and address in
your phone number. I gotta do I gotta do the
slidey credit card thing over. It's a whole process. Oh
my god. Yeah, how many credit cards did you mangle

(01:34:09):
with those? I mangled a few of my day, all
of them. I mean, the paper was illegible. It was bad.
It was bad. But the best part of being a
grocery store video department clerk was the videos. Man, Like
I would, I'm not going to get in any trouble
for saying this. I would take them home. I'm taking
home new releases every night and I'm watching them. Yeah,

(01:34:32):
because you got to safe way going to come after you. No,
I don't. I don't think so. I think. Yeah, they
don't want any part of me. I'm driving business their way.
So um, do they still rent VHSS? God? Uh? The

(01:34:53):
co host Benjamin or Harrison, my co host on all
my other shows, mentioned we were talking about how often
we would go to Suncoast and by the VHS tapes
and how I specifically would get the letterbox VHS versions
of movies because that's the only place that you get them,
the the mall video store, where you would spend twenty

(01:35:17):
or thirty dollars on a VHS tape to get the
letterbox version of like I forgot there that much of
as Good as it Gets or something like I'm talking
about something like of that era, as good as it gets.
That's worth. That was a that was an era. So

(01:35:41):
Robards like, we really haven't focused on him enough. He's uh,
this was his last role obviously he uh. I don't think.
I don't know if he knew he was dying when
he made this, but I think he knew it was
close or something like that, because it sure feels like
the part is in viewed with that energy. Yeah. Absolutely,

(01:36:03):
And boy, he's good that last that last fucking monologue man,
And you've got the book so you've read it. Like,
I encourage you, if you're a screenwriter or just into
exploring what a script might look like on a page
you've never done it. Go read that monologue at the
end of this film from the Partridge character. Unbelievable. I mean,

(01:36:27):
I know a lot of the backstory is John c
Riley and Paul Thomas Anderson fucking around on a weekend.
But like I always wonder this in films like this,
what's the scene you start with and then write in reverse,
like like spiraling out from that centerpiece, And I can't
help but think that this is that moment, This is

(01:36:50):
where you begin your film, is this monologue and then
you write outward because the the message of using your
regret is something that's resonated with me my whole life. Yeah,
the goddamn regret. Yeah yeah, I mean the story he
tells us awful and he understands what a terrible person

(01:37:14):
he's been. But the instrumentality of making mistakes, the idea
that like the truly bad people make mistakes and learn
nothing from them, and keep making them and don't care.
But there is like you can find redemption or or
something in at least recognizing it. And using it for good.

(01:37:42):
Yeah that is Uh. I wonder what like the brain
space that you're in when you're writing something this heavy.
I wrote a movie after this, and looking back, Magnolia
was why it went in this direction, because I've only
always written comedy scripts. Your Reign of Salamander's scene was

(01:38:05):
pretty derivative, Chuck. I mean, I wasn't. I mean, I
wasn't going to give you notes on the show. But yeah,
it was a little too much on the You should
know that I should have. Um, you should know better.
I wrote a wrote a movie, a big fucking l

(01:38:27):
A drama. It was totally Magnolia. That's why I wrote it.
It was called hollywood Land before the movie hollywood Land
came out, and it was about these interwoven stories on
in Los Angeles on Christmas Eve, uh in Christmas Day
when l A got its first freak snowstorm ever and

(01:38:53):
the movie Crash did that afterward, and I remember both
these things happened, and I was like, and you know
what I did. This is a movie that I think
I told the story in the show my uh my wife, Emily.
I'm not telling you that I'm familiar. I know, uh.
She was a producer in music videos, and she worked

(01:39:14):
on a Black Crows videos. She have Michael Bays stories too. No,
she didn't have Michael Bays stories, but she's got a
bunch of music video stories, as do I because I
was her PA. But she did a Black Crows video
that shot way out in the fucking boonis of the mountains,
like north of Los Angeles. And I was on that
and Kate Hudson was there because that's when she was
married to Chris Robinson. Fucking walked up and handed her

(01:39:39):
my script and said, there's a part in there that
I wrote for you, because she was who I had
in mind for real, So I know, man and I
and I and looking back, it's so funny that I
had the balls to do that. But I watched her
sit in her chair and open it up from a distance.
I didn't like stand there. I like just did it

(01:40:01):
and left, Yeah you gotta see, and and I like,
you know, did the peek around the corner and she
sat there and fucking read it for like ten minutes,
and uh, you know, obviously that's as far as it
ever went. But like, it's weird to think that I
handed Kate Hudson his script and she read the first

(01:40:23):
ten or fifteen pages. That's so amazing, Chuck, I would
like to get at a copy of that. I don't
even know if I have a copy of that anymore. Wow,
I know, how dumb was I handing the script off?
Not dumb? That's what you do. That's what you did

(01:40:43):
at the time. Well, you know, and that's not something
you do now. But no, you know what my motto, no,
I kind of would. I'm kind of naive like that,
or hopeful, but the my motto back then, and Emily
always thought this was really kind of sweet and maybe
right was not everyone has to love what you've written.
Just the right person has to love what you've written.

(01:41:05):
That's great, And like Kate Hudson could have loved it
and championed it and send it to her agent. And
that was always my thinking, was, like, man, if I
get the right person to like it, that's all it takes,
you know, Chuck. If you don't give her that script,
what do you have? You have regret, the god damn regret,

(01:41:27):
and and and that's that's like that's been a driving
force for a lot of my life, Like the regret
of of of not doing something as far worse than
the regret of doing something that that you wish you hadn't.
So like that, I hope you're glad to have done it.
For as hilarious as that story is. Yeah, there's no

(01:41:48):
like shame or like, oh, what a dumb dumb uh,
even though I might have just called myself a dumb
dumb like five minutes ago for doing it. But I
like young sweet Chuck who would uh? Who would pass
off the script as a p A? I like that kid. Plus,
like if you're Kate Hudson, Like that's that's a story
if you're an actor that I think is in the zeitgeist,

(01:42:10):
like and I feel like Paul Thomas Anderson is an
example of this. Like you get you get a young
creative person who is fortunate enough to be in the
right place at the right time, surrounded by the right people.
Kate Hudson has a p A on her set who
just handed her a script, Like what if? What if?

(01:42:31):
This guy is great? She's got to read it. She's
got to read it for ten minutes. You could be
you could be something special. Well, and I caught her
at the right time too, because she was just bored
on this set. There was nothing going on. What was
the song of the music video? It was Um, it
was one of it was really late. It was one
of their late Like I love those guys at first. Actually, yeah,

(01:42:54):
me too. Um. And here's another little story. I bought
my very first guitar from Rich Robert Rich Robinson. He
he worked at Clark Music on Ponts in Atlanta. And
this is before Black Crows is when he played with
They were Mr. Crow's garden and he gave me a
guitar pick and was like, hey, he should come out
and see us. We do like R. E. M. Covers
and stuff like that. I had that pick for many

(01:43:17):
many years. Uh did it? Did it get broken? What
happened at the pick? Oh? You know it's a guitar pick,
you lose. Yeah. Wow. So uh, there's a few more
things we've got to talk about. The looming rainstorm h

(01:43:37):
and the rain and then eventually the clearing and then
the frogs as a device is so effective in this movie. Yeah,
the way he plays with weather in l A especially,
and you will learn as you live there, a big
rainstorm is a big deal because it feels like a mood, right,
big time. Like when you see the rain coming down

(01:44:02):
in sheets on the windows behind our characters, you recognize
visually through that language that they're going through a thing.
You don't need to understand the dialogue to know that. Yeah,
and that thing is just as weird as uh, or
as actually as commonplaces. A rainstorm in l A, which

(01:44:22):
just doesn't happen that much if you live in Atlanta
or Seattle. Actually Seattle gets more like the misty stuff,
but Atlanta gets as big storms. And when you live
in l A, man, you'll see like you will go
a long fucking time, dude, without seeing any rain. It's
been happening a lot since I've moved here, and I

(01:44:43):
don't like it. I don't like it at all. Chuck.
It's raining there. It's gonna rain, I think this weekend.
And it's rained for like five five days straight a
week ago. So it's been a strange spring. Yeah. L
A is not a town on that rain doesn't fit there.
It just feels out of place and weird. Yeah, Randy

(01:45:07):
Newman isn't writing songs about that. Uh. We should talk
about the editing, uh for a second, because just the
weaving of the story and the pace and the and
the symphonic sort of orchestral pace of this movie is
really impressive. I mean, if you're given final cut and

(01:45:30):
you're told you can do anything, I mean, this is
a film that uses a fire transition. Oh yeah, it
uses multiple whip pan cuts, which which is very flourishy.
Like that's a that's really mastributory in a fun way. Uh,

(01:45:51):
the the rack focus into Jason Robards's lungs, and the
professor like pointing at the schematic. I I love all
this visual language. I love it so much. I think
it's part of what makes the film great. But like,
this is a guy who was given the blank check.

(01:46:13):
But also like I hesitated to use the word restraint,
but like I'm describing three scenes in a three hour film,
Like he's not cartooning up, he's not ham and cheesing
the entire run time with his visual flourishes. And I think,
and I think that's emblematic of Paul Thomas Anderson. Like

(01:46:35):
I think I think he knows better than to funk
it up with a bunch of that stuff. Yeah, But
I mean at the same time, he's he's like so
showy as a filmmaker. Um, but I just I buy it,
like it never felt like a he never felt like
a phony to me. And it's very easy to come

(01:46:57):
in there and especially back then and sort of fling
the camera all over the place and come across as
a phony that's just ripping people off. Like it just
it always worked for me, for him. I wonder it's
a if it's a matter of volume, because like we're
talking about all this stuff in the same movie that
a rain of frogs happens in, and a same movie

(01:47:20):
that the entire cast sings along to an Amy Man song. Well,
I was going to ask you about that. What do
you think about that? I love it, I wholeheartedly love it.
But I wonder if if this were a film where
only one of those things happened, if that would be
the clang. Yeah, And if it's only because of the
volume of those things that makes the rest of it

(01:47:44):
smoothed out, you know, Like, is that is that how
you do it? Maybe? So do because if there's just
the one thing, it's the jingling keys. But but in
three hours, if you're doing if you're doing your bookends,
if you're doing your your your whip pands and your
transitions and your rain of frogs and your character singing

(01:48:07):
and your character singing. It's it's just a bombardment of it.
But it's not. It doesn't never feel like you're being bombarded.
But if it's if it's a volume of these things
and it's spaced out in such a way that that
they all can coexist together, it works. I think you're right,
because maybe that's the thing, because it's a filmmaker saying, listen,

(01:48:31):
this is this kind of movie in every fucking way.
It's gonna be existential and thematic and symbolic and I'm
gonna really just fucking throw it all out there, and
I'm gonna have character singing digetic music and uh, and
it's it's going to be showy with the camera and
I'm I'm going to have these kind of obvious bookends

(01:48:53):
and tell you what the theme is, like that's what
this movie is. Like like it or hate. And there
are people that really don't like this movie too. Yeah,
And I totally recognize that this, like this is a
very divisive film to go see when you're in college.
When it's uh, it's like, at times, I feel like

(01:49:15):
it was more fraught than high school in that way,
Like I'm I'm trying to make new friends and fit in,
and I feel like, if you're a Magnolia person, you're
my kind of person, and if you're not, then you
can still be my kind of person. But I think
I think it probably takes something else. Like what what

(01:49:36):
other movies have you seen? Yeah? Yeah, like let's start
the conversation. I feel like Boogie Nights was at Scorsese
in a like here it is man like we're contemporaries. Yeah,
like like this is this is answering that call. Do
you feel like this film is at anyone specifically in

(01:49:58):
the way that that one might have been. I don't know.
I mean he's always uh, or not always, because I
think he's kind of mixed it up more since then.
But Boogie Nights and Magnolia, I think both or Scorsese
esk you might want to go to Altman a little bit. Yeah. Uh.
It's certainly reminiscent of shortcuts in Nashville and these big,

(01:50:19):
sort of sprawling, interwoven stories. But I feel like it's
Paul Thomas Anderson really putting his flag in the ground
in a big way. You know. It's amazing how only
a few films into his career, he he developed a
style that is uniquely his, and very early on he

(01:50:40):
was compared to Altman at Scorsese. But now I don't
feel like he's in those sentences at all anymore. He's
very much his own person and he has been for
so long. It's really an achievement. You know what his
next thing is? Right? No, I don't, Oh dude, he's
making a nineteen seventies high school movie set in the

(01:51:04):
San Fernando Valley. What yes, And it's I think the
lead character is like a former child actor or something
like that, or a current child doctor. I don't know.
And I know it was supposed to be shooting starting
in February, so it's probably been interrupted if it did
start in February. But when I saw that, I was like, oh, man,

(01:51:24):
he's like and I've and I've loved. I love his career,
and I loved where he's gone and how challenging and
how mature he's become as a filmmaker. But I'm like, man,
get back to the valley. I want to see another
one of those movies again. Hard degree. Yeah, wow, Yeah,
I'm just looking this at myself. That's that's going to

(01:51:45):
be great. Yeah, it's gonna be there's amazing. There's been
a couple of directors Guild uh podcast. I don't know
if you listen to that podcast at all, but where
Paul Thomas Anderson and Quentin Tarantino have done a bulicit
downs with each other about film and to hear them
chop it up is just the ultimate. It's great when

(01:52:07):
it's great, tell p t about this what we're doing.
I mean, someone's gotta gotta give him the what's up
about movie? Crush? Right, yeah, someone should give him the
what's up? All right, Well, let's finish up. Then the
very end of the film, that great final John c
Riley diary in the car and it says it goes

(01:52:32):
a little something like this, Uh, that's the tough part.
What can we forgive? That's the tough part of the job.
Tough part about walking down the street and then that
needle drop on that great final song and then you
hear you, you don't hear about you. Here he enters
that bedroom and you know they're talking, and you surmise

(01:52:54):
that he's saying like I understand, I don't care, I
want to love you. Yeah, and she gives that little
smile and that look at camera man, and it's just
fucking perfect. Actors have that special gift of like filling
up their lower eyelid like all the way, like filling

(01:53:15):
them up like they're fucking buckets before like dropping them
like it's a fucking Disney ride. And and uh, Laura
Walters is just the ultimate at this, like like she's
perfectly timed and her turn to cameras so beautiful that
and it's and it's time with the Amy man in

(01:53:36):
such a way that it's it's it's got to be
so stressful if you're a filmmaker to have written this
thing and to see it come to its conclusion and
to have an idea of a piece of music for it.
And like, if I could ask Paul Thomas Anderson anything,
I think it would be like if this film was

(01:53:57):
shot in any kind of sequence, how nervous he might
have been in stepping up to this scene knowing how
much was hanging on it. Because if you don't get
this right, I don't know if the entire film comes
together in the way that it does totally, and then
what is your plan? B I don't think there is one.

(01:54:18):
This has to work and so the song's got to
be right. He's got the song in the holster, like
all the Amy Man songs were were chambered for the
entire film. You've got the right actors. You've got to
hope your dialogue is right. But what but if even
if it's not, we're gonna we're gonna turn that down.
We're just gonna make it about her face and the music,

(01:54:40):
like like we can make that work. It's it's awesome,
and I love I love the lack of vanity of
it in that he wrote dialogue for this scene. But
it's it's turned all the way down. We're just what
We're hearing the music and we're watching the performance and
it's uh and it's someone directing an actor and it's

(01:55:01):
an actor performing as good as they can. And it's
it's the it's the ultimate. It's what movies are all about.
Is this moment? Absolutely, dude? Great movie. Yeah, thanks man,
I think we did it. You're my kind of person, Chuck,
if you like Magnolia, This is so much fun. I

(01:55:22):
can't wait. Let's like, let's do it again in the
next like within the month, because we're all around and
this is a great hang studio set up now, so anytime, totally, man.
I love you, brother, and and go listen to the
Greatest Gin, Greatest Discovery Friendly Fire. Follow you on Twitter?
Where can you be found? I'm at cuff for time
on Twitter, spending more time than is healthy there these days.

(01:55:46):
All right, well, don't do that. But this is perfect
because I literally have fifteen seconds before my recorder cuts off.
It says one hour, two hour limit. We're counting down.
There's ten seconds left, all right, and we'll just take
it all the way to the end. I'm gonna look it.
I'm gonna look into the camera about to pray. Well,
know my computer is not dying. Goodbye. Movie Crush is produced, edited,

(01:56:21):
and engineered by Ramsey unt here in our home studio
at Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.